September 25, 2024 • 57 mins
This is the episode to motivate you to quit your 9-5 and start your own business, OR, to inspire you to use the skills you already have at your current job to moonlight on the side! Entrepreneurship – it’s not all that hard… right?! You might have a great idea, or you’ve stumbled upon a unique niche that you can step into, so you see an opportunity! But then you start thinking it through and some major questions start bubbling up to the surface, like how do you go about exiting your day job, or how do you know if you have enough work on the side to go all in? What about giving up W2 benefits? Or what about getting organized and paying taxes? These are questions that all would-be solopreneurs need to ask themselves, but luckily we’re joined today by the author of the Money-Smart Solopreneur, Laura Adams. Laura is actually the author of nine books, she’s the host of the Money Girl podcast, and by the end of this episode, we hope you’ll be empowered to hang your own shingle. She shares how she transitioned to self-employment, how to invest even more when you’re a solopreneur, ways to determine if you’re undercharging clients, mistakes that budding small businesses make, and more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to had to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're talking money smart Solopreneurs with Laura Adams.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, let's talk about how to quit your nine to
five start your own business. It can't be all that hard,
right Joel. It wasn't too difficult for us.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, there were some growing pains.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I don't know, like, there are a lot of folks
out there and they might have a great idea. I
think there might be some folks who've like stumbled upon
maybe a unique niche that you feel that you can
step into. So because of that, you're pumped. But then
you start thinking it through and some major questions start
bubbling up to the surface, right like how do you
go about exiting your day job? Or like how do
you know that you have enough money or enough work
(00:57):
on the side to go all in? What about giving
up those W two benefits those are pretty valuable, even
getting organized, paying taxes. That's like some of the less
sexy side of owning your own business. But luckily today
we're joined by the author of the money Smart solopreneur,
Laura Adams. And Laura is actually the author of nine books.
(01:17):
She's the host of the Money Girl Podcast, and honestly,
by the end of this episode, we hope that folks
are going to feel empowered to start their own business.
I'm certainly glad Joel that you and I we stuck
it through. Yeah, made it through those growing pains and
started our own business. But Laura, thank you so much
for joining us today on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's so good to be with you. Matt Joel, thank
you so much for having me on. I'm super pumped
to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Oh, we're excited too. Laura.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You've been doing the money thing for a long time,
so we've got so many questions for you. First question, though,
we ask everybody who comes on, is what do you
like to spor jehn, Because that, like I don't know,
gives us a little peek under the hood of what's
your deal is? Even though you're doing the smart thing,
you're you're saving, you're investing for the future, what is
it that you like to spend money on right now?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah? You know, if you looked at my check book,
the quote unquote check book, the virtual checkbook, you would say, gosh, Laura,
you spend a lot of money on healthcare, like supplements.
I go to a boutique doctor. I just do a
lot of health related extra spending because I just and
(02:20):
my husband as well.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So it's it's the both of us, Okay, we really
want to be healthy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And I feel like investing in your health is worth it.
If you don't have your health, you know, it doesn't
matter how much wealth you have, right, It's all about
being able to enjoy, you know, what you work so
hard for. So I do invest a lot in healthcare.
And I think a lot of people would look at
that and say that's a lot of money, You're crazy,
(02:45):
But to me, it's so well worth it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Okay, so this is hopefully this doesn't derail us too much, Laura.
But you mentioned like supplements and stuff. I feel like
this is a small This is an area that I've
started to kind of do some reading and trying. I'm
trying to explore. Do you feel Let's that's a quick disclaimer.
This is not medical, not medical advice. But do you
think that there are one, two, or three supplements that
pretty much everybody out there should be considering?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, you know, I do take a really good multi vitamin.
Of course, I'm also taking extra vitamin D. A lot
of folks are deficient in D So that's something you,
you know, should probably check with your doctor and find
out if that's something you should boost. I also, I'm
trying to think what else. I take just a handful,
(03:28):
just just a load of stuff every day. But you know,
I do think that all the omegas, the omega three,
the omega six, if you're not eating a lot of fish,
is so important for brain health. So those are a
few that you know, could probably could help and maybe
not hurt. But of course, like you said, get some
advice from the doctor.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Nice. Very cool.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I was just curious, right, So I'm curious about
something else, because Laura, you've been podcasting for a long time,
Like before ninety eight percent of America knew what a
podcast was. You were out there on I think Apple podcast,
which was just formally iTunes, that was the only game
in town. And you had a podcast since seven. What
have you learned through almost two decades of podcasting. What's
(04:11):
that trajectory been like for you?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, it's interesting. When I started, it was really a
passion project. I was very obsessed with consuming podcasts. I
was listening. I mean I had probably like fifty shows
I was subscribed to. I was kind of fascinated with
them and just the you know, the casual style. I've
always been somebody that enjoys audio, so you know, I
(04:36):
was the person that had the CD in the car
or the cassette in the car, was always listening to things.
And then all of a sudden, this free medium is
there that's very casual, and it really captivated me. So
I thought, what can I do to give back to
this community, what can I do to get involved? And
so yeah, I started podcasting in early two thousand and seven,
(04:57):
so it's almost been eighteen years weekly and I'd say,
you know, we've seen a lot of changes. At first,
it was kind of exploding, and then we went through
a period where everybody was like podcasting is dead. You know,
podcasting is going away, and I just never believed it
because I just personally enjoy audio so much.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
I've always got.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Earbuds in, I'm always listening while I'm doing other things.
So it's a lifestyle for me, and I just figure
there are a lot of other people out there that
really want the entertainment, the education, They're going to want this.
This is not going away. So really it's just been persistence.
I was doing it for one a week, one show
(05:40):
a week, and a few months ago we kind of
doubled down and I started doing two a week and
have seen really great results from that. So I think
we have over eight hundred and sixty shows now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I remember those early days in iTunes and you'd click
the podcast tab and it would just it was almost
like you were in Finder, like on your on your
Mac computer and list view, like that's basically how you
search Ability wasn't great.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
It wasn't great.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, like there was no cover art, there's just the
name of the podcast. But I think that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And of course the analytics. Analytics have gotten a little
bit better. They're still, you know, great, but they're a
little better.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Podcasting has grown up a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Absolutely, entrepreneurship. When I say that, I think like when
a lot of folks hear that, they're often visualizing Elon
Musk or the Bezos, right, like they're thinking of titans
of industry, but solopreneurs they essentially make the world go round,
just the small businesses we interact with, the different products
we consume. I would love to hear you make an argument,
(06:39):
Laura for solopreneurs and for more folks to maybe consider
starting their own business.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, it is very interesting when you think about it.
They're actually more solopreneurs than any other type of business
out there there are. As you said, they really make
the world go round. The interesting thing about solopreneurs is,
and I'm one of them, we don't employ people per se,
(07:07):
but we do use a lot of other solopreneurs. So
it's kind of like this ecosystem that you can get
involved with and find other solopreneurs that help you do
the things in your business that you're not so good at,
whether that's bookkeeping or marketing or graphic design, website, all
of that good stuff. So I do think it has
(07:29):
never been easier than it is right now to get
involved as a business owner, whether that's part.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Time or full time.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I mean, I know so many people that are working
a day job that are also doing consulting and other
types of business on the side. Number one, it's a
great way just to make extra income. Maybe that's to
help fight inflation, or boost up your retirement savings, or
just feel like you're getting ahead. And I do think
(07:58):
it also can make you maybe a more interesting person
you know, you're going to meet new people, and a
lot of times people are doing side work that makes
them better at their day job.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
That actually is what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I found that when I was getting involved with podcasting
and kind of doing all of that and writing on
the side, it made me. It opened a whole new
world up to me. That made me more desirable as
an employee to have those skills. And then the experience
that I got in my W two job made me
better as a freelancer. So it you know, kind of
(08:34):
fed each other and just you just see some kind
of compounding effects in your business and income. So depending
on what your interests are, your you know, your time,
your your skills, your interests, the desired income level that
you want. I think there's a side business in everyone
(08:54):
you know, ultimately, So it may not be that it's
something you want to do right now, but maybe retirement,
you know, or maybe if you decide to make a
career shift one day if you're not somebody that feels
like you want to do it on top of the
day job. And a lot of people are very stressed
and very overworked already, and the thought of doing side
work is overwhelming to them and that's.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Thank you, Laura. Yeah, another job?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
No, thanks right, yeah, no, I think that would probably
be one of the biggest cons that people would cite.
Can you kind of maybe steal man the other side?
And what is it? Maybe that the downsides of trying
to go the solopreneur out And we kind of started
off by using this term solopreneur? Is that the best
term to use? Like, how do you what terms do
you use typically when you're talking about people starting essentially
(09:39):
their own business from scratch.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, And we do have a lot of very confusing
terminology and that's some of the things that I cover
in Money Smart Solopreneur in the book, I kind of
address the fact that we call each other different things. Entrepreneur,
you know, side hustler, business owner, freelancer, contractor independent contractor.
But the bottom line is if you are getting income
(10:03):
from anywhere but an employer, that's business income. And so
a lot of people will start something like a little
side business, maybe driving for a ride sharing company, and
they start creating income and they don't even think of
themselves as a business. They don't think that they are
a business owner, but by default you are, so there's
(10:23):
a lot of rules and regulations and things you need
to be aware of when you start creating that extra income.
But on the other hand, a lot of people get
very caught up in the details that will prevent them
from getting started. They know, oh, what do I have
to do with taxes? What do I have to do
with insurance? And they'll think of all of the kind
(10:44):
of typical business sort of components, and that will keep
them from beginning to earn business income. So there's kind
of this sweet spot where you don't want to be
too overwhelmed and intimidated. You've got to go for it
and maybe test your idea and always tell people if
you once you can earn about ten thousand dollars doing
your side gig, that's at the point where maybe you
(11:06):
want to think about should I incorporate, should I get
a tax accountant, you know, get a little bit more
serious about it. But until then, to me, you're kind
of still playing. So you know, getting out there and
testing is really what I encourage people to do.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So is that sort of the threshold at what you
think that someone Okay, hey, I know you're calling this
your side gig. But once you get beyond that ten
thousand dollars, you think that's basically when they need to
start taking this a bit more seriously, and maybe that's
when they can personally start thinking, oh, this is something
I can totally launch into. It's like a legitimate business.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I mean it's a very arbitrary number, but I use
that number because I actually had a friend come to
me who was asking, how do I incorporate and how
do I get a business bank account? And I mean
she wanted to do all of this stuff before she
had made a penny at her at her desired side business.
And I said, look, you're getting ahead of yourself. Let's
(12:03):
just go make the money first, and then when you've
made a few thousand dollars, maybe ten thousand, come back
to me, and then we'll talk about how to kind
of take it to the next level. You know, unless
you're doing something with some liability upfront.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
You know, if you're.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Let's say, you know, maybe you're catering, you're doing something
in the food business, so you're doing something where maybe
even like personal training, you're doing something where somebody could
get hurt or sick if there's liability there, yes, maybe
you want to do a little bit in the in
the beginning stages to protect yourself if you're really serious.
