July 3, 2025 • 19 mins
Anyone else feel torn by the Diddy verdict? Was this a victory for Diddy and a loss for women? There are so many opinions in the aftermath of Wednesday’s split verdict. Amy and T.J. reveal where they stand on whether justice was served and where we go from here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, that folks, Amy a TJ. Here. We're actually joining
you just mid conversation. We have been sitting here going
back and forth for about twenty minutes about what we
wanted to talk about in this episode. Meanwhile, we just
recorded a pretty good episode that wasn't recorded that would
have been great if we were rolling on it. But
we don't know what to do, folks, We're torn. I
(00:24):
think we're recording this now, day after day after the verdicts,
and that we're digesting it robes now and you and
I have been going back and forth about what we
make of Diddy, what we make of victims, what we
make now going forward, of how we're supposed to view victims,
and the way you put it robes any role they
(00:48):
do play in the position they end up in, and
as it does that make it any less of a crime. Actually,
this is a mess.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It is because I think, look, did he might be
the only winner from yesterday's verdict and he's still behind
bars and he's going to serve some time. But I
think everyone else lost something. And I know if you
go online and you google reaction to the Diddy verdict,
you'll see and hear from a lot of women's advocacy groups,
me too movements, victims advocates, and they all are well,
(01:19):
many of them are outraged. They feel like this is
set back victims' rights, This set back an opportunity for
women to feel free and comfortable to talk about what
happened to them, to even seek charges, to go to police,
to speak out about.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We can't argue all right? Are they right?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Do they feel silenced after this because he was not
convicted of the crimes against the women who claim that
they suffered under.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
His vis don't we all and shouldn't we all share
in their outrage? Should we all share in at least
being in some even if it's not outrage, but in
agreement that it's some kind of setback on such a
high profile case, when there's such a high profile abuser
that we have witnessed literally on video, that seemingly has
(02:11):
gotten away with something.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So here's my take, and this is what we were discussing. Yes,
you're right, it seems like he got away with it. Yes,
it seems like he got away with it. That he
only was convicted for transporting mail escorts across state lines
to have paid sex with his then girlfriends and it
seems like he avoided facing punishment for what we all
(02:34):
saw witness and what he even admitted to. Yes, when
it came to violence against Cassie, violence against Jane, but
that was the prosecution who created the situation that we're
now all in where we feel defeated or deflated expectations.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
They set the expectation.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Because if here was my issue the whole time, and
seeing how it all unfolded, I actually feel even more
angered by it.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Why in God's name.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I understand there'll be a legal reason and a political reason,
but come on, why couldn't Diddy have just been charged
with the crimes he actually committed, which was assault, domestic violence,
illegal drug use. Those were things that he admitted. Those
(03:20):
were things that were absolutely provable, beyond the shadow of
a doubt, not just reasonable doubt. And those were things
that the defense said, yeah, guilty is charged. Why was
he not charged with those crimes? Because if he was
charged with those crimes, and that's what people were so
upset about, obviously, when they saw that video of Cassie
(03:40):
venture Fine being physically assaulted under a surveillance video, when
several people testified to personally witnessing egregious acts of assault
and violence? Why was he not charged for all of
those numerous times that were well documented.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
If he was charged with that, he would have.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Either pled guilty to those or he would have been convicted.
And then wouldn't we all feel good as women and
as women advocates that he was charged and convicted or
at least paying his dues for those crimes.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I agree, we just can't make sense of we know
and we have seen now what by all intents and purposes,
has been described as a as a monster some of
the behavior. And I don't think any of us don't
believe the stories that have about these women.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Too many people saw too many things, and you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Could talk about intentions and if they were there because
they wanted to and all, but what happened happened awful,
awful stuff. Nobody is saying did he is a good dude?
