February 10, 2021 • 32 mins
Whether men and women should handle their money differently is an important question to ask. There are a lot of different studies and surveys out there that show that your gender has a pretty large impact on how you earn, spend, save, and invest your money- but should it? After all money is money! And of course there are generalities made in these studies because obviously we’re all individuals and handle money in our own unique ways. But that being said, there are still things we can learn from the data about the views, tendencies, and actions of each gender in the realm of personal finance. Recognizing these things will allow us to understand others better, we’ll do a better job at raising our children to handle money well, and we might even gain a better insight of ourselves along the way.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Matt and today we're asking the question should women and
men handle money differently? Oh dude, I can't believe we
(00:27):
actually went through with this topic. I'd like to ask
questions that could potentially get me in trouble that we're
actually going to do an episode on this, But we
you know, after discussion, you and I thought that there,
you know, there were definitely some insights that we can
glean from talking about how it is that men and
women might be handling their money differently. And then there's
just so many studies to that inform us about how
(00:48):
men and women have handled money differently in the past.
But I think, too, um, there's a way forward after
we see that that information, and I think, yeah, you
and I are gonna have some some good advice, hopefully
to share for men and women based on the stats
that we've seen and the studies that are out there.
And we're gonna also do our very best to not
completely step in it, because that's what I feel like
right now, is that we're about to step in it. Well,
(01:09):
I promise we're not going to come at this from
like a madman perspective. Okay, even though we do like
a nice beverage during our work day as well. Before
we get into that, though, you want to talk about
this fence issue that you've got going on and my
hyping it up. Maybe it's not an issue. Actually, well
it remains we seen whether it's an issue or not yet.
So at one of my rental properties, um my my
next door neighbor who actually have never met I we
(01:31):
used to live in that home. My next door neighbor
rent out his home and and so even when we
lived in that house, I never met him, but he
left a note on the door saying, hey, please call me.
I want to talk about some stuff. My tenant really
that on over to me, and it turns out he
wants to replace the fence that goes in between both
of our yards. And I will say, the fence not
(01:51):
attractive and in sections it actually, uh looks pretty rough.
It's a chain link fence that's just yeah, has not
held up well over the years. But chain link fenstance
have definitely fallen out of favor. I mean, I'm not
gonna lie. They're pretty hideous, Like we've got one on
the back back side of I mean from a utility standpoint,
they're pretty great. I mean it's like they will probably
be there for another hundred years if you let it.
(02:13):
You know, well, this one definitely will not really know,
it's already kind of fallen apart in some spots, and
so yeah, he wants to to replace it together. And
so we're in the midst of getting a quote to
kind of see how much it costs and if it's inexpensive.
UM willing to jump in on this especially. It's just
like it's I feel like it's the right neighborly thing
to do. But I will say too, man, if the
quote comes back and it's too high, I'm not going
to be down for it because it is something that's
(02:34):
just not a high priority on my list. I've never
had a tenant complain about the fact that the fence
isn't in perfect shape. And so yeah, it's kind of
one of those like TBD as to whether or not, UM,
you know, willing to go half and half on this fence,
But my gut is telling me probably not. I don't know.
Is that frugal or cheap of me? Ah? Man, This
is such a hard one because so on one hand,
(02:56):
with it being a rental. Like, in my mind, that's
one of the benefits, you know, of having a backyard
here in the city is the ability to have a pet.
And so for runners thinking, hey, I've got a pet,
I would like for them to be able to run
in the backyard. To me, like, that's a selling point
to having, you know, having a fenced in kind of
closed in backyard. Well, and they do actually, so interestingly enough,
this fence is kind of up slightly raised on a hill,
and and so many of my tenants have had animals.
(03:18):
None of those animals have ever gotten out through the fence.
So it's it's still does this job, okay, animals and
still climb hills though, right, no they can, but it's
just it's it's not possible really to get through or
over the fence, even with like the disrepair that it
might be in. So I mean, okay, So the reason
I say that because we found ourselves in a similar
situation years ago at our old house. Before we moved out,
(03:39):
we knew that we were going to keep that house
as a rental, and the fence between us and our
neighbor was in complete disrepair. I mean it was like
literally there are sections of it that had fallen over.
It was an old wooden fence. It had completely rotted
out over decades of being exposed to the elements, right,
And so in my mind, I was like, you know what,
I'm willing to pay because in this case, this is
going to be a selling point I guess for future pendants.
(04:00):
But yeah, I mean the fact is is it sounds
like the fence that you've got there currently it still works, uh,
And so I would have a tough time agreeing to
replacing something that still is kind of getting the job done. Um.
And honestly, dude, from a personal standpoint too, like I
know that's like, if any of my neighbors here like
next to us wanted to kind of go in on
a fence, I'm not sure if I would say yes,
because I partly feel that fences are a little overrated.
(04:23):
Sounds specifically thinking of our next door neighbors. They don't
have any pets. We don't have any pets. Uh, They've got,
you know, a couple of young kids. And if that
fence were to fall over or start to rot and
we wanted to get rid of it, like I would
be totally okay if it was just one big open backyard,
Like I wouldn't even mind if their kids kind of,
you know, played in our back yard a little bit.
And so I feel like this is like one of
those expenses that it's found its way into our culture
(04:44):
and it's like, oh, you've got to have a fence,
or if there was in every yard, or if there
was the fence there, you have to replace it, right
Whereas I want to ask the question of like, well
do you actually need to replace it, like is that
something that that you could do without, because it's not
like I gain a lot of joy from the back
that there's a fence between us. And so I think
in my mind it kind of depends if it's Yeah,
if it's an investment, property or rental, I would lean
(05:06):
more towards making sure that there is a functional structure
there between homes. But if it's me personally, as long
as they don't have a dog, like I don't want
a dog running over pooping in the yard, that would suck.
But otherwise fences might be overrated. All right, I think
I'm with you, And yeah, well I'll wait and see
what the what the quote comes back out, Yeah, if
it's a pretty low estimate. If it's reasonable, then I
(05:27):
might um jump in on this, But my natural tendency
is to say, now, the kind of crumby fence is
mostly doing its job, still gets it done, so let's
just leave good enough alone. I actually still want to
see how that fence is falling apart, because in my mind,
channeling fences, they don't fall apart like I mean, they're
made a metal. All right, I'll show you some pictures. Yeah,
all right, let's not mentioned the beer that we're having
(05:49):
on the show today. This one's called on Cassette. It's
my new Anthem. This is a brewery out of North Carolina.
They make excellent beer. So looking forward to sharing this
one on this episode with you today, Matt. But let's
get onto the subject at hand. We're asking the questions
should women and men handle money differently? And Matt, I
think part of the reason that we decided to tackle
this kind of sensitive topic this week is because Valentine's
(06:11):
Day is coming up this weekend. We figured we'd create
an episode that discusses the differences between how men and
women handle money. There will, of course be some generalizations
in this episode. We want to get that out of
the way upfront. Many women buck the trend and handle
their money very differently than how studies show, And we're
gonna be quoting a lot of studies in this episode
Brace Yourself, Yeah, and vice versa two. Right, there's a
(06:34):
lot of men who handle money a whole lot different
than studies show as well. I think there's a general
belief that men shoot from the hip when it comes
to money, and some of the surveys bear that out.
But that's obviously not the case for all dudes either.
