Who Wants to *Literally* Be a Millionaire? (Bestie Ep) #1080 - How to Money

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
and today we're asking the question who wants to be
a Millionaire?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
So I just tried to do my best game show
host voice? Did it? Show didn't come through you? The
next Drew carry Oh? Oh am, I is that the
price is right? That's right? So I was first thinking
about He also hosted whose line is it? Anyway? O? Yeah?
Did you? And before him somebody else? I forgot he
used to be the old host. Wasn't there somebody else
barker on prices? No, I'm thinking of the improv. Oh okay,

(00:47):
did you watch a lot of game shows growing up?
I know you did the Prices right? You talked about
how I used to watch it with your grandma.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
A right, I watched some. I definitely. I mean, Who
Wants to Be a Millionaire?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was classic?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, that was a cultural moment, and I'm not sure
if people a whole lot younger than us to remember
it because the show came out in what like ninety nine,
late nineties, early two thousand, but for a few years,
like millions of people, oh yeah, like tens of millions
of people probably were tuned into Regis Philbin hosting Who
Wants to Be a Millionaire?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Every what?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I don't know, a couple nights a week. They they
even made it, and like, was.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
That the last great American game show where everybody was
watching before the networks? Because after that, I think it
was all network based and everybody created their own game
shows and things split off from there. But it kind
of felt like when folks would sit down and I'll
watch the same news programs together. This is like a
last game show where folks did that. But yeah, I
never never really got into it. I love game shows,

(01:36):
so I really do. I think they're fine. And so
Top Chef is that technically a game show? Yeah, I
think they're competing. It's like that kind Tom Kalikio, Gail Simmons,
Hugh Ash isn't like all those judges, those are those
are my people? Okay I used to. I probably watched
more seasons of Top Chef than any other program other
than maybe The Office.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, scrubs. The whole point of this show, by the way,
is not to wear monochromatic suits and ties. We just
feel it needs to do. Uh he rests in peace.
But it really is to talk about, like if you
want to become a millionaire, Like how do you get there?
But also like is that a good goal to have?
And there are different, uh inputs that we see all
the time in financial media about how much we're supposed

(02:15):
to be saving and investing for the future, and I
think so right, it can be off putting and downright demoralizing.
So how much do you actually need or of kind
of give a framework for that in regards to how
much you should be looking to garner in a nest
egg for retirement. That's that's kind of what this episode
is all about.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Did you ever listen? Okay, one last question, one last reference.
I need a phone a friend. No, I was gonna
the Bare Naked Ladies if I had a million dollars.
Do you remember that song I did back? Yeah, they're
more known for one week one week.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
The nineties music still still rocks men still pretty good. Yeah,
But Matt, real quick before we get to the kind
of millionaire discussion that we want to have the actual
meat Yeah, episode just I wanted to quickly mention that
listener Silas actually created a an Excel spreadshee, So we
had another listener actually create a spreadsheet for the beers
that we've had on the show that will also put

(03:06):
in the show notes. But Silas he just made a
new Excel spreadsheet about literally all the How To Money
episodes and he's categorized them so that you can easily
find if you're like looking for an episode on transportation
or cars or on investing or saving or whatever, you
can just kind of look through there and filter there
and see which episodes fall under that category. So big

(03:26):
thanks to Silas for making that, and hopefully it should
help listeners who are trying to either find a past
episode they found maybe helpful, or who are new to
How the Money and they're kind of trying to figure out, like, well, okay,
but I need help with this, where do I go
to get the Because we have like a ridiculous catalog
at this point of what's six hundred and fifty plus episodes,
it can be hard to sort through, So big thanks
to Silas for making that a little bit easier for

(03:47):
a lot of folks out there.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
That's right, And maybe one of these days we'll have
an ultimate spreadsheet that combines Beer and the Money topics
by category and buy ABV waight and.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Style of beer and by how long your hair was
time of recording too.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Let's quickly introduce the beer that you and I are
going to enjoy during this episode. This was a double clutch.
This is a nitro oatmeal stout. This one is by
Gruner Brothers Brewing again sent to us by Katie so Silas,
thank you and Katie thank you. Yeah, this episode could
not have happened without the help of both of y'all.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yes, thank you so much. All right, but let's get
into it. Matt, who wants to be a millionaire? And
when we're contemplating this topic, it made me think for
some reason, of Sherlock Holmes, who is a literary character
of high esteem. We've all heard of this guy. Part
of him, Yeah, most death. He saws mysteries, and I
feel like the I still remember in the hospital. I
think we were having our first child. Emily and I

(04:40):
watched the Benedict Cumberbat Sherlock Holmes series, which was really
really good. That was like what, yeah, like while Emily
was in labor. It was like pre labor, like getting ready.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I don't think she now she hates Benedett, right, I
can't watch any of his movies exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Sorry, Minutedict I'm sure you're a nice guy.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
The cool thing though about like Sherlock Holmes is that
he uses inductive reasons to solve his cases. He begins
with observations which propel him in the search for the truth,
and so deductive reasoning, on the other hand, begins with
a hypothesis and then uses facts that you accumulate along
the way in order to confirm a theory. But when
we're talking about how much we need in retirement and

(05:16):
if a million dollars is actually going to be enough,
you and I would say that the Holmes the end
approach is most helpful. Taking that Sherlock Holmes approach and
do some observing and then start asking some questions based
on what you can observe, and hopefully this endeavor helps
you gain a better understanding of what your goal should
be and how they're going to influence your actions. Now
I think it's starting from that randomly concocted end goal. Actually,

(05:41):
it does this a disservice really, when we're trying to
figure out what we should be saving for retirement.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's true. Yeah, And by the way, were you a
fan of the Robert Downing junior version of Oh yeah,
you put out that she Shirlock. Now, that was a great
one like that one, because I feel like it was
way more action based, as you know, he's like jumping
out of buildings into the rivers and canals or whatever.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Guy Ritchie, that was like probably the last great thing
he did, right, I forgot.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, that's why I like that one man. He made
so many good films earlier on the string of hits. Yeah.
But so basically, when it comes to investing, if you
haven't started investing yet, you might be seeing some headlines
out there right that say that you need to have
a ton of money set aside in order to quit
your job in order to actually retire someday. A recent
article from Fortune magazine, they basically said that the quote
unquote experts that they don't believe that a million dollars

