October 1, 2021 • 18 mins
Arguing is one way children assert themselves, but for parents that can lead to frustration and even anger. Dr. Saltz tells how to use arguments to lay the groundwork for a better, long-term relationship.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
These are challenging times, but you don't have to navigate
them alone. Welcome to how can I Help? I'm Dr
GAYL Saltz. I'm a clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the New York Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and best selling author,
and I'm here every week to answer your most pressing questions,
(00:27):
hopefully with understanding, insight, and advice. In case you didn't
read the fine print, it's in your child's contract to
continuously argue with you, which is why today I'm answering
a question I received from an exasperated parent about their
child's argumentativeness. Arguing in general is really exhausting. It's draining
(00:54):
and even at times and raging. Arguing is often very
disruptive to the entire household, but kids need to assert
their growing autonomy, and that often comes in the form
of picking arguments with you. What is really important to
remember is that it takes two to tango. It really
(01:18):
isn't reasonable or healthy to stop all arguing, but it
is important to stop arguing destructively. Arguing can in fact
be very constructive for you and your child if done
with some thinking about it up front. Arguing is merely
the two of you voicing your differing opinions and then
(01:42):
finding a way to make a compromise or you needing
to draw the disciplining line in the sand, depending on
the topic. Being able to assert yourself, be honest, and
compromise are all skills that you're child needs to acquire
and will need to have good relationships throughout their lives,
(02:06):
and how to do all of these things well can
be learned through better arguing with you. Arguing is often
started by a child because they have something they really
want to talk with you about, but they are so
stirred up emotionally by the topic or something related that
they come in exploding all that negative feeling at you.
(02:32):
The key is how you respond to their approach. For
younger children who braws you with wise and whining, which
drives most parents completely nuts, or even defiance, the trick
is to figure out if they are asking because they
are really curious, don't understand, or if the child is
(02:56):
just manipulating you for attention or for problem cation. For
the older child, but why not maybe for the same
attention getting reason, or they may be trying to bring
up with you something they in fact feel concerned about,
and what you have to do is avoid attacking back,
(03:18):
which will prevent them from opening up to you and
let them get to what is really bothering them. So
let's get to my listeners question and see how can
I help, dear doctor Saults. My seven year old daughter
has as of recent become a big arguer instead of
(03:40):
just doing what she would usually do, like do her
school work, brush your teeth, lean up her toys. Because
I've told her to, she will either say why or
say I don't want to, I'll do it later after
my TV show. And when I say oh, or just
(04:01):
do it, she persists arguing, asking why she has to
or why she can't just do it later. I feel
like everything is coming down to this argument, and it
is exhausting, frustrating, and it's really making me angry, and
it really makes everything harder. She is also getting obviously
(04:22):
frustrated with me and has even begun shouting or storming around, whining,
negotiating just about anything to keep going. What is going on?
Why is this happening? Is there anything I can do
to decrease this behavior? It's not surprising that your seven
(04:44):
year old has begun arguing with you, or another way
I might frame it is questioning your requests and reasons.
This behavior can signal a move towards a little more
autonomy for her, and she is cognitively old enough to
desire more autonomy and to strive to have it. By
(05:06):
asking if each of these things you want her to
do are things that she will decide to do that,
she is often asking why as supposed to just saying no,
indicate she has expanding curiosity and in her own mind
is looking for how to think about doing things that
(05:27):
she doesn't like to do, how to manage her own
feelings about that, and when and whether she has to
listen to you. She's also realizing she has some free will,
and that is probably a new realization. This doesn't make
her bad, and it doesn't make her a manipulator. It
(05:51):
makes her a fairly typical seven year old. But with
the additional caveat that if things are particularly RESTful for
her in some way, for example at school or at home,
then those feelings will easily get poured into testing her
limits and struggling with you and struggling with herself. So
(06:16):
if this is new behavior, first I would spend some
time playing and talking with her at a non argument
moment about her feelings. How is she feeling at school?
Is there anything going on that's bothering or or stressing her?
How about at home? How about with her siblings? How
(06:37):
about with friends and with other people in her life?
How is her mood? Is she worried about something? Is
there something going on that she may need to talk
about and sort out. When it comes to the arguing itself, however,
it is important to hold two possibly opposing ideas at once.
(07:01):
That your daughter get to feel heard and that she
still understand that she has limits. A child with no
limits finds the world a very scary place. It actually
increases anxiety. Children who are left to feel that they
can always get their own way or do what they
(07:22):
want can feel like monsters, and that is anxiety producing.
