How LeBron James, Luka Doncic & Lakers match up in West after Marcus Smart & Deandre Ayton additions
August 8, 2025 • 27 mins
Jason answers mailbag questions on a variety of topics including how the Los Angeles Lakers match up against Western Conference contenders with Luka Doncic and LeBron James, how the Marcus Smart and Deandre Ayton signings impact the team, whether there are any realistic Austin Reaves or Rui Hachimura trades out there, the GOAT case for Kobe Bryant, how high Nikola Jokic can climb in the all-time NBA rankings with the Denver Nuggets, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at
the volume heavy Friday. Everybody, it is mail bag Day.
I'm very thankful for you guys for dropping questions in
(00:22):
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throughout the season and the last not least, Like I
mentioned off the top. Keep dropping those mailback questions in
the YouTube comments. All right, let's talk some basketball Off
(01:04):
the top a couple of questions regarding matchups for the Lakers.
First question, as currently constructed, how do you think this
roster of the Lakers would fare against the Minnesota Timberwolves
in a seven game series? So At, I foolishly came
up here before the first round matchup last year and
(01:26):
said that the Wolves were the best possible matchup for
the Lakers, and I could not have been more wrong.
They were the worst possible matchup for the Lakers because
of the massive gap in their athleticism and because of
their ability to switch everything and make life harder on
the Lakers ball handlers. They specifically played Austin Reeves into
the worst playoff series of his young career. They wore
(01:48):
Luka Doncic down over the course of games, and he
was brutal in fourth quarters. It just it was just
too much for them to handle. That said, as is
always the case, these series are closer than they look. Right,
just because the Wolves were a bad matchup for the
Lakers doesn't mean the Lakers had no shot. They were
there in Game three, they were there in Game four,
you win one of those games, it could potentially look
(02:10):
like a different series. I still think even after the
addition of Marcus Smart and Deandrayton, the Wolves are still
a bad matchup for the Lakers for the exact same reasons,
but the Lakers are deeper now. The Lakers lost that
series if you guys remember in fourth quarters running out
of gas at the end of games, so improved depth
(02:31):
obviously gives them a better shot. I also think an
improved Luca gives them a better shot. So in short,
I think the Lakers have a better chance to beat
Minnesota this year than last year, but I would still
much rather avoid them in the bracket all together because
I still think it's a very bad matchup for them.
Next question, mail bag Nuggets in five. The Lakers don't
(02:53):
have the size. This team isn't beating the Nuggets. I
actually think the Lakers matchup pretty well with Denver for
one reason. The Nuggets are absolutely hopeless to guard Luka
doncicin pick and roll, as we saw when they faced
off last year and periodically throughout Luka Doncic's matchups with
Jokic over the years. He's his ability to pull Jokich
up to the level, but then surgically make every read.
(03:16):
It just breaks Denver's defense. Now, the Nuggets are much
better this year than they were last year, So at
this point I would still pick the Nuggets to beat
the Lakers in a series. But I think the Lakers
have a puncher's chance to upset Denver because of Lucas's
specific ability to pick their defensive defensive part. Another Lakers question,
(03:39):
UK listener here love the pod. What's the trade you
think another team would do centered around Ruy or Austin?
I guess right now rather than at the trade deadline,
that could significantly improve the Lakers and their athleticism without
surrendering Polinka's beloved post Lebron picks. I do think and
Andrew Wiggins trade would immediately make the Lakers a top
(04:00):
tier contender. He would immediately address their athleticism and defense needs.
He specifically, in my opinion, as one of like the
top tier, if not second or second tier to top
tier somewhere in that rain one of the top ten,
like Apex defenders that you can put on an opposing
star in a playoff series, and he can do it
against multiple different types of stars. I also think he
(04:21):
just makes a substantial upgrade in athleticism, which is what
they would need. I also think he would play really
well offensively off of Luca, and I think the Lakers
could pull off that trade, including Dalton and maybe some
second round compensation and not having to include their first
round pick. But the Lakers seem uninterested in making that
type of deal because of Andrew's age and because of
(04:42):
their timeline without Wiggins if we take him out of
the equation. I don't see a move this summer like
that's readily available right now that the Lakers could make
that would immediately vault them up in terms of their
athleticism and their ability to contend for a title this season.
I don't see it right now. The question for me
(05:03):
is more whether or not in the regular season call
it at the deadline. If this opportunity to present it itself,
would the Lakers jump on it? And I don't think
they will. I think they'll hold on, and that is
the part that concerns me. I'll give you an example.
Aaron Nesmith, the player I've talked about quite a bit.
I think Aaron is quite literally exactly what the Lakers need.
(05:25):
He's a versatile point of attack defender that has the
strength to guard multiple positions. He's an excellent three point
shooter and also an excellent closeout attacker. Just in the
playoffs last year, he converted spot up opportunities at one
point two to one points per possession. That's very, very good.
He's also an excellent athlete who can play above the
(05:48):
rim and in transition, he's a substantial athletic upgrade on
the perimeter. And he's twenty five years old, meaning he
matches with Luca's timeline. I think he's a guy like
if the Pacers came out the gates this year and
they really struggled, and they realized they were further away
than where they needed to be to get to where
they want to go, if they decided to start getting
off of some of their money for asset return, he's
(06:10):
the kind of guy that I would be going after.
