Pandemic Dating

Brooks is joined by Love is Blind star Mark Cuevas to discuss flirting, dating, finding love during a Pandemic. Dr Wendy Walsh helps guide them and you through it all

And ladies, knowing how men think could be the essential key to perfecting your own love life!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is how Men Think with Broths and Gavin de
grab and I hear radio podcasts. Welcome to the show.
My name is Brooks, like I will be your host
for today, and we're diving into a unique topic. A
couple of weeks ago, we had a great discussion where
we we discussed diving into the d M sliding into
the d M s, and the response from that show

(00:22):
was amazing. We're trying to help people connect during the
time of COVID, and so we've kind of wanted to
piggyback that with this discussion, and we have two great
guests coming on. Today's discussion is about making connection during
a time of COVID. So dating during COVID, how has
it done? Is it possible? A lot of people are
really discouraged right now saying that they're they're just writing off.

(00:45):
They're not going to find any love or partnership or
connection or intimacy in there, just writing it off. But
we have a special co host with us today that
is going to inspire and empower you guys because he
has his own personal success story of dating during COVID.
So he was a personal trainer, life coach, entrepreneur. He's

(01:09):
got a degree in sports medicine. You probably best know
him as the American reality TV star for having appeared
on Netflix his first season of Love Is Blind. Mr
Mark Quavis, Welcome to the show, brother my man. Thank
you man. That quite the intro, quite the true dude. Uh,
first off, how was that show? That's because that's a

(01:30):
crazy show, so once once, I just want to say
thank you for being on the show, dude, and I'm
excited your story because it's gonna inspire our community. But
let's I just want to briefly touch on that. How
is that show? Dude? I mean, it's kind of similar
to what we're going through kind of right now, right
like love is like Love is Blind, except the fact
that you know, it's this distance. You know, that's the
only difference. But when we are I was on the show,

(01:51):
it was nothing I've ever experienced. I was the youngest
guy on the show, was twenty four years old at
the time, and I mean, to kind of go into
this dating experience and to not see the person was
just so weird. It was Honestly, when they were explaining
it to us before we even walked on set, I'm
just like, I mean, I kept saying why not, let's
try it, And I'm like, uh, we'll see how it goes.

(02:12):
And then once you're in it, it's so crazy to think, like,
when you're talking to someone without seeing them, how how
much more vulnerable you become because you're not worried about
what they think about you, Right, You're just kind of
like in it, you're just yeah, it's almost like therapy
in a weird way, but but with an emotional connection
attached to it. And so you're just talking to them
and you feel like you can be yourself. And so

(02:34):
it kind of like because the first thing we do
with dating now nowadays is like what do they look like?
How hot are they? What? What does the physical look like? Right?
And so the show kind of taught me is you
know what's inside, like what what does their emotional state like?
So it was a crazy experience. Man, I commend you
for going on it. Man, I commend you for like, um,
diving in and committing to that process. Because when if

(02:57):
I look at my dating history, uh, full training, parenting, Yeah,
looks were like the first thing that caught my eye,
you know. And and it's terrible to say, but I
was most likely probably judgmental of people. Um, I don't
know if judgmental is right word, but like, oh, they
don't seem like a partner for me, or oh I'm
not interested in that person just based off of looks
of seeing somebody across the room. And I also know, um,

(03:22):
I also know that when you meet somebody, you can
become a lot more attracted to them just by talking
to them and getting to know them. You're like, Wow,
that beautiful even though really at when I first met them,
they didn't stand out to me in that way. So actually,
I think it's wonderful. I commend you for committing to it.

(03:42):
I mean, man, you hit the nail on the head.
It's just like even from myself, like when I would
go out with my friends, right, it's like you kind
of base that person when you're at the bar and
restaurant like oh, like yeah, like I don't think they'd
be right for me. But then even if you find
a beautiful person physically, sometimes not the most beautiful people
on the inside, you know what I mean, and it
comes to find out. So it was definitely an experience

(04:03):
that taught that humbled me in terms of dating. Wow,
I can't imagine so how did you how did you
find you were able to make connections without being able
to see the person? Uh So, what was so cool
about the show is that it wasn't just like produced
from my people that are just in like you know
a bunch of Netflix shows, right. They had like relationship experts.

(04:25):
They had um, I think, uh something psychologists, like some
psychologists that help to like just help a couple of therapists.
That's what it was. And what they did for us
is gave us like a list of questions. Right now,
They're like, you don't have to use this at all,
like you but these questions are made by these people
to like, if you ask it and someone's receptive to it,

(04:46):
typically it's going to get a deeper response than just
like what's your favorite color? Right? And so like what
one of them was, what's your biggest fear? You know?
Or if you like, my favorite one was if you
had three people to eat dinner with dinner alive, who
would they be and why? It's like these fun questions,
but what they do is that they they allow you
to see what the other what's important to the other person,

(05:06):
and and then all of a sudden you're involved in
the conversation because you're listening and you're engaged, and then
you're like the next thing, you know, an hour passes
by and you're like, holy crap, like what what just happened?
Like and now it's like you trust them more because
you feel like you know that person more, you know
what I mean, Um, super cool. Yeah, I'm just thinking
about that, um, and thinking about as I've gotten older.

(05:27):
I mean, when I was twenty, probably everything was based
off looks, you know, and then as you get older
and you get to as I got to thirty, it
was more going on a date was more about like
the discovery of this person, Like, yeah, the asking better questions,
Like when people go on dates, there's a lot of
very much surface level conversation. Um. And I've thought about

(05:51):
this problem even with friends. I try, I try and
work on into my life just in better like the
discovery of this person doesn't even have to be romantically
but a French hip. And I think it's wonderful that
that you guys asked those higher level questions, the deeper
things questions did I mean, that's that's the biggest thing,
is that like we're all like there was a time

(06:11):
like I think early on in college that when I
when I was dating somebody, we dated for like two years,
and I feel like even like once I went into
this experience right with Love is Blind, is like I
felt like I knew more about the people on the
show than I did with the girlfriend that I had
for two years, you know what I mean, because like
it was all like it wasn't like it was all service.
She was amazing person. It was it was awesome, like
she's she's great. It's just we didn't dive deep, right.

(06:35):
There was no like I know who you really are
to your core because of these questions and challenges, and like,
you know, it wasn't like that to obviously I was young,
I was younger, but but to know about it now,
it's just kind of crazy to say, like how important
it is to get to know somebody, your friends, your family,
have just sit down, have some quality time and just
ask these questions. Like literally, a Google search can give

(06:58):
you like a hundred like deep thought, thought provoking questions
and you're like, oh, I like that one. I like
that one, and just ask and see what happens. You know, Um,
here's a question for you. Did you find that since
you couldn't see this person's face. Did you find that
you were a more attentive and involved listener? I think
when I wasn't you know what we had? What happens

(07:20):
when we're sitting in front of someone, right, we're looking
at the eye contact, worried about, you know, the the
other thought process, what they're thinking it. I just was
so relaxed and I didn't feel any pressure of like
just being something that I wasn't right. I just felt
like I just had to be myself, you know what
I mean? And for me when I saw like myself

(07:41):
towards the end of the show, it was just it
was still being me and like I didn't worry about
what she thought of me or nothing like that. It
allowed me to really listen to what her fears were
and her thoughts about marriage and all this stuff where
it says it really was comforting to know that, like
without that sight unseeing that I could be myself. How
did it feel when the reveal came? Oh? Man, the

(08:04):
initial thought I was freaking out. I'm not gonna lie
like I was what you gonna think of me? Or
what am I gonna think of her? I was like,
what's she gonna think of me. Honestly, that was my
initial thought because I'm like, oh man, like I was
in it, Like when I tell you, I was like,
you know, head over heels, the whole, the whole nine yards.
You know, obviously in that relationship didn't work out. But
like in the reveal day, man, like my knee, I

