January 9, 2026 • 39 mins
Time for a Friday Flight- our little sampling of the week’s best financial news and what it means for your personal finances. There are a lot of headlines out there, but we boil them down to specific takeaways that will allow you to kick off the weekend informed and help you to get ahead with your money. In this episode we explain some relevant and helpful stories like:
- World Cup ticket prices
- Retailers charging for returns
- Return rabbits
- Garnished wages on the way
- Education Department loan simulator
- Easily compare college costs
- Double majoring
- Nihilistic renters
- Shopping your mortgage
- No corporate landlords
- Timeshares, so hot right now
- Overdraft fees rising
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to had the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt. Today
we're talking return rabbits, double majoring, and nihilistic renters. Yeah.
(00:26):
It's great to be back here at the Friday Flight,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's good to have an opinion that not just your
partner and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Want to hear. Joel. I'm sure that that's part of
it for you. What was it I never want to hear?
I texted you, Uh, there.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was something that hit the news like in the middle
of Christmas week or something like that, and I can't
remember what it was, but I think it was gift
cards about gift cards, and I was just like, I'm
here for you, buddy, if you can't vent on the
podcast or you just want to vent to me directly,
but no, this is the Friday Flight where we talk
about the headlines from the past week, how they were
specif going to impact your personal finances, Joel. Everybody has
(01:03):
been like up in arms about the World Cup prices.
World Cup World Cup ticket prices that will be coming
here to North America this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Reporting events are just cheap in general, Matt, is what
I found out. Yeah. Actually I went to a college
game basketball game with my kids this past weekend that
was affordable way and it was free, like they had
free tickets to go see the female basketball. I'm taking
them kids again this weekend because I guess what, I
got more free tickets. And this was not because I
got a hook up. This was they were widely available.
(01:33):
Anybody could get these free tickets. But World Cup prices
for not letting me know, I know, I been there
with you. I thought about it after the fact fact,
but the World Cup ticket prices nowhere near free. Yeah. Well,
I think they released a small small amount of like
sixty dollar tickets or something.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Oh yeah, what's like how high of elevation? Like there's
literally an altimeter associated with the seats? Yeah, you get
for sixty bucks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I know you've been saving up though, you because we're
gonna have good memories here, are you? Are you gonna
go through with it? Are you gonna buy tickets? Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So he it's funny that you bring that up, because
that's literally a conversation Kate and I had at the
end of last year beginning of this year, as we're
doing budget planning, we're looking at our savings buckets, how
much we either went over on some of those or
how much surplus we have in them. And this is
a category that I guess it was like four years ago. Yeah,
listeners maybe can go back, and they're not gonna go back,
(02:26):
but listeners might remember us talking about this and how
I thought, you know what, We're gonna have some kids,
and I think there's a good chance that they're going
to be into soccer by the time twenty twenty six
rolls around, and I want to be able to take
them one, if not multiple, or you know, the whole
family to see some World Cup matches. And specifically the
reason for that was at that point in time four
(02:47):
years ago, I was really into soccer and so I
was going to MLS matches all the time. It is
not something that I have kept up, and nor is
it a sport that the kids have really taken up.
I mean, there's all sorts of stuff were doing, but
soccer isn't one of them. And so I actually asked
Kate as we're looking at the twenty twenty six budget,
and I said, hey, what do you want to do
(03:08):
with this, because I doubt we're going to go, especially
based on how expensive the prices were, because I based
I based the ticket prices on the average ticket price
and was it in Qatar last time, And so they
published all the prices and it is significantly more than
what the standard ticket was back then, and she was
fine with us just rolling that into some other special
(03:32):
occasion entertainment expense. Essentially, essentially, you're like relabeling it not
World Cup, but let's just keep it earmarked for something else.
So all that being said, I'm not currently at least
planning to go to a World Cup match. I signed up,
I created a like at the beginning because I wanted
to see how much were they actually going to be
for the different matches and logged in and you know,
(03:52):
like the FIFA portal or whatever where you could where
you could do that. But I was I was a
little disheartened.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I think of the World Cup kind of like the Olympics,
and obviously like soccer specific Olympics essentially, right, because it's
nations around the world competing, and how often you get
it in your hometown and be really fun to go
see a game, even if it's just some sort of
like friendly or something ahead of time. I don't even
care if I get the opportunity to go for a
reasonable price. I will because I look back on the
one World Series game I've been to I remember, and
(04:19):
the one so pumped about that, and the one MLS
Cup final I went to, and you know, would I've
paid a thousand dollars for those tickets? No, but like
when they were sub two hundred bucks, all right, okay,
I'm happy to do that. So if I get access
to a reasonably price ticket, I'll go. But other than that,
I'm just not going to fork over a ton of
money for it. I don't care enough either, but to
be able to say you're there, like I know that
(04:41):
Pelchrium played Portugal or something like that, that'd be awesome.
Those tickets won't be going, No, those are going to
be really I don't know much about what's how those
countries are doing, but you have to watch, like Trinidad
play I don't know, some some other no name country
like yeah, I forget I remember reading about it, like
derogatory towards Trinidad by the way, I'm sorry. No, I
mean there are some countries because they've expanded the pool.
(05:04):
I'm pretty sure, like there are some countries that have
never made it before, and this is the first time
they're making it. So I'm guessing those may not necessarily
be the absolute best matches, but yeah, as always, you
are a valuist in a similar way. If I come
across an opportunity and I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Like, hey, for get some last minute tickets, make it,
you know, make it down there to see a match
that sounds like a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But and we'll just see one last thing here. A
lesson I think everybody can learn is plan ahead for
really expensive stuff, and hey, you might decide you're not
going to use the money for that purpose, and then
you can use it for something else. Yeah, newfound wealth
to use elsewhere. It's like finding a twenty in your
winter jacket, but.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's way more than that, Like literally, I mean we've
set aside like thousands of dollars ye.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That we had earmark for that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But something else that folks are doing these days, Joel
after the holidays is making all those returns, like all
that crap that you don't want or that maybe you
realize wasn't going to be a great gift. Most retailers
are going to allow you to make those retren through
the end of the month. I was recently at Whole
foods making like a bulk Amazon return drop off.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And they had it was like a holding pin.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Life that like with the with the ropes and stuff
like going down the aisle and luckily I was there
when it wasn't wasn't crowded at all.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Is able just to walk straight up, but I could don't.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I can imagine what that was like a few days.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Prior, Saturday, right after Christmas or something. Oh my gosh, Yeah,
that's not the day to return. I'm find another time.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But you might get charged for making some of those
returns though, so keep an eye out for that. Obviously,
returns are an expensive reality for a lot of retailers,
and so because of that, many folks are mini companies
are taking a lump out of their customers for bringing
these items back. Three quarters of retailers have made their
return policy less generous. So we're gonna call out a
(06:49):
few here. TG Max Marshalls are charging twelve bucks if
you make a return online instead of in store. Macy's,
which I am very surprised to see is still around.
I don't like, do they operate in the malls that
I'm also surprised to see are still open because Macy's
aren't standalone stores, so I guess these are in shopping malls.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I keep wondering about the mall nearest to us. I'm like, how,
what's going to happen? Yeah? Is that going to be
exist in the current form?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I don't know, man, But Macy's they're going to charge
you ten bucks if you aren't a rewards member or
an outfitters. They're also going to charge you for online returns.
And I mentioned Amazon earlier, but they're kind of all
over the place depending on the item, like where it
is that you return it, whether you need to like
package the thing up before returning it or not. But
get those returns done and try not to get eaten
(07:36):
the live buy fees in the process.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah. The other thing I think is we're seeing retailers
offer more final sale products, and that's essentially to say, hey,
we're going to give you a decent price on this
piece of clothing or whatever it is, but you have
no right to return it at all because we don't
we don't want it back. And I think you just
have to know your size, no the retailer, and have
(08:00):
an idea at least I guess of whether you're going
to be pretty happy with that item before you make
the purchase, if it's final sale.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, if you know your sizes and you know the
company man, that's a great way. It's sort of like
you with your shoes. That's a great way to take
advantage of an awesome deal.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I mean, I think they're going to have to cut
the prices, slashing them significantly when folks are all of
a sudden pushed up against the reality of I can't
make a return. Yeah, so I'm stuck with this thing,
and that makes them think twice about it. That's right,
and Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
An even more extensive way to return stuff is to
hire other people to do it for you. But of course,
of course in modern day America, that's something you can do.
Instead of packages landing on your doorstep, there's there are
new companies like Return Queen that will pick those packages
up from your house. You stick them back on the porch,
and then they whisk them off to ups or wherever
(08:48):
they need to make those returns.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I I was a little disappointed that you didn't say
return Queen like I was hoping you would say it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's like Queen like that.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I'll include that but still you didn't really commit,
so that doesn't count. You might have to do it
one more time, and maybe we'll say that for that
right next episode. Task grab it's another site where you
could like hire people to do stuff for you. Those
like return gigs apparently are up sixty percent on that site,
according to the Wall Street Journal, and specifically, the journal
found that some folks are even reaching out to moving
(09:17):
companies for help returning heavy items.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That they purchase. Hey, maybe you bought that rowing machine
that Matt loves or something, and you're like, oh, I
got to return it, but I'm going to break my
back trying to get it in the car, and blah
blah blah. People are literally reaching out to moving companies
paying them to return stuff for them, which seems great.
