December 1, 2023 • 34 mins
Time for a Friday Flight- our little sampling of the week’s financial news and what it means for your personal finances. There are a lot of headlines out there, but we boil them down to specific takeaways that will allow you to kick off the weekend informed and help you to get ahead with your money. In this episode we explain some relevant and helpful stories like: Spotify wrapped gratitude, good IRS news for gig workers, happiness ain’t cheap, formerly FIRE, bougie babies, fast food inflation, a tipping game plan, avoiding airfare fees, & student loans aren’t a foregone conclusion.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Today we're talking formerly fire, fast food inflation, and happiness.
It doesn't come cheap, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Fast food inflation makes me think of fast food Nation.
Remember did you watch that movie? It was a documentary
that saw supersized Me? But which Wait? Is that the
one I'm thinking of? What's the one where the guy
ate nothing but McDonald's supercise? Does that supersized me? Okay, well,
never mind, Yeah, we're like on day three. Well, the
premise was that anytime they asked him if he wanted
to supersize it, the idea was to say sure, yeah,
(00:50):
and he would have to eat it. And he gave
like thirty pounds. His hell fell apart. Gosh, and like
all of his the measures, the metrics or whatever that
the doctors were following just tanked. But I'm just specifically
thinking when the caloric consumption caught up with him and
they're in the parking lot and he just lost it
day three after eating like a mcgriddle. Do you remember that? Yeah?
Well that has stuck with me and I have yet
(01:12):
to order mcgriddle ever since.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I feel like that was like the first groundbreaking documentary.
Like there were great documentaries out until that point, but
that was like the first cultural crossover documentary where everyone
was like it made the documentary cool again.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I feel like yeah, and it kind of felt like
what is it? It's almost like like a reality TV
show but documentary right, like because it was very self experimental.
That's true. Yeah, anyway, we are going to be talking
about fast food during this episode, dude, real quick though,
before we launch into it, let's take a minute and
recognize all the folks out there who so spotify E're
(01:44):
end rap basically Spotify rap. You're either annoyed by it.
You probably are tired of seeing your friends and what
it is that they're listening to. Okay, everyone listens to
Taylor Swift, I get it, or maybe you're just secretly
jealous because Apple podcast doesn't have that, which if you
are listening, by the way, via Apple podcast, just switch
over to it. Better podcast. I've been I've been going
back to that one. It's better than it used to be.
(02:05):
Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, you've been listening on that well because Google podcast
was my podcastcher and it's going away, and so I'm
trying to like experiment with other ones. I didn't know that,
and I was like, oh, I guess I'll give this
one a shot. And that's what I've been using. It's
actually not too bad.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh my way. Yeah, good for Apple. I mean, I'm
an Apple fanboy, and I've been so critical of it
over the past, like I don't ten years five ten
years because they have poured zero effort into making it
a better app. But glad to hear that it used
to be for sure. Anyway, we have just seen a
lot of folks posting and to see how many folks
have listened to our show man. The number of minutes
(02:38):
in some cases is staggery, Like there's one that you
shared with a bit so do my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, some people are sharing on the Facebook group. They're
sharing on Instagram. But Drew in the Facebook group, Yeah,
listened to how the Money eleven three hundred minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Less year, which is crazy, that's insane, Like year's not
even over, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I feel like we're so we're like the invisible hand
guiding his life. Adam Smith's so.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I did the freaky I did the math on that
eleven thousand minutes. That's a little over thirty minutes every
single day without without missing a beat. I don't know
it's worth mentioning because we know that we have the
best job in the world. But it's good to have
these little reminders that there are actually folks out there
listening to us talk and hopefully making money moves to
better their financial features. It is encouraging and it's humbling
(03:21):
at the same time to see our podcast, our little
green cover art out there next to some of the
best podcasts in the world. Yeah. So just a massive
thanks to all the listeners out there. Seriously, could not
do it without y'all for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
No, it's always always fun to see that at the
end of the year. Thank you guys for sharing and
for listening and for being a part of the h
team community.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
We'll keep it going.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, now, we're gonna keep going. I mean, this is
against job in the world. It's also fun. The big
scope of things. Will keep it going. Not yeah this episode.
Now I'm saying we'll continue making the show. I'm hanging
up the headphones right now, just walking away. No's but yeah,
thank you everyone. Let's move on, thatt Let's get the
Friday flight as sampling of stories we found interesting this week.
Let's start off talking taxes real quick, some inching news.
(04:00):
It's not It's pretty rare that the IRS delivers a
present at the end of the year. Usually it's a
turn wrapped inside a fox.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Or something like that. The tax refund is as good
as it gets typically, Yeah, and even that, you're like,
this is guess that's the money I could have been
hanging on to. Yeah. Time. Yeah, so it's people people overweight.
How good? It's actually fucking me.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But there's good news for users of Venmo, cash app, PayPal,
those payment apps. The IRS is delaying again a somewhat
controversial rule about the reporting of micro payments from these apps,
and so that the threshold for sending a ten ninety
nine K form it was supposed to drop last year
and they scrapped it, and then it was supposed to
drop again this year from twenty thousand to six hundred dollars.
(04:39):
So if you were just like splitting meals and stuff
like that, you could easily cross this threshold and get
a ten ninety nine K and then have to fight
the IRS to say, wait a second, No, this wasn't
a small business. This was like literally just me, like,
you know, paying my friends back. But that has again
been pushed back. And so this means that a lot
of folks who do kind of split the dinner check,
(04:59):
pay for little stuff on Facebook, Marketplace, whatever, stuff like that,
they're not going to be in this uphill battle against
the IRS to prove that they didn't know tax right
on the transactions that went through. And the real reason
for this rule change was to hopefully get side hustlers
to pay taxes right on the transactions that they were receiving,
but then it catches a lot of other people in
the net at the same time. And so it looked
(05:20):
like this messy reality was going to hit early next
year when folks started paying their twenty twenty three taxes,
but the IRS said, nope, not yet. We're we're gonna
hold off on that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
We're gonna delay exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the IRS, they essentially
agreed that this could become a major cluster for not
only them, but with the payment apps themselves, with individual
taxpayers across the country being told that hey, you o
more money in taxes that may not necessarily be legitimate.
And they've said that they need more time to effectively
implement this rule. That makes sense. You want to make
(05:48):
sure you get this right before, Like you said, Yeah,
it's a very wide net that's going to be cast,
and a lot of folks might be necessarily.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Coughed do a scattershot thing here. You're upset a lot
of people. I't just create a lot of hassle for everyone, exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So next year they're going to plan to require taxpayers
with more than five thousand dollars in business transactions to
report income generated via some of these different apps. And
again oftentimes like they're looking at folks who have these
side hustles, who earn a few dollars here and there,
but delaying it makes sense that the IRS move seems
to even have bipartisan support. One Democrat senator said, by
(06:24):
raising the threshold, we can prevent the IRS from interfering
with minor transactions and cut down on excessive paperwork. And
typically that's not the stance of someone on the blue
side of the aisle. But I'm actually I don't know
if I would say that though, I yeah, I don't
know if I would agree that generally speak of Democrats,
the more government involvement, yeah, typically more taxes. But again,
(06:47):
it being bipartisan, they're able to see maybe recognize the
fact that this is going to be a much thornier
issue where we just just to go ahead and pull
the trigger.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
There's a lot of people on that side of the
aisle too, who see the excessive paperwork and the excessive
burden on taxpayers as a problem. So yeah, I think
I'm glad to see that it's a bipartisan issue. Yeah,
exactly to kind of say, way, hold up, irs, this
is this a little too much.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is gonna this is.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Gonna put a lot of pressure, a lot of difficulty
on individual taxpayers across the country, millions and millions of them. Matt,
Let's move on. Let's talk about happiness for a second.
What would make you happier right now?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh? Anything I can do for you? Mo money happiness
saying cheap jo. That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's truly not like this is like the age old question.
I feel like that goes gets batted around in personal
finance circles. And there's every couple of years there's a
new study, new information to share on kind of the
happiness front and how much income or net worth it
takes in order to actually be happy. And there's this
new Empower survey. It found that respondence, with a median
(07:44):
income of sixty five thousand dollars, they said they would
need an income of ninety five thousand dollars in order
to be happy. That's a forty six percent increase, or
at least to feel happy and less stressed, is what
they said. And then even the highest earners in the survey,
those with the income of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
they reported needing a forty percent increase. That's a boost
(08:06):
and paid three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in order
to feel those happiness vibes a little bit more fully, too, right,
And so Matt, this is the definition, in my opinion,
of moving the goalposts right exactly, that happiness comes when
you reach the pot of gold at the end of
the rainbow. And it just goes to show both of
these these people in different earning categories, well, it's always
(08:26):
the answer is always just a little bit more or
in the case of the survey, quite a bit more, right,
forty to forty six percent increase in what you earn.
