Hamsters Can't Laugh (S1 E11, “Paris Is Burning”)

Not only is Mara Wilson known for her iconic roles in Matilda and Mrs. Doubtfire, she is a Gilmore Super Fan.

Scott wants her perspective on all things "Paris is Burning". Let's be honest, everything Scott predicted would happen, is now sadly becoming a reality. Despite our love for Max Medina, things are falling apart....tears, excruciating heartache, a breakup, disagreements between Lorelai and Rory, Emily and Lorelai, Paris and Rory. It's all falling apart.  

L Laryngitis, M Mumps, N Narcolepsy

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in, kiss you, I am all in
with Scott Patterson and I Heart Radio podcast. Everybody, it's uh,

(00:23):
Scott Patterson here with the I Am all In Podcast
from my Heart Radio. Man, what an episode. Paris is burning.
There's a lot more burning than Paris. I would say,
Max Medina and Laurel I are burning, Emily is burning
down at Laurel I. Rory is burning down at Paris

(00:44):
and burning her down, and man burning down Laureli. It's unbelievable. Listen, guys,
I hate to tell you. I told you so, and
I warned you about this, but um everything that I
thought would happen happened. It happened in one episode. I
didn't expect it this quickly. But my god, it was

(01:06):
like getting in the ring with Mike Tyson and you
just keep getting slugged and slugged and slugged, and there
it is. I mean, it all just came apart, and uh,
it was just a beautiful thing to watch, wasn't it. It
It was just it was just lovely. Um I I
I didn't want to be right. It pains me to

(01:30):
see this very And here's the thing about Rory. She
is such a strong, young woman. That's the thing for
me that came through in this episode is her strength,
her strength that she has had to deal with all
of this, and especially it's sort of like, you know,
you put a cap on it at the end when
she comes in and and and cuddles her own mother.

(01:50):
I mean, who is the child? Who is the daughter
who's raising who? Here? Um? But I get I really
like the way this episod so uh really portrayed a
single mother who needs to have a life outside of
this because of course it's all been set up that hey,

(02:11):
she's you know, Rory's going off to Harvard or Gale
wherever she's going to go off to and what about
your life? And it was really good dramay, it was
really more drama than comedy. But it was, my god,
that was powerful, powerful episode. I knew this was gonna happen.
I was it just it just seemed like perfect set

(02:35):
up for something like this to happen. And it all
blew up. Boy did it blow up? And the moment
the Paris came by and and saw those two you know,
neck in in the classroom. Boyn um. Anyway, Um, we
have a very very special guest and she's waiting in

(02:58):
the waiting room, and let me read a little bit
about Marrow Wilson. Okay, and you know her and your
love her. Marra Wilson is known for her childhood roles
in Mrs doubt Fire and Matilda. Mara's first book, Where
Am I Now? True Stories of Girlholding Accidental Fame, is
available from Penguin Random House. Marra Wilson will be joining us.

(03:21):
Can't wait to talk to her. She is a Gilmore
Girls super fan and we will be back after these messages. Yeah, okay, everybody,
We're back. Scott Patterson. I am all in podcast. I
heart radio. We are going to bring in Marrow Wilson here,
who is a Gilmore Girls super fan and um a

(03:44):
very successful actress in her ow right. And there she is. Hello, Maura,
nice to meet you. Hi, Nice to meet you two.
I am so excited about that. I am very excited
about this too. After reading your resume and being aware
of your my publicist emailed me and she knows me
very well, and she was immediately like, I assume that
you're gonna want to do this, and I wrote back
like yes in all caps. Immediately she knows, she knows

(04:07):
I'm a fan, We're glad to have you, and uh,
you're a Gilmore Girls super fan. What was it that
initially captured you. You're a writer of some note now,
so I imagine the writing grabbed you immediately. Definitely. You know.
I I'm usually either I'm usually very behind the curb
on things, and I was kind of on Gilmore Girls too.

(04:30):
I I didn't start watching it until like the fourth
or fifth season, and my brother John was a huge
student of it. Though he loved it. And John liked
a lot of of the like c w w B,
you know, ABC Family, free Form, Fox Family kind of shows.
He liked a lot of them, but Gilmore Girls was
was always like it always had a special place in
his heart. And I think at that time, I think

(04:52):
that I was like when at first from here, I
think I was like, uh, you know, I was kind
of like too much of a tomboy, and I was like,
this is and going to be something I want to watch.
It's gonna be too girly. Later on I would realize
that I actually love girly stuff. But um, I started
watching it with him when he would like he was
he was in college at the time and he would
come home, and I would watch it with him, and

(05:14):
just the witty banter and just the way that everybody
talked and how fast it was, And it felt kind
of similar to my family because there was a lot
of in my family. There was a lot of talking
over each other and dropping all these references and dropping
all these quotes, and so that felt very familiar and
it felt very fun. So yeah, I think it really
was the dialogue, I think, and and writing dialogue is

(05:34):
one of my favorite things ever, probably because I grew
up on film sets and I spent a lot of
time listening to adults talk, so good dialogue really gets
to me. It. Uh, I absolutely love it. So that
that is something that I think is very important to
me and something that I I gravitated to right away.
So many great characters, so difficult for a writer to

(05:56):
create so many distinct, unique voices in one care amazing. Yeah,
there's so many. There's it's it's so interesting because the
rhythm is all very similar, I think, but everybody has
such a distinct voice, and there really isn't like a
weak link in in any of in any of the characters.
Like you, you love all the characters, even even the
ones that you hate, you kind of love because they're

(06:17):
just so fully formed and they're so they're so fascinating
and they're so interesting in their own way. So I immediately,
you know, when I started watching it, I was like, oh,
this is really good, and I don't know what I
was expecting. But I also love drama tase. I think
that I think that kind of and I write like
the stuff I right tends to be kind of drama esque.
I think that there really isn't such a thing in

(06:40):
life as like a truly comedic or truly dramatic moment.
There's like a seed of of you know, you find
the comedy in the sad, and there's always a bit
of tragic in the comedics. So I think drama tas
are are are like the sweet spot. They're very true
to life. Let's break down the episode a little bit.
So you watched you watch the episode, yes I did.
I did, And you know that the previous two episodes

(07:02):
I think are are like some of the best episodes
I think. So, so I watched those. I went back
and because I went to watch it, and I was like, Okay,
but I need to go back and watch these two first,
because I love these and uh. And my sister was like,
can we just watch Guilmard Girls from the beginning again?
And we might end up doing that. We might end
up doing that. Uh. And she was hesitant to get
into it too, but as soon as she got into it,

(07:23):
she was like, Oh, this is the best show. I
love it. And so it's something that means a lot
to both of us. Uh and uh. And but but
I think that that this character, this show, it's interesting,
this this one episode has it focuses on one of
my favorite Gilmo Girls characters and one of my least
favorite Guilmo Girls characters. I don't like Max Medina. And yes, yes, okay,

(07:50):
because because he suffers from a terminal case of not
being Luke. Um, I am Luke and Laurela all the way. Uh,
you know. And and but also for a long time,
because I've seen Scott Cohen on other shows and I've
loved him on them. I loved him on The Americans,
and and so I was like, well, I know it's
not the actor. He's a great actor and the writing

(08:11):
is good, so what is it? And then I thought, oh,
my gosh, he reminds me of my ninth grade English
teacher who was always kind of he tried. He this
was a guy who loved to talk about like how
nice and kind and emotional and enlightened he was, but
he was actually just kind of a big jerk and
he was and he really didn't like me. And I

(08:32):
really loved his class, but he really didn't like me.
And I'm like, oh, he gives me big Mr you know,
Mr h feelings. He he reminds me of him, and
I think that's what it is. I was. I mean,
I was like going through a tough time, which honestly,
like everybody is when they're fourteen, but you know, like
like things, there were a lot of big changes in
my life, and I was kind of struggling with my

(08:53):
identity and I I was I was a bit like
Laurel I. I was loud and I was obnoxious, and
I was always talking over everybody, and I would blurt
things out in class and I would embarrass myself and
I would embarrass my friends. And I think that I
was just too intense for him, and he didn't he
he didn't like that, and so he remember he kicked
me out of his class once because I've been talking

