Paris Hilton ON: How to Stop Shame from Controlling Your Life & Turning Pain into Purpose

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When that happened. You know, I was fourteen years old,
and while he completely took advantage of his power as
a teacher at the school, and to be doing that
to a little girl was just so wrong.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
The best selling author on the post the number one
health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one
health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every
one of you that come back every week to become happier,
healthier and more healed. And I am so excited to
be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My
new book Eight Rules of Love is out and I
cannot wait to share it with you. I am so

(00:41):
so excited for you to read this book, for you
to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If
you haven't got it already, make sure you go to
eight Rules of Love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone
who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love.
So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up,
or struguggling with love, make sure you grab this book.

(01:02):
And I'd love to invite you to come and see
me for my global tour. Love Rules. Go to jshadytour
dot com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences,
and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now,
you know, my favorite thing in life is sitting down
with people who are able to be open, vulnerable, and

(01:23):
honest about their experiences in a way that we can
all learn from, in a way that we can all
feel inspired by and empowered by in our own lives.
And today's guest is someone who has a new memoir out. Now.
I've read this memoir cover to cover and I can
honestly tell you it is one of the most authentic, open,
genuine accounts that I feel allows someone to claim back

(01:45):
their narrative. And I recommend you read it as well.
And I'm going to tell you who I'm sitting down
with today. I have the fortune and honor of sitting
down with the one and only Paris Hilton CEO New
York Times bestselling author, philanthropist, DJ designer, rec coding artist, actress, host, model,
and influencer. Paris has defined and dominated pop culture, commanding

(02:07):
her position as one of the most recognizable faces on
the planet. I grew up watching her, so I know
very well Paris has masterfully harnessed her self made Spotlight
to architect a thriving entertainment and consumer products empire, which
spans an impressive range of businesses and verticals including TV, film, audio, music, publishing, licensing,

(02:29):
consumer products, brand partnerships, and so many more. In two
thousand and six, she created Paris Hilton Entertainment, a multi
billion dollar company consisting of forty five branded stores, nineteen
product lines, and twenty nine fragrances. That is a mask
over four billion dollars in revenue. In two thousand and one,

(02:49):
Variety declared Paris Hilton as a billion dollar entrepreneur in
recognition of a successful business and global brand. Paris's new
book is out now. It's called Paris the Memoir. I
literally just finished reading it, and today we have Paris
Hilton in the studio. Paris. Thank you for being.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Here, Thank you, thank you for the introduction.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Oh I meant it, and congratulations. You know, whenever I
sit down with someone who's written a memoir, and I
want everyone who's listening to really understand this, because I
think people see memoirs coming out, and they see books
coming out, and you just you kind of think, like, oh, yeah,
someone's just telling their story, and I think what I
found really fascinating about yours is I can't imagine how

(03:30):
hard it was to retell so many of these stories
and to relive so many of them. And I just
wanted to thank you for being able to go there
so many times, because I think even though in your
own words, where people may think that they don't relate
to you, I actually think that the stories you tell

(03:51):
are so much more relatable than people would expect. And
I just want to thank you for sharing themselves vulnerably.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Definitely very difficult and emotional, but extremely just therapeutic, just
putting it all out there, because so much that I've
held on to for so long, and so many things
that I've never told anyone, like things I've never even
wanted to say out loud because I didn't even want

(04:19):
to think that they were real. But it's just been
the most healing experience of my life.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
So you feel it's actually been he even though it's uneasy, Yes,
it's actually been something that has been therapeutic. It's been
healthier than unhealthy. Were there parts where you're like, oh gosh,
I just need a break from this.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Definitely, so many parts just because I've been through so
many traumatic experiences in my life, so just to have
to write them down and then doing the audiobook was
even that was even harder having to say things out loud,
especially in a room with three strangers I've never met
before and having to tell my story. But I'm I'm

(05:00):
so happy that I did my audio book as well,
because I think it's important for people to hear the
story from the person who wrote it.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, that's such a great point too, even having to
say it out loud for yourself. I think so many
of us we hold our truth so deeply buried inside
of us, and we might think it, but we never
actually speak it out loud. And that's such a great example.
I never thought about it like that. I think. The
other thing before we dive in, I wanted to mention
which I loved about your memoir is you were so

(05:28):
phenomenally observant. I almost feel like you had a hawkeye
where like you were able to you're able to like
find all these details. You're incredibly smart, like phenomenally like
a stewid, just spying these tiny details and patterns and
connections and the stories you tell and the history you
tell and I was. I really enjoyed it. I literally

(05:48):
felt like you were talking to me and I read it.
I didn't listen to it, and now I'll have to
listen to it, but I read it and I literally
felt like I was like this talking to you.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
So it's hard to do that, it's hard to off.
So I just want everyone to know who's going to
read it that you're really going to feel that. Where
I wanted to start was you talked a lot about
how and I think this is completely true. You said
most of us regret things that we didn't do, not
things that we did do. But you said in your twenties,

(06:18):
there are a few things you do regret. And I
was wondering whether regrets that you did do or didn't do,
and what were they for me?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
I feel that everything that I've done in life has
made me who I am, and I'm such a strong person,
and especially after writing this book and just seeing my
life story and everything that I've been through, I feel
that I don't have regrets in life because it's made
me the woman I am today.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
What made you say that that chapter that I think
you were just like, Ah, I've got a couple of regrets,
like even if there were silly ones like I'm guessing
there weren't any big.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Ones, relationships like I wish I didn't meet certain people
like I wish I didn't let certain people in my
life that shouldn't have been in my life, people with
bad intentions, because I've especially growing up, was just always
just so trusting of everyone and would let anyone in,
and there's so many people who just didn't deserve that.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Do you think you've got better at assessing and evaluating
energy and intentions around you because of all your bad
and negative experiences as you're saying, do you feel like
you've found a better radar? Or is it just something
that we all keep making mistakes on because it's so hard?
Because what I read is you want to be a
trusting person, you want to be a loving person, you

(07:33):
want to feel loved like we all do. But have
you found that you've got better at it? And if so,
what would you say you've got better at in terms
of sensing people's energy and intention.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I think in the beginning, I was just unexperienced in life,
so I really didn't know, and I had been through
so much in life, so I think I was just
after the trauma that experience as a teenager, I was
not I don't know, I think, in the right head
space to make decisions on being in a relationship. Like

(08:03):
the first person I started a relationship with, I was
not ready for that. And because of so many things
that happened to me, my heart just had this huge
wall around it for a very long time, and so
many things that happened that it made me not trust anyone.
And it wasn't until with my husband that I had

(08:25):
those walls come down and I actually let someone in.
But that took me a very long time, just from
so many life experiences that made me that way.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, and want to and I want to get to
that because I want to talk about a lot of
those things you just mentioned. But one line that really
took me, like kind of spell bound me in your
book was everyone was under this spell of love and money.
And when I read that, I was thinking about it
and I was wondering it kind of aligns with what
you're saying here, is that a lot of people with
negative intentions or unhealthy intentions are often under the spell

(08:59):
of love and money and that makes them do crazy things.
I mean, what were some of the craziest thing you
saw people do, maybe not even to you, but what
were some of those things that you saw when people
were bound by the spell of love and money? As
you say, what lens have you seen people go to.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I just have seen people change where money can just
take over their mind and who they are as a person,
and any values they have would just go to the side.
Just seeing people change, especially fame and money. I've just

