Getting a Deal on a Car Without the Headaches with LeeAnn Shattuck AKA The Car Chick #349

Our guest today is LeeAnn Shattuck, who is also known as The Car Chick. LeeAnn is passionate about educating consumers about cars and empowering them to make informed decisions when purchasing, selling, and servicing automobiles. She is an automotive expert and is a self-professed “car nut” and a champion race car driver as LeeAnn began learning high-performance driving at the age of 8. She took her passion surrounding cars from NPR on the radio and as the host of the nationally syndicated show: America’s Garage, to the Speed Channel on television. LeeAnn has a wealth of knowledge and experience when it comes to cars that we’re excited to get into and share today.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am
Matt and today we're discussing getting a deal on a
car without the headaches with LeAnn Shattuck, a k a.
The Car Chick. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our

(00:29):
conversation today with Lee and Shattuck. Who is the car Chick.
Leanne is passionate about educating people about cars uh and
empowering them to make informed decisions when purchasing, selling, and
servicing their their vehicles. Uh. So this is going to
be an extremely practical conversation today. She is an automotive
expert and a self professed car nut, as well as

(00:51):
a champion race car driver. As as Leanne began her
her high performance driving at the age of eight, she
was also a radio and television host. She's been on NPR,
the Speech Channel, and she was the host of the
nationally syndicated radio show America's Garage. So Leanne has a
wealth of knowledge that we are excited to get into.
So Leanne, thank you for joining us on the podcast today. Well,

(01:12):
thank you guys for having me. I'm glad to have
you Leanne. We're excited to chat about everything cars today.
But before we get to that. I wanted to ask you.
Matt and I we drink a craft beer in every
episode because we like beer a lot, and it's something
that we are willing to splurge on in the here
and now while we're trying to save and invest wisely
for the future. What is your splorage? What's your craft

(01:33):
beer equivalent? You know, if you'd asked me that question
before the pandemic, my answer probably would have been different.
But now my indulgence is on a service, not a product.
It's on food delivery. The pandemic has made me even
lazier when it comes to feeding myself. I don't like

(01:53):
to cook. I like to bake, but I don't like
to cook. So when I can get on my phone
and you know, press a few buttons and boom, food
magically appears on my doorstep. Wow, So my monthly budget
is going towards that quite a fair right now? Yeah?
It could. It could seriously take a bite out of
that monthly food budget. I wonder too. I'm curious if

(02:14):
you if you like baking, because baking is a very
precise thing. When it comes to automobiles, you know, there's
there's no wiggle room like something he's either correct and
dialed in I feel like, or it's not. You know,
there's there's not a lot of room for cooking in
your life, but I could see how baking might translate
to cars. Is that maybe accurate? Yeah, I think so,
in perhaps not as much towards cars, but simply to

(02:36):
my overall being a control freak. Well I was, I'm glad.
I was thinking that maybe for your sports you're gonna
say something along the lines of a car like I
like the fancist breakpads, or like only synthetic oil. I
don't know, but it's not that you have other things
you enjoy too. Those are valid points, and synthetic oil
is not really a splurge. It's better for the cars,

(02:57):
better for the environment. And break pad. Yes, I will
splurge on the really good break pads when I take
my car whose name is Maggie, by the way to
the track, because but that's not I don't consider that
a splurge. Break pads on the racetrack probably the most
important thing, So definitely yeah. Yeah, well, lean, you know

(03:19):
you just mentioned how your your car's name is Maggie.
You had a recent episode which is called straight Shift
by the way, about why people shouldn't name their car,
and so, you know, why do you feel that that's
so important for folks to do. I feel that if
you name your car, then it's part of the family
and you're more likely to take good care of it,
both mechanically and cosmetically. So I have named my cars

(03:40):
for years. It started when when I turned thirty, I
had my first midlife crisis and I bought a bought
a little red Porsche and I named her Penelope, and
kind that sort of started the trend. And so now
I name all my cars, and I'll name other people's
cars too if they don't, so be aware. I'll name
your cars if you don't name your own. So I
think that is such an interesting thing though. I think

(04:02):
you're right, because when we put a name to something,
it gives it like more weight in our life. And yeah,
we don't we want to treat our car as well,
because the better we treat them, the longer they last,
the more money we save, right absolutely, And it's safer
when your car is operating properly, that's truth. And you
got obsessed with car starting at age two, right is

(04:23):
that how early it started? I believe, so you'd have
to confirm with my mother. But that was at the
time when Disney came out with the Herbie the love
Bug movies that came out just before I was born,
and I just fell in love with that silly little Volkswagen.
And my neighbors had a Classic Beetles, so they were
classic then, they were new back then. I'm dating myself,

(04:45):
but yeah, they were very well, they're cute, but for
a two year old, it was an extremely recognizable shape
on the road, so I could always spot them, and
I loved orange e Volkswagons. So yeah, there's a reason
why punch Bug was a game. I mean, I don't
know if if you ever played that as a kid,
but I definitely did. Very recognizable. And yeah, that's so

(05:08):
funny because that car actually had a name as well.
But uh, you know, you're talking about how you take
care of your vehicle better, you know when when you
do name it. So let's let's talk about, yeah, taking
good care of your car. Lots of folks you know
probably aren't keen on, you know, trying to repair their
own vehicles. Do you feel that, you know, more of
us should be giving it a shot? And and and
if so, like, where should we even begin? When it

(05:29):
comes to maintaining our cars. These days, it's next to
impossible to maintain your own vehicle because cars today are
more computers in many ways than they are mechanical beings.
So unless you have the computers to communicate with your car,
even changing your own oil can be a challenge because

(05:50):
now it's not just about draining out the old oil,
changing the filter putting in the new oil. You have
to communicate with your car's computer to reset ten million
front parameters and we just don't have the computers to
do that. The shops do so. Plus it's not necessarily
cost effective to do for an oil change, you know,

