October 27, 2025 • 18 mins
The state of Florida continues its record setting year of 14 executions and counting, with number 15 scheduled for Tuesday, October 28th. In an unusual move, 65-year-old Norman Grim has chosen not to fight tomorrow’s scheduled lethal injection for the 1998 rape and murder of his next door neighbor. Meantime, in Tennessee, a lawsuit challenging the state’s lethal injection method, claims the August 5th execution of Byron Black was botched, his autopsy showing sustained cardiac activity 2 minutes after he was pronounced dead, with his final words “It’s hurting so bad."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It is Monday, October twenty seventh, and tomorrow night, Florida
is going to execute a man and it will be
their fifteenth execution of the year. But this man is
the first one to not even fight his execution date.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
(00:23):
And he is going to Robes die by lethal injection.
And that is where we got some more disturbing news
about lethal injection out of Tennessee. All the stuff ties together,
but there's a case in Tennessee of an inmate who
died this year and what they call a botched execution
by lethal injection in Robes this idea that possibly just
(00:43):
how alive could he possibly have been after he was
declared dead.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, there has been four years now so much focus
and controversy surrounding lethal injection house states. Do it the
chemicals or the drugs they use, the order in which
they use them, And the question remains. It feels like
still we're asking is it humane? Is it cruel and unusual?
(01:08):
The way we're killing inmates on death row?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
How can we ever know?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We right, we go buy what doctors tell us, We
go buy research and a lot of people go by reactions,
and that's the reaction to the person being killed, the
reactions to the body. And in this case we're going
to discuss at least in this episode, Robes, the one
out of Tennessee, we actually heard from the inmate say
out loud that he was in pain, so we will
(01:37):
get into that. But in Florida, I mean, you can't
make this stuff up. But the inmate there the execution
this week. His last name is grim.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, Norman Merle Grimm, sixty five years old, again scheduled
to die by lethal injection. It would be the fifteenth
execution this year for Florida, which is a they call
it a modern record at least the death penalty has
been reinstated.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
In nineteen seventy six since it came back, and then
they had eight was there high before this, So they're
up to fifteen they will be this week, and I
think two more on the books for this year, so
they will get up to seventeen if all goes as.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Schedules, So they will more than double their previous record
of executions in one year.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, far ahead of what we're used to seeing. In Texas.
Texas has five this year. I believe executions, but Florida
is that they just scheduled them all this year when
drugs became available, and they just start putting them back
on the books and they're seeing them through.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And this will be the forty first execution this year
in this country. Grim will be or would be if
it does in fact happen tomorrow, and it looks like
by all accounts it will because, as you pointed out,
he is not appealing this conviction. He's not proclaiming his innocence.
He just said, let's do this basically.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I mean it's not what you're used to seeing.
I mean they're trying everything at this late hour, anything
that sticks. And he just saved a whole lot of
time and energy and money on a lot of people's
parts by just saying, don't even give it an attempt. Now,
Grim's And again we mentioned we've done several of these
stories and sometimes details are in question and people question
(03:23):
some of the witnesses and some of the evidence. This
is not one of these cases. And this was a
really horrific crime that he was convicted.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yes, it was described as brutal and merciless. I mean
most murders are, but this one is actually puzzling too.
And this is a guy who had a very long
violent criminal history, but he murdered his next door neighbor
who was an attorney, and it's a bizarre setup.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'm sure you read all the details, babe, that she had.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Called police earlier in the morning because someone had broken
her window, and he was over there with her with
police looking at this broken window. And the police officer
who came to the scene around five o'clock in the
morning heard him invite her over to his home for
coffee afterwards, and then she goes missing.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I didn't see how long was she missing.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Not very long at all.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So she basically they had she had an intern at
her law office drop off something and her front door
was open, he noted, and the car was in there,
and he called out her name. She didn't answer. No
one thought anything of it. A few hours later, when
she didn't show up for work, they went by again
and again her car was there, her keys were there,
(04:35):
and she wasn't and so they called police and police
went to question grim immediately, who said he didn't know
what was going on. But then he went out and
police followed him because he said he had to go
pick up his dogs. But they believe now what he
was doing. Her body was in his trunk at that point,
and he was able to lose the police officer like
(04:57):
he knew he was being followed.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's bizarre and dum.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
The body over a bridge, which was then fished out
of this body of water within hours by a fisherman.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And the condition of the body, it's pretty horrific stuff.
They describe here. Had at least eleven stab wounds, and
seven of those penetrated this lady's heart. And she also
had wounds that were consistent with being struck repeatedly with
a hammer. So this was some really really nasty stuff.
