April 5, 2021 • 64 mins
Going to the chapel and we’re gonna get married... maybe! If you’re trying to figure out if you wanna spend the rest of your life with this person or cut your losses and move on to the next (or just run for the hills), this is the episode for you!
Zuri & the Group Chat (Travasha + Leah) are kicking it off — and they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum! We’ve got anti-marriage vs. #wifeyforlifey, and you’ll love the debate. Plus they discuss if a wedding is worth it, and how their childhood/parents crafted their ideas about marriage. There’s also a really random tangent about exchanging cows for women... how did they get there? Help. Get ready for a hilariously honest convo with some majorly different POVs.
Finally, Zuri chats with Beverley Andre, who is an amazing marriage and family therapist. Beverley is going to breakdown signs that you and your partner are (or aren’t) ready for marriage; why love isn’t enough of a reason to get married; and provide expert tips on navigating the “if you like it then you BETTER put a ring on it” conversation with your partner!
Share this episode with a friend, NOW + Let us know your favorite part of the convo: @ZuriHall + @HotHappyMess.
Head over to hothappymess.com for all the show notes mentioned in this episode and for ALL the deets on how to join our exclusive Facebook group!
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Recent episodes: if ya feel like bingeing:
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 12: The Best Sex Ever Episode (What You’ve Been to Shy to Ask!!)
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 9: ...How to Be Single & (Not Just Pretend to) Love It
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 7: It's 2021! Here’s The KEY to a Happier You!
Go back to the beginning --- ICYMI: Listen to Episode 1: How to Be Happy
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hot, happy mess celebrate your magic in the middle of
life's messes. Happy that I'm Zeri Hall and this is
hot happy made shoot. Hello, Hello, what is of I
am Zeri Hall and this is hot happy mess where
(00:29):
we find and celebrate our magic in the middle of
life's messages. Okay, and there are a lot of messes.
I am coming to you live in Living Color from Washington.
If you listen to last week's episode, you know I'm
down here in Tacoma, out here in Tacoma, up here
in Tacoma. I'm geographically challenged, so I can't really confirm
(00:49):
or deny if I'm up, down, or around, but I'm
in Tacoma. We're shooting American into Warrior and it's gonna
be awesome. Season thirteen kicking off on NBC soon shameless plug.
But you know, I'm still bringing the hot, happy mess
energy all day every day, specifically every Monday, but also
all the other days. And we are continuing our love
(01:10):
and relationship series. Last week we were talking about breakups,
right the girlfriend's guy to a breakup. This week we're
talking about the exact opposite. Feel like getting married awesome,
let's talk about it. We are talking about engagement, Why
should I get married if you are thinking about proposing,
if you are thinking about getting proposed to, if you
(01:33):
are trying to figure out do I want to spend
the rest of my life with this person or should
I chalk it up, cut my losses and move on
to the next person to figure out who I should
have spend my life with. I fear not. You're in
good hands, all right. I have a really great show
in store for you. First up, we are kicking it
off with the group chat. I love all of our
group chat conversations because they're so varied, and you know,
(01:58):
none of my best friends have the same opinion. That's
what I love and respect about them. And I love
to learn from them and be challenged by them. And
I love to um challenge also. And today we have
my girl Leah and my girl Trevasha, and they are
breaking down their opinions, their perspectives, their p o vs.
On engagement, on marriage, and let me tell you, they're
(02:21):
on opposite ends of the spectrum. And I loved this conversation.
I think I fall somewhere in the middle. But Trevasha
is very much, you know, pro marriage, and she'll dive
into the reasons why that are really beautiful. And then
Leah is very I could take it or leave it,
and I think she would prefer to leave it, but
I'll let her explain it. And then you have me
(02:41):
somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. So we are
kicking things off with our group chat talking about how
our upbringings and our parents dynamics UH sort of crafted
our ideas about marriage. Trevasha is sharing her amazing and
super adorable and romantic proposal story, and then we are
handing it over to Beverly Andre. She is an amazing
(03:04):
marriage and family therapist who is just gonna break down
signs that you know this could be the one, This
is the person that you could build a life with,
giving us tips on how to build a life with
that person. If you want to get engaged, if you
want to be proposed to, and you're not sure how
to navigate that conversation, Beverly's got the tips for you.
She's got you know, a little something something so you
can kind of like slide the hint over very casually
(03:27):
in a way that does not make your partner run
in the opposite direction. Um. We are also talking about
when it's time to walk away. A lot, a lot,
a lot. You're gonna love these conversations, I promised. So
first up, without further ado, here is the group chat.
Trevasha you are married, Leah you are single. Um, let's
go ahead and kick things off with Trevasha breaking down first,
(03:50):
what was your kind of um perspective when it came
to engagement in marriage? Like, I know obviously like your
Christian upbringing and faith played a lot into how you
decided to approach marriage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
just kind of break it down for us, Um, what
were your thoughts on engagement? And then also we want
to hear the proposal story with Tyler. Okay, so okay,
(04:14):
So my thoughts on marriage, Well, let's just start out
by saying, I have like six parents. I've got current
you know, like a biological mom and a dad. I've
got an ex step mom and ex step dad. I've
got a current stepdad and a current step mom. And
(04:35):
I have relationships with all of them and a lot
of them. Five out of the six have been like
in my life, you know, since I was a kid. So, UM,
I will just start by saying I didn't I didn't
never really had like that set American dream relationship to
(04:57):
like look up to. So marriage just scared for me.
I mean just I know, like you said, my Christian upbringing.
I know that like once you're in it, you know
you're in it. And that was scary to me because
like I wanted to be that, but I didn't see
that anywhere in my life. So how really obtainable was it?
(05:20):
Or is it? Even so it didn't feel like realistic. Yeah,
it's like, oh, this is just like what they put
in movies. Um, Happily ever After anyway. But um, although
I'm only you know, ten years into our relationship, we
just celebrated, don't know, we're about to celebrate our seventh
(05:40):
year of marriage. I can't believe. Don't set yourself short
only ten years like that. I was gonna be like
only teen years. That's like nine years longer than most congratulations. Well,
because to me, I'm looking at like the old like
mom pops and They're we've been togather for sixty five years,
(06:02):
and I'm like, oh, yes, I do want that. I
want to want to be with Tyler for sixty five years.
You know, Um, are you doing currently? Still on the road?
You know, we're doing great, We're good. Do you keep
getting stronger? I will say, um, but that that's the relationship,
(06:26):
like I want to be in, and um, I do
feel like I'm in and so I, um, I do
feel like I found that person who I'm able to
obtain those goals that I you know, see in other
long term marriages. Um. And so let's see my engagement
(06:47):
story or the proposal story. Um. Well, Tyler told me
later on that he wanted to like rent some kind
of like who was it, like a hot air ball
He wanted to like rent a hot air balloon. And
he wanted to have like this like big production. And
(07:09):
while that is for some people, zuri, Um, that kind
of production is like not big on me. Um, so
I just joined. Um what he did was he ended
up just having like a whole day planned in the
(07:30):
day started with us just going to church. His family
was like in town. My family was in town, um,
and he you know, just we would just went to church.
It was normal. Every day. Everything was normal. And um,
my church is like really really small, so it's like
(07:51):
and they've all watched me grown up, grow up, so
it's like a family. And at the end like Tyler
went up for like prayer or like to say it
to stimony or something, or to like pray over something,
and it ended up turning into him like talking about
me and our life together and what he wanted for
our future and like how I've made him a better person.
(08:11):
And then he ended up proposing there in front of
my family and my extended family, and I couldn't have
asked for a better um engagement. And then after that
it was like a whole day of just like stuff.
So we went out with my family and the money
that he was going to spend on this random hot
air balloon of he used to um just like buy
(08:35):
all of our meals at this really nice restaurant in Indiana.
And then after the family left, he took me on
a recreation of the first night that we went on
a date. UM. So we went to all these like
different places UM and we got a massage and like
(08:56):
we didn't do that on the first date, but he
just took me or um across all the different places
that we first went when we first started dating, especially
that first night because I remember like we went to
Claude oz Um Irish pub because we weren't actually supposed
to be on a date. It just kind of ing
because everyone else failed on us. So, um, it was
(09:17):
pretty cool to like go back and be like, yeah,
this is awesome. So this has gone for a proposal
story to the week that I got proposed and everything
that happened in it. That was one day, right, Yeah
that was on the one day. Yes, that is a beautiful,
beautiful proposal story and a beautiful race. So leah, Um,
(09:40):
you know, Travasha just talked about the fact that growing
up she didn't have her ideal example in her everyday life,
even though she wanted that for herself. What was it
like for you growing up? Like, what was your example
of what engagement and marriage looked like? Didn't make you
want it? Or did it make you want to run
for the hills? Yeah? So, um, I mean growing up
my we're actually married for thirty five years. Uh. They
(10:04):
only got divorced when I was in my twenties, so
growing up, my whole childhood, Uh, they were married. My
father came from a very religious Roman Catholic upbringing in Wilmington, Delaware,
and my mother from a very Jewish family and queens
and a lot of people didn't show up to the
wedding from either sides. Um, they also kind of had
a non traditional engagement. They had they moved in together
(10:24):
after a few months in grad school and we're just
kind of on the couch and my dad was like,
our families hate that we lived together, or actually they
weren't even telling some of their like one as set
of parents that they were living together because of the
whole religious aspect. And this kind of decided that they
were going to get married. There was no formal engagement,
nothing like that. And then I think within a I
(10:46):
think they were engaged within six months and married within
a year and that lasted a long time. Um, And
growing up, you know, we were really encouraged and I'm
very you know, this is very blessed and fortunate that
I had this upbringing. We were encouraged to think and
be whoever we wanted, whether it was religion or relationships
or whatever it was. Um, I'm sure I think growing
(11:08):
up I always kind of thought I would get married
one day. That's just kind of part of societal norms.
You know, we're we're taught that we're supposed to do that.
And then as only as I've gotten older have I
started or in my twenties, have I started rethinking that
ce Leah, you you were just talking about, you know,
your upbringing and how that kind of shaped your your
(11:32):
p o V. When it comes to this world and
set engagement, it's marriage. Um, where do you currently stand
when it comes to what you want for yourself for
your future? Yeah? So I really should preface this, but
this is my own personal beliefs for myself, not necessarily
for anybody else. But I don't believe in marriage. Uh
(11:52):
it's really the paperwork portion that uh freaks me out,
for lack of a better term. Um, As I was
saying a second ago, you know, I always thought that
I was going to get married as growing up, just
because that's, you know, what we're supposed to do, right.
And I remember in my early twenties, I was in
a conversation with two women and we were talking about marriage,
(12:13):
and one of them asked me, why do you want
to get married? And I realized in that moment that
I just wanted a wedding, and that is, yeah, not
a good enough reason to get married anyone was wondering. Um.
And from that conversation I really just started to evaluate,
(12:35):
you know, what's important to me? Um, what is not
for me? Uh? And and actually really dig into the
history around marriage and how that was created. Um. And
the more and more I looked into it, and the
more and more I thought about it, and the more
and more I broke up with men over and over again,
was I like, you know what I You know, love
and partnership and collaboration and all of those things are
(13:00):
definitely something that I want. It's really just the legally
binding paperwork portion that is not for me. M m.
And what is it about it being legally binding that
is not for you? Or that maybe do you just
feel like, what's the point. I don't need it to
be legally binding to choose someone every day? Like what
is your perspective on that? Yeah? I mean exactly what's
(13:23):
the point. Why are you legally binding yourself to another person?
Um in that way? So I don't know if you
know this, but marriage was created as an exchange of property,
daughters being that property in exchange for cows. That's how
like that's what the original dowry was. Yeah, So the
(13:44):
original when you say originally, like do we know like
what century were talking? What countries? Who? Who's doing this
who's switching out chickspea cows? Um. Yeah, we're talking BC.
Like thousands of years ago, farmers would promise their daughters
two men in exchange for cattle. Um. So that's how
(14:06):
it started. You know, let me ask, I just I
got a fact check here that you might be right
about that. I don't know, but was it that or
was it that upon marriage a dowry was given in exchange?
And so when a woman is betrothed, there's an exchange
of goods as the dowry or the bridal gift. You know,
(14:28):
that's a really great, great question, and I think it's both.
I think it was both, depending on the circumstances. Yeah,
I did make sure to do a little bit of
reserves before. I just happy to talk about this. I
was like this really yes, um, And so that was
just like one part of it. But I mean, look
like again, my parents were together for thirty five years.
(14:49):
That's amazing, right, at least twenty five of those, according
to them, was happy. But when they got divorced, like
that ship was messy when it came to specifically the
paperwork porson, you know what I mean, like financial divides
and things like that. Like now they're friends, they're cool,
we can all hang out together. It's really really great.
