December 16, 2025 • 52 mins
Elizabeth Smart joins Jennie to share an extraordinary story of choosing hope and growth while rebuilding her life after an unfathomable kidnapping and the many challenges that followed. Her new book, Detours, is a powerful reminder that healing from life’s traumas isn’t linear... but it is possible, one intentional choice at a time.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make, and today I am going to
introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single
day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen
(00:23):
years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and
held her for grueling nine months. They took her as
their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she
knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling
you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is
here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices
(00:46):
she has made since her rescue, the choice to not
only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours,
Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with
the help of what she calls rest stops along the way,
we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will
(01:07):
certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please
welcome Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to
say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention
your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right,
how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm
all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every
time I kind of think like the retelling of my
story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along.
And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no,
people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough
(01:50):
from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent
a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors
and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how
I realized that when you share your story, you give
permission to other people to share their stories. Let you
(02:11):
talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other
people to share their trauma. And so then when this
opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on
a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I
would be on. This is great.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to
continue to be heard because it's an important one. You
had a terrible thing happened to you early on in
your life. I remember watching in real time as the
news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was
gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a
(02:46):
new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're
not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I
want to just focus on your path forward.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
In fact, you said that you don't want your book
or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma
dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you
mean by that, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Just that this book is not meant to dive into
the gory details of what went on. I mean, I
feel like my first book was the retelling of my
story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably
ever go into on a public stage. And this book
is different. This is not my first book, this is
(03:32):
not my story. This is more trying to really identify
the steps that I took that have allowed me to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So this is very important for those nine months back
in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you
had to learn to be strategically silent as a form
of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're
choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you
(04:03):
consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield
to now your voice being sort of your superpower.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had
so many mentors to look up to, so many people
that I admire, and my family has been certainly every
member of my family has been one of those mentors
and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually,
I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt
(04:34):
like I felt like it was days later, but now
I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was
flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work
on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and
every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like
he was going up to our capital to law before it.
(04:55):
And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared
or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families.
He was talking to the families, trying to provide help,
trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could.
And then he was going to search centers and helping
to do searches for other people. So I had the
(05:17):
incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents,
my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the
importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you
borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got
it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did
you fill it all the way up full with gas
even though maybe it only came to it half empty?
(05:39):
Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did
you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that
was kind of our family. I don't know just how
they were, And so I never thought that, I mean,
I would give back simply by telling my story. But
(05:59):
when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know,
was the better part of a decade later, after I
was rescued and finally shared all of these details that
I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling
like I haven't given any context to this. This just
(06:19):
feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed,
like if all this is going out where I didn't
want to go to begin with, Like it needs to
serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose.
And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my
opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know,
would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like,
(06:40):
little by little, I don't think he ever tried to
like pull me into it, but just his questions and
his example just kind of helped lead me in through
shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I
was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more
like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's
out there, so I'm yes.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people
go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined
by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself
by your strength and your life after the event. How
did you get there? What were the mental steps that
took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from
(07:25):
the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter,
the wife, the mom.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So I feel like that's really like one of the
core of what this book is. And I mean it
starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life.
I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we
all have this image of how we see our life
laid out in front of us. We have like this
this road, if you will, of what our life, where
(07:52):
our life is going to take us. And I haven't
met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right
sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something.
And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay
to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that
(08:13):
you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents
they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I
could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married.
I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact.
And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all
(08:34):
moved on with our lives. But at the same time,
like there is some grief around like holidays or special
events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely,
you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths,
grieve the life that you you thought you were going
(08:56):
to have, but it's also important to not just stay
in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong
with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But
you need to find your way forward. You need to
find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just
as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower,
(09:19):
maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like
there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes
maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I know you have a strong religious belief system that
you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people
believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or
traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny,
that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to
reference your source has chosen this path for you, and
(09:52):
if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking,
you will overcome it. My question here is, in your
years of healing, did you ever question that faith or
did you ever or did you just accept that this
was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had.
I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith
that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe
I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know,
but I also just feel like for me, like belief
is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's
(10:34):
word for it, Like I have to know something before
I believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right,
I mean I wasn't either.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's
happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did
I always just think that was the plan for my life?
I guess I still as a child and still now
I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by,
I want to believe that he loves us. And if
he loves us, I don't think he would say you're
(11:06):
going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to
go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're
gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't
believe that a loving God would want that for us
in our own I think other people make decisions, and
we're all free to make our own decisions. I think
(11:28):
God always wants the best for us, and we can
let him in as much or as little as we
want into our lives. And I think that you know,
if you do let him in, you can I think
easier find your way forward easier than if you just
(11:49):
shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about
that before, and I was never like a real faith believer.
I didn't feel like I had that support. But once
I decided that I was missing faith in my life,
it just really changed everything. I felt so so much
more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know,
(12:14):
so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back
on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I
think that's what we all should do as we get
older and kind of define what it is that we want.
I think that's so admirable.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and
I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something.
I'm putting myself in your position right now now that
you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly
at night? How do you sleep in the next room
to your babies and not just lose your mind with
worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever
(12:57):
sleeping through a night after what happened to you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember
just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat
to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my
heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting
for it to like settle back down into my chest
and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't
know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like,
(13:23):
there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay
with this and I feel like I do need to
know where they're at. I need to know who they're with,
like I need to. I just I need to know
what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I
don't think I could function because I just be a
(13:44):
hot mess all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what
you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was
just the one thing for me as a mom. And
then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I
just my heart goes out to what that must be like.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
It's you know, it's good that I have my husband
here to be the voice of reason.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes
you need that voice of reason to get you to
just calm down do you teach your kids about your past,
about what happened, and how do you do that without
allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their
future or their fear.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So one of the I wish I came up with this.
I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not.
But one of the best pieces of parent and advice
I was given was when your kids start asking you questions,
that's the right time to start talking about it. And
remember I was given that advice before even my first
was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice.
(14:57):
I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure
there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're
going to use the correct body part names, like I'm
not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like
penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow
or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because
for me, like as a kid growing up, I was
just like oh, but so like I had all these
(15:23):
ideas of how I was going to parent my children,
and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm
going to give them like the answers, like I won't
be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's
conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing
me to speaking to my oldest when she was three
years old about them, because she started asking questions. I
(15:45):
was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm
not ready to go.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
How does she know at three years old to ask
questions about it.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I was getting ready one day to go to a
parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going?
Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed
down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like,
why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble.
I was like no, I was like, I'm going down
there to make sure that people who do bad things
(16:11):
don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things
do they do? She's like why are you going? Did
they do something to you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
She's curious about everything.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So I mean that did end up me talking about
what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't
it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really
started off as you know, a long time ago, when
I was very little, there was a man and woman
who came in and took me and they hurt me,
and they hurt me for a long time. But now
they're in prison, so I want to make sure they
(16:42):
stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was
kind of that first conversation with her. But then as
as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well.
And like, you know, when I say no to things
that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you
remember what my job is. My job is to keep
you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting
(17:05):
you do this because this is not safe.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids,
but I can imagine it being double hard for you
because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know,
sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as
they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those
questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the
documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from
kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's
gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth.
