October 23, 2025 • 25 mins
In a jaw-dropping, head-scratching, headline making press conference, the FBI and multiple law enforcement agencies announced a major shakedown of the mob and the NBA. Authorities revealed more than 30 arrests including current NBA coach and Hall of Famer Chauncey Billups and a former and current NBA player, along with crime families with familiar names like Gambino and Bonanno. It is all a part of two separate investigations involving illegal gambling with details that make Oceans 11 movies seem tame.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, October twenty third, and
we just spent forty five minutes repeatedly screaming at the
TV say what now, because we just watched a press
conference in which they announced historic indictments involving the mob money,
(00:23):
illegal gambling, current and former NBA players, and one current
head coach in the NBA. And with that, folks, welcome
to this episode of Amy and TJ. We got a
breaking news alert that something was coming. It was before
the press conference. Then the press conference started, and we said,
holy hell, is this for real?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, full disclosure here. You read the initial headline about
NBA players and gambling, and I kind of glazed over
and I just was wow, I guess that's a story.
Didn't seem like anything that I would be interested in
until the press conference started, and then it was as
if I was watching a Hollywood movie, which I know
(01:04):
everyone is saying, but truly, there's no other way to
describe the information that came out, the people who were involved,
and the amount of law enforcement intra agencies all standing
collectively together to announce this truly shocking, historic I don't
want to say arrest arrests, what thirty plus thirty four
(01:27):
was the last count I heard, but they said and
counting potentially.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, folks, So we are talking about them now breaking
up a year's long scheme in which gambling is involved
and essentially bilking players out of what they say are
millions and millions of dollars. So what we're talking about here, yes,
Cash Bettel, You had the New York Police Department commissioner
(01:51):
as a part of this. US attorneys involved. There were
so many agencies standing up there to make the announcement
of two cases in which wirefraud, money laundering, extortion, robbery,
illegal gambling among some of the charges. They say this
happened in nine states in the early morning hours with
the coordination of all of these hundreds of agents, and
(02:12):
they went and arrested thirty plus defendants, and among them
an NBA Hall of Famer and current NBA coach Chauncey Billups,
current coach of the Portland Trailblazers, former players involved, and
one current member of the Miami Heat and Ropes. These
look this is all kind of loosely connected, but also
not really. But they announced essentially two major cases today,
(02:37):
two major operations, two different indictments, and.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yet they were. It was interesting how connected they were.
But yes, two separate cases. One was called Operation Nothing
but Bet. How do you like that playing off of
nothing but Net?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You like it? Fine?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's for FBI agents. I guess that's a good one.
But that was the operation on illegal betting on NBA
games using insider information. Notably, I'm still learning some of
the lingo here, but this is actually called prop betting.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yes, you are familiar with it from Super Bowl, probably
the only time you start thinking about prop bets. What
we're talking about is not just betting on who wins
or who loses the game, but all the side bets. Right,
how long is the national anthem? That's a prop bet
at the Super Bowl? How many yards will this player,
the quarterback put up?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Or how many points will a player score?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So people love betting prop bets because you essentially say,
all right, the prop is twenty, he's going to score twenty.
I'll take the under or I'll take the over. So yeah,
it's a fun, kind of an easy way to do
your gambling without necessarily being hardcore. And this is prime
for cheating because if you can get somebody a player
to you know fake and injury should do a little
(03:54):
something funny.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You should mention that because that is the allegation and
the charge against current Miami Heat guard Terry Rosier. He
was arrested this morning in Orlando, I believe where he
had been playing.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Correct, Well, he had a game last night. He dressed
but did not play. Coach's decision. They say, so who
knows that they saw something like this coming. Do you
like the other name of the other operation better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The other operation is called Operation Royal Flush. And this
was about an underground rigged I mean when you hear
about how they rigged this game, or how authorities say
they rigged this game, it is jaw dropping. But apparently
there were members of the mob rigging illegal poker games,
and so they were operated by LaCOSA Nostra our things
(04:40):
Sicilian mafia here in America. Four of the five families
are implicated in this, but notably so is Hall of
Famer as you mentioned, and current coach called mister big
Shot Chauncey Phillips.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Has a long and storied history, but he is a
Hall of Famer. Just went to the Hall of Fame
last year. Actually, the folks arrested here you mentioned the
crime families. I think it came maybe a surprise to
some people that these folks are still up and running, right.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I thought these were families of legend past and not
currently operating and flourishing, so to speak. It seems like
something that you again just watching a movie or reading
a crime novel, but not something that's currently going on.
But yeah, when they start naming family names like Gambino, Lukesi,
genovesei Banano, all of those names, those family names, those
(05:33):
Italian names connected to the mafia are all should be
pretty familiar to most people.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Gambino was probably the most famous out there, given I mean,
John Gotty was the head of that family for a
while with just I mean, that's a classic, historic, storied family.
