Financial Pessimism Will Eat You Alive (Bestie Ep) #1008

Whether you saw some crazies doing it on TikTok or read about it in a fitness magazine, it seems like a lot of folks are giving ice baths a try. Evidently it’s supposed to be good for your health, but regardless, there are hordes of people who are intentionally soaking in ice cold water around the 55 degree range. Of course this goes completely counter to what ‘normal’ people subject themselves to. Most folks like their showers warm or even hot, and in the rare instance when you run out of hot water, it can be incredibly frustrating. But just think if you had the perspective of those folks doing cold water therapy. Cold water wouldn’t be an inconvenience but rather something that you would embrace! Your outlook can impact a host of different aspects of life: your happiness, your health, and of course it can impact your money. And especially in our country, it seems that a malaise of pessimism is keeping folks from taking the most basic money moves that could benefit their future. So during today’s episode we present evidence of increased levels of pessimism, how it affects your ability to earn/save/invest your money, and some practical tips to becoming a more optimistic person which ultimately leads to more wealth.

 

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During this episode we enjoyed a Stress Dissolver Blackberry by Common Space- thanks to our buddy Joel for donating this one to the pod! And please help us to spread the word by letting friends and family know about How to Money! Hit the share button, subscribe if you’re not already a regular listener, and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Help us to change the conversation around personal finance and get more people doing smart things with their money!

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Hod of Money. I'm Joel I Matt and
today we're talking about why financial pessimism will eat you alive.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
So we've talked about fear factor in some of those
different shows here on the podcast before. Joel, have you
ever eaten anything alive? I guess like the quintessential example
I'm thinking of is like swallowing a goldfish at some
trashy bar that's never did it that kind of thing.
Or maybe I'm thinking of like the worm in the
bottom of a like tequila shot or something like that.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
No, never done any of that stuff. Can't say that
I have. Maybe I haven't lived in adventurous life. Maybe
that's what that I think that there's a lot more
to an adventurous life than eating things or swallowing things
that are still alive. But we are going to talk
about financial pessimism. Why we think that more folks need
a little injection of financial optimism sort of like a
like a quarter zone shot to get you through the game.

(01:07):
And it really does, like its shockingly makes a massive difference.
And I think you know, what we want to talk
about is an overwhelming tide of pessimism that it feels
like our country has experienced is continuing to experience and
kind of push back on that because it's going to
make a difference not just to like in how you
feel and how you move through life, but it's gonna
make a difference when it comes to your money too.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's going to impact your wallet as well. Yeah, real quick,
before we move on to the show, before we get
to the beer that we're gonna enjoy. During this episode,
we were just talking and I don't know how we
stumbled upon this, but this is the kind of thing
we do. We're talking about different financial products and whatnot,
but we got to thinking about Venmo cash app, the
different financial apps on your phone, and we're like, wait
a minute, are those apps FDIC ensured Because more and

(01:51):
more folks they're using those accounts as if they were
checking accounts. And we quickly looked it up and guess
what they are not FDIC and sure, so just a
quick tip, do not store excess money within those apps.
Preferably immediately deposit that money into your account, work with
withdrawal it initiate that withdrawal from the account. That way,

(02:12):
you don't have that money just sitting there.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I don't think Venmo has the ability lets you have
the ability to move funds right when you get them
without manually doing it. Whereas cash app, I have like
a little toggle in the back really and I can
literally is there an automatic sweep there's an automatic sweep shop.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
So I have used that just to prevent any money
from sitting there in the cash.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, you want to get that money out. You want
to get that money into your highield savings accountry. You're
earning that real interest that's right, which we can say
these days because than are paying a real interest interest rate.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, and that's why your money is protected too, because
it's just not protected in these accounts. One from scammers.
There's I get all sorts of random requests, like once
a month, it seems like somebody's straightened.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Out the grocery store. Send one hundred bucks.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Jimmy two shoes. This request in like five hundred dollars.
I'm like, what is who is this person? And that
kind of stuff happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
You don't want to just out of the goodness of
your heart donate to I think about it some on
Jimmy two shoes, and I think I like to give
in different ways. But and maybe Jimmy two shoes needs
another pair. I don't know, but like, this is the
kind of thing tomorrow he'll be Jimmy three shoes. This
is the kind of thing most people don't think about, though,
is like is my money in these apps safe?

Speaker 1 (03:20):
And the truth is that, yeah, we've never talked about
that on the show before then, and cash app have
not been great when somebody does get scammed about helping
them get their money back. And at the same time,
since the money is an FDIC insured and it's not
earning anything, if.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
They were to go under, yeah, you out that money.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Use those apps to facilitate transactions, to facilitate paying a
friend or family member for something, but don't use it
as a place to store money. Make sure you're moving
the money out in that you're not keeping a balance basically.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I will say though that if there are any if
you have a check card, basically if you have an
account that's associated with either Venmo or cash Up, so
like cash Up, they have like the cash card and
that is an FDIC insured bank has partnered with cash App,
And so you might be thinking, oh no, no, no, I
definitely have seen FDIC insured before well, that's money that

(04:06):
is specifically insured via that bank. But for I think
the vast majority of folks out there who are just
using the app, they haven't gone down the rabbit trail
of expanding the cash app offerings or the venmo offerings,
then your money is not FDIC insured. Yeah, yeah, just
keep keep that in mind. Word of the wise, Yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
All right, Let's let's mention the beer we're having on
this episode. This is called Stress Dissolver. Let's hope it
works its magic by Common Space Brewing. I feel better already, Yeah,
feel so relaxed. And this friend of the show five
am Joel. He donated these beers. This is a Californian
brewery to us, so big thanks to our buddy kind.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Of Hawthorne, California.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
So BlackBerry sour beer. So I think he picked up
a Trader Joe's out there.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
What may go good beer Joe's forget that? Yeah, I
remember buying Scotch at a Trader Joe's when Kate and
I last time her and I went out to Yosemite.
We landed. I forget exactly what city we were in,
but walked in there I saw some off label Scotch,
and I thought to myself, that's something I want to
enjoy at the end of a long day hiking. Yeah,
but uh yeah, very cool. Thank you Joel for donating

(05:07):
this one to the show.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And we can't get liquor in grocery stores here in Georgia,
but they do it in California. It's legal there. So
but Matt, let's get onto the subject of let's talk
about financial pessimism and how can mess people up. And
for some reason this topic made me think of ice baths.
They're so hot right now. Oh yeah, not really hot,
but they're you know, people like them.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Dad humor.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
But I've never done one. Idiots speaking of like things
we haven't done. Haven't eaten the live animal, and I
haven't taken done one of these ice baths.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I'm kind of scared.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
But you know, there are lots of folks purposely jumping
in freezing pools of water every day. There's some guy
or Jim, didn't you say he's spending twenty dollars, Yeah,
he played on.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Ice twenty dollars. He does well, he does two ice
baths every day, evidently, so and you know there's supposed
to be beneficial reasons to doing it, Like it's supposed
to help with inflammation, with muscle recovery. Sure, if you're
really a fitness fanatic, if you want to really get
nerdy about it, it activates brown fats. I've learned this
listening to I don't even know what that is Huberman Lab.

