January 9, 2025 • 22 mins
Eva and Maite take a dive into the history of raw fish consumption from ancient Peru and Japan and its possible introductions to Mexico. They explore how ceviche developed into the dish we love today thanks to Japanese immigration to Peru which led to the development of the country’s Nikkei cuisine.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Eva Longoria and I am my demeracon
and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores
our past and present through food.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
So make yourself at home, even brichel. We have talked
a lot about meat. I'm a big meat eater. We've
talked about chicken, fried steak, cadmia, sada.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We've covered the hot dog, barbecue, barbacor.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It is time to talk about sevice.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Peruvians are the originators of sevite, but Mexicans take civi
ta very seriously too.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Today's episodes all about sevice. We've never discussed raw fish.
I mean, have we discussed fish in general? I feel
like this is roundbreaking for us. We haven't talked about
fish at all. We've talked a lot about meat and
a lot about sweets. The communities have eaten raw fish
(01:07):
and raw meat around the world for centuries. Well, every
time I eat sevicia, it's called Peruvian savichi, but I
eat it all the time in Mexico, So I feel like,
are there different versions? Does it originate in pdu.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It does originate in Peru, but Mexico has regional sevicha's
as well. But this idea, this consumption of raw meat
has been practiced in various cultures around the world for
thousands of years, and so I think it's super interesting
to see these similar customs springing up in different parts
of the world and just shows how people are just
(01:44):
trying to figure out how to survive.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right, So, like raw meat and fish like raw meat,
raw fish were a paleo diet, right, I mean technically
Paleolithic era before before humans learned how to cook technically.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Even like Eskimo's consumed l well meat and Native Americans
consumed raw buffalo.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Meat raw are we saying are we saying like they
dried it or or raw like like sashimi.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Raw like sashimi exactly like ra ra like rara, like
like tar tar ra ra. You know, ra la ra.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So historically, who ate the first sliced raw fish? It
must be Asia.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
No, So the first recorded evidence dates to China around
A twenty three BC. And so this sort of practice
of eating sliced raw fish was popular, especially at banquets
for the nobility. But after that period records of eating
raw fish are pretty scarce, and it's probably because diners
(02:51):
were getting sick, so they were linking this consumption of
raw fish to diseases. So we kind of stuck seeing it.
And we start seeing it again in Japan around the
eighth century, so centuries later, and we start seeing thish sashimi,
so sashimi. The word sashimi literally translates to sliced meat,
(03:15):
and it became super popular around the seventeenth century during
the Edo period in Japan, which is a super interesting
period when Japan was basically cut off from the rest
of the Western world for about two hundred and fifty
years and sort of Japanese food and a lot of
things Japanese really developed during this time.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So so like sixteen hundred, sixteen hundred eight to the
eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, sixteen oh three to eighteen sixty eight is when
that happened. And so this was possible because Japan has
so much fish, right, just the sort of abundant fish
that's suitable for consumption, and also the mass production of
soy sauce. Sauce reduced the sort of fishy smell of
the fish and it enhanced its flavor.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So wait, so soy sauce was invented specifically for sashimi.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Not specifically for sashimi, because but they were making soy sauce,
you know, for seasoning for food, and they started adding it.
They just realized, oh, this really just makes.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It taste better. And so they used all the fish, right, snapper, tuna, yellowtail,
amber jack, like, there was no fish that was not
used exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
They used a lot of fish, and they just have
abundant of freshwater fish. But on the other side of
the world around the same time or even before, for
thousands of years, we have Peruvians, specifically the Macha culture
that's even pre inca culture also eating raw fish. So
(04:52):
I love this idea of just sort of similar customs. Yeah,
Machini seviche emerging on opposite sides of the world at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, but those those two worlds would eventually meet through immigration.
In Tokyo, you're getting freshwater fish, what are you getting
in other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So Peru has this long Pacific coastline, so we also
have these fresh sea bass and soul and red snapper,
and that has been caught there for centuries. But it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You can't just eat like, yeah, you can't just eat
like any raw fish, right, I mean like I wouldn't.
