October 8, 2020 • 62 mins
Baratunde ignores the headlines about Chicago and heeds a listener’s advice to learn more about the South Side from a local artist who is building bridges in her community and literally helping people find common ground. Tonika Johnson helps us understand the pride that comes from being a Chicagoan and the root causes of today’s community struggles grounded in segregation and discrimination. Through her Folded Map Project, she is a perfect example of using art as a way to citizen.
Show Notes + Links
We are grateful to Tonika Johnson for joining us.
Follow @TonikaJ on IG. You can learn more about The Folded Map Project at https://www.foldedmapproject.com/.
We will post this episode, a transcript, show notes and more at howtocitizen.com.
Please show your support for the show in the form of a review and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords!
ACTIONS FOR THIS EPISODE.
Internal: (actions that help you reflect on your own emotions, opinions, and experiences regarding a particular issue)
Find your fold, as Tonika says.
Whether you live in Chicago or not, there is a dividing line exacerbating racial and class segregation in our lives, and we want you to find it.
First, reflect on your own neighborhood, and digitally identify and write down the following:
- The food you enjoy and the restaurants you support
- The neighborhood cultural institutions and local artists you appreciate
- The local businesses you depend on: grocery, bookshops, dry cleaners, etc.
- The local library and any programming it offers that you’re into
- The local news sources you rely on
Now, think about a neighborhood you hear about in the news that is in your city, but that you may not visit because it’s “bad” or “undesirable” or because it’s too nice and inaccessible to you.
For that neighborhood, use the internet and social media to get to know it outside of media headlines using the questions below:
- For the food you enjoy, find a restaurant in that neighborhood that you’d want to order from.
- Find and follow two local artists and one cultural institution to follow on social.
- Find and follow three local businesses that match the type you frequent in your neighborhood.
- Check out the corresponding library website and follow them on social media.
- Find one neighborhood news source from that neighborhood. Maybe there’s a podcast, online weekly, or social media account devoted to telling stories of that community.
We want you to become a better citizen of your neighborhood and your whole city.
BONUS:
Listen to these two episodes of This American Life called “House Rules” that examine segregation in the U.S. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/512/house-rules
Explore the history of redlining in your US city. This project by the Digital Scholarship Lab a the University of Richmond let’s you examine the New Deal HOLC (Home Owners’ Loan Corporation) maps which set the stage for so much segregation that persists to this day. https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=4/40.592/-104.228
EXTERNAL: (actions that are public and require you to interact with or join others in your community)
For Chicago residents, use the Folded Map action kit to find your map twin. Submit your results. All this is at https://www.foldedmapproject.com/submit
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to How to Citizen with baratun Day, a show
where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb, reclaim
it from those who have weaponized it, and remind ourselves
how to wield our collective power. I'm barratun Day. I
want to thank you you in general for listening, but
(00:30):
some use in particular for the actions you've taken, or
the messages you've shared, or just the way you've talked
about the show. To the group of American teachers in Casablanca.
It's an honor to have made it to your book club,
and I'm glad we're helping you feel more close to home.
(00:51):
Thanks for hitting us up at our email action at
how to Citizen dot com. To a studios avala on
I g. Thank you for turning our principles of what
it means to citizen into amazing and beautiful art and
using that hashtag how to Citizen We see you. And
to Phoebe let at The New York Times, thank you
(01:12):
for including us in your piece podcast to inform your vote.
Phoebe wrote, and I quote in each episode Thurston That's
me and his guests showed that the care American show
for one another every day is reason for optimism, and
the show's format practices what the content preaches. Yea, we
(01:32):
just got recommended by the New York Times. That feels
good and just a moment of celebration. All right, back
to work. We recorded the episode you're about to hear
with our live zoom audience, which you can join by
visiting how to citizen dot com and signing up for
the emails or text in order to get the link. Now,
I'm gonna pass the mic to myself as we learned
(01:54):
to build bridges not walls. So far in this series,
we have grounded ourselves in love and power. We've explored
how to citizen with COVID, with public safety, and with
worker rights. In this episode, We're gonna citizen a little
closer to home, literally closer to home. Part of how
(02:17):
the citizen requires us to care about the collective and
not just our individual selves, to be concerned with how
our actions are the actions of our government, impact our neighbors,
our communities, and our regions. Another part of how to
Citizen centis on showing up and participating, being in relationship
to others in our immediate proximity, not just our online friends.
(02:40):
We are proud to have a guest today who embodies
through her art how to citizen in her community, and
she's created a profound project that can build bridges and
communities around the world. Let me set the scene for you,
the South Side of Chicago. What images, words, phrases occurred
you when you hear that, Probably possibly at least something
(03:03):
along the lines of criminal headlines and gun violence, and
maybe Michelle Obama mixed in there. But the image that
the media paints is of a community constantly in strife, struggle,
maybe even words like carnage. And yet this is also
a community of people living and working together to make
(03:24):
lives better. No matter what else you see, read, or
hear about this place, there is another story of this place.
I know the story of this person thanks to you, literally,
thanks to one of you who heard our first two
episodes hit me up on I G I really do
read them and said you need to know about this
(03:46):
photo journalist as visual artist out of the South Side
of Chicago. So I want to thank Chris new Router
for putting me on our guest for this episode. Was
born and raised in Inglewood, a neighborhood on the South
side of Chicago. She's a visual artist and photographer, and
in she helped co found Resident Association of Greater Englewood.
(04:07):
She's also the co founder of Inglewood's Arts Collective. In
sen she was featured in Chicago Magazine as a Chicagoan
of the Year, and in ten she was named one
of the Field Foundations leaders for a New Chicago That's
Not Enough. Most recently, she was appointed as a member
of the Cultural Advisory Council to the Department of Cultural
(04:27):
Affairs and Special Events by the Chicago City Council. If
you can't tell, she is Chicago, and she's here with
us today to talk more about her project, Folded Map,
which visually connects residents who live at car responding addresses
on the north and south sides of one of America's
greatest cities. We hope she's going to spark your creativity
(04:51):
and imagination. Please welcome Tonica Johnson. Welcome to How to
Citizen with barrattun Day. Thank you for making time to
be here with us. Tanika, you started this project as
a visual investigation of Chicago's neighborhoods. You were using the
grid system in this beautiful spacetime star Trekky like, let's
(05:15):
fold it way to directly compare photographs and videos of
North and South Side blocks and residents for those who
are unfamiliar, the South Side being predominantly black, lower income,
the North Side being much more white and having many
more resources. Why did you start doing this? What was
(05:37):
your motivation as an artist for this work. So there's
the inspiration of the idea that started while I was
in high school, and then there is the motivation to
do the idea. Well, I want it all, So let's
go back to high school. So, um, in high school.
(05:59):
I grew up in Inglewood, and when I was thirteen
years old, I was commuting all the way to the
North Side from Inglewood to my high school, which is
fifteen miles north of Inglewood. And it is a selective
enrollment school, which basically means that it has students from
(06:20):
all over Chicago, and in the nineties, specifically selective enrollment schools.
Because they had students from all over Chicago, they were
able to curate the racial demographic of their student body
to reflect the percentage of the racial demographic in Chicago.
So there was equal percentage of each race. But you
(06:43):
can imagine, you know, being immersed in new friendships from
all over Chicago. But alongside of that, every day, while
I was traveling from Inglewood, fifteen miles north to the
predominantly white neighborhood that my high school is in, I
noticed so many things on that commute, and and one
was how different my neighborhood looked from the neighborhood that
(07:04):
my high school was in. I noticed that my neighborhood
definitely looked disinvested in. I noticed that we had vacant lots,
fast food restaurants, no franchise restaurants, no cafes, And the
neighborhood that my high school was in literally was the opposite.
(07:25):
It had so many cool things, boutiques, cafes, flowers, tree
lined streets, and I also recognized that the streets were
named the same. On this everyday commute, I was like,
oh wow, Ashland, and my neighborhood definitely doesn't look like this,
you know, the same way that it does on the
(07:47):
north Side. And so every day for four years, this
is what I saw on my commute. And so I
just listened to music and looked out the window and
noticed the disparity between my neighborhood and the neighborhood my
high school was in. But going to school is when
I really felt like I was introduced to Chicago because
(08:07):
our friendships are allowing us to explore each other's neighborhood.
So by the end of senior year in high school,
you can have a black boy from Chicago's West Side
tell you that his favorite Filipino dishes pawn sick, you know.
So this was the kind of diversity that we experienced.
And I knew then that although our city was segregated,
(08:31):
that relationships could be built across those racial lines. So
that stuck with me, and it didn't matter to me
as I got older and how many people talked about segregation.
I experienced what diversity and integration looks like it feels
like in Chicago, and I just carried that with me.
So when I got older and started to do community work,
(08:55):
and then the ten presidential election year came about, and
you know, current president was talking about Chicago very horribly,
primarily focusing on the gun violence, and I just felt
like that was such a cheap way to talk about
the larger systemic issues that created an environment for gun
(09:16):
violence to become an issue. And I said, you know what,
people just only want to focus on gun violence and
not the root issue. Gun violence has not always been
in neighborhoods like Inglewood and had a very clear beginning,
and what happened before gun violence became an issue is
something a lot of people don't know about. And I
(09:38):
wanted to do a project that clearly showed what the
present day impact of the historic segregation and discriminatory housing policies,
what that made our neighborhoods look like today, and that's
what prompted me to start working on Folded Map. Your
(09:59):
attempt to recreate connection is only possible or necessary because
there was a policy to create disconnection in the past.
And you alluded to this already talking about how the
present we're living in these decisions that were made a
long time ago and you experienced it as a high schooler.
Can you explain more about the other maps before you
(10:21):
came and folded them that defined Chicago and what families
could live where these red lining maps? Yes, so you know,
as people in this day and time are learning about
systemic racism. Um A huge part of how that was
able to sustain in our country as metropolitan cities became
more populated is the federal maps that essentially outline the
(10:49):
neighborhoods and locations and growing cities where the black population
was starting to move to and where the white pop
relation we're living at and will move to. And those maps,
the whole maps h l lc UM. They basically determined
(11:12):
which neighborhoods banks should approve mortgages or business loans, and
that ultimately affected how different white and black neighborhoods were
a resource. So in addition to creating this segregation basically
(11:37):
not approving a loan to a black family who were
interested in moving into this neighborhood that was defined as
a white neighborhood, they also had experienced discriminatory lending practices
by banks in the neighborhoods that were defined as black.