(06:25):
is enough that you actually need to have closer to
two million. Technically one point nine million dollars set aside,
which is that's a ton. And like when you are
faced with that much like that sort of headline number,
I think it can feel defeating, right, Like, sometimes these
stories they can do more harm than good. Instead of
encouraging someone to get their act together, they actually might

(06:46):
think that they're just a total lost cause, that it's
hopeless and they're gonna maybe just end up throwing in
the towel.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, Like, if you've barely started and you see that
headline number, you just.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Say screw it by end up winning the lottery.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
What's the point, Yes, exactly. I think it does kind
of encourage that lottery mental to a certain extent.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, but you know, we're going to dispel some myths
today and we're going to explain how retiring with enough
money on hand is actually more attainable than you think.
And we're going to talk about how, you know, hitting
that one million dollar mark, which, by the way, it
actually might be more than enough, but even still, how
it isn't impossible when you have decades of time to
get there, When you've got time on your side, in particular,

(07:23):
it is very achievable.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I like how you mentioned the lottery thing, because it
is true. I think a lot of people in you
think of people who buy lottery tickets as making a
horrendous mistake. And it is true that you're very, very very.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Unlikely to win the lottery. Right.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
The odds are heavily stacked against you, and a lot
of people spend way too much money on lottery tickets,
inhibiting their ability to grow wealth. But some people in
some of the most impoverished communities, it feels like that's
their only way out is to win the lottery and
not buy investing readily because they see headlines like this,
I think, and it leads them to believe, well, there's
no way that my you know, fifty bucks a month
is actually that which which is all I can stomach

(08:00):
to invest, is actually going to get me here. Sure,
And it's completely demoralizing, and I think it does actually
lead to some of those more risky approaches to wealth
building because they just don't think this is for them,
which I get, like, yeah, it makes sense, yea.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
They're quite literally going for broke because to them that
seems like the most logical path forward as opposed to
amassing this impossibly gigantic number. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
And there might be another subset of folks, though, maybe
on the opposite end of the spectrum, who are further
along in their financial journey. You know, maybe you're listening
and you do have close to seven figures in the bank,
and maybe you're still only in your mid thirties, which
is amazing. Yeah, you've done the case. You've done a
lot of hard work.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Good for you.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, and so you're crushing it. But even some of
those folks, they might be under the impression, Matt, that
they need a whole lot more invested in order to
comfortably retire. They might have done a whole lot of
heavy lifting already, but they might say, I've still got
decades of hard work ahead of me. They might fall
victim to that one more year syndrome, which kind of
seems to never end. You keep kicking, you keep kicking

(09:02):
the can down the road. And so building wealth and
then feeling comfortable enough to slow down and enjoy some
of what you've been able to amass. That requires two
different skill sets. And so for those folks, we want
to hopefully ease your mind a little too, you know,
helping you to see that it's possible to overdo it,
and that it is possible to overplan, to oversave, to overinvest,
and to overwork, creating a different kind of financial imbalance.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
That's it. It's hard to overcome, that's true. Yeah, And
so there's a recent survey as well found that more
than seven and ten investors. They say that they need
between three and five million dollars on hand in order
to be able to retire with ease, And you know,
that's an even more daunting task than just saving up
a cool mill. But so much of these responses are
based on feelings, they're not actually based on facts, and

(09:47):
personal finances are so individual, they're so complex that it
is hard to come up with us just a simple
formula to help everyone out there to know exactly, you know,
what they need to save in order to retire comfortably.
But we want to do our best to give you
some guide posts so that you better understand what it
is that you should be shooting for. Is it a million?
Maybe that's the right amount for some folks out there,

(10:08):
but others might really want to sock away multiple millions
of dollars. And I think others can easily do retirement
well on a six figure nest egg. It all depends
on a number of factors, and we'll be diving into
that during this episode.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, I wish there was a calculator that kind of
knew some of that future for you, Like, hey, you're
probably gonna encounter these health issues and guess what, you know,
you're probably going to live to the rifled age of
ninety one or so. If you knew some of those
things and you could plug those into a calculator, you
can more easily understand exactly how much you need to save.
But we don't have a horoscope, right or is that
a horoscope? Is that what that yeah, okay tells you

(10:41):
the future? Or yeah, what's going to happen based on yeah,
not that you're born in. I haven't had my tarot
cards read recently, and so I don't know what's going
to happen in the future. And because of that, we
have to make kind of some educated guesses, and we
have to make sure that we're sacrificing enough for our
future selves. But we're also trying to strike that balance
constantly while we're doing it right. And let's talk about

(11:02):
let's dig into a little bit of data here, Matt.
We've talked about a couple of headline numbers that some
people assume they need to have or the experts say
they need to have, and so that can actually, I think,
inhibit people's ability or desire to start saving. And he
talked about some headlines were talked about some surveys but
what are the facts, Joel, All right, let's talk about
the facts. So it might be helpful and reassuring to
look at the data about how much Americans actually have saved,

(11:24):
like what they have in their four to one k's
right now, and so the average overall balance inside of
four O one K accounts is just a hair over
one hundred thousand dollars. But then when we're talking about retirement,
those people should have more money, right than just the
average four O one K account balance. And so the
average person who is sixty five years or over has
two hundred and eighty thousand dollars in their retirement accounts.

(11:48):
This is according to Vanguard. The facts on the ground
really fly in the face of some of these numbers
that we've cited already. Like to say that you need
a million dollars to retire, or one point nine million
dollars like the experts say, or like the feeling that
those people have, say I need three to five million
in order to retire comfortably, Well, it almost feels ridiculous

(12:09):
because so many people are able to get by in retirement.
Maybe they're not taking like.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
That goes contrary to what millions of people are actually
doing right now.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
So these people have not even high six figures, right, Like,
we're talking two hundred and eighty thousand dollars on average.
That's what a lot of folks are retiring with, and
they are able to make ends meet. Maybe they're not
taking like cruises on the Danube three times a year. Maybe,
you know, maybe they're not taking private jets to Tahiti.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I mean, these are the kind of sacrifices that people
make when they don't have millions and millions of dollars
in their retirement accounts when they retire, but they're still
able to live. Many of these folks a lovely existence
on a whole lot less than a nest egg of
multimillions that a lot of people just assume they have
to have saved up.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
So, you know, it seems that there's like something of
a disconnect between the amounts that Americans have invested versus
the amounts that they think that they that they need.
And you know, we're not gonna spend much time on
happiness here, but I wonder how much of a factor
this dissonance plays in happiness and life satisfaction. You just
mentioned like the euro river boat cruises. It makes nice.