I wouldn't fish out of the rio grand and eat
that raw right.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, you would die. Please don't please don't, Yeah, don't
do that. Please don't do that. Not all species of
fish are suitable for raw consumption, right. And also because
some bodies of waters are so you know, polluted, and
so a lot like a lot of fish can and
shoffish can contain parasites or bacteria. When we see sushi
(05:54):
grade fish today, tuna and salmon and yettletail and sea bass,
that is a term use to describe the fish that's
considered safe to eat raw. It's a high quality fish
that's been handled and processed to ensure freshness, and it's
typically caught quickly, bled and then gut it and iced
(06:16):
and so other like fish like salmon that are known
to contain parasites are frozen at zero degrees fahrenheit for
seven days or flash frozen super quickly for about fifteen hours.
And so in the US, when we buy sushi grade fish,
most of this fish has been flash frozen.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, So if you make sevicha like when I make
sevich at home, I get sushi grade, I am like,
I want to make sure that the fish is properly
ready to be consumed raw.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely, And if you're going to make it, you know,
anybody listening, if you're going to make rough fish, go
to reputable fishmonger and tell them that you're going to
eat it raw.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
To so Mexico, like, where does Mexico come in? Because
I feel like Peruvians obviously introduced this to Mexico when well,
there are.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Different theories, right, So one theory is that, you know,
Peruvians when when the Manila Galleons were coming to Mexico,
and we talked about this a little bit in our
Mercalo's episode, they would land and there would be these
big fairs for like a month and a half, and
Peruvians would go to a capulo to to buy stuff
to buy these luxury girls coming from Asia. So maybe
(07:33):
they brought this tradition with them. Another theory is that
maybe this tradition was brought directly from the Philippines.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh oh again, because can we talk about can we
please talk about water chili like to me feels more Mexican.
Do they have awacina in Peru or do they have
technically the evolution of this in each of For Mexico,
it's technically it's basically I watch Mexican awa Chile and
(08:04):
Peruvian tiratos are basically the Mexican and the Peruvian sashimis
so because when we think of Chile, you see.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It mostly in the northern coast of so Noda. It's
also popular just along the coastal areas. And it's definitely
distinckling Mexican because it's super spicy, right, And titos is
sort of the Peruvian version, and they use ahi, which
is the Peruvian word for Chile, and let which is
tiger's milk, which is like a spicy citrus based, you know, marinate.
(08:39):
But it's the the Latin American version of sashimi just
sliced rough why.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Chile with sliced raw shrimp. That's like the famous one
here in Mexico. Like if you go to pot if
you got a cabo, you know, any of those vacation spots,
if you order normally, it comes with wrong with shrimp tue.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know. I've also had a really good
one with ross scallophous.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You're fancy, you're bougie, so bougie, all right. When we
come back, we're going to dive into the history of
Peruvian Sevici.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We talked about Peru during our potato episode and discussed
how scientific these ancient communities were when it came to agriculture. Well,
the history of Cevicha there is just as rich. So
don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I feel like Cevicha is Peru's most emblematic dish.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So in twenty twenty three, UNESCO added Peru Sevice and
the culture surrounding Cevicha to its Intangible Cultural Heritage list,
and so yeah, the importance of this dish was recognized
by UNESCO. So this is why it's the most emblematic dish.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And they have such a long coastline that they must
have a close relation with the ocean and obviously used
it to survive and thrive in free Colombian times.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
They had to absolutely in the roots of modern Dcevita
date to the Moche, a civilization that thrived in the
northern coast from the first through eighth century, and their
society was made up of these warrior priest rulers, weavers,
metal spiths, potters, farmers, fishermen, and they used these sophisticated
(10:31):
irrigation techniques to turn desert into farmland. They built canals
and reservoirs, and they supported a population of about twenty
five thousand, which is really incredible. But they left these
numerous artifacts behind depicting fishing scenes, and some of them
have evidence of these boats made out of reeds, and
(10:53):
they developed special tools for fishing. So the Moche would
catch their fish and marinated in dumbo, which is a
really tart acidic fruit that's kind of similar to passion
fruit that's native to South America. And so there's evidence
that they were doing this about two thousand years ago,
(11:17):
and then the Inca, you know, that came later. They
also developed these advanced techniques for fishing the use of
nuts and harpoons and fish traps. And this connection between
the Inca and pre Inca cultures and the ocean is
evident again in their art and their mythology. The Inca
goddess Mamcocha, which is the mother sea, was the guardian
(11:40):
of sailors and fishermen and was worshiped to ensure calm
waters and good fishing. She was also believed to protect
marine life and keep it healthy and fertile. Wow, so yeah,
it's amazing. And so there's pottery and textiles with fish
and sea creatures. So they were definitely a seafaring of
(12:04):
seafood eating population.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So when Spaniards landed, they must have like thought they
hit the jackpot. They were like what is this dish?
