September 21, 2023 • 38 mins
The authors of Gilmore Girls: A Cultural History join Scott to provide additional expert opinions on the series in its entirety. (up until Season 5 at least....)
Lara and Rachel talk about why Stars Hollow is such an iconic place, the importance of all the pop culture references as well as why they feel sympathy for Emily. Plus, who really is the best fit for Rory and their honest opinion about Luke and Lorelai.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in. Let's just do.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I Am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all In podcast, one
of them production's iHeart Radio. We've got one on one
interview with two very distinguished women, so it's really a
two on once, a one on two interview with Lara
Stash and Rachel Davidson. And they are notable in that.
(00:42):
Lara's Assistant professor and Division of Communication, Visual Performing Arts
at Governor State University and writes about gender, rhetoric, popular culture.
She's an author of Breaking Bad Cultural History, Rowing in
a Little Field twenty seventeen. Rachel Davidson is Assistant professor
in the Department of Communication Hanover College. Or Research broadly
(01:04):
addresses rhetoric, rhetoric, and popular culture with interested in motherhood, caregiving,
and social advocacy. But they wrote a book. They got together.
They wrote a book called Gilmore Girls, A Cultural History.
It's no longer just a cult classic. Gillmore Girls is
a cultural staple for TV fans, so this is going
(01:29):
to be okay. So in Gilmore Girls a Cultural History,
the author's offering engaging analysis a popular see of the
popular series. The author examine how the show serves as
a representation of American culture, politics, reflects complexity within multiple
mother daughter dynamics, and unemployed literature, movies, music, and a
(01:51):
lot of cultural stuff that really smart academic ladies say.
So we've got them on. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Ladies, thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We're very, very excited. So tell us about the book itself,
how it got started, How you two came up with
the idea.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I started watching Gilmore Girls back when I was in college,
So I mean, I have loved this series forever, A
huge fan. I've got my hep Alien shirt on which
your listeners cannot see, but I will let you know
I am a big fan. And I tried to convince
Rachel to watch the show, and Rachel so that you
will not know about her until I tell you this.
(02:33):
She is very stubborn and she wish not watch it
until finally and I said, there's so much here. You've
got two girls like you, you'll love it. There's all
this pop culture stuff. And she finally couldn't resist me
and watched it and fell in love. And so we
were trying to decide what we wanted to work on
our next project. And I said, after having I'd done
(02:56):
the Breaking Bad book, and I said, there's only one
other series that I know better than that one, and
that is Gilmour Girls. And she was like, I'm all.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
In, So.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Man, here you are on I am all in.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I'm stubborn. And Lara is very patient because she waited
for me to watch this show for so long and
for me to get I think I needed my girls
to get to an age where they wanted to watch
the show with me. And then when I did, oh
my gosh, it just landed on me so hard. And
Lara I could we were talking on the phone and
I could see her smile just growing and she was
(03:31):
waiting for that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Okay, so you're hooked. We're writing a book, all right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So let me let me ask you the big question
right at the top. Why is the show such a
cultural staple for TV fans?
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Because I, well, I think Star's Hollow is kind of
this bubble and you can have these crazy, cooky, off
the wall personalities and just genuine affection for one another
and community. You have these witty pop culture references, and
(04:06):
I think you've gotten into this in a lot of
your episodes in the podcast, is like every time you
watch it there's something new, right, Like every time you
make different connections. And I think there's just something about
being able to go back and visit it. I always
say Stars Hollow is my happy place, and I think
if I actually live there, it might drive me crazy.
But I love visiting and it just the relationships are important.
(04:31):
I don't know, everything just is. It's sort of this
beautiful package.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So mm hmmm, Rachel, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I would just add that I think you know one
comforting aspect of the show. Every time I watch one
of the shows that has a town meeting, and the
town meeting's full, and some people are annoyed, some people
are falling asleep, some people are enjoying it. But the
fact is that all the people are there. And I
(05:01):
think that's something that we are missing, at least I'm
missing in some of my communities that I've lived in,
is just to have all of these people that come
together for the benefit of their community, that cares so
much about their community. And I think that's what I
love about what a lot of people love about Stars Hollow,
In particular, a.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Man that is an interesting observation because the town hall
meeting really roots the show in history, in American history,
because you can see going back to the eighteen hundreds
and seventeen hundreds, even the sixteen hundreds, you know, people
(05:41):
having those same types of meetings about what's going to
go on in that town and will they you know that,
you know, you know this, this will these horses continue
to leave their droppings here and we've got to do
something that's affecting the chicken coop. And that's a very
(06:02):
very interesting conversation. It really does link the show toward
you know, and it's an historic town as well.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So one of our chapters in the book is just
about that phenomenon, like what is it about stars Hollow
that is so appealing? And one a couple of things
that we wrote about is that, for one, Stars Hollow
is kind of untouched by commercialism. We're not seeing any
Starbucks or Applebee's or you know whatever. We have all
(06:32):
of these mom and pop shops. And then also just
the idea that, you know, one thing that we think
might be reflected in this in Stars Hollow is the
idea that there there's been a loss of small townness
in American culture, and so maybe Stars Hollow is one
way that we're kind of satisfying that need for community
(06:54):
and smallness and in our towns in which we live.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I'm all
about small tones. Okay, So let's get into and and
And that is why people talk about stars Hollow as
a very very important character in the show, maybe the
most important character in the show, because what what a
what what a backdrop you know to bounce everything off of.
(07:21):
So yeah, all modernity invading and how how conflicting and
how funny that can be and and hence you know,
the tone of the show. What. So let's talk about
the mother daughter relationship. I know you want to get
into that. So what are your thoughts on h on
on the Lurlai Rory relationship.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think that is why there are so many viewers
of different ages that find something because it's like the
r Rory Lrelai relationship, but also the Laurel I Emily
relationship and the Emily Rory relationship and the missus Kim
and Lane relationship. Like there's all these mother daughter dynam
that just can appeal to everyone. Right, Like my mom
(08:03):
watched the show. Rachel's daughters watched the show. We sort
of spanning generations who absolutely love watching that, and I
think we get into this, you know that I'm always
fascinated by people that are like I want to be
like you know, Rory and laurl I with my daughter
or whatever, or my mother. And it's like their relationship
was dysfunctional in a lot of ways, like it was
(08:24):
it was meant to be kind of, you know, not
perfect imperfect, which I think is also a comfort because
they cared about each other so much even if it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Perfect, right right, right, Laura, you said that beautifully. The
only thing I would add is, you know, speaking to
what Laura was talking about, as how it appeals to
different generations and where you're at at different stages in
your life. I remember my mom just recently telling me
that she was drawn to the show when it first
came out because of the representation of Laura as a
(08:56):
single mother, which was something and not just the representation
of a single mother, but one that is without shame
about that kind of status. And my mom was in
a similar situation and she loved that there was a brilliant, funny, witty,
single mother who who you know, she could see in
(09:19):
a situation similar to her own, So that it's one
thing I think that the show did really well too.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So in a way, Laurel I was a real touchstone
for all mothers, and especially all single mothers, and especially
all daughters of single mothers or daughters that wish their
fathers wouldn't be there, because she went through life saying
everything that every mother, married or single wishes they had said,
(09:45):
because she's basically going through life as a stand up
comic and making light and making fun and being irreverend
and being hysterically funny and being herself and being and
keeping her power all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And I think too unapologetically herself. I think maybe that's what.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was trying to say with the same piece, right,
just yeah, just her authentic being, and that's okay. I
wish I could live my life like Lareli as a
stand up comedian. I'm not that quick on my feet.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Right, right, right right. It's so aspirational in that regard,
because I think it's one of the things I take
away from the show, say, boy, can you imagine going
through life like that? How fun would that be to
have that kind of a brain that's going to be
so quippy and so clever and so immediately boom all
the time, the fast and the funnies all the time,
(10:38):
and every.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Emily is very similar.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I mean one go for me, I think, you know
that is where I see Lorelai getting her wit and humor.