(06:06):
It's like the good, good kind of fat.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay, it activates it at least a better higher metabolic health. Okay, Okay,
I've heard it elevates your mood stuff like that, which
which is cool. Twenty bucks a day on ice sounds extreme.
That's insane, and I think a lot interestingly enough, I
don't know about our listeners, but if someone threw me
in a freezing cold pool of water, I'd be pissed, Like,
I would not be happy.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I'd be like, what do you do? Like?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
But some people choose to do this very thing on purpose,
and I think so much of why has to do
with the person's outlook, right, Because like you said, the
ice bath is really is largely done for health benefits.
And but most of us, including myself, prefer warm showers
hot showers, sir, because we're not necessarily thinking about the
health benefits. We're thinking about how we can be most comfortable,
and so I think a simple shift of perspective can

(06:49):
drastically change how it is that we view an activity
and whether or not we want to participate or not.
And similarly, when you approach the world from a pessimistic
point of view, it has a negative impact on how
we do so many things, including how we.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Handle our money. That's true. Yeah, So actually just last night, dude,
I hopped in the shower, and I assumed that one
of my girls was getting out of her shower at
right about the same time. But no, she kept that
hot water running the entire time. She took like a
twenty twenty five minute shower. Meaning they're not even teenagers yet,
but oh my gosh, they're already there. Might have to
install a second water here a lot of time. I've

(07:23):
got four teenagers all showering. But what this means, though,
is I got to rinse off in some frigid water. Understandably,
I was annoyed, but if I had had a different perspective,
I could have even embraced the cold. It would have
been something I was looking forward to. It's like, I'm
not even paying twenty dollars in it would have to take
this cold shower, right. I simply needed a different point
of view, and instead of looking at history and taking

(07:46):
an encouraging note of optimism from our past, it seems
that a like a malaise of pessimism is just keeping
folks from taking the most basic money moves that could
benefit their future. And you know, it's not that they
don't know what it is that they should be doing
right like, it is not necessarily a math problem. Instead,
it's an outlook problem. Too much pessimism is going to

(08:07):
throw sand into the gears. It's going to inhibit your
financial progress. And so if you feel like defeat is eminent,
if you don't believe that you can make progress, well
you're gonna be bound to lose. And hopefully this episode
can change your perspective. Yeah, it's you gotta have that
kind of small but mighty perspective. And it's just so
easy to get lost in a cycle of pessimism. I think,

(08:30):
especially today and as a nation, like you said, we're
in this malaise of pessimism. I like the way you
put it. It seems like we're more pessimistic now than
ever before. And I think stats actually bear that out.
New statistics revealed that a record sixty nine percent of
Americans hold negative views about the current and future state
of the economy. So they say, hey, you know what,
it sucks now, it's gonna suck for forever. Like that
is basically what people are saying. And that's seven out

(08:53):
of ten people who basically have that take. And let's
be honest, I mean, bad stuff happens with astonishing regularity.
So we're not here to be ahead in the sand
sort of believe everything's going to be great. The truth is,
if you want to bathe in the sadness, it's never
been easier because the twenty four seven news cycle just
gives us something to be upset about no matter what.

(09:16):
And it makes me think of the recent Wall Street
Journal pole matt which found that only twenty one percent
of Americans think that their kids are going to be
better off than they are. And again, that's more pessimism.
That's eight out of ten people saying, my kids don't
have a shot at a better life.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Than I've got. Yet, we're living in the greatest age
of abundance the world has ever known. The progress we've
made in the past two hundred years and twenty years
specifically is astounding. Yet we managed to tell ourselves this story,
this doom and gloom sort of despair story, with those
clear signs of progress all around us. It makes me think,
and I know I probably shouldn't reference him because he
kind of got canceled or whatever, but Louis c K.

(09:51):
Do you remember his airplane bit. I think he told
it on like a late night show or something, and
it was just the best thing ever where.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Because we're complaining about Wi Fi, why find out working?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
And this is like ten years ago, when that was
still like a novel concept that you have that you
could actually get Internet on an airplane, And he's like,
we're in a metal tube hurtling through the sky, like
it's kind of incredible. And so it's amazing. You can
either be the person on the airplane being like, what
isn't the WiFi work? This sucks? Or you can be like,
I'm in a modern marbl It's amazing how safe airplanes are,
how they fly me at five hundred hurtled me through

(10:23):
the air at five hundred miles an hour to my destination,
and I can go places I never could have gone
before for cheaper than ever before. So much of how
you view that that trip, that experience depends on your outlook.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Is that how fast airplanes go? By the way five unders?
I think they're like four to fifty And so as
you said that, I was like, I have no idea
how fast airplanes got. It's like four hundred and five
hundred miles an hour? What's mock like? Mock one? What
is is that a thousand? I don't know. For two thousands,
I'm not sure. Okay, but okay, so you mentioned that,
say a thousand, You're right, I think it's a thousand. Yeah,
I said two thousand because I'm thinking of two thousand
pounds within a ton.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, what did you reach in the latest topic on
nine or something? Then he passes out. Yeah, I don't know, but.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I wanted to mention you brought up that Wall Street
Journal poll, But there are some other elements in that
poll that reveal that basically that we value money more
highly than other values that were more traditionally held in
high esteem, talking about values like our country, our family, community, children,
or religion as well. But not only are our priorities

(11:23):
out of whack, but honestly, we think that pessimism it's
it's partly driving it, but it's also being exacerbated by
that same set of beliefs. It's almost as if our
society wide pessimism is swirling out of control and then
it's creating more of the same. It's it's a doom,
it's reinforcing itself. It's like a turbo chargedness of pessimism.