Because they landed later. They landed later in Bedter than Mexico.
But when Spanish colonizers landed in Peru, how did they
influence I guess this particular fish marinated you know in
(12:28):
Peruvian chili's with the seaweed and the dumbo, Like, how
did how did it start to change or evolve?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, the Spanish and Portuguese traders they introduced onions. They
introduced citrus first the bitter the bitter orange, and then
limes and lemons. So and so that's how it started
to evolve. Instead of the dumbo that they were using before,
they started eating citrus. So it starts becoming a little
(12:56):
bit more familiar to the city that we have today,
which is you know, citrus based. And so we have
this earliest known recipe for sevita Day's to eighteen sixty
six and it's by Lima Ryder named Manuela Nastasio Fuentez,
and he describes it as small pieces of fish or
shrimp based in sour orange juice with a lot of
(13:19):
chile and salt. I've never had ceviita with sour orange juice,
but it's probably delicious.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh my gosh. Especially you know in Medina they have
that that sour orange what's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It called naki? Yeah, yeah, Well that's that's your deira,
that is myerra, that is my dearra, my dad's land.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
By the way, that sour orange goes well with so much.
It goes well with the ce vice, goes well with fish, shrimp, pork,
you know, they do the the with that sour orange marit.
It goes with everything. I wish we could grow.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It, I know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And so no one else was introduced. Well, the potato
comes from Peru, right that the potatoes endemic to Petu
is the sweet potato also endemic to Petoo and the
corn nuts, because every time I have Peruvian sabcha, it's
with those big pieces of corn, the corn nuts, with
this big chunk of sweet potato. And I'm always like,
(14:19):
what is sweet this sweet potato feels like odd man
out in my sabichi.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It does because we're not familiar with that. I mean,
it's definitely we don't see that in our Mexican savy chair.
But yeah, sweet potatoes are native to to Peru, so
it makes sense that they would include it and the
giant cornuts. And they also include ginger in it, which
is an interesting addition. So we start seeing this kind
of Asian influence there with the ginger in the savy chin.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
A lot of people don't know that at the citrus
actually cooks the fish, right, Like, if you put lime
on the shrimp of the fish, you leave it for
a while, it actually cooks the fish. How is that possible?
Because yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It is kind of crazy. The protein in the tissue
of the fish coagulates with the acid, and it makes
the meat firm and opaque, and it's you know, it's
sort of quote unquote cooks it. So it is this
interesting chemical reaction that happens.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Where does the word sebchi come from.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So it may come from the Quechua ward sewechi, which
is for fresh fish, or for the Spanish escaveche for
pickled food, So it could be you know, this word
escavich is an ancient method of preserving food in either
vinegar or citrus that was introduced by the Spanish via
(15:42):
the Moors, and so we see colonial era Spanish cookbooks
containing recipes for both fish treated with vinegar or fish
marinated in the juice of bitter oranges. So it could
be a combination of the quechua swechi or the word
is caavechi. It's one of those mysteries, but both both
makes sense. Lima cuisine is super interesting. We talked about
(16:08):
at the beginning of the episode about this Edo period
where things where Japan was sort of shut up from
the rest of the world. So at the end of
Japan's Edo period, which we mentioned before, Japan opened up
their doors and Peru was advertised as a paradise by
Japan's new Meiji government, but really it wasn't. Recently independent,
(16:30):
Peru was transitioning out of this economy that relied on
slavery and on the system of indentured you know, agricultural
labor that replaced it was really brutal, but Japanese immigrants
they moved here to work these labor intensive or menial
jobs that were you know that people just didn't want
(16:51):
to do and they lived in that's desire familiar one
hundred percent, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So Paru's the first fire.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I know, it's crazy. Peru was the first Latin American
country to accept Japanese immigrants. The first ship of Japanese
immigrants arrived in eighteen ninety nine with about seven hundred
and ninety passengers who came to work on sugar plantations,
and then others arrived as farmers. They worked in silver
mines and on cotton plantations, and this wave continued until
(17:21):
the mid twentieth century.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
This story is nothing new. Obviously, every immigrant community travels
with their culinary traditions, and I think as long as
there's been diasporas, like all these communities always try to
replicate their food. They try to make their recipes with
foreign and unfamiliar ingredients, and then this new fusion takes place.