(09:35):
seen so many people come into this town. Some people
come and go and the fame and the money get
to their heads so much, or they become a different
person and start thinking that they're better than others and
treating others beneath them. And that's something that I hate
more than anything, when someone is unkind to someone and
treats someone as if they're lower than them. That's like

(09:58):
one of the things that is one of my pet
p Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's interesting, right, Like you can't buy class, like fame
and money can't buy class. I've always felt that way
that yes, when you see people come into those things,
it doesn't change your taste or your habits or your values.
It kind of just amplifies who you already are. I
think I've heard many people say where it almost just
it almost exposes you for who you really are when

(10:21):
those things come your way. Y. Yes, I think you
said in the book, or you've said once before when
asked about self esteem, and I really want to talk
about the things that happen in your teenagers. But I
think self esteem is such a big topic in the
world today, especially because of social media, especially because of
so much self judgment and self criticism. And when you've
been asked before, you've mentioned like, you're good at pretending

(10:44):
sometimes or you have been good at pretending, And I
wonder when was it that you allowed yourself to stop
pretending and really start working on it, Like what did
that take? Because I feel like most of us it's
so much more easier to pretend and we hide behind it.
But I feel like you claim in your narrative back
in this book was almost saying, well, I'm not going

(11:06):
to let what's happened to me define my self esteem.
Would you say that's fair.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Or definitely everyone goes through that. And it took me
a while just after what I had went through, my
self esteem was just destroyed from the things that were
said to me and the abuse that I suffered when
I was a teenager at these trouble teen schools. I

(11:32):
don't even like to call them schools. And it wasn't
until my documentary back in twenty nineteen where I really
started doing this just whole path of self discovery and
really just talking about so many things I had never
told anyone. And then with now my book, that was

(11:54):
the second part of it, because I wasn't even ready
at that point to open up in ways I did.
But I've just grown so much in the past couple
of years and then getting married with my husband. It's
just my life has completely changed. And I'm going to
be always, forever so grateful to Alexander Dean, the director
of my documentary, because that film literally changed my life.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Making it change your life, yes.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
In so many ways. And now really just turning my
pain into a purpose and helping make a difference in
other people's lives has just been so rewarding. And I
feel that people understand me in ways that they didn't before.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, and it just.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Feels really good to finally be understood.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I want to tap into some of those events because
I think I actually think there's more people suffering in
silence than people who are vocal about the pain and
what they've been through. And I think that what I
meant earlier, which I said this to you offline, but
I want to repeat it here on the show that

(12:59):
I think a lot of people, for a lot of
part of your life, see parts of your life as unrelatable.
But then when you open up about these things in
the book, I actually think I have a lot of
friends and especially women that I know that have been
through similar things that have never opened up and have
held it tight or opened up to a couple of people.
And so I'm hoping that with you opening up in

(13:21):
this way, a lot of people will look at that
and go, well, maybe I need to talk to someone,
or maybe I can reach out. So I wanted to
talk about some of them. I mean, the first one
that comes up is you have your teacher, who you
call mister Abercrombie, who's like manipulating you and grooming you
and making you think in a certain way. And it's
really interesting because our teenage years are these years where

(13:42):
like we wait to be liked, to feel likable, or
we wait for someone to desire us to feel desirable,
And I think you're in like eighth grade. Yes, and
he's preparing you in this way, and then you know,
he takes you in his car one night and he
kisses you and pulls you into me, and like, you know,
it's completely against your will. You don't know what's going on.
At the same time, it's nice to be like wanted

(14:04):
and you talk about that before. I can't imagine that
being someone's like, you know, first kiss to that degree,
and like you talk about how like because your parents
kind of caught you, and of course the book goes
into much more depth. I'm just synthesizing it for the question.
But you didn't want to talk about it with them,
and they didn't talk about it with you, Like what

(14:24):
does it feel like when you hold on to uncomfortable things?
What does that feel like? And then what gave you
the courage to actually say I need to talk about this.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
For me, that's just how my family was, like we
didn't like to talk about things. And when that happened,
you know, I was fourteen years old and he completely
took advantage of his power, as you know, a teacher
at the school, and to be doing that to a

(15:01):
little girl was just so wrong. And I'm so glad
that my parents ended up driving out the driveway because
who knows what he would have tried to do. And
after that happened, I just didn't ever talk about with
my family up until a few weeks ago, and I
asked my mom and I said, that night that you

(15:23):
caught me in the car and you were chasing me
in the car and everything, did you know who that was?
And she said no. I was like, oh, I always
thought my whole since I was a teenager, I thought
that she knew that it was that, and she had
no idea until now. She just thought it was some
teenage boy. Wow, up to like a couple of up

(15:44):
until a couple of weeks ago when she read my book.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And what was her reaction to that? Mean in shock?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
She just couldn't believe it. She was in shock of
so many things in the book. My sister and her
we just spoke about it, like a few weeks ago,
and they were both just crying and saying, I can't
believe it. You didn't tell us any of this, Like
I wish you could have came to us, but it's
just it's hard to talk about things, and especially when

(16:13):
you're raised in that way. Where you don't really talk
about anything that's hard. It's been difficult, but I'm so
glad that I finally got the courage to do it,
and I know that my story is really important. And
I wish that I had this book back when I
was a teenager, because I would have definitely not felt

(16:35):
so alone and misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I it's really interesting, isn't it. Family,
Like we feel so close to we all feel and
I think you do a I think you really healthily
talk about how like no one's family is perfect, but
you love your family. But then there's complex and that's
that's just I think a lot of us have that
experience where it's like our families would say the same thing,
like why didn't you tell me? But then at this

(17:00):
same time, it's like, well, if I told you, you
may not have reacted in a way that was helpful.
Did do you feel like did do you feel like
when your mom read that, she like felt some guilt
or like, oh how did she carry that?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Like she definitely felt guilty. I think as a kid,
you you're scared, like, oh, I'm going to get in trouble.
And I think that's something that shame is such a powerful,
powerful thing, and that's a really important message in my
book that the shame shouldn't be on you, it should
be on the person that hurt you. And I felt

(17:34):
like I just held on to so much shame my
whole life because of other people hurting me, and it
feels I think other people who've been through the same
thing need to hear that as well.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
That is so powerful. I just want everyone who's listening
or watching right now to go back and listen to that,
because that what you just said is so true. I'm
going to try and repeat what Parish just said so
beautifully that when someone else dumps something to you, the
shame should not actually be something you have to feel
an experience, it's actually on them. And yeah, I was
noticing that. I actually was when I was making notes.

