May 31, 2022 • 31 mins
Anna Delvey...you know her name. You watched Inventing Anna on Netflix. But, you have never heard her like this. Paris and Nicky Hilton are interviewing her in the only way the "Real Heiresses" could talk to the "Fake Heiress".
How did she get away with the things she got away with? Is she upset about the Netflix show?
They ask about it all...who visits her to fan Mail, dating, and marriage proposals.
Plus, the biggest misconception about Anna Delvey.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Paris. Ye hey everyone, We're back with another
episode of This is Paris. Today I am joined by
my sister Nikki. Hey, Nikki, Hi, how are you good?
(00:22):
I miss you? I miss you. How's the pregnancy going good.
I'm at the end stretch, so I'm excited and been
a little sleepy, like I just got up from nap
um resting a lot, which is I haven't had a
(00:42):
nap in like five years, so being able to rest
and catch up on sleep has been nice. But yeah,
it's going nice. Oh yeah, by the way, I just
got delivered your new Blondie's those Nightingale I sed aram
bars with the Graham crackers and the Honeycomb ice cream,
(01:04):
and I'm addicted, Like how good are they? Insane? I
ate five of them. Oh my friends are complaining. They're like,
why are you releasing those during summer when I'm trying
to look good? They're so delicious. I'm really really happy
with how that came out. They're so good. Carter and
I were eating them again last night while watching a movie,
(01:27):
and I'm gonna have them send you another box. Actually, yes,
please do, because they're they're just too good or you
know what you can buy them. They're on gold Belly
and a portion of proceeds goes to God's Lovely Deliver.
So I'm not going to send you them. Go pay
for them yourself. That's fine. And what's the charity God's
(01:49):
Lovely deliver which is I'm on the board of in
New York. And what do they do. God's Love delivers
meals to New Yorkers who are too sick to shop
or cook for themselves. And they make medically tailored meals
for New Yorkers And they're a great organization and I'm
(02:12):
really proud to be a part of it. Oh that's sweet. Well,
I will order them now. Yes. So I'm very excited
about today's guest. It's a show that I've been watching
called Inventing Anna, and today we have Anna Delvi. Okay,
so she's in the detention center now, but she is
(02:32):
going to be calling us from the jail phone. I
don't know how she's going to call us. She probably
has like an iPad or something. I don't know. But
I'm excited for this interview because I was just so
fascinated by the story um Inventing Anna on Netflix, and
(02:54):
she just seems like such a character and and just
like curious to talk to her. No, it should be interesting.
I've been reading about this woman for years and there's
just there's so many questions I have, So this should
be for you know, this should be an interesting interview.
(03:15):
But let's hope she talks because I know she has
that book coming out, so I feel like she's going
to be a little tight lift and keep the juicy
stuff for the book. But you know, we'll try to
try and squeeze her. But I think we should approach
(03:35):
this interview a little differently because I've been watching her
on some of the different podcasts and interviews she's been giving,
and they're kind of all the same and boring and
focusing on the legal charges. And for those of you
who don't know, she was arrested in two thousand seventeen
(03:57):
after defrauding major financial institutions, banks, hotels, and acquaintances. She
was sentenced to forward to twelve years in prison, and
she served nearly four years, and now she's an iced
attention center. But I'm more curious about her life in
(04:20):
New York and how this girl came out of thin
air and just infiltrated the New York scene and just
this led or she you know, she says she didn't. Um,
this led a lot of people. I'm just very I'm
(04:43):
very fascinated by her. And I have to admit that
I had some pushback from some friends, being like, why
are you guys going to interview this woman? Why would
you give her a platform and reward this bad behavior?
But my answer is it's I'm curious. I think it's
(05:06):
a very interesting story that took place in my hometown,
and I have some questions. I don't know, she was
so close to our New York orbit, and I'm so
surprised we never came across her, I know, And just
to think about, like, how many other people who do
the exact same thing like have gotten away with it. Yeah,
(05:30):
there's so many people who come into New York and
they act like they have, you know, all this, and
then later on you find out it's like either all
a lie or something really shady. Um. Yeah, I just
I've seen it all. Jared took her actually to see
a listing for her arts club back in like two
thousand and fifteen or sixteen, and he said instantly he
(05:55):
knew something was off. He said, she was not that friendly,
and that it almost appeared like she read how to
act like an heiress's handbook and like she was just
very weird. He asked for proof of funds. She never responded. Um.
(06:17):
And then another friend I know also met her. She
went to him for investment in the arts club. He
also said within ten minutes he smelled a bullsh but
he was so intrigued by her that he stayed in
the meeting for the full hour. He's just like, I'm fascinated,
and I think that's really why we're here today. It's
(06:41):
crazy how many people that she did trick, like all
of these guys, like from these top banks. It's just
it is such a fascinating story. Alright, So she's in
the waiting room. Let's bring her in. Yeah, Hi, Enna,
(07:07):
h Hi, how are you good. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you as well. This is my sister.
She's in New York. So we have her on the computer.
If you could see, like right here, Hi, Hi, Nikki,
how are you. I'm good? How are you? I'm well?