They talk a lot. It's a new normal. Um. But
(15:10):
every situation that I've seen, at least in my life,
and I realized that that's subjective. The biggest issues were
around the paperwork part, the financial assets splitting. So I
guess I should say, like, Okay, if for some crazy reason,
like I fell in such love with the man and
he needed to get married and it was a deal
breaker for him, and like I wouldn't like, I don't
(15:32):
want to lose him, so fine, I'll do it, which
hopefully does not happen. But if that were to be
the case, then I'd be like, all right, well we're
throwing more paperwork on top of that, we are getting
a prenup and that is not negotiable. Yeah, okay, okay,
I expected I get it. You know. I relate to you, well,
I relate to both of you in different ways. So
with Travasha, like when I was growing up, my parents
(15:54):
were married for many years, twenty something years, and they
were married throughout my life. So we grew up in
a two parent house, old and there was a ton
of love there. Me, my two brothers and my parents, UM,
and then they ended up divorcing my freshman year of college,
which um certainly had a sort of effect on me.
Like I left they were married, and then they dropped
me off at school, and then I remember coming back
(16:14):
for Christmas break and I was like, wait, hold on,
where does everybody live? Where is that where? So like
there was something and I say it jokingly and like
everything's fine, but it's certainly I only realized in hindsight,
with reflection, how that kind of affects you, you know
in certain ways. You know, to have a homebi one way, leave,
come back after a few months and like everything as
(16:36):
you know, it is different now. I will also say,
like my parents and I are so close. They're still
friends to this day. My mom's afraid of entrance ramps
on the freeway, so my dad takes her to the
airport when she's coming to visit me. They come out
together and hang with me. So like, I love that
they have done a really good job of getting back
to a place of love for us, and like not
(16:58):
co parenting because we're adults, but very much feels like
a blended family who all still very much respect and
love one another. But that's not to say that it
wasn't difficult for me, um, growing up in my later years,
because even though my parents were together, I always kind
of felt a little bit of a sense of like, Okay,
maybe they're staying together for us, for the kids. Like
(17:20):
they got along generally, but I didn't grow up necessarily
when seeing a ton of like like overly like physical
affection and stuff like that. But like they were like friends,
they hung out, we had a lot of good times together. Um.
And then when they divorced, you know it, I started
reflecting on what is marriage? How is it supposed to
(17:41):
a lot? It's it was supposed to last forever. That's
what they've been telling me growing up. When I say they,
I mean you know, um, my friends, my family, my church,
all of all of the people, and um, Suddenly I
was like, damn, things don't always last forever. And here
was this real and concrete thing right in front of
me screaming that at me. Not my parents. Obviously they
(18:04):
were very kind of loving through that process, um, but
the facts of the situation and it kind of like
shook me up to where I was like, oh my god,
there's so much hurt through the undoing of something that
was so deeply um binded UM that that scared me
for a little while. And I certainly even to this day,
I get a little bit anty about like, oh my gosh,
(18:26):
Like we can say forever, but things don't always last forever.
And I think, you know, particularly children who have witnessed
the divorce or separation of parents, UM kind of have
to live with that shadow and do a lot of
self work to do it, which honestly I wasn't really
tripping that much, but I would be. I'd be laying
an o thick to say that I had to do
(18:47):
a time of self work about it, But yeah, I
did have to kind of revisit what I believed to
be true about marriage and what I looked at it
as and if I believed in it still as an
institution that I was signed up for um and commit
to forever with someone. And I've gotten to the point
where I I've leaned into that and I am more
(19:08):
of Travash's mind in the sense of I would like that,
and I have hope for that, and the worst thing
that happens is that doesn't happen, that my hope does
not come true. But as someone who dreams big and
hopes loudly and often, this is one of those hopes
that I have. And you know, all you can do
is try your best. But that's kind of my perspective
(19:29):
on it, um. But I hear you because a part
of me, Leah is like like the legality of it, right,
the paperwork. That's what gets ugly when it's suddenly like
you have to negotiate, you have to be in a
court telling a stranger your business so that that stranger
can decide who gets the kids and win. And it's
so intrusive and it's just so painful and it could
(19:49):
technically be unnecessary had you not gone into a legally
binding agreement. But then I also get how you kind
of need legally binding agreements for you can end up
that way anyway. You don't have to have a marriage
to go end up in court fighting over your kids.
You're right, that is so right. And I saw you, Bosh.
I saw you when Leah was first talking about the
(20:10):
um how marriage originated based on her research and kind
of that stuff, you were like making a Vosh face.
So perspective on that, and again this is we're all friends,
so it's all like respectfully and from a loving place.
But I love that we all have different perspectives and
stories and ideas and opinions. And honestly, I'm kind of
(20:30):
really excited now because I think it's gonna make for
a really good group chat because we all have different
opinions that sometimes do not align. So what were you
disagreeing with, Vosh with your face? Well, okay, so part
of that Vosh face was Leah's video went out and
I could not hear her, and all I could hear
was like your commentary to what she was saying. I'm like,
(20:52):
what the hell is she saying? Over there? We're talking about?
But there was a part of it that I heard
at the beginning. Leah was saying, you know, like, what
is marriage beside? It's just like a piece of paper,
and um, it's it's more than that. Um. You know
(21:13):
when I got married, did I feel differently the next day? No,
you feel like the exact same. You just feel like,
like you said, you had a big party and that
was great. All your friends and family were there, it
was awesome. No, you don't feel differently the next day,
but there is something that over time, it just it changes,
(21:36):
there's something that changes your relationship. It feels different, it
feels more committed, um And honestly, like I felt like
closer in my relationship with Tyler. And then as years
go on, we get through um humps, we get over
(21:58):
humps and over you know, issues, We go through things,
and we we approach our next you know little pill
that we've got to get through together, and we're like,
oh my gosh, like this is huge. What Like I
don't know if we're gonna be able to do this?
Like how are we going to get through this? And
(22:19):
you work together and you get through it. You you
are just committed. It's not as easy to walk away.
You can say you're committed. But then when I think
when you're actually like really committed, like legal like you're
legally committed. Everyone knows you're committed. I don't know, it's
just it feels differently. But when we get to those
(22:42):
those problems and we're like, okay, what are we gonna do?
Like this is hard, This is a problem that maybe
if we were not married, we could easily, um, you know,
just split up. And I'm not I'm not saying that lightly.
Like real things have come up in our marriage. But you,
like I said, are committed, and you work through them
together and you get over that because of both of
(23:06):
you being that committed, and you know both of you
are that committed because you both agreed to do something
that is so permanent. And then once you get past
it and you get to the next little you know
hill that you're gonna have to get through, and you
look back at the last one, you're like, well, I
thought that one was really huge, but now this one's
(23:27):
the huge one that we have to get over. So
let's work together to get to get over this one.
And as you do that, it's just for us at least,
it just seems like our relationship gets even stronger and
even more loving. And then when you throw in like
zeries group chats and you get like the sex therapist
on here, I mean, then it just you must change
(23:50):
your lives, all right? Every Monday New episodes like I
was gonna ask you Bosh about that about whether you
know I was going to play Devil's Advocate and be like, okay,
well do you just think that because you're technically married,
it's deeper. It feels deeper. But then you eventually got
to the part where you said no, quite literally, because
(24:12):
we are legally tied to one another. We're in it
in a way that we might have been tempted to
just drop the mic had we not legally invested in
one another. And so sometimes the legality and the paperwork
is what has kept us there. And then we get
on the other side of it and we're stronger for
it and deeper in love for it. But I can't
(24:34):
say for sure that we wouldn't have pieced out had
we not been legally tied up in the paperwork. And
I could see that. Leah, do you have what do
you think about that? Do you have response? Yeah? I
I you know, I hear everything Trevasha is saying, and
I really acknowledge that. And it's actually not the first
time I've heard that before, um, from somebody that did
(24:54):
not get legally married. I have a girlfriend and she
told me, she's like, we had the big what, we
had the commitment ceremony, we just didn't sign the paperwork,
and sure enough, after a couple of years they just split.
And she said it's as she thinks that if they
had actually on the paperwork portion and got the marriage license,
maybe they would have stuck it out. So it's a
(25:15):
really interesting perspective. I think that she's absolutely right. I
will say, like, I want all those things that she
just said. I want a relationship that grows and it's
got its up and downs and you get through those
downs together and they make you stronger and more secure
in your partnership. Um. It still doesn't change my mind
(25:36):
about the marriage license portion, even though I think that
she's right on the money which what she is talking about. UM,
But yeah, those those are my thoughts on that. I'm
still I'm still standing firm in my team no marriage.
But I do want the wedding in the you know,
like that one day, but I want the party now.
But I still you know, I throw a good way,
(25:58):
Yes you do, and I can outwait to attends. Um
before I let you guys go. Just out of curiosity,
this one was a little bit on a lighter note,
in a bit of a pivot. But I'm just curious
to know what each of you believes about lifetime partnerships,
Like do you believe in soulmates? Do you believe in
twin flames? Do you believe that there's one person for
you or that any that a few different people could
(26:19):
end up being the one. Do you believe in horoscopes? Okay,
I want hunder Pism believe in horoscopes for sure. In fact,
to elaborate, I don't know have Do you too have
the pattern? App? I did have it. It's super deep
divy that app like sees into I don't know if
(26:39):
I believe in like soulmates and one person for everybody,
Like I think that there are people that are better
suited for others, and maybe there are some matches in
the stars, but I don't think it's necessarily just one.
But the pattern, app Ladies, I mean, this thing just
like tears into your soul. It knows everything about you.
It's really beautiful. And I actually, um, I've been dating
(27:01):
someone for a couple of months who he's actually need
the big update. Yeah, offline, I'll tell you a little
bit more. Um and here, And he's the one that
told me about the pattern. He was like downloaded and
he added me and obviously within five minutes, I like
did the whole like are we compatible thing, and it
really said we are. It's I mean, it really said
(27:22):
amazing things about us. Like we were talking about it later,
We're like we're reading it looking for something that's bad,
and even like the trials and tribulations portion of it
was so like great, it was like it's it's literally
said the same thing about both of us, where sometimes
career will come before relationships and you just have to
give that other person's space and we're like, oh yeah, uh.
(27:43):
And that's just like a small example. But I do
absolutely believe in horoscopes and astrology when it comes to
love and partnerships, not only in romantic relationships, but friendships
as well. Um, I just don't necessarily know about actual
soul bates. I'm open to it. Yeah, what wait with
your sign? Leah again? Are you sorry? I'm a Libra
(28:06):
October just away, I know who you are. So I'm
a tourist. Um And I might contradict myself here a
little bit because I don't like, I'm not sure that
(28:27):
you know there's only like one person for somebody. Um,
I feel like there's many different people that you may
be compatible with and could like have a great life
with and have a long, happy, healthy marriage with, or
(28:48):
just relationship in general. Um. So, I feel like soulmates
are something that's kind of like made up in the
movies and this is what it's supposed to be like.
But at the same time, um, and here's where I'm
contradicting myself. At the same time, I feel like God
does have a plan for us. Um the universe has
(29:09):
a plan, whatever you wanna call it, there is a
plan for us. And um, I do feel like having
that person that does work with you that you can't
build a happy, healthy life with is a part of
that plant. Um. So I guess call it what you want.
I guess I'm just like a walking oxymoron. But that's
(29:30):
my thoughts on soulmates. And then when it comes to
like horoscopes and stuff, See, I'm weird in all of
the like super religious. Um. I say religious because it's
the ones that like, you have to do this this way,
like they're gonna hate me for saying this. But I
feel like, um, there's some correlations with you know, when
(29:57):
people are born and all that stuff, just because there
it's so much of it's too much of a coincidence
for most of the people who are like this sign
are born whenever to have like these same kinds of characteristics,
it's just like too coincidental. And for me, I know,
that you know, in the Bible, it says like the universe, Um,
(30:19):
God was created. God created the universe and everything in
it for people. So when we like look at the
stars and that kind of stuff. Um. While while I'm
not like worshiping the stars, are living my life like
based on what the stars are doing, UM, I do
feel like there's some correlations within them, and I think
(30:41):
that we it is okay to like use them, um,
within reason to to maybe interact with other people or
to help you better help better understand other people, um,
so that you can you know, help them or whatever.
So that's great thoughts. I wouldn't like base my love
(31:02):
life on horoscopes or any other random whatever telling me
that this is like what you should be doing because
based on this wind and da da da. And I'm
not I'm not like talking bad about anyone that does that.