And to think that they are still in ball. So yes,
folks were talking about those mob families are alleged to
have been in bed with some current and former NBA
(05:59):
players in the current coach to build folks out of
possibly millions of dollars. So all of this happened in
the early morning hours these arrests. They were able to
keep this quiet, which is fairly impressive given that they
have hundreds of agents and agencies, several agencies involved. So
Chelncey Billups, you didn't know the name initially, I don't think.
I don't know if you would know the face when
(06:19):
you first saw it. But we can't really overstate how
big of a deal and big of a career he
has had in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You'd be able to obviously give that perspective that I
could not. But I know that he's the current coach
of the Portland Trailblazers. But when I started reading about
who this guy was, I mean, yes, he was called
mister big shot for a reason.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, seventeen years. You hear anybody played seventeen years in
the NBA. They obviously were pretty good. But he won
a championship with the Pistons in two thousand and four.
He stopped that team, stopped what they thought was going
to be a three peat by Kobe and Shaq. Wow.
With the Lakers, yes, so they win this. He was
the MVP of the Finals. Let you know, on the
(07:01):
biggest stage, he shows up. He was an NBA All Star,
five time NBA All Star. His jersey is retired in Detroit,
and he is a Hall of Famer. Just went into
the Hall of Fame last year, and he yes is
the current coach of the Portland Trail Blazers, who started
their seat the NBA season just kicked off. Had two
(07:21):
glorious nights of games.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I saw a picture from him last night. Correct they
lost to the Minnesota I'm so bad Vikings. I'm terrible
with No, that's wrong Timberwolves. I knew this sport.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Is not my Jim. I knew I was going to
get a roam. So that's fine sport, but it's the
same city. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But yes, when you start to see he was on
the court last night seemingly unsuspecting of what was going
to The loss was the least thing he should be
worried about this morning when he woke up, Yes, to
find himself under arrest. He along with Terry Rogier and
Damon Jones, we have to talk about him to all
(08:07):
have hearings this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So yes, we are going to hear something, probably not
necessarily much, but going to be making an appearance. Not
Terry Rogier. If you don't know who this kid is
either as a kid, but he's been in the league
ten plus years now. He was drafted sixteen overall by Boston.
That's lets you know how good of a player he
was sixteen overall is a big deal. He played at
Louisville in his college days. He ended up going from
(08:32):
Boston was he was a role player to Charlotte where
he flourished, started averaging about twenty points a game, and
then he went to Miami and he's been there since
twenty twenty three. This is a guy who is on
the last year of a four year, ninety six million
dollar contracts. So a lot of people will scratch their heads.
Why the hell is he involved in trying to make
(08:52):
a few bucks in a legal gameplay.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's insane. I mean, he makes twenty plus million dollars
a year. Someone was pointing out because according to the FBI,
there was a particular date, I believe in March of
twenty twenty three, where he is accused of feigning an
injury to get out of a game early to then
skew the bets on him. Those prop bets. We were
just talking about how many points he would score in
(09:14):
the game. But they said the money that was made
was around two hundred thousand dollars on that, which is
about and he had to split it with the folks
who made the money. But apparently this is small change.
This is like pennies to you and me. So it
makes no sense why he would put his reputation, his freedom,
and certainly his NBA career on the line for something
(09:37):
as small as that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, it doesn't sound very bright, but these are just allegations.
At this point we have heard from his attorney. We'll
read that here at the end. The other name of
note again might not be one you know, but you
might recognize the face because he was on TV a
whole lot, because he was next to Lebron James a
whole lot, like Damon Jones. He did have a ten
plus year career in the league, but he played notably
with Lebron in some of Lebron's early days there in Cleveland,
(10:03):
and he was an assistant coach in twenty sixteen when
Cleveland won that championship over the Warriors, was in that
arena and covered that team on awful lot.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And he's being accused of being a part of this
mafia scandal Royal Flush Chauncey Phillips, the Royal Flush investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
All right, So let's explain what this alleged involvement by
Billups and jones Is. And this is where things robes
get absolutely wacky. First of all, yes, these were rigged
poker games. Allegedly they were playing a part of Now
these big name guys, somebody like Chauncey Billups, according to authorities,
were referred to as face cards. They were the celebrities
(10:43):
who were sitting at the table, and they were kind
of there to distract the fish. The fish is the
target that they are trying to essentially rob, So everybody
at the table is in on it, the dealers in
on it, everybody except the fish. But that wasn't just all.
They use some technology that I don't even think they
(11:04):
did an Oceans eleven some of this.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Stuff, right, I mean, it sounded like something out of
an Ocean's eleven movie, where apparently they had custom shuffling
machines that could read the order of the cards. They
had hidden cameras built into tables and chandeliers that they
could see information that you're not supposed to see and
then pass them along to the player's poker chip trays
(11:25):
that could secretly read cards, special contact lenses that could
read cards that I've got that freaked me out. X
Ray table that could read the cards when they were
faced down.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Again, what this is a real operation. They really invested
in this thing. Also, they had shuffling machines. They said,
these were just regular commercial you can get them on
the market off the shelf, is how we refer to it.
Shuffling machines that could read the cards. But they would
then predict who at the table would have the best hand.