And I guess we would say aiming to earn more
money is a great goal to have, right, and money
can solve some problems, but the truth is we all
know this. It can't solve them all. And it's also
possible to be so focused on money that you miss
(08:46):
out on the things that really matter. So exactly, I
don't know, I would just guess a word of caution.
Be careful what you believe and what narratives you buy into.
And if you think that a forty percent increase in
your salary is going to make you naturally happier, I've
got news for you. It won't. That's not how it works.
And it's not that earning more money is a bad thing,
but it's just not going to magically turn on this
happiness bigot in your life. That's just not that's not
(09:07):
what money does. I think money reveals more of who
you are, but it does like create more happiness.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
The megaphone for the things that you already believe, for
the things that you already do. So kind of in
conjunction with this, this makes me think of an article
from a few years ago that found that pizza actually
motivates employees more than cash does, which obviously it was.
It's kind of a silly study, sounds pretty absurd on
its face, Like I'm not actually gonna choose, like Pizza
Hut over a twenty dollars bill. Maybe if it was
(09:35):
Antiico or Glide Pizza, some of one of our favorites
here in Atlanta. It's great pizza, then yeah, that's really
motivating to me. But what was at the core that
study was the fact that it's less about money and
it's more about being recognized. It's more about appreciation. Yes,
and certainly pay that is one way to show that appreciation,
but there are other ways that can feel a bit
more tangible. It makes me think of like the meme
(09:57):
of all right, instead of getting a pay this year,
it's a pizza party in But there is some truth
to that, I guess is what we're saying. But employers,
they can save money, I think by taking an outside
of the box approach to incentivizing and to rewarding the
talented folks in their employment. Makes me like, used to
work for Clark Howard at the radio station, and was
(10:17):
it literally every single year that y'all took a year
a trip abroad?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I went to six continents thanks to Clark. It's interesting.
I think if you had said, hey, here's two grand,
or here is the hotel and the flight because he
was always great about booking it on the chief and
stuff like that. I mean, the travel was worth way
more than the money my paycheck would have been.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Hey, you got it at a deal, it was a discount. Yeah,
But b it's not just just that, it's everything that
came along with yet, Like there's like a camaraderie, I'm sure,
building memories. The fact that you would six continents is
pretty major. And how many continents are there? Right right?
He never took me to an article, so you're gonna
maybe do that one day and to be able to
say that is pretty freaking cool.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I mean the truth is, if he had
just given me the money I'm too cheap to have
like probably taking that trip to Europe or South America
or whatever, you'd been.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Like, oh, say that up exactly what the down payment
on the house.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And so I'm not saying it's obviously not true that
more money or a race from your employer doesn't isn't
like a good thing, but in so many ways like
that was far more powerful than more money my paycheck
would have been.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Oh absolutely okay. So on that note, there is a
good profile of our friend Gwen She's been a stalwart
in the fire community for a while, or at least
she was. This Fortune article it detailed her move away
from the intensity and the rigidity of some of the
(11:36):
tenants of fire. And here's a quote. I went at
it really hard, and I saved seventy percent of my income.
That's really high if you're wondering, that's a lot. I
really bought into the hustle culture that is part of society,
and I got really burned out. I just remember going,
why am I trying to save all this money? I
don't look my best. I'm not taking care of myself
as well as I should. What's the point? And we
(11:57):
have heard that from other firefolks. Well, she's not the
only one out there, and so she was able to
shake things up. And what she says now is that
I don't deprive myself unnecessarily anymore. Taking the foot off
the pedal, stepping it back. It really benefited me. It
gave me the flexibility and the ability to say yes
and kind of going to what you're saying, Joel, if
you were so focused on early retirement, you would see
(12:19):
two thousand dollars every single year. As man think of
the opportunity cost. What if I could take that money
stick it in the market, I would have independence, but
independence from what from meaningful work? I guess in this
case for a lot of folks who adhere to the
tenants of fire. By doing that, you're simultaneously saying no
to a lot of things that you would be able
to experience at a younger age. Like you said that
(12:42):
you probably I probably wouldn't have done that. Like dude,
he took me to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
There's no way I would have gone otherwise, right, And
so that's the kind of experience that I'll remember for
the rest of my life. And if it was fifteen
hundred bucks or two thousand bucks in my bank account,
I wouldn't have looked at it nearly the same way,
and it wouldn't have led to the same results.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
We have a lot of friends within the Fire community,
and there is a ton of wisdom that many of
those folks are sharing. The vast majority of folks probably
need to hear more of that. I need to save more.
That is probably the majority of folks. But I will
say I wonder if the majority of our listeners they've
kind of joined the kool aid, they know the good
news of compounding, and they're thinking, I have to find
(13:17):
a way to up my savings rate. But remember when
you strictly adhere to those kind of principles, that's not
necessarily going to help you build the life you want.
You got to use it strategically and not have it
basically completely overshadowy some of your larger goals in life.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, if the life you want is ten years away
from today, then that's too that's too long, that's too
far away. And I'm not saying that doesn't require like
some sacrifice, front loading the sacrifice, like our friend doctor says.
But it's also possible to overdo it like Gwen did.
And I love I love kind of reading that profile
and seeing like how she's come to grips with like, hey,
not all the things I learned are bad, but it's
possible to go too hard and to kind of miss
(13:53):
out on a lot of life along the way because
I bought into this system, this methodology that was just
over the top totally it. We're talked about profiles here matter.
I saw this profile in the New York Times, a
flow from Progressive If you've watched a sporting event or
something you've seen fifteen progressive commercials. You've seen Flow, and
she's done really well for herself financially because of this gig.
(14:13):
And in the middle of that article there's this convo
about money that begins with the interviewer and Stephanie, who
is the actress who plays Flow. She said, it's worth
more than money to feel like you have enough. And
I think that's true. It makes me think of Stage Wisdom, right, Yeah,
it makes me think of Charlie Munger, who passed away
at the ripe old age of ninety nine, just like
an incredible human and an amazing investor. And he one
(14:38):
of my favorite quotes from him, he says, I did
not intend to get rich. I just wanted to get independent,
and so he ended up being incredibly rich as well.
But it said independence really that you desire, and like
we've talked about before in the show, Matt, that financial
independence exists on a spectrum. It's not all or nothing,
and the Fire movement kind of makes it seem like
it's zero or one hundred, and it takes a long
time to get there. And so I think this push
(14:59):
towards independence is a gre great goal and Charlie Munger himself,
and he remained independent until the end, like spouting his
wisdom in the only a way that he could.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
He was a unique individual. So I'm I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Gonna miss him hearing like what he had to say
at the Berkshire Hathaway in investor meetings and stuff like that,
like just calling crypto rap poison. I mean, so many
good quotes from that guy. And maybe we'll put a
link to in the show notes to some of his
best quotes or something like that. But all that to say,
when we're talking about money and happiness, it's so easy
to think that more equals better, and especially like in
(15:30):
the aftermath of Thanksgiving, maybe gratitude for what we have
and maybe seeing things in a different light can actually
help us have a more well balanced take on our finances.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, it is about balance. What we don't want folks
to hear from Charlie Munger where independence is the goal
is because if if you pursue that as the ultimate
goal is such a slippery slope because you can always,
like we were saying earlier, continue to move the goalpost.
And again during that episode that you alluded to, the
financial independence exists on a spectrum. We kind of laid
out how okay, you can be credit card financially independent,
(16:02):
where you got something that comes up in life. You're
no longer relying on your credit cards. That's a good
place to be. But if you continue to look down
that road, you could also be like, oh, I want
to get to where I'm job job independent or job
financially independent, yeah, or career like I don't even need
to work at all anymore. There's always there. It's a
slippery slope, and you could always push things out a
little bit further, which is honestly why I kind of
(16:24):
like flow or what's her name, She's got like two
first names. It's like Courtney, stephan Rachel. But I love
her quality even better because you can find Stephanie. But
finding enough wherever it is that you are, I think
is more important. I think that's something that a lot
of folks can identify with, because I mean, let's be honest,
there are going to be a lot of folks and
(16:45):
the idea of retiring early without social Security that's a
pipe dream for them, and they're they're thinking, well, I'm
never going to be able to achieve that. But you
can still get to the point to where you feel
like you have enough and where you're able to live
a content life. That's what's so great about that mindset,
as opposed to even seeking after independence, which can often
times sound like a very noble goal. But like, one
(17:06):
of the things that sort of bothers me about the
independence thing too, is that it removes yourself from other people.
