April 12, 2021 • 38 mins
You got the ring. You said I do. It’s 10 days later, and now you’re slightly panicking and wondering… WHAT'S NEXT?! Fear not! This week Zuri chats with licensed Marriage + Family Therapist Mallory Wolfgramm, and her husband Stranz. They're not only sharing expert advice but their Real Couple, Real Story -- on how they make their marriage work, the worst advice they’ve ever received, and how you can create a strong foundation that is centered in love, vulnerability, and trust.
Mallory + Stranz, also open to Zuri about navigating married life as an interracial couple, and balancing their attachment styles. Lastly, they share their expert advice on how happy couples can argue better.
Stay tuned to the end of the episode, for this week’s Party Trick: Three vocab words GUARANTEED to help fix you + your partners’ communication styles!
Let us know your favorite part of the convo: @ZuriHall + @HotHappyMess.
Head over to hothappymess.com for all the show notes mentioned in this episode and for ALL the deets on how to join our exclusive Facebook group!
⠀⠀ ⠀
Recent episodes: if ya feel like bingeing:
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 20: Should I Get Married?! Let’s Talk ENGAGEMENT
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 12: The Best Sex Ever Episode (What You’ve Been to Shy to Ask!!)
ICYMI: Listen to Episode 10: Do You or Your Partner Have Communication, Commitment, or Trust Issues?
Go back to the beginning --- ICYMI: Listen to Episode 1: How to Be Happy
Follow @ZuriHall and @HotHappyMess on Instagram to keep the good vibes going.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Hot Happy Mess, Celebrate your magic in the middle
of life's messes. Hot Happy That. I'm Zurie Hall and
this is Hot Happy Made Shoot. Hello, Hello, what is up?
(00:25):
Welcome back to another episode of Hot Happy Mess. I'm
your host, Zuri Hall, and we are in the thick
of our loving relationship series. Coming to a close, guys,
coming to a close pretty soon. Here a couple of um,
really important topics. We've been talking a lot about love
in the air. We're gonna talk about some of the
(00:46):
heavy stuff to the opposite of love in the air.
We're gonna deep dive into divorced separation and navigating breakup. Um.
But before we get to all of that, let's keep
it positive, shall we. I'm mayor Now what we had
the episode recently on engagement, How to talk about it,
how to bring it up to your partner if you're interested,
(01:08):
and you know, putting a ring on that special finger,
or maybe just a long term commitments to go back
and check that out if you haven't. But today you
got the You made the leap down the aisle. I
don't nobody leaps. That's not a thing. You made the
walk down the aisle, or maybe you were waiting for
someone at the aisle. You're married? Now what today's episode
(01:30):
is going to be a good one because it's kind
of like a mash up a real couple, real story
meets an expert. Okay, because Mallory does double duty since
technically she is one half of this real couple and
she's also a licensed marriage and family therapist. So Mallory
and Strawn's are going to dive into the first year
(01:53):
of marriage and how it was surprisingly difficult for them
and how they got to a play that was good,
really good. And Mallory is also going to share some
of her perspective and some of the work that she
does with her clients since she is a licensed marriage
and family therapist. Strawn's and Mallory are going to go
into a little bit of attachment style there on opposite
(02:14):
of the spectrum, and y'all know I love an attachment
theory moment. Go back to the entire episode dedicated to
it if you haven't heard it yet. And finally, this
week's party trip, Three relationship vocabulary words that will change
the way you communicate. I love these prompts. They are
(02:36):
three things that you can put into practice with your
partner like today and I'm already using I've already used
rather at least one of them, really excited to introduce
the other two into my relationship. It's really good stuff.
So Malory's gonna drop that at the end. So, without
further ado, here are Mallory and Strawn. Mallory is a
(02:57):
licensed marriage and family therapist and her hus Been Strans
is an advocate for all Things therapy. Their mission is
to help happy couples get the support and tools they
need to stop arguing and circled. Halle Yeah, I can't
wait for those and start connecting in conflict. And Mallory
and Strawn's doing together on their Instagram at Make Marriage
(03:17):
Work and their podcast Make Marriage Work to share tips
and resources to help happy couples argue better and connect more.
Mallory strands, how are you We're doing We're so excited
to be here. Thank you for joining me. Y'all can't
see this right now, but they are sharing the same
pair of air pods or air buds whatever. They have
(03:39):
a chord, which makes it all the more romantic to
have a button their air that. I'm loving it. Um,
So this episode is all about marriage right The last episode,
we were talking about engagement, how to know if, um,
the person that you're with is that person or not,
when to walk away, how to navigate those conversation. And
(04:00):
this episode is exciting because it assumes you have made
it past the hump of are they the one or
are they not? The verdict was they are. So. Um,
marriage might not be for everyone, but certainly even if
you're considering long term partnership or any sort of commitment
in that space. UM, I hope that this will be applicable.
So just to kick things off, Mallory Strands, tell us
(04:22):
a little bit about yourselves, about your relationship. How you met,
fell in love and you know eventually tither not, Yeah,
I'll go for it. Um. So we met in college, Um,
and we dated, got engaged, got married like within a year.
(04:43):
So we did it real click. Okay what year college
are we talking? Are we talking freshman year or was
it no? No? No, thanks thanks for kay. Um. And
so we always like to say because like kind of
dating was just this like honey moon, whirlwind, quick engagement,
like so excited. Um, once we got married, moved in together,
(05:06):
it was like, oh, let's figure out how to do
this relationship thing, this argument thing, because we really hadn't
crossed that very much before being married, and so it's
very new and very challenging. Yea, yeah, yeah, you know,
we had minimal conflict dating. You know, we had a
few moments of conflict, but when we got married or like,
(05:29):
how do we navigate this because everything happens so quickly, Yeah,
really quickly, because that first year right, like very often
that's still the honeymoon phase and you're feeling good and
everything's great, and then obviously real life is like, hey,
what's up. We're here to say. Um, So I'm curious
to know was there any reason in particular that you
guys decided to you know, tie them out so quickly
(05:50):
or you just like when you know, you know, or
was it for some other reason? Yeah, good question. We
kind of it was kind of a combination of when
you know, you know, and we're both Christian, and it's
just kind of culturally that was like kind of the norm,
like once you find a person, you just kind of
go for it and then you've been together and that
type of like pattern, and so it's just kind of
(06:12):
what we grew up. I used to um, and so
I think there's cool things about that because we just
kind of like committed and then we were in and
we're like, let's figure this out. But I also think
that I always say we lucked out because we didn't
know each other that well when we got married, like
(06:32):
we thought we did. But really those first couple of years,
I think it takes a few years together and even
living together to like really get to know someone on
that level. And so luckily we were all in and
figured it out together. So a year top you tie
and that you're in this marriage thing. Um, talk to
(06:53):
me a little bit about that first year. They always
say the first year is the hardest. What was that experience?
Like you too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were you know,
like I mentioned earlier, minimal conflict when when we were
dating and then when we were married we were living together. Um,
whenever conflict came up. Both of us have like different
(07:14):
types of reactions. When here we have conflict. I'm more
of like the shut down. You know, I'll sleep on
in then tomorrow, you know, we won't have an issue
in the middle of that. Yeah, I'm like, you know what,
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna knock out right now.
And then we'll and then we'll reconvene when I wake
(07:36):
up and hopefully everything you don't have simmer down. Mallory,
on the other hand, is the exact opposite. So she
wants to she wants to solve the issues, to resolve
the issues right now. And I'm just like, like every
I want to say every night, but like a lot
of nights, you know, we would have like these conversations
before we go to sleep, and I'm like, I'm so tired,
(07:57):
I can't like engage right now. Can we like continue
this tomorrow after we've slapped, And I was like, no,
We're gonna start right now. So we're just like hug
it up. So so we saw ourselves like falling into
the cycle of like, you know, we kind of understood
our our personalities when it came to conflict. I was
(08:19):
more of the flight. She was more of the fight. Um,
and it just didn't work out well, it did work out.