(08:26):
was like, don't look at your legs. I don't want
to fall back, Like just like go back. Just just
stay straight up, man, don't just stay straight up. You're
gonna be okay. Just breathe and like the second the
doors just open, I'm like, oh god, oh man. It's
like I can The only way I can explain it
is like when I used to play football in college.
Like my thing was right before we walked out where

(08:47):
you're like getting hyped, I was bouncing like this. I
was like just like here we go, Here we go.
I was like I was looking at the guy behind
the camera. He's just laughing at me because I'm just like, bro,
like I don't can't control this. This is just right now.
That's awesome, man, that's awesome. So um do you think
you would be? So a lot of a lot of

(09:07):
dating now is done during like doing FaceTime or zoom
calls or that kind of thing, Like do you think
this experience would have like set you up to be
a pro. You should do a masterclass on like FaceTime
dating or zoom calls. Honestly, man, it's kind of the
same thing, you know, except for FaceTime. You know, you
get to see the person, but you're still not there

(09:28):
with them, right, It's still that physical presence, and like
it almost with FaceTime, it allows you to kind of
just be yourself too, because you're just kind of like, hey,
like you're not right next to me, you're but you're
still communicating from a distance, right, And so I mean,
hell if they wanted for me to do masterclass on zoom,
like I meantime zoom, but FaceTime let me. So you
guys had met once, but then this emotional connection is

(09:53):
that established essentially digitally, so it's kind of flirtatious. You
can tell you're investing your energy in each other. Do
you think that like that build up and actually that
COVID might have benefited you there that kept your distance
and then you could when you met each other, you
already had this investment of energy even though it was digitally.
But you had this investment energy and you could sort

(10:13):
of hit the ground running. Almost felt like you knew
each other without the awkwardness of being, um, you know,
meeting for the first time. No brother. Like I'll tell
you this, like when we first I mean met, you
know what I mean, Like we met at this this
place called the Garden Room in Atlanta. It's a nice
little restaurant. It was like the day before lockdown happened. Man,
like literally the day before and you know, I I

(10:36):
she kind of like came up to me, wanted to
take a picture or whatever. But then we started talking
and like you know, I kind of I kind of
throw a little like joke in there. She threw a
little joke and me, and I'm like, oh, she can
kind of like throw it back and forth, you know,
because you know right away she's interested in this is
like yeah, yeah, I knew. I knew. It was like
an instant just like okay, like this banter that we

(10:57):
had going back and forth, and like I was, you know,
I got an number, and then you know, the you know,
she disappeared the rest of the night. She went with
her friends, and you know, she's originally from Cleveland, so
all her friends that lived in Atlanta. She kind of
disappeared with them and left, and I was with Cameron,
my buddy from the show, and you know, I didn't
even think about it until, like, you know, because the
quarantine happened, and so it was all this kid like right,
It's like we didn't all this uncertainty of you know,

(11:19):
what's gonna happen. This virus is what, you know, whatever,
So I'm not even thinking about like, okay, relationships, dating whatever,
or even talking to someone. And then all of a sudden,
like she messed you know, she kind of messaged me
on Instagram and like you know, she was like, hey,
you know something about still having her number, and then
I did the same thing, and like we started talking
right there. We like just that d M back and forth,
and then I started texting her and it just built

(11:41):
up until like this kind of okay. Then we started
talking on the phone and then we started face timing.
And one day she was just jokingly around, jokingly. I
guess I thought she was joking, goes, I was like, hey,
or I was joking. I go, hey, like, why don't
you come down this week to Atlanta? Because she lives
in Cleveland, and she goes, I'll be there this weekend,
and I was like, whoa, Okay, maybe next week. I
was like, are you serious? She was like yeah, no,

(12:02):
I'm down. And I was like, let's try next week.
So she's really one week. I pushed it one week
because I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready, man, I was like,
oh because it was like a Wednesday. It was like
a Wednesday, which when we did that, and so I
was just kind of like, uh crap, like like let's
let's try next week just so I can like like
get myself ready. I don't know, I don't know why

(12:24):
I pushed it back. And plus things were still a
little closed closed down down here that way, you know,
when she finally came down, and so when you know,
when she finally came down, things were finally opening up
down south, but in Ohio they were still closed. And
so she came down right, and I had never been
so kind of nervous because like, mind you we've been
like face timing and talking right and it's like emotional

(12:44):
anticipation and like I'm like driving my car and I'm
just all right here here we go, like you know,
and I haven't did I haven't been like that since honestly,
like maybe high school. I would say, like maybe college.
Like the first couple of days, you go on a
date with someone and like, dude, I'm cool as a cucumber.
I go out, you know what I mean. If I'm
out on the day, I love to ask the questions,
get to know, you know, the girl, talk to them

(13:06):
and you know, just know their story. And I was nervous,
you know what I mean, and my like I was
just on the show. But it turns out she was
just as nervous as I was. I really think that
connection that we had from quarantine and talking and like
you know, it was fast paced. It was right off
the bat. It was just one day and boom, like
you know what I mean. It was like somewhere in
the middle of you know, May and something like that,

(13:26):
and then boom, it just like popped up. And then
she came down to visit, and man, it just you know,
one thing led to another and now she's my girlfriend now,
so that's amazing. It's crazy. We started going back and forth,
so like once she visited Atlanta, I was like, this
was amazing, and so let me go Like one Sunday
she just booked me a ticket to go to Cleveland.
She was like literally was just like, hey, like, you know,

(13:48):
I want you to come up here, and I you know,
I want you to you know, see where I live
and meet my friends and stuff. And dude, I went
up there and I was like, yeah, that's the person
I want to talk to and it was there. I
love this so inspiring for our community that that real
personal can connection can come out of you know, digital connection.
If people right now, um are talking to somebody through

(14:09):
text or through d M s or something that that
there is a light at the end of the tunnel,
versus saying well it's just fun enough, but I'm never
gonna meet them, Like you are a living example and
inspiration for a community that yes, it can happen, and
it can it can be amplified when you meet the person. Well, yeah,
I agree with you a hundred tempers. Sorry, Like I

(14:30):
just think, like putting yourself out there is so important
and like just taking that chance, right, Like I never
in my entire life thought I'd be in Cleveland, Ohio. Ever,
I'm gonna be honest with you, like it's a couple
hours away from Chicago, but I'm never like, oh, like,
you know, Cleveland, how nothing agains for the people of Cleveland.
They're all amazing. I like, all people clean that I
met have all been great. So it's just I never
thought I'd be in Cleveland and who would have thought?

(14:51):
Just me keep me like why not? And why not?
And you know, and just doing that back and forth
with someone that I didn't even know, but we communicated enough,
got that can action, and then after we met in person,
it just like kind of sealed the deal with you know.
So what was your like just trying to dig into
your mindset with this mark? What was your personal experience
with that? Was it ever like what am I doing?

