July 17, 2025 • 26 mins
In this intimate BONUS episode of I Choose Me, Julie Benz returns to talk with Jennie about the emotional journey of letting go of motherhood and embracing a new vision for her life. From IVF and old eggs to paparazzi tears and healing workouts, Julie shares with raw honesty what it took to process the grief, find peace and ultimately choose joy.
AND, tune in to hear the story of a “Desperate Housewives” TV icon who completely changed how Julie advocates for herself as an actor.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to I Choose Me. We are going to
jump back into my conversation with Julie Ben's. We ended
up connecting on something that so many people face, whether
or not to have children and what happens if things
(00:24):
don't go as planned. I love sitting down with people
and finding the parallels in our lives. Because my husband Dave,
and I tried to have kids as well. It didn't work. Yeah,
I did the IVF yep. Did you try IVF?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And how long did you try it? Because I was like,
I didn't do it for very long because I couldn't
handle it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We did a handful of rounds. I mean when we
got married, I was forty, So when I got divorced
at thirty four, I knew possibly I was walking away
from my fertility. But I had tried in my late
twenties to get pregnant with my ex husband and it
didn't happen then, so I kind of knew that. I
(01:06):
started accepting the fact that it might not happen for me.
And I remember, like my both my obg y N
and my therapist at the time they wanted me to
freeze eggs, and they also wanted me to freeze embryos.
And I went through that whole process, and I went
(01:27):
through the whole like donor sperm questionnaire, like hair color,
eye color, he wait, like all the all the questions.
And I told my therapist, I was like, you know,
I keep looking for the box that says with the
man who loves me, and there's no box to check
when it comes to a donor sperm, right, And so
(01:47):
I made the choice that I was going to see
what life would bring and not freeze embryos or freeze eggs.
And I thought, you know, because I was like, I
don't I don't want to do it on my own.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just being a mom on my own. Just wasn't it
just wasn't something I wanted to do alone.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I took that risk.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
And then once we got married, we started trying, and
we did a handful of rounds and we made a
couple embryos, and then we did the genetic testing and
they all came back back and basically I remember the
doctor called and was like, you know, you probably all
always had old eggs.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love this conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right, And I remember this so vividly.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I I was really I was crying, and I went
and I was living in West Hollywood at the time,
and I went and walked my dogs and I got
paparazzied walking my dogs, and I'm bowling, but I start
smiling because it's you know, I don't want the paparazzi
to catch me crying. And I'm like smiling and waving,
and then like, I remember that photo ran in some
(03:04):
tabloids saying, you know, you know Dexter star Julie Ben's
outwalking her dogs.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Doesn't she look great?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And I was like, he only knew what I was
going through in that moment. But you know, for me,
we explored other options. And then by that point, I mean,
I was forty four and I really did some soul
searching and was like, first of all, I always thought
(03:33):
I'd be the hot young mom.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
In second, I don't want to be sixty with a teenager.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So you think if Rich my husband and I, if
we were in our thirties, we would have explored other options,
egg donor Saragi, adoption, all of that.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But I think I had.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
To be really real about where I was in my
life and say, like, I mean, having a baby is great,
but they turn into teenagers eventually, and I don't know
if that's sixty that's for me. I don't know if
i'd be a good mom at sixty. I'm gonna be tired. Yeah,
(04:20):
so how old is your husband?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
He's a year younger, that year younger.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And you said he was never married before, so he
didn't have kids, no coming in Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
He's an identical twin and he has two nephews. And
then he has another brother that has a niece and
a nephew and we're very close to them. And then
my best friend has four kids that were the godparents
of so we have a lot of children in our life, right,
So we decided to pivot then and just be like,
let's be let's be the best aunt and uncle and
(04:51):
let's do that.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I love that though. It's admirable that you sat down
and really waited out, because it sounds like like naturally
you wanted to be a mom. You're one of the
people that was like, yeah, sure, I'm going to have
a family, I'm gonna be a mom someday. And then
as your life rolls out, for one reason or another
it doesn't go as you thought it would. Yeah, and
(05:17):
you know, just hearing you say that, you know that
paparazzi experience where you were going through something so painful. Yeah,
and then you had to fake like you were happy.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
It was so surprising, was the photo. Like you could
see like tears coming down my face, but nobody ever
said anything.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I was like, you're a good actress, fake it till
you're feel it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I mean, but a lot of women, you know, struggle
with the same thing, and that decision to change gears
can leave them feeling somehow empty, somehow unuseful, or some
way of like feeling bad about themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
It was I mean, I would say for the first
year after, it was really tough. And I didn't share
it publicly because I'm just not that like, I just
didn't feel comfortable sharing it publicly. And I remember we
would be at dinner with people like friends, like work,
(06:27):
colleagues of my husband's and their wives, and their wives
would be like, oh, you gonna have kids, and I'd
be like no, and they'd be like, oh my god,
you have you have to have children, like you have
to Oh my gosh, the best and they go into
this whole thing, and I started getting to this point
where I would just be like, I can't have children,
and my husband would be like, why.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Are you so mean about it?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And I'm like, because I don't want to have the conversation,
Like I don't want to have to have the conversation
with people that I don't know very well, and it's
the only way I know how to shut them up.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Really, it was just me like I can't have kids,
and they'd be.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Like, oh, yeah, next subject, let's talk about something else. Huh.