But how are we now? And that's what we say,
we are torn? How are we supposed to reconcile? I
think did he should be in jail for the crimes
(04:59):
I've heard described, But at the same time I can
be comfortable with the verdict that is going to keep
him out of jail for a long long time. That's
the torn part of you want the guy to be
in jail, but not for what you all charged him for,
because it doesn't make sense that a guy who was
(05:21):
a Look, I know, the shirts were cute and everything outside,
what was it? A Freako is not a Rico some
of the T shirts they were selling outside at the jailhouse.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
But that's what that kind of sums it up well.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
In one T shirt, Freeco is not a Rico.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Wow, And honestly it's catchy and it's true. And I
think that's what's feeling off for so many folks. And
we can all point fingers here, there and everywhere at
who was the bad guy, who was wrong, who did this?
And whether or not Cassie and Jane were actual I mean, yes,
they were victims of violence, they were victory of assault.
(06:01):
But in terms of all of the things the prosecution
was trying to prove and say about Didy and his
enterprise and his co conspirators and his racketeering and conspiracy charges,
that all just felt like a false narrative that they
were trying. They were overreaching, They were trying to put
this guy away for life.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Why not just charge him with what he actually did.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And folks will argue that the victims didn't come forward,
they didn't come forward in time, and all of those things.
But at the same time, the federal government isn't going
to go after Sean Diddy Combs for domestic.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Violence, then why not the state of Florida, Then why
not the state of New York? Then why not the
state of California? Where is their responsibility?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Again, we covered this a whole bunch. Did we hear
one report of one person calling the police on Sean
Diddy Combs? I think the night of the Kid Cutty incident?
Who call he called? It was a break in in
my house. I think that was it. But nobody ever,
in all the times, all the beatings, and all the
(07:06):
people witnessed, nobody ever called the police to say, hey,
Sean Combs is over here beating the hell out of
his girlfriend. So we talk about now an outrage and
people upset and the system has failed. Those jurors failed
these women. We started counting when this trial started, how
many people failed these women because so many people knew
(07:30):
what was happening. From a security guard at a hotel,
a security guard's wife even knew what was happening.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
There was a long list, Cassie Ventur's own mother, her mom, nurse, stylist,
her makeup artist, and we.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Want it's this person's fault and this person did it
wrong and they got it wrong, and they shouldn't have
charged this and that. But there is so much and
I hope we do keep talking about it. It's so
much responsibility we all bear in all of this, and
how we talk about it in joke about baby oil
all damn day on social media. It contributes to this
atmosphere where become almost to sensitized to what this was.
(08:08):
This was a case about monstras' violence against women that
became something we couldn't understand from a legal standpoint.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And further complicating this to your point that no woman,
and not even the victims themselves, but all of the
people around them who knew who claimed to be in
fear of Diddy. And I'm not saying that wasn't true,
but that was what they said. That was part of
the reason why they didn't come forward. They were afraid
of him. And there were people who just wanted to
be around him and with him and liked the financial
(08:42):
perks that they got from being with him, working for him,
or at least being in his circle. So there were
a lot of different motivations, but a lot of this
is and was, and the only reason why we're talking
about it is because of money. Money is the reason
why did he end it up in court Because Cassi,
(09:04):
even to Refine, filed that lawsuit, and if he had
just settled with her before.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That day went by, the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Was filed, federal officials got wind of it, saw what
she alleged, and then pursued it with an investigation.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But this was ultimately about money.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
This wasn't about justice, This wasn't about the greater good,
This wasn't about making sure that Diddy could never or
would never do this to another woman. This was about money.
And so that also further complicates this conversation. I know,
and I understand how difficult, well I don't understand. I
can imagine how difficult it was for Cassi even to refine,
to get on that stand and to testify to these
(09:43):
horrific things that happened to her and that she participated in.