I'm just saying for me personally, that's what I do. Yeah, No,
I agree, I understand that. And actually I think it's
(31:25):
a really good point that you bring up as far
as this synergy, right, Like, I think traditionally a lot
of people have been conditioned to or raise to believe
like it has to be one or the other this
or that, Like, I don't think anything about what you
said makes it n oxymoron or makes your perspective paradoxical. Um.
If anything, it was really kind of enlightening kind of affirmation,
(31:48):
like you saying, I don't you don't have to choose
between your Christian faith and you believing that God made
this universe is beautiful universe for us, um, Like that
doesn't negate astrology, g right, or it doesn't have to
negate astrology or believing that the stars, the constellations, the
way the universe works is also um in a way
(32:08):
that can serve us and help us in our relationships
every day. So it's actually a really interesting perspective yah
um pov that you bring that. It's like something for
me to think about too, and to both of your
points also, so to both of your points, like maybe
it's the labra in me. I hate making decisions, um
so but I don't. I don't. One of the reasons
I hate making decisions is because I often want to
(32:30):
do more than one thing. Um. It's been that way
my whole life. So instead of choosing between one or
the other, I go both. And I think that that
that whole mindset can really apply to what the both
of you just said. And I think that's really important, um,
for us to consider. You need to choose yes, no, exactly,
that's exactly. And with that, I will say I definitely
(32:52):
read my horoscope and I am gim and I talked
about him like everything's true. Everything you read about to
germanis in a relation ship is true. Shot, it's upstairs
and I'm just like, oh my god, there are four
of us in this house. But it's a lot of
fun and we've finally gotten into the rhythm of what
four four sides and one relationship looks like in a
(33:12):
good way that is like calm and sustainable because we
are both just like like all over the blazes of
running around. It is literally two sets of twin kids
in a way that is really fun that point, um.
But I definitely it's uncanny sometimes just how spot on
the horoscopes can be. But then sometimes you get to
like you're gonna walk outside and that sun is gonna
(33:34):
shine and someone's gonna get you upset today, but don't
worry because you just keep persevering and remember tomorrow is better,
and someone will be like, oh my god, that is
exactly what happened yesterday, and they're just like like what
what did I even just read? But I've also had
some horoscopes y'all where I'm like, they just said some stuff,
(33:57):
they like laid it out, it was specific, and it
was really like happened or had already happened, and it
was kind of wild. But that is the ultimate tangent
um to kind of like circle back around for me.
I agree with you, guys. I don't necessarily subscribe to
the idea that there is this one person out here
and are we're just living our life until we finally
(34:19):
stumble into them, and the universe is gonna find a
way to drop that one human on planet Earth in
front of us. I think, you know, multiple people have
the opportunity to be the one. I think we're incompatible
long term with more people than were compatible with. But
I think when you find someone who, um, you know,
provide synergy to your life and they've done enough work
(34:42):
and are self aware enough to show up in a
mature and healthy and happy way, I think in that sense,
a lot of people could become the one, and then
once they are the one, they're the one. Right Like
in that sense. It's like I can look at you,
looking looking into your eyes and be like you are
the one. But that's because I'm actively making that choice,
which to me is more empowering because it's not like, oh,
(35:07):
I just stumbled into this and like finally found you,
like thanks Universe for dropping them off. It's like, no,
I've been around, I've lived my life, I've I've broken up,
I've made up, I've broken up, I've grown and evolved,
and I am actively choosing you as my one, as
my person, which I think is romantic in a different
(35:29):
sense of the word. Absolutely choosing someone. Yeah. Yeah, So Leah,
if people want to keep up with you, first of all,
let them know what's going on with you in your world,
what you're doing, and then also where they can follow you. Yeah,
what's going on with me in my world? Well, I
got a lot going on right now. I mean, really
great things career wize, I'm about to launch a production
(35:50):
company in the next couple of months, which I'm really
excited about, um and a few other amazing things. Uh.
So you can follow me on Instagram a double underscore
Leah Elizabeth double underscore, and on a really tweet So
that's it. There. We got thank you, and you can
find me on Instagram and TikTok at Life of Assassy
(36:13):
Stu and also life at assassy stew dot com. And
let's see, nothing much really happening in my world these days. Tornadoes,
tornadoes and tornadoes. We just had a crazy tornado and
it just kind of swept our little town. So just
(36:33):
trying to figure all of that out. So yeah, I'm
also going back to work soon, um, and I've been
out since January, so I'm a little nervous about that,
leaving my little baby. For those who don't know, I
am a flight attendant and so I've been out of
work since January because I went out before the pandemic
(36:58):
started because I had a beautiful baby girl all and
now I'm actually having to go back soon next month.
So I just want to say thanks for having me z.
It's always great to be on here and I love
chatting with y'all. Thank you, v Thank you so much
for joining too. It's always a pleasure love y'all. Thank
(37:21):
you again to Travasha and Leah for sharing their journeys,
their perspectives, their history. Don't forget to follow them on
Instagram And in the meantime, let's pivot. Shall we should
we eat a little expert opinion? Should we have Beverly
Andre way in on how we navigate this whole rank thing?
(37:41):
I think so, Next up, Beverly Andre. Beverly Andre, also
known as your Favorite Marriage and Family Therapist, is a
licensed marriage and family therapist and CEO slash founder of
The Heart Counseling Services. As a relationship and emotional intimacy expert,
Beverly partners with millennial couples who struggle with communication and
(38:05):
prioritizing their relationships. Here's Beverly, Well, Beverly, This episode of
Hot Happy Mess is all about engagement, all about you know,
the rings. Some might say chasing the ring. I don't
love that phrase, uh kind of just what it implies.
In my humble opinion, it feels um, oh god, I
don't want to say desperate. It just doesn't sound like
(38:28):
what I think of when I think about, you know,
being with someone for the rest of my life. But um,
when it comes to engagement, when it comes to two
people deciding to spend the rest of their lives together
as um, you know, a licensed marriage and family therapist,
what do you see most often, uh is the deciding factor.
(38:48):
Do you feel that most people are stepping into this commitment,
you know, as to people who are healthy and whole
and just want to go to the next level, or
do you also see a lot of people who um
reach a certain name and realize or maybe think, you
know what, it's time for me to do this if
I'm never going to do it now the time. I
think it's actually both. In my work with couples, I've
(39:10):
seen folks who are like, by the time that I'm thirty,
I want to have a partner, I want to have
children by the time I'm thirty five. So it's very
methodical in terms of this is how they perceive that
their life should look like. And you know that that's
not really problematic if you have somebody else who agrees
(39:30):
with you in the same manner, But typically that doesn't happen. Um,
so you have people who are like, well, I'm in
love with you, and I want us to be a family.
I want us to you know, enjoy life experiences under
the title of marriage. And so when you have those
two frame works, they typically contradict each other. And then
so now you have to kind of figure out already
(39:53):
how do both of you get your knees met um
based off of your individual values? And when it comes
to values, that's the thing we talk about a lot
here on the podcast. UM defining our core values, realizing
that what works for me might not work for you.
What I prioritize you might not prioritize, and vice versa. UM,
(40:13):
what are some of those values in the context of
engagement and long term partnership? Just to get people's um,
you know, thoughts running and kind of get their minds
jogging about I kind of want to sit down with
myself and figure out what my values might be for
a long term partnership. So funny enough, it's more centered
(40:35):
well what I've come across and I can only secret
myself and the couples that I work with. It's more
centered around the business of marriage. Right, So when it
comes okay, who can I build with? Right? Who can um,
I achieve this dream life that I am envisioning When
it comes to creating a family, does this person? Can
I see this person as a cool parent? Can I
(40:57):
see this person as a good parental figure for the
next generation? Essentially, so it's less of uh emotional UM
decision that that that drives through. I think people recognize
at a base level that no love for different people
ebbs and flow like you may love your partner, but
(41:17):
that this mean you will always like them. So you
have to think about what listen. So you have to
think about what is it that's going to keep you
there in the long haul? Right? What's the quality of
our friendship? Do we have UM enough mutual interests that
we can actually bond over things and still have our
(41:38):
differences that keeps you interested UM and also all the
other things that I mentioned before. I love that you
bring that up, keeping in mind not just the emotional
aspect of this, but the fundamentals, the basics, the technicalities
of it, of entering a partnership and taking UM seriously
the part of it that is partnership. It is it
(42:00):
safe to say that love is not enough of a
reason to get married. Love is not enough of a
reason to get married, because if that was the case, UM,
a lot of people wouldn't be getting divorced. There's a
lot of people who have not gotten married with UM,
someone that they were in love with at some point
in time in their lives because there were other aspects
(42:23):
that were factoring into does this person fit as a
longtime partner for me? Right? Um, it's so much bigger.
And I think that while it is romantic, that's what
folks like to say, like, Oh, I'm so a loved
I can't live without you. You can't lear saw that person. Actually,
actually you can't live without that person. Um, because love
(42:47):
is not enough when troubles come, right, when financial situations happen,
when you deal with sickness, when you deal with all
the not so great things that comes with being in
a long term or they fationship with someone right and
so um. Some of the couples that that I have
worked with, I remember one guy was like, if it
(43:08):
was up to my feelings, I would have left right
straight up. Because sometimes that's it. He said, if it
was up to my feelings, I would have left because
I don't know the last time I fell in love
with my wife and I remember asking what kept you
and he said, she's my best friend. Like, I don't
think there's anyone out here in the world right now
(43:30):
who knows me the way that she knows me. We
have children together, we have built a business together. Those
things are anchoring me to be motivated to try a
little bit harder. Right now, my feelings are not in
alignment with all the other things. It's not an anchor
right now. Wow. Wow, Honestly, I hear that and I
(43:51):
get chills because that, to me sounds like real commit
That sounds like the marriage of it all, right, that
sounds like the lifetime partnership of it all. It's really
easy to stick around when we're feeling good and the
butterflies are just flapping their wings and easy breezy. But
when you look up and say, I don't feel any
of that right now, and I'm still choosing you who
(44:15):
or I'm trying to choose you, I'm trying to choose.
I'm trying to choose us. Because at some point in time,
obviously I agreed to into this relationship with you. I
agreed to um, I made a decision to get married
with you. So there's something at the foundation that is
there of there's something that I saw in you way
(44:37):
back when, right and for whatever reason, however life has
played out because people oftentimes forget that who you married,
however long ago, is out who you're currently with, right,
Because we change every day, We change every day we
have different experiences that mold us as people, and so
you have to be willing to continuously study your partner, right,
(45:00):
and sometimes it does get a little bit harder to
study your partner. Sometimes we do procrastinate when it comes
to taking initiative to understanding who we are with because
we're distracted but all the things that are happening in life.
And so when that becomes a pattern, and that becomes
repetitious and you don't remember the last time you slowed
yourself down and tapped into you or you talk into
(45:21):
your partner, it makes sense why those feelings are not
in alignment because it's not being prioritized, so you're not
nurturing it, you know what I mean. I'm glad that
you bring that up, the idea of nurturing and checking
in with your partner and being really actively engaged in
the relationship. Um, what is some of the prep work
that you recommend to you know, some of your the
(45:44):
couples that you make counsel or people you've worked with
when it comes to preparing for a lifetime partnership or
a marriage, whether they're about to enter engagement or currently engage.
What can we be doing to work on ourselves and
support our owners working on themselves to make sure that
when we step down that aisle when we say I
(46:05):
do we really feel it in our bones that we
know what that means. Right. That's an awesome question, um,
because I think a lot of folks will think about, well,
as long as we do Premier to counseling, then we're good. Right.
But it's more than just Premier to counseling. And I
offer that as a service, and I tell my couples
(46:25):
that Premier counseling is not not that it's not, but
you shouldn't look at it as Okay, this is the
thing that we have to check out, like this is
a seal the deal. We're definitely meant to be if
we do well in counsel and we have got a
page and I'm like, no, it's not about You're not
(46:46):
being assessed about Premier to counseling. What you get in
that in those sessions you get some strategies that you
maybe have not been introduced to before. Right. And so
I always tell my puples that with the premarital counseling
services with me, you actually get one free check in
within the first year, right, A lot of people don't
(47:08):
realize that in the first year there's so many changes.
If a couple has lived together or hasn't, it doesn't matter.
Once you become married, the dynamics change. So you could
have been living with that person for years and years
and years, and you start noticing, Okay, some of our
expectations that come with these titles are now changing the
dynamics in our home. Right, And I tell them, like,
(47:29):
I want you to understand that this is a lifetime
of checkens. Right, that the same way you take care
of a car and you have the maintenance, it's gonna
run really well if you're you know, getting that tune
up every three thousand miles, right, if you're being intentional
about the mechanics and how well your car is working.
