December 18, 2025 • 42 mins
Dr. Mindy Pelz believes that “menopause isn’t the end of anything… it’s the beginning of everything.” In this empowering conversation, she and Jennie explore how the brain actually rewires during this stage of life to support confidence, clarity and leadership and how to harness that shift as a true rebirth.
Follow the "I Choose Me" Podcast on Instagram and TikTok
Follow Jennie on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all
about the choices we make and how they shape our lives. Today,
we're making a choice to embrace a brand new way
of thinking about aging with the incredible doctor Mendy Pels.
Doctor Mindy says menopause isn't the end of anything, It's
the beginning of everything. Her new book, Age Like a Girl,
(00:33):
blends neuroscience and psychology and invites women to transform the
next part of our lives into the most powerful chapter yet.
Please welcome doctor Mendy.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dodor.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Mendy, you say that postmenopausal we have a new brain emerging.
I've never I've never heard it quite said like that.
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh? I love that you've never heard this, because this
is a ten year research project that I've been on
proving that menopause is actually working for us. And what
I mean by it is that the brain rewires itself.
With the drop in sex hormones, primarily estrogen, the brain
starts to take the neurons you no longer need. And
(01:21):
you know what neurons you don't need anymore?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
You know? You don't need the people pleasing neurons. You
don't need. I'm going to fix everybody's life. Neurons Bye,
by neurons exactly all the things that kept us tethered
to everybody else's opinion of us. Those neurons go away
to make room for new neurons that are setting you
up for more independent thinking, more leadership, more focused, better cognition.
(01:49):
These are all things that I discovered in this ten
year research project I call age like a girl.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Age like a girl. You've okay, you said ten years
you've been doing this, and that you also said that
this story is about your own journey and it's deeply personal.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Why Well, so, when I wanted to answer the question
of what was the purpose of menopause, I started to
see some statistics that were saying that if a woman's lucky,
she'll live about forty two point five percent of her
life post reproductively.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I also saw a statistic that said the most common
time for a woman to kill herself is between the
decade of forty five and fifty five. And mixed that
with I had a practice full of women in their
forties where they, on paper, everything in their life looked perfect,
But when I got in behind a closed door, they
(02:42):
would tell me things like I'm suicidal, I'm depressed all
the time. I'm thinking I'm gonna leave my husband, Like
really deep stuff was going on. So ten years ago,
I wanted to understand what was happening to the female
brain as a woman went through this massive neurocheml change.
And in that research, I actually found myself and I
(03:05):
found parts of me that I no longer wanted to
hold on to, the people pleasing parts, the codependent parts.
I had to come to a realization that I had
a bit of a codependent nature, the parts that I
was trying to fix everybody around me. I mean, I
became a doctor and so I wanted to fix everybody's health,
(03:25):
and in that I realized I lost myself and that
I didn't have a relationship with myself. So it's deeply
personal because it started off as a research project, but
when I actually went to go write it, I realized
how much this was my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Your journey, every woman's journey. I think we all reached
that age where we're like, what in the world do
I do? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's right, that's right?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Is this book only for menopausal women.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's such a good question. So the absolute answer is no.
I want to tell you that the most interesting discussions
I've been having with this book are with thirty year
old women. There are so many thirty mid thirty year
old women, late thirty year old women that are saying
to me, thank you because I want to know how
(04:19):
to prepare for menopause.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh I love these women. We do these women have
the information that we didn't have.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yes, thanks to you. Yeah, well, there's a bunch of
us out there trying to bring it forward. So but
then the other age group that I found is really
surprising are the seventy year olds. I've had a lot
of women online and in our membership group really expressed
that they went through menopause in silence, and they weren't
(04:48):
given a butterfly moment. They weren't told that their brain
was rewiring, and so things that I'm pointing out in
this book. They had strong hunches about and are finally
leaning into living life the way they want to live it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
This is so great. You say, menopause isn't a decline
at all. It's a transition into wisdom, leadership, and a
new brain. So for women listening, What does that mean
for who we're all becoming?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So I think the easiest way to explain that is
in the research I did. I dove into Lisa Mosconi's work,
and Lisa's work is she did. She wrote a book
called the Menopause Brain a couple of years back, and
she's one of the number one female brain researchers. And
the best way she explains it, and I love this,
is that a woman's brain will rewire itself three times
(05:39):
in her life, and these three times are all initiated
by a dramatic shift in hormones. So in this, when
you start to think it through, it makes logical sense.
So at puberty, when estrogen comes in, the brain will
slough off, prune away the neurons that kept you attached
(06:00):
to a caregiver. So you were attached to your parent
or whoever was the person that was, you know, taking
you along, keeping you alive for most.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Of the time, right.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
But then once you get your period. With having a
period comes the possibility of pregnancy. So your brain has
to rewire itself for independence and so that it can
think on its own. And any mother of a teenager,
me being one of them, will tell you, Yep, that's
exactly what happened. I had an adorable, you know girl
(06:30):
who all of a sudden looked at me like I
was the enemy. But now I understand that makes sense
because her brain rewired in order to start to become
more independent.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh my gosh, that's right. So I mean, yeah, I've
seen it happen three times in my house, most recently.
Just with my new knowledge about the brain and the
estrogen how that impacts it, this is really making so
much sense.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right, And that's I mean, that's been probably the greatest
experience I'm having with this book and these interviews, as
so many people are like, this makes sense. So postpartums
the second time, and what happens because we're so intelligently designed,
is that when the hormones crash after you deliver the baby,
your brain rewires itself again. It gets rid of those
(07:18):
neurons that told you where your keys were, that helped
you keep your task list in your head, that told
you why you walked into the other room. Those neurons
go away because you have a new purpose as a mom,
and that's to become highly intuitive as to what your
baby's needs are. Your baby doesn't talk, So you have
to be able to have a strong intuition to be
(07:42):
able to understand what your baby needs from you. So
you become highly intuitive as the brain rewires itself for
that job.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh my god, my brain is a genius.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I didn't know what was doing. I didn't know it
was It had a plan, and I really thought I
was just I'm flying wild.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, well this is what thank you. This is where
I get really excited because this is what I want
all women to see. So that leaves us with the
third time it rewires itself. So when estrogen drops in
your forties, when you're going through perimenopause, it's a signal
to get rid of the neurons you no longer need.
And you know what, neurons you no longer need, You
(08:22):
no longer need the people pleasing ones.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Would you go so far as to say that the
neuron that is you don't give a fuck what anybody else?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yes, yes, I don't give a fuck what you think.
Neurons start to grow because listeners. Yeah, sorry, the people
pleasing ones go away. But this is the thing, and
this is the big message I want to bring forward,
is what we know is the brain is rewiring itself
for leadership, and a good leader stands in their own
independent thinking. A good leader doesn't fall prey to everybody's
(08:55):
thoughts about them. So you are literally I call it
a get out of jail for all of a sudden,
you don't care what everybody thinks of you because you're
getting a leadership brain. And at a time when we
are like worried that women are scared they're going to
go invisible because of wrinkles or gray hair, when I
look at the brain changes, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(09:18):
don't go invisible. We need the postmenopausal women with this
brain to stand up in independence, a thinking, and start
to lead. I look at the whole world in a
new direction. I really believe that postmenopausal brain is the
one that's here to save the day for us.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh my god, I'm so here for it. Okay, let's
talk about the grandmother hypothesis, because I think that's what
you were just kind of talking about. Yeah, powerful idea
that women were designed to thrive after fertility. So explain
that to us.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, So I wanted to make sure that I backed
up this theory with lots of different things we know
about this process, and I think I've learned a lot
about studying the primal days. If we go back to
the hunter and gatherer days, this is how I found
fasting and what happens to the body. Back when we
didn't have so much access to food, when we didn't
(10:15):
have the creature comforts we have, how did the human
body perform there? And I found something called the grandmother hypothesis,
and what it states is that when a woman went
into her post reproductive years she stopped menstruating, the tribe
knew it that she was a valuable member of society
of the clan. Now she became she needed to be
(10:38):
moved into a new position. And what they knew is
that because all the energy wasn't going towards her reproductive system,
this energy could start to go towards fitness, cognition, and
social leadership. And so back in the hunter gathered days,
it was the post metopausal woman that got moved to
(11:01):
a place of protecting the clan and going out and
foraging for food. Now we have to put our brains
into primal days and realize that they didn't have door
dash and they didn't have refrigerators. They didn't have food
was a really big concern. So the alpha males would
go off and do a big animal kill. They came
(11:23):
back with food three percent of the time, that's one
out of thirty days. Back at the cave, life was
the fertile women who were either pregnant and nursing, and
the toddlers and babies. Somebody had to feed them, and
so it was the grandmothers that gathered around and every
morning they would make a seven hour trek out into
(11:45):
the wilderness to go forge for food and bring food
back to feed the women and children that were left behind.
