August 19, 2025 • 22 mins
Happy 48th Birthday to T.J.! And good news for him and everyone else rounding out their 40s, you’re on your way to what researchers call our happiest year ever. Of course, as Amy and T.J. discuss, that upswing happens only after bottoming out at the unhappiest age of our lives.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
That is Tuesday, August nineteenth, and today is my forty
eighth birthday. And I am told, according to research, that
I just wrapped up the worst year of my life.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Does it feel like to you over the past year
(00:22):
that I've had a bad year, I've been a bad
move that this is a low point for me the
past year.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I think we've had some struggles and I think we've
come out of them pretty swimmingly.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
But it's not a we thing me.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's a youth me. I think you've had. I think
you've had a year that's had some ups and downs.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yea, hey, that's every year.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
No, no, no, we're talking about something specific here, and we
will give you all the exact number, the exact number
when they say we are all at our absolute lowest
at adults. But no, they were saying Rose that as
an adult in terms of my happiness, my happiness, did
you see me bottoming out in happiness this past year?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, I saw you bottoming out truly as a friend.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I think probably in your early forties, like maybe more
like forty four, forty five forty three like that, that
was where I saw you bottoming out, So I actually
think you're on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So mine started earlier.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yes, you're advanced, as you are in most things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
No, this is a.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Different one, but yes, it's it's interesting to see robes
that we There are a lot of people out there
at whatever stage they are in life. You you do
this happiness curve, and I guess it kind of makes sense.
But would you agree, generally speaking, that we all in
the early decades of adulthood, starting at dust essentially twenty,
(01:51):
the happiness starts going down, down, down, down, down, down down,
And they say, forty fifties we bottom out, and then
we finally start getting happier again, fifty sixties, seventies. Does
that make sense to.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You, It does, having lived through some of that. Yes.
They call it a U curve for happiness.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Whereas your peak is kind of round, like your late teens,
early twenties, and then you, yeah, start to go down, down, down,
and then you peak again at seventy and they say
from seventy to eighty six. You start to go down
a little bit at that point too, but you still
it's nice to think, Okay, fine, we're bottoming out right
about now, and then now you're on the uptick back
(02:31):
up to another fun, amazing high similar to that which
you had in your late teens early twenties.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Isn't that discouraging?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Though? Didn't you?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I didn't do as deep of a dive as you
did on the eight what'd you say?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It was?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Seventy seventy is supposed to be your happiest age, like
that's the peak in life.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
In life, the happiest we're ever going to be is
at seventy years old, Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
But the most miserable we're ever going to be is
actually kind of a shocking number.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I guess it's probably why people call it a midlife crisis.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
There have been names for this period in our lives
for generations, and it's been kind of described as a
crazy transition, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Okay, but wait, but it's depressing to be at the
age I am right now and to be told that
the happiest I'm ever going to be is when I
am seventy. Nobody appreciates Who wants that? Who wants to
go through life at this point? At any point? You
telling us that I got to wait into who wants
(03:34):
to hear you know you're on the thirty forty that
I got to wait until then.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
But you know, it's exciting that there's better. I guess
the best is yet to come, there's better days ahead.
That's actually still a really hopeful thing to know that,
what if your happiest day was eighteen, or your happiest
year is twenty, that would be depressing. I don't think
it's depressing at all to think that we have another round,
another season, another era of joy and.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Peace.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I think, really, I think is something that I believe
many people don't realize is actually what we're all looking for.
We're looking for excitement and all of that fun stuff
and the wild ride and adventure. But actually it's peace,
and I think we get that after we've lived enough life.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But don't you think about all the fun things you
wanted to do, The partying you wanted to go do
in Vegas, the trips you wanted to take, the yachts
you wanted to be on, the European vacation.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Are you describing me right now?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Because that you no what I'm saying. All of these
things you would like to experience when when you're young,
when you're beautiful, when you're in love, when you're at
your peak, it seems, at least physically or mentally or
even how you're engaged in the world, it seems like
that's the time you want to be able to enjoy
it all. To think that now I can enjoy it,
but now I'm seventy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
But maybe you appreciate it more if you had all
of those things in your teens and twenties. And yes,
some people do, and you often see them hit depression.
