June 5, 2024 • 53 mins
If you have kids or been around kids, you might have noticed that they’re not the best at solving their own problems. It’s a continual process of teaching them to advocate for themselves and that there’s more to it than just stating their problem. So for instance “I’m thirsty” might be a constant refrain and while it’s great to recognize the issue at hand, the goal is to turn that into a request: “Can I have some orange juice?” OK, now we’re getting somewhere! Now she’s taken a proactive step in solving her own problem. This is an important lesson to learn because as we’ll discuss today it’s basically up to us to resolve our own financial conflicts once we’re launched into the real world. We need to be our own advocates in every area of life, but certainly when it comes to our money! Joining us today is Matt Schulz who is the chief credit analyst at LendingTree, and he is also the author of the new book, “Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More” which is essentially a money manual that teaches readers the important questions we need to ask. So whether you naturally speak up for yourself, or would rather disappear back into the bushes, be sure and listen to this episode centering around individual empowerment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
and today we're talking about asking the right questions so
you can save more money with Matt Schultz. Yeah, So lately,
(00:28):
I've been working with my kids.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
To teach them to advocate for themselves, and specifically, what
I've been working on is teaching them that there is
more to that than just stating a problem. So, for instance,
one of our kids, she'll say like, I'm thirsty, which okay,
it is great to recognize the issue at hand, but
to make a request, for instance, can I have some
OJ Now? We are getting somewhere right now, she has
(00:51):
taken a proactive step in solving her own problem.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Where the fridges.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
But this is an important lesson to learn because, as
we'll just us today, it's basically up to us to
resolve our own financial conflicts and problems. No one is
out there who's going to save us. And joining us
today is Matt Schultz, who is the chief credit analyst
at lending Tree. He's also the author of the new
book Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More, which is essentially
a money manual that teaches readers the important questions that
(01:20):
we all need to ask He includes decision trees. He
includes a whole lot of practical tools, even scripts that
will help us to do just what the title says. So, Matt,
we're excited to talk with you about your book. Thank
you for joining us today on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Of course. Yeah, Matt, We're looking forward to this. First question, though,
we ask everybody who comes on the show, is what's
your craft beer equivalent? Which means what do you spend
potentially abnormally amount of money on while you're still doing
the right thing, you're saving and investing wisely for your future.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm kind of nerdy about obstacle course racing, Okay, So
I'm one of those guys who does. I've done a
half dozen I think Spartan races and a couple of
other couple of other races kind of like that. So
I'm the guy who pays money to crawl through mud,
(02:14):
under bug wire and carry giant buckets uphills and stuff
for some reason. But I love it, and it's a
lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Electric shock therapy that you've participated in, And do they
have like the live wires hanging out or is that
maybe something that they decided to rule.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Out because of the liability.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Perhaps no electric shock, no no beatings or anything like that,
but still it's it's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Nice, couldn't you have just joined the Marines and maybe
had a similar experience but gotten paid for it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh? Man, I have some folks in my family who
would have been very very happy if I had done that,
But not in the cards for me.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, maybe a tough mutter or a Spartan races in
the cards for us. Joel Matt Joel and I are
both signed up to run the Peach Tree, which is
a ten k, which is obviously nothing compared to it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It is that to mention it that you're.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Doing, but pretty old for you in particular. Man, this
is like you're I don't know. It's the first more
serious race for you, so I think it'll It will
be a ton of fun. It's good to physically challenge yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It rains a lot. Hey, it might involve mud. We'll see,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And and for me it helps because I'm somebody who
like I, I like to stay active and all that,
but I also can get lazy if I don't have
goals that I'm pushing towards and and you learn pretty
quick when you're doing a spartan race or a tough
mutter that if you haven't prepared it all, it's gonna
(03:36):
it's gonna be a long day. And so knowing that
I have one of those a few months out or whatever,
it can be really motivating.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I get that caused you to get after it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Matt. Let's uh, let's talk about your book, because it
starts with a simple premise, which is that we have
more control over over our finances than we think. But
that being said, we've all experienced inflation, can't control that
rapidly rising home prices. We're talking about out of control
government spending as well. There's nothing that we can do
about any of those. But you still say that there's
(04:09):
more to our personal finances than what is happening outside
of us. Can you kind of explain the premise and
make an argument for that.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah. Absolutely, It's something that I've said over and over
again for years at lending Tree and in previous jobs.
And basically, the idea is that you have way more money,
way more power over your money than you realize. And
that's true whether you're talking about asking for a lower
(04:37):
interest rate on a credit card, lowering your medical bill,
talking to your elderly parents about money, or splitting the
bill at a group dinner without getting stuck paid two
thirds of it. And it's just something that you need
to be aware of and that you need to be
willing to take some action and be a little bit vulnerable,
(05:00):
and especially when it comes to businesses. Really the idea
behind it all is the power comes from the idea
of business is viewing you in terms of your lifetime value,
so meaning that if the longer you stick around as
a customer, the more money a business is going to
(05:21):
make off of you. Thus it is worth their money
to keep you around and do things it keep you happy.
So if they waive a forty dollars credit card late
fee and it keeps you happy and has you spending
on that card for years and years to come, it's
a complete no brainer for them. And same thing with
(05:43):
like logo t shirts at gyms and that sort of stuff.
So once you kind of once you kind of understand
that idea, it can change your mindset to where you
feel like you're coming at it from a position of
power rather than kind of bended me.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Gotcha, So you're kind of that that's why they're willing
to offer us discounts. I guess if you're specifically talking
about a retailer, it's because, hey, they know they might
take it on the chin this one time, but it's
in order to keep you happy, to keep you coming back,
because they know they've got a bunch of future sales
lined up with you if they can keep you happy.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Now. Yeah, that's really what it gets down to in
a lot of ways, And in my job at lending Tree,
I talk about it a lot with specifically with banks
in particular, because banks want you to stick around because,
for one, if even if you have a credit card
and you spend on it but you never carry a
(06:41):
balance and never pay any interest, banks still make money
off of you spending. And they also know that they
can upsell to you. If you have a credit card
there maybe they can get you a personal loan or
an auto loan or something down the line. Or when
you have kids, maybe maybe you make that kid an
(07:04):
authorized user on a card, or there's a million different
ways that it can happen. And it really is all
about understanding that you are valuable and you matter, so
you can kind of flex a little bit of that
power and use it to use it to help you
(07:24):
save a little money.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, let's talk about the problem of like more rays, perhaps, Matt,
because we talk about asking for a discount pretty regularly
on the show, but it's a very underrated thing to do.
Why is it that you think some of you folks
just fail to attempt asking for a discount.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, there's a million reasons, but two of the biggest
are simply that they just don't know that you can
do it. So awareness, yeah, yeah, and then also just
the fact that it's scary, and like, I'm somebody who
talks on camera and on podcasts for for a living,
and I don't like raising my hand in a group
(08:03):
full of people or speaking up or advocating for myself.
I'm not that great at it. And so the average person,
it's it's a nerve racking thing. And even when you
may know that you have a really good chance to
get your way, it's still nerve wracking putting yourself out
(08:24):
there and risking rejection and risking being told no. So
it's it takes a lot for people to do it.
And I talk about in the book, it's like, we
don't shame people for not doing these things. We try
and help them feel more comfortable and feel emboldened to
(08:44):
take those steps because it can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I'm the kind of guy who if I order a
stake medium and it comes like even if it's like
well done, I have a hard time sending it back.
It just feels like disrespectful, right, and I do. Yeah.
I think that's like the maybe feeling some people get
too sometimes w comes to asking for a discount, is
they're like, I don't want to I don't want to
feel like I'm disrespecting the business owner. Can you talk
about the difference between maybe asking a big corporation for
(09:08):
a discount versus pestering a small business owner, Like, is
there a different approach that people need to take, Like
if I'm if I'm talking to Walmart or Amazon, should
I be doing something differently than I'm doing with like
somebody who owns a boutique shop down the street.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Short answer is yes, And you may even there are
people who I've spoke with spoke with one hundred plus
people for the book, and there are plenty of people
who I talked to who said, I don't even negotiate
with small businesses because I understand the hustle and I
understand how tight the margins are. And there's other things
(09:46):
like that for you know, artists or you know things
like that, where you're just like, I'm going to respect
that person and honor the work that they've put in
by not negotiating with them, whereas with Amazon and Chase
in places like that, going at it like a like
(10:07):
a shark and a feeding frenzy. So so, but there
is a difference, for sure, and especially when you're talking
about a small business, it really is about kind of
being as close to the decision maker as you possibly
can when you are when you're doing the negotiating. So
(10:29):
like that's why things like a small boutique clothing store
where one of the people in the store might be
the owner, or in an independent pharmacy places like that,
the closer you can get to talking to the owner
or the manager or somebody who is in a position
of decision making, the easier it is.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
But doesn't that also make it harder to actually ask
for the discout because like it's I guess it's easier
for me to reach out to or say something to
a company that's larger where there's a manager, but something
about talking to an owner of a smaller business like
you said, like for instance, of a boutique. That's where
things start to get a little bit dicey, because I
know that that is the person that controls, you know,
(11:14):
the outcome of what it is that I'm requesting. But
also that's the most honestly difficult request to make of
the actual owner who's poured their sweat and tears, who's
put their own personal dreams on hold in order to
provide for their family in this way, Like, how do
you kind of square how do you sort of write
the two goals here that you're trying to see to fruition.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, I think I think some of it is just
being respectful, and you know, there's a difference between going
in and asking for a little bit of a discount
and asking for like fifty percent off. There are also
things that you can do to kind of make it
a little bit of a win win for a small
(11:55):
business where you can say, like I mean, we've all
been to you know, restaurants and that sort of thing
where somebody's just getting started and they ask you to
leave a review and Yelp or wherever else the case
might be. But you can do things like that where
(12:15):
helping them build some word of mouth by talking about
it through social media, that sort of thing. Those sorts
of things are things that you can do that can
make everybody happy and you're getting a little bit of
a discount and you're helping this small struggling business spread
the word.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So you mentioned that you talk to a bunch of people.