That was that that. It's interesting to hear you say
that because I am obsessed with attachment theory. I talk
about it all the time on this show, and we
had an entire episode dedicated to it, and so I
am more like ustrons where I'm I can be a
(08:41):
little avoidant or dismissive or I'm like I can't do this,
like it's all a big jumble and I just shut down.
I can't compute it until I have space and time
to just kind of work through it. And my partner,
my boyfriend, is the opposite. He's like, let's talk about
it now, let's talk about everything. Let's turn over we
stone And I'm just like, oh my god. So we
have slowly over time figured out how to respect what
(09:03):
the other person needs, and it sounds like you twould
have done the same, And Um, through that episode, we
realized that combination is the most prevalent when it comes
to couples. Is is that balance and what can be
discouraging at first can actually become a really cool yin
Yang situation where once you figure out how to communicate
(09:24):
in a healthy way. I think being opposite helps the
other kind of see a different way to communicate, you know,
and sort of appreciate a different perspective that maybe they
didn't relate to. How did you two solve that? How
did you fix the the fact that you are opposite
in the communication spectrum? Yeah, so that's um, I was
(09:50):
a nursing school, is what I did my undergrad in.
And then early in our marriage, I said I think
I want to be a therapist and decided to go
back to school. And so what the in the first
year of marriage, I started my Marriage and Family therapy
graduate program and really gravitated towards a couple of stuff,
probably because we were trying to figure out the couple
of stuff. And so I started working with couples and
(10:12):
reading all these books about relationships and attachment theory. I
love of attachment theory, UM, and then I was like,
if I'm going to be a couple of therapists, we
should probably go a couple of therapy. And so we
did that too, and so it's kind of a combination,
like we kind of call that kind of second year
are like marriage boot camp, where we were like taking
everything I learned at school and like working really hard
(10:34):
to apply it. We were going to a couple of therapy,
and we were like, We're going to figure this out
because we wanted so badly to connect and understand each
other and um find each other in those moments, but
we just didn't quite have the tools. Okay, so as
you learned what were those tools that you learned. You know,
obviously hopefully some people at least listening to this episode
(10:55):
are new to marriage or entering that space soon. Um,
what what are the keys to communication in a marriage
that you kind of realized in that crash course of
the first couple of years of marriage. So one of
our favorites and kind of goes along with that kind
of stuck pattern we were talking about of like the
fight or flight or the kind of pursuer withdrawer um
(11:19):
is learning how to take healthy, productive breaks or time
outs when we're in that place. Um. And so like
a good example is when at my bridal shower, like
three people, their wedding advice was like, never go to
bed angry. And so that's part of why I was
so stuck on like don't don't go to sleep strongs,
(11:41):
like we need to figure this out. I'm going to sleep,
I promise here right right. And so once I kind
of started learning about like how we keep saying fight
or flight and so back to attachment theory. Attachment theory
(12:02):
is kind of the basis of the therapy I do
with couples too, and so our minds are wired for
connection and when that connection feels threatened by um any conflict,
even if it's over like we bought the wrong cereal,
Like it doesn't have to be this big divorce conflict,
but any conflict triggers our mind to say, your relationship
(12:23):
is threatened, and therefore your survival is threatened, and we
literally go into that fight or flight mode where we're
not thinking rationally or logically and we're not going to
have that productive conversation. And so we were like spending
hours in that place. And once we realized how to
recognize it and take some time apart to regulate and
think through what happened and how we're feeling and just
(12:45):
kind of soothe ourselves, we could go back to it
and it was so much easier. So how did you, guys,
or how do you currently navigate that? Right? So if
there's a moment where it's like, oh, I don't want
to talk right now, like I can't do this, but
the other person really wants to, how do you negotiate that?
How do you decide when when are we going to
(13:06):
talk so that both people feel good about when it's happening,
and you know, from the person who's a little bit
like not right now, how do we say that in
a way that's loving and that says I care about you,
but I just need a second so that I can
show up in the way you need. And then also
for the person who's like I need it now, how
(13:26):
can they sort of understand and not bite the bullet
that sounds dense, but be okay, comfortable, feel safe with
waiting a little bit longer than they would like to
have that anxiety lesson. How do you how does that
conversation happen? What do you what do you say? Yeah,
that's a great question. Yeah. It took a lot of
(13:49):
work for us, like years of work to slowly build
that trust between each other. Um So, at the very beginning,
you know, it was really hard to kind of communicate,
like for my self, who's kind of been that withdrawal
state whenever conflict arises around like I'm needing space to
like self regulate, like for some reason I can't have
(14:11):
like a productive conversation right now. So we slowly started
to um use some of the tools that Malory was
was learning in school, and that was around like I
need space for like I don't know, thirty minutes just
to kind of you know, self regulate and then hopefully
we could come back and I could tell you how
(14:33):
I was feeling during that conversation or during that time
of conflict where we could have maybe a more productive
conversation um about it. But again, it took a lot
of a lot of trust in and years of work
to like know that either I was going to come
back or Mallory was going to come back to that conversation. Well,
actually talk about it as opposed to you know, sweeping
(14:54):
it under the rugs, you know, and then just pretending
everything is okay after after like thirty minutes or something,
which is my gut Instagram, like, we could just pretend
it's never happened, right and not guys, So, Mallory, from
your perspective, you know, Strong's is saying I need maybe
thirty minutes and self regulating. That takes a certain level
(15:16):
of self awareness, which is awesome when you've cultivated it.
What was that self awareness for you? What did you
realize you were doing that maybe you could do differently?
And then what does that sound like when you're having
a conversation with him about how to respect his boundaries
while also honoring yours. Yeah, beautifully said, I think kind
(15:37):
of like what Strong said is it was practiced, and
I was building that trust, and so as he was
building like a willingness and awareness to say I need
a break, And that's that's another kind of tip I
always say, is he said it really eloquently and clearly
in this moment, but in the moment when things are heated,
it might just sound like I need a break. And
if you've talked about that beforehand of what that means,
(16:01):
then that sends to me this message of Okay, I
can take this deep breath, and he's taking a break
because he's realizing this isn't getting anywhere, and I'm going
to trust he'll come back to me. And then as
he did come back to it, which took him practice,
that taught me that I can regulate on my own.
(16:21):
I cannot take it so personally like it's easy for
me to go to a place of he's taking a
break because he doesn't care, he doesn't love me, or
like we're doomed, like I can get really kind of dramatical. Yeah, yeah,
And so as I trust, like, Okay, when he goes
away to take a break, it actually works better when
it comes back. That helps me to kind of do
(16:43):
my own work in those breaks to kind of take
deep breaths and regulate and talk myself through like he
does love me, he cares about me. We're going to
figure this out. What are your I don't know too,
maybe top three tips when it comes to the first
few years of navigating marriage. What would you hope that
people keep in mind when you are working with your clients?
(17:07):
What what are the things that we should be aware
of and what are the things that we should realize
aren't what the fairy books tell us, so that we
don't think we're losing our minds or our marriage because
it's not what Disney saying or totally Yeah, I think
we touched on some of them already. But one big
(17:28):
one we like to like preach is like, go to
bed angry. That's okay. That doesn't mean your marriages do.
It actually means you'll probably wake up and it'd be like,
why are we so mad last night? Um? And so
that's been like so helpful for us, and and not
that you want to go to bed like really mean
and that type of thing, but it's okay to go
to bed with it without it unresolved. Late you're tired, um,
(17:52):
and it's it's really gonna be a lot better in
the morning. Yeah, sleep it off. I'm an advocate for that.