(09:14):
out of turn. Like too much. And he told me,
he said, has anybody ever told you that you rubbed
them the wrong way? And I was like, what a
thing to say, And especially when it's especially when it's
coming from somebody who who's like all about psychology and
all about Freud and will be like, tell me about
your parents, tell me about your life, and like being
insulted by like a sensitive, a sensibly gentle person is

(09:36):
like the worst thing that can happen. And I had
a bit of Luke and me too, I was also
kind of I was also kind of grumpy, so uh
so I think that kind of that kind of put
him off, and you know that puts some people off. Um,
so Max reminds me of him. But also he's just
not Luke. So so it's just like, you know, you
watch these episodes and and and Luke is like a
part of them, and and then oh and and then

(09:58):
you know, and then here's here's not again, So that
I think was part of it. And but Paris, Paris
is one of my favorite characters. She is so entertaining.
So I loved I loved the Paris moments in this one,
plenty of them. Uh yes, yes, what a what a
mean girl. But you know, and I know how they

(10:19):
try to justify it through the divorce, The horrible divorce
has a family in Paris and a second family in Paris. Yes, yes,
you know, I think some very famous people had second
families in Paris. Buck Fuller, I think had a family
and another family. There's you know, a lot of writers
had second families. I mean, it seems to be a
theme amongst the tortured creative souls. Yeah, they all had

(10:40):
like their their wives and their mistresses and yeah, and
a lot of them were in Paris, and I think
that that was kind of more that was that was
seen as like even more acceptable. Like here, you know,
they would they would shame you for that, I feel like,
but but in in France, you know, that was you know,
that was seen as as acceptable. And and excuse me
to hear that, like like, um, amongst the royal family

(11:03):
and aristocratic people, it's considered kind of cool if you're
if you're like partners having an affair with somebody who's
like more aristocratic or more royal. Like some people said,
like about Camilla Parker Bowls, like her husband was like
was like, well, she's sleeping with the prince and that's
cool because he's so high status. So but things are
very different in the US. But I love Paris, and

(11:26):
I just love seeing and I mean, this is one
of the few times that you see her mom and
and you kind of get a feeling that Paris was
actually raised by her nanny, you know, And and she
is very lonely. And and I think people who are
kind of born into chaos, they tend to maybe not
thriving chaos, but they're used to chaos, and they kind
of create chaos around them because that's what they're used

(11:47):
to and what that's what they that that allows them
to kind of have the upper hand. So really, one
of my favorite lines on the show ever, I think
is in a later season, uh, when Rory and Paris
are getting along and Emily says, now there's Paris. Are
you two friends? Never can tell? So I saw a
little bit of Emily in Paris's mother. Oh yeah, for sure,

(12:08):
for sure. And there's a lot of there's a lot
of of there's a lot of oh my gosh, i's
gonna quote the show. There's a lot of Emily in Paris. Uh,
there is, though, there's they definitely and they understand each other.
I think when they get together they kind of understand
each other. And Emily sometimes finds her I think a
little annoying. But I think it's that thing where you
can see another people what you don't like in yourself.

(12:30):
You know, It's like looking in a mirror, and I
think that that's kind of what it is. You know
what I found really interesting about Emily scene with Laurela
when they come over for dinner and she wants to
confront about the kissing Maximndina, she was incredibly restrained. She
ramps it up, you know, something big is happening, but
she doesn't abuse the scene. As an actor, she doesn't

(12:54):
abuse that scene. She she really plays the exasperation beautifully,
like I just don't understand you. Are you insane? Please
explain this to me, and gives her a chance to explain,
and she listens. She does listen. I think you're right.
Kelly Bishop is great with that. She's very great with
with restrained, restrained emotions and restrained scenes. And that's something
I think I feel like you cadn't see in a

(13:15):
lot of her performances. You know, you can see that
in Dirty Dancing, to where she she always has a
look on her face like she wants to say something,
but she won't. You know, she wants to do something,
but she won't. And you can hear that on you know,
the chorus line cast album, just talking about her family
and things. So she think, I think, is she as
an actress is kind of a master of restraint and
she wants to do these things, but she she doesn't.

(13:36):
But I think the difference between the difference between her
and Laura Lae is Emily sees all these restrictions in
place as an important thing and they are the way
that things are and you have to live by them.
And Laura just hasn't. She hasn't ever seen that. She's
she's never understood why do we need to do this?
She's never understood the why of it? And Emily, Emily

(13:57):
is like, there there, there isn't a why, you just
do There's so much and and and I don't know,
it's it's uh, it's it's such a great restrained scene,
I think, And I don't know. You see, you see
one thing that's really nice about this episode as you
see these two you see Paris kind of having to
admit that she did something wrong. And you also see

(14:21):
you see Rory and and Laura Lee relating what you
see Rory having to take care of Laura Lie. I
think at the end of this episode, which is really interesting,
and I think that this early in the show, that's
kind of the first time you see this. It's the
first time you see Paris sort of admit to to
a fault, to a flaw and be vulnerable. And it's
one of the first times you see that. And and

(14:42):
you know that that Rory sometimes take takes care of
Laura La, but it's one of the first times you
actually see it. What really shined through for me was
was Rory's strength, her her role, being able to stand
up to Paris in such a cool man, and being
able to stand up to her own mother, bargaining at
the table with her says well, I'm not returning the

(15:03):
book and screw you, and I'm going into my room.
You're doing yourself. Yeah, she's a tough kid. She is
a tough kid, and and it you know, I think
that as she gets a little bit older, she kind
of she loses her way a little bit. She gets
she gets more anxious about herself and she second guesses,
but at this age, she she has that and I
don't know, and I feel like I had a little

(15:24):
bit of that. I think a lot of people do.
And I've actually seen interviews with like Lisa Whiles she said, Yeah,
when I was young, I was very outgoing and believed
in myself, and then as I got older, I got shire.
And I feel like Rory kind of does that as
a character too. But she is she's so strong and
it's not just taking care of her mother, but it's
it's also just it's also, yeah, her standing up for herself.
She's a very strong sense of self at this age,

(15:46):
which which is really remarkable. And and Laura I did
do Laura La, Laura La knew who she was. She
you know, she she you know, she she probably did
some things that you know, changed her life, and she she,
you know, she did some things. I'm not going to
say it made a mistake because Worry is like a
wonderful child and she's and she always says like, look,
I didn't really make a mistake. This is something that

(16:07):
you know, maybe I shouldn't have done, but I'm not
sorry that it happened. But I think that she uh
that she I don't know, it's it's uh, it's she.
She also has a very strong sense of sense of self.
Uh and and and so this, this whole this whole episode,
I think and like, yea, so maybe I do like
this episode more than I thought, because it is it

(16:27):
is all about, uh, sort of having to come to
terms with who you are and your identity, especially with
with the idea of lore La letting Max into her
life and how resistant she is to that, you know,
seeing how Rory turned out in the Revival, but she
was doubting herself, second guessing herself, not really her life

(16:49):
not working out. Do you think those seeds were planted
in this series right away? I don't know about right away,
but I mean in some ways, I also think that's
a generational thing because I do know that a lot
of you know, because an extraordinary precocious beginning she had,
and now she's in this fancy private school, she's going
to Harbor you and what happened? I mean I think

(17:11):
a lot of yeah, a lot of kids. You know,
a lot of kids like when they're told that they're
gifted when they're young, or when they're told that they're
talented when they're young, and I've experienced a bit of
this myself, because you know, I was sort of h
I started acting as a child, and I was kind
of it's a smaller pond back then. And as I
got older, you know, there were fewer and fewer roles,
and part of it was just well there was more competition,

(17:33):
but and also and also it's harder to be an actor.
I think for me, it was almost easier to be
an actor when I was younger, because children are afraid
to be vulnerable, whereas adults learned to be afraid to
be vulnerable. And I think that that is something that
that you know. But but I do also think that
it's a sort of generational thing. I'm not sure what
it was exactly, but I do feel like most people

(17:54):
I know, like in their mid thirties, are very unsure
of themselves. And I don't know if it's the world
that we grew up in or if it's the way
you know, but but I do feel like, like Rory
is um, there's a story is kind of what we're like.
Sixteen year old girl who obviously is academically gifted, she
is psychologically prepared to deal with somebody in such a