Like when you're independent, that means you're kind of by yourself,
which can be a lonely place. And oftentimes what is
it that leads to the happiest people. It's meaningful relationships, interdependence,
and it is an ability to like dedicate yourself to
(17:26):
a bigger cause. And both of those cases, it requires
being around other people, it requires not being independent, and
so oftentimes I think folks could actually find happiness without
the independence. Yeah, though it can be a good goal
to have or not saying for folks out there to
be reckless with your spending, I don't want to say
that one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, so uh, And I think the shades of gray
that we try to kind of paint here on the podcast,
it's often not sexy, right, and it's it's not as
like hardlined as a mister money mustache or something like that,
which I've got a lot of respect for that guy,
but I think it's also the best way to proceed right,
kind of talk about things in this holistic fashion. And
when it comes to money, happiness is not found in
a bigger paycheck, and that doesn't mean a bigger paycheck
(18:06):
is evil.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
But yeah, there's a lot more I think we can
talk about on the subject.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, it's one of my favorites because it is so
full of nuanced shades of gray. Was also your favorite movie? Yes, yea, yeah,
and the sequel also great. No, it's either. We've got
more to get to on this episode, including we are
going to talk about fast food inflation and tipping still
remains a thorn in the side of many Americans. We'll
get to our thoughts on both of those and more
(18:31):
right after this.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Right man, we are back. We've got more to get
to today. We're going to talk about travel here, travel
the fees associated with travel. We'll get to that here
in a minute. But first we've got our ludicrous headline
of the week. This one comes from Business Insider, and
the headline read Dior has released a two hundred and
thirty dollars scented water for babies, which, yep, sounds pretty
(19:02):
ridiculous for baby which. So do you wear colone? No?
Think I don't mind cologne like folks who want a
little dab of oil or a little perfume. I'm fine
with that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I wore Abercami Woods back in high school, but it's
been a long time since I've worn any sort.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Of clone that. When they discontinued that, folks were selling
their bottles of that stuff we used on eBay for
top dollars because folks were obsessed with it, right. I
remember talking about that with our friend Trip.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, I think, well, Trip, I think he gave me
like a third of a bottle or something that he
had left over because I don't wear this anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But then I just stopped wearing it, So I'm okay
with that. I'm okay with cologne. If you think about
the soaps and shampoos that we use, I think ninety
five percent of the reason that we choose the different
brains we choose is because of the way they smell. Yeah, Like,
they all basically do the same thing. So what is
it about it that draws us to them?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My wife whould disagree with you on that. I'm with
you on that whole factory. I think those are all
do the same thing in your hair.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
But it's the fact that it's like for babies, Like,
that's the ridiculousness.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well yeah, well it's it's like five x the price
of Colonne or perfume. That's the the other ridiculous build
a scented water for babies. It's like it's a baby tax.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Baby. What baby needs a smell?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I mean, you know they have the natural adorable baby
scent when they're not poopy, right, So yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Think it's But again, why do they smell that way.
It's not because they naturally smell that way. It's because,
you babe, Like babies are like new cars, they just
come with the scent. Yeah, no, okay, anybody right now
imagine what a clean, fresh new baby smells like. Really,
what you're thinking of is either baby powder or Johnson
and Johnson baby washing because they have so ingrained themselves
(20:33):
into our culture and we equate that with cleanliness or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think it's coming out there from one so that
we bond to the baby more. That's I don't have
scientific pheromone exact action going on.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But it's the price point because it's just so much
more expensive than some of the other luxury sense that
they're selling. And that's the part, especially for babies, it
just feels completely out of touch with babies on need
to impress anybody, No, And it's just out of touch
with what most people are dealing with because like you're
like in the weeds, you're in the fog when you
have the baby. You're just trying to like make sure
they're fed, clothes, that they're got a clean diaper. Yeah,
(21:05):
you're not trying to make them smell like the mall,
which is like the last thing that I would want
my kids to smell like. BA.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So I mean, it's easy, easily qualified for ludcros headline
of the Week this week because do not buy your
baby just scented water to put on them to make
them smell better. They already smell great, they're already adorable.
They've got enough going for them in the positive category.
This is just absurd, out of the top. But what
else would you'd expect, I guess from a fragrance maker
who specializes in luxury fragrances. It's like, let's expand the
(21:32):
market and get it on all that hot newborn category.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
To get these babes smell like white musk, right, that
was one of the one of the descriptors. Yeah, what
is that? I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It's better than smell like elon musk. I guess at
least this week he does smell so great. But let's
move on, thatt, let's talk about food inflation. If we're talking,
we're talking about expensive crap. Let's keep going down that
down in that vein. There was an article on Business
Insider about how fast food isn't cheap anymore, and prices
at McDonald's are up ten percent this year, following a
ten percent increase last year too, and the value section
(22:03):
of the menu at McDonald's it's not all that great either.
McDonald's and most of these fast food restaurants have essentially
eliminated all one dollar items, like you can't find anything
that cheap anymore. Which, let's be honest, what food food
item that's totally hot and freshly prepaired should cost a dollar.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's a little scary. Back in the day, there's an
argument to be like twenty years ago, sure you get
you know, get a cheeseburger or something like that for
ninety nine centsmore. In college, I would get the you
could get like the thing at Chili you get a
baked potato. You remember that well? I remember maybe im
thinking of Windy's.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Either way, maybe I was in middle school, but they
had mcconais had like twenty nine and thirty nine percent
hamburgers and cheeseburgers on like Wednesday nights or something like that.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, old, are you very old? Twenty nine hammers period
went down in the five and dollars in the movies
for our quarter Cochlers and nickel.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, no, not white, but yeah, it's just interesting to
see this in the CPI data reflects that it's just
so much more expensive to eat out than it even
is to buy groceries. We've lamented how expensive it it
has gotten to get groceries, but when you look at
the data, year over year, food at home has gone
up two point one percent and eating out has gone
up six point four percent, And so prices. Yeah, they're
(23:08):
up at Kroger, they're up at publics, they're up at
Whole Foods wherever you shop, but they're not up nearly
as much as they are at your favorite restaurant. And
this is not an attempt to judge your eating habits.
If you're like a Warren Buffett going McDonald's every single
day of your life.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Do your thing.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Obviously he's in his ninety so he's doing just fine.
But this data is helpful when we're thinking about our
budget and how our eating habits affect what we're able
to save and invest.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And it comes down to lifestyle and what you went
your life to look like, right, because like I'm thinking
of like the occasional big Mac or even though once
a week latte, that's not going to make or break
your ability to retire or anything like that. But the
more we partake it is going to have a larger
and larger impact on our finances and on our arteries. Yes,
and as prices rise, we I think we should probably
reconsider some of our habits. It's not the worst thing
(23:54):
to do occasionally, but so many folks just find themselves
eating fast food on the rag and it might seem cheap,
but in reality it's not, as those leftovers are way cheaper.
Wait chiber Man, and I just hear so many folks
blame their fast food runs on busyness. But just like
everything else out there, we are going to prioritize the
things that we actually care about in meal planning. It
is going to be a lifesaver if you are looking
(24:16):
for inspiration. I'd certainly understand there are going to be
certain seasons in life where you know what, let's just
swing by, let's just pick up some fast food. But
even then there are other healthier, more affordable options too,
like even just swinging by Costco, grabbing one of his chickens,
pulling that thing apart, throwing that on some salad. Like
that's literally something we did earlier this week when we
were pressed for time. It was a busy week. But
that is a way that you can not only eat
(24:37):
a little more healthy, but find a way to save
some money as well.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
If you're in the northern suburbs of Atlanta and you
see someone in a gray vand just going to town
on a whole roads, just true chicken, that's Matt.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
You'll starts macking on the wings like they're in the store.