And the grandmother hypothesis says basically that these posts to
menopausal women were evolutionary heroines that we wouldn't you and
I would not be sitting here talking if it hadn't
(12:07):
been for the grandmothers bringing food to make sure that
the mother and the baby and the children didn't die.
Like our species may have never evolved if we didn't
have the power of the grandmother. Which is so fascinating
right now because so many women are scared of becoming invisible.
But back in the hunter gathered days. No, no, no,
you were going to your highest place of purpose.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right, you were revered.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You were revered, Yes, And I think that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I mean, I've grew up respecting my elders, like just
that's when my parents taught me, and I teach my
girls that because I mean, there's so much wisdom, they
have so much to offer, and it makes perfect sense.
Like when my daughter has a baby, my brain will
kick into that grandmother ysothesis and I will be able
(12:58):
to help her provide for her as she learns how
to provide for her child.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's right, And it doesn't even have to be you
don't have to even have it as a grandmother. I
think this is a big part of the book is
that so much of how we act and behave as
women in this culture is determined by the expectation of
the culture. So we could call it the patriarch. I
look at the patriarch as just power over. But one
(13:24):
of the people I quoted in the book is Carol
Gilligan who discovered that back in the nineteen eighties, which
is when I was a teenager, that girls, when they
moved into those post puberty years started to get taught
by the culture that you are good if you are selfless.
(13:44):
Her research was fascinating to me in this book because
she looked at girls and boys at nine and she
asked them different questions, like what do you want to eat?
And the boy would tell you exactly what he wants
to eat. The girl will tell you exactly what she
wants to eat. By thirteen, you ask them that same question,
the boy will tell you what he wants to eat.
(14:05):
And now the girl's brain is rewired because estrogen has
come in and she'll say to you, I don't know
what are you gonna eat? And a large part of
that is because hormones change the way our brain operated.
And the culture said, you are worthy if you're this size,
if you look this way, if you act this way,
(14:27):
and so we've all become great stewards of pleasing the culture.
But when the hormones go away, all of a sudden,
we're like, we don't give a fuck anymore, we don't
care anymore. But it's bigger than that. We're exhausted trying
to play by a set of rules that some you know,
cultures set for.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Us, and they just don't fit anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It doesn't fit, it doesn't fit at all. So this
is why so many women are waking up, and I
think it can be scary if you've built your whole
wor worth around that external validation. And this is why
I put a whole section in the book of how
(15:07):
do we help women start to step into their most
authentic selves? How do you start speaking your voice if
you've never spoken your voice before?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yes, So for that woman who hears menopause and immediately
feels fear or loss or invisibility, like you said, what's
the very first mindset shift you want photo?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So the first thing is this is a good process
that's happening to your brain. Things are changing, so hang
in there. This isn't how your brain's going to be
for the rest of your life. We really have a
message right now that women are scared of dimension Alzheimer's.
So the minute the memory goes or the brain fog
kicks in, that's where their brain goes. And I want
to repattern that and say, nope, it's like a brain
(15:47):
I call it in the book a brain remodel project.
And anybody who's ever remodeled anything in their house knows
that the demolition of the old is exhausting and dusty
and dirty, and sometimes feels like it's going to go
on forever.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Such a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
That's what's happening to the brain. You can't remember, but
don't hang in there. Your brain is reorganizing itself. It's
remodeling itself. So that would be the first thing that
I want women to understand. It's temporary and it's purposeful.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Oh my gosh, I have hope now, whereas before I thought, oh,
this is my memory is just gone, and this is
what my life is going to be like, I'm not
going to know what I was saying five seconds ago.
So I'm in a remodeling stage. How long does this go?
How long is consisted?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, I need to know. Well, like many construction projects,
a longer than you expect. So you know, they say
it's about ten years, and I think all of us
that would probably knock us out right there understanding that
this remodel project goes ten years. But I want to
offer a different solution for that too, And I did
(16:58):
this in part two of the book, where I wanted
to show people that you actually are a neurochemical being,
and so as you're going through this process, there are
behaviors you can do to get your brain back on track.
So let's use memory as one. One of the major
(17:18):
neurotransmitters that estrogen stimulates is a transmitter called aceta colin,
and aceta coling is the neurotransmitter that gets stimulated when
you tell a story. When you go to tell a story,
you force your brain, especially if it was a story
in the past, it has to dip into a part
(17:39):
of the brain called the hippocampus that's where Alzheimer's lives.
And so if you constantly are sharing stories, and there's
a lot of different ways we can do this, you're
constantly asking your brain to make more aceta coling, so
you're keeping your memory sharp. You're allowing those neurons to
be bathed in this neurotrans admitted that estrogen just naturally
(18:02):
produced for you. Now you've got to go produce it
for yourself. And on the on the storytelling one, I
think we all know have a parent. Mine is my mom,
who is eighty six and tells the same story over
and over and over again, and we all roll our eyes,
and you know, we've gone through the phase of like, Mom,
you've told us that story before, but now that I
(18:24):
understand what she's doing, she's actually bathing her brain in
a seat of coaling. I actually play along.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Now, Oh my gosh, this is incredible. Okay, my mom
just moved in and she's eighty four. Yes, and you're
so right. And sometimes, you know, you don't want to
listen to that same story over and over again, but
you just shifted my whole perception and that is something
that she needs.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's right. So you know what I do with my mom,
I ask her new parts of the story so that
she has to make more a seat of coling, so
she has to go deeper into that memory bank. And
I'll say things like, yeah, you know you've mentioned that before,
but you know what the part of the story I've
never heard is this, Or I go back to some
(19:11):
things I've gone with my mom. I've gone back a
lot and been like, you know, I don't ever remember
you telling me about X, Y and Z, and really storytelling, now,
I look at is a way of keeping her brain.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Sharp, interesting, interesting. So estrogen's decline affects a powerful what
you call girl gang of brain chemicals dopamine, serotonin, GABBA, oxytocin, BDNF,
I don't know what that is, and others.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So in my research, what I found is, and at
first glances sounds horrible, but stick with me here. We're
not just losing a couple of sex hormones. Actually, over
twelve major neurochemicals are affected, and estrogen specifically stimulated dopamine
and serotonin. So dopamine was our motivator. So that's super
(20:04):
important because I heard I've heard so many women in
their mid forties to late forties tell me I'm just
not motivated anymore. That's a loss of dopamine. Serotonin is
what keeps us happy, and so you know, a lot
of women are walking around depressed and not realizing that
their serotonin levels are low. But like serotonin, one of
(20:25):
the easiest ways to get serotonin is we have serotonin
receptor sites in our eyes where we take midday light
and we make it into serotonin through our eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh that's how cool we are.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I just want to point out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
This is like, wow, we are so complex. So you
so instead of reaching for a drug to fix this problem,
this would be a first up. What you're recommending, go outside.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Go outside without your sunglasses on at the like the
height of the sun noon one o'clock, depending on the
time of year, go for a twenty minute walk. Walking
is going to lower cortisol, and now your body knows
how to use that light and turn it into serotonin.