I can't imagine that's widespread, but it's a thing. And
I was looking at the pricing Matt of return Queen.
It doesn't seem crazy, like ten bucks for a pickup
(09:40):
of up to like twelve packages or something like that.
But of course there's a subscription you can sign up
for and that's hundreds of dollars a year. But this
is still an expense added right to something that it's
taking another cut, just like retailers are doing. Now other
places who will do the return for you are also
so taking a cut. Bloomberg called it an adulting tax,
(10:02):
which I don't know if that's accurate, because a tax
is something like you're kind of forced to pay. This
is something you're doing to yourself that you are choosing
this is optional because you could have made the returns
on your own, and you're just not getting every penny
back by as you would if you made those returns
on your own. But I guess the bright side of
this is that it means for a lot of people
they're actually going to make the returns instead of just
(10:24):
letting that stuff I don't know, linger somewhere in the
back of their closets standing in their house. This is
where I kind of it's weird because you're trying to
value your time, which is important, but there's this fine
line between like knowing your hourly rate and farming out
chores on repeat and then just kind of becoming beholden
and dependent on these new services that add up over time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
This convenience culture that is completely optional. And you're saying
too the fact that it's not all that expensive. But
you know how these new companies, these new startups work.
They get their hooks in you, you get used to
this new lifestyle, and then once they've got market share,
they just slowly turned the screwze on you. That's how
they eventually, or at least what they promised to their
shareholders or new potential shareholders, how they're going to make
(11:07):
a profit. Yeah, but all the while costing you even
more money. So let's talk about student loans, because obviously,
graduating with a massive student loan debt it's never been
a good thing. But I feel like in this area
it's worse than usual. As millions of borrowers are finding
themselves behind on payments, they are falling into delinquency. And
this is after a pretty long pause that we've seen
(11:28):
basically starting with the COVID pandemic era. Those folks are
going to be in for a rude awakening though. In
twenty twenty six. Wage garnishment is beginning. Those notices are
being sent out this week, and it's not just paychecks
that could see up to a fifteen percent reduction, it's
the tax refunds as well. Many borrowers are going to
have their entire refund taken by the government come April,
(11:51):
and that's also going to be a rude awakening because
I think a lot I mean a lot of folks
they talk about how dependent they are on that sort
of cash and fusion in the spring because for what.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
The average tax refunds something like four thousand dollars. I
want to say, like, it's a lot of money. It's
a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And so obviously being in default is going to mess
up your credit score, but it's going to cause other
potential financial issues as well. And you know, we're not
going to weigh in on the issues of fairness, but
either way, the goal is to get out of student
loan payment default quickly. Switching repayment plans that might be
your best bet if you are having a difficult time
paying every month. We'll link to the Department of Education
(12:28):
Loan Simulator and it's got a few different options there
where you can sort of see what your options might be.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, and you can object, by the way, if you
think that the delinquency is an error. But what's I
think is it five million borrowers Matt who find themselves
like something like two hundred and seventy plus days behind again.
I get it, the whiplash and the well, your student
loans even a thing anymore? Like that's the way it
felt two years ago. Yes they're a thing, and yes
(12:55):
repayments have started. And if you find yourself by the
way between a rock and a hard place with very
little help from a gutted education department, well then you're
gonna want to consider potentially more drastic measures. In particular,
we're actually seeing more student loans being discharged via bankruptcy.
A simpler process was essentially introduced under the Biden administration,
(13:16):
and it's starting to bear fruit for some borrowers who
go to court in an attempt to get their loans dismissed. Outright,
it's obviously a drastic measure, but at least for some
who meet what's known as the undue hardship framework, who
kind of check a few different boxes and can prove
basically that their student loan payment is completely unaffordable, they
can have the balance essentially eradicated. This might be at
(13:41):
least for some people who are significantly struggling, who really
cannot afford to pay that student loan balance, that might
be their most realistic shot at ditching it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, and it's interesting though the quote unquote undue hardship
framework is not clearly defined as to what that means.
And so if you are looking to have your student
loans discharged like that and bankruptcy, well, just know that
it's still the wild wild West. And I wanted to
mention too, if here's some.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
People who specialize in that, like student loan lawyers. I
literally subscribe to an email newsletter of a student loan
lawyer because he has such a great insight on this front.
And you might find that you need the help of
a professional. And even then, right, it's still not one
hundred percent surefire that you're going to win. And maybe
you now owe lawyer's fees and you still are your
student loans, and so there's potential problem going that round
(14:30):
as well.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It takes a certain amount of insight and wisdom to know.
It's not a black or white answer. Yeah, this is
one where you kind of have to feel it out,
and I wanted to mention, like, if you have no
idea where it is that you should start. We've talked
with folks from Student Loan Planner before, and we'll link
to a resource in our show notes there as well,
because they can help you to put together a plan
and to figure out the best path forward for you
(14:51):
as an individual to not only get out of default,
but to really just be able.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
To tackle your student loans. That's we're spending money to
hire an expert. Can save you money. Attend helps actually
a lot more. Yeah, yeah, help you know that you're
on the right path.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Okay, So while we are talking about higher ed friend
of the show, Ron Lieber, he continues to document how
expensive college can be and specifically how to reduce the price,
which we love hearing that, but he has detailed how
hard it is to compare college.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Costs ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's you know, you're basically trying to compare apples oranges.
But there is this new.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Tool like opaque fruits too, Matt, like the you never
even heard of, Yeah, and what is this thing? And
that's because there's just so little transparency from many schools
about what they offer in terms of financial aid and
making that information public.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, you're trying to like you're trying to compare this
like ever crisp apple to this. Oh, this is a
mystery fruit. I've got no idea what this even is.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It's behind box number one.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But he recently wrote about this new tool from a
company called Niche that can help or niche depending on
how you like to pronounce it. But instead of going
to each college's net price calculator and in putting the
information directly, it can do it for you all in
one place, and then it can compare multiple schools at once,
which is fantastic because Man, keeping the price of a
(16:08):
four year degree down like it's more important than ever.
It's really crucial to making it a good investment. And
we'll make sure to link to.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
That as well. Man And we also have prior podcast
conversations with people like Jocelyn Pearson who can help you
wade through the looking for scholarship stuff, Like there's a
lot that you can do as an individual to go
out there and hunt for money where you think about
the hourly rate. Matt of like my nephew who's working
(16:37):
at a fast food chain right now, as I did
like in high school, and you don't get paid a
whole lot his time. An hour is worth nothing, very little,
and it's probably worth actually a lot more. And I've
talked about this with my sister, like, hey, what if
he took a few worked a few less hours and
spent those hours trying to hunt for scholarships. I like
(16:57):
the idea of doing both because I like the idea
of working in high school. But why Yeah, that's a
really smart thing to I think incentivize your kids to
do is to hunt for those scholarships, because if you
do it in the right way, you might find that
the return is significant. I love it. Also, more students
are opting to double major right now in an effort
to improve career opportunities. I've talked about how the job
(17:20):
market seems a little stagnant, and especially for recent college graduates,
it feels like there's or in reality, there's less hiring
going on. A lot of people who just got that degree.
They're like, where's my job? And they're having a lot
of time. There's a lot of uncertainty right now. Yeah. Well,
and the data seems to show that the double the
amount of students are getting two majors these days instead
(17:43):
of just one compared to ten years ago. Other statistics
show that folks with double majors are less likely to
lose their job, They're less likely to have their pay cut.
So I think there's a bunch of wisdom in the
choice of getting two majors instead of a major and
a minor. Double majoring. It requires more effort, it requires
more hours in a particular field of study. But it's
(18:05):
possible to pull it off without spending more time at
school or even forking over more money when you think
about them out what a full time student is. I
was talking about this with my daughter the other day.
Was twelve plus hours. But in school, there's a lot
of people who I knew and myself included, who were
taking nineteen twenty twenty one hours in a semester. And
you don't always you're not always paying per credit hour
(18:26):
as a full time student. Oftentimes you're paying a flat
tuition rate.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A lot of yeah, son of universities do that and
so take those extra classes, bring all that extra load.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Double majoring in four years is for sure possible if
you're a little more pedal to the medal, and then
think about that easier to get a job, easier than
to stay employed and get paid more as well.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's the big question, right, is that it's yeah, only
doing it for four years, it's still possible, But I
think it gets even harder for a lot of folks
as they pile on the hours because of the fact that,
like I remember, I mean, we'll think about AP classes too.