But she would never have been on that stand if
she hadn't been seeking money in the first place. And
a lot of folks. Then that just draws into question
the motivation and.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Where her complicity lies.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It just it complicates this whole issue of the me
too movement and why women do what they do and
when and how and why they come forward. It just
it creates I feel like, if anything, things got greater,
well things got more confusing.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Then take that on. If somebody would response to you,
who gives a damn? She's a victim because she went
through what she went through, even if she didn't come
forward as a victim herself. It doesn't take away from
and it shouldn't change anything about the conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I agree that she is a victim regardless, Yes, without
a doubt. What it does is it makes it much
more difficult in a court to prove anything. And that
is the problem. It's about being able to prove something. Unfortunately,
(10:59):
it's yes anything, any sort of Look, the assault was
not he said, she said.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It was proven.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
But in terms of coercion, in terms of whether or
not she was able to say no, In terms of
whether or not she was kidnapped or coerced or forced
into doing acts she didn't want to commit, that's all
very difficult to prove when it began with a civil
lawsuit that involved tens of millions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Okay, this is this is when I thought, man, we
should just hit record and start talking, because you pointed
this out, and it is for me the point you
were just making the biggest what if? Ever? What if
when Cassie, even terrified, went to Diddy and said, I
(11:49):
have this book. You can buy the rights to it
for twenty million dollars, sign an NDA, You'll never hear
from me again. If he would have just done that
on the spot, she would have been obligated to not
speak about it ever publicly. And would we have ever
(12:09):
found out about any of this about Sean Diddy Combs.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't believe right now, Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Could he have continued in his monstrous ways and finally
messed with the lack of a better term, the wrong woman.
Absolutely that's possible. But he had spent decades grooming women,
grooming women, picking women who perhaps he found of a
certain temperament. I believe he spoke about Cassie. He got
them young, he said, she's mouldible. I got her exactly
(12:38):
where I want her. So he was grooming women he
knew to find them where to find them and at
what age perhaps even to find them, so he knew
what he was doing. But I think it could possibly
have happened years down the line that the wrong you know,
he picked the wrong woman who decided to speak up
and speak out and wasn't going to take that. But
short of that, no, I think he would have been
(12:58):
able to keep doing what he was doing. So, yes,
I understand you can look at it and say, regardless
of how it came to light, regardless if it was
about money initially, thank god it did come to light
because this man needed to be behind bars, and I.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Truly believe that. I believe Diddy belongs behind bars.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But the person at the center of this, and again,
this was the point I didn't just stop and think
about until you hit me with it a few minutes ago,
was Cassievento. Refine did not want this to come out.
She did not want the world to find out about Diddy, initially,
at least as long as she.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Got paid, because she didn't want the world to find
out what she did and what she participated in. And
I understand that, and so how much of it is regret? Yes, again,
want to make it crystal clear, it's not okay that
she was abused and that she was assaulted, and that's
all like, that's not.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Even up for debate.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
But in terms of the freak offs, in terms of
all of that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
That's.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's something that she did participate in, sometimes maybe not
willingly but other times yes, And that is in and
of itself embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So what has happened now? And I guess it has been
the trial that we have now turned to examining the victim.
Isn't this what we always complain about that we examine
the victim as if their complicated background makes the crimes
against them any less egregious. That cannot be the case,
and that maybe is a problem in this conversation because
so much has been exposed, if you will, about what
(14:35):
the girlfriends essentially were getting out of the relationship. Now,
one argument can be made they were held hostage. Essentially,
they were under his power, and they were coursed as
the word continues to be used, but in just generally
as a just watching it as a human being, you
(14:56):
can't help but think that obviously it played a role
in that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Of course, And yes, because no matter what the law is,
no matter what your jury instructions were from the judge,
You're still a human being who's lived a certain amount
of experience in life, and you know some of these
basic truths that are just within us all, and so
that had to have played a role in the jury's
decision to not convict Diddy on these more serious charges.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's a reasonable doubt, it is, and I agree with it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And it's so interesting because, having had now twenty four
hours to reflect on the verdicts, I'm actually I'm actually
very much like they aren't the charges I would have
wished he was facing. But I do think the amount
(15:46):
of time he's going to be spending in prison, which
will be at least another year beyond the nine months
he's already served, I think it would be safe to say,
and maybe even a little bit more, you know, say
he gets another even two years. There needed to be
some sort of consequence and punishment for what he did.
(16:08):
I don't know what his time would have been behind bars,
to be honest, I don't know what state charges of
assault and domestic violence, and I don't think it ever
rose to the level of attempted murder, but certainly these
were serious violent crimes. I don't know what kind of
time he would have been looking at from that kind
of a charge, but he he needs to be behind bars.