It's kind of like Olympians, right, once you've reached the
peak and the top too soon, what's there left?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And so that is when depression falls into place.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
I think this might just be a natural order that
makes a lot of sense, because if it all happened
too quickly, too soon, I think there would be a
huge deflation that followed. So if you have something still
to look forward to and aspire to, even if you
might not be at your physical prime, you have the
wisdom and the experience to appreciate it. And isn't that
kind of what makes things special when you can appreciate them,
(05:30):
that is what makes the difference.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I was agreeing with you, and all of it I
was just playing devils.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
See I thought I was convincing you. I got all passionate.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
But in our mind.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I wouldn't have agreed with that maybe ten years ago,
but I have a different right experience at this point.
But I think most people might look at that and
think about I don't think our first intuition is to say, oh,
I have something to look forward to. When I hear
that we're all happiest at seventy, I think most people
would think, well, man, what am I missing? Or I
got to wait that long? Or it sounds like so
(06:02):
much of life then is misery.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
You've got to wait that long?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I do think so much of it is expectation, but
it it it also so that can create, you know,
a problem if you think so. I think that is
where the midlife comes into the like the duldrums or
the midlife crisis, or the lowest point in our lives.
I think it comes from having failed expectations. When you're young,
and you're in your late teens and early twenties, you
(06:30):
think about what you will be, could be, might be,
and then when you are in your late forties early fifties,
you realize what you didn't accomplish and what you probably
never will accomplish, and then you get to come to
terms with it, you become at peace with it, and
then you actually get to really appreciate, enjoy what you
do have. You're not focused on what you don't have.
(06:51):
I think a lot of our twenties and thirties and
forties are chasing what.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
We don't have. And once you kind of accept that
what is just is, that's where the real peace and
joy and happiness follows. Oh man, that's undepressing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Fun.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I can tell by your face that that did not
inspire you in any way, that actually depressed you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I get absolutely, of course get what you're saying and that,
but it takes a while to come around to that.
You mentioned that the number might surprise people, the number
they do have one. It's really precise. It's not just
a year. It's down to the decimal of what age,
that we are at our absolute lowest, and that we
are the unhappiest in life. And I just came out
(07:36):
of it not too long ago, but experienced it in
my forty seventh year.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, that's true. Are we giving the number now?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I want to see where this comes from this is
an actually economics professor of research and a David blanche Flower,
but he's been cited for several years now. The research
was back in twenty twenty, but it was huge. Five
hundred thousand people were done in this massive research survey.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
He gave us the answer.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So this is why we have on average robes. What
age are we at our.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Unhappiest forty seven point two?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So what was I doing late October early November last year,
because that would have been my forty seven point two age.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Obviously that is an average.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Like I said, I believe from having known you very
well for the last ten years, I did see you
at a very rock bottom place, and it was a
few years before forty seven point two.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think you have been on the.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Upswing, although we did have some turbulence coming out of that.
But I have heard you describe yourself to people.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Correct me if I'm wrong that you are the happiest
and healthiest you've ever been.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh yeah, the healthiest part is the key, but yeah,
oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And to your point, it late late thirties thirty eight
to forty two was some ugliness. It was some that
was some dark, dark times for me, I would describe
some of that as my darkest and then yes, coming
out forty two, forty three, forty four, Yeah, I'm finally
coming out.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
How old were you when I met you? I'm trying
to remember I was forty one.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Then I must have been twenty four.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You're hilarious.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You were thirty seven, thirty six, thirty seven, Okay, so yes,
I knew you then, but it wasn't until I think
your early forties where I saw you really hit like
you were headed in that direction and then you hit
rock bottom. So yes, I did see that, and I'm
you know, it's I.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
They do say you ebb and you flow.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Obviously it doesn't have, you know, just a straight line
either in either direction.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
But yes, I can.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I can account for my late forties as being absolutely
the most tumultuous of my life for sure, and hitting
rock bottom. Yes, without a doubt, that happened for me
about that exact time.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But it's interesting because.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
There were there was stuff that was going on in
our life outside of correct control, correct, but that is
not what we're talking about in this type survey thing
that was. Now you're speaking of a very specific event,
and that's happening that does not happen to most people
they're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
No, no, you gotta throw that out.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes it was tumultuous, and you're laying forties that had
nothing to do with what those researchers talk about.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You know what, I would actually say that there have
been moments in the last couple of years where it
through a lot of work, and yes, maybe experiences put
me in the position to do deeper dives on my
mental health. But I would say that these last couple
of years have been tough for me. But I now
(10:43):
I genuinely feel like I am on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I feel like I have turned that corner, so to speak,
the you of the happiness curve, because I have genuinely
been a happy person. I think I am naturally happier
than most in terms of just having a natural disposition.