Where are you right now? I'm actually an upstate New
(07:30):
York and I'm like, now we're away from the city
in Orange County. Oh, so you're in New York. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
When you guys thought I was not an Orange County
California and Fortune, I was getting get confused with Orange County, California. Anyway, UM,
thank you for chatting with us today. Did you think
(07:51):
it was very random when you got this interview request
from Paris and I? Um, I think one of my
friends said, like, Paris reposted the invanting Anna, So UM,
I think that's how it came along. But yeah, it
was kind of surprising because we've been doing our fair
(08:12):
share of research on you. We've we've watched the Netflix show,
We've been listening to the different interviews and podcasts, and
I mean, we're fascinated. And Paris and I was saying
how we really didn't want to like talk to you
too much about the case, and you know everyone knows
(08:35):
that story. We really wanted to just like learn about
you and your life in New York. Um. I'm a
born and bred New Yorker. I love New York and
so I feel like that would be my first question.
Did we ever come in contact in New York? I
(08:58):
don't even know. Uh, we may have, who knows, no,
Because I I read that you were like always at
the Bowery Hotel, and I used to live directly across
the street from the Bowery Hotel. Like I literally got
my mail there and was there all the time. And
I was like, I wonder if we ever like we're
(09:19):
in the same room. We probably definitely have been in
the same room. I don't remember we were talking to you,
but we definitely might have been in the same room.
A fashion magazine. So like, I've been to a lot
of shows, and all you guys go as well. So yeah,
we used to the Purple Dinner. We used to go
(09:42):
to during every fashion week, Oh my gosh, and especially
like the one in Paris. I went to the Paris one, Like, uh,
in two thousand and eleven twelve. What year was the
first year you went to like your first fashion week?
It must have been in two thousand eleven in New York.
(10:05):
Last the week, No, in Paris, because that's this is
when I started. And UM in New York it must
have been a late a year later. They would have
been what shows did you go to? UM in New York?
Oh my gosh, I went to Caplin Clyde, Alexander Jang,
Um gosh. What else I go to like my queen
(10:30):
I in Paris Balenciaga. We're in Paris, Um, god, what else? Yeah,
I've been to also to Loronto too, I think nice. Yeah,
And what was it about New York that drew you?
I just have the energy and the people, and I
(10:54):
know it just like attracts all kinds of people from
all different works of life, and you don't really have
the same managing in Europe where I grew up. I
grew up in like a very small town and it
was like pretty much just white people. I went to
Catholic school, So to me, like New York was very
exciting because it's just so different from what I was
(11:15):
used to. What were some of your favorite places to
go out at? Like did you go to nightclubs or
are you more like going to restaurants. I'm already like
a person. Um like I would go to like fashional
art parties, but I would not like really just randomly
go out for no reason. Um. We used to go
to like to Up and Down Cabin down below. Um
(11:41):
all this place is like Paul's baby grand I asked,
like a little bron I think it's closed now. So
you went out happy, happy, ending. Yes, New York used
to be so much fun before the pandemic. No, but
(12:04):
I'm reading that it's coming back now, coming back finally.
It's been a while, so you haven't missed much hopefully not. No, definitely.
What were your favorite restaurants in New York? I kind
(12:26):
of swishes. Um. I used to go to Likely Cuckoo
a lot because I just lived there in eleven Howard.
Also like like Jack's Wife Freedom, I like like Butcher's Dater,
just like the casual places. I don't know, there's just
so much. I love Schuko for sushi. I'm like, oh yeah,
um like my ray of for seafood, and I'm like,
(12:49):
I don't eat fish, I don't eat mate. So um,
it's kind of like it's difficult sometimes. I mean it's
getting like it's gotten much better in New York, like
vegetarian place this, But yeah, what do you think of
the dating scene in New York? Of the dating scene
in New York? Gosh, I'm like the wrong person as
(13:12):
to ask that. I have no idea. I mean it's
more exciting than anywhere else, Like it's more exciting than
in Europe. But I don't know. Um, I'll get back
to you on that once I'm out. Yes, And how
long did you live at UM? At the hotel for
(13:34):
Um for a couple of months. Well, I never already
had a place in New York before two thousand seventeen,
so I always lived in the hotels before that. But
when I was out last year, UM, I did get
my own place. We also lived in hotels for a
lot of our life, and people always asked me what
(13:55):
was your favorite thing about living in a hotel, and
I always said the sheets every single day. It wasn't
the room service, it was the fresh towels and sheets
every day. What about you that definitely yes. And it's
kind of like you always have a feeling that you're
like surrounded by people and you kind of like alone,
(14:17):
but you're never really alone, and like you can always
ask somebody for something and you don't really have it
the same way like when you're just by yourself an apartment.
This is like the feeling I got when I got
my own place, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I
can't like really like just go down to the front desk,
but it's like there's just nobody there, Like I have
a dormant but they don't really like interact with you
(14:39):
like that not the same as a hotel, Like it's
just not the same um degree with like hospitality, I guess,
just like in a building and the way you get
it in a hotel. It's like you're kind of like
living with other people without living with them. Definitely. Yeah, everything,
(15:00):
there's something exciting happening all the time. As remember Nicki
and I were a little like sneak into like whatever,
like like big events happening when we were like eleven
years old, and would just like go in and it
would just be to explore in the ballrooms. Yes, it's
like it's like you're living on top of a party
and like you don't really have to participate, but you
(15:21):
always have the option to exactly. Congratulations on your art show.
I just saw that you like exhibited your art in
New York. That's it looks really cool. I left the
presentation of it. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, we planned
(15:41):
that one a while. How long have you been doing art? Um? Well?
I went to parents to Parsons in Paris U for
fashion illustration. I kind of stopped. I didn't really like
sketch again until my trial because it's just like such
an awkward scenario where like you just sit and you
(16:02):
have to like listen all day and there's not always
something going on in court, so they're like kind of
stretches of time, but like you're just waiting, but you
can't like really sit there like edom magazine that's completely inappropriate.
