Good Sport

Why do men love sports so much? Have you ever asked yourself this question?

Or maybe these... Is he addicted to sports? Are sports all he cares about?

We want to know HOW MEN THINK...so let's talk sports!

Michael Caussin, former NFL Tight End and Radio and TV Sports Host Petros Papadakis join in to explain why men love to play, watch, talk , live and breathe sports.

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is How Men Think with broths Like and Gavin
de grab and I hear radio podcast. Welcome to another
episode of How Men Think. My name is Brooks Like
and we have a new co host in here with
us today. And it's always a joy of mine when
we bring on. I always look at these guys as brothers,
brothers or sisters because they are athletes. And we have

(00:21):
a professional athlete. We have a retired I don't I
don't even want to say that because it's not my
spot to say it, but a former uh National Football
League player NFL player played to the Buffalo Bills, Jackson's
Bille Jaguars and my Skins, my Washington Redskins. He's a husband,
he's a father. We have Michael Cosson in with us. Michael,

(00:43):
welcome to the show. Brother, Thank you, thank you, Brooks
appreciate it. Man. Dude, did I see your last last name? Right?
You did? You did? And that's that's my wife's biggest
gripe about being married with me. Really is my last
name because legally her last name is Corson and no
one can pronounce it over phone. Everyone thinks when you
say s, they say F like, oh, coffin, got it

(01:04):
got We're like, no, okay, whatever, oh cause my last
name gets butchered all the time. My last name is
like although it looks like late and so I'm always like,
I just want to say people's names right. So, rather
I appreciate you for being on the show, Um, I
want to dig into your journey because the reason I like,
I always loved the journey of an athlete because I
was one, but like your journey in reading your bio

(01:26):
and seeing your transition from sport to what you're doing
now is is just aligns with me. So, Um, you
were a professional football player, which goes to you do
that is a freaking beast of a sport that is
a hard, hard sport. Um, And now you've come out
of the sport as I have, and I want you
to share with our listeners to then maybe I haven't

(01:48):
listened to your podcast yet, but what the transition has
been like for you coming out of the sport, moving
in transitioning to trying to find a new passion. For sure,
it's one of those things that you know as an
athlete you can kind of relate to when you're in it,
when you're in your sport. It does feel like it's
you're going to be in it for your life, Like
you can't really foresee you not doing it. You know

(02:10):
inevitably you have to stop, but you just that's not
a reality for you. It's just for athletes. We get
stuck in our bubble, in our mindset because it consumes
you so much. So when you come out of that
bubble and out of that pink cloud of of reality
of you know, being an athlete and going back into reality,
it's it is, though, what now? Like you can prepare

(02:32):
all you want And I did that too when I was,
you know, playing the NFL Externships every season, and I
try to set myself up, but then life happens. I
meet my wife, I've moved to a different state. All
my kind of connections were back east, so things are
just different, and you you roll with those obstacles. So
it was just you know, I guess I say to

(02:53):
your listeners, imagine not doing the thing you've done your
entire life and then just starting all over. It's like,
what does that look like? So I think that's so
important because I think a lot of people are going
through that. I don't think it's just something that professional
athletes go through. And so as a listener of this podcast,
it's gonna be Michael and I sharing our stories in
relation to hockey and in relation to football. But it

(03:15):
can be just a midlife pivot. It can be maybe
COVID has interrupted your business or your career and maybe
now you're looking for a pivot. So in this in
this episode, we're going to get into possible pivots or
transitions in career, lots of purpose, shake ups, um, things
that are outside of your control that maybe redirect you
on a new path. And we're also going to dive

(03:36):
into some listener questions about why men like sports so much?
So who better to answer that than you, buddy? Uh,
but what have you found being the biggest challenge um
for you personally in in finding something post sports? What
has been the biggest challenge for you? Has it been
letting go of sports or has it been finding something

(03:57):
else that you're passionate about. It's it hasn't been letting
go of sports, because I'm sure you can relate. It's
like the first couple of seasons after you retire, you
don't want to be around it. You don't really want
to talk about it. You can't watch it. I don't
even think about that right Why it's too close to
home still because you see all these guys that you

(04:19):
either played beside, played against, and you're like, this guy
is still playing and you just you miss. And not
that you're judging that person for not being good enough
to still play, but you just miss being out there.
You know, you ask any of us, nine percent of
us are gonna say, what do we miss the most?
The locker room, the camaraderie, the guys, that environment. And
so it's just when I would watch it, I would

(04:41):
start to think of those things, and think about that
brotherhood and and think about my connection with my teammates
and everything, and so I couldn't watch it the first
couple of years. Now five years removed, I'm to the
point where I can watch it as a fan again.
I enjoy it um But it's the biggest struggle for
me has been so letting go of the game was
was fine. It's it really is finding that purpose, that

(05:03):
thing that gets you up in the morning. And again,
most professional people in general, but especially athletes, are days
are scheduled from top to bottom, and so when you
go when you have that lifestyle for so long and
then it just ceases to exist. It's like, wait, I'm
used to someone telling me what my day is gonna

(05:24):
look like, or at least in the offseason, I know
I'm scheduled with trainers, I'm scheduled doing their things I
need to do. Now it's like, uh, what you know?
Trying I'm like lost, I'm like what do I do?
I don't have to do this, I don't have to
do that. So that's been the biggest struggle for me
is on a day to day basis, just trying to
find a routine. Mine has been. That's interesting, mine has been.

(05:45):
I bet a lot of people listening can assimilate with
that because they're their routines have been disrupted with COVID right,
all of a sudden, you at home, all of a
sudd now you gotta be a parent and like a
teacher and do your job, and your gym is closed
and your church is closed, and like jeez, you used
to travel, but oh you can't see family now. Like um,
a lot of routines have been disrupted. My biggest struggle

(06:06):
struggle has been finding something that I'm equally as passionate
about to actually two struggles. One I missed the Uber competition.
I miss lining up with and playing against the best
in the world, and that measuring stick. I missed that
so much so I missed the Uber competition. Um. And
then the other thing I miss is just something that

(06:27):
I am so consumed by and and driven to accomplish
and proud of and just fascinated with, the pursuit of mastery.
I missed the pursuit of mastery because as an athlete,
that's what you are. You're pursuing the mastery of your craft,
excellence within yourself to be excellent at this craft. And

(06:50):
I haven't shown up that way in other things that
I have done. Um, since I have lost not yeah,
even the way I say it lost hockey since my
career says it has been over. So UM. I try
and be a better podcast host. I try and study
podcast host, I try and get better at conversations. UM.

(07:11):
But I'll even admit it's not to the level that
I was as an athlete. That was a suit every
single day for every decision you made. And so part
of my heart breaks the fact that I am not
that committed like I was as an athlete to the
podcast or other little endeavors that I do. My heart
just breaks a little bit for that. Well, think about

(07:32):
this too, and this is you know, I know we
have a question today about like why men love sports
so much. My answer to that, but also to what
you're saying, is what else in life do does anybody
have that makes them as excited and passionate as sports?
There's nothing but maybe gambling, you know, if you went
a big back. But besides that that instant you know, uh,

(07:53):
euphoric feeling of of of happiness and success. There's nothing
that gets you to jump out of your seat. Sports does.
So when you're playing doing that as a career and
you have that high and low of working your ass
off and feeling those feelings, it's like and then you
go into something else. Like you said, Posca, I try
to do the same thing. I try to get better,
I ask you questions. I try to be a better

(08:15):
host or be at a husband. But there's nothing else
for that that that gratification of I've seen your hard
work payoff or whatever it may be. There's the's nothing
that really gets you out of your seat. So it's
hard to find a substitute. Yeah, and the sudden victory
and the sudden death of it, like the and because
the sudden victory when you see athletes, this is sharing
to anybody listening, when you see grown men or women