But I think there are things that we can learn
from the data about the tendencies of each sex and
their views and actions in the realm of personal finance. Matt,
(06:56):
we want to have an open combo today essentially about
the pros and cons of how men and women stereotypically
handle money, so that we can find some common ground
and then all start to make better financial decisions based
on the information that's set in front of us. Yeah,
that's right. And and you know you mentioned the research,
and I'm glad you did, because I mean, that is
what we're gonna be looking at. We're gonna be looking
at surveys, reports, research, um. And even though these studies
(07:19):
are focusing on individuals tweets, maybe some tweets, maybe no tweets. Uh, Like,
I wanted to mention that we're we're not necessarily downplaying
the fact that there are like structural issues within like
our society and within employers, right like specific companies that
lead to some of these some of these differences between
how men and women are treated or how they handle
(07:41):
their money. Right, Like, there are certainly changes that need
to be made in different steps that companies and you know,
our society as a whole need to take to make
sure there is more parity. But I mean, this is
how the money and so what we talked about, or
like personal changes we can make in our own lives.
We're not necessarily looking at policy. We're not looking at
some some of these larger issues that are a part
of the equation. Yeah, but it is important to acknowledge
(08:02):
that they exist and say that's, you know, part of
the deal here. We are gonna and some of the
stats that we're going to convey in this episode are
in part related to some of the structural problems that
exist in our society. Yeah, man, you know, it's also
important to note that COVID man it has had an
even greater impact on women than it has on men. Uh.
You know, we talked about the swords the end of
(08:23):
last year, but an overwhelming number of women have left
the workplace since spring of last year, in large part
due to the child care needs of their families. Women
are leaving their jobs at a rate four times the
rate of men, which is crazy. And a recent Fidelity
study found that thirty nine percent of women who haven't
you know, made a change yet are considering a change
(08:44):
to their work situation, you know, either leaving their job
or you know, maybe reducing hours due to COVID. And
the same study estimates that taking a short career hiatus
could cost upwards of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
in future wealth. Yeah, and so it's just some wanting
to note that these decisions have implications beyond just money.
Uh you know, but it's you know, worth noting that
(09:05):
many women find themselves in an even more precarious financial
position right now. Yeah, man, I think too. As we'll
see in this episode. Part of the problem isn't that
women are worse with money than men. That is, I
think sometimes there prevailing narrative, but that's not actually true,
and I think actually, when we dig into it, we'll
find in many of the scenarios we're gonna talk about,
women actually have a better concept of how to handle
(09:27):
their money, and they actually handle money better in practice too. Yeah,
they do a better job. Yeah, ultimately that that's that's
certainly part of the takeaway today. And but one of
the issues that women do struggle with more than men
is the level of confidence that they have when making
money decisions. There was a study of small business owners
from the University of Cambridge, and they found that fewer
women admitted to their business prospering compared to their male counterparts,
(09:51):
even though their businesses were experiencing a greater level of profitability.
So women their businesses were doing better, doing great, but
they just couldn't admit it. They couldn't they didn't have
the confidence to say that that was the case. And
maybe some of it was, um the the opposite, a
little too much bravado in the case of the mails
in that survey, right. But I think one of the
(10:12):
things that we want to talk about today on this
show is you know, you and I both want to
see men and women exude confidence in their money choices,
and confidence is tied to knowing what you're doing. You
can be confident when you know how the game is
played and you know the next steps to take, which
is Matt just such a big part of the reason
you and I started How to Money. So we want
people to have confidence to make the right moves with
(10:34):
their money. And I feel like the feedback we get
from so many of our listeners is that that's the
impact that the show has had. People who didn't otherwise
know what to do. They now have a playbook and
that breeds confidence. Um, and that allows them to go
out there and start kicking but with their personal finances, absolutely, dude. Yeah,
and and and so one of the reasons too that
we're talking about this today, uh, and why we feel
(10:56):
this is so important is that hopefully this gives us
maybe a little bit of insight into the inner workings
of our spouse or our partner, you know, a little
window into how their brain functions. I think that better
understanding of why our significant other thinks the way they
do about money can be helpful in future money discussions
and decisions. And plus two, you know, hopefully it has
(11:16):
further reaching implications as well. You know, the more known
and understood someone feels like that's gonna lead to them
feeling more cared for, more loved, which is only going
to result in a stronger relationship. Yeah, knowing our partner's
tendencies is super helpful in how we approach them with
discussions in particular about money. Maybe we'll be less combative
when we're bringing up the topic in general because we
(11:38):
better understand, like where they're coming from. Also, Matt, I
think knowing the money tendencies that each sex is prone
to it can actually help us teach our kids to
handle their money better versus using outdated methods of instruction
that may be led to some of the disparities that
we see in financial outcomes for men and women. Currently,
families look different in one than they looked thirty years
(11:58):
ago or even just a decade. Stats show that we're
seeing far more stay at home dads and more women
bringing home the bacon. And that's awesome. So let's make
sure that our sons and daughters received the identical lessons
when it comes to money. And I think, Matt, sometimes
in the past, um that that wasn't the case that
young girls and young boys were taught differently about how
to think about money and personal finances. And I think
(12:20):
in today's day and age, they need the same lessons
because they're both just as likely to go out in
the workforce, they're both just as likely to own their
own business, to be saving for things for the future,
and to be investing for their retirement, and so they
need all of the same personal finance knowledge poured into
their lives as youngsters. Yeah, I mean, the reason that
they're just as likely as also too, because they're just
(12:41):
as capable, right, and so you know, another I guess
reason too that we feel this is important is because
we you know, we hope that listeners will be able
to handle their money better by being able to recognize
certain patterns and tendencies, you know, regardless of their gender. Uh,
you might realize that you don't fit the gender stereotypes
as we discuss them in that's totally okay. And in fact,
(13:02):
you know, like you said, you like this might be
a good thing. And if you, you know, if you
do find yourself nodding your head, you know, when we
talk about how your gender does typically handle their money
at least in some of these studies, well, then this
episode will be eye opening. Uh As, we're gonna talk
about some important instructions as to how you can move forward,
and so we'll get to some of the specific ways
that you know, men and women might handle their money
(13:22):
a little bit differently, but then specifically what you can
do about that, and we'll get to all of that
right after this break. All right, we're back from the break.
We're asking the question today, should women and men handle
money differently? Matt? The answer to that question is gonna
(13:44):
mean now. But there there's so much information that we
came across creating this episode that we feel is important
to share, and I think it sheds a lot of
light in how men and women have historically handle their
money differently. And then I think, you know, you and
I have a way forward for all of us together
that we want to get to. There was a book,
Matt that I never read, but I remember it was
(14:05):
so popular a couple of decades ago called Men Are
from Mars, Women or from Venus, And that just sounds
like a book from a bygone era. I don't know
if it's still sold in books are, so I'm sure
you can find it like he use bookstore or something
like that. That also makes me think of like t
G I F on Friday is like going home watching
the four shows? Which one was your favorite? Hanging Mr
Cooper or boy Meath world Sabrina to the Teenage which,
(14:28):
oh yeah, that was a classic to a big fan
of that one. Um. I obviously never read by the
way men are from Mars women or from Venus. I
wasn't really because you're like ten probably came out exactly,
but you could tell by the title that the author
was highlighting gender differences. And while men and women do
have far more in common than the author probably would
like to admit who wrote that book, there are some
(14:49):
really important divergences that are worthy of our consideration. Yeah. So,
first of all, let's talk about how you get money
in the first place, and that is you earn it
right uh. And according to the Pew Research Center, women
earned of what men earned in eighteen Uh. That pay
gap is shrinking, particularly for younger workers, which is a
(15:12):
positive trend, but that is still a meaningful hurdle to overcome.