I've I struggled that in the past to you because
I when my boyfriend and I got together with the
same thing too. We're never going to go bit angry.
We're not like like six months in, I was like,
I will see you in the morning, I have a
good night to have good dreams. I will pray for you,
(18:15):
but I will not talk to you right now. I like,
and that's that. So and and here we are happier
and stronger than ever. And I think taking that pressure
off of yourself and your partner to resolve everything in
the moment. Sometimes you're just not ready mentally or emotionally
to go there, particularly the one who tends to withdraw
(18:38):
or be avoidant. And you know, I've gotten to the
point where I realized, Hey, I want to show up
for you, and I can't do it right now. So
we can engage and we can talk, but it won't
do what we wanted to do because for whatever reason,
I'm wired in this way where I just kind of
need to um, decompress, process my emotions and my thoughts.
(18:58):
It's harder for me to articulate difficult emotions. And I
talked we're living, but it's really hard to say how
I feel about something, especially when I hurt. And and
once you know, he realized that that wasn't commentary on
him or anything. He was doing it just so how
I'm wired. There's way more compassion. And you're so right.
The mornings are much better. It's like, okay, l O
(19:20):
l j K, We're good. Um. One thing that I
would love to talk to you two about is obviously
you're you're in it, well not obviously if you're listening
to this, but you're in an interracial marriage, and um,
I am in an interracial relationship also, And I'm curious
to know. Maybe this hasn't been the case for you,
(19:41):
but how has navigating that space been for you? Do
you feel like there are conversations or understandings to be had.
Do you feel like it was easy for you to
transition into that? What was that experience? Like? Yeah, good question. Yeah. So, uh,
I was born and raised a city, Utah. I'm a
(20:01):
I'm a Pacific islander, so you know, my my family
came from the island of Tonga, um, and I'm white
in Chicago. UM. Yeah, we it was. It was very
interesting to um when we were dating, UM to kind
(20:25):
of take it back. You know, we met at church, UM,
so we kind of had that that that bridge, that
commonality there, um, you know between religion where like um,
my ethnic background or like Mallory's ethnic background. We really
didn't talk about that when we were dating. UM. It
was probably more when we got married and we were
living together that um, you know, are we really saw
(20:49):
our cultures clash? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so like
high level, like my culture is very um collective us UM,
you know, we kind of look out for one another
um and then what you know, has its pros and
cons um. But then Mallory, on the other hand, it
(21:10):
was a little more individualistic. Uh. And it was and
you know there were times in our in our marriage
where um, you know where we really saw that um
clash and I was like, what is what is going on?
And like I was like, mal like, if you love me,
(21:30):
like this is what I was thinking. I was like, well,
if you love me, like we would go to like
this family event. And then Mallane on the other hand,
is like we've been working like all week, Like can
we just have like a day to ourselves? And like
I heard that as like you don't love me, you know,
the family, um, And you know she was kind of
on the defensive during those times while like, no, I
(21:52):
just want to like spend time like just me and
you because we haven't seen each other all week, and UM,
you know that's where I really saw are our cultures
clash was kind of a Yeah. I think that has
been and still is kind of the biggest like cultural
value difference that we've seen. UM. And it's taken a
(22:14):
lot of building understanding of where that's coming from and
how we were taught those values and what they mean
to us, and UM trying to understand that even though
they clash, that that doesn't mean um either as bad
and there's actually really beautiful things we can both learn
from both of them. UM, And we try to kind
(22:35):
of find that balance but tricky sometimes. Yeah, yeah, do
you have is I keep going back to as we're negotiation,
It's not a hostage situation, guys. I do not look
at marriage is a hostage situation. I cannot waits to
be married. I'm very excited about it. But the word
negotiation maybe compromises the word I'm looking for or you know,
(22:57):
meeting in the middle. How how do you navigate that?
Is it a compromise of Okay, I can do this,
I can go to this many family reunions and I
might have do that, but you know, so that you
can feel good. And then Strawn's You're like, I promised
Sunday afternoons are all ours and I'm not picking up
(23:17):
the phone and we're not going to go to brunch
with the friends or whatever. This is like what did
that look like for you to wear both of you
felt good about what you needed? Yeah. Yeah, compromise is
a really good word. Um, you know, just kind of
go back to example of like you know, my my
one of my cousins is holding like you know, we'll
get together or eating and I'm like we're going um,
(23:40):
and I'm like, I haven't ever heard you talk about
that cousin because I am strong when it comes to
like avoid it, but Malory, I'm all day when it
comes to like we saw them a year ago, Like yeah,
so um, but you know, like for example, will instead
(24:03):
of like going there all night, we'll like cap it
off at like hey, two hours, Max we'll get in,
we'll say what's up to the family, we'll eat some
good food, and then we'll head out and then we
could kind of, you know, maybe get some dessert together
or just you know, kind of do us and um,
you know, it's it's not a zero sum game. It's
not like, you know, we're gonna go to my family's
(24:25):
eating because it's important to me. And if you don't,
like I feel like you don't love me. And that's
that's what I was going to say, is I think
even though we found some kind of logistic compromises like that,
I think we really every time this comes up, hath
to go down to like what emotionally is going on
for each of us and if strong's can share, like,
(24:47):
like I'm thinking of one example, hopefully this is cool,
this example. But one example was when we were living
in Utah Biola, his family We're planning on going to
his brother's basketball game and I was down, but then
I found out that his brother was benched from the
game because he was late, and Strawn still wanted to
drive an hour to go watch his brother be then
(25:07):
Straw the game. So I was like really struggling to
like understand like if this is a great excuse, like
we'll watch a movie and go about early and it'll
be awesome. But he was able to share like I
want to show up to like show my brother that,
like we're there for him whether things go well or not,
and like this is important to me, and then we
(25:28):
can have tomorrow to ourselves. And I could share like
I'm just really exhausted and really Missy, we've had test
this week or whatever it was, and he can say, yeah,
let's let's have tomorrow will be artic. So I think
figuring out what's underneath our desires was really important rather
(25:49):
than just being like, you're selfish, you're not understanding me.
If that makes sense, let's just go. Let's just go.