(15:12):
I'm crazy I messaging this girl that's in Cleveland? Or
was it or was it always just invested with your heart? Like, wow,
I don't really care about the distance right now, I
don't really care about the current conditions in the world
with COVID. I'm invested in this person and what's gonna
come of it will come of it. What was your
personal journey mindset was a little bit of both, And
I'll be honest, a little bit of like the first

(15:33):
thing you said of you know, kind of like what
am I doing, you know what I mean, But like,
but in the at the same token, I was kind
of following my gut, following my heart and like just
really like and it sounds cheesy, right, Like, I'm, you know,
the type of guy like I put a wall up. Man,
I'm not, you know, I on the Don't get me wrong,
I'm very I can be very vulnerable with people that
I trust, but like I put a wall up, you

(15:54):
know what I mean? And yeah, man, I just I'm
not like an open book as my even I'm an
extrovert and I love talking to people, you know what
I mean, I'm still like I close off, you know,
to the people like that I'll let in and like it.
It allowed me to when I kept following my gut
and following my heart with this situation, I just I
did it, and I just said, you know what, why

(16:14):
not screw it? And and and now I think it
just gave me this opportunity to find somebody because of
that mentality and like, I just trust yourself, man, I
think that that was the big the big message for
me was just trusting myself the entire time. Because, don't
get me wrong, it's crazy to think like four days
I spent in Cleveland turned into two weeks. You know.
I went to Cleveland for four days the second time around,

(16:36):
and it turned into a two week like stay cationed
with her and like, you know, getting to know her
family and friends and all this stuff. And I'm like,
what in the world that's going on, you know, And
I just trusted. I just I just went with I
just went with the flow. And now, man, I couldn't
be happier. Honestly, I'm so happy for you. I'm also
happy that you you allowed yourself to go with that
versus pull back from that. A lot of people back

(16:59):
from that and be like this is crazy, they should
be doing this, and that's actually a very limiting mindset,
versus you actually embracing a little bit of chaos, a
little bit like wow, this is unknown territory, but like
I embrace it because I'm actually involved in this person.
It's it's a credit to you, and I'm glad that
you guys, um that you guys are thriving for it.
And it's it's funny that you say that, Like, I

(17:21):
think that vulnerability that I had in the beginning of
like following my gut right has allowed me not like again,
I I am emotionally invested. I am, you know, everything
connected with this person. And it's allowed me to be
a better communicator. It's allowed me to because I think
when we go halfway in, it's like you know, putting
your toes in the water just to see if it. Like, dude,

(17:41):
you just gotta Sometimes you just gotta go and like jumping,
because you're gonna miss an opportunity and things are gonna
go by, and like the right person is gonna go by.
Maybe you didn't talk to that person at the restaurant,
or didn't at the bar wherever outing, or maybe we've
all been we've all felt that kind of regret. I'm like, damn,
I should have said something right. And this is the
first time that I've in like I'm not I'm not

(18:02):
going to have used in this water. I'm going I'm
jumping in and I'm gonna see how this goes and
if it, if it works out, I did it every
I gave it everything I had, Just like in Sportsman.
It's like if I go, I give it all I got.
If it doesn't work out, I'm gonna learn something important
from this, and in turn, I have grown exponentially, as
a man, as a partner, just everything, because I I'm

(18:23):
invested everything, you know what I mean, I'm invested. I
love it when I hear you speak about that. I
think of an analogy that I use in my life
is two feet in. So if you step in and
your two feet in, it's showing full presence, is showing
I am here. And it can be in It can
be in relationship, it could be a career, it could
be in anything, friendships, it can be in whatever a

(18:44):
project you're working, like you're just showing up. I'm like,
I'm showing up. I am here. And the beauty of
that is that maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't,
but you showed up fully versus living your life in
the alternative, which is putting one foot in but keeping
one foot out because I might want to pull out.
I might want to like I'm not sure, this might
be difficult, it might be hard, and you just give

(19:05):
yourself that beautiful easy exit that is toxic to people's life.
So many people relation, but they'll they'll keep options on
the side, or they'll only open in a certain amount
of their heart because like I just I just want
to have an exit. I just want to protect myself.
And you went two feet in and do you're living
the happiness, you're living the rewards from it. So man,

(19:27):
oh my god, dude, I couldn't have said it better. Honestly,
everything you just said, it's like two feet in. That
is like because I've been that. Man, I'm in the past,
like you know what I mean, Like I've been that
halfway like you said, like that, oh I got my
exit strategy or oh let me you know, if this
doesn't work out, then it's fine, I'll be okay like whatever,
but like it's scary as hell. I'm gonna be honest

(19:48):
with you, man, I'll be frank. It's like it is
scary as hell to just kind of give yourself, like
to give someone that your piece of your heart, especially
vulnerable like that, right, and you know again, I put
walls up. And I'm not like the type of guy
that's like, oh my god, I'm emotional whatever. It's like, no,
like this connection that I found at the beginning, like
when when I first met her and it lasted, you

(20:09):
know whatever, Like all that time and the anticipation until
we finally met kind of gave me that like Okay,
like this is this is gonna work, you know, I
I feel it. It's real and even if it doesn't
work out in in this relationship a long term, then
like I committed to it, and that to me is
like the world's biggest lesson. You know. Yeah, Um, Mark,
I'm gonna ask you because I've been through this as well.

(20:30):
I've been two feet in and I just want to
see if our journeys were parallel. Um, Stepping two feet
in didn't mean that I didn't have any hesitation, didn't
mean that I that I wasn't guarded at all and
opened everything up. I was still like an onion that
had like you had to peel and it had to
get in. It wasn't just oh, two feet in and

(20:51):
my heart is wide, wide open um. But what it
was was it was two feet in saying I'm committed,
I'm here, I take my step ups forward. Um, I'm
also scared. I'm also unsure and uncomfortable because I've never
been here before. But I know that this is right
for me and whatever comes from this will come. But please,

(21:12):
you know you hope you have a partner that respects that,
and we'll handle you somewhat gently at your pace. Some
people are better at opening up right away. Other people,
like you said, you have guards up, like you can
take your step forward with two feet and be present
committed into this relationship, but also be like yeah, and
I'm still working to try and fully open up and

(21:33):
fully get there with you. But like I'm here, so
just please, you know, please help me along the way. Dude.
That's exactly like ten percent. It's not like just because
I'm two feet in committed doesn't mean that I'm not like,
oh like wow, and you know again, if you don't
cuss on this program, I'm sorry. I'm just like but

(21:54):
like it's just it's it's just trans to be transparent. Man.
It is scary as hell because you're just you're not
used to It's not that you're not used to it,
it's just it's that ultimate vulnerability, right, and for that,
but think about it for that other person, right, just
as much as I want them to be patient with
me and this journey, it's like you almost have to
think about like like it's like that's saying like their

(22:14):
love languages, right, what how do they how do they love?
How do you love it? And how do they love?
And you're you're literally taking into consideration another person person's
pace as well. Like it's it's not just you. It's
like when you're two feet in, I feel like that's
when you're the most present. And when you have someone
else that's two feet in, it's just like it's a
revolving door. Man, it just goes. It keeps going and

(22:35):
keeps going and keeps going. And like it's scary though,
because you don't want it to stop, you know, and
you know, I'm just being honest with you, just being honest.
It's it's it's a scary thing. But I think that
that's what the ultimate courage is to jump in and
take that step, because if you don't take that shot,
you could be missing out on the world's best relationship
or best experience even if it doesn't work out. So

(22:55):
well said, so Well said, There's another way to say
it is like burn the boats, like get on the
island and burn the owns. Like when you build in
an exit, when you build in a plan, be in
an exit. Um, I just believe you're gonna find a
way to it. Because life is hard, man, relationships aren't hard.
You will be challenged, things will go wrong, and if
you have that built in. It's why I like, my

(23:15):
dad is like, what are you gonna do if you
don't make the NHL and become a hockey player. I'm like, Dad,
there is no other option. I'm gonna make it like
that's because the only thing I see, you know, it's
the only thing I see. And so even with the relationship,
maybe heartbreak does come in your In your case, you're happy,
and I hope that for and I pray for that
for everybody that they're happy. But maybe heartbreak does come,

(23:36):
or it doesn't work out. You at least know at
the end of the day, you step forward, You were there,
You gave it a chance. The universe isn't perfect. Not
everything is gonna work out. You're gonna have some trials
before you have your victories, you know, But you stepped forward.
And I want to encourage our community, our listeners, take
your steps forward, show up, give your true authentic self

(23:58):
and from that the best growth. Like you said, happiness,
it's the only way you're ever gonna fully find the
happiness that we're all searching for. The happiness is right
on the other side of that fear, you know. But
I commend you man for doing that, for opening your
heart and stepping and saying I'm scared. I'm damn, I'm scared.
Like if you look, I'm a duck fluttering my feet
under the walker there. I might look calm, but like

(24:20):
this is a learning process for me too. But I
just said it perfect. You said it perfect, And I
think like another thing too, for the for the community, man.
And this is just like that touching thought is like
there's no such thing as that like notebook smoothie style relationship. Man.
It's not that's like the these relationships that have like

(24:41):
one problem and then they solve it and then everything
is good at that one moment. It's like it's you
think about how two people you grow up two different ways, man,
and it's like you have to understand that when you
meet that person, it's not just the The journey doesn't
stop when you meet them and then they're your boyfriend
or girlfriend. It doesn't stop there. That's it's just getting started.