The pay gap is partly due to to work history,
you know, like having kids as great you know, but
as we mentioned with the Fidelity study earlier, taking time
off to have kiddos like it often leads to fewer
job offers and worse income prospects. Not to mention that
the years of not generating in any income, which often
(15:34):
reflects years of not investing in a workplace retirement account,
in particular if there's a match there, right, And those
are some big disadvantages to overcome. Yeah, like you said
at the beginning, Matt, that stat also reflects some structural
issues when it comes to male and female pay. But
here's another thing to Matt. When we're talking about pay,
women are actually often averse to asking for more money
(15:56):
than their male counterparts. There was a survey from ron
Stop last year. They found that sixty percent of women
have never negotiated with an employer over pay. Women are
also more likely to stay at a lower wage job
to according to the personal finance website The Balance. And
that's not good, right, because even just a small bump
in pay with a new employer or in a job
(16:17):
that you've been in for years, can have just a
massive impact on your ability to earn more throughout the
years and then also save more for retirement. So I
think of all of the things in this episode where
we see maybe you know women as a sex falling
short it is in the ability to ask for more
knowing what they're worth. Yeah. Again, this is another instance
(16:37):
where you might be listening and you're thinking, I've never
had a problem negotiating a race, right, Like I've never
had a problem asking for more money. And so again
it's important to keep in mind that though the research
shows us, like we know anecdotally that this doesn't apply
to everyone. I'm specifically thinking of two. We had a
conversation with Kirsten and Julian Saunders, the couple behind Rich
and Regular. Uh. That was episode eighties X, and Julian
(17:01):
was just bragging about how great Kirston is at negotiating,
Like evidently she's just like the Queen of negotiating more pay. Uh.
So if you have to listen to that episode, go
back and listen to that one. Is it regardless of
your gender, earning more, It's just so important, right, and
all of us could stand to up our abilities on
that front. Uh. And We've had lots of different conversations
(17:22):
on the show that specifically cover, you know, not just
stories of individuals negotiating, but just how to go about
doing that. I'm thinking of Remiet Sadie, And that was
back in the episode one ten and he outlined a
great process, a great method. Uh, you know when it
comes to wanting to up your salary, you know, like
what steps you need to take in order to negotiate
a solid raise. Yeah, I'm thinking to you, Matt. When
we had far New Sharabi on the show. She is
(17:45):
just awesome personal finance expert. Um. And at the same time,
she is someone who has made a killing as a
small business owner. She knows her worth, she knows how
to negotiate. Yes, So, like you said, there are many
women out there who are crushing it, who don't have
a problem in asking for what they're worth, who don't
have a problem asking for a raise. Um, it's just
when you read those statistics, there are obviously a number
(18:07):
of women who do, though, and I want to see
that number changed for the benefit of women as a whole. Right,
let's talk about spending. To do women spend more? That's
an interesting question. My wife, personally, Matt hates to shop.
I feel like she just defies the stereotypes. And I actually,
I don't know. I don't mind shopping a little bit more.
Rolls are a little bit reversed. Yeah, exactly. But there
(18:29):
was a study by the Wharton School of Business that
found that women are more likely to view shopping as
a recreational activity. My mom definitely fits that bill. But
most men want to leave the store with their purchases
quickly as possible. But even though women enjoy shopping more,
it turns out men still spend more than women in
a typical year. So while men might not enjoy the
(18:50):
process of shopping as much, they still like shopping just
from a utilitarian standpoint. Sure, yeah, well, so that increased
spending that actually dies with the stats as well. There's
there's a survey from wallet earlier this year, and they
show that men are more likely to max out a
credit card. Women are apparently seven percent less likely than
men to have maxed out a credit card at least once.
And so while women, you know, they might enjoy the
(19:12):
shopping experience more than men do, a lot of different
stats show that women are more cost conscious, you know.
They they're more likely to shop at outlet stores, more
likely to wait till something they want is actually on sale. Uh,
they dig store brands more than men, and so you know,
when it comes to spending. This is kind of this.
This is definitely a win in this category for sure.
Uh and so I kind of see this as a
(19:32):
call two men to stop spending so much dang money,
especially on name brand items. Fan. Yeah, I feel like
I'm totally guilty of this. I totally fall into the study.
I don't like to go looking for the best deal
like I do because I know I'm spending less, but
like I'll look at maybe two or three different sites
and then I just purchase right. Whereas for you, like,
I feel like you are so good at like hunting
and making sure you're keeping your eyes on the best
(19:54):
deals out there, making sure that you're spending the least
amount of money possible. And I feel that's something that
we all need to sure that we're doing right. And so,
you know, regardless of who you are, we should all
work to just become a little more conscious and how
it is that we spend our money. Yeah, and I
gotta say, Matt's I don't care whether you're a man
or a woman, but store brands should be high up
on your list because they're gonna save a ton of
a ton of money. It's just like built in savings
(20:15):
when you go for the store brand under the name
brand equivalent, unless it's your craft beer equivalent, and you're
wanting to spend a little bit more on something because
it makes you feel nice. Yea, you just can't name
brand everything, though, I think I think sometimes that's a
tendency here, maybe that men have, uh, that men just
gravitate towards the name brand no matter what it is,
without thinking about it. And and that's where we need
to shake things up, right, we we we need to
consider store brands more frequently. Um. And also too, I
(20:38):
think we've talked about this, that the quality of store
brand items has gone up a whole lot in recent years.
Here it comes a Kirkland signature brag. There's other ones too,
man like Target has um some great uh store brands
that are better than their name brand equivalent sometimes. So yeah,
it's not just Costco, but yeah, Costco rocks too. All right,
(20:59):
Let's let's talk about saving as well. There's more good
news here. It turns out that the savings rate for
women is actually higher than their male counterparts. They save
a higher percentage of their pay uh. They spend less
of what they bring in, and much of that is
due to the more frugal tendencies that we just highlighted
when we talked about spending differences. But even though women
are saving a higher percentage of their income on average,
(21:22):
they've actually got less than of what men have in
savings accounts according to data from the Federal Reserve from
a few years ago. That is likely due to the
fact that overall, they're still making less like we discussed earlier,
which means a smaller amount of money uh saved overall. Yeah.
One of the reasons women have a higher savings rate
as well, um is that, according to a survey by
(21:43):
US Bank, women of all ages value financial security more
than men do. But here's the thing, man, that focus
on financial security can often backfire if you keep more
of your overall assets in savings and CDs instead of
invested in the stock market. Right, Like, savings for saving
for long term goals is really important, but so is
investing for the really long term. And so that's actually
(22:06):
what we're gonna talk about next. We're gonna talk about
investing right after this break, a break still tackling the
tenuous subject of men, women and money, how they handle
money differently, but then also how we can all think
(22:27):
about money in a similar way, because we're really all
in the same boat when it comes down to it.
And let's talk specifically about investing for a minute. There
was a study from black Rock that found that women
find less joy in managing their investments. I found that
interesting that that just like women care less, they're less interested,
less intrigued by investing. And honestly, I think that's okay,
(22:49):
and and interestingly enough, I think that can even pay
off for women. I think a lack of interest can
have a positive benefit. So we'll talk about that in
a second. I hope everyone listening to this podcast, regardless
of their gender, starts to gain an interest in all
things money and finds joy not just in saving their money,
but investing and growing that nest egg. But let's talk
about how a tampered down enthusiasm can actually be more
(23:11):
beneficial to your investing success in the long run. Yeah,
So you're talking about joy, right, And so this is
like where where men might have a little more enthusiasm,
a little more a little bit more joy when it
comes to managing their portfolios could actually lead to maybe
a little bit more misery the stock market in general,
and frequent trading specifically have historically been more of an
obsession for men. Kiplinger has reported that men trade stocks
(23:35):
much more frequently than women, and the more frequently UH
we trade, the worst our investments are going to perform. Uh.
Men are are getting a little too into investing by
by getting into individual stocks. You know, it's important for
us to take calculated risks like these are things that
we need to do in order to see growth when
its specifically when it comes to our portfolios. But when
you take too much risk and when you're too involved
(23:56):
in the stock market and specifically when you're not exactly
even sure what you're doing, that is going to lead
to worse performance. Yeah, we've talked about that before. Maat
the more frequently people trade, you might trigger tax consequences.