They could predict this. So this is what happens with
(12:01):
all that information. It's relayed back to what they call
the quarterback, who was not on site. Then the quarterback
would take that info and relay it back to the
people at the table who worked in coordination to cheat
the fish.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And the fish were basically high rollers, the people who
had the money, who wanted to play, and what they
thought was a fair illegal game because the game itself
was conducted illegally, but they thought that these were fair games.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Hey, if you can't trust the criminal, what are you
gonna do?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Did they know that the mafia was involved in setting
up any of these games? I'm curious. I'm even thinking
from like the NBA coach and former coach, former player's
point of view, how scary or is it exciting to
know that you're now in bed with, so to speak,
with the mafia like that is just some crazy, scary
(13:00):
stuff that a successful person you wouldn't think would want
to be involved with.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, and they have not watched all of those mob documentaries.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It doesn't end well.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
You never want to be in business with the mom
You just.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Don't, especially if you don't have to be. I understand
that financially, somehow you're I don't know, backed into a corner.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
This was not them, Yeah, this was not that case
at all. Now you were mentioning this incident as well,
having to do with Terry Rogier. Again, terror Rogier is
part of it was announced today, but a different indictment
from Chauncey Phillips. He's alleged to have been a part
of this scheme operation nothing but bet that involved player performances.
Now he would use, according to authorities, inside information he
(13:44):
might have and passed that along and then folks would
alter their prop bets. Now robes this through me. They
announced that involved players from teams from Charlotte, Portland, the Lakers,
and Toronto. Now didn't say that necessarily all these plays
were in on it, but more so that some other
(14:05):
folks might have had inside information that they passed along
involving those players. So I want to be clear. They
named those teams but didn't say there are players on
all those teams who were involved.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Could have just been someone adjacent to the team or
someone who was who had that was privy to that
type of information that could be passed along then to
folks placing bets.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But please tell this is the story you got to hear,
and I just wanted to do it in their roads
line by line for how the New York Police of
Army Commissioner explained Terry Rogier's involvement.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
All right, So this is from the NYPD commissioner. One
example occurred on March twenty third, twenty twenty three, in Charlotte.
Terry Rogier, an NBA player now with the Miami Heat
but at the time playing for the Charlotte Hornets, allegedly
let others close to him know that he planned to
leave the game early with a supposed injury. Using that information,
(14:55):
members of the group placed more than two hundred thousand
dollars in wagers on his under statistics. Rogier exited the
game after just nine minutes, and those bets paid out,
generating tens of thousands of dollars in profits. The proceeds
were later delivered to his home, where the group counted
(15:16):
their cash. As the NBA season tips off, his career
is already benched. Not for injury, but for integrity.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's going to be the biggest problem for the NBA.
If you, integrity of the game is everything. If there
is any suggestion that players on the field are altering
their performance for the sake of gambling, you are going
to have the biggest scandal ever.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
See it's so funny because I know that this. You
love the NBA, You love the game, and that was
my number one question to you. What do you think
this does to the integrity of the game. This is
they just opened their season. There's so much excitement and
fanfare and victoriously.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I mean, it was a great launch to the season.
A boy, you know Chuck, he's over on ESPN nine.
That was a big opening. The first game was a
double overtime thriller. This was a great start to the season.
And now this is the season. This will dog them
the entire season because now you got to look out
there every time somebody doesn't play every time somebody is
(16:24):
off a little bit, everybody's going to be under investigation
by the public. I mean correct, this is the scary. Wait,
you have a player who cheated and possibly changed the
outcome of an NBA game. That is the biggest disaster
they've had cheating scandals involving referee back in the day,
(16:45):
Donovan I think was his name. And then like last year,
another player got in trouble for this, but he wasn't
a big time player when the big name player kind
of went away, and this is everything.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
This is everything. And look, and I am not belittling
in any way the amount of money that was lost here,
But when you think about the individuals who are purported
to have participated, you're talking about individuals who make and
we've talked about this, just tens of millions of dollars
per year, seven million dollars in total losses to them,
(17:21):
and in the scheme of things, with the perspective of
all the money being earned, that doesn't even seem like
much and certainly doesn't seem worth what Now, not only
will these individual folks be facing but as you point out,
the entire league itself is now dealing with something all
to do with seven million dollars cash, but that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Was they put that number in the indictment, but cash
hotels that it's tens of millions of dollars involved here.
But even if you hear that tens of millions of
dollars to a lot of NBA players. Look, he's been
in the league since twenty fifteen, so in the past
ten years he has made one hundred and sixty million
dollars in total income playing in the NBA since twenty fifteen,
(18:03):
one hundred and sixty million. And you got some dudes
counting cash tens of thousand dollars in your living room. Really,
so that doesn't sound right, and his attorney says, there's
a reason it doesn't sound right. Stay here, we are
going to give you the pretty fiery statement from the
attorney for Terry Rogier. We continue here now, folks, on
(18:33):
this Thursday, on after what was really an interesting and
really unexpected details we got from a press conference and
which authorities announced to historic as they call it, indictments
involving illegal gambling, why or fraud having to do with
former and current NBA players and one NBA current head
coach of the Portland Trail Blazers Chauncey Billups. Now Terry Rogier,
(18:55):
one of the players place with the Miami Heat who's
implicated in one of these cases. His attorney came out
and I think this is this is how you defend
your client in a statement. He hit on some points there.