(25:01):
Because now you're just like, oh wow, like you're raised
this way. I was raised this way. But as long
as we got to say principles, we're gonna make it
work this way. Oh you like celebrating Thanksgiving, I like
to and and it's just little things that like, but
then you fall in love with those little things, right
you see those the way they act, the way they communicate,
and like then you start to kind of like work
together and like it's not this fairy tale story book,

(25:24):
but the trials, like you're saying, the hardships are what
makes it kind of beautiful, if that makes sense, you
know what I mean. Like it's it's like people are
too scared for the hardships. They want the fairy tale.
And my point, you know what I mean, they want
that fairy tale. Happy happy happy happy Happy is an
emotion you gotta understand. It's like you gotta understand like
when you go through life, life is tough and if

(25:45):
you've got another person there that's got your back and
you guys are gonna get through these hard times. And like, dude,
that's why not take that leap of faith? You know,
but just having that perspective of like, relationships aren't easy,
but they're they're like a good challenge, you know that,
then it's easier to take that next step forward because
no matter what, you're gonna win, like learn something. So
why do you think people aren't able to do that,

(26:07):
just in your opinion, Why were you able to and
why why do some people? Because I had a friend
yesterday I was talking to. I provided an amazing solution
and he provided a problem with it. I provided another solution.
He's three hours away from here, has to get here
in two days. I was like, rent a car. He's like, no,
I don't want to do that. I was like, take
the bus. He's like, I don't think I guys should
do that either. I was like you could fly. He's like, well,

(26:29):
I don't know about airports. And I was like, how many?
How many solutions do I need to provide that You're
just gonna find a problem for dude, I think I
think what it is. And like I said, like I said,
like I said in the beginning, I like, I've been
that one ft in one foot out right, we've what
we've been there, I think when you know I've I've
faced certain challenges in my life. You face challenges in

(26:50):
your life, right, and like you know, even being a
professional hockey player, man, the pressure of the scrutiny, the
things that you've had to endure, Like I've had my
own rock bottom and like I've pulled myself out of it.
And I think a lot of folks are running from
their past and running from things that mistakes that they've
made or sayings that their family has made, and they
don't want to end up like something that they don't like.
It's like that public ridicule right there. It's like they're

(27:12):
worried about what everyone else is thinking. In my opinion,
I think that folks are scared to take the next
step because they haven't either forgiven a past mistake or
they don't want to end up looking like someone that
it was like the talk of the family, right, We
all have have those family members that like, Wow, I
can't believe Joe married that person and like oh my god,
like oh, like can you believe that? Like wow, they

(27:35):
just up and like, you know, like if you care
too much about public opinions and if you keep living
in your past, like I think that you're always going
to be scared to take that next leap because the
past is comfortable, it's what you know, and you don't know.
No one knows what a new relationship is gonna be.
You don't know, like, yeah, you have the possibility of
getting your heartbroken, You have the possible possibility of like

(27:56):
you meet their family, you get in you know, you
get in deep with them, and you you almost like
connected with them, and then all of a sudden doesn't
work out. But at the end of the day, who
are you after that? You know, like who who are
you after your rock bottoms? Who am I after my
rock bottoms? Right to to this point now, it's like
I think people are scared to make that next step,
but it's like that's where the ultimate freedom is, and

(28:18):
that's where the ultimate growth is, like the person you
become after that rock bottom man, Like, even if it
doesn't work out, it's like, you're better than who I
was three years ago. I would personally me, I would
slap myself like through who I was three years ago,
you know what I mean, like like three years ago,
like you could even five years ago, six, Like it
doesn't matter. It's like, but I'm where I'm supposed to be.

(28:38):
So I know that I have that ultimate confidence now
that because I've forgiven myself for my mistakes and I
don't care what other people think about me in terms
of like my family or whatever. I care what my
parents think, but in terms of like everybody else and
stuff like that. I'm like, I got myself to make proud.
So if I messed up in a relationship or something
like that, the only thing that's gonna happen I'm I'm

(28:59):
not I'm not gonna cheat on them. I'm not gonna
do dumb stuff like whatever. It's like, I'm gonna be
honest and as long as I gave it, I'm not
going to regret it, you know, and then I'm going
to be a better person after that. So what do
I got to lose at that point? And when you
have that mindset and when you are kind of like
happy for the challenges, you're like, oh, this is an
opportunity for us to grow together. And it's okay if
they don't want to. But like, I think that's what

(29:21):
people are scared of, is so like step away from
what then like what they're comfortable with, Yeah, very much.
And so it's a limiting It's it's a limiting characteristic
or belief mindset in their life, and so the results
will only be so much or they'll look at it
with the confused the rest of their life. I can
never got what they wanted in life. It does take

(29:41):
I'll say this in total, total transparency and honestly for
the community. It takes courage. Sometimes you just need to go.
You have to step forward, you have to commit, you
have to open yourself up. It takes courage and the
community will know when those moments common just have courage
in them. Rather. I love your story. I hope it's
an inspiration for our community. It for sure it is

(30:01):
somebody that found the connection and partnerships during COVID amazing,
Uh Mark, where can I find you? Where can they
get this daily dose of inspiration? Brother? So I'm on Instagram, Twitter.
I am also on YouTube now. I got a YouTube
channel like building Up. So that's everything. Is my full name,
Mark Anthony Quavis. I know my mom wanted me to

(30:22):
be almost like the singer I guess, but Mark Anthony
Quavis with an underscore YouTube just tide to my full name.
And yeah, that's kind of like where I live off
right now is just my personal training. I do fitness,
just my life and yeah, there's everything. That's where I'm at, man,
And you're training for a fight, right training for a
fight next year one when everything starts stay tuned. I'm

(30:44):
you know I've been training everyonere actually trained this morning too,
so trained this morning. Man. It's it's it's so just
like I I fought last year, I won my first fight,
and now I'm ready to like, Okay, now let's like
step it up the competition and go back into it.
And now I'm ready to like trying hardcore right now.
It's like we're still in those parameters, like still taking
it like you three times a week or whatever. But

(31:05):
like once that trainee camp starts, man, it's tigned to go.
It's signed to go. I can't wait to tune in.
I'm gonna be just I was just like, let's go, brother.
I appreciate you, appreciate your inspiration. Thank you so much.
You've given our You've given our community hope in a
time where so many people are lacking it. So I'm
happy for you, buddy. Send my best to your lovely

(31:27):
gal um and we'd love to have you back on here.
Let's connect again, bro. I love to man, appreciate it
seriously and the opportunity to be on man, and it's
just stay safe, stay blessed. Thanks Mark. Okay, we'll be
right back after this break with another special guest that's
gonna elaborate a little bit more on this. Thanks Mark
be Well, but back from the break, Mark was awesome.