And I think that that's you're going about it the
(17:49):
right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes
I feel like I in sort of create more fear
in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies
out there. But also at the same time, I think
you need to be afraid. You need to have a
certain level of fear in order to remember to keep
(18:10):
yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going
to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I think for me it's very important that I mean
all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong
and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to
always be polite. I was always raised to you know,
respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it
was very hard for me to say no. So I
(18:37):
want them to feel like they can fight back, that
they can say no, that they have my permission to
not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate
with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand
up for themselves and that all back them up. So,
I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or
(19:00):
sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that,
and they turned around and like they defended themselves and
maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the
I don't know the principle or something was like, oh,
you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd
be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and
I want her to feel strong, and I want her
to know that nobody has the right to touch her
(19:22):
and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone.
I've heard this example given so many times, and I
think it's such a good example. If you look at
the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you
would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator
with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the
(19:44):
prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as
human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't
get into that elevator, we will still do it because
we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to
appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Don't want to make it awkward.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings
in our gut, the little voice in the back of
our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me
being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid.
Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And
as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help
you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones,
no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier
than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious,
how did you find the right people after all this
to help you navigate these detours as you call them.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So for me, it was just it was I mean,
it was finding people who just liked me for me.
Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart
or because of the past, or because I got extra
attention or anything like that. They just they liked me
(21:08):
for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband,
he had no idea who I was. He didn't know
my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like,
never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me,
he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah,
I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more.
(21:30):
And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing,
because on the other hand, I had so many kind,
well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know
you must be struggling so much. What would you like
to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you
experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like?
(21:51):
And even though I know they're being kind, it also
just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that
they wanting to like dig in more and more and
more for which again, that was just not something I
wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it
in the past. So that is a I get I
(22:11):
feel like a very basic example of you know, well
meaning people but maybe not the best to be around
versus people that really loved me for me and my
past made no difference to them at all.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid
of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a
way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to
them or some sometimes you can be off putting if
that's what you need to do, but like if they
were close friends and family, like, how did you say,
like I need space from you and I don't want
to discuss this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh,
you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank
you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let
you know if I need to talk about it later,
but I'm okay right now.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And then you just sort of like you like, thin
the weeds a little and find you're right the path
of the little patch of grass that feels right. I'm
so glad that you found your husband. I mean, what
a wonderful gift to have somebody that's walking beside you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah. No, I'm so happy we found each other.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. You call them detours, like I mentioned, you also
call them rock slides, those unexpected events and experiences, whatever
you call them. Those can end up causing a lot
of pain. And you have experienced, you know, some pretty
(23:47):
major detours, from the kidnapping to that phone call from
your dad telling you that he and your mom are
getting a divorce that I'm sure shook you. I'm sure
there have been other painful events in the course of
your life so far. How do you work through that
residual pain, I guess is my question again.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I feel like it it is like going through these
steps in the book, you know, like grieving the loss,
then you know, trying to navigate a new way forward
pursuing connection. So I mean, for instance, in my parents' divorce,
my siblings were going through the same thing, and so
I feel like it brought us together in some ways
(24:30):
that maybe it wouldn't have either otherwise. And listening, I
feel like it gave me like a new understanding and
compassion for other people who would experience the same things.
And you know, I think back to like my childhood
and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced,
and I had no idea what that was. That was
(24:52):
like as a kid, and you know, they'd be like, oh,
I'm going to my mom's house and I'm going to
my dad's house now. And now I'm like, man, I
feel like I can't that sounds awful. I can't imagine.
I mean, yeah, because my parents divorced when I was
an adult. That's terrible. So I still feel like it
gave me compassion and empathy, and you know, it's caused
(25:15):
me to like pursue more connections in my life, meaningful connections.
It forced me into well force is maybe the wrong word,
but before my parents were divorced, i'd say, my relationship
with my dad kind of piggybacked off of my mom
because I talked to my mom so much before they
were divorced that like, if my dad was around, just
(25:37):
be like, oh hey Dad, Yeah, how are you doing? Yep,
We're good, okay, yep. See yeah. But then you know,
when they divorced, like I had to be very intentional
about my relationship with him because it couldn't just piggyback
off my mom anymore because they weren't together anymore. So
I feel like that was a good good I mean,
(25:59):
I mean, yeah, a good thing for me to really
establish my own relationship. But yeah, kind of opened a
different door for you as far as that connection, I think. Yeah.
And then you know, like as you move forward down
these new paths, finding like the joys are the reasons
to be thankful along the time. I mean again, had
(26:19):
I not been kidnapped, you know, I'd like to think
that I would still care as much as I do
about sexual abuse, violence, subduction, domestic violence, I'd love to
think that I care as deeply as I do. But
also I think I probably would have continued living a
life where those conversations were not being had I can
(26:41):
very easily imagine maybing like oh those are terrible, that's
so sad, that's terrible, But that doesn't happen very often.
That doesn't happen to me, So like people who know
what they're doing are already dealing with it, whereas now
I'm like, this is everywhere, Like you want to talk
about an epidemic, like talk about domestic violence or sexual abuse,
(27:03):
like numbers are through the roof.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I think sometimes people are just like, like you said,
it's not happening to me. That's terrible. But there's that also,
that just ability to kind of shut it off because
either it's just so ugly we don't want to look
at it, we don't want to think about it, or
if we do, maybe we'll bring it into our lives
or something exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, So now I'm grateful that it has given me
this empathy and understanding and confecsion and like desire to
want to change is our nation? Our world?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, lit up a passion inside of you that maybe
never would have ignited.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, exactly what do you do.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Though, when your brain reminds you of stories that you
don't want to think about anymore? Like how do you
quiet the those memories or voices inside your mind.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So I feel like there, I mean, I feel like
it's something actually you preach and it's kind of choosing
to take care of yourself or having practices that you
make a part of your life so that when maybe
something does become too much, you can step back and
take a break. Because I think breaks are great. I
think breaks are wonderful.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So makes are the.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Best going for a walk? Is that listening to an
audiobook or a podcast, or a piece of music, or
maybe it's playing music or singing music yourself, or making
a cake, or just doing something that's engaging your senses
in something other than just sitting, like letting those memories
(28:44):
overtake you.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And you've had that, I'm sure, those moments where it's coming,
it's happening, you're starting to swirl down that memory of
a toilet, you know, and those that's when you consciously
are like, Okay, nope, we are going to focus on
something else right now.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, Yes, definitely, I have had those experience.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
That takes such self awareness, I think, and it also
takes a certain amount of strength to It's almost like
training your brain to not think certain things because you
know they're not going to do you any good.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I yeah, I agree completely. I think our brain has
so much power and influence on how we live our
daily lives, and I think it's so important for us
to train our brains to be kind to us because
I think if you just like go down that toilet
bowl of negativity, that is what your brain is going
(29:44):
to say to you. That's just going to make it
even worse and worse. But I think when you find
yourself going down that negative spiral, if you have like
spoken kind words to yourself repeatedly, and you have incorporated
like healthy practices into your life, or have been able
to say no, I'm not comfortable with this, or felt
(30:06):
like you have some control given back to you in
your life, like the ability to say no, the ability
to have a car to be able to get into
to drive away if a situation feels unsafe, or a
phone to call someone to come pick you up. I mean, like,
I think it's these are just like really important practices
(30:27):
to engage in regularly, and starting by speaking kindly to
yourself in your inner dialogue.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yes, that inner dialogue is so can be so crafty,
so wicked sometimes to just undermine us and knock us out.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I agree completely. I have run a number of marathons.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And how many marathons have you run?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well? In my book, I said four, and I was
about to run five. I go to the fifth one,
and the morning of the fifth one, it actually was
canceled due to weather and accidents.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh no, so you drained and then it was canceled.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I trained, and I've still only run four.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But before hi, I've never run to the corner. So
good job for you.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Oh thank you. But in each marathon, there's always been
like a wall that I have hit. I feel like
it's usually between mile like eighteen and twenty one where
I'm just like, I can't do this. Why am I
torturing myself? I paid for this torture. I paid to
like for this misery. My whole body hurts. What am
(31:41):
I doing? I shouldn't have done this? And I kind
of start that negative self talk, and then I'll have
my my like, I'll catch myself in this negative self talk,
and like my brain will say, Elizabeth, pull yourself together.