(17:44):
This was what I was doing when I was in
Cataluna for six months and I could not find Chile
and I was like, somebody send me. Somebody smuggled me in.
Some said an o peppers because they just can't That's
why you like, oh, I can't find good Mexican food
in certain places. It's because you don't have tolmathios, you
don't have said an. You know, there's a version of
a tol maadio, there's a version of a chila. But
(18:04):
you have to use what you have. And I think
the Japanese immigrants eventually, you know, open small businesses, which
obviously included restaurants. So many immigrants open, you know, restaurants,
and so I think with the generation of this like
Japanese Peruvian community, they became part of the social fabric
of the nation. And that's that to me is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
One hundred percent. And this is where this nick cuisine
comes into play. The word nique is Japanese word for
immigrants and their descendants. So this is what they were called.
Nique cuisine. Is this blending of both cultures and Nike
food is a testament to their success because they were
(18:51):
embedded in the economic and social fabric of the nation.
And so we see Peruvian ingredients shaped by Japanese techniques
and prepared through a Japanese lens.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So I feel like they Japanese would know how to
value raw fish right, like they were like, yes, this
is a dish we can get behind marinating raw fish.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So before the Japanese arrived, they were marinating the fish
for you know, twelve hours, and the Japanese were like, no, no, no,
we want to taste the fish. So let's put the
lime and just let it sit for about fifteen minutes
so that we can actually taste the fish. So we
have the ahi, the lime, the red onion, the salt,
(19:41):
this letter there, but just eating it right away. So
so it just created this a new level of flavor.
So you started you start seeing these you know sevi
titty as, these nikue sevy tittia is opening up all
over Lima and around the and around the country.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Everybody's heard of Nobu and he's obviously a famous Japanese chef,
Nobu Matsuhitsa, the famed Nobu restaurants all over the world.
But he was working at a sushi bar in Japan
when a Japanese Peruvian customer who traveled twice a year
from Dul to Tokyo asked him if he wanted to
open a restaurant together in Pdul, and he did, and
(20:24):
then he moved to Lima at age twenty four, and
he learned in Lima from the culture and began combining
his flavors, and his restaurant was a huge success thanks
to this large Japanese community in Lima.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Isn't that crazy? It's I find that so fascinating. He
was only there for three years. He considers Peru's second home.
But this is where he honed. I mean, he was
an incredible sushi chef in of course in Japan. Otherwise
he wouldn't have been lured to Peru. But this is
where he started combining these interesting flavors. And now you know,
(20:58):
he doesn't need a last name anymore more. He's just
he's noble. Everybody knows, you know, everybody's heard of him,
you know. So I yeah, and that's just a testament
to to food and cultures coming together.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I'm gonna go get some Awa Chile right now. Thank
you guys for spending time with us. We love hearing
from you, so keep sharing your messages and your reviews. Mikey,
you got some good reviews. You want to shout them out.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Borosa Pine is her handle. She left us a review
that said, love the podcast. I learned so much every
time I listen and loden Now from the Bear, I
sent a message after she heard our flun episode. She said, Yo,
I eat to eat dessert, Minkanta Hungry for History. You're
both doing a fabulous job.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, thank you everybody keep sending us messages. Glad you're
enjoying our nerdy journey into food history. We will see
you all next week. Hungry for History is a Hyphenet
Media production in partnership with Iheart'smichael Tura podcast network.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My name is Eva Longoria and I am my demeracon
and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores
our past and present through food.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
So make yourself at home, even brichel. We have talked
a lot about meat. I'm a big meat eater. We've
talked about chicken, fried steak, cadmia, sada.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We've covered the hot dog, barbecue, barbacor.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It is time to talk about sevice.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Peruvians are the originators of sevite, but Mexicans take civi
ta very seriously too.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Today's episodes all about sevice. We've never discussed raw fish.