(31:54):
Mark vis was awesome. I hope that that inspires our
community that you can find connection, you can find partnership
in this really unique time of COVID. And now we
have another super special guest that's going to give us
some more insight on this topic plus much more. We
have an amazing, amazing lady. Her name is Dr Wendy Walsh,

(32:14):
and she She's an award winning television journalist. She's a
current radio host and podcaster new to the podcast game
at kf I A M six forty heart, I heart media.
She's the author of three books, uh and thousands and
thousands of print and digital articles. And this is my
favorite thing. She was a Person of the Year of
Time magazine in seventeen. That is so cool. Um. She

(32:38):
teaches in the psychology department at California State University. Welcome
to the show, um, Dr Wendy Walsh. I'm happy to
be here. Canadian, my fellow Canadian, my buddy. I always
say that when I meet Canadians, I'm like, my buddy.
I just feel like, yeah, I feel like I want
to serve you some Putine A. Yeah, you're from Adi,

(33:00):
starn't you. That's right? I miss what here's a quick question.
We'll get to everything on the talk about. But what
do you miss most about Canada? Um? Because you live
in the US now, yes, I've I've lived half my
life there and half my life here, and I have
dual citizenship, and so I really feel both things. Um,

(33:21):
I would say collectivism. And it's sort of ironic that,
you know, because most Canadians believe that what is good
for the masses is good for the individual, and most
Americans believe what is good for the individual is ultimately
good for the masses. And I left because of the
collectivism because I was such an individual and I didn't
like how repressive it felt. But then what I got

(33:42):
into the business of motherhood and raising children, I was like, uh,
Canadians are more supportive of families. In America. You feel
really on your own, And so I do miss it.
I mean, we don't call us socialists by any means.
We're definitely capitalists in Canada. But it's see, there's are
more social programs to support people. It's it's amazing what

(34:06):
you just said, because I'm actually studying it. In my life.
I'm actually reading a book on it. Um, group flow,
group flow versus the individual flow. Individual flow is really easy.
What am I doing? What are my needs? How can
I this is what I need at my time, my schedule,
my right. That's individual flow. But group flow is organizing

(34:27):
power of multiple and so like on a team, That's
why I love team sports. We really nailed group flow. Um.
You needed to come together and have chemistry to to
execute on the ice together as a hockey player, as
a team. Um. But then also you had to get
to the bus at the same time, the plane at

(34:47):
the same time, the hotel, the team dinner, and if
one person was off, the whole group flow was thrown off.
And so it's I've been thinking and this book that
I'm reading touches on group flow through a digital world,
which is fascinating, Yeah, which is what we're now really
living in, especially during COVID. So I kind of want

(35:08):
to touch on that. Like we just chat with Mark
about marks a success story during COVID, how he found
connection and partnership during COVID through the digital world through
some texting, some messaging, eventually phone calls and FaceTime. Um,
I just want to get your insight onto that based
on your experience, Like, is it possible for people? Mark

(35:31):
has proven it to be true. But for the masses
who are struggling right now, maybe feeling alone or lonely
or hopeless, can they find connection during this time? Can
they find a group flow while disconnected from their friends
or people? Yeah? And I mean you can think brooks
of a relationship as the ultimate group right. And we're constantly,
even in our most intimate romantic relationships, in a struggle

(35:55):
between preserving our autonomy and joining the union because brains
can accomplish way more than any single brain can accomplish alone.
And so but the thing that COVID has done, it's
a gift to many relationships because it's such a make
or break time. We have to think about that. You know,

(36:15):
during the history of human evolution, life was such a
struggle and we needed I mean sometimes people will say
that gender roles evolved because we needed somebody to have
sort of an area of expertise and the other person
in area of expertise, and together they created these offspring
that grew, etcetera. I'm not a proponent of traditional gender

(36:35):
roles necessarily, but now we got to a place where,
you know, women didn't need relationships necessarily economically. Uh, we
were all so healthy and living so long. People were
exchanging partners all the time because it just felt okay.
And all of a sudden we hit our first of
our generation, a first big life crisis, and then people

(36:59):
are looking their current partner and going, WHOA is this
the person I want to be within a crisis or
if they're single, they're like, no, no, I need to
look for a specific kind of partner now, someone who's
really got my back, who could help me in this crisis.
So it's up, it's up the value of a relationship.
What do you think, um, Because most people, most people,

(37:21):
when they think of a relationship, they think of like,
how is my life better? They think of the good times? Right,
The most common thought in a relationship is like, Wow,
the good times are so good. This person is so fun.
I love them, They're so kind, gentle hearted. My family
loves them, we love to travel, we love dogs. Whatever
they think of the good times. Do you think that
COVID has really made people reassess like the strength or

(37:44):
lack thereof of their partner in the bad times and
how important that might be as well, because we say
them in our vows when you get married through sickness
and health, good and bad, you know, but it's kind
of the bad is kind of overlooked. We've all like
the good things actally. And of course you're you know,
brilliant question, and you're speaking from the mouth of a
thirty seven year old, healthy, alpha male. So, of course,

(38:07):
relationships about pleasure seeking. What's the good here, right? But
life is a little bit about survival and struggle. We
just haven't been faced with a lot of survival struggles
yet in this generation. So yeah, that's exactly what it is.
It's looking at your partner. I mean, a relationship is
an exchange of care, and a care can take so

(38:28):
many forms. It can be financial care, it can be
sexual care. It can be domestic responsibility care. It can
be emotional support care. It can be physical supportive someone sick.
It can be intellectual stimulation care. And if you look
at a relationship from the outside, it may not look
fair to you, but from the inside, those partners believe

(38:48):
it's a fair exchange. Wow, amazing, Um, what advice would
you have for our community right now that's struggling to
find connection, you know, because so many people want people
are disconnected from their friends and co workers, which most
of us love. You know, maybe don't like our coworkers.

(39:09):
I don't know, but I love mine, everybody part of
this I heart radio team. I love you all. But
further to that, even what about people that are like
struggling to find romantic connection, intimate connection? You know, what
advice would you have for those people? I love that
we shared Mark story. He's an inspiration to our community.
But you know, you host a podcast called Mating Matters,

(39:29):
which deals with connection. Um, what advice would you have
for our community struggling to find that right now? Well,
Making Matters is all about evolutionary psychology and what our
brains have evolved to be and what we're facing in
our current environment, like, for instance, dating apps. So dating
apps are both a blessing and a terrible curse. The

(39:50):
blessing is that from the comfort of your own home,
you don't even have to get dressed up. You can
just swipe through and find so many potential mates. That's
the good side. The downside of dating apps is that
they bio hack your brain. Right. They take advantage of
something called a paradox of choice. So the more choice
humans are given, the less likely they are to make

(40:12):
a choice, and when they do make a choice, they're
less likely to value that choice. So what you have
to do is and remember, apps are not in the
business of getting you to leave the app and find
a mate. Apps are in the business of getting you
addicted to the apps. So it's really important that you
fight the bio hacking by limiting how many people you're

(40:35):
texting and talking to and to get them off the
app as soon as possible, to call them and use
other ways to get information talking uh, face time, using
you know, looking at body language and everything. Um and
and also I want to say one other thing is
that you know, in the early stages of getting to
know somebody, it's really easy to say what I call

(40:58):
on the surface, and you know, I want to one
or two chats. You do want to stay there, You
don't want to go right to the beginning, going So,
how is your relationship with your mom there? Yeah, you
don't a skirt there, but um yeah, I would talk.
I would talk pleasantly about it. Maybe that's why they
don't call me back. I just figured that out. So anyway,

(41:23):
you want to stay light and surfacing for a little bit,
but then quickly you want to be your authentic self.
So rather than just talking about music and movies and
sports and you know, do you like the same color food,
why don't you talk about you know, what a relationship
means to you, what your deepest fears are, what um
you know, what you think you're really good at it

(41:44):
and you're proud of accomplishing, And what things you'd like
to improve on as a human being, what areas you
want to grow? And you start in those places. I
don't know if you've ever done that. New York Times
devised thirty six questions to fall in love. Oh I
have not, but we have to do it. I want
to do it. There's an app as well. So it's

(42:07):
the fascinating because if you it takes about ninety minutes
to go through. But if you do it, you will
have feelings of love for that person. Now, I want
to explain that the feelings of love that you're going
to have are actually feelings of intimacy, and especially for
men who have so many men have been acculturated not
to get in touch with their feelings or share feelings