Think about kids graduating high school. Let's say they've passed
a four AP tests, they've got some of those credits.
Then it's even easier for those kids.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's even easier.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But like I mean, over the past decade two decades,
we've seen like it was a joke to be like, oh, yeah,
I'm on the five year program back when.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We're in college.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like I've talked with folks, and for a lot of
folks getting a four year degree, it's you can't call
it a four year degree. You call it an undergrad
of bachelor's and six years is the new standard. And
so we have seen some of that additional undergrad creep.
And so I think that's one of the big tricks too,
is to make sure, Yeah, you got to find that
(19:35):
balance between getting out of school on time. Maybe you
do want to stick around, Maybe there's still some maturation
that's taking place, and you're like, I don't know, I
think some more time hanging out here, yes, working, yes,
taking additional classes.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Maybe, and maybe you've got to hone my beer pond game.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Maybe it all bounces out in the end where Okay,
let's say you are there only six years and you've
got two degrees. I don't know, it's better than two
separate four year stints where you've got I'm saying the
numbers I guess could still be there even if you
are extending it out to six years you've double majored.
But it's certainly something to be aware of the fact
(20:12):
that it's more likely to extend your undergrad if you
were to double major and you got.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
To be you gotta be on top of that, you.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Got to you gotta be a little more prudent and
intentional with your time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I don't want to make it sound like it's easy,
right that anybody can double major in four years, but
I certainly think more people can and it might not
have to cost a bunch of extra money or time
if you're diligent. Right, that's true. All right, Slate Queen,
Matt I tossed it in now return queen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's the whole point is that you say it likes
Slate Queen, but you say retainly it's okay, I screwed up.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
All right, we got more to get to, including We're
gonna talk about President Trump's announcement about big Wall Street
firms not being allowed to invest in single family homes again,
what's our take on that. We'll talk about that and
more right after this. All right, buddy, we are back
(21:06):
from the break return Queen.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week,
which is from the Washington Post. Headline reads, Abandoning home
ownership may be changing how people behave at work and
at home. And basically this article was about some new
research based on renters who have essentially given up on
the idea of owning a home. There's this new study
(21:28):
from economists at Northwestern and University of Chicago. Real smart
folks when it comes to the numbers, but they find
that and this is a quote, when people conclude that
they will never be able to find a home, they
put less effort into their jobs. They tend to spend
more on luxuries and do less long term saving. Oh
and are more likely to invest in riskier assets such
(21:48):
as cryptocurrencies. Basically, if you don't think you can buy
a home, I'm just gonna roll the dice. When it
comes to all these and all the other arenas of life,
specifically with your personal finances. And yeah, what do you think, Joel?
I mean, I get it, you know, like it's totally
totally sucks. If this is the boat that you're in,
I understand that it can be painful.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I think it makes sense to me that people
would say, if I can't buy a home, then I'm
going to yolo some other stuff, right, like Yola, those investments,
And I'm just not even going to dedicate as much
money to savings because what am I saving for If
I'm a perpetual renter and I don't have a big
down payment I need to amass, then screw it. But
(22:29):
I also, I mean, I think it's a self perpetuating
problem too. I think we've been in a macroeconomic time
that has not been in recent years beneficial to people
who want to buy a home. And we'll talk about
kind of starter home single family homes in just a second.
But it makes sense that people feel like, because it
(22:51):
is harder to afford a home right now, that maybe
they'll never be able to afford a home. But I
also just think it's important to mention that those dynamics
and shift. Yeah, policy can change, right, And so if
you decide, oh, I'm probably never gonna go home, so
I'm not gonna save like I might be able to
at some point, You're you're doing future you a disservice,
(23:12):
and you're almost like baking into the cake ensuring but
you never will be able to buy it or guaring. Yeah,
you are guaranteeing it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
And essentially I feel like this study it takes more
of a linear or logical approach to how these twenty
thirty how are old, they are, how they're making their
financial decisions. Right, It's just like, oh, I can't afford
a home, therefore I will participate in these less smart,
more short term focused decisions riskier too, yeah exactly when
(23:40):
instead I think it could be a situation where maybe
it's the same folks who think that way are who
are focused on the short term, the near term. Those
are the same folks that are saying, oh, well I can't.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Afford a house.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, it doesn't surprise me that those same folks would
then say, well, yeah, I should be looking at how
to maximize happiness you know today that means going out tonight,
that means not saving for future me, And there's just
a short termism focus to someone. If that's how you're thinking,
it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't just impact how
it is that you're approaching housing, but that it approaches
(24:15):
how you perform at work, because if you are thinking
more long term with your job, you're thinking, no, I
need to put in the hours, the effort, the creativity
that's going to allow me to advance in this company. Oh,
if I want to be able to retire someday, that
means I need to set aside at least ten, if
not twenty percent of my ink of every single paycheck.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Like there is just a.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Maturation process, Like that's something we were talking about earlier.
But there's something about that that causes you to think
a little bit more long term beyond not just today,
beyond next year, but like years and even decades down
the road. Like that's the I think that's the biggest
difference here.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And I don't want to tell people who are renting
who wants own a home, like be okay with renting forever,
because I think that's not necessarily in the card. It's
like you might be able to buy a home at
some point.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And I think you very very well can and will. Oh,
and that's some point if that's something that you truly
do want to.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Do and if you're putting your money where your mouth is.
But I also want to say for people who are renting,
maybe for a time, it is actually a really good
financial thing for you. Like if you utilize the difference
between what you're paying in rent versus what you would
be paying on a mortgage if you were to buy today,
if you save that extra, like, you're gonna come out
further ahead actually financially, if you are a smart renter
(25:25):
being doing the right stuff with your money. Given kind
of the disparity between rents and mortgage payments right now.
Matte totally agree. But obviously one other side of the
equation that has kept housing unaffordable is mortgage rates. And yeah,
mortgage rates are higher, but we also kind of do
this to ourselves like a self inflicted wound. Most home
(25:48):
buyers don't shop around for a mortgage. Zillo just released
statistics something two thirds of people don't shop at all.
They literally just point at one mortgage lender and they're like,
I'm going with you, and this cost them huge money
over the life of their loan. We're talking about potentially
lowering it by shopping right by with three different lenders,
potentially lowering your rate by a full point, save you
(26:10):
hundreds of dollars a month, and then tens of thousands,
if not one hundred thousand dollars or more over the
life of your loan. This is this is one of
those things that I think, in my mind is non negotiable.
We talk about shopping around for little things online. If
you can save twenty bucks on a pair of jeans, cool,
But shopping around for a home loan, the stakes are
so much higher. So include a credit union in there,
(26:32):
Include a mortgage broker in there, Include maybe a local bank,
but just make sure you shop around, because yeah, the
savings can be meaningful.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, And I want to circle back to what you
were saying, as far as you're talking about banking, the
difference between your rent and what a potential mortgage might
be right, Like, you've got this, You're like, oh, great,
it is more affordable to rent. How is it that
I'm going to eventually be able to put down enough
money to purchase a home. It's those practical steps that
I think folks, if they don't, it's almost as if
(26:59):
because there's not something immediately in front of them that
they are pursuing a goal, whether it's like a vacation
or a very expensive purchase. You think, well, I'm not
going to want that thing we've talked recently about, like
the World Cup, thing like that. That's a bucket, like
a savings bucket that we have maintained because I'm thinking, oh, well,
at some point we're gonna want to spend that on something.
(27:20):
And it's something that we have slowly built up over time,
like literally we add fifty bucks to it every every
single month. That's what we've done over the past, like
I guess four years. But I think it's important for
folks to anchor the sacrifices that they're making today, those actions.
They need to anchor those actions to whatever potential goal
that you might have far off in the future, even
(27:40):
when that goal isn't clearly defined. I think for a
lot of folks, not having that clearly defined goal is
the biggest problem because once you have like wrapped your
mind around that, like, oh, I can picture myself like
whatever it is that you're going to do in your
new house, you know, like throwing the plane, fetch with
my dog in the backyard or sitting on the front
porch with my partner or inviting friends over to play
(28:02):
corn hole in the front of I don't know whatever,
like whatever it is, it's so much easier, I think
for folks to say I want that, yeah, And I
think the really hard part is to understand that, like
you don't have a specific vision for what that might
look like, but just know that it's like, I don't know,
it's like right around the corner.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And that's the it's hard to square that, I think
for a lot of folks. There's there's also a an
article about people moving to the Midwest more and more.
And so sometimes if you really if that dream of
home ownership is you're resolute in it, like this is
something I really really want, and you live in a
really high cost of living area, well, if home ownership
Trump's the particular place where you live, then you might
(28:40):
find that moving is the answer to at least part
of that conundrum. True.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Speaking of speaking of Trump, I know, I know you
wanted to touch on something he mentioned.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Let's do earlier this week, truth Truth to vout. I
believe the truth Truth social the an announcement that big
corporations are no longer going to be allowed to buy
single family homes and rent them out. And his he
basically said, people live in homes, not corporations. And Matt,
you and I actually have not talked about this yet together.