(06:10):
spend your your sixty seventy bucks now, don't do the
nineteen dollar one unless your car takes the absolute cheapest
oil in the market. Do a good oil change, and
it just makes more sense. It's safer, it's better for
the environment to make sure it's disposed of properly, and
you also have a qualified mechanic looking at your car
to let you know, hey, is anything else wrong with it?
They should be performing that safety check every time they

(06:33):
touch your car. That being said, finding a good mechanic
that you can trust can be also be a big challenge. Yeah,
so that's actually I want to ask you about that
because it can be I think a lot of people
obviously it's it's daunting to do much work on your car,
especially modern cars. Like I remember twenty years ago trying
to replace my own alternator, and it was a little

(06:53):
bit easier back then than it is to do work
on on some of the newer vehicles that are out there.
But let's say you are trying to find a mechanic
that you can trust that is going to be able
to work on your vehicle for years and years to come, Like,
how do you find a really good one? That's challenging.
The first thing you have to do is start with
finding a shop that is qualified to work on the

(07:15):
type of vehicle that you have. Not all shops have
the same training, not all shops have the same equipment.
If you've got something like a Honda or a Toyota,
it's a little bit easier because those cars are engineered
with maintenance in mind. The Japanese are great at that,
so they're a little bit easier to work on. If
you've got a German car, forget it. You have to

(07:36):
take it to a German qualified specialty shop because the
computers to speak to the German cars are extremely expensive.
They require a lot of very specialized tools to change
out the parts, and it takes more in depth training.
German cars are just over engineered. They can be very
very fun as a result, but they're also a royal

(07:57):
pain in the butt to work on. So you have
to find a shop that has the equipment and the
train technicians to work on the type of vehicle that
you have, and some of the best ways to do
that is to ask people you know who have similar cars, Hey,
where do you go? Who do you trust? There's so
much turnover in the automotive service industry. I mean, we

(08:18):
can do a whole podcast on why I think the
automotive service industry is completely broken. But there's a lot
of turnover in the mechanics. So finding that one person
you trust and going to them for twenty years that
just doesn't happen is easily anymore. So it's a little
bit more challenging. But one find a shop that specializes
in the type of car that you have, or take
it to the dealership, or find a shop and a

(08:40):
technician who is a s E Master certified. The a
s C is a certification board. Mechanics have to take
a number of tests to be able to get those certifications,
and it really demonstrates their knowledge and their experience. So
that's my recommendation. I found one and I married him
because I do want to let it get away. So
that really smart. I should have married my mechanic a

(09:02):
long time. Again, that's not doing wrong. Yeah, there's actually
a mechanic uh here in Atlanta called my Mechanics a woman.
Is that what it's called. There's a favorite mechanic is
a woman. Yeah. I actually know the owners their franchise. Yeah,
we we connected about oh gosh, probably back in two
thousand eight, two thousand nine, because we found each other online.
And yeah, I'm really impressed with with what she's done.

(09:24):
And there are more and more women getting into the
industry and they are doing things very, very differently. They're
turning the model upside down. And most of the women
owned shops that I know do a great job. They're
just few and far between. Yeah, that's cool, all right.
So before you even buy a car, how much are
you looking into the potential repair costs? Of that car model.

(09:45):
Because you talked about German cars being fun to drive.
Over engineered, it's probably gonna cost you more to get
that repaired. So how much should people be looking to
the likely repair costs of a specific make and model
that they're considering purchasing before they actually pulled the trigger.
If it's a vehicle that they plan to keep past
the warranty period, you're really past fifty miles, which is

(10:06):
when you start to get into a little bit more
in depth maintenance and potentially more expensive repairs. Even the
cost of replacing tires, especially on the SUVs that have
the larger wheels, your twenty inch wheels, you're twenty one
inch wheels. Go and check out the price of those tires. Sometime.
It's a little bit frightening. They are not cheap the
bigger you get. So if you're planning to keep the

(10:27):
car longer term, you know you're not leasing, or you're
not somebody who flips cars every three or four years,
then it's definitely a consideration. When I'm working with my
clients on figuring out what's the perfect car to buy
for them, that's one of the things that we look at.
We look at their priorities, and if long term low
maintenance costs are high on their priority list, then you

(10:48):
know number one, that pretty much eliminates anything German and
we start looking at Okay, well, let's start looking at
the Japanese cars as opposed to the American cars through
the European cars. So yeah, for that reason, that's why
I plan on keeping our Honda many Van for like
twenty years. We're not gonna that thing is not gonna
go anywhere, uh Lee. And I'm also curious to you,
I mean, you mentioned you kind of teas to the

(11:09):
fact that the you know, like the entire maintenance profession
mechanics like that, how that whole system is kind of broken.
Can you just, you know, kind of briefly explain why
it is that that's kind of that's just maybe not
working out. Absolutely. The mechanics, most of them at most shops,
are paid by the job, and so a job like
say a break job on this particular make and model,

(11:32):
there are book times for how long the industry thinks
that job should take, and that's how much the mechanic
is paid, regardless of how long it actually takes to
do that job. And so that means the mechanics are
incented to work really, really fast, and the only way
for mechanics to make money and to make and even

(11:55):
an okay living is to be fast. And then you
look at the dealerships in the shops, they need the
mechanics to be fast too, because they need to make
that money by moving cars through their shop quickly. And
so we we have a joke in the industry there
are three types of jobs. You can pick only two

(12:16):
of them. It can either be cheap, fast, or good,
but not all three. And unfortunately, the good is often
what gets sacrificed because the mechanics are financially incented to
cut corners and to move fast, and it's just it's
really hard, and it's one of the reasons there's a
lot of turnover. Two is because you know, they're pressured

(12:38):
now they're waiting on parts to come in. You know,
does the customer even authorize the work. There's a lot
of downtime. So for a mechanic to actually get paid
for forty hours a week, he's probably working six sixty five.
It's not a lifestyle that a lot of people are
happy with. And so the mechanics switch shops all the
time trying to find the grain or grass on the