I really have always said I didn't really it's it
takes a lot for me to get low or to
(11:08):
get really depressed or feeling low. So I've appreciated that
and I've recognized that. But when you when I'm not okay,
it's really obvious to me. You know, I've not lived
with that in a way that I have, So I
don't know. I definitely feel like I have come around,
but it is that moment of kind of reckoning what
is my value? And I think when we're younger, we
think our value is what we have, our potential, what
(11:30):
we do for a living, but it's not how.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
We treat people or how we treat ourselves.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
So I do think I have come around to valuing
people and things in life in a way that actually
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So what was your low number?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I really do think it was forty nine?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I really do, well, yes mine, wow, mind much earlier
than you did.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
But that's why we're good, because you know our age difference.
It sinks up now it works perfectly. See it's all
making more sense to me now.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And some of you, you actually robes, hit on it
just a little bit, but there are and once you
say them out loud, it makes sense. Why is it
that it's forty seven? Why is it that it's forty
seven point two? Why is it that it's late forties?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Why is it?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And what is happening in your life now? What has
already happened in your life? They probably put you at
that number. The reasons there are three very specific ones
as to why forty seven point two is your low point?
(12:39):
All right, we continue now with Yes, the birthday boy.
You're not supposed to call yourself then, are you?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I'll call you the birthday boy. I think you can.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Where's the birthday boy.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I don't walk into a room and announce myself. Hey,
the birthday boys here.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I would.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, that's weird, but I would just say, when it
is your birthday, you can kind of do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Why right, Why don't.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You give me that three hundred and sixty four days
of the year and then my birthday out, because then.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It wouldn't be special and birthdays are special.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, it would be special because that's the day I
would behave.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
No, then it wouldn't feel special at all because every
day would be your day.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And it is.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But yeah, we're continuing about this research. Yes, that says
I just had just coming out of the worst year
of my life, because the research said that forty seven
is particular.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
In particular, forty seven.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Point two is the lowest point of happiness in adulthood.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You robe started to reel off some of these reasons
for it and didn't even realize you were doing so.
But when you start to think about the why why
would it be that age you've already said it, go
go ahead. What would you say right now? And it's
not a trick question.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Oh, I would say because because you had expectations that
weren't met, would be the number one thing what you valued,
perhaps you did, you don't own, like what you thought
you needed, you didn't have. You didn't get to.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Your first one. You haven't moved up in life, you
haven't quite made it, or you realize you're never.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Gonna make it right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, exactly, that's one of the reason you have like this.
You got to come to reality about where you are
in your personal and professional life. And this is the
moment a lot of folks don't think I can start
over either my personal life or my professional life. So
I'm stuck with these decisions that I have made.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
That is so that includes if you're not in a
relationship you like, if you're not in a career you like,
it's hard to make a change or to do anything
different to change the course of your life. Also, maybe
because a chapter of maybe your children might be dragging
you down. I don't know if that's a part of
the midlife crisis where you just the responsibilities and the
(14:54):
weight of all of it, told.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
You we were going to get all these This age
group has a tendency to, as you mentioned, taking care
of kids. But this is the age.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Group that's what taking care of parents as well.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Welk in between.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yep, you got two groups who need.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You you to take care of and that is stressful
as hell.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That's part of a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And then I don't know if the thermone would be
anything like health related. Maybe your body is deteriorating or
you're not able to do the things you could before.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I think you actually nailed this one earlier at this
idea of regret, ah, because now you're re examining the
decisions you made that resulted in you being where you
are right now.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Okay, do you have the unfortunate I guess maybe just
perspective of recognizing where you went wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You're seeing the results of your actions and you actually
thinking if I'm not happy here, that's one thing. Now
to double up on that misery. You're actually going back
and saying what if? What if? What if? What if?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Damn?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's tough and this is the age you're doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
That makes a lot of sense, I mean. And then
you get through it, you recalibrate, you learn from your
mistakes instead of just feeling guilty about them, and you
start anew and you start with less guilt, and you
start with feeling responsible for everybody else's feelings and problems,
and it does give you a new sense of freedom.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'm curious, how old do you feel?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
You're forty eight, But if someone were to ask you
how old you feel, what would it be like mentally
and physically?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Mentally I am.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I feel about where I am and maybe even older
because I've just been through a lot. I know a
lot of people have been through a lot, but I've
been blessed to be able to experience a lot in business,
a lot in my personal life. Not all of it's
been good. Someone has been quite awful. But the experience
(16:51):
is to being able to travel, experience of kids, experience.
