April 3, 2025 • 21 mins
Whether forced or by choice, our dishes and culinary traditions are constantly being adapted due to migration. This week, Eva and Maite discuss the Sephardic Jewish roots in some of their favorite Mexican dishes, including cabrito (roasted kid goat) and albondigas (meatballs). They welcome medieval scholar, chef and author of Matzah and Flour: Recipes from the History of the Sephardic Jews, Hélène Jawhara Piñer, to the show to talk about one of their favorite topics, tortillas!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the show. This is our second to
the last episode while season two that's crazy we do.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is this is episode twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It feels like it's flown by. You know why when
I said I want to do a podcast, I said,
I the only way I can do a podcast is
if I enjoy. If I enjoy every time it's on
my calendar. Like when I see like Mike and I
are going to have to record at five, I'm like,
Mike and I am.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Recording it five, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
That's when you know. That's when you know it's going
to be a good podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Totally. I love it. I really it's been. It's so
much fun. I can't believe that this is episode fifty nine.
This is episode fifty nine. Total. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So you guys know, like we have eighty thousand other
topics and we get equally excited about each and every episode.
I'm an episode that I was like, that's a dud.
I feel like what preservatives. Let's go. My name is
Evil Longoria and I am Myra and Welcome to Hungry
(01:12):
for History, a podcast that explores our past and present
through food.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So make yourself at home. Even I feel like today's
episode we've touched on here and there, But I was
just in New York eating a bagel, and then you
and I got to talking about all the Jewish influences
in food. Yeah, but what are some things that don't
(01:43):
come to mind? That he has Jewish roots?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
New York, that's where you can have all of that. Like,
really those foods that most people in the US associate
with Jewish foods, But we think of bagels and cafilter
division pastrami, but we don't think of cabrito or albondias.
But those also have Jewish roots, but a different type
(02:08):
of Jewish.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Root here in the US. When we think of Jewish foods,
we think of bagels and locks and pastrami. Like a
lot of things come to mind, And I think the
foods we associate with the Jewish delis those were introduced
by the Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to the States from
Central and Eastern Europe in the late nineteenth early twentieth century.
(02:33):
But there's other foods that are associated with the Jewish community,
different culture, different cuisine. Oh, the Sapharic Jews and those
origins come from the Iberian Peninsula, Spain, Portugal before the
Jewish expulsion from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition, right.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
They were kicked out of Spain in fourteen ninety two
and then Ugo in fourteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Here's the thing that I learned in searching for Mexico
that Gabrito was Jewish influenced because of the Crypto Jews
that were forced to convert to Catholicism, and they were
baptized Catholic and they followed, you know, the Catholic practices,
but they were practicing Judaism in secret. And so a
lot of those Sephardic Jews made their way to Central
(03:25):
Mexico in the fifteen hundreds and then obviously later made
their way into northern Mexico, which was Texas. And Mexican
cuisine has so many dishes with Sephardic Jewish roots. By
the way to Torrilla, which we talked about, albondigas Gabrito,
what else, what else?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Capirro tada, pande semita, some the Turcos which I've had
never had before. But there's so much, you know, and
even you cooking with things like you know, a lot
of garlic and cuman, that is something that is just
so sated with Sephardic you know, cuisine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I do think cabrito is important because gabrito is interesting
because it's goat. I don't know if people know, but
gabrito's a roasted goat and it was so common with
the Sephardic Jews in Spain and Portugal because it adhered
to kosher laws, you know, it prohibits pork, it required
the humane slaughter of an animal, and goats were like
(04:22):
everywhere in the northern Mexico landscape. And so this tradition
of cooking cabrito, particularly in Monterey and that's like where
most of my family is from, Monterrey, nov Leon, a
lot of goat and that became way more popular than pork.
Like there wasn't a lot of pork, like there isn't
vera Cruz. Vera Cruz is like or in the Yucatan,
(04:42):
you know, like there's so much pork in the coast.