I think Emily, I mean, her delivery is very different
than Laurelize. Not necessarily as you know, a stand up comedian,
but oh my gosh, so many lap out loud moments
with Emily.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
She's so I love that dynamic at Emily and Voorne.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Her values sort of come from a different place. But
even Emily's friends say, oh you're you're quick like your mother.
And a lot of the lines we pulled out best
line for every single episode. It's in the back of
the book, and a lot of the lines are Emily's
as much as they are Lorealies or the rest of
the town. Like everyone got good lines, which is I
think really important.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Can you go through the topics that the book covers.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, so we look at relationships. The first part of
the book looks at the relationships. We look at the
mother daughter dynamic, we look at fatherhood, and representations like
with Luke and Richard and Christopher, because you know, he
was this really important father figure, although inconsistent, it was
a you know, sort of a huge part of the plot.
(11:52):
We look at friendship, and then we look at feminism
in the show and how the show really deals with
that and how Amy Sherman Palladino had talked about how
she wanted it to deal with it. And then we
look at popular culture and the value of talking about
popular culture. We look at issues of class because that's
a huge theme. I mean, it's it's the undercurrents why
(12:16):
more life ran right, and then the small town living.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's also why she hasn't really changed that much.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, the tension between the classes in her living in
a place that doesn't really recognize that. I mean, it's
it's just a brilliant It's a brilliant, brilliant jumping off point,
isn't it. It really is. I mean, if you were
going to conceive a show, you know that would I mean,
and you said, because because what do writers do when
they're creating drama or they're creating comedy. They have to
(12:49):
create tension? So what brilliant, brilliant brilliant way to configure
some characters and just it just all works. I mean
it works right away.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, And starting in season one, you start to get
that tension where Lorelai ran so far away from it
and now Rory's inching her way back and Laura cannot
wrap her head around it. She doesn't know how to
feel about it, and it's complicated. It's the relationship with
her parents, but it's also just that life. And you
see that throughout every season. She starts dating Logan, she starts,
(13:24):
you know, sort of when Rory gets out of that
limo after the party after Dean breaks up with her,
and she's wearing the diamonds and she's like clearly had
a little bit to drink and she you know, and
Laura's just looking out the window. It's just the saddest
because it was not what she wanted for her daughter.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, but it's maybe what she wanted for herself and
what missed out.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
On, Yes, and attention constantly is it that she feels
like maybe she didn't want to run so far from
that life. She like went too far to extremes, which
would totally fit with Laura because she's, you know, she's
not perfect. She makes pretty extreme choices, right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, we were just discussing her
marriage proposal to Luke. So let's talk a little bit
about the Luke and Laura l I dynamic here. Do
you go into the talk discuss that discuss.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That we love Luke.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I'm telling each other, do not call him Luke. His
name is Scott.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And before I forget Scott, I wanted to tell you
I promised my My youngest daughter is eighteen. Her name
is Ivy, and she wanted me to tell you that
Luke is her favorite character because Luke reminds her of
her dad, which is my husband John. And also she
loves the sarcasm and your your humor, Luke's humor.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Shout out to Ivy, Ivy appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, I think you know. I've watched this series now.
I'm probably on my twelve viewing of it. I kind
of keep it on in the background, so it's kind of,
you know, always going. But I was watching it recently
and I think there's this episode, the eight o'clock at
the Oasis episode where Richard calls Laurali and he's like,
you have to fix this situation. You got to go
(15:18):
on that second date with Peyton played by John Hamm
right like you have to fix this. He's like, your
mother did not get the first cup of tea. And
they go back and forth and she's like this is insane,
and he goes, of course it's insane, like this is insane,
but my wife wants that tea. She's getting the first
cup of tea. So we're gonna fix this. And I
it occurred to me that it was beautiful, Like that's
(15:40):
the most romantic moment they have, like this love where
he's just like, I know it's crazy, but I'm gonna
make it happen for her. And I think Luke does
that for LAURALI I think consistently realizes that what she
wants is sometimes crazy and wacky, and she, like you know,
has all these sort of zany ideas, and he makes
it happen. Builds an isolating rink, and he creates a
(16:02):
fishing pond, and he bakes a cake for her daughter,
and you know, like he just he's there for her
and even if it's not something he understands fully, he
is there to help her. And so I think that's
why their relationship is just so fun to watch and
so romantic.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's so romantic, and I love the the slowness over
the seasons of how it evolves and changes and how
tension is is created. I just I love from the
very first episode how Luke you know, portrays this like
protective you know, protective persona over both Rory and laurel I.
(16:47):
One of my favorite episodes is when Luke rents or
buys the the self help tapes about love and tries
tries to hide them, but then he sees Laurali's face
and then he's like, whoa is I just love it love.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yes, I love that relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And one thing I think is really cool and was
distinct about Luke and Larelli's relationship as opposed to Larelei
and some of her other suitors was I think Luke
bridged both.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Like passionate love and companionate love.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So there was something It wasn't just that romantic side,
but then there was also the long term companionate aspect
of their relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right. They knew how to relax and hang with each other, right, Yeah,
it wasn't all needy all the time. Yeah, you're talking
about two pretty rebellious individuals who were really rooted in
their individuality coming together and not sort of trying to
invade each other's territory all the time. So there's a
(17:52):
lot it's still a lot of tension there too, and
there's like that class element to it because he ate
from the upper rungs is a soyah. It was an
interesting dynamic, wasn't it. Yeah, it really was. Let's look
at it from I mean, you brought up this feminist angle, right,
and Amy shrim Palladino obviously steeped this show in feminism
(18:14):
and talk about that as it relates to luc and
Laurelized relationship and one thing specifically is that she proposed
to him and how that sort of turned this all
on its head. So talk about the feminist aspect first
and how it affects that relationship.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yeah. Well, I think the show does a really good job.