So I ended up like sketching, and one of my
first catches like ended up in New York Times. This
was the one of my prosecutor and it kind of
(16:22):
like went from there. I did like a couple other
sketches UM when I was an albion because I didn't
really give any interviews and I didn't want to be
quoted by um by my parole board officers because like
they kind of used everything against you. They have a
way to like twist whatever you say into why you
should remain in jail. So that was like a non
(16:45):
verbal way for me to communicate with people. M Yeah,
I love doing art, and I heard that you're getting
into n f T S. Yes, yes, so it's going
to be like a call in card and to be
a fun little project. That's cool. What is the difference
(17:07):
between being in the prison and being an ice. Yeah, well,
there is none so I'm not in a city because
the city does not hold anybody for ice like they
it's just like a safe haven. So I theoretically should
have been at writers, but I'm not. And this is
kind of like the closest place that they have a
contract with. But I'm literally the only female in ice custody.
(17:30):
Everybody else is just like for regular criminal charges. So
and what do you do? Like, what what's your schedule? Like, man,
what do you wake up and do? So jail is
different from prison, Like in jail, they don't like make
you do anything. You just do whatever you want because
jail is like it's definitely pre trial detention and the
(17:52):
only purpose of people who are in jail is like
for them to hold you until your next court did.
And um, I'm just a own phone calls and like
I text people. I used to work on my art show,
Um now it's done. I'm still working on my book. Um,
I'm also doing my own podcast. Uh. Just like taking
(18:12):
full advantage of this tablets. I have this video app,
so I always have something going on. You have a
telephone with you now you can text and stuff. No,
I have like a tablet, so I don't have like
free access to the Internet app but I have messaging
and this is how I video you and I have
like access to the news, but no social media and
(18:33):
no Google but like very limited. This is Paris. I
had a question just backtracking to the hotels. What stood
out for me in the Netflix show is how in
(18:54):
the hell did you check into these hotels and charter
planes without a function in credit card? Because I know,
like for me, if I walk into a hotel and
I don't have a card that can swipe, They're not
letting me in. I don't even think Paris a Hilton
hotel would let us check in without a functioning card.
(19:15):
So how did that all go down? Because that was
like very peculiar. I think Netflix is a dramatized version
of events and it's not like really how it happened.
Usually I don't know. For example, Hope, but the leve
On Howard, I did check in for the credit card,
but then that would you know, how like they just
(19:35):
randomly pre authorize your card and like you can't they
cannot ready control it, and like you cannot really control
it either, and like my debit card for example, would
have like dollar dated in it. But if they use
it randomly, I cannot use it anymore and like bank
cannot fix it. So um, I would just like make
(19:57):
an arrangement for them where I would like wire them them,
and I did do that. So I think it's like
a big misconception that I did not like pay eleven Howard.
But um no, yeah, yeah, you love you were big
on wiring. He loved to wire money, huh. And I
(20:21):
don't wash the Netflix series my stuff. I only like
watch big bits and pieces, So I'm sure like they
over um exaggerated some parts. But so which parts were
you upset about that they put in that weren't true? Um,
I'm really upset about anything because I don't really see
(20:43):
it as a like it's not a documentary, so it's
just like Shawonda's creative work and it's inspired by my
story and like people should just take it had what
they want to take it. Um, it's not up to
me to like sit here and take it apart based
by pizza like pieces by pieces. So yeah, I just
(21:04):
don't think that's not the purpose of it. I don't
like people ask me if I faked a suicide or
something to not pay like I've never done that. That's
just too crazy. Um, I wouldn't never do that, so
hopefully people don't think that's true. Yeah, that was in
the scene in Los Angeles where you went to Passages.
(21:26):
I'm just curious, how how did you like Passages because
I know a few people who have been there, and
the Malibu rehab seen is quite calm could at times.
I'm just wondering, Um, did you feel it helped you? Well?
I didn't go there like for any addiction, really, but
(21:50):
I like some people there who I knew. Um, I
don't know. I don't feel like anybody can really help
you unless you want to help yourself. I agree. Yeah,
I don't feel like it doesn't matter where you go
to to like the best rehab or the worst, unless
like you decide for yourself, like what to do with
(22:10):
your life. Like it's just kind of secondary. It's a
nice place, So it's nice, right, And you were all
sis staying at the Chateau Mormont in l A. Right, Yes,
did you like that hotel? Yes? So the employees are
very very nice there. Actually, like been reading all this
(22:32):
coverage that most of the people have been laid off
and like they did not get paid anything. And I
find like, this is very frustrating because I felt like
this is what made the place, and because the place
is whatever, it's pretty, but it's like you just have
so many beautiful properties around the world. This is not
what stands out about the Shadow always like the people
who worked there. I don't know exactly who who's been
(22:56):
like laid off, but just like thinking back, it's probably
not the same as it used to be. Would you
ever have thought that you would have a television show
about your life? No, absolutely not. It definitely was the
purpose of the whole thing. But just life works out
(23:17):
like in crazy ways. Have you been getting lots of
fan mail? I definitely was, Yes, I get a ton
of letters, Uh, all kinds of crasy stuff, a lot
of like marriage proposals, definitely more Before I was like
churched with any crimes, which is interesting, any good ones
(23:39):
that you like? Uh, I don't think. I'm like I'm
willing to go that route yet. Would you want to
get married and hadn't have a family one day? Um,
I don't know. I honestly don't care if I get married,
Like it's really not like a goal I'm saying for myself,
(24:00):
like maybe later I'm just kind of trying to focus
like on sorting out what I have going on right now.
