381: For The Love The Grind: Sara Hall Talks Longevity, Choosing Love Over Fear & Running Her Own Race

On this week's episode of Hurdle, Emily sits down with professional runner Sara Hall. Sara is an athlete whose longevity, incredible range, and commitment to the sport are truly inspiring. She's also the only American athlete in history to win USATF National Titles in both the mile and the marathon.

Recorded in New York City on the weekend of the TCS New York City Marathon, this conversation highlights the depth of her incredible career. In it, Sara opens about her journey, the perseverance required for success, and the mental fortitude it takes to navigate the inevitable challenges—whether that’s a tough injury cycle, the complexities of competition, or even online critics.

IN THIS EPISODE

• The Power of Perseverance: We dive into the grit required for a long and successful professional running career.

• Love Over Fear: Sara opens up about the decision to adopt four children from Ethiopia and how that was rooted in choosing love over fear. The adoption included four girls, ages 5 to 15, all at once.

• The Emotional Tax of Sport: Sara discusses how to navigate the mental fortitude required to deal with challenges like injury cycles, competition complexities, and online criticism.

• Doping & Disappointment: Sara shares how she copes with the deep emotional tax of competing against athletes who were later disqualified for doping.

• Learning from Failure: She reveals how her biggest failure—coming in last at a US Championships—was actually a profound turning point in her life, helping her understand God's unconditional love.

• The Meaning of the Grind: Sara talks about what the "grind" means to her specifically at this chapter in her life, and her upcoming book, For the Love of the Grind.

• Rebounding: Sara shares her advice for moving on from big disappointments, including "slamming a bunch of coffee" and setting a new goal.

QUOTABLE MOMENTS

On Resilience and Perseverance

• "I want to be good period, not just good for my age."
• "What you speak over yourself is powerful."

On Motherhood and Family

• "We just chose love over fear... it was just like closing your eyes and jumping off a cliff and just choosing faith."

• "The word 'Berchi' [Amharic for 'Be Strong']... I was like, I want them to be like keep their Ethiopian toughness."

• "When you're happier, you run better."

On Identity and Self-Worth

• "You have to really have a love for the process, and an excitement to just continue to believe in what you're doing that holds you through all of it."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's not about place or pace or anything, right, It's
like just the feeling you get and the fun of it.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, Hey, Emily, here, you are listening to another episode
of Hurdle, a show that dives into the true stories
and mindset secrets of the most inspiring women in sports
and wellness, empowering.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
You to conquer your own hurdles.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
This week, I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation with
an athlete who's longevity, incredible range, and commitment to the
sport is truly inspiring, and that is Sarah Hall. Sarah
is the only American athlete in history to win USATF
national titles in both the mile and the marathon, a
testament to her incredible athletic journey.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I got up with Sarah right here in New.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
York on the weekend of the TCS New York City Marathon.
In this episode, we dive into the grit required for
a long and successful professional career, including the mental fortitude
it takes to navigate the inevitable challenges, whether that's a
tough injury cycle, the complexities of competition, or even.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
The online critics.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Sarah opens up about her unique personal journey in our
conversation today, including the decision to adopt four children from
Ethiopia and how that was rooted in choosing love over fear.
She talks about how motherhood has shaped her life and
her perspective on running, and we.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Also talk about her upcoming book, for.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
The Love of the Grind and what grind means to
her specifically at this chapter in her life now. As
you may know, Sarah ultimately decided to step off of
the course at mile seventeen of the New York City Marathon,
saying that she just didn't have it in her that day,
and I sent her so much respect for this decision.
I have no doubt that it was an incredibly tough call. Now,

(01:58):
the insights she shares in this conversation regards list. They're
a powerful reminder that every day offers a new opportunity
for growth, for learning, and the pursuit of your best self.
After the marathon, she shared a few ways she moves
on from big disappointments on her Instagram, including helping others,
slamming a bunch of coffee my personal favorite, coming back
to your breath, assooming out, and setting a new goal,

(02:21):
which I absolutely a doore make sure you are following
along with Hurdle over on social It's over at Hurdle podcast.
You can also check out Iheartwoman's Sports over at Iheartwoman's
Sports and me over at Emily a Body. Listen to
a hurdle with Emily a Body on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
And with that, let's get to it. Let's get to
hurdling today. I am sitting down with Sarah Hall.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
She is a pro runner for a six, she's a
former American record holder, and the half marathon, the marathon.
We have some fun backs to get to in today's episode.
Welcome to Hurdle Sarah.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
How are you?

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Thank you? I'm doing well, excited to be here in
New York.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Oh, we love it when the people come to play
in New York.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
So this is you.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
This will be coming out after the marathon. But you
this is your second New York's any marathon.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
This is my third time lining up, second hopefully finishing.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
There we go. How are you doing really right now? Oh?

Speaker 4 (03:25):
I'm really doing good.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
I'm like I feel so grateful to be here, like
being lining up, being able to like still be doing
this career.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
At forty two and like, yeah, it's just feeling really good.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I had an amazing run in Central Park yesterday, just
feeling like these are the days, like, oh, I just
love doing this.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I feel as though every conversation that I read, listen
to that you have, everyone's focused on your age.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
How does that make you feel?

Speaker 4 (03:54):
That's that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I feel like at first it was okay, because yeah,
you're approaching forty turn forty You're like and you're like.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
Yeah, I'm a master.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Like it was fun, you know, But now, yeah, it
does get a little bit like I don't want to
be good for my age, Like I just want to
be good period, right, and so like it is a
little bit like and she's this, but it's like, yeah,
but you know, I'm that's not That's not my goal
necessarily to like be good for a master's runner or something.
So it's it's an evolving process, like, you know, just
dealing with age and like as an athlete and stuff.

(04:26):
I think it's I'm kind of constantly, uh, just growing
into that and h and figuring out how I feel
about it and how to handle it and everything.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, it is so impressive though, because you set the
American record in the half marathon only three years ago.
So when people are saying good for XYB, it's like, no,
just to your point, just.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Good period, Well that's the goal.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, But then I think you do have to like
cut yourself slack at times and be like when you're
really hard on yourself about a performance, than be like,
but maybe it was good for forty two.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
So I guess it can like work both ways, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, totally speaking of having grace with yourself, do you
feel like you're good at having grace with yourself?