I've gotten so much of that to where I do feel.
I don't feel mentally immature in any way. Even I
can go back and examine some of the immature things
I have done and see things so differently. So as
far as mentally I'm about on par probably okay.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
So you okay?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
But just if I said how old are you and
you didn't have to think about it, how old?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I don't know, man, you know I should No, I'm
given too much thought. I should have just reacted.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, just react, Oh, I would.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Say, of man, I'm a mid thirty year old guy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Okay, maybe earlier, because I feel fit. I feel good,
I feel healthy. I don't feel challenged necessarily. I've had
an injury, a running injury, but I don't feel challenged right.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
In that way.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So no, I and again as far as I oftentimes
see guys that are my age and I'm like, holy hell,
I don't look like that. We don't look similar, we
don't look like we're in the same age range for
various reasons.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
But I stay fit. So yeah, I think I feel
How old? Would you say? I look okay?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Thirty six? Okay, that's not bad.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
That was kind I thought.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
No, I think that's fair, Thank you, sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
She could have gone earlier.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Though, then you would have known she was lying.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But you asked that question.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Look, why did you were the one telling me that
people were giving Leonardo DiCaprio hill, Yeah, because of the
answer he gave to that question, what's a big deal?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yes, So, Leonardo DiCaprio just turned fifty and he was
being interviewed and this was from another director actually, and
they were discussing, just back and forth from professional conversation
to personal. He asked him, I'm going to ask you
a question. You're going to answer it as quickly as
you can if you didn't know how old you are,
(18:52):
how old are you right now? And DiCaprio responded quickly,
He just said, thirty two. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Talk about why he feels thirty two.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And this was all around him turning fifty and being
reflective about what it feels like to be fifty. And
he even joked and said, I emotionally turned thirty five
last year. But anyway, he said he felt thirty two
seems innocent enough. But folks, yes, this is social media
for you.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
You gotta love it.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
They completely jumped on to ridicule him on social media.
Some of them said more like it's the only way
he could try and justify chasing after girls under the
age of twenty five. That was what someone wrote went that, yeah,
then they said he has a problematic age gap with himself. Yes,
someone else wrote straight man is emotionally immature, groundbreaking stuff.
(19:43):
So yeah, people just got really snarky and unnecessarily cheeky
about it. But I actually feel like that was an
honest answer. I mean, if you asked me, I think
I would. I think thirty six is exactly what I
would say. That's how old I feel. That there's nothing
wrong or mentally both I was. I mean, look like emostly,
(20:03):
I wasn't even thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
From a wisdom perspective. I mean, who I was at
thirty six?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Oh my god, Yes, I'm light years older and wiser
than that person. But just if you ask me how
I feel going out, running, hanging out with friends, just.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Being active, Oh yeah, I feel like I'm in my
late thirties at the oldest. Yeah, and I hope to
stay that way. I want to. I always say I'm
ten to fifteen years younger than I actually am. I
do what do you think I act? I wouldn't say immaturely,
I just act.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I always say that's one of the most attractive things
about you, your childlike xuberant over the simple things. You
literally will skip through the house. Sometimes not because you're
in a hurry to get somewhere and I see you
from you don't know, even though I'm watching you. You're
sliding and running and sliding in the socks across your
playing in the house. It's just little fun. They're childlike,
(21:02):
not because they're immature, but because playful kids have that
type of just zest and just joy about life and
the simple thing.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So yes, thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Well, that's a huge compliment, because there is a playfulness
that I think we lose sometimes as we start stressing
and worrying and being weighed down by responsibility and guilt,
perhaps with all of the what ifs and I should
have and I could have. But yes, if we can
keep that sense of playfulness and idleness and just being
in the moment, that's really what it boils down to.
(21:33):
Can you just be in the moment and find out
how to enjoy right now, not thinking about what you
have to do, what you should have done.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Those are the things that kill us.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, can we go now? Please? Got some party?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, Erd, I just wrapped up the worst year of
my life and I would like to go celebrate it now.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That sounds good. Cheers to you babe, and cheers to
forty eight and being on the upswing of that U
curve of happiness. And thank you all for listening to us.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
I may be Robock alongside J Holmes, have a wonderful ride.
Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
That is Tuesday, August nineteenth, and today is my forty
eighth birthday. And I am told, according to research, that
I just wrapped up the worst year of my life.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Does it feel like to you over the past year
(00:22):
that I've had a bad year, I've been a bad
move that this is a low point for me the
past year.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I think we've had some struggles and I think we've
come out of them pretty swimmingly.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
But it's not a we thing me.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's a youth me. I think you've had. I think
you've had a year that's had some ups and downs.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yea, hey, that's every year.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
No, no, no, we're talking about something specific here, and we
will give you all the exact number, the exact number
when they say we are all at our absolute lowest
at adults. But no, they were saying Rose that as
an adult in terms of my happiness, my happiness, did
you see me bottoming out in happiness this past year?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, I saw you bottoming out truly as a friend.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I think probably in your early forties, like maybe more
like forty four, forty five forty three like that, that
was where I saw you bottoming out, So I actually
think you're on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So mine started earlier.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yes, you're advanced, as you are in most things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
No, this is a.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Different one, but yes, it's it's interesting to see robes
that we There are a lot of people out there
at whatever stage they are in life. You you do
this happiness curve, and I guess it kind of makes sense.
But would you agree, generally speaking, that we all in
the early decades of adulthood, starting at dust essentially twenty,
(01:51):
the happiness starts going down, down, down, down, down, down down,
And they say, forty fifties we bottom out, and then
we finally start getting happier again, fifty sixties, seventies. Does
that make sense to.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You, It does, having lived through some of that. Yes.
They call it a U curve for happiness.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Whereas your peak is kind of round, like your late teens,
early twenties, and then you, yeah, start to go down, down, down,
and then you peak again at seventy and they say
from seventy to eighty six. You start to go down
a little bit at that point too, but you still
it's nice to think, Okay, fine, we're bottoming out right
about now, and then now you're on the uptick back
(02:31):
up to another fun, amazing high similar to that which
you had in your late teens early twenties.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Isn't that discouraging?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Though? Didn't you?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I didn't do as deep of a dive as you
did on the eight what'd you say?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It was?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Seventy seventy is supposed to be your happiest age, like
that's the peak in life.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
In life, the happiest we're ever going to be is
at seventy years old, Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
But the most miserable we're ever going to be is
actually kind of a shocking number.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I guess it's probably why people call it a midlife crisis.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
There have been names for this period in our lives
for generations, and it's been kind of described as a
crazy transition, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Okay, but wait, but it's depressing to be at the
age I am right now and to be told that
the happiest I'm ever going to be is when I
am seventy. Nobody appreciates Who wants that? Who wants to
go through life at this point? At any point? You
telling us that I got to wait into who wants
(03:34):
to hear you know you're on the thirty forty that
I got to wait until then.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
But you know, it's exciting that there's better. I guess
the best is yet to come, there's better days ahead.
That's actually still a really hopeful thing to know that,
what if your happiest day was eighteen, or your happiest
year is twenty, that would be depressing. I don't think
it's depressing at all to think that we have another round,
another season, another era of joy and.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Peace.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I think, really, I think is something that I believe
many people don't realize is actually what we're all looking for.
We're looking for excitement and all of that fun stuff
and the wild ride and adventure. But actually it's peace,
and I think we get that after we've lived enough life.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But don't you think about all the fun things you
wanted to do, The partying you wanted to go do
in Vegas, the trips you wanted to take, the yachts
you wanted to be on, the European vacation.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Are you describing me right now?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Because that you no what I'm saying. All of these
things you would like to experience when when you're young,
when you're beautiful, when you're in love, when you're at
your peak, it seems, at least physically or mentally or
even how you're engaged in the world, it seems like
that's the time you want to be able to enjoy
it all. To think that now I can enjoy it,
but now I'm seventy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
But maybe you appreciate it more if you had all
of those things in your teens and twenties. And yes,
some people do, and you often see them hit depression.
