June 24, 2025 • 22 mins
Diddy’s defense team is finishing its cross examination of the prosecution’s final witness. Amy and T.J. go over never before seen text messages from “Jane” and “Cassie” where the two actually seem giddy when talking about freak offs with male escorts and Diddy.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's Tuesday, June twenty fourth. We are in the seventh
week of testimony in the Diddy trial, and as we speak,
the final witness of the trial is on the stand.
Welcome to this Ditty update edition of Amy and TJ
and Robes has been seven weeks. It's weird to say
this is the last guy where're going to hear from.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's right, and right now he is being cross examined
by Ditty's defense attorneys, and once that cross examination is over,
that's it. It's it's hard to imagine, but yes, the
defense says it will rest. It is not calling any
witnesses to the stand. So what we're hearing from this
homeland security agent is the end of the evidence for
(00:42):
the jurors to consider.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Are they going out I don't know, with a bang
with a third I don't know, because there have been
so many explosive witnesses and explosive testimony that it seems
like a guy going through hotel receipts, some text messages,
some travel itineraries, like boring stuff, but is important stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I think.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Honestly, if you look at what the prosecution presented on
Friday and yesterday, it was kind of boring. He was
connecting the dots. He was saying, did he paid for this?
Did he paid for that? But now with the defense
cross examining him, I think it's a little bit more
interesting because they are actually reading text messages between Ditty
and Jane right now, and also between Jane and an escort,
(01:27):
and I found it pretty interesting how much she took
control of coordinating and then also praising and talking about
how much she enjoyed having sex with the escort and
telling Diddy that she wanted to have some alone time
with him, some one on one time with him. She
said she hadn't actually been with him, she said selfishly,
(01:49):
I don't know what that means in five months. That's
interesting to me that pretty much their intimacy was her
having sex with other men and him watching it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But she seemed excited about it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Some of these text messages certainly are massively favorable for
the defense. She said, I haven't stopped thinking about it.
It just gets better and better. That's what Jane texted
to Diddy, and then she texted to the escort. This
was one for the books, so it didn't sound like
somebody who was coerced or somebody who didn't want to
be there, or someone who felt like they had to
(02:20):
be there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So before this guy even got on the stand today
to start the day, there was a significant delay before
we even got to some of these text messages because
they had to fight over what text messages they would
even be allowed to enter. I believe by most of
the estimates people in the court room seemed like anyway
from a thirty to forty five minute delay after nine
am in getting to the.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Stand of that field.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
What about right, Yes, because the attorneys were arguing, that's
the right, debate.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Debated, they were debated, Well, they still argue too.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes, they were debating and arguing in front of the
judge over text messages they wanted to have entered into
testimony and entered into evidence. And there were several objections
by the prosecution, in particular to some of Cassie ventor
refines text messages to Ditty. In particular, there was one
that the defense wanted to submit in which she was
(03:12):
talking about wanting to have sex, to wanting to be
with him, wanting and they wanted to enter this to
show look she was initiating this, she wanted this. The
prosecution objected, and the judge sustained the objection because the
judge even said, she was talking about one on one time.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, she was talking about having sex with Ditty, And
I think that's really clear, and she's made that clear
that's all she wanted, and that she was tolerating or
at worst being coerced into having sex with other men
just so she could try and get eventually, ultimately alone
time with Ditty.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So she will, and it makes sense she would be
excited or wanting to be with her man one on one,
and the judge saw that, so he said, absolutely, that
objection is sustained. You're not going to be able to
use that one. But then there were three others at
least that they were trying to get interered, and the
prosecution objected, but he overruled those objections because she was
talking about baby oil, she was talking about some other
(04:07):
things that seemed to show that she was a willing
participant and initiated some of this stuff. So the defense
lost on that one text message, but they won on
all of these others that they are going to be
able to present.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And of course this is all the defenses, I mean,
this is their case. They might not be calling any
witnesses of their own, but this is their case to
prove to the jury. They are saying that everything that
happened was consensual, that Jane and Cassie were both willing participants,
and in some cases, if you look at these text messages,
not just willing, but excited and anticipatory of what happened.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And then even in the aftermath of.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Some of these freak offs, they were talking about how
great it was, how amazing it was. So they have
certainly cast some doubt and in terms of motive or
why or how this all came about why these women
were participating.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
What is that good enough?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
What you described there? Is that good enough to say
for them? The way they explain that is, hey, yes,
of course they were saying that to Diddy because they
felt this is what he wanted, this is what they
had to do. That seems to be always the comeback
that none of that was authentic. They were performing for him,
even in the text message.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Then couldn't you argue that how would did he ascertain
the difference between the two.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
If he's being told this?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
They did argue that, right, I mean, if he's being
told by these women that they're excited about it and
that they want it, and that afterwards they were happy
about it and wanted more of it. How is he
supposed to know that they're just performing for him so
that they can be with him. That doesn't really make
a lot of sense to me. I mean, it looks
to me.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Again. I'll reiterate no legal expert here.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But man, I think the defense has done an amazing
job in all of their cross examinations and certainly even today,
showing the jurors that there is some doubt in terms
of whether or not these women were forced to participate
in these freak offs. I think that there is definitely doubt.