(18:07):
It was like, shame and embarrassment are these constant themes
in the book. And it's so interesting because all of
us in our lives, we always feel embarrassed for someone else.
What will my parents think of what I did? Or
I feel so ashamed of myself for what someone did
to me, when actually what you just said is they
should be feeling shameful of what they did, but like

(18:30):
mister Abercrombie that day in the car just drops you
off and runs away because they want to just run
away from that. And you start to realize, actually that
person is feeling so much shame that they're trying to
they actually lie to themselves about it in order to
escape it. But I love that. I hope that everyone
who's listening just feels freed by recognizing that that the

(18:50):
shame you're feeling is actually for the person who hurt
you to feel. And what really hit me was also
just again talking about vocalizing things. You said it took
you so long to even use the word pedophile because
you didn't want to explain to us why it was
important to use the word. But why it took you long, I.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Think that I had just been so manipulated by him,
and I didn't want to think of myself as a victim.
But now as an adult, I look back on that
and think of when I have a daughter one day
and she's a teenager, and if someone had tried to
do something like that to her, I couldn't even imagine,

(19:30):
and it just angers me. And I never had told
anyone that story. But I know it's an important story
because I know that's something that happens every day to people.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
I literally read your book as if I was reading
you about my daughter, Like that's how I was like,
And I don't have a daughter, but I was I
have a younger sister who've always been very protective of
and to me, when I was reading your book, that's
literally the lens. What you just said is how I
read the book, where I was just like, if this
happened in my like my younger daughter or younger child,
even son, like whoever it is, I can't imagine how

(20:03):
upset I'd feel if I didn't keep that door open
for them. And I just want to you know, if
there's any parents listening as well, I just hope that
this inspires you to really keep that door open with
your kids, because it's so easy to judge them, and
it's so easy to make it out like you made
every right decision and your kids are making bad decisions.
But I promise you you'll be so much happier if

(20:25):
the communication lines are always open. I mean, speaking of
communication with parents, you said there were some things that
were difficult for your mom to moment to discuss Obviously
this was one of them, Like what were the other
things that you felt your mom really like was just
shocked by and just felt like she wished you could
have spoken to her about it.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
My mom had me when she was nineteen, so she
was a kid herself, and that generation, like I think
a lot of people really didn't talk about their feelings,
Like no one was talking about mental health. It was
just I think that generation is just how they were raised.
So I could understand why she was that way. And

(21:08):
now ever since she's read my book and watched my
documentary and has learned so much from me in that way,
we've just never been closer. So it's been a really
healing experience for both of us as well.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I hope that encourages anyone who's felt like
that for a long time, because, like you're saying, most
of us are not going to tell our parents what
we're doing when we're doing it. Like I was the same,
I had so many secrets from my parents, Like my
parents never knew about any of the girlfriends I had.
My parents never knew about anything that I was up
to because I was scared of them being mad at
me and upset with me because the line in my

(21:45):
house was focus on your education, don't worry about girlfriends.
And so as a young boy, all you care about
is having girlfriends. Yeah, And I was like, well, as
long as I can get good grades, I'm just going
to carry on doing all this other stuff. And it's
interesting because I feel like even as we get older,
we're still scared of our parents, right, Like it's almost
like it never stops. And so it's always so strange,

(22:05):
Like and my wife talking about this all the time,
like she talks about her like she's still scared sometimes
to tell her parents about what she's up to or whatever.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I always feel like a teenager of my parents. I
don't know why, it's just how it is.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, And all of us feel that way. And there's
this there's it's so important that I think we get
the courage even as adults, because a lot of us
are like, oh, that was the past, it doesn't matter,
But actually it will. It will actually change the relationship
you have with your parents when when you can actually
open up the lines of trust. On the flip side,
you have the beautiful relation with ship with your grandma,
like that comes across in the books so like strongly

(22:39):
and beautifully, and when you speak about her, I feel
like it just comes out the page and it's beaming,
and like your your appreciation and your admiration for her
is just this amazing thing. What would you say is
a lesson that you think has stayed with you that
she taught you that is like that you still carry
with you every day, Like what would you say that
would be if you had a one?

Speaker 1 (23:01):
She was just a force of nature, like we just
walk in a room and lighted up and always made
me feel so confident. And I remember when I was
a little girl, she told me that she went to
a psychic and the psychic said, one day, your granddaughter
is going to be one of the most famous and

(23:21):
most photographed women in the world. And she said, I
know that's going to happen one day, and I just
want you to always remain the same sweet, founder earth
girl that you are with such a big heart and
so kind and never let that get to your head.
And that was something that I always kept close to
my heart, and nothing ever changed, no matter what happened

(23:44):
in my life. I always remain the same sweet person.
And I think that's so important to be kind and
that's something that she really instilled in me my whole life.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I mean, that sounds like a great thing everyone should
tell their kids. I love all of that because it's
almost like I believe in you. I know, oh, you're
going to be successful, but don't forget where you came from,
who you are and how you treat people like that's
what's what's foundational and really important. And yeah, it's it's
we all need that figure in our lives, like whether

(24:14):
it's a grandparent or uncle or aren't a friend who
reminds us of who we need to continue to be
because it's so easy to get distracted. But what I
think is really interesting is how you kept that mindset
when so you go and I know you don't like
calling it a school, and I agree from your description
of the CEDU right see do se do you?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah? One of them provoking in school, Yeah, cascade in ascent.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah. So like looking at all of these facilities, even
when they're taking you there, it almost feels like you're
being kidnapped. You have handcuffs walking through an airport when
you're not a convict or you know you haven't done
something illegal. And then it's even like when they explain it,
they're like, we're going to this place to fix you,

(24:59):
and you your reaction is that there's nothing wrong to fix,
Like what do you fix? What I'm fascinated was like,
how did you hold on to the idea that there
was nothing to fix when everything around you is programming
you to believe that you're broken, you're wrong, and you're

(25:21):
needing fixing, Like how do you not take that all in?

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I knew that I didn't deserve to be there, and
you know, I wasn't a bad kid. I live a
very strict life, very sheltered. Then I moved to New
York City, started sneaking out, getting bad grades, and my
parents talked to a therapist who recommended that I go

(25:46):
to these emotional growth boarding schools. And they had no idea.
They just thought it was a normal boarding school. And
the way they take kids to these places is they
have two men come into your room in the middle
of the night and say do you want to go
the easy way or the hard way? And literally hold
up handcuffs. And this is how children are brought to

(26:07):
these places, and it's extremely traumatizing. That's something that I
had severe nightmares for two decades. It wasn't until my
documentary and all the advocacy work that I've been doing
that those nightmares have finally went away. But for me,
I just always thought to myself, I know that I'm

(26:31):
a good person. I don't deserve to be in here,
and that was the only thing that kept me going
was who I was going to become and what I
wanted to be when I got out of there.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Did you see other people break down? Like, did you
see other people around you? Just like, because I find
that to be one of the hardest things, where if
you're being told you're broken, if you're being told you're wrong,
if you're being told you're wrong in you know, letting
your parents down, and by the way, you're doing very
normal things at this point, Like there's like, you know,
like I think, sneaking out, you know, getting getting bad grades,

(27:07):
getting in trouble is actually pretty normal for any teenage kid.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
And I had attention deficit disorder, which no one knew
because no one was talking about that either. So that's
the reason I couldn't pay attention in school and was
getting bad grades, and no one knew why. They just
thought that I was purposely trying to not pay attention,
but I just really couldn't focus.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's incredible to think that. And this,
I think this is what's coming out so much today
where people who weren't able to focus at school because
of ADHD or other challenges that they have are doing
phenomenally well in business, yes, and in life. And it's
like you start to recognize that there isn't this correlation
between It's not like, oh, if you did got good grades,

(27:49):
you had a great career or great profession. It could
very well be the opposite. How do you find you've
been able to what's different about business than school? I
guess that you've been so passionate about and been so
prolific at that you feel is different about how you
were approach school.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I feel my ADHD. I consider it my superpower. And
I think that's why in business and everything that I've done,
I've always been very future thinking and thinking outside of
the box and being a risk taker and someone who
is an innovator and pioneer. And I really attribute that

(28:29):
to my superpower.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, but how do you how do you I guess
not how does not always being able to force yourself
to focus actually become a superpower in business like that,
How does that work?