(16:30):
He is a dangerous, violent person who needs to pay
for his crimes. Without a doubt, I just don't love
what he was charged with, and I don't love what
he was convicted with, but I'm okay with the ultimate
end of it, with the result of it. I guess
that he's behind bars for a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And you just explained the whole in one sentence. There
what being torn and this thing means to be happy
he's going to jail, to be happy with the verdict,
but be unhappy they was charged with this in the
first place, to be unhappy that he's not going to
jail for longer for doing what we all saw him do.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's so who's responsible? I mean, the prosecution has to
bear a lot of that responsibility.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And the question is, now that we've seen what happened in.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Court, will prosecutors, will federal prosecutors, even state and local
dace will they take notes from this case?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Will they say, hey, let's actually.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Just understand the jurors are smart, real people who get it,
and they understand when we're trumping up charges or we're
creating charges to try and get around something.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
To not actually.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Charge people with what they with the crimes they committed.
That would just go a long way. I think people
are afraid to do politicians and obviously a lot of
these folks are elected officials. But isn't that our biggest complaint.
They aren't transparent. They don't say I'm sorry, they don't
say what actually is.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
They try to create the.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Smoke and mirror show, and it kind of treats all
of us like we're stupid. And I feel like that's
kind of a little bit what happened.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Here, And apparently twelve people said, hey, we can't be
fooled by it. That's I don't know. I just I
hate that the conversation is going towards this idea, which
is a legitimate one, that this was a loss for women,
that this is once again a man getting away with
(18:24):
crimes he committed. On the other hand, as an argument,
he wasn't charged for the actual trial and we saw
him commit. And somewhere in the middle there is this
racketeering and this sex trafficking that is just hard, certainly
for twelve jurors to reconcile. When I see a domestic abuser,
(18:46):
I don't know how he translates to the CEO of
a criminal enterprise.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
You just nailed it and that's why we're torn.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
But at the end of the day, it does feel
like some justice was served and just curious, Hey, if
you guys want to jump on Amy and TJ podcast
our Instagram page, we would love to hear where you
all land on this and how you feel about the
verdict and wondering if you're just as torn as we are.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
But we appreciate you listening.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
As always, I'm Amy roboch On behalf of my partner
t J.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Holmes. We hope you have a wonderful day and a
wonderful holiday on the fourth of July tomorrow
Hey, that folks, Amy a TJ. Here. We're actually joining
you just mid conversation. We have been sitting here going
back and forth for about twenty minutes about what we
wanted to talk about in this episode. Meanwhile, we just
recorded a pretty good episode that wasn't recorded that would
have been great if we were rolling on it. But
we don't know what to do, folks, We're torn. I
(00:24):
think we're recording this now, day after day after the verdicts,
and that we're digesting it robes now and you and
I have been going back and forth about what we
make of Diddy, what we make of victims, what we
make now going forward, of how we're supposed to view victims,
and the way you put it robes any role they
(00:48):
do play in the position they end up in, and
as it does that make it any less of a crime. Actually,
this is a mess.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It is because I think, look, did he might be
the only winner from yesterday's verdict and he's still behind
bars and he's going to serve some time. But I
think everyone else lost something. And I know if you
go online and you google reaction to the Diddy verdict,
you'll see and hear from a lot of women's advocacy groups,
me too movements, victims advocates, and they all are well,
(01:19):
many of them are outraged. They feel like this is
set back victims' rights, This set back an opportunity for
women to feel free and comfortable to talk about what
happened to them, to even seek charges, to go to police,
to speak out about.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We can't argue all right? Are they right?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Do they feel silenced after this because he was not
convicted of the crimes against the women who claim that
they suffered under.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
His vis don't we all and shouldn't we all share
in their outrage? Should we all share in at least
being in some even if it's not outrage, but in
agreement that it's some kind of setback on such a
high profile case, when there's such a high profile abuser
that we have witnessed literally on video, that seemingly has
(02:11):
gotten away with something.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So here's my take, and this is what we were discussing. Yes,
you're right, it seems like he got away with it. Yes,
it seems like he got away with it. That he
only was convicted for transporting mail escorts across state lines
to have paid sex with his then girlfriends and it
seems like he avoided facing punishment for what we all
(02:34):
saw witness and what he even admitted to. Yes, when
it came to violence against Cassie, violence against Jane, but
that was the prosecution who created the situation that we're
now all in where we feel defeated or deflated expectations.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
They set the expectation.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Because if here was my issue the whole time, and
seeing how it all unfolded, I actually feel even more
angered by it.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Why in God's name.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I understand there'll be a legal reason and a political reason,
but come on, why couldn't Diddy have just been charged
with the crimes he actually committed, which was assault, domestic violence,
illegal drug use. Those were things that he admitted. Those
(03:20):
were things that were absolutely provable, beyond the shadow of
a doubt, not just reasonable doubt. And those were things
that the defense said, yeah, guilty is charged. Why was
he not charged with those crimes? Because if he was
charged with those crimes, and that's what people were so
upset about, obviously, when they saw that video of Cassie
(03:40):
venture Fine being physically assaulted under a surveillance video, when
several people testified to personally witnessing egregious acts of assault
and violence? Why was he not charged for all of
those numerous times that were well documented.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
If he was charged with that, he would have.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Either pled guilty to those or he would have been convicted.