(08:38):
athletes just overcome by joy and elated at a moment
of success when they get a touchdown or you score
a goal or something they win like they just like
the pure emotion comes out. The pure emotion comes out
because they're You're competing against somebody that's equally as talented,
equally as committed, equally as driven, you know, uh, And

(09:00):
to find your way to overcome that and to beat
them is such is such a reward because so much
goes into it. We're not just talking about a month
of preparation. We're talking about years and decades of preparation
that go into that moment of overcoming and winning and achieving.
And that's been hard for me to replace in in

(09:22):
the transition years of my life right now. But Steve Young,
who I don't know if you ever played against Steve,
he was probably out of the league before, but Steve
is a friend. He gave me great advice one time.
Steve is three time Super Bowl winner. Uh. He said,
appreciate your life as an athlete for what it was,
the building, the sounds of the building, the games you

(09:42):
got to play, and being on TV is like, appreciate
all of that, Appreciate the heck out of that, but
know that you're never going to replace that in your life.
So don't move into being a former athlete thinking that
you're going to find something that replaces that. He said,
find something else that you love and that's really for
feeling and joyous for you, and focus on that, not

(10:03):
trying to replace sports with that, but just accepting what
sports were, loving what they were, being grateful for them,
and now putting your heart into this. So I've tried
to remind myself of that, but it's been tough. Are
you able to let me ask you this? Because I
know personally certain things are hard for me because I
set out you know, obviously, we set out goals and
and and points that we want to reach in our

(10:24):
professional career when it came to sports, have you been
able if there is anything that you didn't achieve, have
you been able to let those goes? Because those are
the things that have really sat more with me that
I didn't I wasn't able to accomplish certain things I
set out to do. Do you have a specific because yes, yes, exactly.
Do you have any specifics you want to share of
goals or dreams that you had growing up that you

(10:46):
were not able to professionally achieve. And I'm I'm sorry,
I'm poking the dark spot, but you don't have to
if you don't want to. It's no, it is, it's good.
It's I mean, you know, I spent five years in
the NFL, and that was probably longer than really I
thought maybe that it would last because I was just
a guy. I was just a guy. I was you know,

(11:07):
college walk on, free undrafted, free agent, just a guy
that just made it happen somehow and by the way,
I appreciate it. And so but still there are things,
you know, Um, I was able to start the second
half of one of my years, which was good. So
you know, I was able to like check that box
start a game, like even just one game. But there
are just certain things statistically or personally, or I've never

(11:29):
went to the playoffs, or I didn't play as long
as I wanted to, I didn't have the statistics that
I wanted to. Um, So it's just things like that
that you know, I worked so hard for that. We
worked so hard for that. It's just like, man, you
just kind of left that box unchecked, and it's just
it's just one of those things that's taken longer to
let go. Yeah, mine is never winning a Stanley Cup.

(11:53):
So um, that was my goal the whole time. Mine
was winning And one of the hardest things for me
is to let go of that dream, to to accept
the realization that as a player, I will never win
a Stanley Cup. But further to that, it's my parents,
it's my brother, it's my sister, it's my best friends,
it's the people my coaches throughout my life. It's the
people that have supported this journey for me that I

(12:16):
always wanted to bring a Stanley Cup to. It's my
hometown of a Wolda that I wanted to bring the
cup back to. Um, that's a big one for me.
That's a really big one. It's hard to let that
go because I feel like I disappointed so many people.
There are personal stats. I wanted to play a thousand games.
I ended up short of that. A couple of injuries
caused me, uh short of my career. The release I

(12:37):
was released. At the end, I didn't retire, you know,
I didn't say I'm good with this, I'm on my
own way out piece with this support, like I check out,
I'm done. I was released. That's a hole in my heart.
So there were so many things that I didn't accomplish.
But when I when I have good days, Michael, when
I look back at it, my good days are filled
with gratitude. My bad days are filled with what I

(12:58):
didn't accomplish. And when I actually focus on the fact
that my actual dream wasn't just winning a Stanley Cup.
My dream was expressing myself through my sport every single day.
I actually lived my dream every single day. Right, this
cup would have been great. But what I can reflect
with that kind of a mindset, um, So for anybody

(13:20):
else that's going through like a transition of career or
a loss of career or something and hasn't accomplished goals,
that's what I would encourage you. Like your your actual
goal was probably to express yourself through the thing that
you love. You grateful for that. So there's there's one
thing I wanted to mention that that sparked it when
you said your goals that you weren't able to accomplish.

(13:40):
And that was I tell my wife this all the time.
My biggest actual disappointment that that I remember now is
I always I was single through my NFL days and
always envied the guys that after practice or after games
their kids come onto the field and hug them and
they'd run around the field on with the kids. And

(14:01):
I was just when I was playing my playing days,
I was like, man, I can't wait for that, Like
I can't wait for my kids to like run on
and see daddy in his pet And I never got that,
And so that is one thing that's the biggest thing
for sure. I wish I would have had that memory
with my kids now. So that's amazing, Yeah, that's I
get that because it was so awesome to see guys

(14:22):
bring their kids through the locker room and stuff like that.
And for me, it's even further like you're a you're
a father, you have a daughter. Um for me, you
have one daughter, right, one daughter and a son and
a son. So you have a daughter and a son
For me, I don't have kids yet, So my kids
won't know me as that athlete. They'll be like, really

(14:43):
you are that, Like they won't be able to wear
my jersey at the game, you know, which would have
been a really cool memory to have. So Um, but
that's by my own choice. You know, that was by
my own choice. I knew that, But I always thought
i'd play, as every athlete does, think that we would
play longer. Um, give me, give me your favorite one
of your favorite personal memories, or something that you're really

(15:07):
proud of about your career as an athlete, Michael, something
internally that you're so just warms your heart and proud of.
Here's the thing I will say, And this is something
I always It's kind of intangible and immeasurable. Where I

(15:28):
never changed. And I say that with confidence and pride
that the people that knew me before, the people that
knew me during, the people that knew me after, I
was the same person. And I tell people too. I
tell young guys that don't mentor or talk to who
are in college or or or trying to be in

(15:48):
you know, in the NFL or whatever. I tell him. Look,
I knew everyone's name from the janitor to our g M.
I was like, I should have been cut two years
prior to when I actually was by buff Low. But
I truly believe the reason I wasn't was because I
was a positive guy around the facility. I was just

(16:09):
one of those guys that like, okay, so we're like,
he's a he's a good dude. He like brings the
team up, he's here every day, he works hard. He
never missed it. He just I was consistent. I was
the same person every day. And so that's one of
those things that I look back on and no one
can take that away from me because I was like
I never changed. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that about you, man,
because I feel the same way about myself. Like you

(16:31):
said the janitor to the gm UM, I missed those relationships.
I miss seeing the the staff at the rink, you know,
the dorman or the locker room staff or anybody. It
could be the guy in the elevator, could be the
lady at the parking when we get there. Like, I
miss seeing those faces and just being involved with those
people's lives um and knowing that you you are part

(16:55):
of something. You aren't the something, correct, you know. So
there's there's athletes that are like that. They're like, I'm
the show. I'm here, You're here to serve me, But
there's so many other ones that aren't that are like,
I'm part of this. We are all part of this,
and they share in your winds, you know, like the
fun part. They share in your winds. So yeah, um,

(17:17):
your favorite NFL memory? Favorite NFL memory? Home man like
asking athletes this, what's one? What's one memory? Maybe a
play you made, maybe like a feeling looking up and
see eighty thousand people in the anthem, the planes flying over, Like,
I don't know what's What's a memory that stands out
to you? There is a weird plane. So I grew