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Thinking in a different way and with ADHD, my doctor,
doctor Hollowa, says that it's like having the brain of
like a Ferrari with bicycle breaks, so you're kind of
just always moving really fast and thinking really fast. And
I think that's why in business I've done so many

(29:05):
things first because I just I don't know, just took
a risk and I'm impulsive.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, and that can And that's interesting, isn't it, Because
it's almost like in school, everything has to have a
process and a method and a approach, where sometimes in
business actually trying something out and being impulsive or making
an intuitive decision can actually work out, whereas being intuitive
school is not valued a tall.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, I think I just found it to be boring. Besides,
I loved art class, the music class, but math was
not my favorite.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah. Yeah. My favorite subjects at school were art in design, philosophy,
and I enjoyed economics because of how it was taught,
but art in design and philosophy were by far my
favorite subjects at school. And it's really interesting because when
I was at school, all I'd ever hear is jade.
Those are dumb subjects to focus on. Don't focus on
those subjects going to get you a job. And now

(30:01):
when I look at my life, I feel like my
entire life is iron design, philosophy and economics like that.
That's literally it. And so it's interesting how we all
have strengths that we miss out on. I wanted to
roll back a few years because the experience that you
describe about meeting the guy in the mall and then
it's almost like you go through this experience and you

(30:23):
wake up that you wake up and you're like, you
know what's happened, But again it's another moment where you
don't want to tell anyone about what's happened. And I
just feel every time I was reading your book and
I've read these points, it was like a punch in
the gut for me. I was just like, I can't
believe it that something keeps happening that is not something

(30:46):
that you're inviting or encouraging, and it's someone taking advantage.
It's someone going far beyond any point of consent, and
again you're having to hold on to it. Can you
walk us through that and just talk again about what
it feels like to have to hold onto something the
second time around, especially when this is like from your
first kiss to your first sexual experience, how does that

(31:09):
keep accelerating internally? Like what's going on internally?

Speaker 1 (31:15):
That was another thing in my book that I had
never told anyone like after that happened, I had never
said it out loud again and just tried to forget it.
And my friend and I were at the mall when
I was fifteen and a half, yeah, and we had
met these two older guys that we had seen like

(31:36):
every weekend there and they got our numbers and invited
us over. And I had never drank alcohol in my
life before, and he had these wine berry coolers, the
wine coolers, and kept telling me to drink it and
pressuring me, and I kept saying no, and then it
was like it's open, just do it. So I had

(31:57):
had a couple of SIPs and then it was roofied
and knocked out and woke up with him on top
of me and whispering, you're dreaming, You're dreaming. And that
was just terrifying to go through and something that I

(32:19):
felt ashamed for when again, that was not my fault.
This was someone who took advantage of a young girl.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
And how did it feel like a second time thinking
I can't tell anyone again. I guess my question is,
with shame and embarrassment keeps cycling in this way, do
you feel like you literally held onto that shame and
embarrassment until the duck in the book? Like would you
say you've carried it for that long? And what does
that feel like? Is it festus?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Extremely isolating? Just feel alone that no one knows, but
it's something that you're holding onto. And yeah, it was
something that I held on to until I wrote it
in my book because I know that has happened to
so many other people. And ever since I've released my book,
so many people have written me letters and contacted me

(33:10):
on social media or met my book signings that have
went through the same experience. And they were all thanking
me for them not feeling alone and them being able
to talk about it for the first time and hold
the people accountable for what they did to them.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
And why do you think we do that? Why do
you think we don't keep those people accountable? But we
see it as our mistake or our like you know,
you walk away thinking, oh, I'm such an idiot, I'm
so stupid. I shouldn't have done that. Why do you
think that is? Why is it that we just reflected
back onto ourselves seeing as you've gone through things like that.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
I don't know why we do that. I wish I
knew why, But I think when people can talk about
things like this, and it makes others feel safe to
be able to talk about it as well. And that's
something that I'm working on every day.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
All of this.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
This is like I've been healing, but there's so much
there and I've now put it out to the whole world,
and it's just it's been hard just talking about it
and just thinking about it. But again, I know it's
important for others to hear.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
We're so quick to judge others. So when we hear
about these things, if it's never happened to us, we
always think, oh, but they could have avoided it. And
then when it happens to you, you reflect that judgment
onto yourself and you think, oh, I could have avoided it.
And so it's almost like the more we judge others,
and we're quick to judge others, we actually judge ourselves more.

(34:49):
And the more we judge ourselves more, the more we
are judging others and it kind of becomes this vicious
cycle where we judge ourselves, we self sabotage, we self criticize.
Don't we judge others, We criticize them, we point fingers,
and it just keeps going around. And it's almost like,
if we gave ourselves more grace, we'd give others more grace.
And if we give others more grace, we'd give ourselves

(35:09):
more grace. And I do think that when people tell
their stories, like I can't relate or say I've gone
through anything that you've gone through, but hearing your story
and I'm sure for the people who have been victims
and have gone through these things, I'm hoping that it
creates a sense of empathy and compassion and grace for everyone,

(35:30):
because I think the reason we don't tell everyone is
because we think that they somehow think it was our fault.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Would you judge you?

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah? And have you felt this time when you've opened
up through your book, do you still feel that there's
been judgment back? Because I know in the past, when
things have happened, there's been a sense of, like you've
talked about before, like the idea of when you were
when you're seen as a sex symbol. It's like, you like,
I like the symbol part because that's like iconic, But
it's like when people start labeling you, would you say

(35:59):
that this time when you're sharing the book, you felt
that people have really received it well through the book
as opposed to other ways, or do you still find
that there's still some judgment that's always going to be there.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
The reaction to the book has just been incredible, just overwhelming,
with so much love and support and just the things
that people have said to me at the book signings
and every single interview and people are just it just
feels amazing to finally be understood and have people respect

(36:34):
me and have empathy and kindness. And I feel because
I played a character for so long, people had no
idea and now they know that there's so much more
to me, and that's been incredible. If I haven't felt
any negative energy at all, So that's just been the

(36:58):
best feeling ever.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
That makes me sense happy. I'm so happy to hear that. Honestly, congratulations.
You deserve that, and little Paris deserves that too, And
you know, I'm so happy to hear that because I
think being understood is the hardest thing, and especially being
understood for the trauma that's unseen. Like everyone sees the
page six, or sees the front cover, or sees whatever,

(37:20):
but no one really really sees the inner child that
actually went through all of this, because that's the part
of you that the characters covering. The character's not covering
the truth. It's covering the inner child that's experiencing all
of this and is not mature enough and not smart
enough and not ready enough to endure so much suffering,

(37:43):
in so much pain. Does you in a child feel
safer now? Does it? Or how do you think about
your in a child with the healing work that you're doing.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Finally feel safe just with everything. My husband is just
so incredible, having my little baby boy. I just feel
that my life, thank you, complete Finally, i just feel
that I've built a real life and I'm just so
proud of everything that I've accomplished. And just reading my story,