And um, I think if anything, I've learned, like planning
long term like often does not really work out the
way the way it's supposed to. So, like I had
so many plans. I had like a five year plan
to any year plan, and like, look at me now,
(24:23):
and what is your plan when you go re enter
the real world? Are you still wanting to do this
social club? No? Absolutely not. I just think like I've
been through so much and it was a nice idea,
but I started it when I was like twenty three,
and I just can't ignore the experiences that I've been through.
(24:47):
I don't feel like the world just really needs another
social art club. And it's so interesting because since you
have been away, New York has opened up so any
different members only clubs. So you were you were on
the right track, I know, right. I mean it is
(25:09):
good for them, Like I have no hard feelings about it.
I'm just not interested like in pursuing something like that anymore.
So what what's your plan? Well, I have like multiple
projects I'm working on right now, and I would love
to like do something with criminal justice because I feel
like I have this unique position where I've been for
(25:34):
the system and I know exactly what's wrong, and I
have so many ideas how it can be fixed. It's
like I never said that the system is bad or
there should be no jails. I just feel like the
rules should be there, but they can be so much better,
And I think I should definitely use my voice to
um like to advocate for a change, because it's just
(25:55):
so crazy. There's so many people who think, like, oh,
the government, they just know what they're doing, but they
don't really because it's not really them sitting there a
day today and nobody cares or listens to the people,
like to the inmates. M So I'm like trying not
to waste, waste the opportunity, and they're just like so
many mistakes, Like it could have been so much better.
(26:18):
Has anything crazy happened in there with any of the
other inmates. I mean crazy things happened all the time here,
just like it's kind of the same as real life,
Like I saw, I saw a lot. I saw, like
I don't know, just girls like losing custody of their kids,
losing jobs just because they were like in jail for
two or three weeks if somebody made a mistake. Oh,
(26:41):
I don't know, Like they're just all kinds of scenarios
playing themselves out, like on daily basis, how long have
you been been there in this place? I've been here
since June last year. Are you so bored? Um, I'm
(27:01):
like bored of this lifestyle. But I'm not like Bord
on daily basis. Just I don't know, maybe like I'm
just fake busy, but I always have something going on
and I know, but I cannot wait to get out
of here. I would not recommend this to anybody. Do
you have friends or family that come visit you? Yes,
(27:23):
well my family is in Germany, but I have lots
of friends in New York and uh yeah, I give
visits all the time. Do they let you visit face
to face or do you have to do it behind
the glass. It's behind the glass because of COVID. What
has been the hardest part Yeah, yeah, um, I don't.
(27:48):
I don't really feel strongly about visits because it's just
thirty minutes. So I just like video chat with people
a lot. Mm hmm. What's the hardest part about being there?
It just like not being able to do anything for myself,
so like I have to ask other people for everything,
(28:09):
Like I have to rely on everybody. Like if I
want to get like a Vogue, I cannot get it myself.
I have to ask somebody to like make sure they
actually do it. And it's really frustrating. I don't feel
like this should be in it, this experience like this,
it's just yeah, it's just like it's just like people
should be self sufficient, Like like I'm lucky, I have
(28:33):
a huge support system, and I have like a lot
of people who do a lot of things for me,
and like I literally would not be able to do
anything from here if I didn't have their help. And
I'm just like thinking, like looking at other girls who
it's like who is responsible for you now, like their
kids or their parents or like their boyfriends. They shouldn't
really be like that. You should not become a burdener
(28:54):
on everybody who's like who you surround yourself with, just
because you're in jail. But there is no way to
do anything for yourself in here, Like you cannot get
a job, you cannot go and order anything. You're literally
like you're lying on other people's kindness in a way,
you've made a lot of friends in there. Um, like
(29:18):
I'm a friendly with people, but it's like constantly rotating,
like nobody would stays here for too long. I'm one
of like the longest um saying people here, like people
usually come here or like they just get bailed out,
or like they go up stay to prison, or they
go home. Um yeah, but it's definitely been like fascinating
to see like everybody has a story and uh yeah,
(29:41):
just like a totally different life that I've been exposed to,
Like I would not have had all any of this
experiences had I still been like in New York or
London or Paris, like doing the art club. Do you
plan to come back to New York? Like where? What's
a dream scenario? Where do you want to live when
(30:02):
you get out? Well, yeah, I really, um, I would
stay in New York. Yeah that's kind of the main
goal here. Yeah. I love New York, Like it means
a lot to me. I have a lot of people
who I consider my friends and kind of like my
whole adult life, I lived out like while being in
the city, and I just never already felt home, like
(30:24):
I lived a little bit everywhere. So I like two
years in Paris. I lived in London for like a
little bit, but I never really felt like home anywhere,
like and you know, well I'm in Paris. I always
think like, oh, I just like I can't wait to
go back to New York, while like when I'm in
New York, I don't really like I'm not dying to
go anywhere else. M And what do you think the
(30:47):
biggest misconception is about you? Um? Gosh, I don't know.
I think there are a lot. I guess like I'm
just like this stupidly untitled person. Um. I think I
consider myself like pretty reasonable. I read that you said
that you never told people that you were a German heiress.
(31:11):
Is that true? Yeah, I absolutely never told any such
thing to anybody. And like they just kind of put
the pieces together after the prosecution released, they pressed statement,
all right, I know that you have to go, but
I just wanted to say thank you for coming on
the show and we enjoyed speaking of you. Byana, Byana,
(31:31):
thanks for listening to this is Paris. We love hearing
from you, So leave us a review. Send an email
to Paris at my heart radio dot com. Leave a
voicemail at eight three three eighty seven Paris and follow
us at This is Paris podcast, Follow Paris at Paris Hilton,
and follow Hunter March hosted He's Nightly Bob at Hunter
March
This is Paris. Ye hey everyone, We're back with another
episode of This is Paris. Today I am joined by
my sister Nikki. Hey, Nikki, Hi, how are you good?