So I'm not suggesting you not have limits. But a
child who can't tell you or show you how she
feels is also often emotionally undone. And a child who
(07:44):
is asking why is often asking so she can really
understand why. So when she asks why, or even before
she asks, it would be really helpful for you to
give an explanation of why why she needs to do
her homework before she gets to watch any more screen
(08:05):
time or whatever it is that's going on and that
you're asking her to do. It can actually diffuse the
budding argument before it even starts. Yes, it takes an
extra minute, but it lets her know that she has
been heard by you. It's okay and even good to
be curious and to understand her own feelings, and it
(08:29):
may keep her from getting more frustrated. And she does
sound mad, ask her if she is, and if she's mad,
why is she mad? It helps to have your child
to be able to think about their own feelings and
discuss them, and actually it often diffuses that intensity of feeling.
(08:52):
So if you see her getting mad, say hey, I
see you're really mad. Why are you mad? Can you
explain it to me? Rather than saying because I said
so when it comes down to it, or some other
authoritarian statement which is actually meant to just shut her
(09:13):
down and do it, but will likely have her dig
in further with resistance. In fact, we know that authoritarian
parenting style usually leads to rebellion. It will just make
your situation far worse. When she approaches her tween and
teen years, so at this age of seven. Avoid that
(09:36):
kind of I just told you to do it, so
do it. Say why you're asking her or telling her
to do it. In other words, explain the rule and
repeat back to her your understanding that she'd rather not
do it, but that while that's hard, she will still
need to do it. You have shown her this way
(09:59):
you have some respect for her feelings. You've told her
none the less that she still needs to respect you
and your rules. Be willing to hear her ideas for
accomplishing the same task a slightly different way. Many parents
here this as manipulation, and it's true that it may
be negotiation. But if you're willing to hear her idea
(10:22):
and consider it and her feelings and it still gets
the task done, this will actually help your relationship in
the future, help her to develop communication skills going forward
in all kinds of relationships. At times, if there is,
in your opinion, a reasonable way to compromise on some things,
(10:45):
show her that this can work as a way to
resolve arguing, because in life this is a way to
resolve arguing, But also remain clear that as her mother,
you do hold the final say and she does need
to respect you, and that you can comfort her in
(11:06):
disappointment if you said to her, hey, this is the
final say at the same time allowing her to be
and feel disappointed. How can I help with Dr Gail
Salts will be back after this short break. Here are
(11:31):
some general tips for arguing with your children, because arguments
with your children continue for the young and for the
older child. But the young child, I say to you,
know your limits. It's fine to answer the why question
a few times, but you know eventually you're going to
blow your stack, so don't wait till you get there.
(11:55):
Pick your number up front. How many wise is really okay?
And frankly the numbers shouldn't probably be more than three,
because beyond that, this is just your child starting to
engage in provocation. After that answer one of several snappy retorts,
you thought ahead, like I just don't have all the
(12:18):
answers or even why are you asking? Then it's time
to stop. You can just smile and engage in something else.
But if you just stop answering at a certain point,
it will peter out, which is a lot better than
when you scream quit it and then feel guilty. Next,
(12:40):
you really want to try to not lose it. Never
stay engaged in argument with your child until you scream.
Certainly never hit or say hurtful things. This is really
destructive arguing and it will be harmful to all of
the is in the house. These tactics never work effectively,
(13:04):
and they leave you with tremendous guilt, which then makes
you try to make it up by spoiling the child,
who will therefore eventually anger you again, and it becomes
a ficious cycle. If you do start to yell, quickly
say you need a quiet moment and stop for a
few minutes, even walk away for a few minutes, regroup
(13:29):
and resume more calmly yet firmly. I am not saying
pretend to be Mary Poppins, because frankly, your child should
see that you can be angry, and it's okay for
your child to see you angry, seeing that humans get
angry and it can still all be okay and they
can still love you and you still love them. What
(13:52):
I am saying is avoid out of control behavior which
can show your child that anger is scary and dangerous. Also,
disengage and limits set pick several methods of disengaging from
the fight it Maybe we need to cool down for now,
(14:14):
let's take five and start again then, or I think
we have discussed this enough for now. If it's about
something they want to do and you don't try, what
is it about, Know that you don't understand. It is
really fine to pick an endpoint and say that's it.