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm getting better And actually I listened to your podcast
recently on perfectionism, and I can like really relate to
some of the stuff you talked about because it's funny.
I don't think of myself as a perfectionist because if
you come to my house, it's like a total wreck,
and I'm like totally fine with mess and totally fine
with like disorganization.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
You know, I'm not like super type A in those ways.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, but actually I realized like I can be, yeah
with like my performances or certain things like just really
hard on myself. Like I've learned to get better because
I've realized as a mom that like, I'm better at
extending grace to like my kids or people around me
if I'm better at.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Extending it to myself. So I think they've made me
like really work on it.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, and that's something that you want to show them, right,
Like you want to model how important it is to
be kind to yourself because you wouldn't want them, I'm
assuming most of the time, maybe to say some of
the things that you were so freely saying to yourself.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Totally, Yeah, you want them to, like you can see
how it steals the joy of the moment when you're
like fixated on yeah, not quite living up to whatever
it was. Like my daughter called me the other day
after a cursed country race and she's like, I didn't
break nineteen and I really wanted to, you know, and
like you but like when you can step outside of
it when it's your kid and be like, I just
want you to have fun.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
I just want you to do your best, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
But then you're like, oh, I have to actually like
listen to that myself.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, you know it's so funny. I have a story
for you, and you won't remember this because you didn't
see me. I was just creeping on you. You after
the twenty twenty two World Championships in Oregon, you went
for a cool down run. You would come in fifth,
you were the first American, and you went for a
cool down run and you were like running near like
somewhere downtown Eugene where I was, and I saw you

(06:52):
go by, and I was just like looking at your
face and there was so much there. And I remember
thinking to myself, and now it's kind of crazy three
years later to have this opportunity to ask you what
goes through your head after such a major effort like
that in that marathon, And as you know, it requires

(07:12):
a lot of opportunity, costs, so much goes into one day,
one performance. And so I saw you running that day
and I thought to myself, if I ever sit down
with Sarah, I want to know what goes through her
head after an effort like that.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, when I think of that place, I think of
how much certain places hold memories, right like Eugene for
me holds so many because all our track championships are
their Olympic trials everything, and I had so much disappointment
on the track some awesome memories too, like I've made
you know, three world indoor teams and different things, but Eugene,
Like it was it was so interesting to be running

(07:51):
preest trails there probably that that run or even like
in the days leading up to and just remembering so
many cool downs just crush, just like your dream of
making the Olympics once again crushed, you know, and like
tearful cool downs in those pre trails. But then going
into that race, I was I was like just reflecting,

(08:11):
like wow, like like I never.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Stopped believing in myself.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
I'm like, here, I'm getting to run the World Championships
in Eugene, and like in this place that like and
I finally made that outdoor team that I had tried
so many times on the track to make it never
quite could and so it was this beautiful moment of
just realizing like I hadn't given up on myself, and
like the rewards of that was special.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, do you think that as we speak about your
journey with Grace, like you were as far along then
as you are now, I would say worlds.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
In Eugene, maybe not quite as far, but like getting there,
like it was really kind of towards the end of
my track career, I started to just really actually experience
like God's unconditional love in a way that like I
knew about it in my head, but I hadn't hadn't
like quite hit my heart like fully, or hadn't like
integrated it fully, and and so it really just took

(09:05):
a lot of failure just get to the point where
I actually experienced it. And it was like like God
telling me, like I couldn't be any more proud of
you if like you get last place, Like I just
love watching you run, you know, and like I'd like
never felt love like that. Like my parents like loved
me really well and like really unconditionally, but like I
could tell they were like stressed by my failures, right

(09:26):
like we're like just because they cared about me, and
they could see it was like hard for me, you know.
But just to like think of him just like beaming
like just so proud at me when I was like
really failing, like that changed like everything for me. And then, yeah,
I think ever since then, I think I've gotten a
little bit better about it. Each year of just like
getting freed up from fearing failure and just feeling like

(09:48):
if I do fall short of what I expect of myself,
like I can more quickly rebound.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what was the failure that you felt
like that really resonated with you around that time?

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Like I just placed, actually lasted the US Championships in
two thousand and nine and the five thousand meters on
the track, and it was humiliating, right, Like You're getting
paid to be a professional runner, to like win, to
like succeed, and I'm like, I don't even think I'm
good at this, you know.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Major gratitude to A six for their loyalty throughout my
career because it allowed me to get to the point
where I had my best races in my career at
like thirty eight thirty nine, you know, But like a
lot of other companies, I don't know if that would
have been the case, you know, Like I think after
races like two thousand and nine, that might have been
the end and I would have been okay, you know,
but I wouldn't have gotten to experience like just so
many moments that are gonna be like the favorite moments

(10:37):
of my life, you know. So I think, Yeah, it
was really in that real valley then where I was like, honestly,
I would have rather moved on from the sport probably
at the time. But Ryan was really thriving. He was,
you know, setting American records, like making Olympic teams. So
we were really rooted where we were in Mammoth and
so I felt really like trapped, honestly, Like I was

(10:59):
like the first time in my life, like I wasn't
getting to necessarily dictate my path, like where I wanted
to go. All of a sudden, I was like tied
to this person and like, yeah, I wanted to support
him in this phase of his career. So so yeah,
it was. It was a challenging season, but I think
I think, as often happens, like God can use those
really tough things to really get to you, you know,

(11:21):
in a deeper way than you haven't before.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, so you're touching on your husband, Ryan, who was
also a former pro runner. People might hear you talk
about this difficult season and wonder beyond that season, what
it's like when there are two people that are constantly
chasing their big potential for you, what would you say
is the peak of a relationship like this and what

(11:44):
could be kind of like you just spoke about the Valley.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Yeah, oh well, there's so many fun peak moments I
think of, like here in New York, like seeing him
win the trials, like in one of those races where
the marathon seemed to get easier as it went for him,
you know, and it was just I've never seen anything
like that, honestly, and it was such a fun ride,
like so incredible. But yeah, there were challenging moments for sure,
and I talk about it a lot in my book
For the Love of the Grind that's coming out in April.