(17:38):
up in the d C. Area. Okay, so I grew up.
I grew up a Skins fan and we were playing
the Broncos. Was it two? There's two thousand and On
a play, I was stretching out and I went to
go block Champ Bailey yea, and I blocked them and
did my job. It was great, but it was it
was one of those moments that I'm like, I'm like

(18:00):
kind of jogging back to the huddle. I'm like I
was a kid watching him. You know. It's just at
that moment you play with these guys who you looked
up to or you were fans of and it's just
like that's surreal moment that you're like, wait, what what
just happened? Immediately you feel like you're twelve years old again.
So that's one of those. I had a few of those,
but that was one of those moments because I grew
up a Redskins fan and it was Champ and he

(18:22):
had been in the league at that point like fifteen
years or whatever it was. I was just like, Yeah,
he's the man. And then so did this happen for you?
Because I had that same thing where you're like, yeah,
you're not that good man. I'm on your level now,
you know for sure. You're so proud of yourself. You're like, yeah,
he's just human. He's human, but he's human with you, brother,
Let's go for sure. And I've also had the reverse

(18:43):
of that where I've also where I've also go to
hit a guy and I went to go hit like
te Kio Spikes when he was with the Chargers and
he is a brick wall and I went up and
I was two pounds when my playing days. I went
up and snacked him. I didn't it was like hitting
a tree like that. He didn't go anywhere and not
even like office foot or anything. I just kind of okay,

(19:03):
you got it, my bad, I'm just getting running back.
That happens too. Sometimes you'll get a guy you're like, yeah,
you ain't that bad man. I'm I'm right here with you.
I'm here, I'm here. And then other times you'll you
get a guy you're like, oh damn you. Yeah, okay,
I get it, you got it, And that's why you
still got it. You're the man. I love it, um.

(19:24):
But it was that was that was something for me
my first ten games in the NHL, I was looking
around it like these guys. That was just like these
are my childhood idols. I play them on Sega Genesis
I haven't guys. And then and then you know, you
get us. You take a puck from them, like you said,
you block Champ Bailey, and you're like, okay, I can
I can hang here? You know, they're great. Great, It

(19:45):
gives me something to strive to to become and be
better at. But yeah, I deserve to be here. I
can hang here so good. Yeah, awesome man. So I
want to get into more sports with you, um. And
we're also gonna bring on another tastic guests and the
hilarious guests. Um, and we're gonna have a conversation about
sports in generals, what it means to us as men.

(20:06):
We're gonna explain to a lot of our a lot
of our community here at how men think our female
We're gonna explain why sports are so important to us,
why they matter so much White guys are addicted to sports.
We're gonna get three different angles on it. Um. We'll
be right back with another guest right after this. We'll
get into why sports are so important for men. Okay,

(20:30):
back from breaks. The question we get from a lot
of our listeners, A lot of our listeners are female.
We get this question a lot. Why do men love sports?
What is it about sports that men are so drawn to?
So let's ask a professional athlete here, let's ask. Let's
ask you, Michael, what is it about sports that just
not just men, but answering from the male perspective, why

(20:51):
your men drawn to sports? There's there's two reasons. One
one is, uh, maybe the surface level one to the
second is a little bit deeper. The surface level is
there are some guys who may be into sports because
it feels like their own thing. They know they're significant
others or their girlfriends might not be that into it.
So it's their time. It's their excuse to have time

(21:12):
to themselves. They're excuse to hang out with their buddies,
they're excused to do something else. So that's surface level.
But the main reason I think, is I kind of
touched on before, is there's nothing else in life, in
my opinion, besides maybe hitting big on the blackjack table
that gives you that immediate uh energy or excitement or
euphoria that sports does. Nothing else in life gets you

(21:33):
out of your seat jumping, or have grown men and
women paint their faces or were crazy costumes at arenas
or stadiums. Nothing else does that. That's why we love it.
That's true. Um so is it? Do you think that
like guys are reliving their glory days with that or
is it the other reason? One other reason I heard
why men really love sports, it was a great conversation

(21:55):
I had, was because they see people that pursued their dreams.
So they see people that didn't give up. Because I
think every I could be wrong. I'm not I shouldn't
put paint just a broad stroke, but a lot of
guys when their kids want to be a professional baseball player,
played in the NFL, be a professional hockey player. Those

(22:17):
are things we want to do when we're kids. We
see that as so cool, right, And as you get older,
for a lot of men, they let that go and
they pursue other things in life, which is great. They're
very successful. They maybe are more fulfilled and happy in
other areas. But they also I think have somewhat of
a respect for that guy held onto that dream and
he pursued it. And I used to play against that guy.

(22:39):
I played against one guy who played college. You know,
like they still find themselves, they see themselves in the
sport a little bit. And we all we all know
the guy too that that said that, Well, if I
didn't have this, and if I didn't blow my shoulder
out in high school, if I didn't tear my cl
on this, I would have I would have dated too everywhere.
Uh and then there's the other guy. The older they get,

(23:00):
the better they were. Um. Yeah, those guys are put
the guys with the injuries. So true story. I had
one guy. I met a guy I was on vacation
after the season ended. I would book like four flights,
five flights. Me and my brother and my buddies and
we go somewhere and we're in Mexico and I had
a guy was just talking to him. I was like, so,
what's your name and he's like, my name is blah blah.

(23:20):
I don't want to say his name. And he's like
I was like, yeah, um, tell me give me a
real quick life story in like twenty seconds. And he's like, well,
I was a professional hockey player. I was drafted by
the Washington Capitals. Um, you know professional. I ended up
never going pro, but I was drafted, you know, when
I was seventeen, and just then I went into like
medical or I went into insurance whatever. He gives me

(23:40):
the spield. But but he's like, yeah, I still consider
myself an athlete. And my buddy sitting beside me is
just tapping me on the shoulders like oh my god.
And the guy's like what is going on, And my
buddy goes so, you know, Brooks here has played for
the Capitals for ten years and this guy just like
shut it. He was just like, oh damn, it's just

(24:01):
like I preached us to the wrong guy. But yeah,
they still have the dream. I think that's why guys
love it. They still have the dreams. You're so right, Michael,
with the like the jolt of energy. And I think
also as I think about that, as they say that
the jolt of energy, it also gives men a reason
to like express themselves. I don't think guys are really

(24:22):
I mean, you're a father, so you get to express
it with love and stuff too to your children. But
like I don't think guys unless they still play sports themselves,
get to like, yeah, like well, just like have that
life come out of them, right, have that that that
life of that intensity, because maybe they go to work
in the work environment isn't like that, or maybe they

(24:45):
have a couple of daughters and it's not that kind
of like an atmosphere you know that who knows, Like
it's just so, but that beast is still in there.
That competitive drive is still within guys. There's testosterone. They're
still like it's a watching sports. They get to act
as that expression that makes sense? Oh, absolutely, which I
want to turn the tables with quick and ask you

(25:06):
a question around that. When you do have kids, are
you worried about being that way too much? Like when
they do, whether even if it's your daughter or something, whoever,
it is. Are you worried about your energy or your
expectations coming out when it comes to sports. I'm not, truthfully,
I'm not, and this is why, Um, I don't have kids,

(25:28):
so I can't say that I'm going to be perfect
at it. But my parents were so freaking good, so
amazing at being so supportive but never pushy, that they
never pushed me over the edge. And I never said
you have to do this, you have to do that.
You're like like my my mom, God bless her heart,
always like I always think I played the most amazing
or always thought I played the game. I could never

(25:49):
play a bad game in front of Mom because he's
just like, you played so good, you tried so hard.
And then and then Dad, on the other hand, Dad
off constructive criticism because he knew I wanted to get better.
In his job, he was my coach. His job was
to try and help me get better, always the port
of always from a place of love, always from a
place of trying to help me, not putting pressure on me.