(12:58):
other side of the fence, and it's just not And
that's why my husband left the industry last year entirely.
It's just he's a perfectionist too, and you can't make
money as a perfectionist in that industry, in the traditional
retail service industry. So it's kind of sad. Yeah, it's sad,
but I mean, it makes sense why you you have
that burnout, and makes sense to why so many folks
have been in lots of situations where you go into

(13:19):
a shop, you have your car worked on, and then
your car starts, you know, unfortunately messing up. We have
some friends and they're very I mean a few days
later they're on the side of the road side of
the interstate because their car had overheated after having been
worked on. Unfortunately. It seems like a lot of times that, yeah,
subpar work is being performed, but it's also good to
know why that is. Yeah, And it's also people need

(13:41):
to as car owners, need to be more responsible. A
lot of the times, paying for auto repairs is not
what you would call fun. It's not something that people
look forward to in their monthly budget. So a lot
of times they say no to things that their car
really needs, either because they don't want to spend the money,

(14:02):
or perhaps they don't trust that the mechanic is being
honest with them about what it needs. And in that case,
I advise people ask them to show you what they're
talking about. Ask them to be very very specific. If
they say a fluid needs to be changed because it's dirty,
you need a transmission fluid change, have them show you
a sample the fluid. If the fluid is brown, then yes,

(14:24):
it absolutely needs to be changed, and you don't mess
with that if you want your car to last. You know,
if they say you need new breaks, well, then ask well,
how much friction material is left on my pads. You'll
find that it's a little more difficult for them to
lie to you when you're asking for specific quantitative information.
And you know, if they say, hey, yeah, let me

(14:45):
show you, then then you know you can trust them.
So it just takes a little bit more digging. And
if it's a larger repair, feel free to get a
second opinion, just like you what if you've got a
diagnosis from your doctor. There's nothing wrong with getting a
second opinion. Not all mechanics are created equal. There is
a huge range of skills and experience, and especially when

(15:07):
it comes to more complicated repairs and diagnostics, So it
never hurts to get that second opinion, even if you
end up paying another, you know, seventy bucks for another diagnostic,
it's worth it to know what your car actually needs
and what it doesn't. Yeah, especially before one of those
really big expensive repairs. And also too, we've talked about
this on the show before, it's important to budget for
those car expenses because yeah, it's it's uh, it's frugal,

(15:31):
not cheap, to to be able to actually put money
towards those car expenses that you're not stuck with something
even more expensive, even more expensive repairs. Further on down
the line, Um, hey, lem, we've got a couple more
questions to get to. We want to talk actually about
buying a car and and in particular like some of
the changes that COVID has had in the car market,
and we'll get to some questions on that right after

(15:52):
this break. All right, we are back. We're talking with
Lee and Shattuck about car stuff basically, and Lean's the
car chicks. She knows all about vehicles and before we
dive into new cars, Lee, and let's talk about COVID.

(16:14):
You know, the car market, car production, it's shifted quite
a bit because of COVID. What has happened and how's
it that that you think consumers should respond to that? Well,
to say that the industry is a little bit of
a mess right now would probably be an understatement. We
need to step back a year and look at what

(16:34):
happened when this whole pandemic first hit the United States
and we started these lockdowns, And depending on where you
are in the country, the lockdowns were more severe than others,
and some dealerships were closed. In some places they weren't,
but nobody was going out. Literally, last April, I was
the top ranking salesperson for one of my local Subaru dealerships.

(16:57):
I literally sold more cars for them than any of
their sales people did because nobody was going into the dealerships,
so they had a lot of supply building up. And
the dealers were freaking out because they're like, we're not
selling any cars, and but the manufacturers were still producing
them and wanting the dealers to take more inventory. And
then he was like, we can't take any more inventory.

(17:18):
We haven't sold what we had. But what happened was
the manufacturers released a lot of good incentives, most of
them being financial, with five even six years zero percent financing,
sometimes delayed payments for people that might be a little
financially wary about their future with the pandemic, and so

(17:38):
there were some good incentives out there for the people
who did have a little more financial security. And so
when the restrictions started lifting and people were able to
start going out a little bit, and this really happened
in about June, it didn't take very long. Especially in
the South. There was a lot of pent up demand
and so everybody rushed stout to take advantage of those

(18:02):
great deals that were out there, and we saw this
massive swing from a too much supply to not enough
supply because also last spring production at all the manufacturing
plants all over the world shut down at least for
a certain amount of time. And you have to remember

(18:22):
the car industry is completely global, So your car may
be built in Kentucky or in Germany or in Japan,
but the parts that go into making that car are
sourced globally. So the plant might have been open, but
they couldn't get these ten important parts from this other
country that was still shut down. So it's been a
huge mess and we've been trying to get production caught

(18:45):
up with the demand. Was a record sales year in
the automotive industry and they literally sold out of everything.
And we are still seeing in inventory shortage across pretty
much all of the main facturers. Depends on the make
a model and where it's produced. But what's hurting us
now there's a global shortage of superconductors computer chips. Guys,

(19:10):
we can't build cars without computer chips. There are hundreds
of computer chips in every car, and because there's a
global shortage of those, most of which are manufactured in China,
we're still seeing production delays and slowdowns because we can't
get the durned chips to put in the cars. It's crazy. Yeah,
I think I saw that. Yeah, Once the car industry

(19:31):
kind of shut down, you know, all these chip makers
were like, we got all these chips, and then all
the electronics companies and industries basically jumped on and pounced
because it's like, oh, we'll take those chips. A matter
of getting the car industry back, you know, it's like
a massive freight train difficult automotive industry has to compete
with the consumer electronics industry for those same computer chips.