(11:57):
So those distinctions ultimately lead over the course of those
next sixty years, has resulted in this disparity and how
investment is in these neighborhoods. And so those were the
maps that ultimately determined the segregation that we continue to
(12:18):
see today replicated in so many different metropolitan neighborhoods. So
not only did they define the race of neighborhoods, but
they also determined where banks should and should not approve loans,
not just mortgages, but businesses that wanted to get started.
(12:39):
And due to the racist climate of that time, a
lot of the black neighborhoods didn't receive loans of any
kind to invest in their neighborhoods. So those are the
maps that I definitely was thinking of in reference to
creating and using Chicago's map as is a point of healing,
(13:02):
because we had those maps that created an exacerbated fear
not only for black families, but also white families. White
families were told that, oh, black people are moving to
your neighborhood. It's going to turn into a neighborhood that
doesn't get loans. Your housing values are gonna go down.
So there were white families who could possibly would have
(13:25):
stayed in the neighborhoods to live with black people had
they not been scared, you know, to the fact that
they're housing the homes that they've invested in were going
to lose value. And you know, those maps really cemented
segregation into our country, and that's why it was important
(13:45):
for me to use a map as healing. I really
like this idea of a map twin It's one thing
too conceptually and analytically think about this coordinate has a
corresponding coordinate. It takes me back to geometry class. But
there are people at those coordinates who have a story
(14:09):
and an experience, and so you have created these really
interesting possibilities for pairings of people that you call map twins.
Can you explain more about this concept and how that's
an entry point to participate in the fold of map. Yes.
So in Chicago, we have normalized our segregations at the
point of us joking about it, which you know, that's
(14:32):
what happens when you normalize stuff, you end up having weird,
unusual jokes about it. And so every Chicagoan jokes about
the fact that when you take our Red Line train,
you notice the colorship it goes from black on the
south side to white on the north side. And so
I really wanted us to, like, as Chicagoans interrupt, how
(14:57):
we've normalized it, you know, for them to understand how
it impacts our social networks. So I wanted to really
utilize Chicago's grid map, something that is uniquely Chicago, and
the fact that you have those coordinates that you know,
not in a lot of different places, and so I
wanted to use our grid map to reveal to people
(15:21):
exactly what you said, that these addresses that we mistakenly
go to sometimes, these addresses that feel like they reveal
so much about people's live experience, but we don't really know.
To use those addresses as a way to connect us
all and to let people know that you do have
(15:44):
a very distant neighbor fifteen miles away from you on
the same street, because we have so many streets in
Chicago that run the full north and south of Chicago,
and I wanted people to start thinking about they're distant neighbors,
regardless of the neighborhood, as family. And so I wanted
(16:06):
people to connect using the addresses or the neighborhoods that
would touch each other if you were to foe Chicago
in the middle, but then also to view them as
as family, because we are, whether we like it or not,
we are a family in this city, in this world,
and it's best that we start to get to know
(16:29):
each other. And so that was the way that I
wanted to create maps wins for people to feel some
kind of connection to someone who they share a street
name with. There's something that strikes me about the fear
(16:55):
that the government planted in white residents to say, you know,
black people are gonna bring your property values down, They're
gonna bring their neighborhood problems with them. It's like, those
are neighborhood problems because of what you did to them.
You don't get to blame people for the thing that
you did to make the situation be that way. Um,
(17:19):
A map as a tool of healing as opposed to
just a tool of division is a really powerful idea.
And these pairings that you've helped facilitate are powerful and
occasionally awkward. And can you talk through when you get
to map twins together, what are you going for? What happens?
(17:41):
I mean, I can tell you I watched the video
clip where I didn't know you're gonna ask people how
much they paid for their houses, And when you see
people react to each other. Somebody was like, I was
glad to get a deal for five hundred thousand dollars
and the black person is like, and like, we about
to paid thirty tho dollars for this house. So to
(18:01):
talk about the interaction amongst the twins and what has
happened there, I just always uplift them because These are
people who self selected to participate. I did a mass
solicitation to people on blocks that I was going to
include in the project. So the maps wins are the
(18:22):
people who said, I want to try this weird thing out.
And regardless if awkward moments happened, all of them were
connected in the fact that they thought it was important
enough for them to even participate. And so I think
(18:42):
them knowing that with each other created a sense of
trust and a sense of I know that this person
wants to improve the very thing that will reveal itself
in this conversation as being awkward. So a lot of
the map twins, you know, hadn't experienced each other's neighborhoods
(19:05):
just on a peer resident level. You know, a few
of the residents who lived on the North Side had
come to the South Side before, but primarily through volunteering,
so they hadn't met someone as just a neighbor. And
so a lot of them started to understand who has
(19:27):
benefited from the segregation that exists in Chicago. And it
is uncomfortable, you know, when you meet someone who you
have learned to be interested in and then you all
answer the question of what's missing in your neighborhood, and
(19:48):
one person says basic stuff like oh, better schools, community
center for children, restaurants, grocery store, just the basic needs,
and you can't even come up with anything in your neighborhood.
You start to develop empathy, and then the person who
(20:09):
is saying the things that they don't have in their
neighborhood feels as if, oh, someone cares. Like the people
who actually have the very thing that I'm saying we
need in in my neighborhood, who I possibly thought didn't care,
They're actually listening. So it was reciprocal listening and learning.
(20:31):
So all of them had that. Even if there were
varying degrees of awkward moments, all of them were rooted
in that. And I think there are great examples of
how to model those kind of conversations. We haven't talked
about that with each other before, especially in such a
(20:51):
place specific project like Chicago, and it's gonna be weird.
It's gonna be awkward and unusual, and we need to
just get okay with that. Need to start being okay
with saying the prices of stuff, because that is what
reveals the true impact of inequity and how it is
a barrier to people progressing not only in their life,
(21:15):
but you know, from generations from now, and we have
to start being okay with saying words like black, white, Latino,
Asian and then also being corrected, you know. So I
think the Maps Wins conversations reveal all of that. MHM.
How did you learn to facilitate that sort of necessary
(21:37):
but uncomfortable series of conversations. Well, I would say formally
and just creating the questions. That is rooted in the
fact that I went to college for journalism, and prior
to that, in high school, I was, you know, one
of them weirdo our kids, but my interest was in
(22:00):
witchery and writing articles. So I've always been interested in
interviewing people, which really comes down to me just being nosy,
you know, I'm just nosy and people are so interested
to me, and going to high school with so many
different people, you just like start to ask questions like,
oh my gosh, where do you live, where are you from,
(22:20):
what do you like to do? Wow? So all of
that was carried over into folded Matt. But what was
difficult for me to do that I really hadn't learned
in journalism school was how to not interrupt people answering
your questions that are ultimately in conversation with each other.
(22:42):
So I would start, you know, by asking them both
the same questions, questions that I had asked them separately,
just to get them used to it. So no one
was really going to be surprised by what they were
thinking of or how they were thinking of answering the question.
You were only going to be surprised by what you
heard someone else answering. So for me, I had to
(23:03):
learn how to just shut up, like after you asked
the question, let people talk, and then when the awkward
moments happened, don't interrupt, like see how they fix it,
see what they resort to in order to fix it.
And that was really the gold of the project is
(23:26):
seeing how two strangers interact around these seemingly simple questions,
but that clearly reveal a different lived experience. And so
I I had to learn how to shut up and
stay out of the way. There were so many times
where I understood both point of views and I was
and I wanted to explain and like, no, what you
really means is, but I couldn't. So that was a
(23:50):
learning lesson for me. It's an act of journalism, an
act of community building, and act of art all in one.
How do you see yourself? Well, now, I changed the
title on my artist's website so often. At first it
was photographer, then it was a social justice activist, then
(24:11):
I was like social justice artist, then it was trans
diisciplinary artists. So I don't know I changed it, you know,
according to what people tell me. I am um, but
I just say artists and the and the medium that
I use is photography, but even that's changing because you know,
(24:32):
I've included video, I've included so many other things, like
you know, public installations, so just artists. I think that's
what I've grown to accept, partly because my neighborhood like
bestowed that title on me. I was trying to avoid
it for so long because I felt like in order
to really claim yourself as an artist, you have to
(24:54):
I've had produced something, and they were calling me an
artist way before I had my first exit vision, way
before I thought of folded map. And so once they
told me no you are you are just accepted, I
was like, okay, I am and me taking on that
title because they uplifted me enough to say, no, you're
(25:17):
an artists and we're proud of you. That allowed me
to open my mind up to think of projects, you know,
like actually doing folded map. I would add Tonica that
your medium is far greater than photography. Your medium is
your city, and your medium are these people who you
treat with such respect. You create a space for them
(25:40):
to have dialogue, and then you trust them enough to
let them have it. That's art. That is not facilitation,
That is not lawyer ring, that is not conflict resolution NG.
That is creating and it's very powerful. So I just
wanted to observe that as an outsider to tell you
(26:01):
what you do. You are an artist, but you are
your medium is also us and I appreciate it. Thank you.
I'm to use that you should use that. We're recording
so you can get it. You get it perfectly. There's
a quote that we found about you. I want to
share with you and then ask your thoughts about how
this connects to your work. Since then, she has transformed
this project into an advocacy and policy influencing tool that
(26:25):
invites audiences to open a dialogue and question how we
are all socially impacted by racial and institutional conditions that
segregate the city, So can you tell me more about
how this project is being used as an advocacy tool
and how it's affecting policy. When you create a piece
of work, like you have no idea how people are
(26:48):
going to respond, and so you can't ever foresee what
that response will make you do or feel as an artist,
is what it will influence you to create after that.
So I had only seen Folded Map as an art project,
like this project that was in my head that I
(27:10):
finally got out and once people started responding and connecting
to the idea of a map twin, the idea of saying, yes,
the city is segregated and it has contributed to maybe
some racist thoughts I have, or yes it's unfair that
(27:32):
this North Side neighborhood has exactly what my neighborhood needs.
So it was more of an affirmation that Chicagoan started
to use to say, you know, look, this is what
it is. And because the response was so great and
people wanted to participate find out if I was gonna
(27:52):
do more map twins, it really started to generate a
larger citywide conversation and primarily through my social media, that
started to grow and people that wanted to see what
I was sharing and then comment on it, and eventually,
you know, it led to policy influence and organizations becoming
(28:17):
aware of it, like Metropolitan Planning Council. Most recently, our
president Tony Preckwinkle, who ran for mayor. She saw my
folded map animated film and quickly identified the fact that
it could prove certain policies that she wanted to introduce.