(26:12):
So I think I learned a lot from how my
parents handled me. But let me ask you that question
having two kids, like how do you how do you
navigate them being in whether it's sports or competition, whether
it could be dance or anything else, Like, how do
you navigate that as a parent, Um, do you push
them hard? Do you find you push them hard? How
do you navigate that? You know that some of that

(26:34):
is to be determined because you know, my daughter's four
should be five in January, my son's almost two, so
they're still young in that. UM, what I will say
in contrast of your story, I learned my mom was
similar to yours, but my dad was kind of opposite.
Where so for me, I'm kind of I've learned what

(26:54):
not to do based on my experience of um, you know,
level of disappointment or how that was expressed towards me,
or frustration and how that was expressed towards me. It
wasn't necessarily healthy. Having said that, the toughness also is
what I needed to to drive me to where I was.

(27:15):
Um to you know, I really look back and be like, well,
if he wasn't that hard on me and my personality,
and maybe I wouldn't have achieved what I have. So
but my biggest thing is I'm trying to practice now
is always to tell them I'm proud of them to
get on their level, like even if they did do
something wrong or or whatever, and you'd work at something.
I get on their level. I never looked down at them,

(27:38):
you know, and patronize them in that way. Um A,
what A what a gift that is just for our
audience to hear that share that again? Can you tell
us like a little story there? Yeah, So for me,
this is something I heard. God where did I hear
it from? I can't even remember. Someone way way smarter
than me said it, and I pick it all. I
made a mental note of it. And it was all

(27:58):
about the child psycho oology of because I remember being
a kid and most of my memories are of my
dad looking down at me, yelling at me, screaming at me, abusive,
whatever it was. And so I was like, I don't
want that fear for my kids. I want them to
know that I'm imperfect, that they can come and talk
to me about fears, about issues about you know, adversity,

(28:18):
and also happiness and joy and everything like that. So
what I learned was just getting down on their level,
whether it good, bad, or and different, and just talking
to them from that level, especially when they're little kids,
and just being like talked to daddy or if I'm
disappointed or if I'm happy, whatever it may be. That way,
they look at me as a peer. They still respect
me as a parent, but they look at me as

(28:39):
as not some superior being. That's always right. Yeah, Wow,
that's powerful, man. That's why I love bringing fathers on
this show. That's all. That's a gift. Thank you, Like
personally just for me, that's a gift. Um, because I've
never really heard that before. Um, but yeah, I can
see that. A's like because you think coaches you might

(29:00):
have had of something just like Hauler and at you
down and make you or insecure lack of confidence, whereas
somebody down eye level talking to you can be so supportive.
You're gonna we're all gonna have our moments where we
don't have handled it perfectly or sometimes they do just
need to kick in the assid you know. But you
know ninety eight percent of the the time, I want to

(29:21):
be able to to do that in everything. But let
me ask you this too, though. So this is a
debate my wife and I had where my daughter a
couple of years ago, she had a dance recital. Okay,
our daughter was the one who was running around in
circles like not doing the routine. She was like two
and a half. It was the cutest thing in the world.
So afterwards they all got handed this little trophy with
this spinny star on it. So we get home. I

(29:44):
look at my wife. I was like, hey, I'm gonna
throw this in the trash and she's like, what, No,
you can't throw a trophy in the trash. Like I'm like, what,
Why's she's gonna forget about this like tomorrow, Like she
doesn't even remember it now. We're just in the car ride, like,
why do we need to keep it? Well? She and
I was like why can't us just saying we're so
proud of you. You should be proud of yourself. Be enough.

(30:05):
And so I'm big anti trophy for everything, but I'd
love to know another professional athletes feelings on that when
you know the time comes oh man on that one up.
I don't know because I agree with you. I mean,
kids get trophies for every single thing now, which devalues
a trophy, right you If you get a trophy for

(30:25):
every weekend that you play a tournament or something, it's like, well,
I got two hundred of these so instead of like, wow,
I earned these five you know, so I see that.
On the other hand, I don't know, man, if I'm
just because because I'm not a dad and I'm not
a dad to a daughter. If she's two and a
half and she gets a trophy, I'm gonna put that
figure right up on the I just like I don't

(30:46):
just because I still want to be a dad and
take down the TV. The trophy is going up, guys,
a little ledge for this boor in trophy. This thing's
get a spotlight on. Yeah, let's get a spotlight on here.
We got look at this shopy, look at this because
she was the best answer out there. Let me as
see that transition though, coming from like from being an

(31:09):
alpha male. I'm asking the male playing an alpha sport.
How how is it as a man going to like
a dance recital, dance competition. I love it. I'm a
d that dad that's in the back, like doing the
moves like with my daughter, like no, you gotta do
it like this and like this. And I'm so if
even if my daughter wants to pursue dancing or cheerlead
and I will be that dad that's doing the moves

(31:31):
practicing the routine with her, like, let's do this, let's
get after it. I love it. That's awesome, man, I
could see myself doing that. Were you nervous about that
before you were a parent? Like, Oh, I wonder if
I'm gonna, like, if I have a daughter and she's
not into sports like I am, I'm am I going
to be able to connect with her? Were you nervous
about that? You know? I think that's that's a great
question because I think as athletes, we we get that

(31:56):
question all the time, right, like, you're gonna steer your
kids away from sports because of health reasons that you
know of? Are you gonna steer your kids? Are you
gonna make them play sports because you did at the
highest level. I'm I'm indifferent. I want them to They're
gonna do something right sitting at whom am I doing anything?
But like our daughter, she's showing more interest towards dance,

(32:17):
and she's very artsy, like loves to draw. She's a
phenomenal drawer for four years old. So we might get
her a little art teacher to come over and like
and help inspire hers her creativity somewhere because she's so creative.
So I really don't care because and you'll learn this
when you you're a dad. You see them doing something
that makes them happy. Like our daughter yesterday just drew

(32:38):
a picture of the family and she even draws me
bald without any hair. You know, it's so fitting, and
she puts it up on the fridge. I'm like, how
cool is this? Like you know, like she drew the
dogs and everything, and it's just I love it. I don't.
I don't care um at all. Really, I love that outlook. Uh.
I feel like and I can only project this because

(33:01):
I'm not there yet, but I feel like I would
be the same. What I do want to do is
I want to get when I have kids, I want
to get them touches on as many things as possible.
So I don't want to just take them to the
rain and say, Okay, this is what you're gonna do.
I want to play soccer with him and play basketball
with him. I want to dive in the ocean with them.
I want to play off with them. I want him
to water ski, I want them to um dance. I
want them to like whatever and then just see just

(33:24):
expose them to everything and then see what they gravitate
towards like you said, your daughter is gravitating towards drawing
or being an artist, dancing, very artistic side. So I
do want to And I'm also curious because I don't
want them to be me, and I don't want my
kids to be me because they're not me there they
would be mixed with a partner, and I want to
just see what they're life is. So I don't know.