You interviewed a bunch of folks about how they're able
to be kind of successful when it comes to asking
the right questions in order to get a discount. Having
those conversations, what were some of the most common factors
for success that you found. What approach and tactics were
they taking that seemed like they worked the best.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well of the One of the best things that you
can do, and one of the things people talked about
is role playing. So if you're going to ask for
a lower interest rate on a credit card, get with
a trusted friend or relative and literally kind of practice
(13:16):
what that conversation might sound like. You know, you do
it a few times where the first time everything goes
perfectly smoothly. The second time maybe you, maybe you have
your friend throw a little bit of a weird question
at you or push you back a little bit, and
then the third time let the person really hammer you
and make it difficult on you. And you know it's
(13:39):
it's the idea that you know, coaches talk about making
the practice more difficult than the game, and there's there's
something to be said for taking the time to practice.
You obviously can't predict everything that somebody is going to
throw your way, but even just having that little dry
(13:59):
run of that conversation can help you feel a little
bit more confident.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, Okay, talk about the medium of like the form
of communication that you're using when you are, say, asking
for a discount, Because obviously, at least for me, the
ability to hop on like with an online chat and
be like, hey, mess my payment, how about we waive
that late fee? Never done that before, promise I'll never
do it again. That's really easy for me to do.
(14:27):
But simultaneously, I got to think that oftentimes those less
personal forms of communication might be less impactful.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Can you talk about that for a second for sure?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, And there are definitely cases where you can just
go in through a chatbot or stuff like that. If
it's a really straightforward thing that probably a million people
ask for, that you might be able to make it work.
But one of the kind of fundamental underpinnings of the
book is the importance of kind of making that connection
(14:59):
and have that rapport with that person who you're talking to.
And the best way to do that is either face
to face or over the phone, which is a completely
understand as a decidedly old school way of doing things,
and companies seem like they're making it more and more
(15:21):
difficult by the day to actually connect with anybody over
the phone. But if you can do that, and you
can speak with that person and tell them your story,
and even just if it's like a little bit of
chit chat or whatever the case might be with that person,
having that connection with that real person can make a difference,
(15:43):
because I mean, all you have to do is go
on social media for three seconds to see that. People
often feel way more emboldened when they are just writing
out into nothingness, as it put, and are willing to
say things that they would never say to somebody's face
or over the phone. So that's it's an old school
(16:07):
concept and I totally get that. But part of this
book is about the power of the phone call and
the power of the face to face conversation.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
All right, how important and how powerful is it to
be able to walk away completely if you don't get
the price or the terms you want. And sometimes I
think we're negotiating or we're haggling for something, even though
it's not necessarily a common feature in American life, whereas
it is in other cultures. We might haggle for something
and then realize that we could have just easily gotten
(16:37):
it cheap or somewhere else. So maybe we're haggling and
wasting our time I guess in haggling. So yeah, talk
to me about like searching for prices or you know,
independently before you start to negotiate, or maybe like knowing
the market before you start that negotiation process. And then, yeah,
how powerful can it be just to walk away?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Enormously powerful? I mean you have to understand what the
risks are of walking away, and they can be very
different from one thing to another. But you always think
about being in a car dealership and the car dealer
says it's my final offer, and then you walk away
and the person comes chasing after you out the door
(17:18):
going wait, wait, no, we have one other thing. And
that doesn't just happen in car dealerships. It happens all
over the place. And if you are willing to walk away,
then it can help you. And I mean that's even
true where if you if you call your cable company
(17:42):
or your cell phone provider or places like that and
you cancel or you bring up canceling, they may follow
up with an email saying we want you back, that
sort of thing. So there is a lot of power
because again, these companies know that when you are their customer,
(18:03):
they make money off of you and they want you
to stick around. So that's a lot of where your
power comes from.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, so when you're talking about, like speak region a company,
Let's say it's your celf phone provider. Let's say it's
your internet provider. Whoever, I've always heard the customer retention department, like,
those are the people that you get to. Those are
the people who have a little more leeway. You get
the regular person in the general customer service department, and
they might shut you down. But then maybe you say,
all right, I'm thinking about canceling, and that's what they'll
(18:32):
transfer you to the customer retention department. How do you
know you're at the right place, You're speaking of the
right people who then have the power to do something
because you might have asked, you might have tried to negotiate,
and you're just talking to the wrong person, and so
you end up canceling when you could have gotten a
better deal if you had been talking to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, who you talk to really matters, And yes, the
customer retention department or some other terminology along those lines
is a good thing to ask for, or if you
feel like you're getting some if you're not getting anywhere.
And that's another thing that can make people feel better
about making these calls is that companies expect them and
(19:12):
they train their employees to handle them. And chances are,
when you're making that call, you're probably not bringing anything
anybody hasn't thrown at that person ten times before. So
sure you're not going out of bounds, you're not overstepping
your bounds or whatever. People companies expect negotiation, expect pushback,
(19:38):
at least to some degree, and so it's important that
people understand.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
That nice awesome so far.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Mask given some anecdotes as to where it is that
we can ask the right questions. But after the break,
we're going to dive into some specific industries where we
spend a lot of money. There's a lot of money
that we're hemorrhaging that we want to be able to
inform and encourage listeners to hang on to get to
all of that and more. Right after the break.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Or we're back from the break, we're still talking with
Matt Schultz. We're talking about asking the right questions so
you can save more money, and how you have more
control than you think over what you pay for things. Matt,
let's get into some the specific areas and the specific
questions to ask and the specific things to push back on.
In the book, you start off by talking about how
to negotiate credit and debt terms. And you say that
(20:33):
credit card interest rates, for example, obviously they've been rising
quickly for somebody out there with like ten thousand bucks
in credit card debt, that rapid rise and interest rates
that can be costly. But and you mentioned this actually
just a minute ago, but that interest rates on credit
card debt are negotiable. That's not something people usually think
to negotiate. They think of that as the thing the
terms that the bank sets, and then hey, I'm just
(20:55):
getting bludgeoned over the head with it. How do you
actually go about negotiating that?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You definitely can, And frankly, that idea of negotiating credit
card interest rates was the impetus behind the book because
in my job at lending Tree, I've talked about the
fact that's seventy six percent or roughly around their percent
of folks who ask for a lower interest rate on
(21:21):
their credit card get one. And I can't tell you
how many interviews I've done over the years where people
are like, oh my god, really, I had no idea.
Why don't people talk about that more? And after so
much time of getting that type of reaction, I was like, Okay,
I've got something here I need to go. I dive
(21:41):
a little bit deeper in and what you need to
do to get that lower rate is, first of all,
have a basic idea of what type of credit you have,
because if you have a five fifty credit score and
you ask for the lower lowest interest rate available, you're
not going to get it. So it can at least
(22:02):
help you kind of frame things that way, and then
from there you go about looking for other offers that
you might be qualified for, whether it's from a site
like lending Tree, or from the bank that you have
your checking and savings accounts with, or something that came
in your snail mail or whatever. And then you look
(22:24):
at that and you say, well, okay, I'm going to
call my bank and say I've had your card for
a couple of years, I've never missed a payment. I
like the benefits of it, But I have a twenty
seven percent interest rate and I've just been offered a
card with a twenty one percent interest rate? Is there
anything that you can do to match that? And your
(22:48):
bank's absolutely going to listen to you, And the chances
that they will match or at least kind of get
you in the ballpark of that matched number is way
higher than people realize.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So basically you're arming yourself with information, which so I mean,
that's that's key to obviously any negotiation.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
But the kid just come on and be like, I'd
like zero percent for the next eighteen months, no reason, I.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Just want it. Yeah, I mean I guess you could
do that, but yeah, I feel like having the empirical
data on your side is incredibly helpful. But if you
I mean, let's say you do make that call, you
even talk through one of the scripts that you offer
there in the book, Matt, but then you're told no,
does it come down to you having you know, it
sounds kind of funny to say it in this in
(23:33):
these terms, but to have the courage to just bounce
and to move on to one of those other credit cards,
obviously with a plan to actually eliminate your your debt.
But does it come down to your willingness to actually
be able to walk?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
It could, But as funny as this may sound, it
may just come down to you talking to the wrong
person on the wrong day.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So some again, is what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even if it's even if it's
a couple hours later, because in these in these big
customer service centers that these giant megabanks have, when you
call back, you're probably not going to get the same person.
And if you get somebody who has been yelled at
ten times that day, they may not feel that great
(24:18):
about helping you out. But if you call back a
couple hours later, and it may even be worth calling
multiple times to see and just giving it a shot.