(18:14):
cool manner as Paris. Who would have the wherewithal and
the psychological power and the skills to deal with the
Paris at sixteen years old. You have to be a
very smart, very cool character with a ton of experience
dealing with this kind of thing. And what she got
from dealing with It's like, how did she go wrong?
How did it go bad? How did she not? I'm

(18:37):
not saying it went bad, I'm just how did she
get lost? You know? It's interesting. I feel like, like
maybe because because Rory is very interprustionally smart, and I
think that she's smarter with other people than she is
with herself. And it makes me wonder like if she
had if she had like become somebody who helps other people,
if she had focused on that, you know, she had
studied psychology or something instead of instead of journalism and

(18:58):
kind of like wanting to be a star. I feel like,
you know, maybe that would have changed her. That would
have you know, that would have been it. I also
think that there was there were some men in her
life who kind of steered her wrong, which which you know,
and I have my opinions on this too, and I
will admit I used to hate Jess. I used to
really hate him. I was like, you're so mean to Luke,

(19:19):
You're so men to Laura, like you jerk Rory around.
And I liked Dean at the beginning, you know, Uh yeah,
I liked Dean and exactly. I think one of the
first episodes I watched in full actually was the pop
It episode, and I remember being like being like, why
is Luke so mean to him? And my brother was like,
you have to go back and watch and find out

(19:40):
the sort of ups and downs that that happened there.
And then I was like, oh, okay, that's that is
reasonable for him to hate him, and Lucas protective. But
but yeah, but but I felt like Jess kind of
came off the best in the in in in the Revival,
I thought that he came off the best because he
has found him helf and he's not as angry anymore.

(20:01):
And Dean is Deana is very sweet, but Diana's very
much I think a lot of us have like that
first boyfriend or that first girlfriend that you know, meant
a lot to us and really showed us a lot
of things and we learned a lot from them, and
and but we're glad we're not with them now, I
know that I do where I'm like where I'm like
that was. That was a lot of fun, and that
was a great time and we both learned a lot
about ourselves. But we wouldn't have been happy if we

(20:23):
got married, you know, we wouldn't been happy if we
if we decided to stay partners. And I think that
that's kind of what Dean is, and it's nice to
see that he and Rory are still friendly. Um Logan
is uh, Logan is the type of guy I think
where um and these people are dangerous. When you're around them,
you feel really good and they're very charismatic, and you

(20:44):
get kind of sucked in, and then when you're not
around them, you're like, that person is kind of weird.
I don't know if I should really be friends with them.
That's the feeling that I get from Logan. Very very charming,
but also when you're not around them, you're like, huh,
I have kind of a weird feeling in my stuff,
like like should I trust this person I didn't trust
in the minute he called her Ace. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

(21:13):
I felt. I mean, I've felt, you know, and I've
I've definitely had you know, friendships and relationships with people
where they're very charming and they come up with little
nicknames for you and they say funny things to you
and it's so much fun. And then when you're and
then when you're not with them, you are constantly defending
them to other people. It's a control thing. It is,

(21:34):
it really is, and it's it's kind of scary actually,
So it's a little strange. So yeah, I didn't like
when he appeared in the revival. I was like, shut
a flogan, go away, yeah, posing, posing, Yeah, I was like, wow, yeah, great, great,
Look we're talking about the characters here. We're not talking

(21:55):
about the people. We love the people. Well, the act
of the place isn't Matt, Matt Supreme, Matt zu Cree.
I saw him on the street like ten years ago,
walking down the street, and and um, I also saw
Danny Strong walking down the street I think, like in
that same neighborhood. And afterwards I was like, I was like,
is this like a Gilmore girl's neighborhood? But I saw
him walking down the street and he looked looked like

(22:16):
very handsome and nice, and I remember thinking like, oh man,
I feel so bad that I hate this guy's character.
He seems like a nice guy. Yeah he's got he's
gotta walk that Razor's edgy, you know. And I've loved
I've also loved my Loventimilian everything that I've seen him in.
And but but Jess, Jess, I struggled with. But don't
ever say that to a Jess fan, because Jess fans

(22:37):
are hardcore. Cut your head off. I think I also
was probably too old for Jess, Like I think if
I had seen him in UM, if I had started
watching the show when it first came out, you know,
when I was thirteen fourteen, I think that I probably
would have loved Jess. But by eighteen I had By
seventeen eighteen, when I started watching it, UM, I had

(22:58):
been in an arts high school, and I knew a
lot of guys like Jess, and I had dated them,
and I was done with them. You know. I was
just like, you like poetry, maybe you have a guitar,
like I don't care. I was just like I was
so over it, so over it, but yeah I was.
I was just like, you know, it wasn't that's great,

(23:24):
that's great. So I was like, I was like, you
had all that and you played baseball too, man, Like
I played through my sophomore year and I was so
annoyed by the coach. Um, yeah, I wasn't like a
jockey jock guy. Yeah, I enjoyed. I loved playing. I
was very good at it. But it just I just

(23:44):
didn't want to be that person that the coach wanted
me to be. That makes sense, That makes sense. Baseball
players and baseball coaches can be so hard. So yes,
you know, and you're in a discipline where you know
your body is your instrument. It's it's tough, like acting.

(24:07):
As we break down this episode, as we talked about
this episode a little bit, where do you think it's going?
Where do you think? Uh? I mean, I can't even
Here's what I like. Here's here's what I started liking Max.
I like the way Max suffered. I like the way
Max faced his consequences. I like the way Max said,

(24:29):
we need to take some time apart. This was devastating
for him. He almost lost the woman of his dreams,
and he almost lost his livelihood and he still might
lose his livelihood. Um, and as I stated earlier in
the podcast, this is this relationship between these two is
going to cost, could potentially cost him everything, and the
school could be liable, and it's just a giant mess

(24:52):
and what is going on and why is she doing this?
Can you justify this on any level? Can you explain
this to my dumbhead why anybody would do something like
this and put their child at this much risk in
the middle of this much of a maelstrom. Um, I mean,
I feel like and it's weird because honestly, I feel

(25:13):
like if it were if it were like a public school,
that happens, you know, that happens like, um, you know
where we're teachers, teachers and you know, parents and teachers,
they date like that. I've seen, you know, I've seen
that happen. People married, h you know, somebody married the
coach or the this or that that. But at someplace

(25:34):
like Chilton, I feel like there's this sort of and
I don't know if it's a class based thing or what,
because while I was watching this at first, I was
kind of like, I was like, what's the big deal, Like, Okay, yeah,
I shouldn't have been making out at school, you know,
it could influence are grades and also but also it's
a it's a class thing. I think there's there's definitely
like you guys kind of can't mix and and for them,
it's probably a bit like a doctor dating a patient,

(25:55):
which you know, which really is like unethical. I mean,
it's not like a teacher dating a student, which is
you know, unethical and illegal. But but although that happens
to um, but um they were, I think, like, I
don't know, but I also think sometimes people people are
very good for each other, but it's just not the
right time, it's just not the right place. They're kind

(26:17):
of star crossed. But the thing is that I I
personally believe and I don't know if this is just
because I'm a Luke and Laura La kind of person,
and and uh, I think that like there was something
that just wasn't right with it. And I feel like
you can see it with Laura La. She keeps talking
about what a good guy he is. She keeps talking
about you know, she's like, he's a good guy. But

(26:38):
and I think that maybe she's even using Rory as
an excuse. I think this is happening to me too,
where you meet somebody and they're really wonderful and they're
everything you want on paper, but there's just not the
comfort and the connection that you can see with her
and Luke in the previous episode where they understand each other.
And and that's the thing too, Like how comfortable Rory
is with Luke is one thing as opposed to um too,

(27:02):
Rory being announcing you know, I'm comfortable with Max. I'm
totally comfortable with Max. You know. It's it's if you
really are. Do you feel that kind of comfort? I
think you don't really need to say it, and I
feel like that. So I feel like that is it
is is different. You know, that is something different. Um.
But then I'm also a big fan of stories where

(27:22):
people are like best friends and they go on to
UH to get married. And I've also seen that happen
in real life. It happened to a family member of
mine and UH, and it's very cute when that happens.
So so I like that narrative. I think a little
bit more than like this person is perfect on paper,
but you know, or or or we can't be together
because of you know, class reasons or job reasons or

(27:43):
something like that. I you know, I like the I
like the best friends slowly realizing their in love, you know,
because there that that comes with the foundation of trust
I think, as opposed to just kind of liking what
the other person stands for. Let me, and that's just
popped in them. Do you think that there's a part
of Lauraae, there's something inside her that longs to go