This is like, I think, kind of populist policy. I
(29:09):
can get behind the giant corporations owning single family homes
in greater numbers. They've led to rising rents in markets,
especially where these buying, these corporate landlords have been buying
in a concentrated way. It's led to a dearth of
starter homes for young buyers. Companies like invitation homes. They're
not great landlords either. We've seen a lot of horror
(29:31):
stories from tenants being like, yeah, they don't prepare anything.
There's mold all over the place. Some estimates show that
corporations own something like four percent of the overall single
family home rental stock in the country. Sounds like a
small amount, but I do think the impact of this
could be meaningful. But again, this is a this is
a truth social this is a social media post that
(29:52):
this will likely take an Act of Congress to make
it a law, and there's no silver bullet to rising
or to where home prices are right, Like, just this
one thing isn't going to magically make home prices back
to twenty twelve pricing affordability for people.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, but it is. We are never going to get
back there. Like that's the biggest difference. I mean truly,
you know, like like I don't see it, but I
don't see it happening. Better policy encouraging if more building
combined with this could all at least help make housing
more affordable for the average person.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, you want me to provide my counter? Aren't sure?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Because I mean, I think the biggest flaw with this
is the fact that it's it's just based on such
a scarcity sort of mindset, right, as opposed to the
exact opposite, Like we need abundance, right, Like that's a
word that we heard a ton of last year in
the ability line, the ability to and oh, Derek Toomas
on the show before Friend of the Show, but just
(30:51):
the ability to loosen building restrictions and provide more supply
for folks. I think that is much more of the
solution as opposed to three percent or three or four
percent of single family homes owned by corporations, like that
is such a small amount in.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Some markets were it's highly concentrated. Think like Atlanta. It's
about that in Atlanta too. No, it's more like ten
percent of it, is it? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Okay, so let's let's say ten percent. I know that
like Mama pop Landlord's own closer to like twenty years
and thirty percent. So, like, if you want to make
a bigger difference on the ability to free up starter
homes for folks single family homes these two ones, three two's,
then maybe like there should be something done about investors
who are looking to purchase some of these homes to
you know, further their financial position. It just it feels
(31:33):
like populist politics as opposed to actual policy that's going
to move the needle. And so in principle, just based
on like theoretical how are you approaching this problem framework?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
But also of course the fact that he's just like
I'm going to do this thing that's terrible politics, Like
is that even constitutional. We talked about student loans earlier,
the fact that previous administration said that, like we're going
to cancel student loans, and.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Even Speaker of the House was like.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, that's not constitution. We're going to do it anyway,
it's the same thing, and I hate that aspect of
how policy is being.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Pushed forward at least. And really what you're getting at
is supply side matters a lot more than trying to
coerce the details control and supply, Yeah, exactly. And if
we centivize more building, I think the greatest supply we
see is going to lead to reduced prices, especially in
some of those markets that are most desirable, which is
typically where it's harder to build than anywhere else exactly.
(32:29):
And in those cases, it's almost less about actually providing
incentives and just like loosening restrictions. Yeah, it's just generally speaking,
being less involved. But either way, July, I think we
can both both agree that the worst kind of home
buying or renting that you can do is buying a
time share, right, We an agreement there pretty much. Yeah,
(32:50):
according to Baron's time shares, they are making a comeback,
but there are plenty of problems with the business model
of time shares. That's the combination of high cost. It's
a combination of like that with low flexibility, bad resale
dynamics all added together make them pretty terrible. From a
(33:10):
this is a place that I want to put my
money and spend my time. They're incredibly hard to sell
if it turns out you don't love yours.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
And like if you think about getting into different types
of real estate and you've got an Airbnb, you've got
a Verbo rental, well, the pain is much less severe
if you want to unload that thing or even change
how it is that you are utilizing that space.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
If you even talk about just renting a place, you
run a place on Airbnb and it sucks, you leave
a bad review and you never stay there again. But
if you buy a time share and you hate it
like trying to get rid of it, it's like getting
an anvil off from the top of your head. Like acme.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'll talk about just from the standpoint of like, you've
got a space that you've poured money into and there's
options when you actually own it outright and when it
is yours.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But I hear what you're saying as well from a
do I like the space? YEA?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Like am I getting the value out of it that
I have wanted to or expect it to? So obviously
I'm not keen on them from a financial perspective. But
if you are listening and you're still interested because of
the almost immediate depreciation that a timeshare indoors. I think
buying a timeshare on their resale market is definitely going
to be a better way to go. And we're talking
(34:17):
about TUG classifies, It's the Timeshare Users Group, the Kasia Redwig.
These are all great resources if you're looking to get
a timeshare on the cheap.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, why it's spend twenty five grand on one when
you can get the same thing for pennies on the dollar.
Matt tails all the time. Overdraft fees got worse last year.
Not shocking, Yeah, I was surprised. It is worth noting
that's like every year on repeat. The big banks, though,
as it turns out, they don't make massive profits from
these fees. It's not like they're one of their bigger
profit centers, but they still add up, and they especially
(34:49):
hit consumers hard who are living on the margins, especially
when the average overdraft fee the average is something like
thirty five dollars and Matt the only big banks that
lowered over you almost everybody else raised them this past
year were Wells, Fargo and Truest. WHOA, let's say something
nice about Wells Fargo for the first time in the
history of this podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
This might be truly the first time we've said something positive.
Way to go, guys, proud of you. The best advice,
per usual, is to do your banking with one of
our favorite online banks. That's the assumption charge over draftees.
We've even seen some of them take away over draft
fees completely in recent years, Ally Discover c I, those
are some of the best. They don't charge over draft fees.
(35:29):
Do business with banks that don't hate you, and keeping
enough in your account to ensure that you don't overdar
your account. That's another yep, smart move. But yeah, well,
I've got a little confession to make so well you
specifically said Ally, and I've actually I can personally attest
to the fact that Ally doesn't charge over draft fees.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Do you have a recent a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Little story to share a little confession? Over the holidays,
I was like, you know what, I'm going to take
a serious break from email, Like I didn't even log
into my email for a solid week and a half,
almost two weeks, and I was in for a route
awakening when I logged back in and opened my laptop
and saw I was like, oh, what are these notices from,
not just ally but city.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh no, turns out.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
During that period of time, you know, I set I
scheduled my credit card payments for later in the month
at the end of the previous month, and I was
not paying close attention to my say spending slash checking
account there in ally, and it had dwindled dangerously low
solo in fact that the last payment to one of
(36:37):
my credit cards wasn't able to go through. And Ali
sent a kind little email and they said, hey, just
so you know.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Interact together.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
We're not going to charge you, but you might want
to check with the credit card issuer. And so, of
course that's the first thing I did, and was not
surprised to see that City hit me with a twenty
nine dollars return check fee.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
What did I do immediately? Joel, you called masked to
have it. Well, first, I sitting there on the computer.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well, it already made because there's another deposit that showed
up in the account, and it automatically fulfilled because it retries.
But still it doesn't erase the fact that they had
tried and got denied. They don't like that, and so
I fired up the chat was talking with somebody and
mentioned that and they're like, nope.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Sorry, not authorized to do that. And I was like,
oh really.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So I was like, okay, here's where you got to
step up the got to raise the stakes a little bit,
you know. And just I was like, well, I've been
a value member for so long, this has never happened
on the specific card.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And a little dot starts.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know, going across the little chat bot like letting
you know that they're typing something down. And basically they
said that they looked into it and they actually can't
do anything about that. They're not authorized. So I took
it up another level, dude. I took it till like
dropped it down to one. I think it's reversed, right,
And I said, well that's it. I want to cancel
this card. And I was shocked to see that. They said, okay,
(38:01):
would you like us to take care of that for
you today? And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
This isn't a real person, this is just a chatbot.
I thought I was talking to a real person. I
thought I was chatting with a real person. So maybe
you got to call the one hundred all right, So
that's what I did, and I was like, okay, I
thought I was gonna I gotta call up the number.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Lady picked up.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I kindly let her know what the situation was, expecting
it to be a big hassle, and she goes, sure,
I'll take care of that for you right now. And
I was I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I was dumbfounded. School.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It took me like twenty seconds literally talking. She was like, yep,
that'll show up on your statement here in three to
four business days or something like that. And uh, yeah,
it just goes to show for I feel like a
number of years you could hop on the online chat
and get fees like that reverse. But I wonder if
they're starting to tighten down a little bit because everybody's
using everybody was doing that, and so they're going to
make you pick up the phone. But I guess the
(38:51):
lesson is to not be afraid to talk to another human.
I like it, all right, all right, good job, well done, and.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Hopefully I won't run into an issue like that again
in this year. That's a good lesson for everyone. One
check your email a little more consistently other than every
twelve days. Make sure you got enough money in there,
and then hit the one eight hundred number if the
chatbot's not working for you, the real customer service. All right, Matt,
that's gonna do it. For this episode. We'll put links
to some of the resources we mentioned up in the
show notes on our site at howtomoney dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
That's right, and that's going to be it. We'll see
you back here on Monday with a fresh listener question episode.