Can you hear their own words in real time of
when this was all going on.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Wasn't it a big thing earlier in the trial about
whether or not I think it was Cassie vent Or
Fine who was saying she needed to be on drugs
for these free calls like she does. No way she
could just she had to numb herself. But one of
the objections this morning was over a text message that
Cassie vent Or final Fine had between with her and Didty,
in which she was asked can she do the freak
(06:26):
off without the drugs. Her response was, yes, the judge
overruled the objection to that text. That is going to
be able to submit into evidence. So that was a
big deal for a while. This is the only way
I could get through. And now the jury is being told,
Oh so she could, in clear conscience and right mind
(06:47):
participate and she's saying it here.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And she texted that in real time. She texted it.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And again, how is Diddy supposed to know that if
it's true she was lying about it, if she actually
really couldn't do it without drugs, how's he supposed to
know she's lying to him when she says she could
do it without drugs. And yeah, those texts are incredibly
damning and it undermines a lot of the testimony that
we heard from both Cassie and Jane while they were
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And so Jane has been the heart a lot of
the heart a lot of the conversation this morning with
this Homeland Security agent.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I didn't expect him.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
He's been out this as what Friday, Yeah, they knew. Yeah,
I thought he's gonna be kind of a throwaway, and
he's been up there and incredibly important but some of
the text messages, so many of them are focused on
Jane and there back and forth, and some of the
the defense, of course the cross examination, now the prosecution
presented different text messages, but now these are painting a
(07:44):
wildly different picture of a woman who was giddy.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, one a good word.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
That's a very I was trying to find the word
when I was saying excited or anticipatory, but giddy.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Giddy is a very good word.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And they also were just putting up messages where Jane
was telling it how much she loved him and that
she would not take him for granted. I mean this,
that's if the motivation is love, how is that coercion?
I mean, that's what it seems like to me when
I when I hear even the testimony from these two women.
But certainly these text messages that the defense is pointing
out and having read aloud to me as a layman,
(08:19):
it seems like these women were motivated by love and
desire and maybe even some money.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Maybe even some money, but that's that was their choice.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
They wanted to they wanted to be able to live
a different kind of lifestyle, so that all seems like
off benefit to them that and how many other women
have done things that they didn't want to do because
they love demand. I mean, I think that's just a
common thing that has happened. Does that mean a crime
was committed. Does that mean that someone needs to go
to prison for the rest of their lives?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, that okay, And I just want to make sure
you're saying that as far as what the jurors might have.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Correct, correct, I'm thinking about this. No, no, no, no, I'm
not saying that.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I'm saying I think, well, I do think that most
women can put themselves in that position.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I actually it'll be so interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
To see if the jurors do decide to speak or
at least talk about why they made their decisions, but
like how it falls not just between black and white
or race, but gender and as a woman. You know, Look,
I was disgusted and appalled and hearing and seeing all
of this and just feeling so badly for these women
who are giving this gut wrenching testimony and putting themselves
(09:25):
and their reputations on the line, having been forced to
watch humiliating videos of sexually explicit acts that they were committing.
So I was definitely wanting to be team team women.
But hearing all of these other text messages, I can
kind of see it in a human experience, and I'm
(09:45):
sure there's regret and I'm sure there's anger, But where
was their responsibility in participating? And that is where I
think a lot of jurors, as human beings and maybe
even as women, can.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Say, oh, sound they were love sick.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Sounds like they really just wanted to be with him
and they would do anything they could to be with him.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Does that mean there was a crime?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You're saying that Their question is not a legal one
but almost an emotional one. It sounds like they're Obviously
emotions come into any jury deliberation. But all these jury
instructions and all these lee lees in the back and forth,
he was like, all right, let's follow the law. But
this might simply come down to whether or not they
believe these women, whether or not they believe that they
(10:31):
were part time. I asked you this the other day.