(00:22):
I miss you? I miss you. How's the pregnancy going good.
I'm at the end stretch, so I'm excited and been
a little sleepy, like I just got up from nap
um resting a lot, which is I haven't had a
(00:42):
nap in like five years, so being able to rest
and catch up on sleep has been nice. But yeah,
it's going nice. Oh yeah, by the way, I just
got delivered your new Blondie's those Nightingale I sed aram
bars with the Graham crackers and the Honeycomb ice cream,
(01:04):
and I'm addicted, Like how good are they? Insane? I
ate five of them. Oh my friends are complaining. They're like,
why are you releasing those during summer when I'm trying
to look good? They're so delicious. I'm really really happy
with how that came out. They're so good. Carter and
I were eating them again last night while watching a movie,
(01:27):
and I'm gonna have them send you another box. Actually, yes,
please do, because they're they're just too good or you
know what you can buy them. They're on gold Belly
and a portion of proceeds goes to God's Lovely Deliver.
So I'm not going to send you them. Go pay
for them yourself. That's fine. And what's the charity God's
(01:49):
Lovely deliver which is I'm on the board of in
New York. And what do they do. God's Love delivers
meals to New Yorkers who are too sick to shop
or cook for themselves. And they make medically tailored meals
for New Yorkers And they're a great organization and I'm
(02:12):
really proud to be a part of it. Oh that's sweet. Well,
I will order them now. Yes. So I'm very excited
about today's guest. It's a show that I've been watching
called Inventing Anna, and today we have Anna Delvi. Okay,
so she's in the detention center now, but she is
(02:32):
going to be calling us from the jail phone. I
don't know how she's going to call us. She probably
has like an iPad or something. I don't know. But
I'm excited for this interview because I was just so
fascinated by the story um Inventing Anna on Netflix, and
(02:54):
she just seems like such a character and and just
like curious to talk to her. No, it should be interesting.
I've been reading about this woman for years and there's
just there's so many questions I have, So this should
be for you know, this should be an interesting interview.
(03:15):
But let's hope she talks because I know she has
that book coming out, so I feel like she's going
to be a little tight lift and keep the juicy
stuff for the book. But you know, we'll try to
try and squeeze her. But I think we should approach
(03:35):
this interview a little differently because I've been watching her
on some of the different podcasts and interviews she's been giving,
and they're kind of all the same and boring and
focusing on the legal charges. And for those of you
who don't know, she was arrested in two thousand seventeen
(03:57):
after defrauding major financial institutions, banks, hotels, and acquaintances. She
was sentenced to forward to twelve years in prison, and
she served nearly four years, and now she's an iced
attention center. But I'm more curious about her life in
(04:20):
New York and how this girl came out of thin
air and just infiltrated the New York scene and just
this led or she you know, she says she didn't. Um,
this led a lot of people. I'm just very I'm
(04:43):
very fascinated by her. And I have to admit that
I had some pushback from some friends, being like, why
are you guys going to interview this woman? Why would
you give her a platform and reward this bad behavior?
But my answer is it's I'm curious. I think it's
(05:06):
a very interesting story that took place in my hometown,
and I have some questions. I don't know, she was
so close to our New York orbit, and I'm so
surprised we never came across her, I know, And just
to think about, like, how many other people who do
the exact same thing like have gotten away with it. Yeah,
(05:30):
there's so many people who come into New York and
they act like they have, you know, all this, and
then later on you find out it's like either all
a lie or something really shady. Um. Yeah, I just
I've seen it all. Jared took her actually to see
a listing for her arts club back in like two
thousand and fifteen or sixteen, and he said instantly he
(05:55):
knew something was off. He said, she was not that friendly,
and that it almost appeared like she read how to
act like an heiress's handbook and like she was just
very weird. He asked for proof of funds. She never responded. Um.
(06:17):
And then another friend I know also met her. She
went to him for investment in the arts club. He
also said within ten minutes he smelled a bullsh but
he was so intrigued by her that he stayed in
the meeting for the full hour. He's just like, I'm fascinated,
and I think that's really why we're here today. It's
(06:41):
crazy how many people that she did trick, like all
of these guys, like from these top banks. It's just
it is such a fascinating story. Alright, So she's in
the waiting room. Let's bring her in. Yeah, Hi, Enna,
(07:07):
h Hi, how are you good. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you as well. This is my sister.
She's in New York. So we have her on the computer.
If you could see, like right here, Hi, Hi, Nikki,
how are you. I'm good? How are you? I'm well?
Where are you right now? I'm actually an upstate New
(07:30):
York and I'm like, now we're away from the city
in Orange County. Oh, so you're in New York. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
When you guys thought I was not an Orange County
California and Fortune, I was getting get confused with Orange County, California. Anyway, UM,
thank you for chatting with us today. Did you think
(07:51):
it was very random when you got this interview request
from Paris and I? Um, I think one of my
friends said, like, Paris reposted the invanting Anna, So UM,
I think that's how it came along. But yeah, it
was kind of surprising because we've been doing our fair
(08:12):
share of research on you. We've we've watched the Netflix show,
We've been listening to the different interviews and podcasts, and
I mean, we're fascinated. And Paris and I was saying
how we really didn't want to like talk to you
too much about the case, and you know everyone knows
(08:35):
that story. We really wanted to just like learn about
you and your life in New York. Um. I'm a
born and bred New Yorker. I love New York and
so I feel like that would be my first question.