But if you're driving and you're getting so distracted by
(47:50):
you know, everything that you're seeing on the outside. You're
looking at you know, the tree, they're gonna everything else,
and you're ignoring that you have that check in July,
or you're ignoring that little sound and my engine died.
But we're right, right, you're looking at everything else outside
(48:14):
of the vehicle that you are in. And it's so
easy to you know, you get used to seeing at
the peripheral. Yeah, that check in jo line. But I'll
deal with it later. I'll deal with it later. Right, So,
when you lose that intention and you forget that, I
don't have to go to we don't have to go
to a couple of different because there's a huge problem.
But it's okay for us to have that maintenance, for
(48:34):
us to be able to check in with each other
and ourselves individually. And a lot of times when we
start being intentional, when we stopped being intentional about ourselves right,
primary as an individual, and then now we're having all
these feelings that come with not prioritizing so and then
you start projecting that on your partner, right, and now
(48:54):
that's affecting your relationship because you're feeling resent me at
the fact that you haven't had time to just be that,
you haven't had time to pour into your own cup.
And now you're upset because when you made the choice
to be with that person, you also make the choice
to be responsible for the quality of that relationship and
you can't slack off with that person. But then you
end up doing it right at the expense of you,
(49:16):
and so there's this weird tension that that starts to
build in the relationship that could be mitigated if you
were intentional about pouring into self, which makes it so
much um, not so much easier, but you have more
capacity to pour into your partner, if that makes sense.
So UM, you you talk about the check ins, you
(49:38):
talk about being intentional with your partner heading into this. UM.
Some people may consider premarital counseling. Some may not. I
like that that idea that UM, that challenge to really understand,
like this isn't just check those boxes, Okay, you're all clear,
you get a you can get married now past this
is an opportunity for you to really understand who you're
(50:00):
airing and how you need to show up for them
and vice versa. UM. For those who maybe used to
do the counseling, but maybe you don't. If we want
to navigate conversations with our partner individually, UM, what what
does creating that space look like in the relationship for
maybe let's say, okay, let's say even we can talk
about I'll make it personal with me and my boyfriend. Right,
(50:20):
we've been together for about two years now. We talk
about marriage, we talk about engagement. That's a direction that
we're intentionally headed um outside of therapy. What sort of
weekly check ins, what sort of conversation starters should we
be having right now as we try on this um
(50:40):
this hoodie of you know, engagement or life like as
we see if it fits and see what it feels like.
I absolutely love the fact that you use that betaphor
that was everything UM when he was to create the
space right, like the whole space for your partner, and
he's like, well, how do you do that? How do
you hold space for your partner? Right? And so I
(51:03):
think about I think about what are the barriers to
communication in the relationship? Right? Um? If you know that
you want to talk about marriage right and you are
unsure how your partner is going to receive it, I
want people to think about, Okay, what is giving you pause?
Do you feel like your partner's not going to receive
it so you feel like they're gonna judge you, Do
(51:24):
you feel like they're gonna shut you down? Think about
what it is that that that that gives you pause,
and then share that with your partner and say, hey,
I really want to talk to you about this topic,
but I have reservations, right, I have reservations about how
you're gonna act, how you're gonna think, how you're gonna
respond to me. And I don't want that to be
(51:45):
the pattern in our relationship that if I feel like
there's something I want to talk to you about, that
I can't do that because I'm concerned about when I
tell you your body language might be very off putting
to me. And now I'm second guessing whether or not
I should even bring us up with you. So now
that person is responsible for Okay, how can I be
(52:05):
more aware of my body language to ensure that my
partner feels safe enough to come speak to me about
things that are on their mind? Right? We think about
how do we communicate and we're gonna do conflict resolution? Right?
Do I turn away from my partner when we're talking
and that messages to them that I don't care about
what they're saying? Am I looking at my partner? Right? Um?
(52:28):
When my partner tells me something and I don't understand it,
Am I asking clarifying questions to understand? Or am I
just listening to disrebut you right? Right? Because we have
to think about intention. What is it that you want.
(52:48):
What is it that you're seeking from your partner? Are
you seeking to understand? Are you seeking to be right?
And if you're seeking to be right, that means there's
a level of respect that you don't have for your
partner's emotions. It is not up to you to say
that your partner's emotions are right or wrong. It's up
to you to understand them, to understand what is it
(53:10):
connected to. Because a lot of times when we do
communicate with people, we have our own past experiences that
inform the way that we do communicate. Right, So if
we're gonna try to create space for our partner, we
have to think about what are those barriers to creating
that space? What does my partner need in order to
be vulnerable with me? Right? How can I nurture their vulnerability?
(53:31):
How can I protect them in this space so that
they know that I'm not here to attack them, but
I'm here to support them. I love that you bring
that up and the way that you lay that out
so clearly, because that's a technique that you know, my
boyfriend Shawn and I have learned is I think are
they call it the spotlight technique of Okay, I'm gonna
(53:53):
sit here and I'm going to listen to how you're feeling,
and I'm not gonna go with my gut weight. But
that's not true. Word well, I didn't really do it
like that and kind of let go of the defensiveness
and be like, I'm going to ask you how you're feeling.
I'm going to dig deeper. I'm going to ask follow
up questions. I'm not listening to respond because I don't
know what you've said yet. So unless I have some
(54:16):
preconceived idea about what I need to get across, I
can't have any um. I can't know how this conversation
is gonna go because you haven't fully expressed how how
you felt yet. And in the past, you know we've
certainly fallen into that bad habit. I know friends have
certainly fallen into it too. Of before we even sit
down and talk. I know how this conversation is going
(54:38):
to go on my mind because I know what I
need to say. I need to get it out, and
any matter what you say, because this is what needs
to be saying, because I decided so right, and it
just ends in chaos. It never ends well. But when
you show up in a loving kind way and say
I want to understand you, tell me more. I'm sorry
you felt that way. Why it is wild the differences
(54:59):
we have no is in each other, and then it
sort of softens our own hearts and it makes the
person want to do the thing that you're going to
try to beat them over the head to do, but
now they want to do it willingly. They want to
show up for you because you're coming to them from
a place of love. Right. It's like there's so many
layers to communication and how we show up for people,
(55:22):
and that when it comes to communicating with your partner,
and you have so much as happening internally, right, Um,
some people they have not, They have had past experiences
where conflict or navigating disagreements, they're getting up for an
(55:43):
attack because that's their past experiences. They have never learned
how to resolve a problem in a loving way, how
to be okay with the fact that you will and
your partner are different people. Therefore you will have differences, right,
And that if I am coming to you to navigate
this issue that I have, it's because I'm invested. It's
(56:04):
because I want us to get get over this hump
and get on the other side of things. Right. But
half the time people aren't even aware why they're responding
the way that they're responding. Right, So if they are
able to say, you know what, like in my previous relationships,
anytime I would bring something that my partner would just
shut me down, they'll talk really, really loud. Right, So
if you talk loud to me, I'm shutting down. I'm
(56:29):
not communicating with you. And I need you to be
aware of your volume. I need you to be aware
of your body language because my past experiences that signals
to me that this is gonna go left someone to
disengaged to save myself so that it doesn't escalate. Right.
So when we start understanding why our behaviors or how
our behaviors are connected to our emotional responses, then we're
(56:50):
able to show up a little bit better. We're able
to show up in a healthier way so that we
can go ahead and navigate this right. And if you
feel the urge to defend yourself as I'm talking to you,
you probably have experiences where you've had to defend yourself
or somebody probably lied on you, or you know, diver
any things like that. So now you don't even know
how to be patient with hearing me because you're so
(57:11):
to just how to defend, how to protect myself, I
how to make sure she understands or he understands that
I was. You know, it's just so much. But when
you really just say, Okay, I'm gonna work on my
breathing right because a lot of times people hold their
breath during disagreements. I'm gonna make sure I have some
airflow going in right, right to make sure that my
(57:31):
heart is actually, you know, the heart rate is slow down,
and that I'm recognizing. I do feel the need to
say something right now, but I want to listen because
I want to understand him or her. And then once
they're done talking, Hey babe, so I just want to
make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say X,
(57:51):
Y and Z and the partners like, yeah, that's what
I said. Okay, cool. I just want to make you
honesstood or if they didn't understand, well they know, like
this is what I was really trying to say. Right
until you get to the point where y'all both understand,
and then now you move on to and share what
you have to say, right, because if we're moving forward
in clarity, then we won't have to fall back on
(58:12):
assumption and confusion because that's going to do real other relationship. Right. So, UM,
you know, make the communication Hypothetically, you're in a good place,
You're feeling like I want to commit to this person.
We're doing this. What's maybe one or two signs that
you and your partner might be ready for this next step?
How do you know what's going well? And then maybe
(58:34):
what's a sign or two that you might gently encourage
this couple to reevaluate whether or not they should be
together and take that plunge into your plunge down the
altar I should say, okay, So indicator that you're already
that folks are ready to take that next step, that
there's more we thinking versus I thinking. Right, if I'm
(58:54):
including you more and like my day to day decisions
or I'm considering your thoughts or I'm considering okay, how
does this affect us? You're already having that fusion mentality
versus the eye the eye that I I don't know
about you, what I'm doing this, you get what I'm saying.
That doesn't lend towards um a union if that makes sense? Um,
(59:18):
another sign I think is when people are able to
you know, envigenous future, like hey, like you have conversations,
you know, like when we have kids, right, not yeah,
I don't know how my kids are going to be
your kids, right or so those are like indicators, like
I think just the collectivism of it all, um, signs
(59:41):
that folks should not take the next step. Save save
some folks now, please give them the one we need
to step away. Signs that you should not be with
that person is when there's any conversation about future and
you check out, you are out, You're not You're like, oh, okay, um,
(01:00:02):
you want to talk about I'm good, right, Um, there's
been no indicator. Let's say it's an entanglement. There's no
indicator about seeing what the nature of the relationship is, right,
what's fueling the relationship is confusion. You don't know if
you're going up, down, forward, backwards. Y'all just kicking it, right.
(01:00:26):
And here's the thing. Some folks are like, well, that's
fine too it I don't want to get anything serious.
But even that is a title, right, saying this is
an entanglement, we're just kicking it is right. But if
you're not even trying to do that. You just frolicking
and confusion. Frolicking in confusion. Hello, I'm zero, I'm frolicking
(01:00:52):
in confusion. I love that. There's a really good signs
on both sides of the fence. Um in conclusion, for
for this portion of the conversation. Um, what if you
are the person who is thinking about wedding, engagement, et cetera,
and your partner may or may not be open to it,
you don't know you feel like they would be. How
(01:01:13):
do you kind of how do you suggest someone drop
the hint or you know, male female doesn't matter and
be like I want to engauge your interest in engagement, Like,
how do you bring up that conversation in a way
that's chill? How you just brought it up that was
really smold actually, like for all, Like you know, I
(01:01:36):
mean you can pick the setting, you can set the scene.
You can you know, throw the TV on TLC, y C,
yes to the job. I mean, whatever way you feel
like you need to make it more comfortable for you.
Nothing is going to replace the need for directness. Like
you know what, I am just really interested in knowing,
Like when it comes to us in you know, a
(01:01:59):
future or you know, going to the next level in
terms of commitment, like what do like, what do you see?
And if you don't see anything right now, I mean,
that's fine or whatever, But I'm really interested in knowing,
like where your mind is at, because I think a
lot of times people are like, oh, I don't want
to pressure nobody into doing nothing. I'm like, you can't
pressure any wanted to do anything that they ultimately didn't
(01:02:21):
choose to do. Right. You're responsible for sharing your thoughts,
how you feel, and what you want. That person is
responsible for how they respond to you and how they
show up. Because if you try to think about what
I should say and what I should say based off
of somebody's assumed response, you're gonna get nowhere. Right, And
(01:02:43):
we have to remember that everybody has the power to
do what they want to do in the relationship. You
have the power to show up or to not show
up if you want to, you know, increase the commitment
you I mean, you can only bring you into it.
That person can either step up or step back or
just stay still like there we go. I love that.
(01:03:04):
That's such great advice. Beverly, Thank you so much for
such amazing conversation and your wisdom and sharing your expertise
with our audience. UM, just really quickly share with everybody
specifically where they can find you, where they can reach
out if they're interested in learning more, maybe booking a
session with you. Okay, so on all social platforms, I
(01:03:25):
am under Beverly Andre underscore. That's Beverly with the l
E Y. My mom was, she was fancy and I
actually eat so. Beverly Andre underscore on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. UM,
if anyone's interested in UM therapy services, I do specialize
and working with black and brown couples and women, and
(01:03:46):
you can find me at b Heart Counseling dot com.
B Heart b E with the Heart Counseling dot com.
