March 20, 2023 • 51 mins
Holland is joined by the TW Director of Photography, Jonathan Hall! Jonathan explains the creative freedom they had on the show and what they did with it. He breaks down the making of a very significant moment and shares a story that involves Colton being all wet!
Plus, he reveals an Easter Egg you may have missed from an infamous scene! Time to wolf-up because you don’t want to miss this!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is heller Back Now with me Holland Rowden and
I Hunt Radio podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome to heller Back Now.
I'm Holland Roden, and today on the show, we have
our first behind the scenes guest aside from Jeff Davis,
and I'm very excited to introduce Jonathan Hall, our first
(00:24):
director of photography on teen Wolf. And I think a
lot of the reason people gravitated towards the show was
it had the humor. We always were able to make
fun of ourselves. But the show is so beautiful and
you know, you made us look good. You put pretty
filters on those lenses. We'll get into some of the
technological aspects of what a DP does, and so we
(00:48):
have a we have a saying here, Jonathan That Smartness,
one of my favorite podcasts, talks about one of the hosts,
Aunts in Michigan. I think it's in Maryland and so Posey.
A few episodes it goes says, Okay, we're gonna make
our own person. It's Kimberly and Michigan. I believe Kimberly
and Michigan. This is this is for her. We're gonna explain,
We're gonna break everything down in Layman's terms, so that
(01:09):
also I can understand it as well from a DP
point of view. But welcome, Thank you so much for
coming on, Thank you for having me. Yeah, today we're
gonna be breaking down episode eight. It's called Lunatic. And
then mainly the reason I wanted to have you on
was this is the fan shot. Do you remember that
fan shot where Tyler Posey's in the shower and there's
that fan in the background behind Styles and he's having
(01:31):
this panic attack and Styles trying to talk him off
the ledge, and there's the there's the fan across the screen,
across the cameras Scott's space. Do you remember the shot too?
In fact, how did that shot get set up? I started?
One of the one of the things when you do
in television show is how do we make everything different?
It's tough to do that because it's you know, there's
(01:52):
certain amount of sets and time and everything. Um and
I believe Russell did that episode or was it Russell?
Hey Man? True? It was Tim. Okay, that makes a
lot more sense because Tim was always you know, Russell
is so out of the box, and when you're the
other director with Russell, the only way to compete is
(02:12):
to think outside the box even more, right, So I
remember specifically this device that we actually had to make
with like cutting a hole in the set and coming
up with an electric way to make a fan work
but not go to fast, not too slow. And I
remember that being a big thing. We needed to find
the perfect balance of you know, fan look but also
(02:32):
not going to make anybody go into a seizure. It
was just, you know, sometimes it would go a little
too fast. It's like, oh, how long did that shot?
Did it set up? So you guys had this, It
wasn't just an on the fly thing. You had this
made for them. Yeah. Well, I mean the cool thing
about the behind the scenes stuff for me is when
you learned that it was like something that was just
interesting but you forget, you know a little later, was
(02:55):
something that took it somebody or a group of people
a few days to figure out how to make it
subtle but work, you know. So that's that's the that's
the fun part about art is like you'd look at
a painting and you're like, oh, that's cool. It looks
like it's looks like the kind of slashed here and
slashed there and split some blue over here. But no,
it took a months or years to figure out how
the perfect balance of that and if it helped give
(03:18):
a very uncomfortable feeling the scene that was really intentioning,
I think it did. It was such a lovely, lovely shot.
I had no idea this I'm learning this that I
didn't know you. I thought this was one of these.
Usually Russell will come in not with a very detailed
shot list or in a shot list at all. And Tim,
I remember, was very organized. Yeah, he had every shot
so carefully planned out. So I'm not surprised that you
(03:39):
guys had that foresight for that episode then to to
be able to build a contraption. Yeah, it was very planned,
which was awesome, you know it was it was almost
like a you know, a completely different tempo of work
when it was from Russell. Russell's coming a lot more
rock and roll with like his back, his background and
being a little bit more you know, on the day,
seeing an opportunity and just going for it instead of
(04:01):
if he planned it all, then it would be boring
because he hates that he needs the energy at all times,
whereas Tim is very methodical, which is great for me
because like the c both creative, you know, outlooks and
it helps. Yeah. Yeah, you dped every episode, didn't you. Yeah,
the pilot and the first two seasons was me. You. So,
usually on a lot of TV shows Kimberly and Michigan,
(04:23):
you switch off, you know, you'll have another DP prepping
an episode while you're on the episode, right or is
that not the case? So? So how were you doing
this for two seasons? It was brought up very early
on if I wanted a relief DP for like every
you know, every other or every two or whatever. And
I was super young when I started on that show. Yeah,
(04:46):
I was. I mean I was some people. I was
like a year older than the cast were because you
were what mid twenties. So I did the pilot I
was twenty five. I didn't really do that young wow.
And then yeah, I mean by the time I left it,
I was only two twenty seven, which, uh, if I
was gonna I was gonna pat myself back. Was the
youngest cinematographer to two an hour series, But yeah, I
(05:08):
was trying to do it was one of them at
that point. It was super rare to be that young,
which is why it was. It still is it's still
very rare to be that young. Yeah, when I kept
my mouth chet because I was I think it was
more nervous that if somebody found out, they'd be like,
he's got kids, gotta go. That's a trope that I
think it needs to be discussed more in this business
because acting in such a young man's game and camera
(05:29):
tends to be you know, sixty seventy years old is
the average DP. It's true, you know. And so I
know a lot of camera people that that are in
their thirties and forties, and in a few in their twenties,
but mostly I know thirties and forties that still feel
like they have to hide their age or they're really
fighting their way in to DP projects in their thirties
(05:51):
and forties, and they're looked at it sort of kids.
And You're like, I'm not a kid, and I'm you know,
this is I mean, I'm holding up to have a family,
and it's it's um. It's not talked a lot about
in the business that there's a bit of an ageism,
but for against young people, not not the older people. Yeah, no,
it was it was the thing that I was definitely
I was a little nervous about so I didn't really
(06:12):
talk too much about it, but um, you know, looking
back on it, it was it was an amazing like
that was my first television endeavor. Um. I had always
been the indie guy, the indie movie world action stuf,
second unit stuff, and then I had to gotten lucky
and did a movie about a year earlier than the
pilot with Russell. It just worked out that it worked
(06:34):
out and he and I got along great, and he
called me randomly and said would you like to do
a pilot? And I said, you beat me to the punch.
That's how you got involved in De Wolf was through
Russell in the indie what was the indie called the
indy was give Him Home Alone? But Thomas Jane and
Bing Rams. Thomas Jane what an amazing actor. Yeah, it
was right before he got that show Hung Too, so
(06:56):
he was sort of, you know, he was sort of
waiting for that big break again. You know, he's always
a popular actor, but then you get that show and
it was like I couldn't get him on the phone.
Oh I love that. Well, We're going to take you
to the first few scenes of this episode, and I
want to see what you remember It starts in the woods,
and this brought in the show. Alison and Scott have
(07:16):
just broken up. They were stuck in the school all
night and you know, as a results, Alison didn't feel
like Scott really protected the team and she was quite
scared of, you know, the werewolfism that was coming out
of him. The aggression sot to lunatic. Starts with a
lot of drama amongst the core teenage crowd of our
(07:37):
our characters and Team Wolf and we're walking through the
woods and Scott and Styles. Styles just determined to get
Scott drunk because he says that's what you do when
you break up with your girlfriend. It's my job to
get you drunk. And Scott can't get drunk. And there
was a lot of action in that first the first
few scenes with the two quote kind of bully guys
walking up and Scott basically you know, scares them off,
(08:01):
and then those two bullies get taken or one of
them gets taken by the were a wolf as Scott
and Styles are able to get to the jeep. Do
you guys have technical hips of when you're shooting something
and someone gets taken or out of frame or side frame,
when you have to do a stunt that leaves a
bit of mystery at the end. Um how do you
(08:24):
approach that as a dp UM. Well, at the time
I was, I was learning a lot of stuff from
all of my action work that I've done and I
had done in Second Unit, and Tim was Tim was
very clever about any sort of in camera tricks, and
to me, that's the more powerful stuff. I mean, you
see a lot of Marble movies now that where they're
they're visual effects, and they're a little bit too unbelievable.
(08:48):
I think one of the one of the fun things,
one of the many fun things about Teen Wolf, especially
the first couple of seasons, is that we were in
between this technology were where we were a digital platform
and we were you know, it was everything was just starting.
So like, visual effects were very expensive to do still
(09:08):
for television because of the turnaround time and everything you do.
It they existed, it just that they weren't as your
iPhone couldn't do half the stuff which you can now.
So back then it was sort of easier to just
do things physical like hand pulls and things like that.
And in all fairness where I came from, I always
thought that that gave a lot bigger reaction anyway, because
if you see something that's physically happening, especially to an
(09:31):
actor getting pulled out of frame physically and aggressively, you
can relate to something like that happening to you, and
it could see a little bit more jumpy. And I
think that's the main goal that Tim definitely wanted, was
a visceral reaction. I know definitely Russell did. And those
two come from a physical world, you know, first before
visual effects. And that was one of the marks that
(09:52):
I liked about the way that it was approached on
the show was let's see if we could do it
for real. Yeah, there was a lot of practicals. Lot
you guys are all game too. I mean some of
the stuff you guys did was I would stand in
the corner and be like, they're really going to do that?
All right? Well, I mean, Posey is like Gumby, like
he is just so bendable and jumpy, and I remember,
(10:15):
you know, uh, Dylan and Tyler were able to like
park hour up the sides of the trailers, and you know,
I was always worth he to get hurt and uh
my only my only real well until the season four,
my real stunts on the show mostly consisted of running
in heels, which I do think you remember some of it,
which is incredibly hard to do in the woods or
(10:36):
an uneven ground or in blow zero temperatures. Yeah. Yeah,
oh yeah. You were there for all of the hypothermia
and the lake shots and the wet you know, wet
shirtless Jackson's and Tyler's. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I had no
idea that we were very lucky to have such a
cast that was game to do everything, and I think
that had to do a lot with the youth. You
(10:58):
guys were young, and definitely we were trained well on
that show. Do you feel like you were trained in
a certain way on Teen Wolf because you didn't have
a relief DP and the fact that, like I go
to other projects now and nothing phases me. Like I'm
trying to think if I've been phased yet. There was
what I did Escape Room in South Africa, where the
(11:19):
sets were very elaborate, and the amount of time you
would spend on those sets, you know, an escape room,
you would be several weeks in one room and a
lot of them were master shots that I had not
done on Teen Wolf yet. So you're coming to work
every day as talent, no matter what, because you're always
in these master shots and so there's no downtime. I
(11:40):
mean that's where I really applaud, Like, oh I wish
I wish people that watched entertainment, watch movies and TV
could could understand how hard a cruise schedule operates. I
mean it is fourteen to sixteen hours a day at
least at least thirteen so I guess French hours or ten.
(12:00):
But but that's that's happening a bit more where you
skip lunch Kimberly and Michigan. Um. But uh, but yeah,
the practicals were, um, we're really fun. We're really fun
and and and we were we were trained. Do you
find you were trained well in a sense like yeah,
I mean additionwise, looking looking back on it, Um, I
don't know how much I'm allowed to say this stuff,
(12:21):
but uh yeah. But Team Wolfe was the first our
drama um that was on Viacom or on MTV, And
with that came two great things. One, they didn't really
know how to handle us, so a lot of times
they just sort of the studio would just be like, okay,
just deliver us a show. Do what you gotta do.
