December 26, 2023 • 48 mins
Jason Timpf is joined by Lakers beat writer Jovan Buha of The Athletic to discuss the recent starting lineup change that Darvin Ham has implemented for the Los Angeles Lakers as they are in the midst of a 4-6 stretch (4:30). LeBron James and Anthony Davis have been visibly frustrated (24:30), and it is clear that the Lakers will need to make a mid-season trade in order to be championship contenders (38:30). #volume
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(01:46):
All right, welcome to hoops tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You're at the volume.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Happy Tuesday, everybody helpe. All of you guys are having
a great start to your week. We have a very
special guest coming on today, mister Jobaan Booja, the lead
Lakers reporter for the athletic is gonna come in and
we're gonna talk about this bizarre starting lineup that the
Lakers have been used in the last couple of games.
We're also going to talk a little bit about some
roles changing within the locker room. We're both going to
(02:08):
give our personal opinion on what the starting lineup should
look like, and then we're going to talk about what
needs the Lakers have at the deadline in light of
their recent slides. So, without any further ado mister Jovann
Bouja is going to join the show. Jovan I was
reading an article from you this morning, drinking a.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Nice cup of coffee.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's kind of cathartic listening to you just eviscerate the
complete absurdity of the way this lineup was put together,
as you absolutely put in your article. Eighteen minutes so
far of this Jared Vanderbilt, cam Reddistorian, Prince Lebron James
Anthony Davis lineup, they're giving up one hundred and twenty
five points per one hundred possessions on defense, so leaning
(02:47):
into defense is not getting stops. They are scoring just
one hundred and five points per one hundred possessions and
they've been outscored by twenty points per one hundred posessions
over that span. But hey, they're rebounding really well for
whatever that's worth. So I'm curious. We've seen behind the scenes,
We've seen the references to leaning into their identity and
(03:08):
weird comments about Austin Reeves minute load, even though that
doesn't seem to apply to other players on the roster.
Have you heard anything internally in terms of it. Turmoil
is the wrong word, but is anybody like raising their
hand and going like, hey, this is not a good idea.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yes that there have been some eyebrows raised over the
past seventy two hours or so when the Lakers made
this starting lineup change I heard. I started hearing about
it Friday afternoon and talking with some people, and.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
At first I just didn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I was just like, there's no way, Like maybe they're
putting Vando in, because ever since training camp, Darvin has
basically said Vando was going to win the starting spot
over Torny and Prince. He was going to be the
fifth starter again, and that was the way.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
LA was playing on going into the season.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
But he suffers that heel injury, he misses a bunch
of time, and you know, ultimately comes off the bench.
But so I felt at some point, once he got
his legs back under him, even though really the game
before he had just said he's not one hundred percent
and still kind of figuring things out, that he would
eventually go back to the starting lineup. So that wasn't
a surprise to me. And I think with D'Angel Russell
(04:26):
essentially being on the trade block since the summer, with
the way that the Lakers structured that contract that he
eventually would either move to the bench or just get
moved in general.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So those two moves in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Didn't necessarily surprise me, but those two moves happening, you know, together,
did surprise me. Of just looking at the lineup, there
is not a second ball handler, There is not a
secondary shot creator on the perimeter, and you just can't
play that way in twenty twenty three, especially if you
(05:00):
are holding yourself to a championship level standard. And I
think you saw that in the OKC game. There were
plus one in ten minutes, basically treading water against the
OKC group that didn't have Josh Giddy, and frankly, it's
not a great matchup for OKAC. I know you've covered
that they're just too small for the Lakers. So the
Lakers were able to overwhelm them with their size and physicality.
(05:22):
But then you see it against Boston arguably the best
team in the league, certainly in my opinion, the best
five man unit in the league right now, and they
just evistrated them. It was a twelve zero run in
two and a half minutes. Lakers could not, I mean,
you freeze any possession that's inside the three point line,
and there's four Celtics minimum in the paint, if not five,
(05:44):
and they're cheating off of Lebron and Towrnian Prince. And
that's kind of another thing here, where like Lebron and
Tornian Princes have both shot the ball well, but I
don't think they still get the respect that maybe they're
shooting percentages would indicate.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So really, you had the Celtics happy to.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Ignore or all five Lakers at certain points offensively, to
say nothing of the way that they were defending Cam
and Vandos. So just looking at that lineup, it never
made sense in theory. In practice, it has been a disaster,
and I think the Lakers are gonna continue sticking with
it for now just because Darvin Ham believes in it,
(06:20):
and he said as much basically postgame. But I think
it's a mistake, and I think at some point in
the near future, within the next few games, they're most
likely going to have to go to a different starting lineup.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
To me, it's such as to me, it's a representation
of a basic lack of understanding of the way basketball
teams operate. And this is crazy to me because you
know me and Jovonne, I never ever complained about the coach.
I think that often it's just an easy target, especially
for fans when they can't really target anything else during
(06:52):
the season. And to me, like, if there's one thing
that a basketball lineup needs to do, it's to check
all these specific responsibilities right.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And it's no.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Different than like if you were to run out a
big goal line package at midfield and you had seven
offensive linemen on the field, you might be able to
better protect your quarterback, but who the hell is gonna
get open? Like who are you throwing to? You know
what I mean? And it's just a basic like you
almost are diminishing your returns, even on the defensive end
(07:27):
because a couple of things. First of all, when you
have guys that are on the ball taking heavier duty responsibilities,
the off ball jobs are easier, especially for smarter players,
and so you can get better defensive production out of
lesser defensive players in an off ball role, especially if
they're a smart, high IQ player like Austin for instance.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And then on the other end of the floor. I
know it sounds crazy, and we said, we talk about
this all the time. The idea of setting your defense,
but scoring the basketball makes getting stops easier. It just does,
even above and beyond the geometry of the floor when
they have to take the ball out of the basket.
It's also about it's a motivation and passion and just
when you're getting buckets, you want to sit better in
(08:05):
a stance and to fight harder over that screen. And
it's about believing in what your unit is capable of
doing on both ends of the floor. And like above
and beyond anything else, there was no legitimate like earning
of the rotation spot. And what I mean by that
is it's not like Cam's playing so well you have
(08:26):
to start him. It's not like Jared Vanderbilt is playing
so well you have to start him. Torny and Prince
is the one guy in that group where it's like
he's taken like eight nine threes a game and he's
making forty percent of him over the last month or whatever.
Like Torrian, at least you can make the case he's
shooting the shit out of the basketball. You gotta have
him on the floor, right, But those other two spots,
(08:49):
how is it that by default they're going to lesser players.
That's the part I don't understand, like, like Austin Reeves
has had some defensive limitations this year. There's no doubt
he hasn't been as good this year. Teams are being
more deliberate about attacking him. But beyond any shadow of
a doubt, the total two way impact of Austin has
(09:12):
far superseded anything that Cam Reddis and Jared Vanderbilt had
brought to the table. So there is legitimately no logical
case for putting this line up out there to start games.
And it's frustrating for me because I hear you say
things like what you just said a minute ago, you
were like, and I think they're going to stick with
it for the time being. Okay, can you elaborate on
(09:33):
that for me? First of all, like how long do
you mean? And also like, is he just under the
impression that this is going to start working at some point?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, I think inherently coaches you know when they make
a decision. Because the funny thing to me with this
whole thing was we had been asking about a potential
starting lineup change during the skid a couple of games prior,
and Darvin was in you're referencing. I think it was
after they lost the third consecutive game after the Bulls game,
and you know, Darvin, we referenced when the Lakers won
(10:06):
lost their three consecutive games earlier in the season. That's
when you saw Austin Reeves go to the bench and
he inserted Cam Reddish, and that was the big change
was you know, this starting lineup isn't working. We don't
believe in you know, Austin and Dilo can play together,
and we want to try Cam out there. So they
make that change. And you know, so now they're on
a three game losing streak. We ask about it and
(10:27):
he's like, well, you know, that's a big deal to
change the starting lineup at this point in the season,
and you know, it's it's not something that we, you know,
are going to do lightly. So then they lose the
fourth game in a row, and then all of a
sudden they make this starting lineup change, and I just so,
I think inherently there's a level of stubbornness that comes
with being a head coach where when you make a
(10:48):
change like that, you don't want to give up on it.