But once you got to like the north and Monterey,
it's goat and beef, right, and so it was easy
for these Sephardic Jews to hide because they didn't have
to eat eat the pork. But I love gabrito and
the Sephardic culinary techniques really influenced the way I've eaten
(05:07):
it today. And they you know, they they slow roasting.
First of all, it's super slow. My dad would make
a gabrito almost every weekend. One time we had a
pet goat and my dad cooked it and I was like,
where scary, yeah, because I thought he thought that was
like my new pat and then we were eating it.
Oh oh, talk about trauma. But anyway, God, So the
(05:28):
slow roasting over the fire, you know, over the lenya,
that really is reminiscent of these ancient Jewish roasting traditions
for lamb. So they kind of just like applied those
same roasting techniques and they would spice it with cumin, garlic, oregano, cinnamon, clove,
really big in a gabrito. Did you have gabrito GOINGA?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I did?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
My mom still makes it all the time. She roasted slowly.
She does it in the oven, like slow roast in
the oven. It's not my favorite.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's not my favorite. Now it's a little gamey.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, it's a little gamey, but I do love it.
And every time I go to Monterrey, we have to
have gaurito. And I remember going, you know, you know,
growing up in Loreto and no of a Loreedo, just
driving down the street and all of the restaurants they
have the Gavriito's and the window, you know, the goat
is just crucified in the window. But it remains a
really celebrated dish, and it has these crypto Jewish history
(06:27):
and most people might not consciously identified it, you know,
as this Jewish tradition.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
The one thing it's so funny because I didn't grow
up with that bondigas, did you?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I did, see, I did grow up with that bondigas.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And I feel like albondigas is very Spanish. I feel
like it has a very like I eat them in
Spain and on searching for Spain, it's a very There's
a very traditional al bondiga dish with an almond sauce,
like with the roasted nuts, which is very Moorish. Yeah,
but so how did it become Sephardic jew Ish?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The word?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I know?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
This is where it gets really interesting because it's such
a mix of cultures. I grew up eating albondigas all
the time. My mom's the most amazing alondas in a
Chippotli sauce. So it's very Mexican. They're spicy, they're smoky.
But the word albondiga comes from the Arabic al bunduka,
something like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Anything all is you know, al andalous, al coohol, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, Arabic. Yeah,
all this, so all bondiga is definitely Arabic.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It comes and it means like a small round object
of the Arabic word. This is where it gets really
interesting because yes it's Spanish. It comes from the Arabic,
so we see the Moorish influence in Spanish, you know, cuisine,
and then the Sephardic Jews who lived in Spain before
their expulsion in fourteen ninety two brought these over right
(07:54):
and adapted these culinary traditions, including these meatballs is a
meat and then they adapted it to the native ingredients.
So some Servardic versions of albondigas are made with lam
or beef and have cinnamon and cumin, you know, and garlic,
the almond ones that you mentioned. But also when Albondigas
(08:16):
made their way to Mexico. We start seeing tomato based sauces.
So these meatballs cooked in tomato based sauces Chipotle, which
is what I grew up with. So they just start
adapting and it's like everything, right, It's like cuisine is
constantly changing and constantly adapting, and so these traditions really
(08:39):
often get lost or we just don't think about where
where they came from. So there's really no written evidence
of Jewish foods until the thirteenth century. There's a cookbook
named al and the anonymous author include four hundred and
(09:00):
sixty two recipes and six have the names Jewish in
the title. So they identify them as different than the others,
and what unites them is their instructions to clean the
chicken and right, it's really interesting. And so we see
three ingredients that define Sephardic foods and that includes cilantro
(09:21):
olive oil, and garlic.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I know, like early Sephardic migration with the Americans. Okay,
so like fourteen ninety two, you know, the Catholic Church
and the monarchs of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabelle, they expelled
all Jews from Spain, right to establish as Catholic Empire.