(28:39):
That it's a clear visual example using our grid map
to demonstrate the neglect and the unfairness of what our
city has experienced fifty sixty years ago. And so a
lot of organizations and individuals who are working hard and
(29:03):
tirelessly two kind of resolve this inequity, began to refer
to folded map, and so they didn't have to refer
to a report primarily with just statistics. They were able
to say, this report reveals this, but look at this project.
These are people who met each other who are clearly
(29:26):
talking about the inequity between home ownership amenities. So they
started to use folded map as evidence of something that
reports just weren't able to translate. And also having the photographs,
you know, I definitely have started to accept the pioneering
(29:52):
impact of photographing Chicago's two different sides and comparing them
because I think in courts um that hasn't been done before.
No one really thought of, oh, let's just photograph these
streets that are the same and just show the difference. So,
you know, that is my contribution to understanding the present
(30:16):
day impact of segregation in Chicago, and I think all
of the reports that have been done it was really
just missing the the visual and the human aspect to it.
And so that's what a lot of policymakers have been
using Folded Map to push their efforts forward. But then
also the Folded Map family is I call them. A
(30:40):
lot of them are educators and a lot of them
are people who want to learn more. So they're also
learning about different issues and policies through Folded Map. So
that is how it just transformed into a tool that
educators and policymakers are using to push their work forward.
Are there any other outcomes that you hope to see
(31:03):
from this project? Yes, one in particular that I'm holding
up actually is the Folded Map action kits. So many
people told me they wanted to participate in Folded Map,
but I had to let people know, like I'm not
gonna do this forever. I can't pare people up. Maybe
I can create something where you all can do it yourself.
(31:26):
So I created the Folded Map Action Kit, which is
a literal kick um that we're mailing to some of
the select people on Folded Map contact list, but that
will be available for download on folded Map website, where
it's a self guided invite to run errands in your
map twin neighborhood and share back your experience. I wanted
(31:50):
people to be able to contribute to the expansion of
Folded Map, but in a more personalized way that would
allow them to not enter into a neighborhood good with
the preconceived ideas or the stereotypes. Because as a photographer,
I know very well that what you're told about a
(32:11):
location and a group of people will be reflected in
what you pay attention to. So it's kind of like
a self fulfilling prophecy. So if you're told that elin
is horrible, you're gonna pay attention to things that look
horrible to you. You know, you won't notice other things.
And so I wanted to create a project or an
(32:31):
activity where it allowed you to meet regular residents just
you know. And so that's when I came up with
the idea to have people run errands in your map
twin neighborhood, and errands that are associated to the very
(32:53):
specific inequities. So go buy an organic apple in your
map twin neighborhood. Go take out twenty dollars at an
a T M go By lotion. That's a very different
experience in neighborhoods. People wouldn't think it is, but it is.
Um go see your local post office, local library, so
(33:14):
people can as close as possible feel what it is
to walk in their distant neighbors shoes. But that is
something that I am excited for Chicagoans to do and
for people in other cities as well. It's activity that
can be applied to so many cities in our country.
(33:36):
And I really just view Chicago as a microcosm of
what is really going on in our nation with a
segregation and equities that is just what it is, and
a lot of metropolitan cities. And so that's what I'm
hoping with the expansion of folded Map into this action kit,
(33:57):
that people will enter neighborhoods in a way that isn't
just gazing you know that they can actually create some
empathy to the neighborhoods that they visit that don't have
the resources, and then for the people who visit neighborhoods
that are over resourced, for them to think about, Wow,
(34:22):
this neighborhood has things that I'm entitled to. Some people
don't know how over resourced other neighborhoods are, and unfortunately
they can start to think that that's the norm. That
my neighborhood being disinvested in is how it's supposed to be.
And so that's my goal with the Activity Kid is
(34:44):
to have this conversation become more personalized. I want you
to dream with me for a second, Tunika. I love Chicago,
and I've never been a full time resident, visited a lot,
spent to summer there. I like to claim my little piece.
But as you said, our whole nation is segregated and
(35:06):
has been pulled apart by various maps of division rather
than maps of healing. What other elements could you see
emerging from this? Maybe you've got a hint of it.
Maybe you just had some advice for the non Chicago
wins out there about principles they could apply to proceed
on their own down this path. What do you say
to that you can connect with people through your passion?
(35:28):
And I think that's something our country has not had
the opportunity for individuals to experience. You know, we we've
associated our where we should live based on class, you know,
the amount of money we make. Now just imagine if
people determine where they live based off of the community
of people they shared a passion with. And I just
(35:51):
hope that people take away from folded map that they
can apply to where they live. It's just meeting people
through your interests and your passions, not focusing on people
who have the same lived experience is you because passions
cross the racial divide, the geographic divide, and it allows
(36:12):
you an opportunity to see someone from a different lived
experience as your equal because you have a shared passion.
And so I just hope that people really start to
think about how and why we're divided racially, because I
know that there's a huge population of us who don't
(36:35):
want to interact that way. We don't want to be divided.
We see the value and the benefit of connecting with
people from different lived experiences and it's fun. It's so
fun to learn other people's culture and to see what's different,
to see what you view is weird or what you
don't like. It's fun and it also expands your world view.
(37:01):
And we're in a place and time where it's global,
you know, we're not living in places where it's just
people who look like us. And so that's what I
would hope people would take away, just the curiosity of
getting to know history, the curiosity of wanting to get
(37:22):
to know other people. I've got one more for you,
and then we're gonna go open up the floodgates of
questions and comments. The strong foundation of this show is
that we see the word citizen as a verb rather
than strictly as a legal status. If you interpret citizen
as a verb, how do you define what it means
(37:43):
to citizens? I would say to learn about your life
in your family's history and how that connects two our
larger history. Because sometimes when you learn history in school,
(38:03):
you don't feel the immediate connection to your present day life.
And sometimes we go and look for stories of how
to humanize history in books and other people, and really
it's just already within your family, you know. So I
would say one easy way to citizen is learn your
(38:27):
family history and learn how that has impacted maybe decisions
you've made in your life and beliefs that you have
or that you disagree with now, but really your family history. Yes,
that was great. I feel so vindicated too, because I
(38:48):
told somebody something like that the other day and then
this dope artist just said it. So now, thank you.
It's not about me, but thank you. Yes, there's a
(39:10):
comment that I pulled from one of your videos that
I I want to get to as a guy named
Wade who I saw in one of your videos. He's
one of your map twins. You know Wade as you're
smiling and recognition and you know you asked Wade, or
someone asked what about would you encourage people to take
part in the folded Map project? And he said, quote,
(39:30):
having an open mind and being willing to do something
new and get out of your comfort zone is important
if we're going to become a more united city and
as citizens of the city really have a connection with
the entire city and not just half of it. You've
got to sometimes take the initiative and do the uncomfortable thing.
I want to encourage anyone who wants to bridge that
(39:51):
gap that we all know was there. You should just
do it. That's my boy, right, Like I said, that's
your medium, then I gotta set this up. This is
exciting because this is the person who actually first mentioned
Tonica Johnson and the Folded Map project to me. So,
(40:13):
Chris new Router is in the house. I'm Christie Router.
I'm a middle aged white lady who lives on the
North Side. I'm in a weird neighborhood called Bowmanville, which
is pretty close to Edgewater, which is sort of the
north Side focus of Folded Map. My day job is
in forensic engineering, so I have like an architectural background,
(40:37):
and I first fell in love with Folded Map because
of the beautiful sort of architectural photos that that Tanka took.
And so I went down to Englewood Branded and saw
the exhibit after hearing it on NPR, and I just
fell in love. And I've a comment and then some questions.
(40:57):
One of the things that is really great about Tanka
is that there's so much joy and celebration of these communities,
you know, whether it's north Side, the you know over
resource neighborhood I live in, or um you know, south
side communities like Englewood that frankly are getting just horrible
(41:17):
media coverage and it bothers me as a Chicagoan who
loves my city that you know, it's described as a
war zone and we forget I think that people live
in these neighborhoods, even if there's you know, a gang
problem on a block. These are thriving neighborhoods that people
live in and we need to stop measuring our communities
(41:38):
only in terms of, you know, monetary wealth. And that's
what I really love about this project in particular. One
of the questions I had for Tuanika is how do
you see this being applied in other communities? I see
a lot of the chat was really focused on that.
Thank you for asking that question. Um, I've been thinking
(41:58):
a lot about that, and when I've spoken in other
cities of the States, I've always ended up saying every
place has a fold. So that is going to be
the next guide that I create after I commit to
getting this action kid out in two weeks, is a
(42:20):
find your fold. And it doesn't matter what kind of
mapping system your city has. There is segregation and there's
usually a street, a house, a landmark, something that divides
and I want to help people know that you don't
need an exact grid map to do this or replicate
(42:43):
this in your city, just your reflection about where the
divide is fold it right there. Even if it's in
a classroom or a lunch room, there is usually a
divide a fold, and so I want to be able
to encourage people to find that fold and use art
(43:06):
to think of the fold like. It doesn't have to
be so rigid, you know, conceptually, it could be a
fold in instruments, certain students in class picks. There is
always something that is a division, and the goal of
Folded Map is to use that divide to bring people together.
(43:28):
So I'm definitely going to create find your Fold guide,
explaining to people my process and how I did folded Map,
and you know, give them the instructions on how to
do it in their location. So that's soon to come. Maybe. Um,
(43:53):
all right, We've got a live question from Mama Sarah Great,
Thank you. Hi. I'm from Rochester, New York. Are the
folks here in the city, Roots Community, Land Trust and
Rochester have been doing tremendous work around educating about redlining
how our city was divided, and I'm just curious who
you're connecting with around efforts to educate beyond your project
(44:16):
into how your communities can rebuild from the grassroots, maybe
through land trust or other things. So beyond folded MAP,
I'm definitely connected with community organizations that are trying to
really specifically increase home ownership in neighborhoods like Inglewood. Land
(44:41):
trust is one of the you know, tools that people
are talking about. But then there's also the other issue
of repurposing schools that have been closed in neighborhoods like Inglewoods.