(33:47):
I think it's got to be so cool man, you know,
I will say to that though. So my wife grew
up in Michigan, Okay, she figure skated for like thirteen years.
So she's trying to get Jolie on the ice a bunch,
and our daughter hates it, and she can't wait to
get our son on the ice too, and she she
wants to be a little hockey mom and and all
that stuff. She was even a skate girl for the

(34:07):
Red Wings back in the day or some some crap.
But and I told her. I told her, I was like,
you can't have both. I was like, you can't take
both of them and want them to do skin. I
was like, my biggest thing is I just want one
of them to do something I can help teach them, right,
So I never did you know? I love hockey, but
I never played hockey. I can skate okay, because I'm athletic,

(34:28):
but that's about it. So I was like, I can't
teach them anything. I just want to be able to
share my knowledge of something, and so that includes you know, golf, basketball, baseball, football,
even soccer. But I was like, anything outside of that,
you know, I don't, which is cool too. If if
neither one of them do any any of those, I'm

(34:49):
cool with it because I'll learn about it, I'll dive in.
I'll just help them from a general standpoint of like
work ethic and and and everything like that. But that
is one thing I told him. I was you can't
have both. I was like, I want to be able
to teach them something. Um, what just a personal question
for you. What if your boy said, um, dad, I
really want to play football. I want to I want

(35:10):
to make football my life and pursue a career in
professional football. I want to go to college. But um,
what would you feel if your son approached you with that?
You know that? Yeah, like what I've never been asked
that question? Good question because I'm typically asked what if
they don't want to play, and I'm fine with that.

(35:33):
But if they do want to play and they talk
about they want to pursue it seriously mhm um, I'm
gonna have to do some introspection because knowing, you know,
guys like us, knowing what it takes, that doesn't make
exact thoughts to get there. Knowing the sacrifices and knowing

(35:57):
that it takes luck two like you can be in
the it really does, whether luck from injuries, luck from
right place, right time, just luck. So and to know
how that lifestyle is of of uncertainty and of of
traveling across across the country and maybe bouncing from team

(36:17):
to team from you know, from trying to manage your
schedule as a young adult in college and being a
student athlete, and so that I have more fear around
that because because guys like us know what it takes
and know how much time effort emotionally, mentally and physically
it takes on you, do you think it would take

(36:37):
you a while to like dive in and help him?
What have you said? Okay, Dad, I appreciate that. I'm
still going to go anyway. Yeah, I mean I would
be right there for him. I would just want him
to know that, you know, what you're signing up for
takes a lot, you know. And I had so I
have a younger brother who's fourteen years younger than me,

(36:58):
and same parents, and every think my parents were married
thirty or some years. She was just a nice little surprise.
And he's in college right now playing football. And you know,
when he started saying that, I thought I was gonna
have to have more of that conversation. But the thing
about him which was cool is he was old enough
to see me play and come to my games, which

(37:20):
was cool that he saw me working. He saw how
hard you know, how much effort it took, and everything
in the off season, and and so he's able to
he was able to mimic that. So I haven't really
had him have many of this conversation. That's almost like
if you work twice as hard, harder than idea at
your age. So I'm not worried about him, but it
is scary if if you know, our sons come up

(37:40):
to us and say they want to play the sport
that we played. Yeah, I can see. I could see
that when you were when I asked you that question,
you echoed my what I was thinking. My first thought
would be, do you know how far, how deep and
dark that you've got to go to get good enough

(38:02):
to be there? Like the depth of what how you
how far you need to pursue this? Like, oh, that
would give me hesitancy because I know and you know
how far you have to go what it requires of you,
um to get that. So um, I mean think about
think about the days, and I'm sure you can attest this.

(38:23):
I feel like, you know, everyone on the outside looking
at professional athletes like, man, they gotta love their job,
their liver, their dream and all that stuff, Like they're
probably happy every day. Yes, essentially we are. But those
dog days of those workouts, in those days where you're
just like, do I really want to do this anymore?
Or even when you're trying to make it and you're
training and you're throwing up and you're exhausting, you're like,

(38:46):
and then you have to get up and do it
again tomorrow. It's like those are the moments that you
you fear because you want your child or someone close
to you to be able to do that. But those
are the days exactly that you're talking about that is
just you go to a dark place. Man. There was
a week, dude, there was a week in February. This
happened in February every year. It was thirteen years pro,

(39:07):
fifteen years pro, thirteen years in the NHL. Um, every
year in February, there's one week where I was like,
I quit. It's just like I quit, man, I just
quit because it's just like, I this sucks. I'm so
beat up, I'm so cut tired. Um. Because you play
every second day. Second half of the season, we play

(39:28):
every second day, and then it continues right through playoffs
and you're traveling. You're five games and seven nights and
five different cities on the road, and you're just like
a zombie shoulders rack, can't turn your head right, knees
banged up, just block a shot, and you're just like,
I quit. But but you pursue it, you go through it,

(39:48):
through it. I'm surprised. Actually, that is one thing. I
know we're gonna get Petris on here in a minute,
but that is one thing that I uh commend, like
you guys and all pretty much all the other professional
sports besides football, the traveling aspect. I can't imagine the

(40:08):
traveling that y'all have to do the amount of hotels
you have to stay because that's the thing we get.
I mean, we're maybe two nights in the hotel, and
that's if we're going from coast to coast. We go
a day early, we leave on Fridays, but mostly it's
leave on Saturday. You spend one night in a hotel,
and then you go back home on Sunday after the game. Yeah,
you don't just get used to it, and you stay

(40:29):
in like stay in the same hotel as you guys
do Martory for the c b A that we stay
in five star hotels, so it's it's Carl four seasons
and stuff. Um, you just kind of get used to it.
But the travel, I mean, you know, professional teams have
traveled down to a science as a sleep doctor. So
they'll look at the schedule and get you scheduled and

(40:50):
we're gonna stay overnight in this city. The hard part
about the travel is when you play a Uh you're
in d C. And we play a game down in
Tampa Bay and we fly back that night. We get
in to thirty and we've got to be at the
rink at for practice the next morning. And you're like,
I'm hired and then uh, you know, and maybe that's
after your third game in four nights or something. So
that's the tougher part of it. But um, joining us now, mychael, Um,

(41:18):
we're gonna bring in another guest to talk about sports
because they haven't had enough of sports with you and
I yet, So we're bringing in another guest. I believe
he has just joined this beautiful, beautiful zoom called by
the Way. I hate to I'd rather see you guys
in in studio, but this man is a college football

(41:39):
analyst for Fox Sports. He is hilarious. He's also on
the Petros and Money Show, and he has if I
was a sportscaster, I think I would love to say
this name if he's an athlete. Petro's Papa docas in
the house. Petros, Are you there, brother, I'm here, dude.

(41:59):
I just want to say your name again, like Petrols pop.
But Doc, guess like you could be. I could hype
you up as the most the most thrilling athlete of
all time and with that name, can you I used
to be an athlete and they they had they had
a hard time saying my name back in the day.
Oh I'm sorry, Is that a back that's oral Her.
I interviewed Oral Hershazer last time I was doing so

(42:23):
we got a picture. I am in an old Cougie
sweater the eight back when the Dodgers, last time the
Dodgers won the World Series. Hold on, I'll make it normal.
I love it, man, and I love it. Leave it.
But I used to play football. I'm the captain of
the worst football team in uh USC history. So they

(42:44):
used to say my name all the time back in
the day. Uh But now I say other people's names
and then try my best to get them right for
the last you know, twenty years. Um So, brother, welcome
to the show. So sorry, I'm like, no, no worries
it all. You never lay, never be sorry. Bro, We
appreciate you being here. Michael and I have been diving
into our journeys as professional athletes migrating out of sport.