(12:43):
Here's the money, that's all you get, you know. So
it allowed us to do a lot of things. A
lot of TV shows didn't um like the schedules that
we were able to have these giant you know, the
page counts weren't great on the you know, they weren't huge.
We shot like a movie basically. Well that I guess
is that these scripts they weren't big pages, but they
had you know, a thousand scenes in them, like we were.
(13:05):
We never laid in one place for more than two
or three pages of four pages. So it was a constant.
That's why there was company moves all the time and everything,
and that makes for great television. But we were working
on a you know, a small cable budget, very small
cable budget. Yeah, and but I mean the good thing
of that is that they left us alone and they
didn't sort of they didn't sort of demand specific things.
(13:27):
So we utilized that to the best of the filmmaking
knowledge that we did, and I think got to block
schedule a lot. We got to jump around because we
really only had serious directors and you it was Tim
Russell our two directors, and you and so it and
then Jeff So it was Basically I felt sometimes like
it was a student film that we just kind of
(13:48):
kept getting funded to keep doing because we would throw
the schedule out a lot and rearrange things as we
saw fit, and we could because it's like, oh, in
two episodes, we need this, let's go ahead and get
it now. The script is here, and that, yes, that
that I feel like was a bit more rogue than
most TV shows that I've been on. And Jeff was
(14:11):
it wasn't was incredibly game to make whatever work. Like
if it didn't quite work or we were behind schedule
and we needed to do one thing, you know, one
thing to tweak to make it easier, he would he
would be there at four o'clock in the morning writing yep.
So that was also a big help that I don't
think every TV show gets to have. And it was
(14:32):
quite collaborative. Yeah, it was, I mean it was it
was for me looking back on it, and it was
the best introduction to television as a behind the scenes
as a cameraman that they could because everybody wanted just
wanted to make a good project and they were all
one hundred percent game to do whatever was necessary. So
it was perfect. Yeah, really unique. I mean because I
(14:53):
should just I've worked on since you know, it's not
that they're not collabortive. Everyone has to be collaborate on
a set, but there everyone just kind of had more
of their position and um, there's not as much tossing
the ball. It's like the eighties make the schedule and
you follow the schedule. So so yeah, that was definitely
unique and it's cool that you coming on here. We
(15:14):
get to see behind the scenes in a whole new perspective. Um,
because I keep saying that actors are only the tip
of the iceberg, and there's you know, one hundred plus
two hundred people in these in these companies that are
these TV shows. Um. So so yeah, the practicals were
a lot of fun, and we see we see a
lot of it in this In this episode, Um, because
(15:34):
Derek Hale is missing and we have to find Derek. Um.
We go to the school and Beacon Hills is now
open back up and uh, Melissa ponsdo who else was
Melissa McCall on the show says, you know, you don't
have to go to school. I think this is about Alison,
that you're in a bad melody. It's like, I'm gonna
not a bad mind. I'm gonna get her back. Um.
(15:57):
And there's a lot of riff raff about Lydia talking
about how you know Scott should owe sus some therapy bills,
the fact that he just less about in the school
with the creature, right um uh. And then at that point,
Um Styles wants in on the action and approaches his dad,
and his dad's like, no, go take your test. There's
(16:17):
a big test at school. There's always something you always
something big going down at school if there's something big
going down in the supernatural world to Beacon Hills. So
when Scott sits down to take this test, he starts
hearing the pins cracking and the people whispering. Um, that's
fun because you you know the camera angles, get to
work with audio. How has your experience been working with
(16:40):
audio or production design? When you set up your shots, Um,
I mean they're a lifesaver. They only enhance and bad
sound can destroy. Whereas cameraman like myself, we tend to
play ourselves on a pedestals like, oh, the image is
number one has to be well. Honestly, it can be
a crappy image and have amazing sound and you get lost.
(17:04):
But the opposite way doesn't work. It could be if
it's terrible sound and it looks you know, morgeous. Right,
yeah you're out, you know, you don't care, But yeah,
it only enhances. So if you can in that in
that instance, anytime we focused on anything that was going
on in the mind of Tyler, the sound was really
(17:25):
the key to the whole thing. So all we had
to do was build the window. They built what was
coming through it. And that's I mean, listen, every team
on that show, from sound to visual effects, to color
grading to everything on the post end, everybody was again
like they were on set. Everybody was in tune and
they were in for the long haul. And I think
(17:46):
the sound on that show is I mean, it rivals
most theatrical films. Ah. And that's the one thing I
feel like, I've been acting for fifteen years and I
know very little about the sound industry, and there's this
other dimension that we take for granted, or I'll speak
for myself that I take for granted. So this one
(18:16):
was this one kind of what was one that was
out a bit out of character because like Lydia and
Scott are making out in this episode, it's almost like
we narratively went off on a bit of a tangent
like is this gonna happen? Is Lydia gonna betray Allison?
Is Jackson and Alison gonna get together? There's a few
little flirtatious hints throughout these few episodes, So it's almost
this cusp of season one narratively of you know how
(18:39):
much riff raffer we're going to get in amongst the
core group versus the drama from from Beacon Hills supernatural Arena.
So he runs out from the test and this is
the hallway scene where Styles is yelling at Scott, but
he only finds his backpack in the hallway and it
leads to the infamous locker scene that we've started this
episod it with, And that is where you built the
(19:02):
contraption for the fan. Was that your idea or was
that Tim's idea? Was that a collaborative idea? I believeber
idea Tim's idea? Had you built one before this contraption
that you I have blabored or not? Yeah? Really it was.
It was a very big tool at one point, and
we revisited it. Have you used it since I've done
(19:24):
a version of it there's always you always want to
come up with some sort of fun atmospheric element. And
sometimes you can do them with propellers, you can do
them with sheets of glass that move. We can do
them with a bunch of different things. Whether other projects
have you used them on? Just recently on a film
I did We did. You know when you're sitting in
a diner or something and cars passed by, and it's
(19:44):
not it's not their headlights, it's because it's daytime. It's
like a reflection of something. The sun kind of stripes through.
Was it kind I built a mirror that or had
I didn't build it, I had somebody built me a
mirror that did the same sort of thing, where it
would always have a different reflection, would come at a
random time while people are talking. So it felts very
alive outside in post put a bigger car traffic world
(20:08):
just helps to have. I mean, it makes those imperfections,
I think, enhance something to feel more real than just perfect,
because I think that if things are too beautiful, we
tend to think that they're fake, that they're homeark. You know,
if everything's perfectly lit, if everybody is just dazzlingly sparkly
(20:29):
and perfectly framed. It just it takes you into the
stage world a little bit more designed, and you don't
believe it as much. And one of my things, and
I'm sure Tim and Russell would agree, there's a beauty
in an imperfection. And if you can give something that
is a little bit unusual in every shot, I think
that that's just a gem. So, oh, that's lovely. Yeah,
(20:50):
there's I remember acting with them when you're in a
fire the fire the light of a fire does not
actually light your face when you're acting on camera, and
so you have the fake firelight that like, will you know,
sort of a kindle on your face, that sort of
crisp cackle, sort of crackling of the of the fire
(21:11):
that reminds me of the mirror, the mirror gag. Yeah,
it's it's interesting. Or even like a light in a
painting where I'll take for granted if it's a part
of the paintings lighters through a window. You know, there's
people through a window, and that's the painting. The people
closer to the window will have their face, you know,
more brightly lit than the people further back from the window,
(21:32):
and the painting and you just sort of think that's
how your eye catches something because that's what we're used
to seeing in real life. But the painter set that
up that way where there would be a lighter, you
know color for the face to people that were closer
to the window, a brighter color. So that's yeah, it's
a It also applies to to television as well everything. Yeah,
(21:55):
I mean that's that's why I when when you and
other actors are doing scenes too, there's also you don't
you look for the weird thing that your character might
do that is not, you know, scripted, because it's perfect,
it wouldn't be great. You know, if there's there's there's
unusual things to stand out, that's what you want. Okay, Yeah,
it's interesting. Yeah. See, these are things that people that
(22:18):
watch Team will full have a new appreciation for when
they when they look back. Um, yeah, I loved it.
It's I think season one that that fan shot was synonymous.
That's one of the first things I thought of when
I thought of when I got done shooting Season one,
we got to watch it. Um, it was one of
the creepiest scenes. I thought it was great to make
your protagonists look mean or scary. It was great. So
(22:39):
Styles gives Scott the inhaler to feel better in the
locker room scene, and he does start to feel better,
and Scott says that he looked at Alison and he
felt like that someone had hit him with a hammer,
and he says he can't stop thinking about her, and
Styles reminds him that her dad is a werewolf hunter,
and uh says. Scott says, well, I could just I
feel everyone emotions. Um, he can hear everything, and Styles
(23:03):
says it's gonna be a full moon and that they're
gonna have to lock him in a room so that
he doesn't hurt anybody. And Scott said they had to
do more than lock him in a room because he
thinks he might kill someone. Did were you a fan
of Supernatural growing up? And that's totally okay if he
were not. I had seen a bunch, but it was
it was not the show that I watched often. No,
(23:27):
those people sense so yeah, right, right right? But when
when you grew up, what were the shows you like
to watch? Like? Were they were they science fiction? Were they?
Or did you watch movies? I did watch primarily movies. However,
I did catch the last bit of Smallville. It was
when it was on and then Yeah, I mean mostly
it was movies. All the great television was happening when
(23:47):
I was in college. All that sort of great indie
film turn television was happening when I was in college.
And when I was in college, it was it was
either school or we were going to a film, you know,
at night. It wasn't a lot of televisience time during that.
But looking back on it now that that time for
television was such a golden age. Right before I had
done that show, I mean, even things like The West Wing,
(24:09):
you start watching it and you're like, these people are incredible,
Like he Rose, He Rose was supernatural, I guess too,
and that the show was amazing. Twenty four was amazing.
I did catch some of twenty four because I ended
up working on it a little bit. And those are
shows where they just sat down in the boardroom one
day and they're like, what if we just made a
really cool show, Like that's a genius idea, we should
(24:30):
do that. It was like a really cool show. Yeah, Yeah,
it was really good and people are talented and it
was just fun to watch. Yeah, He's onto something. Did
you was there anything in particular, you set up for
camera because it was a warawolf show that you would
have not set up otherwise, or did you try to
look at it like this is a normal run of
the Mill show and it happens to be a warreawolf show. No,
(24:51):
I just don't know if it was strustful, if it
was Jeff. It was probably Jeff because it was super
early on. But one of the first things when we
were sitting down at a at a meeting before before
we even shout the pilot is I read the script
and Russell and I had just did that film together,
and I was My tendency was to be very It
was always to be very noir, very sort of moody
as a as a shooter. And when I got to
(25:14):
the meeting after reading the script, there was I was
nervous of what people would say because you know, the
on the script it could go one of two ways.
It could go very wye and very polished and very
you know, everybody looks great and you can just do
a fun, small bill version of it, or you could
go really crazy with it. And somebody said, I want
this to be like Lost Boys, and I immediately yeah,
(25:36):
like I got this. This is awesome. Yes, it's it's
it's cold, it's moody, it's intense, it's scary, it's got
wide angle lenses, close, long lenses back like I got
it in the minute I heard that, I was, I was.