(12:10):
He might be here for my.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Indoor race where I win the Millrose Games, and it's like,
all of a sudden though, it's like I'm seeing more
as like Ryan's wife then, like I'm used to be
in the star right, Like I like we kind of
were the same level in high school and college and everything,
but but then early in our careers, like his career
just really took off. And then so people would be
like comfort a photo and hand me the phone, right

(12:33):
like they'd be like take the photo of us, and uh,
and you know that's like ego and stuff. But at
the time, you know, you're just processing it all, like
you're like it was a really fun ride.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
But there were yeah, just moments where.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
You're like, oh, this is different, you know, like Okay,
I used to them taking the photo with me. But yeah,
I think the hardest part was just not maybe getting
to pursue what I felt called to, which was international
development work. So like I never really dreamed of doing
this pro running thing as long as I have, for sure,
but especially at the time, like I thought I'd just

(13:05):
do it for a little while and then move on
to that. But but then all of a sudden, when
his career took off, it was like, no, we're like
there's no moving to you know, Africa to do development work,
Like we're stuck here and so but in the end
it was wonderful because it kept me in the sport
longer than I would have and then I'm getting to
enjoy it now and so so.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, you never know how your path is gonna unfold.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
But enjoy it now.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Do you feel as though maybe you're enjoying it more
now than you have for a while?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Definitely later, Yeah, in the later years, Like I would say, now,
it's been a little at this very moment, a little
more challenging, just because like I want to be in
like American record shape like I was at times, and
like I'm just not quite there right now.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
But yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
I mean in those years where I was chasing American
records just a couple of years ago and stuff, it
was really fun and like really like just rewarding to
have persevered for so long and to like get back
to that kind of place.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
When you say I want to be in shape to
chase records and I'm not right now, what I hear
you say is I still wholeheartedly believe and feel as
though these are within my grasp.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Is that how you feel?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I feel like a curiosity that they could be and
then but I feel kind of a sense of like
anything can happen, but nothing has to happen kind of
thing like I think, Yeah, I think that that could
be obviously more and more challenging as I grow older,
But I don't know. I think if my career has
taught me anything, it's not to put limits on myself.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
And I think so at this point, I'm not going to.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Start right because I think I've really.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Tried to be intentional not to speak things.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Over myself in my career of like especially with age,
like my first pro coach Terrence Madhen. I heard him
say to Dina Castor, who was my teammate at the time,
and she was she was only like thirty one or
thirty two or something, and she's like, oh, I can't
do any more of these squats, like I'm old. And
he's like, he's like, Dina, when you start seeing you're old,
you start the cl you know. And like ever since

(15:02):
I heard that, like I was only like maybe twenty
three at the time, but it.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Just like stuck with me.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
The yeah, like what you speak over yourself is like powerful,
you know. And and she obviously went on to have
a really long career and stuff, but I filed that away.
And so I think I've I've just tried to, yeah,
just always believe that it's possible and just keep an
open mind.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
What do you think has been one of the most
progressive things that you've spoken over yourself, Like, what has
been something that you've said to yourself that you really
do feel has shown up for you.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, I like to write my mirror goals on my mirror,
and so like it's kind of like as I'm looking
in the mirror, like I'm seeing those things like underneath me.
So yeah, that's always been really powerful for me, Like
and I'll write like, you know, Olympian, like twenty twenty Olympian,
or like American record holder things. And at the time
where I set the American record, that was the only
thing written on my mirror, you know, And so that

(15:55):
was really cool. And what was awesome was my kids.
I came home from that race and they had written
all over the mirror like you did it, and like
I didn't even know they had like seen it, And
so it was cool to just realize, like, your kids
are watching.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I don't know what the most powerful would be, but yeah,
I like to to keep them visible, to.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Keep them visible, and that again talk about that modeling behavior, right,
like they're watching when you don't even realize that they're watching.
I know that becoming a mother was something that was
so important to you, and so now in this second
phase of your career, having the opportunity to do both
is a really awesome component to the story. Do you

(16:35):
feel that the joy that your children bring into your
life has benefited you on the run as well?

Speaker 4 (16:41):
It has for sure.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I Mean I don't think anyone could argue motherhood is
like performance enhancing, right, It's like it's definitely really challenging
to juggle both. I'm sure, yeah, plenty of people have
spoken to that, but I think it's it's tough. Like
I definitely sometimes miss my old life when I got
to like really focus on the sport. But then but yeah,
I mean there's so much too that comes in having

(17:04):
a richer, happier life that helps your performance too. Like
I think when I didn't have kids in our life
was kind of all revolving around running.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
There's a pressure that comes with that.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
There's kind of like an emptiness kind of like you're
putting your life on hold for this thing that creates pressure,
you know. And so I think like now, like my kids,
they had so much joy, like in richness and fun.
Then I was just doing a training camp away from
home actually, and like I came home early because I was.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Like, I just like wouldn't be around them, like they're
just like I just miss them. And so yeah, it's
it's been there, for sure, the greatest blessing in my life.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
But I think it trickles over. When you're happier, you
run better. I would say in.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
General, adopting them in twenty fifteen was a big decision,
especially going all in with all the kids. Yeah, at once,
talk to me about the decision to go all in.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, it was a tough decision.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Even just having kids at the time was a tough
one for me because like, I was really enjoying my career.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
It was I was.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Finally having some success after a lot of struggle, and
but Ryan was kind of going the other way, like
his career is wrapping up, and he like wanted kids
like yesterday, you know, And so I think I was like,
you know, well, adoption, you know, it's what we always
wanted to do, and I think it takes a while,
so I'm okay just starting the process because it could
take years, you know. But then in the end it

(18:22):
accelerated because we met them and in a way that
we didn't expect to and so so yeah, you know,
it was Honestly, I wanted to feel a real clear,
like word from God about it, or like a real
peace that these are my kids, because like I had
no idea what it was going to be like to
adopt four kids ages five to fifteen years old that