I asked last night, you know, I said, with the
way that defenses are guarding Cam and Vando right now
and just packing the paint and completely ignore them. Do
you think a Cam vandoh Wing tandem is viable, you know,
as a starting tandem And if so, how are you
(11:09):
gonna make that work? And then he basically went on
to say, it's all about pacing and they have to
attack the way that defenses are playing them and use
the space against them. But like, those guys aren't Draymond
Green as passers and decision makers, and the Lakers don't
have Steph Curry or Klay Thompson on this lineup. So
it's one thing to use the Golden State model of
we're gonna use Vando as like a dribble handoff guy
(11:32):
and like this and that. But like if you saw
the way that Boston offended them in those actually like
they tried some of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
They've been playing more for out.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
They've been having Vando more in the dunker spot, and
that's another thing, like they've started to abandon their five
out principles because of this starting lineup change trying to
make it work.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And then on the other end, I.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Thought Anthony Davis had a comment that kind of went
under the radar where he was like we've been He
didn't say we've been a drop in hedge team, but
basically like, we have not been a switch team. Now
we are switching a lot, and we're batching a lot
of the communication and a lot of the coverages, and
I think you've seen that where there's been miscommunication and
transition defense. They were cross matched with Boston because Christaps
(12:11):
Porzingis was on Jared Vanderbilt, so that kind of messed
up some of the matchups, and you saw in transition
they didn't know who their man was, and then within
the half court sets there was miscommunication on you know,
when are we switching these off ball actions, who's sticking
with the cutter, etc. So I think right now that
they're kind of in a period of still trying to
figure some of that stuff out.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
But to me, it just it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Again in theory, it has not made sense in practice,
and I think they should pull the plug now. And look,
they're gonna play Charlotte on Thursday. Team, they're gonna look great,
They're gonna win that game, and Darvin's gonna be able
to point to that. But you've got to measure yourself
against the Minnesota's the Oklahoma Cities and the Bostons, and
I just don't think that type of lineup is viable
(12:55):
against that calbur of opponent.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, the Oklahoma City game was very much the Lakers
just dominated the possession battle. That was a big part
of how they did well in that game, and they
were just so much bigger at every single position. I
agree with you that stubbornness is the primary driver, because
it felt like it felt like the obvious change to
make was just swap d Lo and Austin in the
starting lineup, and if you wanted to get Jared Vanderbilt
(13:18):
in there, you get him in there for Cam. But
it almost felt like if Darvin put Austin in the
starting lineup, he would be basically publicly admitting he made
a mistake by benching him to begin with. And that,
to me is stupid because that's cutting off your nose
despite your face. You're not proving anybody right, You're just
you're blatantly shining a light on yourself that you are
being stubborn. In fact, I've always found it more admirable
(13:40):
when people are willing to admit when they've made mistakes,
and situations like that Austin, by the way, going into
the game where he got not like where he should
have been put back in the starting lineup, but they
went with Jared instead. He had like, over an eight
game span, been averaging twenty five and six on sixty
five percent trait, like literally playing his best stretch of
basketball the season, including just being an absolute monster in
(14:02):
these in season tournament games. So it was like the
most obvious decision that you could possibly imagine for a
situation like that.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Now I want to dive more.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Into this concept of switching versus being a drop in
hedge team, but I want to look at it through
the context of lineup constructions. So we're going to come
back to that in a minute. What I want to
start with is one of my biggest pet peeves is
when people are just like, hey, that's stupid, but then
they don't provide a counter solution. So what we're gonna
do today is we're going to have a little exercise
where we talk about what the Lakers starting lineup should
(14:34):
look like, the pros and cons of constructing them in
different ways, and talking about what schemes would have to
be used to work with those groups. So I want
you to go first. If you were the head coach
of the Los Angeles Lakers tonight or tomorrow night, I
should say, who would you put out as you're starting
five against the Charlotte Hornets.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So I would start, of course Lebron and eighty at
the four and the five. I would go with Austin
at the one, Torrian at the two, and Cam at
the three. I think, to me, the pivot point in
that lineup comes down to Cam versus vand Do. I
think you can make a case for either one of
those guys. Vando obviously bigger, better rebounder. Cam is shooting
(15:12):
the ball slightly better thirty percent overall, but twenty five
percent in the month of December, but at least he's
taking and making some van Do is zero for ten
on the season.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
So like that that that's a problem to me. So
I would go with those three.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I think Torrian, I mean one, he's third on the
team in minutes, So like any lineup that is you're
pitching a starting lineup that doesn't have Torrian is just unrealistic.
At this point, he's gonna He's a starting lock at
this point and a closing lock. Frankly, so I think
Torrion shooting forty percent for the last month or so.
As you said on threes, I think he's a competent defender,
(15:49):
not necessarily a lockdown wing the way that Darvin uses
him at times, but I think, as like your secondary
perimeter guy, that's fine. Then I look at that Van
doh Cam spot as the point of attack, going to
defend the best one through three.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Guy and then Austin.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think if Austin's your worst defender and you're kind
of hiding him on the secondary ball handler or the
secondary guard, I think that's totally fine, and you see
the Lakers close more often than not with that alignment.
So to me, I mean this is pretty clearly the
best lineup construct of you know, Austin's your third best player,
don't overthink it, start him, play him more than twenty
(16:28):
eight minutes a night. Torrian's out there as a floor spacer,
and then you have the Cam Vandos spot, which honestly
to me could even rotate depending on matchup. But if
you want to go with one, I think Cam has
in the aggregate.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Played slightly better.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
He is the better shooter, and you just you got
to tell him don't put the ball on the floor
because that's kind of been an issue lately, is him
doing too much offensively. But that to me is just,
you know, pretty plainly the best potential starting five when
factoring in roles.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
And the way that guys have been play lately. So
that's the group I would go with.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So I have two lineups that I consider, and one
of them is basically a switching lineup, and one of
them is more of like a hedge and drop lineup.
And the hedge and drop lineup is basically the same
lineup you put together. Again, don't overthink it. Austin's your
best player or best non lebron A D player, so
you go Austin lebron A D. Torrian's the one guy
(17:24):
out of all these wings that is doing one thing
at a super high level, which is shooting, so you
put him in that group. To me, it's it's Cam
is the better option right now. But the reason why
I start Jared is I do think eventually he's going
to get his legs underneath him and start defending like
he did towards the tail end of last year. So
I think inevitably in the long run, because Cam again
(17:45):
there have been these brief stretches where it's like, okay,
a two or three game stretch here where he only
takes corner threes and he's focused on the defensive end
and he's deeply impactful. But it's been a lot of
random bs around that, which has kind of limited some
of his effectiveness. And again, like it's not. One of
the things I appreciate about Jared Vanderbilt is he knows
he can't shoot, so you won't see him take a
(18:07):
pull up transition above the break three where you're like, dude, okay,
we can get a better shot than that. Like he's
gonna go get the ball to somebody that can make
a decision with it. So I would go Austin Vando,
Torrian lebron Ad in like a hedge and drop system
where we're trying to keep ad close to the rim.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
This is the other lineup that i'd pitch.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And the basic concept here is you're putting your five
best players on the floor, okay, and it'd be Austin
Torrean Ruey lebron Ad. This would be a switch group. Now,
to Anthony Davis's point, switching has ups and downs. The
upsides are stagnate's an offense, you get in front of actions,
(18:47):
you shut down a ball screen game. There's a bunch
of things you can do with switching to stagnate an opponent.
Downsides there can be confusion in switches, and when you
botch a switch, people get wide open. That's a big problem.
Can be fixed, the repetition communication, just building really good habits.
That's that's something where part of part of the risk
of changing your defensive set up in the middle of
(19:08):
the season is you can go through a stretch where
you look like shit doing it because you guys don't
have your habits down right. But then the other side
of it is like, Okay, we can give up rebounding
mismatches or we can give up post up mismatches. There
are downsides physically to switching, but you're huge in that group,
Like you're unbelievably big. You're Corey and Prince at six '
(19:29):
eight at the two, Ruyachimur at six ' nine at
the three and whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
He is two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Pounds, Lebron James six nine sixty two seventy at the four,
and Anthony Davis one of the biggest athletes in the
league at the five, and so you have the ability
to basically shrink the floor when teams try to attack
matchups in terms of digging down and rotating in help.
And you're huge on the glass. And so one of
the reasons why I like that that that potential group
(19:55):
is like you are trying to float things until you
get to a point where you could recon figure the roster.
And we're gonna talk about that in a minute, and
that could fundamentally change the entire direction that this team goes,
and you might have to kind of do what you
did last year where you're basically a new team post
deadline anyway, but you gotta get to that point, and
in the Western Conference, you got to try to eat
up as many wins as possible. I think finding as
(20:16):
many opportunities as possible to have your best players together
can go a long way towards helping you there. D'Angel
Russell is arguably your fifth best player, but with Torrean
shooting as well as he has and with the built
of build of that lineup, let's just call him your
fifth best player there. And then again, you eat some
of the lumps of not of being as sharp with
your switches and hope that it hopes that over time
(20:38):
you can kind of figure some of that stuff out.
But like, again to Anthony Davis's point, like there's there's
you gotta find what it is that you want to
be and lean into it. If you're gonna be a
switching team, then build lineups accordingly and lean into it.
If you're gonna be a hedge and drop team, then
build lineups accordingly and lean into it. But this idea
where it's like, Okay, hey, we're gonna we're gonna run
(21:02):
Cam and Torrian and and and Jared Vanderbilt, and we're
gonna be this athletic team. But we're just like putting
together all these other weird groups where Austin, We're like, okay,
here comes Ruey and Dill and they're just gonna come
down the floor and shoot every time. Because so we're
fundamentally changing the team. It's been it's been such a
bizarre experience watching in the last couple of days because
(21:23):
all we're seeing is these really redundant groups that just
have a bunch of the same type of talent on
the floor and they're really really struggling and there's no
doubt that they're underachieving.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Part of the issue here is you're.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Talking about, Okay, well maybe it should be Cam, maybe
it should be Jared. I'm talking about like, well, maybe
it should be RUI, maybe it should be.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
You know, Jared.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
We're talking about all these different configurations, and the issue
there is none of these guys are are really what
they need. As good as Ruey is, as good as
Cam is, as good as Jared is, as good as
Torrian is, they all have a fundamental downside. Torrian, as
good as he's shooting, is just not good enough to
be a primary point of attack defender. He's just not
Jared Vanderbilt is good enough to do that, but he's
(22:07):
such a huge offensive limitation saying I Cam, I would
argue he's not good enough to do either, right, And
then Ruey hatche Mura basically has to be in a
switching scheme because he can't navigate screens, and so that
begs the question, like if this is all going in
towards a direction where you need to consolidate these guys
(22:28):
and you need to turn them into a specific type
of player that works to me. Until Darvin basically accepts
that Austin is the one, and that you need to
upgrade these two and three. It's hard to even get
to that point where we're moving in the right direction.
So I guess this would be my question. Have you
heard anything internally that has that leads you to believe
(22:52):
that there's frustrating frustration building simply from the standpoint that
they can't build functional lineups.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, I think even if you look at players comments postgame,
there's been and some of that stuff is natural during
a losing streak, So I don't want to like overplay that,
but you've seen several guys kind of be like, I
don't know my role essentially, or you know, like I
think Rui has been one of the most vocal in
that sense of just like some nights Rui's playing sixteen
(23:21):
minutes a night, some nights Ruey's playing thirty minutes a night.
And it's really been just kind of this up and
down thing with so many guys, and like, I.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Mean, look at Delo.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Delo, you know, plays thirty eight minutes against the Timberwolves,
starts that game two for twelve. Don't really understand why
he's playing so much in that game, especially when Austin
has it going and then he gets benched and plays
eighteen minutes in each of the next couple of games.
So right now, the Lakers kind of continue to use
(23:52):
the injury bug as an excuse in my opinion of
you know, we're not Like Lebron was asked last night
about how you compare against Boston, OKC, Minnesota. You guys
just went one to two against those three teams, and
he referenced the team's injuries. But last night, Gabe Vincent
was the only guy that was out, and I know
Cam had a groin issue. Lebron obviously had that collision
(24:15):
with Jalen Brown late in the second quarter. But the
Lakers have been pretty healthy relatively over the last couple weeks,
and we've still seen them struggle to beat a San
Antonio team without Ad and just some of these losses,
you know, losing to Chicago basically fully healthy, that was
the game gave Vincent return. So, like, I think that
(24:38):
excuse only holds water for so long, and at some
point it's got to be like, we have to figure
this out in terms of our rotations and our lineups.