But for most people, it's really just about making the income,
(12:40):
feeling confident that yeah, I can do this, and then
once you've got a little money in the bank, then
it's investing in that business and taking it to the
next level.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
All right, Let's say someone's listening and they're like, man,
I've had this kind of like business idea in the
back of my brain for a lot of years. I've
been a little too nervous to get started. Well, how
can a potential solopreneur distinguish with I mean, a good
business idea and a bad one? And you know, not
to be a downer, but it's possible to take the
leap and have a rocky time just because maybe you
didn't think through your business plan well enough, or you
(13:10):
didn't really even have let's say a market that you
could cater to, or maybe something that you had not
enough expertise, and like, how do you maybe hone in
on the type of business that makes sense for you
to launch?
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, I do think you want to look at areas
that overlap in your life. What are the things you
truly enjoy doing. What are the things that are making
you money?
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Now?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
What are the skills that you have? And in a
lot of cases, successful side businesses are kind of that
then diagram where all of those circles overlap. And for
many people it's something that they're probably already doing in
their day job in some cases, or similar to what
they're doing, so they have a level of expertise and interest.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
You know, maybe not.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It could be that they go back to school, maybe
they go back or go into a totally different direction,
but you do if you do go in a different direction,
maybe you want a mentor maybe you want a partner
somebody that does have a skill and expertise.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
In that area.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So testing the market is critical, and if you can
find ways to test that are very inexpensive, that's a
great way to find out is this going to fly?
You know, before I spend a lot of time and
money getting something created or building something, you do want
to have some ideas of potential success. And that may
(14:32):
be even surveying people trying to find ways. And it
can't be your mom or your best friend, you know,
it needs to be potential potential clients. Would they actually
be willing to pay you, and so you may need
to get a little creative just depending on what that
idea is.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
But it all comes.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Down to testing and even keeping a little security. That's
why I love transitioning from a day job slowly over
to a side gig when possible, because you got this
security of the regular paycheck, the benefits, all that good stuff.
You're kind of you know, that's sort of boosting you.
That's your safety net while you're testing that potential business idea.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, it seems like you're gonna get to a certain point,
like there's a tipping point, and you might have sort
of tapped out the amount that you can grow the
business because of the fact that you still have that
nine to five. Do you have any advice or tips
for folks as they're thinking through, Okay, how do I identify
once I have gotten to that point to where I
know that I'm pretty sure that I could generate a
(15:33):
full time income, but you're just not totally sure. You
see what I'm getting at. It's like there's this point
where you might have to like jump in with both
the air playing going to stay in the air.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely, that happens all the time and one thing
that really worked for me was negotiating with my employer
over time. I needed more time, and so what I
did is ended up negotiating to work part time, to
kind of slowly go from a five day work week
to a four day then later down to a three
(16:02):
day and the timing just worked for me. It was
during the during our last great recession, and so the
company that I was with really couldn't afford me, but
they didn't want to let me go either, and so
I thought, hmm, let me just see if we can
stay part time and then I can continue building my
(16:23):
side business simultaneously. So maybe you do a little negotiating
with your current employer. Can you work different hours, maybe,
you know, earlier in the morning or late at night,
some way that would give you a little bit more time,
you know, And that may not be possible for some
people who could be scared to even bring up the
topic of, you know, negotiating their hours, feeling like that's
(16:45):
just not going to fly with their employer. But it
does come down to juggling time, and so if you
can't create more time, maybe you can even delegate. You know,
for a while, I was delegating, not my side build
business tasks, but my day job tasks. So I was
able to find people who are actually helping me do
(17:07):
my like real job work while I was investing a
lot of time in my side business. So, you know,
finding creative ways to delegate, you know, in some cases
that may be a way around it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And that's a cool way to potentially retire too, right,
like the getting towards the end of your working career
and you don't need to go all or nothing. You
can go from full time to part time and that
just kind of like eases you into it. And I
love that too. You're kind of easing yourself into running
your own business and becoming a full time solopreneur. And
you mentioned the safety net portion of things like that,
(17:40):
a successful exit essentially involves having a solid safety net,
and that is part of the reason that the overlap
can be so clutch. But what else does that include,
Like what is the what other sort of safety net
factors do people need to consider?
Speaker 4 (17:55):
One thing is insurance, you know, certainly health insurance is
a big benefit, a valuable benefit a lot of people
are getting, and that does keep many people from leaving.
But I do want to help people sort of understand,
you've got options, you know, there are other ways to
get coverage. Yes, it's going to be a little bit
(18:15):
more expensive, more than likely than what you were paying
with an employer, because they're getting a group plan, which
is going to be less expensive than an individual plan. However,
there are some really great ways that you can save
money on health insurance, you know. Of course, if you're
making less income when you leave, you're going to qualify
(18:38):
for higher subsidies if you do purchase a marketplace plan,
an ACA qualified plan through the federal or state marketplace,
and those are really easy to shop. So if you're
kind of worried about that, I would say shop it.
You start looking at what is the price of health
insurance if I need to quit my job. Other things
that you're getting at work, like life insurance, maybe disability insurance,
(19:02):
Those are also very easy to replace and in most
cases are probably less expensive than you think, or can
be less expensive. So definitely thinking about what am I
getting right now that I need to duplicate on my
own retirement plan. Of course, Yeah, you're not going to
be getting any matching funds from yourself, you know, but
(19:23):
you can certainly create a pretty nice self employed retirement account.
Those that are set up for businesses, like a SOLO
four H one K or a step ERA let you
put in a lot more than you can with an
employer plan as long as you're making higher income. So
those are actually I think an area where entrepreneurs get
(19:45):
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Of a benefit.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know, they get a kind of a better retirement
plan or the ability to save more on a tax
deferred or tax free basis if you've got that much income.
So those are the main things. And of course, if
you have a business with any kind of liability, maybe
you need a business policy. You maybe need an auto
like a commercial auto policy if you're using a vehicle
(20:09):
for your business. So depending on the type of work
you do, you may need some additional coverage. But I
think it's a lot more affordable than many people might anticipate.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I love that you're getting into these nuts and bolts, Laura,
and we've got plenty more questions to get to on
that front. But I guess before we leave this first section,
one of the benefits of being a small business owner
is that you don't have anyone else telling you what
to do, which is awesome. That's totally great. But if
no one's telling you what to do, how do you
know what to do? And maybe if someone is asking
(20:41):
themselves that question, should that be an indicator that maybe
they're not cut out to own their own business because
they're like I almost feel like there should be a
need when it comes to the business that you're launching
and sort of how it is that you're spending your time.
But if someone doesn't necessarily have that drive, I guess
what would you say to that person.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Yeah, you do need to of what you're doing, and
you know, ideally you love sort of those core functions
in the business that are really driving revenue. But that's
not to say you can't find people or partners to
help you. There are a lot of folks out there
that do like fractional CEO, fractional CMO and you know,
(21:21):
can help you. But I would hope that somebody does
have some skill and expertise, you know, in the core
of what that business is all about. You're going to
be doing this business, hopefully for a long time or
be involved with it, so you know, it should be
something I think that you naturally like to do and
(21:41):
have the skill and ability to do.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Nice We've got a few more questions we want to
get to with you, Laura, and we're going to talk
about some really important ones like how do you find
the clients? How do you get paid? Talk about that
and more. Right after this, we are.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Back from the break again talking with Laura Adams about
starting your own business. And Laura, you mentioned before the
break your friend who is kind of I don't know,
maybe I picture y'all like having this conversation over coffee
and she's like, Oh, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
How do I start this business?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
She wanted to make sure she was taking all the
proper steps to make sure she was doing it in
a legitimate way, maybe in the eyes of the irs
or the government. But a big part of that is
business formation, and there are a lot of different business
entity possibilities out there. Is there a right path for
most solopreneurs out there?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Oh, it's a tough question because it really depends on
your business, your level of potential liability, whether you're going
to have a partner, the amount of income you plan
on making. So most people start out as a soul
proprietor by default because they simply do not know what
(22:55):
they need to do or want to do. So you know,
there's nothing wrong with that, but you do need to
understand how that is different from let's say, becoming an
LLC or becoming an ES corp S corporation. It affects
a lot of your business, so it's going to affect
how you pay taxes. It's going to affect just the
(23:19):
potential liability of your business. So it is something that
you don't want to take lightly. But I will say,
if you know you're somebody who's like a freelancer or
something something that has very low liability, you're probably okay
to start out as a sole proprietor for a little while.
As you begin and you test this business again, as
(23:41):
you begin making money, maybe it's that ten thousand dollars mark.
You can say, now is the point where I need
to get some advice and you want to talk to
I would advise you know, maybe starting out with a CPA,
a tax advisor. They can definitely look at your business
and make some recommendations for you that they might send
you to an attorney if you have a complex situation,
(24:04):
but in most cases a CPA is going to be
able to explain to you kind of the tax pros
and cons of different business entities.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
My business, I'm an LLC.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I pay taxes as a sole proprietor, though with an
LLC you can choose that or you can choose to
be taxed as a corporation, so you've got some flexibility
with that particular structure. And you know, it gets a
little complicated, but bottom line is you either need to
pay taxes with money that's flowing to you as an individual,
(24:39):
or you pay tax on the behalf of your company.
And so they're pros and cons to both of those.
But for me, my level of liability is such that
I'm okay with the LLC that gives me enough protection
and I'm just fine having income passed through to me
as an individual and paying that on my individual tax
(25:02):
return each year. So that's kind of how it works.
And I'd say most people I know who are in
my same situation who have a side business or built
a side business into a full time business or doing
something similar. I also know folks that are s corporations.
That also allows you to incorporate and have money flow
through to you as an individual. So you know, get
(25:26):
a little advice, maybe listen to a few podcasts on
this topic. Do a little digging and you'll find out
quickly what the differences are. But the bottom line is
there is no one right or wrong answer. It all
depends on your goals and your needs in the business today.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Well, okay, making or paying tax assumes you're making money,
which is a good thing, right as a business owner,
that's what you're going for. You're like, there's like a
success tax, which is paying the irs a percentage of
the income that you've generated, and that's an awesome thing.
That means you've arrived, right, I guess. So let's say
someone has a solid business idea, they formed an entity,
(26:03):
but now they've got to get the word out they
want to generate that income. What suggestions do you have
for people when it comes to finding paying.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Clients paying clients?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Yes, you know, it all depends on where they live.
And I know a lot of people who are really
trying to do things that is not going to move
the needle forward.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
They think that being on social media all day long.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Is going to move the needle forward when none of
their clients, their potential clients, are on their social media channels,
nor do they want to be. And so I think
a lot of people have this idea like, oh, I'm
supposed to be making these great Instagram posts or I'm
supposed to be here or there, and that may work.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
That may be the case, but it may not. And
so really.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Understanding where your clients are, who are they how can
you best reach them? That's ultimately where you've got to
invest the majority of your time in marketing and advertising,
no matter your your business or your business's size. So
you do have to not make any assumptions. And if
(27:11):
you are spending a lot of time on social media
and it's not bringing you results, you got to pivot.
You really have to have to have to make a
move and do something different and test something else. So
I guess you can't make an assumption that just because
somebody else is getting a lot of leads off of Instagram,
that that's going to work for you. You have to
(27:32):
ask yourself some pretty hard questions like where where is
my ideal client? And you know, maybe they you're in
a B to B business, you know, maybe it's more
like LinkedIn or doing something that's a little bit more
sophisticated in reaching them.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
So that is tough.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That is probably I'd say one of the most challenging
aspects of running a business, especially something like you know,
what I'm doing. For me, there's not one group people
sort of sitting in one bucket somewhere, and so trying
to figure out how do I really reach the people
who I want to work with. You know, there are
(28:10):
a lot of people out there who probably would work
with me, but maybe you know, they're not my ideal client.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
So that's been a challenge for me.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
And I can definitely tell people, you know, my sort
of secret, I guess has been just trying different things
and figuring out some simple things that have worked, and
then just doubling down on those things and just doing
it over and over, week after.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Week, just keep hitting it. How long you said the
word test, so it sounds like you're testing different avenues.