Just don't put your sunglasses.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
On, okay, because that blocks locks in.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, so serotonin we can. There's a lot I have
in the book. I have a lot of ways to
bring each one of these back. Gaba is interesting because
gaba is what calmed us and now get you know estrogen,
both estrogen and progesterone stimulated gabba. But there's a lot
of breathing techniques you can do to bring GABA back.
Like a lot of people are into the box breathing
(21:34):
four seven eight breathing. These are not complicated. I love them. Yeah,
breath So those kind of breathing techniques will bring GABA back.
Oxytocin is a really interesting one because I think you
a lot of women resonate with this where we just
don't feel like we can connect to the superficiality anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yes, yes, that's that kind of aligns with not ye
what you know, and also it aligns with our ability
to now at this age, be able to say that's right.
More like, do I don't want to go to that
I don't. I don't need to go out tonight. I
don't need to go to that dot that's already because.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's all going to be small talk. Small talk's exhausting
to the menopausal brain, especially as it's remodeling itself. But
I'd rather sit home and have a deep conversation with
my spouse or my friends, or hang out with myself
because we are searching for oxytocin in a much deeper way.
So this is why relationships are changing. This is why
(22:33):
you know, I believe grave divorce has become so popular
is because a lot of women are turning to their
spouses and saying, Okay, we need to go deeper now,
and some of those spouses aren't aren't able to emotionally
meet the menopausal woman there.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Okay, what happens in that case? What happens when we
as women want to go deeper and we need more
meaningful connection from our spouse. Are our men just not
you know I've heard before they're not wired that way
or that's the difference between a man and a woman's brain.
Is there something for men that they can do or
some science behind is their mind?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
James James developing Yes, yeah, well the first yeah, well
for startings, the male physiology is not my expertise, but
I but from what I know, they are not. Their
brain does not rewire because they're meant to actually have
tests the same level of testosterone all the way till
the day they die, which is really crazy to think about,
(23:32):
Like what's the primal reason behind that? Like they just
stay fertile their whole life. Now environmental factors are changing
that now. So so the first thing is you need
to get your man caught up to speed in what's
going on with your brain. So in the book, I
actually did an appendix to men where because I thought
(23:52):
a lot of women would read it, find themselves and
then be like, how do I explain this to my husband?
So I synthesized it into one ch so get educated.
And then I really call it invite the man into
your menopausal experience. And this one's really important because this
is not about bitching or nagging or yelling or screaming
(24:14):
at him, which I think we all have done as
our brain has been remodeling. It's more using words like
you know, you can use the remodel, like my brain
is remodeling. I can't remember that my brain is remodeling.
I can't handle that stress.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Oh my gosh, I'm loving this new right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
My brain is remodeling. So I need you to use
some of your feeling words, like tell me how you're feeling.
A lot of men have not been taught how to
express feeling. They've been damaged by the patriarch as much
as women have. Men are taught if you say your feelings,
that's weak and don't be a weak man. So there's
a lot of deep conversations that need to be had
(24:54):
with spouses so that we can start to have better conversations.
But it will I'll take a little bit of retraining
of your partner, but it's going to got to come
through the lens of compassion and understanding from you, not
from pointing your finger at them. I brought on two
relationship experts onto my podcast in preparation for the release
(25:17):
of this book because I know a lot of women
are going to ask, and one of them is a male.
He Both of them work with couples, and one of
them specializes in helping the man in the couple and
Terry Real. I don't know if you've heard of him, no,
but I'm gonna go look him up and Jillian Treki,
(25:37):
who is also beautiful. So what I would say is
this isn't a moment to feel vindicated with your spouse.
It's a moment to express who you are now and
how you're changing, and to tell your spouse what you need.
I can tell you my husband and I met at
(25:57):
twenty one and I'm fifty six now. And one thing
that has been helpful for us in our marriage is
we started to label different parts of our marriage. So
before kids is marriage one point oh, with kids as
marriage two point oh. And what we're in right now
an empty nest, it's marriage three point oh. So there's
(26:19):
a lot of discussion like in marriage three point oh,
I behave like this now in marriage three point oh.
Here's what feels good to me in your reaction to
me now. So we were able to sort of wipe
the slate clean as opposed to bringing thirty years of
being together into this experience. It was almost like our
way of a do over. So there are real positive
(26:42):
ways you can talk to your spouse, but they have
to understand the process, which is why I'm hoping the
appendix will help.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, my question is there are a lot of women
in my position who had a long marriage, had children
with a guy, a man the father of their babies,
and then ended up getting a divorce. Now they would
be what is known as your three point zero of
that relationship. But they're starting all over again with a
guy who's not hasn't had that Perhaps. I know in
(27:09):
my situation, my husband had never had his own children.
He came in and became a stepdad.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
What version of.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Our marriage would we fall into? Because I feel like
I'm in three brain.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But well, I mean, I can tell you what a
lot of my friends who are in that position are
doing is starting off the relationship expressing what they need. Now,
that's what the brain has rewired your brain. Your brain
is rewiring to speak what you need. So if you
need more alone time, express it. If you need to
(27:45):
sleep in separate bedrooms because you're not sleeping well, then
express it. If you need to make sure you have
plenty of time with your girlfriends, express it. So a
lot of women going into these new relationships are finding
so much peace because they have the courage to finally
say what they want. The last thing you want to
do is recreate what you didn't want in the last relationship.
(28:07):
So I think it's always about speaking your truth. And
when you get to the other side of menopause, you
have a truth speaking brain, so use it. If you
think about all these new neurons, I call them baby neurons,
that the old grumpy neurons, the people believing neurons, go
away and you have these new baby neurons. Now train
those baby neurons. And the more you speak your truth,
(28:29):
the easier and the easier it's going to become. But
in any relationship, when women specifically don't speak their truth,
they become resentful, and resentful starts to push it down
until one day it all blows up. One of my
favorite conversations I had this year was with Julie Gottman,
(28:50):
who's a marriage expert, and she explained to me that
women start to get depressed in relationships and resentful in
relationships when they say yes to the things they wanted
to say no to. So what I'm seeing in these
new marriages that that are and relationships that are popping
up postmenopausally is there you are dealing with a truth
(29:14):
telling woman. Your brain is wired for that. So speak
your truth and if you're with a partner that doesn't
love that, then you're with the wrong partner.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
M yeah, okay, I mean loud and clear, right yeah
that lad? Yeah yeah okay. So you say the final stage,
butterflying yourself is all about the emotional reinvention and the
truth telling. Like you were just mentioning, what does that
inner work look like in real life? Like how how
does it help women rewrite the narrative of aging from
(29:46):
the inside out.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
So what I think a lot of women start to
feel are feelings like rage. Let's talk about that for
a moment. There's a lot of women who go through
this process and so much anger comes out. I would
say depressions another really big one that a lot of
women experience. And yes, we can put it at the
(30:10):
neurotransmitter level, or we can start to ask ourselves questions
of like what are you mad about? What are you
angry about? Like sit with yourself and just be like,
what are you really angry about? Some women might need
to get therapy. I put a bunch of lists of
different types of ways that you therapies and styles that
you can dip into in this process. But there has
(30:32):
to be a moment of self inquiry. If we look
at those symptoms as I just want them to go away,
then you miss the moment. The moment is here to
help you build the best life you can possibly live
at the back end of your life. So if you're depressed,
what is it in your life right now that's not working?