(14:38):
All these things must be backed up by consequences. It
is not enough to threaten. You must follow through with
that time out or that loss of privilege, if that's
where you've arrived. If your child starts it in public,
which they will because they think they can get away
with it, and you feel too embarrassed, set the limit
(15:00):
in front of others, make sure that they get the
consequence when they come home. For older children, your strategies
might change somewhat. Listen to what they are really saying.
If they are arguing about going to a party of
questionable repute, then they may really be trying to tell
(15:22):
you they feel scared about it, but don't know how
to say that because part of them thinks they should
want to go. The same is true of drugs, sex, alcohol, friends, smoking,
and a ton of other things. If you listen carefully
to what they're arguing for, discuss it with them rather
(15:44):
than jumping immediately on it with a shriek of no way.
Then you may get the opportunity to talk with them
about their own fears and help steer them in the
right direction. If you just react, then they will get
their backup, They will argue harder, and they will not
listen to you, and they will go do the very
(16:05):
thing that scares both of you. Also, try to contain
your own anxiety. When we get scared about the topic
of discussion, our temptation is to lash out and stop
them as soon as possible. If you start fighting with them,
(16:26):
all they will have room to think about is how
furious you're making them. So recognize what topics make you anxious,
and when they're coming up, try to wait to respond
until you see what they really are getting at. Try
not to close down the conversation with oh my goodness, no.
(16:48):
Instantly avoid lecturing or interrogating, especially with older kids. Kids
absolutely tune out when you start sharing them or asking
a million questions at once. Let them tell you what
they came to tell you. Give them a chance to
(17:08):
ask your advice. If you give them time, they will
If you force it on them, they will ignore it.
If you barrage them with questions, they will withdraw or
really argue with you in defense, So give them a
chance to explain. It might happen slowly, and it might
(17:30):
happen in multiple conversations, and when an argument is happening,
stick to one topic. Parents in their anger have a
tendency to throw in all the past grievances that they
have with their child in the face of an argument,
really throwing out the baby with the bath water and
(17:52):
recounting every crime they may have committed in their growing up,
and then things become about how bad that child is globally.
If something is going on that is specific that you
are arguing about, stick to that situation, otherwise it becomes
destructive and hurtful. Do you have a problem I can
(18:17):
help with? If so, email me at how can I help?
At Seneca Women dot com. All centers remain anonymous and
listen every Friday too. How can I help with me?
Dr Gail's Salts
These are challenging times, but you don't have to navigate
them alone. Welcome to how can I Help? I'm Dr
GAYL Saltz. I'm a clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the New York Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and best selling author,
and I'm here every week to answer your most pressing questions,
(00:27):
hopefully with understanding, insight, and advice. In case you didn't
read the fine print, it's in your child's contract to
continuously argue with you, which is why today I'm answering
a question I received from an exasperated parent about their
child's argumentativeness. Arguing in general is really exhausting. It's draining
(00:54):
and even at times and raging. Arguing is often very
disruptive to the entire household, but kids need to assert
their growing autonomy, and that often comes in the form
of picking arguments with you. What is really important to
remember is that it takes two to tango. It really
(01:18):
isn't reasonable or healthy to stop all arguing, but it
is important to stop arguing destructively. Arguing can in fact
be very constructive for you and your child if done
with some thinking about it up front. Arguing is merely
the two of you voicing your differing opinions and then
(01:42):
finding a way to make a compromise or you needing
to draw the disciplining line in the sand, depending on
the topic. Being able to assert yourself, be honest, and
compromise are all skills that you're child needs to acquire
and will need to have good relationships throughout their lives,
(02:06):
and how to do all of these things well can
be learned through better arguing with you. Arguing is often
started by a child because they have something they really
want to talk with you about, but they are so
stirred up emotionally by the topic or something related that
they come in exploding all that negative feeling at you.
(02:32):
The key is how you respond to their approach. For
younger children who braws you with wise and whining, which
drives most parents completely nuts, or even defiance, the trick
is to figure out if they are asking because they
are really curious, don't understand, or if the child is
(02:56):
just manipulating you for attention or for problem cation. For
the older child, but why not maybe for the same
attention getting reason, or they may be trying to bring
up with you something they in fact feel concerned about,
and what you have to do is avoid attacking back,
(03:18):
which will prevent them from opening up to you and
let them get to what is really bothering them. So
let's get to my listeners question and see how can
I help, dear doctor Saults. My seven year old daughter
has as of recent become a big arguer instead of
(03:40):
just doing what she would usually do, like do her
school work, brush your teeth, lean up her toys. Because
I've told her to, she will either say why or
say I don't want to, I'll do it later after
my TV show. And when I say oh, or just
(04:01):
do it, she persists arguing, asking why she has to
or why she can't just do it later. I feel
like everything is coming down to this argument, and it
is exhausting, frustrating, and it's really making me angry, and
it really makes everything harder. She is also getting obviously
(04:22):
frustrated with me and has even begun shouting or storming around, whining,
negotiating just about anything to keep going. What is going on?