And if it's ultimately you keep striking out, then maybe
you threaten to move on. But with something like a
credit card, when you're threatening to move on, you have
(24:42):
to understand the implications of canceling that credit card when
it comes to your credit score and things like that,
because that's that's not a that's not an insignificant thing,
So it's something you need to know about before you
actually canceled that card.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
So maybe the most shocking stat in your book was
you found that ninety three percent of folks who asked
for an annual fee on a credit card to be
waived were successful when they asked. And it's interesting because
the best credit cards come with annual fees, right, But
oftentimes people are like, I don't want to pay the
ninety five or five hundred and ninety five dollars for
the annual fee, but I would love those perks to
(25:22):
come alongside it. I guess like even myself, I would
probably reconsider some of those credit cards that I haven't
signed up for that I have higher annual fees if
I knew I didn't have to pay it. So yeah,
why are the credit card companies often willing to forgive
that annual fee? And how should you go about asking
to get that waved.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
The big reason, well one of the big reasons why
they're willing to wave it oftentimes is that folks who
pay annual fees on credit cards tend to spend more
on credit cards, and credit card companies make a ton
of money off of you when you spend on that card,
regardless of whether you carry a balance or pay them
(26:00):
any interest or not. So that's part of why they're
willing to waive that fee. And that ninety three percent
success rate number is bonkers, and part of that is
that it's like sixty percent got it waived in full
and about thirty percent or so got it reduced, and
(26:23):
even so that's a significant thing. But if you have
one of those super high end cards where it's five
hundred and fifty six hundred dollars annual fee, you're probably
not going to get that waived unless you are a
very special client. But if you have a eighty nine
(26:44):
ninety five dollars annual fee, it certainly does not hurt
to make that phone call and ask them to waive
that annual fee. It probably won't be done permanently, and
it may be something that you have to revisit every year.
But eighty nine ninety five hundred bucks, that's real money.
It's worth making that phone call.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, So maybe not the Amex Platinum, but perhaps the
Amex Lucash preferred.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, which is yes exactly is that we love.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Let's talk about the healthcare system, Matt, because you you've
written about this in your book as well. We've done
entire episodes on just how broken it is. But can
you navigate us through those nefarious waters, like how do
we know what we need to pay and when it
is that we should be pushing back on some of
the bills that we're receiving.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Well, to me, this was the most fascinating part of
the book and honestly the most challenging, because it's such
a complex topic and the dollar amounts in it are
just so crazy and so significant, and these bills wreck
people's financial lives, and so it was it's just so important.
(27:58):
And the thing that people told me over and over
again was never pay that first bill. And the first
medical bill is more or less a work of fiction,
which is a wild thing to think about, but I've
heard it over and over from people who spend their
lives in this space. And the first thing that you
(28:21):
should do. Go back to them and request an itemized
bill with CPT codes on it. And CPT codes are
to medical bills what bar codes are to retail they're
kind of the language, the standardized language used in the
(28:41):
medical space to describe what procedure, what service was done.
And until you know what code is on that bill,
you don't know exactly specifically what you are being charged for.
And that's where a lot of mistakes happen, whether inadvertently
(29:01):
or maliciously, and the difference between one code and another
can be really, really significant. So it's worth your time.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So you've got those codes in hand, and you've got
the itemized bill, and then how do you know which
ones to who to contact and in the medical sphere,
because that's another one like who are you calling and
what are you asking?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Once you've gotten that bill, you can literally google CPT
codes and search for those, and it's the stuff is
available online where you can find And then you go
back to the medical provider and you talk to them about, well,
(29:44):
this says that this particular service was done, but no,
I actually had this instead, or if the bill is
correct and it seems high, or if you want to
negotiate it. You can literally ask them, you know, about
(30:04):
either a no interest payment plan that they would have
available as opposed to using the medical credit card that
they would offer you, or you can talk to them
about negotiating and saying I'm on a tight budget, this
is what I can afford to pay. Can you work
(30:24):
with me? And that's that's a place to start.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
All right. And one other thing too is lots of
times on a lot of hospital websites there is a
page for financial assistance, and a lot of people don't
they're starting to negotiate something that maybe they qualify for
full forgiveness for that bill anyway, or for a good
portion of forgiveness just by going to the back end
of the website and looking at the details that the
hospital's already published about income limits, family size and what
(30:49):
they're willing to forgive.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Right, yeah, yeah, no question. There's there's a lot that
can be done, and it's it's probably not going to
be the first thing that's offered to you. A lot
of times, what might be offered to you is a
medical credit card, which would be roughly akin to a
retail credit card that you would be offered at Macy's
(31:11):
or Best Buy or something like that, and that the
medical provider will be making money off of.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So they'd love for you to do that instead.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Absolutely, And if you're offered that, just you can say,
you know, tell me about no interest payment plan that
you would have or other things that I might qualify for,
like you were saying, based on my income and other
aspects of things. So it's it's it's worth asking those questions.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Nice, all right, Matt. Let's tackle housing next, because we've
always talked about how there are different ways to negotiate
your rent, right, Like, maybe that's you taking over the
long care, maybe signing a longer lease, bigger deposit, perhaps
to make yourself a more attractive renter. But you say
you can actually request a lower interest rate on your mortgage.
Can you explain how that actually works?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, Yeah, there's a few things that you can do.
For one, you need to shop around for various offers
because there are major differences among different lenders in terms
of interest rates and in terms of fees and all
those sorts of things. So that is really really significant
(32:29):
and certainly a place to start, not just in mortgages,
but with cars and other things like that, so shopping
around is certainly a significant thing, but also knowing what
your options are in terms of various types of mortgages
or options that you may have to lower that interest rate,
(32:52):
things like points where you are paying a little more
upfront to lower your interest rate, or getting a different
getting looking at a fifteen year mortgage instead of a
thirty year mortgage, or even an adjustable rate mortgage. These
are all different things that you can look at that
(33:13):
can change the interest rate that you would get from
from that lender. There are definitely ups and downs and
pros and cons and things that you need to understand
before you take the plunge into these things. They're not
things to be done lightly, but it is important to
(33:35):
understand that there are options, and again you don't have
to take the first thing that somebody throws at you,
especially with something as expensive as buying a house.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well related to housing as well, you talk about negotiating
realtor commissions, which is this is like a to be
decided sort of a question because I feel like we're
still in a weird spot after the NAR ruling. But
new question, jos should folks start to navigate that potentially
touchy subject right now, especially, I'm just thinking about realtor
friends who I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Know personally personally, But yeah, for folks out there who.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Are looking to purchase at home, how do they go
about starting to have some of those discussions.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, and this is one of those where, like you
were saying, the world kind of shifted on its axis
since I finished writing the book, and I touch on
it a little bit in the section about reducing your
real estate agent's commission, where it's like, this is coming
and we don't necessarily know exactly how this is all
(34:39):
going to look in a year or five years or whatever,
but we know that stuff has changed a lot. And again,
part of it is just again shopping around and talking
to multiple agents and seeing who is willing to work
for what and who is willing to be flexible with
(35:05):
you in the with these commissions. And one of the
things that I thought was interesting when I was interviewing
people about it is that a realtor friend of mine,
who obviously is a little biased as a realtor, but
she was like, well, you need to be a little
(35:27):
cautious because somebody who is too willing to negotiate their
commission as a real estate agent may be a little
bit may may not be the greatest negotiator for you
negotiating the house, and there's a lot to lose there,
(35:47):
so it may be a little bit of a be
careful what you wish for sort of thing. But again
it's one of those where it's certainly worth asking.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
We've got more questions to get to with you, Matt,
including we were talking about negotiating the price in the
terms of a car. That's one of those things where
you're expected to negotiate where some of these other places
you're necessarily expecting to negotiate. We'll talk about that and more.
We'll get to those questions right after this.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
When we are fact from the break talking with Matt
Schultz about asking questions and Joel mentioned the car, but
maybe before we get to that, Matt, I wanted to
ask you about what it looks like to negotiate with
an employer or a potential employer. You dedicate a whole
chapter to talking about that, are we talking about I mean,
most of the time we're looking at not just your salary,
(36:43):
but you're looking at some of those additional benefits as well.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Right, oh yeah, yeah, and especially now since we've come
out of the pandemic and how maybe the most important
benefit of all is where you work remote versus hybrid,
versus one whatever. That's such an important thing to talk about,
(37:06):
and so it's so important when you're going into these
negotiations to understand not only what you want but also
kind of what is standard in the market. And one
of the great things that has emerged in the last
decade or so is just greater transparency when it comes
(37:31):
to salaries and all other types of benefits. So you
can talk to your coworkers sometimes, although that can be
a little dicey. You can talk to friends, colleagues, relatives
and talk to them about what they're seeing and what
(37:52):
is out there and what kind of the trends are,
along with doing kind of online research to make sure
that you are getting what you should get in these negotiations.
And it's not just about salary, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Let's say you feel a little scorned after that. You're like,
I'm making an eighty and my friend just told me
they're making one ten. They haven't been here as long
as me, and like it's easy to take that information
and be like, I don't know, negotiate poorly with it
because you're hurt. How would you suggest someone take that
information and then go back to their employer and ask
for more money.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Well, I think that I think that some of it
is just about presenting it as you having done your homework,
and you seeing what your position is worth and what
is traditionally what is traditionally paid and offered to somebody
(38:50):
in your role, and the more you can take yourself
out of it, like you said, as difficult as that
can be, as much as you can take yourself out
of it and make the kind of the data driven
case that that you are worth this amount of money,
(39:14):
the better off you'll be. And maybe that looks like
running through what you have provided for the company and
what you have accomplished in those sorts of things, along
with data showing what somebody with your title, with your
experience with your role is making. Because I do know
(39:39):
that companies are being more sensitive now to kind of
level setting their employee salaries as it relates to what
is in the market out there, and so as scary
as it might be to come into that conversation, I
(40:01):
don't think that you should expect that your company it
would be something that your company would never.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Have thought of so, okay, let's talk about buying a
car or I was gonna say a new car, but
most likely what we want to recommend for folks to
do is buy a used car, a new to you car.
And so a two part question, Matt, what kind of
information should folks go into that negotiation with as they're
talking to somebody who they're looking to buy a car from.
What kind of information.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Should they have?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
And then what kind of tactics should they use when
it comes to having that conversation When it comes to
having that negotiation.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, really, really, the best thing that you can do,
assuming you're not just paying cash for that car, is
to come in to that to that dealership pre approved
for a loan from a credit union or some other
some other lender source. Because a the dealership almost never
(40:59):
has the best rate and financing and be it helps
you frame the conversation where you don't have to worry
about about the car dealer holding that over your head.