So all of those things are definitely being talked about
and Lord, but since neighborhoods in Chicago are like a
(45:03):
universe of their own, you can't apply one strategy to
all of these neighborhoods. Each neighborhood is very unique. Um
An example I can give is there's another South Side
neighborhood called Auburn, Gresham and Chatham, and these are neighborhoods
that have a strong home ownership base, but they're mostly
older Black people, and so their neighborhoods, even though they
(45:26):
have high home ownership, they don't have the other amenities
that you know, this aging population deserves, and so they
don't have grocery stores in abundance, so their efforts is
gonna look different from a neighborhood like Inglewood folded map
has definitely been included in those conversations of how people
(45:49):
can be helped. And so that is one of the
other primary things that's being discussed publicly in Chicago. It's
just the banks banks still not offering fair lending practices
to the neighborhoods that were a redline. And then also,
(46:11):
you know, even beyond land trust conversations about the appraisal process,
how that also hinders home ownership value increasing in certain neighborhoods.
So all of those things are in conversation and on
the table. So yes, this is thank you for the question,
Thank you so much. I'm going to read a question
(46:31):
from Aaron Masked, some of which you addressed. He asks,
how do we bridge the gap? This gap between that
I courted Wade referring to how do we bridge that gap?
How do we talk to people who don't think that
gap exists? You don't talk to people who don't think gap,
don't You just don't waste the time with that. Another
(46:53):
thing Wade saying that really stuck with me. He said,
you know, dismantling racism and segregation seems like such a
big thing you just can't fix. And he said, you know,
folded map providing him a way to feel like he was.
(47:15):
And that's just what I want to remind people that
we're still struggling with racism and segregation and systemic racism.
Although we have policies and laws, but that doesn't work.
It has to be through our personal lives, like we
have to make it personal. That's the only way that
(47:35):
systems can stop becoming systems, because we have to change
the thoughts. It's the thoughts that are systemic. What people
think of each other is systemic. And the only way
you can change thoughts is by changing yours. And the
only way you can do that is by getting to
know other people. And how you choose to do that
(47:57):
can be up to you, but it is a very
real way that works. I don't want people to minimize
the impact of literally getting to know someone who has
a different lived experience. It's powerful, has been proven that
that's a guaranteed way to develop empathy. So you know,
(48:18):
there is another version of erring out there in some
other neighborhood. You know, and dis imagine if you all
met each other, you know what, the issues that he
has will become important to you. And that is the
goal of folded Map is to help people become more empathetic.
(48:41):
So that's what I would suggest, you know, just keep
it simple. If you find someone interesting who is different
than you, strike up a conversation, talk to them, and
just pursue the relationship. Yeah. I'm gonna do a potentially
annoying thing here, but go to quote myself, which is
(49:03):
in my ted talk about deconstructing racism. I've made this
comment that systems are just collective stories we all believe in.
And what you've answered to Aaron's question tonka Is reminds
me of that in a different way. If enough people
do believe the gap exists, and enough people work to
(49:23):
build that bridge, create that dialogue, and establish a relationship
that can become the new system, It's almost the numbers game,
and there are many people who are interested in doing that.
We may not all be aware of how many of
us there are. I'm going to read a question from
Betsy from the Great NYC. Are you creating programs that
(49:44):
teachers can use like a teaching guy, Yes, I am
actually doing that right now. So one of my goals
was to have Bolded Map be a curriculum in Chicago
Public school system, but my collaboration with them, a partnership,
was kind of interrupted by them adopting you know, New
(50:05):
York Times six nineteen project, which is amazing. So I
still wanted teachers and educators to be able to access
um not only just the material from Folded Map, but
from my other projects interviews. So I am in the
process of creating a website that educators or just the
(50:27):
public in general can access and use as instructional resources
for existing curriculums. So the goal is to eventually have
a Folded Map curriculum, but until then, I want to
make my interviews, the clips I have of Inglewood, the photography,
the maps, win interviews, all of those things from all
(50:49):
of my collective projects available for the public to use
as instructional tools for whatever it is they're doing. Because
there's a lot of great curriculums already out there, and
I know that people and educators are constantly looking for
resources to support or to make their curriculums fresh. So
(51:10):
I just decided to kind of go that route, and
we will be hopefully making that website available in Thank
you Betsy from the great NYC for that great question.
And now we're going to hear from Ned. All Right,
I'm that kid. I'm calling from Madison and Wisconsin. You know,
(51:31):
we have a definite divide in my child's school between
you know, the families to live. On one side of
the street, that's mostly apartments, mostly black families, mostly poorer families.
On the other side of the street, it's houses, mostly
the white folks who go to the school. To school
itself is incredibly diverse, but we don't live near each other, right.
And one of the things that I guess, just as
(51:53):
as I've been listening and I've been thinking about, you know,
kind of these flip line I think about the issues
of like low income housing solutions and other things. The
question I want to ask you, though, as you've been
working on this project, how have you personally seen your
concept of what racial justice social justice in some of
these issues like housing and other things. What does that
(52:15):
look like for you? How has this work impacted you
personally in your thoughts on those things. Yes, so thank
you for the question. One specific example I can give
is when I expanded the project to include map twins
from the western side of the city, which is very
(52:35):
different from the north and south side. So Chicago is
like a triangle, you know, like North South and then
it extends here and then there's a western part, and
so on that western part, it's still the North South
racial divide, but it's just ten minutes apart as opposed
to our apart. And so when I interviewed those map twins,
(52:56):
they talked about gentrification, which wasn't something that was brought
up North South maps wins because that really has happened
from white to black communities. Traditionally in Chicago, Latino neighborhoods
get gentrified and because of that gentrification, they move into
neighborhoods where they can afford, which is generally black neighborhoods.
(53:19):
So the maps win started talking about gentrification, and it's
always people against the gentrifiers. And so I've used that
conversation to help people understand how we have to redirect
our anger, and we have to redirect it to our
(53:40):
elected officials and the people who create the housing policies
that determine low income, high income neighborhoods, because at the
end of the day. The white people who are viewed
as gentrifiers to whatever neighborhoods, honestly, they're viewed as dollar
(54:02):
signs by the developers incorporations, and they can't really help that.
Wherever they move for affordability, businesses just follow them, like
everything they ever want just follows them. So I just
told people, you know that if we're gonna continue having
(54:22):
this conversation about gentrification, we cannot be blaming you know.
Of course, once gentrification happens, the people who are new
to the community should pay attention to the community that
existed there before. But the issue does not start with
people who move into a neighborhood and then eventually the
neighborhood changes not as a result of what they said
(54:45):
they want, but because of what follows them, which is resources,
which is money and development. And so the only way
we can tackle that is becoming unified and addressing that
saying no, it's not fair that neighborhoods where young white
professionals move because they want to live someplace too that
they can afford, that the neighborhood starts to change because
(55:08):
of developers and corporations who view them also as dollar
signs and so that is one way that we've been
kind of having that conversation in Chicago that kind of
addresses the class part of it, because at the end
of the day, people move to neighborhoods that they feel
(55:28):
like they can afford. How they determine the criteria for
the neighborhood deals. That's a lot of other stuff, but
remembering that commonality that people live where they can afford,
and we have to question what goes into making a
neighborhood affordable or not. So that's just very general conceptual answer,
(55:51):
but you know, that's just part of the conversation that
has to happen for people to even think differently about
the income. Yeah, thank you for an excellent question Ned
from Madison, Wisconsin and uh in an excellent answer to
Nika Johnson from Chicago. I just want to say what
(56:13):
an incredible pleasure this has been. I knew from seeing
the project from the outside this was something special. We
had a brief call with Tanika a few weeks ago.
It was clear this was special, and I think what's
remarkable is some of what we've already heard that Tanika,
your medium is also the people that you've in beauty
level of trust in us to go through this process
(56:35):
and not try to fix everything like the mess is okay,
and it's a part of the process, and it ties
back to so much of what we believe in this
show that relationship building is key to citizening, and so
you've demonstrated a really beautiful, literally artistic way to do
that that adds a third dimension to the reports of
what our communities are like and gives us a bit
(56:57):
more language and imagination to create the communities that we
actually want to live in. All that is tremendous and remarkable,
and uh, thank you, thank you, thank you. We're gonna
find that fold We are beyond grateful to Tonica Johnson
(57:18):
for joining us. You can follow Tonica J on Instagram
t O n I K A J and visit Folded
map project dot com. Find this episode, a full transcript,
show notes and more at how do Citizen dot com,
and please show you a support for the show in
(57:38):
the form of a review and or a rating. Makes
a big difference with these algorithmic overloaders, y'all. But now
for the fun part this episode's actions. We start off
with our internal actions. There's three of them. The first
pretty light and they get a little heavier from there.
I want you to listen to another podcast, this American Life,
(58:01):
not the whole series that's like thousands of hours, two
episodes that sit under the title House Rules. These two
episodes examined segregation in the United States in a beautiful way.
You can find the link in our show notes on
the website of the Digital Scholarship Lab for the University
of Richmond in Virginia. You can explore this interactive map
(58:24):
that lets you see where segregation got planted in the
United States in so many ways by looking at the
loan rating codes from the Home Owners Loan Corporation around
the time of the New Deal. Find your city and
look at that history and think about is it's still
reflected today. The third internal action has a lot of
(58:47):
detail I want you to find at how to citizen
dot com, but I lay it on your pretty simply
like this. We think we came up with a way
for you to explore a folded map like experience for
theo who don't live in Chicago right without having to
move to the city of Chicago, which is a great place.
But that's a big commitment for a podcast where you
are try this Instead of that first step, reflect on
(59:11):
your neighborhood and write down the things you love, the
things you depend on, the specific places that you frequent,
the library, the grocery stores you go to, the cultural
institutions you value, the news sources you trust at a
very very local level. Then I want you to think
about the neighborhood you don't go to. Think about that
(59:33):
part of town that you think of as too dangerous
or too bad to visit, or maybe it's too wealthy
and too unwelcoming to visit. Either way, there's a part
of your town or your region that you do not frequent.
I want you to picture this place, find it, name it,
and then I want you to explore it using the
(59:55):
same lens you used to think about your neighborhood. Find
a restaurant there that serves the food you love in
order to take out or delivery. Find a library there
and compare its programming to the one offered by your
own library. We're in COVID time, so I'm not going
to encourage you to physically explore a bunch of neighborhoods
(01:00:16):
and indoor spaces, but find artists and cultural institutions and
local news sources in the part of town you never
go to and tune into that. Our goal is to
help you become a better citizen of your own neighborhood
and your greater city and regional area, not just your neighborhood.