So yeah, I know. For me, I had was blessed
with my three daughters in my first marriage or second marriage. Sorry,
now let's get technical. And then with Dave, I felt
like I really wanted to have a child for him
(07:27):
and I felt like he was such a great dad,
and we tried and tried, and then it didn't work,
and I had that period of time where I was like,
it's me, My eggs are old. Yeah. We went so
far as to have his sperm checked and he like
got the top of the highest rating you can get
and he was like oh yeah, and I was oh
(07:49):
my god, and I was like, Hi, I'm over here
with old eggs. Thinks that feels great. But that whole
period of time of just like letting that sink in
and finding your way around the shame or the disappointment
and the morning honestly, the grief.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It was the There was definitely a lot of grief
and a lot of mourning. And then I made a
very superficial deal with myself, very vain, superficial deal. Tell me,
I said, well, if I'm not going to have kids,
then I'm going to be the sixty year old with washboard.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Apps and Hi, I've seen your apps.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And that's when I really I started working out a
lot because I was like, all right, I can't have kids,
then I'm going to have a killer body. And sometimes
you just have to make whatever that superficial deal is
with yourself, and god, it just sounds I mean, it
sounds terrible.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But it helped me. It doesn't sound terrible.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It helped me focus on something else and it helped.
And it also helped that my best friend had four
kids and that's a lot of kids.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, so you were like, maybe this is such a
this is a good thing.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Outa Yeah, like I can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Out, Yeah, and you have this freedom and this like
sort of care free ability with your husband. Yeah, you know,
there's some things. Once I settled into the fact, I
was like, we're going to just have so much fun
together and it's not gonna because it does. The kids
(09:30):
bring stress in and there's so much responsibility and it's
just so layered when you have a family and you're young,
you're raising them.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I also don't know how anyone survived the pandemic with
kids at home.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I mean, it was tough just the two of us
that I couldn't even imagine having children and navigating it.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So, you know, I was a little relief.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I mean, yeah, luckily mine we're a little older. But
I did sit and think, ooh, how is this screwing
them up socially and you know with their development? Yeah,
it was doing a number on everybody. So I love
(10:22):
that your relationship is thriving, Thank you, and everybody would
want to know the secret to that success. And it
sounds like it's kind of you guys allowing each other
to be independent. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I think it's just we allow each other to be
who we are, right, you know what I mean, and
we support each other through it.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I love each other.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And we I mean, we did do therapy early on
to help with our communication, and I had to learn
that there's a tone in my voice that if I
hit it, he can't hear me right, and it's more
(11:08):
destructive than helpful. So now when I get upset, I
write it down and I hand it to him, but
I write it in funny ways, like sometimes I'll do
tiny little post it notes, like one word on each
little thing and put it up all in the wall,
(11:29):
and then they make him read it out loud, or
I'll send him an email, or you know, I'll do
something and then he has to read it out loud
to me.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Just to let you know that he's really understanding when
you're hearing me. So that is an interesting hack. Yeah,
for those of us that struggle with communications, confrontation, and marriages,
that's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, it works really well. I might try it, especially
the post it notes. That always makes him laugh when
he sees like a bunch of posts and.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He's like, oh, you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Need something better than the text message.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know what. They don't like those, they don't like
those text messages. I want to talk a little bit
about your work, because I was a huge fan. As
I mentioned of Dexter, your character Rita, thank you, you
were so good. Thank you and you did more makeup
right or you were very.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Season one no makeup at all? Right, it was amazing.