But until then, best turns out, Best Friends Out,
Welcome to had the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt. Today
we're talking return rabbits, double majoring, and nihilistic renters. Yeah.
(00:26):
It's great to be back here at the Friday Flight,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's good to have an opinion that not just your
partner and kids.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Want to hear. Joel. I'm sure that that's part of
it for you. What was it I never want to hear?
I texted you, Uh, there.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was something that hit the news like in the middle
of Christmas week or something like that, and I can't
remember what it was, but I think it was gift
cards about gift cards, and I was just like, I'm
here for you, buddy, if you can't vent on the
podcast or you just want to vent to me directly,
but no, this is the Friday Flight where we talk
about the headlines from the past week, how they were
specif going to impact your personal finances, Joel. Everybody has
(01:03):
been like up in arms about the World Cup prices.
World Cup World Cup ticket prices that will be coming
here to North America this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Reporting events are just cheap in general, Matt, is what
I found out. Yeah. Actually I went to a college
game basketball game with my kids this past weekend that
was affordable way and it was free, like they had
free tickets to go see the female basketball. I'm taking
them kids again this weekend because I guess what, I
got more free tickets. And this was not because I
got a hook up. This was they were widely available.
(01:33):
Anybody could get these free tickets. But World Cup prices
for not letting me know, I know, I been there
with you. I thought about it after the fact fact,
but the World Cup ticket prices nowhere near free. Yeah. Well,
I think they released a small small amount of like
sixty dollar tickets or something.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Oh yeah, what's like how high of elevation? Like there's
literally an altimeter associated with the seats? Yeah, you get
for sixty bucks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I know you've been saving up though, you because we're
gonna have good memories here, are you? Are you gonna
go through with it? Are you gonna buy tickets? Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So he it's funny that you bring that up, because
that's literally a conversation Kate and I had at the
end of last year beginning of this year, as we're
doing budget planning, we're looking at our savings buckets, how
much we either went over on some of those or
how much surplus we have in them. And this is
a category that I guess it was like four years ago. Yeah,
listeners maybe can go back, and they're not gonna go back,
(02:26):
but listeners might remember us talking about this and how
I thought, you know what, We're gonna have some kids,
and I think there's a good chance that they're going
to be into soccer by the time twenty twenty six
rolls around, and I want to be able to take
them one, if not multiple, or you know, the whole
family to see some World Cup matches. And specifically the
reason for that was at that point in time four
(02:47):
years ago, I was really into soccer and so I
was going to MLS matches all the time. It is
not something that I have kept up, and nor is
it a sport that the kids have really taken up.
I mean, there's all sorts of stuff were doing, but
soccer isn't one of them. And so I actually asked
Kate as we're looking at the twenty twenty six budget,
and I said, hey, what do you want to do
(03:08):
with this, because I doubt we're going to go, especially
based on how expensive the prices were, because I based
I based the ticket prices on the average ticket price
and was it in Qatar last time, And so they
published all the prices and it is significantly more than
what the standard ticket was back then, and she was
fine with us just rolling that into some other special
(03:32):
occasion entertainment expense. Essentially, essentially, you're like relabeling it not
World Cup, but let's just keep it earmarked for something else.
So all that being said, I'm not currently at least
planning to go to a World Cup match. I signed up,
I created a like at the beginning because I wanted
to see how much were they actually going to be
for the different matches and logged in and you know,
(03:52):
like the FIFA portal or whatever where you could where
you could do that. But I was I was a
little disheartened.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I think of the World Cup kind of like the Olympics,
and obviously like soccer specific Olympics essentially, right, because it's
nations around the world competing, and how often you get
it in your hometown and be really fun to go
see a game, even if it's just some sort of
like friendly or something ahead of time. I don't even
care if I get the opportunity to go for a
reasonable price. I will because I look back on the
one World Series game I've been to I remember, and
(04:19):
the one so pumped about that, and the one MLS
Cup final I went to, and you know, would I've
paid a thousand dollars for those tickets? No, but like
when they were sub two hundred bucks, all right, okay,
I'm happy to do that. So if I get access
to a reasonably price ticket, I'll go. But other than that,
I'm just not going to fork over a ton of
money for it. I don't care enough either, but to
be able to say you're there, like I know that
(04:41):
Pelchrium played Portugal or something like that, that'd be awesome.
Those tickets won't be going, No, those are going to
be really I don't know much about what's how those
countries are doing, but you have to watch, like Trinidad
play I don't know, some some other no name country
like yeah, I forget I remember reading about it, like
derogatory towards Trinidad by the way, I'm sorry. No, I
mean there are some countries because they've expanded the pool.
(05:04):
I'm pretty sure, like there are some countries that have
never made it before, and this is the first time
they're making it. So I'm guessing those may not necessarily
be the absolute best matches, but yeah, as always, you
are a valuist in a similar way. If I come
across an opportunity and I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Like, hey, for get some last minute tickets, make it,
you know, make it down there to see a match
that sounds like a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But and we'll just see one last thing here. A
lesson I think everybody can learn is plan ahead for
really expensive stuff, and hey, you might decide you're not
going to use the money for that purpose, and then
you can use it for something else. Yeah, newfound wealth
to use elsewhere. It's like finding a twenty in your
winter jacket, but.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's way more than that, Like literally, I mean we've
set aside like thousands of dollars ye.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That we had earmark for that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But something else that folks are doing these days, Joel
after the holidays is making all those returns, like all
that crap that you don't want or that maybe you
realize wasn't going to be a great gift. Most retailers
are going to allow you to make those retren through
the end of the month. I was recently at Whole
foods making like a bulk Amazon return drop off.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And they had it was like a holding pin.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Life that like with the with the ropes and stuff
like going down the aisle and luckily I was there
when it wasn't wasn't crowded at all.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Is able just to walk straight up, but I could don't.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I can imagine what that was like a few days.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Prior, Saturday, right after Christmas or something. Oh my gosh, Yeah,
that's not the day to return. I'm find another time.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But you might get charged for making some of those
returns though, so keep an eye out for that. Obviously,
returns are an expensive reality for a lot of retailers,
and so because of that, many folks are mini companies
are taking a lump out of their customers for bringing
these items back. Three quarters of retailers have made their
return policy less generous. So we're gonna call out a
(06:49):
few here. TG Max Marshalls are charging twelve bucks if
you make a return online instead of in store. Macy's,
which I am very surprised to see is still around.
I don't like, do they operate in the malls that
I'm also surprised to see are still open because Macy's
aren't standalone stores, so I guess these are in shopping malls.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I keep wondering about the mall nearest to us. I'm like, how,
what's going to happen? Yeah? Is that going to be
exist in the current form?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I don't know, man, But Macy's they're going to charge
you ten bucks if you aren't a rewards member or
an outfitters. They're also going to charge you for online returns.
And I mentioned Amazon earlier, but they're kind of all
over the place depending on the item, like where it
is that you return it, whether you need to like
package the thing up before returning it or not. But
get those returns done and try not to get eaten
(07:36):
the live buy fees in the process.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah. The other thing I think is we're seeing retailers
offer more final sale products, and that's essentially to say, hey,
we're going to give you a decent price on this
piece of clothing or whatever it is, but you have
no right to return it at all because we don't
we don't want it back. And I think you just
have to know your size, no the retailer, and have
(08:00):
an idea at least I guess of whether you're going
to be pretty happy with that item before you make
the purchase, if it's final sale.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, if you know your sizes and you know the
company man, that's a great way. It's sort of like
you with your shoes. That's a great way to take
advantage of an awesome deal.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I mean, I think they're going to have to cut
the prices, slashing them significantly when folks are all of
a sudden pushed up against the reality of I can't
make a return. Yeah, so I'm stuck with this thing,
and that makes them think twice about it. That's right,
and Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
An even more extensive way to return stuff is to
hire other people to do it for you. But of course,
of course in modern day America, that's something you can do.
Instead of packages landing on your doorstep, there's there are
new companies like Return Queen that will pick those packages
up from your house. You stick them back on the porch,
and then they whisk them off to ups or wherever
(08:48):
they need to make those returns.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I I was a little disappointed that you didn't say
return Queen like I was hoping you would say it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's like Queen like that.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I'll include that but still you didn't really commit,
so that doesn't count. You might have to do it
one more time, and maybe we'll say that for that
right next episode. Task grab it's another site where you
could like hire people to do stuff for you. Those
like return gigs apparently are up sixty percent on that site,
according to the Wall Street Journal, and specifically, the journal
found that some folks are even reaching out to moving
(09:17):
companies for help returning heavy items.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That they purchase. Hey, maybe you bought that rowing machine
that Matt loves or something, and you're like, oh, I
got to return it, but I'm going to break my
back trying to get it in the car, and blah
blah blah. People are literally reaching out to moving companies
paying them to return stuff for them, which seems great.