The question is if that happens, will the Lakers be
willing to put their first round pick on the table,
And I don't think they will. I think they'll try
to save it for Giannis, and I think that would
be a mistake. We haven't talked enough about this, but
to me, Luca is unique in the sense that I
(06:31):
think he benefits. I think he would benefit from a
secondary superstar less than other superstars would benefit from a
secondary superstar. Why. Because Luca's skill set is so uniquely
geared towards that advantage creation piece. There's a reason why
Luca has been on like dead serious championship contenders with
(06:56):
Jalen Brunson as his secondary shot creator or with Kyrie
or as a secondary shot creator, because Luca is so
good at eating up so much usage that when it
comes to having a super high powered offensive star next
to him, there's just a little bit of a diminishing
return there. I've talked about this before. I think a
team with Luca and Nikola Jokic on the team would
(07:16):
probably struggle because there'd be massive diminishing returns in terms
of their offensive shot creation, and because they're both such
poor athletes relative to the rest of the league that
it just would make for a really slow team that
would be very vulnerable to certain types of matchups. Luca
and Giannis there's a little bit more utility, although I'd
argue there's still some diminishing return there. With Luca, I
(07:39):
think it actually makes the most sense to build a
team that is stacked with high level role player talent
and a guy, a guy that can mimic what Luca
does to a lower extent against lesser talent and bench groups,
or in the second half of possessions as like a
second side guy. That is why Kyrie looked so good there.
(08:00):
That is why Jalen Brunson looks so good there. I
even think Austin could work. Austin's lesser athleticism is a
little bit more of an issue, but I think even
with Austin it could work as long as all of
the rest of the roster is stacked with athleticism. I
think really with Austin, the bigger issue is is he
as reliable getting separation against elite playoff defenders as Jalen
(08:25):
Brunson was or as Kyrie Irving was. But like with Luca,
I think it's more about finding just a guy who
can be that secondary shot creator and then stacking him
up with reliable role player talent. That's what I think
you need to do to build around Luka Doncic, and
I just don't think the Lakers see it that way.
I think the Lakers look at it as like how
do we be fun and competitive for a few years
(08:46):
while we stack up assets to go after Giannis And
I just don't necessarily think that's the best pathway again,
And you know, Lakers fans have said this to me before.
They go, well, Jason, that's how they've done it in
the past, And you're not entirely wrong, right Like, you
go get a Anthony Davis alongside Lebron James, for example,
But I would argue, like, look at pau Gasol with
respect to Kobe. Pagasol was a star, but he was
(09:09):
a lower level star. He was not a guy that
we were considering to be one of the top three
or four players in the NBA, right Like. He was
just a guy that could provide the specific type of
support that Kobe needed, and then a bunch of really
good role player talent around them. That, to me, is
the construct. It's not about going after the Yannis. It's
about finding the guy that can be the next Jalen
(09:30):
Brunson slash Kyrie Irving as that supporting offensive piece and
then anchoring him with rock solid two way athletes at
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co slash audio. Hi Jason, A huge fan and I
(11:20):
love the work. I have two questions, so hopefully you'll
answer at least one in your time As an NBA fan,
is there anyone you kind of root for or still
believe in that hasn't really panned out or that you're
just a fan of that's a little lesser known to
the casual fan. A few of mine are Cam Reddish
Collinsects and Lonzo Ball. My second question is who's your
favorite what if? As far as injured players, of course,
(11:43):
there's obvious ones like Derek Rose, John Wall, the person
at the top of my wish list that they never
got injured as Victor Oladipo. So I actually have the
same answer for both of your questions for who is
a player that I've rooted for that just hasn't panned
out and is who one of my biggest like injury
was wasfs. But before we get there, I did like
you bringing up Victor Oladipo. Victor Oladipo is a big
(12:06):
one for sure, and I remember that first round playoff
series against the Calves in twenty eighteen was kind of
the peak of Victor Oladipo in terms of like just
that sheer combination of downhill force with pull up shooting
and his jump shot kind of abandoned him a little
bit in that series and that ended up being the
biggest issue for him in terms of them being able
(12:27):
to beat a kind of limited Calves team. But the
athleticism was so crazy. Those of you guys who remember,
like he dunked on Lebron in that series, but he
had a missed dunk on Lebron in that series that
was even crazier than the mad dunk that he had,
and it was because he was just getting off the
bounce and just was nuclear off the floor when he
would elevate off of that left right takeoff and he
(12:50):
just could dunk on anybody had the crazy off the
dribble shooting to tie it all together. Victor O Ladipo
before his knee went, was a really really exciting player.
The guy that is that's my answer for the you
know kind of the player has it really panned out?
And my biggest injury what if is Brandon Ingram. Brandon
Ingram has become a guy that has just disappeared into
(13:10):
the morass of stars that are in that like twentieth
to forty fifth best player in the league that are
just kind of generally everyone just kind of is indifferent
towards And to me, that mostly comes down to his injuries.
Brandon has been incapable of staying on the floor, mainly
because of ankle issues over the years. And when Brandon
(13:31):
is healthy and in rhythm, like when he is playing
fifty straight games and consistently like available and not dealing
with nagging stuff, and he's got his athletic pop and
he's got his rhythm and flow, I think he's a
better passer than many of the forwards that he's played
that he's that have competed with him at like star
(13:53):
forwards around the guys like Paul George, you know, guys
like guys like Kevin Durant, Jason Tatum. Like, actually think
Brandon Ingram is a very gifted playmaker out of high
pick and roll, and I think he's got that like
kind of surgical mid range scoring piece. I think Brandon Ingram,
if things go right for him, can still be, you know,
(14:14):
like a third team All NBA type of player in
the NBA. He just hasn't been able to stay healthy
long enough to put all of that together, and so
you know, he may never and it may just be
the biggest what if you know from his career is
what it might have been like if he was able
to stay healthy. But I'm a big believer in Brandon Ingram.
When he's healthy, I think he can be a very very,
very very good basketball player. Have you seen a difference
(14:37):
in team construction inspired by Indiana and okc's final runs
this offseason? Not really. I think if anything, teams are
looking to go to opposite direction by getting bigger and
stronger on the front line as kind of like a
counter to what the thunder do or to match up
better with Jokic. But part of the issue there is
real useful perimeter athletes that can dribble, shoot, pass, and
(14:58):
defend are pretty rare and they're expensive when you find them.