And for her it's not, let's just go. But I
love that. I love that perspective. It really is about
understanding your partner, and once you remember that and commit
to it, it becomes sometimes exciting, sometimes exhausting, equal parts
(26:10):
exhausting and exciting. But to understand why someone is the
way they are instead of being frustrated that they aren't
the way you are makes to me. That's what I
look at, as you know, and I hope it will
be the case. I'm not married yet, but like, that
is the great commitment. I'm dedicating a lifetime to understanding
(26:31):
you better and learning you more and not taking offense
to things I used to take offense to you because
now I get where that comes from. And I'm more
ready to support you because I'm learning you. So I
think it's beautiful hearing that, because at first, girl I
was with you, I was like, wait, sitting on the bench,
we're just gonna walk on him. But hearing Strawn's perspective,
(26:51):
I honestly almost got chills. It's beautiful to to say
I'm here for you and I support you whether you're
on the bench or the court, and that's what matters,
and that's some bigger than a game. Right. Um, Yeah,
that's that's awesome. That's really beautiful. That. Yeah, but that
conversation took like two plus hours from why are you
like because we need to like going like because we
(27:15):
need to support my brother and Mallory was like, what
do you mean? But like eventually we kind of got
to the underlying practice. Now we can get to that
party quicker. Yeah, that's awesome. You mentioned, Mallory, um that
you decided you know, maybe we could do a couples
therapy since you were deciding to become a couple's therapists. Um,
(27:38):
for the folks who are listening who might be considering
couples therapy as a licensed marriage and family therapist, what
type of prep work do you suggest we do if
we're interested in taking that next step? What are signs
that maybe we should consider it? Yeah? Great question, and
that that was another thought I had even for engaged
couples and early married couples, Like I always have a
(28:00):
proponent for just go try a couple of therapy, and
in terms of prepping for it or signs of like
when it could be useful, I think, like so many things,
it could be useful for so many things. But I
think how we kind of use it in our relationship
even still is when I get to a place where
we're like, we worked that out and we feel good,
(28:23):
but we're still a little bit stuck, and it would
feel really good to have someone help us take that
a little bit deeper and understand it a little bit better,
or give us some perspective or tools to connect even
more deeply. And another thing I always say too is
a lot of couples will kind of start to think like, oh,
maybe we should try a couple of therapy, and they'll
(28:43):
put it off, put it off, put it off, and
then they'll have these years of kind of either resentment
or bad habits, and that's a lot harder to unpack
in therapy, and so really going in early and kind
of trying to push away that stigma that's totally there
of a couple of therapies for broken couples, couples on
the verge of divorce um and realizing a couple of
(29:05):
therapy can actually be just the tool to strength in
our relationship and help us grow closer. And even if
you go in and are kind of like we love
each other, we don't really know what we want to
talk about, but we want to grow closer, Like couple
of therapists will be so pumped to have you in
their office and help you out. Okay, okay, And we
do recognize that, you know, in many cases, seeking therapy
(29:25):
can be a privilege if you can't affordative. It's if
it's not an option for you. Are there any books, articles,
podcasts that you suggest our listeners seek out. Yes, So
one thought, I'll say too is UM both in college
and even after college, and we were still getting our
careers going UM, check out university is near you because
(29:48):
they have either free or really discounted couples therapy from
master's students, doctor students, and so if you call them
and you just say like, they usually will check them
make sure you're like low income or really need the support. UM.
But if you kind of check a few boxes, that's
like a really great way to get a therapist who
still in training but working really hard to help you,
(30:11):
UM for free or cheap. Okay, I like it, um. Yeah.
And then books anything by Sue Johnson or John Gottman,
And so Sue Johnson's kind of biggest book I recommend
is called Hold Me It's Height, and that kind of
talks about all the good attachment theory stuff and has
good exercises for couples and things like that. And then
(30:34):
John dominoes lots of amazing books. I like to recommend
Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. That's like lots of
good basics UM, and also exercises for couples. Okay, great stuff.
Thank you for that. Before I let you go. UM.
We do a party trick often on the episode where
it's just a fun little takeaway and I would love
to hear you guys have shared this via your socials before.
(30:57):
For this week's party trick, Three relationship BOCAP words. If
you can give us three words that are going to
change the way that we communicate and that you know,
we can practice putting into practice with our partner. What
would they be and why? Yes? Yeah? So the first one, uh,
(31:18):
for all of us conflict avoided with drawers, the word flooding.
So you know, whenever we're in high conflict, we like
physically or physiologically feel like our chest is tight um
and we just feel like we can't like pass it,
and like sometimes are like heart rate changes and it's
sometimes hard to breathe or to even think logically. Um,
(31:40):
So whenever you're in a high conflict situation, um, just
communicating to your partner like, hey, I'm feeling kind of
flooded right now, and then kind of going back to
that like I may need some time for like me
to self regulation. So the first word is flooded, right
feel um yeah blooded? Okay, I'll be using that from
here on a good Okay, flooded. What's the next one? UM.
(32:02):
The next one is trigger or triggered, So really in conflict,
paying attention to um, what was the trigger? So what
was the moment that took us to this big emotional place,
so it could even trigger past her that has nothing
to do at the present moment or current hurt that's
(32:23):
coming up. And to be able to pinpoint like it
was when you said this, or it was the tone
of voice that you said this, UM that brought this
emotion up for me, can really help clarify what kind
of went wrong and help your partner understand why you
reacted the way you did. So saying like this triggered
me or I was triggered by this triggers we've got flooding,
(32:45):
we've got triggered. What's the third vocab word we should introduce? Yes,
the third is a harsh startup. So some of these
are from Harsh startup is from John Gottman UM, and
I love it because it's this idea that if we
approached a conversation with a harsh startup, which is basically
going to be like harsh tone of voice, or criticism
(33:09):
or blame, yes, absolutely, any of those kind of harsh approaches.
He has research that shows like nineties, seven percent of
the time, it's gonna fail, Like a conversation is not
going to go well, and so making sure we approach
our partner with a soft startup instead, um, is so
(33:32):
important to give yourself the best opportunity to have a
productive conversation. And so having that word of like that
felt like a harsh startup, let's try again, or keeping
in mind when you're going up to your partner, let
me try to have this be a soft startup instead. Um,
it can be really helpful. I love that harsh startup.
It's it's great to hear that because it's a label
(33:52):
for what I think so many of us have felt.
And I'm like, oh god, if you would have just
start up this way or instead of that way, but
you just came out swinging and now I'm just so
we get back, you know. Like, So it's it's nice
to be able to have that label so you can say, hey,
this is what it felt like for me. So can
we just hit reset and try again? Um? Mallory Strands,
y'all are awesome. If people want to keep up with you,
(34:12):
follow you, maybe book a session. Where can they where
can they find you? Yeah? So on Instagram. UM. Our
our name is at Make Marriage Work. We also have
a podcast same name, Make Marriage Work. You can find
that on Apple podcast or even Spotify. UM and those
(34:33):
are the best places to find us Instagram or podcast.
Like you said at the beginning, we welcome single people,
dating people, engage people, people who are not interested in
marriage but in a long term relationships. So we say
make marriage work. But it's just talking about feelings and
conflict and connection and all and how long? How long
have you two been married? Now? Coming up on something?
(34:55):
Okay sent me to you. That's a lifetime in Hollywood,
virgos all the time. We love to Okay, I love
it seven years going strong. UM. To sum it up
before I let you go, what would you say is
the best thing about marriage? Mm? Hmm. That made me
(35:16):
all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it. I'll go first, UM,
I think that the best, most beautiful thing about marriage
is it's having a partner that you can I can
see you at your most vulnerable and your worst, and
(35:38):
your most hurt and your most scared, and they're right
there with you. And that's just like the most comforting,
beautiful moment and experience to have and to have a
person that you trust we'll go there with you when
you need them is really wonderful. It's beautiful. Yeah. I
think the first thing that attracted me to Malory was
(35:59):
I just always felt like I could be a better
person when I was around her, and that has kind
of carried over over all these years of marriage as
well as I'm just evolving into a person that I
didn't even imagine existed because I'm married to Mallory and
I've learned from her and We've gone through, you know,
ups and downs, which has really molded me into the
(36:20):
person that I'm meant today. And um, I think it's
I think it's been a beautiful right, y'all are gonna
make me shut it back to here? I can't. This
is so I love it. I love it well. You
can clearly see the love of y'all can't see you,
but I can see it on the video. The love
is certainly there. And I appreciate you sharing, um, not
just your your ups and your highs, but your lows
(36:41):
and your struggles with our audience, because it's through that
that we empower and encourage one another. So thank you
for sharing your story, and you guys, make sure you
check out Mallory and Strong. You can find them on Instagram,
check out their podcast. Thank you both so much for
joining me today. Thank you there was a lot of
fun than Hi Happy Bet. There you have it. Hope
(37:03):
you enjoyed this episode of Hot Happy Mess and Special Things.