We sort of talk about it in the book as
like being very representative of contemporary feminism at the time.
I think we've seen a bit of a shift post
like Weinstein Me Too situation, But prior to that, these
conversations were kind of couched. We talked about it, you know,
but I think sort of this idea of bad feminism.
(18:54):
Roxanne Gay, she's a feminist who brought up this idea
of bad feminism and that there's not just this one
way to be feminist. And so I think although Lorelai
is very independent, I think she relies on Luke a lot,
and I think that's part of her journey is figuring
out how to let someone into her life and why
it's such a slow build, but like let someone into
(19:16):
her life and be a partner for her, because she
really sort of embraced this, like it's just me and
my daughter and I'm going to make this work, and
she did a great job with it. But then her
daughter goes off to school and has a life, and
season four is all about her trying to figure out, like,
now what is she going to do with her life?
You know? So I think this show really plays with
the tensions of feminism where we do it. It's not
(19:40):
this idea of radical feminism, it's how do we do
feminism in everyday life? And I think Luke was a
great counterpart because he was both masculine but also very
compassionate in his own way, and I love that she proposed.
And then you'll get into you know, in season six
when you guys start covering that, like there's a bit
(20:00):
of tension there for him, where the town is kind
of questioning like, oh, she proposed right, like, and he
has to try to deal with that and figure out like, Okay,
how do I feel about this? No, I'm fine with it, right,
And so I think their dynamic together sort of highlights
any kind of I don't know, tensions with that.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So I have stated previously that I had a problem
with her proposing to Luke because it was coming from
a really greedy kind of actor place where I wanted
to play those scenes and I didn't get a chance to,
you know what I mean. I think that's really all
it is. Anyway, Rachel, go ahead and chime in, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I was just gonna actually shift just a tiny bit.
The other part in our book where we're talking about
feminism is in the friendship chapter, which was really interesting
to us and for Lauren and I to plush this out.
But you know, typically what we, you know, at this time,
would have seen in the portrayal of women is women
(21:01):
in competition with each other. You know, women not very
nice to each other, women not supporting each other. So
one very refreshing aspect that we saw reflections of feminists
and is all of these wonderful female friendships and supporting
each other and supporting so that the emphasis isn't always
(21:22):
on romantic relationships, but also in these these very functional
female friendships between different women.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Laura and her mother were at odds so often did
you ever think, as fans watching the show and thinking
about it, uh post viewing, that Laurela had crossed the
line into into insanity and a complete uh not appreciate
(21:52):
what her mother was trying to do or whether her
father was trying to do. To talk about that a
little bit, I.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Mean, I think Amy Sherman, Palladino and Dani I think
they have so many episodes where we can sympathize with Emily.
I think lorele I is very well positioned as an
unreliable narrator. She reacts emotionally very quickly, She doesn't always
think things through, and she thinks she's right. And I
(22:17):
think this the scene where she goes storming into Emily's
house with Max Medina and is like, how couldn't you
you don't care that I'm getting married? You're so cold?
And Emily finally turns around and she's like, I know
how you feel. How would you fill if a stranger
told you your daughter was getting married? You know? And
for Emily in that moment, not Laura. Couldn't she just
(22:38):
tell her? Right? I mean, obviously conflict for the show,
but I think that she's a very sympathetic character in
a lot of ways while also being very frustrating as
a mother and sort of you can see both sides
of it a lot of times. And the one where
Laurai writes the letter dear Emily and Richard yea episode
(22:59):
is just you just want to give Emily a hug
and be like that must have been like torture, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So, Rachel, why do you think Tricksie was kryptonite to Emily?
Why did Emily lose all her powers around Trixy? And why?
Let's yeah, so talk about that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I love so Trixies and maybe three episodes right, and that, Yeah,
the dynamic that she brings in because I think in
those moments we're seeing I think Emily in the place
of Laura. I you know, we we wrote about you know,
that kind of back and forth and you know, one
(23:45):
thing that I have that I really loved in one
of the episodes that Laura just talked about, Dear Emily
and Richard, Trixy is not in there, so I'm debating
just a little bit. But the way in which the
show plays with identification with Emily, I think is really
really smart, especially in those those moments when we're getting
(24:07):
the backstory of Emily and we're seeing, you know, we're
starting to kind of understand and explain some of her
terrible behaviors towards Laurli and it starts to kind of
click with viewers. I think it makes sense, and I
think Trixy also does that, So we're starting to build
some sympathy. We're seeing Emily in a very different role,
(24:30):
not as you know, the Laurali's mom, but as a
daughter in law herself. Laura, I know you have stuff
to say about Tricksy too.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, no, I know, I thought you that was great, Like,
I think it's fascinating because she's in that position and
yet she doesn't recognize how she does the same things
to Laura. So you're just like, we're not learning here, right,
But that's that's part of the I don't know, the
appeal and the fact that Tricksy does like laurle i values,
(25:01):
you know, gives her some validation for all that she's accomplished.
I think was really important.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And complicates as well, like the the arrangements between and
the connections that that that Emily is trying to maintain
in order to stay connected with Laura lyon y Where.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Do you guys fall on this this season? End of
season five, Rory going to living in the poolhouse at
Grandma's house and dropping out of Yale.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I think it was incredibly important. It needed to happen.
And it's funny because when you rewatch the series over
and over, you catch these moments and then I think
it's the pilot or the first, you know, the second episode,
Suki says to Laura, l I, now you know as
Rory's about to go to Chilton, right like still early.
Now you guys can have a normal mother daughter relationship
(25:58):
where you fight and you you know you have that.
And they still didn't really get there until this moment.
They had fights, but this is like off fight and
they have to figure it out separately, and I think
it was an incredibly important moment. It is like torture
to watch those though, because so much of the relate
there's so much of the show is their relationships, so
(26:18):
you're kind of in limbo. I love being able to
binge them because I can just get through those and
back to where they're together again.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, as a viewer, it's so frustrating those months. I
think it's like in the narrative of the show, it's
five months maybe that they're separated, but then their reunification
is one of my favorite moments of the show because
I feel like, Okay, Laura, I putting all of these
topics of conversations, like things I need to talk to
(26:46):
Rory about when we come back together.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I was like, I'm going to steal that in case
I ever have any falling out with my children. But
it's just such a beautiful coming together moment after that.
And I agree with with Laura that as we were
writing about that, I think I came to understand and
appreciate that part of the show more than as a
viewer being frustrated. I think it was it was necessary,
(27:12):
and I think also it was now that I'm entering
into empty nester stage, like I'm appreciating that that part
of the show and Laura I really figuring out who
she is without Rory because you know, I'm learning that
your role as parent, Like I feel like I need
(27:33):
a parenting book, just a parent, you know, adult children.
And so that's a really interesting, you know phase that
the show that the show presents us with, but.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It is it is gosh, you know, it's such a
powerful then running through this is that everybody knows what's
going to happen. We know nobody's going to die, but
we do know that Rory is going to grow up.