(38:12):
I'm a survivor and I'm a badass.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I love that. That's I mean, it's you definitely are
you definitely are. It's but and you see it. You know,
it's like it's challenging because you know there's so many
people that the media kind of naturally picks on in
that way. And sometimes it's good for business, and sometimes
it makes sense for the character, and but there's always

(38:38):
more going on. And I feel like you and you know,
even someone who's your close friend, like Britney Spears as well,
like have both had the kind of tabloid clickbait articles,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think you
went to a wedding last year too, and you've you've
stayed strong even though sometimes the media pits you against
each other or does that? How have you managed? Because

(38:59):
I feel like this something really interesting that's happened in culture.
When you started influencing, using that word from your book,
there was a lot of like even even for actors
back in the day and musicians. What I've heard is
it was like, well, you can you are the only influencer,
and everyone else can't be. If they come up, then
you're going to go down. I had a lot of

(39:19):
actors tell me that what they were told is you
have to be the number one black actor and if
you're friends with the other black actor, then you can't
be friends because people are going to choose one of you,
and I feel like that happens in culture and race,
it happens in careers, it happens in industries. How did
you manage to keep a real friendship with Brittany during
a time when all of this is happening to both

(39:40):
of you at the same time, Like, how do you
keep a genuine relationship at that level where you're both
these these huge tableau targets for.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Me because we understand each other and she's one of
the kindest, most down to earth people and is just
so lovely. I think it's important when women support each
other because we're all in this together. And I think
the two thousands were definitely about trying to pit women

(40:11):
against each other in the media, and they were so
cruel to us and targeted us, and it was really
difficult to have to deal with just the constant pressure
from the media and people inventing stories and paparazzi chasing
and it was just really crazy time. But it's important

(40:35):
One then you can have friends around you that can
understand that because they go through the similar experiences.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, I think that's the hardest part. Right There's only
like one percent of people who are having any given
experience and that applies across the board and it's like,
if you're not friends with people who are going through
the same thing and have the cards to open up
to each other, you can feel so alone. And it's
amazing that you've been able to maintain that because it
almost feels like as more rumors get told, you're more scared.

(41:04):
Is that? Would you say that's fair? Do you feel
as more comes out about you that's not true? You
become more fearful of how people view you. I think in
the book you talk about one point like every room
I go into, I know what people have seen or
what they know. I guess my question is, how has
that stopped you from just closing off and hiding and
actually going, well, no, I'm still going to be who
I want to be, because I can imagine that when

(41:27):
you walk in already feeling like you have a big
sign on your forehead. It's hard to walk into new places,
but you keep doing it with business. You keep walking
in boardrooms, you keep walking into new environments, like how
have you found that strength just.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
From being in this business for so long? And also
what I went through as a teenager at these schools
just made me I think prepared me for Hollywood in
a way, because I had just been through such abuse
that literally I could take anything. You build a tough
skin when you're constantly around this.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
For sure. The abuse in the schools was worse.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yes, So it definitely prepared me for anything.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Are you still friends with anyone who went to the
schools that you kind of stayed connected with and have
they kind of found themselves again or.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
I reconnected with some of the people that I was
there with. And it's just been amazing just to come
together and tell our stories and just have made so
much impact. And now I've changed laws in nine states
and now going back to Washington, d c. In two

(42:37):
weeks to introduce our new bill to push for federal legislation.
So it's just been really empowering just to meet with
people that had been through the same thing as me
and who knew me before all of this, and now
to really have used our voices and are now saving

(42:58):
children's lives.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
So glad that we're talking about this on purpose, because
I feel like that is such a journey of pain
into purpose. And I think you said it in your
book that actually when you started helping and doing this
work and not just doing this work of trying to
help the people who went there, but trying to change
laws so that people never end up there in the

(43:20):
first place. Like that approach is when you actually started
to feel like you were healing, When you're actually not
just trying to heal yourself, but when you're trying to
help others, That's when you really felt it. Can you
walk us through how hard it is to try and
push forward a new bill or change legislation in nine states? Like?

(43:41):
Can you walk us through like just how technically challenging
that is and what you come up against. Because I
don't think we always hear these announcements, but I don't
think people know what goes into that.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
This is every day of my life. I'm working. I
have Rebecca Mellendrows, my head of Impact at eleven eleven Media,
and we are constantly speaking with senators, traveling, going and
telling my story. I've been back and forth to DC
and this is a multi billion dollar industry.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So there's there's schools, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
There's thousands of these schools. There's hundreds of children that
have died in these places, just the reports we have
of abuse, and there's no regulations and it's just a
lot having to go in there and really push for
this because people don't understand, they don't know what's happening
behind closed doors, and since it's such a profitable industry,

(44:44):
it's also difficult because there's so many people that are
trying to fight us against it. But when I actually
go there and speak to them face to face and
they hear the stories of myself and the other survivors
that I bring with me, that's when they understand what
what's happening. And people know that that's happening and they
can't just ignore it. So everyone that we've been speaking to,

(45:09):
when they hear and we actually go there, that's when
it really makes a difference. And I think that's why
we've been so impactful.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
What do you say to survivors of the schools or
even people that you mean, who've been through abuse? Like
what do you How can a friend help someone a
friend in their life who's gone through some sort of abuse,
Like how do you be a good friend to that?
Because I can imagine that a lot of people are

(45:39):
listening right now, going I don't want to say to
my friends because I've never been through it, I don't
know how to connect what's helpful.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
It's just helpful to know that they can tell you
and they'll be there for them and not judge them
and let them know it's not their fault and just
being able to talk about it and having a safe
space where you can make them feel supported and just

(46:08):
know that you're there for them and whatever they need.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
And what do you think like really creates that safe space?
Because I feel for so many people, we think we're
so close to so many people, but you almost figure
out that you're not. There's only a few people you
can and then you even name some of your closest
friends who've kind of been through the same stuff. But like,
what really defines a safe space for you? You know
what is You've talked about the relationship with you have

(46:31):
with car to your husband and the space you have
right now, But what has made it safer? Like what's
actually created that environment differently now than you've ever.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Had because I have people around me that I can trust,
And it's definitely about knowing that when you say something
that people are not going to go and repeat it.
So that's something that I've just learned over the years.
Even before where I would test people in my life

(47:02):
and tell them some fake rumor and then just see
if it would end up in page six or in
the media. And that was a big test back in
the day that I would do with people, and a
lot of people failed that test. And now I don't
have anyone around me that I would even have to
worry about that with. And that's something that's really important
to me, is trust, because trust and loyalty is priceless

(47:25):
to me.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
That's such a great test. Yeah, that's such a great
that's such a great test. Yeah, if anyone's wondering if
you have a real friend, tell them a fake rumor
about yourself and see see if it comes back to
you exactly. That's a wow. What was the fakest thing
you ever said? Do you remember what was like a
rumor that I don't think that the ones you push
the boundaries on.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I don't even remember. Maybe just like oh, there was
like a guy or something like I have no idea
to something stupid, and then it would end up and
I would be like, oh.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Man, how does it feel? Because at one point in
your book, I think you know, you talk about this
reputation that you developed in the media of like Oh,
she sleeps around, she's always with lots of men. And
then it's like and you're like, well, that just wasn't
the case. Was there a part of you that it
was just that was part of the character and it worked,

(48:14):
or was there a part of you that just felt, no,
that's not true. I want people to know, like, how
did you process that?