Again to Mallary Instrums for being so open and vulnerable
and sharing their tips and tools with us. As you know,
those of us who are navigating this whole lifetime commitment thing,
navigate this lifetime commitment thing. In the meantime, if you
have not given a five star review, today is the
(37:27):
perfect day. Someone told me to tell you that this
is the day that you should do that. So if
you love this episode, if you're loving Hot Happy Mess,
go ahead and drop us a line, a sentence or two.
Was awesome And you don't even really got to do that.
You can just say this with five star review, you
know what I'm saying. So whatever's on your heart, whatever
is in my heart to do, keep up with me
at Zurie Hall's the U R I H A L
(37:49):
L on Instagram and we have an Instagram page for
How Happy Mess, so you can keep the good vibes going,
the positivity, the wellness, the funny, the group chat energy
all week long, now just on Monday, so I have
new episodes. So follow us at Hot Happy Mess and
I will see you next Monday. By guys m
M Hot Happy Mess, Celebrate your magic in the middle
of life's messes. Hot Happy That. I'm Zurie Hall and
this is Hot Happy Made Shoot. Hello, Hello, what is up?
(00:25):
Welcome back to another episode of Hot Happy Mess. I'm
your host, Zuri Hall, and we are in the thick
of our loving relationship series. Coming to a close, guys,
coming to a close pretty soon. Here a couple of um,
really important topics. We've been talking a lot about love
in the air. We're gonna talk about some of the
(00:46):
heavy stuff to the opposite of love in the air.
We're gonna deep dive into divorced separation and navigating breakup. Um.
But before we get to all of that, let's keep
it positive, shall we. I'm mayor Now what we had
the episode recently on engagement, How to talk about it,
how to bring it up to your partner if you're interested,
(01:08):
and you know, putting a ring on that special finger,
or maybe just a long term commitments to go back
and check that out if you haven't. But today you
got the You made the leap down the aisle. I
don't nobody leaps. That's not a thing. You made the
walk down the aisle, or maybe you were waiting for
someone at the aisle. You're married? Now what today's episode
(01:30):
is going to be a good one because it's kind
of like a mash up a real couple, real story
meets an expert. Okay, because Mallory does double duty since
technically she is one half of this real couple and
she's also a licensed marriage and family therapist. So Mallory
and Strawn's are going to dive into the first year
(01:53):
of marriage and how it was surprisingly difficult for them
and how they got to a play that was good,
really good. And Mallory is also going to share some
of her perspective and some of the work that she
does with her clients since she is a licensed marriage
and family therapist. Strawn's and Mallory are going to go
into a little bit of attachment style there on opposite
(02:14):
of the spectrum, and y'all know I love an attachment
theory moment. Go back to the entire episode dedicated to
it if you haven't heard it yet. And finally, this
week's party trip, Three relationship vocabulary words that will change
the way you communicate. I love these prompts. They are
(02:36):
three things that you can put into practice with your
partner like today and I'm already using I've already used
rather at least one of them, really excited to introduce
the other two into my relationship. It's really good stuff.
So Malory's gonna drop that at the end. So, without
further ado, here are Mallory and Strawn. Mallory is a
(02:57):
licensed marriage and family therapist and her hus Been Strans
is an advocate for all Things therapy. Their mission is
to help happy couples get the support and tools they
need to stop arguing and circled. Halle Yeah, I can't
wait for those and start connecting in conflict. And Mallory
and Strawn's doing together on their Instagram at Make Marriage
(03:17):
Work and their podcast Make Marriage Work to share tips
and resources to help happy couples argue better and connect more.
Mallory strands, how are you We're doing We're so excited
to be here. Thank you for joining me. Y'all can't
see this right now, but they are sharing the same
pair of air pods or air buds whatever. They have
(03:39):
a chord, which makes it all the more romantic to
have a button their air that. I'm loving it. Um,
So this episode is all about marriage right The last episode,
we were talking about engagement, how to know if, um,
the person that you're with is that person or not,
when to walk away, how to navigate those conversation. And
(04:00):
this episode is exciting because it assumes you have made
it past the hump of are they the one or
are they not? The verdict was they are. So. Um,
marriage might not be for everyone, but certainly even if
you're considering long term partnership or any sort of commitment
in that space. UM, I hope that this will be applicable.
So just to kick things off, Mallory Strands, tell us
(04:22):
a little bit about yourselves, about your relationship. How you met,
fell in love and you know eventually tither not, Yeah,
I'll go for it. Um. So we met in college, Um,
and we dated, got engaged, got married like within a year.
(04:43):
So we did it real click. Okay what year college
are we talking? Are we talking freshman year or was
it no? No? No, thanks thanks for kay. Um. And
so we always like to say because like kind of
dating was just this like honey moon, whirlwind, quick engagement,
like so excited. Um, once we got married, moved in together,
(05:06):
it was like, oh, let's figure out how to do
this relationship thing, this argument thing, because we really hadn't
crossed that very much before being married, and so it's
very new and very challenging. Yea, yeah, yeah, you know,
we had minimal conflict dating. You know, we had a
few moments of conflict, but when we got married or like,
(05:29):
how do we navigate this because everything happens so quickly, Yeah,
really quickly, because that first year right, like very often
that's still the honeymoon phase and you're feeling good and
everything's great, and then obviously real life is like, hey,
what's up. We're here to say. Um, So I'm curious
to know was there any reason in particular that you
guys decided to you know, tie them out so quickly
(05:50):
or you just like when you know, you know, or
was it for some other reason? Yeah, good question. We
kind of it was kind of a combination of when
you know, you know, and we're both Christian, and it's
just kind of culturally that was like kind of the norm,
like once you find a person, you just kind of
go for it and then you've been together and that
type of like pattern, and so it's just kind of
(06:12):
what we grew up. I used to um, and so
I think there's cool things about that because we just
kind of like committed and then we were in and
we're like, let's figure this out. But I also think
that I always say we lucked out because we didn't
know each other that well when we got married, like
(06:32):
we thought we did. But really those first couple of years,
I think it takes a few years together and even
living together to like really get to know someone on
that level. And so luckily we were all in and
figured it out together. So a year top you tie
and that you're in this marriage thing. Um, talk to
(06:53):
me a little bit about that first year. They always
say the first year is the hardest. What was that experience?
Like you too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were you know,
like I mentioned earlier, minimal conflict when when we were
dating and then when we were married we were living together. Um,
whenever conflict came up. Both of us have like different
(07:14):
types of reactions. When here we have conflict. I'm more
of like the shut down. You know, I'll sleep on
in then tomorrow, you know, we won't have an issue
in the middle of that. Yeah, I'm like, you know what,
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna knock out right now.
And then we'll and then we'll reconvene when I wake
(07:36):
up and hopefully everything you don't have simmer down. Mallory,
on the other hand, is the exact opposite. So she
wants to she wants to solve the issues, to resolve
the issues right now. And I'm just like, like every
I want to say every night, but like a lot
of nights, you know, we would have like these conversations
before we go to sleep, and I'm like, I'm so tired,
(07:57):
I can't like engage right now. Can we like continue
this tomorrow after we've slapped, And I was like, no,
We're gonna start right now. So we're just like hug
it up. So so we saw ourselves like falling into
the cycle of like, you know, we kind of understood
our our personalities when it came to conflict. I was
(08:19):
more of the flight. She was more of the fight. Um,
and it just didn't work out well, it did work out.
That was that that. It's interesting to hear you say
that because I am obsessed with attachment theory. I talk
about it all the time on this show, and we
had an entire episode dedicated to it, and so I
am more like ustrons where I'm I can be a
(08:41):
little avoidant or dismissive or I'm like I can't do this,
like it's all a big jumble and I just shut down.