It just changes the tone of things a little bit.
(41:20):
So that is really really important. And again, going into
that conversation having an idea of what you are looking for,
what you're willing to pay, and kind of sticking to
(41:40):
your guns and recognizing your value as a customer is
a really really significant thing. So and then one of
the other important things is understanding the value of timing
to a degree. And we see this at you know,
the end of the year, where a dealer is trying
(42:04):
to move inventory, but that also happens at the end
of the quarter and at the end of the month
and times like that. So it is important for people
to understand that it isn't necessarily always about what you
ask or who you ask. It can also be about
(42:24):
when you ask too, So all that stuff matters.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. One of the things I
love about your book too, is that it's so DIY focused.
It's like, hey, you can do these things. Hey, here's
the scripts, Hey here's the tools, and here's the teaching.
So that basically you should go out there and do
it on your own, which I think is awesome. I
think for the most part that's one hundred percent true.
When might you need the help of a professional or
be better served hiring someone to negotiate on your behalf.
(42:48):
I'm thinking about something like property taxes in the states,
where your property taxes can change like the wind and
shift up dramatically a year overy year. You can challenge
those yourself. You could also hire a pro to do
it on your behalf. Buying a car, right, that's something
people do every seven, eight years, ten years maybe, And
so maybe they feel like, do I have to learn
(43:08):
this whole rigamarole and go out there and challenge challenge
the dealership to try to get the best deal, or
should I just pay a service to help me do this?
Maybe they'll come out with a better outcome anyway, your
credit card debt amount like seeking a nonprofit credit or
debt counselor maybe they can be more effective than I
can be on my own. I don't know. I'm curious
to hear your take on when maybe professional help would
(43:30):
be best.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
It really is kind of on a case by case thing,
because for some people it's just a matter of they
don't have the time. If you've got a bunch of
little kids and a busy job and you really need
the help and you've got maybe you don't have really
a lot of time or money, but you actually might
(43:51):
have a little bit more money than time, then you
should absolutely use that money to buy yourself some time.
So that can that can certainly be one, and you
mentioned the nonprofit credit counselor side of things. Those folks
are enormously helpful, and that is the kind of thing
(44:13):
where where they can offer you more than just negotiating
your card. They can offer you advice on budgeting and
other kind of blocking and tackling sort of stuff in
personal finance. So if you are somebody who feels like
you need you just need somebody to guide you through
(44:37):
these things, as opposed to you just needing to accomplish
one or two things, then something like a credit counselor
can be a really really big.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Help nice okay, Matt, Last, but not least, What is
it that made you include the scorecard at the end
of your book. Why do you think it's important for
folks to track those different asks as well as the
outcomes that they received.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Well, I wanted to leave that there because I wanted
people to basically celebrate their wins. And if you use
this book over time and you can see, oh, my goodness,
you know I've saved myself a couple of hundred dollars,
(45:23):
or I made that I got a five thousand dollars raise,
or whatever the number might be. And you see that
you write it down and it's kind of in front
of your face. That sort of thing can be really
motivating and really empowering. It's it's the whole idea of
the snowball thing, right where you kind of start small
(45:44):
and and once you get that first win, big or little,
that sort of thing can be really addictive and can
and can really help you kind of keep moving forward.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, we usually talk about addiction negatively. That's a good
kind of day. I'm maintaining that momentum.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, it makes me think about the sort of example
I gave at the beginning of like my kids solving
some of their own problems, and yeah, that's empowerment and
that equips them to be able to continue to solve
their own problems. And essentially it sounds like that's kind
of what you're doing there with the scorecard. But Matt,
where can folks learn more about you and what you're
up to, and specifically where it is that they can
(46:22):
learn more about your book.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, you can learn more about me and my book
at my website Matt Schultz dot com. It's s c
h U l Z. And if you sign up for
my newsletter there, I have a you get three free
scripts from the book that can kind of give you
a little bit of a taste for for what the
(46:44):
book is about. And you can buy the book anywhere
that you buy books online and it's available everywhere, and
you can also follow me on socials at buy Matt Schultz.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
That's great, Matt, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
Love the book. And yeah, thanks so much again for
coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
This was fun, all right, nice little conversation with Matt
Schultz about getting the discounts.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
That we deserve. Joel, but you're entitled to. Oh I
almost got into a title like that's not true.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
But it's less about entitlement and it's more about understanding
what you're worth. And so I'm gonna go ahead and
jump to my big takeaway because we kind of segueing
into it, which was to understand your lifetime value as
a customer. It's it's kind of like the overarching principle
I think, and he mentioned it early on. We oftentimes
look at things in a very like in snapshots in
(47:36):
very short periods of time, right like where the TikTok generation,
Instagram like reels like the small spans of time that
we have our attention held for, and I think I
start to wonder if our attention is being reduced to
those little, small, bite sized pieces as well. And I
think what that could also mean is that we have
a hard time looking beyond the immediate and in the
short term. Oh, it's uncomfortable to ask for a discount,
(47:59):
But what Matt pointing to is the fact that, no,
you need to think about this long term, because that's
what these businesses are doing, especially especially these larger, larger businesses,
when they're thinking, like you said, about upselling and the
future products that you may partake in. Oh, the fact
that you might have kids who are also going to
be loyal to this brand. I think that's just an
incredibly helpful way to inform how it is that we
are thinking about ourselves not just as savvy consumers, but
(48:23):
also as investors and all the other smart ways that
we handle our money.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
And those businesses they don't want to do irreparable harm
to that relationship with you, because they mean, they know
that means fewer sales down the road. Then they know
that means less loyalty. If you call up your credit
card company and they're like yeah, we're not going to
help you out. We're not going to wave that thirty
nine dollars late feet or whatever. Well, they realize that
means you might never use that card again, and that
could be tens of thousands of dollars of spending in
(48:49):
the coming years that therefore going because they made you
mad that one time. And so yeah, I think companies
are cognizant of that, which is great. That is the
way they should be. That's how businesses should be run.
It's also a very.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Do you think it's overly rational way of Uh? Is
it giving businesses too much credit? Because unfortunately there is that.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Enlightened self interest which we talk about in capitalism that
makes sense. It's it's not just that businesses don't live.
They don't survive for very long. If it's all about
that momentary win.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
It happend to be about It depends on leadership, right,
Because if you have somebody have a CEO, you have
a CFO who's coming in and they're just there to
make a big splash and there wells fargo and they
would have and they want to boose profits for a
couple of quarters or a couple of years, you do
fall into that sort of short term thinking loop, but
eventually that comes back to bite them in. Think about
not going to last.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Think about the damage that has been done to a
brand of a company like Wells Fargo now, which we
tell everyone to stay away from no matter what, like,
don't do business with them because they're that like And
have they changed turned over a new leaf. I don't know,
like time will tell, but it's hard to redo that
and repair the damage that's done when the business has
treated people so poorly totally. So I think my big
takeaway was kind of at the end where it's like
(49:55):
document your successes, and I think that that is an
unsoid like I thought. I thought about it for a
little bit and I was like, yeah, it seems kind
of like goofy, but I think it's true. Then when
you document those things and you realize, wait a second,
Over the past year, I've saved a total of nine
hundred and twelve dollars in this area, this area, in
this area by asking these questions. It took me a
grand total of this much time. Yeah, and you're like,
(50:15):
wait a second, that's a lot of money, And I
think it starts to beget you. You start to get
more impoltant to ask to use these tools again and
again and again, realizing that you have more power than
you thought you have. And I just I think it
is an important thing to recognize and the only way
you're going to recognize it more and more over time
is by documenting it. So I think that's a clutch suggestion.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I dig it. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you have
to go and fight every single bill that comes your way,
but it is helpful to know that, Like, well, if
I choose to spend some time on this, I can
probably fight this. I think that empowerment is a huge
part of what Matt is doing. Like you said, somebody
told him, Man, people need to be talking about this.
He's out there talking about it. It's a part of
why we have the show. But Jelis introduced the beer
(50:56):
that you and I enjoyed during this episode. It's a
Horns the groooner. This is I think that's how you
say it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But this is the pills, not perfect German, but it'll pass.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, what were your thoughts on this on this Aldi beer?
This is one of the ones I picked up from
Aldi again to commiserate the fact that we did not
reach our daffy campaign giving goals.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
We both lost ones who were both drinking crab beer,
not craft beer. I'm gonna call this an average pills
and average pills like it wasn't terrible. I've had worse.