I mean, have we discussed fish in general? I feel
like this is roundbreaking for us. We haven't talked about
fish at all. We've talked a lot about meat and
a lot about sweets. The communities have eaten raw fish
(01:07):
and raw meat around the world for centuries. Well, every
time I eat sevicia, it's called Peruvian savichi, but I
eat it all the time in Mexico, So I feel like,
are there different versions? Does it originate in pdu.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It does originate in Peru, but Mexico has regional sevicha's
as well. But this idea, this consumption of raw meat
has been practiced in various cultures around the world for
thousands of years, and so I think it's super interesting
to see these similar customs springing up in different parts
of the world and just shows how people are just
(01:44):
trying to figure out how to survive.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right, So, like raw meat and fish like raw meat,
raw fish were a paleo diet, right, I mean technically
Paleolithic era before before humans learned how to cook technically.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Even like Eskimo's consumed l well meat and Native Americans
consumed raw buffalo.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Meat raw are we saying are we saying like they
dried it or or raw like like sashimi.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Raw like sashimi exactly like ra ra like rara, like
like tar tar ra ra. You know, ra la ra.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So historically, who ate the first sliced raw fish? It
must be Asia.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
No, So the first recorded evidence dates to China around
A twenty three BC. And so this sort of practice
of eating sliced raw fish was popular, especially at banquets
for the nobility. But after that period records of eating
raw fish are pretty scarce, and it's probably because diners
(02:51):
were getting sick, so they were linking this consumption of
raw fish to diseases. So we kind of stuck seeing it.
And we start seeing it again in Japan around the
eighth century, so centuries later, and we start seeing thish sashimi,
so sashimi. The word sashimi literally translates to sliced meat,
(03:15):
and it became super popular around the seventeenth century during
the Edo period in Japan, which is a super interesting
period when Japan was basically cut off from the rest
of the Western world for about two hundred and fifty
years and sort of Japanese food and a lot of
things Japanese really developed during this time.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So so like sixteen hundred, sixteen hundred eight to the
eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, sixteen oh three to eighteen sixty eight is when
that happened. And so this was possible because Japan has
so much fish, right, just the sort of abundant fish
that's suitable for consumption, and also the mass production of
soy sauce. Sauce reduced the sort of fishy smell of
the fish and it enhanced its flavor.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So wait, so soy sauce was invented specifically for sashimi.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Not specifically for sashimi, because but they were making soy sauce,
you know, for seasoning for food, and they started adding it.
They just realized, oh, this really just makes.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It taste better. And so they used all the fish, right, snapper, tuna, yellowtail,
amber jack, like, there was no fish that was not
used exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
They used a lot of fish, and they just have
abundant of freshwater fish. But on the other side of
the world around the same time or even before, for
thousands of years, we have Peruvians, specifically the Macha culture
that's even pre inca culture also eating raw fish. So
(04:52):
I love this idea of just sort of similar customs. Yeah,
Machini seviche emerging on opposite sides of the world at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, but those those two worlds would eventually meet through immigration.
In Tokyo, you're getting freshwater fish, what are you getting
in other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So Peru has this long Pacific coastline, so we also
have these fresh sea bass and soul and red snapper,
and that has been caught there for centuries. But it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You can't just eat like, yeah, you can't just eat
like any raw fish, right, I mean like I wouldn't.