And I think another thing that's kind of gone under
discussed with everything right now is like the Lakers wanted
to have continuity. That was the theme of the offseason.
They said it in every press conference. It was the
(24:59):
main reason why they brought the band back together. And
that continuity has basically gone out the window. Where you
won with a Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves, D'Angelo Russell starting
perimeter group that has barely played together this season, and
part of that, of course is Jared Vanderbilt's injury.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
But you know, originally it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Was, well, Austin and Dilo can't play together, so let's
bring Austin off the bench. Now it's well, they're playing
well together, so let's bring them off the bench together,
and you know, have their broad the second unit, and
it's just it's kind of mixed messaging. So I think,
you know, certainly there's some frustration internally in terms of,
you know, can we just stick with a lineup and
(25:40):
a rotation for X amount of games, see what's working
and what's not, and stop vacillating game to game the
way that it has. And part of that, again is
injuries and that they have had some bad luck, and
that there have been reasons why certain lineups haven't been
able to play as much as the Lakers would like.
But part of that's just been, you know, certain guys
(26:00):
struggle and they get benched, and certain guys struggle and
they continue to play. And I think we've kind of
seen that, like Torrian and Cam have very long leashes
in terms of you know, like Torrian had that stretch
where like eleven games he was shooting twenty eight percent
on threes and he continued to play thirty plus minutes
a night consistently. Cam has had some rough stretches, particularly shooting,
(26:21):
and he's continued to play, whereas guys like Austin Dilo Rui,
like those guys are fluctuating more so, I think that
you know, you mentioned the consolidation with Delo and Rui.
I think that's a you the likely solution here. But
it has been kind of wild that night tonight. It's
really you don't know what you're getting in terms of
lineups and rotation, and like, part of that again is injuries,
(26:44):
but part of that is just you got to stick
to something, and it shouldn't be this current scarring lineup.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Well, and again like leaning into Cam and Torrian as
much as they have has diminished any sort of continuity,
like you're, You're, You're mentioned, because those those guys are
eating up the majority of the of the wing minutes.
And again, like like I like a long leash for
especially a skill player guys like Austin, guys like d Lo,
guys like Rui, because you want them to always be
(27:14):
in rhythm, and so you disrupt rhythm by constantly taking
them out of games. There's no real upside to giving
super long leashes to Torrian or Cam because Torrian is
basically a high volume catch and shoot guy and more
or less he's just shooting, catching and shoot threes. He's
not a guy that's actually breaking the defense down, and Cam, like,
I'm not even sure you can point to a single
thing that he does well offensively. So like like maybe
(27:38):
putting the ball on the floor for a six eight guy,
he's got a little bit more pot there than some
guys based on his pedigree, but like, there's just not
a lot that you're getting there in terms of upside.
And so again, like I agree with you that the
fluctuations are occurring in the wrong spot on the roster.
As far as Lebron and the excuses with injury. One
hundred percent agree as well, because the way I look
at it's like you're not beating the Celtics as cur
(28:00):
constructed when Lebron plays like shit under any circumstances. Okay,
you played really well against the Thunder, and again, they're
a bad matchup and they've struggled with big teams most
of the year. The Minnesota game schedule, loss tail end
of it, back to back, just just a rough game, right,
But there's a lot of games in there that they
had no business losing. You know, even if I give
you the Chicago one, because Chicago has been playing some
(28:22):
good basketball lately, it's like you lost to a Dallas
Mavericks team that was decimated by injuries, and I watched
you guys not play hard to start the game. You
turned it on in the third quarter, like I watched
you guys lose to San Antonio Spurs, san Antonio's first
team that literally hadn't beat anybody in like a month
and hasn't beat anybody since.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's that's there's no there's no oh, like Jared Vanderbilt's
foot's bothering him. So we lost to the Spurs. You know,
like there's that to me is not something that I
that I buy into. Some of this is like when
you are trying to float until there's a point in
the future where you reorder. Yet some things on the
roster you can't afford to lose those games. And one
(29:05):
of the things that they did well at the beginning
of the year is they lost to the good teams,
but they took care of business against those teams, and
that hasn't been the case as of late, and I
think it's it's done a disservice to them. But let's
talk about this deadline for a minute here, because we've
seen d Angela Russell's role change. He's only taking ten
shots a game over his last nine and forty percent
(29:26):
from the field, below thirty percent from three. He's weirdly
important now because of Gabe Vincent's injury as essentially the
backup point guard, although Austin's kind of in that spot too,
which is which again leads you to wonder why the
hell the rotation is constructed the way it is. But
I saw a star trade get suggested today. That was
the first one that I've actually liked for the Lakers.
(29:50):
I have not liked any mention of DeMar Derozen or
zach Lavine or any of these other names that have
been thrown out there. But I'm Trannie reported today that
we should keep an eye out for de Jonte Murray
to be on the Lakers radar. Now, I I want
you actually to go first here. Do you do you
(30:13):
actually view that as realistic? Because I'm wondering why in
the heck the Hawks would want one first and Ruey Hatcha,
Mura and d Lo as a package there? Do you
view it as realistic?
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And two?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
If so, do you think it's a direction that would
help alleviate some of the Lakers issues Right now?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I view it as realistic insofar as I think the
Atlanta situation clearly isn't working and they likely have to
split that up. I feel like Dejonte is more of
the fall guy in this scenario, and I think the
Lakers would have interest in him, and do you have
(30:51):
interest in him? And there's also the clutch connection, so
you can't you know, I guess you.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Know overlook that.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
But to your point, like, the Lakers don't have a
lot to give up, and I think when front offices
admit a mistake, we were talking about it with coaches,
but with front offices to admit a mistake.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I mean, when did they trade for him? But I
don't even remember how.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Three years ago.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think it was two years ago, a couple of
years ago, so it hasn't been that long. And you know,
for them to admit a mistake, and given all that
they gave up to get him, to get a just
one first round pick back and you're not going to
get Austin Reeves. So I think Austin would you have
to be like a bona fide high level All star
(31:40):
for the Lakers to include Austin Reeves in a deal.
So if you're looking at something like Delo Rui, one
of the younger guys, you know, be at Max or
Jalen and throw in a pick. Lakers have upwards of
four pick swaps they could throw in, So maybe you're
throwing a pick swapper too, just to appease Atlanta and
get is done. Like is you know, is there a
(32:03):
better package out there? And I think there probably is
for de Jonte Murray. I look at a team like
Philly and what you know they could potentially offer in Philly,
and the Lakers are kind of in the same boat
in looking for the same types of players, be it
an Alex Caruso or whatnot, or you know, more three
and D wings. So like a team like Philly can
come in and probably offer a better package and a
(32:25):
more aggressive package, as we know Threw Moorey likes to do,
so I do look at it would probably have to
be a situation where just the market is dry for
Dejonte and you know he wants to be in LA
and you got the clutch situation, and the Lakers and Hawks,
you know, figure out and again probably some pick swaps
in there just to appease them. But that's where I
just the actual package itself I kind of struggle with.
(32:47):
I don't know if you expand it to a three
team deal. Feels like a lot of these potential trades
for the Lakers probably have to be a three team
deal where Delo gets rerouted to a third team. That's
you know, kind of an O case Utah situation where
they're just trying to absorb a contract and you know,
get another asset out of it. Maybe that's where one
of the younger guys goes as well. But that's where
(33:10):
I hesitate to say it's realistic in terms of like
actually looking at the package, but I think the Lakers
Dejonte checks the box of you could imagine him in
that starting lineup with his size and athleticism defensively and
just what he's capable of. I think he could fit
the type of defensive guard the Lakers could use. And
then again, the clutch situation, I think kind of speaks
(33:32):
for itself, So I think that there's some smoke there
for sure. I just I struggle seeing Atlanta pulling the
trigger and that ultimately being the best available package for him.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, it's it's funny because I'm super skeptical as well
as to the realistic nature of this type of deal.
But it again, as I said earlier, it's the first
one I really like. And the main reason why is
because it's a star. A star, but a star that
kind of compliments the specific issues that the Lakers are having.
(34:03):
We talked about the pros and cons of switching versus
dropping earlier, and I am a big believer that ideally,
if you have the personnel for it, I'd prefer to drop.
And the main reason why is to me, Anthony Davis
at the RIM is the is the best version of
this Laker defense, and throughout the history of this team,
(34:25):
the best versions of them have basically been teams that
allow Anthony Davis to defend and pick and roll, and
then the Lakers will switch at the end of games,
They'll switch Anthony Davis in pick and roll onto the
opposing star to get a couple of key stops at
the end. That to me is the is the direction
this team should should go in order to reach their
(34:46):
own personal ceiling. But in order to do so, they
need a legitimate point of attack guard that can navigate
over the top of screens and apply back pressure. I
viewed de Jontey Murray as that type of guy. I
think he's I think for starters, he came up with
a defen pedigree and.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Two.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
The dude was a huge Lebron fan early on and
would probably be willing to take on a role like
that in hopes of potentially achieving a longer championship run
with Lebron James and Anthony Davis. I think he compliments
Austin Reeves really well in the backcourt. Dejonte was a
really bad off ball player last year, having a much
much better off ball season this year. Fueled in large
(35:25):
part by just him shooting the ball better and catch
and shoot situations and being more aggressive in catch and
shoot situations. This was a guy who looked to drive
close outs a lot in the past. Now he's taking
a lot of those jumpers when he gets them. So
I think it's like a would be an absolute slam
dunk as far as star trades go. That said, I
still come back to the same three things. Ideally, you
want an upgrade at the three, an upgrade at the two,
(35:47):
and an upgrade.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
At the center position.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And so I still think the most realistic and best
case scenario for the Lakers is some sort of deal
with Chicago where they get Caruso and someone like Andre Drummond,
and maybe that that's the deal that probably requires draft compensation.