(13:13):
I've never been on one. When you look at the
list of the world's happiest countries, dude, there are about
a dozen European countries that rank higher than the US.
And I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not,
but a much higher percentage of Americans believe that they
need to have a lot more like a ton, more
than just a million dollars set aside than Europeans think.

(13:34):
It's almost as if we've set our standards too high.
It almost as if we've doomed ourselves to failure. So
of course you're gonna have a country full of folks
who are significantly less happy than their European counterparts, if
they feel like they are constantly missing the mark, if
they feel like that they are regularly coming up short
in a certain way. I wonder if the different expectations
that we've set for ourselves as a country, how that

(13:56):
might that right there, might be actually leading us to
have just lower levels of satisfaction and happiness.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, I think when you have this visceral feeling that
you're behind the eight ball all the time, and I
think that's the way a lot of Americans feel and
I think it means for a lot of people that
their expectations are too high. And I don't know what
makes people feel like they need four or five million
dollars in order to be able to retire with ease
when a whole lot of people are doing it well

(14:23):
with a whole lot less. Maybe it's the comparison game
that we are apt to play.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, maybe they don't. Yeah, cribs, you know, that's what
gets the whole thing off, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Was that exhibit hosting that back of the day or
is he doing the pit my ride?

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I don't know he did. I think it did.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay, if you want all the fancy stuff in retirement,
then this is how much you're going to need to
save up. But the truth is it's not that extreme.
And I do think you're right that having lower expectations
is going to lead to less consternation around how much
we need to actually save for retirement. And I think
we can be happier saving less, enjoying more of the
day to day and not feeling as overwhel about creating

(15:01):
some massive, multimillion dollar nest egg. But it's also hard
to figure out exactly how much you need to save
and so next we're going to talk about wide variety
of factors that will influence how you think about how
much you need to have saved up, including debt and inflation,
which has changed the dynamic for a lot of retirees.
We'll get to our thoughts on those fronts right after this.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
All right, we are back from the break, and we're
going to get to I guess, more of the practical
application side of our episode here in a little bit.
But first we wanted to spend a minute talking about
just mindset and how it is that we should be
thinking about wealth and having enough. And so a question
you might be asking yourself is whether or not you
even need to hit millionaire status, because that's going to

(15:53):
depend on a number of different factors out there that
we're going to get into now. Because if you are
in your early twenties, I think it might be easy
to think that you won't need that much, or that
the fairly inexpensive lifestyle that you're able to happily live now,
that it's going to suit you well, you know, thirty, forty,
even fifty years down the road. But the truth is
that might not be the case. Things might cost more

(16:14):
money or I guess not things, but just what your
life looks like might evolve over time.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Because you're less into the hostile and you might want
a hotel room instead, and you know what that is,
what my own room. I think that is one of
those changes in expectations that is normal and okay, and
I think it's yeah, I don't have any problem. I
think it's kind of cool when people in their fifties
or sixties still want to do the hostile lifestyle. More
power to you, But there's a lot of people who
their expectations do change a little bit over time, and
I think there's a difference between those expectation changes and

(16:42):
lifestyle creed.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
I think that's the biggest argument against that. Economists that
put out the consumption smoothing model where he was talking about, oh, no,
you're going to consume a lot, like, go ahead and
consume more relative to how much you are able to
make and invest early on, and then you're just going
to maintain that over time, because I think it's really
tough to maintain that as you get older. There are
certain things that you're not willing to partake in, that

(17:03):
you're not willing to participate in in order to just
simply save a buck.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Can I look back to those ways in which I
was hyper frugal back in the day, And I'm glad
I didn't inflate, not only because it helped me to
save more, but because it felt.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Like it would have gotten too out of hand. Right. Yeah,
I like that I had like a runaway trained.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
I like that I had to do it on a
shoestring budget when I was you know, nineteen twenty twenty one. Yep,
that I was finding free places to stay. That I was,
you know, trying to do it as inexpensively as possible.
I saw it as a game. And now it's kind
of nice that I can afford to ramp up my
lifestyle at least a little bit. You know, I'm not
going out of hand, but yeah, I'm glad I didn't
do it back then.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
And so I mean that's like lifestyle from like a
just how you're spending maybe additional money. But even like
you and I man, like we're frugal dads, and even
still we found that life gets more expensive as you
have kids. Sure, and you know we're not doing private
island vacations with our family or anything like that, not yet.
But we're also not finding the absolute cheapest option on
everything when it comes to our family and our kids.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Not CouchSurfing anymore, Matt, even though I did back in
the day, Well, definitely, it'd be hard to do that
with your kids, and so I'm not sure how well
that would fly with the folks that you would visit.
But bottom line, I think just giving yourself a certain
amount of wiggle room, just a certain amount of margin
for air as you plan and save for the future,
that that's really important. And that's sometimes in the fire
movement it's just blame and we'll talk about specific numbers

(18:21):
in a little bit, but it's twenty five extra expensives
and it's like your expensive today or your expensive further
down the road, because they might not be the same,
and so you have to take that into consideration. I
think something else it's important to mention here is a
higher saving rate has multiple benefits. It's not only that
you're able to stock away more money, specifically hopefully into
those retirement accounts, letting that money compound for you for

(18:41):
years and decades, but it also means that you have
a lower amount of monthly outgoing funds. You basically have
less to fund for retirement if you're keeping your budget
more in check. And call me conservative Matt, but there's
something comforting I would say about save a bit more
than you think you're going to need, leaving yourself more

(19:03):
margin and the ability to change your mind on things.
And so you know this likely means exceeding the savings
rate that you might think you need in order to
garner yourself more cushion. Because maybe yeah, just mentioned fire.
Maybe you discovered the fire movement five years ago and
you quickly calculated some back of the napkin math and
you determined, Hey, I only need three hundred thousand dollars
set aside to quit my day job because my expenses

(19:26):
are so infinitesimally small. I want to go for that
lean fire because I live in my mom's basement and
that's all I need.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Fire. By the way, financial independence retire early, yeah, is
what that stands for.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, let's say your mom says I don't want you
in this basement any longer. I'm kicking you out. Well,
all of a sudden, your expenses go up, and so
yeah has and even if you discovered a five years ago,
your life is already probably a change since that inflection point.
And my guess is in the last five years, with
the reality of inflation, but maybe even just the reality
of the fact that you want different things out of life,