Speaker 1 (48:20):
I just knew that it wasn't true. And in the media,
anytime I was seen with someone at a party or whatever,
people would just assume that that was the case, but
no one had any idea what I had went through
that had made me really fearful, Like even though I
was known as the sex symbol, I didn't feel that
way inside at all, and I was so scared to

(48:43):
let people in. That's why a lot of my relationships
didn't work, because I was like a teenager in a
way where I only would want to kiss and make
out and that was it, And a lot of people
wouldn't be able for themselves to stay loyal because all
I would do is kissed, and they wanted more. And
then the media, they just assumed that it was a

(49:06):
lot more wilder than it really was, because in reality,
it was actually quite innocent.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, And did you just accept that you just realized
you couldn't change that narrative and it was going to
be where it was going to be. Or was it
something you didn't pay attention to.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I just tried just to not pay attention to things.
I just feel that the media just always was constantly
inventing rumors about me, and I just felt like a
target a lot of the times because I felt that
it was myself and then a certain group of girls
that they would do this too.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
What I find the most amazing thing is even in
this interview, so many times you've said I'm in a
better place now, I'm in a and I know you're
saying there's still healing. I know you're not saying it's
figured out and it's perfect. I don't think that's what
you're saying. But what I'm hearing is like, you know,
I've worked through things, have found a good p like
I'm in a healthy space. I think the hardest hardest

(50:04):
thing after going through all of these things from an
outside perspective, is how do you trust another man? Like right?
Like It's like you've had all these men who've abused you,
mistreated you, who've exploited you with the sex tape, Who've
used your image and ways without even ever consulting or
any sort of consent and completely you know so and

(50:26):
it's like you've gone through all of this, How do
you even think about dating someone letter and marrying someone
for real? Like? Because I feel like that requires so
much of yourself. And although you're sitting here obviously you
know you're a new mom and like, and I'm so happy,
but I can only imagine that I've had and I've
had people, by the way, ask me this question when

(50:47):
I'm on tour, where they'll say to me, Jay, I've
just been so abused or misused or mistreated. How do
I love again? How do I trust again? How have
you continued to believe in real love and real trust
and loyal when you've seen the complete opposite your whole life?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
It was extremely difficult, just not being able to let
anyone in for so long, and with Carter, I wasn't
even looking for love at this point. This was back
in twenty nineteen. I went home to the Hamptons for
Thanksgiving and I saw Carter that day at Thanksgiving lunch,

(51:26):
and he was just so sweet and kind of his mom,
and it was just so different than all the other guys.
And he's Midwestern boy from a town of eight hundred people,
and he's just like this sweet, nerdy, like cute, like

(51:46):
just kind person who's doesn't care about fame or any
of this. He's just so the opposite of everyone that
I've ever known and just has this incredible family values
and it's just this angel like I really believe that
my grandmother and his dad are up in heaven and

(52:06):
planned for us to meet because right away it was
just so different and this like electricity that I had
never felt, and it was literally like we were inseparable
right away. We moved in with each other and that
just then the world shut down in March, so then

(52:27):
we were really together. Before that, I'd been on the
road and traveling over two hundred and fifty days out
of the year for two decades, so I never really
had time to get to know someone because I was
always on a plane. So just having to be in
one place and not the world shutting down and it
was just me and him together. And I feel like
times during COVID, like one year of that is like

(52:51):
seven years of like my normal life, because my life
is usually so busy with everything I'm doing, so all
of that has just been like, I don't know, it's
just been so different than any other relationship where I
just felt like, this is my destiny.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
That's beautiful, congratulations, So happy to hear that. I can
see you come to life and be like, there's a
there's a there's a glow when you're talking about car,
which is which is really beautiful to see. But how
how and when did you start feeling comfortable with talking
to him about what had gone on? Because I'm guessing

(53:30):
that was a safe space, probably the first time you'd
felt it from someone you were close to. What was
that process like, because I can imagine it's also really
scary to be like, I found a really great thing.
Now I'm going to share what my real trauma is
and challenges is and how does this affect like well
that person stay, well they run away? These are like
the real things real people think about. How did you

(53:51):
get how did you start sharing what you'd been through?
And when did you start feeling like you wanted to
do that?

Speaker 1 (53:58):
It was just I feel that is everything. And I
had just finished filming my documentary when we started dating,
so I was already going through this whole just like
emotional journey. And then I showed him my documentary and
he was the first person I had showed it to,

(54:18):
so he learned so much about me from that, and
then he just started asking me so many questions, And
since I had already opened about it in the film,
I felt I feel like that really prepared me for
being able to speak about it in real life. People.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Do you remember an interesting question he asked you about
your experience that you felt like really brought you both
closer together? Like was there something specific that he asked
about that when you and what was your answer? And
one that's something that brought you closer together than you
were before that.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, I think it was just the way he was.
He just actually listened and he started crying during certain
parts of our conversations. He felt just so emotional for
what I had went through, and just to see someone
cares that much really just made me trust him even more,

(55:12):
just to know that he cared so much to even
I don't know, have a conversation like that, because I
feel like I had never really had such a deep
conversation with someone before.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
You said that you don't cry about a lot of
this much anymore. But when did you really allow yourself
to cry about it and feel it through. When was
that opportunity you gave yourself.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
A lot of times I would cry just after going
through things in life and just feeling so alone, just
coming home at the end of the night and having
no one to talk to about it. Just a lot
of times in my life, and especially after my documentary,

(56:01):
in writing my book, just rereading all of that has
just been so emotional just to have to feel it all.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah. Yeah, you even spoke about, you know, hiding your
pregnancy from your family, and that was something that you
and your you know, you and car are kind of
kept to yourself. And I was when I when I
first learned about that, I was like, that was so
interesting to me because it seems like, in one sense,
your life since you were young has been so public
and so broadcasted and so overly commented upon and been

(56:35):
out there and then almost you're having this really precious, personal,
beautiful moment. And my interpretation was that it was a
protection of like, no, this needs to be personal and
private and sacred and special. It's what is that What
was going through your mind of why you wanted it
to be so private, Like, what, how did that decision
come about where it's like, no, well, actually, this is

(56:58):
the one thing that is to be that way.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I just felt that my life has been so public
for over two decades of being in this whole industry,
and with my baby, I just felt that this was
something that I didn't want all the outside opinions from
the world or just the online trolls or anyone talking

(57:21):
about my son until he was here in this world
and healthy and safe, and I just I don't know.
I just feel like I wanted to keep that for me,
so no one knew about it till he was literally
a week old.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Wow, what's the pleasure in public broadcast and what's the
sweetness in private? Sacred personal experience? Talked to me about
the difference of the joy you get from like being
in media and being on stage, being in front and center,
and then what's the difference in how it feels when

(57:59):
you get to have a special experience like that. I
just want everyone to hear because I think those are
two things we crave and chase.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
For me, I love to make other people happy and
feel that energy and love, and it's just an amazing feeling.
But then to be with my baby boy and just
have him laying on my chest and looking up at