I remember it was freeing.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, look at this beautiful natural woman.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It was no hair, no makeup, and it was like,
for the first time I got to experience what it
was like to be a guy on set.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, like my call time was rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh no more two hours earlier.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
It was amazing. Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Season one, Rita was my favorite and the I just
loved her so much. And of course then she had
to grow and change, and then they had to have
hair and makeup calls and.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh man, well that subject matter was dense, tough, heavy, yeah,
really scary and just like your character alone had her
all her own stuff. Yes, but then she's married to
a serial killer, which she never knew, she never knew,
so that did you ever? You know, we are all
(13:19):
part of the characters we play, I think as actress
as it comes from somewhere inside of us. And did
you ever take her home? Did you ever have trouble
leaving work and keeping work at work? That was kind
of energy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So when I was playing Rita, I you know, during
the months we would film, I was definitely more emotional
in life, Like I would be crying over like a
coffee commercial or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Things would hit me more deeply than normal. But I think.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So season one, I was still married to my ex
husband and that's when I was making the decision to
get divorced. And so I think in a weird way,
Rita helped me.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, you know what way do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
First of all, having a bit of job security stability. Second,
I think she was so damaged and beaten down that
and you know, my ex husband was not abusive at all,
like that is not But I really could relate to her.
(14:39):
Feeling that that apology after every sentence they like I'm
I'm sorry, you know that I don't know. That really
resonated with me, and I was like, I don't, I don't.
I don't want to be that, you know. So I
(15:00):
think in some ways she gave me the strength to
really look at my life and be like I have
you know, I need to move I need to get out,
I need to move on.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I can see how she would motivate that because what
she endured, you know. The character was so strong, yeah,
but so weak at the same time, so vulnerable and
or like a raw nerve. So it makes perfect sense
how you would go home feeling like you could cry
at any commercial. It makes such sense. But that's a
(15:38):
really must have been a really interesting time in your life.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It was, and I really loved playing her, like I
really and I loved working with Michael. Just being on
the show was It was amazing because coming off of
the WB for Buffy and Angel, which even though we
(16:03):
were doing incredible work over there, most of Hollywood wasn't
really looking at it or recognizing right it was considered
a teen show. So I felt like Rita was my
time to finally be a woman, yeah, and be a grown.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Up and work on good material, yeah, like really good writing.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And I thought it was so funny because I remember
during season one, everybody was I was getting applauded for
going on camera with no makeup on, and I was like,
I mean, I run around my house like this, like.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It isn't this a very old deal.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I'm not a completely wipe.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I was like, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean, but people like everyone's like it's so amazing,
And I was like, so amazing because I don't have
to go in two hours earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I know, they killed Rita very upsetting. What season was
it four? Season four and four and you said that
you wished you had advocated for her more, Yes, what
would you have said?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
So my opinion is season one and two I had
very strong story arcs, and then one of our writers
left and he was the one who really captured the
voice of Dexter and Rita. And then in season three
and especially in season four, I mean, I just the
(17:34):
storyline was just not there. But that's the nature of
episodic television. Like some years you have a great storyline
and then some years you have to take a backseat
while other actors get.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Their great storyline.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And I just wish I had advocated more for her.
I wish I had stood up more and you know,
challenge them to come up with more creative things to
do with her rather than just accept, well, this is
(18:10):
the nature of the beast. And I had a great
season one. In season two, there were other actors on
the show who didn't like their season one in season
two who all of a sudden now were being elevated
during season three, so.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It was like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
So I was like, but maybe I should have challenged
the writers more and said, hey, guys, this is kind
of silly, like can I do something like can we
come up with something a little more interesting?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So did you not feel like it was your place
to do that or did you not feel comfortable?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Meanwhile, I watched other actors during season one and season
two do the same thing, like speak up, advocate for
their characters, and they weren't deemed difficult, but I just was.