I think, can you be a part time victim if
the other part of the time you're a willing participant?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yes? I think the answer to that is yes.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, so that's the guy. We get past that.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So then let's go with the part when they were
possibly a victim. Can you say, I mean, how much
doubt is someone going to have in their head in
that jury room? Is that what they're having to really
decide whether or not these women were willing participants?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What was in their heart?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Was it about love that yes?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Or were they forced because.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
There's that line.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Coercion for I mean, it's it's so tough.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
It's so tough now and now that we've heard all
of the testimony and we've really seen Ditty's lawyers be
excellent in terms of where they took their questioning, where
they took their cross examination, it's cast a shadow of
doubt for me, I mean, just as someone who's been
watching it for sure, this one's tough.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
To our point.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
One of the text messages April twenty twenty two, I
even wrote a note to myself fear oh shit when
I saw this, and just that was the note thing.
Oh but and this is what Jane wrote to Ditty
in April twenty twenty two. Baby, I want to make
love to you. I haven't selfishly had you to myself
for five months. I'm fine with the other stuff, but
(12:03):
I really just need you right now. Diddy's response, Okay,
whatever you want. That sounds like a couple. That sounds
like a relationship, That sounds like an understanding. That eden
sounds like her telling him what we've been doing is cool.
Can I just have this? And the follow up to
this sure enough they had some alone time.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That's a tough.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Exchange, man, that really is that is incredibly damning. I
would think to the prosecution's contention that this was coercion,
that doesn't sound like coercion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I'm fine with the other stuff, but I really just
need you right now. His response was, Okay, whatever you want.
How I don't know what the prosecution. I don't know
if they're going to get up and say anything. They
get a chance to redirect with this witness, I don't
know if they're going to try to take that on
or not. But my word, that is just a totally
(12:56):
different picture.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And the one that I just mentioned it, But the
one that really stood out to me was when and
it's it's Tenny Garagos who is doing the cross examination
right now, but when she had the Homeland Security agent
read aloud the text messages between Ditty and Jane and
(13:20):
an escort, So they were all there texting, and Jane
text combs about the freak cops about having sex with
an escort that the prosecution is maintaining. She was cool,
worce to do. It just gets better and better, and
she's telling ditty this. You know, it's so fascinating because
before we had cell phones and text messages. Imagine how
(13:41):
much more difficult this trial would be. But these text
messages tell stories that you can't right, he.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Would be not guilty.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's several years ago. You wouldn't have all this evidence, right,
That is so weird to think about. You would not
have this. It would just he says. She said, that's
all the option they would have at the time. That
is I never stop to think about this. Whole thing
has been about interactions and video and surveillance and electronics,
and it's.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
All iPads about modern technology.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And you can try to make it look one way,
but then when the defense shines a light on the
other text messages, it the fuller picture is around. I mean,
I do think this gives the jury the best possible
vantage point other than actually being there and witnessing it
in the moment. It's kind of close because not only
look they yesterday. According to the Homeland Security Agent, they
(14:34):
found fifty video files just in a pretty short period
of time.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I believe that was the one that it was like
five days before Christmas one.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yes, yes, it was December of twenty twenty one, I believe.
And they showed the jurors two of them. So, I mean,
this is wild. It's as close as you can get
to being there in the room with them and then
hearing how each party felt afterwards and beforehand, with text
messages accompanying these videos.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Can you imagine if this trial was allowed to be
on camera on TV, they couldn't think about the Oja trial,
thinking about even the Amber heard Johnny depth thing that
people were locked to. If this were on camp, we
could sit and watch this on TV every day, but.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
They have to blur everything out. You couldn't have that audio, some.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Of the language.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
It's not for TV.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Oh my god. I wouldn't miss a second of it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Maybe HBO I would have been captivated.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I wouldn't have missed them.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Whether you want to admit it or not, you everyone
would be watching this.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Don't know how this one doesn't feel necessarily that voyeuristic
to me. I suppose it is and there's a celebrity nature,
but that's so many things having like real societal issues
like we mentioned of race, of class, of power of man, woman,
of me too, of right relationships, of coersions, so many
fine lines, and there's so many things that I hope
we do discuss all of us after this trial. But
(16:04):
it was such a I guess it was such a cultural,
a societal event versus just a celebrity one, and that's
probably a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I know it's salacious and for a lot of folks
and the stuff, but I don't pay attention to a
lot of the stuff and the social media we're on.
I know people probably saying some pretty nasty things about
baby oil.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And all those jokes and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But this has given us all a chance to have
some pretty important conversations.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, this is about the music industry, This is about
the hip hop culture. This is about you know, where
is the line between yes and maybe what's the gray area?