(28:04):
back to Hartford, longs to go back to the country club,
longs to go back and be accepted by her family
and live that life. Do you think that she has
any even a tinge of regret at what she did
at sixteen? What happened her at sixteen, that's a really
good and maybe that's why she's sabotaging the Max thing,

(28:26):
knowing full well it's not going to work out, because
of course it's not going to work out, And maybe
that's why there is this sort of undercurrent of I
don't know, sort of a sec there's a sort of
a hostile superiority, and you know, I don't I don't
want I don't want to mislead our listeners. I'm not
saying that she's hostile towards Luke, but she does have
this kind of way of I don't know, joking with

(28:48):
him that's a little too familiar sometimes, and that she
she hates herself for loving Luke and doesn't want to
admit it because he's too low down on the on
the class side for her. Well, that's something you see
because because Emily, I feel like, you know, and you
were talking about this in the last podcast episode, Emily,
I feel like she does like Luke, but I think
she feels like she can't like Luke and that becomes

(29:10):
a source of conflict later on. She can't like him. Um,
But I think that I don't know, I don't think
that she wants to go back to it necessarily, but
I do think that she realizes in some ways that
she is dependent upon it in some ways, you know,
And and that's really the struggle for her is sort
of and that you know, and that can be kind
of that is something for a lot of people who

(29:30):
come from a privileged background. But don't you know, people
who like like people who who are very against how
you know, their families made their money, maybe their families
made their money doing something unethical, but they're you know,
the kind of kind of like meato soprano kind of
thing where it's like, I don't like where this money
is coming from, but I need it so I can
go on to to uh, you know, to to to

(29:53):
become a lawyer or become a doctor, become whatever it
is I want to do. She she does sometimes she
needs that money, and especially for Rory, I think, and
I think, I don't know. I think in some ways
she does want Rory to live that life, you know,
she she struggles. She doesn't want her to be a debutante,
she doesn't want her to be doing all those things.
But I do think that she wants Rory to still
have those advantages. She wants her to go to Harvard.

(30:14):
Uh and and she knows that she's going to need
that connection. So I don't know if it's a want
so much as a need. I think subconsciously she knows
that she needs through her, she's going to should have
happened with her, Yeah, I think so. I I do
think that she does. And that's one of the struggles
I think in in the show too, is is you

(30:36):
know her her kind of and and I think that
she knows that in some ways that she's living vicariously
through Rory. And I think that's one of Louralie's biggest
internal struggles is trying not to do that so much,
which is you know, which is something I understood because
my mother had been an actor and then she you know,
later on I I when I started acting as a child,

(30:56):
my mom struggled every day to not be seen as
a stage mother because she was terrified and she was like,
I know, somebody's gonna be like, oh, you majored. You know,
you were in Northwestern theater major and your daughters and actress.
Are you living vicariously through her? You know? So, so
that's something that I recognize. I think, Um, and uh,
I don't know, you know, it's it's um, I don't know,

(31:16):
it's it's it's so I do think that she probably
needs it. She knows that she needs it. Rory very
strong kid, very strong. Yeah. Um, And isn't it It's
interesting how all of these people's home lives are playing
out in dialogue and that the writing is paying attention
to this and how much it influences all these interactions

(31:39):
at children with these kids, because it's really just all
about what's going on at home that I've always said,
because I really like it's so funny because if you read,
like the first play that I wrote when I was
in college and like in graduating college, it was called people,
and you can see I think more girls and women's

(31:59):
there because the way that references are dropped and the
way people are talking over each other, and the way
that people are are doing these things. My my, I
remember my playwriting teachers even saying and like my progress report.
She's like, I know, we tease you a lot about
all your references, but and uh and it was true.
It was just but that was that was really so.
So it was a really big influence. But I've learned,

(32:21):
I think because I like, I saw a lot of
plays when I was living in New York, and I
would see some where they would be really clever dialogue,
but it wasn't good dialogue. It didn't reveal anything about
about these people. Like, um, I feel this way a
little bit about like Cole Porter songs, like all cool
Porter songs are incredibly clever and funny, but very rarely

(32:41):
do they reveal anything about a character the way that
like a Sandheim song does, or even a Rogers and
Hammerstand song or Rodgers and Heart song does. I'm a
big musical theater, so um so that's the kind of
thing or or like or like a lot of jazz songs,
do you know um so, so I think that that's
and and and it's okay if you're writing is just clever,

(33:04):
you know. But but Gilmer Girls, I think is is
a level of writing where everything, everything reveals a character
and everything, you know. Another one of my favorite lines
is when is when uh, Laura lies like you you
shouldn't assume, because when you assume, and she's gonna say,
you make an ass out of you and me, But
then she realizes she can't tell that joke to Emily.

(33:24):
So she's just like, because you just shouldn't and she
holds back. And and that's the thing too, is that
is that so much of dialogue and I think you
see this with Luke, and you see this see this
later on with Jess. There's also what you're not saying,
So so that's that's another thing. There's there's it's something
that you're not saying that you're not saying, And I
mean the Woody banter. I love it. It's like popcorn

(33:46):
to me, but but you know, you have to be
you you. I don't know, there's there's so much sense
revealed in it, and that that's really what I love
about this show. What is your I'm gonna ask you
if that's okay, here we go. Who's your favorite character

(34:08):
who you relate to the most? Oh? Okay, um, let's see.
I I I don't know really who my favorite character is.
I I think I love Lane. Lane is great. Um,
I love Luke, but there's uh, I don't know. I
really love Paris. I think Paris is like one of

(34:28):
my favorite characters. But I feel like a lot of
my favorite characters and things are really like the most
earnest ones, you know. I think the most earnest ones
are always are always the funniest and and sometimes it's
characters who are very earnest and sweet and open, you know.
But sometimes it's earnest characters who are a bit too
too harsh uh and and uh. And I think Paris

(34:50):
is kind of one of those. Paris can't be anything
other than who she is, and that's really why I
love her. I I kind of have like a love
hate relationship with Emily because I I I hate the
way she upholds these like archaic things, you know, But
but I also I also love who she is as
a person, and I love the way that she loves Rory,
so you know, so that's really a thing. Uh Suki too.

(35:13):
Suki is another earnest character that I really love. I
I love, I do love the earnest characters. And and
Melissa McCarthy is also a genius. So I loved seeing
her in this and then you know, ten years later
seeing her in Bridesmaids and can you ever Forgive Me?
And all of these things, and I'm just like, I'm

(35:33):
just like, gosh, she can do anything anything. Isn't it
amazing that Hollywood took this long to discover her when
she was doing that work one years ago? She was
doing that level of work years ago, and nobody cast
her in a film. Yeah, and you can, yeah, and
she does and she can. Yeah, she can do everything.

(35:55):
So I I I absolutely adore her. Um, I love
I love Lauren Grandma's as Laura la I think and
and and I also love Edward A. Grahaman is as
like when he when he died, I I think I
actually said out loud, oh no, grandpa died like he
he felt kind of like everybody's grandpa. So so I

(36:16):
can't really choose. I can't really choose, Like, who do
I relate to? Um? I don't think I relate to
Rory that much because I felt growing up like I
was kind of a screw up, like I was more
I think that I and that's probably not true, but
I was always told you have so much potential, why
are you wasting it? And I think that's because I was.
I was a very scattered brandchild. I I like, you know,

(36:39):
I I in college they told me, you know, you
have a d h D. That's why you relate to things,
That's why you lose things, you know, So maybe that
was what was what it was. And I was very
I was very anxious. I was. I was always nervous.
I was always anxious about it. So I think there's
a little bit of Laura Lae. I think that I
also can do sort of the gruff but loving thing. Um.
I definitely have a besides. So I think that there's

(37:01):
especially as I good older, I relate to Luke more
and more. And I'm also very pragmatic and I think
Luke is too, you know, whereas Laurelai, I think is
like more whimsical. So UM, I don't know, maybe maybe
I'm like the child they would have had. Uh yeah,
I but but because because I think I have kind

(37:22):
of both the the you know, the passionate aspect of
me and the loud, talkative thing. Um, I'm not a
coffee drink grama to drinker. But but yeah, but I
but I do also have a little bit of of
Luke's practicality and roughness and uh, we're not gruffness, but
but grumpiness and uh and complains like I have. I
have both sides in me. I think a wide array

(37:44):
of character personalities to choose from. We can pick a
little bus is out of out of all of them.
And yeah, it's an amazing array, it really is. Um.
Another fan question, You're ready? Um, okay, So we're going
to get into this. Well, I think you've already expressed
how I probably have. I tend to I tend to ramble.