(28:06):
We do know that she's going to go off to school.
We do know that she's going to graduate. We do
know that she's going to start her own life. And
isn't that really something to watch? That's separating from her
mom when they were so they started off so close
and then now that's drifting apart. That is that is
(28:28):
a powerful magnet for an audience. It really is.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
And it's real too, you know, it's so real, real
things that happened.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Well, I think it was really important. Laura. I stood firm.
She has to figure this out on her own, she
has to make these mistakes. And Luke was like, we
gotta go get her, We got to go kidnapper, We
got to talk to her right, and it's like she's
going to have to figure this out and she's going
to make some major mistakes while she does this, and
it has to happen. And then right before they get
back together. Oh wait, have you you haven't gotten there.
(28:58):
I don't want to. I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That's seasons. Please don't please. I haven't seen it yet.
I haven't seen it. That's okay, that's okay, all right,
So let's get into Rory's relationships. Okay, uh discuss you know,
the Deans, the Jesses, the Logans. Talk about those dynamics
(29:20):
and what they did or didn't do for Rory.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Well, I do want to say we were pretty anti
Logan in our book, and I think we both can
say that perhaps we were a little aggressive with that.
I feel like, uh, I sort of understand where that
comes from. Like Rory really experiences all the tropes of
romantic novels. She gets Dean, the jockslash motorcycle driver. He
(29:47):
was kind of he kind of his personality shifted a
bit by season two. Then she gets Jess, who's like
the bad boy but super smart and the only one
that could really understand what, you know, her level of
intelligence and she goes on to Logan, who's like this millionaire.
It's every trope and she gets to experience it. So
I do want to say, if anyone reads our book,
(30:09):
I'm a little less anti Logan, even though he was
my least favorite choice for Rory. And I think probably
we've talked about it a few times that perhaps we
were a little aggressive in our anti Logan sentiments in
the book. But yeah, I think I think when Rory
(30:29):
dates Jess and Luke's like, are we okay with this?
Like is this? Are you okay with it? Right? Because
you know, she really did not want that to happen,
and she says, I think it's about time for a
Jess and it's like, yes, that's you have to kind
of figure out who is your partner, right, Like who
is who are you compatible with? It's not always going
to be the same. And I think the parallels between
(30:52):
Dean and Luke and Christopher and Logan, like Dean he's
not the one for her, even though Luke is the
one for Laura, you know, and Jess brings something really
important for her. He's my favorite. I am totally team Jess,
but I don't think he's the best fit for her.
He is, he just doesn't give her what she needs.
(31:16):
I don't think Logan's the right fit. But clearly later
in life she you know, maybe continues that path.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So yeah, that's the acid test for me with Logan,
because I'm very fond of Logan and I think he's
super smart and I think he does give her what
he needs. But the thing is, the acid test is
ten years from now, when they're married, they have a
couple of kids, and he's running the empire, is Daddy's empire?
Is he going to cheat on her? Do you see
him cheating on her? And I kind of do?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Is Rory gonna cheat on him?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Pat?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I Meanyeah, She's a pretty complicated character, and it's yeah,
it's not necessarily sunshine and roses for everyone, Right, Rachel,
what you said in the book that you wanted her
to choose herself so she had a very.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well I was going to say that also that if
I had to choose, I'm definitely team Jess. But in
our book we end that chapter with the possibility of
a fourth option, and that is Marty.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
That's right, who's probably the best guy for her. He's
mister reliable, Yeah, Yeah, he's gonna make he's always going
to make a good living. He's always he's going to
get a teaching position at a smaller college, and he's
going to be the steady He's going to be steady, steady,
steady guy. He's going to love her, he's going to
worship her. It's going to be a great life for
(32:36):
those two. But she just doesn't get that spark from him,
you know. So yeah, yeah, I know, I've seen it
all that way, Yeah, seeing it all before. What was
your favorite part of the series.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I do just absolutely adore the female friendships, especially between
Lorle and I just I love Melissa McCarthy and I
just love what she did with that character. But I
just love that that was an aspect of the show.
It wasn't just focused on, you know, a romantic relationship.
But my favorite part did you say favorite moment or
(33:17):
favorite part.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Of the series or favorite part?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Okay, I love Kirk's short film that they play. I
think it's season two and it's at the Stars Hollow movie.
First of all, I love when Laura I thinks she's
going to be able to choose a film and she
she I think references Fletch and Arthur, which makes me
(33:43):
laugh every time, and Sophie's choice as well. But then
when we get to see Kirk's film that I just
thought the show is so smart. I just loved it.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Watch it frequently, right right right, Laura, one last idea here.
What was so distinct about the show compared to other
shows during that time two thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
I mean, I think even on the network that it
was on the very first the pilot episode, Laura la
I says to Rory, like I had DIBs on being
the beat to night right, Like you did not see
that on any shows that were airing on a family network.
And it was just a very real representation of how
(34:38):
people actually talk to each other, not these sappy moments.
And I think that was one of the comments that
Amy Sherman Palladino made, was like I didn't love the
close ups. I didn't want the emotional, like sad thing.
It was about making tragic figures funny. And I think
I watch it every time and I'm like, they are
They've got these tragic stories, all of them, and yet
(35:01):
it is so funny. So I think it was it
was I've never come across another show like it. Somebody
will say it's like Gilmore Girls, and I always watch
it and I'm like, no, more good. It's fine, but
it's not. Don't say it's like Gilmore Girls, because you
just can't do it. Even Marvelous Mismaans. I mean, that's
(35:21):
a totally different thing, right, It's it's it's it's just
it's sort of on its own. Son.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, I would just said to that too.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Just the quantity and the quality of the pop culture
references I think keeps people coming back to the show
because and there's someone a scholar that requoted in the
pop culture chapter that it's not so highbrow references where
it's like condescending to the audience. Some of the references
(35:53):
I know, and when I know them, I'm so proud
of myself and I feel really good. But then the
other references, I'm like, I'm going to go look that
up because Lorelai is super cool, and I want to know.
I want to read what she's reading or I want
to watch what she's watching. And I don't know how
Amy did that, Like, I don't know how she created
just very carefully these pop culture references that that keeps
(36:19):
people coming back I mean still when I rewatch it
now I I write down I need to look up
who you know, whoever whatever, look.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
At this movie.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
It cannot catch everything, which was very difficult when we
were writing this book, gather evidence.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Well, I can tell you that the type of couple
that goes on a vacation and they take a hundred
books with them, that's what they do on vacation. They
read no right, so but yeah, I agree with you.
That's that's that's the very special special sauce of the show.
I agree. Anyway, that's all the time we have. We
(37:02):
got to have you back on the show. It's a
fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Rachel
Davidson at Lara Stage. The book is Gilmore Girls of
Cultural History. Go out and get yourself a copy. Thank you,
ladies so much, and hopefully talk soon.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Hey everybody and Tuls again. Follow us on Instagram at
I Am All In podcast and email us at Gilmour
at iHeartRadio dot com.