If I had to compliment three teams over the last
couple of off seasons that have indexed in the right
direction in terms of that perimeter type of play, I'd
say Golden State, Atlanta, and the Los Angeles Clippers. But
Golden State is on the margins. They just continue to
find these useful guys like Gui Santos and Pat Spencer
(15:22):
and Brandon Pajemski even to a certain extent, as like
these guys that are are just really good at a
lot of stuff and athletic for their position, and it
just kind of like makes them useful. And there's just
a lot of utility in the modern NBA, especially with
a good coach that can set guys up with advantages
if you have that skill set. And I think Golden State,
(15:42):
despite never being able to surround Steph with a legit
secondary star until Jimmy Butler, I think they've done pretty
well on the margins and it's kept them competitive in
that regard. With Atlanta, it's their new core Jalen Johnson,
Zachary Risachet, Dyson Daniels, and Nikhil Alexander Walker, all guys
that they've obtained over the course of the last couple
of seas. And with the Clippers, it was more last
offseason with the moves for Derek Jones Junior and Chris Dunn,
(16:04):
which I think we're really really smart, savvy moves on
the margins that really like more than replaced improved on
a max salary slot in Paul George because of the
way that they can be useful in the modern NBA.
As a Celtics fan, I'm currently working on a video
video going over the most frustrating losses of the Tatum
(16:25):
and Brown era. A few that will definitely be included
will be the twenty twenty two Game five versus Milwaukee,
twenty twenty two Game four versus Golden State, twenty twenty
five Games one and two versus the Knicks, et cetera.
From your own viewing experience, do you have any games
in particular that still break your heart to think about
as a Lebron fan. I'd imagine either the Jamal Murray
(16:46):
game winners in twenty twenty four or Game one of
the twenty eighteen Finals that come to mind, But I'm
curious if there's anything else that resonated with you. So eighteen,
the twenty eighteen NBA Finals Game one obviously is a
big one. Not even you know, I didn't think the
Calves would have had any chance to win that series.
The talent gap was too massive, Like even if they
won game won, the Warriors would have just won the
(17:07):
next four games. But it just was I just was
discouraged in the sense that I thought Lebron deserved to
win that game. I thought he was the best player
on the floor by a mile, and I thought he
played well enough to get the job done, and just
everything went wrong down the stretch. A lot of people
don't remember this, but there was this bizarre overturned block
charge call at the end of that game where Lebron
(17:28):
took a charge on KD and in an era where
we didn't even have video review or challenges, they just
like went to the monitor and overturned the block charge
call and gave KD two points, which is like bizarre,
even regardless of what you think about the call, it
just was a bizarre sequence that went against Lebron in
that moment, the miss free throw from George Hill j R.
(17:49):
Smith forgetting the score. There was just like so many
things that went against him and that ended up sending
the game to overtime, and he just played well enough
to win that game, and I think he should have deserved.
He deserved that moment, even if the Cavs had no
chance of winning that series with the jamal game winners.
It's really the first one, not the one in Game five.
If you guys remember, the Nuggets scored on nine of
(18:11):
their last ten possessions in that game, including some wild
plays like that weird transition sequence where the ball almost
got turned over out of bounds, but Aaron Gordon saved
it to Michael Porter Junior at the right wing and
he hit like a contested crazy leg kicking three on
the right wing that went in. Lebron was amazing down
the stretch of that game and hit all of these
(18:33):
shots and got a big stealing dunk. That was the
one stop they got in the last ten possessions was
Lebron with the stealing dunk. And just in general, as
I look back at that series, I thought the Lakers
were much closer to winning that series than it looked
at just any chance they would have had to have
a big late series chance to win was taken away
by Jamal Murray hitting those two shots. And so obviously
(18:54):
those ones were tough. Game one or Game five of
the twenty fifteen Finals. A couple other ones that I
look at total roster mismatch, obviously with Kevin Love and
Kyrie Irving being down, But Lebron was just still so
good in that series that he was able to keep
the series super competitive, and a shot or two here
or there in one of those two games could have
(19:16):
swung it the other way and given Lebron one of
the more impressive titles in NBA history. Those are a
couple games that I look back on three more. The
majority of former NBA players, coaches, and execs believe Kobe
is the greatest player ever. What is it the Kobe
What is the Kobe goat case that most of the
media does not agree with. I believe it's because Kobe
(19:38):
lost three years buried on the bench, lost three prime
years with Kwame Brown in a few other years with
an old washed roster. Whenever given a good roster, he
went five to two in the Finals. First of all,
there are obviously some fans and some coaches and some
players that think that Kobe is the goat. But I
pushed back on the idea that the majority do. I
think the majority either thing. It's MJ or Lebron. I
(20:02):
have Kobe at three, but I think there's a gap
between the Lebron and MJ Tier one two and that
next tier that Kobe leads. The problem here is that
Kobe's just a lesser version of MJ. Like when we
argue about Lebron versus MJ, it's about the differences in
their games. It's like so much of what's in the
eye of the beholder, so to speak. Right, But like
Kobe was basically the same type of player that MJ was,
(20:25):
just not as good. I also think Lebron and MJ
were clearly the best players on all ten of their
championship runs. Now, I think Kobe was underrated in their
early two thousands. I think the idea that you could
just swap Kobe out with anybody and they'd win three
is misplaced. I think if you put a lesser star
in that spot, they probably still get one or two,
(20:46):
But them getting all three of those had a lot
to do with Kobe, and he was still remarkably valuable,
but obviously Shaquille O'Neil was the driving force behind those
title teams. I just think there's a clearly discernible gap
between where Kobe is in the top two guys, whereas
for Lebron and MJ it's so much up for debate