But I would also never suggest Aldie Beers to anyone ever,
even though I would suggest going there for grocery shopping.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
It's funny that you said it's not the worst, because
I feel like it's pretty close to the worst. Because
so on Monday we enjoy enjoyed another European Pills and
I was like really surprised at how clean and kind
of fresh it was. I feel like this is I
don't know, it's something about it tastes old. It tastes
like like a new garden hose, like a fresh not
in a great way, like it's I don't know, the
(51:53):
kind of rubbery elements it's got, like the fresh can
of tennis balls kind of smell or aroma to it.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Well, I will say, so you know they have like
best buy dating on Kansas. Ye, that's how you just
look at it. Well sometimes and some will tell you
when it's canned. I just will tell you when it's
best to drink it by, and so you have a
hard time knowing how old the extra thing is. This
one says April six, twenty twenty five, which makes me
think they think that this beer is great for a
long time. But the truth is beers are really only
good for I don't know, eight weeks maybe before they
start to decline in quality. So who knows how long
(52:21):
these have been sitting on the shelves.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Well, but that being said, like I don't know, I'm
not gonna say it was absolutely terrible. I think for
a lot of folks out there who like some of
those different flavors, who like a nice European pills, there's
something something they can pick up at their local Aldi,
if you're so lucky to have an amazing, low cost
grocery store like Aldi near you.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's amazing how two of our favorite grocers have some
of the worst forays in the craft beer that being
Costco and Aldi. Oh my gosh, the beers are trash,
and I would love to see them partner with better
brewers and make more interesting beers. But you know, they
do other great things, so.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
You can't have it all right now, all right, that's
gonna be it for this episode. You can find show
notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com. Buddy,
that's going to be it.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Next time, Best friends out, Best Friends Out,
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
and today we're talking about asking the right questions so
you can save more money with Matt Schultz. Yeah, So lately,
(00:28):
I've been working with my kids.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
To teach them to advocate for themselves, and specifically, what
I've been working on is teaching them that there is
more to that than just stating a problem. So, for instance,
one of our kids, she'll say like, I'm thirsty, which okay,
it is great to recognize the issue at hand, but
to make a request, for instance, can I have some
OJ Now? We are getting somewhere right now, she has
(00:51):
taken a proactive step in solving her own problem.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Where the fridges.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
But this is an important lesson to learn because, as
we'll just us today, it's basically up to us to
resolve our own financial conflicts and problems. No one is
out there who's going to save us. And joining us
today is Matt Schultz, who is the chief credit analyst
at lending Tree. He's also the author of the new
book Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More, which is essentially
a money manual that teaches readers the important questions that
(01:20):
we all need to ask He includes decision trees. He
includes a whole lot of practical tools, even scripts that
will help us to do just what the title says. So, Matt,
we're excited to talk with you about your book. Thank
you for joining us today on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Of course. Yeah, Matt, We're looking forward to this. First question, though,
we ask everybody who comes on the show, is what's
your craft beer equivalent? Which means what do you spend
potentially abnormally amount of money on while you're still doing
the right thing, you're saving and investing wisely for your future.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm kind of nerdy about obstacle course racing, Okay, So
I'm one of those guys who does. I've done a
half dozen I think Spartan races and a couple of
other couple of other races kind of like that. So
I'm the guy who pays money to crawl through mud,
(02:14):
under bug wire and carry giant buckets uphills and stuff
for some reason. But I love it, and it's a
lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Electric shock therapy that you've participated in, And do they
have like the live wires hanging out or is that
maybe something that they decided to rule.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Out because of the liability.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Perhaps no electric shock, no no beatings or anything like that,
but still it's it's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Nice, couldn't you have just joined the Marines and maybe
had a similar experience but gotten paid for it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh? Man, I have some folks in my family who
would have been very very happy if I had done that,
But not in the cards for me.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, maybe a tough mutter or a Spartan races in
the cards for us. Joel Matt Joel and I are
both signed up to run the Peach Tree, which is
a ten k, which is obviously nothing compared to it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It is that to mention it that you're.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Doing, but pretty old for you in particular. Man, this
is like you're I don't know. It's the first more
serious race for you, so I think it'll It will
be a ton of fun. It's good to physically challenge yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It rains a lot. Hey, it might involve mud. We'll see,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And and for me it helps because I'm somebody who
like I, I like to stay active and all that,
but I also can get lazy if I don't have
goals that I'm pushing towards and and you learn pretty
quick when you're doing a spartan race or a tough
mutter that if you haven't prepared it all, it's gonna
(03:36):
it's gonna be a long day. And so knowing that
I have one of those a few months out or whatever,
it can be really motivating.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I get that caused you to get after it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Matt. Let's uh, let's talk about your book, because it
starts with a simple premise, which is that we have
more control over over our finances than we think. But
that being said, we've all experienced inflation, can't control that
rapidly rising home prices. We're talking about out of control
government spending as well. There's nothing that we can do
about any of those. But you still say that there's
(04:09):
more to our personal finances than what is happening outside
of us. Can you kind of explain the premise and
make an argument for that.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah. Absolutely, It's something that I've said over and over
again for years at lending Tree and in previous jobs.
And basically, the idea is that you have way more money,
way more power over your money than you realize. And
that's true whether you're talking about asking for a lower
(04:37):
interest rate on a credit card, lowering your medical bill,
talking to your elderly parents about money, or splitting the
bill at a group dinner without getting stuck paid two
thirds of it. And it's just something that you need
to be aware of and that you need to be
willing to take some action and be a little bit vulnerable,
(05:00):
and especially when it comes to businesses. Really the idea
behind it all is the power comes from the idea
of business is viewing you in terms of your lifetime value,
so meaning that if the longer you stick around as
a customer, the more money a business is going to
(05:21):
make off of you. Thus it is worth their money
to keep you around and do things it keep you happy.
So if they waive a forty dollars credit card late
fee and it keeps you happy and has you spending
on that card for years and years to come, it's
a complete no brainer for them. And same thing with
(05:43):
like logo t shirts at gyms and that sort of stuff.
So once you kind of once you kind of understand
that idea, it can change your mindset to where you
feel like you're coming at it from a position of
power rather than kind of bended me.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Gotcha, So you're kind of that that's why they're willing
to offer us discounts. I guess if you're specifically talking
about a retailer, it's because, hey, they know they might
take it on the chin this one time, but it's
in order to keep you happy, to keep you coming back,
because they know they've got a bunch of future sales
lined up with you if they can keep you happy.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Now. Yeah, that's really what it gets down to in
a lot of ways, And in my job at lending Tree,
I talk about it a lot with specifically with banks
in particular, because banks want you to stick around because,
for one, if even if you have a credit card
and you spend on it but you never carry a
(06:41):
balance and never pay any interest, banks still make money
off of you spending. And they also know that they
can upsell to you. If you have a credit card
there maybe they can get you a personal loan or
an auto loan or something down the line. Or when
you have kids, maybe maybe you make that kid an
(07:04):
authorized user on a card, or there's a million different
ways that it can happen. And it really is all
about understanding that you are valuable and you matter, so
you can kind of flex a little bit of that
power and use it to use it to help you
(07:24):
save a little money.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, let's talk about the problem of like more rays, perhaps, Matt,
because we talk about asking for a discount pretty regularly
on the show, but it's a very underrated thing to do.
Why is it that you think some of you folks
just fail to attempt asking for a discount.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, there's a million reasons, but two of the biggest
are simply that they just don't know that you can
do it. So awareness, yeah, yeah, and then also just
the fact that it's scary, and like, I'm somebody who
talks on camera and on podcasts for for a living,
and I don't like raising my hand in a group
(08:03):
full of people or speaking up or advocating for myself.
I'm not that great at it. And so the average person,
it's it's a nerve racking thing. And even when you
may know that you have a really good chance to
get your way, it's still nerve wracking putting yourself out
(08:24):
there and risking rejection and risking being told no. So
it's it takes a lot for people to do it.
And I talk about in the book, it's like, we
don't shame people for not doing these things. We try
and help them feel more comfortable and feel emboldened to
(08:44):
take those steps because it can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I'm the kind of guy who if I order a
stake medium and it comes like even if it's like
well done, I have a hard time sending it back.
It just feels like disrespectful, right, and I do. Yeah.
I think that's like the maybe feeling some people get
too sometimes w comes to asking for a discount, is
they're like, I don't want to I don't want to
feel like I'm disrespecting the business owner. Can you talk
about the difference between maybe asking a big corporation for
(09:08):
a discount versus pestering a small business owner, Like, is
there a different approach that people need to take, Like
if I'm if I'm talking to Walmart or Amazon, should
I be doing something differently than I'm doing with like
somebody who owns a boutique shop down the street.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Short answer is yes, And you may even there are
people who I've spoke with spoke with one hundred plus
people for the book, and there are plenty of people
who I talked to who said, I don't even negotiate
with small businesses because I understand the hustle and I
understand how tight the margins are. And there's other things
(09:46):
like that for you know, artists or you know things
like that, where you're just like, I'm going to respect
that person and honor the work that they've put in
by not negotiating with them, whereas with Amazon and Chase
in places like that, going at it like a like
(10:07):
a shark and a feeding frenzy. So so, but there
is a difference, for sure, and especially when you're talking
about a small business, it really is about kind of
being as close to the decision maker as you possibly
can when you are when you're doing the negotiating. So
(10:29):
like that's why things like a small boutique clothing store
where one of the people in the store might be
the owner, or in an independent pharmacy places like that,
the closer you can get to talking to the owner
or the manager or somebody who is in a position
of decision making, the easier it is.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
But doesn't that also make it harder to actually ask
for the discout because like it's I guess it's easier
for me to reach out to or say something to
a company that's larger where there's a manager, but something
about talking to an owner of a smaller business like
you said, like for instance, of a boutique. That's where
things start to get a little bit dicey, because I
know that that is the person that controls, you know,
(11:14):
the outcome of what it is that I'm requesting. But
also that's the most honestly difficult request to make of
the actual owner who's poured their sweat and tears, who's
put their own personal dreams on hold in order to
provide for their family in this way, Like, how do
you kind of square how do you sort of write
the two goals here that you're trying to see to fruition.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, I think I think some of it is just
being respectful, and you know, there's a difference between going
in and asking for a little bit of a discount
and asking for like fifty percent off. There are also
things that you can do to kind of make it
a little bit of a win win for a small
(11:55):
business where you can say, like I mean, we've all
been to you know, restaurants and that sort of thing
where somebody's just getting started and they ask you to
leave a review and Yelp or wherever else the case
might be. But you can do things like that where
(12:15):
helping them build some word of mouth by talking about
it through social media, that sort of thing. Those sorts
of things are things that you can do that can
make everybody happy and you're getting a little bit of
a discount and you're helping this small struggling business spread
the word.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So you mentioned that you talk to a bunch of people.
