August 15, 2025 • 30 mins
Jason answers mailbag questions about his NBA player rankings list on topics such as Cleveland Cavaliers forward Evan Mobley vs. Los Angeles Clippers guard James Harden, potential trades for Miami Heat center Bam Adebayo, why New York Knicks center Karl-Anthony Towns didn't crack the top 25, explaining the rank of Oklahoma City Thunder wing Jalen Williams, Jimmy Butler vs. Pascal Siakam, different versions in the career of Golden State Warriors guard Steph Curry, and more.
#Volume
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, well, good to Hoops tonight. You're
at the volume. Happy Friday, everybody, Oh bove you guys
are having a great week. Today is our next mail
bag geared around player rankings again. Remember, if you guys
(00:23):
want to disagree or argue anything in the player rankings,
a player too high, players too low, players should be
on the list, player shouldn't be on the list. Anything
you want to get into surrounding the player rankings, make
sure you drop the mail bag questions in our full episodes.
Put mail bag colon, write what you disagree with, write
an elevator, pitch a quick concise version of why you disagree,
and we will get to them in our mail bags
(00:45):
throughout the rest of this player ranking series. You guys
know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to Hoops
and Not YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of
our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore JSNLTS. You
guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast
fee wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson iss soon great work on
our social media feeds, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make
sure you guys follow us there. The last, but not least,
(01:05):
Like I mentioned earlier, just keep dropping those mail bag
questions in the YouTube comments. All right, let's talk some basketball.
First question, Hi, Jason, love your analysis that's helped me
understand the game on a deeper level. I would like
to ask what is the thought process behind ranking a
player like Mobili higher than Harden. I get the low
results of Harden during the playoffs, but isn't he fundamentally
(01:26):
a much more impactful player than Mobii. Imagine a scenario
where you were GM and you should begin a franchise
around either of those two with the upcoming year. Isn't
Harden's floor raising elite advantage creation a more significant asset
that could help build a team around him with smaller
and more achievable roles. Or would you compare them strictly
as number twos? So this is where it gets tricky.
(01:49):
I do view advantage creation as a more valuable trait,
the probably the most valuable individual trait that a basketball
player can have. The problem is is there's tears to it. So,
for instance, I think there are guys that can provide
a rough facsimile of advantage creation. Think like, uh, you
(02:09):
know D'Angelo Russell or like this version of Chris Paul
at his age, but like, I don't think either of
those guys can do it at the volume necessary to
do what a regular season team needs for eighty two
games to be like a good offense. Right. Then there's
like the tier above that which James Harden is in,
which is like, this is the group of guys that
(02:31):
are capable of creating advantages at a high level in
a regular season context and give you a certain floor
in the regular season, but it just doesn't translate the
way it needs to in big moments and big games
the way that it needs to to be reliable in
that setting, and that kind of cuts it off at
a certain point. Then there's like this next tier, and
(02:52):
this is where you're looking at the Tyrese Haliburton on
the low end and like the Luka Doncic I should
say Tyre's Haliburton Lebron type guys on the low end,
and then on the high end guys like Luca Nikolea Jokich,
so on and so forth, where it's like they can
give you this super high regular season offensive floor, and
they give you this certain amount of reliability when they
get into the postseason. And so again, like James Harden's
(03:15):
advantage creation is gonna give him an edge over a
lot of the guys that I had below him among
that tier. But once we enter into additional tiers of
like what I'm trying to accomplish, Like if I'm trying
to accomplish a championship this year, if I have Harden
as my best player on one hand, and I have
Mobley as my best player on the other hand, I'm
(03:37):
not winning a championship with either of them. Yeah, Harden's
gonna give me a better offense, probably gonna win more
regular season games. I'm almost certainly gonna win more regular
season games, But like, neither of them are getting me
a championship. We're looking at it in the context of like,
when I'm trying to reach that ultimate goal, Evan Mobley
(03:57):
as my second best player, I feel like I have
a better chance to win the title then James Harden
as my second best player. James Harden's skill set is
incredibly valuable. It's why he deserves the paycheck that he
gets for the record. As I said, in the beginning
of our list, each of the top forty players in
the NBA I think are worthy of the salaries that
(04:19):
they're on. A lot of people are freaking out that
Dearon Fox makes as much money as he makes. When
you really think about a guy who reliably gets to
the rim, that can knock down a lot of high
level shots in the mid range, who's like a very
good clutch player and is a good forward, aggressive, turnover
forcing defensive playmaker. To me, Daron Fox kind of fits
the criteria of a max level player. Now we can
argue about whether or not those fifty million dollar contracts
(04:42):
can hamstring teams, but the truth is is that as
the cap goes higher and higher with the new TV deal,
a guy like Darren Fox brings a lot to the
table and he's worthy of the money that he makes.
To me. James Harden, who ranked twenty sixth on this list,
by the way, is an incredibly valuable regular season offensive engine,
but he runs into such a clear and defined ceiling,
(05:05):
I should say, a very low floor when he gets
into these big, big playoff moments that it's almost like
a disqualifier for me. Whereas Evan Mobley has so much
reliable night to night playoff impact that I feel like
with him I have a better chance as my number two.
But again, as we talked about, I'm not seeing a
massive gap there between where I have Mobley and where
(05:27):
I have Hardened. It's all relative to where the guys
are in that tier. Realistically, Bam seems to have shown
us his ceiling. An elite defender who can be a
key folkrum and a ball movement offense through dribble, handoffs
and playmaking, and can maybe provide further spacing if three
point shooting trends up, we should stop expecting him to
be a twenty plus point per game score. That being said,
(05:49):
Miami is not in a spot roster wise to showcase
all the elite tools that Bam does have on a
big playoff stage. If Bam does become available, where would
you like to see him go slash? Who has the
necessary assets? Where would he best fit and contribute most
to championship level basketball. That is a very good question,
and it's very well laid out in the sense that
I fundamentally agree with you that like BAM's specific trait,
(06:14):
his set of traits is so valuable, but not valuable
enough in the Miami scheme to be worth kind of
like tying your future around him, right. So I was
trying to think through what kind of teams would make
sense for a guy like Bam at a bio to
where he would come in and immediately be weaponized for
what he's great at and covered for what he's bad at,
(06:36):
and be able to lift a team to the next level.
And what I thought about was, it's got to be
a five out context. I don't think he has as
much value in a four out one in context, mainly
just because he's not the same vertical spacer as even
a guy like Evan Mobley, let alone some of the
guys that are above him on this list, right, And
so I think he's in his lack of finishing ability
in that short range lay up range, I think also
limit him as a four out one end player. So
(06:58):
like to me, he needs to be in a five
out offense where he's running dribble handoffs and being more
relied on as a screener decision maker at the top
of the key than a guy that's just being a
play finisher in the dunker spot. So that's the first
thing I'm looking at Secondly, I think he needs to
be surrounded by a lot of offensive talent. I think
he needs to be surrounded by guys that can do
the majority of the shot creation on the ball, so
(07:22):
that he's not dependent on in that regard at all,
and so that he can average fifteen points per game
and it not be something that is damaging to his team.