He'll crack that plastic tub open. I've seen him do it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I've always thought that was a faux pas eating the
food in the store before you check out like, I
know some people do it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
But cool, No, I'm not done with it. By the way,
budget bites, we've had Beth Month's on the show before,
but she has some amazing recipes A way to cook
at home for less money. We can link to the
interview we had her. Was it like maybe two years
ago we let her on the show.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Batch cooking is another thing that's overlooked somebody, like, yeah,
cooking extra stuff, freezing it so that it's easy to
reheat later on, whether that's for lunches, whether that's because
you're going on a road trip, or what's.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Part of doing of smoking. Yeah, literally today for lunch,
I had some leftover brisket, and you know what you
kind of get over brisketed with like the week after
you do a pork butter or a brisket something like
that on the weekend. And what we've started doing is
we'll just slice a big hunk of it off stick
in the freezer, portion it out into separate meals, and dude,
pop out thin in the microwave. You start smelling it
(25:41):
and all of a sudden, it's like I've never had
it before.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, it's like, what is this food, I mean not
much tops stress for sure. On the note of food nout,
let's talk about tipping. There's new research from Pew and
they found that Americans say that tipping is expected in
more places, but then they also don't feel confident about
when and how to.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
They're not alone. I feel that too. I'm like, still
I have.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Even though I've kind of developed some rules for how
I tip, how much I tip, and where I tip,
there's still the awkwardness, the sweaty awkwardness of having the
iPad turned around, that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Moment of panic.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, the service worker is just like smiling at you, yeah,
and you're like stuff looking at me. You feel like
you're under one of those heat lamps, right, or like
you're in like the being grilled by a cop or
something like that. But I feel like the tip suggestions
can be wildly overdone, and so suggestions that are also
kind of tough to come up against. I'm always amazed
when a counter service places suggest a twenty to twenty
five percent tip or a thirty percent tip. I'm more
(26:35):
than willing to work over that much at a sit
down restaurant, but at a local barbecue joint where like
they call my name and I go pick up my
own food. Sorry, it feels a little different, not willing
to do that. So I guess my suggestion here is
just like come up with your own tipping philosophy ahead
of time. Maybe it's a flat one dollar for a coffee,
ten percent for counter service, than twenty to thirty percent
(26:55):
for sit down restaurants based on how the service is.
Those are just like rough guidelines, But knowing what you're
willing to tip ahead of time helps to eliminate some.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Of that awkwardness.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And then you know potentially even forking over more than
you had planned to do in the moment. And that
there are even like stories out there of you're at
a kiosk at the airport and there's no actual human
that has helped you and you want to tip, you're
still asked for a tip, which just boggles my mind.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I will say I think sometimes that like if you
walk up to order a coffee, they've got like the
like twenty percent or even twenty five percent can be
the default because you're just getting a coffee, and so
like like in those cases, whether it's like getting a
coffee or a beer, I'm totally fine with saying, all right,
no matter what, I'm going to give a dollar. Yeah,
because it's sort of the minimum viable. When I started
drinking in my younger day, like I was paying with cash,
(27:41):
and so the ability just to always leave a dollar,
I don't know in my mind that has carried over
to all right, I'm always going to leave a dollar
at least when I order a beer or get a
coffee someway, but a quarder it just feels chinsy. Yeah,
let's talk about travel, because airlines they're going to make
record amounts of money this year in fees one hundred
and eighteen billion dollars to be exact. There's a fee
(28:02):
for basically everything when you're buying airfare these days, especially
with the big discount airlines. But we're talking about extra
money for signed seats, check bags, food, even travel insurance.
There's just still so much competition when it comes to
ticket pricing that airlines are trying to find other ways
to increase their their revenue. The ancillaries is what they
(28:22):
call them. And while we're typically fee averse, I actually
don't mind this model. I think we've kind of touched
on this before, but it allows frugal flyers out there
to save big dollars. By getting the lowest possible ticket
and then jumping through the hoops, you avoid some of
those additional costs. It makes me think back to like
even when I was a kid, Joel, I never flew anywhere,
Like think back to like, did you fly anywhere as
(28:45):
a kid? Twice? As a kid? Wrong? You got in
the station wagon or the Mini Vare you piled in
and we're gonna drive there as a family? And I
play them Ontana Mom, like yes, Or if you're younger,
ask your parents, because that was the reality. I doubt
that they hardly ever flew anywhere. And it's because you
had to be like rich and famous to fly somewhere.
It was more out of the reach press up to
(29:05):
fly yes, because it was a big deal. It is
now within reach of so many more people, and for that,
I love it. I love that folks can travel to
go see family, to go have fun, just just to
go explore a new city to take advantage of a deal.
But what that means for us as individuals is we've
got to be more savvy when it comes to some
of the different fees out there. Make the upgrade if
you want to, but just realize you don't have to,
(29:27):
and there are ways to get those airfares low without
we're talking about tipping. You shouldn't feel guilt when it
comes to like upgrading your seat. Like even with like Southwest,
there's like four options of like, oh shoot, you got
me in here because I saw the low low price,
and now there's three options that are more expensive on
the same exact flight in order to what is it
to like board sooner some of the other some of
(29:48):
the other things there.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But now I never pay for any of that crap. No,
And like, more power to you if you care about that.
I got enough friendly disagreement with a relative over Thanksgiving
on this very thing. They're like I hate the super discounter.
It's like they make you do all this stuff, and
I'm like, we're so fortunate they exist because they lower
prices on all the other airlines. And if you don't
do it, if you don't want to, if you prefer
convenience and you want to pay more, go for it.
(30:09):
But like just the fact the fact that they exist
and you cannot do that, and you can jump through
hoops and you can fly across the country for like
sixty bucks around trip.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's incredible, it's amazing. It's it's truly.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Revolutionary for how we get around. And so yeah, these fees,
I think actually allow us to partake in ridiculously discount
of travel. You just have to know what those fees are,
know how to avoid them, and know which airlines charge
which fees. That's easy to look up. It doesn't mean
it's not annoying, because it usually is. Like you know,
I hear people fly in Spirit. I still haven't flown Spirit.
(30:40):
It's on my to do list, but like it's not bad.
Yeah that you got to like stick your because you
just recently flew on Spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
We did Frontier and they can do the same thing
where they make you. Yeah, they'll they'll question your bag,
if they'll look if your bags looking pretty large, they're like,
all right, stick it in the little They're not doing
that at Delta metal crate and you're paying one like
shoving it down. Yeah, you got to make this thing fit.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So just a note like fees usually suck, but fees
in the right context and then working to avoid those
fees can actually help you save money.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I will say, by the way Frontier I was actually
very surprised how nice it was. It was a very
pleasant experience. Aside from having to I did have to
check my not check my bag. I had to prove
that it wasn't too big. All right, that's fine, just
don't make me pay more for it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, I got two airlines I need to try. Now,
let's send it on a high note, Matt. After that
conversation with Tina the FAFSA guru, this week, there's this
great article from Michelle Singletary over at the Washington Post
and it was titled I didn't go to my dream school.
Now I'm living debt free. So it was thrilled to
see that. And Michelle, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
She's awesome. She's been on the show before.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
She's always just all about saving money, and she's just
spot on in her reporting here, Like, we don't want
to blow up the dreams of high school students, but
attending a school that's closer to your home or that
offers you far more money and financial aid that can
massively increase your life satisfaction in those early post grad years.
I think so many people it just sounds so nice
to go to the dream school, even if it means
(32:03):
taking on tens of thousands of dollars additionally in student
loan debt, but that ultimately leads to a lot more
difficult years post graduation and not necessarily a massive uptick inexperience.
We'd say, having little to no student loan debt takes
this massive weight off your shoulders totally. And I loved
what Michelle said. She said she wouldn't even allow her
(32:23):
kids to consider taking out student loans. It was off
the table. It was not a conversation that she was
willing to have, which is hardcore. That's an extreme stance,
potentially more hardcore than I'm gonna be with my own kiddos.
I think I would be willing to let my children
make them Like I'm going to talk with them about it. Yeah,
I want to, like, we're gonna lay it out, we're
gonna excel is going to be involved, and we're gonna
have forecasting models to show what you could instead do
(32:44):
with that money. But I think like at some point
they're adults and you kind of want to want them
to make their own decisions. Yeah, the hard no feels
a little extreme, but I get it. If they're still
living under your roof and stuff like you're you're like, hey,
that's not an option, But I agree. I would like
rather help teach them, show them all the options, show
them how bad it can be. Then I'm gonna have
my figures on the scale.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
But I want them build pul make the decision you're
gonna have to sleep in the bed that you're making
right with this decision. But yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And I think it's especially hard to this time of year,
with like college football season in full gear. We're at
my in laws over the holidays. College football is on
and you see people walking around town. They've got their
you know, their sport and whatever school it is that
they're supporting. That can have such an impact on sort
(33:28):
of the mindset. I think of of high school seniors
who are looking to the different schools and they see
that culture and they want to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Maybe he doesn't want to go to the University of
Oregon with those dope uniforms.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
But when you again, you are basically forfeiting so much
of your future by settling yourself with so much debt.
And it would be different if you're getting something like
extremely better that's going to produce greater results for you
over the long run. But most of the time, it's
like you're just often the case man.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
You're just going to get the communications or the business degree.
And you know what, even though that school is more
attractive to you, it doesn't mean that the degree is
more attractive to a future employer.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, you're you're buying into a brand at that point.