You are in all likelihood going to be paying a
fee when you're trading stocks or ETFs as well. There's
just so many things to consider, and the more movement
you make in your portfolio, in all likelihood, the worst
(24:18):
you're going to perform. Another thing too, when we're talking
about investing and how women and men respond, well, an
important thing to consider is that women live longer than men.
About five years longer on average, according to stats from
the CDC. So that means that they need to plan
to invest for a longer time horizon. That includes a
greater willingness to invest more heavily in stocks and if possible,
(24:41):
putting aside even more in retirement funds. And I know
that that's actually hard, Matt, considering that. You know, we
just talked about how women earn less on average than
man and yet they're going to live longer and they
need to save and invest more of their money. But
it's so important in particular for women to be aware
of this. I'm thinking about my the mall who's ninety
and she's having to make decisions about her financial future
(25:05):
and she might still have ten, twelve, fifteen more years
left to live, and planning for a longer lifespan means
investing early and often is just even that much more important. Exactly. Yeah,
And so regardless of your gender, having savings is great, right,
in fact, it's crucial. But remember that inflation is the
enemy of your savings account, Like, that's the real enemy here.
(25:27):
Over the past few decades, we've seen inflation right at
two and a half percent, and regularly investing more of
your income that's gonna give you important options for your future.
You're not going to be able to preserve that money
if you have it sitting in a savings account that's
not earning that inflation rate. On both ends of the
spectrum are sort of these extremes that we want to avoid.
We can't completely avoid investing, but we also don't want
to become, you know, so preoccupied by it that we
(25:49):
end up shooting ourselves in the foot because we're jumping
in and out of the market. We're trying to time
it where you know, we're dabbling in single stock investing
when we don't know what we're doing. Again, it's hard
to find that balance. But that's what we're trying to
do here on how the money. Yeah, I think in particular,
investing is a place where men and women can both
learn from each other. We can all stand to have
some enthusiasm when it comes to investing, but not too
much that causes us to go too complex with our
(26:12):
investments or too disinterested where we don't invest at all. Right,
I think there's a healthy approach to investing that both
men and women should be taking that looks pretty similar,
and I think to Matt, like knowledge breeds confidence. It
doesn't matter who you are. The more you know, the
more likely you are to make the right decisions for
your own financial good and for your financial future, and
(26:32):
especially if you're in a relationship. Right both individuals need
the confidence that more money knowledge provides. Too, smart and
savvy partners coming to the table to tackle their money
goals together is going to have a really important impact.
Trying to be the lone ranger managing your family's finances
with a completely disinterested partner is going to lead to
(26:53):
some unhealth I think in the relationship. And I don't
think it's that you both have to be just as
interested or just as committed. It's okay if you're spouse
is more fascinated by the realm of personal finance than
you are. But at the same time, I think it's
really important for both members of of that couple to
be able to sit down together and talk about money,
and both of you to have a say in where
(27:14):
that money is going. I think some of these statistics, Matt,
that you and I have been relaying in this episode
actually reflects a level of unhealthiness that has taken place
when it comes to gender differences in how we approach
personal finance. And I would love it if in our lifetime,
if in the coming decades, we start to see men
and women, both sexes, handling money better, each of them
(27:38):
having a seat at the table playing more of a
role in family finances, because I think, as we see,
there's like a balance that's needed when it comes to
gender dynamics and personal finance. Yeah, and we're looking for
balance suit not just between couples, but just even within ourselves, right,
you know, like ultimately men and women, like they don't
have as opposite of an approach as the headlines might
make it seem. Uh, it's not like one gender is
(27:59):
better than the other, you know, when it comes to
how they handle their money. Men and women, they might
have some different psychological and historical societal norms to overcome
when it comes to achieving their financial goals, but the
actual path that we, you know, take his individuals should
look more similar than dissimilar. It's important for everyone to
have the right financial education and the tools necessary so
that we're able to make the right decisions for our future.
(28:22):
When you look at the numbers, we could all do
a much better job when it comes to our personal finances.
You know, when it comes to our money, I feel
I feel like we need a sort of our renaissance
of personal finance, interest and education in our country in
order to raise the tide for everyone. And I think
we could all be doing a better job when it
comes to our money. Yeah, I think you're right, man.
I think ultimately the answer to the question should men
(28:43):
and women handle money differently, I think the answer is no.
We should all be working to earn more money and
know it or worth. When it comes to our jobs.
We should all be looking to spend more cautiously with
the money that we have. We shall be saving more diligently,
and we should actually be investing and get interested enough
in it to do it well, uh, and to do
it consistently, but not so interested. They were like Yosemite, Sam,
(29:05):
when it comes to you pulling the trigger on you know,
random investment sales and stuff like that. But hopefully this
episode provided some perspective when it comes to maybe some
of the tendencies that you experience in your own life
with how you handle money and some of the ways
to to move forward in a positive way. Most definitely, man,
all right, let's shift gears. Let's get back to the
beer that we enjoyed on this episode. This one was
called on Cassette and this is a beer by a
(29:27):
new anthem and they are out of Wilmington's, North Carolina.
What were your thoughts on this beer? Dude? Man? This
was a delicious I p A. A little velvety some
night like peach fuzz actually going on. And I was
like soft in my mouth like that. I get that
it was slightly sweet, but it also had enough hot
bitterness that I just really appreciated. I think a lot
of the new I p s can be overly sweet,
(29:48):
but this one still retained some bitter hot character that
I really like having in a beer. But it offered
that inside the package of something that was more juicy
and sweet. And so yeah, I like the combo going
onto the time. Yeah, that's right. So this was a
double I p A. And you know, it's it's not
like this is a bitter, like a West Coast bitter
I p A, you know, And so like for that reason,
I like, I like to describe it less as bitter
(30:10):
and more as like sharp, you know. And so I
feel like the hot flavors are really sharp and pungent.
It was like so pungent, like it's almost smoky, like
the because of the hot presence that was there. I've
mentioned this previously on the show before, but like it
truly does remind me of like that pungency that you
get with like a blue cheese, where you put it
in your mouth and you feel like it's kind of
fuming a little bit, Like you can kind of feel
(30:31):
it in your sinuses a little bit. And I feel
that's one of the characteristics of these New England I
p a s U I can. I feel like I
got hops in my sinuses, which is would also probably
be a pretty good name of a beer. Somebody will
probably do it at some point. But but yeah, man,
I really enjoyed this one. Glad you and I got
to shared on the episode. Uh and yeah, New Anthem
they're just always making some really good beers up there.
(30:52):
And I realized too, this is the actual first New
Anthem beer I think that we've had on the show.
I looked in our little beer catalog expecting to see
maybe this one, making sure that we hadn't had it before,
and I didn't see that we have had a single
New Anthem beer, which is really confusing, Like maybe we've
had a collaboration before with them. I don't know. I
think a listeners send us a beer from North Carolina
one time and it was a collaboration beer and I
think New Anthem was the other brewer in that or
(31:14):
like they showed up and helped out Yeah, yeah, putting
it out. It's been a minute though, so I don't remember.
But but yeah, it was a good beer. Glad we
find we got to have a legit New Anthem beer
on the show. Um, and that's gonna do it for
this episode, Matt. So, for our listeners who want the
show notes for this episode, some of the links to
some of the studies that we mentioned, you can go
to our website at how to money dot com. Yeah,
that's right up there on the website. We have a
(31:34):
lot of different resources and also on the website if
you go to how do money dot com, forward slash
do better. If you want to leave us some feedback,
if you have some thoughts to share in particular on
a topic like we discussed today, If you have whether
it's a personal story or or an anecdote, or just
anything else you would like to put in front of us,
We would love to hear from you. We're always interested
(31:55):
in hearing what our listeners have to say. Just drop
us a line and then again that you r L
is how do money dot com Ford slash do better? Alright, buddy,
let's gonna do it for this episode until next time.
Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Matt and today we're asking the question should women and
men handle money differently? Oh dude, I can't believe we
(00:27):
actually went through with this topic. I'd like to ask
questions that could potentially get me in trouble that we're
actually going to do an episode on this, But we
you know, after discussion, you and I thought that there,
you know, there were definitely some insights that we can
glean from talking about how it is that men and
women might be handling their money differently. And then there's
just so many studies to that inform us about how
(00:48):
men and women have handled money differently in the past.
But I think, too, um, there's a way forward after
we see that that information, and I think, yeah, you
and I are gonna have some some good advice, hopefully
to share for men and women based on the stats
that we've seen and the studies that are out there.
And we're gonna also do our very best to not
completely step in it, because that's what I feel like
right now, is that we're about to step in it. Well,
(01:09):
I promise we're not going to come at this from
like a madman perspective. Okay, even though we do like
a nice beverage during our work day as well. Before
we get into that, though, you want to talk about
this fence issue that you've got going on and my
hyping it up. Maybe it's not an issue. Actually, well
it remains we seen whether it's an issue or not yet.
So at one of my rental properties, um my my
next door neighbor who actually have never met I we
(01:31):
used to live in that home. My next door neighbor
rent out his home and and so even when we
lived in that house, I never met him, but he
left a note on the door saying, hey, please call me.
I want to talk about some stuff. My tenant really
that on over to me, and it turns out he
wants to replace the fence that goes in between both
of our yards. And I will say, the fence not
(01:51):
attractive and in sections it actually, uh looks pretty rough.
It's a chain link fence that's just yeah, has not
held up well over the years. But chain link fenstance
have definitely fallen out of favor. I mean, I'm not
gonna lie. They're pretty hideous, Like we've got one on
the back back side of I mean from a utility standpoint,
they're pretty great. I mean it's like they will probably
be there for another hundred years if you let it.
(02:13):
You know, well, this one definitely will not really know,
it's already kind of fallen apart in some spots, and
so yeah, he wants to to replace it together. And
so we're in the midst of getting a quote to
kind of see how much it costs and if it's inexpensive.
UM willing to jump in on this especially. It's just
like it's I feel like it's the right neighborly thing
to do. But I will say too, man, if the
quote comes back and it's too high, I'm not going
to be down for it because it is something that's
(02:34):
just not a high priority on my list. I've never
had a tenant complain about the fact that the fence
isn't in perfect shape. And so yeah, it's kind of
one of those like TBD as to whether or not, UM,
you know, willing to go half and half on this fence,
But my gut is telling me probably not. I don't know.
Is that frugal or cheap of me? Ah? Man, This
is such a hard one because so on one hand,
(02:56):
with it being a rental. Like, in my mind, that's
one of the benefits, you know, of having a backyard
here in the city is the ability to have a pet.
And so for runners thinking, hey, I've got a pet,
I would like for them to be able to run
in the backyard. To me, like, that's a selling point
to having, you know, having a fenced in kind of
closed in backyard. Well, and they do actually, so interestingly enough,
this fence is kind of up slightly raised on a hill,
and and so many of my tenants have had animals.
(03:18):
None of those animals have ever gotten out through the fence.
So it's it's still does this job, okay, animals and
still climb hills though, right, no they can, but it's
just it's it's not possible really to get through or
over the fence, even with like the disrepair that it
might be in. So I mean, okay, So the reason
I say that because we found ourselves in a similar
situation years ago at our old house. Before we moved out,
(03:39):
we knew that we were going to keep that house
as a rental, and the fence between us and our
neighbor was in complete disrepair. I mean it was like
literally there are sections of it that had fallen over.
It was an old wooden fence. It had completely rotted
out over decades of being exposed to the elements, right,
And so in my mind, I was like, you know what,
I'm willing to pay because in this case, this is
going to be a selling point I guess for future pendants.
(04:00):
But yeah, I mean the fact is is it sounds
like the fence that you've got there currently it still works, uh,
And so I would have a tough time agreeing to
replacing something that still is kind of getting the job done. Um.
And honestly, dude, from a personal standpoint too, like I
know that's like, if any of my neighbors here like
next to us wanted to kind of go in on
a fence, I'm not sure if I would say yes,
because I partly feel that fences are a little overrated.
(04:23):
Sounds specifically thinking of our next door neighbors. They don't
have any pets. We don't have any pets. Uh, They've got,
you know, a couple of young kids. And if that
fence were to fall over or start to rot and
we wanted to get rid of it, like I would
be totally okay if it was just one big open backyard,
Like I wouldn't even mind if their kids kind of,
you know, played in our back yard a little bit.
And so I feel like this is like one of
those expenses that it's found its way into our culture
(04:44):
and it's like, oh, you've got to have a fence,
or if there was in every yard, or if there
was the fence there, you have to replace it, right
Whereas I want to ask the question of like, well
do you actually need to replace it, like is that
something that that you could do without, because it's not
like I gain a lot of joy from the back
that there's a fence between us. And so I think
in my mind it kind of depends if it's Yeah,
if it's an investment, property or rental, I would lean
(05:06):
more towards making sure that there is a functional structure
there between homes. But if it's me personally, as long
as they don't have a dog, like I don't want
a dog running over pooping in the yard, that would suck.
But otherwise fences might be overrated. All right, I think
I'm with you, And yeah, well I'll wait and see
what the what the quote comes back out, Yeah, if
it's a pretty low estimate. If it's reasonable, then I
(05:27):
might um jump in on this, But my natural tendency
is to say, now, the kind of crumby fence is
mostly doing its job, still gets it done, so let's
just leave good enough alone. I actually still want to
see how that fence is falling apart, because in my mind,
channeling fences, they don't fall apart like I mean, they're
made a metal. All right, I'll show you some pictures. Yeah,
all right, let's not mentioned the beer that we're having
(05:49):
on the show today. This one's called on Cassette. It's
my new Anthem. This is a brewery out of North Carolina.
They make excellent beer. So looking forward to sharing this
one on this episode with you today, Matt. But let's
get onto the subject at hand. We're asking the questions
should women and men handle money differently? And Matt, I
think part of the reason that we decided to tackle
this kind of sensitive topic this week is because Valentine's
(06:11):
Day is coming up this weekend. We figured we'd create
an episode that discusses the differences between how men and
women handle money. There will, of course be some generalizations
in this episode. We want to get that out of
the way upfront. Many women buck the trend and handle
their money very differently than how studies show, And we're
gonna be quoting a lot of studies in this episode
Brace Yourself, Yeah, and vice versa two. Right, there's a
(06:34):
lot of men who handle money a whole lot different
than studies show as well. I think there's a general
belief that men shoot from the hip when it comes
to money, and some of the surveys bear that out.
But that's obviously not the case for all dudes either.
But I think there are things that we can learn
from the data about the tendencies of each sex and
their views and actions in the realm of personal finance. Matt,
(06:56):
we want to have an open combo today essentially about
the pros and cons of how men and women stereotypically
handle money, so that we can find some common ground
and then all start to make better financial decisions based
on the information that's set in front of us. Yeah,
that's right. And and you know you mentioned the research,
and I'm glad you did, because I mean, that is
what we're gonna be looking at. We're gonna be looking
at surveys, reports, research, um. And even though these studies
(07:19):
are focusing on individuals tweets, maybe some tweets, maybe no tweets. Uh, Like,
I wanted to mention that we're we're not necessarily downplaying
the fact that there are like structural issues within like
our society and within employers, right like specific companies that
lead to some of these some of these differences between
how men and women are treated or how they handle
(07:41):
their money. Right, Like, there are certainly changes that need
to be made in different steps that companies and you know,
our society as a whole need to take to make
sure there is more parity. But I mean, this is
how the money and so what we talked about, or
like personal changes we can make in our own lives.