So that's kind of the set of situations that I
think makes the most sense. I put down five teams
that I think makes sense for Bam won the New
York Knicks. I think if he kind of filled into
that Isaiah Hartenstein role that he was in two years ago,
(07:44):
I think he'd do a wonderful job of that, running
those actions with Michale Bridges and Jalen Brunson out top
the backdoor cutting that's available in that offense, with the
just really smart offensive players that he's surrounded by, having
all that offensive firepower around him to kind of bolster
him in the way so that's not needed, but also
giving them a legitimate defensive anchor to make them a
(08:05):
viable playoff defense. I think Bam would be a fantastic
fit with the Knicks. To the Pacers just lost Miles Turner.
They have a gaping hole at that center spot, and
I can't think of a better five out big to
fit with the Tyrese Haliburton led offense and Andrew Nemhard
led offense than a guy like bam At a BIO.
I think he'd be awesome with the Indiana Pacers three
the Detroit Pistons. This is a team that they're kind
(08:27):
of on the fence about how they feel about their centers.
They're in this situation where they're about to have to
extend guys like Jalen Duran or decide whether or not
they want to invest in Isaiah Stewart, and they have
the assets to be able to pull off a move
like bringing a guy like bam At a Bio in
and be an interesting kind of veteran bet on a
guy like Ky Cunningham. I think that they're a little
(08:49):
bit more in that four out one in context, but
I think that they have the shooting talent with a
guy like Duncan Robinson and with Karris Lavert and his
ball handling, I think they could try to add more
or five out concepts, and I think bam could be
a guy that fits there reasonably well fourth the Golden
State Warriors. There's a pipe dream, but I can't think
of a guy who would fit better and a Steph
Curry led five out offense than a guy like BAM
(09:11):
at a bio obviously in a very high IQ defensive
playmaking type of group, I think he could be really useful.
Steve Kerr also loves to do a lot of switching,
which is something that Bam is particularly great at. And then, lastly,
the san Antonio Spurts. I think that he would compliment
a guy like Victor winbin Yama extremely well as a
more big, physical player that has the ability to put
(09:31):
Victor into some different defensive roles so that he doesn't
always have to be guarding ball screens, or he doesn't
always have to be guarding the Nicola Jokicic's of the world.
I think that san Antonio would be a really interesting
fit for a guy like BAM, and I also think
that Victor's kind of tendency to want to play more
like a wing on offense allows BAM to function more
as that dribble handoff fulkrim near the top of the key.
(09:52):
Next question, Jason Big fan of the show, Top two
hope shoot show period. Thank you so much for the
kind words, but I have to say not having Cat
top twenty five is insane. He was amazing offensively at
times and the best player on the floor at moments.
Throughout the playoffs. He's taken over multiple fourth quarters where
the defense literally can't stop him. How did Trey Young
make it over him? He's super inefficient and worse on
defense than Kat just by size alone. Side note, Kat
(10:14):
was a significantly better. It was significantly better than BAM
this season. Would love to hear a response, Have a
good one, my man, Keep doing your thing. This has
been the biggest thing that I struggle with that a
lot of people disagree with me, But like I view
there to be two different kinds of bad defenders. We
talked about this concept a lot before I went to Alaska.
There's bad defenders that are physically incapable of being great defenders,
(10:38):
and then there are defenders that are so sloppy in
the details and so prone to mistakes that they literally
become a death sentence for a defense. And to me,
Kat falls into that category. Kat is so incredibly mistake
prone he almost single handedly lost them Game six with
his reckless crashing, poor floor balance, and just getting outrun
(11:00):
up and down the floor because he just wasn't paying
attention to what he was needing to do, and several
other points throughout the season and throughout the postseason, his
really inconsistent hedges and shows, and his inability like committing
to one side of the ball screen before the ball
handler even has and just giving up easy drible penetration.
He is so mistake prone on defense that he's literally
(11:20):
impossible to build a good defense around. The only way
you can is by putting an excellent defensive center next
to him, like Minnesota did. That came with its own
limitations in terms of roster construction and the allocation of
resources when you need to cover for him by having
an excellent defensive center, which is going to cost you
thirty plus million dollars in the modern NBA. So I
(11:40):
kind of view him as like a fundamentally flawed player
to try to build a championship team around. If he's
a big that can't play center on a real defense
but makes over fifty million, it's just kind of like
a death sentence for me in that regard. I also
just think Tray is a much better offensive player than him.
And this really comes down to my biggest opinion, which
is that I value advantage creation in that offensive engine
(12:01):
piece more than I value like tip of the spear scoring.
And that's just more of a basketball philosophy thing of mine.
A lot of JDub stuff. Next question. I have trouble
accepting your JDub evaluation in general, but here I will
address the comparison to Butler. Let me first say, Jimmy
Butler is my favorite active player, even so he has
well passed his prime while Williams is ascending. Butler misses
(12:23):
games every season due to injury, and that's likely to
continue or even worsen this season. As you explain, Williams
should perform better this season because of maturation and health,
Butler has shown that he's no longer a consistent postseason performer,
which age does, whereas Williams just showed the opposite despite injury.
I get the whole young versuet thing, but Williams is
so good and Butler is old. I just can't see
(12:43):
how one can reasonably expect Butler to be a better
asset to a team across this upcoming season. And let's
not even talk about contracts. So first of all, Jimmy
just averaged nineteen seven and five in the postseason. It's
not like he wasn't producing at a high level. And
I think he was at fifty seven percent trough shooting,
which is respectable. It's not like Jimmy wasn't producing. And
(13:05):
this is where it's important to acknowledge the surrounding circumstances
that Golden State offense, That Golden State roster is devoid
of offensive talent after Steph Curry and Jimmy. That's why,
like guys, even Steph Curry himself, Mega struggled relative to
his standards before Jimmy Butler entered the equation and made
(13:26):
things easier. In other words, if I swapped because again,
look at Oklahoma City. I talked about it extensively. The
star of that team was their defense. Shay and JDub
were both pretty inconsistent on offense in that playoff run.