And then I look at a team like Brooklyn and
(36:13):
that's the team I'd be calling with RUI Because the
other important part of this, too is what does Ruy
do for Atlanta? They have the same player basically in
DeAndre Hunter. DeAndre Hunter is very very similar to Ruy Hatchimura,
pull up mid range jump shooter guy, kind of an
on an Island score that seems to kind of struggle
in the flow of offense, and so I again to
(36:35):
your point, they'd need a third team to even facilitate
a deal like that. But Brooklyn has like three big
lanky wings that are kind of like more like twos
and threes. And then Ben Simmons is therefore and he's
been injured basically right, so they don't have a big,
strong forward. They don't have like an actual Ruey Hachimura archetype,
(36:57):
but they have a guy like Dorian Finney Smith to
go alongside Cam Johnson, to go alongside Mikhale Bridges. I'd
be looking to potentially make a swap like that where
you're getting a guy like Dorian Finney Smith, which is
basically Torrian Prince with better perimeter defense, and that ends
up being an upgrade at that position. If they did
something like that, now we're talking about a lineup that
(37:18):
could throw out Austin at the one, Alex Cruso at
the two, a guy like Dorian Finney Smith at the three,
Lebron and ad all of those position positions make perfect sense.
It cleans up some of the rotation stuff, and then
you'd have a playoff, playable center in someone like Andre
Drummond coming off of the bench, which I think we've
seen a lot from Christian Wood and Jackson Hayes has
(37:38):
left a lot to be desired in recent weeks. So
I still lean like instead of targeting that bigger type
of target, little trades for upgrades at starting caliber positions.
You have two starting caliber players in D'Angelo Russell and
Ruy Hachamura that don't start for you because you already
have guys in their positions. You have to find a
(37:59):
way to turn that into starters that slot into those positions.
Do you agree with me or do you think that
they should go big fish hunting?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think it depends on the big fish. I think
the Jontey Murray is, as you were implying, going in
the right direction in comparison with the zach Lavine or
even DeMar DeRozan. I think I would prefer de Rosan
over Levine if I'm the Lakers, and I know they
feel the same way. But even there, you know, with
(38:28):
his lack of three point shooting and his defense is passable,
you know, depending on who he's guarding. But like, I
still think there's a bit of a fit issue there.
Both starting and closing games, whereas with the Jonte, I
think he would slot in properly. You could close games
with him in Austin, you could start games with him
in Austin. Though I don't know if they would go
(38:49):
in that direction, but I think it just makes more sense.
But I'm with you, and I know that this is
something that they've been weighing, and really it's been one
of the big questions for the Lakers as an organization
over the last few years has been do we chase
the third star or do we go for the role
player upgrades? And I think we saw with the Russell
(39:11):
Westbrook situation that they chased the third star did not work. Now, granted,
outside of Ben Simmons, that might have been the worst
third star to pair with Lebron n Ad in terms
of fit, it probably was the worst. But you know, so,
I don't know if that's like the best example of
what a third star could look like next to Lebron
(39:31):
and Ad. Like I think when they were going after
Damian Lillard briefly, like that would have been a perfect
fit in my opinion. You know, you could have Ad
covering for him defensively and with his shooting and picking
roll ability, alleviating a lot of that burden off of Lebron,
And of course, you know he's been a top ten
twelve player over the last few years, so I mean
that's the high level upgrade, of course, But like I think,
(39:52):
there's degrees here where just just blatantly, you know, saying
that a third star won't work or won't fit, I
think is a mistake. But they don't really have the
assets to get the type of third star that would
fit perfectly next to Lebron and ad In my opinion,
it would really have to be a terrible contract or
(40:13):
you know, a situation where you know they can get
a third team involved and maybe that can help facilitate it.
But I just don't see it the Lakers, being straight up,
you're being able to find that type of third star
that really takes them to the level of a Denver
or a Boston.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So to me, it is a smaller upgrade.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I'm with you. I think three and D wing has
been the biggest issue for this team really since the championship.
You know, they haven't been able to replace I mean,
they still had KCP and KU's that second year, but
injuries and whatnot but like they haven't been able to
replace that, you know, since the Russ trade with you know,
kcp Cou's Danny Green. Even Alex Caruso is more of
(40:50):
a three and D guard, Like, they just haven't had
those types of guys consistently, so, you know, it's always
been one flawed like Jared Vanderbilt, really good perimeter defender,
but can't shoot, and teams just play him off the
floor in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
So I think finding at least one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
If not a couple, if possible, Like you know, maybe
you can't get Caruso and you go for Royce O'Neil
and Dory Finney Smith, and you know, Royce O'Neil obviously
isn't the caliber of player that Alex Cruso is, but
to me, it would still be an overall upgrade to
the rotation if you could bring both of those guys in.
Those are two guys the Lakers have had interest in
dating back to last offseason and even last trade deadlines.
(41:28):
So I know that those are two guys that they
would have interest in bringing in. So I think, you know,
we're on the same page here in terms of if
you can find the perfect third star somehow and make
that work and make a miracle, you know, pull it off. Like, sure,
go for that, but realistically, I think it's gonna have
to be a marginal upgrade in terms of the starting
and closing lineup. But that's still very important for this
(41:50):
group is obviously they have yet to figure out what's
our best five man lineup and we're over thirty games
into the season.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
That that's the key there is, like you have to
find a way to make Darvin's job easier because he's struggling.
He's struggling. I mean, like I said this, yes the
other day, and I truly believe it. Like, in all
my time watching basketball, I can't ever remember a lineup
decision that confused me as much as this starting lineup move.
(42:19):
And it's not born out of, you know, foolishness from Darvin.
It's born out of desperation. He's straight up trying to
find something that works. Now, I think he's grabbing at
the wrong stuff personally, but I do think that this
is born out of desperation, out of situation, and like,
at the end of the day, you have to you
can no longer have it. You put it like this,
(42:41):
in your tweet the night that they announced the starting lineup,
and it really was this simple. The three three of
the top five highest players, the highest played role players
outside of Lebron James and Anthony Davis all came off
the bench. That's just a misallocation of resources, plain and simple.
You're you're making your job harder and so finding ways
(43:02):
to to uh to make it so that it's pretty
straightforward that your five best players are on the floor
to start and finish games. Is the Bill Simmons, you know,
always said this when I was growing up listening to him,
and I thought it was smart. It's just like, who's
your five, who's your five? Like who's the five you're
going down with? And the Lakers don't know, and that's
(43:23):
the problem. And they have a problem here because even
number three isn't viewed as number three by the head.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Coach, So so.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It becomes an issue there now. I actually, again, you
have to you have to add realistic expectations here. I
agree with you, like Philly's gonna be aggressive, Miami's going
to be aggressive. I wouldn't be surprised if we see
teams like Oklahoma City, Indiana and Sacramento get aggressive more
for a front court player, so like a Golden State's
(43:52):
gonna be aggressive there. I think this is going to
be an extremely active deadline, and I do think the
Lakers are gonna get outbid by some of the bigger
targets out there, or for some of the bigger targets,
and so I think it is going to be important
to try to find, you know, guys that are where
you're getting more out of the sum.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Of the parts, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
And honestly, Royce O'Neil is an interesting kind of fallback
option for like a two guard. One of the things
I like about Royce is he's not afraid to shoot
the basketball like that. That is something that I think
could go well with that group. And he is comfortable
a little bit behind the three point line as well.
I think I think you're you're hitting at all the
right stuff there. I think like realistic targets, upgrades at
(44:31):
the role players, those are the directions to go. I've
seen a lot of people talking about Austin's defense. I
can think of a lot of ways the Lakers could
lose on their way to a title this year, and
none of them involve Austin becoming an issue.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
They just don't for me.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Like I obviously there are there are moments where he
can get exploited for his lack of size, but having
one guy on the floor like that is a problem
every single team has. I watched Denver literally get relentlessly
attacked in the post by Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan Minga
on Jamal Murray. You know, I've seen a team's do
(45:05):
it to Boston's guards. I've seen teams do it to
Dame into Malik Beasley. That's that, to me, is just
a fundamental part of a good basketball team is you
got to have a point guard on the floor and
he's probably going to be smaller, and he's probably gonna
be a guy that can be attacked. That to me
is something you have to learn to work around instead
of just bailing on entirely. And so to me, it's
about the two and the three. All right, before we
(45:26):
get out of here, is there anything that you wanted
to plug? I know you've been working really hard over
the holiday.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
My story today about the starting lineup, and I think
the headline literally was, you know, it doesn't make any sense,
And I mean I go into some of the reasons,
you know, look at some of the early possessions of
just the way they're defending the Lakers, and why it's
a mistake to continue using this lineup, the trickle down
(45:56):
effect that I think you were talking about offense leading
to defense. Like the other thing here is if you're
not scoring, you're giving up you know, transition baskets, and
that's what I think. There was a play early in
the game. Ham runs a pick and roll because the
Lakers need another ball handler out there. He's running pick
and roll, he turns the ball over in the Celtics
score and transition. It's like, if you have Cam as
(46:17):
that fourth or fifth ball handler in the lineup, you're
not really running into that. But when you put him
as arguably the second ball handler in the lineup, now
that's where you have some of these issues. So to me,
you know, Lakers clearly have to go in a different
direction with that lineup in the way that it affects
the rest of the rotation.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
But that would be the main thing.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
I'll have some stuff coming up, you know, for the
new year in terms of state of the Lakers and
sort of where things are at. But for now, just
enjoy a breakdown of why their new starting lineup doesn't
make sense.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
One of the things I appreciated was that in that
second half, I don't know if you noticed, but they
just started posting up Lebron and eighty every single possession,
And like that, to me is the at least the
right counter to that none of our other guys.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Can dribble situation, which is which is something to look at.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
But like I, Yovan and I have joked about this
off the air, but like, in a weird way, this
has been kind of like the perfect Lakers season because
obviously everybody outside of the Laker fan base just thinks
they suck, and I tend to think that's wrong. I
think this is I think the Lakers are the team
that have the largest gap between their night to night
effort and what they're capable of, which is going to
lead to some mixed results in the regular season that
(47:29):
are gonna make them look lesser than they are. But
it's kind of perfect because they're, in my opinion, one
of the short list of teams that genuinely has a
chance to win the title if they hit, if they
hit at the deadline. But tons of drama, tons of
shitty basketball for us to complain about over the course
of the eighty two Yovan did an amazing job. In
his article today broke down a bunch of specific video
(47:51):
examples of the way that the floor is shrunk on
the Laker starters, with the way that lineup was constructed.