There we go, Beverly, thank you so much. Thank you, Zuri, Hi,
Kathy is best best, so much good stuff, a lot
of gyms, and I certainly took notes. I'll be applying
that on my own journey. Stay tuned, guys. Thank you
(01:04:09):
Beverley for the amazing conversation. Thank you tra Vasha and
Leah for another dope group chat. You guys don't forget.
If you're loving the podcast, you should definitely leave a
five star review. They help move the needle. You know,
we're trying to get these numbers up, and you guys
have been so overwhelmingly positive with the conversations. I'm so
thankful that you're enjoying the Loving Relationship series. We've got
(01:04:32):
the career and Finance series kicking off pretty soon here.
Um so, if you have any ask Zeri questions for
the Ask Series segment, feel free to shoot Just aligned
hello at hot Happy mess dot com and I will
see you on Monday. By all,
Hot, happy mess celebrate your magic in the middle of
life's messes. Happy that I'm Zeri Hall and this is
hot happy made shoot. Hello, Hello, what is of I
am Zeri Hall and this is hot happy mess where
(00:29):
we find and celebrate our magic in the middle of
life's messages. Okay, and there are a lot of messes.
I am coming to you live in Living Color from Washington.
If you listen to last week's episode, you know I'm
down here in Tacoma, out here in Tacoma, up here
in Tacoma. I'm geographically challenged, so I can't really confirm
(00:49):
or deny if I'm up, down, or around, but I'm
in Tacoma. We're shooting American into Warrior and it's gonna
be awesome. Season thirteen kicking off on NBC soon shameless plug.
But you know, I'm still bringing the hot, happy mess
energy all day every day, specifically every Monday, but also
all the other days. And we are continuing our love
(01:10):
and relationship series. Last week we were talking about breakups,
right the girlfriend's guy to a breakup. This week we're
talking about the exact opposite. Feel like getting married awesome,
let's talk about it. We are talking about engagement, Why
should I get married if you are thinking about proposing,
if you are thinking about getting proposed to, if you
(01:33):
are trying to figure out do I want to spend
the rest of my life with this person or should
I chalk it up, cut my losses and move on
to the next person to figure out who I should
have spend my life with. I fear not. You're in
good hands, all right. I have a really great show
in store for you. First up, we are kicking it
off with the group chat. I love all of our
group chat conversations because they're so varied, and you know,
(01:58):
none of my best friends have the same opinion. That's
what I love and respect about them. And I love
to learn from them and be challenged by them. And
I love to um challenge also. And today we have
my girl Leah and my girl Trevasha, and they are
breaking down their opinions, their perspectives, their p o vs.
On engagement, on marriage, and let me tell you, they're
(02:21):
on opposite ends of the spectrum. And I loved this conversation.
I think I fall somewhere in the middle. But Trevasha
is very much, you know, pro marriage, and she'll dive
into the reasons why that are really beautiful. And then
Leah is very I could take it or leave it,
and I think she would prefer to leave it, but
I'll let her explain it. And then you have me
(02:41):
somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. So we are
kicking things off with our group chat talking about how
our upbringings and our parents dynamics UH sort of crafted
our ideas about marriage. Trevasha is sharing her amazing and
super adorable and romantic proposal story, and then we are
handing it over to Beverly Andre. She is an amazing
(03:04):
marriage and family therapist who is just gonna break down
signs that you know this could be the one, This
is the person that you could build a life with,
giving us tips on how to build a life with
that person. If you want to get engaged, if you
want to be proposed to, and you're not sure how
to navigate that conversation, Beverly's got the tips for you.
She's got you know, a little something something so you
can kind of like slide the hint over very casually
(03:27):
in a way that does not make your partner run
in the opposite direction. Um. We are also talking about
when it's time to walk away. A lot, a lot,
a lot. You're gonna love these conversations, I promised. So
first up, without further ado, here is the group chat.
Trevasha you are married, Leah you are single. Um, let's
go ahead and kick things off with Trevasha breaking down first,
(03:50):
what was your kind of um perspective when it came
to engagement in marriage? Like, I know obviously like your
Christian upbringing and faith played a lot into how you
decided to approach marriage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
just kind of break it down for us, Um, what
were your thoughts on engagement? And then also we want
to hear the proposal story with Tyler. Okay, so okay,
(04:14):
So my thoughts on marriage, Well, let's just start out
by saying, I have like six parents. I've got current
you know, like a biological mom and a dad. I've
got an ex step mom and ex step dad. I've
got a current stepdad and a current step mom. And
(04:35):
I have relationships with all of them and a lot
of them. Five out of the six have been like
in my life, you know, since I was a kid. So, UM,
I will just start by saying I didn't I didn't
never really had like that set American dream relationship to
(04:57):
like look up to. So marriage just scared for me.
I mean just I know, like you said, my Christian upbringing.
I know that like once you're in it, you know
you're in it. And that was scary to me because
like I wanted to be that, but I didn't see
that anywhere in my life. So how really obtainable was it?
(05:20):
Or is it? Even so it didn't feel like realistic. Yeah,
it's like, oh, this is just like what they put
in movies. Um, Happily ever After anyway. But um, although
I'm only you know, ten years into our relationship, we
just celebrated, don't know, we're about to celebrate our seventh
(05:40):
year of marriage. I can't believe. Don't set yourself short
only ten years like that. I was gonna be like
only teen years. That's like nine years longer than most congratulations. Well,
because to me, I'm looking at like the old like
mom pops and They're we've been togather for sixty five years,
(06:02):
and I'm like, oh, yes, I do want that. I
want to want to be with Tyler for sixty five years.
You know, Um, are you doing currently? Still on the road?
You know, we're doing great, We're good. Do you keep
getting stronger? I will say, um, but that that's the relationship,
(06:26):
like I want to be in, and um, I do
feel like I'm in and so I, um, I do
feel like I found that person who I'm able to
obtain those goals that I you know, see in other
long term marriages. Um. And so let's see my engagement
(06:47):
story or the proposal story. Um. Well, Tyler told me
later on that he wanted to like rent some kind
of like who was it, like a hot air ball
He wanted to like rent a hot air balloon. And
he wanted to have like this like big production. And
(07:09):
while that is for some people, zuri, Um, that kind
of production is like not big on me. Um, so
I just joined. Um what he did was he ended
up just having like a whole day planned in the
(07:30):
day started with us just going to church. His family
was like in town. My family was in town, um,
and he you know, just we would just went to church.
It was normal. Every day. Everything was normal. And um,
my church is like really really small, so it's like
(07:51):
and they've all watched me grown up, grow up, so
it's like a family. And at the end like Tyler
went up for like prayer or like to say it
to stimony or something, or to like pray over something,
and it ended up turning into him like talking about
me and our life together and what he wanted for
our future and like how I've made him a better person.
(08:11):
And then he ended up proposing there in front of
my family and my extended family, and I couldn't have
asked for a better um engagement. And then after that
it was like a whole day of just like stuff.
So we went out with my family and the money
that he was going to spend on this random hot
air balloon of he used to um just like buy
(08:35):
all of our meals at this really nice restaurant in Indiana.
And then after the family left, he took me on
a recreation of the first night that we went on
a date. UM. So we went to all these like
different places UM and we got a massage and like
(08:56):
we didn't do that on the first date, but he
just took me or um across all the different places
that we first went when we first started dating, especially
that first night because I remember like we went to
Claude oz Um Irish pub because we weren't actually supposed
to be on a date. It just kind of ing
because everyone else failed on us. So, um, it was
(09:17):
pretty cool to like go back and be like, yeah,
this is awesome. So this has gone for a proposal
story to the week that I got proposed and everything
that happened in it. That was one day, right, Yeah
that was on the one day. Yes, that is a beautiful,
beautiful proposal story and a beautiful race. So leah, Um,
(09:40):
you know, Travasha just talked about the fact that growing
up she didn't have her ideal example in her everyday life,
even though she wanted that for herself. What was it
like for you growing up? Like, what was your example
of what engagement and marriage looked like? Didn't make you
want it? Or did it make you want to run
for the hills? Yeah? So, um, I mean growing up
my we're actually married for thirty five years. Uh. They
(10:04):
only got divorced when I was in my twenties, so
growing up, my whole childhood, Uh, they were married. My
father came from a very religious Roman Catholic upbringing in Wilmington, Delaware,
and my mother from a very Jewish family and queens
and a lot of people didn't show up to the
wedding from either sides. Um, they also kind of had
a non traditional engagement. They had they moved in together
(10:24):
after a few months in grad school and we're just
kind of on the couch and my dad was like,
our families hate that we lived together, or actually they
weren't even telling some of their like one as set
of parents that they were living together because of the
whole religious aspect. And this kind of decided that they
were going to get married. There was no formal engagement,
nothing like that. And then I think within a I
(10:46):
think they were engaged within six months and married within
a year and that lasted a long time. Um, And
growing up, you know, we were really encouraged and I'm
very you know, this is very blessed and fortunate that
I had this upbringing. We were encouraged to think and
be whoever we wanted, whether it was religion or relationships
or whatever it was. Um, I'm sure I think growing
(11:08):
up I always kind of thought I would get married
one day. That's just kind of part of societal norms.
You know, we're we're taught that we're supposed to do that.
And then as only as I've gotten older have I
started or in my twenties, have I started rethinking that
ce Leah, you you were just talking about, you know,
your upbringing and how that kind of shaped your your
(11:32):
p o V. When it comes to this world and
set engagement, it's marriage. Um, where do you currently stand
when it comes to what you want for yourself for
your future? Yeah? So I really should preface this, but
this is my own personal beliefs for myself, not necessarily
for anybody else. But I don't believe in marriage. Uh
(11:52):
it's really the paperwork portion that uh freaks me out,
for lack of a better term. Um, As I was
saying a second ago, you know, I always thought that
I was going to get married as growing up, just
because that's, you know, what we're supposed to do, right.
And I remember in my early twenties, I was in
a conversation with two women and we were talking about marriage,
(12:13):
and one of them asked me, why do you want
to get married? And I realized in that moment that
I just wanted a wedding, and that is, yeah, not
a good enough reason to get married anyone was wondering. Um.
And from that conversation I really just started to evaluate,
(12:35):
you know, what's important to me? Um, what is not
for me? Uh? And and actually really dig into the
history around marriage and how that was created. Um. And
the more and more I looked into it, and the
more and more I thought about it, and the more
and more I broke up with men over and over again,
was I like, you know what I You know, love
and partnership and collaboration and all of those things are
(13:00):
definitely something that I want. It's really just the legally
binding paperwork portion that is not for me. M m.
And what is it about it being legally binding that
is not for you? Or that maybe do you just
feel like, what's the point. I don't need it to
be legally binding to choose someone every day? Like what
is your perspective on that? Yeah? I mean exactly what's
(13:23):
the point. Why are you legally binding yourself to another person?
Um in that way? So I don't know if you
know this, but marriage was created as an exchange of property,
daughters being that property in exchange for cows. That's how
like that's what the original dowry was. Yeah, So the
(13:44):
original when you say originally, like do we know like
what century were talking? What countries? Who? Who's doing this
who's switching out chickspea cows? Um. Yeah, we're talking BC.
Like thousands of years ago, farmers would promise their daughters
two men in exchange for cattle. Um. So that's how
(14:06):
it started. You know, let me ask, I just I
got a fact check here that you might be right
about that. I don't know, but was it that or
was it that upon marriage a dowry was given in exchange?
And so when a woman is betrothed, there's an exchange
of goods as the dowry or the bridal gift. You know,
(14:28):
that's a really great, great question, and I think it's both.
I think it was both, depending on the circumstances. Yeah,
I did make sure to do a little bit of
reserves before. I just happy to talk about this. I
was like this really yes, um, And so that was
just like one part of it. But I mean, look
like again, my parents were together for thirty five years.
(14:49):
That's amazing, right, at least twenty five of those, according
to them, was happy. But when they got divorced, like
that ship was messy when it came to specifically the
paperwork porson, you know what I mean, like financial divides
and things like that. Like now they're friends, they're cool,
we can all hang out together. It's really really great.
They talk a lot. It's a new normal. Um. But
(15:10):
every situation that I've seen, at least in my life,
and I realized that that's subjective. The biggest issues were
around the paperwork part, the financial assets splitting. So I
guess I should say, like, Okay, if for some crazy reason,
like I fell in such love with the man and
he needed to get married and it was a deal
breaker for him, and like I wouldn't like, I don't
(15:32):
want to lose him, so fine, I'll do it, which
hopefully does not happen. But if that were to be
the case, then I'd be like, all right, well we're
throwing more paperwork on top of that, we are getting
a prenup and that is not negotiable. Yeah, okay, okay,
I expected I get it. You know. I relate to you, well,
I relate to both of you in different ways. So
with Travasha, like when I was growing up, my parents
(15:54):
were married for many years, twenty something years, and they
were married throughout my life. So we grew up in
a two parent house, old and there was a ton
of love there. Me, my two brothers and my parents, UM,
and then they ended up divorcing my freshman year of college,
which um certainly had a sort of effect on me.