I am all in. Let's just do.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I Am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all In podcast, one
of them production's iHeart Radio. We've got one on one
interview with two very distinguished women, so it's really a
two on once, a one on two interview with Lara
Stash and Rachel Davidson. And they are notable in that.
(00:42):
Lara's Assistant professor and Division of Communication, Visual Performing Arts
at Governor State University and writes about gender, rhetoric, popular culture.
She's an author of Breaking Bad Cultural History, Rowing in
a Little Field twenty seventeen. Rachel Davidson is Assistant professor
in the Department of Communication Hanover College. Or Research broadly
(01:04):
addresses rhetoric, rhetoric, and popular culture with interested in motherhood, caregiving,
and social advocacy. But they wrote a book. They got together.
They wrote a book called Gilmore Girls, A Cultural History.
It's no longer just a cult classic. Gillmore Girls is
a cultural staple for TV fans, so this is going
(01:29):
to be okay. So in Gilmore Girls a Cultural History,
the author's offering engaging analysis a popular see of the
popular series. The author examine how the show serves as
a representation of American culture, politics, reflects complexity within multiple
mother daughter dynamics, and unemployed literature, movies, music, and a
(01:51):
lot of cultural stuff that really smart academic ladies say.
So we've got them on. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Ladies, thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We're very, very excited. So tell us about the book itself,
how it got started, How you two came up with
the idea.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I started watching Gilmore Girls back when I was in college,
So I mean, I have loved this series forever, A
huge fan. I've got my hep Alien shirt on which
your listeners cannot see, but I will let you know
I am a big fan. And I tried to convince
Rachel to watch the show, and Rachel so that you
will not know about her until I tell you this.
(02:33):
She is very stubborn and she wish not watch it
until finally and I said, there's so much here. You've
got two girls like you, you'll love it. There's all
this pop culture stuff. And she finally couldn't resist me
and watched it and fell in love. And so we
were trying to decide what we wanted to work on
our next project. And I said, after having I'd done
(02:56):
the Breaking Bad book, and I said, there's only one
other series that I know better than that one, and
that is Gilmour Girls. And she was like, I'm all.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
In, So.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Man, here you are on I am all in.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I'm stubborn. And Lara is very patient because she waited
for me to watch this show for so long and
for me to get I think I needed my girls
to get to an age where they wanted to watch
the show with me. And then when I did, oh
my gosh, it just landed on me so hard. And
Lara I could we were talking on the phone and
I could see her smile just growing and she was
(03:31):
waiting for that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Okay, so you're hooked. We're writing a book, all right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So let me let me ask you the big question
right at the top. Why is the show such a
cultural staple for TV fans?
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Because I, well, I think Star's Hollow is kind of
this bubble and you can have these crazy, cooky, off
the wall personalities and just genuine affection for one another
and community. You have these witty pop culture references, and
(04:06):
I think you've gotten into this in a lot of
your episodes in the podcast, is like every time you
watch it there's something new, right, Like every time you
make different connections. And I think there's just something about
being able to go back and visit it. I always
say Stars Hollow is my happy place, and I think
if I actually live there, it might drive me crazy.
But I love visiting and it just the relationships are important.
(04:31):
I don't know, everything just is. It's sort of this
beautiful package.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So mm hmmm, Rachel, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I would just add that I think you know one
comforting aspect of the show. Every time I watch one
of the shows that has a town meeting, and the
town meeting's full, and some people are annoyed, some people
are falling asleep, some people are enjoying it. But the
fact is that all the people are there. And I
(05:01):
think that's something that we are missing, at least I'm
missing in some of my communities that I've lived in,
is just to have all of these people that come
together for the benefit of their community, that cares so
much about their community. And I think that's what I
love about what a lot of people love about Stars Hollow,
In particular, a.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Man that is an interesting observation because the town hall
meeting really roots the show in history, in American history,
because you can see going back to the eighteen hundreds
and seventeen hundreds, even the sixteen hundreds, you know, people
(05:41):
having those same types of meetings about what's going to
go on in that town and will they you know that,
you know, you know this, this will these horses continue
to leave their droppings here and we've got to do
something that's affecting the chicken coop. And that's a very
(06:02):
very interesting conversation. It really does link the show toward
you know, and it's an historic town as well.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So one of our chapters in the book is just
about that phenomenon, like what is it about stars Hollow
that is so appealing? And one a couple of things
that we wrote about is that, for one, Stars Hollow
is kind of untouched by commercialism. We're not seeing any
Starbucks or Applebee's or you know whatever. We have all
(06:32):
of these mom and pop shops. And then also just
the idea that, you know, one thing that we think
might be reflected in this in Stars Hollow is the
idea that there there's been a loss of small townness
in American culture, and so maybe Stars Hollow is one
way that we're kind of satisfying that need for community
(06:54):
and smallness and in our towns in which we live.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I'm all
about small tones. Okay, So let's get into and and
And that is why people talk about stars Hollow as
a very very important character in the show, maybe the
most important character in the show, because what what a
what what a backdrop you know to bounce everything off of.
(07:21):
So yeah, all modernity invading and how how conflicting and
how funny that can be and and hence you know,
the tone of the show. What. So let's talk about
the mother daughter relationship. I know you want to get
into that. So what are your thoughts on h on
on the Lurlai Rory relationship.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think that is why there are so many viewers
of different ages that find something because it's like the
r Rory Lrelai relationship, but also the Laurel I Emily
relationship and the Emily Rory relationship and the missus Kim
and Lane relationship. Like there's all these mother daughter dynam
that just can appeal to everyone. Right, Like my mom
(08:03):
watched the show. Rachel's daughters watched the show. We sort
of spanning generations who absolutely love watching that, and I
think we get into this, you know that I'm always
fascinated by people that are like I want to be
like you know, Rory and laurl I with my daughter
or whatever, or my mother. And it's like their relationship
was dysfunctional in a lot of ways, like it was
(08:24):
it was meant to be kind of, you know, not
perfect imperfect, which I think is also a comfort because
they cared about each other so much even if it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Perfect, right right, right, Laura, you said that beautifully. The
only thing I would add is, you know, speaking to
what Laura was talking about, as how it appeals to
different generations and where you're at at different stages in
your life. I remember my mom just recently telling me
that she was drawn to the show when it first
came out because of the representation of Laura as a
(08:56):
single mother, which was something and not just the representation
of a single mother, but one that is without shame
about that kind of status. And my mom was in
a similar situation and she loved that there was a brilliant, funny, witty,
single mother who who you know, she could see in
(09:19):
a situation similar to her own, So that it's one
thing I think that the show did really well too.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So in a way, Laurel I was a real touchstone
for all mothers, and especially all single mothers, and especially
all daughters of single mothers or daughters that wish their
fathers wouldn't be there, because she went through life saying
everything that every mother, married or single wishes they had said,
(09:45):
because she's basically going through life as a stand up
comic and making light and making fun and being irreverend
and being hysterically funny and being herself and being and
keeping her power all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And I think too unapologetically herself. I think maybe that's what.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was trying to say with the same piece, right,
just yeah, just her authentic being, and that's okay. I
wish I could live my life like Lareli as a
stand up comedian. I'm not that quick on my feet.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Right, right, right right. It's so aspirational in that regard,
because I think it's one of the things I take
away from the show, say, boy, can you imagine going
through life like that? How fun would that be to
have that kind of a brain that's going to be
so quippy and so clever and so immediately boom all
the time, the fast and the funnies all the time,
(10:38):
and every.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Emily is very similar.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I mean one go for me, I think, you know
that is where I see Lorelai getting her wit and humor.