(18:42):
had been through a lot of trauma, everyone we talked
to had had a really difficult road that had adopted
older kids, specifically from Ethiopia or from like other countries. Yeah,
and so I think we kind of were counting the
cost internally. Everyone was like count the cost, like you're
not gonna be able to do what you're doing right now.
And I believed in like the cause, so like part

(19:04):
of me wanted to be selfless enough, like wanted to
be willing to do that, but there was a part
of me that wasn't. Like I was like, no, I'm
really loving what I'm doing, like I love my life,
and so it was it was a hard decision.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
In the end.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Ryan really said something that I feel like helped, and
he was like, you know, I can't think of anything
any reason not to do this that isn't based in fear.
And I was like, yeah, like all my reasons are
fear based. And so in the end we just chose
love over fear. And like it just felt like like, yeah,
I wanted that clear word or that clear piece and

(19:40):
I didn't have that.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
But it was just like closing your.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Eyes and like jumping off a cliff and just just choosing,
you know.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, and so bringing home four girls all at once.
What was the most challenging part of that for you?

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I think the most challenging part was like feeling
like I was playing a role, Like I kind of
felt like I was like a suburban mom or something,
or I was like in a sitcom, like driving them
in our big old you know, suv to school, and
I was like, this doesn't feel real. It feels like
I'm like acting, you know. And even like you know,
our attachment as a family is it's grown over the years,

(20:17):
and like it's it doesn't automatically. You don't feel like
the mom of a fifteen year old that's like practically.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
A woman, you know, Like it's just not biological.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
And I knew that that would be the case, and
like talking to a therapist was like just accept it
for what it is, you know, and like that really
helped to just be like, yeah, like of course we
would feel this way about, you know, and then talking
to other families and they're like give it five years,
you know, and then sure enough, like yeah, like over time,
like your attachment does grow, like you have shared memories

(20:45):
together and shared experiences and so so yeah, all of.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
Those things I think we're we're challenges, but like.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Something that you you just don't know what's going to improve,
like later, like is our attachment gonna you know, like
you hope it will, but you just don't know. So
I think the uncertainty of that sometimes is hard.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Was there guilt or shame associated with that at times?

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Definitely? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
I think I think shame that like you want to
feel like more love than you do at the time
or something, and I did have love in my heart
for my kids from the beginning, but it's like you
want them to feel like your kids, you know. And
that's what people are afraid of a lot of times
with adoption, and it's a valid fear. But I think
what people don't realize is like they do become your kids,

(21:29):
and it doesn't take long, and it doesn't it's not
as hard. It happens naturally and it happens really like
it just becomes instinct, you know, and it's it's not work.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I would imagine also that because of the wide age range,
you are learning so many different things.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
At once, like how am I dealing with.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Littles under five and then also this fifteen year old
And these are lessons that so many people like get
to learn along the way and you're just thrown into it.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, there are a lot of dynamics too, because the
language barriers and my kids didn't speak any English when
we met them and then we're you know, learning it
quickly when they got home. But there's that, there's the
cultural barriers, there's the different ages. There's like teenagers biologically
are pulling away from their parents, and that's a very
healthy natural thing at that age, right, But we were

(22:22):
trying to connect at a time where you're naturally you
would be like pulling away from your parents. So so yeah,
you have all those dynamics like their their family of origin,
you know, what their norms were and their experiences and stuff.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
So yeah, their native language is pronounced Amharic. Okay, So
is there a word or a phrase in that language
that you felt like really started to resonate with you
from the get go.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I've no one's ever asked that, But yes, there's a
phrase the runners say a lot, which is burchie if
you're a girl.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
It's berta if you're saying it to a man.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
But it means be strong, but it's kind of like
tough enough up like be strong or like it can
also be like kind of compassion if you get hurt
or something like be strong. And in Ethiopia they run
in like single file lines and if you even let
a little gap open up between the person in front
of you, that.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Like Burchie, Burchie, like get up there, like kind of
encouraging you.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
But I like to encourage the runners here, like on
Sunday at the starting line, I'll be telling them Berchie.
But it's something I would say a lot with my
kids too, like cause I kind of wanted them to
keep that mental.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Toughness I saw with people over there.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
I think, you know, like sometimes in the US kids
can be a little bit soft or like caught older
things at times, and so I was like I wanted
them to be like keep their Ethiopian toughness, you know.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Their toughness.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
And I think it's so admirable and obviously understandable that
you took it upon yourselves to learn the language so
that you could do the best that you could with
the girls. And I'm sure that although they may not
have had a full understanding of what was going on,
they appreciated that you were making that effort, I hope.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
So, yeah, I wanted to meet them like halfway because yeah,
typically international adoption, you swoop in, grab the kids, bring
them to this like completely different alien planet, you know,
and like expect them to do all the changing and adapting.
But but yeah, we were hoping to try to help.
Like we spend a lot of time over there in
the process, learning their culture, seeing them in context of

(24:20):
Ethiopia and stuff, and I think that helped.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
And you had spent a good chunk of time there,
not only in the process of the adoption, but then
also you've trained there as well. What do you feel
like that process really brought to you as an individual?

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, it's one of the greatest privileges of my life.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I feel like to be able to be embraced by
a team over there and really get to experience like
the running culture, not as like a truist as much.
I mean, I still was, but I feel like, you know,
people will go to Kenyan Ethiopian, they're kind of like observing,
but like I got to really join in with the team,
and that was one of the things I was excited
to share with the running community because I feel like
a lot of people haven't trained in Ethiopia or and

(24:57):
definitely like not in the context of like that I
got to, and so it was really fun to I
was actually writing those parts over there, and it was
like reminding me of all all the fun, quirky aspects
of training there. But I think when the biggest takeaway
I got from my time training there was learning to
like keep my peace because there it's like just so

(25:19):
chaotic a lot of times, like on the roads, like
there's stray dogs, there's donkey carts like cutting you off.
There's like a bus coming and exhaling smoke all around you,
and like and already I have no idea what the
workout is a lot of times, like because I don't
speak the language fluently, and the pace isn't you know,
it's not being dictated by me or a pa, my