I highly encourage you guys to check it out. As always,
we shit you guys for supporting the show. We'll have
a show tomorrow coming out with power rankings as well
as some game breakdowns.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I will see you guys.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Then the volume
The volume.
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(01:46):
All right, welcome to hoops tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You're at the volume.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Happy Tuesday, everybody helpe. All of you guys are having
a great start to your week. We have a very
special guest coming on today, mister Jobaan Booja, the lead
Lakers reporter for the athletic is gonna come in and
we're gonna talk about this bizarre starting lineup that the
Lakers have been used in the last couple of games.
We're also going to talk a little bit about some
roles changing within the locker room. We're both going to
(02:08):
give our personal opinion on what the starting lineup should
look like, and then we're going to talk about what
needs the Lakers have at the deadline in light of
their recent slides. So, without any further ado mister Jovann
Bouja is going to join the show. Jovan I was
reading an article from you this morning, drinking a.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Nice cup of coffee.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's kind of cathartic listening to you just eviscerate the
complete absurdity of the way this lineup was put together,
as you absolutely put in your article. Eighteen minutes so
far of this Jared Vanderbilt, cam Reddistorian, Prince Lebron James
Anthony Davis lineup, they're giving up one hundred and twenty
five points per one hundred possessions on defense, so leaning
(02:47):
into defense is not getting stops. They are scoring just
one hundred and five points per one hundred possessions and
they've been outscored by twenty points per one hundred posessions
over that span. But hey, they're rebounding really well for
whatever that's worth. So I'm curious. We've seen behind the scenes,
We've seen the references to leaning into their identity and
(03:08):
weird comments about Austin Reeves minute load, even though that
doesn't seem to apply to other players on the roster.
Have you heard anything internally in terms of it. Turmoil
is the wrong word, but is anybody like raising their
hand and going like, hey, this is not a good idea.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yes that there have been some eyebrows raised over the
past seventy two hours or so when the Lakers made
this starting lineup change I heard. I started hearing about
it Friday afternoon and talking with some people, and.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
At first I just didn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I was just like, there's no way, Like maybe they're
putting Vando in, because ever since training camp, Darvin has
basically said Vando was going to win the starting spot
over Torny and Prince. He was going to be the
fifth starter again, and that was the way.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
LA was playing on going into the season.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
But he suffers that heel injury, he misses a bunch
of time, and you know, ultimately comes off the bench.
But so I felt at some point, once he got
his legs back under him, even though really the game
before he had just said he's not one hundred percent
and still kind of figuring things out, that he would
eventually go back to the starting lineup. So that wasn't
a surprise to me. And I think with D'Angel Russell
(04:26):
essentially being on the trade block since the summer, with
the way that the Lakers structured that contract that he
eventually would either move to the bench or just get
moved in general.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So those two moves in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Didn't necessarily surprise me, but those two moves happening, you know, together,
did surprise me. Of just looking at the lineup, there
is not a second ball handler, There is not a
secondary shot creator on the perimeter, and you just can't
play that way in twenty twenty three, especially if you
(05:00):
are holding yourself to a championship level standard. And I
think you saw that in the OKC game. There were
plus one in ten minutes, basically treading water against the
OKC group that didn't have Josh Giddy, and frankly, it's
not a great matchup for OKAC. I know you've covered
that they're just too small for the Lakers. So the
Lakers were able to overwhelm them with their size and physicality.
(05:22):
But then you see it against Boston arguably the best
team in the league, certainly in my opinion, the best
five man unit in the league right now, and they
just evistrated them. It was a twelve zero run in
two and a half minutes. Lakers could not, I mean,
you freeze any possession that's inside the three point line,
and there's four Celtics minimum in the paint, if not five,
(05:44):
and they're cheating off of Lebron and Towrnian Prince. And
that's kind of another thing here, where like Lebron and
Tornian Princes have both shot the ball well, but I
don't think they still get the respect that maybe they're
shooting percentages would indicate.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So really, you had the Celtics happy to.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Ignore or all five Lakers at certain points offensively, to
say nothing of the way that they were defending Cam
and Vandos. So just looking at that lineup, it never
made sense in theory. In practice, it has been a disaster,
and I think the Lakers are gonna continue sticking with
it for now just because Darvin Ham believes in it,
(06:20):
and he said as much basically postgame. But I think
it's a mistake, and I think at some point in
the near future, within the next few games, they're most
likely going to have to go to a different starting lineup.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
To me, it's such as to me, it's a representation
of a basic lack of understanding of the way basketball
teams operate. And this is crazy to me because you
know me and Jovonne, I never ever complained about the coach.
I think that often it's just an easy target, especially
for fans when they can't really target anything else during
(06:52):
the season. And to me, like, if there's one thing
that a basketball lineup needs to do, it's to check
all these specific responsibilities right.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And it's no.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Different than like if you were to run out a
big goal line package at midfield and you had seven
offensive linemen on the field, you might be able to
better protect your quarterback, but who the hell is gonna
get open? Like who are you throwing to? You know
what I mean? And it's just a basic like you
almost are diminishing your returns, even on the defensive end
(07:27):
because a couple of things. First of all, when you
have guys that are on the ball taking heavier duty responsibilities,
the off ball jobs are easier, especially for smarter players,
and so you can get better defensive production out of
lesser defensive players in an off ball role, especially if
they're a smart, high IQ player like Austin for instance.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And then on the other end of the floor. I
know it sounds crazy, and we said, we talk about
this all the time. The idea of setting your defense,
but scoring the basketball makes getting stops easier. It just does,
even above and beyond the geometry of the floor when
they have to take the ball out of the basket.
It's also about it's a motivation and passion and just
when you're getting buckets, you want to sit better in
(08:05):
a stance and to fight harder over that screen. And
it's about believing in what your unit is capable of
doing on both ends of the floor. And like above
and beyond anything else, there was no legitimate like earning
of the rotation spot. And what I mean by that
is it's not like Cam's playing so well you have
(08:26):
to start him. It's not like Jared Vanderbilt is playing
so well you have to start him. Torny and Prince
is the one guy in that group where it's like
he's taken like eight nine threes a game and he's
making forty percent of him over the last month or whatever.
Like Torrian, at least you can make the case he's
shooting the shit out of the basketball. You gotta have
him on the floor, right, But those other two spots,
(08:49):
how is it that by default they're going to lesser players.
That's the part I don't understand, like, like Austin Reeves
has had some defensive limitations this year. There's no doubt
he hasn't been as good this year. Teams are being
more deliberate about attacking him. But beyond any shadow of
a doubt, the total two way impact of Austin has
(09:12):
far superseded anything that Cam Reddis and Jared Vanderbilt had
brought to the table. So there is legitimately no logical
case for putting this line up out there to start games.
And it's frustrating for me because I hear you say
things like what you just said a minute ago, you
were like, and I think they're going to stick with
it for the time being. Okay, can you elaborate on
(09:33):
that for me? First of all, like how long do
you mean? And also like, is he just under the
impression that this is going to start working at some point?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, I think inherently coaches you know when they make
a decision. Because the funny thing to me with this
whole thing was we had been asking about a potential
starting lineup change during the skid a couple of games prior,
and Darvin was in you're referencing. I think it was
after they lost the third consecutive game after the Bulls game,
and you know, Darvin, we referenced when the Lakers won
(10:06):
lost their three consecutive games earlier in the season. That's
when you saw Austin Reeves go to the bench and
he inserted Cam Reddish, and that was the big change
was you know, this starting lineup isn't working. We don't
believe in you know, Austin and Dilo can play together,
and we want to try Cam out there. So they
make that change. And you know, so now they're on
a three game losing streak. We ask about it and
(10:27):
he's like, well, you know, that's a big deal to
change the starting lineup at this point in the season,
and you know, it's it's not something that we, you know,
are going to do lightly. So then they lose the
fourth game in a row, and then all of a
sudden they make this starting lineup change, and I just so,
I think inherently there's a level of stubbornness that comes
with being a head coach where when you make a
(10:48):
change like that, you don't want to give up on it.
I asked last night, you know, I said, with the
way that defenses are guarding Cam and Vando right now
and just packing the paint and completely ignore them. Do
you think a Cam vandoh Wing tandem is viable, you know,
as a starting tandem And if so, how are you
(11:09):
gonna make that work? And then he basically went on
to say, it's all about pacing and they have to
attack the way that defenses are playing them and use
the space against them. But like, those guys aren't Draymond
Green as passers and decision makers, and the Lakers don't
have Steph Curry or Klay Thompson on this lineup. So
it's one thing to use the Golden State model of
we're gonna use Vando as like a dribble handoff guy
(11:32):
and like this and that. But like if you saw
the way that Boston offended them in those actually like
they tried some of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
They've been playing more for out.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
They've been having Vando more in the dunker spot, and
that's another thing, like they've started to abandon their five
out principles because of this starting lineup change trying to
make it work.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
And then on the other end, I.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Thought Anthony Davis had a comment that kind of went
under the radar where he was like we've been He
didn't say we've been a drop in hedge team, but
basically like, we have not been a switch team. Now
we are switching a lot, and we're batching a lot
of the communication and a lot of the coverages, and
I think you've seen that where there's been miscommunication and
transition defense. They were cross matched with Boston because Christaps
(12:11):
Porzingis was on Jared Vanderbilt, so that kind of messed
up some of the matchups, and you saw in transition
they didn't know who their man was, and then within
the half court sets there was miscommunication on you know,
when are we switching these off ball actions, who's sticking
with the cutter, etc. So I think right now that
they're kind of in a period of still trying to
figure some of that stuff out.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
But to me, it just it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Again in theory, it has not made sense in practice,
and I think they should pull the plug now. And look,
they're gonna play Charlotte on Thursday. Team, they're gonna look great,
They're gonna win that game, and Darvin's gonna be able
to point to that. But you've got to measure yourself
against the Minnesota's the Oklahoma Cities and the Bostons, and
I just don't think that type of lineup is viable
(12:55):
against that calbur of opponent.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, the Oklahoma City game was very much the Lakers
just dominated the possession battle. That was a big part
of how they did well in that game, and they
were just so much bigger at every single position. I
agree with you that stubbornness is the primary driver, because
it felt like it felt like the obvious change to
make was just swap d Lo and Austin in the
starting lineup, and if you wanted to get Jared Vanderbilt
(13:18):
in there, you get him in there for Cam. But
it almost felt like if Darvin put Austin in the
starting lineup, he would be basically publicly admitting he made
a mistake by benching him to begin with. And that,
to me is stupid because that's cutting off your nose
despite your face. You're not proving anybody right, You're just
you're blatantly shining a light on yourself that you are
being stubborn. In fact, I've always found it more admirable
(13:40):
when people are willing to admit when they've made mistakes,
and situations like that Austin, by the way, going into
the game where he got not like where he should
have been put back in the starting lineup, but they
went with Jared instead. He had like, over an eight
game span, been averaging twenty five and six on sixty
five percent trait, like literally playing his best stretch of
basketball the season, including just being an absolute monster in
(14:02):
these in season tournament games. So it was like the
most obvious decision that you could possibly imagine for a
situation like that.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Now I want to dive more.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Into this concept of switching versus being a drop in
hedge team, but I want to look at it through
the context of lineup constructions. So we're going to come
back to that in a minute. What I want to
start with is one of my biggest pet peeves is
when people are just like, hey, that's stupid, but then
they don't provide a counter solution. So what we're gonna
do today is we're going to have a little exercise
where we talk about what the Lakers starting lineup should
(14:34):
look like, the pros and cons of constructing them in
different ways, and talking about what schemes would have to
be used to work with those groups. So I want
you to go first. If you were the head coach
of the Los Angeles Lakers tonight or tomorrow night, I
should say, who would you put out as you're starting
five against the Charlotte Hornets.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So I would start, of course Lebron and eighty at
the four and the five. I would go with Austin
at the one, Torrian at the two, and Cam at
the three. I think, to me, the pivot point in
that lineup comes down to Cam versus vand Do. I
think you can make a case for either one of
those guys. Vando obviously bigger, better rebounder. Cam is shooting
(15:12):
the ball slightly better thirty percent overall, but twenty five
percent in the month of December, but at least he's
taking and making some van Do is zero for ten
on the season.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
So like that that that's a problem to me. So
I would go with those three.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I think Torrian, I mean one, he's third on the
team in minutes, So like any lineup that is you're
pitching a starting lineup that doesn't have Torrian is just unrealistic.