(11:45):
So it kind of makes me think, like what came first,
the chicken or the egg, right, because you could make
a pretty good argument that even the deprioritization of values
like your family or community and religion, that these are
actually the sources perhaps of the heightened levels of pessimism
that we've seen.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it makes me think of our recent conversation with
Seamost doles Off and how he talked about that's why
we put so much value in our careers. Now we've
lost basically a sense of value and meaning in some
of these other places where we traditionally derive them. Absolutely,
So the career is the end all, be all, and
so not only is it bringing home the bacon, but
it also informs our self worth, and that is not

(12:23):
a healthy place to be in when most of your
feelings of self worth come from your job, and then
when you skip out on community and family, it's no
surprise that you end up with higher levels of loneliness too,
because back in twenty eighteen, twenty two percent of all
adults said that they always or often feel lonely or isolated.
That was before COVID, that was in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
So my guess is those numbers have gotten worse, maybe doubled.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
This is just a guess, but a lack of social
cohesion is directly responsible for some of the downer vibes
that we might be feeling. And funnily enough, new stats
have just come out about the Americans who consider themselves
among the happiest. They literally, in response to survey, not
only do they check the happy checkbox, they say no, no, no,
I am very happy. And it turns out to this

(13:07):
it has dropped, but there still is a certain there's
this contingent of folks, and there have been articles written
about like what can we learn from these people who
are very happy?

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Of them say that a strong marriage, being religious, a
solid fitness regimen are the main reasons why. And a
lot of these folks were actually older adults interestingly enough,
But that was just kind of fascinating to me, like
that these things that were getting away from as a
culture that have traditionally brought happiness and have made us
look on the bright side, I think a little more
frequently the happiest people still retain belief and attachment to

(13:37):
those things.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah. Yeah, So I think those are a number of
the factors that have led to this overall pessimism, and
I think media and honestly technology are partly to blame
as well. And unfortunately news outlets, they've been incentivized to
cover the stories that guess what, it's the stories that
get us fired up, that make us mad. Well, that's
what social media amplifies too. Yeah, yeah, to write the

(13:59):
headlines that are going to generate the most clicks. There's
a reason you never see the headline like local family
enjoys a nice dinner together an outdoor play session afterwards,
Like that is not No one cares about that wompomp
zero clicks. That is not going to go viral, and
instead it's the polarizing tweets when it comes to traditional media.
But like you said, social media as well, right, and honestly,

(14:20):
aside from the most divisive content that we can find
on social media. It's I think the slow drip that
we are exposing ourselves to of just like the images
the video that is undoubtedly leading to dissatisfaction in our
own lives. Data from the CDC, they show that the
number of teenagers over the last decade with clinical levels
of depression has doubled. And there's research from doctor Jane

(14:45):
I think it's Twinkie. We actually mentioned one of her
articles a few weeks ago on a Friday flight. She
was she dug into the data on millennials and how
well they're actually doing compared to just the stereotype of
what millennials are often.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
A pessimistic stereotype, the like that they when the data
shows more optimistic like results in reality. Yeah yeah, but
she's done a lot of research on different generations, but
she highlights that one of the ways that this depression
has manifested itself is the pessimism, and this is especially
evident among gen z. She noted that that's one of
the it's one of the biggest shifts. It's one of

(15:17):
the biggest differences that she found when she dug through
lots and lots of research between millennials and gen z
is the outlook on life, and the reality is that
everything that we're experiencing, the more pessimism that we're feeling,
it infiltrates every area of our lives and it really
does impact our finances. And so that's what we really

(15:38):
want to get into. That's the heart of the show
for today. I think we just really wanted to set
it up really well because there is It's not that
we're not finding some straw man a pessimism range supreme
in our culture.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
It truly is a real problem. But we're also not
going to leave you in the lurch. Right. I feel
like we've taken people on this journey and we're like
at the bottom of the right, and we're not going
to like open the door and kick you out and
make you walk to the top. Right, We're gonna help
you to get to the top.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
But it really is gonna is gonna mess with your
money if you retain too much pessimism. How it does
ruin or how it can lead to ruin for your finances.
We'll discuss more on that right after this.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
All right, we are back. We're talking about how financial
pessimism will wreck you. And all that being said, we
just kind of talked through all the different ways that
we are not fans of pessimism.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Check your pessimist itself before you wreck your pessimistic self.
But that being said, some pessimism is actually necessary. So
we're gonna make a case for moderate doses of pessimism.
You don't want to overdo it because it can lead
to lots of down slides like we just talked about.
But one of my favorite money quotes comes from friend
of the show, Morgan Housel, and he says, to save

(16:54):
like a pessimist, but invest like an optimist. And the
reality is that we save money because bad things they
can and they do happen in life. This is the
reason that living paycheck to paycheck is such a precarious.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Position to find yourself in, right, Like, basically you've got
zero financial margin. Our emergency funds are necessary because they
act essentially as like these financial shock absorbers, right Like
they cushion and they smooth out the ride as we
are pursuing our financial goals. And ultimately, that small injection
of pessimism is actually going to allow us to be
optimistic over the long run because those savings are going

(17:29):
to ensure that we don't completely derail ourselves, that we
don't completely wreck ourselves goal ignoring reality where we to
wear rose color glasses that could lead to financial ruin,
and that's what we're trying to avoid here today. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I love that balance, right, because I think optimism is
the greater need, especially considering kind of what we're dealing
with as a culture and as Americans with just too
much pessimism. Just we're inundated with it. It's true, but
it's also important to mention that like no pessimism and
being optimistic at every turn and potentially not being realistic

(18:03):
in terms of potential downsize, potential emergencies that could befall you,
that would just be unwise, that would be not not
prudent when it comes to your finances. So, and theoretically,
I think you might assume that pessimists would have lots
of money sitting in cash in a savings account that
they would say, Man, I'm nervous to invest, but at
least what I'm gonna do because a rainy day thing

(18:24):
could happen and it could mess me up, I'm gonna
make sure I have more cash in my reserves that
is what you would assume a pessimist would do, But
the reality doesn't play out this way either. Data shows
that while nearly two thirds of optimists have started an
emergency fund, less than half of pessimists have one.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, So, even though we should be saving like pessimists
because unforeseen expenses always crop up, optimistic people actually end
up saving money at a higher clip. And practically speaking, Matt,
this is why money yere Number one is to set
enough money aside for a basic emergency fund, which we
have named as just it's hard to come up with
a one size fits all figure, but we have said

(19:00):
twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars is a great
initial amount for people to strive to have in that
emergency fund before they move on to any other money gear.
And then we want you to put that money aside
and don't touch it for anything other than a true emergency,
which is like an unplanned doctor's visit that's necessary. If
your AC stops working, you got to replace the compressor,
an insurance deductible that I am dealing with right now.