You survived nine months with these two monster. You are
not going to let this little marathon stop you. Like
(32:05):
you are not going to stop at twenty miles or
twenty one miles, you are going to finish it. If
you have to curl on your hands and knees, like
you are stronger than this marathon. Usually at that point
in time be like, Okay, I can do this, I
can finish and I did.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Wow. I mean that is like kind of like parenting
yourself from within, you know, like you said, basically, once
you conquer something that you didn't think you could conquer,
and in your case a very extraordinary situation, but even
in smaller situations, once you realize, look what I've done,
(32:43):
I can do anything. Now, there's nothing I can't survive,
it really gives you that sort of like peace to
rely on yourself in a whole new way.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Absolutely, And I just think, you know, people come to
me all the time and they're like, oh, Elizabeth, you're
so strong. You're so strong. I could never go through
what you went through. That is just something so far
beyond me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Well,
if you told me what I was going to go
through before I went through it, I would say the
same thing. I would say, Well, I couldn't do that.
(33:16):
Are you kidding me, like, I'm not strong enough to
go through that. I think I'd rather die than go
through that. But when you don't have a choice, yeah,
you don't have a choice. You just survive. You just
do what you have to do. And I wish everyone
could recognize that in themselves. We will all go through
(33:36):
something in life where you think I I can't do
this or I can't go on, But then you also
realize you don't have a choice. You can't just wave
a magic wand and make the situation disappear, right, You
just have to go through it. And Wow, Like, aren't
(33:57):
we all so strong? Aren't we all so incredible?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I mean, it's within us all. I think we just
don't know it.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Sometimes aren't people just incredible and amazing?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I want to ask you about sort of like the
victim versus survivor topic. There's a quote from your book
where you say, here is where I see the difference.
While survivors are working tirelessly to overcome their rock slides
and navigate their detours, victims have fallen prey to the
(34:28):
idea that they are their trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I mean, the.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Truth is, you were a victim, but you've chosen to
be a survivor, and that is incredible, But do you
think do you ever feel like labeling victim or survivor
can become problematic? Because I mean, the truth is it's
not a linear thing, this healing that has to happen,
(34:53):
and you know, it's a daily choice.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I mean, I feel like the only person that can
label you accurately as yourself. So I'm not going to
sit here and be like, she is a survivor. She
is not. He's a survivor. She is a survivor, he's
a victim, right Like, I will never sit here and
do that. I think it's in each one of us
to decide for ourselves what are we And you're absolutely right,
(35:21):
healing is not linear. And I mean you can be
going along like five ten years down the road being
like life is just great, like no problems whatsoever, and
then all of a sudden, it's just like something something
blows up to the surface and you're like, but I
already worked through this, Why is this coming up now?
(35:43):
I mean, that's that's totally normal. That it doesn't mean
you didn't heal, or that you're not better today than
you were ten years ago or five years ago or
however long like that that just happens as part of life.
I mean, and you work through it again, and you
keep moving and you keep you don't give up. You
don't just think, well I failed, I didn't maybe I
(36:05):
didn't do enough therapy sessions, or maybe I didn't you know,
like do enough self reflection, or like you don't give up.
You just keep trying. And you know, I feel like
none of us should give up on ourselves, Like none
of us should surrender to what our own worst trauma is,
(36:26):
like believe in yourself, believe you deserve more than your
worst experiences. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And is there something in to be said about not
not allowing yourself to label yourself a victim or to
sort of take a trauma and lead with it for
the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I think labels are very dangerous because I think they
do limit you and you don't see beyond that. You
just see, oh, well, this is me, like kidnaps. I'm
just nap girl, Like that's all'll ever be. And if
I truly thought that, then like I would still be
(37:08):
in that same mind space that I was twenty twenty
two years ago. But I'm I'm not in that mind
space anymore. And so I just like you can let
your certainly people can let their traumas define them, but
they don't have to, and it might take time to
(37:31):
work through them. But that doesn't mean that that's what
defines you, right.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I think it's so important for people to realize that,
but it's really hard when you're in it.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah. Yeah, remembered shortly after I got home. I remember thinking, Man,
if I died tomorrow, what would people say at my funeral?
Like they just talk about, Wow, this is such a tragedy.
She lived such a tragic life, survived abduction and kidnapping,
only to die now. And I remember just thinking that's
all anyone would talk about. And I remember thinking at
(38:03):
that point in time, I was like, when I eventually die,
I don't want anyone to talk about my kidnapping. I
want people to laugh or make fun of me, or
be like this was so funny when or like this
was a special memory, or I was like I don't,
like I want it to be about me, not my abduction.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Right, I mean I can I can definitely see what
you're saying, because inevitably someone in the press or someone's
going to you know, you know when you do leave
this planet, that's going to be talked about, and really
you don't have any control. But what you do have
control is surrounding yourself with the people that you know
no more than that and love you deeper than that.
(38:45):
So that's where those connections and that support system really
comes comes in handy.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Absolutely, which is why relationships are so important, and find
the ones that build you up and love you and
support you through thick and thin.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Have you had to let go of friendships that didn't
serve you, Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I mean I'd see a lot of the ones that
weren't solid faded on their own. I mean I didn't
necessarily have to go through and be like, hey, you're out,
You're out. You didn't. I feel like a lot of
them just kind of died on their own. There have
been some that have been more more difficult, because you know,
(39:34):
like sometimes you can really love a person and feel
like you do anything in the world for them, and
then you just realize that feeling is not reciprocated and
you're pouring love and energy into a relationship that is
not pouring love and energy back into you, and that
could be really hard.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
To Absolutely, I want to know more about this in
your book you you call them rest stops. So these
are just your techniques, your tips that have worked for
you in order to heal and move forward in your life.
(40:14):
I can just name a few, and you can expand
on them, allowing yourself to grieve the lost path and
the destinations that disappeared with it. Why is that important.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Because kind of going back a little bit to what
I was saying earlier, I mean, you do have this
vision of how your life is going to go, and
when that vision is disrupted, it can be heartbreaking. It
can be devastating. You know, like you thought you were
going to marry this man, You thought he was the
love of your life, and then he dies in a
(40:49):
car accident. And I mean, not only are you grieving
the loss of someone you love, but also the life
that you envisioned for yourself, like having a found together,
going on vacations together, growing old together, and you're grieving
that loss as well. So it's like I would, honestly,
(41:10):
I encourage you to not be shy about being sad
or angry or hurt when your life changes its path.