You interviewed a bunch of folks about how they're able
to be kind of successful when it comes to asking
the right questions in order to get a discount. Having
those conversations, what were some of the most common factors
for success that you found. What approach and tactics were
they taking that seemed like they worked the best.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well of the One of the best things that you
can do, and one of the things people talked about
is role playing. So if you're going to ask for
a lower interest rate on a credit card, get with
a trusted friend or relative and literally kind of practice
(13:16):
what that conversation might sound like. You know, you do
it a few times where the first time everything goes
perfectly smoothly. The second time maybe you, maybe you have
your friend throw a little bit of a weird question
at you or push you back a little bit, and
then the third time let the person really hammer you
and make it difficult on you. And you know it's
(13:39):
it's the idea that you know, coaches talk about making
the practice more difficult than the game, and there's there's
something to be said for taking the time to practice.
You obviously can't predict everything that somebody is going to
throw your way, but even just having that little dry
(13:59):
run of that conversation can help you feel a little
bit more confident.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, Okay, talk about the medium of like the form
of communication that you're using when you are, say, asking
for a discount, Because obviously, at least for me, the
ability to hop on like with an online chat and
be like, hey, mess my payment, how about we waive
that late fee? Never done that before, promise I'll never
do it again. That's really easy for me to do.
(14:27):
But simultaneously, I got to think that oftentimes those less
personal forms of communication might be less impactful.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Can you talk about that for a second for sure?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, And there are definitely cases where you can just
go in through a chatbot or stuff like that. If
it's a really straightforward thing that probably a million people
ask for, that you might be able to make it work.
But one of the kind of fundamental underpinnings of the
book is the importance of kind of making that connection
(14:59):
and have that rapport with that person who you're talking to.
And the best way to do that is either face
to face or over the phone, which is a completely
understand as a decidedly old school way of doing things,
and companies seem like they're making it more and more
(15:21):
difficult by the day to actually connect with anybody over
the phone. But if you can do that, and you
can speak with that person and tell them your story,
and even just if it's like a little bit of
chit chat or whatever the case might be with that person,
having that connection with that real person can make a difference,
(15:43):
because I mean, all you have to do is go
on social media for three seconds to see that. People
often feel way more emboldened when they are just writing
out into nothingness, as it put, and are willing to
say things that they would never say to somebody's face
or over the phone. So that's it's an old school
(16:07):
concept and I totally get that. But part of this
book is about the power of the phone call and
the power of the face to face conversation.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
All right, how important and how powerful is it to
be able to walk away completely if you don't get
the price or the terms you want. And sometimes I
think we're negotiating or we're haggling for something, even though
it's not necessarily a common feature in American life, whereas
it is in other cultures. We might haggle for something
and then realize that we could have just easily gotten
(16:37):
it cheap or somewhere else. So maybe we're haggling and
wasting our time I guess in haggling. So yeah, talk
to me about like searching for prices or you know,
independently before you start to negotiate, or maybe like knowing
the market before you start that negotiation process. And then, yeah,
how powerful can it be just to walk away?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Enormously powerful? I mean you have to understand what the
risks are of walking away, and they can be very
different from one thing to another. But you always think
about being in a car dealership and the car dealer
says it's my final offer, and then you walk away
and the person comes chasing after you out the door
(17:18):
going wait, wait, no, we have one other thing. And
that doesn't just happen in car dealerships. It happens all
over the place. And if you are willing to walk away,
then it can help you. And I mean that's even
true where if you if you call your cable company
(17:42):
or your cell phone provider or places like that and
you cancel or you bring up canceling, they may follow
up with an email saying we want you back, that
sort of thing. So there is a lot of power
because again, these companies know that when you are their customer,
(18:03):
they make money off of you and they want you
to stick around. So that's a lot of where your
power comes from.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, so when you're talking about, like speak region a company,
Let's say it's your celf phone provider. Let's say it's
your internet provider. Whoever, I've always heard the customer retention department, like,
those are the people that you get to. Those are
the people who have a little more leeway. You get
the regular person in the general customer service department, and
they might shut you down. But then maybe you say,
all right, I'm thinking about canceling, and that's what they'll
(18:32):
transfer you to the customer retention department. How do you
know you're at the right place, You're speaking of the
right people who then have the power to do something
because you might have asked, you might have tried to negotiate,
and you're just talking to the wrong person, and so
you end up canceling when you could have gotten a
better deal if you had been talking to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, who you talk to really matters, And yes, the
customer retention department or some other terminology along those lines
is a good thing to ask for, or if you
feel like you're getting some if you're not getting anywhere.
And that's another thing that can make people feel better
about making these calls is that companies expect them and
(19:12):
they train their employees to handle them. And chances are,
when you're making that call, you're probably not bringing anything
anybody hasn't thrown at that person ten times before. So
sure you're not going out of bounds, you're not overstepping
your bounds or whatever. People companies expect negotiation, expect pushback,
(19:38):
at least to some degree, and so it's important that
people understand.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
That nice awesome so far.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Mask given some anecdotes as to where it is that
we can ask the right questions. But after the break,
we're going to dive into some specific industries where we
spend a lot of money. There's a lot of money
that we're hemorrhaging that we want to be able to
inform and encourage listeners to hang on to get to
all of that and more. Right after the break.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Or we're back from the break, we're still talking with
Matt Schultz. We're talking about asking the right questions so
you can save more money, and how you have more
control than you think over what you pay for things. Matt,
let's get into some the specific areas and the specific
questions to ask and the specific things to push back on.
In the book, you start off by talking about how
to negotiate credit and debt terms. And you say that
(20:33):
credit card interest rates, for example, obviously they've been rising
quickly for somebody out there with like ten thousand bucks
in credit card debt, that rapid rise and interest rates
that can be costly. But and you mentioned this actually
just a minute ago, but that interest rates on credit
card debt are negotiable. That's not something people usually think
to negotiate. They think of that as the thing the
terms that the bank sets, and then hey, I'm just
(20:55):
getting bludgeoned over the head with it. How do you
actually go about negotiating that?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You definitely can, And frankly, that idea of negotiating credit
card interest rates was the impetus behind the book because
in my job at lending Tree, I've talked about the
fact that's seventy six percent or roughly around their percent
of folks who ask for a lower interest rate on
(21:21):
their credit card get one. And I can't tell you
how many interviews I've done over the years where people
are like, oh my god, really, I had no idea.
Why don't people talk about that more? And after so
much time of getting that type of reaction, I was like, Okay,
I've got something here I need to go. I dive
(21:41):
a little bit deeper in and what you need to
do to get that lower rate is, first of all,
have a basic idea of what type of credit you have,
because if you have a five fifty credit score and
you ask for the lower lowest interest rate available, you're
not going to get it. So it can at least
(22:02):
help you kind of frame things that way, and then
from there you go about looking for other offers that
you might be qualified for, whether it's from a site
like lending Tree, or from the bank that you have
your checking and savings accounts with, or something that came
in your snail mail or whatever. And then you look
(22:24):
at that and you say, well, okay, I'm going to
call my bank and say I've had your card for
a couple of years, I've never missed a payment. I
like the benefits of it, But I have a twenty
seven percent interest rate and I've just been offered a
card with a twenty one percent interest rate? Is there
anything that you can do to match that? And your
(22:48):
bank's absolutely going to listen to you, And the chances
that they will match or at least kind of get
you in the ballpark of that matched number is way
higher than people realize.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So basically you're arming yourself with information, which so I mean,
that's that's key to obviously any negotiation.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
But the kid just come on and be like, I'd
like zero percent for the next eighteen months, no reason, I.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Just want it. Yeah, I mean I guess you could
do that, but yeah, I feel like having the empirical
data on your side is incredibly helpful. But if you
I mean, let's say you do make that call, you
even talk through one of the scripts that you offer
there in the book, Matt, but then you're told no,
does it come down to you having you know, it
sounds kind of funny to say it in this in
(23:33):
these terms, but to have the courage to just bounce
and to move on to one of those other credit cards,
obviously with a plan to actually eliminate your your debt.
But does it come down to your willingness to actually
be able to walk?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
It could, But as funny as this may sound, it
may just come down to you talking to the wrong
person on the wrong day.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So some again, is what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even if it's even if it's
a couple hours later, because in these in these big
customer service centers that these giant megabanks have, when you
call back, you're probably not going to get the same person.
And if you get somebody who has been yelled at
ten times that day, they may not feel that great
(24:18):
about helping you out. But if you call back a
couple hours later, and it may even be worth calling
multiple times to see and just giving it a shot.
And if it's ultimately you keep striking out, then maybe
you threaten to move on. But with something like a
credit card, when you're threatening to move on, you have
(24:42):
to understand the implications of canceling that credit card when
it comes to your credit score and things like that,
because that's that's not a that's not an insignificant thing,
So it's something you need to know about before you
actually canceled that card.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
So maybe the most shocking stat in your book was
you found that ninety three percent of folks who asked
for an annual fee on a credit card to be
waived were successful when they asked. And it's interesting because
the best credit cards come with annual fees, right, But
oftentimes people are like, I don't want to pay the
ninety five or five hundred and ninety five dollars for
the annual fee, but I would love those perks to
(25:22):
come alongside it. I guess like even myself, I would
probably reconsider some of those credit cards that I haven't
signed up for that I have higher annual fees if
I knew I didn't have to pay it. So yeah,
why are the credit card companies often willing to forgive
that annual fee? And how should you go about asking
to get that waved.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
The big reason, well one of the big reasons why
they're willing to wave it oftentimes is that folks who
pay annual fees on credit cards tend to spend more
on credit cards, and credit card companies make a ton
of money off of you when you spend on that card,
regardless of whether you carry a balance or pay them
(26:00):
any interest or not. So that's part of why they're
willing to waive that fee. And that ninety three percent
success rate number is bonkers, and part of that is
that it's like sixty percent got it waived in full
and about thirty percent or so got it reduced, and
(26:23):
even so that's a significant thing. But if you have
one of those super high end cards where it's five
hundred and fifty six hundred dollars annual fee, you're probably
not going to get that waived unless you are a
very special client. But if you have a eighty nine
(26:44):
ninety five dollars annual fee, it certainly does not hurt
to make that phone call and ask them to waive
that annual fee. It probably won't be done permanently, and
it may be something that you have to revisit every year.