(38:07):
How you've you've expressed how you feel about Max Medina.
I have been very clear about how I feel about
even though we love Scott Corner. What is your favorite
Kirk Mick odd job. Oh my gosh, Um, I love
when he plays Jesus and he's so rude to Judas
in the in the Festival of Living Art. That was

(38:28):
his favorite character played by the way he came on
the podcast, he said he favored Jesus over everybody. I
love I love Sean Gun. Yeah, I love Sean Gun
in this um. One of the first episodes I watched
is the one where he's the projectionist and he they're
trying to show cool hand Luke but they can't. Um.
There's I love him as the as the dj at.

(38:52):
It was this wedding, yeah, where where he's just playing
like Kajagugu and and like wangng and and just like
all the Terrible eighties one whit wonders. Yeah, I I
loved I love him as. I love that too. I
think that's yeah, that's that's those are probably my favorites. Um,

(39:13):
I see what haven't we covered in the episode? Who
is your favorite character? Do you think right now? Emily? Yeah? Yeah,
Emily and Rory Yeah, Emily and Rory. I think I
think I kind of I don't know. I I think
that as I as I get older, I sort of
relate to Emily a little bit more. I mean I

(39:34):
think that she kind of when you grew up in
that kind of culture, I think you also there's a
limit to how much free will you have? Uh And
and I also think that I also think that Laura
I probably takes after her father a little bit more
because her father is somebody who takes risks and does
big things, whereas Emily isn't. Emily's like, Nope, there's a
code and I have to live by it. Um so

(39:56):
so that I think is something. You know, maybe that's
where Laurea lies, you know, impulsiveness and creativity comes from that,
even though you know, even though corporate she's a corporate wife.
I mean he's uh, what is He's a VP of
a huge insurance company. I mean this guy is uh,
you know, yeah, he does he does so much. But yeah,

(40:19):
I think I also love and maybe it's because I
love Kelly Bishop, but I do feel like, like when
I was younger, I think I was like I was
like Emily so mean, but now I'm like, no, I
understand her more. I think, yeah, I have a question
for both of you. Yeah, okay, So it's a two parter.
Was Laura lia doing the right thing for herself for

(40:41):
Rory for whoever? When she was sort of pulling back
from Max and not returning his calls, and then they
have the incident in the school room where she's sort
of trying to break up with him by giving him
back the book. That's part one. Was she doing the
right thing? Part two? Did Max do the right thing
in the coffee shop at the end of the episode
by telling her or they need to take a break,

(41:01):
Because that was heart breaking for me. After she's now
endured all this embarrassment and he breaks up with her,
It's like, oh my god. So I'd love to hear
both of you talk about both those sort of those
those moments. I think she might have been doing the
right thing, but she didn't go about it the right way.
You know, you have to be honest with somebody, and

(41:23):
and and she just kind of wasn't. I think she
wasn't as upfront about it as she could have been.
You know, she she wasn't as as honest as she
could have been. And I understand that why she wasn't,
because that's a hard thing to do. That's a hard
thing to tackle. I I do think, Matt, I do
think Max did the right thing. But I don't know.
And I guess it's because maybe because I know where
it's going. But but I do think that I don't know,

(41:49):
Like in my experience, anytime somebody says and then my
friend's experience. Anytime somebody says we need to take a break, Uh,
that means they are breaking up for good. But but
I think that uh, I don't know. I wonder if
she thinks maybe they will get back together or they
won't like and maybe he does need Sometimes sometimes people
do need time. But when they say, I don't know.

(42:10):
For some there's something about, you know, when they say
a break, that that it's not it's not working. So
I don't know. But but also but also in some ways,
I'm like, who cares, you know, just see where it goes.
She chose him because she knew it wouldn't work out.
She did it subconsciously. She knew that it was going
to cause problems. She knew she would always have an out,

(42:31):
She would have several people chewing her face off. Her mother,
uh first and foremost her daughter. I mean she she
did it to sabotage she she did it to get
out of it. And um, yes, I think Max did
the right thing. I really do. I think Max looks

(42:52):
relationships in the beginning, the first flush, which is what
they were, still in the midst of a very delicate things,
and they can I mean, you popped the balloon like that.
That's tough to go back from that. I mean, he
was deflated, no pun intended, like a pop and you know,
he had put so much effort into it. So I

(43:13):
really gained a tremendous amount of respect for him as
a man who had made a horrible decision. But now
I see how overwhelmed he was with his adoration of Laurela.
And he wanted it all. He wanted a family, wanted kids.
I mean, that was it. That's what he had the
blinders on. And she burst the bubble and he's gone.

(43:34):
He was like, gosh, you know, it was supposed to
be perfect. This wasn't supposed to happen. And so now
he's questioning his own judgment. So it's it's it's just
a double negative for him, and of course he has
to retreat and sort of sort of feelings out. Now
I have two follow ups. Now I have two follow
ups because you guys are making me think. So my

(43:55):
first question is and and I'd love for both of
you to analyze it, because you both sort of have
suggested you don't like Max, where I love I like him. Now, yeah,
I think I do like him. I do I do
like him more but but in some ways it's just
that he isn't Luke. So in the scene where Laurel

(44:18):
and Max are on like the cute date, they're at
Max's house and they've obviously had like this cute dinner
that he cooked and they're like making out. Do you
feel the chemistry between them? Do you think they're a
good couple if you're just isolating that date? I feel
it from him. I think he Scott, we just I

(44:40):
think we just made the same face. We just made
the same were just made the same, like, you know,
kind of face. Earlier when he tried to put her
up against the wall and be passion I'm like, that's
not passion Yeah, I mean that's not at a level
of Luke and Laureli, because that's I don't know, Luke.

(45:02):
I don't know, maybe like Lucas, a passionate person who
has to try not to be passionate. I think who
who hides it behind this sort of gruffness? And I
think that that's true of a lot of people who
you know, especially people who have experienced a lot in
their lives or who had you know, Lucas the whole
thing with his dad and his sister, like he you
have to hide that sensitivity and that passion behind, but

(45:24):
behind sort of this layer of if not cynicism, but
like toughness. Whereas Max, I feel like, is is kind
of heart on a sleeve kind of guy, but he's
not super passionate. Max's Max as somebody. Yeah, Max isn't
a very passionate person, and Laurela is. Uh So then
I need to know what you guys saw this because
this because I'm like, I'm I love Max, So I

(45:46):
come from a place of like, he's doing this great.
Except I do think he had one major misstep, although
I felt his pain, which is why he did it.
What did you guys think when he talks to Rory
to find out is she coming to parents night? And
she hasn't called me that? I was like, that demonstrates

(46:10):
that for me, just demonstrated how enamored he is of her.
I mean, he cannot control himself. He puts her up
on a pedestal, I think, and that is dangerous. You can't.
You can't put someone up on a pedestal. They'll they'll
immediately fall or or or maybe they never will, but
but they will start to feel uncomfortable with it. And yeah,

(46:32):
and she did and she did, so I think that
that is something. Yeah, Max, Max gets kind of helpless
around her, and and I think that that's that's not good.
I think that a lot of people see that as
as love, but I don't think that it is. I
think it's sort of I think I think love needs
to be more mutual and on the same level. Right,
But I think he knows how to love. I think

(46:53):
he's a loving guy. I now get Yeah, I think
I think she needs to create conflict in every relationship
she has, or she gets board or that's just what
you may be right there. I felt more love when
you we're in the diner and said, drink your hot chocolate.
You lock up, we're going, let's go to the hospital.