Their defensive playment. They deserve credit for how they contributed
to the defense, but both of them had offensive limitations
that led to them getting taken to seven games by
(13:48):
two teams that were inferior to them. In short, I
if I swapped them, if I put Jadub on that
Warriors roster that is devoid of offensive talent, especially after
Steph was out of the lineup to go carry that
Warriors offense. He's also gonna look really bad against the
Minnesota Timberwolves. And I believe if I took Jimmy Butler
(14:11):
and put him on that same super deep Oklahoma City
roster and allowed him to play off of Shay as
a secondary shot creator and leading bench units, I think
Jimmy Butler would be slightly better than Jada. I think
he's just a little bit more experienced, a little bit
more reliable night tonight. I think he's actually a little
bit better of a defensive playmaker off the ball, and
(14:34):
he's got this unique ability to get to the foul line,
something that gives him the ability to strangle the pace
of postseason games, which gives him a tough a bunch
of value. I want to get a little bit more
into Jimmy here in a minute, but the point is
I don't expect that to last. I think Jadub is
the heir apparent to that archetype of player. I just
will always favor that older, more experienced player. It's kind
of just a basketball worldview of mine. Would love to
(14:57):
hear your reasoning as to why you prefer Jimmy ver
Siakam for next year's playoffs, not to mention the regular
season effort. I feel like I would much rather have
Siakam for a playoff run than Jimmy. Siakam is a
better three point shooter than Jimmy and was more consistent
with looking to score throughout the playoffs. Watching Jimmy against
the t Wolves, a team like he didn't even want
to look at the rim for big chunks of the game.
I also think Siakam is a more virstaile defender. UFC
(15:18):
three nineteen is blowing back to the Windy City for
the first time in six years. Check out the fight
card and get in in all the action at Draft
Kings sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC
drinks to Plus. He puts his middleweight title up against
Cosmat Chimayev, who's a perfect fourteen and zero. Who are
you taking first time betting on the UFC at DraftKings,
Just pick something simple like a fighter to win and
(15:41):
make your pick. It's that easy. And if you're new
to DraftKings check this out. New customers who bet five
dollars will get two hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly.
Don't miss out on all the UFC three nineteen action
Download the Draft Kings sportsbook app now and use code
hoops that's hoops. That's code hoops for new customers to
get two one hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly when
(16:02):
you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings. The Crown
is yours. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler In
New York call eight seven seven eight hope and why,
or text hope and wy to four six seven three
six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling.
Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven
seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on
(16:24):
behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas twenty one plus.
Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bonus
bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and
responsible gaming resources, see DKG dot co slash audio so
(16:45):
Again Jimmy. Jimmy has two high level traits that make him,
in my opinion, a better all around offensive player in
the postseason. Then a lot of people give him credit
for one, he's kind of like a legitimate point forward playmaker.
Siakam falls more in line with what I would consider
to just be a straight up score and again there's
(17:06):
a lot of value there. I'm not trying to undercut
the success of a guy who put the ball in
the basket. But Siakam scored at volume a little bit
better than Jimmy, and Jimmy is a substantially better playmaker
at the position. The second piece of it is the
reliability of his ability to get to the foul line.
We talked about this when we covered Jimmy, but because
(17:27):
of his obscene foul rate, you gave the ball to
Jimmy one on one and his ability to score, his
score percentage was over fifty percent. It was an incredibly
reliable play type because of Jimmy's ability to get to
the foul line. So I looked at Jimmy as a
more reliable possession to possession score and a better playmaker
than a guy like Siakam, while also coming pretty close
(17:49):
to Siakam's scoring volume overall. And that's in the context. Again,
Siakam was playing in a high octane pace in space
surrounded by a shit ton of shooting and Jimmy Butler
was playing for a Golden State team that literally was
playing like two, three, sometimes four non shooters at any
given moment. That was a very, very limited offensive roster
for Golden State. Well, Siakam the secondary star Jason he
(18:14):
won the Eastern Conference Finals MVP, and if they won
the NBA Finals, I would argue he would have won
finals MVP, which if you do that, you're number one.
Hallie was clutched as hell, but I don't think he
played as well as Siakam. Again, this comes down to
that same concept that I've been talking so much about.
I value the advantage creation. To me, the Pacers embodied
(18:35):
what Tyre's Halliburton did. Look at the on off numbers.
The Pacers offense was way better with Haliburton on the
floor versus when Haliburton was off the floor, because he
is the guy who injects the life. He's the guy
that throws the kick ahead passes, that makes the quick decisions,
that hunts early advantages in the first few seconds of
the shot clock, that greased the wheels for that entire
(18:56):
Indiana Pacers offense. I value that train more than a
guy who can just simply put the ball in the basket.
Siakam is incredible. I moved him way up the list
this year, but no, I do not view Pascal Siakam
as a better basketball player than Tyrese Haliburn. I think
if you went to the past the Pacers front office,
irrespective of age, even with Tyrese's Achilles injury, and you
(19:19):
were like, who would you rather have moving forward, Tyrese
Haliburton or Pascal Siakam, I think they, in a heartbeat,
would say that they prefer to have Tyrese Haliburton. This
is a kind of a bigger picture question surrounding some
of the concepts I've been talking about. How do you
balance value or excuse me, how do you balance slash value?
Experience in youth? Experience may help players in big games,
(19:41):
but it's more detailed and hard to tell. A youth
can help have better sustainability, more minutes, and more net
contribution in a long season, maybe a series or a
game too. For example, would you rather have twenty fifteen
Curry or twenty twenty Curry? Thank you? So this is
where I've always talked about this concept of like young
players struggling to see what works and replicate it, and
(20:03):
struggling to see what doesn't work and trim that fat.
Young players tend to have a higher ceiling. Their athletic
traits give them the ability when their game is clicking,
to reach a level that the older versions of themselves
don't reach. If I had to simplify or synthesize my
opinion that I favor veterans over young talent down to
(20:26):
one singular concept, here's what I would say. When you
get into big basketball moments, it actually becomes more about
not making mistakes. Then it comes down to your supreme
gift guiding you to an individual possession of greatness. Championship
(20:49):
basketball teams don't make mistakes relative to their peers, generally speaking,
because everyone gets tired, and everyone gets warm and down
by the physicality, and everyone struggles from the game planning
and the just overall intensity and stakes and pressure and
fear and everything that gets wrapped up into those moments.
(21:12):
It really becomes about can you keep your floor high
enough to survive? Can you hang on to the rope
longer than your opponent. That's how you win big basketball games.
They tend to end at super low low scores, and
he like Game seven's big Game sixes clutch situations, the
(21:35):
offensive ratings all tank and it tends to come down
to who made fewer mistakes. Take twenty fifteen Curry versus
twenty twenty two Curry. Do you think twenty twenty two
Curry is gonna throw behind the back pass to Klay
Thompson in the corner like he did in the twenty
sixteen finals when he threw the ball out of bounce. No,
(21:57):
that was a young version of Curry that was more
mistake prone. Twenty twenty two Curry may not quite have
had the crazy high highs as a guy like twenty
fifteen Curry, But twenty twenty two Curry was a rock
solid player who did not make mistakes and allowed a
team to hang onto the rope longer than his peers.
(22:20):
And guess what the Celtics they decomposed and made mistakes.
Their young players fell apart and made mistakes. Remember when
Tatum and Brown like straight up couldn't get the ball
across half court without turning the ball over numerous stretches
during that playoff run, that, especially in years surrounding that
with like the Miami Heat when they would pick him
(22:41):
up full court. Like these young Celtics were mistake prone.