(19:23):
So these are the kind of things that that emergency
savings is really meant for.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, Yeah, you've had a first hand account of the need.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
To use your emergencies in recently, and you know, unfortunately,
and a pessimist would say, gosh, it like that, that
sucks that. I'm the optimist would say, that's what the
emergency funds are for.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
I'm glad I have it. Absolutely. So that's the impact
of being optimistic that it can have on your savings.
But then that second part of Morganhusel's advice is invest
like an optimist, because let's just be honest. If it
seems like it's going to be all doom and gloom, right,
if the future does not look bright, why would you
actually invest your money?

Speaker 1 (19:59):
If AI is going to to run everything and we're
actually gonna like I don't know, I saw if sky.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Net's about to take over. Yeah, if it's going to
the point, what was that Joaquin Phoenix movie? Was it
her or she? Something like that? Oh, he never watched it?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
The AI Basicallyson's voice, Yes is the age. I mean,
if that's our collective future, then we should all just
stop investing now and unplug from the matrix.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
No, it's true, like, if you truly believe that things
are going to be worse in the future, then you
really should just take your cash and don't even stick
it in the bank because of course those could fail
as well, and we actually have seen a couple of
those fail recently. But don't put it stick your money
with a bank, stick it under your mattress, right like
barry in your backyard. Actually, money are like cash. It
could art it if it could degrade, and so make

(20:38):
sure go ahead and make it gold while you're at it, right,
Because if you're too pessimistic, like you, definitely wouldn't consider
investing in companies who are going to take your money.
They're going to use it to innovate. They would develop
new products and services, make the world a better place. No, no, no,
that's not going to happen. If you're taking the pessimistic
point of view.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
We might not even be around to see it because
World War three might be around the corner. So it
just doesn't it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
It makes me realize just how skilled we've become at
hedonic adaptation and the age we live in, and just
the technological advances that we expose ourselves to. Like literally,
I feel like it's on a daily basis that there's
something in the news where sus like, oh, this was
able to be achieved. Yeah, oh, and we're not impressed
by it anymore, Like we are constantly just like okay,

(21:23):
it's just the new normal, even though it's like James
Webb telescope pictures. It's cool for a day or two,
I know, but then we quickly move on and that's
just yesterday's news. And there's something about just the speed
at which technology advances today that I think has caused
us to be able to move on so quickly. We're
just no longer excited by anything that we come across.
Jonathan heightt he's a researcher, social researcher, social scientist, And

(21:47):
you brought something up to me, like you mentioned how
he was talking about how like we lack awe yes
in our world today, right, and he says something like
awe is like a reset button habit. It pulls us
out of ourselves. And in a way, it's almost as
if there's nothing that awes us anymore, Like nothing is impressive.
And when you're not excited, when you're not impressed by anything,
well why would you invest for the future Because it's

(22:08):
all just ho hum and there's nothing that is worth
kind of getting all that.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
It's illustrated by the fact that we use awesome to
define everything, and it's like, because we don't really find
anything to be truly awesome anymore, and so it's awesome, dude.
And because of that, I think that language it means
something and it shows that we've kind of lost our
capacity to feel that awe.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
And I do think this, I think that is truly
awe inspiring.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. But when
you think about it logically, mad I joked about World
War three, but it's it's actually it's kind of hard
to imagine worse scenarios than what we've already lived through
in the world over the decades, in the centuries, Like
think back to Genghis Khan, right, Like that was a
crazy time in human history when you compare what was
happening then. And I'm not like some history buff that

(22:53):
knows all about it, but like it seems like it's
tumultuous time for a lot of people on the Asian continent,
and like we've had wars, pandemics, world wars, right depressions,
yet human progress has been unrelenting.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
And when we're talking about around in metal tube. Yes,
what four hundred and fifty miles per hour.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
I know you have, like the world, all the information
in the history of the world, almost in the palm
of your hand, in your pocket. There's just so much
that's happened, really in the past couple decades that has
changed our lives for the better, as long as we
can siphon off our attention long enough to not get
drawn into far right. And when we're talking about optimism
in investing, we're not talking about being naive, right investing

(23:31):
in the latest random crypto coin because you're hoping it's
going to go to the moon. That is an entirely
different thing. You, of course, want to thoroughly consider the
pros the cons of any potential investment you might make.
You need to understand that you're risking the loss of
capital when you invest money in the stock market or
in any potential investment in real estate, right, Like, there's
no guarantee that real estate markets go up, continue to

(23:54):
go up the same way they have been. But yeah,
you want to have optimism though that the US and
world economies are going to continue to create and solve
problems generating wealth for those companies and for the folks
like you and I who invest in them.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah. Yeah, I think we need to be focusing on
the upside potential that is unleashed or that's unlocked by
our ability to invest for the future. I want to
share an interesting quote from chess Grand Champion Magnus Carlson.
This is kind of a long one, so I'll emphasize
the parts that are important, I think, but he said
that it's always better to be overly confident than pessimistic.