(47:14):
To me, that was that was love. Yeah, it's I
think Max knows how to love to I just think
that ultimately it is a like on paper situation. He
should be everything that she wants, you know, but but
but she isn't. And and yeah, Marline maybe a little
bit immature at this age and and still thinking like
that she wants something, you know big, and I mean

(47:36):
she went for Christopher, and Christopher is is you know
hectic and all over the place and and inconsistent. So
we know that she she likes a little bit of
that because that is exciting to her. I I think
that she also matures, She also grows up a little
bit and blamer I mean, you can, but but you
can't blame her for wanting to have you know, dipper

(47:56):
tone in the water. She hasn't been in a relationship
for a while. It's true, why why can't she have it?
But my god, I just think Max was just sort
of a a test balloon or training wheels for Luke
to be able to ride. Luke. I could see that.
I think that he was great on paper. I think
I think that I think that he was a I

(48:20):
don't know. I think that that he was that he
was a Yeah, I don't know. I think that he
was great on paper, but but ultimately not what she wanted.
And I think that with her and Luke, they are
on equal footing and they they you know, they kind
of respect each other. They do respect each other, and

(48:41):
they trust each other and on some level understand each other,
and they understand there's an acceptance of who the other
person is. There's an understanding and acceptance of who the
other person is. You don't have that really with with
Max and Laura because Max is putting Laura lay up
on a pedestal, and he's giving a lot, and he's
he's getting more than she's comfortable with, I think, and

(49:03):
she really likes him and really likes who he is,
but maybe doesn't particularly want it. So you don't have
the same the same thing that you have in the
live in Morelie relationship. I totally agree. Um, I just
think Max is uh, he's a mature, psychologically orientated her
human being. He's a challenge intellectually for her because he's

(49:27):
on the same level and he's probably more school better read. Obviously.
You know, she she went through her whole Michael Crichton thing.
It was a funny bit versus prost and and I
think she wasn't up to the challenge. So she sabotaged
and she chose him because she knew she wasn't going
to swim in those deep waters, because those are deep waters,

(49:50):
Max women, and he's a that's the real deal. That's
a that's a man in love laying his cards on
the table. And if it's mutual, it should be tough,
and it became not mutual, so anyway, very interesting. All right, Mara,
are you ready for rapid fire? Yes? Okay, where god

(50:11):
you rapid fire? And here we go. Ready? Countdown, ladies
and gentlemen, one, two, three to one. How do you
take your coffee? You don't drink not at all. I
drink tea. When I do drink coffee, it is dec espresso. Okay,
can you smell snow? Um? I guess smell a lot
of weird things, so yeah, I can't. Actually, Okay, you've

(50:34):
already answered this, but i'll ask it anyway. Are your
team Logan, Jesser Dean and Jess when he's a grown up,
Dean when she's young? Not Logan, I might I'll ask
this question. Who's the daddy? Oh? What does that mean? Exactly?
Just the knocked up Rory? Oh? Unfortunately, unfortunately I think

(50:59):
it's Logan. Unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah, I was. I was, Yeah,
I was, I was like, oh no, not Logan, Please
don't please, don't be Logan. But I think it probably is.
Unfortunately Netflix has him all over there, you know, like
with the Gilmore Yeah, Logan together, yeah, best memory of

(51:20):
Gilmore girls. Oh? Um, I don't know probably watching it
with my brother and uh and us talking about the
strummy La La music Sam Phillips. Uh, show you're binge
watching right now? Show I've been watched, show I've been Oh,
let's see, Um well, I just finished The Sopranos, Uh

(51:42):
and Hacks. I loved Hacks. That that is a great,
great show. I really loved that show too, so um
so yeah, those are mine. But we might start up
on Gilmore Girls again. I'm doing it. Yeah, first time.
I'm loving it. Okay, are you ready to do a
re enactment scene? Did you know that you were going
to be asked to do this? I did not know.

(52:04):
I did not know. You want to just wing it?
You just want to go for it? Yeah, sure, that's cold,
cold ride. Yes, right. So what are your plans tonight?
I'm going over to my friend Lane's house. Sounds good,
and you guys are dinner movie the usual? Right. This

(52:27):
is a little uncomfortable, Yes it is. But the thing is,
if things go well the way I hope things they're going,
we might do this again. Sit uncomfortably seeing seeing each
other outside of school. That's okay, I'm fine with this
whole you and my mom thing. I'm glad. Well, better go.

(52:52):
It's good to talk to you, Rory, you two. Mr Medina.
Oh why don't you call me Max just when we're
out of school? I don't think I can do that?
Why not? It just sounds wrong, disrespectful. I mean, you're
my teacher, Mr Medina, and if I start to think
of you as Max, even as a part time Max,

(53:13):
it just seems like it would get too confusing. How
about then we'd come up with the non children names
for each other when we're not in school. I'll call
you Rebecca Rebecca, and you'll call me well, I look
like a Norman to you. I'm sorry. Psycho was on
earlier and it was just the first name that came
into mind. I'll think of something else. How about Alfred?

(53:34):
You know what? Norman's fine? Are you sure i'll make
a legal change? Okay? Well, I better go? Okay, I
hope you and Lane have a good time. Thanks. I
would you give this to my mom for me? Absolutely? Thanks?
Oh a Norman have her home by ten? I thought

(53:56):
that was excellent. That's a cute line. That's a cute
line there by the end. I like that. I like that. Yeah, yeah,
and I think uh, I think we're I think thanks yeah, yeah,
But oh my gosh, this has been so fun. What
a great guest. You're fun to talk. Thank you, thank you,

(54:17):
and thank you for your time. I'm gonna I'm gonna
get your books and I'm going to read your books.
Thank you, Thank you so much. I'm very interested in
your perspective on things, and you were a very interesting guest.
So thank you for coming on. Thank you. I think
I even referenced Gilmore Girls a couple of times in
my book. Yeah, I think I did. I know I
did at least once. All right, thanks, it was the

(54:43):
light meeting you. I hope you come back on. I
would love to. Oh, please have me back on. I
would absolutely love that. I think we're already sort of,
you know, kind of texting back and forth. We're gonna
have her back on. Yeah, yeah, please do it, please
do and yeah. And in the meantime, I think my
sister and maybe my brother on the other side of

(55:03):
the country and I will will start watching again because
because we love it, we really do. I know, I'm
having a great time watching. I've never seen it. I
saw the pilot, and I saw Winter at the premiere
and I've never seen the episode. People never believe that
that actors do that. But I know when I was
a screen actor, like, it was so hard for me
to watch myself. I got so insecure. But and I

(55:25):
can do it when I'm doing like animation because because
I'm not looking at myself, but I'm not judging the
face that I've made. But but yeah, but it's hard
to watch yourself. But this is such a great show.
I don't mind it. Twenty one years later, I'm far
en off away from it now where I can actually
enjoy it. I feel that too. I definitely feel that too.

(55:46):
I feel that when I look back on can you
watch Mrs Doubtfire now? Because the whole time, all I've
been wanting to say is goddamn kids too. I can now,
But I used to be. I used to be. The
only time I ever I think, voluntarily watched Mrs Doubtfire
when I was a kid was it was on TV
and I had the flu, And that was the only

(56:06):
time that I wasn't like being like, oh my gosh,
I shouldn't have made that face. I shouldn't have done that.
I shouldn't have It was the only time I wasn't obsessing.
I was on and I watched it and I had
the flu and I was like, this movie is wanted
to watch. I wasn't that bad A hundred and three
degree fever. Yeah, so so I totally get it. So
lovely to meet you, Scott. Yes, and we'll hopefully yes, yes,

(56:30):
all right, yeah, thanks so much to all of you.
I had a good day. Yeah, all right. She was great.
She's so smart. I like her heart, I love her
and Mrs Doubtfire. I love Mrs Dolfire. She's so like
I just want to keep listening to her talk. You know.

(56:53):
It was smart. She's smarter than the three of us,
that's for sure. Not you, Scott, just the three of us.
So Danielle spotted the clown pillow. I did not see it,
but Danielle said she saw it. And I'll tell you
the exact time code it was at. You nailed it
down to the second, right, what's seen, what was happening.