We're not necessarily looking at policy. We're not looking at
some some of these larger issues that are a part
of the equation. Yeah, but it is important to acknowledge
(08:02):
that they exist and say that's, you know, part of
the deal here. We are gonna and some of the
stats that we're going to convey in this episode are
in part related to some of the structural problems that
exist in our society. Yeah, man, you know, it's also
important to note that COVID man it has had an
even greater impact on women than it has on men. Uh.
You know, we talked about the swords the end of
(08:23):
last year, but an overwhelming number of women have left
the workplace since spring of last year, in large part
due to the child care needs of their families. Women
are leaving their jobs at a rate four times the
rate of men, which is crazy. And a recent Fidelity
study found that thirty nine percent of women who haven't
you know, made a change yet are considering a change
(08:44):
to their work situation, you know, either leaving their job
or you know, maybe reducing hours due to COVID. And
the same study estimates that taking a short career hiatus
could cost upwards of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
in future wealth. Yeah, and so it's just some wanting
to note that these decisions have implications beyond just money.
Uh you know, but it's you know, worth noting that
(09:05):
many women find themselves in an even more precarious financial
position right now. Yeah, man, I think too. As we'll
see in this episode. Part of the problem isn't that
women are worse with money than men. That is, I
think sometimes there prevailing narrative, but that's not actually true,
and I think actually, when we dig into it, we'll
find in many of the scenarios we're gonna talk about,
women actually have a better concept of how to handle
(09:27):
their money, and they actually handle money better in practice too. Yeah,
they do a better job. Yeah, ultimately that that's that's
certainly part of the takeaway today. And but one of
the issues that women do struggle with more than men
is the level of confidence that they have when making
money decisions. There was a study of small business owners
from the University of Cambridge, and they found that fewer
women admitted to their business prospering compared to their male counterparts,
(09:51):
even though their businesses were experiencing a greater level of profitability.
So women their businesses were doing better, doing great, but
they just couldn't admit it. They couldn't they didn't have
the confidence to say that that was the case. And
maybe some of it was, um the the opposite, a
little too much bravado in the case of the mails
in that survey, right. But I think one of the
(10:12):
things that we want to talk about today on this
show is you know, you and I both want to
see men and women exude confidence in their money choices,
and confidence is tied to knowing what you're doing. You
can be confident when you know how the game is
played and you know the next steps to take, which
is Matt just such a big part of the reason
you and I started How to Money. So we want
people to have confidence to make the right moves with
(10:34):
their money. And I feel like the feedback we get
from so many of our listeners is that that's the
impact that the show has had. People who didn't otherwise
know what to do. They now have a playbook and
that breeds confidence. Um, and that allows them to go
out there and start kicking but with their personal finances, absolutely, dude. Yeah,
and and and so one of the reasons too that
we're talking about this today, uh, and why we feel
(10:56):
this is so important is that hopefully this gives us
maybe a little bit of insight into the inner workings
of our spouse or our partner, you know, a little
window into how their brain functions. I think that better
understanding of why our significant other thinks the way they
do about money can be helpful in future money discussions
and decisions. And plus two, you know, hopefully it has
(11:16):
further reaching implications as well. You know, the more known
and understood someone feels like that's gonna lead to them
feeling more cared for, more loved, which is only going
to result in a stronger relationship. Yeah, knowing our partner's
tendencies is super helpful in how we approach them with
discussions in particular about money. Maybe we'll be less combative
when we're bringing up the topic in general because we
(11:38):
better understand, like where they're coming from. Also, Matt, I
think knowing the money tendencies that each sex is prone
to it can actually help us teach our kids to
handle their money better versus using outdated methods of instruction
that may be led to some of the disparities that
we see in financial outcomes for men and women. Currently,
families look different in one than they looked thirty years
(11:58):
ago or even just a decade. Stats show that we're
seeing far more stay at home dads and more women
bringing home the bacon. And that's awesome. So let's make
sure that our sons and daughters received the identical lessons
when it comes to money. And I think, Matt, sometimes
in the past, um that that wasn't the case that
young girls and young boys were taught differently about how
to think about money and personal finances. And I think
(12:20):
in today's day and age, they need the same lessons
because they're both just as likely to go out in
the workforce, they're both just as likely to own their
own business, to be saving for things for the future,
and to be investing for their retirement, and so they
need all of the same personal finance knowledge poured into
their lives as youngsters. Yeah, I mean, the reason that
they're just as likely as also too, because they're just
(12:41):
as capable, right, and so you know, another I guess
reason too that we feel this is important is because
we you know, we hope that listeners will be able
to handle their money better by being able to recognize
certain patterns and tendencies, you know, regardless of their gender. Uh,
you might realize that you don't fit the gender stereotypes
as we discuss them in that's totally okay. And in fact,
(13:02):
you know, like you said, you like this might be
a good thing. And if you, you know, if you
do find yourself nodding your head, you know, when we
talk about how your gender does typically handle their money
at least in some of these studies, well, then this
episode will be eye opening. Uh As, we're gonna talk
about some important instructions as to how you can move forward,
and so we'll get to some of the specific ways
that you know, men and women might handle their money
(13:22):
a little bit differently, but then specifically what you can
do about that, and we'll get to all of that
right after this break. All right, we're back from the break.
We're asking the question today, should women and men handle
money differently? Matt? The answer to that question is gonna
(13:44):
mean now. But there there's so much information that we
came across creating this episode that we feel is important
to share, and I think it sheds a lot of
light in how men and women have historically handle their
money differently. And then I think, you know, you and
I have a way forward for all of us together
that we want to get to. There was a book,
Matt that I never read, but I remember it was
(14:05):
so popular a couple of decades ago called Men Are
from Mars, Women or from Venus, And that just sounds
like a book from a bygone era. I don't know
if it's still sold in books are, so I'm sure
you can find it like he use bookstore or something
like that. That also makes me think of like t
G I F on Friday is like going home watching
the four shows? Which one was your favorite? Hanging Mr
Cooper or boy Meath world Sabrina to the Teenage which,
(14:28):
oh yeah, that was a classic to a big fan
of that one. Um. I obviously never read by the
way men are from Mars women or from Venus. I
wasn't really because you're like ten probably came out exactly,
but you could tell by the title that the author
was highlighting gender differences. And while men and women do
have far more in common than the author probably would
like to admit who wrote that book, there are some
(14:49):
really important divergences that are worthy of our consideration. Yeah. So,
first of all, let's talk about how you get money
in the first place, and that is you earn it
right uh. And according to the Pew Research Center, women
earned of what men earned in eighteen Uh. That pay
gap is shrinking, particularly for younger workers, which is a
(15:12):
positive trend, but that is still a meaningful hurdle to overcome.