I wouldn't fish out of the rio grand and eat
that raw right.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, you would die. Please don't please don't, Yeah, don't
do that. Please don't do that. Not all species of
fish are suitable for raw consumption, right. And also because
some bodies of waters are so you know, polluted, and
so a lot like a lot of fish can and
shoffish can contain parasites or bacteria. When we see sushi
(05:54):
grade fish today, tuna and salmon and yettletail and sea bass,
that is a term use to describe the fish that's
considered safe to eat raw. It's a high quality fish
that's been handled and processed to ensure freshness, and it's
typically caught quickly, bled and then gut it and iced
(06:16):
and so other like fish like salmon that are known
to contain parasites are frozen at zero degrees fahrenheit for
seven days or flash frozen super quickly for about fifteen hours.
And so in the US, when we buy sushi grade fish,
most of this fish has been flash frozen.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, So if you make sevicha like when I make
sevich at home, I get sushi grade, I am like,
I want to make sure that the fish is properly
ready to be consumed raw.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely, And if you're going to make it, you know,
anybody listening, if you're going to make rough fish, go
to reputable fishmonger and tell them that you're going to
eat it raw.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
To so Mexico, like, where does Mexico come in? Because
I feel like Peruvians obviously introduced this to Mexico when well,
there are.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Different theories, right, So one theory is that, you know,
Peruvians when when the Manila Galleons were coming to Mexico,
and we talked about this a little bit in our
Mercalo's episode, they would land and there would be these
big fairs for like a month and a half, and
Peruvians would go to a capulo to to buy stuff
to buy these luxury girls coming from Asia. So maybe
(07:33):
they brought this tradition with them. Another theory is that
maybe this tradition was brought directly from the Philippines.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh oh again, because can we talk about can we
please talk about water chili like to me feels more Mexican.
Do they have awacina in Peru or do they have
technically the evolution of this in each of For Mexico,
it's technically it's basically I watch Mexican awa Chile and
(08:04):
Peruvian tiratos are basically the Mexican and the Peruvian sashimis
so because when we think of Chile, you see.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It mostly in the northern coast of so Noda. It's
also popular just along the coastal areas. And it's definitely
distinckling Mexican because it's super spicy, right, And titos is
sort of the Peruvian version, and they use ahi, which
is the Peruvian word for Chile, and let which is
tiger's milk, which is like a spicy citrus based, you know, marinate.
(08:39):
But it's the the Latin American version of sashimi just
sliced rough why.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Chile with sliced raw shrimp. That's like the famous one
here in Mexico. Like if you go to pot if
you got a cabo, you know, any of those vacation spots,
if you order normally, it comes with wrong with shrimp tue.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know. I've also had a really good
one with ross scallophous.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You're fancy, you're bougie, so bougie, all right. When we
come back, we're going to dive into the history of
Peruvian Sevici.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We talked about Peru during our potato episode and discussed
how scientific these ancient communities were when it came to agriculture. Well,
the history of Cevicha there is just as rich. So
don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I feel like Cevicha is Peru's most emblematic dish.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So in twenty twenty three, UNESCO added Peru Sevice and
the culture surrounding Cevicha to its Intangible Cultural Heritage list,
and so yeah, the importance of this dish was recognized
by UNESCO. So this is why it's the most emblematic dish.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And they have such a long coastline that they must
have a close relation with the ocean and obviously used
it to survive and thrive in free Colombian times.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
They had to absolutely in the roots of modern Dcevita
date to the Moche, a civilization that thrived in the
northern coast from the first through eighth century, and their
society was made up of these warrior priest rulers, weavers,
metal spiths, potters, farmers, fishermen, and they used these sophisticated
(10:31):
irrigation techniques to turn desert into farmland. They built canals
and reservoirs, and they supported a population of about twenty
five thousand, which is really incredible. But they left these
numerous artifacts behind depicting fishing scenes, and some of them
have evidence of these boats made out of reeds, and
(10:53):
they developed special tools for fishing. So the Moche would
catch their fish and marinated in dumbo, which is a
really tart acidic fruit that's kind of similar to passion
fruit that's native to South America. And so there's evidence
that they were doing this about two thousand years ago,
(11:17):
and then the Inca, you know, that came later. They
also developed these advanced techniques for fishing the use of
nuts and harpoons and fish traps. And this connection between
the Inca and pre Inca cultures and the ocean is
evident again in their art and their mythology. The Inca
goddess Mamcocha, which is the mother sea, was the guardian
(11:40):
of sailors and fishermen and was worshiped to ensure calm
waters and good fishing. She was also believed to protect
marine life and keep it healthy and fertile. Wow, so yeah,
it's amazing. And so there's pottery and textiles with fish
and sea creatures. So they were definitely a seafaring of
(12:04):
seafood eating population.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So when Spaniards landed, they must have like thought they
hit the jackpot. They were like what is this dish?