I can't imagine that's widespread, but it's a thing. And
I was looking at the pricing Matt of return Queen.
It doesn't seem crazy, like ten bucks for a pickup
(09:40):
of up to like twelve packages or something like that.
But of course there's a subscription you can sign up
for and that's hundreds of dollars a year. But this
is still an expense added right to something that it's
taking another cut, just like retailers are doing. Now other
places who will do the return for you are also
so taking a cut. Bloomberg called it an adulting tax,
(10:02):
which I don't know if that's accurate, because a tax
is something like you're kind of forced to pay. This
is something you're doing to yourself that you are choosing
this is optional because you could have made the returns
on your own, and you're just not getting every penny
back by as you would if you made those returns
on your own. But I guess the bright side of
this is that it means for a lot of people
they're actually going to make the returns instead of just
(10:24):
letting that stuff I don't know, linger somewhere in the
back of their closets standing in their house. This is
where I kind of it's weird because you're trying to
value your time, which is important, but there's this fine
line between like knowing your hourly rate and farming out
chores on repeat and then just kind of becoming beholden
and dependent on these new services that add up over time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
This convenience culture that is completely optional. And you're saying
too the fact that it's not all that expensive. But
you know how these new companies, these new startups work.
They get their hooks in you, you get used to
this new lifestyle, and then once they've got market share,
they just slowly turned the screwze on you. That's how
they eventually, or at least what they promised to their
shareholders or new potential shareholders, how they're going to make
(11:07):
a profit. Yeah, but all the while costing you even
more money. So let's talk about student loans, because obviously,
graduating with a massive student loan debt it's never been
a good thing. But I feel like in this area
it's worse than usual. As millions of borrowers are finding
themselves behind on payments, they are falling into delinquency. And
this is after a pretty long pause that we've seen
(11:28):
basically starting with the COVID pandemic era. Those folks are
going to be in for a rude awakening though. In
twenty twenty six. Wage garnishment is beginning. Those notices are
being sent out this week, and it's not just paychecks
that could see up to a fifteen percent reduction, it's
the tax refunds as well. Many borrowers are going to
have their entire refund taken by the government come April,
(11:51):
and that's also going to be a rude awakening because
I think a lot I mean a lot of folks
they talk about how dependent they are on that sort
of cash and fusion in the spring because for what.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
The average tax refunds something like four thousand dollars. I
want to say, like, it's a lot of money. It's
a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And so obviously being in default is going to mess
up your credit score, but it's going to cause other
potential financial issues as well. And you know, we're not
going to weigh in on the issues of fairness, but
either way, the goal is to get out of student
loan payment default quickly. Switching repayment plans that might be
your best bet if you are having a difficult time
paying every month. We'll link to the Department of Education
(12:28):
Loan Simulator and it's got a few different options there
where you can sort of see what your options might be.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, and you can object, by the way, if you
think that the delinquency is an error. But what's I
think is it five million borrowers Matt who find themselves
like something like two hundred and seventy plus days behind again.
I get it, the whiplash and the well, your student
loans even a thing anymore? Like that's the way it
felt two years ago. Yes they're a thing, and yes
(12:55):
repayments have started. And if you find yourself by the
way between a rock and a hard place with very
little help from a gutted education department, well then you're
gonna want to consider potentially more drastic measures. In particular,
we're actually seeing more student loans being discharged via bankruptcy.
A simpler process was essentially introduced under the Biden administration,
(13:16):
and it's starting to bear fruit for some borrowers who
go to court in an attempt to get their loans dismissed. Outright,
it's obviously a drastic measure, but at least for some
who meet what's known as the undue hardship framework, who
kind of check a few different boxes and can prove
basically that their student loan payment is completely unaffordable, they
can have the balance essentially eradicated. This might be at
(13:41):
least for some people who are significantly struggling, who really
cannot afford to pay that student loan balance, that might
be their most realistic shot at ditching it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, and it's interesting though the quote unquote undue hardship
framework is not clearly defined as to what that means.
And so if you are looking to have your student
loans discharged like that and bankruptcy, well, just know that
it's still the wild wild West. And I wanted to
mention too, if here's some.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
People who specialize in that, like student loan lawyers. I
literally subscribe to an email newsletter of a student loan
lawyer because he has such a great insight on this front.
And you might find that you need the help of
a professional. And even then, right, it's still not one
hundred percent surefire that you're going to win. And maybe
you now owe lawyer's fees and you still are your
student loans, and so there's potential problem going that round
(14:30):
as well.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It takes a certain amount of insight and wisdom to know.
It's not a black or white answer. Yeah, this is
one where you kind of have to feel it out,
and I wanted to mention, like, if you have no
idea where it is that you should start. We've talked
with folks from Student Loan Planner before, and we'll link
to a resource in our show notes there as well,
because they can help you to put together a plan
and to figure out the best path forward for you
(14:51):
as an individual to not only get out of default,
but to really just be able.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
To tackle your student loans. That's we're spending money to
hire an expert. Can save you money. Attend helps actually
a lot more. Yeah, yeah, help you know that you're
on the right path.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Okay, So while we are talking about higher ed friend
of the show, Ron Lieber, he continues to document how
expensive college can be and specifically how to reduce the price,
which we love hearing that, but he has detailed how
hard it is to compare college.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Costs ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's you know, you're basically trying to compare apples oranges.
But there is this new.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Tool like opaque fruits too, Matt, like the you never
even heard of, Yeah, and what is this thing? And
that's because there's just so little transparency from many schools
about what they offer in terms of financial aid and
making that information public.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, you're trying to like you're trying to compare this
like ever crisp apple to this. Oh, this is a
mystery fruit. I've got no idea what this even is.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It's behind box number one.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But he recently wrote about this new tool from a
company called Niche that can help or niche depending on
how you like to pronounce it. But instead of going
to each college's net price calculator and in putting the
information directly, it can do it for you all in
one place, and then it can compare multiple schools at once,
which is fantastic because Man, keeping the price of a
(16:08):
four year degree down like it's more important than ever.
It's really crucial to making it a good investment. And
we'll make sure to link to.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
That as well. Man And we also have prior podcast
conversations with people like Jocelyn Pearson who can help you
wade through the looking for scholarship stuff, Like there's a
lot that you can do as an individual to go
out there and hunt for money where you think about
the hourly rate. Matt of like my nephew who's working
(16:37):
at a fast food chain right now, as I did
like in high school, and you don't get paid a
whole lot his time. An hour is worth nothing, very little,
and it's probably worth actually a lot more. And I've
talked about this with my sister, like, hey, what if
he took a few worked a few less hours and
spent those hours trying to hunt for scholarships. I like
(16:57):
the idea of doing both because I like the idea
of working in high school. But why Yeah, that's a
really smart thing to I think incentivize your kids to
do is to hunt for those scholarships, because if you
do it in the right way, you might find that
the return is significant. I love it. Also, more students
are opting to double major right now in an effort
to improve career opportunities. I've talked about how the job
(17:20):
market seems a little stagnant, and especially for recent college graduates,
it feels like there's or in reality, there's less hiring
going on. A lot of people who just got that degree.
They're like, where's my job? And they're having a lot
of time. There's a lot of uncertainty right now. Yeah. Well,
and the data seems to show that the double the
amount of students are getting two majors these days instead
(17:43):
of just one compared to ten years ago. Other statistics
show that folks with double majors are less likely to
lose their job, They're less likely to have their pay cut.
So I think there's a bunch of wisdom in the
choice of getting two majors instead of a major and
a minor. Double majoring. It requires more effort, it requires
more hours in a particular field of study. But it's
(18:05):
possible to pull it off without spending more time at
school or even forking over more money when you think
about them out what a full time student is. I
was talking about this with my daughter the other day.
Was twelve plus hours. But in school, there's a lot
of people who I knew and myself included, who were
taking nineteen twenty twenty one hours in a semester. And
you don't always you're not always paying per credit hour
(18:26):
as a full time student. Oftentimes you're paying a flat
tuition rate.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A lot of yeah, son of universities do that and
so take those extra classes, bring all that extra load.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Double majoring in four years is for sure possible if
you're a little more pedal to the medal, and then
think about that easier to get a job, easier than
to stay employed and get paid more as well.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's the big question, right, is that it's yeah, only
doing it for four years, it's still possible, But I
think it gets even harder for a lot of folks
as they pile on the hours because of the fact that,
like I remember, I mean, we'll think about AP classes too.
Think about kids graduating high school. Let's say they've passed
a four AP tests, they've got some of those credits.
Then it's even easier for those kids.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's even easier.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But like I mean, over the past decade two decades,
we've seen like it was a joke to be like, oh, yeah,
I'm on the five year program back when.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We're in college.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like I've talked with folks, and for a lot of
folks getting a four year degree, it's you can't call
it a four year degree. You call it an undergrad
of bachelor's and six years is the new standard. And
so we have seen some of that additional undergrad creep.