I like, really what? So I had already question.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I had the same reaction because you hear Cash Bettel
and certainly the heads of several other federal and state
agencies speak and you think, my god, this is insane,
and it isn't it is insane. But then when you
hear Rogier's lawyer statement, already, yes, it does start to
poke some holes, at least in the case against him initially.
(19:33):
So here is what he had to say. We have
represented Terry Rogier for over a year. A long time ago,
we reached out to these prosecutors to tell them we
should have an open line of communication. They characterize Terry
as a subject, not a target. But at six am
this morning they called to tell me FBI agents were
trying to arrest him in a hotel. It is unfortunate
(19:55):
that instead of allowing him to self surrender, they opted
for a photo op. They wanted the misplaced glory of
embarrassing a professional athlete with a purp walk. That tells
you a lot about the motivations in this case. They
appear to be taking the word of spectacularly incredible sources,
like incredible, like not credible sources, rather than relying on
(20:19):
actual evidence of wrongdoing. Terry was cleared by the NBA,
and these prosecutors revived.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
That non case.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Terry is not a gambler, but he is not afraid
of a fight, and he looks forward to winning this fight.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's well done. That's how you defend your client right
there in public, Like almost every line, I was like, oh, okay,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Oh really, what well with the money he's made, I
hope he can afford a really good lawyer. It sounds
like he has and will be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Nothing else. He's a good writer, whoever that is. But
that is it kind of makes sense if you want
to argue, maybe he didn't know. Is he a subject
of this? Was he some one a victim to a
certain degree, somebody taken advantage of And they also say
these mobsters, mafia, they use intimidation and violence and threats
to get some people to pay up. How else were
(21:10):
these threats in Vaya? Who knows, but that statement certainly
made me stop and think and question and go, oh,
that makes sense. I cannot make any sense if somebody
with one hundred and sixty million dollars that they've made
wants to pick up fifty grand.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
The only because yes, of course, you're immediately going to motivation,
Like I understand if somebody is cash strapped, it's still
not okay, but you can at least understand the motive
where they're desperate to whatever pay a bill or feed
their family, or maybe it's greed to a certain extent.
But when you already have that much money, how much
(21:43):
more greed do you need to be the only thing
you can think of is the thrill of it, the
excitement of it. But that also just seems idiotic.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, the other ways that gets you kicks. But yeah,
everybody here is presumed innocent until otherwise noted. But this
was a hell of a story, hell of the details
to hear. I was looking robes that did not see
that the Portland Trailblazers, at least this recording, had put
out a statement. I also don't see their schedule in
(22:13):
front of me don't where they're supposed to be headed next,
but I mean the NBA season is underway, They're going
to be games on tonight, and whatever commentator is on
this will be the first thing talked about.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Today, most certainly. And we will of course keep our
eye on those hearings that are scheduled to happen later
today at some point, because if any new information comes
out from that, we will obviously pass that along to you.
But it's hard to imagine that much is going to
be said other than a reading of the charges specifically,
and perhaps any sort of bail that would be negotiated.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I have no idea. This is such an unusual situation.
It's hard to even imagine what could possibly happen next,
and what the opportunities will be for any of these
defendants to post bail. It's hard to say.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But they do play tomorrow night. They are scheduled the
Portland Trailblazers to take on the Golden State Warriors tomorrow
night in Portland. We shall see if that game takes play.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Do you think this brings more eyes to NBA games
at least for the next couple of nights? Do you
think that there is now with this spectacle that's taken place,
and obviously it's for all the wrong reasons, but I imagine
more people will be watching, listening, wanting to hear what
commentators have to say, wanting to see at least how
players react, how coaches react. I mean, this is rocking
(23:38):
the NBA community.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I am curious to hear from all of those guys.
I want to hear from Shack Right, who knows Chauncey
really really well played against them in that finals, Right,
I want to hear from those guys, to hear what
they say and think about it. I think even the
retired guys are about to just I mean, they're former players,
but they are forever a part of the league to
watch this happen right now. Maybe it's a couple of knuckleheads,
(24:04):
but it's gonna hurt the league for a while. And
what have they been doing for the past several years.
They've been partnering with all these gambling sites. They're trying
to bring gambling into the league. Every time you turn
on the TV and you see a game on, it
shows you what at the bottom the over under right.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And I'm always asking you what it means because I
have no idea.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I'm like, what is that doubtful college games? They're giving
you betting lines. All you see is betting and gambling.
So are we surprised this happens? If you get the right, like,
if you are in business to make money gambling, just
go get into the ear of one NBA player, one
NFL player that can change a game. Man, this is
(24:50):
scary as hell. Oh man, Commission of Silver, Adam Silver,
for God bless you. But you gotta mess on your
hands now, folks, we just want to hop on. This
just happened, and we knew this was going to be
a big story. We'll keep an eye. We'll see if
something happens in court that we need to hop back
on for, but otherwise, at this point, it's all We
(25:10):
got T. J. Holmes along with Amy Robot. We'll talk
to y'all soon.
Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, October twenty third, and
we just spent forty five minutes repeatedly screaming at the
TV say what now, because we just watched a press
conference in which they announced historic indictments involving the mob money,
(00:23):
illegal gambling, current and former NBA players, and one current
head coach in the NBA. And with that, folks, welcome
to this episode of Amy and TJ. We got a
breaking news alert that something was coming. It was before
the press conference. Then the press conference started, and we said,
holy hell, is this for real?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, full disclosure here. You read the initial headline about
NBA players and gambling, and I kind of glazed over
and I just was wow, I guess that's a story.
Didn't seem like anything that I would be interested in
until the press conference started, and then it was as
if I was watching a Hollywood movie, which I know
(01:04):
everyone is saying, but truly, there's no other way to
describe the information that came out, the people who were involved,
and the amount of law enforcement intra agencies all standing
collectively together to announce this truly shocking, historic I don't
want to say arrest arrests, what thirty plus thirty four
(01:27):
was the last count I heard, but they said and
counting potentially.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, folks, So we are talking about them now breaking
up a year's long scheme in which gambling is involved
and essentially bilking players out of what they say are
millions and millions of dollars. So what we're talking about here, yes,
Cash Bettel, You had the New York Police Department commissioner
(01:51):
as a part of this. US attorneys involved. There were
so many agencies standing up there to make the announcement
of two cases in which wirefraud, money laundering, extortion, robbery,
illegal gambling among some of the charges. They say this
happened in nine states in the early morning hours with
the coordination of all of these hundreds of agents, and
(02:12):
they went and arrested thirty plus defendants, and among them
an NBA Hall of Famer and current NBA coach Chauncey Billups,
current coach of the Portland Trailblazers, former players involved, and
one current member of the Miami Heat and Ropes. These
look this is all kind of loosely connected, but also
not really. But they announced essentially two major cases today,
(02:37):
two major operations, two different indictments, and.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yet they were. It was interesting how connected they were.
But yes, two separate cases. One was called Operation Nothing
but Bet. How do you like that playing off of
nothing but Net?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You like it? Fine?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's for FBI agents. I guess that's a good one.
But that was the operation on illegal betting on NBA
games using insider information. Notably, I'm still learning some of
the lingo here, but this is actually called prop betting.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yes, you are familiar with it from Super Bowl, probably
the only time you start thinking about prop bets. What
we're talking about is not just betting on who wins
or who loses the game, but all the side bets. Right,
how long is the national anthem? That's a prop bet
at the Super Bowl? How many yards will this player,
the quarterback put up?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Or how many points will a player score?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So people love betting prop bets because you essentially say,
all right, the prop is twenty, he's going to score twenty.
I'll take the under or I'll take the over. So yeah,
it's a fun, kind of an easy way to do
your gambling without necessarily being hardcore. And this is prime
for cheating because if you can get somebody a player
to you know fake and injury should do a little
(03:54):
something funny.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You should mention that because that is the allegation and
the charge against current Miami Heat guard Terry Rosier. He
was arrested this morning in Orlando, I believe where he
had been playing.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Correct, Well, he had a game last night. He dressed
but did not play. Coach's decision. They say, so who
knows that they saw something like this coming. Do you
like the other name of the other operation better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The other operation is called Operation Royal Flush. And this
was about an underground rigged I mean when you hear
about how they rigged this game, or how authorities say
they rigged this game, it is jaw dropping. But apparently
there were members of the mob rigging illegal poker games,
and so they were operated by LaCOSA Nostra our things
(04:40):
Sicilian mafia here in America. Four of the five families
are implicated in this, but notably so is Hall of
Famer as you mentioned, and current coach called mister big
Shot Chauncey Phillips.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Has a long and storied history, but he is a
Hall of Famer. Just went to the Hall of Fame
last year. Actually, the folks arrested here you mentioned the
crime families. I think it came maybe a surprise to
some people that these folks are still up and running, right.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I thought these were families of legend past and not
currently operating and flourishing, so to speak. It seems like
something that you again just watching a movie or reading
a crime novel, but not something that's currently going on.
But yeah, when they start naming family names like Gambino, Lukesi,
genovesei Banano, all of those names, those family names, those
(05:33):
Italian names connected to the mafia are all should be
pretty familiar to most people.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Gambino was probably the most famous out there, given I mean,
John Gotty was the head of that family for a
while with just I mean, that's a classic, historic, storied family.
And to think that they are still in ball. So yes,
folks were talking about those mob families are alleged to
have been in bed with some current and former NBA
(05:59):
players in the current coach to build folks out of
possibly millions of dollars. So all of this happened in
the early morning hours these arrests. They were able to
keep this quiet, which is fairly impressive given that they
have hundreds of agents and agencies, several agencies involved. So
Chelncey Billups, you didn't know the name initially, I don't think.