Did we ever come in contact in New York? I
(08:58):
don't even know. Uh, we may have, who knows, no,
Because I I read that you were like always at
the Bowery Hotel, and I used to live directly across
the street from the Bowery Hotel. Like I literally got
my mail there and was there all the time. And
I was like, I wonder if we ever like we're
(09:19):
in the same room. We probably definitely have been in
the same room. I don't remember we were talking to you,
but we definitely might have been in the same room.
A fashion magazine. So like, I've been to a lot
of shows, and all you guys go as well. So yeah,
we used to the Purple Dinner. We used to go
(09:42):
to during every fashion week, Oh my gosh, and especially
like the one in Paris. I went to the Paris one, Like, uh,
in two thousand and eleven twelve. What year was the
first year you went to like your first fashion week?
It must have been in two thousand eleven in New York.
(10:05):
Last the week, No, in Paris, because that's this is
when I started. And UM in New York it must
have been a late a year later. They would have
been what shows did you go to? UM in New York?
Oh my gosh, I went to Caplin Clyde, Alexander Jang,
Um gosh. What else I go to like my queen
(10:30):
I in Paris Balenciaga. We're in Paris, Um, god, what else? Yeah,
I've been to also to Loronto too, I think nice. Yeah,
And what was it about New York that drew you?
I just have the energy and the people, and I
(10:54):
know it just like attracts all kinds of people from
all different works of life, and you don't really have
the same managing in Europe where I grew up. I
grew up in like a very small town and it
was like pretty much just white people. I went to
Catholic school, So to me, like New York was very
exciting because it's just so different from what I was
(11:15):
used to. What were some of your favorite places to
go out at? Like did you go to nightclubs or
are you more like going to restaurants. I'm already like
a person. Um like I would go to like fashional
art parties, but I would not like really just randomly
go out for no reason. Um. We used to go
to like to Up and Down Cabin down below. Um
(11:41):
all this place is like Paul's baby grand I asked,
like a little bron I think it's closed now. So
you went out happy, happy, ending. Yes, New York used
to be so much fun before the pandemic. No, but
(12:04):
I'm reading that it's coming back now, coming back finally.
It's been a while, so you haven't missed much hopefully not. No, definitely.
What were your favorite restaurants in New York? I kind
(12:26):
of swishes. Um. I used to go to Likely Cuckoo
a lot because I just lived there in eleven Howard.
Also like like Jack's Wife Freedom, I like like Butcher's Dater,
just like the casual places. I don't know, there's just
so much. I love Schuko for sushi. I'm like, oh yeah,
um like my ray of for seafood, and I'm like,
(12:49):
I don't eat fish, I don't eat mate. So um,
it's kind of like it's difficult sometimes. I mean it's
getting like it's gotten much better in New York, like
vegetarian place this, But yeah, what do you think of
the dating scene in New York? Of the dating scene
in New York? Gosh, I'm like the wrong person as
(13:12):
to ask that. I have no idea. I mean it's
more exciting than anywhere else, Like it's more exciting than
in Europe. But I don't know. Um, I'll get back
to you on that once I'm out. Yes, And how
long did you live at UM? At the hotel for
(13:34):
Um for a couple of months. Well, I never already
had a place in New York before two thousand seventeen,
so I always lived in the hotels before that. But
when I was out last year, UM, I did get
my own place. We also lived in hotels for a
lot of our life, and people always asked me what
(13:55):
was your favorite thing about living in a hotel, and
I always said the sheets every single day. It wasn't
the room service, it was the fresh towels and sheets
every day. What about you that definitely yes. And it's
kind of like you always have a feeling that you're
like surrounded by people and you kind of like alone,
(14:17):
but you're never really alone, and like you can always
ask somebody for something and you don't really have it
the same way like when you're just by yourself an apartment.
This is like the feeling I got when I got
my own place, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I
can't like really like just go down to the front desk,
but it's like there's just nobody there, Like I have
a dormant but they don't really like interact with you
(14:39):
like that not the same as a hotel, Like it's
just not the same um degree with like hospitality, I guess,
just like in a building and the way you get
it in a hotel. It's like you're kind of like
living with other people without living with them. Definitely. Yeah, everything,
(15:00):
there's something exciting happening all the time. As remember Nicki
and I were a little like sneak into like whatever,
like like big events happening when we were like eleven
years old, and would just like go in and it
would just be to explore in the ballrooms. Yes, it's
like it's like you're living on top of a party
and like you don't really have to participate, but you
(15:21):
always have the option to exactly. Congratulations on your art show.
I just saw that you like exhibited your art in
New York. That's it looks really cool. I left the
presentation of it. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, we planned
(15:41):
that one a while. How long have you been doing art? Um? Well?
I went to parents to Parsons in Paris U for
fashion illustration. I kind of stopped. I didn't really like
sketch again until my trial because it's just like such
an awkward scenario where like you just sit and you
(16:02):
have to like listen all day and there's not always
something going on in court, so they're like kind of
stretches of time, but like you're just waiting, but you
can't like really sit there like edom magazine that's completely inappropriate.