And so I think that's one of the big tricks too,
is to make sure, Yeah, you got to find that
(19:35):
balance between getting out of school on time. Maybe you
do want to stick around, Maybe there's still some maturation
that's taking place, and you're like, I don't know, I
think some more time hanging out here, yes, working, yes,
taking additional classes.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Maybe, and maybe you've got to hone my beer pond game.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Maybe it all bounces out in the end where Okay,
let's say you are there only six years and you've
got two degrees. I don't know, it's better than two
separate four year stints where you've got I'm saying the
numbers I guess could still be there even if you
are extending it out to six years you've double majored.
But it's certainly something to be aware of the fact
(20:12):
that it's more likely to extend your undergrad if you
were to double major and you got.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
To be you gotta be on top of that, you.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Got to you gotta be a little more prudent and
intentional with your time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I don't want to make it sound like it's easy,
right that anybody can double major in four years, but
I certainly think more people can and it might not
have to cost a bunch of extra money or time
if you're diligent. Right, that's true. All right, Slate Queen,
Matt I tossed it in now return queen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's the whole point is that you say it likes
Slate Queen, but you say retainly it's okay, I screwed up.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
All right, we got more to get to, including We're
gonna talk about President Trump's announcement about big Wall Street
firms not being allowed to invest in single family homes again,
what's our take on that. We'll talk about that and
more right after this. All right, buddy, we are back
(21:06):
from the break return Queen.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week,
which is from the Washington Post. Headline reads, Abandoning home
ownership may be changing how people behave at work and
at home. And basically this article was about some new
research based on renters who have essentially given up on
the idea of owning a home. There's this new study
(21:28):
from economists at Northwestern and University of Chicago. Real smart
folks when it comes to the numbers, but they find
that and this is a quote, when people conclude that
they will never be able to find a home, they
put less effort into their jobs. They tend to spend
more on luxuries and do less long term saving. Oh
and are more likely to invest in riskier assets such
(21:48):
as cryptocurrencies. Basically, if you don't think you can buy
a home, I'm just gonna roll the dice. When it
comes to all these and all the other arenas of life,
specifically with your personal finances. And yeah, what do you think, Joel?
I mean, I get it, you know, like it's totally
totally sucks. If this is the boat that you're in,
I understand that it can be painful.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I think it makes sense to me that people
would say, if I can't buy a home, then I'm
going to yolo some other stuff, right, like Yola, those investments,
And I'm just not even going to dedicate as much
money to savings because what am I saving for If
I'm a perpetual renter and I don't have a big
down payment I need to amass, then screw it. But
(22:29):
I also, I mean, I think it's a self perpetuating
problem too. I think we've been in a macroeconomic time
that has not been in recent years beneficial to people
who want to buy a home. And we'll talk about
kind of starter home single family homes in just a second.
But it makes sense that people feel like, because it
(22:51):
is harder to afford a home right now, that maybe
they'll never be able to afford a home. But I
also just think it's important to mention that those dynamics
and shift. Yeah, policy can change, right, And so if
you decide, oh, I'm probably never gonna go home, so
I'm not gonna save like I might be able to
at some point, You're you're doing future you a disservice,
(23:12):
and you're almost like baking into the cake ensuring but
you never will be able to buy it or guaring. Yeah,
you are guaranteeing it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
And essentially I feel like this study it takes more
of a linear or logical approach to how these twenty
thirty how are old, they are, how they're making their
financial decisions. Right, It's just like, oh, I can't afford
a home, therefore I will participate in these less smart,
more short term focused decisions riskier too, yeah exactly when
(23:40):
instead I think it could be a situation where maybe
it's the same folks who think that way are who
are focused on the short term, the near term. Those
are the same folks that are saying, oh, well I can't.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Afford a house.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, it doesn't surprise me that those same folks would
then say, well, yeah, I should be looking at how
to maximize happiness you know today that means going out tonight,
that means not saving for future me, And there's just
a short termism focus to someone. If that's how you're thinking,
it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't just impact how
it is that you're approaching housing, but that it approaches
(24:15):
how you perform at work, because if you are thinking
more long term with your job, you're thinking, no, I
need to put in the hours, the effort, the creativity
that's going to allow me to advance in this company. Oh,
if I want to be able to retire someday, that
means I need to set aside at least ten, if
not twenty percent of my ink of every single paycheck.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Like there is just a.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Maturation process, Like that's something we were talking about earlier.
But there's something about that that causes you to think
a little bit more long term beyond not just today,
beyond next year, but like years and even decades down
the road. Like that's the I think that's the biggest
difference here.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And I don't want to tell people who are renting
who wants own a home, like be okay with renting forever,
because I think that's not necessarily in the card. It's
like you might be able to buy a home at
some point.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And I think you very very well can and will. Oh,
and that's some point if that's something that you truly
do want to.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Do and if you're putting your money where your mouth is.
But I also want to say for people who are renting,
maybe for a time, it is actually a really good
financial thing for you. Like if you utilize the difference
between what you're paying in rent versus what you would
be paying on a mortgage if you were to buy today,
if you save that extra, like, you're gonna come out
further ahead actually financially, if you are a smart renter
(25:25):
being doing the right stuff with your money. Given kind
of the disparity between rents and mortgage payments right now.
Matte totally agree. But obviously one other side of the
equation that has kept housing unaffordable is mortgage rates. And yeah,
mortgage rates are higher, but we also kind of do
this to ourselves like a self inflicted wound. Most home
(25:48):
buyers don't shop around for a mortgage. Zillo just released
statistics something two thirds of people don't shop at all.
They literally just point at one mortgage lender and they're like,
I'm going with you, and this cost them huge money
over the life of their loan. We're talking about potentially
lowering it by shopping right by with three different lenders,
potentially lowering your rate by a full point, save you
(26:10):
hundreds of dollars a month, and then tens of thousands,
if not one hundred thousand dollars or more over the
life of your loan. This is this is one of
those things that I think, in my mind is non negotiable.
We talk about shopping around for little things online. If
you can save twenty bucks on a pair of jeans, cool,
But shopping around for a home loan, the stakes are
so much higher. So include a credit union in there,
(26:32):
Include a mortgage broker in there, Include maybe a local bank,
but just make sure you shop around, because yeah, the
savings can be meaningful.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, And I want to circle back to what you
were saying, as far as you're talking about banking, the
difference between your rent and what a potential mortgage might
be right, Like, you've got this, You're like, oh, great,
it is more affordable to rent. How is it that
I'm going to eventually be able to put down enough
money to purchase a home. It's those practical steps that
I think folks, if they don't, it's almost as if
(26:59):
because there's not something immediately in front of them that
they are pursuing a goal, whether it's like a vacation
or a very expensive purchase. You think, well, I'm not
going to want that thing we've talked recently about, like
the World Cup, thing like that. That's a bucket, like
a savings bucket that we have maintained because I'm thinking, oh, well,
at some point we're gonna want to spend that on something.
(27:20):
And it's something that we have slowly built up over time,
like literally we add fifty bucks to it every every
single month. That's what we've done over the past, like
I guess four years. But I think it's important for
folks to anchor the sacrifices that they're making today, those actions.
They need to anchor those actions to whatever potential goal
that you might have far off in the future, even
(27:40):
when that goal isn't clearly defined. I think for a
lot of folks, not having that clearly defined goal is
the biggest problem because once you have like wrapped your
mind around that, like, oh, I can picture myself like
whatever it is that you're going to do in your
new house, you know, like throwing the plane, fetch with
my dog in the backyard or sitting on the front
porch with my partner or inviting friends over to play
(28:02):
corn hole in the front of I don't know whatever,
like whatever it is, it's so much easier, I think
for folks to say I want that, yeah, And I
think the really hard part is to understand that, like
you don't have a specific vision for what that might
look like, but just know that it's like, I don't know,
it's like right around the corner.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And that's the it's hard to square that, I think
for a lot of folks. There's there's also a an
article about people moving to the Midwest more and more.
And so sometimes if you really if that dream of
home ownership is you're resolute in it, like this is
something I really really want, and you live in a
really high cost of living area, well, if home ownership
Trump's the particular place where you live, then you might
(28:40):
find that moving is the answer to at least part
of that conundrum. True.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Speaking of speaking of Trump, I know, I know you
wanted to touch on something he mentioned.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Let's do earlier this week, truth Truth to vout. I
believe the truth Truth social the an announcement that big
corporations are no longer going to be allowed to buy
single family homes and rent them out. And his he
basically said, people live in homes, not corporations. And Matt,
you and I actually have not talked about this yet together.