Like I left they were married, and then they dropped
me off at school, and then I remember coming back
(16:14):
for Christmas break and I was like, wait, hold on,
where does everybody live? Where is that where? So like
there was something and I say it jokingly and like
everything's fine, but it's certainly I only realized in hindsight,
with reflection, how that kind of affects you, you know
in certain ways. You know, to have a homebi one way, leave,
come back after a few months and like everything as
(16:36):
you know, it is different now. I will also say,
like my parents and I are so close. They're still
friends to this day. My mom's afraid of entrance ramps
on the freeway, so my dad takes her to the
airport when she's coming to visit me. They come out
together and hang with me. So like, I love that
they have done a really good job of getting back
to a place of love for us, and like not
(16:58):
co parenting because we're adults, but very much feels like
a blended family who all still very much respect and
love one another. But that's not to say that it
wasn't difficult for me, um, growing up in my later years,
because even though my parents were together, I always kind
of felt a little bit of a sense of like, Okay,
maybe they're staying together for us, for the kids. Like
(17:20):
they got along generally, but I didn't grow up necessarily
when seeing a ton of like like overly like physical
affection and stuff like that. But like they were like friends,
they hung out, we had a lot of good times together. Um.
And then when they divorced, you know it, I started
reflecting on what is marriage? How is it supposed to
(17:41):
a lot? It's it was supposed to last forever. That's
what they've been telling me growing up. When I say they,
I mean you know, um, my friends, my family, my church,
all of all of the people, and um, Suddenly I
was like, damn, things don't always last forever. And here
was this real and concrete thing right in front of
me screaming that at me. Not my parents. Obviously they
(18:04):
were very kind of loving through that process, um, but
the facts of the situation and it kind of like
shook me up to where I was like, oh my god,
there's so much hurt through the undoing of something that
was so deeply um binded UM that that scared me
for a little while. And I certainly even to this day,
I get a little bit anty about like, oh my gosh,
(18:26):
Like we can say forever, but things don't always last forever.
And I think, you know, particularly children who have witnessed
the divorce or separation of parents, UM kind of have
to live with that shadow and do a lot of
self work to do it, which honestly I wasn't really
tripping that much, but I would be. I'd be laying
an o thick to say that I had to do
(18:47):
a time of self work about it, But yeah, I
did have to kind of revisit what I believed to
be true about marriage and what I looked at it
as and if I believed in it still as an
institution that I was signed up for um and commit
to forever with someone. And I've gotten to the point
where I I've leaned into that and I am more
(19:08):
of Travash's mind in the sense of I would like that,
and I have hope for that, and the worst thing
that happens is that doesn't happen, that my hope does
not come true. But as someone who dreams big and
hopes loudly and often, this is one of those hopes
that I have. And you know, all you can do
is try your best. But that's kind of my perspective
(19:29):
on it, um. But I hear you because a part
of me, Leah is like like the legality of it, right,
the paperwork. That's what gets ugly when it's suddenly like
you have to negotiate, you have to be in a
court telling a stranger your business so that that stranger
can decide who gets the kids and win. And it's
so intrusive and it's just so painful and it could
(19:49):
technically be unnecessary had you not gone into a legally
binding agreement. But then I also get how you kind
of need legally binding agreements for you can end up
that way anyway. You don't have to have a marriage
to go end up in court fighting over your kids.
You're right, that is so right. And I saw you, Bosh.
I saw you when Leah was first talking about the
(20:10):
um how marriage originated based on her research and kind
of that stuff, you were like making a Vosh face.
So perspective on that, and again this is we're all friends,
so it's all like respectfully and from a loving place.
But I love that we all have different perspectives and
stories and ideas and opinions. And honestly, I'm kind of
(20:30):
really excited now because I think it's gonna make for
a really good group chat because we all have different
opinions that sometimes do not align. So what were you
disagreeing with, Vosh with your face? Well, okay, so part
of that Vosh face was Leah's video went out and
I could not hear her, and all I could hear
was like your commentary to what she was saying. I'm like,
(20:52):
what the hell is she saying? Over there? We're talking about?
But there was a part of it that I heard
at the beginning. Leah was saying, you know, like, what
is marriage beside? It's just like a piece of paper,
and um, it's it's more than that. Um. You know
(21:13):
when I got married, did I feel differently the next day? No,
you feel like the exact same. You just feel like,
like you said, you had a big party and that
was great. All your friends and family were there, it
was awesome. No, you don't feel differently the next day,
but there is something that over time, it just it changes,
(21:36):
there's something that changes your relationship. It feels different, it
feels more committed, um And honestly, like I felt like
closer in my relationship with Tyler. And then as years
go on, we get through um humps, we get over
(21:58):
humps and over you know, issues, We go through things,
and we we approach our next you know little pill
that we've got to get through together, and we're like,
oh my gosh, like this is huge. What Like I
don't know if we're gonna be able to do this?
Like how are we going to get through this? And
(22:19):
you work together and you get through it. You you
are just committed. It's not as easy to walk away.
You can say you're committed. But then when I think
when you're actually like really committed, like legal like you're
legally committed. Everyone knows you're committed. I don't know, it's
just it feels differently. But when we get to those
(22:42):
those problems and we're like, okay, what are we gonna do?
Like this is hard, This is a problem that maybe
if we were not married, we could easily, um, you know,
just split up. And I'm not I'm not saying that lightly.
Like real things have come up in our marriage. But you,
like I said, are committed, and you work through them
together and you get over that because of both of
(23:06):
you being that committed, and you know both of you
are that committed because you both agreed to do something
that is so permanent. And then once you get past
it and you get to the next little you know
hill that you're gonna have to get through, and you
look back at the last one, you're like, well, I
thought that one was really huge, but now this one's
(23:27):
the huge one that we have to get over. So
let's work together to get to get over this one.
And as you do that, it's just for us at least,
it just seems like our relationship gets even stronger and
even more loving. And then when you throw in like
zeries group chats and you get like the sex therapist
on here, I mean, then it just you must change
(23:50):
your lives, all right? Every Monday New episodes like I
was gonna ask you Bosh about that about whether you
know I was going to play Devil's Advocate and be like, okay,
well do you just think that because you're technically married,
it's deeper. It feels deeper. But then you eventually got
to the part where you said no, quite literally, because
(24:12):
we are legally tied to one another. We're in it
in a way that we might have been tempted to
just drop the mic had we not legally invested in
one another. And so sometimes the legality and the paperwork
is what has kept us there. And then we get
on the other side of it and we're stronger for
it and deeper in love for it. But I can't
(24:34):
say for sure that we wouldn't have pieced out had
we not been legally tied up in the paperwork. And
I could see that. Leah, do you have what do
you think about that? Do you have response? Yeah? I
I you know, I hear everything Trevasha is saying, and
I really acknowledge that. And it's actually not the first
time I've heard that before, um, from somebody that did
(24:54):
not get legally married. I have a girlfriend and she
told me, she's like, we had the big what, we
had the commitment ceremony, we just didn't sign the paperwork,
and sure enough, after a couple of years they just split.
And she said it's as she thinks that if they
had actually on the paperwork portion and got the marriage license,
maybe they would have stuck it out. So it's a
(25:15):
really interesting perspective. I think that she's absolutely right. I
will say, like, I want all those things that she
just said. I want a relationship that grows and it's
got its up and downs and you get through those
downs together and they make you stronger and more secure
in your partnership. Um. It still doesn't change my mind
(25:36):
about the marriage license portion, even though I think that
she's right on the money which what she is talking about. UM,
But yeah, those those are my thoughts on that. I'm
still I'm still standing firm in my team no marriage.
But I do want the wedding in the you know,
like that one day, but I want the party now.
But I still you know, I throw a good way,
(25:58):
Yes you do, and I can outwait to attends. Um
before I let you guys go. Just out of curiosity,
this one was a little bit on a lighter note,
in a bit of a pivot. But I'm just curious
to know what each of you believes about lifetime partnerships,
Like do you believe in soulmates? Do you believe in
twin flames? Do you believe that there's one person for
you or that any that a few different people could
(26:19):
end up being the one. Do you believe in horoscopes? Okay,
I want hunder Pism believe in horoscopes for sure. In fact,
to elaborate, I don't know have Do you too have
the pattern? App? I did have it. It's super deep
divy that app like sees into I don't know if
(26:39):
I believe in like soulmates and one person for everybody,
Like I think that there are people that are better
suited for others, and maybe there are some matches in
the stars, but I don't think it's necessarily just one.
But the pattern, app Ladies, I mean, this thing just
like tears into your soul. It knows everything about you.
It's really beautiful. And I actually, um, I've been dating
(27:01):
someone for a couple of months who he's actually need
the big update. Yeah, offline, I'll tell you a little
bit more. Um and here, And he's the one that
told me about the pattern. He was like downloaded and
he added me and obviously within five minutes, I like
did the whole like are we compatible thing, and it
really said we are. It's I mean, it really said
(27:22):
amazing things about us. Like we were talking about it later,
We're like we're reading it looking for something that's bad,
and even like the trials and tribulations portion of it
was so like great, it was like it's it's literally
said the same thing about both of us, where sometimes
career will come before relationships and you just have to
give that other person's space and we're like, oh yeah, uh.
(27:43):
And that's just like a small example. But I do
absolutely believe in horoscopes and astrology when it comes to
love and partnerships, not only in romantic relationships, but friendships
as well. Um, I just don't necessarily know about actual
soul bates. I'm open to it. Yeah, what wait with
your sign? Leah again? Are you sorry? I'm a Libra
(28:06):
October just away, I know who you are. So I'm
a tourist. Um And I might contradict myself here a
little bit because I don't like, I'm not sure that
(28:27):
you know there's only like one person for somebody. Um,
I feel like there's many different people that you may
be compatible with and could like have a great life
with and have a long, happy, healthy marriage with, or
(28:48):
just relationship in general. Um. So, I feel like soulmates
are something that's kind of like made up in the
movies and this is what it's supposed to be like.
But at the same time, um, and here's where I'm
contradicting myself. At the same time, I feel like God
does have a plan for us. Um the universe has
(29:09):
a plan, whatever you wanna call it, there is a
plan for us. And um, I do feel like having
that person that does work with you that you can't
build a happy, healthy life with is a part of
that plant. Um. So I guess call it what you want.
I guess I'm just like a walking oxymoron. But that's
(29:30):
my thoughts on soulmates. And then when it comes to
like horoscopes and stuff, See, I'm weird in all of
the like super religious. Um. I say religious because it's
the ones that like, you have to do this this way,
like they're gonna hate me for saying this. But I
feel like, um, there's some correlations with you know, when
(29:57):
people are born and all that stuff, just because there
it's so much of it's too much of a coincidence
for most of the people who are like this sign
are born whenever to have like these same kinds of characteristics,
it's just like too coincidental. And for me, I know,
that you know, in the Bible, it says like the universe, Um,
(30:19):
God was created. God created the universe and everything in
it for people. So when we like look at the
stars and that kind of stuff. Um. While while I'm
not like worshiping the stars, are living my life like
based on what the stars are doing, UM, I do
feel like there's some correlations within them, and I think
(30:41):
that we it is okay to like use them, um,
within reason to to maybe interact with other people or
to help you better help better understand other people, um,
so that you can you know, help them or whatever.
So that's great thoughts. I wouldn't like base my love
(31:02):
life on horoscopes or any other random whatever telling me
that this is like what you should be doing because
based on this wind and da da da. And I'm
not I'm not like talking bad about anyone that does that.
I'm just saying for me personally, that's what I do. Yeah, No,
I agree, I understand that. And actually I think it's
(31:25):
a really good point that you bring up as far
as this synergy, right, Like, I think traditionally a lot
of people have been conditioned to or raise to believe
like it has to be one or the other this
or that, Like, I don't think anything about what you
said makes it n oxymoron or makes your perspective paradoxical. Um.