It's kind of like Olympians, right, once you've reached the
peak and the top too soon, what's there left?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And so that is when depression falls into place.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
I think this might just be a natural order that
makes a lot of sense, because if it all happened
too quickly, too soon, I think there would be a
huge deflation that followed. So if you have something still
to look forward to and aspire to, even if you
might not be at your physical prime, you have the
wisdom and the experience to appreciate it. And isn't that
kind of what makes things special when you can appreciate them,
(05:30):
that is what makes the difference.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I was agreeing with you, and all of it I
was just playing devils.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
See I thought I was convincing you. I got all passionate.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
But in our mind.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I wouldn't have agreed with that maybe ten years ago,
but I have a different right experience at this point.
But I think most people might look at that and
think about I don't think our first intuition is to say, oh,
I have something to look forward to. When I hear
that we're all happiest at seventy, I think most people
would think, well, man, what am I missing? Or I
got to wait that long? Or it sounds like so
(06:02):
much of life then is misery.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
You've got to wait that long?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I do think so much of it is expectation, but
it it it also so that can create, you know,
a problem if you think so. I think that is
where the midlife comes into the like the duldrums or
the midlife crisis, or the lowest point in our lives.
I think it comes from having failed expectations. When you're young,
and you're in your late teens and early twenties, you
(06:30):
think about what you will be, could be, might be,
and then when you are in your late forties early fifties,
you realize what you didn't accomplish and what you probably
never will accomplish, and then you get to come to
terms with it, you become at peace with it, and
then you actually get to really appreciate, enjoy what you
do have. You're not focused on what you don't have.
(06:51):
I think a lot of our twenties and thirties and
forties are chasing what.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
We don't have. And once you kind of accept that
what is just is, that's where the real peace and
joy and happiness follows. Oh man, that's undepressing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Fun.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I can tell by your face that that did not
inspire you in any way, that actually depressed you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I get absolutely, of course get what you're saying and that,
but it takes a while to come around to that.
You mentioned that the number might surprise people, the number
they do have one. It's really precise. It's not just
a year. It's down to the decimal of what age,
that we are at our absolute lowest, and that we
are the unhappiest in life. And I just came out
(07:36):
of it not too long ago, but experienced it in
my forty seventh year.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, that's true. Are we giving the number now?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I want to see where this comes from this is
an actually economics professor of research and a David blanche Flower,
but he's been cited for several years now. The research
was back in twenty twenty, but it was huge. Five
hundred thousand people were done in this massive research survey.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
He gave us the answer.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So this is why we have on average robes. What
age are we at our.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Unhappiest forty seven point two?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So what was I doing late October early November last year,
because that would have been my forty seven point two age.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Obviously that is an average.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Like I said, I believe from having known you very
well for the last ten years, I did see you
at a very rock bottom place, and it was a
few years before forty seven point two.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think you have been on the.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Upswing, although we did have some turbulence coming out of that.
But I have heard you describe yourself to people.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Correct me if I'm wrong that you are the happiest
and healthiest you've ever been.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh yeah, the healthiest part is the key, but yeah,
oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And to your point, it late late thirties thirty eight
to forty two was some ugliness. It was some that
was some dark, dark times for me, I would describe
some of that as my darkest and then yes, coming
out forty two, forty three, forty four, Yeah, I'm finally
coming out.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
How old were you when I met you? I'm trying
to remember I was forty one.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Then I must have been twenty four.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You're hilarious.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
You were thirty seven, thirty six, thirty seven, Okay, so yes,
I knew you then, but it wasn't until I think
your early forties where I saw you really hit like
you were headed in that direction and then you hit
rock bottom. So yes, I did see that, and I'm
you know, it's I.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
They do say you ebb and you flow.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Obviously it doesn't have, you know, just a straight line
either in either direction.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
But yes, I can.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I can account for my late forties as being absolutely
the most tumultuous of my life for sure, and hitting
rock bottom. Yes, without a doubt, that happened for me
about that exact time.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But it's interesting because.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
There were there was stuff that was going on in
our life outside of correct control, correct, but that is
not what we're talking about in this type survey thing
that was. Now you're speaking of a very specific event,
and that's happening that does not happen to most people
they're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
No, no, you gotta throw that out.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes it was tumultuous, and you're laying forties that had
nothing to do with what those researchers talk about.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You know what, I would actually say that there have
been moments in the last couple of years where it
through a lot of work, and yes, maybe experiences put
me in the position to do deeper dives on my
mental health. But I would say that these last couple
of years have been tough for me. But I now
(10:43):
I genuinely feel like I am on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I feel like I have turned that corner, so to speak,
the you of the happiness curve, because I have genuinely
been a happy person. I think I am naturally happier
than most in terms of just having a natural disposition.