I just didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Oh? I mean obviously being the youngest child in the family,
I think, and just being the good girl.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, I've learned since then that there's a way of
doing it. I mean I watched when I worked on
Desperate Housewives. After I was doing a scene with Marsha
Cross and I was a huge fan of the show,
(19:43):
so I knew the characters inside and out, and we
were rehearsing this scene and Marsha's like, this doesn't make
any sense, and I was just I mean, I was
just recurring on the show, so I was just sitting
there and she was talking to the director and she's like,
this doesn't make any sense for my character, and she
was going through the reasons why, and then she turned
to me and she's like, what do you think? And
(20:03):
I'm like, you are one hundred percent correct. It makes
the scene makes no sense for your character. And I
went through it because I'd been such a huge fan,
and I watched them. They went off and then they
shut down set for like an hour and they rewrote
it and they called us down to the writer's room
and they read it to us and it was so
much better, and it just made it made her storyline
(20:30):
so much fuller and richer. And I watched how she
did that. It wasn't she didn't raise her voice. It
didn't come from a place of anger or frustration. She
just really was like, this just doesn't make sense. And
they heard her and they changed the script. It was incredible,
(20:52):
and I was like, Oh, that's how you do because
I always thought speaking up.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Would be confrontational.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So yeah, I've seen it all different ways in my career,
but you're absolutely right. It's just better when you are
calm and you know what you're talking about, you know,
and it makes sense. It makes sense, and it's a collaboration.
It's not like you suck.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean I've shown up in all different ways since
I told the writers off a few times in my past.
But now it's just so much easier to work together,
right and hopefully you have that team right.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And I wish I had had that experience before Dexter. Yeah,
you know, because I'm Buffy and Angel. The writing was
incredible and we just said the words right like there
wasn't especially my character was amazing, Like I never I
never had a moment that felt false as the carecharacter,
(22:00):
so you didn't have to say yeah, so I didn't
really know how.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah that's and so moving forward in your career, have
you sort of been able to utilize that in your
current work, your recent work? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I mean when I was on Defiance, I remember season one,
my character was the hero of the piece, she was
the mayor, she was the hero she was, and I
really wanted them to you know, I really kept asking
like what's her achilles heel? Like what is it? What's
her deep dark secret? And they're like, but you're the hero.
(22:40):
There's no deep dark secret. You're the hero. So I
remember being on set during the pilot and the prop
guy we're in my character's office and he brings me
a coffee mug and I look at him and I'm like,
how about every time I in here, no matter what
(23:01):
time of day it is, it's a glass of scotch.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Don't bring me coffee, Bring me scotch.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And I created an alcohol problem for wasn't written and
in season two they leaned into it, but it was
me going, I want to give her something. I want
to give her, Like what does she do at night? Yeah,
when the world is falling apart and it's all on
her shoulders to make the decisions.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, because being a hero is hard.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's hard. So she drank.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's genius though. You made your own storyline. Yeah, with
one simple prop change. Yeah, I love that. I just
want to ask you about maybe some advice for women
our age, you know, who are are dealing with the
same things that we're dealing with and the life changes
and all the things. Yeah, what is what is the
(24:00):
piece of advice that you could pass down, pass on
some sort of you know, I believe in you message
that you're so good at giving.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Well, I believe in you. I think there's a couple things. First,
protect your bone density.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
First and foremost.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
By jumping.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You can do it by jumping, you can do it
by walking with a weighted vest. Ye. Do everything you
can to protect your bone density, because that's the most
important thing as we get older, especially as women. And
then I think it's so important to have your alone time,
like the world can get really big and crazy, and
(24:46):
to have that quiet time for yourself and whether it's
meditation or journaling or working out or yeah, or going
for a walk or being out nature, just making sure
you you have those moments to breathe and recenter yourself.