I knew that everybody was on the same page. You
and Jeff sank up at that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
because that was what I was thinking. I just didn't
know what, you know. The only thing at the time
(25:58):
that I could reference film wise was like, I don't
know Twilight, but Twilight was on that border of like
it was maybe's you know, and yeah, and then he
said Lost Boys in like absolutely that was That's a
perfect reference. Yeah. It had a real grit and like
just scrappiness to season one and no real like swing
of the pendulum, like a lot of just a very
(26:20):
fun energy and a very scrappy energy at the same time.
When I would look at you guys like um scheming
behind the camera, it was like they're up to something,
and it was always fun to see what you guys
are doing and building supernatural. A lot of us haven't
come from that. Even Jeff had it, you know, he
had done Criminal Minds it was such a different genre,
(26:40):
so to approach it, like you're saying, you know, do
you lean into it or do you do you resist it?
So the next scene is Argent's garage and Chris and
Kate are preparing for the full moon, and Kate says
she doesn't like surprises, and one of the other guys
asked about Derek and Alison's mom. We love Victoria Argent
Eadie mays, do you remember her? The bright red hair?
(27:02):
She was awesome. She's so fun, she's so wacky, and
I love that take on on Alison's mom, Like you
wouldn't think like weird serial killer who bakes cookies. Um,
and she would. She would have one of these like
just sassy lines that's followed up with something very domesticated.
And so she was. She was always a lot of fun.
So yeah, So Alison cut to the lunch room, is
(27:25):
eating and Jackson joins and he says he has something
on her lip. And this is again what this cusp
in the season, And um, I would love to to
start gathering more fan questions because this is this point
in the season where you're like, is this gonna, like,
you know, implode internally within this group of friends. Um,
(27:45):
and I think Jeff had been playing with that at
that point, but you know, he gets gets the thing
off of her lip with her with his finger and
and Allison asked Jackson if he's doing okay and head
he was doing better than he thought he would be.
And he asks her what she's thinking about. She says
that she's been thinking a lot about Scott and ask
(28:05):
Jackson if she thinks she made a mistake and he says, no, Scott,
but exactly what he deserved. And Scott, you know, with
his power hearing this is a big it's big audio
episode as well, and keeps living his head into the
wall and breaks it. Do you have any tips for
when things break on camera, like you know, gags of
walls or is there a fun way you like to
(28:26):
shoot it? Yeah? I mean I guess this goes back
to the practical thing. I am definitely hands on to
go and sit with the art department the art department
and ask can we make a wall that doesn't break,
but it you know, maybe it bends or like something
that's visually different, you know, it's not just dry wall
that comes apart. Can he hit a locker that bends
in half, something that shows a lot of intensity. Can
(28:49):
we can we can we have all those things? Can
we have things that that show a lot of shrapnel
when they break? You know, windows, We don't want windows
to just punch a whole through. We wanted to shatter
and come through, you know that kind of a thing.
And can we put anything in the frame that would
make more of chaos and that's not just simply bashing
into a wall. But then again, I want to be
able to make sure that that person can hit it
(29:10):
and make it look like they really did hit it,
and we're not just kind of cutting away to a
stunt person's back at somebody's head, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
if we could pad the wall, so that's the real
So it's really, yeah, hitting it, you know that kind
of a thing. Do you have a favorite thing that
you've gotten to smash on camera? I've I've put people
through through roofs of cars to collapse them. I put
(29:32):
them you know, through big pieces of glass windows and
chandeliers and things. But yeah, anything that makes a nasty
sound and a lot of debris, I'm definitely a fan of.
But I love the gag of padding a cement floor
that you don't know is padded and somebody very delicate
hits it like a rock and you your heart stops,
like that was the real person. And they hit it
(29:52):
so hard but they're fine because it's a pass. So
it gets you and you're filming it. Yeah, I mean
every day that I put my eye to an eye
he's and I see somebody who was stunt, I always
sort of get a little nervous because nowadays people are
so good at it that it can frighten you because
it looks it looks like this person is going to
need an ambulance. But I'm sure you saw the Tom
(30:14):
Cruise motorcycle stunt. Well he's not even human anymore. Like
guy the plane thing on this that's I mean, I
don't even know how that's physically possible, but he did.
I mean, the guy is a machine. Mm hmm um.
Do you remember Spider the stunt guy? I do. Yeah, Yeah,
we got Mark, he blew up after after that first season.
(30:36):
We lost him to the to the big Marvel movies. Yeah, yeah,
we love to get Spider on. That would be amazing.
There was a lot of lacrosse scenes being shot in
this season, and a lot of lacrosse scenes in this episode.
What was your favorite memories of the lacrosse episodes? Um?
(31:00):
I liked that we focused more on the energy of
them instead of the actual play of them, because if
you were following it, it kind of gets boring to
follow an actual sport. We never had enough people to
do giant stadiums full of fans, so we sort of
made our own because if we went to one of
these high school stadiums, I mean, there's, you know, fifty
thousand people who were not going to have fifty thousand extras.
(31:21):
So we took a field and it was my idea
to make these fake stadium lights and keep the crowd low,
and we kind of blurred out the background and slammed
light at the camera so that it was always moody
and interesting. And that helped with a couple things, hide
a bunch of things, hide the scenes on a lot
of things, but also make it just about the boys
(31:41):
on the field and not about you know, everything else
that comes with going to an event at a school.
And I liked that because it made us more. It
made it more of a character piece than a sport piece.
It just happened to be the background and the idea
that they had sticks up at eye leve all time
was definitely very interesting. I think that was that was
(32:03):
Jeff's point from the get go, was he always thought
that it was cool that guys walked through school and
these lacrosse sticks to camp. Its visually interesting and it's
like cool. I don't think it's absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah,
lacrosse was not a sport that I had ever seen
in a TV show or potentially since trying to think no, no, yeah,
(32:26):
it visually was really interesting. Like you make such a
good point, like I never actually thought about that about
the sticks in the backpacks when you walked down the hallway.
Totally yeah, I don't know. It's all school cool and
the all boys school played lacrosse and the sticks you'd
see them, you know, if if you went to their
practices after school. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's totally true. I
(32:47):
never thought about that. The lights and blurring out the
background and making it also kind of a microcosm that's
just on the boys, you know, and really, um, it
makes you nervous if there's a light in your face,
and so having that sort of towards camera and then
featuring it on Scott and styles. It puts the pressure
(33:07):
on also as well to the audience member. Yeah, yeah,
that's those are those indie tricks that we had to do,
especially since we were the you know, the the small
show trying to do a very big show. We had
to come out. We were literally a very small start
trying to do a very big show. Oh, the lacrosse
scenes were a lot of fun. The action, like, we
(33:28):
definitely felt the energy, and so much of that energy
is not from the I mean, the actors are doing
our part, but it's so much of that camera movement
that I think, you know, and to the an audience member,
even an audience member in the business like you you
just enjoy the art and you forget, you know, what's
actually creating that feeling in your head. And a lot
of it was the camera. Yeah, for anybody looking for
(33:51):
any weird East eggs. We only shot lacrosse stuff from
one direction, so we set up lights. There was never
there was never a field. It was just a rectangle
with a bunch of lights. So if we had to
switch sides, we just have everybody get on the other side.
A French Yeah we're yeah, so French reverse. We just
a three wall set and that's we just had to
(34:13):
think about it while we were shooting it. I forgot
about that. Yeah, so I totally remember that now I
forgot about that. Yeah yeah, oh wow, that's yeah. The
lacrosse lacrosse I feel like you could write like a
whole chapter of just shooting lacrosse scenes on Teamable. Yeah,
that's really fun. Well on the lacrosse team. In this episode,
(34:36):
Coach Fin's dock is listening off the players for first line,
and then this is the co captain scene where Coach
says that they're switching to co captains. Now it's mccollin Jackson.
You can really feel Scott taking center stage at this
point in the season where he's quote unquote and equal
to Jackson. He's becoming a lot more intimidating with his
powers and harnessing his powers, and Jackson is not so
(34:59):
big and mighty any more. So obviously, Jackson's upset and
Scott and Styles are leaving a locker room, and Scott's
tell Styles he can smell the jealousy in the air,
and Styles asked Scott that Um says he can smell desire,
like sexual desire from Lydia Um, so Styles is really
gunning for the Lydia the Lydia's storyline, and Scott goes
(35:21):
up to Lydia de see you know, hey, do you
do you like Styles? Essentially, and basically they end up
making out, but on the low cross field, Styles asked
Scott what Lydias said and if she likes him, and
Scott says, yeah, Lydia's into him. Um. But they sort
of get caught at the end because Jackson notices that
something's on Lydia's lip and she pulls the marry out
(35:42):
and she's like, oh, how did that happen? Because her
lipstick was smudged. But again, it's it's um. It's a
bit about a character for as far as our core
group goes. UM. But Alison goes back to the house
and this is now the crossbow for Jonathan UM, and
she's like, I'm gonna get back into something I haven't
done in a while. Um. Was this your only archery
(36:03):
experience shooting archery? Or is do you have other experiences
with bows and arrows? No? That was that was definitely
the first one. I don't think I revisited its sense. Yeah,
I took it back. I just did a period piece
that it was that in like the fourteen hundred. So
we was all it was all arrows and arrows. Okay,
so not the bow part, but it was the arrow part.
(36:24):
Those are our fierce looking instruments. So yeah, especially the
one that she had, the whole compound and wearing the whatever.
It's a love Yeah. Yeah did they so when they
would shoot things next to camera? How do they do that?
When when the arrow flies past? I think on that
specific stuff, we had real draws, but we never we
(36:44):
never got to shoot anything real. I don't think. I
think we shot away from camera. Thankfully it was not Okay,
I think the actually went towards camera then, at least
not in real life like if something was if it
was thrown towards camera, you guys weren't behind camera then
I think. Also, yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't think
there ever wasn't an actual bow or an actual arrow
(37:05):
shot at a camera for a couple of reason. It's
number one, you really really wouldn't see much because they
moved so fast. It's like a real bullet, like you're
a real bullet, you know, you know the difference between
a blank and real bullet is you're not going to
see the bullet in the air. So also, if you're
shooting a real as an actor, if you're going to
shoot a real round at somebody, you're probably gonna be
nervous more and less acting if you're doing it for real, right,
(37:29):
you know, even if it's not a human there, it's
like it's a camera. It's one hundred thousand all like
cameras like that. Yeah, so it might throw you off.
But also I think we were just we're using it
as a tool so we could actually see the arrow go.
We'd made our own. But oh, I didn't know that.
I'm almost positive we did. I don't remember every getting
shot at with an arrow, Okay, okay, no, I believe you.
I think you'd remember. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, well,
(37:54):
Kate tells her that did not tell her dad, but
she tells Alison to shoot the bear, and this is
the Tay's Bear scene and Alison starts to cry or Scott,
and Alison says that she doesn't know what happened, and
that Scott said that he didn't know Derek, but then
they saw them together and this is sort of going
back to the Argent sort of debriefing of does your
(38:16):
boyfriend or potential ex boyfriend know the person were after?
Which is which is Derek Hale in the town so
secrets around the Hargent House obviously um and Alison being
a bit hesitant to protect Scott or hesitant to tell
her family what she knows about Scott and Derek's entanglements,
And at that point we cut back to Scott's house.
(38:36):
Styles walks back in the Scott's house and Scott's mom
asks Styles if Scott's okay because he doesn't want to
talk to her like he used to, and Styles says that,
you know, he has said a rough week, and Styles
his mom said he'd be careful because it's a full moon.