(42:29):
with other people. Um, when they have that moment where
they start expressing feelings, they're like, oh, it must be love,
right because it's it's thirty six questions designed that start
light and then get deeper and deeper. And I've seen
videotapes of couples that have never set eyes on. At
the end of ninety minutes, they interview them separately and

(42:50):
say how do you feel? And they's a really into her.
It just makes you get to the real core of
the person. Really interesting. Um, that's I definitely want to
at that test or look at that. Um. So for
people that are on dating apps and touched on it
at one point, you touched on it, I thought was great. Um,
limit the amount that you are talking to and how

(43:11):
choice will lead to lack of choice. Really, the abundance
of choice will lead to you having a lack of choice.
How many people would you recommend that somebody? If somebody
is messaging multiple people right now but striving for that
deeper connection, Um, how do you recommend they go about that?
How many people should they talk to you you? Just one? Yeah,
you're not gonna like my news. You might be texting

(43:34):
two or three or four. But once you get one
on the phone, you know, do a human being a
solid and just don't look at the app for a
little while, like even a few days, Like just focus
on one human at least for you know, we're not
talking about getting married or saying this person is my
significant other. We're talking about just allowing them to occupy

(43:56):
the headspace instead of the static in your brain of
comparing three people who wants to be compared anyway, right,
and so just as respect uh. And then when you know,
and it may be that it never advances from phone
call to zoom, or it does, and then from zoom
it might be a socially distanced outdoor date or a
walk or something um. And then maybe even at the

(44:19):
end of that, you might say, you know, it's been
great getting to know you. You might be a good
you know, business contact, or I might have a friend
I could fix you up with. I don't think romances
in the cards for us. But you know, nothing about
like being respectful to somebody. I'm not a big fan
of the ghosting. Now, ghosting when you're just texting makes sense,
but if you've actually met someone and talked on the phone,

(44:42):
to ghost them is like such a whimpy move. Really.
We've had many conversations about that. Many of the questions
we get from our listeners are why do men goes
women goes to? Well, for sure, but a lot of
a lot more. We've had a lot more female messaging
about men doing it um and men definitely guilty of

(45:04):
doing it. I'm not saying women aren't. Well, I'll tell
you the main reason, right so men. It's politically incorrect
to say, but it's the absolute scientific truth. Men want
more sex than women, and men want more partners than
most women. So if they say to a woman, hey,
I'm not really into you, you you should just go away,
they're cutting off a potential sexual opportunity. What if they

(45:26):
have a dry spell, they can circle back to that
girl and go, oh, I'm so sorry. We must have
a technical problem on three G. Exactly what are you
seeing as opportunities right now that weren't maybe so prominent

(45:46):
or present with COVID, Like I look at the world
like everything is an opportunity, right So from COVID, new
businesses are going to come up when other businesses are
gonna shot a new new things are going to come
from this um. New opportunities are being birthed right now
during this unique time where people think this is a

(46:07):
time of lacking you know, like, what what opportunities do
you foresee in the dating world that people are maybe
overlooking or not seeing right now. You know, It's just
another stress or in the environment, and we grow with
all stressors. We are. The reason why we're the animal
that took over the planet is because we have this
ability to adapt to different kind of environmental challenges. Trust me,

(46:28):
we're not the top of the food chain. Lions and
sharks are, right, but we still manage to control even them. So, um,
what I think this is an opportunity for many people
to do is to slow down the early stages of
a relationship and build a little bit of emotional intimacy
before they jump into bed. You know, because we've entered
this no rules relationship revolution, which in some always is great,

(46:52):
it's really great. It's that you're not under this pressure
to have a definition of a relationship too early, and
you can sleep up with whoever you want and and
and experiments sexually with all kinds of things. That's all great,
but that doesn't lead you to that one on one
trust and emotional support. So being forced to stay distant

(47:15):
forces you to use other skills and to talk about
things like the F word, feelings and really really connect
with someone. So I think it's a I think it's
for many people a blessing in disguise. Yeah, that's what
Mark was saying earlier. He said that COVID and the

(47:36):
inability to be in proximity to the person lead to
just a lot of conversation, a lot of discussion, and
the emotional occupying of space in the other person's world
and in your world versus physically being in the space
and having that actually confused things or speed things up
too fast and get too far ahead of ourselves because

(47:59):
you're physically you you might go too fast and you're
really attracting each other. And he said they him and
his girlfriend now girlfriend, really bonded emotionally and that space
in each other's lives grew emotionally through the digital connection.
That then when they met boom, it was just fireworks
when they met. And maybe if it happened differently, maybe

(48:20):
they might have like together. Maybe in real life it
might have fallen apart some way. Maybe they wouldn't have
built that solid foundation of connection and appreciation and discovery
of somebody to allow the physical devent follow it. I
have this theory actually that the brain can't tolerate a
double whammy of physical intimacy and emotional intimacy at the

(48:41):
same time. It's just too embarrassing. So people that head
right into bed um all of a sudden sort of
shut down emotionally, like the emotional growth in the relationship
stops at that point because they're trying to be cool.
And if they're exposing themselves in so many vulnerable physical
ways that it would be just way too much to
expose your heart at the same time. So it often

(49:01):
starting with the physical. While it's a whole lot of fun,
it can be a trick too, because of course it
produces that cocktail of neuro hormones called lust that makes
you feel feelings of love. But you're like, I just
met this person, so how can it be right. One
of my favorite theories of love is by Dr Robert

(49:22):
Sternberg at Stanford and he or Davis, I think said
you see Davis. He does a triangular triangular theory of love.
He studied a lot on intelligence too, and he believes
that love has three prongs. One is passion, which is
that lust we talked about. Other is commitment, and that's
where your brain does a cost benefit analysis and goes, Okay,

(49:45):
so the sex hormones have died down, but our families
like each other and she's nice to my dog, and
they seem like good people, and Okay, I'm gonna make
this commitment intellectually. And the other is emotional intimacy. And
so relationships can have one, two, or three of these prongs. Right.
We all like to imagine that we're going to have

(50:06):
great sexual passion, a good commitment and trust and loyalty,
and that we're going to have emotional intimacy, but that
doesn't always happen. You might have commitment and passion and
that's called a quickie Las Vegas wedding right after you met, Right,
you're so into each other that you rush to make
that commitment. You might have intimacy and passion but no commitment.

(50:26):
And these might be people who are having an affair.
Maybe they have another primary partner, so they have deep
emotional intimacy. Uh. You know, she's talking about the problems
with her husband. He's talking about the problems with his wife.
They really are and they have great sex, but there's
no commitment there, or you might have uh commitment and
emotional intimacy without the passion, and you would call that

(50:48):
mature companion and love like a wonderful set of grandparents
who are like, you know, the sex things done for us,
but we have all kinds of reasons to stay connected. Wow,
that's one. I've never heard that before. That's wonderful. And
I bet everybody is sitting there like me, just like
analyzing a relationship being like, oh, what was present? What
wasn't present when this? Um? So, would you recommend that

(51:09):
couple of couples then would take that and and individually
just explore what they feel is because I think if
you ask both people in the relationship they might you
might get a different answer. Well, I think we have this,
and I think we have this. Does that ever happen?
And you would advise couples to like take those three
things those passion, emotional emotional intimacy and commitment and commitment

(51:33):
and I'm sure, like you said, you're going to be
strong at two, but maybe have to work on the third.
And just like you said, some of the conflict in
relationships come because one person is giving two of those
things and the other person is giving to other ones
in other words, So like, let's use the example of
a guy who's really in love with a woman and

(51:56):
he's sharing his heart, he's giving a lot of emotional intimacy.
They're having rocking sex, but for whatever reason, maybe her
own attachment style, she's not about to make him a
public boyfriend, okay, and so she's not making that commitment.
So he's stuck in this place of longing and hope, right,
And at the same time, she's feeling kind of giving

(52:19):
too much intimacy. Besides that triangle that I talked about,
the other thing that's really important for couples to learn
is each individual's attached and style. Right. Some people can
tolerate a lot of emotional intimacy, and some people can't,
Like they run from it, and they can get physically intimate,
but it's just too much. They were either brought up

(52:40):
in a family of origin that didn't talk about feelings,
or as a young baby when their brain was tripling
in size, their needs were not met by their caregiver.
So their deep belief system is my needs can't be met,
so I'm independent. I will make sure I'm not counting
on you. And make I'm not dependent on you. So

(53:02):
some of the biggest problems, and this is a really
common couple is the anxious we call it the anxious
attached person. This is the person checking their iPhone, constantly
counting the number of words in the text, counting them
number of minutes between the text. They're vigilantly watching for
signs of abandonment, right, and then they meet the avoidant person.