If anything, it was really kind of enlightening kind of affirmation,
(31:48):
like you saying, I don't you don't have to choose
between your Christian faith and you believing that God made
this universe is beautiful universe for us, um, Like that
doesn't negate astrology, g right, or it doesn't have to
negate astrology or believing that the stars, the constellations, the
way the universe works is also um in a way
(32:08):
that can serve us and help us in our relationships
every day. So it's actually a really interesting perspective yah
um pov that you bring that. It's like something for
me to think about too, and to both of your
points also, so to both of your points, like maybe
it's the labra in me. I hate making decisions, um
so but I don't. I don't. One of the reasons
I hate making decisions is because I often want to
(32:30):
do more than one thing. Um. It's been that way
my whole life. So instead of choosing between one or
the other, I go both. And I think that that
that whole mindset can really apply to what the both
of you just said. And I think that's really important, um,
for us to consider. You need to choose yes, no, exactly,
that's exactly. And with that, I will say I definitely
(32:52):
read my horoscope and I am gim and I talked
about him like everything's true. Everything you read about to
germanis in a relation ship is true. Shot, it's upstairs
and I'm just like, oh my god, there are four
of us in this house. But it's a lot of
fun and we've finally gotten into the rhythm of what
four four sides and one relationship looks like in a
(33:12):
good way that is like calm and sustainable because we
are both just like like all over the blazes of
running around. It is literally two sets of twin kids
in a way that is really fun that point, um.
But I definitely it's uncanny sometimes just how spot on
the horoscopes can be. But then sometimes you get to
like you're gonna walk outside and that sun is gonna
(33:34):
shine and someone's gonna get you upset today, but don't
worry because you just keep persevering and remember tomorrow is better,
and someone will be like, oh my god, that is
exactly what happened yesterday, and they're just like like what
what did I even just read? But I've also had
some horoscopes y'all where I'm like, they just said some stuff,
(33:57):
they like laid it out, it was specific, and it
was really like happened or had already happened, and it
was kind of wild. But that is the ultimate tangent
um to kind of like circle back around for me.
I agree with you, guys. I don't necessarily subscribe to
the idea that there is this one person out here
and are we're just living our life until we finally
(34:19):
stumble into them, and the universe is gonna find a
way to drop that one human on planet Earth in
front of us. I think, you know, multiple people have
the opportunity to be the one. I think we're incompatible
long term with more people than were compatible with. But
I think when you find someone who, um, you know,
provide synergy to your life and they've done enough work
(34:42):
and are self aware enough to show up in a
mature and healthy and happy way, I think in that sense,
a lot of people could become the one, and then
once they are the one, they're the one. Right Like
in that sense. It's like I can look at you,
looking looking into your eyes and be like you are
the one. But that's because I'm actively making that choice,
which to me is more empowering because it's not like, oh,
(35:07):
I just stumbled into this and like finally found you,
like thanks Universe for dropping them off. It's like, no,
I've been around, I've lived my life, I've I've broken up,
I've made up, I've broken up, I've grown and evolved,
and I am actively choosing you as my one, as
my person, which I think is romantic in a different
(35:29):
sense of the word. Absolutely choosing someone. Yeah. Yeah, So Leah,
if people want to keep up with you, first of all,
let them know what's going on with you in your world,
what you're doing, and then also where they can follow you. Yeah,
what's going on with me in my world? Well, I
got a lot going on right now. I mean, really
great things career wize, I'm about to launch a production
(35:50):
company in the next couple of months, which I'm really
excited about, um and a few other amazing things. Uh.
So you can follow me on Instagram a double underscore
Leah Elizabeth double underscore, and on a really tweet So
that's it. There. We got thank you, and you can
find me on Instagram and TikTok at Life of Assassy
(36:13):
Stu and also life at assassy stew dot com. And
let's see, nothing much really happening in my world these days. Tornadoes,
tornadoes and tornadoes. We just had a crazy tornado and
it just kind of swept our little town. So just
(36:33):
trying to figure all of that out. So yeah, I'm
also going back to work soon, um, and I've been
out since January, so I'm a little nervous about that,
leaving my little baby. For those who don't know, I
am a flight attendant and so I've been out of
work since January because I went out before the pandemic
(36:58):
started because I had a beautiful baby girl all and
now I'm actually having to go back soon next month.
So I just want to say thanks for having me z.
It's always great to be on here and I love
chatting with y'all. Thank you, v Thank you so much
for joining too. It's always a pleasure love y'all. Thank
(37:21):
you again to Travasha and Leah for sharing their journeys,
their perspectives, their history. Don't forget to follow them on
Instagram And in the meantime, let's pivot. Shall we should
we eat a little expert opinion? Should we have Beverly
Andre way in on how we navigate this whole rank thing?
(37:41):
I think so, Next up, Beverly Andre. Beverly Andre, also
known as your Favorite Marriage and Family Therapist, is a
licensed marriage and family therapist and CEO slash founder of
The Heart Counseling Services. As a relationship and emotional intimacy expert,
Beverly partners with millennial couples who struggle with communication and
(38:05):
prioritizing their relationships. Here's Beverly, Well, Beverly, This episode of
Hot Happy Mess is all about engagement, all about you know,
the rings. Some might say chasing the ring. I don't
love that phrase, uh kind of just what it implies.
In my humble opinion, it feels um, oh god, I
don't want to say desperate. It just doesn't sound like
(38:28):
what I think of when I think about, you know,
being with someone for the rest of my life. But um,
when it comes to engagement, when it comes to two
people deciding to spend the rest of their lives together
as um, you know, a licensed marriage and family therapist,
what do you see most often, uh is the deciding factor.
(38:48):
Do you feel that most people are stepping into this commitment,
you know, as to people who are healthy and whole
and just want to go to the next level, or
do you also see a lot of people who um
reach a certain name and realize or maybe think, you
know what, it's time for me to do this if
I'm never going to do it now the time. I
think it's actually both. In my work with couples, I've
(39:10):
seen folks who are like, by the time that I'm thirty,
I want to have a partner, I want to have
children by the time I'm thirty five. So it's very
methodical in terms of this is how they perceive that
their life should look like. And you know that that's
not really problematic if you have somebody else who agrees
(39:30):
with you in the same manner, But typically that doesn't happen. Um,
so you have people who are like, well, I'm in
love with you, and I want us to be a family.
I want us to you know, enjoy life experiences under
the title of marriage. And so when you have those
two frame works, they typically contradict each other. And then
so now you have to kind of figure out already
(39:53):
how do both of you get your knees met um
based off of your individual values? And when it comes
to values, that's the thing we talk about a lot
here on the podcast. UM defining our core values, realizing
that what works for me might not work for you.
What I prioritize you might not prioritize, and vice versa. UM,
(40:13):
what are some of those values in the context of
engagement and long term partnership? Just to get people's um,
you know, thoughts running and kind of get their minds
jogging about I kind of want to sit down with
myself and figure out what my values might be for
a long term partnership. So funny enough, it's more centered
(40:35):
well what I've come across and I can only secret
myself and the couples that I work with. It's more
centered around the business of marriage. Right, So when it
comes okay, who can I build with? Right? Who can um,
I achieve this dream life that I am envisioning When
it comes to creating a family, does this person? Can
I see this person as a cool parent? Can I
(40:57):
see this person as a good parental figure for the
next generation? Essentially, so it's less of uh emotional UM
decision that that that drives through. I think people recognize
at a base level that no love for different people
ebbs and flow like you may love your partner, but
(41:17):
that this mean you will always like them. So you
have to think about what listen. So you have to
think about what is it that's going to keep you
there in the long haul? Right? What's the quality of
our friendship? Do we have UM enough mutual interests that
we can actually bond over things and still have our
(41:38):
differences that keeps you interested UM and also all the
other things that I mentioned before. I love that you
bring that up, keeping in mind not just the emotional
aspect of this, but the fundamentals, the basics, the technicalities
of it, of entering a partnership and taking UM seriously
the part of it that is partnership. It is it
(42:00):
safe to say that love is not enough of a
reason to get married. Love is not enough of a
reason to get married, because if that was the case, UM,
a lot of people wouldn't be getting divorced. There's a
lot of people who have not gotten married with UM,
someone that they were in love with at some point
in time in their lives because there were other aspects
(42:23):
that were factoring into does this person fit as a
longtime partner for me? Right? Um, it's so much bigger.
And I think that while it is romantic, that's what
folks like to say, like, Oh, I'm so a loved
I can't live without you. You can't lear saw that person. Actually,
actually you can't live without that person. Um, because love
(42:47):
is not enough when troubles come, right, when financial situations happen,
when you deal with sickness, when you deal with all
the not so great things that comes with being in
a long term or they fationship with someone right and
so um. Some of the couples that that I have
worked with, I remember one guy was like, if it
(43:08):
was up to my feelings, I would have left right
straight up. Because sometimes that's it. He said, if it
was up to my feelings, I would have left because
I don't know the last time I fell in love
with my wife and I remember asking what kept you
and he said, she's my best friend. Like, I don't
think there's anyone out here in the world right now
(43:30):
who knows me the way that she knows me. We
have children together, we have built a business together. Those
things are anchoring me to be motivated to try a
little bit harder. Right now, my feelings are not in
alignment with all the other things. It's not an anchor
right now. Wow. Wow, Honestly, I hear that and I
(43:51):
get chills because that, to me sounds like real commit
That sounds like the marriage of it all, right, that
sounds like the lifetime partnership of it all. It's really
easy to stick around when we're feeling good and the
butterflies are just flapping their wings and easy breezy. But
when you look up and say, I don't feel any
of that right now, and I'm still choosing you who
(44:15):
or I'm trying to choose you, I'm trying to choose.
I'm trying to choose us. Because at some point in time,
obviously I agreed to into this relationship with you. I
agreed to um, I made a decision to get married
with you. So there's something at the foundation that is
there of there's something that I saw in you way
(44:37):
back when, right and for whatever reason, however life has
played out because people oftentimes forget that who you married,
however long ago, is out who you're currently with, right,
Because we change every day, We change every day we
have different experiences that mold us as people, and so
you have to be willing to continuously study your partner, right,
(45:00):
and sometimes it does get a little bit harder to
study your partner. Sometimes we do procrastinate when it comes
to taking initiative to understanding who we are with because
we're distracted but all the things that are happening in life.
And so when that becomes a pattern, and that becomes
repetitious and you don't remember the last time you slowed
yourself down and tapped into you or you talk into
(45:21):
your partner, it makes sense why those feelings are not
in alignment because it's not being prioritized, so you're not
nurturing it, you know what I mean. I'm glad that
you bring that up, the idea of nurturing and checking
in with your partner and being really actively engaged in
the relationship. Um, what is some of the prep work
that you recommend to you know, some of your the
(45:44):
couples that you make counsel or people you've worked with
when it comes to preparing for a lifetime partnership or
a marriage, whether they're about to enter engagement or currently engage.
What can we be doing to work on ourselves and
support our owners working on themselves to make sure that
when we step down that aisle when we say I
(46:05):
do we really feel it in our bones that we
know what that means. Right. That's an awesome question, um,
because I think a lot of folks will think about, well,
as long as we do Premier to counseling, then we're good. Right.
But it's more than just Premier to counseling. And I
offer that as a service, and I tell my couples
(46:25):
that Premier counseling is not not that it's not, but
you shouldn't look at it as Okay, this is the
thing that we have to check out, like this is
a seal the deal. We're definitely meant to be if
we do well in counsel and we have got a
page and I'm like, no, it's not about You're not
(46:46):
being assessed about Premier to counseling. What you get in
that in those sessions you get some strategies that you
maybe have not been introduced to before. Right. And so
I always tell my puples that with the premarital counseling
services with me, you actually get one free check in
within the first year, right, A lot of people don't
(47:08):
realize that in the first year there's so many changes.
If a couple has lived together or hasn't, it doesn't matter.
Once you become married, the dynamics change. So you could
have been living with that person for years and years
and years, and you start noticing, Okay, some of our
expectations that come with these titles are now changing the
dynamics in our home. Right, And I tell them, like,
(47:29):
I want you to understand that this is a lifetime
of checkens. Right, that the same way you take care
of a car and you have the maintenance, it's gonna
run really well if you're you know, getting that tune
up every three thousand miles, right, if you're being intentional
about the mechanics and how well your car is working.
But if you're driving and you're getting so distracted by
(47:50):
you know, everything that you're seeing on the outside. You're
looking at you know, the tree, they're gonna everything else,
and you're ignoring that you have that check in July,
or you're ignoring that little sound and my engine died.
But we're right, right, you're looking at everything else outside
(48:14):
of the vehicle that you are in. And it's so
easy to you know, you get used to seeing at
the peripheral. Yeah, that check in jo line. But I'll
deal with it later. I'll deal with it later. Right, So,
when you lose that intention and you forget that, I
don't have to go to we don't have to go
to a couple of different because there's a huge problem.
But it's okay for us to have that maintenance, for
(48:34):
us to be able to check in with each other
and ourselves individually. And a lot of times when we
start being intentional, when we stopped being intentional about ourselves right,
primary as an individual, and then now we're having all
these feelings that come with not prioritizing so and then
you start projecting that on your partner, right, and now
(48:54):
that's affecting your relationship because you're feeling resent me at
the fact that you haven't had time to just be that,
you haven't had time to pour into your own cup.