And so the Spanish crown had a lot of colonies
in America and they prohibited the Jews from settling even
(09:46):
in the colonies. So when the Jews fled, they entered
a lot of these regions pretending to be Catholic, and
so they would you know, outwardly be Christian, but then
they would obviously practice practice Judaism. And so this was
happening until the Inquisition made its way to the Americas,
and all these Holy courts were set up in places
(10:08):
like Lime Peruca, Colombia, Mexico City, and Ra Cruz because
Vera Cruz was the port, and so they literally had
people on guard as boats came in, and anybody suspected
of being a Jew was burned at the stake. And
so so many of these families, you know, left their
Jewish practices entirely, or they tried to like distance themselves
(10:29):
from their heritage to avoid dying, of avoid being burned
at the stake.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, the Mexican's Inquisition, it you know, followed them in
fifteen seventy one, and it didn't until eighteen twenty. That's
a really long time. And yeah, there were practicing a
lot of their religions. And I mentioned, you know earlier
those six recipes from the thirteenth century cookbook that talks
(10:56):
about instructions to clean the chicken, and so are certain ways,
and we see these practices in Novoleon and Tami Pascualelas
and also among some Mexican Americans in Texas. There are
different ways of butchering chicken. So one is the chicken
is slaughtered by wringing their neck by hand or by
(11:17):
cutting off their head quickly, just with one stroke, and
then immediately hanging it to let the blood drain into
a container. And then the fowl that is then washed
to remove any any remaining blood.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Why wouldn't why but why wouldn't everybody kill a chicken
that way?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
It's the humane way to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right, Like I mean, I remember when I told you
I was my dad's what do you call the dogs
that go get the birds? So when my dad would
shoot polomas, they would fall and we would have to
run and go find them. And if they were still alive,
we would have to break their neck and we would
do that by ringing. We would ring their neck like wow,
and you would do to put them out of their misery.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's the way to do it. I don't think
I could do it, but but yeah, of course, otherwise
it's going to suffer. But this is something that's the secret.
Jews in Mexico in the sixteen forties they did exactly
the same thing. And oftentimes, you know, neighbors, business associates,
or housekeepers they would see these practices and they would
(12:17):
report these customs to inquisition officials. Let's talk about Carvajat Oh,
he founded Monterrey.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Who was this dude.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
He was a Spanish nobleman explorer. He served as the
governor of the new Kingdom of Leon, which is present
day in northeast Mexico. He founded the city of Monterrey,
and he was born in Portugal. He was born Crypto Jewish,
and he immigrated to Spain and then made his way
to America. He said to be the first Spaniard to
cross the lower Rio Grande into what is now Texas.
(12:53):
But the Carvajal family was one of the most prominent
Crypto Jewish families in colonial Mexico in the Cia exteenth century.
So this guy, they publicly him and his family publicly
appeared Catholic he came to Mexico, he brought a bunch
of relatives over Gotvajada was charged with trafficking indigenous slaves,
(13:14):
so he was summoned to Mexico City. So he probably
was not a good guy. But the reason that he
was killed was because he was practicing his Judaism in
secret and he was caught. So this is why, and
he died. He was going to be executed. He died
in prison beforehand. But in the following years, his entire
(13:34):
family were all killed one hundred and twenty because they
were the family, because they were Jewish. His nephew, who
was also named Ruiz Garbaja, outed one hundred and twenty
other family members, including his own mother, his brother, his sisters,
and all of them were burned at the stake in
(13:54):
Mexico City's main square on December eighth, fifteen ninety six.
And this was happening up to eighteen twenty. And what's
crazy is that everything is recorded. When we did our
Halloween episode, we talked about chocolate and the inquisition, and
all of these things are recorded, and everything that a
(14:15):
person said, like, there's a record of all of this
and who outed them and what they were doing they
don't say.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
The Catholic Church has the best records of everything. That's
why I was able to trace back my genealogy to
exactly where I was from and where my family was
born six hundred years ago, because of Catholicism, because of
because of the Catholic Church. Because there's the five sacraments,
(14:43):
which is birth, communion, confirmation, marriage, and death. So you're
always being tracked, you know what I mean. They know
who you married, they know where you were when you
got your communion land I mean all of that. The
(15:05):
flower tortilla is king in northern Mexico and South Texas.