And then wouldn't we all feel good as women and
as women advocates that he was charged and convicted or
at least paying his dues for those crimes.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I agree, we just can't make sense of we know
and we have seen now what by all intents and purposes,
has been described as a as a monster some of
the behavior. And I don't think any of us don't
believe the stories that have about these women.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Too many people saw too many things, and you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Could talk about intentions and if they were there because
they wanted to and all, but what happened happened awful,
awful stuff. Nobody is saying did he is a good dude?
But how are we now? And that's what we say,
we are torn? How are we supposed to reconcile? I
think did he should be in jail for the crimes
(04:59):
I've heard described, But at the same time I can
be comfortable with the verdict that is going to keep
him out of jail for a long long time. That's
the torn part of you want the guy to be
in jail, but not for what you all charged him for,
because it doesn't make sense that a guy who was
(05:21):
a Look, I know, the shirts were cute and everything outside,
what was it? A Freako is not a Rico some
of the T shirts they were selling outside at the jailhouse.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
But that's what that kind of sums it up well.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
In one T shirt, Freeco is not a Rico.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Wow, And honestly it's catchy and it's true. And I
think that's what's feeling off for so many folks. And
we can all point fingers here, there and everywhere at
who was the bad guy, who was wrong, who did this?
And whether or not Cassie and Jane were actual I mean, yes,
they were victims of violence, they were victory of assault.
(06:01):
But in terms of all of the things the prosecution
was trying to prove and say about Didy and his
enterprise and his co conspirators and his racketeering and conspiracy charges,
that all just felt like a false narrative that they
were trying. They were overreaching, They were trying to put
this guy away for life.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Why not just charge him with what he actually did.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And folks will argue that the victims didn't come forward,
they didn't come forward in time, and all of those things.
But at the same time, the federal government isn't going
to go after Sean Diddy Combs for domestic.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Violence, then why not the state of Florida, Then why
not the state of New York? Then why not the
state of California? Where is their responsibility?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Again, we covered this a whole bunch. Did we hear
one report of one person calling the police on Sean
Diddy Combs? I think the night of the Kid Cutty incident?
Who call he called? It was a break in in
my house. I think that was it. But nobody ever,
in all the times, all the beatings, and all the
(07:06):
people witnessed, nobody ever called the police to say, hey,
Sean Combs is over here beating the hell out of
his girlfriend. So we talk about now an outrage and
people upset and the system has failed. Those jurors failed
these women. We started counting when this trial started, how
many people failed these women because so many people knew
(07:30):
what was happening. From a security guard at a hotel,
a security guard's wife even knew what was happening.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
There was a long list, Cassie Ventur's own mother, her mom, nurse, stylist,
her makeup artist, and we.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Want it's this person's fault and this person did it
wrong and they got it wrong, and they shouldn't have
charged this and that. But there is so much and
I hope we do keep talking about it. It's so
much responsibility we all bear in all of this, and
how we talk about it in joke about baby oil
all damn day on social media. It contributes to this
atmosphere where become almost to sensitized to what this was.