What's a crime what's not? I mean, and that will
always be in any in any trial, in any case.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
An issue of.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And there's no rape charge here, but whether or not
you were forced to have sex or not have sex.
That has always been one of the most difficult crimes
to prove ever, because typically it is he said, she said,
And how do you know who said yes, who said no,
who wanted to who didn't. It's a very very delicate
issue that you know, this trial, there's so many ripple
(17:15):
effects that will happen based on what the outcome is,
What the jury decides, what the verdict is, could affect
whether cases come forward again, whether victims come forward again,
whether people feel empowered to do what they want because
someone got away with something. You know, is this will
have long standing, a long standing impact on future cases.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and what's going to happen with I mean, we
have we considered the possibility that this man could walk
out of their freeman, What that's going to look like? Man,
what that's going to mean. Have we considered what it
looks like if he gets kind of a lesser charge.
Have we considered what looks like if they decide to
put him in jail for.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
The rest of his life. I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No, there is no right or wrong. I just don't
know how we react to all those scenarios. Him walking
out in the front of that courthouse. I can't imagine.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
We haven't seen him since the rest.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We have not laid eyes on him.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
We've got court sketch artists renderings of him.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I was just looking. Maybe I'm talking about this earlier.
I'm so tired.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I just see one of the artists drawings of the
Homeland Security agent that's on the stand. They all it
looks like Reggie Miller to me from the Indiana Pasers.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm big xalf to y'all.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I'm we're sketch artists. I have noticed, and I'm sure
they're phenomenal at their jobs. And I'm not trying to
knock any of them there. I think there are three
of them, but they all the people in the court
room all look ghoulish to me.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
That's the best way I can describe.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Look have you ever.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I don't know who's considered a great court remark, but
it's they're doing this so quickly in the heat of
them all.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Things are moving so fast, So I I really do
give them credit. They're putting together this rendition in moments.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
It's just, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I think that's so impressive that they're able to do.
But no, it's not supposed to be the Mona.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Lisa every time or like some exact science. There is
some creative license being taken place.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I just the one takeaway is that Sean Combs has
a lot of gray hair that I never realized he did.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We all do, any.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Dude, any black man you see over forty five with
a black head of hair as gray as shit. Okay,
I'm graying. I'm a full gray yet, but I'm graying.
Oh god, yeah, yes, grow the beard out. My beard
be full gray?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Would it really?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's insane? Oh yes, we're all stopped.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
He's fifty five, the jet black hair, like stop, I
love you, but come on.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Man, Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Yes, So you
know we this is this is it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
The defense might present or enter into evidence a few
exhibits or items, and then tomorrow the prosecution and the
defense will meet with the judge to discuss jury instructions,
and then it looks like we will have They said,
I don't know how they know this, but I guess
both the defense and the prosecution have four hours each
(20:10):
or their anticipatory is that what it is? Okay, so
four hours each to present their case. So that will
be full day on Thursday, and that will be fascinating.
I actually am really anticipating what they're going to say
and how they're gonna leave, what they're gonna leave the
jurors with, what their final final thoughts are.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And yes, we did four hours. That's a lot. God,
do different different attorneys take different parts of it? I
imagine you know.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
What I'm not used to.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I would say no, from the real cases I remember,
I don't remember them tag teaming.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Have you ever an argument?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Have you ever witnessed a four hour closing argument?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Like you know, I've had obviously some experiences, and I
feel like nothing lasted more than thirty minutes, and certainly
when you watch a movie or a TV show it's
like ten minutes. So four hours that will be interesting
if they actually do take all that time. That's why
I thought maybe they might tag team. They've got a
team of lawyers on both sides, so maybe each lawyer
has a different section that they're going to present.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Because also, wouldn't that make it a little bit more
interesting for the juror to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
You have to you'd be like zoning out if the
same person just stood up there for a four hour monologue,
even if it was fascinating, riveting stuff about baby oil
and freak offs, still at a certain point you glaze over.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Okay, if this is correct. I just decided to check
closing arguments OJ Simpson four days.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What I'm what? I'm looking at it wild? I am again.
This is a quick Google search.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Folks, four days for closing argument for.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Days closing arguments in OJ trial days one through three. Wow,
recap length of closing arguments four days, length of deliberations
less than four hours.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That was in the OJ case.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
That's why.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Not crazy. But yeah, it's so we're sitting here talking
about four hours.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Okay, So I guess that's quick and to the point.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So yes, But we will continue to monitor everything happening
in that Lower Manhattan courtroom. We appreciate you listening and
coming along with us to get the latest on what's
happening in the Didy trial.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
But thank you for being with us, and we hope
you all have a wonderful Tuesday.