(58:29):
me and I with his innocent eyes and this little, sweet,
precious angel, it is just my world. So there are
two different feelings, like one is just exciting, but then
the other one is actually just true, real love. And
I feel that for so long I always considered all

(58:52):
of that type of attention love, But now I know
what real love truly is.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Wow. Yeah that hit, Yeah that hit whenever I to
take that away that we often think of attention as love.
We think of validation is love. We think of compliments
as love, but love actually isn't any of that. Those
are just almost like fake currency or fake money. And yeah,

(59:24):
real love is what you're experiencing now with your baby
boy and with Carter and with yourself at the deepest level.
Like do you feel that we hear these words like
self love and self care all the time now they're
all over the world, But how do you define self
love now? Like do you feel like this is the
first time in your life that you've allowed yourself to
love yourself? Or have you loved yourself throughout all of

(59:47):
this so the.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
First time I've gotten to know myself, so therefore I
could really love myself because I felt that for so
long I was just very lost and I had been
through so much that I was just living such this
fast paced life that I never even had time to

(01:00:08):
think about anything. And I think I purposely made myself
so busy that I wouldn't have time to think about
anything that bad I had went through in my life.
And now just I've gotten getting to know myself and
just feel so many different feelings. Now I truly can

(01:00:30):
love and know every part of.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Me absolutely absolutely. How are you hoping to be as
a mother now? Like having you know, you've had an
interesting relationship with your own family, which you talk about
in the book so much. I think we all have
complex relationships with our own parents and family, and we
love them, we appreciate them, and then there's certain decisions,
there's a you know you talk about how like you

(01:00:55):
know at one point you wish that your parents would
just say sorry, we did that, but then you've learned
to understand that they may never get there. How does that?
How have you become okay with that I will get
to the mother and bub But how have you become
okay with that? Because I think for a lot of
people that's the hardest thing, where it's like, my parents
were wrong, they made a mistake, they should be sorry,
they should be accountable. But you're actually saying I do
feel all those ways, but at the same time, I

(01:01:17):
actually feel like that's okay. That's their journey and that's
their story, and I'm okay with that. How do you
because that's a real nuance, subtle place to be. How
do you become okay with that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
For me, just knowing everything I know now, I think
for when I was a teenager and I was sent away,
I was so just sad and I was angry. But
now being an adult and just doing all my research
and now finding out that these schools are completely manipulative

(01:01:53):
and they lie to the families and have all this
false advertising and fake brochures and just it's such an
evil industry. And my parents had no idea and they
were tricked And that's something that I realize now, and

(01:02:19):
so I can't be angry at them because they were
just trying to do what they thought was right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, that requires a lot of maturity, though, Like that
requires a lot of looking at the context, because I
find like, when you don't have that context, it's so
easy to be in conflict with someone. But when you
actually create that context and you zoom out and you
go wow, Like this is a big industry. So many
people have been brainwashed, so many people have been marketed to,

(01:02:45):
and so many people have been made to believe that
this is the best thing for their kids, to the
point that you're on the phone and they're still saying no, no, no,
just work the program. And how does that affect how
you want to be a mother? Because I can imagine
that it makes you want to be really protective and
at the same time, like, you've also lived a life

(01:03:06):
where you know the benefits of exploring, like you talk
about in the book multiple times of like you're happy
you partied, You're happy you went out, Like you're not,
You're not upset with that. And then it's like, how
do you how do you think about becoming a mother
and how you plan on raising your child? Like how
do you think about protecting versus also exploring in curiosity?
And how that how you help a child with all

(01:03:29):
those crazy decisions we all left to make.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Now that I'm a parent. I can completely understand just
if I had a daughter and she was sneaking out
in the middle of the night in New York City
and I had no idea where she was, I would
be so terrified. So I can completely understand just how
my parents were just scared because they were just trying

(01:03:51):
to protect me. And I think that's a hard part
because you just want to protect your children so much,
and I think when you're so strict, it just makes
them want to rebel. So I don't know. I think
I'm definitely gonna be strict. I hope that my little
Phoenix does not rebel, but at least I'll be more

(01:04:12):
prepared because of everything that I went through. And also
I won't be able to be tricked without sneaking out
or any of that because I know everything. I'm hoping
that he will just feel so safe that he'll be
able to tell me anything or he won't want to
hide anything, because I think that's when kids will sneak

(01:04:37):
out or do things or lie because they feel like
they can't talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Yeah, I think that's what it is that really resonated
for me. Every kid in the world is going to
make bad mistakes, and bad choices and bad decisions. I mean,
I don't know anyone who hasn't. But if you feel
safe enough and comfortable enough to tell your parents and
you don't feel like you have to hide from them,
then you can actually solve stuff with them and you

(01:05:00):
don't feel judged by them, that makes the world of
a difference. I Yeah, it's it's funny what you said there,
Like you're like, he's never gonna be able to get
away with anything because you're you're you're the ultimate. He
is your son, so yeah, you never know, like he
might be he's going to be super smart as well
and know exactly how to play the game exactly. You
said in your You said in your documentary that you

(01:05:23):
don't believe you will be truly happily happy until you
have one billion dollars. How's that goal changed? How has
that metric changed?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
I think before I had such a focus on money
because I really saw that as freedom, because that was
something I said to myself, when I get out of here,
I'm going to become so successful, make so much money
that no one will be able to control me or
tell me what to do. But now I've just become

(01:05:53):
so successful and everything I've created with my media company
and all of that, and I'm so proud, but that's
not my main focus. I care more about baby snillions. Yes, yeah,
I can have both.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I love that. One of the things that really struck
me in your book, and I'm happy to hear that
shift in gold. That's beautiful. I think one of the
things that shifted you said this. You talked about how
you got robbed of time, and then you said the
only way you got through? And I thought this was
so true and so powerful, and that's why I want
to share it with everyone. You said the only way

(01:06:32):
you got through the school. Specific you're talking about the
school at that time, but assuming pretty much everything in
your teens that you went through in your twenties. You said,
I created a future world, a future self, and a
future life without boundaries, and that's how you survived. Can
you walk us through what that means?

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
How were you in this? Almost in prison like it
sounds that way the way you described it, but creating
a future world of futureself and a future life, what
does that look like when you're in prison chaos like pain?
How are you doing that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
I was just so just sad and depressed, and it
was just so horrible of what I was going through
every single day that I just started just creating in
my mind of this whole life that I wanted and
what I wanted to do. And I got out of
there and just building this kind of most fantasy life

(01:07:36):
of who I could be. And I really do believe
in manifestation and really manifesting who you can become, because
I really believe that I did that, and it all
started from just so much pain and then wanting to
turn it into something positive.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
How much of it happened the way you imagined it
versus how much of it has it actually been better
than you imagined or less than because yeah, I'd love
to know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
I always had big dreams, but I had no idea
it would ever be on this level, and it was
just it's been such a journey, just everything that I've
went through, Like when I was a little girl, I
wanted to be a veterinarian and then moved to New