(01:00:40):
On the external front. For those who live in Chicago,
you better sign up at that folded map project dot com.
Do it now. Tonica has finished the action kit and
it is available for you, so please check that out.
And whether you live there or not, if you know
an educator, share this project with them. In particular. Folded
(01:01:01):
map Project dot com slash video has resources designs specifically
for educators. So download the action kit and try to
do it. Try to do it, and if you take
any of these actions as always, share them with us
by sending an email to action at how to citizen
dot com. Put the word bridges in the subject line.
(01:01:23):
That'll help us sort this out and brag online about
your citizen in using the hashtag how to citizen. You
can also send us general feedback or ideas to comments
at how to citizen dot com and you can text
me two oh to eight nine four eight eight four
four drop the word citizen in there, so I know
how you found me and I'll give you extra special
(01:01:45):
attention and alert. How does Citizen with barrettun Days production
of I Heart Radio podcast Executive produced by Miles Gray,
Nick Stump, Elizabeth Stewart, and barrettune Day Thursty, Produced by
Joel Smith, Edited by Justin Smith. Powered by You
Welcome to How to Citizen with baratun Day, a show
where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb, reclaim
it from those who have weaponized it, and remind ourselves
how to wield our collective power. I'm barratun Day. I
want to thank you you in general for listening, but
(00:30):
some use in particular for the actions you've taken, or
the messages you've shared, or just the way you've talked
about the show. To the group of American teachers in Casablanca.
It's an honor to have made it to your book club,
and I'm glad we're helping you feel more close to home.
(00:51):
Thanks for hitting us up at our email action at
how to Citizen dot com. To a studios avala on
I g. Thank you for turning our principles of what
it means to citizen into amazing and beautiful art and
using that hashtag how to Citizen We see you. And
to Phoebe let at The New York Times, thank you
(01:12):
for including us in your piece podcast to inform your vote.
Phoebe wrote, and I quote in each episode Thurston That's
me and his guests showed that the care American show
for one another every day is reason for optimism, and
the show's format practices what the content preaches. Yea, we
(01:32):
just got recommended by the New York Times. That feels
good and just a moment of celebration. All right, back
to work. We recorded the episode you're about to hear
with our live zoom audience, which you can join by
visiting how to citizen dot com and signing up for
the emails or text in order to get the link. Now,
I'm gonna pass the mic to myself as we learned
(01:54):
to build bridges not walls. So far in this series,
we have grounded ourselves in love and power. We've explored
how to citizen with COVID, with public safety, and with
worker rights. In this episode, We're gonna citizen a little
closer to home, literally closer to home. Part of how
(02:17):
the citizen requires us to care about the collective and
not just our individual selves, to be concerned with how
our actions are the actions of our government, impact our neighbors,
our communities, and our regions. Another part of how to
Citizen centis on showing up and participating, being in relationship
to others in our immediate proximity, not just our online friends.
(02:40):
We are proud to have a guest today who embodies
through her art how to citizen in her community, and
she's created a profound project that can build bridges and
communities around the world. Let me set the scene for you,
the South Side of Chicago. What images, words, phrases occurred
you when you hear that, Probably possibly at least something
(03:03):
along the lines of criminal headlines and gun violence, and
maybe Michelle Obama mixed in there. But the image that
the media paints is of a community constantly in strife, struggle,
maybe even words like carnage. And yet this is also
a community of people living and working together to make
(03:24):
lives better. No matter what else you see, read, or
hear about this place, there is another story of this place.
I know the story of this person thanks to you, literally,
thanks to one of you who heard our first two
episodes hit me up on I G I really do
read them and said you need to know about this
(03:46):
photo journalist as visual artist out of the South Side
of Chicago. So I want to thank Chris new Router
for putting me on our guest for this episode. Was
born and raised in Inglewood, a neighborhood on the South
side of Chicago. She's a visual artist and photographer, and
in she helped co found Resident Association of Greater Englewood.
(04:07):
She's also the co founder of Inglewood's Arts Collective. In
sen she was featured in Chicago Magazine as a Chicagoan
of the Year, and in ten she was named one
of the Field Foundations leaders for a New Chicago That's
Not Enough. Most recently, she was appointed as a member
of the Cultural Advisory Council to the Department of Cultural
(04:27):
Affairs and Special Events by the Chicago City Council. If
you can't tell, she is Chicago, and she's here with
us today to talk more about her project, Folded Map,
which visually connects residents who live at car responding addresses
on the north and south sides of one of America's
greatest cities. We hope she's going to spark your creativity
(04:51):
and imagination. Please welcome Tonica Johnson. Welcome to How to
Citizen with barrattun Day. Thank you for making time to
be here with us. Tanika, you started this project as
a visual investigation of Chicago's neighborhoods. You were using the
grid system in this beautiful spacetime star Trekky like, let's
(05:15):
fold it way to directly compare photographs and videos of
North and South Side blocks and residents for those who
are unfamiliar, the South Side being predominantly black, lower income,
the North Side being much more white and having many
more resources. Why did you start doing this? What was
(05:37):
your motivation as an artist for this work. So there's
the inspiration of the idea that started while I was
in high school, and then there is the motivation to
do the idea. Well, I want it all, So let's
go back to high school. So, um, in high school.
(05:59):
I grew up in Inglewood, and when I was thirteen
years old, I was commuting all the way to the
North Side from Inglewood to my high school, which is
fifteen miles north of Inglewood. And it is a selective
enrollment school, which basically means that it has students from
(06:20):
all over Chicago, and in the nineties, specifically selective enrollment schools.
Because they had students from all over Chicago, they were
able to curate the racial demographic of their student body
to reflect the percentage of the racial demographic in Chicago.
So there was equal percentage of each race. But you
(06:43):
can imagine, you know, being immersed in new friendships from
all over Chicago. But alongside of that, every day, while
I was traveling from Inglewood, fifteen miles north to the
predominantly white neighborhood that my high school is in, I
noticed so many things on that commute, and and one
was how different my neighborhood looked from the neighborhood that
(07:04):
my high school was in. I noticed that my neighborhood
definitely looked disinvested in. I noticed that we had vacant lots,
fast food restaurants, no franchise restaurants, no cafes, And the
neighborhood that my high school was in literally was the opposite.
(07:25):
It had so many cool things, boutiques, cafes, flowers, tree
lined streets, and I also recognized that the streets were
named the same. On this everyday commute, I was like,
oh wow, Ashland, and my neighborhood definitely doesn't look like this,
you know, the same way that it does on the
(07:47):
north Side. And so every day for four years, this
is what I saw on my commute. And so I
just listened to music and looked out the window and
noticed the disparity between my neighborhood and the neighborhood my
high school was in. But going to school is when
I really felt like I was introduced to Chicago because
(08:07):
our friendships are allowing us to explore each other's neighborhood.
So by the end of senior year in high school,
you can have a black boy from Chicago's West Side
tell you that his favorite Filipino dishes pawn sick, you know.
So this was the kind of diversity that we experienced.
And I knew then that although our city was segregated,
(08:31):
that relationships could be built across those racial lines. So
that stuck with me, and it didn't matter to me
as I got older and how many people talked about segregation.
I experienced what diversity and integration looks like it feels
like in Chicago, and I just carried that with me.
So when I got older and started to do community work,
(08:55):
and then the ten presidential election year came about, and
you know, current president was talking about Chicago very horribly,
primarily focusing on the gun violence, and I just felt
like that was such a cheap way to talk about
the larger systemic issues that created an environment for gun
(09:16):
violence to become an issue. And I said, you know what,
people just only want to focus on gun violence and
not the root issue. Gun violence has not always been
in neighborhoods like Inglewood and had a very clear beginning,
and what happened before gun violence became an issue is
something a lot of people don't know about. And I
(09:38):
wanted to do a project that clearly showed what the
present day impact of the historic segregation and discriminatory housing policies,
what that made our neighborhoods look like today, and that's
what prompted me to start working on Folded Map. Your
(09:59):
attempt to recreate connection is only possible or necessary because
there was a policy to create disconnection in the past.
And you alluded to this already talking about how the
present we're living in these decisions that were made a
long time ago and you experienced it as a high schooler.
Can you explain more about the other maps before you
(10:21):
came and folded them that defined Chicago and what families
could live where these red lining maps? Yes, so you know,
as people in this day and time are learning about
systemic racism. Um A huge part of how that was
able to sustain in our country as metropolitan cities became
more populated is the federal maps that essentially outline the
(10:49):
neighborhoods and locations and growing cities where the black population
was starting to move to and where the white pop
relation we're living at and will move to. And those maps,
the whole maps h l lc UM. They basically determined
(11:12):
which neighborhoods banks should approve mortgages or business loans, and
that ultimately affected how different white and black neighborhoods were
a resource. So in addition to creating this segregation basically
(11:37):
not approving a loan to a black family who were
interested in moving into this neighborhood that was defined as
a white neighborhood, they also had experienced discriminatory lending practices
by banks in the neighborhoods that were defined as black.
(11:57):
So those distinctions ultimately lead over the course of those
next sixty years, has resulted in this disparity and how
investment is in these neighborhoods. And so those were the
maps that ultimately determined the segregation that we continue to
(12:18):
see today replicated in so many different metropolitan neighborhoods. So
not only did they define the race of neighborhoods, but
they also determined where banks should and should not approve loans,
not just mortgages, but businesses that wanted to get started.
(12:39):
And due to the racist climate of that time, a
lot of the black neighborhoods didn't receive loans of any
kind to invest in their neighborhoods. So those are the
maps that I definitely was thinking of in reference to
creating and using Chicago's map as is a point of healing,
(13:02):
because we had those maps that created an exacerbated fear
not only for black families, but also white families. White
families were told that, oh, black people are moving to
your neighborhood. It's going to turn into a neighborhood that
doesn't get loans. Your housing values are gonna go down.
So there were white families who could possibly would have
(13:25):
stayed in the neighborhoods to live with black people had
they not been scared, you know, to the fact that
they're housing the homes that they've invested in were going
to lose value. And you know, those maps really cemented
segregation into our country, and that's why it was important
(13:45):
for me to use a map as healing. I really
like this idea of a map twin It's one thing
too conceptually and analytically think about this coordinate has a
corresponding coordinate. It takes me back to geometry class. But
there are people at those coordinates who have a story
(14:09):
and an experience, and so you have created these really
interesting possibilities for pairings of people that you call map twins.