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's Tuesday, June twenty fourth. We are in the seventh
week of testimony in the Diddy trial, and as we speak,
the final witness of the trial is on the stand.
Welcome to this Ditty update edition of Amy and TJ
and Robes has been seven weeks. It's weird to say
this is the last guy where're going to hear from.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's right, and right now he is being cross examined
by Ditty's defense attorneys, and once that cross examination is over,
that's it. It's it's hard to imagine, but yes, the
defense says it will rest. It is not calling any
witnesses to the stand. So what we're hearing from this
homeland security agent is the end of the evidence for
(00:42):
the jurors to consider.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Are they going out I don't know, with a bang
with a third I don't know, because there have been
so many explosive witnesses and explosive testimony that it seems
like a guy going through hotel receipts, some text messages,
some travel itineraries, like boring stuff, but is important stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I think.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Honestly, if you look at what the prosecution presented on
Friday and yesterday, it was kind of boring. He was
connecting the dots. He was saying, did he paid for this?
Did he paid for that? But now with the defense
cross examining him, I think it's a little bit more
interesting because they are actually reading text messages between Ditty
and Jane right now, and also between Jane and an escort,
(01:27):
and I found it pretty interesting how much she took
control of coordinating and then also praising and talking about
how much she enjoyed having sex with the escort and
telling Diddy that she wanted to have some alone time
with him, some one on one time with him. She
said she hadn't actually been with him, she said selfishly,
(01:49):
I don't know what that means in five months. That's
interesting to me that pretty much their intimacy was her
having sex with other men and him watching it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But she seemed excited about it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Some of these text messages certainly are massively favorable for
the defense. She said, I haven't stopped thinking about it.
It just gets better and better. That's what Jane texted
to Diddy, and then she texted to the escort. This
was one for the books, so it didn't sound like
somebody who was coerced or somebody who didn't want to
be there, or someone who felt like they had to
(02:20):
be there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So before this guy even got on the stand today
to start the day, there was a significant delay before
we even got to some of these text messages because
they had to fight over what text messages they would
even be allowed to enter. I believe by most of
the estimates people in the court room seemed like anyway
from a thirty to forty five minute delay after nine
am in getting to the.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Stand of that field.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
What about right, Yes, because the attorneys were arguing, that's
the right, debate.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Debated, they were debated, Well, they still argue too.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes, they were debating and arguing in front of the
judge over text messages they wanted to have entered into
testimony and entered into evidence. And there were several objections
by the prosecution, in particular to some of Cassie ventor
refines text messages to Ditty. In particular, there was one
that the defense wanted to submit in which she was
(03:12):
talking about wanting to have sex, to wanting to be
with him, wanting and they wanted to enter this to
show look she was initiating this, she wanted this. The
prosecution objected, and the judge sustained the objection because the
judge even said, she was talking about one on one time.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, she was talking about having sex with Ditty, And
I think that's really clear, and she's made that clear
that's all she wanted, and that she was tolerating or
at worst being coerced into having sex with other men
just so she could try and get eventually, ultimately alone
time with Ditty.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So she will, and it makes sense she would be
excited or wanting to be with her man one on one,
and the judge saw that, so he said, absolutely, that
objection is sustained. You're not going to be able to
use that one. But then there were three others at
least that they were trying to get interered, and the
prosecution objected, but he overruled those objections because she was
talking about baby oil, she was talking about some other
(04:07):
things that seemed to show that she was a willing
participant and initiated some of this stuff. So the defense
lost on that one text message, but they won on
all of these others that they are going to be
able to present.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
And of course this is all the defenses, I mean,
this is their case. They might not be calling any
witnesses of their own, but this is their case to
prove to the jury. They are saying that everything that
happened was consensual, that Jane and Cassie were both willing participants,
and in some cases, if you look at these text messages,
not just willing, but excited and anticipatory of what happened.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And then even in the aftermath of.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Some of these freak offs, they were talking about how
great it was, how amazing it was. So they have
certainly cast some doubt and in terms of motive or
why or how this all came about why these women
were participating.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
What is that good enough?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
What you described there? Is that good enough to say
for them? The way they explain that is, hey, yes,
of course they were saying that to Diddy because they
felt this is what he wanted, this is what they
had to do. That seems to be always the comeback
that none of that was authentic. They were performing for him,
even in the text message.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Then couldn't you argue that how would did he ascertain
the difference between the two.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
If he's being told this?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
They did argue that, right, I mean, if he's being
told by these women that they're excited about it and
that they want it, and that afterwards they were happy
about it and wanted more of it. How is he
supposed to know that they're just performing for him so
that they can be with him. That doesn't really make
a lot of sense to me. I mean, it looks
to me.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Again. I'll reiterate no legal expert here.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But man, I think the defense has done an amazing
job in all of their cross examinations and certainly even today,
showing the jurors that there is some doubt in terms
of whether or not these women were forced to participate
in these freak offs. I think that there is definitely doubt.