At this point, he's gonna He's a starting lock at
this point and a closing lock. Frankly, so I think
Torrion shooting forty percent for the last month or so.
As you said on threes, I think he's a competent defender,
(15:49):
not necessarily a lockdown wing the way that Darvin uses
him at times, but I think, as like your secondary
perimeter guy, that's fine. Then I look at that Van
doh Cam spot as the point of attack, going to
defend the best one through three.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Guy and then Austin.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think if Austin's your worst defender and you're kind
of hiding him on the secondary ball handler or the
secondary guard, I think that's totally fine, and you see
the Lakers close more often than not with that alignment.
So to me, I mean this is pretty clearly the
best lineup construct of you know, Austin's your third best player,
don't overthink it, start him, play him more than twenty
(16:28):
eight minutes a night. Torrian's out there as a floor spacer,
and then you have the Cam Vandos spot, which honestly
to me could even rotate depending on matchup. But if
you want to go with one, I think Cam has
in the aggregate.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Played slightly better.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
He is the better shooter, and you just you got
to tell him don't put the ball on the floor
because that's kind of been an issue lately, is him
doing too much offensively. But that to me is just,
you know, pretty plainly the best potential starting five when
factoring in roles.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
And the way that guys have been play lately. So
that's the group I would go with.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So I have two lineups that I consider, and one
of them is basically a switching lineup, and one of
them is more of like a hedge and drop lineup.
And the hedge and drop lineup is basically the same
lineup you put together. Again, don't overthink it. Austin's your
best player or best non lebron A D player, so
you go Austin lebron A D. Torrian's the one guy
(17:24):
out of all these wings that is doing one thing
at a super high level, which is shooting, so you
put him in that group. To me, it's it's Cam
is the better option right now. But the reason why
I start Jared is I do think eventually he's going
to get his legs underneath him and start defending like
he did towards the tail end of last year. So
I think inevitably in the long run, because Cam again
(17:45):
there have been these brief stretches where it's like, okay,
a two or three game stretch here where he only
takes corner threes and he's focused on the defensive end
and he's deeply impactful. But it's been a lot of
random bs around that, which has kind of limited some
of his effectiveness. And again, like it's not. One of
the things I appreciate about Jared Vanderbilt is he knows
he can't shoot, so you won't see him take a
(18:07):
pull up transition above the break three where you're like, dude, okay,
we can get a better shot than that. Like he's
gonna go get the ball to somebody that can make
a decision with it. So I would go Austin Vando,
Torrian lebron Ad in like a hedge and drop system
where we're trying to keep ad close to the rim.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
This is the other lineup that i'd pitch.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And the basic concept here is you're putting your five
best players on the floor, okay, and it'd be Austin
Torrean Ruey lebron Ad. This would be a switch group. Now,
to Anthony Davis's point, switching has ups and downs. The
upsides are stagnate's an offense, you get in front of actions,
(18:47):
you shut down a ball screen game. There's a bunch
of things you can do with switching to stagnate an opponent.
Downsides there can be confusion in switches, and when you
botch a switch, people get wide open. That's a big problem.
Can be fixed, the repetition communication, just building really good habits.
That's that's something where part of part of the risk
of changing your defensive set up in the middle of
(19:08):
the season is you can go through a stretch where
you look like shit doing it because you guys don't
have your habits down right. But then the other side
of it is like, Okay, we can give up rebounding
mismatches or we can give up post up mismatches. There
are downsides physically to switching, but you're huge in that group,
Like you're unbelievably big. You're Corey and Prince at six '
(19:29):
eight at the two, Ruyachimur at six ' nine at
the three and whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
He is two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Pounds, Lebron James six nine sixty two seventy at the four,
and Anthony Davis one of the biggest athletes in the
league at the five, and so you have the ability
to basically shrink the floor when teams try to attack
matchups in terms of digging down and rotating in help.
And you're huge on the glass. And so one of
the reasons why I like that that that potential group
(19:55):
is like you are trying to float things until you
get to a point where you could recon figure the roster.
And we're gonna talk about that in a minute, and
that could fundamentally change the entire direction that this team goes,
and you might have to kind of do what you
did last year where you're basically a new team post
deadline anyway, but you gotta get to that point, and
in the Western Conference, you got to try to eat
up as many wins as possible. I think finding as
(20:16):
many opportunities as possible to have your best players together
can go a long way towards helping you there. D'Angel
Russell is arguably your fifth best player, but with Torrean
shooting as well as he has and with the built
of build of that lineup, let's just call him your
fifth best player there. And then again, you eat some
of the lumps of not of being as sharp with
your switches and hope that it hopes that over time
(20:38):
you can kind of figure some of that stuff out.
But like, again to Anthony Davis's point, like there's there's
you gotta find what it is that you want to
be and lean into it. If you're gonna be a
switching team, then build lineups accordingly and lean into it.
If you're gonna be a hedge and drop team, then
build lineups accordingly and lean into it. But this idea
where it's like, Okay, hey, we're gonna we're gonna run
(21:02):
Cam and Torrian and and and Jared Vanderbilt, and we're
gonna be this athletic team. But we're just like putting
together all these other weird groups where Austin, We're like, okay,
here comes Ruey and Dill and they're just gonna come
down the floor and shoot every time. Because so we're
fundamentally changing the team. It's been it's been such a
bizarre experience watching in the last couple of days because
(21:23):
all we're seeing is these really redundant groups that just
have a bunch of the same type of talent on
the floor and they're really really struggling and there's no
doubt that they're underachieving.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Part of the issue here is you're.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Talking about, Okay, well maybe it should be Cam, maybe
it should be Jared. I'm talking about like, well, maybe
it should be RUI, maybe it should be.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
You know, Jared.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
We're talking about all these different configurations, and the issue
there is none of these guys are are really what
they need. As good as Ruey is, as good as
Cam is, as good as Jared is, as good as
Torrian is, they all have a fundamental downside. Torrian, as
good as he's shooting, is just not good enough to
be a primary point of attack defender. He's just not
Jared Vanderbilt is good enough to do that, but he's
(22:07):
such a huge offensive limitation saying I Cam, I would
argue he's not good enough to do either, right, And
then Ruey hatche Mura basically has to be in a
switching scheme because he can't navigate screens, and so that
begs the question, like if this is all going in
towards a direction where you need to consolidate these guys
(22:28):
and you need to turn them into a specific type
of player that works to me. Until Darvin basically accepts
that Austin is the one, and that you need to
upgrade these two and three. It's hard to even get
to that point where we're moving in the right direction.
So I guess this would be my question. Have you
heard anything internally that has that leads you to believe
(22:52):
that there's frustrating frustration building simply from the standpoint that
they can't build functional lineups.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, I think even if you look at players comments postgame,
there's been and some of that stuff is natural during
a losing streak, So I don't want to like overplay that,
but you've seen several guys kind of be like, I
don't know my role essentially, or you know, like I
think Rui has been one of the most vocal in
that sense of just like some nights Rui's playing sixteen
(23:21):
minutes a night, some nights Ruey's playing thirty minutes a night.
And it's really been just kind of this up and
down thing with so many guys, and like, I.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Mean, look at Delo.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Delo, you know, plays thirty eight minutes against the Timberwolves,
starts that game two for twelve. Don't really understand why
he's playing so much in that game, especially when Austin
has it going and then he gets benched and plays
eighteen minutes in each of the next couple of games.
So right now, the Lakers kind of continue to use
(23:52):
the injury bug as an excuse in my opinion of
you know, we're not Like Lebron was asked last night
about how you compare against Boston, OKC, Minnesota. You guys
just went one to two against those three teams, and
he referenced the team's injuries. But last night, Gabe Vincent
was the only guy that was out, and I know
Cam had a groin issue. Lebron obviously had that collision
(24:15):
with Jalen Brown late in the second quarter. But the
Lakers have been pretty healthy relatively over the last couple weeks,
and we've still seen them struggle to beat a San
Antonio team without Ad and just some of these losses,
you know, losing to Chicago basically fully healthy, that was
the game gave Vincent return. So, like, I think that
(24:38):
excuse only holds water for so long, and at some
point it's got to be like, we have to figure
this out in terms of our rotations and our lineups.