I really have always said I didn't really it's it
takes a lot for me to get low or to
(11:08):
get really depressed or feeling low. So I've appreciated that
and I've recognized that. But when you when I'm not okay,
it's really obvious to me. You know, I've not lived
with that in a way that I have, So I
don't know. I definitely feel like I have come around,
but it is that moment of kind of reckoning what
is my value? And I think when we're younger, we
think our value is what we have, our potential, what
(11:30):
we do for a living, but it's not how.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
We treat people or how we treat ourselves.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
So I do think I have come around to valuing
people and things in life in a way that actually
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So what was your low number?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I really do think it was forty nine?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I really do, well, yes mine, wow, mind much earlier
than you did.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
But that's why we're good, because you know our age difference.
It sinks up now it works perfectly. See it's all
making more sense to me now.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And some of you, you actually robes, hit on it
just a little bit, but there are and once you
say them out loud, it makes sense. Why is it
that it's forty seven? Why is it that it's forty
seven point two? Why is it that it's late forties?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Why is it?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And what is happening in your life now? What has
already happened in your life? They probably put you at
that number. The reasons there are three very specific ones
as to why forty seven point two is your low point?
(12:39):
All right, we continue now with Yes, the birthday boy.
You're not supposed to call yourself then, are you?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I'll call you the birthday boy. I think you can.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Where's the birthday boy.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I don't walk into a room and announce myself. Hey,
the birthday boys here.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I would.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, that's weird, but I would just say, when it
is your birthday, you can kind of do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Why right, Why don't.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You give me that three hundred and sixty four days
of the year and then my birthday out, because then.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It wouldn't be special and birthdays are special.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, it would be special because that's the day I
would behave.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
No, then it wouldn't feel special at all because every
day would be your day.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And it is.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But yeah, we're continuing about this research. Yes, that says
I just had just coming out of the worst year
of my life, because the research said that forty seven
is particular.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
In particular, forty seven.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Point two is the lowest point of happiness in adulthood.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You robe started to reel off some of these reasons
for it and didn't even realize you were doing so.
But when you start to think about the why why
would it be that age you've already said it, go
go ahead. What would you say right now? And it's
not a trick question.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Oh, I would say because because you had expectations that
weren't met, would be the number one thing what you valued,
perhaps you did, you don't own, like what you thought
you needed, you didn't have. You didn't get to.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Your first one. You haven't moved up in life, you
haven't quite made it, or you realize you're never.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Gonna make it right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, exactly, that's one of the reason you have like this.
You got to come to reality about where you are
in your personal and professional life. And this is the
moment a lot of folks don't think I can start
over either my personal life or my professional life. So
I'm stuck with these decisions that I have made.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
That is so that includes if you're not in a
relationship you like, if you're not in a career you like,
it's hard to make a change or to do anything
different to change the course of your life. Also, maybe
because a chapter of maybe your children might be dragging
you down. I don't know if that's a part of
the midlife crisis where you just the responsibilities and the
(14:54):
weight of all of it, told.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
You we were going to get all these This age
group has a tendency to, as you mentioned, taking care
of kids. But this is the age.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Group that's what taking care of parents as well.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Welk in between.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yep, you got two groups who need.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You you to take care of and that is stressful
as hell.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That's part of a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And then I don't know if the thermone would be
anything like health related. Maybe your body is deteriorating or
you're not able to do the things you could before.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I think you actually nailed this one earlier at this
idea of regret, ah, because now you're re examining the
decisions you made that resulted in you being where you
are right now.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Okay, do you have the unfortunate I guess maybe just
perspective of recognizing where you went wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You're seeing the results of your actions and you actually
thinking if I'm not happy here, that's one thing. Now
to double up on that misery. You're actually going back
and saying what if? What if? What if? What if?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Damn?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's tough and this is the age you're doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
That makes a lot of sense, I mean. And then
you get through it, you recalibrate, you learn from your
mistakes instead of just feeling guilty about them, and you
start anew and you start with less guilt, and you
start with feeling responsible for everybody else's feelings and problems,
and it does give you a new sense of freedom.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'm curious, how old do you feel?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
You're forty eight, But if someone were to ask you
how old you feel, what would it be like mentally
and physically?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Mentally I am.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I feel about where I am and maybe even older
because I've just been through a lot. I know a
lot of people have been through a lot, but I've
been blessed to be able to experience a lot in business,
a lot in my personal life. Not all of it's
been good. Someone has been quite awful. But the experience
(16:51):
is to being able to travel, experience of kids, experience.