(19:54):
And how many people have gotten new phones, iPads, laptops,
tame consoles, anything to keep ourselves connected in school, working,
insane during the pandemic. Yeah, it's true. Uh, Leon, let's
talk more about car buying. Two. You had an interesting
post not too long ago on your site about buying
a new car versus buying a used one, And that's

(20:17):
just like a fascinating topic, especially for a personal finance show.
And one of the stats that you mentioned in that
article was pretty fascinating. Most people own thirteen cars over
their lifetime, you said, each one costing on average about
thirty dollars. So there's obviously just a ton of money
at stake in a decision about whether you're going to
buy a new or a used car. So what tips

(20:38):
do you have for someone who's trying to decide, like,
should I be going into the new car marketplace looking
for a deal there, or should I be trying to
get a car that's four or five six years old
in order to save some money? Absolutely, and you need
to start with looking at what your priorities are. The
new versus used business case is not as and dry

(21:00):
as it was even ten years ago, and part of
that has changes in the marketplace have driven up the
cost of used cars. But one of the biggest things
that affects it is the prevalence of technology. Since about
sixteen the bells and whistles, the technology that's gone into
cars has changed dramatically, between all the driver's safety technology,

(21:24):
which is one of the biggest desires of consumers right
now too, a lot of the what they now call
the infotainment system. Again, your car has become an extension
of your cell phone with the implementation of Apple car
Play and Android Auto. So you really need to look
at what your priorities are and if having some of
those technology features is really important to you, then you

(21:46):
may be looking at a newer vehicle. Again, you have
to look at the inventory situation the car that you want.
There may not be any right now. You may have
to wait. I'm working with a client right now, she's
very interested in a Nissan Morano. Inventory on those is
pretty short, but the car hasn't changed significantly in the

(22:07):
last couple of years. And this morning, actually I found
a twenty nineteen certified pre owned model that had been
a late entry into the dealer's demo and loaner fleet.
It has less than three thousand miles on it, and
we're gonna be able to save about thirteen thousand dollars
off the original sticker. Sounds awesome, and being certified it

(22:29):
has a longer powertrain warranty, so she's really going to
end up better off overall. It's not just about the money.
You need to make sure that you're going to be
able to get the features that you want to have,
But you look at potentially a certified pre owned model,
look for those dealer demos or loaners. Got to think
outside the box sometimes and really look to see what's
out there, and you may be able to save some

(22:51):
good money if you can find one of those diamonds
in the rough, the little gems that were the dealer
loaners or demos. Right. Yeah, So, I mean basically, what
you're saying is you start with your priorities. But what
if I mean, what if your priority is primarily money?
Is primarily financial? Like, what if you are trying to
avoid spending a lot of money or you're just trying
to spend as little money as possible, Like, how how

(23:11):
should you think about a new car versus a used
car when you're primarily looking at the dollars and cents.
There's two things you have to look at. One, you
need to look at that initial deppreciation on the car.
The old adage of well, it loses half of its
value the minute you drive it off the lot. That's
not really true anymore. Cars are holding their value better
again because of the inventory situation and the overall market dynamics.

(23:33):
But there is still that initial appreciation. So if you
look at here's the cost of a new one, and
see obviously what you can negotiate to get on that.
If there are large incentives in play, you may be
able to get a great deal. If there is a
pretty good depreciation and things like you your high line cars,
you know, the swanky ones, the BMW, the Lexus, the Mercedes,

(23:56):
there tends to be a higher initial appreciation on those cars.
American cars tend to have a hirghed appreciation. Hannas and
Toyotas they tend to hold their value a little bit better.
So you may only be saving two thousand dollars by
buying a used Toyota versus buying a new one. It
really depends on the exact making model. But look at
what that initial appreciation is. If you're looking at what

(24:17):
I call a slightly used or a gently used car.
If you're looking at saving more money and you have
a little more conservative budget, then you're most likely going
to be looking used anyway. And then it's a matter
of looking for a good quality car, a card that
you know, like something like a Toyota that has a
good reliability history, and you can buy one that's six
years old that has been well maintained and now that

(24:40):
it's going to be fine and will cost you less
in the long run. But there's a trade off between,
you know, the the age and the amount of money
you're going to have to spend on repairs. So obviously,
if you are looking used, look for one that's been
well maintained and look for a model that has a
good history of reliability. I tell people that I would
rather buy I a well main chained Toyota that has

(25:03):
twenty thousand miles versus maybe you know a car that
doesn't have as good of a reliability history American counterpoint
that has seventy miles, So it's more than just the
pure numbers. You gotta look at your apples and your
oranges and see what quality you're getting for that money.
All right, So let's say somebody is saying, you know what,
for me, buying a new car makes sense, that's the

(25:25):
direction I want to go in. But they want to
get the best deal possible. Do you have a process
that you suggest to people in order to score a
good deal on a new car while at the same
time not wanting to beat your head against the wall,
like going into the dealership and and like, that's the
worst thing you could do, right is it sounds like
the worst weekend of my life? How to do that?
Have your partner spouse drop you off at the dealership

(25:46):
and be like, good luck, make it happen, give us
a car today. Like, that's not how you want to
do it? How do you want to do it? It's
really not. Step one is always tould do your homework.
The great news is the internet is a wealth of information.
On the flip side, the downside is the Internet is
a wealth of information and it could be difficult to
weed through that. So you know, I like sites like Edmonds.

(26:08):
I use consumer reports to look at quality issues over time,
but there's a lot of good information out there to
tell you what you really should pay for a car,
depending on the incentives that are in play. And then
you have to look at the market too, because if
the market is really hot. For example, the Kia tell
Your Ride been the hottest sub on the market for
the last two years since they came out. Not only

(26:31):
do you usually have to wait to get one, but
the dealers are charging five and six thousand dollars over
M S r P and getting it because the demand
far exceeds the supply. So you have to do that
research first to know even what the playing field looks like.
And then you want to shop around, and there is
no reason you cannot do that from your pajamas, in

(26:54):
the comfort of your own home. Even before the pandemic,
this is how I have done this. My business, Mottle
literally has not changed one iota since the pandemic hit.
I've always shopped for my clients from home all over
the country. So that allows you to reach out to
five or six dealers, even reach out to a dealer
that's not necessarily in your geography if there are a

(27:16):
couple hours away, they may still do a free home
delivery for you, especially now that they figured out with
the pandemic, you can really do that. So keeping them
honest and shopping it around and really comparing all those deals,
not just the price of the car that you're buying,
but make sure you get what we call in the
industry and out the door number that includes your taxes,