It's okay. It's okay to feel those emotions and it's
okay to sit in that pain for for as long
as you need.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
You say, avoid the trap of comparison. I agree one
hundred percent. It's a trap. Have you avoid it?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Like just recognizing we are all different? I know we
say it all the time. I hear it. I feel
like you hear people be like, we're all like snowflakes,
you know, like every snowflake is different, or you're like
your fingerprint, everyone's different, or dental records, whatever, like everyone
is different. But actually truly believing that because we're all different,
I mean, someone else could be kidnapp in just the
(42:00):
same manner as I was, go through the exact same
things with the exact same monsters, but we would still
have different stories because we're individual, we're different people Like
whoever was the other person who went through that? They're
not me and I'm not them, so we'd be different.
And I feel like, too far, too often have people
(42:21):
say like, oh, I went through something similar, but nothing
in comparison, And I want to be like, well, there
are no comparisons. There's no way to accurately compare what
one person went through versus another person. Because we're all different.
We all have our own unique set of skills that
you just can't compare to anyone else's.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
H Absolutely, I think sometimes we forget I know I do.
I forget that even like in my relationship with my husband,
I forget that he's a different set of eyeballs, he
has a different complete, different take on any given situation,
or even what something looks like for him is completely
different or maybe completely different than what it looks like
(43:05):
for me. And I think in the world, we kind
of walk around thinking everybody is sees the way you
do or thinks the way you do, but so not
the truth.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It really it really isn't I mean, yeah, we are
all just so different. And even like another another silly example,
I have this friend who she like if she had
pursued sports when she was younger, like, I have no
idea how far she would have gone, but I invited
her to come train with me for a marathon. I
(43:38):
convinced her to run a marathon with me, And I'd say,
I'm actually a pretty disciplined person, Like if it's something
I care about and want to do well, and like
I can show up, I can do the work as
I can do the runs, and like I like followed
the plan. I mean, like she was good, but I
know that I followed it more than she. And then
(44:01):
race day came and I was like, yes, I'm gonna
do so well. She blew me out of the water.
Really oh, she destroyed me. And I was just like,
but I traded so hard. But that was like me,
just like, what is she doing that I'm not doing? Like,
but that's just because we're different people, Like, we're just different.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
It just seems like such a waste of time to
compare yourself, right.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yes, you say, resist the urge to isolate, pursue connection fearlessly.
Sometimes that can be easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I agree, I'm probably a naturally more reserved person.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Would you say you're an introvert. Yes, yeah, I'd.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Say I'm a functioning introvert. Like right, small talk I
can and then if you have to at the end
of the night, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired, nobody
else talk to me. I'm done, right, this is it.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
I need to go recharge. Yeah, that happens to me too.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
But I mean finding I think I think the difference
is finding the people that you don't feel exhausted after
being with finding the people that recharge you, that you
enjoy being around. So maybe it's not having you know,
a hundred friends, maybe it's just having one or two.
But by being around them, you don't feel like you're
(45:30):
being drained. You feel like you are receiving instead of
just giving.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yes, you also say, when it comes to dreams, set goals,
not deadlines.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yes, I fall prey to both. Like just honestly, I
do fall prey to both. I'll be like, by this day,
I am going to have all of this done, or
like even in this book by you know, in six months,
the first draft is going to be done. Right does
(46:06):
that ever happen? No, No it doesn't. But just setting
the goal to like write the book. You know, this
process has gone on for I want to say, over
a year and a half. Maybe we're closing it on
two years now. I need to I need to go
back and rethink it all. You know, like it here,
I am.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Like here, it is, this is where I am right here,
I am.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I mean, I think you know, deadlines can be helpful,
they can move us, but I also think they can
be very very detrimental because then you're like, I didn't
make it. I didn't do it. This was all for naught.
I'm a failure, right, And then you just go back
down into that negative spiral.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
So I know you're a huge family person, so committed
to your family, and so they've just been such a
great support to you. Now that your parents have divorced
and you made a huge I choose me moment when
he came out, how has that affected your family dynamics?
Speaker 2 (47:08):
I feel so heartbroken for both my parents. You know,
my mom was in a marriage for thirty years. She
thought they were going to be together their whole lives,
like they had built a life together, and then for
my dad to come out, like I can't imagine how
(47:31):
heartbreaking and difficult that would be for my mom to
feel like her life and everything she'd work for had
all of a sudden just this partnership had just crumbled
and disappeared. And on the other hand, I mean, feeling
like you're not living like my dad, and feeling like
you're not living who you really are, and like keeping
(47:54):
a massive secret that you feel like identifies you to
a degree, Like how impossible a situation is that? Because
I mean I had neither me nor any of my
brothers or my sister had any clue ever ever thought
(48:14):
my dad was gay. I mean, none of us. That
was never even a thought that went through our heads.
So it was a pretty big shock to all of
us when that happened. And you know, there's been there's
been good things, like really forcing me to build a
(48:36):
relationship with my dad separate than the one to my mom.
But again, like there's sad things, you know, like birthdays
and holidays where you know it's like, oh, oh we
had mom at the last one, kids dad's turn or
you know my mom. You know, I just it's it's
more difficult.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
It's definitely more difficult. Yeah, I know, having been through
a divorce and having kids and now having to share them,
and it's so much more of a burden on them,
I think emotionally than it is even on me or
their dad, because you know, we've moved on in our life,
but your childhood, the core of who you are. When
(49:19):
that gets shaken and turned upside down, you have to
sort of forge a new way. And you know, in
my case, I'm just so grateful that my daughters have
one another. So when they're struggling or being challenged with
that kind of stuff, and I'm sure you rely on
your brothers and sisters a lot for that too.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I mean, we definitely. I feel like I was always
pretty close with a lot of my siblings. I mean
I feel like we were all pretty close always. But
it's definitely brought us in many ways closer. Just being like, hey,
did you feel this way? Or like I thought this,
or like am I crazy? Or yeah, I mean how
(50:00):
has helped us become closer as well.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, well that's one of the good things that's come
from it, for sure. Way to see the positive, Yeah
like that.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
I mean I'm not always like super positive. Sometimes I'm like,
I hate this. I wish they'd never gotten divorced. I
mean I don't want them to be unhappy. I would
never want either of them to be unhappy. I of
course I always want them to be happy, But selfishly,
there's a part of me that's like, this would just
be easier if you had never gotten divorced. Yeah, it
would have been easier for me. It wouldn't have been
(50:34):
easier for them.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
So yeah, I think that sometimes we forget that how
difficult it is on the kids divorce, But.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I mean it is, It's happened, and now you know
what to move forward as best we can figure out.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, gratitude, forgiveness, hope, all those things are so important.
Before I let you go, Elizabeth Smart, what was your
last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Probably this morning when I should have probably done the dishes,
but I decided to work out instead. And the dishes
are still upstairs in the sink.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Now they can wait.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
That's what I told myself.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah. Good, that's just a simple, like everyday way stuff.