and there's not as much of that like discernible gap,
(21:08):
if that makes sense. Hi Jason, I love your podcast
and welcome to Denver. You've stated that Lebron James is
your favorite player of all time, and he has been
in the league for twenty plus years. I was wondering,
since you have such high regards for Nicola Jokic, if
he continues to play at the same level for the
next ten years, and I think that he will, can
he replace Lebron as your favorite player of all And
can Jokich not only be one of the best players
(21:29):
of all time, but in fact the best player of
all time. I don't think Jokic will ever replace Lebron
as like my favorite player, just simply because there's like
a youthful sentimental element to it, Like I fell in
love with basketball as a teenager, watching Lebron James. So
there's a sentimental element there that Jokic could never achieve
(21:55):
with a fan like me. Right, I've joked about it
on the show before, but when Lebron retires, I won't
have anybody really that I root for the way I've
rooted for Lebron, because I don't have a favorite team
in the NBA, and all these guys that I like
now I've grown to like them as just an adult
basketball fan, and so it's just a very different kind
of like emotional, sentimental type of feeling. As far as
(22:18):
Jokic entering into the Goat conversation, he just has so
much ground to make up in terms of team accomplishment. Now,
some of this is not fair because even amongst superstar
talent that we evaluate an NBA history, Jokic just had
it pretty rough with supporting talent. He's never played with
(22:38):
an All Star, he's never played with an All NBA player,
he's never played with an All defensive player. He's played
with a very very good group of role players. And like,
for instance, this team that he's going into this next
season with is the most talented roster Yokic has played
with and it's a very good team, but he's never
you know, like played with the player the likes of
Scottie Pippen or the likes of Anthony Davis or you know, uh,
(23:01):
Dwayne Wade or Shaquille O'Neal. For Kobe, like, he hasn't
had that type of top end supporting talent, and so
it's complicated. You can't just weigh team success evenly between
Yokic and other stars in NBA history. But even within
that context, one title is not going to get it done.
I think where it could get interesting for Yokich is
(23:22):
if he got like three and the three that he
got all were overcoming crazy difficulty, Like if he beat
Houston and Oklahoma City this year and you know Cleveland,
let's say out of the East, and it's like, holy shit,
that's one of the toughest titles ever. And then he
gets another one like that at some point, and like
(23:44):
he has like three with like four MVPs, and this extended,
like because he's already going into his fourth season as
like the definitive best player in the league. Let's say
that stretches to like seven or eight seasons. Now, it's like, man,
the last time we saw the only times in NBA
history we saw players be definitively the best player in
the league for that long would be Lebron and MJ
(24:05):
so like if he could, that's where it could be
more of a conversation that I think in order to
get into the goat conversation, at minimum he would need
two additional championships. All right, last question, Hi, Jason Fann
from Mongolia. Been a fan since the Lakers Tonight days,
even though I am a Warriors fan. I have a
mailbag for you. You often mentioned in all your all
time rankings about whether or not someone has been the
(24:27):
definitive best player in the league for a period of time,
which on the surface level makes sense, but if you
look a bit deeper. I don't know if you follow
football soccer, but the example of Messi and Ronaldo is
that neither of them were the definitive best player ever
more than a season or it was always debatable. Probably
only Messi in twenty twelve was definitive, and I would
(24:47):
say that they are the two best players to ever live.
How do you count for that? When you're talking about
players who were in the same age of Jordan or Lebron,
they would never have been the definitive best player because
of how great those two are. You know, I actually
look at the this is like a strength when I'm
talking about players, like I've talked about this with Steph,
like I talked about it earlier in the show. Like,
to me, Steph playing in Lebron's era and being as
(25:09):
close to him as he is is a big part
of why I have him over guys like Larry Bird
and higher up on the list, and a lot of
people rank Steph. I think ultimately what you're describing is
exactly why this is so subjective, you know. I one
of the tough things for me with Michael Jordan is
like there just wasn't that much talent in the league
when Michael Jordan was playing. The league was heavily deluded
(25:32):
by expansion over the course of the early nineties. You know,
the guys that we put up against mj in that era,
you know, guys like Clyde Drexler, guys like Charles Barkley,
they just they just aren't the same types of players
that we saw at the top of the league in
other eras. And by the way, like I know, Michael
was very young, but when the Bird and Magic were
(25:52):
at their peak. MJ wasn't winning titles, you know what
I mean, he won titles when those dudes aged out,
and there was kind of a talent void the top
of the league. But that's still purely subjective, Right, how
do you count for that? How do you count for
the gap that existed between you know, Lebron and Steph
and whether or not that that is something that should
(26:14):
penalize Steph or that should benefit Steph or penalize Lebron?
Like are we penalizing Lebron because he didn't build as
much of a gap when he's playing against superior talent
than MJ played against. Like, it's just it's just complicated
and it's subjective, and that's why, Like I'm gonna give
you guys my takes and I'm gonna break down my
reasoning for why I have a player here a player there.
(26:34):
But ultimately, this stuff is all subjective and it's about
what you believe. Like I have met Warriors fans who
sincerely believe that Steph Curry is the greatest basketball player
of all time. And I can't argue against that in
any sort of definitive way. I can argue against it
in a theoretical way. But I can't, Like, you can't
(26:56):
argue against any of this in a definitive way. There
are nuggets, fans you believe Nikola Jokic is the best
player to ever play. This is ultimately subjective, and that's
what makes it fun. My thing is like, let's just
keep it fun. Let's keep it fun, let's debate. Let's
prevent it from getting personal or mean, because none of
us are right. All of us just have our take.