It makes me think of the scented baby water. Yeah,
like you're you're just in love with the idea of this,
But buddy, that's gonna be it for this Friday flight.
Listeners can find all of the different articles and stories
we may have referenced in our show notes up on
the website at howtomoney dot com. No doubt, all
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Right, but until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Today we're talking formerly fire, fast food inflation, and happiness.
It doesn't come cheap, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Fast food inflation makes me think of fast food Nation.
Remember did you watch that movie? It was a documentary
that saw supersized Me? But which Wait? Is that the
one I'm thinking of? What's the one where the guy
ate nothing but McDonald's supercise? Does that supersized me? Okay, well,
never mind, Yeah, we're like on day three. Well, the
premise was that anytime they asked him if he wanted
to supersize it, the idea was to say sure, yeah,
(00:50):
and he would have to eat it. And he gave
like thirty pounds. His hell fell apart. Gosh, and like
all of his the measures, the metrics or whatever that
the doctors were following just tanked. But I'm just specifically
thinking when the caloric consumption caught up with him and
they're in the parking lot and he just lost it
day three after eating like a mcgriddle. Do you remember that? Yeah?
Well that has stuck with me and I have yet
(01:12):
to order mcgriddle ever since.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I feel like that was like the first groundbreaking documentary.
Like there were great documentaries out until that point, but
that was like the first cultural crossover documentary where everyone
was like it made the documentary cool again.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I feel like yeah, and it kind of felt like
what is it? It's almost like like a reality TV
show but documentary right, like because it was very self experimental.
That's true. Yeah, anyway, we are going to be talking
about fast food during this episode, dude, real quick though,
before we launch into it, let's take a minute and
recognize all the folks out there who so spotify E're
(01:44):
end rap basically Spotify rap. You're either annoyed by it.
You probably are tired of seeing your friends and what
it is that they're listening to. Okay, everyone listens to
Taylor Swift, I get it, or maybe you're just secretly
jealous because Apple podcast doesn't have that, which if you
are listening, by the way, via Apple podcast, just switch
over to it. Better podcast. I've been I've been going
back to that one. It's better than it used to be.
(02:05):
Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, you've been listening on that well because Google podcast
was my podcastcher and it's going away, and so I'm
trying to like experiment with other ones. I didn't know that,
and I was like, oh, I guess I'll give this
one a shot. And that's what I've been using. It's
actually not too bad.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh my way. Yeah, good for Apple. I mean, I'm
an Apple fanboy, and I've been so critical of it
over the past, like I don't ten years five ten
years because they have poured zero effort into making it
a better app. But glad to hear that it used
to be for sure. Anyway, we have just seen a
lot of folks posting and to see how many folks
have listened to our show man. The number of minutes
(02:38):
in some cases is staggery, Like there's one that you
shared with a bit so do my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, some people are sharing on the Facebook group. They're
sharing on Instagram. But Drew in the Facebook group, Yeah,
listened to how the Money eleven three hundred minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Less year, which is crazy, that's insane, Like year's not
even over, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I feel like we're so we're like the invisible hand
guiding his life. Adam Smith's so.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I did the freaky I did the math on that
eleven thousand minutes. That's a little over thirty minutes every
single day without without missing a beat. I don't know
it's worth mentioning because we know that we have the
best job in the world. But it's good to have
these little reminders that there are actually folks out there
listening to us talk and hopefully making money moves to
better their financial features. It is encouraging and it's humbling
(03:21):
at the same time to see our podcast, our little
green cover art out there next to some of the
best podcasts in the world. Yeah. So just a massive
thanks to all the listeners out there. Seriously, could not
do it without y'all for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
No, it's always always fun to see that at the
end of the year. Thank you guys for sharing and
for listening and for being a part of the h
team community.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
We'll keep it going.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, now, we're gonna keep going. I mean, this is
against job in the world. It's also fun. The big
scope of things. Will keep it going. Not yeah this episode.
Now I'm saying we'll continue making the show. I'm hanging
up the headphones right now, just walking away. No's but yeah,
thank you everyone. Let's move on, thatt Let's get the
Friday flight as sampling of stories we found interesting this week.
Let's start off talking taxes real quick, some inching news.
(04:00):
It's not It's pretty rare that the IRS delivers a
present at the end of the year. Usually it's a
turn wrapped inside a fox.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Or something like that. The tax refund is as good
as it gets typically, Yeah, and even that, you're like,
this is guess that's the money I could have been
hanging on to. Yeah. Time. Yeah, so it's people people overweight.
How good? It's actually fucking me.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
But there's good news for users of Venmo, cash app, PayPal,
those payment apps. The IRS is delaying again a somewhat
controversial rule about the reporting of micro payments from these apps,
and so that the threshold for sending a ten ninety
nine K form it was supposed to drop last year
and they scrapped it, and then it was supposed to
drop again this year from twenty thousand to six hundred dollars.
(04:39):
So if you were just like splitting meals and stuff
like that, you could easily cross this threshold and get
a ten ninety nine K and then have to fight
the IRS to say, wait a second, No, this wasn't
a small business. This was like literally just me, like,
you know, paying my friends back. But that has again
been pushed back. And so this means that a lot
of folks who do kind of split the dinner check,
(04:59):
pay for little stuff on Facebook, Marketplace, whatever, stuff like that,
they're not going to be in this uphill battle against
the IRS to prove that they didn't know tax right
on the transactions that went through. And the real reason
for this rule change was to hopefully get side hustlers
to pay taxes right on the transactions that they were receiving,
but then it catches a lot of other people in
the net at the same time. And so it looked
(05:20):
like this messy reality was going to hit early next
year when folks started paying their twenty twenty three taxes,
but the IRS said, nope, not yet. We're we're gonna
hold off on that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
We're gonna delay exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the IRS, they essentially
agreed that this could become a major cluster for not
only them, but with the payment apps themselves, with individual
taxpayers across the country being told that hey, you o
more money in taxes that may not necessarily be legitimate.
And they've said that they need more time to effectively
implement this rule. That makes sense. You want to make
(05:48):
sure you get this right before, Like you said, Yeah,
it's a very wide net that's going to be cast,
and a lot of folks might be necessarily.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Coughed do a scattershot thing here. You're upset a lot
of people. I't just create a lot of hassle for everyone, exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So next year they're going to plan to require taxpayers
with more than five thousand dollars in business transactions to
report income generated via some of these different apps. And
again oftentimes like they're looking at folks who have these
side hustles, who earn a few dollars here and there,
but delaying it makes sense that the IRS move seems
to even have bipartisan support. One Democrat senator said, by
(06:24):
raising the threshold, we can prevent the IRS from interfering
with minor transactions and cut down on excessive paperwork. And
typically that's not the stance of someone on the blue
side of the aisle. But I'm actually I don't know
if I would say that though, I yeah, I don't
know if I would agree that generally speak of Democrats,
the more government involvement, yeah, typically more taxes. But again,
(06:47):
it being bipartisan, they're able to see maybe recognize the
fact that this is going to be a much thornier
issue where we just just to go ahead and pull
the trigger.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
There's a lot of people on that side of the
aisle too, who see the excessive paperwork and the excessive
burden on taxpayers as a problem. So yeah, I think
I'm glad to see that it's a bipartisan issue. Yeah,
exactly to kind of say, way, hold up, irs, this
is this a little too much.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is gonna this is.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Gonna put a lot of pressure, a lot of difficulty
on individual taxpayers across the country, millions and millions of them. Matt,
Let's move on. Let's talk about happiness for a second.
What would make you happier right now?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh? Anything I can do for you? Mo money happiness
saying cheap jo. That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's truly not like this is like the age old question.
I feel like that goes gets batted around in personal
finance circles. And there's every couple of years there's a
new study, new information to share on kind of the
happiness front and how much income or net worth it
takes in order to actually be happy. And there's this
new Empower survey. It found that respondence, with a median
(07:44):
income of sixty five thousand dollars, they said they would
need an income of ninety five thousand dollars in order
to be happy. That's a forty six percent increase, or
at least to feel happy and less stressed, is what
they said. And then even the highest earners in the survey,
those with the income of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
they reported needing a forty percent increase. That's a boost
(08:06):
and paid three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in order
to feel those happiness vibes a little bit more fully, too, right,
And so Matt, this is the definition, in my opinion,
of moving the goalposts right exactly, that happiness comes when
you reach the pot of gold at the end of
the rainbow. And it just goes to show both of
these these people in different earning categories, well, it's always
(08:26):
the answer is always just a little bit more or
in the case of the survey, quite a bit more, right,
forty to forty six percent increase in what you earn.