(08:08):
This was a case about monstras' violence against women that
became something we couldn't understand from a legal standpoint.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And further complicating this to your point that no woman,
and not even the victims themselves, but all of the
people around them who knew who claimed to be in
fear of Diddy. And I'm not saying that wasn't true,
but that was what they said. That was part of
the reason why they didn't come forward. They were afraid
of him. And there were people who just wanted to
be around him and with him and liked the financial
(08:42):
perks that they got from being with him, working for him,
or at least being in his circle. So there were
a lot of different motivations, but a lot of this
is and was, and the only reason why we're talking
about it is because of money. Money is the reason
why did he end it up in court Because Cassi,
(09:04):
even to Refine, filed that lawsuit, and if he had
just settled with her before.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That day went by, the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Was filed, federal officials got wind of it, saw what
she alleged, and then pursued it with an investigation.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But this was ultimately about money.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
This wasn't about justice, This wasn't about the greater good,
This wasn't about making sure that Diddy could never or
would never do this to another woman. This was about money.
And so that also further complicates this conversation. I know,
and I understand how difficult, well I don't understand. I
can imagine how difficult it was for Cassi even to refine,
to get on that stand and to testify to these
(09:43):
horrific things that happened to her and that she participated in.
But she would never have been on that stand if
she hadn't been seeking money in the first place. And
a lot of folks. Then that just draws into question
the motivation and.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Where her complicity lies.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It just it complicates this whole issue of the me
too movement and why women do what they do and
when and how and why they come forward. It just
it creates I feel like, if anything, things got greater,
well things got more confusing.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Then take that on. If somebody would response to you,
who gives a damn? She's a victim because she went
through what she went through, even if she didn't come
forward as a victim herself. It doesn't take away from
and it shouldn't change anything about the conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I agree that she is a victim regardless, Yes, without
a doubt. What it does is it makes it much
more difficult in a court to prove anything. And that
is the problem. It's about being able to prove something. Unfortunately,
(10:59):
it's yes anything, any sort of Look, the assault was
not he said, she said.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It was proven.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
But in terms of coercion, in terms of whether or
not she was able to say no, In terms of
whether or not she was kidnapped or coerced or forced
into doing acts she didn't want to commit, that's all
very difficult to prove when it began with a civil
lawsuit that involved tens of millions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Okay, this is this is when I thought, man, we
should just hit record and start talking, because you pointed
this out, and it is for me the point you
were just making the biggest what if? Ever? What if
when Cassie, even terrified, went to Diddy and said, I
(11:49):
have this book. You can buy the rights to it
for twenty million dollars, sign an NDA, You'll never hear
from me again. If he would have just done that
on the spot, she would have been obligated to not
speak about it ever publicly. And would we have ever
(12:09):
found out about any of this about Sean Diddy Combs.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't believe right now, Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Could he have continued in his monstrous ways and finally
messed with the lack of a better term, the wrong woman.
Absolutely that's possible. But he had spent decades grooming women,
grooming women, picking women who perhaps he found of a
certain temperament. I believe he spoke about Cassie. He got
them young, he said, she's mouldible. I got her exactly
(12:38):
where I want her. So he was grooming women he
knew to find them where to find them and at
what age perhaps even to find them, so he knew
what he was doing. But I think it could possibly
have happened years down the line that the wrong you know,
he picked the wrong woman who decided to speak up
and speak out and wasn't going to take that. But
short of that, no, I think he would have been
(12:58):
able to keep doing what he was doing. So, yes,
I understand you can look at it and say, regardless
of how it came to light, regardless if it was
about money initially, thank god it did come to light
because this man needed to be behind bars, and I.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Truly believe that. I believe Diddy belongs behind bars.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But the person at the center of this, and again,
this was the point I didn't just stop and think
about until you hit me with it a few minutes ago,
was Cassievento. Refine did not want this to come out.
She did not want the world to find out about Diddy, initially,
at least as long as she.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Got paid, because she didn't want the world to find
out what she did and what she participated in. And
I understand that, and so how much of it is regret? Yes, again,
want to make it crystal clear, it's not okay that
she was abused and that she was assaulted, and that's
all like, that's not.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Even up for debate.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
But in terms of the freak offs, in terms of
all of that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
That's.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's something that she did participate in, sometimes maybe not
willingly but other times yes, And that is in and
of itself embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So what has happened now? And I guess it has been
the trial that we have now turned to examining the victim.