You know. That's kind of the way that I look
at it. All right, guys, It's all I have for
(27:18):
today is always I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
us and supporting the show. We will be back on
Monday with more player rankings. I will see you, guys,
The volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at
the volume heavy Friday. Everybody, it is mail bag Day.
I'm very thankful for you guys for dropping questions in
(00:22):
the YouTube comments. We got some great questions today. Remember,
if you want to get your questions and the mail bags,
all you gotta do is go to our full episodes,
go into the comments, write mail bag with colon. Write
your question. That's how helps me find them in the
list of comments, and we will get to them on
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(00:44):
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Make sure you guys follow us there for more content
throughout the season and the last not least, Like I
mentioned off the top. Keep dropping those mailback questions in
the YouTube comments. All right, let's talk some basketball Off
(01:04):
the top a couple of questions regarding matchups for the Lakers.
First question, as currently constructed, how do you think this
roster of the Lakers would fare against the Minnesota Timberwolves
in a seven game series? So At, I foolishly came
up here before the first round matchup last year and
(01:26):
said that the Wolves were the best possible matchup for
the Lakers, and I could not have been more wrong.
They were the worst possible matchup for the Lakers because
of the massive gap in their athleticism and because of
their ability to switch everything and make life harder on
the Lakers ball handlers. They specifically played Austin Reeves into
the worst playoff series of his young career. They wore
(01:48):
Luka Doncic down over the course of games, and he
was brutal in fourth quarters. It just it was just
too much for them to handle. That said, as is
always the case, these series are closer than they look. Right,
just because the Wolves were a bad matchup for the
Lakers doesn't mean the Lakers had no shot. They were
there in Game three, they were there in Game four,
you win one of those games, it could potentially look
(02:10):
like a different series. I still think even after the
addition of Marcus Smart and Deandrayton, the Wolves are still
a bad matchup for the Lakers for the exact same reasons,
but the Lakers are deeper now. The Lakers lost that
series if you guys remember in fourth quarters running out
of gas at the end of games, so improved depth
(02:31):
obviously gives them a better shot. I also think an
improved Luca gives them a better shot. So in short,
I think the Lakers have a better chance to beat
Minnesota this year than last year, but I would still
much rather avoid them in the bracket all together because
I still think it's a very bad matchup for them.
Next question, mail bag Nuggets in five. The Lakers don't
(02:53):
have the size. This team isn't beating the Nuggets. I
actually think the Lakers matchup pretty well with Denver for
one reason. The Nuggets are absolutely hopeless to guard Luka
doncicin pick and roll, as we saw when they faced
off last year and periodically throughout Luka Doncic's matchups with
Jokic over the years. He's his ability to pull Jokich
up to the level, but then surgically make every read.
(03:16):
It just breaks Denver's defense. Now, the Nuggets are much
better this year than they were last year, So at
this point I would still pick the Nuggets to beat
the Lakers in a series. But I think the Lakers
have a puncher's chance to upset Denver because of Lucas's
specific ability to pick their defensive defensive part. Another Lakers question,
(03:39):
UK listener here love the pod. What's the trade you
think another team would do centered around Ruy or Austin?
I guess right now rather than at the trade deadline,
that could significantly improve the Lakers and their athleticism without
surrendering Polinka's beloved post Lebron picks. I do think and
Andrew Wiggins trade would immediately make the Lakers a top
(04:00):
tier contender. He would immediately address their athleticism and defense needs.
He specifically, in my opinion, as one of like the
top tier, if not second or second tier to top
tier somewhere in that rain one of the top ten,
like Apex defenders that you can put on an opposing
star in a playoff series, and he can do it
against multiple different types of stars. I also think he
(04:21):
just makes a substantial upgrade in athleticism, which is what
they would need. I also think he would play really
well offensively off of Luca, and I think the Lakers
could pull off that trade, including Dalton and maybe some
second round compensation and not having to include their first
round pick. But the Lakers seem uninterested in making that
type of deal because of Andrew's age and because of
(04:42):
their timeline without Wiggins if we take him out of
the equation. I don't see a move this summer like
that's readily available right now that the Lakers could make
that would immediately vault them up in terms of their
athleticism and their ability to contend for a title this season.
I don't see it right now. The question for me
(05:03):
is more whether or not in the regular season call
it at the deadline. If this opportunity to present it itself,
would the Lakers jump on it? And I don't think
they will. I think they'll hold on, and that is
the part that concerns me. I'll give you an example.
Aaron Nesmith, the player I've talked about quite a bit.
I think Aaron is quite literally exactly what the Lakers need.
(05:25):
He's a versatile point of attack defender that has the
strength to guard multiple positions. He's an excellent three point
shooter and also an excellent closeout attacker. Just in the
playoffs last year, he converted spot up opportunities at one
point two to one points per possession. That's very, very good.
He's also an excellent athlete who can play above the
(05:48):
rim and in transition, he's a substantial athletic upgrade on
the perimeter. And he's twenty five years old, meaning he
matches with Luca's timeline. I think he's a guy like
if the Pacers came out the gates this year and
they really struggled, and they realized they were further away
than where they needed to be to get to where
they want to go, if they decided to start getting
off of some of their money for asset return, he's
(06:10):
the kind of guy that I would be going after.