I think Emily, I mean, her delivery is very different
than Laurelize. Not necessarily as you know, a stand up comedian,
but oh my gosh, so many lap out loud moments
with Emily.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
She's so I love that dynamic at Emily and Voorne.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Her values sort of come from a different place. But
even Emily's friends say, oh you're you're quick like your mother.
And a lot of the lines we pulled out best
line for every single episode. It's in the back of
the book, and a lot of the lines are Emily's
as much as they are Lorealies or the rest of
the town. Like everyone got good lines, which is I
think really important.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Can you go through the topics that the book covers.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, so we look at relationships. The first part of
the book looks at the relationships. We look at the
mother daughter dynamic, we look at fatherhood, and representations like
with Luke and Richard and Christopher, because you know, he
was this really important father figure, although inconsistent, it was
a you know, sort of a huge part of the plot.
(11:52):
We look at friendship, and then we look at feminism
in the show and how the show really deals with
that and how Amy Sherman Palladino had talked about how
she wanted it to deal with it. And then we
look at popular culture and the value of talking about
popular culture. We look at issues of class because that's
a huge theme. I mean, it's it's the undercurrents why
(12:16):
more life ran right, and then the small town living.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's also why she hasn't really changed that much.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, the tension between the classes in her living in
a place that doesn't really recognize that. I mean, it's
it's just a brilliant It's a brilliant, brilliant jumping off point,
isn't it. It really is. I mean, if you were
going to conceive a show, you know that would I mean,
and you said, because because what do writers do when
they're creating drama or they're creating comedy. They have to
(12:49):
create tension? So what brilliant, brilliant brilliant way to configure
some characters and just it just all works. I mean
it works right away.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, And starting in season one, you start to get
that tension where Lorelai ran so far away from it
and now Rory's inching her way back and Laura cannot
wrap her head around it. She doesn't know how to
feel about it, and it's complicated. It's the relationship with
her parents, but it's also just that life. And you
see that throughout every season. She starts dating Logan, she starts,
(13:24):
you know, sort of when Rory gets out of that
limo after the party after Dean breaks up with her,
and she's wearing the diamonds and she's like clearly had
a little bit to drink and she you know, and
Laura's just looking out the window. It's just the saddest
because it was not what she wanted for her daughter.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, but it's maybe what she wanted for herself and
what missed out.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
On, Yes, and attention constantly is it that she feels
like maybe she didn't want to run so far from
that life. She like went too far to extremes, which
would totally fit with Laura because she's, you know, she's
not perfect. She makes pretty extreme choices, right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, we were just discussing her
marriage proposal to Luke. So let's talk a little bit
about the Luke and Laura l I dynamic here. Do
you go into the talk discuss that discuss.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That we love Luke.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I'm telling each other, do not call him Luke. His
name is Scott.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And before I forget Scott, I wanted to tell you
I promised my My youngest daughter is eighteen. Her name
is Ivy, and she wanted me to tell you that
Luke is her favorite character because Luke reminds her of
her dad, which is my husband John. And also she
loves the sarcasm and your your humor, Luke's humor.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Shout out to Ivy, Ivy appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, I think you know. I've watched this series now.
I'm probably on my twelve viewing of it. I kind
of keep it on in the background, so it's kind of,
you know, always going. But I was watching it recently
and I think there's this episode, the eight o'clock at
the Oasis episode where Richard calls Laurali and he's like,
you have to fix this situation. You got to go
(15:18):
on that second date with Peyton played by John Hamm
right like you have to fix this. He's like, your
mother did not get the first cup of tea. And
they go back and forth and she's like this is insane,
and he goes, of course it's insane, like this is insane,
but my wife wants that tea. She's getting the first
cup of tea. So we're gonna fix this. And I
it occurred to me that it was beautiful, Like that's
(15:40):
the most romantic moment they have, like this love where
he's just like, I know it's crazy, but I'm gonna
make it happen for her. And I think Luke does
that for LAURALI I think consistently realizes that what she
wants is sometimes crazy and wacky, and she, like you know,
has all these sort of zany ideas, and he makes
it happen. Builds an isolating rink, and he creates a
(16:02):
fishing pond, and he bakes a cake for her daughter,
and you know, like he just he's there for her
and even if it's not something he understands fully, he
is there to help her. And so I think that's
why their relationship is just so fun to watch and
so romantic.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's so romantic, and I love the the slowness over
the seasons of how it evolves and changes and how
tension is is created. I just I love from the
very first episode how Luke you know, portrays this like
protective you know, protective persona over both Rory and laurel I.
(16:47):
One of my favorite episodes is when Luke rents or
buys the the self help tapes about love and tries
tries to hide them, but then he sees Laurali's face
and then he's like, whoa is I just love it love.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yes, I love that relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And one thing I think is really cool and was
distinct about Luke and Larelli's relationship as opposed to Larelei
and some of her other suitors was I think Luke
bridged both.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Like passionate love and companionate love.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So there was something It wasn't just that romantic side,
but then there was also the long term companionate aspect
of their relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right. They knew how to relax and hang with each other, right, Yeah,
it wasn't all needy all the time. Yeah, you're talking
about two pretty rebellious individuals who were really rooted in
their individuality coming together and not sort of trying to
invade each other's territory all the time. So there's a
(17:52):
lot it's still a lot of tension there too, and
there's like that class element to it because he ate
from the upper rungs is a soyah. It was an
interesting dynamic, wasn't it. Yeah, it really was. Let's look
at it from I mean, you brought up this feminist angle, right,
and Amy shrim Palladino obviously steeped this show in feminism
(18:14):
and talk about that as it relates to luc and
Laurelized relationship and one thing specifically is that she proposed
to him and how that sort of turned this all
on its head. So talk about the feminist aspect first
and how it affects that relationship.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Yeah. Well, I think the show does a really good job.
We sort of talk about it in the book as
like being very representative of contemporary feminism at the time.
I think we've seen a bit of a shift post
like Weinstein Me Too situation, But prior to that, these
conversations were kind of couched. We talked about it, you know,
but I think sort of this idea of bad feminism.