That's my jam. You know that corn tortilla. I'm the
flower tortilla. I covered this in Searching for Mexico. But
there's a reason why the flower tortilla is so strong
in the north.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
There is, yes, for sure, and there's also evidence of
corn tortillas being in during Passover. I went to UCLA
a few weeks ago and heard Elenja Warapignette. She's a
medieval culinary historian. I heard her speak. She was on
a book tour in the US. She just wrote this
cookbook called Mazza and Flower, and I really wanted to
(15:47):
talk to her and Lenja Warapignette teaches at the University
of Tour and the University of Bordeaux Montaigne in France.
She researches the culinary practices of Sephardic Jews through inquisition trials,
and is the author of Jews Food in Spain, the
oldest medieval Spanish cookbook and the Sephardic Culinary Heritage, and
(16:07):
the cookbooks Sephardi Cooking the History and Matsa and Flour. Eating,
she says, is a way to commemorate the past. I've
been following her work for a long time and was
so happy I had a chance to meet her in
person a few weeks ago while she was on book
tour in the States for her latest cookbook, Matsa and Flower.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We talked about, among other things, thirty yas.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Making corn tortillas, for example, in order to celebrate Passover.
So this is something very special because obviously corn did
not exist, yes at that time in Europe, so in
the Mediterranean. But nevertheless, the Jews from the middle of
the seventeenth century knew very well about how to practice Judaism.
(16:57):
So for example, we have this ALV carrion. She was
living in the countryside of Mexico and he had to
celebrate Passover, but he could not eat any wheat to
make elevened bread, so he decided to eat corn. And
the mention of corn is the Inquisition trials is very relevant,
(17:18):
so they knew about this. It's obviously the juice did
not invent invent the dishes with corn, but they knew
that they were able to eat corn to celebrate Passover,
and they also knew that the corn should.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Be nextimalized to make the tortillas.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So let's talk about why corn tortillas were okay to
eat during Passover but not flour. Five kinds of grains
are prohibited during Passover wheat, rye, barley, oats, and spelt
because these grains began to ferment and rise when they
come into contact with water for eighteen minutes, so this
(17:58):
in Hebrew, this rising grain is called comets, and so
during Passover, Jews avoid eating this. But if nick stimalized
corn is mixed with water and left to ferment, it
would undergo natural fermentation process. But since it's not one
of the five prohibited grains and fermentation doesn't happen. The
(18:19):
same way Sephardic Jews in the sixteenth, seventeenth, and eighteenth centuries.
So Sephardic Jews would eat nix stimalized corn products. And
so there's evidence during this time period in Mexico of
people during Passover or around Passover eating dosadas like the
(18:43):
corn thirtillas and you know, during this passover satyr and
dipping it into Chile. It's this really interesting adaptation of
the passover you know meal, it sort of becomes this
you know, there were the corn thirtias was cultural, you know,
accept it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So the interesting thing about the flower totia that it
was birthed out of this need to mimic unleavened bread,
right and so without without salt or fat. And and
that's how the flower tritilla was born by the crypto juice.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, and what she was saying something that I found
really interesting is that they were making it without salt,
and that was something that was really key without salt,
and it was you know, it was fast right, cook
it within eighteen minutes to prevent fermentation. But if you
left out salt, this slowed down the baking process and
(19:40):
it helped ensure that thethias remained unleavened, and so making
thirtillas it made you know, crypto juice. As long as
they didn't put salt in it, they could maintain a
secret connection or hidden connection to their faith and still
blend in to what was growing with the wheat that
(20:01):
was growing in the north.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
This is something very special because you know the tortillas,
the wheat tortillas are like one hundred percent exactly the
same as the matsa so the end of the bread.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you know, this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Because it's wheat and wheat flour and water and most
of the times there is no salt. So this is
really crazy because in fact, what they do is they
make tortilla or they ennov theed bread using so flour
and water and salt. But the fact that there is
(20:38):
no salt inside is really relevant and intriguing, in.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Fact so interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I love a flower tortilla, so God, I do like
your salt and lard, but there was no lard in these.