(30:52):
Can you get rid of that? If you're anxious, maybe
something going forward in your life is you're not looking
for to doing that, So what can you do to
get rid of it? The rage? I think a lot
of women are rageful because the patriarch has taught us
that you are not worthy if you're not a size
too and you don't and you have a wrinkle on
your face goodbye. Like, we have a lot of feelings
(31:14):
about that. So I think getting in touch with that
is really important. I you know, you back to the
first question you asked me this year was writing this
book was so hard because I had to address all
those things I just mentioned to you, Like where's that
anger coming from? What have I created in my life
(31:35):
that doesn't fit me anymore? So? Butterflying yourself is actually
sitting down and realizing that your brain has changed, and
this is an incredible opportunity to address some of these
deep feelings that you have and deep behaviors that you
don't want to engage in anymore. Can we start to
(31:56):
address those and heal those.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I love that because that will just lead you
into what happens so much is that reinvention as people
call it, that that's what happens at a certain age.
I want to go back, though, because you said something
about rage, and ironically enough, I was at a speaking
(32:20):
event last night and I felt the rage, and I
was like, what is why am I feeling this? There
was a room full of people, but there was one
table off to my left that was a group of
older men and we were talking about women's health, and
they were checked out. They didn't even they didn't care,
they weren't listening, and I kept finding myself speaking directly
(32:44):
to them to see how it was landing, because I
was trying to figure it out. And then I just
stopped wasting my time because I realized they don't They're
just not available to I don't care. So that was
that made me very angry.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So this is a beautiful example because the anger not
just be because of that group of men, but how
many groups of men in your life, haven't been paying
attention to you as a woman. I mean, so many
of us can can feel that, and I think that's
the rage is one where we can start. How you
(33:17):
cure yourself of that is to continue to speak your truth, like,
don't stay silent anymore. We have been raised in a
culture that doesn't like angry women, doesn't like opinionated women.
We like our women to be beautiful and calm and
sweet and don't rock the boat. So so many of
us have been holding in things we want to say
(33:39):
to men, to the culture. And then you get in
a talk and you get a group of men who
aren't paying attention to you, and you've got a lifetime
of unsaid in business going on in your body. And then,
because to me, rage is an action oriented anger, you
weren't just angry, you were like built up rage about
(34:00):
I got to do something about this, and you know
you're giving a speech. It's hard to do that, But
I think I think women should become rageful. I think
we have. We have reason to feel like we've been
marginalized and one of the things and we've been taught
that we're worthy only if you tell us we're beautiful
or you tell us we're a super mom, or you
(34:20):
tell us we're a badass career woman. Like what if
I'm just a kind human? Can't that be worthy enough?
So the marker of success and worth in this culture
is so backwards and it's so inconsistent for women compared
to two men. We have a higher we have a
higher benchmark that we've got to meet.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
It's just tota and getting angrier as we're speaking. But
what do I do with this anger? Because I don't
want to walk around full of rage. I don't want
to walk around angry because I know that's not good
for my health. I know that raises my cortisol levels.
I know that it's not good for me being as
beautiful from the inside out as I.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Want to be. Well. So the first thing is you
express it, you know, don't suppress it anymore. And you
could express it, you know, you get off this call,
call a friend. Journal Journaling is really powerful. Just write
down everything that you're feeling and just get it off.
That's what I want is women to just get it off,
like speak it, get it out, because we've been pushing
(35:23):
it down, and when you push it down, that's the
most unhealthy version of anger. That's where you get autoimmune
disease and cancer and things like that. So we need
to find creative ways to express it. I think that
in the book, I have something that I love I
call the Lime Tree, which is where women. It's a
metaphor and you can read the whole story in the book,
(35:44):
but it's a metaphor where women gather. I think we
need to gather as women in heal now. I think
we need to bring this into the light and talk
about what it's like to be a woman in a
patriarchal society. I can tell you I've sat with a
lot of celebrities and unfortunately, you guys even get it
even worse, the expectation that even your fans have on
(36:06):
like how you should look and behave and be in.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The minute you step outside of that, yeah, it's not anymore.
You're not They're not a fan anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Like our celebrities are held to the highest level of
patriarchal expectation than any other human a female celebrity in
my opinion, and I've worked with a lot of them,
So I think we have to express it. It's the
first thing. Sometimes you have to go back and see
where it came from. And then just in full transparency
(36:37):
in my journey with this, I realized I had a
lot of rage at men. And when I went back
in therapy I started working with an E. M. D. R. Therapist,
I realized it was actually initiated by my dad. And
my dad threatened to hit us. He you know, told
me it was too much. I was naughty all the time,
(36:58):
and so I conform to what he wanted me to be.
And I have some feelings about that, and so any
man that comes in and triggers that in me starts
to build the rage. So I went to therapy. So
therapy is always a good place. And then I think,
like back to the lime tree. As women, we need
to gather around each other and talk about this, just
(37:19):
like what you and I are doing. We've actually are
going to turn the book. We're in the process of
taking the concepts in the book and turning them into
conversation cards so that we can start to open up
the conversation. Because where women are getting sick in all
of this is in the suppression of their voice.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yes, I believe that too. I can't I need those cards.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
They're coming in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I love that that's going to be great, and you've
inspired me, like I am at the place where I
want to have those conversations with women that are in
similar situations, and I want to know what they've suppressed
over the years, and I want them to also able
to express it in a safe group of women that
you know, instead of losing their mind in front of
a guy, a man, it's better, it's safer to do
(38:08):
it in a gathering.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
We were primarily designed to connect with each other as
we go through this, more than any other time in
our life. We were primarily designed to get with other
women and do this as a group of women. This
should not be a solo journey. So if you look
at the grandmother hypothesis, what did the grandmothers do? They
(38:32):
didn't individually go out and forge for food. They came
together as a group and went and got food. They
protected the clan together. And I really believe that that's
part of this rewirement, is how for so long we've
been competing with each other, how about now we come
together and heal with each other. And you know the
(38:53):
Okinawa women that we put them on a pedestal, do
you know. At the heart of what they do is
they create moaes and MOA's are where these women gather
together and they share resources. So if one woman doesn't
have a house, they invite that woman into her home.
If another woman doesn't have food, they invite them over
for dinner, and they get together and play games and connect.
(39:15):
And everybody in the village knows that if you want
good advice, you go to the MOEI that these group
of wise elders are there to teach you the core
principles of life. That's what I want to bring back
culturally for the world is how do we come together
and heal each other and stand up in this real, powerful, bold, independent,
(39:39):
unique way that we can do this so the world
knows where to find the leaders, because at this particular moment,
the leaders that are showing up are pretty defective.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yes, you know, it's funny creating a community. My best
friend Adela and I have talked about that before. We
just want to move some way and have our own
little town. Yes yeah, women, yes, just as girls.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And when we are doing that, people are doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Are I've seen that I'm really want I mean that
seems like, yeah, it's a big change. Probably I don't
know if I can do it yet, but it's in
you're design to do it.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
It would be once you got your wrap, your mind
wrapped around the how it's it's were meant to come
together as women. We're not this is the time. This one.
You hear Jane Fonda say that she wouldn't even exist
without her girlfriends, And I think there's so many women
at this phase of life that say the same thing.
They're like, I can't even breathe without my bestie. And
(40:40):
and that's part of the brain rewirement is we go
to other women for this. Oxytocin hit, Yes, oxytocin.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
This has been such an incredible conversation, doctor Mindy. I
want to thank you so much for helping all of
us to choose a new way of thinking about aging.
I know, well, I have some things to think about.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Excellent.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
After that, I love station and I thank you for that.
But before I let you go, doctor Mendy pals, what
was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Well, okay, I'm going to tell you the last I
Choose me moment that was really really big for me.