They didn't reach their ceiling in that finals. It's not
like the Warriors reached some crazy high level. They hung
onto the rope and played disciplined, mistake free basketball. That
is why I leaned towards Vets in big spots. They
(23:02):
tend to be less prone to the mistakes that can
cost you basketball games. And yes, I do believe that
twenty twenty two Currier really that whole phase from the
end of the twenty twenty one regular season to the
twenty twenty two finals to be the best version of
Steph Curry that I ever watched. All Right, we have
three more. There's just no way that any of these
(23:23):
guys should be ahead of Cad and whatever criteria you
use last season stats looking ahead, Kate is a number
one option on the playoff team at twenty three years
old averaging twenty six and nine. You always say you
gravitate towards an offensive engine type of player and then
put three people who are second options slash non offensive engines.
Even if you want to say Book is a first option,
which he never did. What Caid did as a first
(23:43):
option as an offensive engine. In my opinion, book was
not the offensive engine in twenty twenty one. Either way,
you put too much into playoff performance slash experience, or
you're penalizing too much for being young. Essentially, what I'm
saying is Kate is being a number one option on
the playoff team with stats at his age only seen
since since seen since Oscar Robertson, seen only since Oscar Robertson.
(24:04):
That should automatically disqualify most number two options from being
ahead of him. Unrelated, these lists get way too cloudy
when you do past season plus looking ahead. In my opinion,
the list only based on the previous season are better. Nevertheless,
love the show. Kaid's just my guy. Lol. I get it,
you're defending your players, fan. I totally understand that. I
am a big believer in my criteria, but look, there's
(24:24):
a million ways to do this, and I don't blame
you for disagreeing, and it kind of just you know,
one of the things with looking backwards is it doesn't
take into account surrounding circumstances, and that can be tough,
and like, I really try to look at this more
in a vacuum as best as I can. But again,
I'm a big believer in kid. But it kind of
comes down to what I was just talking about. Cad
was mistake prone. The Pistons lost a lot of games
(24:46):
at the end. Cad in the clutch in this postseason
run four for twelve with three turnovers overall and fourth
quarters kde twelve for thirty two with fifteen assists and
ten turnovers. Counteracting those fifteen assists, he was mistake prone
at the end of those games, and it stopped the
Pistons from winning a lot of games that they should
(25:07):
have won against the Knicks team that was pretty underwhelming
all year outside of a small handful of those games.
So again, for guy like Kate, he just has to
learn to cut out the mistakes. If he does, he'll
benefit more from his upside. Next question, can you give
me a single reason why my friend might have any
argument that Dame's full body of talent should be ranked
(25:28):
higher than Steph's. Is there any semblance of an argument
that Steph would have had largely the same career that
Dame did if you were to been the one in
Portland in place of Day. This is one of the
biggest things that I fundamentally disagree with is this this
take that Dame is kind of in the same group
as a guy like Steph. I actually do think that
Dame is in the same territory as Steph as an
(25:49):
on ballplayer. Only as an on ballplayer, Dame was a
ridiculous off the dribble, pull up three point shooter who
brought real downhill burst and who was a very good
passer out of those high ball screens. But there were
two things that Steph did that completely separated him from Dame,
like just completely put him in an entirely different tier,
(26:09):
meaning like I have Steph as one of the ten
best basketball players ever and Dame's not even close to that.
When you start to evaluate a guy, and it's a
reason why if you would have switched them, I would
actually have viewed the Portland Trailblazers probably as a team
that would have accomplished more than the Golden State Warriors.
The simple reason why those two things. One the commitment
to defense. Steph was bigger and stronger than Dame, a
(26:31):
few inches taller, a lot more in terms of the
amount of muscle that he brought to the table. And
Steph committed to becoming a useful defender. Steph did the job.
He was never great, he was always the target, but
he always did the job within the scheme and competed
well enough that he could still have an elite defense
with him on the floor. That was something that Dame
(26:53):
was never able to accomplish. Dame just didn't quite have
the same physical tools and he never put in the
requisite amount of work. Dame was literally one of the
worst defensive guards I watched in this era. And then
the second piece of it, and this is something that
Dame just left meat on the bone because has nothing
to do with physical tools, so to speak. Steph embraced
off ball movement. Steph is one of the best offensive
(27:14):
engines in the NBA. It's a big reason why he
ranks so high on the list this year, and one
of the main reasons why is because when he just
runs around in circles with his off ball movement, he
attracts so much attention that it generates the advantages, the
advantages that grease the wheels for any NBA offense. Steph
running off a screen, two guys run with him, they
leave a guy open. It generates advantages of Steph comes
(27:34):
up a high ball screen, he passes it over top
to the guy rolling in the four and three. It
generates advantages. Steph has an offensive engine element to him
that a guy like Damian Lillard never had. Those two
things completely separated Steph from Dame, even though Dame was
close in terms of an on ball talent to what
Steph Curry did. And then last question, I'm surprised that
(27:56):
you didn't even consider chet Holmgren as a top twenty
five player for next season. He was arguably the Thunder's
best player before he got injured last year. Yes, his
offense is infuriating to watch some times, but he didn't
get a lot of time to gel with the team
once he came back. I think that'll improve dramatically next
season when he plays a full season and has more
reps playing with Shay and Jada. He's also a top
two rim protector in one of the best defenders in
the league in my opinion. Hard to see how he
(28:17):
doesn't have top twenty five level impact. So the thing
with Chet is, I don't think he really brings other
than vertical spacing. I don't think he brings really any
reliable offensive trade at this point, I don't view him
as a high level passer. He had more turnovers than
assists in this postseason run. I think that he struggles
as a post defender. He's a little too thin. He
can get pushed around. I think on the offensive end
(28:40):
of the floor, he can get pushed around a little
bit on the glass. Excuse me, on the defense end
the floor, he can get push around a little bit
on the glass. On the offense end of the floor,
he can't knock down spot up jump shots. He's not
a good decision maker driving closeouts. It's really just like,
can he catch and finish wide open dunks around the basket? Yes,
he can, But everything else he's a little bit inefficient
and a little bit too pro to mistakes. When you
(29:01):
look at the guys that are above him on this list,
they bring like real offensive utility. Bam, as frustrating as
a player as he can be, he brings real offensive utility.
And I just think BAM's a flat out better defensive
player than Chet Holmgren. You look at a guy like
Evan Mobley, I think Chet's a better defender than Evan Mobley.
But Evan Mobley is a substantially better offensive player right
now than Chet Holmgren is. He's a reliable catch and
(29:23):
shoot guy and a guy who can run some action.
To me, Chet will absolutely be very high on this
list one day. I believe in him as an offensive talent.