And I think another thing that's kind of gone under
discussed with everything right now is like the Lakers wanted
to have continuity. That was the theme of the offseason.
They said it in every press conference. It was the
(24:59):
main reason why they brought the band back together. And
that continuity has basically gone out the window. Where you
won with a Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves, D'Angelo Russell starting
perimeter group that has barely played together this season, and
part of that, of course is Jared Vanderbilt's injury.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
But you know, originally it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Was, well, Austin and Dilo can't play together, so let's
bring Austin off the bench. Now it's well, they're playing
well together, so let's bring them off the bench together,
and you know, have their broad the second unit, and
it's just it's kind of mixed messaging. So I think,
you know, certainly there's some frustration internally in terms of,
you know, can we just stick with a lineup and
(25:40):
a rotation for X amount of games, see what's working
and what's not, and stop vacillating game to game the
way that it has. And part of that, again is
injuries and that they have had some bad luck, and
that there have been reasons why certain lineups haven't been
able to play as much as the Lakers would like.
But part of that's just been, you know, certain guys
(26:00):
struggle and they get benched, and certain guys struggle and
they continue to play. And I think we've kind of
seen that, like Torrian and Cam have very long leashes
in terms of you know, like Torrian had that stretch
where like eleven games he was shooting twenty eight percent
on threes and he continued to play thirty plus minutes
a night consistently. Cam has had some rough stretches, particularly shooting,
(26:21):
and he's continued to play, whereas guys like Austin Dilo Rui,
like those guys are fluctuating more so, I think that
you know, you mentioned the consolidation with Delo and Rui.
I think that's a you the likely solution here. But
it has been kind of wild that night tonight. It's
really you don't know what you're getting in terms of
lineups and rotation, and like, part of that again is injuries,
(26:44):
but part of that is just you got to stick
to something, and it shouldn't be this current scarring lineup.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Well, and again like leaning into Cam and Torrian as
much as they have has diminished any sort of continuity,
like you're, You're, You're mentioned, because those those guys are
eating up the majority of the of the wing minutes.
And again, like like I like a long leash for
especially a skill player guys like Austin, guys like d Lo,
guys like Rui, because you want them to always be
(27:14):
in rhythm, and so you disrupt rhythm by constantly taking
them out of games. There's no real upside to giving
super long leashes to Torrian or Cam because Torrian is
basically a high volume catch and shoot guy and more
or less he's just shooting, catching and shoot threes. He's
not a guy that's actually breaking the defense down, and Cam, like,
I'm not even sure you can point to a single
thing that he does well offensively. So like like maybe
(27:38):
putting the ball on the floor for a six eight guy,
he's got a little bit more pot there than some
guys based on his pedigree, but like, there's just not
a lot that you're getting there in terms of upside.
And so again, like I agree with you that the
fluctuations are occurring in the wrong spot on the roster.
As far as Lebron and the excuses with injury. One
hundred percent agree as well, because the way I look
at it's like you're not beating the Celtics as cur
(28:00):
constructed when Lebron plays like shit under any circumstances. Okay,
you played really well against the Thunder, and again, they're
a bad matchup and they've struggled with big teams most
of the year. The Minnesota game schedule, loss tail end
of it, back to back, just just a rough game, right,
But there's a lot of games in there that they
had no business losing. You know, even if I give
you the Chicago one, because Chicago has been playing some
(28:22):
good basketball lately, it's like you lost to a Dallas
Mavericks team that was decimated by injuries, and I watched
you guys not play hard to start the game. You
turned it on in the third quarter, like I watched
you guys lose to San Antonio Spurs, san Antonio's first
team that literally hadn't beat anybody in like a month
and hasn't beat anybody since.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's that's there's no there's no oh, like Jared Vanderbilt's
foot's bothering him. So we lost to the Spurs. You know,
like there's that to me is not something that I
that I buy into. Some of this is like when
you are trying to float until there's a point in
the future where you reorder. Yet some things on the
roster you can't afford to lose those games. And one
(29:05):
of the things that they did well at the beginning
of the year is they lost to the good teams,
but they took care of business against those teams, and
that hasn't been the case as of late, and I
think it's it's done a disservice to them. But let's
talk about this deadline for a minute here, because we've
seen d Angela Russell's role change. He's only taking ten
shots a game over his last nine and forty percent
(29:26):
from the field, below thirty percent from three. He's weirdly
important now because of Gabe Vincent's injury as essentially the
backup point guard, although Austin's kind of in that spot too,
which is which again leads you to wonder why the
hell the rotation is constructed the way it is. But
I saw a star trade get suggested today. That was
the first one that I've actually liked for the Lakers.
(29:50):
I have not liked any mention of DeMar Derozen or
zach Lavine or any of these other names that have
been thrown out there. But I'm Trannie reported today that
we should keep an eye out for de Jonte Murray
to be on the Lakers radar. Now, I I want
you actually to go first here. Do you do you
(30:13):
actually view that as realistic? Because I'm wondering why in
the heck the Hawks would want one first and Ruey Hatcha,
Mura and d Lo as a package there? Do you
view it as realistic?
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And two?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
If so, do you think it's a direction that would
help alleviate some of the Lakers issues Right now?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I view it as realistic insofar as I think the
Atlanta situation clearly isn't working and they likely have to
split that up. I feel like Dejonte is more of
the fall guy in this scenario, and I think the
Lakers would have interest in him, and do you have
(30:51):
interest in him? And there's also the clutch connection, so
you can't you know, I guess you.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Know overlook that.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
But to your point, like, the Lakers don't have a
lot to give up, and I think when front offices
admit a mistake, we were talking about it with coaches,
but with front offices to admit a mistake.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I mean, when did they trade for him? But I
don't even remember how.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Three years ago.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think it was two years ago, a couple of
years ago, so it hasn't been that long. And you know,
for them to admit a mistake, and given all that
they gave up to get him, to get a just
one first round pick back and you're not going to
get Austin Reeves. So I think Austin would you have
to be like a bona fide high level All star
(31:40):
for the Lakers to include Austin Reeves in a deal.
So if you're looking at something like Delo Rui, one
of the younger guys, you know, be at Max or
Jalen and throw in a pick. Lakers have upwards of
four pick swaps they could throw in, So maybe you're
throwing a pick swapper too, just to appease Atlanta and
get is done. Like is you know, is there a
(32:03):
better package out there? And I think there probably is
for de Jonte Murray. I look at a team like
Philly and what you know they could potentially offer in Philly,
and the Lakers are kind of in the same boat
in looking for the same types of players, be it
an Alex Caruso or whatnot, or you know, more three
and D wings. So like a team like Philly can
come in and probably offer a better package and a
(32:25):
more aggressive package, as we know Threw Moorey likes to do,
so I do look at it would probably have to
be a situation where just the market is dry for
Dejonte and you know he wants to be in LA
and you got the clutch situation, and the Lakers and Hawks,
you know, figure out and again probably some pick swaps
in there just to appease them. But that's where I
just the actual package itself I kind of struggle with.
(32:47):
I don't know if you expand it to a three
team deal. Feels like a lot of these potential trades
for the Lakers probably have to be a three team
deal where Delo gets rerouted to a third team. That's
you know, kind of an O case Utah situation where
they're just trying to absorb a contract and you know,
get another asset out of it. Maybe that's where one
of the younger guys goes as well. But that's where
(33:10):
I hesitate to say it's realistic in terms of like
actually looking at the package, but I think the Lakers
Dejonte checks the box of you could imagine him in
that starting lineup with his size and athleticism defensively and
just what he's capable of. I think he could fit
the type of defensive guard the Lakers could use. And
then again, the clutch situation, I think kind of speaks
(33:32):
for itself, So I think that there's some smoke there
for sure. I just I struggle seeing Atlanta pulling the
trigger and that ultimately being the best available package for him.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, it's it's funny because I'm super skeptical as well
as to the realistic nature of this type of deal.
But it again, as I said earlier, it's the first
one I really like. And the main reason why is
because it's a star. A star, but a star that
kind of compliments the specific issues that the Lakers are having.
(34:03):
We talked about the pros and cons of switching versus
dropping earlier, and I am a big believer that ideally,
if you have the personnel for it, I'd prefer to drop.
And the main reason why is to me, Anthony Davis
at the RIM is the is the best version of
this Laker defense, and throughout the history of this team,
(34:25):
the best versions of them have basically been teams that
allow Anthony Davis to defend and pick and roll, and
then the Lakers will switch at the end of games,
They'll switch Anthony Davis in pick and roll onto the
opposing star to get a couple of key stops at
the end. That to me is the is the direction
this team should should go in order to reach their
(34:46):
own personal ceiling. But in order to do so, they
need a legitimate point of attack guard that can navigate
over the top of screens and apply back pressure. I
viewed de Jontey Murray as that type of guy. I
think he's I think for starters, he came up with
a defen pedigree and.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Two.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
The dude was a huge Lebron fan early on and
would probably be willing to take on a role like
that in hopes of potentially achieving a longer championship run
with Lebron James and Anthony Davis. I think he compliments
Austin Reeves really well in the backcourt. Dejonte was a
really bad off ball player last year, having a much
much better off ball season this year. Fueled in large
(35:25):
part by just him shooting the ball better and catch
and shoot situations and being more aggressive in catch and
shoot situations. This was a guy who looked to drive
close outs a lot in the past. Now he's taking
a lot of those jumpers when he gets them. So
I think it's like a would be an absolute slam
dunk as far as star trades go. That said, I
still come back to the same three things. Ideally, you
want an upgrade at the three, an upgrade at the two,
(35:47):
and an upgrade.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
At the center position.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And so I still think the most realistic and best
case scenario for the Lakers is some sort of deal
with Chicago where they get Caruso and someone like Andre Drummond,
and maybe that that's the deal that probably requires draft compensation.