(24:29):
I realized sometimes after games that I was actually way
too confident. I was way too optimistic. But if you're
not optimistic, if you're not looking for your chances, well
you're going to miss opportunities. And you know, I think
there are plenty of players in history who have been
immensely talented, but they're just too pessimistic. They see This
is the part that stood out to me. They see
too many dangers that are not there, and so they

(24:51):
cannot perform at a very high level. Wow, dude, this
is such a great quote. I think for someone specifically
out there who's listening and maybe they're afraid, or maybe
they're hesitant to actually invest their money and perhaps they're
just sitting on a large amount of cash. We're not
saying that bad things don't happen, because they do. But
if you are so preoccupied with prepping for every single

(25:12):
potential negative outcome where you're going to miss your chance
to seriously grow your net worth by investing your money,
makes me think. We've had questions to the show before
about folks asking about some very niche insurance products and
like cancer insurance is what you want, or like pet insurance.
And it's not that we think that you shouldn't love
your dog or that you shouldn't spend money on your

(25:33):
cat or something like that, but you can't ensure definitely
not in your journal though, or you shouldn't ensure. I
guess you can, like cause there are crazy insurance products
out there, but to a certain extent, you have to
assume some of those risks there. Truly isn't a way
to eliminate all risk from your life. It's just it's
a part of living life.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, And so we have to be wise about which
ones we take on ourselves and which ones we do ensure.
Like my home glad I had insurance on that right
because that is one of those things where I couldn't
replace it on my own. A laptop that's a different story,
a gerbil that's a different story. And even pet insurance
like running the numbers, figuring that out is important. But
for a lot of people you can go bankrupt insuring yourself.
I think right like, there are so many insurance products

(26:11):
out there for every potential niche situation. You could insure
yourself to the hilt, and that would be I think
almost like the pessimistic way of going about things. The
realistic with a bent towards optimism, thing to do would
be to ensure the things that you need insured and
then self ensure the rest of the way, having that
money in the bank. But I think that's a good point.

(26:33):
And in addition to twenty nineteen study, Matt found that
optimists are more likely to make financial progress because they
can more easily see the upside of taking action. And
that's one of the downsides of being overly pessimistic, because
even though you might have the right information, you fail
to take action because you doubt that it's going to
make much of a difference. You understand maybe the power
of compounding, but when you're too pessimistic, you envision a

(26:55):
world where the most expected outcome of growth and progress
don't actually materialize and so you end up missing out.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Like I almost think that in this case, this
is an instance where a lack of imagination, a lack
of understanding what the potentials might be down the road,
is going to come back to bite you in them. Yeah.
I think we need to be able to just think
more creatively and not be locked into sort of like
a scarcity mindset where it's just like whatever it is
that you see right now in the present time, that

(27:23):
doesn't necessarily mean that like that is where things end.
Like things are going to continue to expand, and there
are going to be innovations and new products and the
new ways of solving problems exactly like you were just underestimating,
like the ability of human like humanity to creatively solve
problems something.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I don't like global warming. There there are don't they have,
like sea slugs in certain parts of the ocean who
are sure creating some sort of oil that might potentially
replace fossil fuels at some point. I mean, it's it's
like these are the kind of things that some entrepreneurs
and brainiacts out there are testing. I don't know whether
it's going to succeed, but like there are, there's always

(28:00):
someone looking to make progress. And human ingenuity it doesn't
stop even in the face of tumultuous circumstances. So I
think that if you're not investing betting on human ingenuity
to just kind of like cease, I mean, you're really
doubting human history and all the progress that we've currently made.
You're saying, oh, it's probably gonna stop now just when
it's getting good, right, just when it's getting interesting, And

(28:22):
I doubt that's gonna be the case. So simply simply put,
this means continuing to invest no matter what the markets
are doing and no matter what the news outlets are reporting.
But again, we're not talking about unbridled, ridiculous, obscene optimism
that has no bearing in reality, right because I guess
putting all going all in on a single stock because

(28:43):
you're hoping that one that that one's going to take off,
that would be gambling. That'd be like risk taking to
the extreme. Or there's this apartment complex, Matt the owners
of it foreclosed on a thirty two hundred unit apartment
complex in Houston largely because they were not just optimistic.
They were reckless. Right, They took out a debt that

(29:06):
was did not have almost any locked in interest rate,
and as interest rates went up, they felt the crunch,
cash crunch. They assumed that rents would continue to go
up the way they had been going up during COVID,
which was extreme. Those have leveled out, they have moderated,
if not started to decline. And so it's not wrong
to buy real estate and plan for potential scenarios that

(29:30):
aren't best case. You should you should have a plan
in place, a backup plan, and that I feel like
that is a perfect example of investing in a way
that assumes everything is going to continue to go gangbusters,
and if you have a over the long term things
will we believe in the market, right, if people continue,
if HTM listeners continue to invest for the next fifteen

(29:50):
to twenty thirty years in the markets, you will build wealth.
But if you recklessly invest and you're not paying attention
to the terms, and you're not paying attention to kind
of the the trends and what could potentially happen even
on the scene, then you're not striking that balanced combo.
That kind of Morgan Household was preaching I think in
that quote.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, like earlier, not so
long ago, you mentioned just how what's needed most is
more optimism, Right, that's what you see, Like that's when
that's what's in the headlines is the collapse of FTX. Yeah,
this bank folds because of pyramid scheme whatever. What you
don't hear are stories about the millions of Americans who
are becoming millionaires because they're slowly investing within their four

(30:29):
to one k's day in and day out. We try
to highlight those two and had report those numbers. We
love that good news. Yeah, exactly, And.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
There are millions of people out there who have become
millionaires the slow, boring, methodical life.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Absolutely. Yeah. And so we want folks to be optimistic
in that measured just plugging away at it kind of
like that's the approach we want folks to take. And optimists, well,
they also tend to do better in their careers and
they make more money. Stats show that sales folks who
consider themselves to be optimistic they outsell their pessimistic counterparts
by fifth six percent. That's a pretty giant gap. Optimists

(31:03):
they also tend to make more and they get promoted
more easily. It's almost as if as if the optimism
is adding like some helpful fuel to the fire on
the workfront, because honestly, like, if you don't think that
your boss is going to give you a raise, and
so because of that, because you don't think it's gonna happen,
then you opt not to ask. Well, you're definitely not
gonna get the raise, right, Like you're just shooting herself
on the foot. If you don't make the sales call

(31:25):
because you think that the chances are kind of small
that you're gonna make the sale that they'll actually be receptive,
well you've sealed your fate without even giving it a go.
And so it kind of it makes sense that optimism
fuels your career. It fuels your earning potential, and we
certainly want folks to take the more optimistic path when
it comes to their work and their career.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Makes me think of how my kids ask for things
and they are unafraid to ask for basically anything. Like
my daughter, she's nine, and she's like, I want a
laptop for my birthday and I'm kind of thinking, yeah, right,
like not gonna happen. But she is, without fail continually
asking for this sink, continually plugging away for it. She's
got that joal optimism my history. She does so. Sadly
this has gotten passed down from just genes, right, she's