(43:07):
But then also we're diving into the journey of why
do men love sports so much? Like what is it
about sports that just draws men to sports? We're trying
to answer this question for our female listeners of how
men think they're like, why do you guys love sports?
Petros tell us why we love sports? Well, Uh, that's
many layered but interesting. You know, I'm Greek, so and

(43:31):
I've traveled a lot in Greece, especially when I was
a young person. So uh, going to Greece and going
to those old arenas which are still there where they
would have competition, and it was different back then. Obviously
everybody was naked and all greased up, and uh, the
women who had to hide in the trees if they

(43:53):
wanted to watch a bit of a misogynistic society. Uh uh.
But but the one thing you kind of head out
of it is I mean, there wasn't really any reward
for competing back then, but people competed because really for
the same reason people compete now at its core, which

(44:13):
is the competition itself is just men or women or
whoever competing. But what gets revealed because of the competition
is character and virtue. And I mean, deep down, I
think that's why people are interested, because it's you know,
especially with a football background that I have, which is

(44:35):
a sport that probably shouldn't exist, you know, if if
we had a perfect world. It's a bludgeoning, really tough sport.
But one thing that you can say about every football team, uh,
is there's people young men overcoming adversity, and uh, it's
one thing to do, right, Like, we all kind of

(44:57):
want to do it and be on a team. If
there's a lot of sacrifice. I heard you guys talking
when I was struggling to get on. There's a lot
of real sacrifice involved in doing it at a very
high level and consistently and maintaining that. But we all
like to be on its periphery too. You know, you've
seen the ugliest athletes on the world in the world

(45:19):
with some of the most beautiful partners, and you wonder
what's going you know, well maybe maybe you know, she
didn't know what it's like to score a touchdown, you know,
but she wants to be as close as possible, even
if the guy looks like uh sea monster. So uh,
I mean we've all seen it. Uh. So there's something
there's just something attractive about it that goes way past

(45:43):
uh you know, corporate sponsorship and TV and Buffalo Wild
Wings and you know fat Guy's tailgating and Lincoln Nebraska. Uh,
there is something. There's a human uh drama I guess
that we all want a piece of at some level.
It will take interesting take is that, So I like

(46:05):
that take. That's a different outlook than Michael and I
have covered some of my Michael has touched on that,
but um, what do you think believe? Just further to that,
I love what you said, is that overcoming the the
obstacle or the adversity in the game, there's there's something
revealed about a person's character, virtue, who they are as
a human being, not just who they are as an athlete.

(46:27):
Why do you think what is it that you think
draws you? And I'll ask both of you guys to
be a fan of a specific player where you're like,
that's my guy. What is it in in in that
athlete that you really like? Why like Petro's Why do
you like this picture or this you know, cornerback or

(46:47):
what is it? What is a characteristic that you were
drawn to when watching sports? Well you might be shocked
to know that I like flawed people. Uh so uh
And I was a big, stupid running back. Actually I
wasn't as fat when I played, but I love bludgeoning backs,

(47:07):
you know, I love there was a guy who had
a big, a lot of personal problems. I saw Hi
when I was a kid on the sideline. Um, where Michigan.
My dad played at USC as well, and Michigan destroyed
USC in a Rose Bowl in the eighties and it
was a running back named Leroy Horde who who was
the MVP of the game, and he went on to

(47:27):
have an NFL career, but he had cocaine problems and
all these things that plague athletes, you know, especially in
the eighties, and he had to come back after a
guy got hurt. Robert Smith, who was a colleague of
mine at Fox at Old Ohio State running back who
was trying to get a premed degree at the same time,
made a lot of news back then, and he had

(47:49):
to come back and he had like a fifteen hundred
yard season and they asked him, you know, can you
describe your running style, you know, to to the to
the fans, and he said, well, if you need one yard,
I'll get you three. And he said, if you need
ten yards, I'll get you three. To me, you know that,

(48:13):
to me, it's that kind of humility and that kind
of awareness of your mortality as an apple ate that
I kind of because most guys, obviously to do it,
you've got to feel pretty invincible, and you got to
approach it like that, So little glimmers of stuff like
that really attract me. That's something I'll never forget, you know.

(48:33):
I like that, Michael for you two part question, Um,
what attracts you to be a fan of a player today?
And why were people fans of you? What characteristics did
you have that people made you a fan of you
for sure today? Kind of like Patris said, I like
when I know people's story and they've overcome adversity, like

(48:54):
even taking it back, like I like Michael Vick even
when his glory days in Atlanta, but then the fact
that he dealed with what he out with, came back
and played, Like where else other than sports can you
go from hero to zero and zero to hero again,
like you know what I mean. So it gives you
that platform to be able to control your narrative and
overcome this adversity publicly where instantly, really success can help

(49:18):
change people's image of you based on you know, even
over from what you've gone through negatively. So I really
do like that. And then I mean outside of guys
I know personally, like Ryan Fitzpatrick is my favorite human being.
He was my quarterback in Buffalo the years I spent there,
and and people always what why is he playing for
so many I was like, you meet this guy, you

(49:39):
realize why every team wants them there. And I was like,
that's and he was one of the guys that I
looked up to when I played because I was young then.
And so that's what I would say, Brooks to your
second part of the question is why people were a
fan of me or again enjoyed having me around? Was
because I was a positive energy. I was a smile
on my face. I said hi to people, never too

(50:01):
good to do anything. Always you know, again, like we
talked about before, whether it's Keith the janitor or you
know our GM, So it didn't matter. I was talking
to everybody. I was treating everybody like a peer. And
I think that's why, you know, people enjoyed communicating with
me and having me around. I think a lot of
people I love that man. That's awesome. What they call
that intangibles in sports, those are intangibles that those are

(50:23):
glue guys is like the team wants that guy to
be here. The team is like telling the GM, can
you sign Michael, Like we need him here, we want
him here. Um, those guys are awesome. Those are some
of my favorite teammates of all time. Um I've played
with some world class guys, unbelievably talented guys, and some
of my favorite teammates are guys that's carved out to

(50:44):
ten year careers with UM. I had one one teammate
that was one of my top three to five teammates
of all favorite teammates of all time. And his skills
might have been like minor league level, but he had
such heart, such dedication, so fun, and he's so good
in the locker room, showed up for every single teammates,
so dedicated. You know, just that he carved out an

(51:06):
amazing career for himself and I just have such respect
to that. The other thing that you see is you
in sports. I believe this, there's a lot of As
in any industry, there's good humans and there's bad. In sports,
there are a lot of exceptional human beings. Like you
just said, Ryan Fitzpatrick, there are some human beings the
fabric of the quality of person that they are. They

(51:27):
are leading and spearheading an entire group of people, a city,
a movement, and everybody is watching them and for the
right reason, because they are that kind of a person.
Man or a woman. So I I aligned with that too.
I aligned with the human nature of a person, their
service and and and there, as you said, their mortality,

(51:50):
patrols and their humility and there they're like gratitude for
being part of this city. Not being you played for
the Skins. You were from the DC area. I wasn't.
I was from Canada, but the city welcomed me in
as an adopted son. You know how freaking cool that is?
You know, So I want to represent my adopted family
as best I can. UM. I think that was one

(52:12):
of the reasons I was loved UM. But it's really interesting,
like why why certain people are drawn to certain players? UM.
Let me ask you both this both as former players.
Another question, do you guys get the same adrenaline Russia
when watching as you do when playing as you did
when playing ahead? Uh? For me? I, you know, I

(52:36):
I call games and have been doing it for you know,
since two thousand four for Fox. And I was really
young when I was doing that, and I was calling
the games, you know, specifically Impact twelve games ten at
that time that you know, there were guys that I
had played with, or against, or or recruited, you know,
now I'm forty three, and the guys look like kids,

(52:59):
you know, and face mask and and I like that
about college football because kids make mistakes and it does
make the game exciting. Whereas you know, in the NFL,
the hashbox are closer's. As you know, there's there's no
room to go anywhere unless you have the balls to
go through somebody. And uh. And it makes the level
of football excellent but also a little bit predictable. In college.