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, you don't really realize it's how important that is
until you do it. Yeah, and then you feel this
sense of like, why haven't I done this sooner?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And there's all types of like breath work apps. There's
I like to do box breathing, me too, really into
the box breathing.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What's your count? Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know I'm good at four.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I try to do seven and then I feel like
I'm gonna die.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So do you do four?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
In hold for four and then out for four, out
for four and hold for four and then in for four.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I try to push it to seven, but that holding
it for seven is like, wait, there's.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Something so magical about If you know what box breathing is,
you're gonna enjoy this. If you don't, you're what are
you talking about? But I breathe in for four, hold
for four, and then breathe out for eight, and there's
something so magical in that last four count of that
eight out breath.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I'm going to try that.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
You go into another space and time. I'm gonna try that,
and it feels scary at first, but it's like it's
like a drug almost.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So all here for the box breathing.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I just think it's so important that you you check
in with yourself yep.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And that's great advice.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And if that means you're gonna cry, then cry let
it out, let it out, let it out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I'm big on that. Feel your feelings, feel your feelings.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yep. That's such great advice, great advice.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I love getting to know you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I'll make you dinner, okay,
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to I Choose Me. We are going to
jump back into my conversation with Julie Ben's. We ended
up connecting on something that so many people face, whether
or not to have children and what happens if things
(00:24):
don't go as planned. I love sitting down with people
and finding the parallels in our lives. Because my husband Dave,
and I tried to have kids as well. It didn't work. Yeah,
I did the IVF yep. Did you try IVF?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And how long did you try it? Because I was like,
I didn't do it for very long because I couldn't
handle it.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We did a handful of rounds. I mean when we
got married, I was forty, So when I got divorced
at thirty four, I knew possibly I was walking away
from my fertility. But I had tried in my late
twenties to get pregnant with my ex husband and it
didn't happen then, so I kind of knew that. I
(01:06):
started accepting the fact that it might not happen for me.
And I remember, like my both my obg y N
and my therapist at the time they wanted me to
freeze eggs, and they also wanted me to freeze embryos.
And I went through that whole process, and I went
(01:27):
through the whole like donor sperm questionnaire, like hair color,
eye color, he wait, like all the all the questions.
And I told my therapist, I was like, you know,
I keep looking for the box that says with the
man who loves me, and there's no box to check
when it comes to a donor sperm, right, And so
(01:47):
I made the choice that I was going to see
what life would bring and not freeze embryos or freeze eggs.
And I thought, you know, because I was like, I
don't I don't want to do it on my own.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just being a mom on my own. Just wasn't it
just wasn't something I wanted to do alone.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I took that risk.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
And then once we got married, we started trying, and
we did a handful of rounds and we made a
couple embryos, and then we did the genetic testing and
they all came back back and basically I remember the
doctor called and was like, you know, you probably all
always had old eggs.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love this conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right, And I remember this so vividly.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I I was really I was crying, and I went
and I was living in West Hollywood at the time,
and I went and walked my dogs and I got
paparazzied walking my dogs, and I'm bowling, but I start
smiling because it's you know, I don't want the paparazzi
to catch me crying. And I'm like smiling and waving,
and then like, I remember that photo ran in some
(03:04):
tabloids saying, you know, you know Dexter star Julie Ben's
outwalking her dogs.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Doesn't she look great?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And I was like, he only knew what I was
going through in that moment. But you know, for me,
we explored other options. And then by that point, I mean,
I was forty four and I really did some soul
searching and was like, first of all, I always thought
(03:33):
I'd be the hot young mom.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
In second, I don't want to be sixty with a teenager.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So you think if Rich my husband and I, if
we were in our thirties, we would have explored other options,
egg donor Saragi, adoption, all of that.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But I think I had.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
To be really real about where I was in my
life and say, like, I mean, having a baby is great,
but they turn into teenagers eventually, and I don't know
if that's sixty that's for me. I don't know if
i'd be a good mom at sixty. I'm gonna be tired. Yeah,
(04:20):
so how old is your husband?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
He's a year younger, that year younger.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And you said he was never married before, so he
didn't have kids, no coming in Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
He's an identical twin and he has two nephews. And
then he has another brother that has a niece and
a nephew and we're very close to them. And then
my best friend has four kids that were the godparents
of so we have a lot of children in our life, right,
So we decided to pivot then and just be like,
let's be let's be the best aunt and uncle and
(04:51):
let's do that.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I love that though. It's admirable that you sat down
and really waited out, because it sounds like like naturally
you wanted to be a mom. You're one of the
people that was like, yeah, sure, I'm going to have
a family, I'm gonna be a mom someday. And then
as your life rolls out, for one reason or another
it doesn't go as you thought it would. Yeah, and
(05:17):
you know, just hearing you say that, you know that
paparazzi experience where you were going through something so painful. Yeah,
and then you had to fake like you were happy.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
It was so surprising, was the photo. Like you could
see like tears coming down my face, but nobody ever
said anything.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I was like, you're a good actress, fake it till
you're feel it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I mean, but a lot of women, you know, struggle
with the same thing, and that decision to change gears
can leave them feeling somehow empty, somehow unuseful, or some
way of like feeling bad about themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
It was I mean, I would say for the first
year after, it was really tough. And I didn't share
it publicly because I'm just not that like, I just
didn't feel comfortable sharing it publicly. And I remember we
would be at dinner with people like friends, like work,
(06:27):
colleagues of my husband's and their wives, and their wives
would be like, oh, you gonna have kids, and I'd
be like no, and they'd be like, oh my god,
you have you have to have children, like you have
to Oh my gosh, the best and they go into
this whole thing, and I started getting to this point
where I would just be like, I can't have children,
and my husband would be like, why.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Are you so mean about it?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And I'm like, because I don't want to have the conversation,
Like I don't want to have to have the conversation
with people that I don't know very well, and it's
the only way I know how to shut them up.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Really, it was just me like I can't have kids,
and they'd be.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Like, oh, yeah, next subject, let's talk about something else. Huh.