So thank you Telapignet for joining us on the.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Show, and thank you all for listening. We'll see you
next week.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Hungary for History is a hyphen media production in partnership
with Iheart'smichaultura podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back to the show. This is our second to
the last episode while season two that's crazy we do.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is this is episode twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It feels like it's flown by. You know why when
I said I want to do a podcast, I said,
I the only way I can do a podcast is
if I enjoy. If I enjoy every time it's on
my calendar. Like when I see like Mike and I
are going to have to record at five, I'm like,
Mike and I am.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Recording it five, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
That's when you know. That's when you know it's going
to be a good podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Totally. I love it. I really it's been. It's so
much fun. I can't believe that this is episode fifty nine.
This is episode fifty nine. Total. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So you guys know, like we have eighty thousand other
topics and we get equally excited about each and every episode.
I'm an episode that I was like, that's a dud.
I feel like what preservatives. Let's go. My name is
Evil Longoria and I am Myra and Welcome to Hungry
(01:12):
for History, a podcast that explores our past and present
through food.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So make yourself at home. Even I feel like today's
episode we've touched on here and there, But I was
just in New York eating a bagel, and then you
and I got to talking about all the Jewish influences
in food. Yeah, but what are some things that don't
(01:43):
come to mind? That he has Jewish roots?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
New York, that's where you can have all of that. Like,
really those foods that most people in the US associate
with Jewish foods, But we think of bagels and cafilter
division pastrami, but we don't think of cabrito or albondias.
But those also have Jewish roots, but a different type
(02:08):
of Jewish.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Root here in the US. When we think of Jewish foods,
we think of bagels and locks and pastrami. Like a
lot of things come to mind, And I think the
foods we associate with the Jewish delis those were introduced
by the Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to the States from
Central and Eastern Europe in the late nineteenth early twentieth century.
(02:33):
But there's other foods that are associated with the Jewish community,
different culture, different cuisine. Oh, the Sapharic Jews and those
origins come from the Iberian Peninsula, Spain, Portugal before the
Jewish expulsion from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition, right.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
They were kicked out of Spain in fourteen ninety two
and then Ugo in fourteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Here's the thing that I learned in searching for Mexico
that Gabrito was Jewish influenced because of the Crypto Jews
that were forced to convert to Catholicism, and they were
baptized Catholic and they followed, you know, the Catholic practices,
but they were practicing Judaism in secret. And so a
lot of those Sephardic Jews made their way to Central
(03:25):
Mexico in the fifteen hundreds and then obviously later made
their way into northern Mexico, which was Texas. And Mexican
cuisine has so many dishes with Sephardic Jewish roots. By
the way to Torrilla, which we talked about, albondigas Gabrito,
what else, what else?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Capirro tada, pande semita, some the Turcos which I've had
never had before. But there's so much, you know, and
even you cooking with things like you know, a lot
of garlic and cuman, that is something that is just
so sated with Sephardic you know, cuisine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I do think cabrito is important because gabrito is interesting
because it's goat. I don't know if people know, but
gabrito's a roasted goat and it was so common with
the Sephardic Jews in Spain and Portugal because it adhered
to kosher laws, you know, it prohibits pork, it required
the humane slaughter of an animal, and goats were like
(04:22):
everywhere in the northern Mexico landscape. And so this tradition
of cooking cabrito, particularly in Monterey and that's like where
most of my family is from, Monterrey, nov Leon, a
lot of goat and that became way more popular than pork.
Like there wasn't a lot of pork, like there isn't
vera Cruz. Vera Cruz is like or in the Yucatan,
(04:42):
you know, like there's so much pork in the coast.
But once you got to like the north and Monterey,
it's goat and beef, right, and so it was easy
for these Sephardic Jews to hide because they didn't have
to eat eat the pork. But I love gabrito and
the Sephardic culinary techniques really influenced the way I've eaten
(05:07):
it today. And they you know, they they slow roasting.