Why is this happening? Is there anything I can do
to decrease this behavior? It's not surprising that your seven
(04:44):
year old has begun arguing with you, or another way
I might frame it is questioning your requests and reasons.
This behavior can signal a move towards a little more
autonomy for her, and she is cognitively old enough to
desire more autonomy and to strive to have it. By
(05:06):
asking if each of these things you want her to
do are things that she will decide to do that,
she is often asking why as supposed to just saying no,
indicate she has expanding curiosity and in her own mind
is looking for how to think about doing things that
(05:27):
she doesn't like to do, how to manage her own
feelings about that, and when and whether she has to
listen to you. She's also realizing she has some free will,
and that is probably a new realization. This doesn't make
her bad, and it doesn't make her a manipulator. It
(05:51):
makes her a fairly typical seven year old. But with
the additional caveat that if things are particularly RESTful for
her in some way, for example at school or at home,
then those feelings will easily get poured into testing her
limits and struggling with you and struggling with herself. So
(06:16):
if this is new behavior, first I would spend some
time playing and talking with her at a non argument
moment about her feelings. How is she feeling at school?
Is there anything going on that's bothering or or stressing her?
How about at home? How about with her siblings? How
(06:37):
about with friends and with other people in her life?
How is her mood? Is she worried about something? Is
there something going on that she may need to talk
about and sort out. When it comes to the arguing itself, however,
it is important to hold two possibly opposing ideas at once.
(07:01):
That your daughter get to feel heard and that she
still understand that she has limits. A child with no
limits finds the world a very scary place. It actually
increases anxiety. Children who are left to feel that they
can always get their own way or do what they
(07:22):
want can feel like monsters, and that is anxiety producing.
So I'm not suggesting you not have limits. But a
child who can't tell you or show you how she
feels is also often emotionally undone. And a child who
(07:44):
is asking why is often asking so she can really
understand why. So when she asks why, or even before
she asks, it would be really helpful for you to
give an explanation of why why she needs to do
her homework before she gets to watch any more screen
(08:05):
time or whatever it is that's going on and that
you're asking her to do. It can actually diffuse the
budding argument before it even starts. Yes, it takes an
extra minute, but it lets her know that she has
been heard by you. It's okay and even good to
be curious and to understand her own feelings, and it
(08:29):
may keep her from getting more frustrated. And she does
sound mad, ask her if she is, and if she's mad,
why is she mad? It helps to have your child
to be able to think about their own feelings and
discuss them, and actually it often diffuses that intensity of feeling.
(08:52):
So if you see her getting mad, say hey, I
see you're really mad. Why are you mad? Can you
explain it to me? Rather than saying because I said
so when it comes down to it, or some other
authoritarian statement which is actually meant to just shut her
(09:13):
down and do it, but will likely have her dig
in further with resistance. In fact, we know that authoritarian
parenting style usually leads to rebellion. It will just make
your situation far worse. When she approaches her tween and
teen years, so at this age of seven. Avoid that
(09:36):
kind of I just told you to do it, so
do it. Say why you're asking her or telling her
to do it. In other words, explain the rule and
repeat back to her your understanding that she'd rather not
do it, but that while that's hard, she will still
need to do it. You have shown her this way
(09:59):
you have some respect for her feelings. You've told her
none the less that she still needs to respect you
and your rules. Be willing to hear her ideas for
accomplishing the same task a slightly different way. Many parents
here this as manipulation, and it's true that it may
be negotiation. But if you're willing to hear her idea
(10:22):
and consider it and her feelings and it still gets
the task done, this will actually help your relationship in
the future, help her to develop communication skills going forward
in all kinds of relationships. At times, if there is,
in your opinion, a reasonable way to compromise on some things,
(10:45):
show her that this can work as a way to
resolve arguing, because in life this is a way to
resolve arguing, But also remain clear that as her mother,
you do hold the final say and she does need
to respect you, and that you can comfort her in
(11:06):
disappointment if you said to her, hey, this is the
final say at the same time allowing her to be
and feel disappointed. How can I help with Dr Gail
Salts will be back after this short break. Here are
(11:31):
some general tips for arguing with your children, because arguments
with your children continue for the young and for the
older child. But the young child, I say to you,
know your limits. It's fine to answer the why question
a few times, but you know eventually you're going to
blow your stack, so don't wait till you get there.