So I ended up like sketching, and one of my
first catches like ended up in New York Times. This
was the one of my prosecutor and it kind of
(16:22):
like went from there. I did like a couple other
sketches UM when I was an albion because I didn't
really give any interviews and I didn't want to be
quoted by um by my parole board officers because like
they kind of used everything against you. They have a
way to like twist whatever you say into why you
should remain in jail. So that was like a non
(16:45):
verbal way for me to communicate with people. M Yeah,
I love doing art, and I heard that you're getting
into n f T S. Yes, yes, so it's going
to be like a call in card and to be
a fun little project. That's cool. What is the difference
(17:07):
between being in the prison and being an ice. Yeah, well,
there is none so I'm not in a city because
the city does not hold anybody for ice like they
it's just like a safe haven. So I theoretically should
have been at writers, but I'm not. And this is
kind of like the closest place that they have a
contract with. But I'm literally the only female in ice custody.
(17:30):
Everybody else is just like for regular criminal charges. So
and what do you do? Like, what what's your schedule? Like, man,
what do you wake up and do? So jail is
different from prison, Like in jail, they don't like make
you do anything. You just do whatever you want because
jail is like it's definitely pre trial detention and the
(17:52):
only purpose of people who are in jail is like
for them to hold you until your next court did.
And um, I'm just a own phone calls and like
I text people. I used to work on my art show,
Um now it's done. I'm still working on my book. Um,
I'm also doing my own podcast. Uh. Just like taking
(18:12):
full advantage of this tablets. I have this video app,
so I always have something going on. You have a
telephone with you now you can text and stuff. No,
I have like a tablet, so I don't have like
free access to the Internet app but I have messaging
and this is how I video you and I have
like access to the news, but no social media and
(18:33):
no Google but like very limited. This is Paris. I
had a question just backtracking to the hotels. What stood
out for me in the Netflix show is how in
(18:54):
the hell did you check into these hotels and charter
planes without a function in credit card? Because I know,
like for me, if I walk into a hotel and
I don't have a card that can swipe, They're not
letting me in. I don't even think Paris a Hilton
hotel would let us check in without a functioning card.
(19:15):
So how did that all go down? Because that was
like very peculiar. I think Netflix is a dramatized version
of events and it's not like really how it happened.
Usually I don't know. For example, Hope, but the leve
On Howard, I did check in for the credit card,
but then that would you know, how like they just
(19:35):
randomly pre authorize your card and like you can't they
cannot ready control it, and like you cannot really control
it either, and like my debit card for example, would
have like dollar dated in it. But if they use
it randomly, I cannot use it anymore and like bank
cannot fix it. So um, I would just like make
(19:57):
an arrangement for them where I would like wire them them,
and I did do that. So I think it's like
a big misconception that I did not like pay eleven Howard.
But um no, yeah, yeah, you love you were big
on wiring. He loved to wire money, huh. And I
(20:21):
don't wash the Netflix series my stuff. I only like
watch big bits and pieces, So I'm sure like they
over um exaggerated some parts. But so which parts were
you upset about that they put in that weren't true? Um,
I'm really upset about anything because I don't really see
(20:43):
it as a like it's not a documentary, so it's
just like Shawonda's creative work and it's inspired by my
story and like people should just take it had what
they want to take it. Um, it's not up to
me to like sit here and take it apart based
by pizza like pieces by pieces. So yeah, I just
(21:04):
don't think that's not the purpose of it. I don't
like people ask me if I faked a suicide or
something to not pay like I've never done that. That's
just too crazy. Um, I wouldn't never do that, so
hopefully people don't think that's true. Yeah, that was in
the scene in Los Angeles where you went to Passages.
(21:26):
I'm just curious, how how did you like Passages because
I know a few people who have been there, and
the Malibu rehab seen is quite calm could at times.
I'm just wondering, Um, did you feel it helped you? Well?
I didn't go there like for any addiction, really, but
(21:50):
I like some people there who I knew. Um, I
don't know. I don't feel like anybody can really help
you unless you want to help yourself. I agree. Yeah,
I don't feel like it doesn't matter where you go
to to like the best rehab or the worst, unless
like you decide for yourself, like what to do with
(22:10):
your life. Like it's just kind of secondary. It's a
nice place, So it's nice, right, And you were all
sis staying at the Chateau Mormont in l A. Right, Yes,
did you like that hotel? Yes? So the employees are
very very nice there. Actually, like been reading all this
(22:32):
coverage that most of the people have been laid off
and like they did not get paid anything. And I
find like, this is very frustrating because I felt like
this is what made the place, and because the place
is whatever, it's pretty, but it's like you just have
so many beautiful properties around the world. This is not
what stands out about the Shadow always like the people
who worked there. I don't know exactly who who's been
(22:56):
like laid off, but just like thinking back, it's probably
not the same as it used to be. Would you
ever have thought that you would have a television show
about your life? No, absolutely not. It definitely was the
purpose of the whole thing. But just life works out
(23:17):
like in crazy ways. Have you been getting lots of
fan mail? I definitely was, Yes, I get a ton
of letters, Uh, all kinds of crasy stuff, a lot
of like marriage proposals, definitely more Before I was like
churched with any crimes, which is interesting, any good ones
(23:39):
that you like? Uh, I don't think. I'm like I'm
willing to go that route yet. Would you want to
get married and hadn't have a family one day? Um,
I don't know. I honestly don't care if I get married,
Like it's really not like a goal I'm saying for myself,
(24:00):
like maybe later I'm just kind of trying to focus
like on sorting out what I have going on right now.