Isn't this what we always complain about that we examine
the victim as if their complicated background makes the crimes
against them any less egregious. That cannot be the case,
and that maybe is a problem in this conversation because
so much has been exposed, if you will, about what
(14:35):
the girlfriends essentially were getting out of the relationship. Now,
one argument can be made they were held hostage. Essentially,
they were under his power, and they were coursed as
the word continues to be used, but in just generally
as a just watching it as a human being, you
(14:56):
can't help but think that obviously it played a role
in that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Of course, And yes, because no matter what the law is,
no matter what your jury instructions were from the judge,
You're still a human being who's lived a certain amount
of experience in life, and you know some of these
basic truths that are just within us all, and so
that had to have played a role in the jury's
decision to not convict Diddy on these more serious charges.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's a reasonable doubt, it is, and I agree with it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And it's so interesting because, having had now twenty four
hours to reflect on the verdicts, I'm actually I'm actually
very much like they aren't the charges I would have
wished he was facing. But I do think the amount
(15:46):
of time he's going to be spending in prison, which
will be at least another year beyond the nine months
he's already served, I think it would be safe to say,
and maybe even a little bit more, you know, say
he gets another even two years. There needed to be
some sort of consequence and punishment for what he did.
(16:08):
I don't know what his time would have been behind bars,
to be honest, I don't know what state charges of
assault and domestic violence, and I don't think it ever
rose to the level of attempted murder, but certainly these
were serious violent crimes. I don't know what kind of
time he would have been looking at from that kind
of a charge, but he he needs to be behind bars.
(16:30):
He is a dangerous, violent person who needs to pay
for his crimes. Without a doubt, I just don't love
what he was charged with, and I don't love what
he was convicted with, but I'm okay with the ultimate
end of it, with the result of it. I guess
that he's behind bars for a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And you just explained the whole in one sentence. There
what being torn and this thing means to be happy
he's going to jail, to be happy with the verdict,
but be unhappy they was charged with this in the
first place, to be unhappy that he's not going to
jail for longer for doing what we all saw him do.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's so who's responsible? I mean, the prosecution has to
bear a lot of that responsibility.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And the question is, now that we've seen what happened in.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Court, will prosecutors, will federal prosecutors, even state and local
dace will they take notes from this case?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Will they say, hey, let's actually.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Just understand the jurors are smart, real people who get it,
and they understand when we're trumping up charges or we're
creating charges to try and get around something.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
To not actually.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Charge people with what they with the crimes they committed.
That would just go a long way. I think people
are afraid to do politicians and obviously a lot of
these folks are elected officials. But isn't that our biggest complaint.
They aren't transparent. They don't say I'm sorry, they don't
say what actually is.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
They try to create the.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Smoke and mirror show, and it kind of treats all
of us like we're stupid. And I feel like that's
kind of a little bit what happened.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Here, And apparently twelve people said, hey, we can't be
fooled by it. That's I don't know. I just I
hate that the conversation is going towards this idea, which
is a legitimate one, that this was a loss for women,
that this is once again a man getting away with
(18:24):
crimes he committed. On the other hand, as an argument,
he wasn't charged for the actual trial and we saw
him commit. And somewhere in the middle there is this
racketeering and this sex trafficking that is just hard, certainly
for twelve jurors to reconcile. When I see a domestic abuser,
(18:46):
I don't know how he translates to the CEO of
a criminal enterprise.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
You just nailed it and that's why we're torn.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
But at the end of the day, it does feel
like some justice was served and just curious, Hey, if
you guys want to jump on Amy and TJ podcast
our Instagram page, we would love to hear where you
all land on this and how you feel about the
verdict and wondering if you're just as torn as we are.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
But we appreciate you listening.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
As always, I'm Amy roboch On behalf of my partner
t J.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Holmes. We hope you have a wonderful day and a
wonderful holiday on the fourth of July tomorrow
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