(32:04):
got it built into her genetics. But it's one of
those things where those kids they believe anything as possible,
and we need a little more of that, that playful spirit,
that optimistic belief that they haven't.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Been beaten down by this cold, hard work.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's true, Like that's part and why I think we
get there as we have been told no, we have
been rejected, and we start to learn, we start to
think that the best course of action is to not
even believe or to not even attempt, right, And so
we're basically saying, even though you might have had those experiences,
there's room, there's reason for optimism. And it makes me
think of a phrase that we've all heard, Matt in

(32:38):
this economy, and it's kind of an excuse, right, because
who could make inroads in their career, their savings or
investments with this economy, In this economy when everything around
us is tumultuous, right, too much pessimism will ultimately cause
you to want to save and invest less like why
do more work for the future when you don't necessarily
believe that you can build a better one or that

(32:58):
your kids can have better future, and it becomes a
self fulfilling prophecy. You either won't reach those lofty financial
goals or it's going to take a lot longer to
get there. And so be careful if you lean too
hard in that direction, because it's going to impact your savings,
is going to impact whether or not you invest, or
how much you invest, or how you invest. It's also
going to impact your career, the chances you're willing to

(33:21):
take and how hard you're willing to go to achieve
something that you're really passionate about. I think if we
are too beaten down Matt byer priory experiences and the
ways which we have been let down in the past,
we are liable to lean into that pessimism really hard.
And everything around us is kind of pushing us in
that direction too. But we have to swim across the

(33:41):
current on this.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's right. Yeah, So we've talked through some of the
impacts that being optimistic and what the kind of impact
that can have on your money, on your finances, but
we're going to specifically get to some tips that we
think are going to help you to become more optimistic,
and yeah, that's going to impact not only your money,
but it's going to impact your life in a very
real way. Get to all of that right after this.

(34:11):
All right, man, let's keep going. We're talking about financial optimism.
This is just one of my favorite subjects because yes,
I am naturally optimistic. I was actually talking with a
friend last night and he was like, why do you
like such depressing music? And I was like, why do
you listen to the tunes that are just like so
freaking sad and down? And I was like, I think
it's just because I'm such a naturally optimistic you needed

(34:33):
to balance balance you at me. Is that why we're friends?
Because he needs you need a wet blanket right every
now and again. Yeah, I mean I feel like it
helps put me in touch. It's good to know yourself.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, with something that I have a hard time getting
in touch with normally. But I do think there's a
difference between being optimistic and not being realistic. And I
think too, it's important to realize that we all were
all born with certain dispositions and you can't just flip
a switch. And yes, maybe I came out of the
womb more naturally sunny by nature. I don't know that,
or who knows nature verse nurture. Like, that's a deep

(35:05):
question that we can't really get into on this podcast,
and we would know how to, but that it doesn't
mean that we have no impact on our day to
day viewpoints or that we have no ability to change,
even if we kind of have a natural predilection towards
certain ways of being or thinking. And research finds that
mindset is only about twenty five percent hereditary, which shows
that we all have a reasonable level of control over

(35:25):
our thought life. So, Matt, let's talk about how to
increase our optimism. I think that's really important because we've
seen how it can negatively impact our finances. So how
do we then infuse more optimism into our lives, enabling
it to hopefully help us make more progress in the
realm of money, but in other areas too.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
It's right, Well, the first thing everyone needs to do
is take an ice bath, because that's an activate your
brown no I mean all joking aside exercise and tending
to your physical health, it has profound implications for your
mood for your body, and studies show that folks to
participate in vigorous exercise they tend to be significantly more

(36:03):
optimistic than folks who had lower rates of activity. So,
simply put, what this means is get out there and
lift some weights, maybe get on a rowing machine like Joel.
Simply just go for a hike with a friend and
make those things regular occurrences in your life. Find ways
to just incorporate these into the natural rhythm as opposed
to it being something that you're going to do. You know,

(36:25):
for three weeks at the beginning of the year, and
no surprise that folks who are exercising more not only
are they more optimistic, but these optimists live between eleven
and fifteen percent longer on average. You literally live longer
when you are exercising more when you are more optimistic.
And these folks also show that they stressed about their

(36:47):
finances for one hundred and forty five fewer days compared
to their more pessimistic.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Counterparts, almost half a year. Could you imagine I stressed
about money half as much?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Imagine not thinking about money, which for a lot of
folks is something that just really it's on their mind.
A lot. It stresses them out.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
And I talked about the constant like IQ drain essentially
oh my gosh, like twelve IQ points. So people lose
by being constantly stressed about money. And a part of
that is just a pessimist event that's taken over. Part
of it is a big literally a lack of savings.
But part of it then is the mental belief for
the mental connection they have to them money as well.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Yeah, but yeah, going back to the most very happy
people from the latest Wall Street Journal study that they
did in conjunction with the University of Chicago, it's folks
who are active and so get out there, stay fit.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Makes me think though a pessimist might say, oh, you're
going to live eleven fifteen, eleven to fifteen percent longer.
That means there's more money you got to save for retirement,
so might as the bud right now right or yeah,
but that's where pessimism can take you. And Matt, you
just you kind of hinted at social connections. That's another
thing you can do to increase your your optimism levels.
You said, go on a hike with a friend, And

(37:53):
I do think hanging out more with family, friends and
Neighbors is a pretty darn good piece of advice that
is really going to kind of us in that direction.
There's a new book called Hanging Out, and the author
makes the case for the importance of casual hangs like
I could have anecdotally written. I feel like that's a
book that I could have written right exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Well, I mean, isn't it ridiculous that, Like, on one hand,
I hate that book because it seems kind of intuitive.
You're like, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I need to hang
out with Do we need a book to do this? Yeah?
But that being said that it says a lot about
our society that we need a book like this because
we have so focused on one particular sector of our
lives that we need it spelled out in order to realize,