The question is if that happens, will the Lakers be
willing to put their first round pick on the table,
And I don't think they will. I think they'll try
to save it for Giannis, and I think that would
be a mistake. We haven't talked enough about this, but
to me, Luca is unique in the sense that I
(06:31):
think he benefits. I think he would benefit from a
secondary superstar less than other superstars would benefit from a
secondary superstar. Why. Because Luca's skill set is so uniquely
geared towards that advantage creation piece. There's a reason why
Luca has been on like dead serious championship contenders with
(06:56):
Jalen Brunson as his secondary shot creator or with Kyrie
or as a secondary shot creator, because Luca is so
good at eating up so much usage that when it
comes to having a super high powered offensive star next
to him, there's just a little bit of a diminishing
return there. I've talked about this before. I think a
team with Luca and Nikola Jokic on the team would
(07:16):
probably struggle because there'd be massive diminishing returns in terms
of their offensive shot creation, and because they're both such
poor athletes relative to the rest of the league that
it just would make for a really slow team that
would be very vulnerable to certain types of matchups. Luca
and Giannis there's a little bit more utility, although I'd
argue there's still some diminishing return there. With Luca, I
(07:39):
think it actually makes the most sense to build a
team that is stacked with high level role player talent
and a guy, a guy that can mimic what Luca
does to a lower extent against lesser talent and bench groups,
or in the second half of possessions as like a
second side guy. That is why Kyrie looked so good there.
(08:00):
That is why Jalen Brunson looks so good there. I
even think Austin could work. Austin's lesser athleticism is a
little bit more of an issue, but I think even
with Austin it could work as long as all of
the rest of the roster is stacked with athleticism. I
think really with Austin, the bigger issue is is he
as reliable getting separation against elite playoff defenders as Jalen
(08:25):
Brunson was or as Kyrie Irving was. But like with Luca,
I think it's more about finding just a guy who
can be that secondary shot creator and then stacking him
up with reliable role player talent. That's what I think
you need to do to build around Luka Doncic, and
I just don't think the Lakers see it that way.
I think the Lakers look at it as like how
do we be fun and competitive for a few years
(08:46):
while we stack up assets to go after Giannis And
I just don't necessarily think that's the best pathway again,
And you know, Lakers fans have said this to me before.
They go, well, Jason, that's how they've done it in
the past, And you're not entirely wrong, right Like, you
go get a Anthony Davis alongside Lebron James, for example,
But I would argue, like, look at pau Gasol with
respect to Kobe. Pagasol was a star, but he was
(09:09):
a lower level star. He was not a guy that
we were considering to be one of the top three
or four players in the NBA, right Like. He was
just a guy that could provide the specific type of
support that Kobe needed, and then a bunch of really
good role player talent around them. That, to me, is
the construct. It's not about going after the Yannis. It's
about finding the guy that can be the next Jalen
(09:30):
Brunson slash Kyrie Irving as that supporting offensive piece and
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co slash audio. Hi Jason, A huge fan and I
(11:20):
love the work. I have two questions, so hopefully you'll
answer at least one in your time As an NBA fan,
is there anyone you kind of root for or still
believe in that hasn't really panned out or that you're
just a fan of that's a little lesser known to
the casual fan. A few of mine are Cam Reddish
Collinsects and Lonzo Ball. My second question is who's your
favorite what if? As far as injured players, of course,
(11:43):
there's obvious ones like Derek Rose, John Wall, the person
at the top of my wish list that they never
got injured as Victor Oladipo. So I actually have the
same answer for both of your questions for who is
a player that I've rooted for that just hasn't panned
out and is who one of my biggest like injury
was wasfs. But before we get there, I did like
you bringing up Victor Oladipo. Victor Oladipo is a big
(12:06):
one for sure, and I remember that first round playoff
series against the Calves in twenty eighteen was kind of
the peak of Victor Oladipo in terms of like just
that sheer combination of downhill force with pull up shooting
and his jump shot kind of abandoned him a little
bit in that series and that ended up being the
biggest issue for him in terms of them being able
(12:27):
to beat a kind of limited Calves team. But the
athleticism was so crazy. Those of you guys who remember,
like he dunked on Lebron in that series, but he
had a missed dunk on Lebron in that series that
was even crazier than the mad dunk that he had,
and it was because he was just getting off the
bounce and just was nuclear off the floor when he
would elevate off of that left right takeoff and he
(12:50):
just could dunk on anybody had the crazy off the
dribble shooting to tie it all together. Victor O Ladipo
before his knee went, was a really really exciting player.
The guy that is that's my answer for the you
know kind of the player has it really panned out?
And my biggest injury what if is Brandon Ingram. Brandon
Ingram has become a guy that has just disappeared into
(13:10):
the morass of stars that are in that like twentieth
to forty fifth best player in the league that are
just kind of generally everyone just kind of is indifferent
towards And to me, that mostly comes down to his injuries.
Brandon has been incapable of staying on the floor, mainly
because of ankle issues over the years. And when Brandon
(13:31):
is healthy and in rhythm, like when he is playing
fifty straight games and consistently like available and not dealing
with nagging stuff, and he's got his athletic pop and
he's got his rhythm and flow, I think he's a
better passer than many of the forwards that he's played
that he's that have competed with him at like star
(13:53):
forwards around the guys like Paul George, you know, guys
like guys like Kevin Durant, Jason Tatum. Like, actually think
Brandon Ingram is a very gifted playmaker out of high
pick and roll, and I think he's got that like
kind of surgical mid range scoring piece. I think Brandon Ingram,
if things go right for him, can still be, you know,
(14:14):
like a third team All NBA type of player in
the NBA. He just hasn't been able to stay healthy
long enough to put all of that together, and so
you know, he may never and it may just be
the biggest what if you know from his career is
what it might have been like if he was able
to stay healthy. But I'm a big believer in Brandon Ingram.
When he's healthy, I think he can be a very very,
very very good basketball player. Have you seen a difference
(14:37):
in team construction inspired by Indiana and okc's final runs
this offseason? Not really. I think if anything, teams are
looking to go to opposite direction by getting bigger and
stronger on the front line as kind of like a
counter to what the thunder do or to match up
better with Jokic. But part of the issue there is
real useful perimeter athletes that can dribble, shoot, pass, and
(14:58):
defend are pretty rare and they're expensive when you find them.