I've gotten so much of that to where I do feel.
I don't feel mentally immature in any way. Even I
can go back and examine some of the immature things
I have done and see things so differently. So as
far as mentally I'm about on par probably okay.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
So you okay?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
But just if I said how old are you and
you didn't have to think about it, how old?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I don't know, man, you know I should No, I'm
given too much thought. I should have just reacted.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, just react, Oh, I would.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Say, of man, I'm a mid thirty year old guy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Okay, maybe earlier, because I feel fit. I feel good,
I feel healthy. I don't feel challenged necessarily. I've had
an injury, a running injury, but I don't feel challenged right.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
In that way.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So no, I and again as far as I oftentimes
see guys that are my age and I'm like, holy hell,
I don't look like that. We don't look similar, we
don't look like we're in the same age range for
various reasons.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
But I stay fit. So yeah, I think I feel
How old? Would you say? I look okay?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Thirty six? Okay, that's not bad.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
That was kind I thought.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
No, I think that's fair, Thank you, sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
She could have gone earlier.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Though, then you would have known she was lying.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But you asked that question.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Look, why did you were the one telling me that
people were giving Leonardo DiCaprio hill, Yeah, because of the
answer he gave to that question, what's a big deal?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yes, So, Leonardo DiCaprio just turned fifty and he was
being interviewed and this was from another director actually, and
they were discussing, just back and forth from professional conversation
to personal. He asked him, I'm going to ask you
a question. You're going to answer it as quickly as
you can if you didn't know how old you are,
(18:52):
how old are you right now? And DiCaprio responded quickly,
He just said, thirty two. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Talk about why he feels thirty two.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And this was all around him turning fifty and being
reflective about what it feels like to be fifty. And
he even joked and said, I emotionally turned thirty five
last year. But anyway, he said he felt thirty two
seems innocent enough. But folks, yes, this is social media
for you.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
You gotta love it.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
They completely jumped on to ridicule him on social media.
Some of them said more like it's the only way
he could try and justify chasing after girls under the
age of twenty five. That was what someone wrote went that, yeah,
then they said he has a problematic age gap with himself. Yes,
someone else wrote straight man is emotionally immature, groundbreaking stuff.
(19:43):
So yeah, people just got really snarky and unnecessarily cheeky
about it. But I actually feel like that was an
honest answer. I mean, if you asked me, I think
I would. I think thirty six is exactly what I
would say. That's how old I feel. That there's nothing
wrong or mentally both I was. I mean, look like emostly,
(20:03):
I wasn't even thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
From a wisdom perspective. I mean, who I was at
thirty six?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Oh my god, Yes, I'm light years older and wiser
than that person. But just if you ask me how
I feel going out, running, hanging out with friends, just.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Being active, Oh yeah, I feel like I'm in my
late thirties at the oldest. Yeah, and I hope to
stay that way. I want to. I always say I'm
ten to fifteen years younger than I actually am. I
do what do you think I act? I wouldn't say immaturely,
I just act.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I always say that's one of the most attractive things
about you, your childlike xuberant over the simple things. You
literally will skip through the house. Sometimes not because you're
in a hurry to get somewhere and I see you
from you don't know, even though I'm watching you. You're
sliding and running and sliding in the socks across your
playing in the house. It's just little fun. They're childlike,
(21:02):
not because they're immature, but because playful kids have that
type of just zest and just joy about life and
the simple thing.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So yes, thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Well, that's a huge compliment, because there is a playfulness
that I think we lose sometimes as we start stressing
and worrying and being weighed down by responsibility and guilt,
perhaps with all of the what ifs and I should
have and I could have. But yes, if we can
keep that sense of playfulness and idleness and just being
in the moment, that's really what it boils down to.
(21:33):
Can you just be in the moment and find out
how to enjoy right now, not thinking about what you
have to do, what you should have done.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Those are the things that kill us.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, can we go now? Please? Got some party?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, Erd, I just wrapped up the worst year of
my life and I would like to go celebrate it now.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That sounds good. Cheers to you babe, and cheers to
forty eight and being on the upswing of that U
curve of happiness. And thank you all for listening to us.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
I may be Robock alongside J Holmes, have a wonderful ride.
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