But eighty nine ninety five hundred bucks, that's real money.
It's worth making that phone call.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, So maybe not the Amex Platinum, but perhaps the
Amex Lucash preferred.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, which is yes exactly is that we love.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Let's talk about the healthcare system, Matt, because you you've
written about this in your book as well. We've done
entire episodes on just how broken it is. But can
you navigate us through those nefarious waters, like how do
we know what we need to pay and when it
is that we should be pushing back on some of
the bills that we're receiving.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Well, to me, this was the most fascinating part of
the book and honestly the most challenging, because it's such
a complex topic and the dollar amounts in it are
just so crazy and so significant, and these bills wreck
people's financial lives, and so it was it's just so important.
(27:58):
And the thing that people told me over and over
again was never pay that first bill. And the first
medical bill is more or less a work of fiction,
which is a wild thing to think about, but I've
heard it over and over from people who spend their
lives in this space. And the first thing that you
(28:21):
should do. Go back to them and request an itemized
bill with CPT codes on it. And CPT codes are
to medical bills what bar codes are to retail they're
kind of the language, the standardized language used in the
(28:41):
medical space to describe what procedure, what service was done.
And until you know what code is on that bill,
you don't know exactly specifically what you are being charged for.
And that's where a lot of mistakes happen, whether inadvertently
(29:01):
or maliciously, and the difference between one code and another
can be really, really significant. So it's worth your time.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So you've got those codes in hand, and you've got
the itemized bill, and then how do you know which
ones to who to contact and in the medical sphere,
because that's another one like who are you calling and
what are you asking?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Once you've gotten that bill, you can literally google CPT
codes and search for those, and it's the stuff is
available online where you can find And then you go
back to the medical provider and you talk to them about, well,
(29:44):
this says that this particular service was done, but no,
I actually had this instead, or if the bill is
correct and it seems high, or if you want to
negotiate it. You can literally ask them, you know, about
(30:04):
either a no interest payment plan that they would have
available as opposed to using the medical credit card that
they would offer you, or you can talk to them
about negotiating and saying I'm on a tight budget, this
is what I can afford to pay. Can you work
(30:24):
with me? And that's that's a place to start.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
All right. And one other thing too is lots of
times on a lot of hospital websites there is a
page for financial assistance, and a lot of people don't
they're starting to negotiate something that maybe they qualify for
full forgiveness for that bill anyway, or for a good
portion of forgiveness just by going to the back end
of the website and looking at the details that the
hospital's already published about income limits, family size and what
(30:49):
they're willing to forgive.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Right, yeah, yeah, no question. There's there's a lot that
can be done, and it's it's probably not going to
be the first thing that's offered to you. A lot
of times, what might be offered to you is a
medical credit card, which would be roughly akin to a
retail credit card that you would be offered at Macy's
(31:11):
or Best Buy or something like that, and that the
medical provider will be making money off of.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So they'd love for you to do that instead.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Absolutely, And if you're offered that, just you can say,
you know, tell me about no interest payment plan that
you would have or other things that I might qualify for,
like you were saying, based on my income and other
aspects of things. So it's it's it's worth asking those questions.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Nice, all right, Matt. Let's tackle housing next, because we've
always talked about how there are different ways to negotiate
your rent, right, Like, maybe that's you taking over the
long care, maybe signing a longer lease, bigger deposit, perhaps
to make yourself a more attractive renter. But you say
you can actually request a lower interest rate on your mortgage.
Can you explain how that actually works?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, Yeah, there's a few things that you can do.
For one, you need to shop around for various offers
because there are major differences among different lenders in terms
of interest rates and in terms of fees and all
those sorts of things. So that is really really significant
(32:29):
and certainly a place to start, not just in mortgages,
but with cars and other things like that, so shopping
around is certainly a significant thing, but also knowing what
your options are in terms of various types of mortgages
or options that you may have to lower that interest rate,
(32:52):
things like points where you are paying a little more
upfront to lower your interest rate, or getting a different
getting looking at a fifteen year mortgage instead of a
thirty year mortgage, or even an adjustable rate mortgage. These
are all different things that you can look at that
(33:13):
can change the interest rate that you would get from
from that lender. There are definitely ups and downs and
pros and cons and things that you need to understand
before you take the plunge into these things. They're not
things to be done lightly, but it is important to
(33:35):
understand that there are options, and again you don't have
to take the first thing that somebody throws at you,
especially with something as expensive as buying a house.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well related to housing as well, you talk about negotiating
realtor commissions, which is this is like a to be
decided sort of a question because I feel like we're
still in a weird spot after the NAR ruling. But
new question, jos should folks start to navigate that potentially
touchy subject right now, especially, I'm just thinking about realtor
friends who I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Know personally personally, But yeah, for folks out there who.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Are looking to purchase at home, how do they go
about starting to have some of those discussions.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, and this is one of those where, like you
were saying, the world kind of shifted on its axis
since I finished writing the book, and I touch on
it a little bit in the section about reducing your
real estate agent's commission, where it's like, this is coming
and we don't necessarily know exactly how this is all
(34:39):
going to look in a year or five years or whatever,
but we know that stuff has changed a lot. And again,
part of it is just again shopping around and talking
to multiple agents and seeing who is willing to work
for what and who is willing to be flexible with
(35:05):
you in the with these commissions. And one of the
things that I thought was interesting when I was interviewing
people about it is that a realtor friend of mine,
who obviously is a little biased as a realtor, but
she was like, well, you need to be a little
(35:27):
cautious because somebody who is too willing to negotiate their
commission as a real estate agent may be a little
bit may may not be the greatest negotiator for you
negotiating the house, and there's a lot to lose there,
(35:47):
so it may be a little bit of a be
careful what you wish for sort of thing. But again
it's one of those where it's certainly worth asking.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
We've got more questions to get to with you, Matt,
including we were talking about negotiating the price in the
terms of a car. That's one of those things where
you're expected to negotiate where some of these other places
you're necessarily expecting to negotiate. We'll talk about that and more.
We'll get to those questions right after this.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
When we are fact from the break talking with Matt
Schultz about asking questions and Joel mentioned the car, but
maybe before we get to that, Matt, I wanted to
ask you about what it looks like to negotiate with
an employer or a potential employer. You dedicate a whole
chapter to talking about that, are we talking about I mean,
most of the time we're looking at not just your salary,
(36:43):
but you're looking at some of those additional benefits as well.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Right, oh yeah, yeah, and especially now since we've come
out of the pandemic and how maybe the most important
benefit of all is where you work remote versus hybrid,
versus one whatever. That's such an important thing to talk about,
(37:06):
and so it's so important when you're going into these
negotiations to understand not only what you want but also
kind of what is standard in the market. And one
of the great things that has emerged in the last
decade or so is just greater transparency when it comes
(37:31):
to salaries and all other types of benefits. So you
can talk to your coworkers sometimes, although that can be
a little dicey. You can talk to friends, colleagues, relatives
and talk to them about what they're seeing and what
(37:52):
is out there and what kind of the trends are,
along with doing kind of online research to make sure
that you are getting what you should get in these negotiations.
And it's not just about salary, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Let's say you feel a little scorned after that. You're like,
I'm making an eighty and my friend just told me
they're making one ten. They haven't been here as long
as me, and like it's easy to take that information
and be like, I don't know, negotiate poorly with it
because you're hurt. How would you suggest someone take that
information and then go back to their employer and ask
for more money.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Well, I think that I think that some of it
is just about presenting it as you having done your homework,
and you seeing what your position is worth and what
is traditionally what is traditionally paid and offered to somebody
(38:50):
in your role, and the more you can take yourself
out of it, like you said, as difficult as that
can be, as much as you can take yourself out
of it and make the kind of the data driven
case that that you are worth this amount of money,
(39:14):
the better off you'll be. And maybe that looks like
running through what you have provided for the company and
what you have accomplished in those sorts of things, along
with data showing what somebody with your title, with your
experience with your role is making. Because I do know
(39:39):
that companies are being more sensitive now to kind of
level setting their employee salaries as it relates to what
is in the market out there, and so as scary
as it might be to come into that conversation, I
(40:01):
don't think that you should expect that your company it
would be something that your company would never.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Have thought of so, okay, let's talk about buying a
car or I was gonna say a new car, but
most likely what we want to recommend for folks to
do is buy a used car, a new to you car.
And so a two part question, Matt, what kind of
information should folks go into that negotiation with as they're
talking to somebody who they're looking to buy a car from.
What kind of information.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Should they have?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
And then what kind of tactics should they use when
it comes to having that conversation When it comes to
having that negotiation.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, really, really, the best thing that you can do,
assuming you're not just paying cash for that car, is
to come in to that to that dealership pre approved
for a loan from a credit union or some other
some other lender source. Because a the dealership almost never
(40:59):
has the best rate and financing and be it helps
you frame the conversation where you don't have to worry
about about the car dealer holding that over your head.
It just changes the tone of things a little bit.
(41:20):
So that is really really important. And again, going into
that conversation having an idea of what you are looking for,
what you're willing to pay, and kind of sticking to
(41:40):
your guns and recognizing your value as a customer is
a really really significant thing. So and then one of
the other important things is understanding the value of timing
to a degree. And we see this at you know,
the end of the year, where a dealer is trying
(42:04):
to move inventory, but that also happens at the end
of the quarter and at the end of the month
and times like that. So it is important for people
to understand that it isn't necessarily always about what you
ask or who you ask. It can also be about
(42:24):
when you ask too, So all that stuff matters.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. One of the things I
love about your book too, is that it's so DIY focused.