(25:40):
pacemaker or something.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
And so there was like a.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Wildness about training there that I feel like I bring
now to the race on Sunday that like the chaos
of the bottle stops there that's like normal for me.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Like like they're even more chaotic over there.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
And so I really learned how to just like find
my peace in the chaos and even just like daily
life there is it's you know, everything doesn't run quite
like it does as efficiently always as here, and so
that was I feel like it's been sticking.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I would imagine that that chaos and being able
to come back here it really gives you a deep
appreciation for like some of the things that are just
so easy here in the United.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
States for sure. Yeah, And I think there's its pros
and cons. Like I think there's all beautiful things about
warm weather cultures that are awesome, like where when they're
not as maybe exact with time and stuff, there's more
of like a relationalness where it's like, yeah, where you
can just drop in on people.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
And stay as long as you want. You know, those
things are really beautiful too.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
But but yeah, I think it's really it's fun to
step into other cultures because it really makes you kind
of evaluate your own norms.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
You are.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
This is a Sarah Hall fun fact. The only American
athlete in history to win USATF national titles in both
the mile and the marathon.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
That's some wild range, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
When I say that back to you and we think
about that transition moving away from the track and going
out onto the roads, where's their fear and that decision
on your part a little bit, I.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Think just because you never know what's possible ahead, And
I think it's the same thing that kind of keeps
me in the sport now, right, is like you never
know what might be ahead, and so I think on
the track, like, I still loved being fast and sprinting,
like I was a fifteen hundred meter runner for a while,
So I think moving to the marathon, like you're like,
but I like to sprint and like do all out
two hundreds.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And it was really just a breath of friends shared it.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
I've always loved cross country, and I feel like the
roads is kind of like our equivalent of cross country.
So when I kind of framed it that way in
my mind, I was more excited.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
And you also love running on the trails a huge
part of what you get to do regularly as a
part of your training. Growing up, you would do a
lot of trail running kind of in a maybe a
different way than a conventional runner. For you, what is
it about being able to be outside and be on
the trails that really gives back to you and really

(28:28):
aligns with your spirit.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I really love how you have to be really present
in the trails, Like it's like you have to be
looking at your steps or you'll trip right. And so
I feel like there's like a meditativeness of that where
maybe on a wider road or even more even surface,
like you want to be listening to music or podcasts
or you kind of be thinking about other stuff, but
the trails kind of keep you really present. And also, yeah,
like you said, brings me back to kind of my

(28:51):
roots in the sport and how I fell in love
with the sport. And so yeah, I would love to
race in the trails at some point, and I think
that that day's coming closer, but yeah, for now, I
try to train in them when I can.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
I would love to race in the trails some point.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
There is like this like narrative going on with like
women marathon rs that like, once you decide that you
just don't want to run marathons anymore, I would be like, Okay,
maybe I'll go back to has or five k's, and
then all these elites are like I'm going to hit
the trails, which is just wild to me because it's
like I'm just gonna keep going forever. That is just
the mentality that it requires to be out there on

(29:28):
your feet for such a long time I think is
really beautiful. What you're doing is already like so incomprehensible
for so many They like, you run how far?

Speaker 3 (29:37):
How fast? That's so crazy?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
But then the desire to continue to challenge yourself in
this new way I think is really impressive. What is
it about the curiosity that goes.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Hand in hand with that? Have you always been a
curious person?

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Oh? Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I've always been someone similar to Ryan where we like
to push ourselves physically to like like when I was
a young kid, I'd be like, I'm going to try
to rollerblade to the beach today and it's like thirty
miles from my house, you know, like just something like that.
Like now that I have kids, I'm like, yeah, I
guess that wasn't normal because they don't say that stuff.
But yeah, I think I think that's still there where

(30:14):
it's like, oh, I wonder what one hundred male Reice
would feel like, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
But a lot of it is the process too.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Like Ryan's running a lot in the trails and he
just comes back and he's like, you don't know what
you're missing out there? It's like so amazing, and so
a lot of it is just knowing you would enjoy
that process too.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, what else are you curious about right now, like
beyond the trails, whether it's about running or maybe it's
not about running, what is interesting you?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, well, curious as far as running to see how
good I can still be in my forties, for sure.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
I think that's kept me going.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
I'm also really working right now to start our very
own project in Ethiopia. There's over sixty thousand kids living
on the streets just in the capital city alone, and
so up till now, we've supported other organizations through our charity,
the Whole Steps Foundation, that are doing work with these kids.
But we're in the process of starting our own project

(31:06):
and so yeah, it's it's a big learning curve as
we hire staff, and so I'm I'm excited. It's also like,
you know, it's gonna be challenging, like working with the
government there and everything can be challenging. But I just
had a moment where, you know, we're I was out
there training last December and we're driving by a warehouse
and there was like over a thousand kids in this

(31:28):
warehouse that.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
The government had just kind of like rounded up and
put in there.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
And it was it was just a moment where you're like,
I'm not okay with this, like like not on my
watch kind of moment, you know. And so so yeah,
we're gonna be doing job training, housing rehabilitation, and career
like training and everything for these kids is kind of
the vision. So so yeah, I'm excited and curious like
about that process.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's so cool to hear you say, I saw this thing,
I wasn't okay with it. I knew I wanted to
do something about it. The difference between you and many
is there's that desire to do something about it, and
then there's taking the initiative and asking the questions so
that you can. Can you talk a little bit about

(32:13):
that process of one goes about asking the right questions
in this circumstance because to your point, such a crazy
learning curve.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, it's a good point, because you know, starting a
project isn't always the answer, right. I think, like number one,
it's like supporting local people that are doing the work.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
If you can.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
And so I've worked to build relationships in Ethiopia first
over a number of years, and it was going to
those people and saying, hey, do you feel like there's
a need for another project or if we provided funds,
like can you just scale up what you're doing well,
you know, and so kind of taking the time to
do that, having people you really trust that can give

(32:52):
you an honest answer with that, right, And I feel
really grateful that I've been able to make those relationships
and and in the end they did encourage us, like, hey,
let's partner, but yeah, I think there is like a
need for someone else to come alongside us.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, and viewing it that way, viewing it as let's
help each other instead of either assuming that you're gonna
have to do it all or they're going to do
it all and you're not going to be able to
be as actively involved as you want. Like, that's so special,
And I think that that's a really foundational point and
helpful tip for anyone that's looking to start something or