(53:22):
I mean, these guys are freaking out. You know, most
of them aren't even used to the crowd and can't
even hear their teammates. I mean, the chaos of it
is really something that I try to continue to connect
with because you know, when when you get older and
you're up in the booth and you have your suit
on and somebody has given you water, and you know,

(53:43):
somebody picks you up and drives you the airport when
it's over, you know, you can become an a hole
pretty fast. Uh. But they've moved me down on the
field for a couple of years. And I did kind
of like a sideline analyst thing for Joel Klatt who
works at Fox, and I kind of smelled the players
you know, wet again and listen to the coaches scream
and just kind of felt the chaos of it. And

(54:05):
that gave me a little bit more adrenaline that I
was used to, you know, covering games. Uh. But you know,
it's kind of funny when you're watching these games without
fans and you're watching guys, you know, Mookie beats, you know,
the most excellent level of athlete out there, and they're
they're playing this really high level without the fans there,

(54:26):
you know, and gosh, you know, channeling twenty years ago.
You know, if you get the ball in a college
football game, a hundred thousand people in the States, they
see the whole. When you see the whole and they
get all you know, they get up too. And you
can't recreate that, you know, you just can't. There's not
enough pores in your body to recreate that stuff. So

(54:46):
I guess the long answer is no, Michael, what about you?
Do you get adrenaline rush watch like you watch your brother?
Do you get the same adrenaline? I mean, nothing compares
for sure when you're the one under the helmet or
anything with the you know, cleats lay sed up. But luckily,
now being far enough and move playing fantasy sports again.

(55:08):
That gets me, That gets me amped up enough. You know. Um,
but I will say to Patriots's point, you know, I
was watching the Tour Championship last round yesterday. I'm a
big golfer and watching these guys were you know, Justin
Thomas and Xander softly, We're kind of making their move
on Dustin Johnson, and you know, Justin Thomas said a
big birdie put on like sixteen, and I just I

(55:29):
was like to myself, I was like, oh, but I'm like,
there's no roar on the TV, and it's just even
a sport as quiet as and calm and professionalist golf,
not feeling that crowd. I was just missing the hell
out of it. I was like, I can't even even
imagine football started on Thursday. I don't even know how
we're gonna It's gonna be the weirdest thing in the world.

(55:49):
If I can't handle watching golf without fans, I don't
know how we're gonna watch football. Hockey's in it right now.
Hockey's in the third round of the playoffs with no fans. Um,
And exactly what you said, there is the reason we
love the reason I love being a professional athlete is
people get to bear witness to your excellence. Right, so

(56:10):
when you make a player, like when I would score
a goal eighteen thousand, twenty thousand, people erupt and as
you said, Petrol, it's like chanting your name, like your number,
like high fiving because of you, Like your name comes
up on the scoreboard and they cheer and they clapped,
like people get to bear witness to the years and
decades that we put in, Michael of pursuing this excellence

(56:33):
to be there. And that's such a thrill. Like I
don't think I don't even come close when I'm watching
to having that same kind of adrenaline rush as as
when playing, just because it was It's just it's such
and it almost breaks my heart. I've actually thought, like,
what can I do in life again where I can
be in front of a stadium stadium audience, because that

(56:56):
is so freaking cool. So, um, I want to I
want to hijacker question Brooks real quick for Patriots because
I've I've personally, I've known enough guys now that that
kind of in the line of work that you are
in Patriots. But I remember even before I did, and
watching commentators or watching sideline analysts or whatever, being like, man,
that's gotta be so easy. All you gotta do is

(57:17):
just talk about it. But I know, now knowing enough
guys in that world, how crazy and how much work
y'all put into it. So I'd love for for Brooks
listeners on the show to understand how difficult, how much
goes into what you do. Now. Well, what's interesting, you know,
is I wasn't, you know, clearly a star football player.
I mean, I was serviceable, But my value when broadcasting

(57:41):
is not like, hey, this guy want a heisman or something.
You know, it turned out being that, you know that
I've had longevity. So I trained a lot of people,
or at least used to. This year is a little walky,
but usually I'm in the booth with somebody else, like
try to train Mark Helfridge, uh Hudgens and Big Hodge
the Hall of Famer. You know, some guys are better

(58:03):
than others, and you know, they all know more football
than I'll ever know. You know, they'll forget more football
than I'll that you know, Uh, I trained to Marco Murray.
He went back to coaching Shane Vereen. We recently trained
so you know, usually I do a three man booth
with a guy and I teach him how to call
a game for Fox. And you know, it's a really
interesting question because it does seem pretty easy. As a

(58:26):
football player. You sit down and you say, oh, they're green, right,
you know, here comes you know, here comes horse to
you know, hot proco or whatever. I mean, you know,
and you just do it. You speak your football language
in your mind as an ex football player, and when
whether it's defense or offense, and you just watch the
guys line up a game. Is calling a game is
so much different. And the one thing to really remember

(58:48):
that I try to teach these guys with TV is
I mean, we're part of this, but it ain't about us.
I mean, we're we're we have a director. I mean,
the cool thing about football on TV is football on TV. Right,
the colors, the pictures, the close up stuff, the slow
motion cameras. You know, if we can show that without

(59:11):
vomiting all over the thing and telling old football stories
about stuff that when no one cares about anymore. Uh,
that kind of stuff is uh is helpful. But you know,
everybody gets caught up. You know, you think it's your
moment and you hear yourself talking and you get all
riled up. So there's a real balance, you know, between
giving everybody their due, like you know, that's your moment,

(59:32):
you know, especially in a college game, like your family
is probably gonna watch that touchdown five times, you know,
on the DVR and everybody in your town, and man,
I gotta get that guy's name right, you know, I
gotta we gotta celebrate that properly. That's his moment, you know,
But you don't want to overdo it too, because we
got pictures. So you know, it's a real balance, uh

(59:54):
to walk. Some people like it, you know, when Tony
Romo tells everybody what's gonna happen. But Michael, you know
that a lot of guys can tell you what's gonna happen,
you know. But we're not supposed to be future tellers
unless the audience wants it. And the audience got really
excited when Romo did it, and now he's getting like

(01:00:14):
forty million dollars to go. Okay, one one question for
both you, because we don't have a lot of time left.
One question for both you start with you, Michael, what
is it that you love the most about sports? In
like two to three sentences, What is it that you
love the most about sports? It's the opportunity for young

(01:00:41):
men and women two to achieve greatness every day, whether
it practice or a game. It's it's their opportunity every
day to grow. And there's tangible evidence typically whether you grow,
you to get Like all of our coaches have said,
you need to get do you get worse every single day.

(01:01:02):
Any athletes heard that. So it's it's an opportunity every
day to do that. Jose, what about you? What is it?
What is the thing that you love the most about sports?
For me? You know, just going to Dodger Stadium and
doing a show, you know, doing our radio show leading
up to the game and seeing all the people that
make Mutch a lot of us. You know, all the

(01:01:23):
people that sports bring together, you know, whether they're working
or playing or watching or coaching, or a special needs
person or people in a retirement home that can't go anywhere,
and it's their pleasure for three hours a day to
hear the game or to watch it. You know, to me,
that's that's its power, you know. It It brings us together,

(01:01:44):
whether you can perform or not. And that especially nowadays
very special. Love is Yeah, mine is uh. I look
at it from an athlete's perspective, because as a former athlete,
mine was the chase of my potential be marrying of
intelligence with the physical capabilities, having to develop both and

(01:02:05):
all of the characteristics. UM, the pursuit of excellence as
a human. To be able to master a craft, I
need to get better in so many ways, not just
physically but mentally spiritually. UM. The discipline and that pursuit
of excellence in order to express myself through the mastery
of a craft. UM. It taught me almost everything I

(01:02:29):
know about myself those lessons good and bad. It taught
me everything almost that I know about myself, and so
that will forever live on with me. So really interesting, guys.
I appreciate, appreciate your perspective. Petro's we gotta let you
go right now, uh, and then uh, Mike will be
back with another little bit with you after the break.
But both of you guys are on a time crunch,