(18:54):
Roxanne Gay, she's a feminist who brought up this idea
of bad feminism and that there's not just this one
way to be feminist. And so I think although Lorelai
is very independent, I think she relies on Luke a lot,
and I think that's part of her journey is figuring
out how to let someone into her life and why
it's such a slow build, but like let someone into
(19:16):
her life and be a partner for her, because she
really sort of embraced this, like it's just me and
my daughter and I'm going to make this work, and
she did a great job with it. But then her
daughter goes off to school and has a life, and
season four is all about her trying to figure out, like,
now what is she going to do with her life?
You know? So I think this show really plays with
the tensions of feminism where we do it. It's not
(19:40):
this idea of radical feminism, it's how do we do
feminism in everyday life? And I think Luke was a
great counterpart because he was both masculine but also very
compassionate in his own way, and I love that she proposed.
And then you'll get into you know, in season six
when you guys start covering that, like there's a bit
(20:00):
of tension there for him, where the town is kind
of questioning like, oh, she proposed right, like, and he
has to try to deal with that and figure out like, Okay,
how do I feel about this? No, I'm fine with it, right,
And so I think their dynamic together sort of highlights
any kind of I don't know, tensions with that.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So I have stated previously that I had a problem
with her proposing to Luke because it was coming from
a really greedy kind of actor place where I wanted
to play those scenes and I didn't get a chance to,
you know what I mean. I think that's really all
it is. Anyway, Rachel, go ahead and chime in, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I was just gonna actually shift just a tiny bit.
The other part in our book where we're talking about
feminism is in the friendship chapter, which was really interesting
to us and for Lauren and I to plush this out.
But you know, typically what we, you know, at this time,
would have seen in the portrayal of women is women
(21:01):
in competition with each other. You know, women not very
nice to each other, women not supporting each other. So
one very refreshing aspect that we saw reflections of feminists
and is all of these wonderful female friendships and supporting
each other and supporting so that the emphasis isn't always
(21:22):
on romantic relationships, but also in these these very functional
female friendships between different women.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Laura and her mother were at odds so often did
you ever think, as fans watching the show and thinking
about it, uh post viewing, that Laurela had crossed the
line into into insanity and a complete uh not appreciate
(21:52):
what her mother was trying to do or whether her
father was trying to do. To talk about that a
little bit, I.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Mean, I think Amy Sherman, Palladino and Dani I think
they have so many episodes where we can sympathize with Emily.
I think lorele I is very well positioned as an
unreliable narrator. She reacts emotionally very quickly, She doesn't always
think things through, and she thinks she's right. And I
(22:17):
think this the scene where she goes storming into Emily's
house with Max Medina and is like, how couldn't you
you don't care that I'm getting married? You're so cold?
And Emily finally turns around and she's like, I know
how you feel. How would you fill if a stranger
told you your daughter was getting married? You know? And
for Emily in that moment, not Laura. Couldn't she just
(22:38):
tell her? Right? I mean, obviously conflict for the show,
but I think that she's a very sympathetic character in
a lot of ways while also being very frustrating as
a mother and sort of you can see both sides
of it a lot of times. And the one where
Laurai writes the letter dear Emily and Richard yea episode
(22:59):
is just you just want to give Emily a hug
and be like that must have been like torture, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So, Rachel, why do you think Tricksie was kryptonite to Emily?
Why did Emily lose all her powers around Trixy? And why?
Let's yeah, so talk about that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I love so Trixies and maybe three episodes right, and that, Yeah,
the dynamic that she brings in because I think in
those moments we're seeing I think Emily in the place
of Laura. I you know, we we wrote about you know,
that kind of back and forth and you know, one
(23:45):
thing that I have that I really loved in one
of the episodes that Laura just talked about, Dear Emily
and Richard, Trixy is not in there, so I'm debating
just a little bit. But the way in which the
show plays with identification with Emily, I think is really
really smart, especially in those those moments when we're getting
(24:07):
the backstory of Emily and we're seeing, you know, we're
starting to kind of understand and explain some of her
terrible behaviors towards Laurli and it starts to kind of
click with viewers. I think it makes sense, and I
think Trixy also does that, So we're starting to build
some sympathy. We're seeing Emily in a very different role,
(24:30):
not as you know, the Laurali's mom, but as a
daughter in law herself. Laura, I know you have stuff
to say about Tricksy too.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, no, I know, I thought you that was great, Like,
I think it's fascinating because she's in that position and
yet she doesn't recognize how she does the same things
to Laura. So you're just like, we're not learning here, right,
But that's that's part of the I don't know, the
appeal and the fact that Tricksy does like laurle i values,
(25:01):
you know, gives her some validation for all that she's accomplished.
I think was really important.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And complicates as well, like the the arrangements between and
the connections that that that Emily is trying to maintain
in order to stay connected with Laura lyon y Where.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Do you guys fall on this this season? End of
season five, Rory going to living in the poolhouse at
Grandma's house and dropping out of Yale.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I think it was incredibly important. It needed to happen.
And it's funny because when you rewatch the series over
and over, you catch these moments and then I think
it's the pilot or the first, you know, the second episode,
Suki says to Laura, l I, now you know as
Rory's about to go to Chilton, right like still early.
Now you guys can have a normal mother daughter relationship
(25:58):
where you fight and you you know you have that.
And they still didn't really get there until this moment.
They had fights, but this is like off fight and
they have to figure it out separately, and I think
it was an incredibly important moment. It is like torture
to watch those though, because so much of the relate
there's so much of the show is their relationships, so
(26:18):
you're kind of in limbo. I love being able to
binge them because I can just get through those and
back to where they're together again.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, as a viewer, it's so frustrating those months. I
think it's like in the narrative of the show, it's
five months maybe that they're separated, but then their reunification
is one of my favorite moments of the show because
I feel like, Okay, Laura, I putting all of these
topics of conversations, like things I need to talk to
(26:46):
Rory about when we come back together.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I was like, I'm going to steal that in case
I ever have any falling out with my children. But
it's just such a beautiful coming together moment after that.
And I agree with with Laura that as we were
writing about that, I think I came to understand and
appreciate that part of the show more than as a
viewer being frustrated. I think it was it was necessary,
(27:12):
and I think also it was now that I'm entering
into empty nester stage, like I'm appreciating that that part
of the show and Laura I really figuring out who
she is without Rory because you know, I'm learning that
your role as parent, Like I feel like I need
(27:33):
a parenting book, just a parent, you know, adult children.
And so that's a really interesting, you know phase that
the show that the show presents us with, but.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It is it is gosh, you know, it's such a
powerful then running through this is that everybody knows what's
going to happen. We know nobody's going to die, but
we do know that Rory is going to grow up.
(28:06):
We do know that she's going to go off to school.