Because they landed later. They landed later in Bedter than Mexico.
But when Spanish colonizers landed in Peru, how did they
influence I guess this particular fish marinated you know in
(12:28):
Peruvian chili's with the seaweed and the dumbo, Like, how
did how did it start to change or evolve?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, the Spanish and Portuguese traders they introduced onions. They
introduced citrus first the bitter the bitter orange, and then
limes and lemons. So and so that's how it started
to evolve. Instead of the dumbo that they were using before,
they started eating citrus. So it starts becoming a little
(12:56):
bit more familiar to the city that we have today,
which is you know, citrus based. And so we have
this earliest known recipe for sevita Day's to eighteen sixty
six and it's by Lima Ryder named Manuela Nastasio Fuentez,
and he describes it as small pieces of fish or
shrimp based in sour orange juice with a lot of
(13:19):
chile and salt. I've never had ceviita with sour orange juice,
but it's probably delicious.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh my gosh. Especially you know in Medina they have
that that sour orange what's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It called naki? Yeah, yeah, Well that's that's your deira,
that is myerra, that is my dearra, my dad's land.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
By the way, that sour orange goes well with so much.
It goes well with the ce vice, goes well with fish, shrimp, pork,
you know, they do the the with that sour orange marit.
It goes with everything. I wish we could grow.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It, I know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And so no one else was introduced. Well, the potato
comes from Peru, right that the potatoes endemic to Petu
is the sweet potato also endemic to Petoo and the
corn nuts, because every time I have Peruvian sabcha, it's
with those big pieces of corn, the corn nuts, with
this big chunk of sweet potato. And I'm always like,
(14:19):
what is sweet this sweet potato feels like odd man
out in my sabichi.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It does because we're not familiar with that. I mean,
it's definitely we don't see that in our Mexican savy chair.
But yeah, sweet potatoes are native to to Peru, so
it makes sense that they would include it and the
giant cornuts. And they also include ginger in it, which
is an interesting addition. So we start seeing this kind
of Asian influence there with the ginger in the savy chin.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
A lot of people don't know that at the citrus
actually cooks the fish, right, Like, if you put lime
on the shrimp of the fish, you leave it for
a while, it actually cooks the fish. How is that possible?
Because yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It is kind of crazy. The protein in the tissue
of the fish coagulates with the acid, and it makes
the meat firm and opaque, and it's you know, it's
sort of quote unquote cooks it. So it is this
interesting chemical reaction that happens.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Where does the word sebchi come from.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So it may come from the Quechua ward sewechi, which
is for fresh fish, or for the Spanish escaveche for
pickled food, So it could be you know, this word
escavich is an ancient method of preserving food in either
vinegar or citrus that was introduced by the Spanish via
(15:42):
the Moors, and so we see colonial era Spanish cookbooks
containing recipes for both fish treated with vinegar or fish
marinated in the juice of bitter oranges. So it could
be a combination of the quechua swechi or the word
is caavechi. It's one of those mysteries, but both both
makes sense. Lima cuisine is super interesting. We talked about
(16:08):
at the beginning of the episode about this Edo period
where things where Japan was sort of shut up from
the rest of the world. So at the end of
Japan's Edo period, which we mentioned before, Japan opened up
their doors and Peru was advertised as a paradise by
Japan's new Meiji government, but really it wasn't. Recently independent,
(16:30):
Peru was transitioning out of this economy that relied on
slavery and on the system of indentured you know, agricultural
labor that replaced it was really brutal, but Japanese immigrants
they moved here to work these labor intensive or menial
jobs that were you know that people just didn't want
(16:51):
to do and they lived in that's desire familiar one
hundred percent, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So Paru's the first fire.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I know, it's crazy. Peru was the first Latin American
country to accept Japanese immigrants. The first ship of Japanese
immigrants arrived in eighteen ninety nine with about seven hundred
and ninety passengers who came to work on sugar plantations,
and then others arrived as farmers. They worked in silver
mines and on cotton plantations, and this wave continued until
(17:21):
the mid twentieth century.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
This story is nothing new. Obviously, every immigrant community travels
with their culinary traditions, and I think as long as
there's been diasporas, like all these communities always try to
replicate their food. They try to make their recipes with
foreign and unfamiliar ingredients, and then this new fusion takes place.