I think he'll figure all of this stuff out, But
in this particular phase of his career, he's just way
too limited offensively and has a couple of big weaknesses
on defense that I think prevent him from getting higher
on this list. All right, guys, this is all I
(29:45):
have for today is always sincerely appreciate you guys for
supporting me and supporting the show. We will be back
on Monday with our top ten. I will see you
guys now. Yeah,
The volume. All right, well, good to Hoops tonight. You're
at the volume. Happy Friday, everybody, Oh bove you guys
are having a great week. Today is our next mail
bag geared around player rankings again. Remember, if you guys
(00:23):
want to disagree or argue anything in the player rankings,
a player too high, players too low, players should be
on the list, player shouldn't be on the list. Anything
you want to get into surrounding the player rankings, make
sure you drop the mail bag questions in our full episodes.
Put mail bag colon, write what you disagree with, write
an elevator, pitch a quick concise version of why you disagree,
and we will get to them in our mail bags
(00:45):
throughout the rest of this player ranking series. You guys
know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to Hoops
and Not YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of
our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore JSNLTS. You
guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast
fee wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson iss soon great work on
our social media feeds, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make
sure you guys follow us there. The last, but not least,
(01:05):
Like I mentioned earlier, just keep dropping those mail bag
questions in the YouTube comments. All right, let's talk some basketball.
First question, Hi, Jason, love your analysis that's helped me
understand the game on a deeper level. I would like
to ask what is the thought process behind ranking a
player like Mobili higher than Harden. I get the low
results of Harden during the playoffs, but isn't he fundamentally
(01:26):
a much more impactful player than Mobii. Imagine a scenario
where you were GM and you should begin a franchise
around either of those two with the upcoming year. Isn't
Harden's floor raising elite advantage creation a more significant asset
that could help build a team around him with smaller
and more achievable roles. Or would you compare them strictly
as number twos? So this is where it gets tricky.
(01:49):
I do view advantage creation as a more valuable trait,
the probably the most valuable individual trait that a basketball
player can have. The problem is is there's tears to it. So,
for instance, I think there are guys that can provide
a rough facsimile of advantage creation. Think like, uh, you
(02:09):
know D'Angelo Russell or like this version of Chris Paul
at his age, but like, I don't think either of
those guys can do it at the volume necessary to
do what a regular season team needs for eighty two
games to be like a good offense. Right. Then there's
like the tier above that which James Harden is in,
which is like, this is the group of guys that
(02:31):
are capable of creating advantages at a high level in
a regular season context and give you a certain floor
in the regular season, but it just doesn't translate the
way it needs to in big moments and big games
the way that it needs to to be reliable in
that setting, and that kind of cuts it off at
a certain point. Then there's like this next tier, and
(02:52):
this is where you're looking at the Tyrese Haliburton on
the low end and like the Luka Doncic I should
say Tyre's Haliburton Lebron type guys on the low end,
and then on the high end guys like Luca Nikolea Jokich,
so on and so forth, where it's like they can
give you this super high regular season offensive floor, and
they give you this certain amount of reliability when they
get into the postseason. And so again, like James Harden's
(03:15):
advantage creation is gonna give him an edge over a
lot of the guys that I had below him among
that tier. But once we enter into additional tiers of
like what I'm trying to accomplish, Like if I'm trying
to accomplish a championship this year, if I have Harden
as my best player on one hand, and I have
Mobley as my best player on the other hand, I'm
(03:37):
not winning a championship with either of them. Yeah, Harden's
gonna give me a better offense, probably gonna win more
regular season games. I'm almost certainly gonna win more regular
season games, But like, neither of them are getting me
a championship. We're looking at it in the context of like,
when I'm trying to reach that ultimate goal, Evan Mobley
(03:57):
as my second best player, I feel like I have
a better chance to win the title then James Harden
as my second best player. James Harden's skill set is
incredibly valuable. It's why he deserves the paycheck that he
gets for the record. As I said, in the beginning
of our list, each of the top forty players in
the NBA I think are worthy of the salaries that
(04:19):
they're on. A lot of people are freaking out that
Dearon Fox makes as much money as he makes. When
you really think about a guy who reliably gets to
the rim, that can knock down a lot of high
level shots in the mid range, who's like a very
good clutch player and is a good forward, aggressive, turnover
forcing defensive playmaker. To me, Daron Fox kind of fits
the criteria of a max level player. Now we can
argue about whether or not those fifty million dollar contracts
(04:42):
can hamstring teams, but the truth is is that as
the cap goes higher and higher with the new TV deal,
a guy like Darren Fox brings a lot to the
table and he's worthy of the money that he makes.
To me. James Harden, who ranked twenty sixth on this list,
by the way, is an incredibly valuable regular season offensive engine,
but he runs into such a clear and defined ceiling,
(05:05):
I should say, a very low floor when he gets
into these big, big playoff moments that it's almost like
a disqualifier for me. Whereas Evan Mobley has so much
reliable night to night playoff impact that I feel like
with him I have a better chance as my number two.
But again, as we talked about, I'm not seeing a
massive gap there between where I have Mobley and where
(05:27):
I have Hardened. It's all relative to where the guys
are in that tier. Realistically, Bam seems to have shown
us his ceiling. An elite defender who can be a
key folkrum and a ball movement offense through dribble, handoffs
and playmaking, and can maybe provide further spacing if three
point shooting trends up, we should stop expecting him to
be a twenty plus point per game score. That being said,
(05:49):
Miami is not in a spot roster wise to showcase
all the elite tools that Bam does have on a
big playoff stage. If Bam does become available, where would
you like to see him go slash? Who has the
necessary assets? Where would he best fit and contribute most
to championship level basketball. That is a very good question,
and it's very well laid out in the sense that
I fundamentally agree with you that like BAM's specific trait,
(06:14):
his set of traits is so valuable, but not valuable
enough in the Miami scheme to be worth kind of
like tying your future around him, right. So I was
trying to think through what kind of teams would make
sense for a guy like Bam at a bio to
where he would come in and immediately be weaponized for
what he's great at and covered for what he's bad at,
(06:36):
and be able to lift a team to the next level.
And what I thought about was, it's got to be
a five out context. I don't think he has as
much value in a four out one in context, mainly
just because he's not the same vertical spacer as even
a guy like Evan Mobley, let alone some of the
guys that are above him on this list, right, And
so I think he's in his lack of finishing ability
in that short range lay up range, I think also
limit him as a four out one end player. So
(06:58):
like to me, he needs to be in a five
out offense where he's running dribble handoffs and being more
relied on as a screener decision maker at the top
of the key than a guy that's just being a
play finisher in the dunker spot. So that's the first
thing I'm looking at Secondly, I think he needs to
be surrounded by a lot of offensive talent. I think
he needs to be surrounded by guys that can do
the majority of the shot creation on the ball, so
(07:22):
that he's not dependent on in that regard at all,
and so that he can average fifteen points per game
and it not be something that is damaging to his team.