I can't compute it until I have space and time
to just kind of work through it. And my partner,
my boyfriend, is the opposite. He's like, let's talk about
it now, let's talk about everything. Let's turn over we
stone And I'm just like, oh my god. So we
have slowly over time figured out how to respect what
(09:03):
the other person needs, and it sounds like you twould
have done the same, And Um, through that episode, we
realized that combination is the most prevalent when it comes
to couples. Is is that balance and what can be
discouraging at first can actually become a really cool yin
Yang situation where once you figure out how to communicate
(09:24):
in a healthy way. I think being opposite helps the
other kind of see a different way to communicate, you know,
and sort of appreciate a different perspective that maybe they
didn't relate to. How did you two solve that? How
did you fix the the fact that you are opposite
in the communication spectrum? Yeah, so that's um, I was
(09:50):
a nursing school, is what I did my undergrad in.
And then early in our marriage, I said I think
I want to be a therapist and decided to go
back to school. And so what the in the first
year of marriage, I started my Marriage and Family therapy
graduate program and really gravitated towards a couple of stuff,
probably because we were trying to figure out the couple
of stuff. And so I started working with couples and
(10:12):
reading all these books about relationships and attachment theory. I
love of attachment theory, UM, and then I was like,
if I'm going to be a couple of therapists, we
should probably go a couple of therapy. And so we
did that too, and so it's kind of a combination,
like we kind of call that kind of second year
are like marriage boot camp, where we were like taking
everything I learned at school and like working really hard
(10:34):
to apply it. We were going to a couple of therapy,
and we were like, We're going to figure this out
because we wanted so badly to connect and understand each
other and um find each other in those moments, but
we just didn't quite have the tools. Okay, so as
you learned what were those tools that you learned. You know,
obviously hopefully some people at least listening to this episode
(10:55):
are new to marriage or entering that space soon. Um,
what what are the keys to communication in a marriage
that you kind of realized in that crash course of
the first couple of years of marriage. So one of
our favorites and kind of goes along with that kind
of stuck pattern we were talking about of like the
fight or flight or the kind of pursuer withdrawer um
(11:19):
is learning how to take healthy, productive breaks or time
outs when we're in that place. Um. And so like
a good example is when at my bridal shower, like
three people, their wedding advice was like, never go to
bed angry. And so that's part of why I was
so stuck on like don't don't go to sleep strongs,
(11:41):
like we need to figure this out. I'm going to sleep,
I promise here right right. And so once I kind
of started learning about like how we keep saying fight
or flight and so back to attachment theory. Attachment theory
(12:02):
is kind of the basis of the therapy I do
with couples too, and so our minds are wired for
connection and when that connection feels threatened by um any conflict,
even if it's over like we bought the wrong cereal,
Like it doesn't have to be this big divorce conflict,
but any conflict triggers our mind to say, your relationship
(12:23):
is threatened, and therefore your survival is threatened, and we
literally go into that fight or flight mode where we're
not thinking rationally or logically and we're not going to
have that productive conversation. And so we were like spending
hours in that place. And once we realized how to
recognize it and take some time apart to regulate and
think through what happened and how we're feeling and just
(12:45):
kind of soothe ourselves, we could go back to it
and it was so much easier. So how did you, guys,
or how do you currently navigate that? Right? So if
there's a moment where it's like, oh, I don't want
to talk right now, like I can't do this, but
the other person really wants to, how do you negotiate that?
How do you decide when when are we going to
(13:06):
talk so that both people feel good about when it's happening,
and you know, from the person who's a little bit
like not right now, how do we say that in
a way that's loving and that says I care about you,
but I just need a second so that I can
show up in the way you need. And then also
for the person who's like I need it now, how
(13:26):
can they sort of understand and not bite the bullet
that sounds dense, but be okay, comfortable, feel safe with
waiting a little bit longer than they would like to
have that anxiety lesson. How do you how does that
conversation happen? What do you what do you say? Yeah,
that's a great question. Yeah. It took a lot of
(13:49):
work for us, like years of work to slowly build
that trust between each other. Um So, at the very beginning,
you know, it was really hard to kind of communicate,
like for my self, who's kind of been that withdrawal
state whenever conflict arises around like I'm needing space to
like self regulate, like for some reason I can't have
(14:11):
like a productive conversation right now. So we slowly started
to um use some of the tools that Malory was
was learning in school, and that was around like I
need space for like I don't know, thirty minutes just
to kind of you know, self regulate and then hopefully
we could come back and I could tell you how
(14:33):
I was feeling during that conversation or during that time
of conflict where we could have maybe a more productive
conversation um about it. But again, it took a lot
of a lot of trust in and years of work
to like know that either I was going to come
back or Mallory was going to come back to that conversation. Well,
actually talk about it as opposed to you know, sweeping
(14:54):
it under the rugs, you know, and then just pretending
everything is okay after after like thirty minutes or something,
which is my gut Instagram, like, we could just pretend
it's never happened, right and not guys, So, Mallory, from
your perspective, you know, Strong's is saying I need maybe
thirty minutes and self regulating. That takes a certain level
(15:16):
of self awareness, which is awesome when you've cultivated it.
What was that self awareness for you? What did you
realize you were doing that maybe you could do differently?
And then what does that sound like when you're having
a conversation with him about how to respect his boundaries
while also honoring yours. Yeah, beautifully said, I think kind
(15:37):
of like what Strong said is it was practiced, and
I was building that trust, and so as he was
building like a willingness and awareness to say I need
a break, And that's that's another kind of tip I
always say, is he said it really eloquently and clearly
in this moment, but in the moment when things are heated,
it might just sound like I need a break. And
if you've talked about that beforehand of what that means,
(16:01):
then that sends to me this message of Okay, I
can take this deep breath, and he's taking a break
because he's realizing this isn't getting anywhere, and I'm going
to trust he'll come back to me. And then as
he did come back to it, which took him practice,
that taught me that I can regulate on my own.
(16:21):
I cannot take it so personally like it's easy for
me to go to a place of he's taking a
break because he doesn't care, he doesn't love me, or
like we're doomed, like I can get really kind of dramatical. Yeah, yeah,
And so as I trust, like, Okay, when he goes
away to take a break, it actually works better when
it comes back. That helps me to kind of do
(16:43):
my own work in those breaks to kind of take
deep breaths and regulate and talk myself through like he
does love me, he cares about me. We're going to
figure this out. What are your I don't know too,
maybe top three tips when it comes to the first
few years of navigating marriage. What would you hope that
people keep in mind when you are working with your clients?
(17:07):
What what are the things that we should be aware
of and what are the things that we should realize
aren't what the fairy books tell us, so that we
don't think we're losing our minds or our marriage because
it's not what Disney saying or totally Yeah, I think
we touched on some of them already. But one big
(17:28):
one we like to like preach is like, go to
bed angry. That's okay. That doesn't mean your marriages do.
It actually means you'll probably wake up and it'd be like,
why are we so mad last night? Um? And so
that's been like so helpful for us, and and not
that you want to go to bed like really mean
and that type of thing, but it's okay to go
to bed with it without it unresolved. Late you're tired, um,
(17:52):
and it's it's really gonna be a lot better in
the morning. Yeah, sleep it off. I'm an advocate for that.
I've I struggled that in the past to you because
I when my boyfriend and I got together with the
same thing too. We're never going to go bit angry.
We're not like like six months in, I was like,
I will see you in the morning, I have a
good night to have good dreams. I will pray for you,
(18:15):
but I will not talk to you right now. I like,
and that's that. So and and here we are happier
and stronger than ever. And I think taking that pressure
off of yourself and your partner to resolve everything in
the moment. Sometimes you're just not ready mentally or emotionally
to go there, particularly the one who tends to withdraw
(18:38):
or be avoidant. And you know, I've gotten to the
point where I realized, Hey, I want to show up
for you, and I can't do it right now. So
we can engage and we can talk, but it won't
do what we wanted to do because for whatever reason,
I'm wired in this way where I just kind of
need to um, decompress, process my emotions and my thoughts.