(38:33):
in order for us to lift our nose from the grindstone.
Like we talked about you already mentioned Simone, we talked
with him on Monday's episode about just creating a more
diversified identity and having friends. Again, seems silly that we
need to that we're saying this out loud, but that's
such an important part of living a joyful and fulfilled life.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Well, and hanging out with people is such a radical
proposition these days that she got interviewed on Ezra Klein
Show like it's it's that apparently insane of an idea
to think that maybe this is going to make us
feel better crazy, And I think it will, right, And
so yeah, I feel like even introverts they need human connection.
And the pandemic just did a number on all of us,
and so figuring out how to rekindle those friendships is

(39:12):
crucial to our future optimism because we're beings meant to
live in community with one another, and meaningful relationships can
turn that roun.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Upside down well, and not only I think hanging out
with friends, but also family. So kind of going back
to some of the studies that we presented at the
beginning of the episode, it's folks who are valuing family,
and I think often what that can also mean is
reaching out to your parents. You're out living on your own,
maybe for the first time, or maybe you're in your thirties,
you've got a kid, and you're basically completely slammed. You're

(39:43):
in that stage of life where you have no margin
when it comes to your schedule at all. It feels
like every second, every minute is being scheduled. But what
that means is prioritizing those relationships, prioritizing family. And I
think that kind of like dovetails with the social connection
that we get from hanging out with friends as well.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So our friend who donated this beer to the show
five Am, Joel, he has like a recurring happy hour
that he does with people on his street and everybody
knows Friday's before it's hang out in Joel's front yard
nice byob So it's not like he has got to
get like his place cleaned up or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Like it's super chill.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
And I think that's a really good, like maybe potential
thing to implement that doesn't put a big burden on
you to create some sort of hangout space. It's literally
just like green light four o'clock, let's go, let's hang,
let's talk, and kids will run around do crazy stuff
to each other. Yeah, it's that's like a good way
to go about it.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
It helps too when you live in la and the
weather's always nice, that's true, you hang out outside in
the front yard. Yeah, but maybe maybe that's an argument
for moving down to the sun belt, like so many
folks are doing these days. But another bit of advice
that we think is going to lead you to becoming
more optimistic is to consume less media, both mainstream and

(40:53):
social media, because I mean, you probably don't want to
be completely ignorant of what's going on out there in
the world, right But the twenty four to seven news cycle,
it hasn't been a good thing for us as a country,
and tuning into it with regularity isn't doing great things
for your outlook on life. In all likelihood, thinking about
politics less that would likely help a great deal a
great number of folks as well. And let's be honest,

(41:15):
it's not like we have the ability to change much
of that anyway. And so that's kind of like the
mainstream national media. But when it comes to social media,
man like delete apps from your phone if you find
yourself doom scrolling late at night and it's a keeping
you from going to sleep on time because you just
keep scrolling and you keep scrolling. But and then on
top of that, you're getting you're blasting yourself not only

(41:37):
with potentially unhealthy content, that's comparing yourself to other people
and the lives of folks who where you're like, oh,
I kind of wish I was abroad or I wish
I was doing what is it like slow travel where
you're living in a country for months at a time.
It's that unhealthy blue light stuff too, right, Yeah, exact,
That's what I was gonna say. Just blasting your brain
like that blue light. It's telling your brain that it's

(41:58):
not time to go to sleep. It's like you do,
put your phone.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Down, it's party time, and it's going to take you
an extra hour of turning and.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Wrestling and it's crappy sleep. And so I mean, I
think it can It sounds silly, but even just charging
your phone in a different room, I think that can
go a long ways. And it's it's something that sounds
like old, like fuddy duddy advice, but I've like, literally,
I think this is something I'm going to start implementing
in my own life because I find myself I'm like, okay,
I'm a scroll for a little bit longer, and before
I know it, like fifteen minutes as a lapse, and

(42:25):
I'm like, dang it, I should already be asleep by now. Yeah. No,
I think that's good. That's good advice.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
And I think so something else this one's gonna sound
a bit woo woo, Matt, which is not normally my vibe.
But imagining good things for your future, I think I
can also help when it comes to becoming more optimistic.
And what I mean is like thinking about what it's
going to be like to achieve your goals. It can
give you the visualization to keep going down the path
of reaching them in here and now and so I
don't know, imagine future you with no credit card debt

(42:50):
and meaningful savings on hand, and how that would significantly
change your life. And it's it's not some sort of
dream it and achieve it thing. I hate stuff like that.
But the way we talk to ourselves matters. It's crazy
important manifested Joel, not that like it's and I don't
know how to say it without like I kind of
tone in this line, right, But so many studies have

(43:11):
found this, like how we talk to ourselves and how
we're able to conceive of our own futures. If we
can think good things about those things, then it's going
to actually help put us on the path in the
right direction. When we can visualize it, it makes us
more motivated than to do the things here and now
that are going to help us actually get there, And
if we keep doubting our ability to make progress, it's
going to directly impact the action actions that we take

(43:32):
or opt not to take.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, But simultaneously, like there's a there's a balance, this
stright between looking ahead to the future and being thankful
for the things that you already have, like the ability
to kind of look back on like your history and
to be thankful for those things. And so that's actually
I think another thing that helps us read more optimism
is to document the good things that we have right now.

(43:54):
This is a practice that we actually we do at
the dinner table every night with our kids, and we
call it like a rose abud in a thorn, And
so what was your rose of the day? What was
the best thing that happened today? What's the bud? What's
the thing you're looking forward to in the future? Is
it camp this summer? Is it a field trip? Like?
Is it the end of school? Is it? Like?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
What is it that you're excited about? And then the thorn, like,
let's talk about the bad things too. Sometimes bad things happen,
and then how can we discuss that in a way
that maybe makes us feel better and kind of turns
that negative, the negative thing that might have happened that day,
into a healing conversation. So I don't know, think that
that's kind of how we practice it. And again maybe
that sounds a lot weird, but I think I think
it's good documenting those good things, like we're we're so

(44:33):
quick to discount those good things or not even like
when someone does something amazing for it's just it's not
just saying thank you that someone made you dinner. I mean,
what does it do for them when you say that,
when you use those words, and then what does it
do for you when you actually acknowledge it?