So that's kind of the set of situations that I
think makes the most sense. I put down five teams
that I think makes sense for Bam won the New
York Knicks. I think if he kind of filled into
that Isaiah Hartenstein role that he was in two years ago,
(07:44):
I think he'd do a wonderful job of that, running
those actions with Michale Bridges and Jalen Brunson out top
the backdoor cutting that's available in that offense, with the
just really smart offensive players that he's surrounded by, having
all that offensive firepower around him to kind of bolster
him in the way so that's not needed, but also
giving them a legitimate defensive anchor to make them a
(08:05):
viable playoff defense. I think Bam would be a fantastic
fit with the Knicks. To the Pacers just lost Miles Turner.
They have a gaping hole at that center spot, and
I can't think of a better five out big to
fit with the Tyrese Haliburton led offense and Andrew Nemhard
led offense than a guy like bam At a BIO.
I think he'd be awesome with the Indiana Pacers three
the Detroit Pistons. This is a team that they're kind
(08:27):
of on the fence about how they feel about their centers.
They're in this situation where they're about to have to
extend guys like Jalen Duran or decide whether or not
they want to invest in Isaiah Stewart, and they have
the assets to be able to pull off a move
like bringing a guy like bam At a Bio in
and be an interesting kind of veteran bet on a
guy like Ky Cunningham. I think that they're a little
(08:49):
bit more in that four out one in context, but
I think that they have the shooting talent with a
guy like Duncan Robinson and with Karris Lavert and his
ball handling, I think they could try to add more
or five out concepts, and I think bam could be
a guy that fits there reasonably well fourth the Golden
State Warriors. There's a pipe dream, but I can't think
of a guy who would fit better and a Steph
Curry led five out offense than a guy like BAM
(09:11):
at a bio obviously in a very high IQ defensive
playmaking type of group, I think he could be really useful.
Steve Kerr also loves to do a lot of switching,
which is something that Bam is particularly great at. And then, lastly,
the san Antonio Spurts. I think that he would compliment
a guy like Victor winbin Yama extremely well as a
more big, physical player that has the ability to put
(09:31):
Victor into some different defensive roles so that he doesn't
always have to be guarding ball screens, or he doesn't
always have to be guarding the Nicola Jokicic's of the world.
I think that san Antonio would be a really interesting
fit for a guy like BAM, and I also think
that Victor's kind of tendency to want to play more
like a wing on offense allows BAM to function more
as that dribble handoff fulkrim near the top of the key.
(09:52):
Next question, Jason Big fan of the show, Top two
hope shoot show period. Thank you so much for the
kind words, but I have to say not having Cat
top twenty five is insane. He was amazing offensively at
times and the best player on the floor at moments.
Throughout the playoffs. He's taken over multiple fourth quarters where
the defense literally can't stop him. How did Trey Young
make it over him? He's super inefficient and worse on
defense than Kat just by size alone. Side note, Kat
(10:14):
was a significantly better. It was significantly better than BAM
this season. Would love to hear a response, Have a
good one, my man, Keep doing your thing. This has
been the biggest thing that I struggle with that a
lot of people disagree with me, But like I view
there to be two different kinds of bad defenders. We
talked about this concept a lot before I went to Alaska.
There's bad defenders that are physically incapable of being great defenders,
(10:38):
and then there are defenders that are so sloppy in
the details and so prone to mistakes that they literally
become a death sentence for a defense. And to me,
Kat falls into that category. Kat is so incredibly mistake
prone he almost single handedly lost them Game six with
his reckless crashing, poor floor balance, and just getting outrun
(11:00):
up and down the floor because he just wasn't paying
attention to what he was needing to do, and several
other points throughout the season and throughout the postseason, his
really inconsistent hedges and shows, and his inability like committing
to one side of the ball screen before the ball
handler even has and just giving up easy drible penetration.
He is so mistake prone on defense that he's literally
(11:20):
impossible to build a good defense around. The only way
you can is by putting an excellent defensive center next
to him, like Minnesota did. That came with its own
limitations in terms of roster construction and the allocation of
resources when you need to cover for him by having
an excellent defensive center, which is going to cost you
thirty plus million dollars in the modern NBA. So I
(11:40):
kind of view him as like a fundamentally flawed player
to try to build a championship team around. If he's
a big that can't play center on a real defense
but makes over fifty million, it's just kind of like
a death sentence for me in that regard. I also
just think Tray is a much better offensive player than him.
And this really comes down to my biggest opinion, which
is that I value advantage creation in that offensive engine
(12:01):
piece more than I value like tip of the spear scoring.
And that's just more of a basketball philosophy thing of mine.
A lot of JDub stuff. Next question. I have trouble
accepting your JDub evaluation in general, but here I will
address the comparison to Butler. Let me first say, Jimmy
Butler is my favorite active player, even so he has
well passed his prime while Williams is ascending. Butler misses
(12:23):
games every season due to injury, and that's likely to
continue or even worsen this season. As you explain, Williams
should perform better this season because of maturation and health,
Butler has shown that he's no longer a consistent postseason performer,
which age does, whereas Williams just showed the opposite despite injury.
I get the whole young versuet thing, but Williams is
so good and Butler is old. I just can't see
(12:43):
how one can reasonably expect Butler to be a better
asset to a team across this upcoming season. And let's
not even talk about contracts. So first of all, Jimmy
just averaged nineteen seven and five in the postseason. It's
not like he wasn't producing at a high level. And
I think he was at fifty seven percent trough shooting,
which is respectable. It's not like Jimmy wasn't producing. And
(13:05):
this is where it's important to acknowledge the surrounding circumstances
that Golden State offense, That Golden State roster is devoid
of offensive talent after Steph Curry and Jimmy. That's why,
like guys, even Steph Curry himself, Mega struggled relative to
his standards before Jimmy Butler entered the equation and made
(13:26):
things easier. In other words, if I swapped because again,
look at Oklahoma City. I talked about it extensively. The
star of that team was their defense. Shay and JDub
were both pretty inconsistent on offense in that playoff run.
Their defensive playment. They deserve credit for how they contributed
to the defense, but both of them had offensive limitations
that led to them getting taken to seven games by
(13:48):
two teams that were inferior to them. In short, I
if I swapped them, if I put Jadub on that
Warriors roster that is devoid of offensive talent, especially after
Steph was out of the lineup to go carry that
Warriors offense. He's also gonna look really bad against the
Minnesota Timberwolves. And I believe if I took Jimmy Butler
(14:11):
and put him on that same super deep Oklahoma City
roster and allowed him to play off of Shay as
a secondary shot creator and leading bench units, I think
Jimmy Butler would be slightly better than Jada. I think
he's just a little bit more experienced, a little bit
more reliable night tonight. I think he's actually a little
bit better of a defensive playmaker off the ball, and
(14:34):
he's got this unique ability to get to the foul line,
something that gives him the ability to strangle the pace
of postseason games, which gives him a tough a bunch
of value. I want to get a little bit more
into Jimmy here in a minute, but the point is
I don't expect that to last. I think Jadub is
the heir apparent to that archetype of player. I just
will always favor that older, more experienced player. It's kind
of just a basketball worldview of mine. Would love to
(14:57):
hear your reasoning as to why you prefer Jimmy ver
Siakam for next year's playoffs, not to mention the regular
season effort. I feel like I would much rather have
Siakam for a playoff run than Jimmy. Siakam is a
better three point shooter than Jimmy and was more consistent
with looking to score throughout the playoffs. Watching Jimmy against
the t Wolves, a team like he didn't even want
to look at the rim for big chunks of the game.