(11:55):
Pick your number up front. How many wise is really okay?
And frankly the numbers shouldn't probably be more than three,
because beyond that, this is just your child starting to
engage in provocation. After that answer one of several snappy retorts,
you thought ahead, like I just don't have all the
(12:18):
answers or even why are you asking? Then it's time
to stop. You can just smile and engage in something else.
But if you just stop answering at a certain point,
it will peter out, which is a lot better than
when you scream quit it and then feel guilty. Next,
(12:40):
you really want to try to not lose it. Never
stay engaged in argument with your child until you scream.
Certainly never hit or say hurtful things. This is really
destructive arguing and it will be harmful to all of
the is in the house. These tactics never work effectively,
(13:04):
and they leave you with tremendous guilt, which then makes
you try to make it up by spoiling the child,
who will therefore eventually anger you again, and it becomes
a ficious cycle. If you do start to yell, quickly
say you need a quiet moment and stop for a
few minutes, even walk away for a few minutes, regroup
(13:29):
and resume more calmly yet firmly. I am not saying
pretend to be Mary Poppins, because frankly, your child should
see that you can be angry, and it's okay for
your child to see you angry, seeing that humans get
angry and it can still all be okay and they
can still love you and you still love them. What
(13:52):
I am saying is avoid out of control behavior which
can show your child that anger is scary and dangerous. Also,
disengage and limits set pick several methods of disengaging from
the fight it Maybe we need to cool down for now,
(14:14):
let's take five and start again then, or I think
we have discussed this enough for now. If it's about
something they want to do and you don't try, what
is it about, Know that you don't understand. It is
really fine to pick an endpoint and say that's it.
(14:38):
All these things must be backed up by consequences. It
is not enough to threaten. You must follow through with
that time out or that loss of privilege, if that's
where you've arrived. If your child starts it in public,
which they will because they think they can get away
with it, and you feel too embarrassed, set the limit
(15:00):
in front of others, make sure that they get the
consequence when they come home. For older children, your strategies
might change somewhat. Listen to what they are really saying.
If they are arguing about going to a party of
questionable repute, then they may really be trying to tell
(15:22):
you they feel scared about it, but don't know how
to say that because part of them thinks they should
want to go. The same is true of drugs, sex, alcohol, friends, smoking,
and a ton of other things. If you listen carefully
to what they're arguing for, discuss it with them rather
(15:44):
than jumping immediately on it with a shriek of no way.
Then you may get the opportunity to talk with them
about their own fears and help steer them in the
right direction. If you just react, then they will get
their backup, They will argue harder, and they will not
listen to you, and they will go do the very
(16:05):
thing that scares both of you. Also, try to contain
your own anxiety. When we get scared about the topic
of discussion, our temptation is to lash out and stop
them as soon as possible. If you start fighting with them,
(16:26):
all they will have room to think about is how
furious you're making them. So recognize what topics make you anxious,
and when they're coming up, try to wait to respond
until you see what they really are getting at. Try
not to close down the conversation with oh my goodness, no.
(16:48):
Instantly avoid lecturing or interrogating, especially with older kids. Kids
absolutely tune out when you start sharing them or asking
a million questions at once. Let them tell you what
they came to tell you. Give them a chance to
(17:08):
ask your advice. If you give them time, they will
If you force it on them, they will ignore it.
If you barrage them with questions, they will withdraw or
really argue with you in defense, So give them a
chance to explain. It might happen slowly, and it might
(17:30):
happen in multiple conversations, and when an argument is happening,
stick to one topic. Parents in their anger have a
tendency to throw in all the past grievances that they
have with their child in the face of an argument,
really throwing out the baby with the bath water and
(17:52):
recounting every crime they may have committed in their growing up,
and then things become about how bad that child is globally.
If something is going on that is specific that you
are arguing about, stick to that situation, otherwise it becomes
destructive and hurtful. Do you have a problem I can
(18:17):
help with? If so, email me at how can I help?
At Seneca Women dot com. All centers remain anonymous and
listen every Friday too. How can I help with me?
Dr Gail's Salts
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