Can you explain more about this concept and how that's
an entry point to participate in the fold of map. Yes.
So in Chicago, we have normalized our segregations at the
point of us joking about it, which you know, that's
(14:32):
what happens when you normalize stuff, you end up having weird,
unusual jokes about it. And so every Chicagoan jokes about
the fact that when you take our Red Line train,
you notice the colorship it goes from black on the
south side to white on the north side. And so
I really wanted us to, like, as Chicagoans interrupt, how
(14:57):
we've normalized it, you know, for them to understand how
it impacts our social networks. So I wanted to really
utilize Chicago's grid map, something that is uniquely Chicago, and
the fact that you have those coordinates that you know,
not in a lot of different places, and so I
wanted to use our grid map to reveal to people
(15:21):
exactly what you said, that these addresses that we mistakenly
go to sometimes, these addresses that feel like they reveal
so much about people's live experience, but we don't really know.
To use those addresses as a way to connect us
all and to let people know that you do have
(15:44):
a very distant neighbor fifteen miles away from you on
the same street, because we have so many streets in
Chicago that run the full north and south of Chicago,
and I wanted people to start thinking about they're distant neighbors,
regardless of the neighborhood, as family. And so I wanted
(16:06):
people to connect using the addresses or the neighborhoods that
would touch each other if you were to foe Chicago
in the middle, but then also to view them as
as family, because we are, whether we like it or not,
we are a family in this city, in this world,
and it's best that we start to get to know
(16:29):
each other. And so that was the way that I
wanted to create maps wins for people to feel some
kind of connection to someone who they share a street
name with. There's something that strikes me about the fear
(16:55):
that the government planted in white residents to say, you know,
black people are gonna bring your property values down, They're
gonna bring their neighborhood problems with them. It's like, those
are neighborhood problems because of what you did to them.
You don't get to blame people for the thing that
you did to make the situation be that way. Um,
(17:19):
A map as a tool of healing as opposed to
just a tool of division is a really powerful idea.
And these pairings that you've helped facilitate are powerful and
occasionally awkward. And can you talk through when you get
to map twins together, what are you going for? What happens?
(17:41):
I mean, I can tell you I watched the video
clip where I didn't know you're gonna ask people how
much they paid for their houses, And when you see
people react to each other. Somebody was like, I was
glad to get a deal for five hundred thousand dollars
and the black person is like, and like, we about
to paid thirty tho dollars for this house. So to
(18:01):
talk about the interaction amongst the twins and what has
happened there, I just always uplift them because These are
people who self selected to participate. I did a mass
solicitation to people on blocks that I was going to
include in the project. So the maps wins are the
(18:22):
people who said, I want to try this weird thing out.
And regardless if awkward moments happened, all of them were
connected in the fact that they thought it was important
enough for them to even participate. And so I think
(18:42):
them knowing that with each other created a sense of
trust and a sense of I know that this person
wants to improve the very thing that will reveal itself
in this conversation as being awkward. So a lot of
the map twins, you know, hadn't experienced each other's neighborhoods
(19:05):
just on a peer resident level. You know, a few
of the residents who lived on the North Side had
come to the South Side before, but primarily through volunteering,
so they hadn't met someone as just a neighbor. And
so a lot of them started to understand who has
(19:27):
benefited from the segregation that exists in Chicago. And it
is uncomfortable, you know, when you meet someone who you
have learned to be interested in and then you all
answer the question of what's missing in your neighborhood, and
(19:48):
one person says basic stuff like oh, better schools, community
center for children, restaurants, grocery store, just the basic needs,
and you can't even come up with anything in your neighborhood.
You start to develop empathy, and then the person who
(20:09):
is saying the things that they don't have in their
neighborhood feels as if, oh, someone cares. Like the people
who actually have the very thing that I'm saying we
need in in my neighborhood, who I possibly thought didn't care,
They're actually listening. So it was reciprocal listening and learning.
(20:31):
So all of them had that. Even if there were
varying degrees of awkward moments, all of them were rooted
in that. And I think there are great examples of
how to model those kind of conversations. We haven't talked
about that with each other before, especially in such a
(20:51):
place specific project like Chicago, and it's gonna be weird.
It's gonna be awkward and unusual, and we need to
just get okay with that. Need to start being okay
with saying the prices of stuff, because that is what
reveals the true impact of inequity and how it is
a barrier to people progressing not only in their life,
(21:15):
but you know, from generations from now, and we have
to start being okay with saying words like black, white, Latino,
Asian and then also being corrected, you know. So I
think the Maps Wins conversations reveal all of that. MHM.
How did you learn to facilitate that sort of necessary
(21:37):
but uncomfortable series of conversations. Well, I would say formally
and just creating the questions. That is rooted in the
fact that I went to college for journalism, and prior
to that, in high school, I was, you know, one
of them weirdo our kids, but my interest was in
(22:00):
witchery and writing articles. So I've always been interested in
interviewing people, which really comes down to me just being nosy,
you know, I'm just nosy and people are so interested
to me, and going to high school with so many
different people, you just like start to ask questions like,
oh my gosh, where do you live, where are you from,
(22:20):
what do you like to do? Wow? So all of
that was carried over into folded Matt. But what was
difficult for me to do that I really hadn't learned
in journalism school was how to not interrupt people answering
your questions that are ultimately in conversation with each other.
(22:42):
So I would start, you know, by asking them both
the same questions, questions that I had asked them separately,
just to get them used to it. So no one
was really going to be surprised by what they were
thinking of or how they were thinking of answering the question.
You were only going to be surprised by what you
heard someone else answering. So for me, I had to
(23:03):
learn how to just shut up, like after you asked
the question, let people talk, and then when the awkward
moments happened, don't interrupt, like see how they fix it,
see what they resort to in order to fix it.
And that was really the gold of the project is
(23:26):
seeing how two strangers interact around these seemingly simple questions,
but that clearly reveal a different lived experience. And so
I I had to learn how to shut up and
stay out of the way. There were so many times
where I understood both point of views and I was
and I wanted to explain and like, no, what you
really means is, but I couldn't. So that was a
(23:50):
learning lesson for me. It's an act of journalism, an
act of community building, and act of art all in one.
How do you see yourself? Well, now, I changed the
title on my artist's website so often. At first it
was photographer, then it was a social justice activist, then
(24:11):
I was like social justice artist, then it was trans
diisciplinary artists. So I don't know I changed it, you know,
according to what people tell me. I am um, but
I just say artists and the and the medium that
I use is photography, but even that's changing because you know,
(24:32):
I've included video, I've included so many other things, like
you know, public installations, so just artists. I think that's
what I've grown to accept, partly because my neighborhood like
bestowed that title on me. I was trying to avoid
it for so long because I felt like in order
to really claim yourself as an artist, you have to
(24:54):
I've had produced something, and they were calling me an
artist way before I had my first exit vision, way
before I thought of folded map. And so once they
told me no you are you are just accepted, I
was like, okay, I am and me taking on that
title because they uplifted me enough to say, no, you're
(25:17):
an artists and we're proud of you. That allowed me
to open my mind up to think of projects, you know,
like actually doing folded map. I would add Tonica that
your medium is far greater than photography. Your medium is
your city, and your medium are these people who you
treat with such respect. You create a space for them
(25:40):
to have dialogue, and then you trust them enough to
let them have it. That's art. That is not facilitation,
That is not lawyer ring, that is not conflict resolution NG.
That is creating and it's very powerful. So I just
wanted to observe that as an outsider to tell you
(26:01):
what you do. You are an artist, but you are
your medium is also us and I appreciate it. Thank you.
I'm to use that you should use that. We're recording
so you can get it. You get it perfectly. There's
a quote that we found about you. I want to
share with you and then ask your thoughts about how
this connects to your work. Since then, she has transformed
this project into an advocacy and policy influencing tool that
(26:25):
invites audiences to open a dialogue and question how we
are all socially impacted by racial and institutional conditions that
segregate the city, So can you tell me more about
how this project is being used as an advocacy tool
and how it's affecting policy. When you create a piece
of work, like you have no idea how people are
(26:48):
going to respond, and so you can't ever foresee what
that response will make you do or feel as an artist,
is what it will influence you to create after that.
So I had only seen Folded Map as an art project,
like this project that was in my head that I
(27:10):
finally got out and once people started responding and connecting
to the idea of a map twin, the idea of saying, yes,
the city is segregated and it has contributed to maybe
some racist thoughts I have, or yes it's unfair that
(27:32):
this North Side neighborhood has exactly what my neighborhood needs.
So it was more of an affirmation that Chicagoan started
to use to say, you know, look, this is what
it is. And because the response was so great and
people wanted to participate find out if I was gonna
(27:52):
do more map twins, it really started to generate a
larger citywide conversation and primarily through my social media, that
started to grow and people that wanted to see what
I was sharing and then comment on it, and eventually,
you know, it led to policy influence and organizations becoming
(28:17):
aware of it, like Metropolitan Planning Council. Most recently, our
president Tony Preckwinkle, who ran for mayor. She saw my
folded map animated film and quickly identified the fact that
it could prove certain policies that she wanted to introduce.
(28:39):
That it's a clear visual example using our grid map
to demonstrate the neglect and the unfairness of what our
city has experienced fifty sixty years ago. And so a
lot of organizations and individuals who are working hard and
(29:03):
tirelessly two kind of resolve this inequity, began to refer
to folded map, and so they didn't have to refer
to a report primarily with just statistics. They were able
to say, this report reveals this, but look at this project.
These are people who met each other who are clearly
(29:26):
talking about the inequity between home ownership amenities. So they
started to use folded map as evidence of something that
reports just weren't able to translate. And also having the photographs,
you know, I definitely have started to accept the pioneering
(29:52):
impact of photographing Chicago's two different sides and comparing them
because I think in courts um that hasn't been done before.
No one really thought of, oh, let's just photograph these
streets that are the same and just show the difference. So,
you know, that is my contribution to understanding the present
(30:16):
day impact of segregation in Chicago, and I think all
of the reports that have been done it was really
just missing the the visual and the human aspect to it.