Can you hear their own words in real time of
when this was all going on.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Wasn't it a big thing earlier in the trial about
whether or not I think it was Cassie vent Or
Fine who was saying she needed to be on drugs
for these free calls like she does. No way she
could just she had to numb herself. But one of
the objections this morning was over a text message that
Cassie vent Or final Fine had between with her and Didty,
in which she was asked can she do the freak
(06:26):
off without the drugs. Her response was, yes, the judge
overruled the objection to that text. That is going to
be able to submit into evidence. So that was a
big deal for a while. This is the only way
I could get through. And now the jury is being told,
Oh so she could, in clear conscience and right mind
(06:47):
participate and she's saying it here.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And she texted that in real time. She texted it.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And again, how is Diddy supposed to know that if
it's true she was lying about it, if she actually
really couldn't do it without drugs, how's he supposed to
know she's lying to him when she says she could
do it without drugs. And yeah, those texts are incredibly
damning and it undermines a lot of the testimony that
we heard from both Cassie and Jane while they were
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And so Jane has been the heart a lot of
the heart a lot of the conversation this morning with
this Homeland Security agent.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I didn't expect him.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
He's been out this as what Friday, Yeah, they knew. Yeah,
I thought he's gonna be kind of a throwaway, and
he's been up there and incredibly important but some of
the text messages, so many of them are focused on
Jane and there back and forth, and some of the
the defense, of course the cross examination, now the prosecution
presented different text messages, but now these are painting a
(07:44):
wildly different picture of a woman who was giddy.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, one a good word.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
That's a very I was trying to find the word
when I was saying excited or anticipatory, but giddy.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Giddy is a very good word.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And they also were just putting up messages where Jane
was telling it how much she loved him and that
she would not take him for granted. I mean this,
that's if the motivation is love, how is that coercion?
I mean, that's what it seems like to me when
I when I hear even the testimony from these two women.
But certainly these text messages that the defense is pointing
out and having read aloud to me as a layman,
(08:19):
it seems like these women were motivated by love and
desire and maybe even some money.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Maybe even some money, but that's that was their choice.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
They wanted to they wanted to be able to live
a different kind of lifestyle, so that all seems like
off benefit to them that and how many other women
have done things that they didn't want to do because
they love demand. I mean, I think that's just a
common thing that has happened. Does that mean a crime
was committed. Does that mean that someone needs to go
to prison for the rest of their lives?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, that okay, And I just want to make sure
you're saying that as far as what the jurors might have.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Correct, correct, I'm thinking about this. No, no, no, no, I'm
not saying that.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I'm saying I think, well, I do think that most
women can put themselves in that position.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I actually it'll be so interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
To see if the jurors do decide to speak or
at least talk about why they made their decisions, but
like how it falls not just between black and white
or race, but gender and as a woman. You know, Look,
I was disgusted and appalled and hearing and seeing all
of this and just feeling so badly for these women
who are giving this gut wrenching testimony and putting themselves
(09:25):
and their reputations on the line, having been forced to
watch humiliating videos of sexually explicit acts that they were committing.
So I was definitely wanting to be team team women.
But hearing all of these other text messages, I can
kind of see it in a human experience, and I'm
(09:45):
sure there's regret and I'm sure there's anger, But where
was their responsibility in participating? And that is where I
think a lot of jurors, as human beings and maybe
even as women, can.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Say, oh, sound they were love sick.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Sounds like they really just wanted to be with him
and they would do anything they could to be with him.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Does that mean there was a crime?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You're saying that Their question is not a legal one
but almost an emotional one. It sounds like they're Obviously
emotions come into any jury deliberation. But all these jury
instructions and all these lee lees in the back and forth,
he was like, all right, let's follow the law. But
this might simply come down to whether or not they
believe these women, whether or not they believe that they
(10:31):
were part time. I asked you this the other day.