(33:27):
get involved in something. It's like, be okay asking for help.
Someone's probably done something along the lines of whatever it
is that you're interested in doing. So don't be afraid
to ask questions. Yeah, asking and asking questions is going
to be super intimidating as well.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Absolutely Yeah, I think really honoring what people have done
well too, like is really important and just like I
feel like we've we've really taken the time to like
do our research there and like really just celebrate people
because it's definitely challenging and you need a lot of
courage to take stuff on there.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yeah, courage is such a keyword.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
You also mentioned, of course a couple of times now
your book coming out next year.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Congratulations, very exciting. So along those lines.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Of the title of the book, what would you say
that your personal definition of grind is and has that
evolved maybe as your self compassion has increased as well.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
That's a good question. Yeah, I think it has. I
think there's you know, hustle culture was really big for
a while. It's like no days off and like grind
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
And I don't think that's necessarily what I mean when
I say grind, but probably was at one point right earlier,
where it was like just be tougher, just go harder.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
And now it's it's not.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think like parenting is a grind, right, It's like
it's not always just like stuffed towards your goals, but
it's it's just realizing like when you're trying to be
excellent at things, when you're trying to show up for people,
when you're parenting kids, coming out of trauma, you know,
all these things, Like it just takes like perseverance. There's
going to be like ups and downs that I talk
all throughout the book and stuff. There's weather thwarting your

(35:03):
record attempts, there's doping, there's you know, there's all these things,
and you have to really have a love for the
process and like an excitement to just continue to believe
in what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
That like keep that hold you through all of it.
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, you said the D word. So I'm going
to talk about you've been in races where women who
finished ahead of you were later disqualified for doping, which
meant their victory was fraudulent. What would you say is
the deepest emotional tax that doping takes on a clean
athlete like you. So you've been in the game for
so long, you've been working for so long, we find

(35:39):
out what happens in these awful instances.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
How does that impact you emotionally?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, I think you get a mix of emotions, like,
you know, anger, kind of frustration. My mind tends to
go back to, Yeah, how didn't just impact my race, like,
but also the training, Like you're dreaming of that race,
like you're dreaming of what it's going to take to
beat this person.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's kind of how much your energy went around that
and you're like, or the expectations that were on you
to beat this person, and then that person was.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
They were disappointed with you.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
You know, your mind just kind of starts to replay
these things, and you know, I try to lead into
empathy and just realize, like I don't know what it's
like to maybe grow up in a country where there's
extreme poverty, like and from a young age, you're really
worried about survival.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
And I mean, of course i'd never condone doping or
like to a means to that end or something, but
you also just, yeah, I've never lived that before, you know,
But I wouldn't say empathy is like the first emotion
I go.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
To, not the first one.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, I you know, I kind of had a
hunch that you would go in that way, And I
think that just shows how strong of a person that
you are and how compassionate of a person that you are.
I definitely think it's entirely understandable also to feel all
of this anger and frustration because you don't work hard

(37:09):
for things not to go as you'd hoped, and then
to get a wrench like that thrown into the mix.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, I can't even I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, I try to remind myself that, like in business,
people are cheating, like in all different areas of business, right,
and it's like kind of have to be okay with
your performance, like being feeling like you did the absolute best.
And Bryan was actually always really good at that, like
he was really good at comparing himself to himself and
almost like of course he wanted to like win every

(37:38):
major he went out to, but like he he's taught
me a lot about that, and so I think it's that,
And then it's also just really loving the process. Like
when you love what you're doing, it's not a means
to that end. And so if that the end result
gets taken away from for some reason, it's not like
that was all not worth it because you loved it,
you know.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
So that's part of it too.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Now for those that may not fully understand or like
know what's happening like right now within the climate of
women's running. Would you say that this seemingly is becoming
something we're seeing more often.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I think what's awesome is like the World Marathon Majors
are doing a really great job, and Athleics Integrity Unit
is doing a great job out of competition testing and
with a biological passport. I think it's probably just more
people getting caught more frequently.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Which is encouraging.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
It's as like angry and frustrating as you are, you're
also have that other emotion of like, yay, this system
is getting better and stuff, So that's encouraging.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
And then for those that don't know, so like for instance,
for you, you came in second to a marathon to
someone that now has been found that she doped. With
that circumstance, someone's question is do you get retroactively awarded anything?

Speaker 4 (38:49):
Not right now?

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So I think it has to be a positive test
as far back as when that event happened. So yeah,
there's no proving that the person was that day or
like as far back as any other result than from
when they tested positive.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
But I think there could be some change with that too.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
I think as athletes, I think we're wanting to work
with race directors and over policies around these things and
be like, hey, like maybe if you sign something where
you're like, if I ever test positive, like my records
or my things are going to be wiped. I think,
you know, every race can decide what they want to do, yeah,
and if you want to run that race, you have

(39:30):
to comply with those rules. So I think maybe we
can see some change there.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think it would be really special to be able
to have more of that open dialogue between organizers and athletes,
making the athletes feel like they're a more integral part
of the conversation, because without the athletes, there's there's none
of it, right, Yeah, yeah, there's none of it now.
Speaking of the state of sport bigger than that, the
state of women's sports right now, it's a very different

(39:55):
ballgame right now than it was when you got into
the mix here. How do you feel about the state
of women's sports as a whole and what is your
kind of hope moving forward.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, it's so exciting to see what's happening and in
women's sports, and it specifically our sport, Like it's so
cool to see the depth coming and like these young
I feel like when I came out of college being
a professional runner. It seemed like it was something only
the top people really took on, or a couple other
brave people wanting to go for it and try to
be development runners. But now it seems like there's just

(40:27):
so much more depth coming from college that are like, yeah,
I want to run professionally, Like there's less pressure to
like start a family right away or anything like that.
Like it's like I love seeing yeah, just girls going
for it at all ages. And I also love to
see people like in their forties, like still believing like
amazing days are ahead and that's really cool too, and