(18:58):
It's harder for me to articulate difficult emotions. And I
talked we're living, but it's really hard to say how
I feel about something, especially when I hurt. And and
once you know, he realized that that wasn't commentary on
him or anything. He was doing it just so how
I'm wired. There's way more compassion. And you're so right.
The mornings are much better. It's like, okay, l O
(19:20):
l j K, We're good. Um. One thing that I
would love to talk to you two about is obviously
you're you're in it, well not obviously if you're listening
to this, but you're in an interracial marriage, and um,
I am in an interracial relationship also, And I'm curious
to know. Maybe this hasn't been the case for you,
(19:41):
but how has navigating that space been for you? Do
you feel like there are conversations or understandings to be had.
Do you feel like it was easy for you to
transition into that? What was that experience? Like? Yeah, good question. Yeah. So, uh,
I was born and raised a city, Utah. I'm a
(20:01):
I'm a Pacific islander, so you know, my my family
came from the island of Tonga, um, and I'm white
in Chicago. UM. Yeah, we it was. It was very
interesting to um when we were dating, UM to kind
(20:25):
of take it back. You know, we met at church, UM,
so we kind of had that that that bridge, that
commonality there, um, you know between religion where like um,
my ethnic background or like Mallory's ethnic background. We really
didn't talk about that when we were dating. UM. It
was probably more when we got married and we were
living together that um, you know, are we really saw
(20:49):
our cultures clash? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so like
high level, like my culture is very um collective us UM,
you know, we kind of look out for one another
um and then what you know, has its pros and
cons um. But then Mallory, on the other hand, it
(21:10):
was a little more individualistic. Uh. And it was and
you know there were times in our in our marriage
where um, you know where we really saw that um
clash and I was like, what is what is going on?
And like I was like, mal like, if you love me,
(21:30):
like this is what I was thinking. I was like, well,
if you love me, like we would go to like
this family event. And then Mallane on the other hand,
is like we've been working like all week, Like can
we just have like a day to ourselves? And like
I heard that as like you don't love me, you know,
the family, um, And you know she was kind of
on the defensive during those times while like, no, I
(21:52):
just want to like spend time like just me and
you because we haven't seen each other all week, and UM,
you know that's where I really saw are our cultures
clash was kind of a Yeah. I think that has
been and still is kind of the biggest like cultural
value difference that we've seen. UM. And it's taken a
(22:14):
lot of building understanding of where that's coming from and
how we were taught those values and what they mean
to us, and UM trying to understand that even though
they clash, that that doesn't mean um either as bad
and there's actually really beautiful things we can both learn
from both of them. UM, And we try to kind
(22:35):
of find that balance but tricky sometimes. Yeah, yeah, do
you have is I keep going back to as we're negotiation,
It's not a hostage situation, guys. I do not look
at marriage is a hostage situation. I cannot waits to
be married. I'm very excited about it. But the word
negotiation maybe compromises the word I'm looking for or you know,
(22:57):
meeting in the middle. How how do you navigate that?
Is it a compromise of Okay, I can do this,
I can go to this many family reunions and I
might have do that, but you know, so that you
can feel good. And then Strawn's You're like, I promised
Sunday afternoons are all ours and I'm not picking up
(23:17):
the phone and we're not going to go to brunch
with the friends or whatever. This is like what did
that look like for you to wear both of you
felt good about what you needed? Yeah. Yeah, compromise is
a really good word. Um, you know, just kind of
go back to example of like you know, my my
one of my cousins is holding like you know, we'll
get together or eating and I'm like we're going um,
(23:40):
and I'm like, I haven't ever heard you talk about
that cousin because I am strong when it comes to
like avoid it, but Malory, I'm all day when it
comes to like we saw them a year ago, Like yeah,
so um, but you know, like for example, will instead
(24:03):
of like going there all night, we'll like cap it
off at like hey, two hours, Max we'll get in,
we'll say what's up to the family, we'll eat some
good food, and then we'll head out and then we
could kind of, you know, maybe get some dessert together
or just you know, kind of do us and um,
you know, it's it's not a zero sum game. It's
not like, you know, we're gonna go to my family's
(24:25):
eating because it's important to me. And if you don't,
like I feel like you don't love me. And that's
that's what I was going to say, is I think
even though we found some kind of logistic compromises like that,
I think we really every time this comes up, hath
to go down to like what emotionally is going on
for each of us and if strong's can share, like,
(24:47):
like I'm thinking of one example, hopefully this is cool,
this example. But one example was when we were living
in Utah Biola, his family We're planning on going to
his brother's basketball game and I was down, but then
I found out that his brother was benched from the
game because he was late, and Strawn still wanted to
drive an hour to go watch his brother be then
(25:07):
Straw the game. So I was like really struggling to
like understand like if this is a great excuse, like
we'll watch a movie and go about early and it'll
be awesome. But he was able to share like I
want to show up to like show my brother that,
like we're there for him whether things go well or not,
and like this is important to me, and then we
(25:28):
can have tomorrow to ourselves. And I could share like
I'm just really exhausted and really Missy, we've had test
this week or whatever it was, and he can say, yeah,
let's let's have tomorrow will be artic. So I think
figuring out what's underneath our desires was really important rather
(25:49):
than just being like, you're selfish, you're not understanding me.
If that makes sense, let's just go. Let's just go.
And for her it's not, let's just go. But I
love that. I love that perspective. It really is about
understanding your partner, and once you remember that and commit
to it, it becomes sometimes exciting, sometimes exhausting, equal parts
(26:10):
exhausting and exciting. But to understand why someone is the
way they are instead of being frustrated that they aren't
the way you are makes to me. That's what I
look at, as you know, and I hope it will
be the case. I'm not married yet, but like, that
is the great commitment. I'm dedicating a lifetime to understanding
(26:31):
you better and learning you more and not taking offense
to things I used to take offense to you because
now I get where that comes from. And I'm more
ready to support you because I'm learning you. So I
think it's beautiful hearing that, because at first, girl I
was with you, I was like, wait, sitting on the bench,
we're just gonna walk on him. But hearing Strawn's perspective,
(26:51):
I honestly almost got chills. It's beautiful to to say
I'm here for you and I support you whether you're
on the bench or the court, and that's what matters,
and that's some bigger than a game. Right. Um, Yeah,
that's that's awesome. That's really beautiful. That. Yeah, but that
conversation took like two plus hours from why are you
like because we need to like going like because we
(27:15):
need to support my brother and Mallory was like, what
do you mean? But like eventually we kind of got
to the underlying practice. Now we can get to that
party quicker. Yeah, that's awesome. You mentioned, Mallory, um that
you decided you know, maybe we could do a couples
therapy since you were deciding to become a couple's therapists. Um,
(27:38):
for the folks who are listening who might be considering
couples therapy as a licensed marriage and family therapist, what
type of prep work do you suggest we do if
we're interested in taking that next step? What are signs
that maybe we should consider it? Yeah? Great question, and
that that was another thought I had even for engaged
couples and early married couples, Like I always have a
(28:00):
proponent for just go try a couple of therapy, and
in terms of prepping for it or signs of like
when it could be useful, I think, like so many things,
it could be useful for so many things. But I
think how we kind of use it in our relationship
even still is when I get to a place where
we're like, we worked that out and we feel good,
(28:23):
but we're still a little bit stuck, and it would
feel really good to have someone help us take that
a little bit deeper and understand it a little bit better,
or give us some perspective or tools to connect even
more deeply. And another thing I always say too is
a lot of couples will kind of start to think like, oh,
maybe we should try a couple of therapy, and they'll
(28:43):
put it off, put it off, put it off, and
then they'll have these years of kind of either resentment
or bad habits, and that's a lot harder to unpack
in therapy, and so really going in early and kind
of trying to push away that stigma that's totally there
of a couple of therapies for broken couples, couples on
the verge of divorce um and realizing a couple of
(29:05):
therapy can actually be just the tool to strength in
our relationship and help us grow closer. And even if
you go in and are kind of like we love
each other, we don't really know what we want to
talk about, but we want to grow closer, Like couple
of therapists will be so pumped to have you in
their office and help you out. Okay, okay, And we
do recognize that, you know, in many cases, seeking therapy
(29:25):
can be a privilege if you can't affordative. It's if
it's not an option for you. Are there any books, articles,
podcasts that you suggest our listeners seek out. Yes, So
one thought, I'll say too is UM both in college
and even after college, and we were still getting our
careers going UM, check out university is near you because
(29:48):
they have either free or really discounted couples therapy from
master's students, doctor students, and so if you call them
and you just say like, they usually will check them
make sure you're like low income or really need the support. UM.