I don't know if you would know the face when
(06:19):
you first saw it. But we can't really overstate how
big of a deal and big of a career he
has had in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You'd be able to obviously give that perspective that I
could not. But I know that he's the current coach
of the Portland Trailblazers. But when I started reading about
who this guy was, I mean, yes, he was called
mister big shot for a reason.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, seventeen years. You hear anybody played seventeen years in
the NBA. They obviously were pretty good. But he won
a championship with the Pistons in two thousand and four.
He stopped that team, stopped what they thought was going
to be a three peat by Kobe and Shaq. Wow.
With the Lakers, yes, so they win this. He was
the MVP of the Finals. Let you know, on the
(07:01):
biggest stage, he shows up. He was an NBA All Star,
five time NBA All Star. His jersey is retired in Detroit,
and he is a Hall of Famer. Just went into
the Hall of Fame last year, and he yes is
the current coach of the Portland Trail Blazers, who started
their seat the NBA season just kicked off. Had two
(07:21):
glorious nights of games.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I saw a picture from him last night. Correct they
lost to the Minnesota I'm so bad Vikings. I'm terrible
with No, that's wrong Timberwolves. I knew this sport.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Is not my Jim. I knew I was going to
get a roam. So that's fine sport, but it's the
same city. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But yes, when you start to see he was on
the court last night seemingly unsuspecting of what was going
to The loss was the least thing he should be
worried about this morning when he woke up, Yes, to
find himself under arrest. He along with Terry Rogier and
Damon Jones, we have to talk about him to all
(08:07):
have hearings this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So yes, we are going to hear something, probably not
necessarily much, but going to be making an appearance. Not
Terry Rogier. If you don't know who this kid is
either as a kid, but he's been in the league
ten plus years now. He was drafted sixteen overall by Boston.
That's lets you know how good of a player he
was sixteen overall is a big deal. He played at
Louisville in his college days. He ended up going from
(08:32):
Boston was he was a role player to Charlotte where
he flourished, started averaging about twenty points a game, and
then he went to Miami and he's been there since
twenty twenty three. This is a guy who is on
the last year of a four year, ninety six million
dollar contracts. So a lot of people will scratch their heads.
Why the hell is he involved in trying to make
(08:52):
a few bucks in a legal gameplay.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's insane. I mean, he makes twenty plus million dollars
a year. Someone was pointing out because according to the FBI,
there was a particular date, I believe in March of
twenty twenty three, where he is accused of feigning an
injury to get out of a game early to then
skew the bets on him. Those prop bets. We were
just talking about how many points he would score in
(09:14):
the game. But they said the money that was made
was around two hundred thousand dollars on that, which is
about and he had to split it with the folks
who made the money. But apparently this is small change.
This is like pennies to you and me. So it
makes no sense why he would put his reputation, his freedom,
and certainly his NBA career on the line for something
(09:37):
as small as that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, it doesn't sound very bright, but these are just allegations.
At this point we have heard from his attorney. We'll
read that here at the end. The other name of
note again might not be one you know, but you
might recognize the face because he was on TV a
whole lot, because he was next to Lebron James a
whole lot, like Damon Jones. He did have a ten
plus year career in the league, but he played notably
with Lebron in some of Lebron's early days there in Cleveland,
(10:03):
and he was an assistant coach in twenty sixteen when
Cleveland won that championship over the Warriors, was in that
arena and covered that team on awful lot.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And he's being accused of being a part of this
mafia scandal Royal Flush Chauncey Phillips, the Royal Flush investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
All right, So let's explain what this alleged involvement by
Billups and jones Is. And this is where things robes
get absolutely wacky. First of all, yes, these were rigged
poker games. Allegedly they were playing a part of Now
these big name guys, somebody like Chauncey Billups, according to authorities,
were referred to as face cards. They were the celebrities
(10:43):
who were sitting at the table, and they were kind
of there to distract the fish. The fish is the
target that they are trying to essentially rob, So everybody
at the table is in on it, the dealers in
on it, everybody except the fish. But that wasn't just all.
They use some technology that I don't even think they
(11:04):
did an Oceans eleven some of this.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Stuff, right, I mean, it sounded like something out of
an Ocean's eleven movie, where apparently they had custom shuffling
machines that could read the order of the cards. They
had hidden cameras built into tables and chandeliers that they
could see information that you're not supposed to see and
then pass them along to the player's poker chip trays
(11:25):
that could secretly read cards, special contact lenses that could
read cards that I've got that freaked me out. X
Ray table that could read the cards when they were
faced down.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Again, what this is a real operation. They really invested
in this thing. Also, they had shuffling machines. They said,
these were just regular commercial you can get them on
the market off the shelf, is how we refer to it.
Shuffling machines that could read the cards. But they would
then predict who at the table would have the best hand.