How long would you And gosh, it's got a very
right depending on the industry they're in the specific business,
maybe what avenue that they are considering, but how what
kind of effort do you think most folks need to
give a certain directory or a certain listing or social
(28:55):
media or even going in person and going to kind
of like in person meetups that kind of thing before
they should pivot.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I would say maybe a minimum of six months
would probably give you an idea. I would say if
your lead time, if you don't have a really long
lead time in your business, like you know, you're if
you're selling something that takes a year, you know lead time,
that maybe you would need a little bit more time.
But if you're somebody that's looking for clients, that you
(29:23):
should be able to get down your funnel within a
few weeks.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I would say six.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Months is probably plenty of time to know if something
is bringing in not only the quantity of leads, but
quality leads.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What about pricing, Laura, Because like, I have a buddy
who he kind of has this amazing idea of this business.
He wants to start locally. But when it comes to
when people ask him reach out even proactively, hey how
much how much for the thing you're making, he's typically like, oh, well,
I'll do it for this and it's not too much
above the cost and so but it's basically it's hard
(29:59):
to figure out whether or not this could be profitable
for him. How to solopreneurs how should they figure out
what they should charge clients and how like, how do
they know what they're worth.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
This is really tough too.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I think a good way to start is to think
think about what your ideal income is in a year,
you know a realistic number, and work your way from
that and say, okay, from that, how many clients what
I really need? And is that realistic or how many
things would I need to sell and at what margin?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
So that's one way to do it. You know, another way.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Is competitive You could look at other people that are
in your industry you're doing something similar. Now they may
be very underpriced, so that's hard to know, but it
could give you just some kind of you know, a point,
whether it's high or low. If you see several competitors,
you could sort of take an average of what they're doing.
(30:58):
And of course being value based is probably the best way.
And I think you know, the ability to earn more
by doing less comes from really pricing yourself well, being
able to provide a lot of value that someone is
willing to pay you very well to get that service
(31:18):
or to get that product from you. And that does
take a little bit of finesse. It does take time
to understand, you know, what is the value here, what
am I bringing? And so thinking about what someone's The
alternative is, let's say if you give somebody a quote,
some kind of a proposal, thinking about where else could
(31:39):
they go to get this service if they don't get
it from me, where else could they go, you know,
and if it's not very likely that they could get
it or get it quickly, you know, maybe you're underpricing yourself.
Maybe you need to be a little bit more confident.
So that's something that I've had to struggle with as well.
Do you overpriced yourself and let some deals fino all
(32:00):
in the garbage? Or you know, do you underprice and
maybe feel like hmm, you know, this is something that
I'm not truly excited about.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
You want you want to be in the middle.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
You don't ever want to have a product or service
sold that you don't feel is really worth your time
and effort.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I like that, Yeah, looking at the unique selling proposition
that you're able to offer by looking at the alternatives.
What about as folks are starting to generate some of
this income, I think a lot of folks might be
turned off by the fact that they don't have a
steady income. I remember when my wife and I started
our first business, there was highs there's certain months that
felt like we were kings and queen of the like
(32:35):
queens of the world. But then there's some months where
I'm just like, oh my gosh, we don't have any
money coming in this month. I mean, and obviously I
think the solution here is just to have some margin
built in. But I guess how would you talk to
clients about that? How do you talk to friends? How
would you advise folks to get over this hurdle of
that erratic income.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's never going to go away, so you got to
get comfortable with the uncomfortable. And I think most entrepreneurs
are willing. They're risk takers, maybe by heart. You know,
maybe if you don't think of yourself as a risk taker,
you know, maybe there's a little bit of that in you,
and you know you're going to be able to let that,
let part of you grow and feel more comfortable with
(33:16):
taking risk. Again, that's a great reason to keep the
day job if you can while you make the transition.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
But the variable.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Income is something that most entrepreneurs are going to deal with,
and you know, there's some ways that you can kind
of smooth it out. One way is to create what
I call a holding account for your income. And then
once you put money in that holding account, you pay
yourself sort of a regular salary or a regular amount
(33:46):
on a monthly basis. And so on the good months,
you're going to let that holding account get bigger and bigger.
But then on the months where the business hasn't done
quite as well as you would have liked, you're still
going to be able to pay yourself the same, but
the holding account is going to decrease. So something like
that can help you smooth out and irregular income, it
(34:08):
still doesn't take the worry, you know, or maybe the
stress away in most cases. So this is why it's
so wise to go into a new business with a
kind of a buffer, a financial buffer. Maybe it's a
certain number of months in savings, like in a like
a superpower emergency fund that you really beef up so
(34:32):
that you're going to be okay. You're going to feel
safe if the business doesn't do as well as you hoped,
or it just is going to be seasonal, you know,
could be that just some seasons are not going to
be profitable for you, and you're going to need to
be comfortable with, you know, continuing and waiting and just
kind of knowing that those good months are going to come.
(34:53):
So that's a difficult part about being self employed. And
I would say you got to just youve got to
just make make it, you know, part of your mindset.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, I think highlighting those in advance can be powerful. Like,
for instance, Matt, you're the business you're alluding to is
wedding photographer. Guess what, January not the biggest month for weddings, right,
but if you know spring and fall and are going
to be kind of your heavy hitting seasons.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
When I was raking in the car, it yeah, exactly,
but it's it's it's somewhat predictable.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
It's not one hundred percent predictable, but it's somewhat predictable,
and you should be able to kind of look ahead
and say, yeah, it's gonna be lean for a couple
of months, so kind of stock up while the sun shines.
I'm curious to Laura, one of the things that I
think some people starting a business get excited about is deductions.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
You know, we were talking about taxes just a second ago.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, oh man, these things I'm buying for my business,
I get to deduct them all my taxes. You know,
talk to us about deducting business expenses, and uh, yeah,
is the hype? Is the hype worth it?
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
You know, in some cases it is like, you know,
if you get to travel and you can make a
business trip a little personal, you know, that portion of
the trip that is business gets to be deducted. Those
are some of the biggest perks for me. I was
recently down in Miami working for a client down there,
(36:14):
and I extended the trip. My husband came and we
had a wonderful weekend down there, and so a portion
of that trip is deductible. But you know, there are
a lot of things also maybe to think about if
you're working from home, so like a home office. If
you qualify for the home office deduction, that can also
(36:35):
make some of your personal expenses fully or partially deductible.
So that's kind of the sweet spot. I think if
you can work from home, you know, you do a
little bit of traveling. But of course, all the expenses
related to creating income in your business are always one
hundred percent deductible, but the home office it may be
(36:57):
just a percentage of Some of those expenses is like
your rent or you know, mortgage insurance, some of those things.
So that's kind of a nice perk.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Is that still based on the on the ratio of
the square footage of your home office compared.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
To the rest of the house. That's how it used
to be.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
At least there's a simple way they do it now
where they give you five bucks per square foot basically
where you don't have to keep up with your expenses,
so you can do the simplified method or actually, you know,
list everything out and choose the method that gives you
the largest deduction. But basically, you know, if you've got
(37:36):
a fairly decent sized home office, itemizing everything listing everything
out usually means you're going to come out ahead. So
it's wise to keep really good records of all of
your expenses related to home and business and take advantage
of it. And if you don't understand any of what
we are talking about, you need to go to an
(37:56):
accountant and at least get them, let them set you
up the first year that you're in business, and maybe
you can you know, kind of keep up with it
on your own after that. And if you're really not
inclined to do bookkeeping, I would hand it over to
them one hundred percent, but they will help you maximize
deduction so that you pay as little tax as possible.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Kind of on that note, do you think for a
lot of folks working from home makes the most sense?
Does it kind of depend on their distractability and how
adhd they might be. Yes, the vices right is on
or like, oh, let me go ahead and just throw
another lot of laundry in, or oh, actually I need
to flip that laundry and then before you know it,
you're actually not working on your business at all.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
What would you say to those folks?
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, it is very personality dependent, and I do think
a lot of entrepreneurs tend to be driven people, you know,
just broadly speaking, so you know, they're probably more suited
to being able to do that. But I definitely know
a lot of people who need to get out. You know,
maybe they've got small kids at home, they need to
(38:59):
have an office, they need to separate work and home,
and you may want to just build that into the
cost of your business if you don't have a local business,
or you know, you don't have employees where you're meeting
that kind of thing. So I do think it comes
with a lot of great tax benefits if it's right
for you don't work from home at the detriment of
(39:19):
your business just to say, oh, I can work from home.
You know, you've got to be productive and make sure
that you're building building a business. You know you're bringing
in as much revenue as possible.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, all right, Laura, We've got a few more questions
to get to with You want to specifically talk about
mistakes to avoid, and we want to talk about paying
for help. We'll get to a few questions on both
of those topics right after this.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We are talking about how you can be a money
smart solarpreneur with Laura Adams and Laura. Right before the break,
Joel mentioned maybe some of the different mistakes that a
solopreneur might.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Make, and uh, here's one.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But you've actually talked about not spending enough on the
right thing. You talk about how that's one of them.
Do you think there are any specific areas when it
comes to business expenses that you see solopreneurs maybe being
a little too cheap on, Like oftentimes on the show
we have like a frugal versus cheap segment where man
I really thought that was gonna be a frugal move,
but in the end, it ends up biting us in
(40:20):
the butt. Do you also see that apply to owning
your own business.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I do.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I think that many times people are not investing in
good advice, whether that's legal, accounting, even branding, general just operations.
It really pays off when you pay somebody who's done
what you want to do or need to do, and
they can condense like thirty years of experience into a
(40:47):
couple hours of consultation with you. It can be some
of the wisest money that you ever spend in your business.
But a lot of people think, oh, I can do
this myself, Why I don't need anybody's help, And you know,
we feel very want it, like we want to be independent.
I think in a lot of cases we need to
just admit that there are people out there that know
(41:09):
a lot more than we do, and it's really smart
to tap into that. So you've got to figure out
what that is for you any areas of your business
that you're struggling with. Literally having a thirty minute phone
call with an expert could completely revolutionize what you're doing
in your business.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
And of course that's great advice, and it's free advice
from lauras I appreciate that, so did.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
You charge you for that?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Now?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
In taxes, this is another area that this is a
huge mistake that people mess up on. And typically the
first year they don't know that they need to pay
estimated quarterly taxes and so all this money is, you know,
coming into the account, maybe it's all being spent, and
then they're fortunate enough to have made some money. Taxes
(41:55):
come around and it's like, oh, we've got a we've
got a really hefty tax bill here. So the second
year you're kind of in the hole. You're you're trying
to pay off those taxes that you owed from the
first year, and that just doesn't set yourself up for
a good second year or third year or beyond. So
don't underestimate the pain that it could could take and
(42:20):
make on your business if you're not setting yourself up
to pay estimated taxes and be on time and not
behind with your taxes when you go into year two.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, and even making those quarterly estimates, even that can
also be painful, So you have to cozy up to that.