And I guess we would say aiming to earn more
money is a great goal to have, right, and money
can solve some problems, but the truth is we all
know this. It can't solve them all. And it's also
possible to be so focused on money that you miss
(08:46):
out on the things that really matter. So exactly, I
don't know, I would just guess a word of caution.
Be careful what you believe and what narratives you buy into.
And if you think that a forty percent increase in
your salary is going to make you naturally happier, I've
got news for you. It won't. That's not how it works.
And it's not that earning more money is a bad thing,
but it's just not going to magically turn on this
happiness bigot in your life. That's just not that's not
(09:07):
what money does. I think money reveals more of who
you are, but it does like create more happiness.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
The megaphone for the things that you already believe, for
the things that you already do. So kind of in
conjunction with this, this makes me think of an article
from a few years ago that found that pizza actually
motivates employees more than cash does, which obviously it was.
It's kind of a silly study, sounds pretty absurd on
its face, Like I'm not actually gonna choose, like Pizza
Hut over a twenty dollars bill. Maybe if it was
(09:35):
Antiico or Glide Pizza, some of one of our favorites
here in Atlanta. It's great pizza, then yeah, that's really
motivating to me. But what was at the core that
study was the fact that it's less about money and
it's more about being recognized. It's more about appreciation. Yes,
and certainly pay that is one way to show that appreciation,
but there are other ways that can feel a bit
more tangible. It makes me think of like the meme
(09:57):
of all right, instead of getting a pay this year,
it's a pizza party in But there is some truth
to that, I guess is what we're saying. But employers,
they can save money, I think by taking an outside
of the box approach to incentivizing and to rewarding the
talented folks in their employment. Makes me like, used to
work for Clark Howard at the radio station, and was
(10:17):
it literally every single year that y'all took a year
a trip abroad?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I went to six continents thanks to Clark. It's interesting.
I think if you had said, hey, here's two grand,
or here is the hotel and the flight because he
was always great about booking it on the chief and
stuff like that. I mean, the travel was worth way
more than the money my paycheck would have been.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Hey, you got it at a deal, it was a discount. Yeah,
But b it's not just just that, it's everything that
came along with yet, Like there's like a camaraderie, I'm sure,
building memories. The fact that you would six continents is
pretty major. And how many continents are there? Right right?
He never took me to an article, so you're gonna
maybe do that one day and to be able to
say that is pretty freaking cool.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I mean the truth is, if he had
just given me the money I'm too cheap to have
like probably taking that trip to Europe or South America
or whatever, you'd been.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Like, oh, say that up exactly what the down payment
on the house.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And so I'm not saying it's obviously not true that
more money or a race from your employer doesn't isn't
like a good thing, but in so many ways like
that was far more powerful than more money my paycheck
would have been.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Oh absolutely okay. So on that note, there is a
good profile of our friend Gwen She's been a stalwart
in the fire community for a while, or at least
she was. This Fortune article it detailed her move away
from the intensity and the rigidity of some of the
(11:36):
tenants of fire. And here's a quote. I went at
it really hard, and I saved seventy percent of my income.
That's really high if you're wondering, that's a lot. I
really bought into the hustle culture that is part of society,
and I got really burned out. I just remember going,
why am I trying to save all this money? I
don't look my best. I'm not taking care of myself
as well as I should. What's the point? And we
(11:57):
have heard that from other firefolks. Well, she's not the
only one out there, and so she was able to
shake things up. And what she says now is that
I don't deprive myself unnecessarily anymore. Taking the foot off
the pedal, stepping it back. It really benefited me. It
gave me the flexibility and the ability to say yes
and kind of going to what you're saying, Joel, if
you were so focused on early retirement, you would see
(12:19):
two thousand dollars every single year. As man think of
the opportunity cost. What if I could take that money
stick it in the market, I would have independence, but
independence from what from meaningful work? I guess in this
case for a lot of folks who adhere to the
tenants of fire. By doing that, you're simultaneously saying no
to a lot of things that you would be able
to experience at a younger age. Like you said that
(12:42):
you probably I probably wouldn't have done that. Like dude,
he took me to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
There's no way I would have gone otherwise, right, And
so that's the kind of experience that I'll remember for
the rest of my life. And if it was fifteen
hundred bucks or two thousand bucks in my bank account,
I wouldn't have looked at it nearly the same way,
and it wouldn't have led to the same results.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
We have a lot of friends within the Fire community,
and there is a ton of wisdom that many of
those folks are sharing. The vast majority of folks probably
need to hear more of that. I need to save more.
That is probably the majority of folks. But I will
say I wonder if the majority of our listeners they've
kind of joined the kool aid, they know the good
news of compounding, and they're thinking, I have to find
(13:17):
a way to up my savings rate. But remember when
you strictly adhere to those kind of principles, that's not
necessarily going to help you build the life you want.
You got to use it strategically and not have it
basically completely overshadowy some of your larger goals in life.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, if the life you want is ten years away
from today, then that's too that's too long, that's too
far away. And I'm not saying that doesn't require like
some sacrifice, front loading the sacrifice, like our friend doctor says.
But it's also possible to overdo it like Gwen did.
And I love I love kind of reading that profile
and seeing like how she's come to grips with like, hey,
not all the things I learned are bad, but it's
possible to go too hard and to kind of miss
(13:53):
out on a lot of life along the way because
I bought into this system, this methodology that was just
over the top totally it. We're talked about profiles here matter.
I saw this profile in the New York Times, a
flow from Progressive If you've watched a sporting event or
something you've seen fifteen progressive commercials. You've seen Flow, and
she's done really well for herself financially because of this gig.
(14:13):
And in the middle of that article there's this convo
about money that begins with the interviewer and Stephanie, who
is the actress who plays Flow. She said, it's worth
more than money to feel like you have enough. And
I think that's true. It makes me think of Stage Wisdom, right, Yeah,
it makes me think of Charlie Munger, who passed away
at the ripe old age of ninety nine, just like
an incredible human and an amazing investor. And he one
(14:38):
of my favorite quotes from him, he says, I did
not intend to get rich. I just wanted to get independent,
and so he ended up being incredibly rich as well.
But it said independence really that you desire, and like
we've talked about before in the show, Matt, that financial
independence exists on a spectrum. It's not all or nothing,
and the Fire movement kind of makes it seem like
it's zero or one hundred, and it takes a long
time to get there. And so I think this push
(14:59):
towards independence is a gre great goal and Charlie Munger himself,
and he remained independent until the end, like spouting his
wisdom in the only a way that he could.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
He was a unique individual. So I'm I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Gonna miss him hearing like what he had to say
at the Berkshire Hathaway in investor meetings and stuff like that,
like just calling crypto rap poison. I mean, so many
good quotes from that guy. And maybe we'll put a
link to in the show notes to some of his
best quotes or something like that. But all that to say,
when we're talking about money and happiness, it's so easy
to think that more equals better, and especially like in
(15:30):
the aftermath of Thanksgiving, maybe gratitude for what we have
and maybe seeing things in a different light can actually
help us have a more well balanced take on our finances.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, it is about balance. What we don't want folks
to hear from Charlie Munger where independence is the goal
is because if if you pursue that as the ultimate
goal is such a slippery slope because you can always,
like we were saying earlier, continue to move the goalpost.
And again during that episode that you alluded to, the
financial independence exists on a spectrum. We kind of laid
out how okay, you can be credit card financially independent,
(16:02):
where you got something that comes up in life. You're
no longer relying on your credit cards. That's a good
place to be. But if you continue to look down
that road, you could also be like, oh, I want
to get to where I'm job job independent or job
financially independent, yeah, or career like I don't even need
to work at all anymore. There's always there. It's a
slippery slope, and you could always push things out a
little bit further, which is honestly why I kind of
(16:24):
like flow or what's her name, She's got like two
first names. It's like Courtney, stephan Rachel. But I love
her quality even better because you can find Stephanie. But
finding enough wherever it is that you are, I think
is more important. I think that's something that a lot
of folks can identify with, because I mean, let's be honest,
there are going to be a lot of folks and
(16:45):
the idea of retiring early without social Security that's a
pipe dream for them, and they're they're thinking, well, I'm
never going to be able to achieve that. But you
can still get to the point to where you feel
like you have enough and where you're able to live
a content life. That's what's so great about that mindset,
as opposed to even seeking after independence, which can often
times sound like a very noble goal. But like, one
(17:06):
of the things that sort of bothers me about the
independence thing too, is that it removes yourself from other people.