This year. I had a tough year. I was in
LA when the fires hit, my whole neighborhood burned. It
was just chaos. And so what I did is for
four months, I isolated myself and I made a decision
(41:31):
to go and live by myself, write this book, and
get to know myself. And I found that when I
got myself out of the environment of my family, even
out of the environment of my friends, that I started
to have a relationship with me again. So I Choose
Me moment was huge this year. It was isolating and
finally getting to know me so that I can bring
(41:54):
back a new version to all my relationships.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Incredible, Probably one of the best top five I Choose
Me moments. Age Like a Girl is out now. You
can buy it wherever you buy books or listen on
audible or on your Libby app.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Jenny
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all
about the choices we make and how they shape our lives. Today,
we're making a choice to embrace a brand new way
of thinking about aging with the incredible doctor Mendy Pels.
Doctor Mindy says menopause isn't the end of anything, It's
the beginning of everything. Her new book, Age Like a Girl,
(00:33):
blends neuroscience and psychology and invites women to transform the
next part of our lives into the most powerful chapter yet.
Please welcome doctor Mendy.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dodor.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Mendy, you say that postmenopausal we have a new brain emerging.
I've never I've never heard it quite said like that.
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh? I love that you've never heard this, because this
is a ten year research project that I've been on
proving that menopause is actually working for us. And what
I mean by it is that the brain rewires itself.
With the drop in sex hormones, primarily estrogen, the brain
starts to take the neurons you no longer need. And
(01:21):
you know what neurons you don't need anymore?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
You know? You don't need the people pleasing neurons. You
don't need. I'm going to fix everybody's life. Neurons Bye,
by neurons exactly all the things that kept us tethered
to everybody else's opinion of us. Those neurons go away
to make room for new neurons that are setting you
up for more independent thinking, more leadership, more focused, better cognition.
(01:49):
These are all things that I discovered in this ten
year research project I call age like a girl.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Age like a girl. You've okay, you said ten years
you've been doing this, and that you also said that
this story is about your own journey and it's deeply personal.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Why Well, so, when I wanted to answer the question
of what was the purpose of menopause, I started to
see some statistics that were saying that if a woman's lucky,
she'll live about forty two point five percent of her
life post reproductively.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I also saw a statistic that said the most common
time for a woman to kill herself is between the
decade of forty five and fifty five. And mixed that
with I had a practice full of women in their
forties where they, on paper, everything in their life looked perfect,
But when I got in behind a closed door, they
(02:42):
would tell me things like I'm suicidal, I'm depressed all
the time. I'm thinking I'm gonna leave my husband, Like
really deep stuff was going on. So ten years ago,
I wanted to understand what was happening to the female
brain as a woman went through this massive neurocheml change.
And in that research, I actually found myself and I
(03:05):
found parts of me that I no longer wanted to
hold on to, the people pleasing parts, the codependent parts.
I had to come to a realization that I had
a bit of a codependent nature, the parts that I
was trying to fix everybody around me. I mean, I
became a doctor and so I wanted to fix everybody's health,
(03:25):
and in that I realized I lost myself and that
I didn't have a relationship with myself. So it's deeply
personal because it started off as a research project, but
when I actually went to go write it, I realized
how much this was my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Your journey, every woman's journey. I think we all reached
that age where we're like, what in the world do
I do? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's right, that's right?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Is this book only for menopausal women.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's such a good question. So the absolute answer is no.
I want to tell you that the most interesting discussions
I've been having with this book are with thirty year
old women. There are so many thirty mid thirty year
old women, late thirty year old women that are saying
to me, thank you because I want to know how
(04:19):
to prepare for menopause.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh I love these women. We do these women have
the information that we didn't have.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yes, thanks to you. Yeah, well, there's a bunch of
us out there trying to bring it forward. So but
then the other age group that I found is really
surprising are the seventy year olds. I've had a lot
of women online and in our membership group really expressed
that they went through menopause in silence, and they weren't
(04:48):
given a butterfly moment. They weren't told that their brain
was rewiring, and so things that I'm pointing out in
this book. They had strong hunches about and are finally
leaning into living life the way they want to live it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
This is so great. You say, menopause isn't a decline
at all. It's a transition into wisdom, leadership, and a
new brain. So for women listening, What does that mean
for who we're all becoming?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So I think the easiest way to explain that is
in the research I did. I dove into Lisa Mosconi's work,
and Lisa's work is she did. She wrote a book
called the Menopause Brain a couple of years back, and
she's one of the number one female brain researchers. And
the best way she explains it, and I love this,
is that a woman's brain will rewire itself three times
(05:39):
in her life, and these three times are all initiated
by a dramatic shift in hormones. So in this, when
you start to think it through, it makes logical sense.
So at puberty, when estrogen comes in, the brain will
slough off, prune away the neurons that kept you attached
(06:00):
to a caregiver. So you were attached to your parent
or whoever was the person that was, you know, taking
you along, keeping you alive for most.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Of the time, right.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
But then once you get your period. With having a
period comes the possibility of pregnancy. So your brain has
to rewire itself for independence and so that it can
think on its own. And any mother of a teenager,
me being one of them, will tell you, Yep, that's
exactly what happened. I had an adorable, you know girl
(06:30):
who all of a sudden looked at me like I
was the enemy. But now I understand that makes sense
because her brain rewired in order to start to become
more independent.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh my gosh, that's right. So I mean, yeah, I've
seen it happen three times in my house, most recently.
Just with my new knowledge about the brain and the
estrogen how that impacts it, this is really making so
much sense.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right, And that's I mean, that's been probably the greatest
experience I'm having with this book and these interviews, as
so many people are like, this makes sense. So postpartums
the second time, and what happens because we're so intelligently designed,
is that when the hormones crash after you deliver the baby,
your brain rewires itself again. It gets rid of those
(07:18):
neurons that told you where your keys were, that helped
you keep your task list in your head, that told
you why you walked into the other room. Those neurons
go away because you have a new purpose as a mom,
and that's to become highly intuitive as to what your
baby's needs are. Your baby doesn't talk, So you have
to be able to have a strong intuition to be
(07:42):
able to understand what your baby needs from you. So
you become highly intuitive as the brain rewires itself for
that job.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh my god, my brain is a genius.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I didn't know what was doing. I didn't know it
was It had a plan, and I really thought I
was just I'm flying wild.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, well this is what thank you. This is where
I get really excited because this is what I want
all women to see. So that leaves us with the
third time it rewires itself. So when estrogen drops in
your forties, when you're going through perimenopause, it's a signal
to get rid of the neurons you no longer need.
And you know what, neurons you no longer need, You
(08:22):
no longer need the people pleasing ones.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Would you go so far as to say that the
neuron that is you don't give a fuck what anybody else?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yes, yes, I don't give a fuck what you think.
Neurons start to grow because listeners. Yeah, sorry, the people
pleasing ones go away. But this is the thing, and
this is the big message I want to bring forward,
is what we know is the brain is rewiring itself
for leadership, and a good leader stands in their own
independent thinking. A good leader doesn't fall prey to everybody's
(08:55):
thoughts about them. So you are literally I call it
a get out of jail for all of a sudden,
you don't care what everybody thinks of you because you're
getting a leadership brain. And at a time when we
are like worried that women are scared they're going to
go invisible because of wrinkles or gray hair, when I
look at the brain changes, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(09:18):
don't go invisible. We need the postmenopausal women with this
brain to stand up in independence, a thinking, and start
to lead. I look at the whole world in a
new direction. I really believe that postmenopausal brain is the
one that's here to save the day for us.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh my god, I'm so here for it. Okay, let's
talk about the grandmother hypothesis, because I think that's what
you were just kind of talking about. Yeah, powerful idea
that women were designed to thrive after fertility. So explain
that to us.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, So I wanted to make sure that I backed
up this theory with lots of different things we know
about this process, and I think I've learned a lot
about studying the primal days. If we go back to
the hunter and gatherer days, this is how I found
fasting and what happens to the body. Back when we
didn't have so much access to food, when we didn't
(10:15):
have the creature comforts we have, how did the human
body perform there? And I found something called the grandmother hypothesis,
and what it states is that when a woman went
into her post reproductive years she stopped menstruating, the tribe
knew it that she was a valuable member of society
of the clan. Now she became she needed to be
(10:38):
moved into a new position. And what they knew is
that because all the energy wasn't going towards her reproductive system,
this energy could start to go towards fitness, cognition, and
social leadership. And so back in the hunter gathered days,
it was the post metopausal woman that got moved to
(11:01):
a place of protecting the clan and going out and
foraging for food. Now we have to put our brains
into primal days and realize that they didn't have door
dash and they didn't have refrigerators. They didn't have food
was a really big concern. So the alpha males would
go off and do a big animal kill. They came
(11:23):
back with food three percent of the time, that's one
out of thirty days. Back at the cave, life was
the fertile women who were either pregnant and nursing, and
the toddlers and babies. Somebody had to feed them, and
so it was the grandmothers that gathered around and every
morning they would make a seven hour trek out into
(11:45):
the wilderness to go forge for food and bring food
back to feed the women and children that were left behind.