(19:56):
the amount that you need to save has changed. Maybe
you've gotten married to maybe you bought a house, maybe
you had a couple of kids, and if so, I
can pretty much guarantee that will look like a lot
to you five or ten years ago just isn't going
to cut it today. And so you know, I think
we want to set up those both ends of the
spectrum maat that some people tell you you need five
million dollars to retire, or a lot of people think
that that's not true. But then other people think, I'm

(20:18):
going to be able to retire with four hundred k
in the bank at the ripe old age of forty two.
And that might be a bit naive as well.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
It might be pulled the trigger a little too soon
for you to do that, But that's totally dude. When
Kate and I first discovered fire, that's essentially our story.
We did some math while we were in the car
and we were like, oh, man, based on these projections,
we're going to be able to retire in five years.
I loved that it was car math that you did.
Oh okay, we're just sitting in the car talking having
it numbers a discussion. We were all the way job.

(20:47):
We were on the way to a photography job. And
I still remember that conversation that we had as we
talked about Downton Abbey, because because they were that's how
they were able to They're living off the estate, living
off the fat of the land. But yeah, as you
get older, your responsibility like you basically you just gain
more responsibilities and oftentimes you are You've got other folks
in particular that are counting on you to be able

(21:08):
to not be selfish and to be able to work
hard and to earn money. Yeah, and you know, I
think it's also worth thinking ahead a little as well,
and just thinking through maybe how much debt you might
still have hanging around once you are ready to quit work,
because if you still have a mortgage, well, if you've
got a crazy low rate and maybe you are still
able to earn more just a plain ole savings account,

(21:30):
well that's not necessarily going to be a bad thing
to still have a low rate mortgage. But if you've
got high interest rate credit card debts. Well, that's gonna
certainly change the dynamics. And you know, you've still got
student loans hanging around. That's another thing that a lot
of people are finding that. Yeah, especially people, and there
are more people in retirement now with student loans than
ever before. Yeah. Yeah, and you mentioned inflation as well.
Don't forget the fact that just the costs of basic

(21:52):
goods and services are constantly changing. You know, we've seen
costs skyrocket over the past couple of years. Nobody would
have ever guessed that we were going to to see
inflation numbers nearing double digits, and so planning for the
future it involves projecting, even though it's impossible to be
one hundred percent accurate about what our future is actually
going to hold. Again, this is when having some additional paddings,

(22:14):
some of that additional margin that's gonna really come in handy.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I'm all about some extra cushion, extra margin, oftentimes
even just for kind of what it does for you
from a mental perspective, like.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Take some of that stress off me.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, it's like what if the market does, you know,
underperform for a little while, or what if my you know,
costs do exceed when I thought they were going to exceed.
Having that extra cushion means you don't have to freak out.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
What if I graduate from craft beer to fancy wine
and I am taking private jets to Island's jowel, right,
I know, I mean I need a little bit of
money in the bank. It's going to masterly change how
much you need to say, that's for sure. And so
there's part of us Matt that wants to air on
the side of having more just in case. But I
will say this too, We also think that a majority
of Americans probably don't need to have as much socked

(22:56):
away as they think, especially when we're talk about those
people who think they need to read a five million
And I would say a lot of people are more
in touch with the lifestyles of the rich and the
famous than we are our own actual desires, right, And
so we kind of see the I'm just reading a
story the other day about influencers not just renting time
on a private jet to take a picture, but literally

(23:17):
rooms that make it look like you're on a private
jet in order to take a picture. Oh, I've seen
that there's like a first class cockpit. Yes, somewhere that
you can go and rent side of that where you
can take selfies, and it only fuels so dumb. I
think the desire for everyday ordinary people to say I
need that, even though what that is it's fake. It
feels that unhappiness. Yeah, going back to what we're talking
about before.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
And then it feels that like I think I need
more than I actually do, and the increases perpetual, just
devastating cycle for people. Yes, but like what lifestyle do
you expect to live in retirement? I think that's a
good question for us to be to be asking ourselves,
Like and you and I were, neither of us are
about trying to be filthy rich, and that private jet
lifestyle just has no appeal to either one of us.

(23:59):
But really stickly thinking through what expenses you're likely to
have when you do stop working, I think is important.
If you're the kind of person who's more inclined to
go on hikes, to volunteer, to hang out with maybe
grandkids or something like that, you probably don't need as
large of a nest egg as someone else who wants
to travel extravagantly like hit every continence and you know
or wants to move to a beachfront of state. Those

(24:20):
are different calculations that we have to make. So if
you can need less, if you can be content with
having fewer things and not making those big, opulent purchases,
it of course extends directly to how much you're going
to actually need to have saved up for your future.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah. Actually, so on that note, I think it's important
to mention that being a millionaire, it often really doesn't
look that impressive. In fact, I think you'd be hard
pressed to recognize an actual millionaire most of the time
because they don't advertise it with the things that they
buy or the things that they wear, you know, the
things that they're consuming. They often just look like your
average middle class individual, but they are living that stealth

(24:55):
wealth lifestyle that we actually talked about this back in
episode six point fifty. But there's just a massive difference
between lifestyle creep and intentionally choosing to spend more money
as you get older. It makes me think back to
our conversation with Jesse. He's the founder of Why Nab
You Need a Budget, and he talked about as I
think his splurge was going to be some nice leather boots,

(25:18):
and he also talked about working in his woodshop, not
necessarily because it is making him money, not because it's
a side hustle, but because it's just something that he
simply enjoys. It's something that he is willing to pour
more resources into, even though from a financial standpoint doesn't
really make a whole lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, he also said it wasn't lifestyle creep to move
out of that crummy apartment that they were in that
had mole growing in the corners or whatever.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
That was literally just a choice that they made, and
as their income grew, they had the ability to choose
something different, and it wasn't a bad idea to get
the heck out of there, especially with how many kids
they had. I'm sure they handed out there.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
But you can still retain that frugal nature. You can
still continue to save and invest your money, even if
you spend more in a particular area that's going to
be more important to you.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
And I think as you get older, as your nest
egg grows, the calculation that you have to make when
you're making bigger purchases change. It changes, and it actually
it gets easier to spend in certain ways. I think
I was talking. I had a conversation with a friend recently.
He went to a concert, Matt, they had twenty dollars
peers twenty dollars for a local craft beer. And this
is in California, where everything's more expensive. But it just