Like when you're independent, that means you're kind of by yourself,
which can be a lonely place. And oftentimes what is
it that leads to the happiest people. It's meaningful relationships, interdependence,
and it is an ability to like dedicate yourself to
(17:26):
a bigger cause. And both of those cases, it requires
being around other people, it requires not being independent, and
so oftentimes I think folks could actually find happiness without
the independence. Yeah, though it can be a good goal
to have or not saying for folks out there to
be reckless with your spending, I don't want to say
that one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, so uh, And I think the shades of gray
that we try to kind of paint here on the podcast,
it's often not sexy, right, and it's it's not as
like hardlined as a mister money mustache or something like that,
which I've got a lot of respect for that guy,
but I think it's also the best way to proceed right,
kind of talk about things in this holistic fashion. And
when it comes to money, happiness is not found in
a bigger paycheck, and that doesn't mean a bigger paycheck
(18:06):
is evil.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
But yeah, there's a lot more I think we can
talk about on the subject.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, it's one of my favorites because it is so
full of nuanced shades of gray. Was also your favorite movie? Yes, yea, yeah,
and the sequel also great. No, it's either. We've got
more to get to on this episode, including we are
going to talk about fast food inflation and tipping still
remains a thorn in the side of many Americans. We'll
get to our thoughts on both of those and more
(18:31):
right after this.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Right man, we are back. We've got more to get
to today. We're going to talk about travel here, travel
the fees associated with travel. We'll get to that here
in a minute. But first we've got our ludicrous headline
of the week. This one comes from Business Insider, and
the headline read Dior has released a two hundred and
thirty dollars scented water for babies, which, yep, sounds pretty
(19:02):
ridiculous for baby which. So do you wear colone? No?
Think I don't mind cologne like folks who want a
little dab of oil or a little perfume. I'm fine
with that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I wore Abercami Woods back in high school, but it's
been a long time since I've worn any sort.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Of clone that. When they discontinued that, folks were selling
their bottles of that stuff we used on eBay for
top dollars because folks were obsessed with it, right. I
remember talking about that with our friend Trip.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, I think, well, Trip, I think he gave me
like a third of a bottle or something that he
had left over because I don't wear this anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But then I just stopped wearing it, So I'm okay
with that. I'm okay with cologne. If you think about
the soaps and shampoos that we use, I think ninety
five percent of the reason that we choose the different
brains we choose is because of the way they smell. Yeah, Like,
they all basically do the same thing. So what is
it about it that draws us to them?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My wife whould disagree with you on that. I'm with
you on that whole factory. I think those are all
do the same thing in your hair.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
But it's the fact that it's like for babies, Like,
that's the ridiculousness.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well yeah, well it's it's like five x the price
of Colonne or perfume. That's the the other ridiculous build
a scented water for babies. It's like it's a baby tax.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Baby. What baby needs a smell?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I mean, you know they have the natural adorable baby
scent when they're not poopy, right, So yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Think it's But again, why do they smell that way.
It's not because they naturally smell that way. It's because,
you babe, Like babies are like new cars, they just
come with the scent. Yeah, no, okay, anybody right now
imagine what a clean, fresh new baby smells like. Really,
what you're thinking of is either baby powder or Johnson
and Johnson baby washing because they have so ingrained themselves
(20:33):
into our culture and we equate that with cleanliness or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think it's coming out there from one so that
we bond to the baby more. That's I don't have
scientific pheromone exact action going on.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But it's the price point because it's just so much
more expensive than some of the other luxury sense that
they're selling. And that's the part, especially for babies, it
just feels completely out of touch with babies on need
to impress anybody, No, And it's just out of touch
with what most people are dealing with because like you're
like in the weeds, you're in the fog when you
have the baby. You're just trying to like make sure
they're fed, clothes, that they're got a clean diaper. Yeah,
(21:05):
you're not trying to make them smell like the mall,
which is like the last thing that I would want
my kids to smell like. BA.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So I mean, it's easy, easily qualified for ludcros headline
of the Week this week because do not buy your
baby just scented water to put on them to make
them smell better. They already smell great, they're already adorable.
They've got enough going for them in the positive category.
This is just absurd, out of the top. But what
else would you'd expect, I guess from a fragrance maker
who specializes in luxury fragrances. It's like, let's expand the
(21:32):
market and get it on all that hot newborn category.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
To get these babes smell like white musk, right, that
was one of the one of the descriptors. Yeah, what
is that? I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It's better than smell like elon musk. I guess at
least this week he does smell so great. But let's
move on, thatt, let's talk about food inflation. If we're talking,
we're talking about expensive crap. Let's keep going down that
down in that vein. There was an article on Business
Insider about how fast food isn't cheap anymore, and prices
at McDonald's are up ten percent this year, following a
ten percent increase last year too, and the value section
(22:03):
of the menu at McDonald's it's not all that great either.
McDonald's and most of these fast food restaurants have essentially
eliminated all one dollar items, like you can't find anything
that cheap anymore. Which, let's be honest, what food food
item that's totally hot and freshly prepaired should cost a dollar.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's a little scary. Back in the day, there's an
argument to be like twenty years ago, sure you get
you know, get a cheeseburger or something like that for
ninety nine centsmore. In college, I would get the you
could get like the thing at Chili you get a
baked potato. You remember that well? I remember maybe im
thinking of Windy's.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Either way, maybe I was in middle school, but they
had mcconais had like twenty nine and thirty nine percent
hamburgers and cheeseburgers on like Wednesday nights or something like that.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, old, are you very old? Twenty nine hammers period
went down in the five and dollars in the movies
for our quarter Cochlers and nickel.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, no, not white, but yeah, it's just interesting to
see this in the CPI data reflects that it's just
so much more expensive to eat out than it even
is to buy groceries. We've lamented how expensive it it
has gotten to get groceries, but when you look at
the data, year over year, food at home has gone
up two point one percent and eating out has gone
up six point four percent, And so prices. Yeah, they're
(23:08):
up at Kroger, they're up at publics, they're up at
Whole Foods wherever you shop, but they're not up nearly
as much as they are at your favorite restaurant. And
this is not an attempt to judge your eating habits.
If you're like a Warren Buffett going McDonald's every single
day of your life.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Do your thing.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Obviously he's in his ninety so he's doing just fine.
But this data is helpful when we're thinking about our
budget and how our eating habits affect what we're able
to save and invest.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And it comes down to lifestyle and what you went
your life to look like, right, because like I'm thinking
of like the occasional big Mac or even though once
a week latte, that's not going to make or break
your ability to retire or anything like that. But the
more we partake it is going to have a larger
and larger impact on our finances and on our arteries. Yes,
and as prices rise, we I think we should probably
reconsider some of our habits. It's not the worst thing
(23:54):
to do occasionally, but so many folks just find themselves
eating fast food on the rag and it might seem cheap,
but in reality it's not, as those leftovers are way cheaper.
Wait chiber Man, and I just hear so many folks
blame their fast food runs on busyness. But just like
everything else out there, we are going to prioritize the
things that we actually care about in meal planning. It
is going to be a lifesaver if you are looking
(24:16):
for inspiration. I'd certainly understand there are going to be
certain seasons in life where you know what, let's just
swing by, let's just pick up some fast food. But
even then there are other healthier, more affordable options too,
like even just swinging by Costco, grabbing one of his chickens,
pulling that thing apart, throwing that on some salad. Like
that's literally something we did earlier this week when we
were pressed for time. It was a busy week. But
that is a way that you can not only eat
(24:37):
a little more healthy, but find a way to save
some money as well.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
If you're in the northern suburbs of Atlanta and you
see someone in a gray vand just going to town
on a whole roads, just true chicken, that's Matt.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
You'll starts macking on the wings like they're in the store.