And the grandmother hypothesis says basically that these posts to
menopausal women were evolutionary heroines that we wouldn't you and
I would not be sitting here talking if it hadn't
(12:07):
been for the grandmothers bringing food to make sure that
the mother and the baby and the children didn't die.
Like our species may have never evolved if we didn't
have the power of the grandmother. Which is so fascinating
right now because so many women are scared of becoming invisible.
But back in the hunter gathered days. No, no, no,
you were going to your highest place of purpose.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right, you were revered.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You were revered, Yes, And I think that.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I mean, I've grew up respecting my elders, like just
that's when my parents taught me, and I teach my
girls that because I mean, there's so much wisdom, they
have so much to offer, and it makes perfect sense.
Like when my daughter has a baby, my brain will
kick into that grandmother ysothesis and I will be able
(12:58):
to help her provide for her as she learns how
to provide for her child.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's right, And it doesn't even have to be you
don't have to even have it as a grandmother. I
think this is a big part of the book is
that so much of how we act and behave as
women in this culture is determined by the expectation of
the culture. So we could call it the patriarch. I
look at the patriarch as just power over. But one
(13:24):
of the people I quoted in the book is Carol
Gilligan who discovered that back in the nineteen eighties, which
is when I was a teenager, that girls, when they
moved into those post puberty years started to get taught
by the culture that you are good if you are selfless.
(13:44):
Her research was fascinating to me in this book because
she looked at girls and boys at nine and she
asked them different questions, like what do you want to eat?
And the boy would tell you exactly what he wants
to eat. The girl will tell you exactly what she
wants to eat. By thirteen, you ask them that same question,
the boy will tell you what he wants to eat.
(14:05):
And now the girl's brain is rewired because estrogen has
come in and she'll say to you, I don't know
what are you gonna eat? And a large part of
that is because hormones change the way our brain operated.
And the culture said, you are worthy if you're this size,
if you look this way, if you act this way,
(14:27):
and so we've all become great stewards of pleasing the culture.
But when the hormones go away, all of a sudden,
we're like, we don't give a fuck anymore, we don't
care anymore. But it's bigger than that. We're exhausted trying
to play by a set of rules that some you know,
cultures set for.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Us, and they just don't fit anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It doesn't fit, it doesn't fit at all. So this
is why so many women are waking up, and I
think it can be scary if you've built your whole
wor worth around that external validation. And this is why
I put a whole section in the book of how
(15:07):
do we help women start to step into their most
authentic selves? How do you start speaking your voice if
you've never spoken your voice before?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yes, So for that woman who hears menopause and immediately
feels fear or loss or invisibility, like you said, what's
the very first mindset shift you want photo?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So the first thing is this is a good process
that's happening to your brain. Things are changing, so hang
in there. This isn't how your brain's going to be
for the rest of your life. We really have a
message right now that women are scared of dimension Alzheimer's.
So the minute the memory goes or the brain fog
kicks in, that's where their brain goes. And I want
to repattern that and say, nope, it's like a brain
(15:47):
I call it in the book a brain remodel project.
And anybody who's ever remodeled anything in their house knows
that the demolition of the old is exhausting and dusty
and dirty, and sometimes feels like it's going to go
on forever.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Such a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
That's what's happening to the brain. You can't remember, but
don't hang in there. Your brain is reorganizing itself. It's
remodeling itself. So that would be the first thing that
I want women to understand. It's temporary and it's purposeful.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Oh my gosh, I have hope now, whereas before I thought, oh,
this is my memory is just gone, and this is
what my life is going to be like, I'm not
going to know what I was saying five seconds ago.
So I'm in a remodeling stage. How long does this go?
How long is consisted?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, I need to know. Well, like many construction projects,
a longer than you expect. So you know, they say
it's about ten years, and I think all of us
that would probably knock us out right there understanding that
this remodel project goes ten years. But I want to
offer a different solution for that too, And I did
(16:58):
this in part two of the book, where I wanted
to show people that you actually are a neurochemical being,
and so as you're going through this process, there are
behaviors you can do to get your brain back on track.
So let's use memory as one. One of the major
(17:18):
neurotransmitters that estrogen stimulates is a transmitter called aceta colin,
and aceta coling is the neurotransmitter that gets stimulated when
you tell a story. When you go to tell a story,
you force your brain, especially if it was a story
in the past, it has to dip into a part
(17:39):
of the brain called the hippocampus that's where Alzheimer's lives.
And so if you constantly are sharing stories, and there's
a lot of different ways we can do this, you're
constantly asking your brain to make more aceta coling, so
you're keeping your memory sharp. You're allowing those neurons to
be bathed in this neurotrans admitted that estrogen just naturally
(18:02):
produced for you. Now you've got to go produce it
for yourself. And on the on the storytelling one, I
think we all know have a parent. Mine is my mom,
who is eighty six and tells the same story over
and over and over again, and we all roll our eyes,
and you know, we've gone through the phase of like, Mom,
you've told us that story before, but now that I
(18:24):
understand what she's doing, she's actually bathing her brain in
a seat of coaling. I actually play along.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Now, Oh my gosh, this is incredible. Okay, my mom
just moved in and she's eighty four. Yes, and you're
so right. And sometimes, you know, you don't want to
listen to that same story over and over again, but
you just shifted my whole perception and that is something
that she needs.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's right. So you know what I do with my mom,
I ask her new parts of the story so that
she has to make more a seat of coling, so
she has to go deeper into that memory bank. And
I'll say things like, yeah, you know you've mentioned that before,
but you know what the part of the story I've
never heard is this, Or I go back to some
(19:11):
things I've gone with my mom. I've gone back a
lot and been like, you know, I don't ever remember
you telling me about X, Y and Z, and really storytelling, now,
I look at is a way of keeping her brain.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Sharp, interesting, interesting. So estrogen's decline affects a powerful what
you call girl gang of brain chemicals dopamine, serotonin, GABBA, oxytocin, BDNF,
I don't know what that is, and others.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So in my research, what I found is, and at
first glances sounds horrible, but stick with me here. We're
not just losing a couple of sex hormones. Actually, over
twelve major neurochemicals are affected, and estrogen specifically stimulated dopamine
and serotonin. So dopamine was our motivator. So that's super
(20:04):
important because I heard I've heard so many women in
their mid forties to late forties tell me I'm just
not motivated anymore. That's a loss of dopamine. Serotonin is
what keeps us happy, and so you know, a lot
of women are walking around depressed and not realizing that
their serotonin levels are low. But like serotonin, one of
(20:25):
the easiest ways to get serotonin is we have serotonin
receptor sites in our eyes where we take midday light
and we make it into serotonin through our eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh that's how cool we are.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I just want to point out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
This is like, wow, we are so complex. So you
so instead of reaching for a drug to fix this problem,
this would be a first up. What you're recommending, go outside.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Go outside without your sunglasses on at the like the
height of the sun noon one o'clock, depending on the
time of year, go for a twenty minute walk. Walking
is going to lower cortisol, and now your body knows
how to use that light and turn it into serotonin.