So yeah, I know. For me, I had was blessed
with my three daughters in my first marriage or second marriage. Sorry,
now let's get technical. And then with Dave, I felt
like I really wanted to have a child for him
(07:27):
and I felt like he was such a great dad,
and we tried and tried, and then it didn't work,
and I had that period of time where I was like,
it's me, My eggs are old. Yeah. We went so
far as to have his sperm checked and he like
got the top of the highest rating you can get
and he was like oh yeah, and I was oh
(07:49):
my god, and I was like, Hi, I'm over here
with old eggs. Thinks that feels great. But that whole
period of time of just like letting that sink in
and finding your way around the shame or the disappointment
and the morning honestly, the grief.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It was the There was definitely a lot of grief
and a lot of mourning. And then I made a
very superficial deal with myself, very vain, superficial deal. Tell me,
I said, well, if I'm not going to have kids,
then I'm going to be the sixty year old with washboard.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Apps and Hi, I've seen your apps.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And that's when I really I started working out a
lot because I was like, all right, I can't have kids,
then I'm going to have a killer body. And sometimes
you just have to make whatever that superficial deal is
with yourself, and god, it just sounds I mean, it
sounds terrible.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But it helped me. It doesn't sound terrible.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It helped me focus on something else and it helped.
And it also helped that my best friend had four
kids and that's a lot of kids.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, so you were like, maybe this is such a
this is a good thing.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Outa Yeah, like I can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Out, Yeah, and you have this freedom and this like
sort of care free ability with your husband. Yeah, you know,
there's some things. Once I settled into the fact, I
was like, we're going to just have so much fun
together and it's not gonna because it does. The kids
(09:30):
bring stress in and there's so much responsibility and it's
just so layered when you have a family and you're young,
you're raising them.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I also don't know how anyone survived the pandemic with
kids at home.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I mean, it was tough just the two of us
that I couldn't even imagine having children and navigating it.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So, you know, I was a little relief.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I mean, yeah, luckily mine we're a little older. But
I did sit and think, ooh, how is this screwing
them up socially and you know with their development? Yeah,
it was doing a number on everybody. So I love
(10:22):
that your relationship is thriving, Thank you, and everybody would
want to know the secret to that success. And it
sounds like it's kind of you guys allowing each other
to be independent. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I think it's just we allow each other to be
who we are, right, you know what I mean, and
we support each other through it.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I love each other.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And we I mean, we did do therapy early on
to help with our communication, and I had to learn
that there's a tone in my voice that if I
hit it, he can't hear me right, and it's more
(11:08):
destructive than helpful. So now when I get upset, I
write it down and I hand it to him, but
I write it in funny ways, like sometimes I'll do
tiny little post it notes, like one word on each
little thing and put it up all in the wall,
(11:29):
and then they make him read it out loud, or
I'll send him an email, or you know, I'll do
something and then he has to read it out loud
to me.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Just to let you know that he's really understanding when
you're hearing me. So that is an interesting hack. Yeah,
for those of us that struggle with communications, confrontation, and marriages,
that's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, it works really well. I might try it, especially
the post it notes. That always makes him laugh when
he sees like a bunch of posts and.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He's like, oh, you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Need something better than the text message.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know what. They don't like those, they don't like
those text messages. I want to talk a little bit
about your work, because I was a huge fan. As
I mentioned of Dexter, your character Rita, thank you, you
were so good. Thank you and you did more makeup
right or you were very.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Season one no makeup at all? Right, it was amazing.