(01:08:30):
York and just saw just this whole other world of
business and everything. And I think that just sitting there
and having time just to really think about everything. And
I always dreamed of having one perfume and now I'm
about to release my thirtieth and it's just that I
feel like everything I've really put my mind to has
came true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
And that was just your focus. So when you're in
that school facility and you're going through all of this,
your mind's just there. Is that literally you sit there
and visualize it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
It was like an escape definitely Otherwise or would have
just been so hard to go through if I didn't
have dreams of what I wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
And would you say that was the same technique with
One of the things that hit me was like, you know,
you felt good things happening in a role before and
then you know, specifically an example, when you're talking about
simple life comes out, it's going to come out, You're
excited about it. The sex stave comes out straight after
all of a sudden, everyone's you know, tearing you apart,

(01:09:34):
taking you down. It's the worst things happened where you know,
it's put up in a grocery store sign. You know,
there's you talk about all of this in the book,
and I'm thinking, you're just feeling like you've got through
the tough time, your life's on track, and then all
of a sudden, it's like this something goes back in
your face again. I'm like, how did you? Just I
constantly when I was reading the book, I was just like,

(01:09:55):
how do you get up from this? Right? Like? Was
it again the same visualation and manifestation that helps you
break through that or what helps you overcome and reframe that,
because I think that would just knock people out forever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
That was one of the most painful experiences to go through,
just to have been with someone and really loved and
trusted them and something that was one night of your
life where you never thought anyone would see it, and
then the whole world is watching it and judging and

(01:10:34):
just being so cruel and it was just mortifying. And
I didn't leave my house for months and I didn't
want to see anyone. I canceled the press tour for
The Simple Life. I just was It was so just
painful to go through that and just to have the

(01:10:56):
whole world just knowing that everyone was watching it. And
I just felt like he took away something from me
because I I had always looked up to these amazing
women and like Princess Diana, and I just felt that

(01:11:17):
because of what he did to me, the whole world
would have always assume that it was something that I
wasn't just based upon one night was someone who I
really trusted.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
What's the first step you took outside your house? What
gave you the courage to do it? And how did
you realize I'm not going to let that person define
my narrative.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Definitely took a while for me to feel brave enough
to go out there. And my first thing that I
did was actually Saturday Night Live with Jimmy Fallon, and
I feel like I took control of the narrative there,

(01:12:03):
just with that script, with how they wrote it. I
thought it was just really yeah, you sharing the book
really well, just a funny way to I don't know
how to describe it, but I just felt like I
was taking control of my narrative in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Yeah, when I read your story and when I listen
to them, like, here's someone who has just never back down,
like never given up. And I think this book, which
I encourage everyone's listening to read, I really do because
I think when we see things in the news, they're
very different to when you see it from the viewpoint
of the person going through it. Yeah, And I just

(01:12:41):
want everyone to think about, for a second, just how
you feel when your friends think something differently than the truth,
or how you feel when your parents or maybe you
live in a bigger community and they all think something
of you that wasn't true, or they see something about
you and they react to it differently, and you know

(01:13:02):
inside of you how you feel when your narrative is
taken away from you, and it's stripped away from you
and another narrative is placed on you. I think everyone
in the world knows what that feels like on some scale,
in some level, and I hope that it allows us
to see that nuance in everyone else. It's not saying

(01:13:22):
that anyone's perfect or anyone's amazing. It's saying that can
we just accept that there are two sides to every story,
that there are there's countless hidden truths that we never
discover that we're not aware of, and that there's nuance
to everything, there's subtleties to everything, and that everything isn't
how it's made to seem in the way it's presented.

(01:13:44):
And if we could just give people the benefit of
the doubt, we'll probably give ourselves the benefit of the
doubt as well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Definitely, don't judge a book by its cover.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Yeah, and we all do that all the time. Paris,
it has been such a way talking to you today
because I really appreciate your trust. I know you haven't
done a lot of interviews, and you haven't. I really
appreciated value your trust and your team's trust in me,
and having this conversation with me today, it really means
a lot to me having read your book to actually
get to sit with you. And we end every episode

(01:14:16):
with a final five. These are five questions that have
to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum,
so short answers. You're very good at taglines and all
the rest of it, so this should be easy for you.
But Paris Hilton, these are your final five question Numble.
One is what is the best advice you've ever heard

(01:14:36):
or received?

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
You only live once, to make the most of it, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
And what's the second question, what's the worst advice you've
ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
The worst advice that I've ever seen is when people
say to care so much about the opinions of others.
And I feel that in my life, that are you
to just care so much about what others think? And
I think it's just important to care only about people

(01:15:06):
in your life, to love and care about you think,
and not others who are not good people.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Question number three, how would you define your current purpose?

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
My current purpose is to make the world a safer
place for children.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Oh, that is a beautiful purpose. Thank you for doing that. Like,
I feel so grateful that's your purpose. I think that's
such a need in the world right now, and the
legislations and the bills, and you know, that's the only
way it's really going to happen. To make sure that
it doesn't happen in the first place, in a proactive way.
So that's really beautiful. If you had a message or

(01:15:47):
an intention or something you would say to the people
that have hurt you and made you feel like you
were the one who had to be shamed and embarrassed,
what would you say to them?

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
You should be ashamed of what you done. And I
hope that you read this book and you never do
it again.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Thank you. Great answer. Again. I think it's so interesting,
Like to really feel remorseful, and to really feel sorry
means to really try your best to live through the

(01:16:34):
pain you caused someone. I don't think you can. You
can never really take you can never take back what
you did, and you can never to be honest, you're sorry,
and your remorse can never really repay the other person.
And I'm guessing you've had to do all this work
without any apologies or remorse right or has there ever

(01:16:55):
been any apology or remorse from any of these people
or never? No?

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
Never.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
I think that's probably one of the most incredible lessons
from this book is that there's a famous quote that
says we should learn to accept apologies that we've never received.
And it seems like that's what your work is doing,
that you've learned to accept apologies that actually never came
your way. And I love what you said about people

(01:17:32):
reading the book to really understand how much they can
potentially wreck and ruin someone's life, especially a young person.
Fifth and final question, You'll like this one. If you
could create one law in the world that everyone had
to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
My law would be that everyone has to do one
kind thing every single day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
I feel that the more things that people do, the
better place the world will be.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
I love that, Paris. Thank you for being here, Thank
you for writing this book. I want to ask you
a question. Is there anything that anything that's on your
heart and mind that I haven't asked you about that
you've really wanted to share that. I want to open
it up, give you that space. Is there anything you'd
like to share, anything I haven't asked you that he
feels really front of mind or front of heart for you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
I can't think of anything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
That's good, that's a good thing, that makes me happy,
that makes me happy. I just I just wanted to
honor it because I you know, I really feel you've
been so giving, in kind and generous through your story.
And I want everyone out there who's listening and watching
to go and grab a copy of the book, Paris
the Memoir, give it to a friend who's gone through something,
or you might know they've gone through through something and

(01:18:49):
they're not sure how to process it, and they're thinking
about it, they're struggling with it. I think that this
book is going to open up some incredible conversations about abuse,
about idiotd about connection to our families and parents, about
rediscovering ourselves. And I hope it starts that conversation for
you and your friends. Paris. Thank you again, thank you,

(01:19:11):
thank you, so happy king on this awesome thank you,
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. If you love
this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez
on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to
yourself with more compassion.

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Host

Paris Hilton

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Paris Hilton ON: How to Stop Shame from Controlling Your Life & Turning Pain into Purpose