But if you kind of check a few boxes, that's
like a really great way to get a therapist who
still in training but working really hard to help you,
(30:11):
UM for free or cheap. Okay, I like it, um. Yeah.
And then books anything by Sue Johnson or John Gottman,
And so Sue Johnson's kind of biggest book I recommend
is called Hold Me It's Height, and that kind of
talks about all the good attachment theory stuff and has
good exercises for couples and things like that. And then
(30:34):
John dominoes lots of amazing books. I like to recommend
Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. That's like lots of
good basics UM, and also exercises for couples. Okay, great stuff.
Thank you for that. Before I let you go. UM.
We do a party trick often on the episode where
it's just a fun little takeaway and I would love
to hear you guys have shared this via your socials before.
(30:57):
For this week's party trick, Three relationship BOCAP words. If
you can give us three words that are going to
change the way that we communicate and that you know,
we can practice putting into practice with our partner. What
would they be and why? Yes? Yeah? So the first one, uh,
(31:18):
for all of us conflict avoided with drawers, the word flooding.
So you know, whenever we're in high conflict, we like
physically or physiologically feel like our chest is tight um
and we just feel like we can't like pass it,
and like sometimes are like heart rate changes and it's
sometimes hard to breathe or to even think logically. Um,
(31:40):
So whenever you're in a high conflict situation, um, just
communicating to your partner like, hey, I'm feeling kind of
flooded right now, and then kind of going back to
that like I may need some time for like me
to self regulation. So the first word is flooded, right
feel um yeah blooded? Okay, I'll be using that from
here on a good Okay, flooded. What's the next one? UM.
(32:02):
The next one is trigger or triggered, So really in conflict,
paying attention to um, what was the trigger? So what
was the moment that took us to this big emotional place,
so it could even trigger past her that has nothing
to do at the present moment or current hurt that's
(32:23):
coming up. And to be able to pinpoint like it
was when you said this, or it was the tone
of voice that you said this, UM that brought this
emotion up for me, can really help clarify what kind
of went wrong and help your partner understand why you
reacted the way you did. So saying like this triggered
me or I was triggered by this triggers we've got flooding,
(32:45):
we've got triggered. What's the third vocab word we should introduce? Yes,
the third is a harsh startup. So some of these
are from Harsh startup is from John Gottman UM, and
I love it because it's this idea that if we
approached a conversation with a harsh startup, which is basically
going to be like harsh tone of voice, or criticism
(33:09):
or blame, yes, absolutely, any of those kind of harsh approaches.
He has research that shows like nineties, seven percent of
the time, it's gonna fail, Like a conversation is not
going to go well, and so making sure we approach
our partner with a soft startup instead, um, is so
(33:32):
important to give yourself the best opportunity to have a
productive conversation. And so having that word of like that
felt like a harsh startup, let's try again, or keeping
in mind when you're going up to your partner, let
me try to have this be a soft startup instead. Um,
it can be really helpful. I love that harsh startup.
It's it's great to hear that because it's a label
(33:52):
for what I think so many of us have felt.
And I'm like, oh god, if you would have just
start up this way or instead of that way, but
you just came out swinging and now I'm just so
we get back, you know. Like, So it's it's nice
to be able to have that label so you can say, hey,
this is what it felt like for me. So can
we just hit reset and try again? Um? Mallory Strands,
y'all are awesome. If people want to keep up with you,
(34:12):
follow you, maybe book a session. Where can they where
can they find you? Yeah? So on Instagram. UM. Our
our name is at Make Marriage Work. We also have
a podcast same name, Make Marriage Work. You can find
that on Apple podcast or even Spotify. UM and those
(34:33):
are the best places to find us Instagram or podcast.
Like you said at the beginning, we welcome single people,
dating people, engage people, people who are not interested in
marriage but in a long term relationships. So we say
make marriage work. But it's just talking about feelings and
conflict and connection and all and how long? How long
have you two been married? Now? Coming up on something?
(34:55):
Okay sent me to you. That's a lifetime in Hollywood,
virgos all the time. We love to Okay, I love
it seven years going strong. UM. To sum it up
before I let you go, what would you say is
the best thing about marriage? Mm? Hmm. That made me
(35:16):
all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it. I'll go first, UM,
I think that the best, most beautiful thing about marriage
is it's having a partner that you can I can
see you at your most vulnerable and your worst, and
(35:38):
your most hurt and your most scared, and they're right
there with you. And that's just like the most comforting,
beautiful moment and experience to have and to have a
person that you trust we'll go there with you when
you need them is really wonderful. It's beautiful. Yeah. I
think the first thing that attracted me to Malory was
(35:59):
I just always felt like I could be a better
person when I was around her, and that has kind
of carried over over all these years of marriage as
well as I'm just evolving into a person that I
didn't even imagine existed because I'm married to Mallory and
I've learned from her and We've gone through, you know,
ups and downs, which has really molded me into the
(36:20):
person that I'm meant today. And um, I think it's
I think it's been a beautiful right, y'all are gonna
make me shut it back to here? I can't. This
is so I love it. I love it well. You
can clearly see the love of y'all can't see you,
but I can see it on the video. The love
is certainly there. And I appreciate you sharing, um, not
just your your ups and your highs, but your lows
(36:41):
and your struggles with our audience, because it's through that
that we empower and encourage one another. So thank you
for sharing your story, and you guys, make sure you
check out Mallory and Strong. You can find them on Instagram,
check out their podcast. Thank you both so much for
joining me today. Thank you there was a lot of
fun than Hi Happy Bet. There you have it. Hope
(37:03):
you enjoyed this episode of Hot Happy Mess and Special Things.
Again to Mallary Instrums for being so open and vulnerable
and sharing their tips and tools with us. As you know,
those of us who are navigating this whole lifetime commitment thing,
navigate this lifetime commitment thing. In the meantime, if you
have not given a five star review, today is the
(37:27):
perfect day. Someone told me to tell you that this
is the day that you should do that. So if
you love this episode, if you're loving Hot Happy Mess,
go ahead and drop us a line, a sentence or two.
Was awesome And you don't even really got to do that.
You can just say this with five star review, you
know what I'm saying. So whatever's on your heart, whatever
is in my heart to do, keep up with me
at Zurie Hall's the U R I H A L
(37:49):
L on Instagram and we have an Instagram page for
How Happy Mess, so you can keep the good vibes going,
the positivity, the wellness, the funny, the group chat energy
all week long, now just on Monday, so I have
new episodes. So follow us at Hot Happy Mess and
I will see you next Monday. By guys m
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.