I remember it was freeing.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, look at this beautiful natural woman.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It was no hair, no makeup, and it was like,
for the first time I got to experience what it
was like to be a guy on set.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, like my call time was rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh no more two hours earlier.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
It was amazing. Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Season one, Rita was my favorite and the I just
loved her so much. And of course then she had
to grow and change, and then they had to have
hair and makeup calls and.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh man, well that subject matter was dense, tough, heavy, yeah,
really scary and just like your character alone had her
all her own stuff. Yes, but then she's married to
a serial killer, which she never knew, she never knew,
so that did you ever? You know, we are all
(13:19):
part of the characters we play, I think as actress
as it comes from somewhere inside of us. And did
you ever take her home? Did you ever have trouble
leaving work and keeping work at work? That was kind
of energy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So when I was playing Rita, I you know, during
the months we would film, I was definitely more emotional
in life, Like I would be crying over like a
coffee commercial or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Things would hit me more deeply than normal. But I think.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So season one, I was still married to my ex
husband and that's when I was making the decision to
get divorced. And so I think in a weird way,
Rita helped me.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, you know what way do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
First of all, having a bit of job security stability. Second,
I think she was so damaged and beaten down that
and you know, my ex husband was not abusive at all,
like that is not But I really could relate to her.
(14:39):
Feeling that that apology after every sentence they like I'm
I'm sorry, you know that I don't know. That really
resonated with me, and I was like, I don't, I don't.
I don't want to be that, you know. So I
(15:00):
think in some ways she gave me the strength to
really look at my life and be like I have
you know, I need to move I need to get out,
I need to move on.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I can see how she would motivate that because what
she endured, you know. The character was so strong, yeah,
but so weak at the same time, so vulnerable and
or like a raw nerve. So it makes perfect sense
how you would go home feeling like you could cry
at any commercial. It makes such sense. But that's a
(15:38):
really must have been a really interesting time in your life.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It was, and I really loved playing her, like I
really and I loved working with Michael. Just being on
the show was It was amazing because coming off of
the WB for Buffy and Angel, which even though we
(16:03):
were doing incredible work over there, most of Hollywood wasn't
really looking at it or recognizing right it was considered
a teen show. So I felt like Rita was my
time to finally be a woman, yeah, and be a grown.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Up and work on good material, yeah, like really good writing.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And I thought it was so funny because I remember
during season one, everybody was I was getting applauded for
going on camera with no makeup on, and I was like,
I mean, I run around my house like this, like.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It isn't this a very old deal.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I'm not a completely wipe.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I was like, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean, but people like everyone's like it's so amazing,
And I was like, so amazing because I don't have
to go in two hours earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I know, they killed Rita very upsetting. What season was
it four? Season four and four and you said that
you wished you had advocated for her more, Yes, what
would you have said?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
So my opinion is season one and two I had
very strong story arcs, and then one of our writers
left and he was the one who really captured the
voice of Dexter and Rita. And then in season three
and especially in season four, I mean, I just the
(17:34):
storyline was just not there. But that's the nature of
episodic television. Like some years you have a great storyline
and then some years you have to take a backseat
while other actors get.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Their great storyline.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And I just wish I had advocated more for her.
I wish I had stood up more and you know,
challenge them to come up with more creative things to
do with her rather than just accept, well, this is
(18:10):
the nature of the beast. And I had a great
season one. In season two, there were other actors on
the show who didn't like their season one in season
two who all of a sudden now were being elevated
during season three, so.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It was like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
So I was like, but maybe I should have challenged
the writers more and said, hey, guys, this is kind
of silly, like can I do something like can we
come up with something a little more interesting?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So did you not feel like it was your place
to do that or did you not feel comfortable?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Meanwhile, I watched other actors during season one and season
two do the same thing, like speak up, advocate for
their characters, and they weren't deemed difficult, but I just was.