(27:37):
your tags, any fees. This is where you're gonna see
when they try and sneak that stupid thousand dollar protection
package into the deal and things like that. So you've
got to look at the true out the door numbers,
and then you're comparing more apples to apples, and then
you can play them off of each other, and whoever
brings the best deal and the best customer experience to

(27:58):
the table is the one you can give your business
too nice And is that a standard number? Right? Is
that sort of like on a loan origination form, like
when you're getting a mortgage where it allows you to
compare dealerships to dealerships, that that out the door number. Yeah,
it does, because that's your your total do at signing
and that's really the last the bottom number on that

(28:19):
quote sheet or the buyer's order. Always ask for a
buyer's order because that shows the out the door numbers
and that's the breakdown that you will see it delivery,
and it's a legal document, so that will help you compare.
Sometimes they have different things on different lines and they
call things differently, and even now I have to ask
what is this? And they have some fees that you've

(28:39):
never heard of before in your life. Right, Well, sometimes
they just call it different things, And especially when I'm
shopping across states, the rules are a little bit different,
and so in some states they might call it this
or call it that. So I just always always ask
and get clarification. Yeah, I just want to get that
bottom the bottom line number. What's what's the deal? As
far as with dealerships and like maybe buying a car
at the end of the month or versus like at

(29:00):
the end of the year, is there any advantage to
you know, when you would buy a vehicle, there can be.
Dealers obviously have quotas that they need to meet both
on the new and use side. On the new side,
it's a little bit more important because the number of
cars that they sell that month determines how many cars
they get their allocations for future months, as well as

(29:23):
things like marketing dollars from the manufacturer. The dealership is
a franchise of that manufacturer, and that franchise or franchise
the relationship has a lot of things going on in
the background, money going back and forth. So the dealers
definitely want to make their quotas by the end of
the month, make those sales goals so that they can
get those incentives from the manufacturer. And that's why they

(29:47):
will even sometimes take a loss on a deal because
they're looking at the bigger picture and they want that
bigger numbers. So you can work with that pressure. Just
don't wait until the very last minute. One of my
rules for car buying is that it is a process,
not an event. So if you wait till the last
day to start, then you're probably gonna have to settle

(30:08):
for a car you didn't want. You're going to be
there all day and you may or may not have
gotten the best deal because you didn't give yourself time
to do the homework and shop around. But at the
end of the month and sometimes at the end of
the year, you can get some really good deals. Just
also be aware that the car that you want they
may have sold out of them. Always be aware of
the inventory situation, especially if you're looking at the model

(30:29):
you're change over. They stop production on the old models
and start ramping up production on the next year's models,
and there's usually this kind of gray area in between
where sometimes they run out of inventory and now there's
nothing to buy until the new ones come out and
you miss the good deals. Gotcha. I want to know
your take two lean on electric vehicles where obviously we're

(30:51):
seeing a lot of manufacturers shifting a lot of their
production or all of their production towards electric vehicles. So yeah,
what's your opinion do you think more people should be
considering and EV these days? And in your in your opinion,
is it more of a gamble even to buy a
new gas vehicle right now as evs are kind of
starting to become a major threat. I don't think it's

(31:11):
a problem buying a gas vehicle now. We are still
a number of years away from Number one, the technology
in the e V vehicles to make them reliable, to
really maximize that driving range, and also the infrastructure to
support them. If you live someplace like Los Angeles, you

(31:33):
can plug in your car pretty much at any Starbucks.
They have a great infrastructure for that, so looking at
an electric vehicle makes a little more sense out there.
Keep in mind, the vast majority of electric vehicles out
there are still much more expensive than their gas powered
or even hybrid counterparts. The technology is still new, and

(31:56):
believe me, they are still working out the kinks. So
if you do choose to buy an electric vehicle now,
be aware that you're going to be a little on
that bleeding edge of that technology and expect to potentially
spend some time sitting in the dealership while they figure
out what's wrong with it and how to fix it.
If you live someplace, you know, like you know, we're
in the South, you guys are what in Atlanta? I'm

(32:17):
in Charlotte. We don't have that infrastructure yet. We have
a handful of stations where you can plug your car in.
I think we have one Whole Foods here in town. Literally,
I think we have one. Maybe there's two now, but
it's we're still so far behind the times here that
for most people in electric car is not necessarily the

(32:41):
most practical thing to support their lifestyle. So yeah, I
really have to look at that. If you're gonna be
doing a lot of long road trips. We don't have
the infrastructure across the country on our freeway systems like
we do gas stations, So the last thing you want
to do is be heading over the river and through
the woods to Grahama there's house for the holidays, and

(33:01):
you run out of electricity. So if that happens, right,
But even they can't they can't recharge your electric car, right,
that's a completely different ballgame. So depending on where you
live and what your lifestyle looks like. If you just
tool around and have a fairly short commute and you're

(33:23):
living in a very urban environment, it can be a
good idea. Just if you're doing it to save money,
then really look at the business case between what's the
initial costs of that electric car versus how much am
I really saving on gas? That business case is usually
not there. But if it's something like, hey, I want
an electric car, I'm looking towards the future, then then

(33:45):
that might be something to consider. I tell my clients
in the Southeast, and we're not quite there yet, guys.
I even recently just talked to a client that I
have out in Los Angeles out of it because it's
just not the right decision for her. Right now, but
probably in three to five years it might be the
right decision for Yeah. Not only that, the technology will
have gotten better too, and I'm sure we're gonna see
ranges continue to continue to climb all those batteries. So Leanna,

(34:08):
we're gonna talk more about buying cars, specifically use cars, uh,
and the potential pitfalls of of leasing a vehicle. We're
gonna get to all that right after the break. All right,
we're back to the break. We're talking about car stuff

(34:30):
with the car chick Lean Shattuck Lean. I want to
ask you about leasing because as personal finance nerds over here,
when someone asks us about leasing a car, it kind
of makes us shutter a little bit. The the expenses
can be great, and there are some pitfalls when to
consider when you're considering leasing too. So what do you
suggest to folks who are thinking about leasing a car