That is, it's not the end of the world that
the dishes aren't done. What's more important is your health
and your sanity.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yes, my sanity. I would focus on that.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yes, okay. Well, Elizabeth's book Detours Hope and Growth after
Life's Hardest Turns is available now. You guys, thank you
so much for joining me, Elizabeth, your story, your perseverance
is going to help so many people.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Thank you, Jenny. It was such a pleasure coming on
and chatting with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I loved it. It's really nice to meet you, and
you are an inspiration.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
It's very nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
To thank you
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make, and today I am going to
introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single
day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen
(00:23):
years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and
held her for grueling nine months. They took her as
their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she
knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling
you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is
here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices
(00:46):
she has made since her rescue, the choice to not
only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours,
Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with
the help of what she calls rest stops along the way,
we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will
(01:07):
certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please
welcome Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to
say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention
your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right,
how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm
all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every
time I kind of think like the retelling of my
story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along.
And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no,
people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough
(01:50):
from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent
a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors
and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how
I realized that when you share your story, you give
permission to other people to share their stories. Let you
(02:11):
talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other
people to share their trauma. And so then when this
opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on
a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I
would be on. This is great.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to
continue to be heard because it's an important one. You
had a terrible thing happened to you early on in
your life. I remember watching in real time as the
news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was
gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a
(02:46):
new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're
not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I
want to just focus on your path forward.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
In fact, you said that you don't want your book
or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma
dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you
mean by that, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Just that this book is not meant to dive into
the gory details of what went on. I mean, I
feel like my first book was the retelling of my
story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably
ever go into on a public stage. And this book
is different. This is not my first book, this is
(03:32):
not my story. This is more trying to really identify
the steps that I took that have allowed me to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So this is very important for those nine months back
in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you
had to learn to be strategically silent as a form
of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're
choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you
(04:03):
consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield
to now your voice being sort of your superpower.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had
so many mentors to look up to, so many people
that I admire, and my family has been certainly every
member of my family has been one of those mentors
and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually,
I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt
(04:34):
like I felt like it was days later, but now
I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was
flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work
on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and
every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like
he was going up to our capital to law before it.
(04:55):
And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared
or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families.
He was talking to the families, trying to provide help,
trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could.
And then he was going to search centers and helping
to do searches for other people. So I had the
(05:17):
incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents,
my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the
importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you
borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got
it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did
you fill it all the way up full with gas
even though maybe it only came to it half empty?
(05:39):
Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did
you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that
was kind of our family. I don't know just how
they were, And so I never thought that, I mean,
I would give back simply by telling my story. But
(05:59):
when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know,
was the better part of a decade later, after I
was rescued and finally shared all of these details that
I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling
like I haven't given any context to this. This just
(06:19):
feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed,
like if all this is going out where I didn't
want to go to begin with, Like it needs to
serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose.
And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my
opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know,
would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like,
(06:40):
little by little, I don't think he ever tried to
like pull me into it, but just his questions and
his example just kind of helped lead me in through
shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I
was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more
like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's
out there, so I'm yes.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people
go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined
by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself
by your strength and your life after the event. How
did you get there? What were the mental steps that
took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from
(07:25):
the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter,
the wife, the mom.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So I feel like that's really like one of the
core of what this book is. And I mean it
starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life.
I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we
all have this image of how we see our life
laid out in front of us. We have like this
this road, if you will, of what our life, where
(07:52):
our life is going to take us. And I haven't
met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right
sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something.
And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay
to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that
(08:13):
you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents
they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I
could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married.
I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact.
And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all
(08:34):
moved on with our lives. But at the same time,
like there is some grief around like holidays or special
events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely,
you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths,
grieve the life that you you thought you were going
(08:56):
to have, but it's also important to not just stay
in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong
with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But
you need to find your way forward. You need to
find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just
as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower,
(09:19):
maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like
there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes
maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I know you have a strong religious belief system that
you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people
believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or
traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny,
that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to
reference your source has chosen this path for you, and
(09:52):
if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking,
you will overcome it. My question here is, in your
years of healing, did you ever question that faith or
did you ever or did you just accept that this
was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had.
I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith
that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe
I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know,
but I also just feel like for me, like belief
is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's
(10:34):
word for it, Like I have to know something before
I believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right,
I mean I wasn't either.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's
happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did
I always just think that was the plan for my life?
I guess I still as a child and still now
I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by,
I want to believe that he loves us. And if
he loves us, I don't think he would say you're
(11:06):
going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to
go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're
gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't
believe that a loving God would want that for us
in our own I think other people make decisions, and
we're all free to make our own decisions. I think
(11:28):
God always wants the best for us, and we can
let him in as much or as little as we
want into our lives. And I think that you know,
if you do let him in, you can I think
easier find your way forward easier than if you just
(11:49):
shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about
that before, and I was never like a real faith believer.
I didn't feel like I had that support. But once
I decided that I was missing faith in my life,
it just really changed everything. I felt so so much
more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know,
(12:14):
so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back
on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I
think that's what we all should do as we get
older and kind of define what it is that we want.
I think that's so admirable.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and
I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something.
I'm putting myself in your position right now now that
you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly
at night? How do you sleep in the next room
to your babies and not just lose your mind with
worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever
(12:57):
sleeping through a night after what happened to you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember
just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat
to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my
heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting
for it to like settle back down into my chest
and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't
know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like,
(13:23):
there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay
with this and I feel like I do need to
know where they're at. I need to know who they're with,
like I need to. I just I need to know
what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I
don't think I could function because I just be a
(13:44):
hot mess all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what
you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was
just the one thing for me as a mom. And
then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I
just my heart goes out to what that must be like.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
It's you know, it's good that I have my husband
here to be the voice of reason.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes
you need that voice of reason to get you to
just calm down do you teach your kids about your past,
about what happened, and how do you do that without
allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their
future or their fear.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So one of the I wish I came up with this.
I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not.
But one of the best pieces of parent and advice
I was given was when your kids start asking you questions,
that's the right time to start talking about it. And
remember I was given that advice before even my first
was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice.
(14:57):
I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure
there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're
going to use the correct body part names, like I'm
not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like
penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow
or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because
for me, like as a kid growing up, I was
just like oh, but so like I had all these
(15:23):
ideas of how I was going to parent my children,
and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm
going to give them like the answers, like I won't
be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's
conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing
me to speaking to my oldest when she was three
years old about them, because she started asking questions. I
(15:45):
was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm
not ready to go.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
How does she know at three years old to ask
questions about it.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I was getting ready one day to go to a
parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going?
Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed
down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like,
why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble.
I was like no, I was like, I'm going down
there to make sure that people who do bad things
(16:11):
don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things
do they do? She's like why are you going? Did
they do something to you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
She's curious about everything.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So I mean that did end up me talking about
what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't
it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really
started off as you know, a long time ago, when
I was very little, there was a man and woman
who came in and took me and they hurt me,
and they hurt me for a long time. But now
they're in prison, so I want to make sure they
(16:42):
stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was
kind of that first conversation with her. But then as
as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well.
And like, you know, when I say no to things
that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you
remember what my job is. My job is to keep
you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting
(17:05):
you do this because this is not safe.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids,
but I can imagine it being double hard for you
because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know,
sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as
they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those
questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the
documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from
kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's
gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth.