Dundun da lunatic obviously being the title of the episode.
But we go back up to Scott's bedroom and Styles
(38:57):
walks in and starts freaking out the way Scott's acting
and says he's acting like a serial killer and Scott's, uh,
they basically find chains and he's like, you think you're
gonna let me change you up like a dog, and
Style says no, but then grad Scott's aren't chains him up,
So we're starting to you know, best friends, not you know,
butting heads, so to speak. A lot of chains in
(39:18):
this episode. Cut to Allison picking up the bow and
starts to point it at Jackson, and basically she's starting
to think about maybe going back to her family's side
versus Scott's side, to to fight the good were we'll
fight and maybe perhaps she chose the wrong side in
the beginning by dating Scott, So you have a lot
(39:40):
of that push him pull where Styles now is bringing
him water in Scott's bedroom and Styles is yelling at
Scott because of what he did, and Scott says, Lydia
kissed him, So you're having the bro showdown of who
kissed home and Scott is yelling and telling Scott the
details of how Lydia said that she should have um
she would have done any thing he wanted. Again, was
(40:02):
Lydia possessed? We're not sure. So at that point, they're
inside the car and Alison tells Jackson there is something else.
Jackson tells her that she can trust him, and she
said that people are lying to her and it's not
just Scott, it's also her dad. And she says that
she has this weird feeling like her dad knows more
about what happened in the school than they do. Cut
back to Scott's bedroom. You're almost living like two scenes
(40:24):
in two different locations, if that makes sense, where you're
finding out information about both conversations to be having a
bigger conversation in two different scenes. So I know that's
more of an editing thing than a camera thing. But
did you have any experiences narratively playing with the moment
versus the bigger picture, if that makes sense kind of
what was happening in this episode? No, I mean in
(40:46):
a perfect world, like like if you're shooting both sides
of a cell phone conversation somebody's afar or whatever, the
perfect the perfect situation is to shoot one with either
way use the other actors. You can hear what's going
on in the other scenes. So if it's a actor
talking to another actor and cell phone, would be great
to have both of them there, even though you're shooting
one of them. But once you build one piece, it's
(41:08):
great to have that available on the next piece, so
that you can not only give the editors something more useful,
but also you can find visual cues that make them
more feel like they're all in the same room moven
though they're not in the sense that you want everybody
to feel tethered to the other person. So not only
screen direction, like if I'm on the left of the
frame looking right and I have my phone here, then
(41:30):
you would be the opposite, so that we look like
we're looking at each other visually when we cut back
and forth. But also anything that scares or you know,
makes a visual cue for somebody to look, you could
cut it to that direction and things it's always good
to if you could put a common thread through everything,
it makes it that much more active. And those are
the things that we try to do as building blocks.
(41:50):
When you know, piecing it together on set, you start
with one and then you just start layering it, layering
it so you have a good amount of footage that
all is inter related. Um. I mean, the cheap way
to do it is that you just shoot it and
you let the editors figure it out. But a lot
of times it just kind of feels simple, right going
for anything. But so do you find that you will
(42:11):
only sometimes shoot one side of each location so that
it can build that bigger conversation or do you always guys,
do you find that you and a director always want
to go back and get safety in case the editor
wants to use that, or is that the director's call. Ultimately,
it's ultimately the director's call. But in my world, more
is more. If you can give them a hundred pieces,
why not give them one really good piece and then
(42:33):
an option to get it get in and out of
that really good piece. I never want to give them
too great pieces because I want them to use a
good one. I get that as an actor, you'll go, oh, okay,
I'll do this other way, but I'm gonna really press
the other you know, press the way that I think
is stronger. So at this point we got back to
(42:58):
Scott's bedroom. Scott's still screaming and then he goes silent,
and Styles asked if he's okay, and he goes into
the room and he realized that Scott's gone, and he
runs out after him to the parking lot where Scott
runs into this parking lot and he finds Jackson Alison.
Now we've got these two pieces back into one piece.
This two sided conversation ends back up in the same
location and he finds Jackson Allison in the car and
(43:18):
he's watching and listening to them from afar and he
thinks he sees them making up, but they aren't. In
Jackson's telling Allison that he saw something on all fours
that stood up like a human, and he jumps on
Jackson and Alison's car, and Derek Hale taggles Scott and
throws him into the woods. Of course, Derek comes out
of the woodwork only when Scott's about to approach Allison again,
and it cuts to a crime scene where Styles is
(43:40):
running into his dad at the crime scene and Kayton
Chris Argenter in the car also watching, and kay asks
if the two betas that Chris saw were small. Back
to Scott's bedroom, where we see Derek bringing Scott home
and Scott says he can't do this and be with Allison,
and he asked Derek if there's a cure, and Derek said,
you have to find the wherewolf that bit you. So
(44:01):
Derek says if Scott helps him find the Alpha, he'll
help Scott kill this werewolf that bit him, and it
ends the episode. So there's a lot of back and
forth in Lunatic Mum. Do you remember the first day
on set? Do you remember, like, what are your what
are your takeaways with teen Wolf and funny stories you
(44:22):
have to tell or is there is there anything that
you want teen Wolf fans to know? Again, I was.
I was super young, and I was happy to be there,
and I was happy to be a part of this
new venture, especially with this genre and with these people.
Um and yeah, every day was a completely new indie movie.
(44:42):
And that's how I have been since. And I love
that feeling and the fact that everybody was, you know,
trying to make it as untelevision as possible was my
favorite place to be. And the directors and the producers
and the writer of course wanted the same thing. So um,
you know, I I had a big smile on my
face every day, you know. And I had pretty things
(45:03):
to point the camera apt and I had great locations
to be in and it was it was a lot
of fun looking back on it. Do you have ever
a funny moment or quirky moment that you remember in particular?
I mean, most of the things that stand out to
me the most are things like you guys like Colton
being dunked in ice water in the middle of a
(45:25):
like a glacier fed stream in the middle of sob Oh.
Do I remember that the shot coming out was beautiful. Yeah,
I mean it's one of those things where everybody talks
ahead of the time. You're like, we got to do
this one time because this kid might not get up
if we do it a second time. So um, things
like that where you see this, this amazing thing happened.
You turn your head and everybody's in parkas you know,
(45:45):
like this poor kid is in an ice bath and
everybody else is comfortable, and you're like, wow, I can't,
Like that's dedication. So I just remember a lot of
that going into it, and it rings special to me
because it's really what I remember from the first two
seasons of Teen Wolf and the Pilot, of course, is
that everybody was like all hands on deck at all times.
(46:06):
Even in the background the vendors in Georgia where we
did it was before all the sort of rush the
movie rush into Georgia, and so everybody that was there
was either a native in the movie or mostly the
commercial world, or they had just arrived there to kind
of start their career, and so everybody it was a
pretty awesome mix of new school, old school and ready
(46:29):
for anything people. That's so funny. We both we both
would look to the like everybody in front of it
and behind the camera, we would all notice the park
as it's interesting you and also know that Parker is too.
That's good to know. Now you shot you shot out
Walking Dead in Atlanta as well. I did a little
bit of season two on The Walking Dead. Yea too,
oh nice, nice way back. Have you been back to
(46:52):
Atlanta since? Yeah, I've done. I've done a couple of
other things. I did a movie last year in southern
Georgia and uh, yeah, I you know, it's it's definitely
it's gone from like, oh you're doing that in Georgia,
You're one of the few. Now it's like George's in
New York. You know. It's it's it's like, why are
we living in Los Angeles? Yeah, it's the conversation has
(47:12):
come up a few times at this house, like, yeah,
every job or two was out of town. When we
just buy we place out of town exactly exactly what's
what's what's next on the horizon for you guys. I'm
in movie world for the most part, and I just
got back the family and I just got back from Budapest.
We did a film. Yeah, it was a Yeah. The
four months in Budapest, and I love that you guys
(47:35):
travel together though. That's so nice. You can't, I mean,
people in my professional anybody in Hollywood like these things.
You go on these magic carpet rides and you just
assume that everything's gonna be the same when you get back. No,
I mean, and I learned that coming up under big
cameraman and directors. So when I was lucky enough to
get my family, I am. You know. I did one
(47:55):
job where my kid my kids are very young, or
I had one in one that was brand new, and
I went away for like two months, and it just
like it wasn't even worth me doing a movie because
it was like I was distracted all the time, all
the way. It was. So now from then on, um,
the hall's pack up and go as a Yes, so
they've been all over the world, and your wife was
(48:17):
it was a nurse in a couple episodes prior, which
we mentioned in the podcast. I was like, oh, this
is like all in the family, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. But how many kids do you have now?
I have a three year old boy and a fourteen
month old girl. Wow, congratulations, a brand new one, a
brand new ish Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they take up the
(48:37):
house very quickly. They yeah, they they outweigh us. You
you're all grown up, Jonathan Hall. I'm very happy for
you guys. That's amazing. Well, I'm glad you're enjoying Movie World.
It's a it's a really fun sand block to play in.
And yeah, teen Wolf was again like I wanted to
have you on because I do feel like so much
(48:57):
of of teen Wolf is the visual aspect of it.
And you guys built such a beautiful show. And what
were the filters? You always made us look so good.
Skin does not look like that. Oh yeah, I would
come up to you and bug you about the filters.
Do you remember this. Yeah, you had mentioned that something
we got We got very lucky, that everybody was beautiful.
That was number one. I had made the joke early
(49:19):
on them, this is going to be easy. I could.
You could put a light on the camera and just
shoot it at you guys. You still look good. So
that was number one. But also the technology was too.
We got very lucky. I had some good relations and
we started shooting the show with one of the first
cameras of that kind ever. Because I was I was
begging for you know, it wasn't going to number what
(49:39):
it was. I very first eric flex Lexo really the
very first, so we the first show to actually utilize it,
because it was still sort of beta testing while we
were doing the pilot, which is why we shot on.
In the pilot, we shot basically a glorified um like
news broadcast camera, so that shot twenty or I did
(50:00):
not know that. Yeah, it was the only thing was available.
And because of the the SAG strike or something that
happened around them that changed the rules after and everything,
we couldn't shoot film because I was a different contract,
and so we had to figure out this digital world.
And anyway, so long store of short we got. I
begged and begged and begged and begged, and I finally
(50:21):
got this camera as a beta and we were the
first one actually using it, and it helped a lot,
be as film like in the digital world. So that
helped a lot too. And then pretty people, and then
we use vintage lenses because I like vintage lenses even
back then. Oh what kind of lenses? So they were ingineers,
but they were uncoded engineers zoos. We were very very
French French zoom lenses that were big then, but what
(50:44):
I had was uncoded lenses, which is just to say
that they weren't polished in very high gloss. They had
a little bit of a of a film cast to them,
so they helped sort of fill in gaps and make
French lenses. Man, they usually will they want to look
good at all times. Ah, it's interesting. I think it's
it's important for people to know at home, there's the
base of the camera and then there's the lenses and
they don't necessarily have to be from the same company.
(51:07):
Um so you could shoot on Alexa but then use
you know, Panavision lenses. Yeah, it was a mixture of
international tools on that on that show, German, German cameras,
French lenses, British or there was tons of stuff. Well,
thank you for coming on and educating us. There's things
that I didn't remember and I'm like, oh, yeah, you
only shot the lacrosse field from one side. I forgot
(51:29):
about that. Really fun fun tricks and uh, I know,
I know the team of people are gonna love it.