And so that's what a lot of policymakers have been
using Folded Map to push their efforts forward. But then
also the Folded Map family is I call them. A
(30:40):
lot of them are educators and a lot of them
are people who want to learn more. So they're also
learning about different issues and policies through Folded Map. So
that is how it just transformed into a tool that
educators and policymakers are using to push their work forward.
Are there any other outcomes that you hope to see
(31:03):
from this project? Yes, one in particular that I'm holding
up actually is the Folded Map action kits. So many
people told me they wanted to participate in Folded Map,
but I had to let people know, like I'm not
gonna do this forever. I can't pare people up. Maybe
I can create something where you all can do it yourself.
(31:26):
So I created the Folded Map Action Kit, which is
a literal kick um that we're mailing to some of
the select people on Folded Map contact list, but that
will be available for download on folded Map website, where
it's a self guided invite to run errands in your
map twin neighborhood and share back your experience. I wanted
(31:50):
people to be able to contribute to the expansion of
Folded Map, but in a more personalized way that would
allow them to not enter into a neighborhood good with
the preconceived ideas or the stereotypes. Because as a photographer,
I know very well that what you're told about a
(32:11):
location and a group of people will be reflected in
what you pay attention to. So it's kind of like
a self fulfilling prophecy. So if you're told that elin
is horrible, you're gonna pay attention to things that look
horrible to you. You know, you won't notice other things.
And so I wanted to create a project or an
(32:31):
activity where it allowed you to meet regular residents just
you know. And so that's when I came up with
the idea to have people run errands in your map
twin neighborhood, and errands that are associated to the very
(32:53):
specific inequities. So go buy an organic apple in your
map twin neighborhood. Go take out twenty dollars at an
a T M go By lotion. That's a very different
experience in neighborhoods. People wouldn't think it is, but it is.
Um go see your local post office, local library, so
(33:14):
people can as close as possible feel what it is
to walk in their distant neighbors shoes. But that is
something that I am excited for Chicagoans to do and
for people in other cities as well. It's activity that
can be applied to so many cities in our country.
(33:36):
And I really just view Chicago as a microcosm of
what is really going on in our nation with a
segregation and equities that is just what it is, and
a lot of metropolitan cities. And so that's what I'm
hoping with the expansion of folded Map into this action kit,
(33:57):
that people will enter neighborhoods in a way that isn't
just gazing you know that they can actually create some
empathy to the neighborhoods that they visit that don't have
the resources, and then for the people who visit neighborhoods
that are over resourced, for them to think about, Wow,
(34:22):
this neighborhood has things that I'm entitled to. Some people
don't know how over resourced other neighborhoods are, and unfortunately
they can start to think that that's the norm. That
my neighborhood being disinvested in is how it's supposed to be.
And so that's my goal with the Activity Kid is
(34:44):
to have this conversation become more personalized. I want you
to dream with me for a second, Tunika. I love Chicago,
and I've never been a full time resident, visited a lot,
spent to summer there. I like to claim my little piece.
But as you said, our whole nation is segregated and
(35:06):
has been pulled apart by various maps of division rather
than maps of healing. What other elements could you see
emerging from this? Maybe you've got a hint of it.
Maybe you just had some advice for the non Chicago
wins out there about principles they could apply to proceed
on their own down this path. What do you say
to that you can connect with people through your passion?
(35:28):
And I think that's something our country has not had
the opportunity for individuals to experience. You know, we we've
associated our where we should live based on class, you know,
the amount of money we make. Now just imagine if
people determine where they live based off of the community
of people they shared a passion with. And I just
(35:51):
hope that people take away from folded map that they
can apply to where they live. It's just meeting people
through your interests and your passions, not focusing on people
who have the same lived experience is you because passions
cross the racial divide, the geographic divide, and it allows
(36:12):
you an opportunity to see someone from a different lived
experience as your equal because you have a shared passion.
And so I just hope that people really start to
think about how and why we're divided racially, because I
know that there's a huge population of us who don't
(36:35):
want to interact that way. We don't want to be divided.
We see the value and the benefit of connecting with
people from different lived experiences and it's fun. It's so
fun to learn other people's culture and to see what's different,
to see what you view is weird or what you
don't like. It's fun and it also expands your world view.
(37:01):
And we're in a place and time where it's global,
you know, we're not living in places where it's just
people who look like us. And so that's what I
would hope people would take away, just the curiosity of
getting to know history, the curiosity of wanting to get
(37:22):
to know other people. I've got one more for you,
and then we're gonna go open up the floodgates of
questions and comments. The strong foundation of this show is
that we see the word citizen as a verb rather
than strictly as a legal status. If you interpret citizen
as a verb, how do you define what it means
(37:43):
to citizens? I would say to learn about your life
in your family's history and how that connects two our
larger history. Because sometimes when you learn history in school,
(38:03):
you don't feel the immediate connection to your present day life.
And sometimes we go and look for stories of how
to humanize history in books and other people, and really
it's just already within your family, you know. So I
would say one easy way to citizen is learn your
(38:27):
family history and learn how that has impacted maybe decisions
you've made in your life and beliefs that you have
or that you disagree with now, but really your family history. Yes,
that was great. I feel so vindicated too, because I
(38:48):
told somebody something like that the other day and then
this dope artist just said it. So now, thank you.
It's not about me, but thank you. Yes, there's a
(39:10):
comment that I pulled from one of your videos that
I I want to get to as a guy named
Wade who I saw in one of your videos. He's
one of your map twins. You know Wade as you're
smiling and recognition and you know you asked Wade, or
someone asked what about would you encourage people to take
part in the folded Map project? And he said, quote,
(39:30):
having an open mind and being willing to do something
new and get out of your comfort zone is important
if we're going to become a more united city and
as citizens of the city really have a connection with
the entire city and not just half of it. You've
got to sometimes take the initiative and do the uncomfortable thing.
I want to encourage anyone who wants to bridge that
(39:51):
gap that we all know was there. You should just
do it. That's my boy, right, Like I said, that's
your medium, then I gotta set this up. This is
exciting because this is the person who actually first mentioned
Tonica Johnson and the Folded Map project to me. So,
(40:13):
Chris new Router is in the house. I'm Christie Router.
I'm a middle aged white lady who lives on the
North Side. I'm in a weird neighborhood called Bowmanville, which
is pretty close to Edgewater, which is sort of the
north Side focus of Folded Map. My day job is
in forensic engineering, so I have like an architectural background,
(40:37):
and I first fell in love with Folded Map because
of the beautiful sort of architectural photos that that Tanka took.
And so I went down to Englewood Branded and saw
the exhibit after hearing it on NPR, and I just
fell in love. And I've a comment and then some questions.
(40:57):
One of the things that is really great about Tanka
is that there's so much joy and celebration of these communities,
you know, whether it's north Side, the you know over
resource neighborhood I live in, or um you know, south
side communities like Englewood that frankly are getting just horrible
(41:17):
media coverage and it bothers me as a Chicagoan who
loves my city that you know, it's described as a
war zone and we forget I think that people live
in these neighborhoods, even if there's you know, a gang
problem on a block. These are thriving neighborhoods that people
live in and we need to stop measuring our communities
(41:38):
only in terms of, you know, monetary wealth. And that's
what I really love about this project in particular. One
of the questions I had for Tuanika is how do
you see this being applied in other communities? I see
a lot of the chat was really focused on that.
Thank you for asking that question. Um, I've been thinking
(41:58):
a lot about that, and when I've spoken in other
cities of the States, I've always ended up saying every
place has a fold. So that is going to be
the next guide that I create after I commit to
getting this action kid out in two weeks, is a
(42:20):
find your fold. And it doesn't matter what kind of
mapping system your city has. There is segregation and there's
usually a street, a house, a landmark, something that divides
and I want to help people know that you don't
need an exact grid map to do this or replicate
(42:43):
this in your city, just your reflection about where the
divide is fold it right there. Even if it's in
a classroom or a lunch room, there is usually a
divide a fold, and so I want to be able
to encourage people to find that fold and use art
(43:06):
to think of the fold like. It doesn't have to
be so rigid, you know, conceptually, it could be a
fold in instruments, certain students in class picks. There is
always something that is a division, and the goal of
Folded Map is to use that divide to bring people together.
(43:28):
So I'm definitely going to create find your Fold guide,
explaining to people my process and how I did folded Map,
and you know, give them the instructions on how to
do it in their location. So that's soon to come. Maybe. Um,
(43:53):
all right, We've got a live question from Mama Sarah Great,
Thank you. Hi. I'm from Rochester, New York. Are the
folks here in the city, Roots Community, Land Trust and
Rochester have been doing tremendous work around educating about redlining
how our city was divided, and I'm just curious who
you're connecting with around efforts to educate beyond your project
(44:16):
into how your communities can rebuild from the grassroots, maybe
through land trust or other things. So beyond folded MAP,
I'm definitely connected with community organizations that are trying to
really specifically increase home ownership in neighborhoods like Inglewood. Land
(44:41):
trust is one of the you know, tools that people
are talking about. But then there's also the other issue
of repurposing schools that have been closed in neighborhoods like Inglewoods.
So all of those things are definitely being talked about
and Lord, but since neighborhoods in Chicago are like a
(45:03):
universe of their own, you can't apply one strategy to
all of these neighborhoods. Each neighborhood is very unique. Um
An example I can give is there's another South Side
neighborhood called Auburn, Gresham and Chatham, and these are neighborhoods
that have a strong home ownership base, but they're mostly
older Black people, and so their neighborhoods, even though they
(45:26):
have high home ownership, they don't have the other amenities
that you know, this aging population deserves, and so they
don't have grocery stores in abundance, so their efforts is
gonna look different from a neighborhood like Inglewood folded map
has definitely been included in those conversations of how people
(45:49):
can be helped. And so that is one of the
other primary things that's being discussed publicly in Chicago. It's
just the banks banks still not offering fair lending practices
to the neighborhoods that were a redline. And then also,
(46:11):
you know, even beyond land trust conversations about the appraisal process,
how that also hinders home ownership value increasing in certain neighborhoods.
So all of those things are in conversation and on
the table. So yes, this is thank you for the question,
Thank you so much. I'm going to read a question
(46:31):
from Aaron Masked, some of which you addressed. He asks,
how do we bridge the gap? This gap between that
I courted Wade referring to how do we bridge that gap?