Speaker 2 (44:47):
M yeah, yeah, And in my mind is it's less
about It's not that we're actively trying to discount things.
It's just that we're just looking ahead. Right. There's a
fine balance between setting goals for yourself and working towards
those things versus constantly only looking for and looking ahead,
which is why I think, like you said, like pausing
for a moment and talking about your day, like looking
to the past, how that can be helpful. A conversation

(45:08):
Kate and I've had recently is like we've noticed that
we don't have many photos like hung up in our house,
and I think one of the things that we're gonna
do is literally print out pictures from our past to
help us to be thankful for where we are now.
It because I think I Kate and I are both
very visual, and I think we need some visual cues
to help us to remember what has happened in the past,

(45:29):
you know, like we need those things to help us
to see that like, oh man, like look, how look
at that tiny apartment that we used to live in.
Can you believe, though, how far we've come? Like yeah,
or look how small the kids were, or like, oh man,
look how unhealthy I was back then, Like I'm in
much better health now. But the ability to reflect upon
those things can make us grateful for the things that

(45:50):
we've achieved in the past. And not only can it
be I think it can also make us a little
more content, perhaps with the life that we're living now.
Like like I almost think by thinking about things that
have happened in the past and by being gracious for
the things that I'm able to live more presently within
the here and now right And so it's not like
you're just completely living in the past, where you're just like, oh, yeah,

(46:11):
the good old days, like where you're hanging out with
a bunch of the high schooluddies or something like. We're
experiencing a lot of the nostalgic craze because we miss
the days of your right. That's why the Super Mario
Brothers movie, even though apparently it wasn't good, like, made
eight hundred million. Oh did it really?

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Because I think we're longing for nostalgic events because we
think that things are better in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
And like, when you think.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
About it, if you could be if someone said I've
got a time machine, where should I transport you back to?
Most of us probably wouldn't choose to go back to
anywhere in the past. I mean, unless like something terrible
has happened in your life. But think about just what.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
We just have such positive emotions about things in the past.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong
with having this. Like I'd like to listen to Third
Eye Blind and be like, oh, the nineties were great,
But it doesn't mean that I want to like live
in that either.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, man, I totally agree, And I think it's important
to point out here that being an optimist This does
not mean ignoring bad things completely, right, Like, I think
we've all met folks out there who will tell you that, like, hey,
it'll be all right, Like don't worry about it at
all the moment after something really bad has happened. Like,
in my mind, that's not necessarily optimism. It's almost avoidance,
where you're just squashing any feelings that you might have.

(47:19):
Optimism isn't about tamping down how it is that you
feel about something. It's really all about putting difficulties that
you encounter in a new light. It's sort of saying
to yourself, Hey, this is an obstacle, this is a hurdle.
It's going to take some extra effort on my part,
but I'm still going to get to where I want
to be. I think it's okay to feel the sheer weight,
the sheer crappiness of a situation. We just don't want
you to sit in that funk for too long. Yeah,

(47:42):
it's okay to recognize those feelings, but then pretty shortly
after that to be like, okay, but again, this is
what I'm working towards, and I need to make sure
that we're taking the steps to get there.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, and right, now collectively as a society, we're stewing
in our own pessimism and it is radically unhealthy. And
so optimism, we would say, is a sort of crazy
when you think about it. It has all these incredible benefits.
And the thing is, the more progress you make, the
more optimistic you start to become. It's the opposite Matt
of what you were talking about earlier, like the terrible
vicious cycle, and it becomes we're now taking those continued

(48:12):
steps in the right direction, breeds even more progress. It's
a it's a virtuous cycle of sorts. Right now, you
know what can be done, and so you keep doing it,
and you start to make progress, and you get energized
by the progress and you keep marching in the right direction.
And I don't think either of us is saying that
optimism is a cure all for poverty or for not
having enough money or for having like no income. Hey

(48:32):
just be happier, right, yeah, Just turn that front upside down,
have a better outlook on life, slap yourself on the button,
keep going. I mean, that's that's not what we're saying here.
But like especially I think in today's day and age,
with what's going.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
On in our culture as a whole.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
We need a message that optimism is warranted and that
it makes a difference.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Share this episode of with three Friends and we will
upload a video of Joel slapping himself on the butt.
All right, man, let's get to the beer that you
and I enjoy during this episode. It's gonna look a
real weird like you smack somebody else on the butt,
like all right, go get them, or like you pat
yourself on the back. But you said pat yourself on
the butt, which in my mind was a very funny picture.

(49:12):
Our beer we enjoyed a stress Dissolver. This was a
BlackBerry sour beer by Common Space. A big things to
our friend Joel out in California for donating this one
to the show.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
What were your thoughts on this one, buddy? So this
was lightly sour. BlackBerry is not usually a berry found
in beers. I feel like it's often raspberries or strawberries
or cherries, but this was blueberry or blueberry, so this
was interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
And yeah, BlackBerry is like lower on the hierarchy of
the different berries that get used in the brewing process.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
They're usually kind of second fiddle right to all the
other beer fitth fiddle. They all shine today though in
this one, and so yeah, no, I liked it was
it was really light for yeah, so it wasn't terribly
terribly tart.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, it wasn't super sourd like it's a sour beer,
but it didn't have like, it wasn't overly acidic.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
It didn't have like that mouth puckering sourness to it
could really still be kind of like a long more beer,
right if you oh yeah, yeah, you know, just kind of.
I know, beer doesn't actually quench your thirst, but it
kind of feels thirst qunching like it.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
And it was effervescent and so it kind of made
it almost made me think of like a BlackBerry soda
all right, Like it was just real clean. It didn't
have any funk, almost like a berlinervice, but without that
weedy chewiness. Yeah that oftentimes finishes out a Berlin advice,
you know, you know, yeah, okay, yeah nice. Yeah, Well
either way, I'm glad, you know, I got to enjoy
this one. It's a very delicious beer to have on

(50:27):
some of these warmer days that we've been experiencing. So
maybe I'll crack one of these and get to cut
my grass right after this episode.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
There you go, all right, sounds nice. Well, thanks everybody
for listening. We always appreciate it. If you want links
to some of the stuff we mentioned, you can find
those up on the show notes at how to money
dot com. And if you want more optimistic money advice,
you can always find that in r how to Money Newsletter,
which comes out every Tuesday morning. You can sign up
for that at how to money dot com slash newsletter.
It's free, by the way, so it's.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Right check it out. But that's gonna be it for
this one, buddy. Until next time, Best friends out, best
Friends Out.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
The