If I had to compliment three teams over the last
couple of off seasons that have indexed in the right
direction in terms of that perimeter type of play, I'd
say Golden State, Atlanta, and the Los Angeles Clippers. But
Golden State is on the margins. They just continue to
find these useful guys like Gui Santos and Pat Spencer
(15:22):
and Brandon Pajemski even to a certain extent, as like
these guys that are are just really good at a
lot of stuff and athletic for their position, and it
just kind of like makes them useful. And there's just
a lot of utility in the modern NBA, especially with
a good coach that can set guys up with advantages
if you have that skill set. And I think Golden State,
(15:42):
despite never being able to surround Steph with a legit
secondary star until Jimmy Butler, I think they've done pretty
well on the margins and it's kept them competitive in
that regard. With Atlanta, it's their new core Jalen Johnson,
Zachary Risachet, Dyson Daniels, and Nikhil Alexander Walker, all guys
that they've obtained over the course of the last couple
of seas. And with the Clippers, it was more last
offseason with the moves for Derek Jones Junior and Chris Dunn,
(16:04):
which I think we're really really smart, savvy moves on
the margins that really like more than replaced improved on
a max salary slot in Paul George because of the
way that they can be useful in the modern NBA.
As a Celtics fan, I'm currently working on a video
video going over the most frustrating losses of the Tatum
(16:25):
and Brown era. A few that will definitely be included
will be the twenty twenty two Game five versus Milwaukee,
twenty twenty two Game four versus Golden State, twenty twenty
five Games one and two versus the Knicks, et cetera.
From your own viewing experience, do you have any games
in particular that still break your heart to think about
as a Lebron fan. I'd imagine either the Jamal Murray
(16:46):
game winners in twenty twenty four or Game one of
the twenty eighteen Finals that come to mind, But I'm
curious if there's anything else that resonated with you. So eighteen,
the twenty eighteen NBA Finals Game one obviously is a
big one. Not even you know, I didn't think the
Calves would have had any chance to win that series.
The talent gap was too massive, Like even if they
won game won, the Warriors would have just won the
(17:07):
next four games. But it just was I just was
discouraged in the sense that I thought Lebron deserved to
win that game. I thought he was the best player
on the floor by a mile, and I thought he
played well enough to get the job done, and just
everything went wrong down the stretch. A lot of people
don't remember this, but there was this bizarre overturned block
charge call at the end of that game where Lebron
(17:28):
took a charge on KD and in an era where
we didn't even have video review or challenges, they just
like went to the monitor and overturned the block charge
call and gave KD two points, which is like bizarre,
even regardless of what you think about the call, it
just was a bizarre sequence that went against Lebron in
that moment, the miss free throw from George Hill j R.
(17:49):
Smith forgetting the score. There was just like so many
things that went against him and that ended up sending
the game to overtime, and he just played well enough
to win that game, and I think he should have deserved.
He deserved that moment, even if the Cavs had no
chance of winning that series with the jamal game winners.
It's really the first one, not the one in Game five.
If you guys remember, the Nuggets scored on nine of
(18:11):
their last ten possessions in that game, including some wild
plays like that weird transition sequence where the ball almost
got turned over out of bounds, but Aaron Gordon saved
it to Michael Porter Junior at the right wing and
he hit like a contested crazy leg kicking three on
the right wing that went in. Lebron was amazing down
the stretch of that game and hit all of these
(18:33):
shots and got a big stealing dunk. That was the
one stop they got in the last ten possessions was
Lebron with the stealing dunk. And just in general, as
I look back at that series, I thought the Lakers
were much closer to winning that series than it looked
at just any chance they would have had to have
a big late series chance to win was taken away
by Jamal Murray hitting those two shots. And so obviously
(18:54):
those ones were tough. Game one or Game five of
the twenty fifteen Finals. A couple other ones that I
look at total roster mismatch, obviously with Kevin Love and
Kyrie Irving being down, But Lebron was just still so
good in that series that he was able to keep
the series super competitive, and a shot or two here
or there in one of those two games could have
(19:16):
swung it the other way and given Lebron one of
the more impressive titles in NBA history. Those are a
couple games that I look back on three more. The
majority of former NBA players, coaches, and execs believe Kobe
is the greatest player ever. What is it the Kobe
What is the Kobe goat case that most of the
media does not agree with. I believe it's because Kobe
(19:38):
lost three years buried on the bench, lost three prime
years with Kwame Brown in a few other years with
an old washed roster. Whenever given a good roster, he
went five to two in the Finals. First of all,
there are obviously some fans and some coaches and some
players that think that Kobe is the goat. But I
pushed back on the idea that the majority do. I
think the majority either thing. It's MJ or Lebron. I
(20:02):
have Kobe at three, but I think there's a gap
between the Lebron and MJ Tier one two and that
next tier that Kobe leads. The problem here is that
Kobe's just a lesser version of MJ. Like when we
argue about Lebron versus MJ, it's about the differences in
their games. It's like so much of what's in the
eye of the beholder, so to speak. Right, But like
Kobe was basically the same type of player that MJ was,
(20:25):
just not as good. I also think Lebron and MJ
were clearly the best players on all ten of their
championship runs. Now, I think Kobe was underrated in their
early two thousands. I think the idea that you could
just swap Kobe out with anybody and they'd win three
is misplaced. I think if you put a lesser star
in that spot, they probably still get one or two,
(20:46):
But them getting all three of those had a lot
to do with Kobe, and he was still remarkably valuable,
but obviously Shaquille O'Neil was the driving force behind those
title teams. I just think there's a clearly discernible gap
between where Kobe is in the top two guys, whereas
for Lebron and MJ it's so much up for debate
and there's not as much of that like discernible gap,
(21:08):
if that makes sense. Hi Jason, I love your podcast
and welcome to Denver. You've stated that Lebron James is