They could predict this. So this is what happens with
(12:01):
all that information. It's relayed back to what they call
the quarterback, who was not on site. Then the quarterback
would take that info and relay it back to the
people at the table who worked in coordination to cheat
the fish.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And the fish were basically high rollers, the people who
had the money, who wanted to play, and what they
thought was a fair illegal game because the game itself
was conducted illegally, but they thought that these were fair games.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Hey, if you can't trust the criminal, what are you
gonna do?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Did they know that the mafia was involved in setting
up any of these games? I'm curious. I'm even thinking
from like the NBA coach and former coach, former player's
point of view, how scary or is it exciting to
know that you're now in bed with, so to speak,
with the mafia like that is just some crazy, scary
(13:00):
stuff that a successful person you wouldn't think would want
to be involved with.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, and they have not watched all of those mob documentaries.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It doesn't end well.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
You never want to be in business with the mom
You just.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Don't, especially if you don't have to be. I understand
that financially, somehow you're I don't know, backed into a corner.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
This was not them, Yeah, this was not that case
at all. Now you were mentioning this incident as well,
having to do with Terry Rogier. Again, terror Rogier is
part of it was announced today, but a different indictment
from Chauncey Phillips. He's alleged to have been a part
of this scheme operation nothing but bet that involved player performances.
Now he would use, according to authorities, inside information he
(13:44):
might have and passed that along and then folks would
alter their prop bets. Now robes this through me. They
announced that involved players from teams from Charlotte, Portland, the Lakers,
and Toronto. Now didn't say that necessarily all these plays
were in on it, but more so that some other
(14:05):
folks might have had inside information that they passed along
involving those players. So I want to be clear. They
named those teams but didn't say there are players on
all those teams who were involved.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Could have just been someone adjacent to the team or
someone who was who had that was privy to that
type of information that could be passed along then to
folks placing bets.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But please tell this is the story you got to hear,
and I just wanted to do it in their roads
line by line for how the New York Police of
Army Commissioner explained Terry Rogier's involvement.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
All right, So this is from the NYPD commissioner. One
example occurred on March twenty third, twenty twenty three, in Charlotte.
Terry Rogier, an NBA player now with the Miami Heat
but at the time playing for the Charlotte Hornets, allegedly
let others close to him know that he planned to
leave the game early with a supposed injury. Using that information,
(14:55):
members of the group placed more than two hundred thousand
dollars in wagers on his under statistics. Rogier exited the
game after just nine minutes, and those bets paid out,
generating tens of thousands of dollars in profits. The proceeds
were later delivered to his home, where the group counted
(15:16):
their cash. As the NBA season tips off, his career
is already benched. Not for injury, but for integrity.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's going to be the biggest problem for the NBA.
If you, integrity of the game is everything. If there
is any suggestion that players on the field are altering
their performance for the sake of gambling, you are going
to have the biggest scandal ever.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
See it's so funny because I know that this. You
love the NBA, You love the game, and that was
my number one question to you. What do you think
this does to the integrity of the game. This is
they just opened their season. There's so much excitement and
fanfare and victoriously.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I mean, it was a great launch to the season.
A boy, you know Chuck, he's over on ESPN nine.
That was a big opening. The first game was a
double overtime thriller. This was a great start to the season.
And now this is the season. This will dog them
the entire season because now you got to look out
there every time somebody doesn't play every time somebody is
(16:24):
off a little bit, everybody's going to be under investigation
by the public. I mean correct, this is the scary. Wait,
you have a player who cheated and possibly changed the
outcome of an NBA game. That is the biggest disaster
they've had cheating scandals involving referee back in the day,
(16:45):
Donovan I think was his name. And then like last year,
another player got in trouble for this, but he wasn't
a big time player when the big name player kind
of went away, and this is everything.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
This is everything. And look, and I am not belittling
in any way the amount of money that was lost here,
But when you think about the individuals who are purported
to have participated, you're talking about individuals who make and
we've talked about this, just tens of millions of dollars
per year, seven million dollars in total losses to them,
(17:21):
and in the scheme of things, with the perspective of
all the money being earned, that doesn't even seem like
much and certainly doesn't seem worth what Now, not only
will these individual folks be facing but as you point out,
the entire league itself is now dealing with something all
to do with seven million dollars cash, but that.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Was they put that number in the indictment, but cash
hotels that it's tens of millions of dollars involved here.
But even if you hear that tens of millions of
dollars to a lot of NBA players. Look, he's been
in the league since twenty fifteen, so in the past
ten years he has made one hundred and sixty million
dollars in total income playing in the NBA since twenty fifteen,
(18:03):
one hundred and sixty million. And you got some dudes
counting cash tens of thousand dollars in your living room. Really,
so that doesn't sound right, and his attorney says, there's
a reason it doesn't sound right. Stay here, we are
going to give you the pretty fiery statement from the
attorney for Terry Rogier. We continue here now, folks, on
(18:33):
this Thursday, on after what was really an interesting and
really unexpected details we got from a press conference and
which authorities announced to historic as they call it, indictments
involving illegal gambling, why or fraud having to do with
former and current NBA players and one NBA current head
coach of the Portland Trail Blazers Chauncey Billups. Now Terry Rogier,
(18:55):
one of the players place with the Miami Heat who's
implicated in one of these cases. His attorney came out
and I think this is this is how you defend
your client in a statement. He hit on some points there.