First of all, it's super slow. My dad would make
a gabrito almost every weekend. One time we had a
pet goat and my dad cooked it and I was like,
where scary, yeah, because I thought he thought that was
like my new pat and then we were eating it.
Oh oh, talk about trauma. But anyway, God, So the
(05:28):
slow roasting over the fire, you know, over the lenya,
that really is reminiscent of these ancient Jewish roasting traditions
for lamb. So they kind of just like applied those
same roasting techniques and they would spice it with cumin, garlic, oregano, cinnamon, clove,
really big in a gabrito. Did you have gabrito GOINGA?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I did?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
My mom still makes it all the time. She roasted slowly.
She does it in the oven, like slow roast in
the oven. It's not my favorite.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's not my favorite. Now it's a little gamey.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, it's a little gamey, but I do love it.
And every time I go to Monterrey, we have to
have gaurito. And I remember going, you know, you know,
growing up in Loreto and no of a Loreedo, just
driving down the street and all of the restaurants they
have the Gavriito's and the window, you know, the goat
is just crucified in the window. But it remains a
really celebrated dish, and it has these crypto Jewish history
(06:27):
and most people might not consciously identified it, you know,
as this Jewish tradition.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
The one thing it's so funny because I didn't grow
up with that bondigas, did you?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I did, see, I did grow up with that bondigas.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And I feel like albondigas is very Spanish. I feel
like it has a very like I eat them in
Spain and on searching for Spain, it's a very There's
a very traditional al bondiga dish with an almond sauce,
like with the roasted nuts, which is very Moorish. Yeah,
but so how did it become Sephardic jew Ish?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The word?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I know?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
This is where it gets really interesting because it's such
a mix of cultures. I grew up eating albondigas all
the time. My mom's the most amazing alondas in a
Chippotli sauce. So it's very Mexican. They're spicy, they're smoky.
But the word albondiga comes from the Arabic al bunduka,
something like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Anything all is you know, al andalous, al coohol, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, Arabic. Yeah,
all this, so all bondiga is definitely Arabic.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It comes and it means like a small round object
of the Arabic word. This is where it gets really
interesting because yes it's Spanish. It comes from the Arabic,
so we see the Moorish influence in Spanish, you know, cuisine,
and then the Sephardic Jews who lived in Spain before
their expulsion in fourteen ninety two brought these over right
(07:54):
and adapted these culinary traditions, including these meatballs is a
meat and then they adapted it to the native ingredients.
So some Servardic versions of albondigas are made with lam
or beef and have cinnamon and cumin, you know, and garlic,
the almond ones that you mentioned. But also when Albondigas
(08:16):
made their way to Mexico. We start seeing tomato based sauces.
So these meatballs cooked in tomato based sauces Chipotle, which
is what I grew up with. So they just start
adapting and it's like everything, right, It's like cuisine is
constantly changing and constantly adapting, and so these traditions really
(08:39):
often get lost or we just don't think about where
where they came from. So there's really no written evidence
of Jewish foods until the thirteenth century. There's a cookbook
named al and the anonymous author include four hundred and
(09:00):
sixty two recipes and six have the names Jewish in
the title. So they identify them as different than the others,
and what unites them is their instructions to clean the
chicken and right, it's really interesting. And so we see
three ingredients that define Sephardic foods and that includes cilantro
(09:21):
olive oil, and garlic.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I know, like early Sephardic migration with the Americans. Okay,
so like fourteen ninety two, you know, the Catholic Church
and the monarchs of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabelle, they expelled
all Jews from Spain, right to establish as Catholic Empire.