I think, can you be a part time victim if
the other part of the time you're a willing participant?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yes? I think the answer to that is yes.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, so that's the guy. We get past that.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So then let's go with the part when they were
possibly a victim. Can you say, I mean, how much
doubt is someone going to have in their head in
that jury room? Is that what they're having to really
decide whether or not these women were willing participants?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What was in their heart?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Was it about love that yes?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Or were they forced because.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
There's that line.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Coercion for I mean, it's it's so tough.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
It's so tough now and now that we've heard all
of the testimony and we've really seen Ditty's lawyers be
excellent in terms of where they took their questioning, where
they took their cross examination, it's cast a shadow of
doubt for me, I mean, just as someone who's been
watching it for sure, this one's tough.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
To our point.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
One of the text messages April twenty twenty two, I
even wrote a note to myself fear oh shit when
I saw this, and just that was the note thing.
Oh but and this is what Jane wrote to Ditty
in April twenty twenty two. Baby, I want to make
love to you. I haven't selfishly had you to myself
for five months. I'm fine with the other stuff, but
(12:03):
I really just need you right now. Diddy's response, Okay,
whatever you want. That sounds like a couple. That sounds
like a relationship, That sounds like an understanding. That eden
sounds like her telling him what we've been doing is cool.
Can I just have this? And the follow up to
this sure enough they had some alone time.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That's a tough.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Exchange, man, that really is that is incredibly damning. I
would think to the prosecution's contention that this was coercion,
that doesn't sound like coercion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I'm fine with the other stuff, but I really just
need you right now. His response was, Okay, whatever you want.
How I don't know what the prosecution. I don't know
if they're going to get up and say anything. They
get a chance to redirect with this witness, I don't
know if they're going to try to take that on
or not. But my word, that is just a totally
(12:56):
different picture.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And the one that I just mentioned it, But the
one that really stood out to me was when and
it's it's Tenny Garagos who is doing the cross examination
right now, but when she had the Homeland Security agent
read aloud the text messages between Ditty and Jane and
(13:20):
an escort, So they were all there texting, and Jane
text combs about the freak cops about having sex with
an escort that the prosecution is maintaining. She was cool,
worce to do. It just gets better and better, and
she's telling ditty this. You know, it's so fascinating because
before we had cell phones and text messages. Imagine how
(13:41):
much more difficult this trial would be. But these text
messages tell stories that you can't right, he.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Would be not guilty.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's several years ago. You wouldn't have all this evidence, right,
That is so weird to think about. You would not
have this. It would just he says. She said, that's
all the option they would have at the time. That
is I never stop to think about this. Whole thing
has been about interactions and video and surveillance and electronics,
and it's.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
All iPads about modern technology.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And you can try to make it look one way,
but then when the defense shines a light on the
other text messages, it the fuller picture is around. I mean,
I do think this gives the jury the best possible
vantage point other than actually being there and witnessing it
in the moment. It's kind of close because not only
look they yesterday. According to the Homeland Security Agent, they
(14:34):
found fifty video files just in a pretty short period
of time.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I believe that was the one that it was like
five days before Christmas one.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yes, yes, it was December of twenty twenty one, I believe.
And they showed the jurors two of them. So, I mean,
this is wild. It's as close as you can get
to being there in the room with them and then
hearing how each party felt afterwards and beforehand, with text
messages accompanying these videos.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Can you imagine if this trial was allowed to be
on camera on TV, they couldn't think about the Oja trial,
thinking about even the Amber heard Johnny depth thing that
people were locked to. If this were on camp, we
could sit and watch this on TV every day, but.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
They have to blur everything out. You couldn't have that audio, some.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Of the language.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
It's not for TV.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Oh my god. I wouldn't miss a second of it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Maybe HBO I would have been captivated.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I wouldn't have missed them.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Whether you want to admit it or not, you everyone
would be watching this.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Don't know how this one doesn't feel necessarily that voyeuristic
to me. I suppose it is and there's a celebrity nature,
but that's so many things having like real societal issues
like we mentioned of race, of class, of power of man, woman,
of me too, of right relationships, of coersions, so many
fine lines, and there's so many things that I hope
we do discuss all of us after this trial. But
(16:04):
it was such a I guess it was such a cultural,
a societal event versus just a celebrity one, and that's
probably a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I know it's salacious and for a lot of folks
and the stuff, but I don't pay attention to a
lot of the stuff and the social media we're on.
I know people probably saying some pretty nasty things about
baby oil.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And all those jokes and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But this has given us all a chance to have
some pretty important conversations.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, this is about the music industry, This is about
the hip hop culture. This is about you know, where
is the line between yes and maybe what's the gray area?
What's a crime what's not? I mean, and that will
always be in any in any trial, in any case.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
An issue of.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And there's no rape charge here, but whether or not
you were forced to have sex or not have sex.