(26:23):
made me think, Like, when I was in my twenties,
there's no way I would have allowed myself to spend
that much. I knew that I needed to be investing
more and more. I am now thirty nine, and I
enjoy a craft beer, and so if I'm out of
a show, I might allow myself one get one maybe,
but even at twenty bucks, Like it hurts my heart
to kind of pour that much into a one time
beverage while we're out.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
That's true. Yeah. So I think another problem, too, is
just the way that our country views retirement, because oftentimes
I think it's presented as like either this black or
white thing, like you are either working as hard as
you possibly can or you're retired and you're doing nothing.
But we just think that that's a false dichotomy and
that there are other good options out there. So, like,
consider how happy you might be just by dialing back

(27:05):
at work A little bit but still earning a paycheck
where you're still like you still haven't earned income. It
comes down to how it is that folks view what
a lot of folks call retirement.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Which is still, as we've talked about, a relatively new phenomenon. Like,
it's not like retirement has been around forever, so we've.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Certainly gotten used to it. Yeah, but over the past
fifty years, when we've.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Created a really dialed in definition of it, that doesn't
necessarily have to be the case. In all likelihood, it
shouldn't be the case. It's actually probably a bad definition, I.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Think, so. Yeah, And so essentially what we're talking about
here is transitioning from working a whole lot to just
working a little bit less, as opposed to going like
quitting work cold turkey. And I think this makes sense
from a financial standpoint, right, because you're able to like
gradually come down from that income. But this also makes
sense from like what your days are going to look

(27:52):
like perspective as well, because I think it's just so
hard to imagine going from working fifty plus hours a
week like a lot of Americans are, to sitting around
doing like who knows what. And that's because we're a
society of specialists. I mean not just in the US,
but I think a lot of countries are taking this path.
A lot of us are really good at our jobs,
and because of that, it's the main focus. And unfortunately

(28:14):
we just haven't put much effort into developing our other
interests that make life rewarding and then make retirement rewarding too. Yeah,
and I think we need to intentionally cultivate and to
essentially design, like in our minds that like this can
either be a mental exercise or like just I guess
literally writing it out or living it out on the weekend,
like what could this look like? Because it's I think

(28:35):
that maybe that's the difference. Maybe that's the problem is
that folks they go Monday through Friday and they're working hard, hard, hard,
and it's crazy, and then on Saturdays and Sundays they
go crazy watching sports and they're thinking, well, I don't
want to do that like seven days of the week,
and so instead, like because it is sort of a
black and white thing, maybe it would be helpful to
actually map out, to design what your life would actually

(28:56):
look like. And I think that as a society that's
something we could do more of as well, is to
find ways to cultivate and foster some of those other
interests outside of our work.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, having other things than work that make you tick
is important the whole way through life. But when you
get through retirement, if you don't have those things, boy,
it makes retirement a whole lot more difficult.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
I think that's why a lot of people do go
back to work because they're like, retirement was boring. I
don't think it has to be. Like I really think
if we're a little more intentional about cultivating some of
those hobbies, some of those interests along the way, we
don't have to be scared by retirement. I think it
can be a good thing. We can lean into it
really really nicely. But yeah, that all to nothing, that
cold turkey, like you said, I think is understandably scary

(29:35):
for a lot of people who aren't quite prepared. And
let's talk about autonomy as well, Matt, because I think
it's important to mention that retirement can be It's not
this all or nothing thing, and it can be kind
of more of a choose your own adventure and choose
how you approach it. And our listeners and everyone out
there is more in control of their future than they

(29:56):
might feel like they are in the moment. And so
when it comes to DIALO in how much you need
to save and invest for retirement, well, you have the
ability to change a lot of factors in what retirement
is going to cost you. So, for instance, just because
you live in a high cost of living state at
the moment, it doesn't mean that you'll need to stay
there when you reach retirement age. If you live in

(30:16):
California right now, that doesn't mean you have to stay
there when you reach retirement age. Some states don't tax
your retirement income at all, and that may make an
influence I might influence you about where you decide to live.
You might opt to stay close and not move anywhere
because family and community are important to you and those
you don't want to move away, even though it's not
necessarily the cheapest place to live. But the more flexible

(30:38):
you can be, the more likely it is that you
won't even need a million dollars in that four to
one K when you retire. And so if you're willing
to make significant changes like moving to another state or
maybe moving to another country altogether, you're going to find
that your nest egg is going to be able to
stretch much further than your current expenses might lead you
to believe. It's vastly different thing to retire in Hawaii
than it is in Mississippi, Matt when you look at

(30:59):
the numbers, like I think some recent status just came
out about that, and.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
It might even feel like a different country moving from
Hawaii to Alabama.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
They're very different places, very different places. But on top
of that, you might move to choose to move to Thailand, Panama, Columbia,
some of these really inexpensive places for expats where your
dollar goes even further. Maybe you're wanting to live that
Caribbean lifestyle, but do it at a fraction of the cost,
and that means you won't have to save or invest
nearly as much either. There are other decisions you can

(31:26):
make in that kind of choose your own adventure, dial
in how much you need for retirement scenario. But I
think about like the cost of living and where you
choose to live in retirement makes a massive difference. If
you're able to even like sell a home that's worth
eight hundred thousand dollars and then you rent a little
beat shack in Panama for twelve hundred a month. Just
think about how long you can last even without having

(31:48):
saved and invested much at all.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
That's true, and you're just touching on location, right. I
think there are so many other things we also have
control over, just like the going back to designing your
life and the different hobbies that you might want to pursue.
Heads up, if you're going to get into goalf, it's
probably gonna cost you a lot of money, and so
you have control over whether or not that that's something
you pursue. I was joking about getting into fancy wines
a second ago, but this is a part of the
reason why I actually have intentionally avoided. I feel like

(32:12):
I've put blinders on when it comes to nicer wines
because when I do have a nicer wine, I really
like it, and I don't want to learn more about
it because if I get really into it, it's going
to be something that I'm afraid I'm going to find
myself pursuing even more.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
And you can choose to pretend they don't exist. Literally,
I absolutely do.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm still willing to buy a decent bottle that's on
sale there at Costco. But there are a lot of
different things that we have control over, and I think
it's important to remind ourselves of that as we are
thinking ahead to our future. But we've discussed basically how
it is we should be thinking about retirement and how
much money we should be setting aside for the future.
But we're gonna dive into some of the practical steps.