your favorite player of all time, and he has been
in the league for twenty plus years. I was wondering,
since you have such high regards for Nicola Jokic, if
he continues to play at the same level for the
next ten years, and I think that he will, can
he replace Lebron as your favorite player of all And
can Jokich not only be one of the best players
(21:29):
of all time, but in fact the best player of
all time. I don't think Jokic will ever replace Lebron
as like my favorite player, just simply because there's like
a youthful sentimental element to it, Like I fell in
love with basketball as a teenager, watching Lebron James. So
there's a sentimental element there that Jokic could never achieve
(21:55):
with a fan like me. Right, I've joked about it
on the show before, but when Lebron retires, I won't
have anybody really that I root for the way I've
rooted for Lebron, because I don't have a favorite team
in the NBA, and all these guys that I like
now I've grown to like them as just an adult
basketball fan, and so it's just a very different kind
of like emotional, sentimental type of feeling. As far as
(22:18):
Jokic entering into the Goat conversation, he just has so
much ground to make up in terms of team accomplishment. Now,
some of this is not fair because even amongst superstar
talent that we evaluate an NBA history, Jokic just had
it pretty rough with supporting talent. He's never played with
(22:38):
an All Star, he's never played with an All NBA player,
he's never played with an All defensive player. He's played
with a very very good group of role players. And like,
for instance, this team that he's going into this next
season with is the most talented roster Yokic has played
with and it's a very good team, but he's never
you know, like played with the player the likes of
Scottie Pippen or the likes of Anthony Davis or you know, uh,
(23:01):
Dwayne Wade or Shaquille O'Neal. For Kobe, like, he hasn't
had that type of top end supporting talent, and so
it's complicated. You can't just weigh team success evenly between
Yokic and other stars in NBA history. But even within
that context, one title is not going to get it done.
I think where it could get interesting for Yokich is
(23:22):
if he got like three and the three that he
got all were overcoming crazy difficulty, Like if he beat
Houston and Oklahoma City this year and you know Cleveland,
let's say out of the East, and it's like, holy shit,
that's one of the toughest titles ever. And then he
gets another one like that at some point, and like
(23:44):
he has like three with like four MVPs, and this extended,
like because he's already going into his fourth season as
like the definitive best player in the league. Let's say
that stretches to like seven or eight seasons. Now, it's like, man,
the last time we saw the only times in NBA
history we saw players be definitively the best player in
the league for that long would be Lebron and MJ
(24:05):
so like if he could, that's where it could be
more of a conversation that I think in order to
get into the goat conversation, at minimum he would need
two additional championships. All right, last question, Hi, Jason Fann
from Mongolia. Been a fan since the Lakers Tonight days,
even though I am a Warriors fan. I have a
mailbag for you. You often mentioned in all your all
time rankings about whether or not someone has been the
(24:27):
definitive best player in the league for a period of time,
which on the surface level makes sense, but if you
look a bit deeper. I don't know if you follow
football soccer, but the example of Messi and Ronaldo is
that neither of them were the definitive best player ever
more than a season or it was always debatable. Probably
only Messi in twenty twelve was definitive, and I would
(24:47):
say that they are the two best players to ever live.
How do you count for that? When you're talking about
players who were in the same age of Jordan or Lebron,
they would never have been the definitive best player because
of how great those two are. You know, I actually
look at the this is like a strength when I'm
talking about players, like I've talked about this with Steph,
like I talked about it earlier in the show. Like,
to me, Steph playing in Lebron's era and being as
(25:09):
close to him as he is is a big part
of why I have him over guys like Larry Bird
and higher up on the list, and a lot of
people rank Steph. I think ultimately what you're describing is
exactly why this is so subjective, you know. I one
of the tough things for me with Michael Jordan is
like there just wasn't that much talent in the league
when Michael Jordan was playing. The league was heavily deluded
(25:32):
by expansion over the course of the early nineties. You know,
the guys that we put up against mj in that era,
you know, guys like Clyde Drexler, guys like Charles Barkley,
they just they just aren't the same types of players
that we saw at the top of the league in
other eras. And by the way, like I know, Michael
was very young, but when the Bird and Magic were
(25:52):
at their peak. MJ wasn't winning titles, you know what
I mean, he won titles when those dudes aged out,
and there was kind of a talent void the top
of the league. But that's still purely subjective, Right, how
do you count for that? How do you count for
the gap that existed between you know, Lebron and Steph
and whether or not that that is something that should
(26:14):
penalize Steph or that should benefit Steph or penalize Lebron?
Like are we penalizing Lebron because he didn't build as
much of a gap when he's playing against superior talent
than MJ played against. Like, it's just it's just complicated
and it's subjective, and that's why, Like I'm gonna give
you guys my takes and I'm gonna break down my
reasoning for why I have a player here a player there.
(26:34):
But ultimately, this stuff is all subjective and it's about
what you believe. Like I have met Warriors fans who
sincerely believe that Steph Curry is the greatest basketball player
of all time. And I can't argue against that in
any sort of definitive way. I can argue against it
in a theoretical way. But I can't, Like, you can't
(26:56):
argue against any of this in a definitive way. There
are nuggets, fans you believe Nikola Jokic is the best
player to ever play. This is ultimately subjective, and that's
what makes it fun. My thing is like, let's just
keep it fun. Let's keep it fun, let's debate. Let's
prevent it from getting personal or mean, because none of
us are right. All of us just have our take.
You know. That's kind of the way that I look
at it. All right, guys, It's all I have for
(27:18):
today is always I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
us and supporting the show. We will be back on
Monday with more player rankings. I will see you, guys,
Host
Jason Timpf
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