I also think Siakam is a more virstaile defender. UFC
(15:18):
three nineteen is blowing back to the Windy City for
the first time in six years. Check out the fight
card and get in in all the action at Draft
Kings sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC
drinks to Plus. He puts his middleweight title up against
Cosmat Chimayev, who's a perfect fourteen and zero. Who are
you taking first time betting on the UFC at DraftKings,
Just pick something simple like a fighter to win and
(15:41):
make your pick. It's that easy. And if you're new
to DraftKings check this out. New customers who bet five
dollars will get two hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly.
Don't miss out on all the UFC three nineteen action
Download the Draft Kings sportsbook app now and use code
hoops that's hoops. That's code hoops for new customers to
get two one hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly when
(16:02):
you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings. The Crown
is yours. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler In
New York call eight seven seven eight hope and why,
or text hope and wy to four six seven three
six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling.
Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven
seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on
(16:24):
behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas twenty one plus.
Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bonus
bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and
responsible gaming resources, see DKG dot co slash audio so
(16:45):
Again Jimmy. Jimmy has two high level traits that make him,
in my opinion, a better all around offensive player in
the postseason. Then a lot of people give him credit
for one, he's kind of like a legitimate point forward playmaker.
Siakam falls more in line with what I would consider
to just be a straight up score and again there's
(17:06):
a lot of value there. I'm not trying to undercut
the success of a guy who put the ball in
the basket. But Siakam scored at volume a little bit
better than Jimmy, and Jimmy is a substantially better playmaker
at the position. The second piece of it is the
reliability of his ability to get to the foul line.
We talked about this when we covered Jimmy, but because
(17:27):
of his obscene foul rate, you gave the ball to
Jimmy one on one and his ability to score, his
score percentage was over fifty percent. It was an incredibly
reliable play type because of Jimmy's ability to get to
the foul line. So I looked at Jimmy as a
more reliable possession to possession score and a better playmaker
than a guy like Siakam, while also coming pretty close
(17:49):
to Siakam's scoring volume overall. And that's in the context. Again,
Siakam was playing in a high octane pace in space
surrounded by a shit ton of shooting and Jimmy Butler
was playing for a Golden State team that literally was
playing like two, three, sometimes four non shooters at any
given moment. That was a very, very limited offensive roster
for Golden State. Well, Siakam the secondary star Jason he
(18:14):
won the Eastern Conference Finals MVP, and if they won
the NBA Finals, I would argue he would have won
finals MVP, which if you do that, you're number one.
Hallie was clutched as hell, but I don't think he
played as well as Siakam. Again, this comes down to
that same concept that I've been talking so much about.
I value the advantage creation. To me, the Pacers embodied
(18:35):
what Tyre's Halliburton did. Look at the on off numbers.
The Pacers offense was way better with Haliburton on the
floor versus when Haliburton was off the floor, because he
is the guy who injects the life. He's the guy
that throws the kick ahead passes, that makes the quick decisions,
that hunts early advantages in the first few seconds of
the shot clock, that greased the wheels for that entire
(18:56):
Indiana Pacers offense. I value that train more than a
guy who can just simply put the ball in the basket.
Siakam is incredible. I moved him way up the list
this year, but no, I do not view Pascal Siakam
as a better basketball player than Tyrese Haliburn. I think
if you went to the past the Pacers front office,
irrespective of age, even with Tyrese's Achilles injury, and you
(19:19):
were like, who would you rather have moving forward, Tyrese
Haliburton or Pascal Siakam, I think they, in a heartbeat,
would say that they prefer to have Tyrese Haliburton. This
is a kind of a bigger picture question surrounding some
of the concepts I've been talking about. How do you
balance value or excuse me, how do you balance slash value?
Experience in youth? Experience may help players in big games,
(19:41):
but it's more detailed and hard to tell. A youth
can help have better sustainability, more minutes, and more net
contribution in a long season, maybe a series or a
game too. For example, would you rather have twenty fifteen
Curry or twenty twenty Curry? Thank you? So this is
where I've always talked about this concept of like young
players struggling to see what works and replicate it, and
(20:03):
struggling to see what doesn't work and trim that fat.
Young players tend to have a higher ceiling. Their athletic
traits give them the ability when their game is clicking,
to reach a level that the older versions of themselves
don't reach. If I had to simplify or synthesize my
opinion that I favor veterans over young talent down to
(20:26):
one singular concept, here's what I would say. When you
get into big basketball moments, it actually becomes more about
not making mistakes. Then it comes down to your supreme
gift guiding you to an individual possession of greatness. Championship
(20:49):
basketball teams don't make mistakes relative to their peers, generally speaking,
because everyone gets tired, and everyone gets warm and down
by the physicality, and everyone struggles from the game planning
and the just overall intensity and stakes and pressure and
fear and everything that gets wrapped up into those moments.
(21:12):
It really becomes about can you keep your floor high
enough to survive? Can you hang on to the rope
longer than your opponent. That's how you win big basketball games.
They tend to end at super low low scores, and
he like Game seven's big Game sixes clutch situations, the
(21:35):
offensive ratings all tank and it tends to come down
to who made fewer mistakes. Take twenty fifteen Curry versus
twenty twenty two Curry. Do you think twenty twenty two
Curry is gonna throw behind the back pass to Klay
Thompson in the corner like he did in the twenty
sixteen finals when he threw the ball out of bounce. No,
(21:57):
that was a young version of Curry that was more
mistake prone. Twenty twenty two Curry may not quite have
had the crazy high highs as a guy like twenty
fifteen Curry, But twenty twenty two Curry was a rock
solid player who did not make mistakes and allowed a
team to hang onto the rope longer than his peers.
(22:20):
And guess what the Celtics they decomposed and made mistakes.
Their young players fell apart and made mistakes. Remember when
Tatum and Brown like straight up couldn't get the ball
across half court without turning the ball over numerous stretches
during that playoff run, that, especially in years surrounding that
with like the Miami Heat when they would pick him
(22:41):
up full court. Like these young Celtics were mistake prone.