(32:49):
We're gonna get into some of the nuts and bolts.
That way you can legitimately determine how much it is
that you're going to need to set aside for retirement.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
We'll get to that right after this. All right, now,
let's keep going. Let's talk about becoming a millionaire, whether
or not that's a good goal. It is for some,
it's not for others. So people do need to save
up three to five million if you're going to live

(33:16):
that lavish retirement lifestyle that you've been dreaming of. But
other people need a whole lot less. But we've talked
about the need for flexibility. Makes me think of my
mother in law who said, you know what we want
to do. We want to retire and get in an RB.
They bought the RB, they lived in it for six months,
and they said, we hate this thing. And they had
to ditch it. And so you don't know really what
your retirement lifestyle is going to look like until you

(33:38):
get there. So you have to plan kind I think
you know, yeah, yeah, may not. And you've got a
plan for kind of a multitude of potential circumstances. But
let's now talk about kind of some of the practical steps.
Even though there's a lot of unknown when it comes
to planning for our retirement future, some of the practical
steps to get to the end goal that makes the
most sense for you. And so we would say, first,

(33:59):
calculate how much you might need, and I stress might
because there are still so many unknowns, like we've talked
about already, instead of throwing in the towel because three
point nine million feels like an impossible goal, or just
saving as much as humanly possible, even though you wish
you could be spending a bit more. In the here
and now, use some math to your advantage. So use

(34:20):
data to help you understand what your actual needs are
likely to be. And I mentioned this briefly earlier, and
I talked about how it's an imperfect calculation, but twenty
five x your likely annual expenses gets you a decent
understanding of what you should likely be shooting for. And again,
because of inflation, because of time, a variety of factors,

(34:41):
the fact that it's hard to predict what our outgoing
expenses are going to be every single month with accuracy,
especially when we're talking about thirty years down the road.
It is imperfect, but it is helpful. So, for example,
let's say you're spending thirty five thousand dollars a year
as a family annually right now, because you're hyper frugal, Well,
you might want to say, what if it was sixty

(35:01):
thousand dollars by the time we get to retirement. Sixty
thousand dollars times twenty five gives you one point five
million dollars. Maybe that's the number you need to be
shooting for. I think it's at least a good rule
of thumb. Then it's a good starting point, that's right.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, And so the twenty five times rule, it's based
on the safe withdrawal rate of four percent. And we're
not going to dive into like the research and all
the studies that this is based, but just know that
the twenty five x rule that is based on the
safe withdrawal rates of four percent. And a practice that
we would recommend is for you to track your net worth.
If this is not something that you're already doing. We

(35:35):
talked about this back in episode to fifty seven. And also,
your net worth is not going to go up like
clockwork every single year, but the general trend should be
up into the right. By the way, don't start to
think that your personal worth is tied up in your
actual net worth and how much money you have. That's
that's a bit ridiculous. But do add up your assets,

(35:55):
add up your liabilities, and do the math to figure
out your net worth on an annual or a semi
annual basis. You can do this either manually or you
can check out in power that was it used to
be called personal capital, but that's another great way to
automatically track that. But it is just a great way
to follow your progress and to see how you're doing
over time, because it's amazing. How maybe it's not amazing. Actually,

(36:19):
maybe it's discouraging. How it can feel like you're moving
just at a snail's pace, How you're just moving inches
in those first few years, but then it feels like
you're moving feet at a time. Maybe after a decade
too much bigger strides. I can't imagine what it'll look like,
you know, for us, like when we get to be
warm Buffet's age and by the way, the vast majority
of his wealth it's come after retirement age thanks to

(36:41):
the power of compounding returns. And so hopefully when you
calculate how much you need to have set aside in
your portfolio to retire, right you multiplied your annual expenses
by twenty five in order to figure out that dollar amount,
hopefully you are encouraged. But even still, I think there
might be some individuals who might be slightly discouraged because
it still feels like this massive sum of money. But

(37:01):
I just touched on compounding returns, and what I want
to highlight here is that because you might be saying yourself,
there's no way I'm going to be able to close
that gap. This is how much I have currently I
did the net worth thing, this is how much I need.
How it's like I'm not going to be able to
bridge that gap. And what I'm here to say is
that it's not completely up to you in order to

(37:21):
set us. It's not savings right, like we're talking about
investing here. So it's not how much and how hard
it is that you can work in order to bridge
that gap. It also comes down to how hard your
money is going to work. When it comes to bridging
that gap and making up the difference.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
The amount of money you're going to have in retirement
is going to be far in excess of what you
contributed because of compounding returns, right, and so let's talk
about that. One of the most practical ways to get
to the point where you have enough in retirement is
to stick money into those tax advantage retirement accounts. And
most millionaires, Matt, they actually achieve that millionaire status purely

(37:59):
directly by investing in retirement accounts through work. It's crazy,
but it's true. A lot of people assume that it's
through an inheritance or through having some big time job,
but no, that's not the case. There are so many
retirement account millionaires that make up a big bulk of
the millionaire class. They got there over the decades. And
so if you're contributing something like two three four percent

(38:22):
of your income into a retirement account, it's probably not
going to be enough to propel you towards millionaire status
unless your salary is ridiculously high, in which case, true,
you probably are going to need more money because you're
spending most of that. But if you can sock away
fifteen plus percent of your pay, plus snagging a company
match at the same time, that will make it quite
likely that over the years, in the decades, you're going

(38:44):
to easily achieve that mantle. You're going to be able
to have that status of retirement account millionaire. And so
in twenty twenty three, workers can contribute a maximum of
twenty two five hundred dollars per year to tax deferred
plans like a four H one K or a four
H three B, which would two if you did this
over thirty years of your working career, six hundred and

(39:05):
seventy five thousand dollars of total contributions. But if you
do quick math, assuming a seven percent annual return, which
is pretty online, historically, the contributions would grow to be
worth over two million dollars over those decades. So we're
talking about saving up basically less than a third of
what you would have over time, which is pretty cool.
So granted, twenty two to five is a lot to