This is like, I think, kind of populist policy. I
(29:09):
can get behind the giant corporations owning single family homes
in greater numbers. They've led to rising rents in markets,
especially where these buying, these corporate landlords have been buying
in a concentrated way. It's led to a dearth of
starter homes for young buyers. Companies like invitation homes. They're
not great landlords either. We've seen a lot of horror
(29:31):
stories from tenants being like, yeah, they don't prepare anything.
There's mold all over the place. Some estimates show that
corporations own something like four percent of the overall single
family home rental stock in the country. Sounds like a
small amount, but I do think the impact of this
could be meaningful. But again, this is a this is
a truth social this is a social media post that
(29:52):
this will likely take an Act of Congress to make
it a law, and there's no silver bullet to rising
or to where home prices are right, Like, just this
one thing isn't going to magically make home prices back
to twenty twelve pricing affordability for people.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, but it is. We are never going to get
back there. Like that's the biggest difference. I mean truly,
you know, like like I don't see it, but I
don't see it happening. Better policy encouraging if more building
combined with this could all at least help make housing
more affordable for the average person.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, you want me to provide my counter? Aren't sure?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Because I mean, I think the biggest flaw with this
is the fact that it's it's just based on such
a scarcity sort of mindset, right, as opposed to the
exact opposite, Like we need abundance, right, Like that's a
word that we heard a ton of last year in
the ability line, the ability to and oh, Derek Toomas
on the show before Friend of the Show, but just
(30:51):
the ability to loosen building restrictions and provide more supply
for folks. I think that is much more of the
solution as opposed to three percent or three or four
percent of single family homes owned by corporations, like that
is such a small amount in.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Some markets were it's highly concentrated. Think like Atlanta. It's
about that in Atlanta too. No, it's more like ten
percent of it, is it? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Okay, so let's let's say ten percent. I know that
like Mama pop Landlord's own closer to like twenty years
and thirty percent. So, like, if you want to make
a bigger difference on the ability to free up starter
homes for folks single family homes these two ones, three two's,
then maybe like there should be something done about investors
who are looking to purchase some of these homes to
you know, further their financial position. It just it feels
(31:33):
like populist politics as opposed to actual policy that's going
to move the needle. And so in principle, just based
on like theoretical how are you approaching this problem framework?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
But also of course the fact that he's just like
I'm going to do this thing that's terrible politics, Like
is that even constitutional. We talked about student loans earlier,
the fact that previous administration said that, like we're going
to cancel student loans, and.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Even Speaker of the House was like.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, that's not constitution. We're going to do it anyway,
it's the same thing, and I hate that aspect of
how policy is being.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Pushed forward at least. And really what you're getting at
is supply side matters a lot more than trying to
coerce the details control and supply, Yeah, exactly. And if
we centivize more building, I think the greatest supply we
see is going to lead to reduced prices, especially in
some of those markets that are most desirable, which is
typically where it's harder to build than anywhere else exactly.
(32:29):
And in those cases, it's almost less about actually providing
incentives and just like loosening restrictions. Yeah, it's just generally speaking,
being less involved. But either way, July, I think we
can both both agree that the worst kind of home
buying or renting that you can do is buying a
time share, right, We an agreement there pretty much. Yeah,
(32:50):
according to Baron's time shares, they are making a comeback,
but there are plenty of problems with the business model
of time shares. That's the combination of high cost. It's
a combination of like that with low flexibility, bad resale
dynamics all added together make them pretty terrible. From a
(33:10):
this is a place that I want to put my
money and spend my time. They're incredibly hard to sell
if it turns out you don't love yours.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
And like if you think about getting into different types
of real estate and you've got an Airbnb, you've got
a Verbo rental, well, the pain is much less severe
if you want to unload that thing or even change
how it is that you are utilizing that space.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
If you even talk about just renting a place, you
run a place on Airbnb and it sucks, you leave
a bad review and you never stay there again. But
if you buy a time share and you hate it
like trying to get rid of it, it's like getting
an anvil off from the top of your head. Like acme.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'll talk about just from the standpoint of like, you've
got a space that you've poured money into and there's
options when you actually own it outright and when it
is yours.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But I hear what you're saying as well from a
do I like the space? YEA?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Like am I getting the value out of it that
I have wanted to or expect it to? So obviously
I'm not keen on them from a financial perspective. But
if you are listening and you're still interested because of
the almost immediate depreciation that a timeshare indoors. I think
buying a timeshare on their resale market is definitely going
to be a better way to go. And we're talking
(34:17):
about TUG classifies, It's the Timeshare Users Group, the Kasia Redwig.
These are all great resources if you're looking to get
a timeshare on the cheap.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, why it's spend twenty five grand on one when
you can get the same thing for pennies on the dollar.
Matt tails all the time. Overdraft fees got worse last year.
Not shocking, Yeah, I was surprised. It is worth noting
that's like every year on repeat. The big banks, though,
as it turns out, they don't make massive profits from
these fees. It's not like they're one of their bigger
profit centers, but they still add up, and they especially
(34:49):
hit consumers hard who are living on the margins, especially
when the average overdraft fee the average is something like
thirty five dollars and Matt the only big banks that
lowered over you almost everybody else raised them this past
year were Wells, Fargo and Truest. WHOA, let's say something
nice about Wells Fargo for the first time in the
history of this podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
This might be truly the first time we've said something positive.
Way to go, guys, proud of you. The best advice,
per usual, is to do your banking with one of
our favorite online banks. That's the assumption charge over draftees.
We've even seen some of them take away over draft
fees completely in recent years, Ally Discover c I, those
are some of the best. They don't charge over draft fees.
(35:29):
Do business with banks that don't hate you, and keeping
enough in your account to ensure that you don't overdar
your account. That's another yep, smart move. But yeah, well,
I've got a little confession to make so well you
specifically said Ally, and I've actually I can personally attest
to the fact that Ally doesn't charge over draft fees.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Do you have a recent a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Little story to share a little confession? Over the holidays,
I was like, you know what, I'm going to take
a serious break from email, Like I didn't even log
into my email for a solid week and a half,
almost two weeks, and I was in for a route
awakening when I logged back in and opened my laptop
and saw I was like, oh, what are these notices from,
not just ally but city.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh no, turns out.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
During that period of time, you know, I set I
scheduled my credit card payments for later in the month
at the end of the previous month, and I was
not paying close attention to my say spending slash checking
account there in ally, and it had dwindled dangerously low
solo in fact that the last payment to one of
(36:37):
my credit cards wasn't able to go through. And Ali
sent a kind little email and they said, hey, just
so you know.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Interact together.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
We're not going to charge you, but you might want
to check with the credit card issuer. And so, of
course that's the first thing I did, and was not
surprised to see that City hit me with a twenty
nine dollars return check fee.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
What did I do immediately? Joel, you called masked to
have it. Well, first, I sitting there on the computer.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well, it already made because there's another deposit that showed
up in the account, and it automatically fulfilled because it retries.
But still it doesn't erase the fact that they had
tried and got denied. They don't like that, and so
I fired up the chat was talking with somebody and
mentioned that and they're like, nope.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Sorry, not authorized to do that. And I was like,
oh really.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So I was like, okay, here's where you got to
step up the got to raise the stakes a little bit,
you know. And just I was like, well, I've been
a value member for so long, this has never happened
on the specific card.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And a little dot starts.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know, going across the little chat bot like letting
you know that they're typing something down. And basically they
said that they looked into it and they actually can't
do anything about that. They're not authorized. So I took
it up another level, dude. I took it till like
dropped it down to one. I think it's reversed, right,
And I said, well that's it. I want to cancel
this card. And I was shocked to see that. They said, okay,
(38:01):
would you like us to take care of that for
you today? And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
This isn't a real person, this is just a chatbot.
I thought I was talking to a real person. I
thought I was chatting with a real person. So maybe
you got to call the one hundred all right, So
that's what I did, and I was like, okay, I
thought I was gonna I gotta call up the number.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Lady picked up.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I kindly let her know what the situation was, expecting
it to be a big hassle, and she goes, sure,
I'll take care of that for you right now. And
I was I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I was dumbfounded. School.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It took me like twenty seconds literally talking. She was like, yep,
that'll show up on your statement here in three to
four business days or something like that. And uh, yeah,
it just goes to show for I feel like a
number of years you could hop on the online chat
and get fees like that reverse. But I wonder if
they're starting to tighten down a little bit because everybody's
using everybody was doing that, and so they're going to
make you pick up the phone. But I guess the
(38:51):
lesson is to not be afraid to talk to another human.
I like it, all right, all right, good job, well done, and.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Hopefully I won't run into an issue like that again
in this year. That's a good lesson for everyone. One
check your email a little more consistently other than every
twelve days. Make sure you got enough money in there,
and then hit the one eight hundred number if the
chatbot's not working for you, the real customer service. All right, Matt,
that's gonna do it. For this episode. We'll put links
to some of the resources we mentioned up in the
show notes on our site at howtomoney dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
That's right, and that's going to be it. We'll see
you back here on Monday with a fresh listener question episode.
But until then, best turns out, Best Friends Out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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