(40:48):
so so yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
It's it's an exciting time.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's tough, right, it's getting more competitive in the US
and world ride.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
I feel like the marathon in general, but definitely really exciting.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
When you think about the women that have help helped
guide you along this sport, How does it feel for
you now to think that, hey, I'm probably this person
for other women coming up as well.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
Yeah, gosh, I hope.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
So I mean, yeah, I got really lucky having Dina
Castor and Jen Ryan's as mentors. They were already in
their like late twenties early thirties when I joined first
came out of college, and they really helped me learn
how to take a more professional approach to the sport.
And and also just like I just learned through their
mentality just watching them too.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
So so yeah, I hope I can be that for
other people. I think.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, I think what's cool about social media is it's
your You can share more even if you're not in
the same place, whereas before we didn't have that.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
So sometimes the sharing is good and sometimes the sharing
is not so good. Do you feel like, because obviously
that has really, you know, grown in popularity since you
started in this sport, do you feel like for you
that it has been more of a tool or perhaps
sometimes more of a hindrance when it comes to your
mindset and showing up and knowing that so many people

(42:04):
are right behind the keyboard to chime in.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
Yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
In my book, I taught you see the whole arc
of my relationship with the media or like criticism, online
criticism and stuff like that. When I started in high school,
like that was a real detriment to me mentally, like
just experiencing myself being like torn apart by people on
an anonymous message board, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
A tell me more I need to know.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Well, yeah, you'll have to like read it all the
whole story. But you know, I think I was in
sophomore year and I just it was like the dawn
of the Internet because I was, you know, I'm forty
two now, so but I just stumbled upon it and
it was like pictures of me critiquing my body, like
critiquing like my performance.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
And I think it's just at an.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Age where you're you just want love and belonging as
a high school girl, right, And it was just and
I wasn't used to the internet, like and so it
was like and something happened in that moment where I realized, oh,
if I fail, I can lose love and belonging from people,
you know. And then I really that was kind of
like the seed of fear and failure that I kind

(43:11):
of battled for years after that and so so yeah,
and obviously as I grew and matured and now I
handle it a lot differently.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
I don't seek it out. I know how to like
and even if I do come across it, like, I'm tougher,
you know, but I just have a lot of compassion
for that high school girl too. And also I think.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
It's good to just learn how to be confident in
your path to aside from others opinions. And I had
to deal with family's opinions along my career, you know,
like it's kind of like learning all of those things,
like how do I stay true to my path, like
regardless of what these voices are saying.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
You know, there's no roadmap to doing this, so that's
not lost on me. But I'm sure from your journey
of getting to this place where you understand that your
self worth and your identity is not completely wrapped up
and being a runner, that took a certain special set
of skills and a certain special amount of self talk.

(44:07):
Any tips you can offer someone who may feel like
they are in the struggle point of being really unsure
about their identity and self worth.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that's actually a big value
of the process of running something you can get out
of it. Personally, is like learning to find your identity
in who you are apart from what you do. You know,
and that took me a long time, like into my
professional career to figure that out. For me, it was
my faith was a big part of that like, just
what does God say about me, like in the Bible

(44:36):
or when I pray, Like what is he saying?

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Who I am?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
You know, especially when I'm getting last at the US Nationals,
I no longer I am getting that like I'm a success
from my performances. So that's where I turned. But also
I think the people that love you no matter what,
can probably tell you to.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
How does running make you feel, Sarah.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Happy and alive?

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Like I was just I flew in here last night
and I went out running in Central Park in the darkness,
and I was like just having the best time.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
I was like, these are the days. I love this
so much.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
And I think, I think that's what's cool is you
can have that if you tune into the feeling, no
matter what the watch says, no matter what your performance says,
like you can always have that, you know, and so
even as you age, even if you know that's what
special is that we can always still come back to
that feeling.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
What else in your life gives you that kind of joy?

Speaker 4 (45:47):
Ooh, that's a good question. I think just being in
beautiful places and like being with people you really love,
just having like a collective experience together. I think both
of those things.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Do someone comes to your social media and they see
both a loving mother and then also this woman that
has had such an impressive and long successful career within
this sport. But when you look in the mirror, Sarah,
what is it that you see looking back at you?

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Hmmm, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I think someone that like just really tried hard, like
to do the best she could in all areas, and
like because she really cared, like cared about people, cared
about what she was doing.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, but that also just like really loved the grind
of it, of all of it, you.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Know, yeah, the grind of it.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
And again, like I appreciate what you said earlier about
that time and I remember it well when like hustle
was like so glorified and now it really more so.
Is like, are you taking enough time for yourself?

Speaker 3 (46:55):
For you? What does taking time for you typically look like?

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
I think a lot of times my run is that
time like I want to just go be in the trails,
like in a beautiful place, like by myself or with
the kids or something like. That's what I found is
like I try to focus on things I.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Actually enjoy, like doing them with the kids, and.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Then it's not just like doing things for them or
like it's trying to help them with things, but it's
actually like I actually enjoy them and enjoy the thing
in the moment. Other than that, Yeah, the running, I
feel like is like my passion and the fun part and.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
The fun part.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
It's so funny because I feel as though ninety nine
percent of time and I'm like, what do you do
for you?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Every athlete is like I do my sport.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
It really is right, It's like, yeah, it's your passion
and hobby and everything too, as well as your career.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I'm sure all the time you get asked, you know,
for someone that feels as though they could never be
a runner or I'm no good at this, like how
do they get out there? So I'm going to bring
it to the table for the people listening. Maybe they
have dabbled in the sport, but they just don't feel
as though they're good at it.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
What advice do you have to offer them?