Just don't put your sunglasses.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
On, okay, because that blocks locks in.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, so serotonin we can. There's a lot I have
in the book. I have a lot of ways to
bring each one of these back. Gaba is interesting because
gaba is what calmed us and now get you know estrogen,
both estrogen and progesterone stimulated gabba. But there's a lot
of breathing techniques you can do to bring GABA back.
Like a lot of people are into the box breathing
(21:34):
four seven eight breathing. These are not complicated. I love them. Yeah,
breath So those kind of breathing techniques will bring GABA back.
Oxytocin is a really interesting one because I think you
a lot of women resonate with this where we just
don't feel like we can connect to the superficiality anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yes, yes, that's that kind of aligns with not ye
what you know, and also it aligns with our ability
to now at this age, be able to say that's right.
More like, do I don't want to go to that
I don't. I don't need to go out tonight. I
don't need to go to that dot that's already because.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's all going to be small talk. Small talk's exhausting
to the menopausal brain, especially as it's remodeling itself. But
I'd rather sit home and have a deep conversation with
my spouse or my friends, or hang out with myself
because we are searching for oxytocin in a much deeper way.
So this is why relationships are changing. This is why
(22:33):
you know, I believe grave divorce has become so popular
is because a lot of women are turning to their
spouses and saying, Okay, we need to go deeper now,
and some of those spouses aren't aren't able to emotionally
meet the menopausal woman there.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Okay, what happens in that case? What happens when we
as women want to go deeper and we need more
meaningful connection from our spouse. Are our men just not
you know I've heard before they're not wired that way
or that's the difference between a man and a woman's brain.
Is there something for men that they can do or
some science behind is their mind?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
James James developing Yes, yeah, well the first yeah, well
for startings, the male physiology is not my expertise, but
I but from what I know, they are not. Their
brain does not rewire because they're meant to actually have
tests the same level of testosterone all the way till
the day they die, which is really crazy to think about,
(23:32):
Like what's the primal reason behind that? Like they just
stay fertile their whole life. Now environmental factors are changing
that now. So so the first thing is you need
to get your man caught up to speed in what's
going on with your brain. So in the book, I
actually did an appendix to men where because I thought
(23:52):
a lot of women would read it, find themselves and
then be like, how do I explain this to my husband?
So I synthesized it into one ch so get educated.
And then I really call it invite the man into
your menopausal experience. And this one's really important because this
is not about bitching or nagging or yelling or screaming
(24:14):
at him, which I think we all have done as
our brain has been remodeling. It's more using words like
you know, you can use the remodel, like my brain
is remodeling. I can't remember that my brain is remodeling.
I can't handle that stress.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Oh my gosh, I'm loving this new right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
My brain is remodeling. So I need you to use
some of your feeling words, like tell me how you're feeling.
A lot of men have not been taught how to
express feeling. They've been damaged by the patriarch as much
as women have. Men are taught if you say your feelings,
that's weak and don't be a weak man. So there's
a lot of deep conversations that need to be had
(24:54):
with spouses so that we can start to have better conversations.
But it will I'll take a little bit of retraining
of your partner, but it's going to got to come
through the lens of compassion and understanding from you, not
from pointing your finger at them. I brought on two
relationship experts onto my podcast in preparation for the release
(25:17):
of this book because I know a lot of women
are going to ask, and one of them is a male.
He Both of them work with couples, and one of
them specializes in helping the man in the couple and
Terry Real. I don't know if you've heard of him, no,
but I'm gonna go look him up and Jillian Treki,
(25:37):
who is also beautiful. So what I would say is
this isn't a moment to feel vindicated with your spouse.
It's a moment to express who you are now and
how you're changing, and to tell your spouse what you need.
I can tell you my husband and I met at
(25:57):
twenty one and I'm fifty six now. And one thing
that has been helpful for us in our marriage is
we started to label different parts of our marriage. So
before kids is marriage one point oh, with kids as
marriage two point oh. And what we're in right now
an empty nest, it's marriage three point oh. So there's
(26:19):
a lot of discussion like in marriage three point oh,
I behave like this now in marriage three point oh.
Here's what feels good to me in your reaction to
me now. So we were able to sort of wipe
the slate clean as opposed to bringing thirty years of
being together into this experience. It was almost like our
way of a do over. So there are real positive
(26:42):
ways you can talk to your spouse, but they have
to understand the process, which is why I'm hoping the
appendix will help.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, my question is there are a lot of women
in my position who had a long marriage, had children
with a guy, a man the father of their babies,
and then ended up getting a divorce. Now they would
be what is known as your three point zero of
that relationship. But they're starting all over again with a
guy who's not hasn't had that Perhaps. I know in
(27:09):
my situation, my husband had never had his own children.
He came in and became a stepdad.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
What version of.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Our marriage would we fall into? Because I feel like
I'm in three brain.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But well, I mean, I can tell you what a
lot of my friends who are in that position are
doing is starting off the relationship expressing what they need. Now,
that's what the brain has rewired your brain. Your brain
is rewiring to speak what you need. So if you
need more alone time, express it. If you need to
(27:45):
sleep in separate bedrooms because you're not sleeping well, then
express it. If you need to make sure you have
plenty of time with your girlfriends, express it. So a
lot of women going into these new relationships are finding
so much peace because they have the courage to finally
say what they want. The last thing you want to
do is recreate what you didn't want in the last relationship.
(28:07):
So I think it's always about speaking your truth. And
when you get to the other side of menopause, you
have a truth speaking brain, so use it. If you
think about all these new neurons, I call them baby neurons,
that the old grumpy neurons, the people believing neurons, go
away and you have these new baby neurons. Now train
those baby neurons. And the more you speak your truth,
(28:29):
the easier and the easier it's going to become. But
in any relationship, when women specifically don't speak their truth,
they become resentful, and resentful starts to push it down
until one day it all blows up. One of my
favorite conversations I had this year was with Julie Gottman,
(28:50):
who's a marriage expert, and she explained to me that
women start to get depressed in relationships and resentful in
relationships when they say yes to the things they wanted
to say no to. So what I'm seeing in these
new marriages that that are and relationships that are popping
up postmenopausally is there you are dealing with a truth
(29:14):
telling woman. Your brain is wired for that. So speak
your truth and if you're with a partner that doesn't
love that, then you're with the wrong partner.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
M yeah, okay, I mean loud and clear, right yeah
that lad? Yeah yeah okay. So you say the final stage,
butterflying yourself is all about the emotional reinvention and the
truth telling. Like you were just mentioning, what does that
inner work look like in real life? Like how how
does it help women rewrite the narrative of aging from
(29:46):
the inside out.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
So what I think a lot of women start to
feel are feelings like rage. Let's talk about that for
a moment. There's a lot of women who go through
this process and so much anger comes out. I would
say depressions another really big one that a lot of
women experience. And yes, we can put it at the
(30:10):
neurotransmitter level, or we can start to ask ourselves questions
of like what are you mad about? What are you
angry about? Like sit with yourself and just be like,
what are you really angry about? Some women might need
to get therapy. I put a bunch of lists of
different types of ways that you therapies and styles that
you can dip into in this process. But there has
(30:32):
to be a moment of self inquiry. If we look
at those symptoms as I just want them to go away,
then you miss the moment. The moment is here to
help you build the best life you can possibly live
at the back end of your life. So if you're depressed,
what is it in your life right now that's not working?