(17:44):
This was what I was doing when I was in
Cataluna for six months and I could not find Chile
and I was like, somebody send me. Somebody smuggled me in.
Some said an o peppers because they just can't That's
why you like, oh, I can't find good Mexican food
in certain places. It's because you don't have tolmathios, you
don't have said an. You know, there's a version of
a tol maadio, there's a version of a chila. But
(18:04):
you have to use what you have. And I think
the Japanese immigrants eventually, you know, open small businesses, which
obviously included restaurants. So many immigrants open, you know, restaurants,
and so I think with the generation of this like
Japanese Peruvian community, they became part of the social fabric
of the nation. And that's that to me is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
One hundred percent. And this is where this nick cuisine
comes into play. The word nique is Japanese word for
immigrants and their descendants. So this is what they were called.
Nique cuisine. Is this blending of both cultures and Nike
food is a testament to their success because they were
(18:51):
embedded in the economic and social fabric of the nation.
And so we see Peruvian ingredients shaped by Japanese techniques
and prepared through a Japanese lens.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So I feel like they Japanese would know how to
value raw fish right, like they were like, yes, this
is a dish we can get behind marinating raw fish.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So before the Japanese arrived, they were marinating the fish
for you know, twelve hours, and the Japanese were like, no, no, no,
we want to taste the fish. So let's put the
lime and just let it sit for about fifteen minutes
so that we can actually taste the fish. So we
have the ahi, the lime, the red onion, the salt,
(19:41):
this letter there, but just eating it right away. So
so it just created this a new level of flavor.
So you started you start seeing these you know sevi
titty as, these nikue sevy tittia is opening up all
over Lima and around the and around the country.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Everybody's heard of Nobu and he's obviously a famous Japanese chef,
Nobu Matsuhitsa, the famed Nobu restaurants all over the world.
But he was working at a sushi bar in Japan
when a Japanese Peruvian customer who traveled twice a year
from Dul to Tokyo asked him if he wanted to
open a restaurant together in Pdul, and he did, and
(20:24):
then he moved to Lima at age twenty four, and
he learned in Lima from the culture and began combining
his flavors, and his restaurant was a huge success thanks
to this large Japanese community in Lima.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Isn't that crazy? It's I find that so fascinating. He
was only there for three years. He considers Peru's second home.
But this is where he honed. I mean, he was
an incredible sushi chef in of course in Japan. Otherwise
he wouldn't have been lured to Peru. But this is
where he started combining these interesting flavors. And now you know,
(20:58):
he doesn't need a last name anymore more. He's just
he's noble. Everybody knows, you know, everybody's heard of him,
you know. So I yeah, and that's just a testament
to to food and cultures coming together.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I'm gonna go get some Awa Chile right now. Thank
you guys for spending time with us. We love hearing
from you, so keep sharing your messages and your reviews. Mikey,
you got some good reviews. You want to shout them out.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Borosa Pine is her handle. She left us a review
that said, love the podcast. I learned so much every
time I listen and loden Now from the Bear, I
sent a message after she heard our flun episode. She said, Yo,
I eat to eat dessert, Minkanta Hungry for History. You're
both doing a fabulous job.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, thank you everybody keep sending us messages. Glad you're
enjoying our nerdy journey into food history. We will see
you all next week. Hungry for History is a Hyphenet
Media production in partnership with Iheart'smichael Tura podcast network.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
MAITE GOMEZ-REJÓN
Eva Longoria
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