(05:32):
But he was convicted of this crime and he had
a chance. Earlier this month, he was asked the question
do you want to appeal? He said no, because if
he had done so, it immediately triggers all of this
court action that sometimes can slow things down, and it
makes its way up and then you have to hear
from the Supreme Court or where they take that whole thing.
He skipped all that stuff and just said.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Nope, Well, I mean look, and he also not only
was he convicted with a first degree murder and it
was a unanimous decision to send him to death row.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But he also raped her sexual battery as well.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But when you start to look at Norman Grimm's history,
it's appalling that he was even out just all of
these other instants where he was accused of and convicted
of accosting a fourteen year old girl, dragging her to
a wooded area. She was managed to get free. He
also like went after a woman who was living next door.
(06:25):
She fought him off and he was But anyway, he
had repeatedly gone after women violently and they just happened
to get away from him. But he was convicted of
crimes and went to prison, but was just released and
sadly it ended up in murder.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And so his I guess his his life of crime,
and his I guess his story is going to end,
and that book is going to be closed. We will
see with lethal injection how this goes.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
There have been.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Varying reports of how goes with this with lethal injection
and how this is going to go. But lethal injection
is being challenged in the state of Tennessee right now
after there was what they are calling a botched a
botched execution of Byron Black. Now, once you started listening
(07:18):
to some of these details, it's pretty remarkable. But Byron
Black was sixty nine years old with his execution was
August fifth, and we call it an execution, but robes
at the time his attorney. His attorney flat out said
he was tortured.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So his electro cardiogram showed that there was sustained cardiac
activity two minutes after he was pronounced dead, and the
moment he was pronounced dead, according to his attorney, they
the folks working behind the scenes, shut the curtain so
they could no longer see if he was still in pain,
if he was still suffering, if he had still any
(07:54):
visible signs of life at that point. So they don't
really know what happened once they shut the curtains pronounce
him dead. But we do know now he wasn't dead
when they pronounced him dead.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
There was a lot.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I tried to look this up to your point best
I could, Like, what does the body do?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Right? Can you be pronounced dead and.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Have little flurries of electronic electric activity through the body.
I don't know if they're a flutter or how sustained.
Did they say this was? But this was entered as
part of evidence as to why lethal injection should not
be allowed and why it's cruel and unusual. Now, his
crime at least will get this part out of the way.
(08:36):
It's pretty horrific. So there's no question about this man's
guilt or innocence, and that is not the question. The
question is was it humane the way he was executed?
But he killed his girlfriend and her two daughters with
the ages of nine and six. That's tough. So that
is what he was convicted of. Now, over the years,
(08:58):
now here he is. He's a sixty nine your old
man and apparently in terrible physical condition.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He had end stage kidney failure. He had congestive heart failure.
So he actually had a defibrillator I can never say
that right, defibrillator implanted in his chest. And he suffered
from dementia, he was immobile, and his IQ was.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
They say, extremely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Low, an intellectual disability. So he had all of these issues,
all of these ailments. And look, he did the crime.
You do the time, and the time for him is punishment,
and it's by execution. But a lot of people are
arguing this was cruel and unusual. Now, you mentioned rome
the defibrillator, and that is a big part of the
(09:50):
cruel and unusual. Now, before his execution, his attorneys had
been warning everybody that, hey, he has this heart implant
that is supposed to monitor his heart in any time
there's irregularity. Was a dude, gives it a little shock,
shocks you back, It wakes you back up and keeps
the heart in rhythm. Hey, you're trying to kill him.
This heart implant might try to keep trying to bring
(10:13):
him back to life. It might try to keep shocking
his heart, which could be extremely painful for him. So
they went to court and asked for it to be
turned off. One judge said, yep, has to be cut
off the state in an appeals and another court said, robes, yes,
(10:34):
turn it off, but it's not a big deal that
you do it, essentially saying we're not going to require
that you do it, but knock yourself out if you
can make it work. That was the instruction was, no,
we're not requiring it, but if you can make it
work with the schedule. So a hospital, according to the prosecutor,
(10:55):
has agreed to come and turn off the defibrillator or
right before the execution within romes. Days ahead of time.