(34:51):
as opposed to buying one. Leasing is a lifestyle choice.
It's it's not a financial strategy for buying a car.
It really is for people who like to have the
latest and greatest thing every few years. They don't like
dealing with the long term maintenance costs, so it's something

(35:11):
that they have to make the personal choice in their
own overall financial plan. And I always tell people I
am not a financial planner. I do not play one
on TV. And yes, all of the financial gurus like
you guys will say, you know, long term, it's not
a smart financial strategy. But for me, for people this
is just what they love to have a new car

(35:33):
every few years, and it's something that they plan for
in their finances. I have no problem with it so
long as they are not driving a bazillion miles year.
And that's where most people get into trouble with leasing.
The average commute and an annual mileage for people is
really about fifteen thousand miles year, not the ten to

(35:53):
twelve that it used to be. And so I quiz
my clients very very detailed level of quizzing. So how
you really have to know how many miles a year
do you drive? You think that's going to change? And
obviously the pandemic has thrown that out because I don't
know about you guys, but I've gotten about three months
to the gallon right now. It just as a lifestyle,

(36:16):
it's not it shouldn't be a financial strategy if you're leasing,
so that you could afford this car. You're looking at
too much car, You're just asking for trouble. It's gonna
be interesting going forward because now that more and more
people are working from home, and I think a lot
of industries and businesses are going to continue this virtual
or part time virtual model because they realized they can
save money on their office expenses by letting people work

(36:38):
from home. I wonder if our annual mileage will drop
in many cases and that will make leasing more attractive
to a larger portion of the population that you should
drive too much. But now they're like, hey, I work
from home three days a week, maybe I can lease
this nicer car. Yeah. I love what you said there
about it being a lifestyle decision, right, because yeah, it's
never gonna probably make sense from a financial standpoint. But

(36:58):
there's a lot of things that we do that we
do because we really enjoy them and to us, you know,
that's why again we call it our craft beer equivalent.
But if cars, if if having the latest and greatest
car is your craft beer equivalent, then does it financially
make a lot of sense? No? But you know what,
neither does a nice beer Because water is virtually free
and it hydrates me almost just as well. And calories,

(37:21):
that's your calories, but it doesn't have the delicious flavor
to the company. But yeah, let's let's talk more a
bit about buying used cars. What what are your best
tips for for folks out there to protect themselves from
buying a car you know that have a ton of problems,
get a pre purchase inspection by a qualified mechanic. I

(37:43):
can't tell you how often and how loudly I preached
this back when my husband was still working as a mechanic.
We would just smack our heads into the wall with
a number of people that would come into have a
used car that they had just bought, inspected and lo
and behold it was a pos that needed six thousand

(38:04):
dollars worth of repairs just to make it safe to
drive off the parking lot. And they thought they got
a deal, but they didn't. Well, people just don't realize.
And now, one of the challenges with some of the
changes we're seeing on the used car side over the
last few years, I'm sure you guys have seen the
number of online only car dealerships that are cropping up

(38:27):
where you just go online and you pick out the
car and you do all the paperwork online and then
the car shows up at your doorstep and you have
never seen it, you have not touched it, you have
not driven it, and you can't. You have to buy
it first, and then you're allowed to test drive it,
which is just so backwards to me. I understand the

(38:49):
convenience of it, and I commend those companies for their
innovative business model, but what at least they have the
excellent return policy right they do that? That is that
is a big plus factor. It does kind of give
you the chance to do an extended test drive. It
does keep in mind that window is only about five
to seven dates. And so what I suggested people if

(39:11):
they are going to look at going with one of
those companies, they need to as soon as they know
when the vehicle is going to be delivered, set up
that prepurchase inspection or in this case it is a
post purchase inspection. But make that appointment with your mechanic
to get it inspected right away before you get too
far into that window and you run out of time.

(39:34):
It's just something that requires a little bit more planning,
a little bit more discipline. And of course these companies
are relying on the fact that probably nine of the
people that buy their cars are not going to be
disciplined enough to do that, and therefore we'll not return
the cars. Yeah, that's I think that's totally true. I
think that's it that you know, they can say. And
and the thing is too, like those periods of time,
like those return windows are getting longer and longer. But

(39:57):
I think they're essentially counting on the fact that folks
won't go through the hassle over turning it. They're kind
of turning a blind eye to maybe a problem that
they think might be there because they just don't want
it to be so they pretend it's not there. But
it kind of makes me think of just like the mattresses,
all these online mattress retailers and some of these companies.
You can return your mattress after a year, but like

(40:18):
here's the thing, who's going to actually say, Okay, yeah,
you know what, this mattress isn't really working out. It
actually makes my back hurt. Like after a year, you're
kind of committed to it, and uh, it's like there's
there's a mental hurdle to sending it back. And I
think the same thing could be true when it comes
to these like Carbonna. Like in certain instances, we feel
that carbon It could be a good option for folks,
but that's only if you actually are willing to send

(40:40):
it back or have them make a repair. That's actually
something that I was able to do is get Carbonna
to pay for the timing belt to be repaired and
replaced on our van. But yeah, I think a lot
of folks may not be willing to do that. That
was and that was a six repair that Matt, Yeah
nine hunter. Whatever was that that Matt was able to
get Carbonna to pay for because he did have a
mechanic check it out. And that is like number one

(41:03):
step right to make sure that you're buying a decent car, uh,
not a car with a lot of problems. Yeah, definitely.
And if you're shopping for a used car, one of
the things that often you have to do to find
a good one is find a car outside your geography.
So places like auto Trader, cars dot com, those conglomerate websites,
those portal sites, they're great for finding what you're looking for.