They're gonna love the behind the scenes story. So thank
you for coming course, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks Jonathan, bye,
thanks for listening. Y'all follow us on Instagram at Halleback
Now Podcast, and make sure to write it's a review
and leave us five stars. We'll see you next time.
This is heller Back Now with me Holland Rowden and
I Hunt Radio podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome to heller Back Now.
I'm Holland Roden, and today on the show, we have
our first behind the scenes guest aside from Jeff Davis,
and I'm very excited to introduce Jonathan Hall, our first
(00:24):
director of photography on teen Wolf. And I think a
lot of the reason people gravitated towards the show was
it had the humor. We always were able to make
fun of ourselves. But the show is so beautiful and
you know, you made us look good. You put pretty
filters on those lenses. We'll get into some of the
technological aspects of what a DP does, and so we
(00:48):
have a we have a saying here, Jonathan That Smartness,
one of my favorite podcasts, talks about one of the hosts,
Aunts in Michigan. I think it's in Maryland and so Posey.
A few episodes it goes says, Okay, we're gonna make
our own person. It's Kimberly and Michigan. I believe Kimberly
and Michigan. This is this is for her. We're gonna explain,
We're gonna break everything down in Layman's terms, so that
(01:09):
also I can understand it as well from a DP
point of view. But welcome, Thank you so much for
coming on, Thank you for having me. Yeah, today we're
gonna be breaking down episode eight. It's called Lunatic. And
then mainly the reason I wanted to have you on
was this is the fan shot. Do you remember that
fan shot where Tyler Posey's in the shower and there's
that fan in the background behind Styles and he's having
(01:31):
this panic attack and Styles trying to talk him off
the ledge, and there's the there's the fan across the screen,
across the cameras Scott's space. Do you remember the shot too?
In fact, how did that shot get set up? I started?
One of the one of the things when you do
in television show is how do we make everything different?
It's tough to do that because it's you know, there's
(01:52):
certain amount of sets and time and everything. Um and
I believe Russell did that episode or was it Russell?
Hey Man? True? It was Tim. Okay, that makes a
lot more sense because Tim was always you know, Russell
is so out of the box, and when you're the
other director with Russell, the only way to compete is
(02:12):
to think outside the box even more, right, So I
remember specifically this device that we actually had to make
with like cutting a hole in the set and coming
up with an electric way to make a fan work
but not go to fast, not too slow. And I
remember that being a big thing. We needed to find
the perfect balance of you know, fan look but also
(02:32):
not going to make anybody go into a seizure. It
was just, you know, sometimes it would go a little
too fast. It's like, oh, how long did that shot?
Did it set up? So you guys had this, It
wasn't just an on the fly thing. You had this
made for them. Yeah. Well, I mean the cool thing
about the behind the scenes stuff for me is when
you learned that it was like something that was just
interesting but you forget, you know a little later, was
(02:55):
something that took it somebody or a group of people
a few days to figure out how to make it
subtle but work, you know. So that's that's the that's
the fun part about art is like you'd look at
a painting and you're like, oh, that's cool. It looks
like it's looks like the kind of slashed here and
slashed there and split some blue over here. But no,
it took a months or years to figure out how
the perfect balance of that and if it helped give
(03:18):
a very uncomfortable feeling the scene that was really intentioning,
I think it did. It was such a lovely, lovely shot.
I had no idea this I'm learning this that I
didn't know you. I thought this was one of these.
Usually Russell will come in not with a very detailed
shot list or in a shot list at all. And Tim,
I remember, was very organized. Yeah, he had every shot
so carefully planned out. So I'm not surprised that you
(03:39):
guys had that foresight for that episode then to to
be able to build a contraption. Yeah, it was very planned,
which was awesome, you know it was it was almost
like a you know, a completely different tempo of work
when it was from Russell. Russell's coming a lot more
rock and roll with like his back, his background and
being a little bit more you know, on the day,
seeing an opportunity and just going for it instead of
(04:01):
if he planned it all, then it would be boring
because he hates that he needs the energy at all times,
whereas Tim is very methodical, which is great for me
because like the c both creative, you know, outlooks and
it helps. Yeah. Yeah, you dped every episode, didn't you. Yeah,
the pilot and the first two seasons was me. You. So,
usually on a lot of TV shows Kimberly and Michigan,
(04:23):
you switch off, you know, you'll have another DP prepping
an episode while you're on the episode, right or is
that not the case? So? So how were you doing
this for two seasons? It was brought up very early
on if I wanted a relief DP for like every
you know, every other or every two or whatever. And
I was super young when I started on that show. Yeah,
(04:46):
I was. I mean I was some people. I was
like a year older than the cast were because you
were what mid twenties. So I did the pilot I
was twenty five. I didn't really do that young wow.
And then yeah, I mean by the time I left it,
I was only two twenty seven, which, uh, if I
was gonna I was gonna pat myself back. Was the
youngest cinematographer to two an hour series, But yeah, I
(05:08):
was trying to do it was one of them at
that point. It was super rare to be that young,
which is why it was. It still is it's still
very rare to be that young. Yeah, when I kept
my mouth chet because I was I think it was
more nervous that if somebody found out, they'd be like,
he's got kids, gotta go. That's a trope that I
think it needs to be discussed more in this business
because acting in such a young man's game and camera
(05:29):
tends to be you know, sixty seventy years old is
the average DP. It's true, you know. And so I
know a lot of camera people that that are in
their thirties and forties, and in a few in their twenties,
but mostly I know thirties and forties that still feel
like they have to hide their age or they're really
fighting their way in to DP projects in their thirties
(05:51):
and forties, and they're looked at it sort of kids.
And You're like, I'm not a kid, and I'm you know,
this is I mean, I'm holding up to have a family,
and it's it's um. It's not talked a lot about
in the business that there's a bit of an ageism,
but for against young people, not not the older people. Yeah, no,
it was it was the thing that I was definitely
I was a little nervous about so I didn't really
(06:12):
talk too much about it, but um, you know, looking
back on it, it was it was an amazing like
that was my first television endeavor. Um. I had always
been the indie guy, the indie movie world action stuf,
second unit stuff, and then I had to gotten lucky
and did a movie about a year earlier than the
pilot with Russell. It just worked out that it worked
(06:34):
out and he and I got along great, and he
called me randomly and said would you like to do
a pilot? And I said, you beat me to the punch.
That's how you got involved in De Wolf was through
Russell in the indie what was the indie called the
indy was give Him Home Alone? But Thomas Jane and
Bing Rams. Thomas Jane what an amazing actor. Yeah, it
was right before he got that show Hung Too, so
(06:56):
he was sort of, you know, he was sort of
waiting for that big break again. You know, he's always
a popular actor, but then you get that show and
it was like I couldn't get him on the phone.
Oh I love that. Well, We're going to take you
to the first few scenes of this episode, and I
want to see what you remember It starts in the woods,
and this brought in the show. Alison and Scott have
(07:16):
just broken up. They were stuck in the school all
night and you know, as a results, Alison didn't feel
like Scott really protected the team and she was quite
scared of, you know, the werewolfism that was coming out
of him. The aggression sot to lunatic. Starts with a
lot of drama amongst the core teenage crowd of our
(07:37):
our characters and Team Wolf and we're walking through the
woods and Scott and Styles. Styles just determined to get
Scott drunk because he says that's what you do when
you break up with your girlfriend. It's my job to
get you drunk. And Scott can't get drunk. And there
was a lot of action in that first the first
few scenes with the two quote kind of bully guys
walking up and Scott basically you know, scares them off,
(08:01):
and then those two bullies get taken or one of
them gets taken by the were a wolf as Scott
and Styles are able to get to the jeep. Do
you guys have technical hips of when you're shooting something
and someone gets taken or out of frame or side frame,
when you have to do a stunt that leaves a
bit of mystery at the end. Um how do you
(08:24):
approach that as a dp UM. Well, at the time
I was, I was learning a lot of stuff from
all of my action work that I've done and I
had done in Second Unit, and Tim was Tim was
very clever about any sort of in camera tricks, and
to me, that's the more powerful stuff. I mean, you
see a lot of Marble movies now that where they're
they're visual effects, and they're a little bit too unbelievable.
(08:48):
I think one of the one of the fun things,
one of the many fun things about Teen Wolf, especially
the first couple of seasons, is that we were in
between this technology were where we were a digital platform
and we were you know, it was everything was just starting.
So like, visual effects were very expensive to do still
(09:08):
for television because of the turnaround time and everything you do.
It they existed, it just that they weren't as your
iPhone couldn't do half the stuff which you can now.
So back then it was sort of easier to just
do things physical like hand pulls and things like that.
And in all fairness where I came from, I always
thought that that gave a lot bigger reaction anyway, because
if you see something that's physically happening, especially to an
(09:31):
actor getting pulled out of frame physically and aggressively, you
can relate to something like that happening to you, and
it could see a little bit more jumpy. And I
think that's the main goal that Tim definitely wanted, was
a visceral reaction. I know definitely Russell did. And those
two come from a physical world, you know, first before
visual effects. And that was one of the marks that
(09:52):
I liked about the way that it was approached on
the show was let's see if we could do it
for real. Yeah, there was a lot of practicals. Lot
you guys are all game too. I mean some of
the stuff you guys did was I would stand in
the corner and be like, they're really going to do that?
All right? Well, I mean, Posey is like Gumby, like
he is just so bendable and jumpy, and I remember,
(10:15):
you know, uh, Dylan and Tyler were able to like
park hour up the sides of the trailers, and you know,
I was always worth he to get hurt and uh
my only my only real well until the season four,
my real stunts on the show mostly consisted of running
in heels, which I do think you remember some of it,
which is incredibly hard to do in the woods or
(10:36):
an uneven ground or in blow zero temperatures. Yeah. Yeah,
oh yeah. You were there for all of the hypothermia
and the lake shots and the wet you know, wet
shirtless Jackson's and Tyler's. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I had no
idea that we were very lucky to have such a
cast that was game to do everything, and I think
that had to do a lot with the youth. You
(10:58):
guys were young, and definitely we were trained well on
that show. Do you feel like you were trained in
a certain way on Teen Wolf because you didn't have
a relief DP and the fact that, like I go
to other projects now and nothing phases me. Like I'm
trying to think if I've been phased yet. There was
what I did Escape Room in South Africa, where the
(11:19):
sets were very elaborate, and the amount of time you
would spend on those sets, you know, an escape room,
you would be several weeks in one room and a
lot of them were master shots that I had not
done on Teen Wolf yet. So you're coming to work
every day as talent, no matter what, because you're always
in these master shots and so there's no downtime. I
(11:40):
mean that's where I really applaud, Like, oh I wish
I wish people that watched entertainment, watch movies and TV
could could understand how hard a cruise schedule operates. I
mean it is fourteen to sixteen hours a day at
least at least thirteen so I guess French hours or ten.
(12:00):
But but that's that's happening a bit more where you
skip lunch Kimberly and Michigan. Um. But uh, but yeah,
the practicals were, um, we're really fun. We're really fun
and and and we were we were trained. Do you
find you were trained well in a sense like yeah,
I mean additionwise, looking looking back on it, Um, I
don't know how much I'm allowed to say this stuff,
(12:21):
but uh yeah. But Team Wolfe was the first our
drama um that was on Viacom or on MTV, And
with that came two great things. One, they didn't really
know how to handle us, so a lot of times
they just sort of the studio would just be like, okay,
just deliver us a show. Do what you gotta do.