That hospital puts out that statement that you see in
front of you.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Wow, So here's what the hospital said. Earlier reports of
Nashville General Hospital's involvement are inaccurate. The correctional healthcare provider
contract contracted by the Tennessee Department of Correction did not
contact appropriate Nashville General Hospital leadership with its request to
deactivate the implanted defibrillator. Any assertion in the hospital would
(11:29):
participate in the procedure was premature.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And with that, there was no one to turn off
the defibrillator. So this man with all those issues we
talked about, with the intellectual disability, with the physical ailments,
with the heart condition, and yes, with this thing, it
was not turned off, the suggestion being that maybe it
could shock him back to life repeatedly. So the execution
(11:55):
comes in romes. By many accounts of witnesses, this was awful,
including the words I look, I've seen final words, and
what are your last words?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yes, I can't remember reports of one in which during
the execution the inmate was talking or set was trying
to communicate something wild.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Dying Well, the thought would be that if the drugs
were put in his system in the correct order, in
the correct way, in the correct amount, you would be incapacitated.
You would be asleep, you wouldn't be able to speak.
And that's why I would presume we don't hear people
saying anything intelligible when they're in the process of dying,
(12:42):
because they've been the first drug should have gone in
and paralyzed their body, or at least put them to
sleep so that they don't feel pain and they can't communicate.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You hit it exactly, and they say, mister Black should
have been unconscious in a matter of seconds. Instead he
was still conscious five minutes into his execution. And to
your point, Robes, you would think someone wouldn't be able
to come up with something to say to be understood
(13:12):
at that point. But stay with us, folks. We will
tell you what this man's not just his last words were,
but his final plea was as he was dying.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Stay here, all.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right, folks, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We continue now with Byron Black, who was executed earlier
this year, and Norman Grimm, said to be executed tomorrow
by the state of Florida. Grim going to receive the
same fate death by lethal injection that Byron Black did.
Byron Black's execution called botched by many, his attorney calling
(13:55):
him tortured as he went through the process. And in
Tennessee they are challenging now some of the processes and
the protocols for going through lethal injection, calling them cruel
and unusual, including in Byron Black's case.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Robes was just revealed.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
As we said, the EKG showed that he was still
his heart showed sustained cardiac activity after two minutes. But
during that execution of Byron Black, he spoke and he
let people know that's part of it, like how much pain?
And then some judges have ruled in the path like you,
there's going to be a level of discomfort. Nobody's going
(14:31):
to be one hundred percent comfortable while they're being killed.
But still, what level of pain is cruel and unusual?
And this was this was a I don't know how
to describe necessarily what went down here.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Well, especially when you have experts in this area say
that if the drug is used correctly and injected correctly,
that you should lose consciousness within twenty seconds is what
they have said. And so yes, five minutes, it's into it.
He's moaning, he's saying, oh, it's hurting so bad. Like
(15:06):
he was actually able to say those words out loud
so that folks who were witnessing the execution could hear
him say it and document it.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And then he was moaning in pain for five minutes.
They said, that's not how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't believe. So they are challenging this in Tennessee.
But again, rogues, we're going through now another execution. Again,
there are we talk about this. We go back and forth,
and we always say if there's a there's no question,
if there's any question about guilt innocence, you should we
should take a beat. There isn't a question about guilt
(15:45):
or innocence in the Florida case. But now there's there
are big questions about the methods.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Correct using because some of the Death Penalty.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Information Center, we've talked about how we've used a lot
of their information, but they talked about how specifically in
reference to what happened to mister Black and his execution,
they say that of the two hundred autopsies of death
row prisoners that's been done over the last several years,
(16:15):
that study found that eighty four percent of those death
row inmates had pulmonary edemas, which is basically when your
lungs fill with fluid and it creates a feeling of
suffocation or drowning, and experts say that it actually they
liken it to waterboarding, and so they say there's extreme pain.
(16:37):
And so this is what's been happening to a lot
of these inmates with lethal injection to the point where
we have seen and obviously these studies have been out
and headlines have been out there, we have seen prisoners
in some states choose other methods of execution that seem horrific,
like either nitrogen gas or firing squad.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Some are pretty quickly if they say, really that if
somebody's aim is good, that that's a quick stopping of
the heart.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So people, I mean, obviously they're looking for the quickest
and least painful way to die, and most inmates, it seems,
are concerned about this lethal injection and it's been the
thing is, it's been an issue for years now, and.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So the next thing is going to be an issue
is nitrogen gas, which is being used more and more
in particularly what Alabama, Alabama, I think is very prone
to use that, but just something else we're keeping an
eye on this week. I mean, after we get through
this month, there are another fighting five or six on
the books in November and getting us through the end
(17:39):
of the year. Just it's fascinating to see at the
pace that we're on this year robes and where does
it lead next year as well. But folks, for now,
just wanted to hop on, give you that update. We'll
continue to hop on as we see things that are
of interest to us, that we think is our interest
to you that you should keep an eye on as well.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For now, I'm TJ. Holmes along with Amy Black, doctor
Auson
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It is Monday, October twenty seventh, and tomorrow night, Florida
is going to execute a man and it will be
their fifteenth execution of the year. But this man is
the first one to not even fight his execution date.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
(00:23):
And he is going to Robes die by lethal injection.