(41:25):
And if you find something that is two or three
hours away but looks like it would be perfect, there
are companies that you can hire that will do a
prepurchase inspection for you so you don't have to be there.
I work with the Lemon Squad. I've had a great
relationship with them since they started, and I can send
them to anywhere in the country and I have used

(41:48):
them from New York to California, and they send out
a certified mechanic. They have a very detailed process. Then
they post a report and they literally send me over
a hundred pictures and they're very, very detailed pictures. Some
of them I have to look at and I'm like,
what the heck is that? That's the backside of the
exhaust manifold. Well, that's really cool. Okay, there's no rust

(42:11):
on it. Excellent. You might have to know what you're
looking at. But I have used them very successfully and
it allows me to shop for clients all over the
country and it really helps reduce the risk. So I
I highly recommend taking advantage of companies like that. If
you're looking at a used car that's not in your
local area that you can physically pick up and take
to your mechanic and so you missoned the Lemon Squad.

(42:34):
Is that a company that just typical consumers can use
as well. Yeah. Absolutely, lemon squad dot com. I absolutely
love them and best branding ever, right, yeah, right, you
want to avoid the Lemon So he speaking of risky
ways to purchase a car. Maybe we've got some friends,
I know, Matt, what We've got one friend in particular
who likes to buy his cars at auctioned auctions, and

(42:55):
it's it seems like a great way to potentially save
some money. But there's got to be some downsides there, right,
because you you don't really have the chance to get
that prepurchase inspection if you're buying in an auction. That's correct,
and the term buying at auction can mean a few
different things because there's a lot of different types of auctions.
There are the majority of auctions out there are dealer auctions,

(43:16):
and you have to have a dealer's license to be
able to go there and to buy cars through there.
It's what all the dealerships across the country use. And
in the past I have worked with dealers because I
don't have a dealer's license. I am what's considered a
buyer's agent, but I have great relationships and there may
be two dealers in the entire United States that I
actually trust to go look at cars at auction for

(43:37):
me because there's picky as I am. But we used
to do that back in the day. But really since
two thousand nine when the market really shifted, we used
to see ten thousand cars go through a single day
at an auction like the one in Atlanta, are the
ones in Florida, and we had a lot of great
choices for cars, especially looking at the the off lease cars.

(44:00):
Since the used car market change, now you might see
two to three thousand go through and half of them
are total junk. So I have not The last car
that I bought at auction for a client was actually
a used sprinter van because we just couldn't find one retail.
And I will never ever do that again. That was
not fun um and so the average person can't go

(44:24):
to those now. If you've got a buddy who has
a dealer's license and there are some smaller dealers that
this is how they operate, they just I think that's
what he does. He goes through a small dealership and
they basically act as act as like a broker, right
and they are they are brokers. And you know, if
you've got a good relationship. Depending on how picky they are,
that can be good. I haven't been buying at auction

(44:44):
because the good stuff doesn't end up there. Here's how
they used I'll give you the inside scoop on how
the used car market works. When you trade in your car,
which remember you're selling it, you're not trading it in.
It's actual money. Negotiate that price, but the dealer that
buys it from you, they're either going to keep it
for their lot. And what I have found is if

(45:05):
you trade in anything remotely good, they're gonna keep it
because they need the used car inventory. So I find
most of the good stuff is not even making it
to the auction. The If you have a lease car
that you're turning in, the dealers, you know, may or
may not keep that for their lot, depending on if
they've already got a ton of them, or it's just

(45:26):
a car that they can't sell. Like the Toyota dealer
can't sell the newer Hondas because the Honda Gays are
next door. Then those cars end up going to internal
auctions that are run by the manufacturer's captive finance company
and the dealer. The franchise dealers get first DIBs on those.
So if none of the franchise dealers anywhere in the

(45:48):
United States they choose not to buy this car, then
it goes to the auction lanes that you're independent dealers
like you were talking about, your friend has can buy
at and usually car Vanna and a lot of those
big companies they have been buying up inventory like crazy
and driving the prices up. So literally, the smaller dealers

(46:08):
are really struggling to find good cars at auction because
they just end up getting all the leftover junk seconds,
they get sloppy seconds. Now that's not to say that
there's not a few gems that that trickle through, but
it's just a whole different game than it was, you know,
before two thousand nine and even just in the last
ten years. So that's why I don't even look at

(46:28):
the auctions anymore. It's just a waste of my time. Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense, you know. I mean basically,
I feel like companies like Carvonna, they identified an opportunity,
yeah at those auctions, and so it's like, hey, we
can get pretty new vehicles, make sure that they're in
pretty good shape, get them dressed up, sell them online,
So it's super convenient because you know, going through this
broker guy that our friend knows, that's not nearly as convenient.

(46:50):
It sounds as shady as it actually is. I think
like like it's not convenient as opposed to being able
to yeah, see lots of pictures online. So that's yeah,
that's that's true. And Leeah, this has been such a
great conversation. We really appreciate you spending the time with
us today. Where can folks learn more about you and
your podcast and what it is that you do. Absolutely,
they can go to the Car Chick. That's c h

(47:11):
I c K dot com and the link to the
podcast is on there. You can also go to about
directly at the Straight Shift don't forget the f dot
com and that's where all the podcasts are. We have
a YouTube channel on there as well, so lots of
fun videos. As you said, I'm just passionate about educating
people and empowering them to make these smart financial decisions

(47:32):
when it comes to buying, selling, and servicing their cars. Well,
that's why we wanted to have you on Lean and
this has been such a such a fun combo, So
thanks again for joining us. We really appreciate it. It's
been my pleasure. Guys, thanks for having me all right, Well, Joel,
you know, considering how much kind of crap that we
give cars because we're such huge fans of riding bikes,
it's really important to make sure that you, you know,

(47:54):
you get things right when it comes to purchasing a vehicle.
So I'm really glad that we were able to have
lean On talking through just the the car buying process.
I mean even too at the beginning, they're talking about maintenance,
but then of course, you know, going about buying a
used car. Uh So yeah, it was all really helpful information.
But what was your big takeaway from this episode, Buddy? Yeah,
lots of great information for sure, and just like concise

(48:16):
in depth like Leanne crushed it. I think the biggest
takeaway I had from this episode that I think is
gonna be helpful to a lot of people is when
Leanne was talking about when repairs are needed on your car,
she said, ask for specific quantitative info. You might even
have to do a little research. But she was like,
show me the fluid. Yeah, yeah, you might even have
to do little a little research to find out what