The EFTPS dot gov. Yes, I love that system at
it's the most upddate software. It feels very much like
Apple iosa teen intuitive. Yeah, yeah, every time, Like how
do you do this again? And I just I shake
my fist of the sky. But I digress.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Laura.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
You talk about in your book, which is such a
helpful book if somebody wants to get started building their
own business. You list a bunch of helpful tools for solopreneurs.
And the great thing you said at the very beginning,
and I think you're spot on, is that it's easier
than ever in so many ways to start your own business.
Think about everything's so many things can be done online again,
and you can even have a client facing service where
through zoom calls. But like, what are the tools that
(43:17):
are most helpful alleviating some of the biggest pain points
that solopreneurs have.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
Yeah, I definitely think a good bookkey keeping or accounting
software is going to help. You know, even if you
have an accountant, they need you to be organized. You know,
you can't just show up with the shoe box of receipts,
although I'm sure a lot of people do that. You
need to be able to understand what's going on with
your business through just some simple reporting. And if you're
(43:44):
entering and having all of your transactions pulled into something
that's intuitive and easy to use. You're going to have
great reporting, You're going to be able to tag certain transactions.
It just will make a world of difference in your.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Day to day.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
So that's awesome, you know. I'd say also some of
the communication tools that we're using for me, Slack has
been fantastic working with clients and being able to kind
of centralize communication with them. Trying to think of what
else I really love. There are some great new products
(44:20):
that are out there that even incorporate banking, business banking
with bookkeeping. So I would say definitely have a good
business bank, one that doesn't.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Charge you but maybe pays you a little interest.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
You know, wouldn't that be nice, So that the business
bank you choose needs to really flow with how you
do business. Some people are going to need something very
robust because maybe they're taking credit cards, they're doing some
kind of payment transactions that they need to handle, and
maybe other people just kind of will use it very sparingly.
(44:58):
But whatever the needs are for you, talk to your
bank if you're not getting the service that you need.
In a lot of cases, they can actually customize things
for you as your business grows and changes. So this
is something I've learned after working with banks over many
years helping them with marketing and pr. They're actually there
(45:20):
are some very good banks out there, and they really
want to work with businesses to kind of tailor programs
and products for them based on their needs. So I
would say, if you're struggling with transactions, you're struggling with bookkeeping,
finding the right bank can be a really good solution
to just helping you stay organized.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
That makes sense. What about tools as far as finding contractors?
You talk about the beauty of solopreneurship is the fact
that it's a bunch of individuals and they all specialize
in their own thing and you get to hire those individuals.
Do you have any recommendations when it comes to finding
some different folks that you're looking to basically plug and
play to get these folks plugged into your business so
(46:02):
you can immediately hit the ground running.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah, you know, certainly.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Personal referrals are some of the best ways to find people,
but there's so many great platforms out there just depending
on the type of work you need.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
I mean, even fiver is just a.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Wealth of information these days about for people and they're
all over the world doing all kinds of very specialized
types of work. So you know, if you maybe know
somebody who knows somebody, that's what I love. I love
getting a personal referral. But definitely look at what's available
out there with marketplaces, whether it's engineering. Maybe you need
(46:43):
somebody to do some advanced computer work for you. I
have also found you know a lot of people simply
by searching Google. I mean looking at if you're looking
for somebody to help you with SEO, well, if they
pop up at the top of the Google search results,
you know they're probably they know their stuff, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
So it just depending on the type of work you need.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
I would say, don't be afraid to try different people too,
and let people know we're going to work together on
a trial basis. Let's work together for thirty days or
sixty days.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
Don't maybe over promise.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Just try to let people know you're going to test
them out for a little while, and that way they'll
be sure to really give you their best, and you
can be clear about the fact that you know, I
may not be working with you forever, but if you're
really good, I may have a lot of future work
for you, so testing people out a little bit. You
may even have some of your friends' kids that would
(47:41):
love to work for you for free. Some of them
are looking for internships, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:47):
Free, they're looking for experience.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
They want to put something on a resume. So a
lot of them are exactly they have skills.
Speaker 5 (47:57):
So don't overlook those those young And.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What about accountability and motivation, Laura, because the solopreneur lifestyle
can get a little lonely. You are, like you said,
kind of connected in this ecosystem of other solopreneurs who
you can hire and do work for, and that's kind
of beautiful and wonderful in so many ways. But what
if you're, let's say, in that first couple of first
(48:21):
couple of years, trying to get the ball rolling, It
can get a little demoralizing. So do you have any
like tips for people to stay motivated, to kind of
have somebody else in their corner who's cheering them on.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Yeah, if you have a group of like minded people,
doesn't have to be people in your industry. Maybe even
sometimes it's better if they're not in your industry, but
you're kind of all at the same level, whether you know,
whether it's just starting out or you're in a growth phase,
having like a monthly just a monthly video call to
chat about challenges or ways to save money. Tips for
(48:58):
each other that I think can be really helpful. Not
only is it a social connection, but you can give
each other some tips and advice for problems that you're experiencing.
If you are in your house all day and you
really feel isolated, make a point to get out, go
work in a coffee shop one day a week or
(49:21):
even every other week. Just being around other people, kind
of being in a different environment can really recharge you
and keep you motivated. So if yeah, I would say
you got to know yourself. And if you start to
feel depressed about being at home or like your energy
is just being sapped because you're by yourself all day,
(49:43):
make a point to get out, take a walk, take breaks.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
I do that. I get out, take a lot.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Of walks and breaks, and it's just a good way
to mentally recharge. It definitely will lift your mood again.
Getting a walk good for the good for the body,
good for the health. To get yourself moving, get the
blood flow, you become so creative. I get some of
my best ideas when I'm out, just taking a brisk walk, and.
Speaker 5 (50:07):
I usually do bring my phone.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
I like to listen, as we talked about, listen to podcasts,
but also i'll take voice memos if I think about things,
just kind of constantly talking into the voice memo. The
people who see me probably think I'm great. Yeah, you know,
these fleeing things that come into your brain. I know,
if I don't get it down right away, I'll forget it.
(50:32):
So it can be a great way to brainstorm if
you need a brainstorm by yourself, but of course if
you can brainstorm with other people, that is always going
to be probably the most effective way to get over
some of the hurdles that a lot of business owners have.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
I love it. Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
A change of scenery and how that can get the
creative juices flow, and kind of going back to what
you're saying earlier, just solopreneurship in general, it's just interesting,
right then, The ability to interact with different folks within
your industry or even outside of outside of your industry.
The ability to just see some folks at the coffee
shop can spur a lot of fun conversations. But Laura,
we really appreciate you taking the time to talk with
us today, working folks to learn more about you, your
(51:11):
podcast and your book.
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Yeah, everybody can definitely check out Money Girl.
Speaker 5 (51:16):
We do shows twice a week.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
They're coming out on Wednesdays, they're coming out on Fridays.
I also have a newsletter called The Money Stack. It's
a sub stack, and when you sign up for free,
I've got some good gifts. Like one of them is
called a Money Success Toolkit, So it's a financial planner
and a personal financial statement. It's actually the same statement
(51:39):
that I use a template for tracking and keeping up
with my net worth, which is something I always recommend
that people do. Kind of looking at that on an
annual basis is a great way to kind of just
take the temperature of your financial health, if you will,
whether you're improving or flat or decreasing in terms of
(51:59):
your network. So I'd love people to sign up for
the Money Stack again, it's free and we have lots
of fun stuff in the newsletters that come out each week.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Very cool, Laura, thank you so much for joining us today.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
Matt and Joel, you guys are amazing. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Well Joel, I'm so thankful that Laura Adams was able
to set aside a little portion of her day to
talk to us about starting our own business. Something she
did something I honestly, I guess most folks out there
who are creating and publishing, like by default they've sort
of gone through this, but it's not something that everyone
talks about. Some folks are better at it than others.
But I think Laura had a lot to say about
(52:36):
how to do this in a way that is going
to make the most sense. It's like the most pain
free way to maybe start a business. Yeah, is what
I think about when I think of her book.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
And let's be honest, it's just kind of motivating to
get out there and I don't know, start something even
when maybe it's been in the back of your brain
for a long time. And I think that's one of
the bigges hurdles of people need to overcome. And one
of the things that Laura is really helping people do.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Totally was that your big takeaway now, all right, more general,
kind of vague, I'll give my big takeaway, and I
think it is to dial back slowly on your current
job while you're implementing the new thing, and it's what
we did. Right when we were starting the podcast, it
was like, cool, let's record late at night one night,
and so we were burning the midnight oil for a while,
and it took time to build this thing up into
(53:18):
being like, wait a second, could we potentially at some
point ditch our day jobs? All right, well, let's not
do it yet, Like, let's build that financial runway. Let's
also make sure that the proof of concept is going
to endure. But yeah, over time we were like taking
steps back and building this thing up, taking steps forward
in the business area, and then finally we were able
(53:39):
to jett us in the day job down the road.
So it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You
don't necessarily have to put forty hours a week into this,
but find out if there's a proof of concept, find
out if there's something you enjoy doing, and then later
on down the road, you can move the dimmer switch
on both your day job and your side hustle, turning
one into a little bit a little going down on
(54:01):
the other one's going up. Right, Yeah, I think that
can help folks to feel more comfortable in making that transition, obviously,
but one of the things she said that you have
to kind of get used to no matter what is
being comfortable with the uncomfortable. Yeah, that's when we're talking
about that irregular income.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
There's no IT department to come solve your computer issues.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Right yeah. Yeah, Well, and specifically to when it comes
to income, like it doesn't really matter I guess how
successful you are, Like there's it's still variable. Like it's
still not something that you can one hundred percent count
on being there. It's going to very month to month
or from quarter to quarter, year to year even. And
so when it comes to your personal finances that I
think what that means is making sure things are really
(54:40):
buttoned up because you have to be able to weather
some of those I don't want to call them storms
because it's just a natural part. I guess storms are
a natural part of weather. Yeah, but they happen fairly often.
It's think of it more like a shower, like an
afternoon shower. It's going to happen, and so just being
able to handle that and expecting that. That's the part
of owning your own business as well. I don't think
everyone's cut out for that, and I think those are
(55:02):
the folks who are like yeah, no, I could never
do that, But other folks, I just want you to
realize that there are ways to mitigate some of those disturbances,
if that's what you might call it, to your income.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
I think I had like a mental barrier to not
receiving a paycheck every two weeks then, and it took
time for me to get adjusted to that. But it
also took just financial preparation, having more in savings, knowing
that that was going to be the case, and that
resolved a lot of that anxiety that I felt. So
know that, Yeah, you might be like I really like
itting two paychecks a month.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Most people do, but it doesn't mean that you can't
get over.
Speaker 3 (55:36):
That hurdle too. Totally agree.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Let's get to our beer. You and I enjoyed head High.
That's an IPA from Cain Brewing Company. Caine spelled with
a K. This is another one donated to the show
by Michael G. This is a brewery out of Ocean,
New Jersey. I'm just gonna say that this was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
So good. I was not expected.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
I mean, I've never heard of these guys, never heard
any thing about this brewery. But it poured really pretty,
and man was it delicious. I've heard good things actually
about that. Yeah, yeah, you read your craft Beer Digest
message boards have song the praises of Caine for a
long time, but I've never really been able to get
my hands on him.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
So a big thanks to listener Michael for sending this
one our way. This was truly next level. It was
like fresh, vibrant and juicy.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
It was so fresh.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah, that's the first thing.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Once I took a sip, you realize it tasted alive.