And that is where we got some more disturbing news
about lethal injection out of Tennessee. All the stuff ties together,
but there's a case in Tennessee of an inmate who
died this year and what they call a botched execution
by lethal injection in Robes this idea that possibly just
(00:43):
how alive could he possibly have been after he was
declared dead.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, there has been four years now so much focus
and controversy surrounding lethal injection house states. Do it the
chemicals or the drugs they use, the order in which
they use them, And the question remains. It feels like
still we're asking is it humane? Is it cruel and unusual?
(01:08):
The way we're killing inmates on death row?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
How can we ever know?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We right, we go buy what doctors tell us, We
go buy research and a lot of people go by reactions,
and that's the reaction to the person being killed, the
reactions to the body. And in this case we're going
to discuss at least in this episode, Robes, the one
out of Tennessee, we actually heard from the inmate say
out loud that he was in pain, so we will
(01:37):
get into that. But in Florida, I mean, you can't
make this stuff up. But the inmate there the execution
this week. His last name is grim.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, Norman Merle Grimm, sixty five years old, again scheduled
to die by lethal injection. It would be the fifteenth
execution this year for Florida, which is a they call
it a modern record at least the death penalty has
been reinstated.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
In nineteen seventy six since it came back, and then
they had eight was there high before this, So they're
up to fifteen they will be this week, and I
think two more on the books for this year, so
they will get up to seventeen if all goes as.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Schedules, So they will more than double their previous record
of executions in one year.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, far ahead of what we're used to seeing. In Texas.
Texas has five this year. I believe executions, but Florida
is that they just scheduled them all this year when
drugs became available, and they just start putting them back
on the books and they're seeing them through.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And this will be the forty first execution this year
in this country. Grim will be or would be if
it does in fact happen tomorrow, and it looks like
by all accounts it will because, as you pointed out,
he is not appealing this conviction. He's not proclaiming his innocence.
He just said, let's do this basically.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I mean it's not what you're used to seeing.
I mean they're trying everything at this late hour, anything
that sticks. And he just saved a whole lot of
time and energy and money on a lot of people's
parts by just saying, don't even give it an attempt. Now,
Grim's And again we mentioned we've done several of these
stories and sometimes details are in question and people question
(03:23):
some of the witnesses and some of the evidence. This
is not one of these cases. And this was a
really horrific crime that he was convicted.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yes, it was described as brutal and merciless. I mean
most murders are, but this one is actually puzzling too.
And this is a guy who had a very long
violent criminal history, but he murdered his next door neighbor
who was an attorney, and it's a bizarre setup.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'm sure you read all the details, babe, that she had.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Called police earlier in the morning because someone had broken
her window, and he was over there with her with
police looking at this broken window. And the police officer
who came to the scene around five o'clock in the
morning heard him invite her over to his home for
coffee afterwards, and then she goes missing.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I didn't see how long was she missing.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Not very long at all.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So she basically they had she had an intern at
her law office drop off something and her front door
was open, he noted, and the car was in there,
and he called out her name. She didn't answer. No
one thought anything of it. A few hours later, when
she didn't show up for work, they went by again
and again her car was there, her keys were there,
(04:35):
and she wasn't and so they called police and police
went to question grim immediately, who said he didn't know
what was going on. But then he went out and
police followed him because he said he had to go
pick up his dogs. But they believe now what he
was doing. Her body was in his trunk at that point,
and he was able to lose the police officer like
(04:57):
he knew he was being followed.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's bizarre and dum.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
The body over a bridge, which was then fished out
of this body of water within hours by a fisherman.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And the condition of the body, it's pretty horrific stuff.
They describe here. Had at least eleven stab wounds, and
seven of those penetrated this lady's heart. And she also
had wounds that were consistent with being struck repeatedly with
a hammer. So this was some really really nasty stuff.
(05:32):
But he was convicted of this crime and he had
a chance. Earlier this month, he was asked the question
do you want to appeal? He said no, because if
he had done so, it immediately triggers all of this
court action that sometimes can slow things down, and it
makes its way up and then you have to hear
from the Supreme Court or where they take that whole thing.