(39:25):
be able to set aside to invest in a single year,
and especially trying to do that every single year over
thirty years not necessarily easy, but it just goes to
show you even if you did, if you did half
of that, you would be over a million dollars in
those decades. So just important to note that this is
one of the easiest best ways to get there slowly
but surely by making those contributions with every paycheck.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
When it comes to like a way to illustrate compounding
growth is imagine a pond and it's got a lily
pad there on the pond, and at the end of
the month, right, so say you're starting out in day one,
say by day thirty one, the pond is going to
be completely covered in lily pads. This is a lily
pad that likes to multiply by one hundred percent. It
doubles every single day. And if you were to ask somebody, okay, hey,

(40:08):
when is that pond going to be halfway covered in
lily pads, a lot.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Of people would say day sixteen or seventeen.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
The way our minds work, we think linearly and we think,
oh yeah, about halfway through the month, when in fact,
if you think about it for maybe a second, longer
you realize, oh no, it's literally day thirty, it's the
day before the last day of the month that the
lily pads only cover half of the pond. And so
that is the power of compounding. Granted, you're not like
you're not going to see one hundred percent returns within

(40:35):
your portfolio. But the idea here is just to illustrate
the power of compounding. Angel you were just talking about
how you would sock away six hundred and seventy five
thousand dollars in total contributions if you have a workplace
retirement account, and how that's much less than the two
million total that you would have at the end of
your working career. But if you don't have access to

(40:56):
a natural workplace retirement account, you can still become a
millionaire only simply maxing out a roth IRA. And so
instead of socking away just over twenty two thousand dollars
a year, you've only got to invest sixty five hundred
and you do that for roughly thirty seven years, and
it's very very likely that you're gonna have seven figures
on hand, and so keep that in mind as well.

(41:18):
You don't have to have a four to one k
with a sweet match in order to hit that millionaire status.
And another recommendation for folks, turn on automatic increases for
your contributions the amount that you are putting towards retirement
if you do have a workplace retirement account. And this
is just a simple way that you are going to
be able to set it and forget it. You just
make that quote unquote hard decision just once, and your

(41:41):
contributions are gonna increase maybe one or two percent each year. Man,
Like when Warren Buffett he was asked about why more
people don't copy his approach when it comes to investing,
he said that it's because nobody wants to get rich slowly.
And man, he is totally right, because like the sexy,
the unproven route, it holds appeal to so many folks,

(42:02):
but nobody wants to map out a game plan for
the next thirty years. But it is going to be
the most surefire away to actually become a millionaire.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, a lot of people say they envy Warren Buffett
or they look at him with admiration, but most people
don't want to follow that path. That's why that's the
allure of crypto, right, That's the allure of NFTs or
single stocks it is to be able to go to
the moon really quickly, but most people end up getting
burned and it only prolongs their ability to reach financial
independence to meaningfully build wealth through their future, and getting

(42:33):
rich slowly is the surefire way to do it, but
you're right, it takes more time than most people want
to give. And this is an instance, Matt, when it
really pays to keep things incredibly boring by investing in
low cost index funds, which, yeah, investing doesn't need to
be sexy and shouldn't be sexy if you want to
become a millionaire, if you want that super fun, investing
the lights, the bells and the whistles, you're less likely

(42:55):
to get there. And instead, we want you to focus
on ways that you can afford to increase those contributions
over time. How can you dial those up little by
little over time. You talked about automatically increasing contributions every year.
I think that's one good way to do it. Also,
I want to make an argument for being frugal and
being able to invest more of your income over the

(43:16):
years and decades, because it really adds up. And I
think one thing that can help us to do that.
We just talked about it in a recent how to
Money newsletter, was using the rule of one seventy three
to your advantage so you can see how much current
recurring expenses are actually costing you. The truth is, we
all have small leaks in our financial lives, and a
lot of them are happening on a recurring basis, like

(43:36):
subscriptions that we sometimes even forget about. But plugging a
bunch of small leaks, it doesn't feel like it's going
to have a massive impact over just the course of
a single month. But the rule of one seventy three
helps us understand just how much those recurring trips are
costing us over the course of a decade. So because
that helps us see not just how much is leaving

(43:57):
our account, but that amount plus the market return were
missing out on. So how do you use this rule?
Will just multiply that monthly expense by one hundred and
seventy three, and you'll see the amount of money you
would have had over the course of a decade had
you rained in that expense and invested it instead. So
let's say you are spending too much eating out, which
is a problem for most Americans, let's say you spend

(44:18):
one hundred dollars less on eating out. You're able to
cut that budget back. That's seventeen three hundred dollars more
in your retirement account after just ten years, which just
helps put a small leak in perspective as to how
much you could actually grow that money over time if
you were to do something better with it instead of
using it on uber eats and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
That's true. And by the way, you said cut back
one hundred dollars, you didn't say just to eliminate it completely.
You could still go out to a restaurant here and there.
But the ability just to rain in some of your expenses.
The rule of when seventy three helps put that in perspective.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well, like we talked recently on a Friday flight about
how Americans are spending more eating out than they are
on groceries, and if you would just flip that equation
a little bit, you can easily find one hundred bucks.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
That's right. Yeah, And so these different calculations like these
are just simple rules of thumb that it shouldn't be
the final say as to how much you're going to
have after ten years or how much you need to
have set aside for retirement, but they should help you
to have a decent understanding of how much you'll need
to set aside. But the bottom line is that there
are so many other considerations, like whether you're going to
have other sources of income beyond what you've invested in

(45:21):
retirement accounts. You need to consider how much you're going
to be receiving in Social Security payments that are coming in.
Do you have some rental property, do you have some
pension income. Maybe you're going to continue to work part time,
like we talked about earlier, as you might be considering
some different ways to transition from that full time, high
paying job to something that maybe doesn't pay quite as much.

(45:41):
So the more flexible you can be, the more options
you'll have. And you certainly want to make sure that
you take into account some of the additional sources of
income that you're going to have in addition to how
much you've stalked away for retirement.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned social Security. That's one of
those things too that you have. If you're more flexible,
if you can delay, you know, if it makes sense
for you to delay, and then if you can delay
taking social Security until later sixties or you hit seventy,
which almost nobody does. But if you do that, you
can get a guaranteed eight percent return every single year
you wait to take it, and that can make a
massive difference in the amounts you're able to collect in

(46:13):
that check, meaning you have to invest last for your
future too, because social Security is carrying more of the burden.
It's meaning more of your monthly expense. And a lot
of people, I think, especially younger folks, they're down on
the role that social Security is going to play in
their retirement. And we certainly don't want that to be
your main source of income when you stop working. We
want you to be proactively taking care of your retirement

(46:36):
future now as you invest for the long haul. But
for a lot of retirees, Matt, it is it is
the main source of income. And so even with the
awkward spot that social security is in from a political perspective,
you and I we've talked about this, we still expect
that at minimum, you're going to get paid seventy five
percent of the amount that the Social Security Administration says
you're due. We need to make changes to shore social

(46:58):
Security up for years and decades to come, and there
doesn't seem to be the political will to actually make
that happen. But for those even for gen z ers
out there thinking well, I'm not counting on social security,
I mean, I think you need to invest and save
for your own future, and you don't want to count
on it exclusively, of course, but to assume that there's
not going to be any social security would be highly unlikely.