And then I look at a team like Brooklyn and
(36:13):
that's the team I'd be calling with RUI Because the
other important part of this, too is what does Ruy
do for Atlanta? They have the same player basically in
DeAndre Hunter. DeAndre Hunter is very very similar to Ruy Hatchimura,
pull up mid range jump shooter guy, kind of an
on an Island score that seems to kind of struggle
in the flow of offense, and so I again to
(36:35):
your point, they'd need a third team to even facilitate
a deal like that. But Brooklyn has like three big
lanky wings that are kind of like more like twos
and threes. And then Ben Simmons is therefore and he's
been injured basically right, so they don't have a big,
strong forward. They don't have like an actual Ruey Hachimura archetype,
(36:57):
but they have a guy like Dorian Finney Smith to
go alongside Cam Johnson, to go alongside Mikhale Bridges. I'd
be looking to potentially make a swap like that where
you're getting a guy like Dorian Finney Smith, which is
basically Torrian Prince with better perimeter defense, and that ends
up being an upgrade at that position. If they did
something like that, now we're talking about a lineup that
(37:18):
could throw out Austin at the one, Alex Cruso at
the two, a guy like Dorian Finney Smith at the three,
Lebron and ad all of those position positions make perfect sense.
It cleans up some of the rotation stuff, and then
you'd have a playoff, playable center in someone like Andre
Drummond coming off of the bench, which I think we've
seen a lot from Christian Wood and Jackson Hayes has
(37:38):
left a lot to be desired in recent weeks. So
I still lean like instead of targeting that bigger type
of target, little trades for upgrades at starting caliber positions.
You have two starting caliber players in D'Angelo Russell and
Ruy Hachamura that don't start for you because you already
have guys in their positions. You have to find a
(37:59):
way to turn that into starters that slot into those positions.
Do you agree with me or do you think that
they should go big fish hunting?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think it depends on the big fish. I think
the Jontey Murray is, as you were implying, going in
the right direction in comparison with the zach Lavine or
even DeMar DeRozan. I think I would prefer de Rosan
over Levine if I'm the Lakers, and I know they
feel the same way. But even there, you know, with
(38:28):
his lack of three point shooting and his defense is passable,
you know, depending on who he's guarding. But like, I
still think there's a bit of a fit issue there.
Both starting and closing games, whereas with the Jonte, I
think he would slot in properly. You could close games
with him in Austin, you could start games with him
in Austin. Though I don't know if they would go
(38:49):
in that direction, but I think it just makes more sense.
But I'm with you, and I know that this is
something that they've been weighing, and really it's been one
of the big questions for the Lakers as an organization
over the last few years has been do we chase
the third star or do we go for the role
player upgrades? And I think we saw with the Russell
(39:11):
Westbrook situation that they chased the third star did not work. Now, granted,
outside of Ben Simmons, that might have been the worst
third star to pair with Lebron n Ad in terms
of fit, it probably was the worst. But you know, so,
I don't know if that's like the best example of
what a third star could look like next to Lebron
(39:31):
and Ad. Like I think when they were going after
Damian Lillard briefly, like that would have been a perfect
fit in my opinion. You know, you could have Ad
covering for him defensively and with his shooting and picking
roll ability, alleviating a lot of that burden off of Lebron,
And of course, you know he's been a top ten
twelve player over the last few years, so I mean
that's the high level upgrade, of course, But like I think,
(39:52):
there's degrees here where just just blatantly, you know, saying
that a third star won't work or won't fit, I
think is a mistake. But they don't really have the
assets to get the type of third star that would
fit perfectly next to Lebron and ad In my opinion,
it would really have to be a terrible contract or
(40:13):
you know, a situation where you know they can get
a third team involved and maybe that can help facilitate it.
But I just don't see it the Lakers, being straight up,
you're being able to find that type of third star
that really takes them to the level of a Denver
or a Boston.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So to me, it is a smaller upgrade.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I'm with you. I think three and D wing has
been the biggest issue for this team really since the championship.
You know, they haven't been able to replace I mean,
they still had KCP and KU's that second year, but
injuries and whatnot but like they haven't been able to
replace that, you know, since the Russ trade with you know,
kcp Cou's Danny Green. Even Alex Caruso is more of
(40:50):
a three and D guard, Like, they just haven't had
those types of guys consistently, so, you know, it's always
been one flawed like Jared Vanderbilt, really good perimeter defender,
but can't shoot, and teams just play him off the
floor in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
So I think finding at least one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
If not a couple, if possible, Like you know, maybe
you can't get Caruso and you go for Royce O'Neil
and Dory Finney Smith, and you know, Royce O'Neil obviously
isn't the caliber of player that Alex Cruso is, but
to me, it would still be an overall upgrade to
the rotation if you could bring both of those guys in.
Those are two guys the Lakers have had interest in
dating back to last offseason and even last trade deadlines.
(41:28):
So I know that those are two guys that they
would have interest in bringing in. So I think, you know,
we're on the same page here in terms of if
you can find the perfect third star somehow and make
that work and make a miracle, you know, pull it off. Like, sure,
go for that, but realistically, I think it's gonna have
to be a marginal upgrade in terms of the starting
and closing lineup. But that's still very important for this
(41:50):
group is obviously they have yet to figure out what's
our best five man lineup and we're over thirty games
into the season.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
That that's the key there is, like you have to
find a way to make Darvin's job easier because he's struggling.
He's struggling. I mean, like I said this, yes the
other day, and I truly believe it. Like, in all
my time watching basketball, I can't ever remember a lineup
decision that confused me as much as this starting lineup move.
(42:19):
And it's not born out of, you know, foolishness from Darvin.
It's born out of desperation. He's straight up trying to
find something that works. Now, I think he's grabbing at
the wrong stuff personally, but I do think that this
is born out of desperation, out of situation, and like,
at the end of the day, you have to you
can no longer have it. You put it like this,
(42:41):
in your tweet the night that they announced the starting lineup,
and it really was this simple. The three three of
the top five highest players, the highest played role players
outside of Lebron James and Anthony Davis all came off
the bench. That's just a misallocation of resources, plain and simple.
You're you're making your job harder and so finding ways
(43:02):
to to uh to make it so that it's pretty
straightforward that your five best players are on the floor
to start and finish games. Is the Bill Simmons, you know,
always said this when I was growing up listening to him,
and I thought it was smart. It's just like, who's
your five, who's your five? Like who's the five you're
going down with? And the Lakers don't know, and that's
(43:23):
the problem. And they have a problem here because even
number three isn't viewed as number three by the head.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Coach, So so.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It becomes an issue there now. I actually, again, you
have to you have to add realistic expectations here. I
agree with you, like Philly's gonna be aggressive, Miami's going
to be aggressive. I wouldn't be surprised if we see
teams like Oklahoma City, Indiana and Sacramento get aggressive more
for a front court player, so like a Golden State's
(43:52):
gonna be aggressive there. I think this is going to
be an extremely active deadline, and I do think the
Lakers are gonna get outbid by some of the bigger
targets out there, or for some of the bigger targets,
and so I think it is going to be important
to try to find, you know, guys that are where
you're getting more out of the sum.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Of the parts, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
And honestly, Royce O'Neil is an interesting kind of fallback
option for like a two guard. One of the things
I like about Royce is he's not afraid to shoot
the basketball like that. That is something that I think
could go well with that group. And he is comfortable
a little bit behind the three point line as well.
I think I think you're you're hitting at all the
right stuff there. I think like realistic targets, upgrades at
(44:31):
the role players, those are the directions to go. I've
seen a lot of people talking about Austin's defense. I
can think of a lot of ways the Lakers could
lose on their way to a title this year, and
none of them involve Austin becoming an issue.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
They just don't for me.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Like I obviously there are there are moments where he
can get exploited for his lack of size, but having
one guy on the floor like that is a problem
every single team has. I watched Denver literally get relentlessly
attacked in the post by Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan Minga
on Jamal Murray. You know, I've seen a team's do
(45:05):
it to Boston's guards. I've seen teams do it to
Dame into Malik Beasley. That's that, to me, is just
a fundamental part of a good basketball team is you
got to have a point guard on the floor and
he's probably going to be smaller, and he's probably gonna
be a guy that can be attacked. That to me
is something you have to learn to work around instead
of just bailing on entirely. And so to me, it's
about the two and the three. All right, before we
(45:26):
get out of here, is there anything that you wanted
to plug? I know you've been working really hard over
the holiday.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
My story today about the starting lineup, and I think
the headline literally was, you know, it doesn't make any sense,
And I mean I go into some of the reasons,
you know, look at some of the early possessions of
just the way they're defending the Lakers, and why it's
a mistake to continue using this lineup, the trickle down
(45:56):
effect that I think you were talking about offense leading
to defense. Like the other thing here is if you're
not scoring, you're giving up you know, transition baskets, and
that's what I think. There was a play early in
the game. Ham runs a pick and roll because the
Lakers need another ball handler out there. He's running pick
and roll, he turns the ball over in the Celtics
score and transition. It's like, if you have Cam as
(46:17):
that fourth or fifth ball handler in the lineup, you're
not really running into that. But when you put him
as arguably the second ball handler in the lineup, now
that's where you have some of these issues. So to me,
you know, Lakers clearly have to go in a different
direction with that lineup in the way that it affects
the rest of the rotation.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
But that would be the main thing.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
I'll have some stuff coming up, you know, for the
new year in terms of state of the Lakers and
sort of where things are at. But for now, just
enjoy a breakdown of why their new starting lineup doesn't
make sense.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
One of the things I appreciated was that in that
second half, I don't know if you noticed, but they
just started posting up Lebron and eighty every single possession,
And like that, to me is the at least the
right counter to that none of our other guys.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Can dribble situation, which is which is something to look at.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
But like I, Yovan and I have joked about this
off the air, but like, in a weird way, this
has been kind of like the perfect Lakers season because
obviously everybody outside of the Laker fan base just thinks
they suck, and I tend to think that's wrong. I
think this is I think the Lakers are the team
that have the largest gap between their night to night
effort and what they're capable of, which is going to
lead to some mixed results in the regular season that
(47:29):
are gonna make them look lesser than they are. But
it's kind of perfect because they're, in my opinion, one
of the short list of teams that genuinely has a
chance to win the title if they hit, if they
hit at the deadline. But tons of drama, tons of
shitty basketball for us to complain about over the course
of the eighty two Yovan did an amazing job. In
his article today broke down a bunch of specific video
(47:51):
examples of the way that the floor is shrunk on
the Laker starters, with the way that lineup was constructed.
I highly encourage you guys to check it out. As always,
we shit you guys for supporting the show. We'll have
a show tomorrow coming out with power rankings as well
as some game breakdowns.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I will see you guys.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Then the volume
Host
Jason Timpf
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