(53:22):
And by the way, they have really great sex. They're
known to have the best sex of any couple, and
they're known to last actually the longest years. But they're
also known to be the most unhappy, terribly unhappy. Yeah, yeah,
they'll stay together because it's this constant chase the avoidant.
The anxious one is having these moments of I see

(53:44):
her or him in her intimate moment when we're having
this great sex, and then the avoidant one is just like, Okay,
this is too much. I've got to take a break
right after sex, and then the run starts again, the
little chase starts again. Why is dating? So, are you know?
A relationship is a gymnasium for your mind. It's a

(54:06):
workout for your brain. And when people say, oh, you know,
I took some time off for dating so I could
just heal and grow. And I'm like, you know what,
if you're sitting on a mountaintop meditating, thinking you're going
to improve your relationships, all you're doing is avoiding. The
only way to approve improve relationships is to go into
relationships and try to be more conscious each with each one,

(54:29):
try to pick better partners, perhaps more importantly, try to
be a better partner in each relationship, and that's how
we grow. I think that's a wonderful one too, because
I always want to put it back on the responsibility
of the individual. What you said is try and be
a better part exactly. You know that's I think that's
truly how you will grow. Um show up as a

(54:51):
better version of yourself. I try and do it every day,
every day. I try and be a better version of myself.
But certainly in a relationship. And if you're bouncing from
relationship to relationship, instead of just saying why can't meet
the right person? The right person that they're not even
out there, I'm meeting these wrong guys. Just if you
are girls, if you can just continually I believe what
you put out into the world, you're going to attract,

(55:11):
you know, and if you can show up as an authentic, real,
genuine invested person that I just, I truly just believe
the universe is going to bring magic together and it's
gonna put your person in front of it. And I
also want to say that there is a myth out
there that having a healthy relationship is about finding the
right partner. It's not. Having a healthy relationship is about

(55:35):
having good relationship skills. Relationships are far less about luck
and a lot more about skill. What kind of skills? So, um,
here's something I heard. I want to dive into this.
This is really interesting, Wendy Um. One thing I heard
on a podcast one time. A gentleman was talking about
successful relationships, whether it be personal relationships or business relationships.

(55:56):
He said, successful relationships, um have similar values with complementary skills.
So their values are the same. Maybe this person is
strong at commitment and this person is strong at communication
or something, but their skills complement each other. Um, what
kind of skills are you talking about that need that

(56:17):
our present for a successful relationship. Well, when we look
at research on long term committed couples who report that
they've had a lot of happiness. Those are my favorite
couples to study because I'm like, who are they, Let's
figure this out? Um? They where they do a couple
of things that are really interesting. One is they tend

(56:38):
to hold positive memories for a really long time. That's
why you see couples redo their vows when they get
into dulg rooms of marriage. Twelve years later, they'll have
another fake wedding, right, That's why they go back to
where they went on their first date, where they went
on their first They're trying to recreate the feelings. Also
when they are in conflict. So people who have poor

(57:00):
attachment style and don't have good conflict resolution skills, when
they're in an argument or a fight, they literally forget
who their partner is, and their partner becomes an adversary,
an object to be angry with. They can't hold the
good and the bad at the same time. Healthy partners

(57:21):
are able to go all right, she's losing her right now,
but I remember all those times when she's been there
for me, had my back, or been a good mom.
I'm going to ride through this. And so what they're
able to do is hold the positive qualities of their
partner in their mind at the same time that the

(57:44):
chaos is happening. And you hear about communication skills all
the time, But what does it really mean to have
good communication skills? It's actually not talking. It's about learning
to listen and merror what you think you heard, giving
it back to them. So I'm hearing that when I

(58:07):
came home three nights late, that you actually felt abandoned
by me. No, I'm just pissed you just weren't there.
But it seems like that hurt you. Well, yeah, you
can piss me up. Well, you see, and you're giving
names to feelings and after a while they calm down

(58:27):
because they feel so hurt and seen. M. I think
listening is such an underrated skill. It is such a
part of communication, um and I've shared it on this
podcast many times. But in relationships, I try and say,
listen to understand, don't listen to reply. That's so brilliant

(58:49):
because we spend our time thinking of our comeback instead
of like, what are they feeling? Yeah, yeah, I'm just
waiting to get Oh are you finished so I can
say my thing? You know that. It's just then it's
a we're not even communicating. I'm yelling you're yelling or like,
I'm just trying to get my point across. You're trying
to get your point across, but nothing is being exchanged
between us. And so listening is such a powerful skill.

(59:13):
And if you can listen to understand and then even
take a pause. You know, when somebody tells you something
and then you just listen and you don't respond, They're
kind of like, what's going on, What's going on? I'm like,
I'm just listening. They're kind of shocked because people in
general don't listen, you know, but also interpreting what you

(59:35):
believe you heard. Like I have a technique. I don't
have a clinical practice now, but I used to have
a technique where if there was an arguing couple I
would have I would light a little candle and I'd say,
only the person holding the candle can talk. And if
you get angry, the candle's gonna blow out, because you're
gonna blow it out with all of your breath, your
hot air and breath right, and the other person has
to hold it in while they say whatever they need

(59:57):
to say. But I give them a pen and paper
to make some notes. So I'm like, if you're just
worried about your comeback and what you're gonna say. Just
put it on the paper so you won't forget it.
It'll be there. But when I passed the candle over,
the first thing I asked the next person to say,
is tell me three things you just heard. Oh, because

(01:00:18):
they're not they're thinking about what they want to respond
and it's over safe on the paper. They can come
back with that. Don't worry, they haven't lost it. But
tell me three things you've just heard that person say
in your words, because we want to put it now
in our words so we can interpret it right. Incredible,
Oh man, it's so Relationships are such a dance, but
they're so they're so wonderful. Like you learned so much,

(01:00:40):
you grow so much, you know, you discover so much.
There's so many parts of myself that I was didn't
know existed in me, or I had shut off, or
I wasn't in tune with um that have been opened
up through not only through a relationship, but through friendships,
through people that are different than me, you know, like
living my whole life in a locker room being around

(01:01:04):
kind of the same kind of man, having friends that
are musicians or artists or dancers or that see the
world and are emotionally so much different. Has just lossom
different parts of me, which is wonderful, And relationships do
it too. Um, I mean, you know Charles Darwin said,
we are you know, it is survival of the fittest

(01:01:26):
who will survive, and we call that natural selection. But
actually sexual selection is far more important in our evolution.
So it didn't matter if there was a great caveman
who had a cave line with the best furs and
made his own fire and killed all the best protein.
If he could not shoot his genes into the future

(01:01:49):
and put them in a good mother who would then
shoot those genes into the next generation, he fell out
of evolutions chain. And so made selection for both men
and women is the most important part of human existence.
And that's why I study the science of love. That's
why Making Matters is all about human behavior that links