They didn't reach their ceiling in that finals. It's not
like the Warriors reached some crazy high level. They hung
onto the rope and played disciplined, mistake free basketball. That
is why I leaned towards Vets in big spots. They
(23:02):
tend to be less prone to the mistakes that can
cost you basketball games. And yes, I do believe that
twenty twenty two Currier really that whole phase from the
end of the twenty twenty one regular season to the
twenty twenty two finals to be the best version of
Steph Curry that I ever watched. All Right, we have
three more. There's just no way that any of these
(23:23):
guys should be ahead of Cad and whatever criteria you
use last season stats looking ahead, Kate is a number
one option on the playoff team at twenty three years
old averaging twenty six and nine. You always say you
gravitate towards an offensive engine type of player and then
put three people who are second options slash non offensive engines.
Even if you want to say Book is a first option,
which he never did. What Caid did as a first
(23:43):
option as an offensive engine. In my opinion, book was
not the offensive engine in twenty twenty one. Either way,
you put too much into playoff performance slash experience, or
you're penalizing too much for being young. Essentially, what I'm
saying is Kate is being a number one option on
the playoff team with stats at his age only seen
since since seen since Oscar Robertson, seen only since Oscar Robertson.
(24:04):
That should automatically disqualify most number two options from being
ahead of him. Unrelated, these lists get way too cloudy
when you do past season plus looking ahead. In my opinion,
the list only based on the previous season are better. Nevertheless,
love the show. Kaid's just my guy. Lol. I get it,
you're defending your players, fan. I totally understand that. I
am a big believer in my criteria, but look, there's
(24:24):
a million ways to do this, and I don't blame
you for disagreeing, and it kind of just you know,
one of the things with looking backwards is it doesn't
take into account surrounding circumstances, and that can be tough,
and like, I really try to look at this more
in a vacuum as best as I can. But again,
I'm a big believer in kid. But it kind of
comes down to what I was just talking about. Cad
was mistake prone. The Pistons lost a lot of games
(24:46):
at the end. Cad in the clutch in this postseason
run four for twelve with three turnovers overall and fourth
quarters kde twelve for thirty two with fifteen assists and
ten turnovers. Counteracting those fifteen assists, he was mistake prone
at the end of those games, and it stopped the
Pistons from winning a lot of games that they should
(25:07):
have won against the Knicks team that was pretty underwhelming
all year outside of a small handful of those games.
So again, for guy like Kate, he just has to
learn to cut out the mistakes. If he does, he'll
benefit more from his upside. Next question, can you give
me a single reason why my friend might have any
argument that Dame's full body of talent should be ranked
(25:28):
higher than Steph's. Is there any semblance of an argument
that Steph would have had largely the same career that
Dame did if you were to been the one in
Portland in place of Day. This is one of the
biggest things that I fundamentally disagree with is this this
take that Dame is kind of in the same group
as a guy like Steph. I actually do think that
Dame is in the same territory as Steph as an
(25:49):
on ballplayer. Only as an on ballplayer, Dame was a
ridiculous off the dribble, pull up three point shooter who
brought real downhill burst and who was a very good
passer out of those high ball screens. But there were
two things that Steph did that completely separated him from Dame,
like just completely put him in an entirely different tier,
(26:09):
meaning like I have Steph as one of the ten
best basketball players ever and Dame's not even close to that.
When you start to evaluate a guy, and it's a
reason why if you would have switched them, I would
actually have viewed the Portland Trailblazers probably as a team
that would have accomplished more than the Golden State Warriors.
The simple reason why those two things. One the commitment
to defense. Steph was bigger and stronger than Dame, a
(26:31):
few inches taller, a lot more in terms of the
amount of muscle that he brought to the table. And
Steph committed to becoming a useful defender. Steph did the job.
He was never great, he was always the target, but
he always did the job within the scheme and competed
well enough that he could still have an elite defense
with him on the floor. That was something that Dame
(26:53):
was never able to accomplish. Dame just didn't quite have
the same physical tools and he never put in the
requisite amount of work. Dame was literally one of the
worst defensive guards I watched in this era. And then
the second piece of it, and this is something that
Dame just left meat on the bone because has nothing
to do with physical tools, so to speak. Steph embraced
off ball movement. Steph is one of the best offensive
(27:14):
engines in the NBA. It's a big reason why he
ranks so high on the list this year, and one
of the main reasons why is because when he just
runs around in circles with his off ball movement, he
attracts so much attention that it generates the advantages, the
advantages that grease the wheels for any NBA offense. Steph
running off a screen, two guys run with him, they
leave a guy open. It generates advantages of Steph comes
(27:34):
up a high ball screen, he passes it over top
to the guy rolling in the four and three. It
generates advantages. Steph has an offensive engine element to him
that a guy like Damian Lillard never had. Those two
things completely separated Steph from Dame, even though Dame was
close in terms of an on ball talent to what
Steph Curry did. And then last question, I'm surprised that
(27:56):
you didn't even consider chet Holmgren as a top twenty
five player for next season. He was arguably the Thunder's
best player before he got injured last year. Yes, his
offense is infuriating to watch some times, but he didn't
get a lot of time to gel with the team
once he came back. I think that'll improve dramatically next
season when he plays a full season and has more
reps playing with Shay and Jada. He's also a top
two rim protector in one of the best defenders in
the league in my opinion. Hard to see how he
(28:17):
doesn't have top twenty five level impact. So the thing
with Chet is, I don't think he really brings other
than vertical spacing. I don't think he brings really any
reliable offensive trade at this point, I don't view him
as a high level passer. He had more turnovers than
assists in this postseason run. I think that he struggles
as a post defender. He's a little too thin. He
can get pushed around. I think on the offensive end
(28:40):
of the floor, he can get pushed around a little
bit on the glass. Excuse me, on the defense end
the floor, he can get push around a little bit
on the glass. On the offense end of the floor,
he can't knock down spot up jump shots. He's not
a good decision maker driving closeouts. It's really just like,
can he catch and finish wide open dunks around the basket? Yes,
he can, But everything else he's a little bit inefficient
and a little bit too pro to mistakes. When you
(29:01):
look at the guys that are above him on this list,
they bring like real offensive utility. Bam, as frustrating as
a player as he can be, he brings real offensive utility.
And I just think BAM's a flat out better defensive
player than Chet Holmgren. You look at a guy like
Evan Mobley, I think Chet's a better defender than Evan Mobley.
But Evan Mobley is a substantially better offensive player right
now than Chet Holmgren is. He's a reliable catch and
(29:23):
shoot guy and a guy who can run some action.
To me, Chet will absolutely be very high on this
list one day. I believe in him as an offensive talent.
I think he'll figure all of this stuff out, But
in this particular phase of his career, he's just way
too limited offensively and has a couple of big weaknesses
on defense that I think prevent him from getting higher
on this list. All right, guys, this is all I
(29:45):
have for today is always sincerely appreciate you guys for
supporting me and supporting the show. We will be back
on Monday with our top ten. I will see you
guys now. Yeah,
Host
Jason Timpf
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!