The pay gap is partly due to to work history,
you know, like having kids as great you know, but
as we mentioned with the Fidelity study earlier, taking time
off to have kiddos like it often leads to fewer
job offers and worse income prospects. Not to mention that
the years of not generating in any income, which often
(15:34):
reflects years of not investing in a workplace retirement account,
in particular if there's a match there, right, And those
are some big disadvantages to overcome. Yeah, like you said
at the beginning, Matt, that stat also reflects some structural
issues when it comes to male and female pay. But
here's another thing to Matt. When we're talking about pay,
women are actually often averse to asking for more money
(15:56):
than their male counterparts. There was a survey from ron
Stop last year. They found that sixty percent of women
have never negotiated with an employer over pay. Women are
also more likely to stay at a lower wage job
to according to the personal finance website The Balance. And
that's not good, right, because even just a small bump
in pay with a new employer or in a job
(16:17):
that you've been in for years, can have just a
massive impact on your ability to earn more throughout the
years and then also save more for retirement. So I
think of all of the things in this episode where
we see maybe you know women as a sex falling
short it is in the ability to ask for more
knowing what they're worth. Yeah. Again, this is another instance
(16:37):
where you might be listening and you're thinking, I've never
had a problem negotiating a race, right, Like I've never
had a problem asking for more money. And so again
it's important to keep in mind that though the research
shows us, like we know anecdotally that this doesn't apply
to everyone. I'm specifically thinking of two. We had a
conversation with Kirsten and Julian Saunders, the couple behind Rich
and Regular. Uh. That was episode eighties X, and Julian
(17:01):
was just bragging about how great Kirston is at negotiating,
Like evidently she's just like the Queen of negotiating more pay. Uh.
So if you have to listen to that episode, go
back and listen to that one. Is it regardless of
your gender, earning more, It's just so important, right, and
all of us could stand to up our abilities on
that front. Uh. And We've had lots of different conversations
(17:22):
on the show that specifically cover, you know, not just
stories of individuals negotiating, but just how to go about
doing that. I'm thinking of Remiet Sadie, And that was
back in the episode one ten and he outlined a
great process, a great method. Uh, you know when it
comes to wanting to up your salary, you know, like
what steps you need to take in order to negotiate
a solid raise. Yeah, I'm thinking to you, Matt. When
we had far New Sharabi on the show. She is
(17:45):
just awesome personal finance expert. Um. And at the same time,
she is someone who has made a killing as a
small business owner. She knows her worth, she knows how
to negotiate. Yes, So, like you said, there are many
women out there who are crushing it, who don't have
a problem in asking for what they're worth, who don't
have a problem asking for a raise. Um, it's just
when you read those statistics, there are obviously a number
(18:07):
of women who do, though, and I want to see
that number changed for the benefit of women as a whole. Right,
let's talk about spending. To do women spend more? That's
an interesting question. My wife, personally, Matt hates to shop.
I feel like she just defies the stereotypes. And I actually,
I don't know. I don't mind shopping a little bit more.
Rolls are a little bit reversed. Yeah, exactly. But there
(18:29):
was a study by the Wharton School of Business that
found that women are more likely to view shopping as
a recreational activity. My mom definitely fits that bill. But
most men want to leave the store with their purchases
quickly as possible. But even though women enjoy shopping more,
it turns out men still spend more than women in
a typical year. So while men might not enjoy the
(18:50):
process of shopping as much, they still like shopping just
from a utilitarian standpoint. Sure, yeah, well, so that increased
spending that actually dies with the stats as well. There's
there's a survey from wallet earlier this year, and they
show that men are more likely to max out a
credit card. Women are apparently seven percent less likely than
men to have maxed out a credit card at least once.
And so while women, you know, they might enjoy the
(19:12):
shopping experience more than men do, a lot of different
stats show that women are more cost conscious, you know.
They they're more likely to shop at outlet stores, more
likely to wait till something they want is actually on sale. Uh,
they dig store brands more than men, and so you know,
when it comes to spending. This is kind of this.
This is definitely a win in this category for sure.
Uh and so I kind of see this as a
(19:32):
call two men to stop spending so much dang money,
especially on name brand items. Fan. Yeah, I feel like
I'm totally guilty of this. I totally fall into the study.
I don't like to go looking for the best deal
like I do because I know I'm spending less, but
like I'll look at maybe two or three different sites
and then I just purchase right. Whereas for you, like,
I feel like you are so good at like hunting
and making sure you're keeping your eyes on the best
(19:54):
deals out there, making sure that you're spending the least
amount of money possible. And I feel that's something that
we all need to sure that we're doing right. And so,
you know, regardless of who you are, we should all
work to just become a little more conscious and how
it is that we spend our money. Yeah, and I
gotta say, Matt's I don't care whether you're a man
or a woman, but store brands should be high up
on your list because they're gonna save a ton of
a ton of money. It's just like built in savings
(20:15):
when you go for the store brand under the name
brand equivalent, unless it's your craft beer equivalent, and you're
wanting to spend a little bit more on something because
it makes you feel nice. Yea, you just can't name
brand everything, though, I think I think sometimes that's a
tendency here, maybe that men have, uh, that men just
gravitate towards the name brand no matter what it is,
without thinking about it. And and that's where we need
to shake things up, right, we we we need to
consider store brands more frequently. Um. And also too, I
(20:38):
think we've talked about this, that the quality of store
brand items has gone up a whole lot in recent years.
Here it comes a Kirkland signature brag. There's other ones too,
man like Target has um some great uh store brands
that are better than their name brand equivalent sometimes. So yeah,
it's not just Costco, but yeah, Costco rocks too. All right,
(20:59):
Let's let's talk about saving as well. There's more good
news here. It turns out that the savings rate for
women is actually higher than their male counterparts. They save
a higher percentage of their pay uh. They spend less
of what they bring in, and much of that is
due to the more frugal tendencies that we just highlighted
when we talked about spending differences. But even though women
are saving a higher percentage of their income on average,
(21:22):
they've actually got less than of what men have in
savings accounts according to data from the Federal Reserve from
a few years ago. That is likely due to the
fact that overall, they're still making less like we discussed earlier,
which means a smaller amount of money uh saved overall. Yeah.
One of the reasons women have a higher savings rate
as well, um is that, according to a survey by
(21:43):
US Bank, women of all ages value financial security more
than men do. But here's the thing, man, that focus
on financial security can often backfire if you keep more
of your overall assets in savings and CDs instead of
invested in the stock market. Right, Like, savings for saving
for long term goals is really important, but so is
investing for the really long term. And so that's actually
(22:06):
what we're gonna talk about next. We're gonna talk about
investing right after this break, a break still tackling the
tenuous subject of men, women and money, how they handle
money differently, but then also how we can all think
(22:27):
about money in a similar way, because we're really all
in the same boat when it comes down to it.
And let's talk specifically about investing for a minute. There
was a study from black Rock that found that women
find less joy in managing their investments. I found that
interesting that that just like women care less, they're less interested,
less intrigued by investing. And honestly, I think that's okay,
(22:49):
and and interestingly enough, I think that can even pay
off for women. I think a lack of interest can
have a positive benefit. So we'll talk about that in
a second. I hope everyone listening to this podcast, regardless
of their gender, starts to gain an interest in all
things money and finds joy not just in saving their money,
but investing and growing that nest egg. But let's talk
about how a tampered down enthusiasm can actually be more
(23:11):
beneficial to your investing success in the long run. Yeah,
So you're talking about joy, right, And so this is
like where where men might have a little more enthusiasm,
a little more a little bit more joy when it
comes to managing their portfolios could actually lead to maybe
a little bit more misery the stock market in general,
and frequent trading specifically have historically been more of an
obsession for men. Kiplinger has reported that men trade stocks
(23:35):
much more frequently than women, and the more frequently UH
we trade, the worst our investments are going to perform. Uh.
Men are are getting a little too into investing by
by getting into individual stocks. You know, it's important for
us to take calculated risks like these are things that
we need to do in order to see growth when
its specifically when it comes to our portfolios. But when
you take too much risk and when you're too involved
(23:56):
in the stock market and specifically when you're not exactly
even sure what you're doing, that is going to lead
to worse performance. Yeah, we've talked about that before. Maat
the more frequently people trade, you might trigger tax consequences.