(57:17):
It's when Max came over, uh for the date, and
he was talking to Roy the scene that we just
re enacted. He was literally the clown pillow was literally
right behind Max. Minta. You should get all of the
time codes for all of the clown Pillow appearances and
see if there's some kind of pattern. Oh, we could
start something right now. And well, we could start something

(57:39):
when you get the info. You know, I actually texted
Riley the last time code of the last episode to
give me one second. Let me snutes that would be
creepy clown Pillow. There's there's a weird, maybe magical configuration
about this. Maybe we could we could glean some secrets
from the the creators of the show. Maybe we have

(58:02):
to add up all the numbers and it comes to something. Well,
we're gonna go crazy trying to figure it out. It's
we're gonna yes, we're gonna just it's like a rube excuse.
We've gotta figure it out now. Mind's on fire. I
think there's no connection. It's just don't know until we
get the numbers. We gotta get the numbers, and I

(58:23):
gotta sit down late at nights and how many times
we have seven seasons to look for that clown. Okay,
so we don't have to do it today or next week,
but we gotta get all the time codes on when
the clown Pillows appear, because there's something to this I'm
telling you there's a secret that we could uncover that
could be the whole clue to this thing moving forward.

(58:45):
I will make sure to jot down every time code
of the clown fellow. Good more work. Was there anything
we missed in this episode? I feel like you and
Mark covered pretty much everything. There was one big one
to what Suki and Jackson. Yeah, the love connection. That

(59:06):
was a funny scene. Yeah, wasn't going to start. Wasn't
that a great reaction on him and then his slow
walk away? Have to re agrees to it? What that
was brilliant? Great? I love them together. I love them together.
And her what was she doing Ricky Martin? Oh yes,

(59:28):
that's what she's That was justice with her little movements
with her hands. Oh god, that's that. She is one
of the best physical comedians I've ever seen. I mean,
just unbelievable. What show can she can make you laugh
with a couple of different hand movements and a and
a voice inflection. It's it's it's amazing. Um. Yeah, I

(59:50):
think we pretty much covered the big moments. Yeah. I
do like that we're seeing sort of some change in
Paris and Rory's relationship. But that was so harsh when
Paris starts whispering it in the lunch room and you
hear it and you feel it just like going across
the tables and just like it was like a wave
coming at you, like a tidal wave coming at you. Um. Yeah,

(01:00:13):
I would say this is like the episode that you're
kind of like, oh, I get why Paris is super mean,
you know, like you get it. But but what's interesting
to me about Paris is she knew she was facing
a stronger person in Rory. Rory who was trying to
make friends with her and offer her friendship if you
ever want to talk, And yet Paris continued continued to

(01:00:34):
be mean and nasty, and I know it's going to
take a while for her to break that down if
she ever does. But it's like, it's it's kind of
beyond beyond. It's like, yeah, when, when when do you
stop blaming the mommy's divorce and then start realizing that
this is a truly disturbed individual. Totally wait. Fun fact

(01:00:56):
fact that Paris's mother is played by Anne Gilles, who
is also Kelly Taylor, Jenny Garth's mom on Beverly Hills
nine O two one. Oh yep, I got that fun
back for you, leaving us into culture. But I mean, truly,
you know, it's it's it's a real it's a real

(01:01:16):
balancing act for Paris, because you start to she starts
to soften, you start to understand, or you start to
your heart goes out to her a little bit, and
then yet she she comes back with the nastiness and
you're like, wow, Okay, maybe it's not the parents. Maybe
maybe she's just maybe they're divorcing because they want to
get away from her. I don't want to say the

(01:01:38):
word that sometimes comes to mind with Paris what starts
with a be Oh, She's just beautiful, beautiful child. There
you go, that's it, Riley. Riley knows right, what do
we got? Riley? All Right, I'm Riley and this is
your pop culture for the episode. So first we have Rory.

(01:01:59):
I'm Nancy Arrigan, Ora, I said, and I'm Tanya Harding.
I'm going to do the whole shoelace coming, untied, nervous breakdown,
let me start again, act in everything. Nancy Karragan is
a form of figure skater and actress who won a
bronze medal at the World Championship in the Olympics. Nancy
was attacked in nineteen by Shane stant who was allegedly
hired by her rival skater Tanya Harding's ex husband. She

(01:02:22):
has a movie about her called Tania, played by Margot Robbie.
Remember the famous or the infamous Nancy Karragan video post
knee bashing, Why Why? The whole thing was just a
hot mess, what a mess? And figure skating in figure skating,
it was a hot, hot mess, the whole thing, Louise

(01:02:47):
dumb girls, craves, smart men, it's the whole Marilyn Monroe
Arthur Miller syndrome. So we've actually talked about this on
the podcast. Before Marilyn Monroe married Arthur Miller on six
the two were known to having a or lived relationship
and people saw their marriage as a mismatch. Marylyn was
a sex symbol and Arthur was an aloof intellectual who
had thick glasses and unfortunately lost his hair. He finally

(01:03:10):
had to google him to see what he looked like,
because we've talked about him so much. She's not unattractive.
He was a large, balding, commanding genius um, a man
of letters, and they both had something that they wanted
from each other. He wanted her because it was I guess,

(01:03:34):
you know, she was actually a remarkably talented person. Um.
She was very good with comedy, She was very she
was a really accomplished actress. Uh. And I think he
recognized it. I mean, she left Hollywood to move to
New York to get involved with Lee Strassburg in the
actor's studio, and that's where they met. And something kind

(01:03:54):
of cute about him holding up a picture. He's kind
of cute, and they you know, I think she was
underestimated by the studios, and you know, she really wanted
to be taken seriously as an actress. And and and
I don't know what she nominated for anything, but did
she ever win any Oscars or not? What she ever nominated?
Did she did? She was in a movie called I

(01:04:15):
think Giant. Was that James Dean and maybe you know,
maybe it was Clark Gable and Marilyn Monroe. I forget
the name of the movie. But but I mean, really
a very very skilled, uh and very intuitive actress. She
really was. She could do anything. So I think, you know,
obviously he was the leading intellectual in theater circles in

(01:04:37):
New York at that time. Uh a much uh revered playwright.
I mean he was Arthur Miller, for God's sake, a novelist,
Wasn't you know? He was a novelist as well. Um,
death of a salesman, that's no, yeah, that's nothing to
scoff that it's nothing to you know, my god, Riley,

(01:05:04):
what what what came next? Rory says, well, it's not
the Rick James incident, but Hugh Grant should be feeling
pretty good about himself. Two good ones nailed it so.
Rick James is an American singer, songwriter, and record producer.
His real name is James Ambrose Johnson, Jr. He started
singing on the streets of Buffalo, New York at a
young age, and James was arrested on charges of holding

(01:05:26):
a twenty four year old female hostage for up to
six days. Yikes. But Hugh Grant Hugh Grant is award
winning English actor known for roles in films, television series
and more. He studied English at Oxford University before pursuing acting.
Hugh Grant was caught with a lady of the evening
named Divine Brown, and the incident got even more notoriety

(01:05:48):
when he went onto The Tonight Show with Jay Leno
and said, what the hell were you thinking? So that
that was a real coup for Jay Leno. Some the
most famous films include About a Boy Notting Hill, Love Actually,
and Four Weddings in a Funeral. And he was known
for his nonchalant touch of sarcasm. What was that show

(01:06:10):
I just watched where I was certain Hugh Grant didn't
do it? But he did it. It was it was
It was a guy Ritchie movie. No, this was the
HBO show that was just on the undoing, the undoing.
You've got to watch the undoing. He was a Chie movie,
a wildly different character than he said. Yeah, you didn't.
You barely even recognized him. I just ruined the ending

(01:06:33):
of the undoing, so well, now I don't need to
see it. So he saved me time. You're good, Laurel.
I says like a normal hello, not a like a
here's Johnny kind of hello. So this catchphrase was made
famous by Jack Nicholson in the film The Shining Jack
Nicholson shouted here's Johnny at the burst through a bathroom

(01:06:54):
door with a fireman's acts. This scene is known to
be the most frightening scene in movie history, and the
crew used sixty doors while filming this scene. Yeah, but
where did it's referring to Ed McMahon and the Tonight
Show with Johnny Carson. You know that. Oh my god,
there's two. Here's Johnny. That's the original one. He's Johnny.