He skipped all that stuff and just said.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Nope, Well, I mean look, and he also not only
was he convicted with a first degree murder and it
was a unanimous decision to send him to death row.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But he also raped her sexual battery as well.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But when you start to look at Norman Grimm's history,
it's appalling that he was even out just all of
these other instants where he was accused of and convicted
of accosting a fourteen year old girl, dragging her to
a wooded area. She was managed to get free. He
also like went after a woman who was living next door.
(06:25):
She fought him off and he was But anyway, he
had repeatedly gone after women violently and they just happened
to get away from him. But he was convicted of
crimes and went to prison, but was just released and
sadly it ended up in murder.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And so his I guess his his life of crime,
and his I guess his story is going to end,
and that book is going to be closed. We will
see with lethal injection how this goes.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
There have been.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Varying reports of how goes with this with lethal injection
and how this is going to go. But lethal injection
is being challenged in the state of Tennessee right now
after there was what they are calling a botched a
botched execution of Byron Black. Now, once you started listening
(07:18):
to some of these details, it's pretty remarkable. But Byron
Black was sixty nine years old with his execution was
August fifth, and we call it an execution, but robes
at the time his attorney. His attorney flat out said
he was tortured.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So his electro cardiogram showed that there was sustained cardiac
activity two minutes after he was pronounced dead, and the
moment he was pronounced dead, according to his attorney, they
the folks working behind the scenes, shut the curtain so
they could no longer see if he was still in pain,
if he was still suffering, if he had still any
(07:54):
visible signs of life at that point. So they don't
really know what happened once they shut the curtains pronounce
him dead. But we do know now he wasn't dead
when they pronounced him dead.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
There was a lot.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I tried to look this up to your point best
I could, Like, what does the body do?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Right? Can you be pronounced dead and.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Have little flurries of electronic electric activity through the body.
I don't know if they're a flutter or how sustained.
Did they say this was? But this was entered as
part of evidence as to why lethal injection should not
be allowed and why it's cruel and unusual. Now, his
crime at least will get this part out of the way.
(08:36):
It's pretty horrific. So there's no question about this man's
guilt or innocence, and that is not the question. The
question is was it humane the way he was executed?
But he killed his girlfriend and her two daughters with
the ages of nine and six. That's tough. So that
is what he was convicted of. Now, over the years,
(08:58):
now here he is. He's a sixty nine your old
man and apparently in terrible physical condition.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He had end stage kidney failure. He had congestive heart failure.
So he actually had a defibrillator I can never say
that right, defibrillator implanted in his chest. And he suffered
from dementia, he was immobile, and his IQ was.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
They say, extremely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Low, an intellectual disability. So he had all of these issues,
all of these ailments. And look, he did the crime.
You do the time, and the time for him is punishment,
and it's by execution. But a lot of people are
arguing this was cruel and unusual. Now, you mentioned rome
the defibrillator, and that is a big part of the
(09:50):
cruel and unusual. Now, before his execution, his attorneys had
been warning everybody that, hey, he has this heart implant
that is supposed to monitor his heart in any time
there's irregularity. Was a dude, gives it a little shock,
shocks you back, It wakes you back up and keeps
the heart in rhythm. Hey, you're trying to kill him.
This heart implant might try to keep trying to bring
(10:13):
him back to life. It might try to keep shocking
his heart, which could be extremely painful for him. So
they went to court and asked for it to be
turned off. One judge said, yep, has to be cut
off the state in an appeals and another court said, robes, yes,
(10:34):
turn it off, but it's not a big deal that
you do it, essentially saying we're not going to require
that you do it, but knock yourself out if you
can make it work. That was the instruction was, no,
we're not requiring it, but if you can make it
work with the schedule. So a hospital, according to the prosecutor,
(10:55):
has agreed to come and turn off the defibrillator or
right before the execution within romes. Days ahead of time.
That hospital puts out that statement that you see in
front of you.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Wow, So here's what the hospital said. Earlier reports of
Nashville General Hospital's involvement are inaccurate. The correctional healthcare provider
contract contracted by the Tennessee Department of Correction did not
contact appropriate Nashville General Hospital leadership with its request to
deactivate the implanted defibrillator. Any assertion in the hospital would
(11:29):
participate in the procedure was premature.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And with that, there was no one to turn off
the defibrillator. So this man with all those issues we
talked about, with the intellectual disability, with the physical ailments,
with the heart condition, and yes, with this thing, it
was not turned off, the suggestion being that maybe it
could shock him back to life repeatedly. So the execution
(11:55):
comes in romes. By many accounts of witnesses, this was awful,
including the words I look, I've seen final words, and
what are your last words?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yes, I can't remember reports of one in which during
the execution the inmate was talking or set was trying
to communicate something wild.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Dying Well, the thought would be that if the drugs
were put in his system in the correct order, in
the correct way, in the correct amount, you would be incapacitated.