Like this is almost tasted like one of those fresh
hot beers, but on the nose, super citrusy and just
was incredibly bright on the tongue as you're drinking it
as well. Really really enjoyed this one.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
They might have put extra into this one because this
was I think at thirteenth anniversary beer, but this, I
mean incredible, incredible IPA. So yeah, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (56:44):
Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Everyone else can head to our show notes up on
the website at how tomoney dot com. That's where you
can learn more about Laura where you can find her
book as well. But buddy, that's going to be it
for this episode until next time. Best friends out, best
friends out,
Welcome to had to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're talking money smart Solopreneurs with Laura Adams.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, let's talk about how to quit your nine to
five start your own business. It can't be all that hard,
right Joel. It wasn't too difficult for us.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, there were some growing pains.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I don't know, like, there are a lot of folks
out there and they might have a great idea. I
think there might be some folks who've like stumbled upon
maybe a unique niche that you feel that you can
step into. So because of that, you're pumped. But then
you start thinking it through and some major questions start
bubbling up to the surface, right like how do you
go about exiting your day job? Or like how do
you know that you have enough money or enough work
(00:57):
on the side to go all in? What about giving
up those W two benefits those are pretty valuable, even
getting organized, paying taxes. That's like some of the less
sexy side of owning your own business. But luckily today
we're joined by the author of the money Smart solopreneur,
Laura Adams. And Laura is actually the author of nine books.
(01:17):
She's the host of the Money Girl Podcast, and honestly,
by the end of this episode, we hope that folks
are going to feel empowered to start their own business.
I'm certainly glad Joel that you and I we stuck
it through. Yeah, made it through those growing pains and
started our own business. But Laura, thank you so much
for joining us today on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's so good to be with you. Matt Joel, thank
you so much for having me on. I'm super pumped
to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Oh, we're excited too. Laura.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You've been doing the money thing for a long time,
so we've got so many questions for you. First question, though,
we ask everybody who comes on, is what do you
like to spor jehn, Because that, like I don't know,
gives us a little peek under the hood of what's
your deal is? Even though you're doing the smart thing,
you're you're saving, you're investing for the future, what is
it that you like to spend money on right now?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah? You know, if you looked at my check book,
the quote unquote check book, the virtual checkbook, you would say, gosh, Laura,
you spend a lot of money on healthcare, like supplements.
I go to a boutique doctor. I just do a
lot of health related extra spending because I just and
(02:20):
my husband as well.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So it's it's the both of us, Okay, we really
want to be healthy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And I feel like investing in your health is worth it.
If you don't have your health, you know, it doesn't
matter how much wealth you have, right, It's all about
being able to enjoy, you know, what you work so
hard for. So I do invest a lot in healthcare.
And I think a lot of people would look at
that and say that's a lot of money, You're crazy,
(02:45):
But to me, it's so well worth it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Okay, so this is hopefully this doesn't derail us too much, Laura.
But you mentioned like supplements and stuff. I feel like
this is a small This is an area that I've
started to kind of do some reading and trying. I'm
trying to explore. Do you feel Let's that's a quick disclaimer.
This is not medical, not medical advice. But do you
think that there are one, two, or three supplements that
pretty much everybody out there should be considering?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, you know, I do take a really good multi vitamin.
Of course, I'm also taking extra vitamin D. A lot
of folks are deficient in D So that's something you,
you know, should probably check with your doctor and find
out if that's something you should boost. I also, I'm
trying to think what else. I take just a handful,
(03:28):
just just a load of stuff every day. But you know,
I do think that all the omegas, the omega three,
the omega six, if you're not eating a lot of fish,
is so important for brain health. So those are a
few that you know, could probably could help and maybe
not hurt. But of course, like you said, get some
advice from the doctor.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Nice. Very cool.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I was just curious, right, So I'm curious about
something else, because Laura, you've been podcasting for a long time,
Like before ninety eight percent of America knew what a
podcast was. You were out there on I think Apple podcast,
which was just formally iTunes, that was the only game
in town. And you had a podcast since seven. What
have you learned through almost two decades of podcasting. What's
(04:11):
that trajectory been like for you?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, it's interesting. When I started, it was really a
passion project. I was very obsessed with consuming podcasts. I
was listening. I mean I had probably like fifty shows
I was subscribed to. I was kind of fascinated with
them and just the you know, the casual style. I've
always been somebody that enjoys audio, so you know, I
(04:36):
was the person that had the CD in the car
or the cassette in the car, was always listening to things.
And then all of a sudden, this free medium is
there that's very casual, and it really captivated me. So
I thought, what can I do to give back to
this community, what can I do to get involved? And
so yeah, I started podcasting in early two thousand and seven,
(04:57):
so it's almost been eighteen years weekly and I'd say,
you know, we've seen a lot of changes. At first,
it was kind of exploding, and then we went through
a period where everybody was like podcasting is dead. You know,
podcasting is going away, and I just never believed it
because I just personally enjoy audio so much.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
I've always got.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Earbuds in, I'm always listening while I'm doing other things.
So it's a lifestyle for me, and I just figure
there are a lot of other people out there that
really want the entertainment, the education, They're going to want this.
This is not going away. So really it's just been persistence.
I was doing it for one a week, one show
(05:40):
a week, and a few months ago we kind of
doubled down and I started doing two a week and
have seen really great results from that. So I think
we have over eight hundred and sixty shows now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I remember those early days in iTunes and you'd click
the podcast tab and it would just it was almost
like you were in Finder, like on your on your
Mac computer and list view, like that's basically how you
search Ability wasn't great.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
It wasn't great.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, like there was no cover art, there's just the
name of the podcast. But I think that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And of course the analytics. Analytics have gotten a little
bit better. They're still, you know, great, but they're a
little better.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Podcasting has grown up a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Absolutely, entrepreneurship. When I say that, I think like when
a lot of folks hear that, they're often visualizing Elon
Musk or the Bezos, right, like they're thinking of titans
of industry, but solopreneurs they essentially make the world go round,
just the small businesses we interact with, the different products
we consume. I would love to hear you make an argument,
(06:39):
Laura for solopreneurs and for more folks to maybe consider
starting their own business.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, it is very interesting when you think about it.
They're actually more solopreneurs than any other type of business
out there there are. As you said, they really make
the world go round. The interesting thing about solopreneurs is,
and I'm one of them, we don't employ people per se,
(07:07):
but we do use a lot of other solopreneurs. So
it's kind of like this ecosystem that you can get
involved with and find other solopreneurs that help you do
the things in your business that you're not so good at,
whether that's bookkeeping or marketing or graphic design, website, all
of that good stuff. So I do think it has
(07:29):
never been easier than it is right now to get
involved as a business owner, whether that's part.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Time or full time.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I mean, I know so many people that are working
a day job that are also doing consulting and other
types of business on the side. Number one, it's a
great way just to make extra income. Maybe that's to
help fight inflation, or boost up your retirement savings, or
just feel like you're getting ahead. And I do think
(07:58):
it also can make you maybe a more interesting person
you know, you're going to meet new people, and a
lot of times people are doing side work that makes
them better at their day job.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
That actually is what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I found that when I was getting involved with podcasting
and kind of doing all of that and writing on
the side, it made me. It opened a whole new
world up to me. That made me more desirable as
an employee to have those skills. And then the experience
that I got in my W two job made me
better as a freelancer. So it you know, kind of
(08:34):
fed each other and just you just see some kind
of compounding effects in your business and income. So depending
on what your interests are, your you know, your time,
your your skills, your interests, the desired income level that
you want. I think there's a side business in everyone
(08:54):
you know, ultimately, So it may not be that it's
something you want to do right now, but maybe retirement,
you know, or maybe if you decide to make a
career shift one day if you're not somebody that feels
like you want to do it on top of the
day job. And a lot of people are very stressed
and very overworked already, and the thought of doing side
work is overwhelming to them and that's.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Thank you, Laura. Yeah, another job?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
No, thanks right, yeah, no, I think that would probably
be one of the biggest cons that people would cite.
Can you kind of maybe steal man the other side?
And what is it? Maybe that the downsides of trying
to go the solopreneur out And we kind of started
off by using this term solopreneur? Is that the best
term to use? Like, how do you what terms do
you use typically when you're talking about people starting essentially
(09:39):
their own business from scratch.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, And we do have a lot of very confusing
terminology and that's some of the things that I cover
in Money Smart Solopreneur in the book, I kind of
address the fact that we call each other different things. Entrepreneur,
you know, side hustler, business owner, freelancer, contractor independent contractor.
But the bottom line is if you are getting income
(10:03):
from anywhere but an employer, that's business income. And so
a lot of people will start something like a little
side business, maybe driving for a ride sharing company, and
they start creating income and they don't even think of
themselves as a business. They don't think that they are
a business owner, but by default you are, so there's
(10:23):
a lot of rules and regulations and things you need
to be aware of when you start creating that extra income.
But on the other hand, a lot of people get
very caught up in the details that will prevent them
from getting started. They know, oh, what do I have
to do with taxes? What do I have to do
with insurance? And they'll think of all of the kind
(10:44):
of typical business sort of components, and that will keep
them from beginning to earn business income. So there's kind
of this sweet spot where you don't want to be
too overwhelmed and intimidated. You've got to go for it
and maybe test your idea and always tell people if
you once you can earn about ten thousand dollars doing
your side gig, that's at the point where maybe you
(11:06):
want to think about should I incorporate, should I get
a tax accountant, you know, get a little bit more
serious about it. But until then, to me, you're kind
of still playing. So you know, getting out there and
testing is really what I encourage people to do.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So is that sort of the threshold at what you
think that someone Okay, hey, I know you're calling this
your side gig. But once you get beyond that ten
thousand dollars, you think that's basically when they need to
start taking this a bit more seriously, and maybe that's
when they can personally start thinking, oh, this is something
I can totally launch into. It's like a legitimate business.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I mean it's a very arbitrary number, but I use
that number because I actually had a friend come to
me who was asking, how do I incorporate and how
do I get a business bank account? And I mean
she wanted to do all of this stuff before she
had made a penny at her at her desired side business.
And I said, look, you're getting ahead of yourself. Let's
(12:03):
just go make the money first, and then when you've
made a few thousand dollars, maybe ten thousand, come back
to me, and then we'll talk about how to kind
of take it to the next level. You know, unless
you're doing something with some liability upfront.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
You know, if you're.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Let's say, you know, maybe you're catering, you're doing something
in the food business, so you're doing something where maybe
even like personal training, you're doing something where somebody could
get hurt or sick if there's liability there, yes, maybe
you want to do a little bit in the in
the beginning stages to protect yourself if you're really serious.
But for most people, it's really just about making the income,
(12:40):
feeling confident that yeah, I can do this, and then
once you've got a little money in the bank, then
it's investing in that business and taking it to the
next level.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
All right, Let's say someone's listening and they're like, man,
I've had this kind of like business idea in the
back of my brain for a lot of years. I've
been a little too nervous to get started. Well, how
can a potential solopreneur distinguish with I mean, a good
business idea and a bad one? And you know, not
to be a downer, but it's possible to take the
leap and have a rocky time just because maybe you
didn't think through your business plan well enough, or you
(13:10):
didn't really even have let's say a market that you
could cater to, or maybe something that you had not
enough expertise, and like, how do you maybe hone in
on the type of business that makes sense for you
to launch?
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, I do think you want to look at areas
that overlap in your life. What are the things you
truly enjoy doing. What are the things that are making
you money?