(12:43):
Here's the money, that's all you get, you know. So
it allowed us to do a lot of things. A
lot of TV shows didn't um like the schedules that
we were able to have these giant you know, the
page counts weren't great on the you know, they weren't huge.
We shot like a movie basically. Well that I guess
is that these scripts they weren't big pages, but they
had you know, a thousand scenes in them, like we were.
(13:05):
We never laid in one place for more than two
or three pages of four pages. So it was a constant.
That's why there was company moves all the time and everything,
and that makes for great television. But we were working
on a you know, a small cable budget, very small
cable budget. Yeah, and but I mean the good thing
of that is that they left us alone and they
didn't sort of they didn't sort of demand specific things.
(13:27):
So we utilized that to the best of the filmmaking
knowledge that we did, and I think got to block
schedule a lot. We got to jump around because we
really only had serious directors and you it was Tim
Russell our two directors, and you and so it and
then Jeff So it was Basically I felt sometimes like
it was a student film that we just kind of
(13:48):
kept getting funded to keep doing because we would throw
the schedule out a lot and rearrange things as we
saw fit, and we could because it's like, oh, in
two episodes, we need this, let's go ahead and get
it now. The script is here, and that, yes, that
that I feel like was a bit more rogue than
most TV shows that I've been on. And Jeff was
(14:11):
it wasn't was incredibly game to make whatever work. Like
if it didn't quite work or we were behind schedule
and we needed to do one thing, you know, one
thing to tweak to make it easier, he would he
would be there at four o'clock in the morning writing yep.
So that was also a big help that I don't
think every TV show gets to have. And it was
(14:32):
quite collaborative. Yeah, it was, I mean it was it
was for me looking back on it, and it was
the best introduction to television as a behind the scenes
as a cameraman that they could because everybody wanted just
wanted to make a good project and they were all
one hundred percent game to do whatever was necessary. So
it was perfect. Yeah, really unique. I mean because I
(14:53):
should just I've worked on since you know, it's not
that they're not collabortive. Everyone has to be collaborate on
a set, but there everyone just kind of had more
of their position and um, there's not as much tossing
the ball. It's like the eighties make the schedule and
you follow the schedule. So so yeah, that was definitely
unique and it's cool that you coming on here. We
(15:14):
get to see behind the scenes in a whole new perspective. Um,
because I keep saying that actors are only the tip
of the iceberg, and there's you know, one hundred plus
two hundred people in these in these companies that are
these TV shows. Um. So so yeah, the practicals were
a lot of fun, and we see we see a
lot of it in this In this episode, Um, because
(15:34):
Derek Hale is missing and we have to find Derek. Um.
We go to the school and Beacon Hills is now
open back up and uh, Melissa ponsdo who else was
Melissa McCall on the show says, you know, you don't
have to go to school. I think this is about Alison,
that you're in a bad melody. It's like, I'm gonna
not a bad mind. I'm gonna get her back. Um.
(15:57):
And there's a lot of riff raff about Lydia talking
about how you know Scott should owe sus some therapy bills,
the fact that he just less about in the school
with the creature, right um uh. And then at that point,
Um Styles wants in on the action and approaches his dad,
and his dad's like, no, go take your test. There's
(16:17):
a big test at school. There's always something you always
something big going down at school if there's something big
going down in the supernatural world to Beacon Hills. So
when Scott sits down to take this test, he starts
hearing the pins cracking and the people whispering. Um, that's
fun because you you know the camera angles, get to
work with audio. How has your experience been working with
(16:40):
audio or production design? When you set up your shots, Um,
I mean they're a lifesaver. They only enhance and bad
sound can destroy. Whereas cameraman like myself, we tend to
play ourselves on a pedestals like, oh, the image is
number one has to be well. Honestly, it can be
a crappy image and have amazing sound and you get lost.
(17:04):
But the opposite way doesn't work. It could be if
it's terrible sound and it looks you know, morgeous. Right,
yeah you're out, you know, you don't care, But yeah,
it only enhances. So if you can in that in
that instance, anytime we focused on anything that was going
on in the mind of Tyler, the sound was really
(17:25):
the key to the whole thing. So all we had
to do was build the window. They built what was
coming through it. And that's I mean, listen, every team
on that show, from sound to visual effects, to color
grading to everything on the post end, everybody was again
like they were on set. Everybody was in tune and
they were in for the long haul. And I think
(17:46):
the sound on that show is I mean, it rivals
most theatrical films. Ah. And that's the one thing I
feel like, I've been acting for fifteen years and I
know very little about the sound industry, and there's this
other dimension that we take for granted, or I'll speak
for myself that I take for granted. So this one
(18:16):
was this one kind of what was one that was
out a bit out of character because like Lydia and
Scott are making out in this episode, it's almost like
we narratively went off on a bit of a tangent
like is this gonna happen? Is Lydia gonna betray Allison?
Is Jackson and Alison gonna get together? There's a few
little flirtatious hints throughout these few episodes, So it's almost
this cusp of season one narratively of you know how
(18:39):
much riff raffer we're going to get in amongst the
core group versus the drama from from Beacon Hills supernatural Arena.
So he runs out from the test and this is
the hallway scene where Styles is yelling at Scott, but
he only finds his backpack in the hallway and it
leads to the infamous locker scene that we've started this
episod it with, And that is where you built the
(19:02):
contraption for the fan. Was that your idea or was
that Tim's idea? Was that a collaborative idea? I believeber
idea Tim's idea? Had you built one before this contraption
that you I have blabored or not? Yeah? Really it was.
It was a very big tool at one point, and
we revisited it. Have you used it since I've done
(19:24):
a version of it there's always you always want to
come up with some sort of fun atmospheric element. And
sometimes you can do them with propellers, you can do
them with sheets of glass that move. We can do
them with a bunch of different things. Whether other projects
have you used them on? Just recently on a film
I did We did. You know when you're sitting in
a diner or something and cars passed by, and it's
(19:44):
not it's not their headlights, it's because it's daytime. It's
like a reflection of something. The sun kind of stripes through.
Was it kind I built a mirror that or had
I didn't build it, I had somebody built me a
mirror that did the same sort of thing, where it
would always have a different reflection, would come at a
random time while people are talking. So it felts very
alive outside in post put a bigger car traffic world
(20:08):
just helps to have. I mean, it makes those imperfections,
I think, enhance something to feel more real than just perfect,
because I think that if things are too beautiful, we
tend to think that they're fake, that they're homeark. You know,
if everything's perfectly lit, if everybody is just dazzlingly sparkly
(20:29):
and perfectly framed. It just it takes you into the
stage world a little bit more designed, and you don't
believe it as much. And one of my things, and
I'm sure Tim and Russell would agree, there's a beauty
in an imperfection. And if you can give something that
is a little bit unusual in every shot, I think
that that's just a gem. So, oh, that's lovely. Yeah,
(20:50):
there's I remember acting with them when you're in a
fire the fire the light of a fire does not
actually light your face when you're acting on camera, and
so you have the fake firelight that like, will you know,
sort of a kindle on your face, that sort of
crisp cackle, sort of crackling of the of the fire
(21:11):
that reminds me of the mirror, the mirror gag. Yeah,
it's it's interesting. Or even like a light in a
painting where I'll take for granted if it's a part
of the paintings lighters through a window. You know, there's
people through a window, and that's the painting. The people
closer to the window will have their face, you know,
more brightly lit than the people further back from the window,
(21:32):
and the painting and you just sort of think that's
how your eye catches something because that's what we're used
to seeing in real life. But the painter set that
up that way where there would be a lighter, you
know color for the face to people that were closer
to the window, a brighter color. So that's yeah, it's
a It also applies to to television as well everything. Yeah,
(21:55):
I mean that's that's why I when when you and
other actors are doing scenes too, there's also you don't
you look for the weird thing that your character might
do that is not, you know, scripted, because it's perfect,
it wouldn't be great. You know, if there's there's there's
unusual things to stand out, that's what you want. Okay, Yeah,
it's interesting. Yeah. See, these are things that people that
(22:18):
watch Team will full have a new appreciation for when
they when they look back. Um, yeah, I loved it.
It's I think season one that that fan shot was synonymous.
That's one of the first things I thought of when
I thought of when I got done shooting Season one,
we got to watch it. Um, it was one of
the creepiest scenes. I thought it was great to make
your protagonists look mean or scary. It was great. So
(22:39):
Styles gives Scott the inhaler to feel better in the
locker room scene, and he does start to feel better,
and Scott says that he looked at Alison and he
felt like that someone had hit him with a hammer,
and he says he can't stop thinking about her, and
Styles reminds him that her dad is a werewolf hunter,
and uh says. Scott says, well, I could just I
feel everyone emotions. Um, he can hear everything, and Styles
(23:03):
says it's gonna be a full moon and that they're
gonna have to lock him in a room so that
he doesn't hurt anybody. And Scott said they had to
do more than lock him in a room because he
thinks he might kill someone. Did were you a fan
of Supernatural growing up? And that's totally okay if he
were not. I had seen a bunch, but it was
it was not the show that I watched often. No,
(23:27):
those people sense so yeah, right, right right? But when
when you grew up, what were the shows you like
to watch? Like? Were they were they science fiction? Were they?
Or did you watch movies? I did watch primarily movies. However,
I did catch the last bit of Smallville. It was
when it was on and then Yeah, I mean mostly
it was movies. All the great television was happening when
(23:47):
I was in college. All that sort of great indie
film turn television was happening when I was in college.
And when I was in college, it was it was
either school or we were going to a film, you know,
at night. It wasn't a lot of televisience time during that.
But looking back on it now that that time for
television was such a golden age. Right before I had
done that show, I mean, even things like The West Wing,
(24:09):
you start watching it and you're like, these people are incredible,
Like he Rose, He Rose was supernatural, I guess too,
and that the show was amazing. Twenty four was amazing.
I did catch some of twenty four because I ended
up working on it a little bit. And those are
shows where they just sat down in the boardroom one
day and they're like, what if we just made a
really cool show, Like that's a genius idea, we should
(24:30):
do that. It was like a really cool show. Yeah, Yeah,
it was really good and people are talented and it
was just fun to watch. Yeah, He's onto something. Did
you was there anything in particular, you set up for
camera because it was a warawolf show that you would
have not set up otherwise, or did you try to
look at it like this is a normal run of
the Mill show and it happens to be a warreawolf show. No,
(24:51):
I just don't know if it was strustful, if it
was Jeff. It was probably Jeff because it was super
early on. But one of the first things when we
were sitting down at a at a meeting before before
we even shout the pilot is I read the script
and Russell and I had just did that film together,
and I was My tendency was to be very It
was always to be very noir, very sort of moody
as a as a shooter. And when I got to
(25:14):
the meeting after reading the script, there was I was
nervous of what people would say because you know, the
on the script it could go one of two ways.
It could go very wye and very polished and very
you know, everybody looks great and you can just do
a fun, small bill version of it, or you could
go really crazy with it. And somebody said, I want
this to be like Lost Boys, and I immediately yeah,
(25:36):
like I got this. This is awesome. Yes, it's it's
it's cold, it's moody, it's intense, it's scary, it's got
wide angle lenses, close, long lenses back like I got
it in the minute I heard that, I was, I was.
I knew that everybody was on the same page. You
and Jeff sank up at that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
because that was what I was thinking. I just didn't
know what, you know. The only thing at the time
(25:58):
that I could reference film wise was like, I don't
know Twilight, but Twilight was on that border of like
it was maybe's you know, and yeah, and then he
said Lost Boys in like absolutely that was That's a
perfect reference. Yeah. It had a real grit and like
just scrappiness to season one and no real like swing
of the pendulum, like a lot of just a very
(26:20):
fun energy and a very scrappy energy at the same time.