You would be asleep, you wouldn't be able to speak.
And that's why I would presume we don't hear people
saying anything intelligible when they're in the process of dying,
(12:42):
because they've been the first drug should have gone in
and paralyzed their body, or at least put them to
sleep so that they don't feel pain and they can't communicate.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You hit it exactly, and they say, mister Black should
have been unconscious in a matter of seconds. Instead he
was still conscious five minutes into his execution. And to
your point, Robes, you would think someone wouldn't be able
to come up with something to say to be understood
(13:12):
at that point. But stay with us, folks. We will
tell you what this man's not just his last words were,
but his final plea was as he was dying.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Stay here, all.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right, folks, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We continue now with Byron Black, who was executed earlier
this year, and Norman Grimm, said to be executed tomorrow
by the state of Florida. Grim going to receive the
same fate death by lethal injection that Byron Black did.
Byron Black's execution called botched by many, his attorney calling
(13:55):
him tortured as he went through the process. And in
Tennessee they are challenging now some of the processes and
the protocols for going through lethal injection, calling them cruel
and unusual, including in Byron Black's case.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Robes was just revealed.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
As we said, the EKG showed that he was still
his heart showed sustained cardiac activity after two minutes. But
during that execution of Byron Black, he spoke and he
let people know that's part of it, like how much pain?
And then some judges have ruled in the path like you,
there's going to be a level of discomfort. Nobody's going
(14:31):
to be one hundred percent comfortable while they're being killed.
But still, what level of pain is cruel and unusual?
And this was this was a I don't know how
to describe necessarily what went down here.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Well, especially when you have experts in this area say
that if the drug is used correctly and injected correctly,
that you should lose consciousness within twenty seconds is what
they have said. And so yes, five minutes, it's into it.
He's moaning, he's saying, oh, it's hurting so bad. Like
(15:06):
he was actually able to say those words out loud
so that folks who were witnessing the execution could hear
him say it and document it.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And then he was moaning in pain for five minutes.
They said, that's not how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't believe. So they are challenging this in Tennessee.
But again, rogues, we're going through now another execution. Again,
there are we talk about this. We go back and forth,
and we always say if there's a there's no question,
if there's any question about guilt innocence, you should we
should take a beat. There isn't a question about guilt
(15:45):
or innocence in the Florida case. But now there's there
are big questions about the methods.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Correct using because some of the Death Penalty.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Information Center, we've talked about how we've used a lot
of their information, but they talked about how specifically in
reference to what happened to mister Black and his execution,
they say that of the two hundred autopsies of death
row prisoners that's been done over the last several years,
(16:15):
that study found that eighty four percent of those death
row inmates had pulmonary edemas, which is basically when your
lungs fill with fluid and it creates a feeling of
suffocation or drowning, and experts say that it actually they
liken it to waterboarding, and so they say there's extreme pain.
(16:37):
And so this is what's been happening to a lot
of these inmates with lethal injection to the point where
we have seen and obviously these studies have been out
and headlines have been out there, we have seen prisoners
in some states choose other methods of execution that seem horrific,
like either nitrogen gas or firing squad.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Some are pretty quickly if they say, really that if
somebody's aim is good, that that's a quick stopping of
the heart.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So people, I mean, obviously they're looking for the quickest
and least painful way to die, and most inmates, it seems,
are concerned about this lethal injection and it's been the
thing is, it's been an issue for years now, and.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So the next thing is going to be an issue
is nitrogen gas, which is being used more and more
in particularly what Alabama, Alabama, I think is very prone
to use that, but just something else we're keeping an
eye on this week. I mean, after we get through
this month, there are another fighting five or six on
the books in November and getting us through the end
(17:39):
of the year. Just it's fascinating to see at the
pace that we're on this year robes and where does
it lead next year as well. But folks, for now,
just wanted to hop on, give you that update. We'll
continue to hop on as we see things that are
of interest to us, that we think is our interest
to you that you should keep an eye on as well.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For now, I'm TJ. Holmes along with Amy Black, doctor
Auson
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