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Now?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
What are the skills that you have? And in a
lot of cases, successful side businesses are kind of that
then diagram where all of those circles overlap. And for
many people it's something that they're probably already doing in
their day job in some cases, or similar to what
they're doing, so they have a level of expertise and interest.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
You know, maybe not.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It could be that they go back to school, maybe
they go back or go into a totally different direction,
but you do if you do go in a different direction,
maybe you want a mentor maybe you want a partner
somebody that does have a skill and expertise.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
In that area.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So testing the market is critical, and if you can
find ways to test that are very inexpensive, that's a
great way to find out is this going to fly?
You know, before I spend a lot of time and
money getting something created or building something, you do want
to have some ideas of potential success. And that may
(14:32):
be even surveying people trying to find ways. And it
can't be your mom or your best friend, you know,
it needs to be potential potential clients. Would they actually
be willing to pay you, and so you may need
to get a little creative just depending on what that
idea is.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
But it all comes.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Down to testing and even keeping a little security. That's
why I love transitioning from a day job slowly over
to a side gig when possible, because you got this
security of the regular paycheck, the benefits, all that good stuff.
You're kind of you know, that's sort of boosting you.
That's your safety net while you're testing that potential business idea.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, it seems like you're gonna get to a certain point,
like there's a tipping point, and you might have sort
of tapped out the amount that you can grow the
business because of the fact that you still have that
nine to five. Do you have any advice or tips
for folks as they're thinking through, Okay, how do I identify
once I have gotten to that point to where I
know that I'm pretty sure that I could generate a
(15:33):
full time income, but you're just not totally sure. You
see what I'm getting at. It's like there's this point
where you might have to like jump in with both
the air playing going to stay in the air.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely, that happens all the time and one thing
that really worked for me was negotiating with my employer
over time. I needed more time, and so what I
did is ended up negotiating to work part time, to
kind of slowly go from a five day work week
to a four day then later down to a three
(16:02):
day and the timing just worked for me. It was
during the during our last great recession, and so the
company that I was with really couldn't afford me, but
they didn't want to let me go either, and so
I thought, hmm, let me just see if we can
stay part time and then I can continue building my
(16:23):
side business simultaneously. So maybe you do a little negotiating
with your current employer. Can you work different hours, maybe,
you know, earlier in the morning or late at night,
some way that would give you a little bit more time,
you know, And that may not be possible for some
people who could be scared to even bring up the
topic of, you know, negotiating their hours, feeling like that's
(16:45):
just not going to fly with their employer. But it
does come down to juggling time, and so if you
can't create more time, maybe you can even delegate. You know,
for a while, I was delegating, not my side build
business tasks, but my day job tasks. So I was
able to find people who are actually helping me do
(17:07):
my like real job work while I was investing a
lot of time in my side business. So, you know,
finding creative ways to delegate, you know, in some cases
that may be a way around it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And that's a cool way to potentially retire too, right,
like the getting towards the end of your working career
and you don't need to go all or nothing. You
can go from full time to part time and that
just kind of like eases you into it. And I
love that too. You're kind of easing yourself into running
your own business and becoming a full time solopreneur. And
you mentioned the safety net portion of things like that,
(17:40):
a successful exit essentially involves having a solid safety net,
and that is part of the reason that the overlap
can be so clutch. But what else does that include,
Like what is the what other sort of safety net
factors do people need to consider?
Speaker 4 (17:55):
One thing is insurance, you know, certainly health insurance is
a big benefit, a valuable benefit a lot of people
are getting, and that does keep many people from leaving.
But I do want to help people sort of understand,
you've got options, you know, there are other ways to
get coverage. Yes, it's going to be a little bit
(18:15):
more expensive, more than likely than what you were paying
with an employer, because they're getting a group plan, which
is going to be less expensive than an individual plan. However,
there are some really great ways that you can save
money on health insurance, you know. Of course, if you're
making less income when you leave, you're going to qualify
(18:38):
for higher subsidies if you do purchase a marketplace plan,
an ACA qualified plan through the federal or state marketplace,
and those are really easy to shop. So if you're
kind of worried about that, I would say shop it.
You start looking at what is the price of health
insurance if I need to quit my job. Other things
that you're getting at work, like life insurance, maybe disability insurance,
(19:02):
Those are also very easy to replace and in most
cases are probably less expensive than you think, or can
be less expensive. So definitely thinking about what am I
getting right now that I need to duplicate on my
own retirement plan. Of course, Yeah, you're not going to
be getting any matching funds from yourself, you know, but
(19:23):
you can certainly create a pretty nice self employed retirement account.
Those that are set up for businesses, like a SOLO
four H one K or a step ERA let you
put in a lot more than you can with an
employer plan as long as you're making higher income. So
those are actually I think an area where entrepreneurs get
(19:45):
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Of a benefit.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know, they get a kind of a better retirement
plan or the ability to save more on a tax
deferred or tax free basis if you've got that much income.
So those are the main things. And of course, if
you have a business with any kind of liability, maybe
you need a business policy. You maybe need an auto
like a commercial auto policy if you're using a vehicle
(20:09):
for your business. So depending on the type of work
you do, you may need some additional coverage. But I
think it's a lot more affordable than many people might anticipate.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I love that you're getting into these nuts and bolts, Laura,
and we've got plenty more questions to get to on
that front. But I guess before we leave this first section,
one of the benefits of being a small business owner
is that you don't have anyone else telling you what
to do, which is awesome. That's totally great. But if
no one's telling you what to do, how do you
know what to do? And maybe if someone is asking
(20:41):
themselves that question, should that be an indicator that maybe
they're not cut out to own their own business because
they're like I almost feel like there should be a
need when it comes to the business that you're launching
and sort of how it is that you're spending your time.
But if someone doesn't necessarily have that drive, I guess
what would you say to that person.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Yeah, you do need to of what you're doing, and
you know, ideally you love sort of those core functions
in the business that are really driving revenue. But that's
not to say you can't find people or partners to
help you. There are a lot of folks out there
that do like fractional CEO, fractional CMO and you know,
(21:21):
can help you. But I would hope that somebody does
have some skill and expertise, you know, in the core
of what that business is all about. You're going to
be doing this business, hopefully for a long time or
be involved with it, so you know, it should be
something I think that you naturally like to do and
(21:41):
have the skill and ability to do.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Nice We've got a few more questions we want to
get to with you, Laura, and we're going to talk
about some really important ones like how do you find
the clients? How do you get paid? Talk about that
and more. Right after this, we are.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Back from the break again talking with Laura Adams about
starting your own business. And Laura, you mentioned before the
break your friend who is kind of I don't know,
maybe I picture y'all like having this conversation over coffee
and she's like, Oh, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
How do I start this business?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
She wanted to make sure she was taking all the
proper steps to make sure she was doing it in
a legitimate way, maybe in the eyes of the irs
or the government. But a big part of that is
business formation, and there are a lot of different business
entity possibilities out there. Is there a right path for
most solopreneurs out there?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Oh, it's a tough question because it really depends on
your business, your level of potential liability, whether you're going
to have a partner, the amount of income you plan
on making. So most people start out as a soul
proprietor by default because they simply do not know what
(22:55):
they need to do or want to do. So you know,
there's nothing wrong with that, but you do need to
understand how that is different from let's say, becoming an
LLC or becoming an ES corp S corporation. It affects
a lot of your business, so it's going to affect
how you pay taxes. It's going to affect just the
(23:19):
potential liability of your business. So it is something that
you don't want to take lightly. But I will say,
if you know you're somebody who's like a freelancer or
something something that has very low liability, you're probably okay
to start out as a sole proprietor for a little while.
As you begin and you test this business again, as
(23:41):
you begin making money, maybe it's that ten thousand dollars mark.
You can say, now is the point where I need
to get some advice and you want to talk to
I would advise you know, maybe starting out with a CPA,
a tax advisor. They can definitely look at your business
and make some recommendations for you that they might send
you to an attorney if you have a complex situation,
(24:04):
but in most cases a CPA is going to be
able to explain to you kind of the tax pros
and cons of different business entities.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
My business, I'm an LLC.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I pay taxes as a sole proprietor, though with an
LLC you can choose that or you can choose to
be taxed as a corporation, so you've got some flexibility
with that particular structure. And you know, it gets a
little complicated, but bottom line is you either need to
pay taxes with money that's flowing to you as an individual,
(24:39):
or you pay tax on the behalf of your company.
And so they're pros and cons to both of those.
But for me, my level of liability is such that
I'm okay with the LLC that gives me enough protection
and I'm just fine having income passed through to me
as an individual and paying that on my individual tax
(25:02):
return each year. So that's kind of how it works.
And I'd say most people I know who are in
my same situation who have a side business or built
a side business into a full time business or doing
something similar. I also know folks that are s corporations.
That also allows you to incorporate and have money flow
through to you as an individual. So you know, get
(25:26):
a little advice, maybe listen to a few podcasts on
this topic. Do a little digging and you'll find out
quickly what the differences are. But the bottom line is
there is no one right or wrong answer. It all
depends on your goals and your needs in the business today.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Well, okay, making or paying tax assumes you're making money,
which is a good thing, right as a business owner,
that's what you're going for. You're like, there's like a
success tax, which is paying the irs a percentage of
the income that you've generated, and that's an awesome thing.
That means you've arrived, right, I guess. So let's say
someone has a solid business idea, they formed an entity,
(26:03):
but now they've got to get the word out they
want to generate that income. What suggestions do you have
for people when it comes to finding paying.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Clients paying clients?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Yes, you know, it all depends on where they live.
And I know a lot of people who are really
trying to do things that is not going to move
the needle forward.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
They think that being on social media all day long.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Is going to move the needle forward when none of
their clients, their potential clients, are on their social media channels,
nor do they want to be. And so I think
a lot of people have this idea like, oh, I'm
supposed to be making these great Instagram posts or I'm
supposed to be here or there, and that may work.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
That may be the case, but it may not. And
so really.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Understanding where your clients are, who are they how can
you best reach them? That's ultimately where you've got to
invest the majority of your time in marketing and advertising,
no matter your your business or your business's size. So
you do have to not make any assumptions. And if
(27:11):
you are spending a lot of time on social media
and it's not bringing you results, you got to pivot.
You really have to have to have to make a
move and do something different and test something else. So
I guess you can't make an assumption that just because
somebody else is getting a lot of leads off of Instagram,
that that's going to work for you. You have to
(27:32):
ask yourself some pretty hard questions like where where is
my ideal client? And you know, maybe they you're in
a B to B business, you know, maybe it's more
like LinkedIn or doing something that's a little bit more
sophisticated in reaching them.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
So that is tough.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That is probably I'd say one of the most challenging
aspects of running a business, especially something like you know,
what I'm doing. For me, there's not one group people
sort of sitting in one bucket somewhere, and so trying
to figure out how do I really reach the people
who I want to work with. You know, there are
(28:10):
a lot of people out there who probably would work
with me, but maybe you know, they're not my ideal client.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
So that's been a challenge for me.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
And I can definitely tell people, you know, my sort
of secret, I guess has been just trying different things
and figuring out some simple things that have worked, and
then just doubling down on those things and just doing
it over and over, week after.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Week, just keep hitting it. How long you said the
word test, so it sounds like you're testing different avenues.