And now you're upset because when you made the choice
to be with that person, you also make the choice
to be responsible for the quality of that relationship and
you can't slack off with that person. But then you
end up doing it right at the expense of you,
(49:16):
and so there's this weird tension that that starts to
build in the relationship that could be mitigated if you
were intentional about pouring into self, which makes it so
much um, not so much easier, but you have more
capacity to pour into your partner, if that makes sense.
So UM, you you talk about the check ins, you
(49:38):
talk about being intentional with your partner heading into this. UM.
Some people may consider premarital counseling. Some may not. I
like that that idea that UM, that challenge to really understand,
like this isn't just check those boxes, Okay, you're all clear,
you get a you can get married now past this
is an opportunity for you to really understand who you're
(50:00):
airing and how you need to show up for them
and vice versa. UM. For those who maybe used to
do the counseling, but maybe you don't. If we want
to navigate conversations with our partner individually, UM, what what
does creating that space look like in the relationship for
maybe let's say, okay, let's say even we can talk
about I'll make it personal with me and my boyfriend. Right,
(50:20):
we've been together for about two years now. We talk
about marriage, we talk about engagement. That's a direction that
we're intentionally headed um outside of therapy. What sort of
weekly check ins, what sort of conversation starters should we
be having right now as we try on this um
(50:40):
this hoodie of you know, engagement or life like as
we see if it fits and see what it feels like.
I absolutely love the fact that you use that betaphor
that was everything UM when he was to create the
space right, like the whole space for your partner, and
he's like, well, how do you do that? How do
you hold space for your partner? Right? And so I
(51:03):
think about I think about what are the barriers to
communication in the relationship? Right? Um? If you know that
you want to talk about marriage right and you are
unsure how your partner is going to receive it, I
want people to think about, Okay, what is giving you pause?
Do you feel like your partner's not going to receive
it so you feel like they're gonna judge you, Do
(51:24):
you feel like they're gonna shut you down? Think about
what it is that that that that gives you pause,
and then share that with your partner and say, hey,
I really want to talk to you about this topic,
but I have reservations, right, I have reservations about how
you're gonna act, how you're gonna think, how you're gonna
respond to me. And I don't want that to be
(51:45):
the pattern in our relationship that if I feel like
there's something I want to talk to you about, that
I can't do that because I'm concerned about when I
tell you your body language might be very off putting
to me. And now I'm second guessing whether or not
I should even bring us up with you. So now
that person is responsible for Okay, how can I be
(52:05):
more aware of my body language to ensure that my
partner feels safe enough to come speak to me about
things that are on their mind? Right? We think about
how do we communicate and we're gonna do conflict resolution? Right?
Do I turn away from my partner when we're talking
and that messages to them that I don't care about
what they're saying? Am I looking at my partner? Right? Um?
(52:28):
When my partner tells me something and I don't understand it,
Am I asking clarifying questions to understand? Or am I
just listening to disrebut you right? Right? Because we have
to think about intention. What is it that you want.
(52:48):
What is it that you're seeking from your partner? Are
you seeking to understand? Are you seeking to be right?
And if you're seeking to be right, that means there's
a level of respect that you don't have for your
partner's emotions. It is not up to you to say
that your partner's emotions are right or wrong. It's up
to you to understand them, to understand what is it
(53:10):
connected to. Because a lot of times when we do
communicate with people, we have our own past experiences that
inform the way that we do communicate. Right, So if
we're gonna try to create space for our partner, we
have to think about what are those barriers to creating
that space? What does my partner need in order to
be vulnerable with me? Right? How can I nurture their vulnerability?
(53:31):
How can I protect them in this space so that
they know that I'm not here to attack them, but
I'm here to support them. I love that you bring
that up and the way that you lay that out
so clearly, because that's a technique that you know, my
boyfriend Shawn and I have learned is I think are
they call it the spotlight technique of Okay, I'm gonna
(53:53):
sit here and I'm going to listen to how you're feeling,
and I'm not gonna go with my gut weight. But
that's not true. Word well, I didn't really do it
like that and kind of let go of the defensiveness
and be like, I'm going to ask you how you're feeling.
I'm going to dig deeper. I'm going to ask follow
up questions. I'm not listening to respond because I don't
know what you've said yet. So unless I have some
(54:16):
preconceived idea about what I need to get across, I
can't have any um. I can't know how this conversation
is gonna go because you haven't fully expressed how how
you felt yet. And in the past, you know we've
certainly fallen into that bad habit. I know friends have
certainly fallen into it too. Of before we even sit
down and talk. I know how this conversation is going
(54:38):
to go on my mind because I know what I
need to say. I need to get it out, and
any matter what you say, because this is what needs
to be saying, because I decided so right, and it
just ends in chaos. It never ends well. But when
you show up in a loving kind way and say
I want to understand you, tell me more. I'm sorry
you felt that way. Why it is wild the differences
(54:59):
we have no is in each other, and then it
sort of softens our own hearts and it makes the
person want to do the thing that you're going to
try to beat them over the head to do, but
now they want to do it willingly. They want to
show up for you because you're coming to them from
a place of love. Right. It's like there's so many
layers to communication and how we show up for people,
(55:22):
and that when it comes to communicating with your partner,
and you have so much as happening internally, right, Um,
some people they have not, They have had past experiences
where conflict or navigating disagreements, they're getting up for an
(55:43):
attack because that's their past experiences. They have never learned
how to resolve a problem in a loving way, how
to be okay with the fact that you will and
your partner are different people. Therefore you will have differences, right,
And that if I am coming to you to navigate
this issue that I have, it's because I'm invested. It's
(56:04):
because I want us to get get over this hump
and get on the other side of things. Right. But
half the time people aren't even aware why they're responding
the way that they're responding. Right, So if they are
able to say, you know what, like in my previous relationships,
anytime I would bring something that my partner would just
shut me down, they'll talk really, really loud. Right, So
if you talk loud to me, I'm shutting down. I'm
(56:29):
not communicating with you. And I need you to be
aware of your volume. I need you to be aware
of your body language because my past experiences that signals
to me that this is gonna go left someone to
disengaged to save myself so that it doesn't escalate. Right.
So when we start understanding why our behaviors or how
our behaviors are connected to our emotional responses, then we're
(56:50):
able to show up a little bit better. We're able
to show up in a healthier way so that we
can go ahead and navigate this right. And if you
feel the urge to defend yourself as I'm talking to you,
you probably have experiences where you've had to defend yourself
or somebody probably lied on you, or you know, diver
any things like that. So now you don't even know
how to be patient with hearing me because you're so
(57:11):
to just how to defend, how to protect myself, I
how to make sure she understands or he understands that
I was. You know, it's just so much. But when
you really just say, Okay, I'm gonna work on my
breathing right because a lot of times people hold their
breath during disagreements. I'm gonna make sure I have some
airflow going in right, right to make sure that my
(57:31):
heart is actually, you know, the heart rate is slow down,
and that I'm recognizing. I do feel the need to
say something right now, but I want to listen because
I want to understand him or her. And then once
they're done talking, Hey babe, so I just want to
make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say X,
(57:51):
Y and Z and the partners like, yeah, that's what
I said. Okay, cool. I just want to make you
honesstood or if they didn't understand, well they know, like
this is what I was really trying to say. Right
until you get to the point where y'all both understand,
and then now you move on to and share what
you have to say, right, because if we're moving forward
in clarity, then we won't have to fall back on
(58:12):
assumption and confusion because that's going to do real other relationship. Right. So, UM,
you know, make the communication Hypothetically, you're in a good place,
You're feeling like I want to commit to this person.
We're doing this. What's maybe one or two signs that
you and your partner might be ready for this next step?
How do you know what's going well? And then maybe
(58:34):
what's a sign or two that you might gently encourage
this couple to reevaluate whether or not they should be
together and take that plunge into your plunge down the
altar I should say, okay, So indicator that you're already
that folks are ready to take that next step, that
there's more we thinking versus I thinking. Right, if I'm
(58:54):
including you more and like my day to day decisions
or I'm considering your thoughts or I'm considering okay, how
does this affect us? You're already having that fusion mentality
versus the eye the eye that I I don't know
about you, what I'm doing this, you get what I'm saying.
That doesn't lend towards um a union if that makes sense? Um,
(59:18):
another sign I think is when people are able to
you know, envigenous future, like hey, like you have conversations,
you know, like when we have kids, right, not yeah,
I don't know how my kids are going to be
your kids, right or so those are like indicators, like
I think just the collectivism of it all, um, signs
(59:41):
that folks should not take the next step. Save save
some folks now, please give them the one we need
to step away. Signs that you should not be with
that person is when there's any conversation about future and
you check out, you are out, You're not You're like, oh, okay, um,
(01:00:02):
you want to talk about I'm good, right, Um, there's
been no indicator. Let's say it's an entanglement. There's no
indicator about seeing what the nature of the relationship is, right,
what's fueling the relationship is confusion. You don't know if
you're going up, down, forward, backwards. Y'all just kicking it, right.
(01:00:26):
And here's the thing. Some folks are like, well, that's
fine too it I don't want to get anything serious.
But even that is a title, right, saying this is
an entanglement, we're just kicking it is right. But if
you're not even trying to do that. You just frolicking
and confusion. Frolicking in confusion. Hello, I'm zero, I'm frolicking
(01:00:52):
in confusion. I love that. There's a really good signs
on both sides of the fence. Um in conclusion, for
for this portion of the conversation. Um, what if you
are the person who is thinking about wedding, engagement, et cetera,
and your partner may or may not be open to it,
you don't know you feel like they would be. How
(01:01:13):
do you kind of how do you suggest someone drop
the hint or you know, male female doesn't matter and
be like I want to engauge your interest in engagement, Like,
how do you bring up that conversation in a way
that's chill? How you just brought it up that was
really smold actually, like for all, Like you know, I
(01:01:36):
mean you can pick the setting, you can set the scene.
You can you know, throw the TV on TLC, y C,
yes to the job. I mean, whatever way you feel
like you need to make it more comfortable for you.
Nothing is going to replace the need for directness. Like
you know what, I am just really interested in knowing,
Like when it comes to us in you know, a
(01:01:59):
future or you know, going to the next level in
terms of commitment, like what do like, what do you see?
And if you don't see anything right now, I mean,
that's fine or whatever, But I'm really interested in knowing,
like where your mind is at, because I think a
lot of times people are like, oh, I don't want
to pressure nobody into doing nothing. I'm like, you can't
pressure any wanted to do anything that they ultimately didn't
(01:02:21):
choose to do. Right. You're responsible for sharing your thoughts,
how you feel, and what you want. That person is
responsible for how they respond to you and how they
show up. Because if you try to think about what
I should say and what I should say based off
of somebody's assumed response, you're gonna get nowhere. Right, And
(01:02:43):
we have to remember that everybody has the power to
do what they want to do in the relationship. You
have the power to show up or to not show
up if you want to, you know, increase the commitment
you I mean, you can only bring you into it.
That person can either step up or step back or
just stay still like there we go. I love that.
(01:03:04):
That's such great advice. Beverly, Thank you so much for
such amazing conversation and your wisdom and sharing your expertise
with our audience. UM, just really quickly share with everybody
specifically where they can find you, where they can reach
out if they're interested in learning more, maybe booking a
session with you. Okay, so on all social platforms, I
(01:03:25):
am under Beverly Andre underscore. That's Beverly with the l
E Y. My mom was, she was fancy and I
actually eat so. Beverly Andre underscore on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. UM,
if anyone's interested in UM therapy services, I do specialize
and working with black and brown couples and women, and
(01:03:46):
you can find me at b Heart Counseling dot com.
B Heart b E with the Heart Counseling dot com.
There we go, Beverly, thank you so much. Thank you, Zuri, Hi,
Kathy is best best, so much good stuff, a lot
of gyms, and I certainly took notes. I'll be applying
that on my own journey. Stay tuned, guys. Thank you
(01:04:09):
Beverley for the amazing conversation. Thank you tra Vasha and
Leah for another dope group chat. You guys don't forget.
If you're loving the podcast, you should definitely leave a
five star review. They help move the needle. You know,
we're trying to get these numbers up, and you guys
have been so overwhelmingly positive with the conversations. I'm so
thankful that you're enjoying the Loving Relationship series. We've got
(01:04:32):
the career and Finance series kicking off pretty soon here.
Um so, if you have any ask Zeri questions for
the Ask Series segment, feel free to shoot Just aligned
hello at hot Happy mess dot com and I will
see you on Monday. By all,
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