How do we talk to people who don't think that
gap exists? You don't talk to people who don't think gap,
don't You just don't waste the time with that. Another
(46:53):
thing Wade saying that really stuck with me. He said,
you know, dismantling racism and segregation seems like such a
big thing you just can't fix. And he said, you know,
folded map providing him a way to feel like he was.
(47:15):
And that's just what I want to remind people that
we're still struggling with racism and segregation and systemic racism.
Although we have policies and laws, but that doesn't work.
It has to be through our personal lives, like we
have to make it personal. That's the only way that
(47:35):
systems can stop becoming systems, because we have to change
the thoughts. It's the thoughts that are systemic. What people
think of each other is systemic. And the only way
you can change thoughts is by changing yours. And the
only way you can do that is by getting to
know other people. And how you choose to do that
(47:57):
can be up to you, but it is a very
real way that works. I don't want people to minimize
the impact of literally getting to know someone who has
a different lived experience. It's powerful, has been proven that
that's a guaranteed way to develop empathy. So you know,
(48:18):
there is another version of erring out there in some
other neighborhood. You know, and dis imagine if you all
met each other, you know what, the issues that he
has will become important to you. And that is the
goal of folded Map is to help people become more empathetic.
(48:41):
So that's what I would suggest, you know, just keep
it simple. If you find someone interesting who is different
than you, strike up a conversation, talk to them, and
just pursue the relationship. Yeah. I'm gonna do a potentially
annoying thing here, but go to quote myself, which is
(49:03):
in my ted talk about deconstructing racism. I've made this
comment that systems are just collective stories we all believe in.
And what you've answered to Aaron's question tonka Is reminds
me of that in a different way. If enough people
do believe the gap exists, and enough people work to
(49:23):
build that bridge, create that dialogue, and establish a relationship
that can become the new system, It's almost the numbers game,
and there are many people who are interested in doing that.
We may not all be aware of how many of
us there are. I'm going to read a question from
Betsy from the Great NYC. Are you creating programs that
(49:44):
teachers can use like a teaching guy, Yes, I am
actually doing that right now. So one of my goals
was to have Bolded Map be a curriculum in Chicago
Public school system, but my collaboration with them, a partnership,
was kind of interrupted by them adopting you know, New
(50:05):
York Times six nineteen project, which is amazing. So I
still wanted teachers and educators to be able to access
um not only just the material from Folded Map, but
from my other projects interviews. So I am in the
process of creating a website that educators or just the
(50:27):
public in general can access and use as instructional resources
for existing curriculums. So the goal is to eventually have
a Folded Map curriculum, but until then, I want to
make my interviews, the clips I have of Inglewood, the photography,
the maps, win interviews, all of those things from all
(50:49):
of my collective projects available for the public to use
as instructional tools for whatever it is they're doing. Because
there's a lot of great curriculums already out there, and
I know that people and educators are constantly looking for
resources to support or to make their curriculums fresh. So
(51:10):
I just decided to kind of go that route, and
we will be hopefully making that website available in Thank
you Betsy from the great NYC for that great question.
And now we're going to hear from Ned. All Right,
I'm that kid. I'm calling from Madison and Wisconsin. You know,
(51:31):
we have a definite divide in my child's school between
you know, the families to live. On one side of
the street, that's mostly apartments, mostly black families, mostly poorer families.
On the other side of the street, it's houses, mostly
the white folks who go to the school. To school
itself is incredibly diverse, but we don't live near each other, right.
And one of the things that I guess, just as
(51:53):
as I've been listening and I've been thinking about, you know,
kind of these flip line I think about the issues
of like low income housing solutions and other things. The
question I want to ask you, though, as you've been
working on this project, how have you personally seen your
concept of what racial justice social justice in some of
these issues like housing and other things. What does that
(52:15):
look like for you? How has this work impacted you
personally in your thoughts on those things. Yes, so thank
you for the question. One specific example I can give
is when I expanded the project to include map twins
from the western side of the city, which is very
(52:35):
different from the north and south side. So Chicago is
like a triangle, you know, like North South and then
it extends here and then there's a western part, and
so on that western part, it's still the North South
racial divide, but it's just ten minutes apart as opposed
to our apart. And so when I interviewed those map twins,
(52:56):
they talked about gentrification, which wasn't something that was brought
up North South maps wins because that really has happened
from white to black communities. Traditionally in Chicago, Latino neighborhoods
get gentrified and because of that gentrification, they move into
neighborhoods where they can afford, which is generally black neighborhoods.
(53:19):
So the maps win started talking about gentrification, and it's
always people against the gentrifiers. And so I've used that
conversation to help people understand how we have to redirect
our anger, and we have to redirect it to our
(53:40):
elected officials and the people who create the housing policies
that determine low income, high income neighborhoods, because at the
end of the day. The white people who are viewed
as gentrifiers to whatever neighborhoods, honestly, they're viewed as dollar
(54:02):
signs by the developers incorporations, and they can't really help that.
Wherever they move for affordability, businesses just follow them, like
everything they ever want just follows them. So I just
told people, you know that if we're gonna continue having
(54:22):
this conversation about gentrification, we cannot be blaming you know.
Of course, once gentrification happens, the people who are new
to the community should pay attention to the community that
existed there before. But the issue does not start with
people who move into a neighborhood and then eventually the
neighborhood changes not as a result of what they said
(54:45):
they want, but because of what follows them, which is resources,
which is money and development. And so the only way
we can tackle that is becoming unified and addressing that
saying no, it's not fair that neighborhoods where young white
professionals move because they want to live someplace too that
they can afford, that the neighborhood starts to change because
(55:08):
of developers and corporations who view them also as dollar
signs and so that is one way that we've been
kind of having that conversation in Chicago that kind of
addresses the class part of it, because at the end
of the day, people move to neighborhoods that they feel
(55:28):
like they can afford. How they determine the criteria for
the neighborhood deals. That's a lot of other stuff, but
remembering that commonality that people live where they can afford,
and we have to question what goes into making a
neighborhood affordable or not. So that's just very general conceptual answer,
(55:51):
but you know, that's just part of the conversation that
has to happen for people to even think differently about
the income. Yeah, thank you for an excellent question Ned
from Madison, Wisconsin and uh in an excellent answer to
Nika Johnson from Chicago. I just want to say what
(56:13):
an incredible pleasure this has been. I knew from seeing
the project from the outside this was something special. We
had a brief call with Tanika a few weeks ago.
It was clear this was special, and I think what's
remarkable is some of what we've already heard that Tanika,
your medium is also the people that you've in beauty
level of trust in us to go through this process
(56:35):
and not try to fix everything like the mess is okay,
and it's a part of the process, and it ties
back to so much of what we believe in this
show that relationship building is key to citizening, and so
you've demonstrated a really beautiful, literally artistic way to do
that that adds a third dimension to the reports of
what our communities are like and gives us a bit
(56:57):
more language and imagination to create the communities that we
actually want to live in. All that is tremendous and remarkable,
and uh, thank you, thank you, thank you. We're gonna
find that fold We are beyond grateful to Tonica Johnson
(57:18):
for joining us. You can follow Tonica J on Instagram
t O n I K A J and visit Folded
map project dot com. Find this episode, a full transcript,
show notes and more at how do Citizen dot com,
and please show you a support for the show in
(57:38):
the form of a review and or a rating. Makes
a big difference with these algorithmic overloaders, y'all. But now
for the fun part this episode's actions. We start off
with our internal actions. There's three of them. The first
pretty light and they get a little heavier from there.
I want you to listen to another podcast, this American Life,
(58:01):
not the whole series that's like thousands of hours, two
episodes that sit under the title House Rules. These two
episodes examined segregation in the United States in a beautiful way.
You can find the link in our show notes on
the website of the Digital Scholarship Lab for the University
of Richmond in Virginia. You can explore this interactive map
(58:24):
that lets you see where segregation got planted in the
United States in so many ways by looking at the
loan rating codes from the Home Owners Loan Corporation around
the time of the New Deal. Find your city and
look at that history and think about is it's still
reflected today. The third internal action has a lot of
(58:47):
detail I want you to find at how to citizen
dot com, but I lay it on your pretty simply
like this. We think we came up with a way
for you to explore a folded map like experience for
theo who don't live in Chicago right without having to
move to the city of Chicago, which is a great place.
But that's a big commitment for a podcast where you
are try this Instead of that first step, reflect on
(59:11):
your neighborhood and write down the things you love, the
things you depend on, the specific places that you frequent,
the library, the grocery stores you go to, the cultural
institutions you value, the news sources you trust at a
very very local level. Then I want you to think
about the neighborhood you don't go to. Think about that
(59:33):
part of town that you think of as too dangerous
or too bad to visit, or maybe it's too wealthy
and too unwelcoming to visit. Either way, there's a part
of your town or your region that you do not frequent.
I want you to picture this place, find it, name it,
and then I want you to explore it using the
(59:55):
same lens you used to think about your neighborhood. Find
a restaurant there that serves the food you love in
order to take out or delivery. Find a library there
and compare its programming to the one offered by your
own library. We're in COVID time, so I'm not going
to encourage you to physically explore a bunch of neighborhoods
(01:00:16):
and indoor spaces, but find artists and cultural institutions and
local news sources in the part of town you never
go to and tune into that. Our goal is to
help you become a better citizen of your own neighborhood
and your greater city and regional area, not just your neighborhood.
(01:00:40):
On the external front. For those who live in Chicago,
you better sign up at that folded map project dot com.
Do it now. Tonica has finished the action kit and
it is available for you, so please check that out.
And whether you live there or not, if you know
an educator, share this project with them. In particular. Folded
(01:01:01):
map Project dot com slash video has resources designs specifically
for educators. So download the action kit and try to
do it. Try to do it, and if you take
any of these actions as always, share them with us
by sending an email to action at how to citizen
dot com. Put the word bridges in the subject line.
(01:01:23):
That'll help us sort this out and brag online about
your citizen in using the hashtag how to citizen. You
can also send us general feedback or ideas to comments
at how to citizen dot com and you can text
me two oh to eight nine four eight eight four
four drop the word citizen in there, so I know
how you found me and I'll give you extra special
(01:01:45):
attention and alert. How does Citizen with barrettun Days production
of I Heart Radio podcast Executive produced by Miles Gray,
Nick Stump, Elizabeth Stewart, and barrettune Day Thursty, Produced by
Joel Smith, Edited by Justin Smith. Powered by You
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.