How long would you And gosh, it's got a very
right depending on the industry they're in the specific business,
maybe what avenue that they are considering, but how what
kind of effort do you think most folks need to
give a certain directory or a certain listing or social
(28:55):
media or even going in person and going to kind
of like in person meetups that kind of thing before
they should pivot.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I would say maybe a minimum of six months
would probably give you an idea. I would say if
your lead time, if you don't have a really long
lead time in your business, like you know, you're if
you're selling something that takes a year, you know lead time,
that maybe you would need a little bit more time.
But if you're somebody that's looking for clients, that you
(29:23):
should be able to get down your funnel within a
few weeks.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I would say six.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Months is probably plenty of time to know if something
is bringing in not only the quantity of leads, but
quality leads.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What about pricing, Laura, Because like, I have a buddy
who he kind of has this amazing idea of this business.
He wants to start locally. But when it comes to
when people ask him reach out even proactively, hey how
much how much for the thing you're making, he's typically like, oh, well,
I'll do it for this and it's not too much
above the cost and so but it's basically it's hard
(29:59):
to figure out whether or not this could be profitable
for him. How to solopreneurs how should they figure out
what they should charge clients and how like, how do
they know what they're worth.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
This is really tough too.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I think a good way to start is to think
think about what your ideal income is in a year,
you know a realistic number, and work your way from
that and say, okay, from that, how many clients what
I really need? And is that realistic or how many
things would I need to sell and at what margin?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
So that's one way to do it. You know, another way.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Is competitive You could look at other people that are
in your industry you're doing something similar. Now they may
be very underpriced, so that's hard to know, but it
could give you just some kind of you know, a point,
whether it's high or low. If you see several competitors,
you could sort of take an average of what they're doing.
(30:58):
And of course being value based is probably the best way.
And I think you know, the ability to earn more
by doing less comes from really pricing yourself well, being
able to provide a lot of value that someone is
willing to pay you very well to get that service
(31:18):
or to get that product from you. And that does
take a little bit of finesse. It does take time
to understand, you know, what is the value here, what
am I bringing? And so thinking about what someone's The
alternative is, let's say if you give somebody a quote,
some kind of a proposal, thinking about where else could
(31:39):
they go to get this service if they don't get
it from me, where else could they go, you know,
and if it's not very likely that they could get
it or get it quickly, you know, maybe you're underpricing yourself.
Maybe you need to be a little bit more confident.
So that's something that I've had to struggle with as well.
Do you overpriced yourself and let some deals fino all
(32:00):
in the garbage? Or you know, do you underprice and
maybe feel like hmm, you know, this is something that
I'm not truly excited about.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
You want you want to be in the middle.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
You don't ever want to have a product or service
sold that you don't feel is really worth your time
and effort.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I like that, Yeah, looking at the unique selling proposition
that you're able to offer by looking at the alternatives.
What about as folks are starting to generate some of
this income, I think a lot of folks might be
turned off by the fact that they don't have a
steady income. I remember when my wife and I started
our first business, there was highs there's certain months that
felt like we were kings and queen of the like
(32:35):
queens of the world. But then there's some months where
I'm just like, oh my gosh, we don't have any
money coming in this month. I mean, and obviously I
think the solution here is just to have some margin
built in. But I guess how would you talk to
clients about that? How do you talk to friends? How
would you advise folks to get over this hurdle of
that erratic income.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's never going to go away, so you got to
get comfortable with the uncomfortable. And I think most entrepreneurs
are willing. They're risk takers, maybe by heart. You know,
maybe if you don't think of yourself as a risk taker,
you know, maybe there's a little bit of that in you,
and you know you're going to be able to let that,
let part of you grow and feel more comfortable with
(33:16):
taking risk. Again, that's a great reason to keep the
day job if you can while you make the transition.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
But the variable.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Income is something that most entrepreneurs are going to deal with,
and you know, there's some ways that you can kind
of smooth it out. One way is to create what
I call a holding account for your income. And then
once you put money in that holding account, you pay
yourself sort of a regular salary or a regular amount
(33:46):
on a monthly basis. And so on the good months,
you're going to let that holding account get bigger and bigger.
But then on the months where the business hasn't done
quite as well as you would have liked, you're still
going to be able to pay yourself the same, but
the holding account is going to decrease. So something like
that can help you smooth out and irregular income, it
(34:08):
still doesn't take the worry, you know, or maybe the
stress away in most cases. So this is why it's
so wise to go into a new business with a
kind of a buffer, a financial buffer. Maybe it's a
certain number of months in savings, like in a like
a superpower emergency fund that you really beef up so
(34:32):
that you're going to be okay. You're going to feel
safe if the business doesn't do as well as you hoped,
or it just is going to be seasonal, you know,
could be that just some seasons are not going to
be profitable for you, and you're going to need to
be comfortable with, you know, continuing and waiting and just
kind of knowing that those good months are going to come.
(34:53):
So that's a difficult part about being self employed. And
I would say you got to just youve got to
just make make it, you know, part of your mindset.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, I think highlighting those in advance can be powerful. Like,
for instance, Matt, you're the business you're alluding to is
wedding photographer. Guess what, January not the biggest month for weddings, right,
but if you know spring and fall and are going
to be kind of your heavy hitting seasons.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
When I was raking in the car, it yeah, exactly,
but it's it's it's somewhat predictable.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
It's not one hundred percent predictable, but it's somewhat predictable,
and you should be able to kind of look ahead
and say, yeah, it's gonna be lean for a couple
of months, so kind of stock up while the sun shines.
I'm curious to Laura, one of the things that I
think some people starting a business get excited about is deductions.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
You know, we were talking about taxes just a second ago.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, oh man, these things I'm buying for my business,
I get to deduct them all my taxes. You know,
talk to us about deducting business expenses, and uh, yeah,
is the hype? Is the hype worth it?
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:54):
You know, in some cases it is like, you know,
if you get to travel and you can make a
business trip a little personal, you know, that portion of
the trip that is business gets to be deducted. Those
are some of the biggest perks for me. I was
recently down in Miami working for a client down there,
(36:14):
and I extended the trip. My husband came and we
had a wonderful weekend down there, and so a portion
of that trip is deductible. But you know, there are
a lot of things also maybe to think about if
you're working from home, so like a home office. If
you qualify for the home office deduction, that can also
(36:35):
make some of your personal expenses fully or partially deductible.
So that's kind of the sweet spot. I think if
you can work from home, you know, you do a
little bit of traveling. But of course, all the expenses
related to creating income in your business are always one
hundred percent deductible, but the home office it may be
(36:57):
just a percentage of Some of those expenses is like
your rent or you know, mortgage insurance, some of those things.
So that's kind of a nice perk.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Is that still based on the on the ratio of
the square footage of your home office compared.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
To the rest of the house. That's how it used
to be.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
At least there's a simple way they do it now
where they give you five bucks per square foot basically
where you don't have to keep up with your expenses,
so you can do the simplified method or actually, you know,
list everything out and choose the method that gives you
the largest deduction. But basically, you know, if you've got
(37:36):
a fairly decent sized home office, itemizing everything listing everything
out usually means you're going to come out ahead. So
it's wise to keep really good records of all of
your expenses related to home and business and take advantage
of it. And if you don't understand any of what
we are talking about, you need to go to an
(37:56):
accountant and at least get them, let them set you
up the first year that you're in business, and maybe
you can you know, kind of keep up with it
on your own after that. And if you're really not
inclined to do bookkeeping, I would hand it over to
them one hundred percent, but they will help you maximize
deduction so that you pay as little tax as possible.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Kind of on that note, do you think for a
lot of folks working from home makes the most sense?
Does it kind of depend on their distractability and how
adhd they might be. Yes, the vices right is on
or like, oh, let me go ahead and just throw
another lot of laundry in, or oh, actually I need
to flip that laundry and then before you know it,
you're actually not working on your business at all.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
What would you say to those folks?
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, it is very personality dependent, and I do think
a lot of entrepreneurs tend to be driven people, you know,
just broadly speaking, so you know, they're probably more suited
to being able to do that. But I definitely know
a lot of people who need to get out. You know,
maybe they've got small kids at home, they need to
(38:59):
have an office, they need to separate work and home,
and you may want to just build that into the
cost of your business if you don't have a local business,
or you know, you don't have employees where you're meeting
that kind of thing. So I do think it comes
with a lot of great tax benefits if it's right
for you don't work from home at the detriment of
(39:19):
your business just to say, oh, I can work from home.
You know, you've got to be productive and make sure
that you're building building a business. You know you're bringing
in as much revenue as possible.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, all right, Laura, We've got a few more questions
to get to with You want to specifically talk about
mistakes to avoid, and we want to talk about paying
for help. We'll get to a few questions on both
of those topics right after this.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We are talking about how you can be a money
smart solarpreneur with Laura Adams and Laura. Right before the break,
Joel mentioned maybe some of the different mistakes that a
solopreneur might.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Make, and uh, here's one.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But you've actually talked about not spending enough on the
right thing. You talk about how that's one of them.
Do you think there are any specific areas when it
comes to business expenses that you see solopreneurs maybe being
a little too cheap on, Like oftentimes on the show
we have like a frugal versus cheap segment where man
I really thought that was gonna be a frugal move,
but in the end, it ends up biting us in
(40:20):
the butt. Do you also see that apply to owning
your own business.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I do.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I think that many times people are not investing in
good advice, whether that's legal, accounting, even branding, general just operations.
It really pays off when you pay somebody who's done
what you want to do or need to do, and
they can condense like thirty years of experience into a
(40:47):
couple hours of consultation with you. It can be some
of the wisest money that you ever spend in your business.
But a lot of people think, oh, I can do
this myself, Why I don't need anybody's help, And you know,
we feel very want it, like we want to be independent.
I think in a lot of cases we need to
just admit that there are people out there that know
(41:09):
a lot more than we do, and it's really smart
to tap into that. So you've got to figure out
what that is for you any areas of your business
that you're struggling with. Literally having a thirty minute phone
call with an expert could completely revolutionize what you're doing
in your business.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
And of course that's great advice, and it's free advice
from lauras I appreciate that, so did.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
You charge you for that?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Now?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
In taxes, this is another area that this is a
huge mistake that people mess up on. And typically the
first year they don't know that they need to pay
estimated quarterly taxes and so all this money is, you know,
coming into the account, maybe it's all being spent, and
then they're fortunate enough to have made some money. Taxes
(41:55):
come around and it's like, oh, we've got a we've
got a really hefty tax bill here. So the second
year you're kind of in the hole. You're you're trying
to pay off those taxes that you owed from the
first year, and that just doesn't set yourself up for
a good second year or third year or beyond. So
don't underestimate the pain that it could could take and
(42:20):
make on your business if you're not setting yourself up
to pay estimated taxes and be on time and not
behind with your taxes when you go into year two.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, and even making those quarterly estimates, even that can
also be painful, So you have to cozy up to that.
The EFTPS dot gov. Yes, I love that system at
it's the most upddate software. It feels very much like
Apple iosa teen intuitive. Yeah, yeah, every time, Like how
do you do this again? And I just I shake
my fist of the sky. But I digress.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Laura.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
You talk about in your book, which is such a
helpful book if somebody wants to get started building their
own business. You list a bunch of helpful tools for solopreneurs.
And the great thing you said at the very beginning,
and I think you're spot on, is that it's easier
than ever in so many ways to start your own business.