(47:19):
There would be some Yeah, some heads will roll before
entitlements are. There are gonna be a lot of politicians
that office if that's the case.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah. So let's close this with the great words of
Thomas soul And he's got a quote where he says
that there are no solutions, there are only trade offs.
And I think that it's no surprise that we're drawn
to different headlines that taut specific numbers that we should
be shooting for. I think we're oftentimes looking for a
way to simplify things. Right, Like, we live in a

(47:47):
very chaotic world, and when there is chaos like this,
I think we are as individuals, we try to create
some clarity, and we try to attach our goals and
our sites to something that feels very tangible. Yeah, saving
for retirement. That is not an easy endeavor when it
comes to cobbling together multiple sources, whether that's through your
roth IRA, maybe a little bit, a little bit of

(48:08):
four O and K, maybe a little bit of rental income,
a little bit of social security. It is complex and
it is difficult, and because of that, oftentimes we are
looking for just a very simple, easy answer. There are
no simple easy answers. But hopefully we have been able
to reframe how it is that you think about retirements
and that that will give you some actionable steps to

(48:29):
help inform how it is that you think about retirement,
but also actual steps that you can actually take that
will allow you to get there, to not just feel
like you're going to be prepared for the future, but
to actually get prepared and to be prepared by the
time you reach those later years.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Or to realize that you already are preparing well because
you've already you're already investing in nineteen twenty percent of
your income and you're like, I'm well on my way.
It feels like I need to do more, but maybe
I don't.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, you happen to strike it just right. You're not
oversaving somehow, you are living life in the here and now,
you are finding balance while also saving four in the future.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
You've reseat Goldilocks level, which is great. But I think, yeah,
going back to kind of what I talked about at
the very very beginning, that Sherlock Holmes approach, like, do
some observing, ask some questions, and keep doing that over
the years. It's not Oh, I don't think it's a
one time conversation or a one time thing. You have
to kind of keep going back to that. How are
we doing on our progress? And that's why you mentioned
tracking your net worth? That comes into play too. But

(49:22):
the more we're kind of following along and seeing how
we're doing in our progress and are we continuing to
save and invest at the rates we hoped at the
rates we need to in order to achieve the goal
that we have that's going to be different than everyone
else's goal because we all have hyper unique situations. I
think that that's an important ongoing conversation. But Matt, let's
get back to the beer we had on this episode.

(49:42):
This was called Double Clutch Nitro oatmeal stouts. This was
from a brewery in Wyoming called Gruner Brothers. What was
your take on this one?

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Well, I would say it was incredibly smooth with the
nitro that they had in this can so any beers
out there that are they're not fermented, they're just I guess,
pumped with nitro. They're gonna come out really silky. If
you're a fan of Guinness, you would be a fan
of this beer because it's not carbonated with CO two
actual carbonation, but it's with nitro. Yeah, yeah, it does.

(50:11):
I guess is it nitrogen xoxide? Is that?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I guess? Well, the two things I wrote down were
guinness and silky like what you mentioned both words because
it does have bingo massive Guinness vibes with a little
more of an oatmeal vibe going through because it is
an oatmeal stout. So but yeah, if you like Guinness,
this is kind of one of those beers would be
totally up your alley you would love. I personally do
like Guinness. I typically I don't trick it very often.
It's been a long time. Same but as and by

(50:37):
the way, did you realize Guinness is actually one of
the lower calorie beers out there.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Surprisingly people don't think.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
So interesting because it's so it feels so heavy and bready,
and people I think that it's heavy, Yeah, but it's not.
It's actually locale. But yeah, I think Guinness is a
great beer, and I think this one was kind of
in that vein just as good, probably a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Actually nice. Well it's called double clutch. Do you know
what that's referring to.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Is it like an old van or it looks like
some sort of old truck that had two two clutches?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
So well, yeah, yeah, so I think with like I
think tractor trailers still have to do this, but you
have to double clutch, which means you have to push
the the clutch down in order to pull out of
the gear, but then you have to repress it again
in order to get it into the next year. So
it's double clutch.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I will say, I'm miss driving a manual transmission car.
I will do it again someday. And I hear that
coming back into vogue.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
A little bit. Did I tell you about driving my buddies.
He's got like a it's like a seventies or maybe
an early eighties FJ to get an f J. Oh No,
obviously it was a manual four speed, but definitely drives
like an old truck or like an old tractor basically,
And I will say, I'm patting myself on the back.
I didn't stall out once. Look at you.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, I probably would. Saw like it's been so long,
it's been so.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Long, so long for me as well as I was, Yeah,
so nervous trying to parallel park an old FJ on
a city street. Yeah, I was all sweating bullets.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
I get it. I would be too, I would be too.
I still remember those first days driving a manual. It
was not pretty. I stalling out on main roads and
stuff like that, but stalling out on a hill, Yes,
what's more terrifying than that. That's the worst. Especially when
someone's like right up on your bumper. You're like, I'm
going to kill them. Yeah, yeah, please back up. All right,
that's gonna do it. For this episode. You can find
show notes links to some of the resources we mentioned

(52:10):
up on our site at how toomoney dot com. Don't
forget about the how to Money newsletter. Just go to
how to money dot com slash newsletter.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Sign up for that.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
It's free, it's fun, it's informative, and you'll get it
in your inbox every Tuesday morning. But Matt, that's gonna
do it. For this episode until next time, best Friends
Out and best friends Out

All Episodes

Who Wants to Literally Be a Millionaire? (Bestie Ep) #1080

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Joel Larsgaard

Matthew Altmix

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Who Wants to *Literally* Be a Millionaire? (Bestie Ep) #1080