And I think that that's you're going about it the
(17:49):
right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes
I feel like I in sort of create more fear
in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies
out there. But also at the same time, I think
you need to be afraid. You need to have a
certain level of fear in order to remember to keep
(18:10):
yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going
to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I think for me it's very important that I mean
all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong
and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to
always be polite. I was always raised to you know,
respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it
was very hard for me to say no. So I
(18:37):
want them to feel like they can fight back, that
they can say no, that they have my permission to
not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate
with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand
up for themselves and that all back them up. So,
I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or
(19:00):
sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that,
and they turned around and like they defended themselves and
maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the
I don't know the principle or something was like, oh,
you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd
be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and
I want her to feel strong, and I want her
to know that nobody has the right to touch her
(19:22):
and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone.
I've heard this example given so many times, and I
think it's such a good example. If you look at
the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you
would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator
with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the
(19:44):
prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as
human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't
get into that elevator, we will still do it because
we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to
appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Don't want to make it awkward.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings
in our gut, the little voice in the back of
our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me
being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid.
Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And
as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help
you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones,
no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier
than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious,
how did you find the right people after all this
to help you navigate these detours as you call them.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So for me, it was just it was I mean,
it was finding people who just liked me for me.
Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart
or because of the past, or because I got extra
attention or anything like that. They just they liked me
(21:08):
for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband,
he had no idea who I was. He didn't know
my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like,
never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me,
he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah,
I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more.
(21:30):
And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing,
because on the other hand, I had so many kind,
well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know
you must be struggling so much. What would you like
to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you
experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like?
(21:51):
And even though I know they're being kind, it also
just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that
they wanting to like dig in more and more and
more for which again, that was just not something I
wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it
in the past. So that is a I get I
(22:11):
feel like a very basic example of you know, well
meaning people but maybe not the best to be around
versus people that really loved me for me and my
past made no difference to them at all.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid
of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a
way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to
them or some sometimes you can be off putting if
that's what you need to do, but like if they
were close friends and family, like, how did you say,
like I need space from you and I don't want
to discuss this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh,
you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank
you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let
you know if I need to talk about it later,
but I'm okay right now.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And then you just sort of like you like, thin
the weeds a little and find you're right the path
of the little patch of grass that feels right. I'm
so glad that you found your husband. I mean, what
a wonderful gift to have somebody that's walking beside you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah. No, I'm so happy we found each other.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. You call them detours, like I mentioned, you also
call them rock slides, those unexpected events and experiences, whatever
you call them. Those can end up causing a lot
of pain. And you have experienced, you know, some pretty
(23:47):
major detours, from the kidnapping to that phone call from
your dad telling you that he and your mom are
getting a divorce that I'm sure shook you. I'm sure
there have been other painful events in the course of
your life so far. How do you work through that
residual pain, I guess is my question again.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I feel like it it is like going through these
steps in the book, you know, like grieving the loss,
then you know, trying to navigate a new way forward
pursuing connection. So I mean, for instance, in my parents' divorce,
my siblings were going through the same thing, and so
I feel like it brought us together in some ways
(24:30):
that maybe it wouldn't have either otherwise. And listening, I
feel like it gave me like a new understanding and
compassion for other people who would experience the same things.
And you know, I think back to like my childhood
and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced,
and I had no idea what that was. That was
(24:52):
like as a kid, and you know, they'd be like, oh,
I'm going to my mom's house and I'm going to
my dad's house now. And now I'm like, man, I
feel like I can't that sounds awful. I can't imagine.
I mean, yeah, because my parents divorced when I was
an adult. That's terrible. So I still feel like it
gave me compassion and empathy, and you know, it's caused
(25:15):
me to like pursue more connections in my life, meaningful connections.
It forced me into well force is maybe the wrong word,
but before my parents were divorced, i'd say, my relationship
with my dad kind of piggybacked off of my mom
because I talked to my mom so much before they
were divorced that like, if my dad was around, just
(25:37):
be like, oh hey Dad, Yeah, how are you doing? Yep,
We're good, okay, yep. See yeah. But then you know,
when they divorced, like I had to be very intentional
about my relationship with him because it couldn't just piggyback
off my mom anymore because they weren't together anymore. So
I feel like that was a good good I mean,
(25:59):
I mean, yeah, a good thing for me to really
establish my own relationship. But yeah, kind of opened a
different door for you as far as that connection, I think. Yeah.
And then you know, like as you move forward down
these new paths, finding like the joys are the reasons
to be thankful along the time. I mean again, had
(26:19):
I not been kidnapped, you know, I'd like to think
that I would still care as much as I do
about sexual abuse, violence, subduction, domestic violence, I'd love to
think that I care as deeply as I do. But
also I think I probably would have continued living a
life where those conversations were not being had I can
(26:41):
very easily imagine maybing like oh those are terrible, that's
so sad, that's terrible, But that doesn't happen very often.
That doesn't happen to me, So like people who know
what they're doing are already dealing with it, whereas now
I'm like, this is everywhere, Like you want to talk
about an epidemic, like talk about domestic violence or sexual abuse,
(27:03):
like numbers are through the roof.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I think sometimes people are just like, like you said,
it's not happening to me. That's terrible. But there's that also,
that just ability to kind of shut it off because
either it's just so ugly we don't want to look
at it, we don't want to think about it, or
if we do, maybe we'll bring it into our lives
or something exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, So now I'm grateful that it has given me
this empathy and understanding and confecsion and like desire to
want to change is our nation? Our world?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, lit up a passion inside of you that maybe
never would have ignited.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, exactly what do you do.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Though, when your brain reminds you of stories that you
don't want to think about anymore? Like how do you
quiet the those memories or voices inside your mind.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So I feel like there, I mean, I feel like
it's something actually you preach and it's kind of choosing
to take care of yourself or having practices that you
make a part of your life so that when maybe
something does become too much, you can step back and
take a break. Because I think breaks are great. I
think breaks are wonderful.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So makes are the.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Best going for a walk? Is that listening to an
audiobook or a podcast, or a piece of music, or
maybe it's playing music or singing music yourself, or making
a cake, or just doing something that's engaging your senses
in something other than just sitting, like letting those memories
(28:44):
overtake you.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And you've had that, I'm sure, those moments where it's coming,
it's happening, you're starting to swirl down that memory of
a toilet, you know, and those that's when you consciously
are like, Okay, nope, we are going to focus on
something else right now.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, Yes, definitely, I have had those experience.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
That takes such self awareness, I think, and it also
takes a certain amount of strength to It's almost like
training your brain to not think certain things because you
know they're not going to do you any good.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I yeah, I agree completely. I think our brain has
so much power and influence on how we live our
daily lives, and I think it's so important for us
to train our brains to be kind to us because
I think if you just like go down that toilet
bowl of negativity, that is what your brain is going
(29:44):
to say to you. That's just going to make it
even worse and worse. But I think when you find
yourself going down that negative spiral, if you have like
spoken kind words to yourself repeatedly, and you have incorporated
like healthy practices into your life, or have been able
to say no, I'm not comfortable with this, or felt
(30:06):
like you have some control given back to you in
your life, like the ability to say no, the ability
to have a car to be able to get into
to drive away if a situation feels unsafe, or a
phone to call someone to come pick you up. I mean, like,
I think it's these are just like really important practices
(30:27):
to engage in regularly, and starting by speaking kindly to
yourself in your inner dialogue.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yes, that inner dialogue is so can be so crafty,
so wicked sometimes to just undermine us and knock us out.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I agree completely. I have run a number of marathons.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And how many marathons have you run?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well? In my book, I said four, and I was
about to run five. I go to the fifth one,
and the morning of the fifth one, it actually was
canceled due to weather and accidents.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh no, so you drained and then it was canceled.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I trained, and I've still only run four.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But before hi, I've never run to the corner. So
good job for you.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Oh thank you. But in each marathon, there's always been
like a wall that I have hit. I feel like
it's usually between mile like eighteen and twenty one where
I'm just like, I can't do this. Why am I
torturing myself? I paid for this torture. I paid to
like for this misery. My whole body hurts. What am
(31:41):
I doing? I shouldn't have done this? And I kind
of start that negative self talk, and then I'll have
my my like, I'll catch myself in this negative self talk,
and like my brain will say, Elizabeth, pull yourself together.