And so the Spanish crown had a lot of colonies
in America and they prohibited the Jews from settling even
(09:46):
in the colonies. So when the Jews fled, they entered
a lot of these regions pretending to be Catholic, and
so they would you know, outwardly be Christian, but then
they would obviously practice practice Judaism. And so this was
happening until the Inquisition made its way to the Americas,
and all these Holy courts were set up in places
(10:08):
like Lime Peruca, Colombia, Mexico City, and Ra Cruz because
Vera Cruz was the port, and so they literally had
people on guard as boats came in, and anybody suspected
of being a Jew was burned at the stake. And
so so many of these families, you know, left their
Jewish practices entirely, or they tried to like distance themselves
(10:29):
from their heritage to avoid dying, of avoid being burned
at the stake.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, the Mexican's Inquisition, it you know, followed them in
fifteen seventy one, and it didn't until eighteen twenty. That's
a really long time. And yeah, there were practicing a
lot of their religions. And I mentioned, you know earlier
those six recipes from the thirteenth century cookbook that talks
(10:56):
about instructions to clean the chicken, and so are certain ways,
and we see these practices in Novoleon and Tami Pascualelas
and also among some Mexican Americans in Texas. There are
different ways of butchering chicken. So one is the chicken
is slaughtered by wringing their neck by hand or by
(11:17):
cutting off their head quickly, just with one stroke, and
then immediately hanging it to let the blood drain into
a container. And then the fowl that is then washed
to remove any any remaining blood.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Why wouldn't why but why wouldn't everybody kill a chicken
that way?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
It's the humane way to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right, Like I mean, I remember when I told you
I was my dad's what do you call the dogs
that go get the birds? So when my dad would
shoot polomas, they would fall and we would have to
run and go find them. And if they were still alive,
we would have to break their neck and we would
do that by ringing. We would ring their neck like wow,
and you would do to put them out of their misery.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's the way to do it. I don't think
I could do it, but but yeah, of course, otherwise
it's going to suffer. But this is something that's the secret.
Jews in Mexico in the sixteen forties they did exactly
the same thing. And oftentimes, you know, neighbors, business associates,
or housekeepers they would see these practices and they would
(12:17):
report these customs to inquisition officials. Let's talk about Carvajat Oh,
he founded Monterrey.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Who was this dude.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
He was a Spanish nobleman explorer. He served as the
governor of the new Kingdom of Leon, which is present
day in northeast Mexico. He founded the city of Monterrey,
and he was born in Portugal. He was born Crypto Jewish,
and he immigrated to Spain and then made his way
to America. He said to be the first Spaniard to
cross the lower Rio Grande into what is now Texas.
(12:53):
But the Carvajal family was one of the most prominent
Crypto Jewish families in colonial Mexico in the Cia exteenth century.
So this guy, they publicly him and his family publicly
appeared Catholic he came to Mexico, he brought a bunch
of relatives over Gotvajada was charged with trafficking indigenous slaves,
(13:14):
so he was summoned to Mexico City. So he probably
was not a good guy. But the reason that he
was killed was because he was practicing his Judaism in
secret and he was caught. So this is why, and
he died. He was going to be executed. He died
in prison beforehand. But in the following years, his entire
(13:34):
family were all killed one hundred and twenty because they
were the family, because they were Jewish. His nephew, who
was also named Ruiz Garbaja, outed one hundred and twenty
other family members, including his own mother, his brother, his sisters,
and all of them were burned at the stake in
(13:54):
Mexico City's main square on December eighth, fifteen ninety six.
And this was happening up to eighteen twenty. And what's
crazy is that everything is recorded. When we did our
Halloween episode, we talked about chocolate and the inquisition, and
all of these things are recorded, and everything that a
(14:15):
person said, like, there's a record of all of this
and who outed them and what they were doing they
don't say.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
The Catholic Church has the best records of everything. That's
why I was able to trace back my genealogy to
exactly where I was from and where my family was
born six hundred years ago, because of Catholicism, because of
because of the Catholic Church. Because there's the five sacraments,
(14:43):
which is birth, communion, confirmation, marriage, and death. So you're
always being tracked, you know what I mean. They know
who you married, they know where you were when you
got your communion land I mean all of that. The
(15:05):
flower tortilla is king in northern Mexico and South Texas.