(48:37):
question you need to ask you're probably not gonna know, right, Like,
what is the life left the friction life left on
my brakepad? Like, That's not a question that would have
popped into my mind at that point in time, but
I think maybe, yeah, just doing a little digging when
a mechanic tells you what's wrong before you just like
sign off on it and drop eight d nine hundred
dollars two thousand dollars whatever it may be, and uh,

(49:00):
formulate two or three questions that are important to ask
and then get that second opinion, you know, if you
feel like you're not being steered straight. But I think asking, yeah,
a couple of questions is majorly helpful. Can help you
get to the root of whether your car does have
this issue or whether it's something that maybe can wait
even six months or a year to have to have
that work done. So yeah, I love that specific, quantitative

(49:23):
ask those hard questions to make sure that you're not
getting taken advantage of by by a mechanic. That was
such great advice. Not the mechanics live to take advantage
of people, by the way, you know, I'm just saying, like,
you gotta stick up for yourself and know the right questions,
and like she said, I mean, mechanics are paid by
the job, so a lot of times if they're like,
you know what, it's probably this. I don't know, Like
I'm sure there are some garages whether they're like there's

(49:44):
a good chance that that's what it's going to be,
and so they're just trying to move to the next job. Uh.
And but it may or may not be, you know,
in the best interest of you and your money, uh
in your vehicle as well. But yeah, that was great advice,
and mine simply, I'm gonna go with lemon squad dot com.
I really that there's a service out there that's specifically
for out of town vehicles. And so if you're trying

(50:05):
to find a really good deal on a specific car, uh,
and maybe you're looking out of state, you're looking in
a different city, having a service like that that can
go and check that vehicle out even before you take
the time off work or go on the weekend and
buy a plane ticket, right, I mean, I've we've got
friends who have done that before. Well they'll fly into
it to a different city one way ticket, they buy
the vehicle, and then they drive it back. But if

(50:26):
you're not getting it inspected ahead of that purchase, you
really might end up strained because if you're counting on
that vehicle to get you back home, I mean, there's there,
there's a lot on the line there, and we checked
it out lemon squad dot com and you can get
an inspection done on a standard vehicle for a hundred
and eighty bucks. I definitely think that that is money
well spent. Saves you time, uh and hassle, but then
potentially a lot of money as well. And you know,

(50:48):
Leanne said that her husband used to be a mechanic
until recently, and people would bring their car in after
the fact without a warranty or a window how's it look?
And it's like, actually needs thousands of dollars worth of work.
And that's a terrible position to be in. Pay the
pay the money up front, whether it's to a local
mechanic or someone from lemon squad dot com, to to

(51:09):
get that car checked out, because you're gonna save yourself
money and headaches and just have the confidence in knowing
that you're buying a vehicle that's been maintained well and
not something that is a problem left over from the
previous owner. That's right. You don't want to inherit someone
else's problems, Joel. Let's go ahead and shift gears. Let's
take it back to the beverage that we're drinking on
this episode, because this is technically not a normal craft beer.

(51:31):
You and I are enjoying an American I p A. However,
this is what is called a non alcoholic near beer.
This is uh, technically I guess uh an n a
beer by a brewery here, and again is it even
a brewery if it's not technically a beer? But this
is my right side brewing here in Atlanta, and they
send us a couple of their beers to try out

(51:51):
to enjoy on the show, And so yeah, what we
were thoughts on this are very first Na. Yeah, I
was super glad to see that we have a local
brewery making non alcoholic beers because there are so many
people that do want the taste of beer without the
alcohol that goes alongside of it. And in this I
p A, it's it's actually it's it reminds me of

(52:12):
some of the old school I PA is almost like
a Sierra Nevada i PA or something like that, but
it has like a little more of like a multi
vibe presence going on. But it definitely tastes different than
an i PA that's alcoholic, than like a five or
six percent i p A. Yeah, this one's point five percent.
Yeah exactly. Yeah, Yeah, but it gets you, It gets
you some of the way there if you really do

(52:33):
like the taste of beer and you miss it. But yeah,
I think going with a non alcoholic craft beer is
going to be a better way to go than going
with you know, the old school ones that have been
around for for twenty years. But yeah, I thought this
one was a decent representation of the craft style. Absolutely. Yah.
It's not that we're against beers quote unquote beer is
that don't have any alcohol. It's just often times, you

(52:54):
know what companies that alcohol is flavor with the different
ingredients that they're able to brew into the beer. But
this one I feel like was even still able to
get a good amount of flavor in there. Honestly, what
it reminds me of is that if you've ever been
around a homebrewer, or like if you go to someone's
garage or something like that in their homebrewing and you're standing,
like I've got memories of standing over a big old
pot sitting on top of a turkey fryer burner, you know,

(53:16):
like the outdoor giant things there. Uh, and the wart
it's called the warts. It's when they're boiling, I guess,
like the you know, the malts and the hops and
they're it's it's it's basically you're like cooking beer. But
it reminds me of that smell because that aroma that
that it puts off, it's not exactly like what you
would get out of a beer when it's time to
actually drink it. It's sort of like this, I don't know,

(53:37):
it's it's the smell of it before you drink it,
which is like this pleasant, earthy kind of Yeah. Yeah,
it's really earthy. It's very like vegetably like it makes
you think of, like, I guess, the actual ingredients that
go into making the beer kind of makes sense. I
guess if it hasn't I don't know, fermented, maybe this
is just this is beer that hasn't cooked all the way,
I guess. But all that being said, I'm I'm really
enjoying this one. Glad that you and I got to

(53:58):
enjoy this American IPA from Right Side Brewing here in Atlanta,
and we'll actually have another one of their beers here
on Wednesday's episode as well, no doubt. All Right, well,
that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks that
want the show notes including links to some of the
sites that got mentioned in our interview with Leanne, just
go to our website at how to money dot com.
That's right, and Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode, buddy.
Until next time, Best friends Out, Best Friends Out.