You survived nine months with these two monster. You are
not going to let this little marathon stop you. Like
(32:05):
you are not going to stop at twenty miles or
twenty one miles, you are going to finish it. If
you have to curl on your hands and knees, like
you are stronger than this marathon. Usually at that point
in time be like, Okay, I can do this, I
can finish and I did.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Wow. I mean that is like kind of like parenting
yourself from within, you know, like you said, basically, once
you conquer something that you didn't think you could conquer,
and in your case a very extraordinary situation, but even
in smaller situations, once you realize, look what I've done,
(32:43):
I can do anything. Now, there's nothing I can't survive,
it really gives you that sort of like peace to
rely on yourself in a whole new way.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Absolutely, And I just think, you know, people come to
me all the time and they're like, oh, Elizabeth, you're
so strong. You're so strong. I could never go through
what you went through. That is just something so far
beyond me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Well,
if you told me what I was going to go
through before I went through it, I would say the
same thing. I would say, Well, I couldn't do that.
(33:16):
Are you kidding me, like, I'm not strong enough to
go through that. I think I'd rather die than go
through that. But when you don't have a choice, yeah,
you don't have a choice. You just survive. You just
do what you have to do. And I wish everyone
could recognize that in themselves. We will all go through
(33:36):
something in life where you think I I can't do
this or I can't go on, But then you also
realize you don't have a choice. You can't just wave
a magic wand and make the situation disappear, right, You
just have to go through it. And Wow, Like, aren't
(33:57):
we all so strong? Aren't we all so incredible?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I mean, it's within us all. I think we just
don't know it.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Sometimes aren't people just incredible and amazing?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I want to ask you about sort of like the
victim versus survivor topic. There's a quote from your book
where you say, here is where I see the difference.
While survivors are working tirelessly to overcome their rock slides
and navigate their detours, victims have fallen prey to the
(34:28):
idea that they are their trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I mean, the.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Truth is, you were a victim, but you've chosen to
be a survivor, and that is incredible, But do you
think do you ever feel like labeling victim or survivor
can become problematic? Because I mean, the truth is it's
not a linear thing, this healing that has to happen,
(34:53):
and you know, it's a daily choice.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I mean, I feel like the only person that can
label you accurately as yourself. So I'm not going to
sit here and be like, she is a survivor. She
is not. He's a survivor. She is a survivor, he's
a victim, right Like, I will never sit here and
do that. I think it's in each one of us
to decide for ourselves what are we And you're absolutely right,
(35:21):
healing is not linear. And I mean you can be
going along like five ten years down the road being
like life is just great, like no problems whatsoever, and
then all of a sudden, it's just like something something
blows up to the surface and you're like, but I
already worked through this, Why is this coming up now?
(35:43):
I mean, that's that's totally normal. That it doesn't mean
you didn't heal, or that you're not better today than
you were ten years ago or five years ago or
however long like that that just happens as part of life.
I mean, and you work through it again, and you
keep moving and you keep you don't give up. You
don't just think, well I failed, I didn't maybe I
(36:05):
didn't do enough therapy sessions, or maybe I didn't you know,
like do enough self reflection, or like you don't give up.
You just keep trying. And you know, I feel like
none of us should give up on ourselves, Like none
of us should surrender to what our own worst trauma is,
(36:26):
like believe in yourself, believe you deserve more than your
worst experiences. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And is there something in to be said about not
not allowing yourself to label yourself a victim or to
sort of take a trauma and lead with it for
the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I think labels are very dangerous because I think they
do limit you and you don't see beyond that. You
just see, oh, well, this is me, like kidnaps. I'm
just nap girl, Like that's all'll ever be. And if
I truly thought that, then like I would still be
(37:08):
in that same mind space that I was twenty twenty
two years ago. But I'm I'm not in that mind
space anymore. And so I just like you can let
your certainly people can let their traumas define them, but
they don't have to, and it might take time to
(37:31):
work through them. But that doesn't mean that that's what
defines you, right.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I think it's so important for people to realize that,
but it's really hard when you're in it.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah. Yeah, remembered shortly after I got home. I remember thinking, Man,
if I died tomorrow, what would people say at my funeral?
Like they just talk about, Wow, this is such a tragedy.
She lived such a tragic life, survived abduction and kidnapping,
only to die now. And I remember just thinking that's
all anyone would talk about. And I remember thinking at
(38:03):
that point in time, I was like, when I eventually die,
I don't want anyone to talk about my kidnapping. I
want people to laugh or make fun of me, or
be like this was so funny when or like this
was a special memory, or I was like I don't,
like I want it to be about me, not my abduction.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Right, I mean I can I can definitely see what
you're saying, because inevitably someone in the press or someone's
going to you know, you know when you do leave
this planet, that's going to be talked about, and really
you don't have any control. But what you do have
control is surrounding yourself with the people that you know
no more than that and love you deeper than that.
(38:45):
So that's where those connections and that support system really
comes comes in handy.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Absolutely, which is why relationships are so important, and find
the ones that build you up and love you and
support you through thick and thin.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Have you had to let go of friendships that didn't
serve you, Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I mean I'd see a lot of the ones that
weren't solid faded on their own. I mean I didn't
necessarily have to go through and be like, hey, you're out,
You're out. You didn't. I feel like a lot of
them just kind of died on their own. There have
been some that have been more more difficult, because you know,
(39:34):
like sometimes you can really love a person and feel
like you do anything in the world for them, and
then you just realize that feeling is not reciprocated and
you're pouring love and energy into a relationship that is
not pouring love and energy back into you, and that
could be really hard.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
To Absolutely, I want to know more about this in
your book you you call them rest stops. So these
are just your techniques, your tips that have worked for
you in order to heal and move forward in your life.
(40:14):
I can just name a few, and you can expand
on them, allowing yourself to grieve the lost path and
the destinations that disappeared with it. Why is that important.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Because kind of going back a little bit to what
I was saying earlier, I mean, you do have this
vision of how your life is going to go, and
when that vision is disrupted, it can be heartbreaking. It
can be devastating. You know, like you thought you were
going to marry this man, You thought he was the
love of your life, and then he dies in a
(40:49):
car accident. And I mean, not only are you grieving
the loss of someone you love, but also the life
that you envisioned for yourself, like having a found together,
going on vacations together, growing old together, and you're grieving
that loss as well. So it's like I would, honestly,
(41:10):
I encourage you to not be shy about being sad
or angry or hurt when your life changes its path.