When I would look at you guys like um scheming
behind the camera, it was like they're up to something,
and it was always fun to see what you guys
are doing and building supernatural. A lot of us haven't
come from that. Even Jeff had it, you know, he
had done Criminal Minds it was such a different genre,
(26:40):
so to approach it, like you're saying, you know, do
you lean into it or do you do you resist it?
So the next scene is Argent's garage and Chris and
Kate are preparing for the full moon, and Kate says
she doesn't like surprises, and one of the other guys
asked about Derek and Alison's mom. We love Victoria Argent
Eadie mays, do you remember her? The bright red hair?
(27:02):
She was awesome. She's so fun, she's so wacky, and
I love that take on on Alison's mom, Like you
wouldn't think like weird serial killer who bakes cookies. Um,
and she would. She would have one of these like
just sassy lines that's followed up with something very domesticated.
And so she was. She was always a lot of fun.
So yeah, So Alison cut to the lunch room, is
(27:25):
eating and Jackson joins and he says he has something
on her lip. And this is again what this cusp
in the season, And um, I would love to to
start gathering more fan questions because this is this point
in the season where you're like, is this gonna, like,
you know, implode internally within this group of friends. Um,
(27:45):
and I think Jeff had been playing with that at
that point, but you know, he gets gets the thing
off of her lip with her with his finger and
and Allison asked Jackson if he's doing okay and head
he was doing better than he thought he would be.
And he asks her what she's thinking about. She says
that she's been thinking a lot about Scott and ask
(28:05):
Jackson if she thinks she made a mistake and he says, no, Scott,
but exactly what he deserved. And Scott, you know, with
his power hearing this is a big it's big audio
episode as well, and keeps living his head into the
wall and breaks it. Do you have any tips for
when things break on camera, like you know, gags of
walls or is there a fun way you like to
(28:26):
shoot it? Yeah? I mean I guess this goes back
to the practical thing. I am definitely hands on to
go and sit with the art department the art department
and ask can we make a wall that doesn't break,
but it you know, maybe it bends or like something
that's visually different, you know, it's not just dry wall
that comes apart. Can he hit a locker that bends
in half, something that shows a lot of intensity. Can
(28:49):
we can we can we have all those things? Can
we have things that that show a lot of shrapnel
when they break? You know, windows, We don't want windows
to just punch a whole through. We wanted to shatter
and come through, you know that kind of a thing.
And can we put anything in the frame that would
make more of chaos and that's not just simply bashing
into a wall. But then again, I want to be
able to make sure that that person can hit it
(29:10):
and make it look like they really did hit it,
and we're not just kind of cutting away to a
stunt person's back at somebody's head, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
if we could pad the wall, so that's the real
So it's really, yeah, hitting it, you know that kind
of a thing. Do you have a favorite thing that
you've gotten to smash on camera? I've I've put people
through through roofs of cars to collapse them. I put
(29:32):
them you know, through big pieces of glass windows and
chandeliers and things. But yeah, anything that makes a nasty
sound and a lot of debris, I'm definitely a fan of.
But I love the gag of padding a cement floor
that you don't know is padded and somebody very delicate
hits it like a rock and you your heart stops,
like that was the real person. And they hit it
(29:52):
so hard but they're fine because it's a pass. So
it gets you and you're filming it. Yeah, I mean
every day that I put my eye to an eye
he's and I see somebody who was stunt, I always
sort of get a little nervous because nowadays people are
so good at it that it can frighten you because
it looks it looks like this person is going to
need an ambulance. But I'm sure you saw the Tom
(30:14):
Cruise motorcycle stunt. Well he's not even human anymore. Like
guy the plane thing on this that's I mean, I
don't even know how that's physically possible, but he did.
I mean, the guy is a machine. Mm hmm um.
Do you remember Spider the stunt guy? I do. Yeah, Yeah,
we got Mark, he blew up after after that first season.
(30:36):
We lost him to the to the big Marvel movies. Yeah, yeah,
we love to get Spider on. That would be amazing.
There was a lot of lacrosse scenes being shot in
this season, and a lot of lacrosse scenes in this episode.
What was your favorite memories of the lacrosse episodes? Um?
(31:00):
I liked that we focused more on the energy of
them instead of the actual play of them, because if
you were following it, it kind of gets boring to
follow an actual sport. We never had enough people to
do giant stadiums full of fans, so we sort of
made our own because if we went to one of
these high school stadiums, I mean, there's, you know, fifty
thousand people who were not going to have fifty thousand extras.
(31:21):
So we took a field and it was my idea
to make these fake stadium lights and keep the crowd low,
and we kind of blurred out the background and slammed
light at the camera so that it was always moody
and interesting. And that helped with a couple things, hide
a bunch of things, hide the scenes on a lot
of things, but also make it just about the boys
(31:41):
on the field and not about you know, everything else
that comes with going to an event at a school.
And I liked that because it made us more. It
made it more of a character piece than a sport piece.
It just happened to be the background and the idea
that they had sticks up at eye leve all time
was definitely very interesting. I think that was that was
(32:03):
Jeff's point from the get go, was he always thought
that it was cool that guys walked through school and
these lacrosse sticks to camp. Its visually interesting and it's
like cool. I don't think it's absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah,
lacrosse was not a sport that I had ever seen
in a TV show or potentially since trying to think no, no, yeah,
(32:26):
it visually was really interesting. Like you make such a
good point, like I never actually thought about that about
the sticks in the backpacks when you walked down the hallway.
Totally yeah, I don't know. It's all school cool and
the all boys school played lacrosse and the sticks you'd
see them, you know, if if you went to their
practices after school. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's totally true. I
(32:47):
never thought about that. The lights and blurring out the
background and making it also kind of a microcosm that's
just on the boys, you know, and really, um, it
makes you nervous if there's a light in your face,
and so having that sort of towards camera and then
featuring it on Scott and styles. It puts the pressure
(33:07):
on also as well to the audience member. Yeah, yeah,
that's those are those indie tricks that we had to do,
especially since we were the you know, the the small
show trying to do a very big show. We had
to come out. We were literally a very small start
trying to do a very big show. Oh, the lacrosse
scenes were a lot of fun. The action, like, we
(33:28):
definitely felt the energy, and so much of that energy
is not from the I mean, the actors are doing
our part, but it's so much of that camera movement
that I think, you know, and to the an audience member,
even an audience member in the business like you you
just enjoy the art and you forget, you know, what's
actually creating that feeling in your head. And a lot
of it was the camera. Yeah, for anybody looking for
(33:51):
any weird East eggs. We only shot lacrosse stuff from
one direction, so we set up lights. There was never
there was never a field. It was just a rectangle
with a bunch of lights. So if we had to
switch sides, we just have everybody get on the other side.
A French Yeah we're yeah, so French reverse. We just
a three wall set and that's we just had to
(34:13):
think about it while we were shooting it. I forgot
about that. Yeah, so I totally remember that now I
forgot about that. Yeah yeah, oh wow, that's yeah. The
lacrosse lacrosse I feel like you could write like a
whole chapter of just shooting lacrosse scenes on Teamable. Yeah,
that's really fun. Well on the lacrosse team. In this episode,
(34:36):
Coach Fin's dock is listening off the players for first line,
and then this is the co captain scene where Coach
says that they're switching to co captains. Now it's mccollin Jackson.
You can really feel Scott taking center stage at this
point in the season where he's quote unquote and equal
to Jackson. He's becoming a lot more intimidating with his
powers and harnessing his powers, and Jackson is not so
(34:59):
big and mighty any more. So obviously, Jackson's upset and
Scott and Styles are leaving a locker room, and Scott's
tell Styles he can smell the jealousy in the air,
and Styles asked Scott that Um says he can smell desire,
like sexual desire from Lydia Um, so Styles is really
gunning for the Lydia the Lydia's storyline, and Scott goes
(35:21):
up to Lydia de see you know, hey, do you
do you like Styles? Essentially, and basically they end up
making out, but on the low cross field, Styles asked
Scott what Lydias said and if she likes him, and
Scott says, yeah, Lydia's into him. Um. But they sort
of get caught at the end because Jackson notices that
something's on Lydia's lip and she pulls the marry out
(35:42):
and she's like, oh, how did that happen? Because her
lipstick was smudged. But again, it's it's um. It's a
bit about a character for as far as our core
group goes. UM. But Alison goes back to the house
and this is now the crossbow for Jonathan UM, and
she's like, I'm gonna get back into something I haven't
done in a while. Um. Was this your only archery
(36:03):
experience shooting archery? Or is do you have other experiences
with bows and arrows? No? That was that was definitely
the first one. I don't think I revisited its sense. Yeah,
I took it back. I just did a period piece
that it was that in like the fourteen hundred. So
we was all it was all arrows and arrows. Okay,
so not the bow part, but it was the arrow part.
(36:24):
Those are our fierce looking instruments. So yeah, especially the
one that she had, the whole compound and wearing the whatever.
It's a love Yeah. Yeah did they so when they
would shoot things next to camera? How do they do that?
When when the arrow flies past? I think on that
specific stuff, we had real draws, but we never we
(36:44):
never got to shoot anything real. I don't think. I
think we shot away from camera. Thankfully it was not Okay,
I think the actually went towards camera then, at least
not in real life like if something was if it
was thrown towards camera, you guys weren't behind camera then
I think. Also, yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't think
there ever wasn't an actual bow or an actual arrow
(37:05):
shot at a camera for a couple of reason. It's
number one, you really really wouldn't see much because they
moved so fast. It's like a real bullet, like you're
a real bullet, you know, you know the difference between
a blank and real bullet is you're not going to
see the bullet in the air. So also, if you're
shooting a real as an actor, if you're going to
shoot a real round at somebody, you're probably gonna be
nervous more and less acting if you're doing it for real, right,
(37:29):
you know, even if it's not a human there, it's
like it's a camera. It's one hundred thousand all like
cameras like that. Yeah, so it might throw you off.
But also I think we were just we're using it
as a tool so we could actually see the arrow go.
We'd made our own. But oh, I didn't know that.
I'm almost positive we did. I don't remember every getting
shot at with an arrow, Okay, okay, no, I believe you.
I think you'd remember. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, well,
(37:54):
Kate tells her that did not tell her dad, but
she tells Alison to shoot the bear, and this is
the Tay's Bear scene and Alison starts to cry or Scott,
and Alison says that she doesn't know what happened, and
that Scott said that he didn't know Derek, but then
they saw them together and this is sort of going
back to the Argent sort of debriefing of does your
(38:16):
boyfriend or potential ex boyfriend know the person were after?
Which is which is Derek Hale in the town so
secrets around the Hargent House obviously um and Alison being
a bit hesitant to protect Scott or hesitant to tell
her family what she knows about Scott and Derek's entanglements,
And at that point we cut back to Scott's house.
(38:36):
Styles walks back in the Scott's house and Scott's mom
asks Styles if Scott's okay because he doesn't want to
talk to her like he used to, and Styles says that,
you know, he has said a rough week, and Styles
his mom said he'd be careful because it's a full moon.
Dundun da lunatic obviously being the title of the episode.