You are in all likelihood going to be paying a
fee when you're trading stocks or ETFs as well. There's
just so many things to consider, and the more movement
you make in your portfolio, in all likelihood, the worst
(24:18):
you're going to perform. Another thing too, when we're talking
about investing and how women and men respond, well, an
important thing to consider is that women live longer than men.
About five years longer on average, according to stats from
the CDC. So that means that they need to plan
to invest for a longer time horizon. That includes a
greater willingness to invest more heavily in stocks and if possible,
(24:41):
putting aside even more in retirement funds. And I know
that that's actually hard, Matt, considering that. You know, we
just talked about how women earn less on average than
man and yet they're going to live longer and they
need to save and invest more of their money. But
it's so important in particular for women to be aware
of this. I'm thinking about my the mall who's ninety
and she's having to make decisions about her financial future
(25:05):
and she might still have ten, twelve, fifteen more years
left to live, and planning for a longer lifespan means
investing early and often is just even that much more important. Exactly. Yeah,
And so regardless of your gender, having savings is great, right,
in fact, it's crucial. But remember that inflation is the
enemy of your savings account, Like, that's the real enemy here.
(25:27):
Over the past few decades, we've seen inflation right at
two and a half percent, and regularly investing more of
your income that's gonna give you important options for your future.
You're not going to be able to preserve that money
if you have it sitting in a savings account that's
not earning that inflation rate. On both ends of the
spectrum are sort of these extremes that we want to avoid.
We can't completely avoid investing, but we also don't want
to become, you know, so preoccupied by it that we
(25:49):
end up shooting ourselves in the foot because we're jumping
in and out of the market. We're trying to time
it where you know, we're dabbling in single stock investing
when we don't know what we're doing. Again, it's hard
to find that balance. But that's what we're trying to
do here on how the money. Yeah, I think in particular,
investing is a place where men and women can both
learn from each other. We can all stand to have
some enthusiasm when it comes to investing, but not too
much that causes us to go too complex with our
(26:12):
investments or too disinterested where we don't invest at all. Right,
I think there's a healthy approach to investing that both
men and women should be taking that looks pretty similar,
and I think to Matt, like knowledge breeds confidence. It
doesn't matter who you are. The more you know, the
more likely you are to make the right decisions for
your own financial good and for your financial future, and
(26:32):
especially if you're in a relationship. Right both individuals need
the confidence that more money knowledge provides. Too, smart and
savvy partners coming to the table to tackle their money
goals together is going to have a really important impact.
Trying to be the lone ranger managing your family's finances
with a completely disinterested partner is going to lead to
(26:53):
some unhealth I think in the relationship. And I don't
think it's that you both have to be just as
interested or just as committed. It's okay if you're spouse
is more fascinated by the realm of personal finance than
you are. But at the same time, I think it's
really important for both members of of that couple to
be able to sit down together and talk about money,
and both of you to have a say in where
(27:14):
that money is going. I think some of these statistics, Matt,
that you and I have been relaying in this episode
actually reflects a level of unhealthiness that has taken place
when it comes to gender differences in how we approach
personal finance. And I would love it if in our lifetime,
if in the coming decades, we start to see men
and women, both sexes, handling money better, each of them
(27:38):
having a seat at the table playing more of a
role in family finances, because I think, as we see,
there's like a balance that's needed when it comes to
gender dynamics and personal finance. Yeah, and we're looking for
balance suit not just between couples, but just even within ourselves, right,
you know, like ultimately men and women, like they don't
have as opposite of an approach as the headlines might
make it seem. Uh, it's not like one gender is
(27:59):
better than the other, you know, when it comes to
how they handle their money. Men and women, they might
have some different psychological and historical societal norms to overcome
when it comes to achieving their financial goals, but the
actual path that we, you know, take his individuals should
look more similar than dissimilar. It's important for everyone to
have the right financial education and the tools necessary so
that we're able to make the right decisions for our future.
(28:22):
When you look at the numbers, we could all do
a much better job when it comes to our personal finances.
You know, when it comes to our money, I feel
I feel like we need a sort of our renaissance
of personal finance, interest and education in our country in
order to raise the tide for everyone. And I think
we could all be doing a better job when it
comes to our money. Yeah, I think you're right, man.
I think ultimately the answer to the question should men
(28:43):
and women handle money differently, I think the answer is no.
We should all be working to earn more money and
know it or worth. When it comes to our jobs.
We should all be looking to spend more cautiously with
the money that we have. We shall be saving more diligently,
and we should actually be investing and get interested enough
in it to do it well, uh, and to do
it consistently, but not so interested. They were like Yosemite, Sam,
(29:05):
when it comes to you pulling the trigger on you know,
random investment sales and stuff like that. But hopefully this
episode provided some perspective when it comes to maybe some
of the tendencies that you experience in your own life
with how you handle money and some of the ways
to to move forward in a positive way. Most definitely, man,
all right, let's shift gears. Let's get back to the
beer that we enjoyed on this episode. This one was
called on Cassette and this is a beer by a
(29:27):
new anthem and they are out of Wilmington's, North Carolina.
What were your thoughts on this beer? Dude? Man? This
was a delicious I p A. A little velvety some
night like peach fuzz actually going on. And I was
like soft in my mouth like that. I get that
it was slightly sweet, but it also had enough hot
bitterness that I just really appreciated. I think a lot
of the new I p s can be overly sweet,
(29:48):
but this one still retained some bitter hot character that
I really like having in a beer. But it offered
that inside the package of something that was more juicy
and sweet. And so yeah, I like the combo going
onto the time. Yeah, that's right. So this was a
double I p A. And you know, it's it's not
like this is a bitter, like a West Coast bitter
I p A, you know, And so like for that reason,
I like, I like to describe it less as bitter
(30:10):
and more as like sharp, you know. And so I
feel like the hot flavors are really sharp and pungent.
It was like so pungent, like it's almost smoky, like
the because of the hot presence that was there. I've
mentioned this previously on the show before, but like it
truly does remind me of like that pungency that you
get with like a blue cheese, where you put it
in your mouth and you feel like it's kind of
fuming a little bit, Like you can kind of feel
(30:31):
it in your sinuses a little bit. And I feel
that's one of the characteristics of these New England I
p a s U I can. I feel like I
got hops in my sinuses, which is would also probably
be a pretty good name of a beer. Somebody will
probably do it at some point. But but yeah, man,
I really enjoyed this one. Glad you and I got
to shared on the episode. Uh and yeah, New Anthem
they're just always making some really good beers up there.
(30:52):
And I realized too, this is the actual first New
Anthem beer I think that we've had on the show.
I looked in our little beer catalog expecting to see
maybe this one, making sure that we hadn't had it before,
and I didn't see that we have had a single
New Anthem beer, which is really confusing, Like maybe we've
had a collaboration before with them. I don't know. I
think a listeners send us a beer from North Carolina
one time and it was a collaboration beer and I
think New Anthem was the other brewer in that or
(31:14):
like they showed up and helped out Yeah, yeah, putting
it out. It's been a minute though, so I don't remember.
But but yeah, it was a good beer. Glad we
find we got to have a legit New Anthem beer
on the show. Um, and that's gonna do it for
this episode, Matt. So, for our listeners who want the
show notes for this episode, some of the links to
some of the studies that we mentioned, you can go
to our website at how to money dot com. Yeah,
that's right up there on the website. We have a
(31:34):
lot of different resources and also on the website if
you go to how do money dot com, forward slash
do better. If you want to leave us some feedback,
if you have some thoughts to share in particular on
a topic like we discussed today, If you have whether
it's a personal story or or an anecdote, or just
anything else you would like to put in front of us,
We would love to hear from you. We're always interested
(31:55):
in hearing what our listeners have to say. Just drop
us a line and then again that you r L
is how do money dot com Ford slash do better? Alright, buddy,
let's gonna do it for this episode until next time.
Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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