That has always been one of the most difficult crimes
to prove ever, because typically it is he said, she said,
And how do you know who said yes, who said no,
who wanted to who didn't. It's a very very delicate
issue that you know, this trial, there's so many ripple
(17:15):
effects that will happen based on what the outcome is,
What the jury decides, what the verdict is, could affect
whether cases come forward again, whether victims come forward again,
whether people feel empowered to do what they want because
someone got away with something. You know, is this will
have long standing, a long standing impact on future cases.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and what's going to happen with I mean, we
have we considered the possibility that this man could walk
out of their freeman, What that's going to look like? Man,
what that's going to mean. Have we considered what it
looks like if he gets kind of a lesser charge.
Have we considered what looks like if they decide to
put him in jail for.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
The rest of his life. I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No, there is no right or wrong. I just don't
know how we react to all those scenarios. Him walking
out in the front of that courthouse. I can't imagine.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
We haven't seen him since the rest.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We have not laid eyes on him.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
We've got court sketch artists renderings of him.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I was just looking. Maybe I'm talking about this earlier.
I'm so tired.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I just see one of the artists drawings of the
Homeland Security agent that's on the stand. They all it
looks like Reggie Miller to me from the Indiana Pasers.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm big xalf to y'all.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I'm we're sketch artists. I have noticed, and I'm sure
they're phenomenal at their jobs. And I'm not trying to
knock any of them there. I think there are three
of them, but they all the people in the court
room all look ghoulish to me.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
That's the best way I can describe.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Look have you ever.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I don't know who's considered a great court remark, but
it's they're doing this so quickly in the heat of
them all.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Things are moving so fast, So I I really do
give them credit. They're putting together this rendition in moments.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
It's just, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I think that's so impressive that they're able to do.
But no, it's not supposed to be the Mona.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Lisa every time or like some exact science. There is
some creative license being taken place.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I just the one takeaway is that Sean Combs has
a lot of gray hair that I never realized he did.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We all do, any.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Dude, any black man you see over forty five with
a black head of hair as gray as shit. Okay,
I'm graying. I'm a full gray yet, but I'm graying.
Oh god, yeah, yes, grow the beard out. My beard
be full gray?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Would it really?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's insane? Oh yes, we're all stopped.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
He's fifty five, the jet black hair, like stop, I
love you, but come on.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Man, Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Yes, So you
know we this is this is it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
The defense might present or enter into evidence a few
exhibits or items, and then tomorrow the prosecution and the
defense will meet with the judge to discuss jury instructions,
and then it looks like we will have They said,
I don't know how they know this, but I guess
both the defense and the prosecution have four hours each
(20:10):
or their anticipatory is that what it is? Okay, so
four hours each to present their case. So that will
be full day on Thursday, and that will be fascinating.
I actually am really anticipating what they're going to say
and how they're gonna leave, what they're gonna leave the
jurors with, what their final final thoughts are.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And yes, we did four hours. That's a lot. God,
do different different attorneys take different parts of it? I
imagine you know.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
What I'm not used to.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I would say no, from the real cases I remember,
I don't remember them tag teaming.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Have you ever an argument?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Have you ever witnessed a four hour closing argument?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Like you know, I've had obviously some experiences, and I
feel like nothing lasted more than thirty minutes, and certainly
when you watch a movie or a TV show it's
like ten minutes. So four hours that will be interesting
if they actually do take all that time. That's why
I thought maybe they might tag team. They've got a
team of lawyers on both sides, so maybe each lawyer
has a different section that they're going to present.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Because also, wouldn't that make it a little bit more
interesting for the juror to be listening to?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
You have to you'd be like zoning out if the
same person just stood up there for a four hour monologue,
even if it was fascinating, riveting stuff about baby oil
and freak offs, still at a certain point you glaze over.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Okay, if this is correct. I just decided to check
closing arguments OJ Simpson four days.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What I'm what? I'm looking at it wild? I am again.
This is a quick Google search.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Folks, four days for closing argument for.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Days closing arguments in OJ trial days one through three. Wow,
recap length of closing arguments four days, length of deliberations
less than four hours.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That was in the OJ case.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
That's why.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Not crazy. But yeah, it's so we're sitting here talking
about four hours.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Okay, So I guess that's quick and to the point.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So yes, But we will continue to monitor everything happening
in that Lower Manhattan courtroom. We appreciate you listening and
coming along with us to get the latest on what's
happening in the Didy trial.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
But thank you for being with us, and we hope
you all have a wonderful Tuesday.
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