But we go back up to Scott's bedroom and Styles
(38:57):
walks in and starts freaking out the way Scott's acting
and says he's acting like a serial killer and Scott's, uh,
they basically find chains and he's like, you think you're
gonna let me change you up like a dog, and
Style says no, but then grad Scott's aren't chains him up,
So we're starting to you know, best friends, not you know,
butting heads, so to speak. A lot of chains in
(39:18):
this episode. Cut to Allison picking up the bow and
starts to point it at Jackson, and basically she's starting
to think about maybe going back to her family's side
versus Scott's side, to to fight the good were we'll
fight and maybe perhaps she chose the wrong side in
the beginning by dating Scott, So you have a lot
(39:40):
of that push him pull where Styles now is bringing
him water in Scott's bedroom and Styles is yelling at
Scott because of what he did, and Scott says, Lydia
kissed him, So you're having the bro showdown of who
kissed home and Scott is yelling and telling Scott the
details of how Lydia said that she should have um
she would have done any thing he wanted. Again, was
(40:02):
Lydia possessed? We're not sure. So at that point, they're
inside the car and Alison tells Jackson there is something else.
Jackson tells her that she can trust him, and she
said that people are lying to her and it's not
just Scott, it's also her dad. And she says that
she has this weird feeling like her dad knows more
about what happened in the school than they do. Cut
back to Scott's bedroom. You're almost living like two scenes
(40:24):
in two different locations, if that makes sense, where you're
finding out information about both conversations to be having a
bigger conversation in two different scenes. So I know that's
more of an editing thing than a camera thing. But
did you have any experiences narratively playing with the moment
versus the bigger picture, if that makes sense kind of
what was happening in this episode? No, I mean in
(40:46):
a perfect world, like like if you're shooting both sides
of a cell phone conversation somebody's afar or whatever, the
perfect the perfect situation is to shoot one with either
way use the other actors. You can hear what's going
on in the other scenes. So if it's a actor
talking to another actor and cell phone, would be great
to have both of them there, even though you're shooting
one of them. But once you build one piece, it's
(41:08):
great to have that available on the next piece, so
that you can not only give the editors something more useful,
but also you can find visual cues that make them
more feel like they're all in the same room moven
though they're not in the sense that you want everybody
to feel tethered to the other person. So not only
screen direction, like if I'm on the left of the
frame looking right and I have my phone here, then
(41:30):
you would be the opposite, so that we look like
we're looking at each other visually when we cut back
and forth. But also anything that scares or you know,
makes a visual cue for somebody to look, you could
cut it to that direction and things it's always good
to if you could put a common thread through everything,
it makes it that much more active. And those are
the things that we try to do as building blocks.
(41:50):
When you know, piecing it together on set, you start
with one and then you just start layering it, layering
it so you have a good amount of footage that
all is inter related. Um. I mean, the cheap way
to do it is that you just shoot it and
you let the editors figure it out. But a lot
of times it just kind of feels simple, right going
for anything. But so do you find that you will
(42:11):
only sometimes shoot one side of each location so that
it can build that bigger conversation or do you always guys,
do you find that you and a director always want
to go back and get safety in case the editor
wants to use that, or is that the director's call. Ultimately,
it's ultimately the director's call. But in my world, more
is more. If you can give them a hundred pieces,
why not give them one really good piece and then
(42:33):
an option to get it get in and out of
that really good piece. I never want to give them
too great pieces because I want them to use a
good one. I get that as an actor, you'll go, oh, okay,
I'll do this other way, but I'm gonna really press
the other you know, press the way that I think
is stronger. So at this point we got back to
(42:58):
Scott's bedroom. Scott's still screaming and then he goes silent,
and Styles asked if he's okay, and he goes into
the room and he realized that Scott's gone, and he
runs out after him to the parking lot where Scott
runs into this parking lot and he finds Jackson Alison.
Now we've got these two pieces back into one piece.
This two sided conversation ends back up in the same
location and he finds Jackson Allison in the car and
(43:18):
he's watching and listening to them from afar and he
thinks he sees them making up, but they aren't. In
Jackson's telling Allison that he saw something on all fours
that stood up like a human, and he jumps on
Jackson and Alison's car, and Derek Hale taggles Scott and
throws him into the woods. Of course, Derek comes out
of the woodwork only when Scott's about to approach Allison again,
and it cuts to a crime scene where Styles is
(43:40):
running into his dad at the crime scene and Kayton
Chris Argenter in the car also watching, and kay asks
if the two betas that Chris saw were small. Back
to Scott's bedroom, where we see Derek bringing Scott home
and Scott says he can't do this and be with Allison,
and he asked Derek if there's a cure, and Derek said,
you have to find the wherewolf that bit you. So
(44:01):
Derek says if Scott helps him find the Alpha, he'll
help Scott kill this werewolf that bit him, and it
ends the episode. So there's a lot of back and
forth in Lunatic Mum. Do you remember the first day
on set? Do you remember, like, what are your what
are your takeaways with teen Wolf and funny stories you
(44:22):
have to tell or is there is there anything that
you want teen Wolf fans to know? Again, I was.
I was super young, and I was happy to be there,
and I was happy to be a part of this
new venture, especially with this genre and with these people.
Um and yeah, every day was a completely new indie movie.
(44:42):
And that's how I have been since. And I love
that feeling and the fact that everybody was, you know,
trying to make it as untelevision as possible was my
favorite place to be. And the directors and the producers
and the writer of course wanted the same thing. So um,
you know, I I had a big smile on my
face every day, you know. And I had pretty things
(45:03):
to point the camera apt and I had great locations
to be in and it was it was a lot
of fun looking back on it. Do you have ever
a funny moment or quirky moment that you remember in particular?
I mean, most of the things that stand out to
me the most are things like you guys like Colton
being dunked in ice water in the middle of a
(45:25):
like a glacier fed stream in the middle of sob Oh.
Do I remember that the shot coming out was beautiful. Yeah,
I mean it's one of those things where everybody talks
ahead of the time. You're like, we got to do
this one time because this kid might not get up
if we do it a second time. So um, things
like that where you see this, this amazing thing happened.
You turn your head and everybody's in parkas you know,
(45:45):
like this poor kid is in an ice bath and
everybody else is comfortable, and you're like, wow, I can't,
Like that's dedication. So I just remember a lot of
that going into it, and it rings special to me
because it's really what I remember from the first two
seasons of Teen Wolf and the Pilot, of course, is
that everybody was like all hands on deck at all times.
(46:06):
Even in the background the vendors in Georgia where we
did it was before all the sort of rush the
movie rush into Georgia, and so everybody that was there
was either a native in the movie or mostly the
commercial world, or they had just arrived there to kind
of start their career, and so everybody it was a
pretty awesome mix of new school, old school and ready
(46:29):
for anything people. That's so funny. We both we both
would look to the like everybody in front of it
and behind the camera, we would all notice the park
as it's interesting you and also know that Parker is too.
That's good to know. Now you shot you shot out
Walking Dead in Atlanta as well. I did a little
bit of season two on The Walking Dead. Yea too,
oh nice, nice way back. Have you been back to
(46:52):
Atlanta since? Yeah, I've done. I've done a couple of
other things. I did a movie last year in southern
Georgia and uh, yeah, I you know, it's it's definitely
it's gone from like, oh you're doing that in Georgia,
You're one of the few. Now it's like George's in
New York. You know. It's it's it's like, why are
we living in Los Angeles? Yeah, it's the conversation has
(47:12):
come up a few times at this house, like, yeah,
every job or two was out of town. When we
just buy we place out of town exactly exactly what's
what's what's next on the horizon for you guys. I'm
in movie world for the most part, and I just
got back the family and I just got back from Budapest.
We did a film. Yeah, it was a Yeah. The
four months in Budapest, and I love that you guys
(47:35):
travel together though. That's so nice. You can't, I mean,
people in my professional anybody in Hollywood like these things.
You go on these magic carpet rides and you just
assume that everything's gonna be the same when you get back. No,
I mean, and I learned that coming up under big
cameraman and directors. So when I was lucky enough to
get my family, I am. You know. I did one
(47:55):
job where my kid my kids are very young, or
I had one in one that was brand new, and
I went away for like two months, and it just
like it wasn't even worth me doing a movie because
it was like I was distracted all the time, all
the way. It was. So now from then on, um,
the hall's pack up and go as a Yes, so
they've been all over the world, and your wife was
(48:17):
it was a nurse in a couple episodes prior, which
we mentioned in the podcast. I was like, oh, this
is like all in the family, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. But how many kids do you have now?
I have a three year old boy and a fourteen
month old girl. Wow, congratulations, a brand new one, a
brand new ish Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they take up the
(48:37):
house very quickly. They yeah, they they outweigh us. You
you're all grown up, Jonathan Hall. I'm very happy for
you guys. That's amazing. Well, I'm glad you're enjoying Movie World.
It's a it's a really fun sand block to play in.
And yeah, teen Wolf was again like I wanted to
have you on because I do feel like so much
(48:57):
of of teen Wolf is the visual aspect of it.
And you guys built such a beautiful show. And what
were the filters? You always made us look so good.
Skin does not look like that. Oh yeah, I would
come up to you and bug you about the filters.
Do you remember this. Yeah, you had mentioned that something
we got We got very lucky, that everybody was beautiful.
That was number one. I had made the joke early
(49:19):
on them, this is going to be easy. I could.
You could put a light on the camera and just
shoot it at you guys. You still look good. So
that was number one. But also the technology was too.
We got very lucky. I had some good relations and
we started shooting the show with one of the first
cameras of that kind ever. Because I was I was
begging for you know, it wasn't going to number what
(49:39):
it was. I very first eric flex Lexo really the
very first, so we the first show to actually utilize it,
because it was still sort of beta testing while we
were doing the pilot, which is why we shot on.
In the pilot, we shot basically a glorified um like
news broadcast camera, so that shot twenty or I did
(50:00):
not know that. Yeah, it was the only thing was available.
And because of the the SAG strike or something that
happened around them that changed the rules after and everything,
we couldn't shoot film because I was a different contract,
and so we had to figure out this digital world.
And anyway, so long store of short we got. I
begged and begged and begged and begged, and I finally
(50:21):
got this camera as a beta and we were the
first one actually using it, and it helped a lot,
be as film like in the digital world. So that
helped a lot too. And then pretty people, and then
we use vintage lenses because I like vintage lenses even
back then. Oh what kind of lenses? So they were ingineers,
but they were uncoded engineers zoos. We were very very
French French zoom lenses that were big then, but what
(50:44):
I had was uncoded lenses, which is just to say
that they weren't polished in very high gloss. They had
a little bit of a of a film cast to them,
so they helped sort of fill in gaps and make
French lenses. Man, they usually will they want to look
good at all times. Ah, it's interesting. I think it's
it's important for people to know at home, there's the
base of the camera and then there's the lenses and
they don't necessarily have to be from the same company.
(51:07):
Um so you could shoot on Alexa but then use
you know, Panavision lenses. Yeah, it was a mixture of
international tools on that on that show, German, German cameras,
French lenses, British or there was tons of stuff. Well,
thank you for coming on and educating us. There's things
that I didn't remember and I'm like, oh, yeah, you
only shot the lacrosse field from one side. I forgot
(51:29):
about that. Really fun fun tricks and uh, I know,
I know the team of people are gonna love it.
They're gonna love the behind the scenes story. So thank
you for coming course, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks Jonathan, bye,
thanks for listening. Y'all follow us on Instagram at Halleback
Now Podcast, and make sure to write it's a review
and leave us five stars. We'll see you next time.
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