And um, I think if anything, I've learned, like planning
long term like often does not really work out the
way the way it's supposed to. So, like I had
so many plans. I had like a five year plan
to any year plan, and like, look at me now,
(24:23):
and what is your plan when you go re enter
the real world? Are you still wanting to do this
social club? No? Absolutely not. I just think like I've
been through so much and it was a nice idea,
but I started it when I was like twenty three,
and I just can't ignore the experiences that I've been through.
(24:47):
I don't feel like the world just really needs another
social art club. And it's so interesting because since you
have been away, New York has opened up so any
different members only clubs. So you were you were on
the right track, I know, right. I mean it is
(25:09):
good for them, Like I have no hard feelings about it.
I'm just not interested like in pursuing something like that anymore.
So what what's your plan? Well, I have like multiple
projects I'm working on right now, and I would love
to like do something with criminal justice because I feel
like I have this unique position where I've been for
(25:34):
the system and I know exactly what's wrong, and I
have so many ideas how it can be fixed. It's
like I never said that the system is bad or
there should be no jails. I just feel like the
rules should be there, but they can be so much better,
And I think I should definitely use my voice to
um like to advocate for a change, because it's just
(25:55):
so crazy. There's so many people who think, like, oh,
the government, they just know what they're doing, but they
don't really because it's not really them sitting there a
day today and nobody cares or listens to the people,
like to the inmates. M So I'm like trying not
to waste, waste the opportunity, and they're just like so
many mistakes, Like it could have been so much better.
(26:18):
Has anything crazy happened in there with any of the
other inmates. I mean crazy things happened all the time here,
just like it's kind of the same as real life,
Like I saw, I saw a lot. I saw, like
I don't know, just girls like losing custody of their kids,
losing jobs just because they were like in jail for
two or three weeks if somebody made a mistake. Oh,
(26:41):
I don't know, Like they're just all kinds of scenarios
playing themselves out, like on daily basis, how long have
you been been there in this place? I've been here
since June last year. Are you so bored? Um, I'm
(27:01):
like bored of this lifestyle. But I'm not like Bord
on daily basis. Just I don't know, maybe like I'm
just fake busy, but I always have something going on
and I know, but I cannot wait to get out
of here. I would not recommend this to anybody. Do
you have friends or family that come visit you? Yes,
(27:23):
well my family is in Germany, but I have lots
of friends in New York and uh yeah, I give
visits all the time. Do they let you visit face
to face or do you have to do it behind
the glass. It's behind the glass because of COVID. What
has been the hardest part Yeah, yeah, um, I don't.
(27:48):
I don't really feel strongly about visits because it's just
thirty minutes. So I just like video chat with people
a lot. Mm hmm. What's the hardest part about being there?
It just like not being able to do anything for myself,
so like I have to ask other people for everything,
(28:09):
Like I have to rely on everybody. Like if I
want to get like a Vogue, I cannot get it myself.
I have to ask somebody to like make sure they
actually do it. And it's really frustrating. I don't feel
like this should be in it, this experience like this,
it's just yeah, it's just like it's just like people
should be self sufficient, Like like I'm lucky, I have
(28:33):
a huge support system, and I have like a lot
of people who do a lot of things for me,
and like I literally would not be able to do
anything from here if I didn't have their help. And
I'm just like thinking, like looking at other girls who
it's like who is responsible for you now, like their
kids or their parents or like their boyfriends. They shouldn't
really be like that. You should not become a burdener
(28:54):
on everybody who's like who you surround yourself with, just
because you're in jail. But there is no way to
do anything for yourself in here, Like you cannot get
a job, you cannot go and order anything. You're literally
like you're lying on other people's kindness in a way,
you've made a lot of friends in there. Um, like
(29:18):
I'm a friendly with people, but it's like constantly rotating,
like nobody would stays here for too long. I'm one
of like the longest um saying people here, like people
usually come here or like they just get bailed out,
or like they go up stay to prison, or they
go home. Um yeah, but it's definitely been like fascinating
to see like everybody has a story and uh yeah,
(29:41):
just like a totally different life that I've been exposed to,
Like I would not have had all any of this
experiences had I still been like in New York or
London or Paris, like doing the art club. Do you
plan to come back to New York? Like where? What's
a dream scenario? Where do you want to live when
(30:02):
you get out? Well, yeah, I really, um, I would
stay in New York. Yeah that's kind of the main
goal here. Yeah. I love New York, Like it means
a lot to me. I have a lot of people
who I consider my friends and kind of like my
whole adult life, I lived out like while being in
the city, and I just never already felt home, like
(30:24):
I lived a little bit everywhere. So I like two
years in Paris. I lived in London for like a
little bit, but I never really felt like home anywhere,
like and you know, well I'm in Paris. I always
think like, oh, I just like I can't wait to
go back to New York, while like when I'm in
New York, I don't really like I'm not dying to
go anywhere else. M And what do you think the
(30:47):
biggest misconception is about you? Um? Gosh, I don't know.
I think there are a lot. I guess like I'm
just like this stupidly untitled person. Um. I think I
consider myself like pretty reasonable. I read that you said
that you never told people that you were a German heiress.
(31:11):
Is that true? Yeah, I absolutely never told any such
thing to anybody. And like they just kind of put
the pieces together after the prosecution released, they pressed statement,
all right, I know that you have to go, but
I just wanted to say thank you for coming on
the show and we enjoyed speaking of you. Byana, Byana,
(31:31):
thanks for listening to this is Paris. We love hearing
from you, So leave us a review. Send an email
to Paris at my heart radio dot com. Leave a
voicemail at eight three three eighty seven Paris and follow
us at This is Paris podcast, Follow Paris at Paris Hilton,
and follow Hunter March hosted He's Nightly Bob at Hunter
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