(01:02:11):
to human mating strategy. I want to hear all about it.
So let's talk about that. Making Matters is your podcast,
and so for people looking for their partner, like I've
said a million times on the show, the most important
thing in my life, Wendy, is to be a loving
partner and to be a loving father. That's that's my

(01:02:32):
greatest version of me that I could ever see, is
to be a loving husband and a loving father and
hopefully to receive the love you deserve. That part of
it too. But um, the like selecting a partner that
shares those values, you know, not just for me, but

(01:02:53):
because that's that's the values that they have in their
own life. Um, I really want, I really wanted to
sack out mating matters just to hear because it's such
a complex process. Yeah, you know, maybe you like somebody,
but oh I just don't see them as a mother.
It's not the fit that I want, or maybe they
have great characteristics or I don't know. But like choosing

(01:03:15):
the person like my greatest dreams I can't fulfill by myself.
I can't need a partner to do. You need girls,
you need a womb. Okay, So one of the episodes
of mating matter is called I think it's called an
alpha male his junk food sex. And I use the
term junk food sex this way. So we, as far

(01:03:37):
as our diet is concerned, we as human beings, evolved
to have an insatiable craving for salt, sugar, and fat.
These were three vital but trace nutrients in our past.
So as a result, today's modern food industry stuffs everything
with salt, sugar, and fat because they know that we

(01:03:58):
will respond to it because our bodies are used to
living in a environment where it was hard to get
So the same thing goes with sex. So think of this.
For millions of years, we roamed the planet in mostly
related plans of about thirty five people, and we were
mostly smelling our stinky brother and sister. And anytime a
new hunter from another tribe would walk in, all the

(01:04:20):
girls would sit up straight because it was so rare
to have a new set of genes, and we would
literally smell the pheromones. That's how you can tell if
somebody has very different genes, especially genes around immune system.
It's a whole another episode. But um, what happens today.
And so in the course of our entire lifetime as
Homo sapiens, we never laid eyes on more than a

(01:04:41):
hundred and fifty humans. Now that's what we're wired for. Now,
think about today, where we have thousands of new potential mates.
A thumb swipe away, where we were in crowded cities,
on in crowded nightclubs, on crowded subways, and so it's
being triggered like salt, sugar and fat. We must have
sex with that, We must have sex with that, We

(01:05:01):
must have sex with that because that was a scarcity
way back when. So this episode called an Alpha male
and his jump food sex. I got an email from
a guy who played basketball, and he's confused because he
was twenty four years old, has had at that point

(01:05:22):
more than two hundred sexual partners, no idea how to
have a relationship, and what had happened in his life
that made him reach out to me is one of
his sexual partners became pregnant and kept the baby. So
now he has a baby daughter who's just a few
months old, and his head is spinning about what he
should be doing. And when I talked to him, it's

(01:05:44):
such a very long and wonderful interview. He was very
open and honest. But one of the things I said
to him is maybe this daughter is such a gift
because now you're shopping for her best stepmother. And he
was like, oh, I never thought of it that way. Wow,
that's wonderful. I gotta check out mating matters. Tell us

(01:06:12):
a little bit more about mating matters. So I have
my first Yeah, the first episode is called hidden Eggs.
Why we're the only primate that you can't tell when refertile?
You know, all the other monkeys have those big red
monkey butts that you saw in National Geographic when you
were a kid, right, those swellings. We don't. We have
a hidden fertility. So I explain why we have hidden fertility.

(01:06:34):
And I explain why men in certain ways can tell
when and how a woman is ovulating. Also, since many
women don't even know that they're ovulating, here's a funfic studies,
and I interview scientists as well as real people. Um.
Some scientists studied strippers, exotic dancers and their tips, and

(01:06:58):
they found and then stroll cycles, and they found that
whenever the stripper was ovulating, she made nine times the
amount of tips. But if they interviewed her and asked
her why, she always said, no, I had an off night,
or I had a good night. I don't know, maybe
I dance better or whatever. So they tried to figure
out what was it that caused men to part with
their money. And there are a number of factors but

(01:07:20):
I'll give you only a couple because I want you
to listen to the whole episode. But one is that
women's voices change just slightly when they're ovulating, a little breathy,
aer just a little softer. There's some more air in
their voices, like Marilyn Monroe singing Happy birthday, Mr presnt right.

(01:07:40):
And so in order to actually make the big tips
as an exotic dancer, you have to book the lap dances. Well,
how do you book a lap dance from up on stage?
Clubs are notoriously very loud and they're very dark, And
how do you book a lap dance? You walk up
to somebody and you say in their ear, would you

(01:08:02):
like a lap dance? And they hear in the voice
and they know it, but they know they'll pay more
for that lap dance. Wow, it's amazing how that shows up.
And there are many other ways too. I don't want
to give away the whole episode. So then we have
another episode about dating and how the dating apps bio
hack our brain, called Dating Apathy. We have a great

(01:08:24):
one called porno. Are we allowed to swear on your podcast? Okay,
it's called pornography mind fuck, And it's about how pornography
also bio hacks the male brain. And we interview this
really into He happens to be Canadian. I think he's
from Western University or something, but he actually studies insects.
And he was in Australia studying this particular breed of

(01:08:48):
black beetle that was starting to go extinct and they
couldn't figure out why. And he was out in the
wilderness camping and he started noticing that on this road
all these truckers with throw these particular brown beer bottles
out the window as they drove, so they were littered
with beer bottles everywhere, and they were the little we
used to call them the studies. And I don't know

(01:09:10):
if you remember, but sometimes they had that little bumps
on them so they wouldn't slip out of your hands. Right. Well,
apparently the color brown and the little bumps look exactly
like a female beetle. So they kept finding these beer
bottles covered with male beetles who couldn't stop stop calpulating
and leaving their sperm on beer bottles instead of real females.

(01:09:31):
Oh my gosh. And he likened it to male use
of pornography, leaving the sperm with a screen instead of
a human. His prediction is that the young man today
who learns to actually speak with a woman, take her
out on a Saturday night for a date, and have
real sex with her will be the one whose genes
will be in the future, not those who become addicted

(01:09:53):
to porn. Wow, that is amazing. Yes, So I think
it's science. I look at the human brain and I
look at our modern environment. So Mating Matters is the podcast.
Where else can people find you? Because undoubtedly our listeners
are going to want the taste of Wendy Walsh. Thank
you so much, brooks um Well. I have a radio

(01:10:16):
show on kf I Am six forty Los Angeles live
every Sunday from four to six, but you can find
it at any time on the I Heart radio app.
And I have I do a live stream on my
social media and it is Wednesday, isn't it And it's
four forties So in an hour and twenty minutes at
six o'clock every Wednesday, I just stream everywhere and let
anybody ask me any question they want for free on

(01:10:36):
my all my social media, and my social media is
at Dr Wendy Walsh just d R at d R
Wendy Walsh. Amazing. That's amazing that you just give that
value for free, because obviously you're such an accomplished person,
but to then just open source everything you have with
your heart. Really, what you're doing is you're sharing your
heart with people. Um, you shared insight in your knowledge,

(01:10:57):
but truthfully, you're sharing your heart. Just want to commend
you for doing Thank you. But it's a gift to
me too because it keeps my ear to the ground
to see what people are struggling with. It's also fun
to just sharpen your own blade. Yeah, you know, it's
just like let me let me hear what they're dealing
with now, and I'm always hear new Well, they think
they're new problems. You know, technology hasn't created new problems,

(01:11:18):
just new pathways to the old problems. Oh that's amazing.
Dr Wendy Walsh. I have just literally been through the
Wendy Walsh School. So I absolutely thank you so much.
Our community, thanks you so much. Um guys, tune into
Maating Matters, which is Wendy's podcast, UM, and tune into
her Instagram lives as well. Wendy, thank you so much.
We'd love to have you back on, thank you anytime.

(01:11:39):
That's it for this episode, guys um until next week.
As always, take care of one another, love one another,
and use this episode as inspiration to find your connection.