I like, really what? So I had already question.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I had the same reaction because you hear Cash Bettel
and certainly the heads of several other federal and state
agencies speak and you think, my god, this is insane,
and it isn't it is insane. But then when you
hear Rogier's lawyer statement, already, yes, it does start to
poke some holes, at least in the case against him initially.
(19:33):
So here is what he had to say. We have
represented Terry Rogier for over a year. A long time ago,
we reached out to these prosecutors to tell them we
should have an open line of communication. They characterize Terry
as a subject, not a target. But at six am
this morning they called to tell me FBI agents were
trying to arrest him in a hotel. It is unfortunate
(19:55):
that instead of allowing him to self surrender, they opted
for a photo op. They wanted the misplaced glory of
embarrassing a professional athlete with a purp walk. That tells
you a lot about the motivations in this case. They
appear to be taking the word of spectacularly incredible sources,
like incredible, like not credible sources, rather than relying on
(20:19):
actual evidence of wrongdoing. Terry was cleared by the NBA,
and these prosecutors revived.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
That non case.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Terry is not a gambler, but he is not afraid
of a fight, and he looks forward to winning this fight.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's well done. That's how you defend your client right
there in public, Like almost every line, I was like, oh, okay,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Oh really, what well with the money he's made, I
hope he can afford a really good lawyer. It sounds
like he has and will be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Nothing else. He's a good writer, whoever that is. But
that is it kind of makes sense if you want
to argue, maybe he didn't know. Is he a subject
of this? Was he some one a victim to a
certain degree, somebody taken advantage of And they also say
these mobsters, mafia, they use intimidation and violence and threats
to get some people to pay up. How else were
(21:10):
these threats in Vaya? Who knows, but that statement certainly
made me stop and think and question and go, oh,
that makes sense. I cannot make any sense if somebody
with one hundred and sixty million dollars that they've made
wants to pick up fifty grand.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
The only because yes, of course, you're immediately going to motivation,
Like I understand if somebody is cash strapped, it's still
not okay, but you can at least understand the motive
where they're desperate to whatever pay a bill or feed
their family, or maybe it's greed to a certain extent.
But when you already have that much money, how much
(21:43):
more greed do you need to be the only thing
you can think of is the thrill of it, the
excitement of it. But that also just seems idiotic.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, the other ways that gets you kicks. But yeah,
everybody here is presumed innocent until otherwise noted. But this
was a hell of a story, hell of the details
to hear. I was looking robes that did not see
that the Portland Trailblazers, at least this recording, had put
out a statement. I also don't see their schedule in
(22:13):
front of me don't where they're supposed to be headed next,
but I mean the NBA season is underway, They're going
to be games on tonight, and whatever commentator is on
this will be the first thing talked about.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Today, most certainly. And we will of course keep our
eye on those hearings that are scheduled to happen later
today at some point, because if any new information comes
out from that, we will obviously pass that along to you.
But it's hard to imagine that much is going to
be said other than a reading of the charges specifically,
and perhaps any sort of bail that would be negotiated.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I have no idea. This is such an unusual situation.
It's hard to even imagine what could possibly happen next,
and what the opportunities will be for any of these
defendants to post bail. It's hard to say.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But they do play tomorrow night. They are scheduled the
Portland Trailblazers to take on the Golden State Warriors tomorrow
night in Portland. We shall see if that game takes play.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Do you think this brings more eyes to NBA games
at least for the next couple of nights? Do you
think that there is now with this spectacle that's taken place,
and obviously it's for all the wrong reasons, but I imagine
more people will be watching, listening, wanting to hear what
commentators have to say, wanting to see at least how
players react, how coaches react. I mean, this is rocking
(23:38):
the NBA community.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I am curious to hear from all of those guys.
I want to hear from Shack Right, who knows Chauncey
really really well played against them in that finals, Right,
I want to hear from those guys, to hear what
they say and think about it. I think even the
retired guys are about to just I mean, they're former players,
but they are forever a part of the league to
watch this happen right now. Maybe it's a couple of knuckleheads,
(24:04):
but it's gonna hurt the league for a while. And
what have they been doing for the past several years.
They've been partnering with all these gambling sites. They're trying
to bring gambling into the league. Every time you turn
on the TV and you see a game on, it
shows you what at the bottom the over under right.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And I'm always asking you what it means because I
have no idea.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I'm like, what is that doubtful college games? They're giving
you betting lines. All you see is betting and gambling.
So are we surprised this happens? If you get the right, like,
if you are in business to make money gambling, just
go get into the ear of one NBA player, one
NFL player that can change a game. Man, this is
(24:50):
scary as hell. Oh man, Commission of Silver, Adam Silver,
for God bless you. But you gotta mess on your
hands now, folks, we just want to hop on. This
just happened, and we knew this was going to be
a big story. We'll keep an eye. We'll see if
something happens in court that we need to hop back
on for, but otherwise, at this point, it's all We
(25:10):
got T. J. Holmes along with Amy Robot. We'll talk
to y'all soon.
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