He'll crack that plastic tub open. I've seen him do it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I've always thought that was a faux pas eating the
food in the store before you check out like, I
know some people do it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
But cool, No, I'm not done with it. By the way,
budget bites, we've had Beth Month's on the show before,
but she has some amazing recipes A way to cook
at home for less money. We can link to the
interview we had her. Was it like maybe two years
ago we let her on the show.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Batch cooking is another thing that's overlooked somebody, like, yeah,
cooking extra stuff, freezing it so that it's easy to
reheat later on, whether that's for lunches, whether that's because
you're going on a road trip, or what's.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Part of doing of smoking. Yeah, literally today for lunch,
I had some leftover brisket, and you know what you
kind of get over brisketed with like the week after
you do a pork butter or a brisket something like
that on the weekend. And what we've started doing is
we'll just slice a big hunk of it off stick
in the freezer, portion it out into separate meals, and dude,
pop out thin in the microwave. You start smelling it
(25:41):
and all of a sudden, it's like I've never had
it before.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, it's like, what is this food, I mean not
much tops stress for sure. On the note of food nout,
let's talk about tipping. There's new research from Pew and
they found that Americans say that tipping is expected in
more places, but then they also don't feel confident about
when and how to.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
They're not alone. I feel that too. I'm like, still
I have.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Even though I've kind of developed some rules for how
I tip, how much I tip, and where I tip,
there's still the awkwardness, the sweaty awkwardness of having the
iPad turned around, that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Moment of panic.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, the service worker is just like smiling at you, yeah,
and you're like stuff looking at me. You feel like
you're under one of those heat lamps, right, or like
you're in like the being grilled by a cop or
something like that. But I feel like the tip suggestions
can be wildly overdone, and so suggestions that are also
kind of tough to come up against. I'm always amazed
when a counter service places suggest a twenty to twenty
five percent tip or a thirty percent tip. I'm more
(26:35):
than willing to work over that much at a sit
down restaurant, but at a local barbecue joint where like
they call my name and I go pick up my
own food. Sorry, it feels a little different, not willing
to do that. So I guess my suggestion here is
just like come up with your own tipping philosophy ahead
of time. Maybe it's a flat one dollar for a coffee,
ten percent for counter service, than twenty to thirty percent
(26:55):
for sit down restaurants based on how the service is.
Those are just like rough guidelines, But knowing what you're
willing to tip ahead of time helps to eliminate some.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Of that awkwardness.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And then you know potentially even forking over more than
you had planned to do in the moment. And that
there are even like stories out there of you're at
a kiosk at the airport and there's no actual human
that has helped you and you want to tip, you're
still asked for a tip, which just boggles my mind.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I will say I think sometimes that like if you
walk up to order a coffee, they've got like the
like twenty percent or even twenty five percent can be
the default because you're just getting a coffee, and so
like like in those cases, whether it's like getting a
coffee or a beer, I'm totally fine with saying, all right,
no matter what, I'm going to give a dollar. Yeah,
because it's sort of the minimum viable. When I started
drinking in my younger day, like I was paying with cash,
(27:41):
and so the ability just to always leave a dollar,
I don't know in my mind that has carried over
to all right, I'm always going to leave a dollar
at least when I order a beer or get a
coffee someway, but a quarder it just feels chinsy. Yeah,
let's talk about travel, because airlines they're going to make
record amounts of money this year in fees one hundred
and eighteen billion dollars to be exact. There's a fee
(28:02):
for basically everything when you're buying airfare these days, especially
with the big discount airlines. But we're talking about extra
money for signed seats, check bags, food, even travel insurance.
There's just still so much competition when it comes to
ticket pricing that airlines are trying to find other ways
to increase their their revenue. The ancillaries is what they
(28:22):
call them. And while we're typically fee averse, I actually
don't mind this model. I think we've kind of touched
on this before, but it allows frugal flyers out there
to save big dollars. By getting the lowest possible ticket
and then jumping through the hoops, you avoid some of
those additional costs. It makes me think back to like
even when I was a kid, Joel, I never flew anywhere,
Like think back to like, did you fly anywhere as
(28:45):
a kid? Twice? As a kid? Wrong? You got in
the station wagon or the Mini Vare you piled in
and we're gonna drive there as a family? And I
play them Ontana Mom, like yes, Or if you're younger,
ask your parents, because that was the reality. I doubt
that they hardly ever flew anywhere. And it's because you
had to be like rich and famous to fly somewhere.
It was more out of the reach press up to
(29:05):
fly yes, because it was a big deal. It is
now within reach of so many more people, and for that,
I love it. I love that folks can travel to
go see family, to go have fun, just just to
go explore a new city to take advantage of a deal.
But what that means for us as individuals is we've
got to be more savvy when it comes to some
of the different fees out there. Make the upgrade if
you want to, but just realize you don't have to,
(29:27):
and there are ways to get those airfares low without
we're talking about tipping. You shouldn't feel guilt when it
comes to like upgrading your seat. Like even with like Southwest,
there's like four options of like, oh shoot, you got
me in here because I saw the low low price,
and now there's three options that are more expensive on
the same exact flight in order to what is it
to like board sooner some of the other some of
(29:48):
the other things there.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But now I never pay for any of that crap. No,
And like, more power to you if you care about that.
I got enough friendly disagreement with a relative over Thanksgiving
on this very thing. They're like I hate the super discounter.
It's like they make you do all this stuff, and
I'm like, we're so fortunate they exist because they lower
prices on all the other airlines. And if you don't
do it, if you don't want to, if you prefer
convenience and you want to pay more, go for it.
(30:09):
But like just the fact the fact that they exist
and you cannot do that, and you can jump through
hoops and you can fly across the country for like
sixty bucks around trip.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's incredible, it's amazing. It's it's truly.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Revolutionary for how we get around. And so yeah, these fees,
I think actually allow us to partake in ridiculously discount
of travel. You just have to know what those fees are,
know how to avoid them, and know which airlines charge
which fees. That's easy to look up. It doesn't mean
it's not annoying, because it usually is. Like you know,
I hear people fly in Spirit. I still haven't flown Spirit.
(30:40):
It's on my to do list, but like it's not bad.
Yeah that you got to like stick your because you
just recently flew on Spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
We did Frontier and they can do the same thing
where they make you. Yeah, they'll they'll question your bag,
if they'll look if your bags looking pretty large, they're like,
all right, stick it in the little They're not doing
that at Delta metal crate and you're paying one like
shoving it down. Yeah, you got to make this thing fit.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So just a note like fees usually suck, but fees
in the right context and then working to avoid those
fees can actually help you save money.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I will say, by the way Frontier I was actually
very surprised how nice it was. It was a very
pleasant experience. Aside from having to I did have to
check my not check my bag. I had to prove
that it wasn't too big. All right, that's fine, just
don't make me pay more for it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, I got two airlines I need to try. Now,
let's send it on a high note, Matt. After that
conversation with Tina the FAFSA guru, this week, there's this
great article from Michelle Singletary over at the Washington Post
and it was titled I didn't go to my dream school.
Now I'm living debt free. So it was thrilled to
see that. And Michelle, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
She's awesome. She's been on the show before.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
She's always just all about saving money, and she's just
spot on in her reporting here, Like, we don't want
to blow up the dreams of high school students, but
attending a school that's closer to your home or that
offers you far more money and financial aid that can
massively increase your life satisfaction in those early post grad years.
I think so many people it just sounds so nice
to go to the dream school, even if it means
(32:03):
taking on tens of thousands of dollars additionally in student
loan debt, but that ultimately leads to a lot more
difficult years post graduation and not necessarily a massive uptick inexperience.
We'd say, having little to no student loan debt takes
this massive weight off your shoulders totally. And I loved
what Michelle said. She said she wouldn't even allow her
(32:23):
kids to consider taking out student loans. It was off
the table. It was not a conversation that she was
willing to have, which is hardcore. That's an extreme stance,
potentially more hardcore than I'm gonna be with my own kiddos.
I think I would be willing to let my children
make them Like I'm going to talk with them about it. Yeah,
I want to, like, we're gonna lay it out, we're
gonna excel is going to be involved, and we're gonna
have forecasting models to show what you could instead do
(32:44):
with that money. But I think like at some point
they're adults and you kind of want to want them
to make their own decisions. Yeah, the hard no feels
a little extreme, but I get it. If they're still
living under your roof and stuff like you're you're like, hey,
that's not an option, But I agree. I would like
rather help teach them, show them all the options, show
them how bad it can be. Then I'm gonna have
my figures on the scale.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
But I want them build pul make the decision you're
gonna have to sleep in the bed that you're making
right with this decision. But yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And I think it's especially hard to this time of year,
with like college football season in full gear. We're at
my in laws over the holidays. College football is on
and you see people walking around town. They've got their
you know, their sport and whatever school it is that
they're supporting. That can have such an impact on sort
(33:28):
of the mindset. I think of of high school seniors
who are looking to the different schools and they see
that culture and they want to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Maybe he doesn't want to go to the University of
Oregon with those dope uniforms.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
But when you again, you are basically forfeiting so much
of your future by settling yourself with so much debt.
And it would be different if you're getting something like
extremely better that's going to produce greater results for you
over the long run. But most of the time, it's
like you're just often the case man.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
You're just going to get the communications or the business degree.
And you know what, even though that school is more
attractive to you, it doesn't mean that the degree is
more attractive to a future employer.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, you're you're buying into a brand at that point.
It makes me think of the scented baby water. Yeah,
like you're you're just in love with the idea of this,
But buddy, that's gonna be it for this Friday flight.
Listeners can find all of the different articles and stories
we may have referenced in our show notes up on
the website at howtomoney dot com. No doubt, all
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Right, but until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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