Think about everything's so many things can be done online again,
and you can even have a client facing service where
through zoom calls. But like, what are the tools that
(43:17):
are most helpful alleviating some of the biggest pain points
that solopreneurs have.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
Yeah, I definitely think a good bookkey keeping or accounting
software is going to help. You know, even if you
have an accountant, they need you to be organized. You know,
you can't just show up with the shoe box of receipts,
although I'm sure a lot of people do that. You
need to be able to understand what's going on with
your business through just some simple reporting. And if you're
(43:44):
entering and having all of your transactions pulled into something
that's intuitive and easy to use. You're going to have
great reporting, You're going to be able to tag certain transactions.
It just will make a world of difference in your.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Day to day.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
So that's awesome, you know. I'd say also some of
the communication tools that we're using for me, Slack has
been fantastic working with clients and being able to kind
of centralize communication with them. Trying to think of what
else I really love. There are some great new products
(44:20):
that are out there that even incorporate banking, business banking
with bookkeeping. So I would say definitely have a good
business bank, one that doesn't.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Charge you but maybe pays you a little interest.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
You know, wouldn't that be nice, So that the business
bank you choose needs to really flow with how you
do business. Some people are going to need something very
robust because maybe they're taking credit cards, they're doing some
kind of payment transactions that they need to handle, and
maybe other people just kind of will use it very sparingly.
(44:58):
But whatever the needs are for you, talk to your
bank if you're not getting the service that you need.
In a lot of cases, they can actually customize things
for you as your business grows and changes. So this
is something I've learned after working with banks over many
years helping them with marketing and pr. They're actually there
(45:20):
are some very good banks out there, and they really
want to work with businesses to kind of tailor programs
and products for them based on their needs. So I
would say, if you're struggling with transactions, you're struggling with bookkeeping,
finding the right bank can be a really good solution
to just helping you stay organized.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
That makes sense. What about tools as far as finding contractors?
You talk about the beauty of solopreneurship is the fact
that it's a bunch of individuals and they all specialize
in their own thing and you get to hire those individuals.
Do you have any recommendations when it comes to finding
some different folks that you're looking to basically plug and
play to get these folks plugged into your business so
(46:02):
you can immediately hit the ground running.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah, you know, certainly.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Personal referrals are some of the best ways to find people,
but there's so many great platforms out there just depending
on the type of work you need.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
I mean, even fiver is just a.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Wealth of information these days about for people and they're
all over the world doing all kinds of very specialized
types of work. So you know, if you maybe know
somebody who knows somebody, that's what I love. I love
getting a personal referral. But definitely look at what's available
out there with marketplaces, whether it's engineering. Maybe you need
(46:43):
somebody to do some advanced computer work for you. I
have also found you know a lot of people simply
by searching Google. I mean looking at if you're looking
for somebody to help you with SEO, well, if they
pop up at the top of the Google search results,
you know they're probably they know their stuff, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
So it just depending on the type of work you need.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
I would say, don't be afraid to try different people too,
and let people know we're going to work together on
a trial basis. Let's work together for thirty days or
sixty days.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
Don't maybe over promise.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Just try to let people know you're going to test
them out for a little while, and that way they'll
be sure to really give you their best, and you
can be clear about the fact that you know, I
may not be working with you forever, but if you're
really good, I may have a lot of future work
for you, so testing people out a little bit. You
may even have some of your friends' kids that would
(47:41):
love to work for you for free. Some of them
are looking for internships, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:47):
Free, they're looking for experience.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
They want to put something on a resume. So a
lot of them are exactly they have skills.
Speaker 5 (47:57):
So don't overlook those those young And.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What about accountability and motivation, Laura, because the solopreneur lifestyle
can get a little lonely. You are, like you said,
kind of connected in this ecosystem of other solopreneurs who
you can hire and do work for, and that's kind
of beautiful and wonderful in so many ways. But what
if you're, let's say, in that first couple of first
(48:21):
couple of years, trying to get the ball rolling, It
can get a little demoralizing. So do you have any
like tips for people to stay motivated, to kind of
have somebody else in their corner who's cheering them on.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Yeah, if you have a group of like minded people,
doesn't have to be people in your industry. Maybe even
sometimes it's better if they're not in your industry, but
you're kind of all at the same level, whether you know,
whether it's just starting out or you're in a growth phase,
having like a monthly just a monthly video call to
chat about challenges or ways to save money. Tips for
(48:58):
each other that I think can be really helpful. Not
only is it a social connection, but you can give
each other some tips and advice for problems that you're experiencing.
If you are in your house all day and you
really feel isolated, make a point to get out, go
work in a coffee shop one day a week or
(49:21):
even every other week. Just being around other people, kind
of being in a different environment can really recharge you
and keep you motivated. So if yeah, I would say
you got to know yourself. And if you start to
feel depressed about being at home or like your energy
is just being sapped because you're by yourself all day,
(49:43):
make a point to get out, take a walk, take breaks.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
I do that. I get out, take a lot.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Of walks and breaks, and it's just a good way
to mentally recharge. It definitely will lift your mood again.
Getting a walk good for the good for the body,
good for the health. To get yourself moving, get the
blood flow, you become so creative. I get some of
my best ideas when I'm out, just taking a brisk walk, and.
Speaker 5 (50:07):
I usually do bring my phone.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
I like to listen, as we talked about, listen to podcasts,
but also i'll take voice memos if I think about things,
just kind of constantly talking into the voice memo. The
people who see me probably think I'm great. Yeah, you know,
these fleeing things that come into your brain. I know,
if I don't get it down right away, I'll forget it.
(50:32):
So it can be a great way to brainstorm if
you need a brainstorm by yourself, but of course if
you can brainstorm with other people, that is always going
to be probably the most effective way to get over
some of the hurdles that a lot of business owners have.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
I love it. Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
A change of scenery and how that can get the
creative juices flow, and kind of going back to what
you're saying earlier, just solopreneurship in general, it's just interesting,
right then, The ability to interact with different folks within
your industry or even outside of outside of your industry.
The ability to just see some folks at the coffee
shop can spur a lot of fun conversations. But Laura,
we really appreciate you taking the time to talk with
us today, working folks to learn more about you, your
(51:11):
podcast and your book.
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Yeah, everybody can definitely check out Money Girl.
Speaker 5 (51:16):
We do shows twice a week.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
They're coming out on Wednesdays, they're coming out on Fridays.
I also have a newsletter called The Money Stack. It's
a sub stack, and when you sign up for free,
I've got some good gifts. Like one of them is
called a Money Success Toolkit, So it's a financial planner
and a personal financial statement. It's actually the same statement
(51:39):
that I use a template for tracking and keeping up
with my net worth, which is something I always recommend
that people do. Kind of looking at that on an
annual basis is a great way to kind of just
take the temperature of your financial health, if you will,
whether you're improving or flat or decreasing in terms of
(51:59):
your network. So I'd love people to sign up for
the Money Stack again, it's free and we have lots
of fun stuff in the newsletters that come out each week.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Very cool, Laura, thank you so much for joining us today.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
Matt and Joel, you guys are amazing. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Well Joel, I'm so thankful that Laura Adams was able
to set aside a little portion of her day to
talk to us about starting our own business. Something she
did something I honestly, I guess most folks out there
who are creating and publishing, like by default they've sort
of gone through this, but it's not something that everyone
talks about. Some folks are better at it than others.
But I think Laura had a lot to say about
(52:36):
how to do this in a way that is going
to make the most sense. It's like the most pain
free way to maybe start a business. Yeah, is what
I think about when I think of her book.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
And let's be honest, it's just kind of motivating to
get out there and I don't know, start something even
when maybe it's been in the back of your brain
for a long time. And I think that's one of
the bigges hurdles of people need to overcome. And one
of the things that Laura is really helping people do.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Totally was that your big takeaway now, all right, more general,
kind of vague, I'll give my big takeaway, and I
think it is to dial back slowly on your current
job while you're implementing the new thing, and it's what
we did. Right when we were starting the podcast, it
was like, cool, let's record late at night one night,
and so we were burning the midnight oil for a while,
and it took time to build this thing up into
(53:18):
being like, wait a second, could we potentially at some
point ditch our day jobs? All right, well, let's not
do it yet, Like, let's build that financial runway. Let's
also make sure that the proof of concept is going
to endure. But yeah, over time we were like taking
steps back and building this thing up, taking steps forward
in the business area, and then finally we were able
(53:39):
to jett us in the day job down the road.
So it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You
don't necessarily have to put forty hours a week into this,
but find out if there's a proof of concept, find
out if there's something you enjoy doing, and then later
on down the road, you can move the dimmer switch
on both your day job and your side hustle, turning
one into a little bit a little going down on
(54:01):
the other one's going up. Right, Yeah, I think that
can help folks to feel more comfortable in making that transition, obviously,
but one of the things she said that you have
to kind of get used to no matter what is
being comfortable with the uncomfortable. Yeah, that's when we're talking
about that irregular income.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
There's no IT department to come solve your computer issues.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Right yeah. Yeah, Well, and specifically to when it comes
to income, like it doesn't really matter I guess how
successful you are, Like there's it's still variable. Like it's
still not something that you can one hundred percent count
on being there. It's going to very month to month
or from quarter to quarter, year to year even. And
so when it comes to your personal finances that I
think what that means is making sure things are really
(54:40):
buttoned up because you have to be able to weather
some of those I don't want to call them storms
because it's just a natural part. I guess storms are
a natural part of weather. Yeah, but they happen fairly often.
It's think of it more like a shower, like an
afternoon shower. It's going to happen, and so just being
able to handle that and expecting that. That's the part
of owning your own business as well. I don't think
everyone's cut out for that, and I think those are
(55:02):
the folks who are like yeah, no, I could never
do that, But other folks, I just want you to
realize that there are ways to mitigate some of those disturbances,
if that's what you might call it, to your income.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
I think I had like a mental barrier to not
receiving a paycheck every two weeks then, and it took
time for me to get adjusted to that. But it
also took just financial preparation, having more in savings, knowing
that that was going to be the case, and that
resolved a lot of that anxiety that I felt. So
know that, Yeah, you might be like I really like
itting two paychecks a month.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Most people do, but it doesn't mean that you can't
get over.
Speaker 3 (55:36):
That hurdle too. Totally agree.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Let's get to our beer. You and I enjoyed head High.
That's an IPA from Cain Brewing Company. Caine spelled with
a K. This is another one donated to the show
by Michael G. This is a brewery out of Ocean,
New Jersey. I'm just gonna say that this was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
So good. I was not expected.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
I mean, I've never heard of these guys, never heard
any thing about this brewery. But it poured really pretty,
and man was it delicious. I've heard good things actually
about that. Yeah, yeah, you read your craft Beer Digest
message boards have song the praises of Caine for a
long time, but I've never really been able to get
my hands on him.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
So a big thanks to listener Michael for sending this
one our way. This was truly next level. It was
like fresh, vibrant and juicy.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
It was so fresh.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah, that's the first thing.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Once I took a sip, you realize it tasted alive.
Like this is almost tasted like one of those fresh
hot beers, but on the nose, super citrusy and just
was incredibly bright on the tongue as you're drinking it
as well. Really really enjoyed this one.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
They might have put extra into this one because this
was I think at thirteenth anniversary beer, but this, I
mean incredible, incredible IPA. So yeah, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (56:44):
Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Everyone else can head to our show notes up on
the website at how tomoney dot com. That's where you
can learn more about Laura where you can find her
book as well. But buddy, that's going to be it
for this episode until next time. Best friends out, best
friends out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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