That's my jam. You know that corn tortilla. I'm the
flower tortilla. I covered this in Searching for Mexico. But
there's a reason why the flower tortilla is so strong
in the north.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
There is, yes, for sure, and there's also evidence of
corn tortillas being in during Passover. I went to UCLA
a few weeks ago and heard Elenja Warapignette. She's a
medieval culinary historian. I heard her speak. She was on
a book tour in the US. She just wrote this
cookbook called Mazza and Flower, and I really wanted to
(15:47):
talk to her and Lenja Warapignette teaches at the University
of Tour and the University of Bordeaux Montaigne in France.
She researches the culinary practices of Sephardic Jews through inquisition trials,
and is the author of Jews Food in Spain, the
oldest medieval Spanish cookbook and the Sephardic Culinary Heritage, and
(16:07):
the cookbooks Sephardi Cooking the History and Matsa and Flour. Eating,
she says, is a way to commemorate the past. I've
been following her work for a long time and was
so happy I had a chance to meet her in
person a few weeks ago while she was on book
tour in the States for her latest cookbook, Matsa and Flower.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We talked about, among other things, thirty yas.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Making corn tortillas, for example, in order to celebrate Passover.
So this is something very special because obviously corn did
not exist, yes at that time in Europe, so in
the Mediterranean. But nevertheless, the Jews from the middle of
the seventeenth century knew very well about how to practice Judaism.
(16:57):
So for example, we have this ALV carrion. She was
living in the countryside of Mexico and he had to
celebrate Passover, but he could not eat any wheat to
make elevened bread, so he decided to eat corn. And
the mention of corn is the Inquisition trials is very relevant,
(17:18):
so they knew about this. It's obviously the juice did
not invent invent the dishes with corn, but they knew
that they were able to eat corn to celebrate Passover,
and they also knew that the corn should.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Be nextimalized to make the tortillas.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So let's talk about why corn tortillas were okay to
eat during Passover but not flour. Five kinds of grains
are prohibited during Passover wheat, rye, barley, oats, and spelt
because these grains began to ferment and rise when they
come into contact with water for eighteen minutes, so this
(17:58):
in Hebrew, this rising grain is called comets, and so
during Passover, Jews avoid eating this. But if nick stimalized
corn is mixed with water and left to ferment, it
would undergo natural fermentation process. But since it's not one
of the five prohibited grains and fermentation doesn't happen. The
(18:19):
same way Sephardic Jews in the sixteenth, seventeenth, and eighteenth centuries.
So Sephardic Jews would eat nix stimalized corn products. And
so there's evidence during this time period in Mexico of
people during Passover or around Passover eating dosadas like the
(18:43):
corn thirtillas and you know, during this passover satyr and
dipping it into Chile. It's this really interesting adaptation of
the passover you know meal, it sort of becomes this
you know, there were the corn thirtias was cultural, you know,
accept it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So the interesting thing about the flower totia that it
was birthed out of this need to mimic unleavened bread,
right and so without without salt or fat. And and
that's how the flower tritilla was born by the crypto juice.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, and what she was saying something that I found
really interesting is that they were making it without salt,
and that was something that was really key without salt,
and it was you know, it was fast right, cook
it within eighteen minutes to prevent fermentation. But if you
left out salt, this slowed down the baking process and
(19:40):
it helped ensure that thethias remained unleavened, and so making
thirtillas it made you know, crypto juice. As long as
they didn't put salt in it, they could maintain a
secret connection or hidden connection to their faith and still
blend in to what was growing with the wheat that
(20:01):
was growing in the north.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
This is something very special because you know the tortillas,
the wheat tortillas are like one hundred percent exactly the
same as the matsa so the end of the bread.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you know, this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Because it's wheat and wheat flour and water and most
of the times there is no salt. So this is
really crazy because in fact, what they do is they
make tortilla or they ennov theed bread using so flour
and water and salt. But the fact that there is
(20:38):
no salt inside is really relevant and intriguing, in.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Fact so interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I love a flower tortilla, so God, I do like
your salt and lard, but there was no lard in these.
So thank you Telapignet for joining us on the.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Show, and thank you all for listening. We'll see you
next week.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Hungary for History is a hyphen media production in partnership
with Iheart'smichaultura podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
MAITE GOMEZ-REJÓN
Eva Longoria
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