It's okay. It's okay to feel those emotions and it's
okay to sit in that pain for for as long
as you need.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
You say, avoid the trap of comparison. I agree one
hundred percent. It's a trap. Have you avoid it?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Like just recognizing we are all different? I know we
say it all the time. I hear it. I feel
like you hear people be like, we're all like snowflakes,
you know, like every snowflake is different, or you're like
your fingerprint, everyone's different, or dental records, whatever, like everyone
is different. But actually truly believing that because we're all different,
I mean, someone else could be kidnapp in just the
(42:00):
same manner as I was, go through the exact same
things with the exact same monsters, but we would still
have different stories because we're individual, we're different people Like
whoever was the other person who went through that? They're
not me and I'm not them, so we'd be different.
And I feel like, too far, too often have people
(42:21):
say like, oh, I went through something similar, but nothing
in comparison, And I want to be like, well, there
are no comparisons. There's no way to accurately compare what
one person went through versus another person. Because we're all different.
We all have our own unique set of skills that
you just can't compare to anyone else's.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
H Absolutely, I think sometimes we forget I know I do.
I forget that even like in my relationship with my husband,
I forget that he's a different set of eyeballs, he
has a different complete, different take on any given situation,
or even what something looks like for him is completely
different or maybe completely different than what it looks like
(43:05):
for me. And I think in the world, we kind
of walk around thinking everybody is sees the way you
do or thinks the way you do, but so not
the truth.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It really it really isn't I mean, yeah, we are
all just so different. And even like another another silly example,
I have this friend who she like if she had
pursued sports when she was younger, like, I have no
idea how far she would have gone, but I invited
her to come train with me for a marathon. I
(43:38):
convinced her to run a marathon with me, And I'd say,
I'm actually a pretty disciplined person, Like if it's something
I care about and want to do well, and like
I can show up, I can do the work as
I can do the runs, and like I like followed
the plan. I mean, like she was good, but I
know that I followed it more than she. And then
(44:01):
race day came and I was like, yes, I'm gonna
do so well. She blew me out of the water.
Really oh, she destroyed me. And I was just like,
but I traded so hard. But that was like me,
just like, what is she doing that I'm not doing? Like,
but that's just because we're different people, Like, we're just different.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
It just seems like such a waste of time to
compare yourself, right.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yes, you say, resist the urge to isolate, pursue connection fearlessly.
Sometimes that can be easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I agree, I'm probably a naturally more reserved person.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Would you say you're an introvert. Yes, yeah, I'd.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Say I'm a functioning introvert. Like right, small talk I
can and then if you have to at the end
of the night, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired, nobody
else talk to me. I'm done, right, this is it.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
I need to go recharge. Yeah, that happens to me too.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
But I mean finding I think I think the difference
is finding the people that you don't feel exhausted after
being with finding the people that recharge you, that you
enjoy being around. So maybe it's not having you know,
a hundred friends, maybe it's just having one or two.
But by being around them, you don't feel like you're
(45:30):
being drained. You feel like you are receiving instead of
just giving.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yes, you also say, when it comes to dreams, set goals,
not deadlines.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yes, I fall prey to both. Like just honestly, I
do fall prey to both. I'll be like, by this day,
I am going to have all of this done, or
like even in this book by you know, in six months,
the first draft is going to be done. Right does
(46:06):
that ever happen? No, No it doesn't. But just setting
the goal to like write the book. You know, this
process has gone on for I want to say, over
a year and a half. Maybe we're closing it on
two years now. I need to I need to go
back and rethink it all. You know, like it here,
I am.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Like here, it is, this is where I am right here,
I am.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I mean, I think you know, deadlines can be helpful,
they can move us, but I also think they can
be very very detrimental because then you're like, I didn't
make it. I didn't do it. This was all for naught.
I'm a failure, right, And then you just go back
down into that negative spiral.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
So I know you're a huge family person, so committed
to your family, and so they've just been such a
great support to you. Now that your parents have divorced
and you made a huge I choose me moment when
he came out, how has that affected your family dynamics?
Speaker 2 (47:08):
I feel so heartbroken for both my parents. You know,
my mom was in a marriage for thirty years. She
thought they were going to be together their whole lives,
like they had built a life together, and then for
my dad to come out, like I can't imagine how
(47:31):
heartbreaking and difficult that would be for my mom to
feel like her life and everything she'd work for had
all of a sudden just this partnership had just crumbled
and disappeared. And on the other hand, I mean, feeling
like you're not living like my dad, and feeling like
you're not living who you really are, and like keeping
(47:54):
a massive secret that you feel like identifies you to
a degree, Like how impossible a situation is that? Because
I mean I had neither me nor any of my
brothers or my sister had any clue ever ever thought
(48:14):
my dad was gay. I mean, none of us. That
was never even a thought that went through our heads.
So it was a pretty big shock to all of
us when that happened. And you know, there's been there's
been good things, like really forcing me to build a
(48:36):
relationship with my dad separate than the one to my mom.
But again, like there's sad things, you know, like birthdays
and holidays where you know it's like, oh, oh we
had mom at the last one, kids dad's turn or
you know my mom. You know, I just it's it's
more difficult.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
It's definitely more difficult. Yeah, I know, having been through
a divorce and having kids and now having to share them,
and it's so much more of a burden on them,
I think emotionally than it is even on me or
their dad, because you know, we've moved on in our life,
but your childhood, the core of who you are. When
(49:19):
that gets shaken and turned upside down, you have to
sort of forge a new way. And you know, in
my case, I'm just so grateful that my daughters have
one another. So when they're struggling or being challenged with
that kind of stuff, and I'm sure you rely on
your brothers and sisters a lot for that too.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I mean, we definitely. I feel like I was always
pretty close with a lot of my siblings. I mean
I feel like we were all pretty close always. But
it's definitely brought us in many ways closer. Just being like, hey,
did you feel this way? Or like I thought this,
or like am I crazy? Or yeah, I mean how
(50:00):
has helped us become closer as well.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, well that's one of the good things that's come
from it, for sure. Way to see the positive, Yeah
like that.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
I mean I'm not always like super positive. Sometimes I'm like,
I hate this. I wish they'd never gotten divorced. I
mean I don't want them to be unhappy. I would
never want either of them to be unhappy. I of
course I always want them to be happy, But selfishly,
there's a part of me that's like, this would just
be easier if you had never gotten divorced. Yeah, it
would have been easier for me. It wouldn't have been
(50:34):
easier for them.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
So yeah, I think that sometimes we forget that how
difficult it is on the kids divorce, But.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I mean it is, It's happened, and now you know
what to move forward as best we can figure out.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, gratitude, forgiveness, hope, all those things are so important.
Before I let you go, Elizabeth Smart, what was your
last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Probably this morning when I should have probably done the dishes,
but I decided to work out instead. And the dishes
are still upstairs in the sink.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Now they can wait.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
That's what I told myself.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah. Good, that's just a simple, like everyday way stuff.
That is, it's not the end of the world that
the dishes aren't done. What's more important is your health
and your sanity.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yes, my sanity. I would focus on that.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yes, okay. Well, Elizabeth's book Detours Hope and Growth after
Life's Hardest Turns is available now. You guys, thank you
so much for joining me, Elizabeth, your story, your perseverance
is going to help so many people.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Thank you, Jenny. It was such a pleasure coming on
and chatting with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I loved it. It's really nice to meet you, and
you are an inspiration.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
It's very nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
To thank you
Host
Jennie Garth
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