(01:02:49):
so we're gonna be real quick. But thank you Patros
for coming on. My man. Look forward Totimore games. Either way,
you know the world's gonna keep up to it. You Okay, cheers, cheers, buddy,
after this break. What an awesome hour. Michael, you're the man,

(01:03:15):
um Buddy. Where can our community or how a Man
Think podcast community? Where can they get more of you?
Where do you hang out? Social media? The podcast tell
us where they can find more of you, buddy, for sure.
So I'm not on social media. I'm a rare unicorn
of that aspect. But my everything is kind of through
my wife. She she posted enough for both of us,
so it's her. Her instagram is that Creamer Girl. You

(01:03:35):
can go to UM www dot jan might dot com.
We also have our podcast on my Heart Radio wind
Down with Jana and Mike, and we also our book
comes out UM that we wrote called The Good Fight
comes out September twenty two, and you can pre order
your addition right now on Amazon. Man. And you guys
like on the podcast, you guys are too transparent people. Yeah,

(01:03:58):
there's no there's no more skeletons these closets, I'll say that, man.
You guys like you guys, If you haven't listened to
their podcast, check it out because they'll they'll air all
of it and and it's refreshing to see UM, to
see people air disagreements you know in couples, like I think, um,
I think couples too often harbor things and internalize things.
And you guys, you guys are almost the exact. Obviously,

(01:04:20):
you'll share everything. What have you learned the most? What's
been like one big lessons from doing the podcast with
your wife? You know, we have found it is therapeutic
for us because it does it does get us. Talking
has become our our brand per se that we we
discussed these hard topics and these difficult conversations. Um, for us,
it's just it's opened us up even more because we

(01:04:42):
realized that people do want to be open, people want
to be transparent with each other. It's just society puts
this pressure on you to look a certain way, to
act a certain way, to show happiness all the time.
And we're like, look, that's why we titled our book
The Good Fight. Were like, couples are going to fight.
For those of you who don't think you're going to,
it's bs like you're going. It's inevitable. So if you're

(01:05:03):
gonna fight, you might as well do it in a
way that you can grow you all closer together as
opposed to you apart. Yeah, it's a good saying that
I heard um and used it actually just the other day.
Fight for, not fight against exactly, Yeah, fight for. So
what was the but the book writing process, like man,
it was, it was a process. It was a yearlong process.
And in the thing that Jan and I are the

(01:05:26):
most proud of is we wrote every word ourselves. We
didn't have a ghostwriter anybody help us. It was just
us in our office cranking this stuff out. It's from
both of our voices. It's from her voice, from my voice,
and from a wee voice. And it's that way you
really get the tone and the feeling of of what
the the you know, the words coming off this page

(01:05:46):
and and everything. So you you'll feel our motion through
through the pages. And it's a it's a long process
that caused a lot of arguments in itself and you know,
cause a lot of fights and uh, but it was,
it was. It was cool. Man. I've been I've been
asked a couple of times to write a book and

(01:06:07):
I I just haven't dedicated the time to it. I've
been like, I don't know what my purpose with doing
that right now would be. Um, but one one person,
one friend actually gave me a great point. They're like,
it's actually really a great reflection and study of your life.
It will actually really catch you up to speed on
your life and you'll get you'll get insights from it

(01:06:29):
that are that you'll discover that you didn't even weren't
even really aware of because it's you're sharing your heart,
you're sharing your something value. You only got X amount
of pages, So something in your life that's going to
go in there, it's got to be something that that
UM defined there was part of your life in a
massive way that you want to share to help people with.

(01:06:49):
So UM for that journey, did you experience that? Did
you learn a lot about yourself actually through and your
wife your relationship through that journey? Yeah, I think we
really um grew a higher level of respect for one
another because we're writing these pages and reading these words
and we're like like, damn, we've been through a lot,

(01:07:10):
you know, like both of us individually, both of us
as a couple, and it's just like it was. It
was invigorating because it was it was also inspiring because
we're like, hey, we've done all of what we just wrote,
like we can do this, like you know, so it
was there was a form of reflection and gratitude afterwards.
It's like, look at what we what we've overcome, and
I can imagine the same thing, like you said, your

(01:07:31):
friends said to you, like it would be the same
where you you you know, talk about your life and
things you've done. You're like, man, I did that, and
it's really, uh, it really is validating to your soul
to be like, hey, I'm a human being. I've been
through some hard times, but I'm still standing here on
two feet breathing, and I can be present and grateful

(01:07:51):
for that. That's amazing. I love that you and John
are so involved and like, um, commanded you do a
lot of projects. You do the podcast wind Down together,
did the book together. Um, it's a great way. I
admire it from far. I admire it that you both
stepped forward because a lot of couples will actually avoid
that is that's tough stuff to have that much proximity

(01:08:12):
with your partner and that much vulnerability and transparency, and
then to have the world comment on it. Right, not
not even just to show up like that in a relationship,
but to show up like that in a public platform
and forum where then people are going to offer their unsolicited,
just whatever, uneducated opinion on things and judge your relationship
and to have to deal with that. I just commend

(01:08:34):
you both to think you're both kind of pioneers in
the space leading with your heart, and I think you've
inspired a lot of people to open up in their relationship.
So good on you, brother, Thanks man, I appreciate it.
You know. The thing about it kind of touches on
a touch on what we talked about at the beginning
with like the transitional thing, the one thing about you know,
Jane and I work in so much together it would
be hard for any couple of ship. It's going to

(01:08:55):
have its obstacles. And I'm one of those people, Like
my ideal day is like by myself around nobody. Her
idea day is like right next to me, what are
we gonna do all day, every second of the day.
We just have different love languages. And for me, you know,
finding my identity after sports, you know, being married, being

(01:09:15):
with someone of celebrity status that you can relate to,
and and where you go from being your own entity
to now you're so and so's husband, so and so's
fiance and so. I've had times where I've struggled that
we do so much together because I'm like, man, am

(01:09:36):
I gonna have just my own thing? And I know
that there are things will happen. But I did a
I had a normal job a couple of years ago
in l A when we're first leving out there. So
for two and a half years, I did medical sales
and it was a grind, an absolute grind, and but
it was also the most fulfilling the thing that I

(01:09:58):
had done since my plan in days because it was
just me. It was just me doing something, me punching
the clock, you know, my own responsibilities. There's a lot
of fires you gotta put out in that job and
you've got to perform. And so they they love hiring
athletes because of that. So there is something to be
said about working so much together. But early on I
had an issue. Now I've I've been able to realize

(01:10:21):
that I can get out of my own and be like, hey,
this is us doing this. This isn't just me writing coattails.
It's we have our thing together, and that's great, super cool. Brother.
I appreciate that. I respect that. I love that, I
love that your father, love that you're committed to the
relationship and committed to um to the struggle. I say

(01:10:42):
it in my prayers daily. I think I'm thankful for
the blessings and the challenges in our lives because both
of them, both of them become and define who we are.
You know, so they sped to change and challenge and
mold us to become who we are. So, uh my, dude,
I appreciate you. Any of our listeners, check out Wine
down This man is real. Right here, You're gonna get

(01:11:03):
the real deal with Michael and his wife Janna. Um
Until next week, Michael, thank you so much. I could
go on, dude, we gotta have another conversation about the
athlete anything. We can go on all day. I love
it one forever. But I love what you're doing. I
love that you're finding your groove in uh after first retirement,
Well right, we called first, that's right. I love that
you're finding your group in in whatever you move forward,

(01:11:25):
and a lot of the characteristics from being an athlete
will serve you in this next chapter. So thank you
for listening. Everybody. Until next week, take care of one another,
love one another, and we'll see you back here for
another episode of How Man Think Brooks, Thanks Buddy,