It's like, hey, you can do these things. Hey, here's
the scripts, Hey here's the tools, and here's the teaching.
So that basically you should go out there and do
it on your own, which I think is awesome. I
think for the most part that's one hundred percent true.
When might you need the help of a professional or
be better served hiring someone to negotiate on your behalf.
(42:48):
I'm thinking about something like property taxes in the states,
where your property taxes can change like the wind and
shift up dramatically a year overy year. You can challenge
those yourself. You could also hire a pro to do
it on your behalf. Buying a car, right, that's something
people do every seven, eight years, ten years maybe, And
so maybe they feel like, do I have to learn
(43:08):
this whole rigamarole and go out there and challenge challenge
the dealership to try to get the best deal, or
should I just pay a service to help me do this?
Maybe they'll come out with a better outcome anyway, your
credit card debt amount like seeking a nonprofit credit or
debt counselor maybe they can be more effective than I
can be on my own. I don't know. I'm curious
to hear your take on when maybe professional help would
(43:30):
be best.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
It really is kind of on a case by case thing,
because for some people it's just a matter of they
don't have the time. If you've got a bunch of
little kids and a busy job and you really need
the help and you've got maybe you don't have really
a lot of time or money, but you actually might
(43:51):
have a little bit more money than time, then you
should absolutely use that money to buy yourself some time.
So that can that can certainly be one, and you
mentioned the nonprofit credit counselor side of things. Those folks
are enormously helpful, and that is the kind of thing
(44:13):
where where they can offer you more than just negotiating
your card. They can offer you advice on budgeting and
other kind of blocking and tackling sort of stuff in
personal finance. So if you are somebody who feels like
you need you just need somebody to guide you through
(44:37):
these things, as opposed to you just needing to accomplish
one or two things, then something like a credit counselor
can be a really really big.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Help nice okay, Matt, Last, but not least, What is
it that made you include the scorecard at the end
of your book. Why do you think it's important for
folks to track those different asks as well as the
outcomes that they received.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Well, I wanted to leave that there because I wanted
people to basically celebrate their wins. And if you use
this book over time and you can see, oh, my goodness,
you know I've saved myself a couple of hundred dollars,
(45:23):
or I made that I got a five thousand dollars raise,
or whatever the number might be. And you see that
you write it down and it's kind of in front
of your face. That sort of thing can be really
motivating and really empowering. It's it's the whole idea of
the snowball thing, right where you kind of start small
(45:44):
and and once you get that first win, big or little,
that sort of thing can be really addictive and can
and can really help you kind of keep moving forward.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, we usually talk about addiction negatively. That's a good
kind of day. I'm maintaining that momentum.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, it makes me think about the sort of example
I gave at the beginning of like my kids solving
some of their own problems, and yeah, that's empowerment and
that equips them to be able to continue to solve
their own problems. And essentially it sounds like that's kind
of what you're doing there with the scorecard. But Matt,
where can folks learn more about you and what you're
up to, and specifically where it is that they can
(46:22):
learn more about your book.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, you can learn more about me and my book
at my website Matt Schultz dot com. It's s c
h U l Z. And if you sign up for
my newsletter there, I have a you get three free
scripts from the book that can kind of give you
a little bit of a taste for for what the
(46:44):
book is about. And you can buy the book anywhere
that you buy books online and it's available everywhere, and
you can also follow me on socials at buy Matt Schultz.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
That's great, Matt, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
Love the book. And yeah, thanks so much again for
coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
This was fun, all right, nice little conversation with Matt
Schultz about getting the discounts.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
That we deserve. Joel, but you're entitled to. Oh I
almost got into a title like that's not true.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
But it's less about entitlement and it's more about understanding
what you're worth. And so I'm gonna go ahead and
jump to my big takeaway because we kind of segueing
into it, which was to understand your lifetime value as
a customer. It's it's kind of like the overarching principle
I think, and he mentioned it early on. We oftentimes
look at things in a very like in snapshots in
(47:36):
very short periods of time, right like where the TikTok generation,
Instagram like reels like the small spans of time that
we have our attention held for, and I think I
start to wonder if our attention is being reduced to
those little, small, bite sized pieces as well. And I
think what that could also mean is that we have
a hard time looking beyond the immediate and in the
short term. Oh, it's uncomfortable to ask for a discount,
(47:59):
But what Matt pointing to is the fact that, no,
you need to think about this long term, because that's
what these businesses are doing, especially especially these larger, larger businesses,
when they're thinking, like you said, about upselling and the
future products that you may partake in. Oh, the fact
that you might have kids who are also going to
be loyal to this brand. I think that's just an
incredibly helpful way to inform how it is that we
are thinking about ourselves not just as savvy consumers, but
(48:23):
also as investors and all the other smart ways that
we handle our money.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
And those businesses they don't want to do irreparable harm
to that relationship with you, because they mean, they know
that means fewer sales down the road. Then they know
that means less loyalty. If you call up your credit
card company and they're like yeah, we're not going to
help you out. We're not going to wave that thirty
nine dollars late feet or whatever. Well, they realize that
means you might never use that card again, and that
could be tens of thousands of dollars of spending in
(48:49):
the coming years that therefore going because they made you
mad that one time. And so yeah, I think companies
are cognizant of that, which is great. That is the
way they should be. That's how businesses should be run.
It's also a very.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Do you think it's overly rational way of Uh? Is
it giving businesses too much credit? Because unfortunately there is that.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Enlightened self interest which we talk about in capitalism that
makes sense. It's it's not just that businesses don't live.
They don't survive for very long. If it's all about
that momentary win.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
It happend to be about It depends on leadership, right,
Because if you have somebody have a CEO, you have
a CFO who's coming in and they're just there to
make a big splash and there wells fargo and they
would have and they want to boose profits for a
couple of quarters or a couple of years, you do
fall into that sort of short term thinking loop, but
eventually that comes back to bite them in. Think about
not going to last.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Think about the damage that has been done to a
brand of a company like Wells Fargo now, which we
tell everyone to stay away from no matter what, like,
don't do business with them because they're that like And
have they changed turned over a new leaf. I don't know,
like time will tell, but it's hard to redo that
and repair the damage that's done when the business has
treated people so poorly totally. So I think my big
takeaway was kind of at the end where it's like
(49:55):
document your successes, and I think that that is an
unsoid like I thought. I thought about it for a
little bit and I was like, yeah, it seems kind
of like goofy, but I think it's true. Then when
you document those things and you realize, wait a second,
Over the past year, I've saved a total of nine
hundred and twelve dollars in this area, this area, in
this area by asking these questions. It took me a
grand total of this much time. Yeah, and you're like,
(50:15):
wait a second, that's a lot of money, And I
think it starts to beget you. You start to get
more impoltant to ask to use these tools again and
again and again, realizing that you have more power than
you thought you have. And I just I think it
is an important thing to recognize and the only way
you're going to recognize it more and more over time
is by documenting it. So I think that's a clutch suggestion.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I dig it. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you have
to go and fight every single bill that comes your way,
but it is helpful to know that, Like, well, if
I choose to spend some time on this, I can
probably fight this. I think that empowerment is a huge
part of what Matt is doing. Like you said, somebody
told him, Man, people need to be talking about this.
He's out there talking about it. It's a part of
why we have the show. But Jelis introduced the beer
(50:56):
that you and I enjoyed during this episode. It's a
Horns the groooner. This is I think that's how you
say it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But this is the pills, not perfect German, but it'll pass.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, what were your thoughts on this on this Aldi beer?
This is one of the ones I picked up from
Aldi again to commiserate the fact that we did not
reach our daffy campaign giving goals.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
We both lost ones who were both drinking crab beer,
not craft beer. I'm gonna call this an average pills
and average pills like it wasn't terrible. I've had worse.
But I would also never suggest Aldie Beers to anyone ever,
even though I would suggest going there for grocery shopping.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
It's funny that you said it's not the worst, because
I feel like it's pretty close to the worst. Because
so on Monday we enjoy enjoyed another European Pills and
I was like really surprised at how clean and kind
of fresh it was. I feel like this is I
don't know, it's something about it tastes old. It tastes
like like a new garden hose, like a fresh not
in a great way, like it's I don't know, the
(51:53):
kind of rubbery elements it's got, like the fresh can
of tennis balls kind of smell or aroma to it.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Well, I will say, so you know they have like
best buy dating on Kansas. Ye, that's how you just
look at it. Well sometimes and some will tell you
when it's canned. I just will tell you when it's
best to drink it by, and so you have a
hard time knowing how old the extra thing is. This
one says April six, twenty twenty five, which makes me
think they think that this beer is great for a
long time. But the truth is beers are really only
good for I don't know, eight weeks maybe before they
start to decline in quality. So who knows how long
(52:21):
these have been sitting on the shelves.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Well, but that being said, like I don't know, I'm
not gonna say it was absolutely terrible. I think for
a lot of folks out there who like some of
those different flavors, who like a nice European pills, there's
something something they can pick up at their local Aldi,
if you're so lucky to have an amazing, low cost
grocery store like Aldi near you.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's amazing how two of our favorite grocers have some
of the worst forays in the craft beer that being
Costco and Aldi. Oh my gosh, the beers are trash,
and I would love to see them partner with better
brewers and make more interesting beers. But you know, they
do other great things, so.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
You can't have it all right now, all right, that's
gonna be it for this episode. You can find show
notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com. Buddy,
that's going to be it.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Next time, Best friends out, Best Friends Out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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