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, well, I want to say it's it's never too late.
Like my mom started running in her mid fifties. She
ran a half marathon a year in marathon two years
in and she'd never done sports, never done and I
just kept encouraging her. It's like takes a bit to
get over the hump, and now she's like addicted to it.
She gets the endorphins, she loves it. I mean it's
not about yeah, when you say like they don't feel

(48:30):
like they're good at it, Like, it's not about place
or pace or anything, right, it's like just the feeling
you get and the fun of it. And she got
there like pretty quickly, So.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, quickly. And you yourself have had such an evolution.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Not only do we talk about being great on the
track and then also on the roads, but when you
ran your first marathon in twenty fifteen, you ran it
in two forty eight, and now your personal best is
almost thirty minutes faster. What do you think is the
secret sauce to.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
That, Oh, underperforming a lot in your first marathon, but
but also yeah, I think after that I kind of
improved just like a minute of marathon every time out.
So that was each one of those minutes was us
experimenting and training. Ryan and I was just getting a
little better at the same things we were doing and

(49:16):
loving the process, and improvement's addictive. So each one of those,
like constantly improving just kept me coming back for more.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
It's so crazy because you say we were progressing a
minute at a time and someone hears that and they're like,
how do you keep going? And so obviously a big
part of that is the joy for the journey, right,
And I'm sure that's something that you've had to learn
over time, because more often than not, I mean, you're
giving it your best, but you might not always be
getting the result that you're after.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Right for sure.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, And that's where you can have a lot of
things for your end result. And so it was really
like those times that it did, I would tell Ryan, like,
I wouldn't have changed the thing because I loved every
bit of the training we did for this race, you know.
But but yeah, in those races, I guess I did
just hit good days and was able to keep the improvements.
And it wasn't all linear like I would have a

(50:06):
couple you know, once it didn't go well.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
But yeah, for the.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Most part, You're it's more like evaluating it based on
like if you didn't have the result come all together,
it's like did we move the ball forward in training?

Speaker 4 (50:20):
And so that's always rewarding.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
You said that you're still in it to win it
right now, that you're still seeing what's the balance of
your potential on the roads as an athlete. I'm curious
when was the closest that you came to hanging up
your sneakers. Sounds so weird, but to saying all right,

(50:42):
maybe I'm done now so far probably in the thick
of this really long injury cycle I was in from
twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, I had more days for a year and there
where I couldn't run than I could, which had never
happened to me in the sport, and I was just
not sure my body could do this anymore.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
I was like, you know, maybe, Like.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
I've done this so much longer than I thought I could,
And I'm really grateful for everything the sport's giving me.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Like I had a.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Team that really believed there were more days ahead and
kept me in it and kept teaching me how to
rebuild my body, and so so here I am.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
And yeah, rebuild my body. Elaborate a little bit on that.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, well, I mean it took a lot of strength work,
It took a lot of changing my mechanics Yeah, I
talk a lot about the specifics in my book of
that process, but definitely I think as you age, like
your chassis can start to break down, you know, And
so I had to really change how I was running.
And and it's little things, right, Like it's my form

(51:40):
isn't like drastically different than it was before, but those
little things can really help. And yeah, this last build up,
you know, I started with a little bit of a
foot injury, but the rest of the actual marathon training
for four months, I didn't miss a single day, you know.
And so it's it's cool to feel my body handling it.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Again.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
You haven't worked for twenty years to get to this
point and be like, all right, I'm gonna throw it
all out the window.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
But you do the best you can of what you have.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's about the best version of you.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
You know, your type?

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Yeah, your type.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
All right, as we wind down here, Sarah, my question
for you, what else are you excited about right now?

Speaker 1 (52:14):
I'm excited about this project in Ethiopia. I'm excited about
my book and just getting to like share so many
things that I've learned along the ways. Really was my
heart behind it, Like, and I think in the process
of the book, I'll get to meet a lot of
people because I think sometimes we at least hunker down,
you know, we really focused on performance before the race.
But it's gonna like allow me to really spend more time.
And MEB told me, he's like, you're gonna love that

(52:35):
part of it, and he's he's such a like amazing
guy with that stuff.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
So yeah, I'm excited to just meet a lot more
runners out there.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Why now for the book, Well, I.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Started it in twenty twenty just I felt like there
were things I'd learned in my career that it allowed
me to have my best year ever that year, even
though it was a year a lot of people were
struggling and with motivation and things like that. But I
really felt like my story wasn't done and so I
wanted to like see it unfold a little bit more.
And it's still not done now, but I still I

(53:04):
wanted to write it at a time where I was
still doing a lot of road racing and could like
still yeah, like be able to be at a race
to race but also do stuff with meeting people and stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
So yeah, you still wanted to be in the mix.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Yeah, yeah, And I think it just felt like time. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, you gotta trust your gut, right, uh huh.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Right, now you have an opportunity to offer yourself a
piece of advice.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
I want to go back to.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I mean, you so beautifully talked about that time where
you were like, Ryan is succeeding. I just don't know
if this is working for me. What are we doing here?
I am leaning one way he is taking off. What's
going on right now? Knowing what you know now about life,
about yourself, you have the opportunity to offer that version

(53:52):
of you a piece of advice.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
What would you tell her?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Enjoy the moment, Like, enjoy this fun ride with Brian
and know that, like your moments are coming and just
keep in join the process, enjoyed the journey, and like
just wait and be patient.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Be patient, same kind of advice.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
When we think about the hurdle moment of you navigating
that injury twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, like you're gonna get back to being able to
trust your body again and you're gonna learn.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
So much about yourself in the process. So hang in.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
There, Hang in there.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
There is nothing worse than wanting to do something and
knowing that it's not on your best interest.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Yeah, like nothing worse.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
It's tough.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
It is tough, and I think that that's a true
skill to be able to exercise that restraint and also
like a level of maturity that is, like it doesn't
matter how old you get, like you always struggle with it.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Oh okay, Sarah Hall, I'm so glad that you were
able to come in today. For those that aren't following
along with you just yet, give me the details. Where
do they keep up with you? At your Instagram all
that stuff? Okay, Yeah, my Instagram's at Sarah s A.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
R A. Hall the number three. Yeah, I'm on the
other platforms at that too.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Why three?

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Actually it's a that's funny story.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
There's a Bible verse about like a quard of three
strands is not easily broken and Ryan I always liked
that one. It was like us and God like together,
like if we stay close to God, like we're gonna
keep our connections stronger and stuff.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
So and then it just stuck. Ever since.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast
Another Hurdle Conquered.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Catch you guys next time.