(01:07:19):
Is the context of it? Yeah, that's Doc Severnsen and
his orchestra. That are Which one were they referring to?
What's the context of the quote? No, No, I think
you're right, Riley. I think it was. I think it
was maybe the Jack Nicholson one. But the original is
Ed McMahon. But yeah, wait, read us the context that
we can read us, a context and context oralized clote

(01:07:42):
is like a normal hello, not like a here's Johnny
kind of. So I think Scott's right. Think yes, I
think Scott's right. And we're not mad at you Riley
for this, because we're not mad at We're not mad
at you. But I think I think Scott is right
that it's not a normal hello, it's a here Johnny.
Yeah he was. He was paid millions of dollars per

(01:08:07):
year to say, here's Johnny. Best sidekick in the history
of television. Yeah, Riley, you do it. No, you don't know.
That was mannk and Crazy do the Ed McMahon. Here's
Johnny not bad, here's Johnny. Oh my moving on, lorrel

(01:08:33):
I says, while you're the new Heather. Heathers is in
comedy teen film. The film portrays four teenage girls, three
of whom are named Heather. Famous actors in the film
include Shannon Dougherty, win An Own, a writer, and Christians. Later,
they brought the Heathers back in two thousand eighteen. Yeah,
I didn't do what It didn't work that the reboot.
But that's okay because the o G. Heathers was solid.

(01:08:57):
Rory says Felix, referring to The Odd Couple. Felix is
the main character portrayed by Tony Randall in the American
sitcom TV series The Odd Couple. Felix had PTSD from
his time as the Navy seal. The character is known
to be a neurotic, obsessive, convulsive nut. In two thousand
and fifteen, The Odd Couple was created as a reboot
with Matthew Perry's Oscar and Thomas Lennon as Felix, based

(01:09:19):
on the originals play Broadway smash hit that Neil Simon wrote.
And there was nobody, you know, Neil Simon is uh.
All comedy writers even working today worship at the altar
of Neil Simon. There was nobody that wrote whittier, funnier,
more heartbreaking dialogue than Neil Simon, the king of comedy writers.

(01:09:43):
Did knowledge Scott and Well, I mean I I performed
him in New York. I studied Neil Simon. Uh. I
think he wrote The Out of Towners too, that film
that wonderfully hysterically funny film with Jack Lemon, And I
mean Neil Simon, Plaza Sweet, all these great great old movies,
Walter Walter Math. Now, oh my God, doesn't get better.

(01:10:04):
Neil Simon doesn't get better, Laurel I says, Look, I
know it was bad, but this was a vicious hamster.
This was like Damian Hamster. So Damien is referring to
The Omen, a horror films starring Gregory Peck. There are
many incarnations of the Omen. The film's title was changed twice.

(01:10:24):
It was first called The Antichrist and then The birth Mark.
They thought production was cursed because of the spooky events
that would happen while filming like plane accidents and dog attacks.
You know what they they stole that stuff from The Exorcist,
which had real issues after, during and after filming. You know,
I'm an Exorcist guy, right, Damien came after Exorcists, so

(01:10:47):
I grew up. My first real movie scare was my
mother allowed me to go see The Exorcist by myself
with my friends in an afternoon matinee and we were
green turned green with scared. The one so I was
of the Poulter geis Friday the thirteenth era. But the

(01:11:07):
one that really got me sideways recently, not that recently,
but like to the point where I couldn't breathe almost
how to leave the theater was saw Oh my God
original song. Oh but yeah, the Exorcist was messed up
on her head spinning. Yeah. But a great film because

(01:11:28):
it was really was a structured it was it was
it was the scary. The reason it was so effective
is because The Exorcist was based on a relationship between
a mother and a daughter and a mother losing her
daughter to the devil, and that was heartbreaking and it
was scary to watch. So Ellen Burston had this you know,

(01:11:48):
real Bravora performance in that watching her daughter turn into
a someone who possessed what what a what a horrifying film?
My god. Anyway, it was grounded in Mommy Daughter. It
was kind of like Yrmore girls crap out, So our
next one was actually referred to in our scene reenactment.

(01:12:09):
I'm sorry. Psycho was on earlier and it was just
the first name that came to mind. So Psycho is
in nineteen sixty psychological horror thriller film directed by ALFREDY Hitchcock.
Alfred financed the film himself since Paramount was not into
the project. There's an iconic shower scene with Janet Lee
and Psycho was remade in shot for shot. It was

(01:12:32):
also Freddie him Mort played Norman Bates and the TV
show Bates Motel, and this was a prequel to Psycho. Yeah,
the original extraordinary black. I love them all, I love
them all, I love bas Hotel. I didn't even mind
the Vince von remake. I love it all. I love
it on the Universal back Lot Tour total it's so good,

(01:12:54):
so good. The guy runs after you with like a
fake knife when you're on the tram. He ever for
Bates Motel, and it's always so scary. And you're like,
I know he's not going to actually stab me, but
you still freak out. I love it all. I love it.
So the title of our episode, Paris Is Burning, is
also a pop culture reference. So Paris Is Burning is

(01:13:15):
a American documentary film based on the dragball culture in
New York City. The film documents the origins of Vogueing
It dance, inspired by model poses inside the covers of
Vogue magazine. Can we play our game before we do
our favorite lines? Because I've been pretty pumped about this
game the whole show, because I feel like I might
I might, I might win. I have a chance. What's

(01:13:37):
the game? We don't don't even Warren Scott. Let's just
do it. Oh, I know what you're gonna do. Alphabet
dog names whatever ye dog names? Alphabet disease dogs they
were doing. I know Riley wants to do dog breeds,
horns and rainbows, but we need to do what was

(01:13:58):
on Gilmore was diseases. I'm ready for disease. I think
you'll go, So it'll go meet Scott, Danielle, Riley and
back around arthritis, um arrhythmia. No, you have to be
you have to do give you one more try ronchitis, yeah,

(01:14:24):
crowns dementia e oh god, um oh no, how much
time you go to me goes to me? And demetriosis? Um,

(01:14:47):
I was prepping te stuff, stalling, stop buying time? Um out? Okay?
So is it on me? Riley? Riley bs? I thought
Daniel just did she she didn't get anything. You gotta

(01:15:09):
do it now? You inherited f s hard fever a fever?
Dude sasease? What are you doing? Oh? Nice? Good? Save
gastritis age? Riley? Riley? We got out? Okay? So this

(01:15:37):
is a championship? Can I can I pinch it for Riley?
Hunts disease? What's it? What did you say? Hunt? What disease?
I think it's called Huntington's. It's not Hunts disease. And
I'm the winner. I'm the champion. Cannot get it away
with Hunts disease. I'm looking up Rain. I think it's
Huntington's Huntington's great game, though bad, I got my favorite

(01:16:00):
line ready. Though normally I would do a funny line,
but in this one, this is more emotional. I'm gonna
try and deliver it. Well. Do you have any idea
how many people you've hurt. Forget me and my mother.
But what about Mr Medina? He likes you, Paris, he
compliments you, He holds your papers up for everyone to see,
and then you turn around and do something like this
to him. What is wrong with you? Forget it? I

(01:16:21):
wouldn't expect you to understand. So good. Mine's also from Rory. Well,
I take some dance lessons because the way you express
yourself needs a little work. That was mine, You took mine? Yeah, Riley,
um mineus from your favorite character of all time, Max
and so loyal. Lie is describing her past men in

(01:16:44):
her life and uh he says, oh, so you have
a thing for pirates. Yeah. Um, I guess I have
to do a new line now since Danielle took my line. Um,
I think it's got to be rare. He had some
great moments on the stairs in the argument with her mother.

(01:17:04):
What does she say about help me out here? I
don't know, but I have one other sidebar one. Emily
says kissing a teacher in a classroom on parents Day
and Laurel I says, well, they wanted us to get
more involved in school. Yeah, that's a good one, okay.

(01:17:25):
Scott we have a little bit of exciting news for you.
Tell me. Oh my god. And all I'm going to
say is one word, what Rune r Max Perlack. Oh man.
The guy's genius. He's funny, he's funny. He was great
on set. Guy. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah, run a

(01:17:45):
couple episodes and I think three. I think Max. Yeah,
that's a Max. That's so. Everybody watched Double Date. Watched
Double Date. We'll do okay, everybody. That's it for uh,
Paris is burning. Thanks everybody. This is Scott Patterson and
this is the I Am All In Podcast, I Heeart Radio.

(01:18:10):
We will see you soon. Bye ja hey everybody, and

(01:18:43):
don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all
In Podcast and emailis at Gilmore at I heart radio
dot com. Oh you Gilmore fans. If you're looking for
the best cup of coffee in the world, go to
my website for my company scott EP dot com, s
c O T t y P dot com, scotty p
dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee. Yeah.