We do know that she's going to graduate. We do
know that she's going to start her own life. And
isn't that really something to watch? That's separating from her
mom when they were so they started off so close
and then now that's drifting apart. That is that is
(28:28):
a powerful magnet for an audience. It really is.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
And it's real too, you know, it's so real, real
things that happened.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Well, I think it was really important. Laura. I stood firm.
She has to figure this out on her own, she
has to make these mistakes. And Luke was like, we
gotta go get her, We got to go kidnapper, We
got to talk to her right, and it's like she's
going to have to figure this out and she's going
to make some major mistakes while she does this, and
it has to happen. And then right before they get
back together. Oh wait, have you you haven't gotten there.
(28:58):
I don't want to. I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That's seasons. Please don't please. I haven't seen it yet.
I haven't seen it. That's okay, that's okay, all right,
So let's get into Rory's relationships. Okay, uh discuss you know,
the Deans, the Jesses, the Logans. Talk about those dynamics
(29:20):
and what they did or didn't do for Rory.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Well, I do want to say we were pretty anti
Logan in our book, and I think we both can
say that perhaps we were a little aggressive with that.
I feel like, uh, I sort of understand where that
comes from. Like Rory really experiences all the tropes of
romantic novels. She gets Dean, the jockslash motorcycle driver. He
(29:47):
was kind of he kind of his personality shifted a
bit by season two. Then she gets Jess, who's like
the bad boy but super smart and the only one
that could really understand what, you know, her level of
intelligence and she goes on to Logan, who's like this millionaire.
It's every trope and she gets to experience it. So
I do want to say, if anyone reads our book,
(30:09):
I'm a little less anti Logan, even though he was
my least favorite choice for Rory. And I think probably
we've talked about it a few times that perhaps we
were a little aggressive in our anti Logan sentiments in
the book. But yeah, I think I think when Rory
(30:29):
dates Jess and Luke's like, are we okay with this?
Like is this? Are you okay with it? Right? Because
you know, she really did not want that to happen,
and she says, I think it's about time for a
Jess and it's like, yes, that's you have to kind
of figure out who is your partner, right, Like who
is who are you compatible with? It's not always going
to be the same. And I think the parallels between
(30:52):
Dean and Luke and Christopher and Logan, like Dean he's
not the one for her, even though Luke is the
one for Laura, you know, and Jess brings something really
important for her. He's my favorite. I am totally team Jess,
but I don't think he's the best fit for her.
He is, he just doesn't give her what she needs.
(31:16):
I don't think Logan's the right fit. But clearly later
in life she you know, maybe continues that path.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So yeah, that's the acid test for me with Logan,
because I'm very fond of Logan and I think he's
super smart and I think he does give her what
he needs. But the thing is, the acid test is
ten years from now, when they're married, they have a
couple of kids, and he's running the empire, is Daddy's empire?
Is he going to cheat on her? Do you see
him cheating on her? And I kind of do?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Is Rory gonna cheat on him?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Pat?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I Meanyeah, She's a pretty complicated character, and it's yeah,
it's not necessarily sunshine and roses for everyone, Right, Rachel,
what you said in the book that you wanted her
to choose herself so she had a very.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well I was going to say that also that if
I had to choose, I'm definitely team Jess. But in
our book we end that chapter with the possibility of
a fourth option, and that is Marty.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
That's right, who's probably the best guy for her. He's
mister reliable, Yeah, Yeah, he's gonna make he's always going
to make a good living. He's always he's going to
get a teaching position at a smaller college, and he's
going to be the steady He's going to be steady, steady,
steady guy. He's going to love her, he's going to
worship her. It's going to be a great life for
(32:36):
those two. But she just doesn't get that spark from him,
you know. So yeah, yeah, I know, I've seen it
all that way, Yeah, seeing it all before. What was
your favorite part of the series.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I do just absolutely adore the female friendships, especially between
Lorle and I just I love Melissa McCarthy and I
just love what she did with that character. But I
just love that that was an aspect of the show.
It wasn't just focused on, you know, a romantic relationship.
But my favorite part did you say favorite moment or
(33:17):
favorite part.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Of the series or favorite part?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Okay, I love Kirk's short film that they play. I
think it's season two and it's at the Stars Hollow movie.
First of all, I love when Laura I thinks she's
going to be able to choose a film and she
she I think references Fletch and Arthur, which makes me
(33:43):
laugh every time, and Sophie's choice as well. But then
when we get to see Kirk's film that I just
thought the show is so smart. I just loved it.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Watch it frequently, right right right, Laura, one last idea here.
What was so distinct about the show compared to other
shows during that time two thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
I mean, I think even on the network that it
was on the very first the pilot episode, Laura la
I says to Rory, like I had DIBs on being
the beat to night right, Like you did not see
that on any shows that were airing on a family network.
And it was just a very real representation of how
(34:38):
people actually talk to each other, not these sappy moments.
And I think that was one of the comments that
Amy Sherman Palladino made, was like I didn't love the
close ups. I didn't want the emotional, like sad thing.
It was about making tragic figures funny. And I think
I watch it every time and I'm like, they are
They've got these tragic stories, all of them, and yet
(35:01):
it is so funny. So I think it was it
was I've never come across another show like it. Somebody
will say it's like Gilmore Girls, and I always watch
it and I'm like, no, more good. It's fine, but
it's not. Don't say it's like Gilmore Girls, because you
just can't do it. Even Marvelous Mismaans. I mean, that's
(35:21):
a totally different thing, right, It's it's it's it's just
it's sort of on its own. Son.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, I would just said to that too.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Just the quantity and the quality of the pop culture
references I think keeps people coming back to the show
because and there's someone a scholar that requoted in the
pop culture chapter that it's not so highbrow references where
it's like condescending to the audience. Some of the references
(35:53):
I know, and when I know them, I'm so proud
of myself and I feel really good. But then the
other references, I'm like, I'm going to go look that
up because Lorelai is super cool, and I want to know.
I want to read what she's reading or I want
to watch what she's watching. And I don't know how
Amy did that, Like, I don't know how she created
just very carefully these pop culture references that that keeps
(36:19):
people coming back I mean still when I rewatch it
now I I write down I need to look up
who you know, whoever whatever, look.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
At this movie.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
It cannot catch everything, which was very difficult when we
were writing this book, gather evidence.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Well, I can tell you that the type of couple
that goes on a vacation and they take a hundred
books with them, that's what they do on vacation. They
read no right, so but yeah, I agree with you.
That's that's that's the very special special sauce of the show.
I agree. Anyway, that's all the time we have. We
(37:02):
got to have you back on the show. It's a
fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Rachel
Davidson at Lara Stage. The book is Gilmore Girls of
Cultural History. Go out and get yourself a copy. Thank you,
ladies so much, and hopefully talk soon.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Hey everybody and Tuls again. Follow us on Instagram at
I Am All In podcast and email us at Gilmour
at iHeartRadio dot com.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Sugarman
Danielle Romo
Scott Patterson
Tara Soudbaksh
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