I just didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Oh? I mean obviously being the youngest child in the family,
I think, and just being the good girl.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, I've learned since then that there's a way of
doing it. I mean I watched when I worked on
Desperate Housewives. After I was doing a scene with Marsha
Cross and I was a huge fan of the show,
(19:43):
so I knew the characters inside and out, and we
were rehearsing this scene and Marsha's like, this doesn't make
any sense, and I was just I mean, I was
just recurring on the show, so I was just sitting
there and she was talking to the director and she's like,
this doesn't make any sense for my character, and she
was going through the reasons why, and then she turned
to me and she's like, what do you think? And
(20:03):
I'm like, you are one hundred percent correct. It makes
the scene makes no sense for your character. And I
went through it because I'd been such a huge fan,
and I watched them. They went off and then they
shut down set for like an hour and they rewrote
it and they called us down to the writer's room
and they read it to us and it was so
much better, and it just made it made her storyline
(20:30):
so much fuller and richer. And I watched how she
did that. It wasn't she didn't raise her voice. It
didn't come from a place of anger or frustration. She
just really was like, this just doesn't make sense. And
they heard her and they changed the script. It was incredible,
(20:52):
and I was like, Oh, that's how you do because
I always thought speaking up.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Would be confrontational.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So yeah, I've seen it all different ways in my career,
but you're absolutely right. It's just better when you are
calm and you know what you're talking about, you know,
and it makes sense. It makes sense, and it's a collaboration.
It's not like you suck.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean I've shown up in all different ways since
I told the writers off a few times in my past.
But now it's just so much easier to work together,
right and hopefully you have that team right.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And I wish I had had that experience before Dexter. Yeah,
you know, because I'm Buffy and Angel. The writing was
incredible and we just said the words right like there
wasn't especially my character was amazing, Like I never I
never had a moment that felt false as the carecharacter,
(22:00):
so you didn't have to say yeah, so I didn't
really know how.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah that's and so moving forward in your career, have
you sort of been able to utilize that in your
current work, your recent work? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I mean when I was on Defiance, I remember season one,
my character was the hero of the piece, she was
the mayor, she was the hero she was, and I
really wanted them to you know, I really kept asking
like what's her achilles heel? Like what is it? What's
her deep dark secret? And they're like, but you're the hero.
(22:40):
There's no deep dark secret. You're the hero. So I
remember being on set during the pilot and the prop
guy we're in my character's office and he brings me
a coffee mug and I look at him and I'm like,
how about every time I in here, no matter what
(23:01):
time of day it is, it's a glass of scotch.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Don't bring me coffee, Bring me scotch.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And I created an alcohol problem for wasn't written and
in season two they leaned into it, but it was
me going, I want to give her something. I want
to give her, Like what does she do at night? Yeah,
when the world is falling apart and it's all on
her shoulders to make the decisions.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, because being a hero is hard.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's hard. So she drank.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's genius though. You made your own storyline. Yeah, with
one simple prop change. Yeah, I love that. I just
want to ask you about maybe some advice for women
our age, you know, who are are dealing with the
same things that we're dealing with and the life changes
and all the things. Yeah, what is what is the
(24:00):
piece of advice that you could pass down, pass on
some sort of you know, I believe in you message
that you're so good at giving.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Well, I believe in you. I think there's a couple things. First,
protect your bone density.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
First and foremost.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
By jumping.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You can do it by jumping, you can do it
by walking with a weighted vest. Ye. Do everything you
can to protect your bone density, because that's the most
important thing as we get older, especially as women. And
then I think it's so important to have your alone time,
like the world can get really big and crazy, and
(24:46):
to have that quiet time for yourself and whether it's
meditation or journaling or working out or yeah, or going
for a walk or being out nature, just making sure
you you have those moments to breathe and recenter yourself.
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, you don't really realize it's how important that is
until you do it. Yeah, and then you feel this
sense of like, why haven't I done this sooner?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And there's all types of like breath work apps. There's
I like to do box breathing, me too, really into
the box breathing.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What's your count? Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know I'm good at four.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I try to do seven and then I feel like
I'm gonna die.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So do you do four?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
In hold for four and then out for four, out
for four and hold for four and then in for four.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I try to push it to seven, but that holding
it for seven is like, wait, there's.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Something so magical about If you know what box breathing is,
you're gonna enjoy this. If you don't, you're what are
you talking about? But I breathe in for four, hold
for four, and then breathe out for eight, and there's
something so magical in that last four count of that
eight out breath.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I'm going to try that.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
You go into another space and time. I'm gonna try that,
and it feels scary at first, but it's like it's
like a drug almost.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So all here for the box breathing.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I just think it's so important that you you check
in with yourself yep.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And that's great advice.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And if that means you're gonna cry, then cry let
it out, let it out, let it out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I'm big on that. Feel your feelings, feel your feelings.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yep. That's such great advice, great advice.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I love getting to know you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I'll make you dinner, okay,
Host
Jennie Garth
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