(30:52):
Can you get rid of that? If you're anxious, maybe
something going forward in your life is you're not looking
for to doing that, So what can you do to
get rid of it? The rage? I think a lot
of women are rageful because the patriarch has taught us
that you are not worthy if you're not a size
too and you don't and you have a wrinkle on
your face goodbye. Like, we have a lot of feelings
(31:14):
about that. So I think getting in touch with that
is really important. I you know, you back to the
first question you asked me this year was writing this
book was so hard because I had to address all
those things I just mentioned to you, Like where's that
anger coming from? What have I created in my life
(31:35):
that doesn't fit me anymore? So? Butterflying yourself is actually
sitting down and realizing that your brain has changed, and
this is an incredible opportunity to address some of these
deep feelings that you have and deep behaviors that you
don't want to engage in anymore. Can we start to
(31:56):
address those and heal those.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I love that because that will just lead you
into what happens so much is that reinvention as people
call it, that that's what happens at a certain age.
I want to go back, though, because you said something
about rage, and ironically enough, I was at a speaking
(32:20):
event last night and I felt the rage, and I
was like, what is why am I feeling this? There
was a room full of people, but there was one
table off to my left that was a group of
older men and we were talking about women's health, and
they were checked out. They didn't even they didn't care,
they weren't listening, and I kept finding myself speaking directly
(32:44):
to them to see how it was landing, because I
was trying to figure it out. And then I just
stopped wasting my time because I realized they don't They're
just not available to I don't care. So that was
that made me very angry.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So this is a beautiful example because the anger not
just be because of that group of men, but how
many groups of men in your life, haven't been paying
attention to you as a woman. I mean, so many
of us can can feel that, and I think that's
the rage is one where we can start. How you
(33:17):
cure yourself of that is to continue to speak your truth, like,
don't stay silent anymore. We have been raised in a
culture that doesn't like angry women, doesn't like opinionated women.
We like our women to be beautiful and calm and
sweet and don't rock the boat. So so many of
us have been holding in things we want to say
(33:39):
to men, to the culture. And then you get in
a talk and you get a group of men who
aren't paying attention to you, and you've got a lifetime
of unsaid in business going on in your body. And then,
because to me, rage is an action oriented anger, you
weren't just angry, you were like built up rage about
(34:00):
I got to do something about this, and you know
you're giving a speech. It's hard to do that, But
I think I think women should become rageful. I think
we have. We have reason to feel like we've been
marginalized and one of the things and we've been taught
that we're worthy only if you tell us we're beautiful
or you tell us we're a super mom, or you
(34:20):
tell us we're a badass career woman. Like what if
I'm just a kind human? Can't that be worthy enough?
So the marker of success and worth in this culture
is so backwards and it's so inconsistent for women compared
to two men. We have a higher we have a
higher benchmark that we've got to meet.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
It's just tota and getting angrier as we're speaking. But
what do I do with this anger? Because I don't
want to walk around full of rage. I don't want
to walk around angry because I know that's not good
for my health. I know that raises my cortisol levels.
I know that it's not good for me being as
beautiful from the inside out as I.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Want to be. Well. So the first thing is you
express it, you know, don't suppress it anymore. And you
could express it, you know, you get off this call,
call a friend. Journal Journaling is really powerful. Just write
down everything that you're feeling and just get it off.
That's what I want is women to just get it off,
like speak it, get it out, because we've been pushing
(35:23):
it down, and when you push it down, that's the
most unhealthy version of anger. That's where you get autoimmune
disease and cancer and things like that. So we need
to find creative ways to express it. I think that
in the book, I have something that I love I
call the Lime Tree, which is where women. It's a
metaphor and you can read the whole story in the book,
(35:44):
but it's a metaphor where women gather. I think we
need to gather as women in heal now. I think
we need to bring this into the light and talk
about what it's like to be a woman in a
patriarchal society. I can tell you I've sat with a
lot of celebrities and unfortunately, you guys even get it
even worse, the expectation that even your fans have on
(36:06):
like how you should look and behave and be in.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The minute you step outside of that, yeah, it's not anymore.
You're not They're not a fan anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Like our celebrities are held to the highest level of
patriarchal expectation than any other human a female celebrity in
my opinion, and I've worked with a lot of them,
So I think we have to express it. It's the
first thing. Sometimes you have to go back and see
where it came from. And then just in full transparency
(36:37):
in my journey with this, I realized I had a
lot of rage at men. And when I went back
in therapy I started working with an E. M. D. R. Therapist,
I realized it was actually initiated by my dad. And
my dad threatened to hit us. He you know, told
me it was too much. I was naughty all the time,
(36:58):
and so I conform to what he wanted me to be.
And I have some feelings about that, and so any
man that comes in and triggers that in me starts
to build the rage. So I went to therapy. So
therapy is always a good place. And then I think,
like back to the lime tree. As women, we need
to gather around each other and talk about this, just
(37:19):
like what you and I are doing. We've actually are
going to turn the book. We're in the process of
taking the concepts in the book and turning them into
conversation cards so that we can start to open up
the conversation. Because where women are getting sick in all
of this is in the suppression of their voice.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yes, I believe that too. I can't I need those cards.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
They're coming in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I love that that's going to be great, and you've
inspired me, like I am at the place where I
want to have those conversations with women that are in
similar situations, and I want to know what they've suppressed
over the years, and I want them to also able
to express it in a safe group of women that
you know, instead of losing their mind in front of
a guy, a man, it's better, it's safer to do
(38:08):
it in a gathering.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
We were primarily designed to connect with each other as
we go through this, more than any other time in
our life. We were primarily designed to get with other
women and do this as a group of women. This
should not be a solo journey. So if you look
at the grandmother hypothesis, what did the grandmothers do? They
(38:32):
didn't individually go out and forge for food. They came
together as a group and went and got food. They
protected the clan together. And I really believe that that's
part of this rewirement, is how for so long we've
been competing with each other, how about now we come
together and heal with each other. And you know the
(38:53):
Okinawa women that we put them on a pedestal, do
you know. At the heart of what they do is
they create moaes and MOA's are where these women gather
together and they share resources. So if one woman doesn't
have a house, they invite that woman into her home.
If another woman doesn't have food, they invite them over
for dinner, and they get together and play games and connect.
(39:15):
And everybody in the village knows that if you want
good advice, you go to the MOEI that these group
of wise elders are there to teach you the core
principles of life. That's what I want to bring back
culturally for the world is how do we come together
and heal each other and stand up in this real, powerful, bold, independent,
(39:39):
unique way that we can do this so the world
knows where to find the leaders, because at this particular moment,
the leaders that are showing up are pretty defective.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yes, you know, it's funny creating a community. My best
friend Adela and I have talked about that before. We
just want to move some way and have our own
little town. Yes yeah, women, yes, just as girls.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And when we are doing that, people are doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Are I've seen that I'm really want I mean that
seems like, yeah, it's a big change. Probably I don't
know if I can do it yet, but it's in
you're design to do it.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
It would be once you got your wrap, your mind
wrapped around the how it's it's were meant to come
together as women. We're not this is the time. This one.
You hear Jane Fonda say that she wouldn't even exist
without her girlfriends, And I think there's so many women
at this phase of life that say the same thing.
They're like, I can't even breathe without my bestie. And
(40:40):
and that's part of the brain rewirement is we go
to other women for this. Oxytocin hit, Yes, oxytocin.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
This has been such an incredible conversation, doctor Mindy. I
want to thank you so much for helping all of
us to choose a new way of thinking about aging.
I know, well, I have some things to think about.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Excellent.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
After that, I love station and I thank you for that.
But before I let you go, doctor Mendy pals, what
was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Well, okay, I'm going to tell you the last I
Choose me moment that was really really big for me.
This year. I had a tough year. I was in
LA when the fires hit, my whole neighborhood burned. It
was just chaos. And so what I did is for
four months, I isolated myself and I made a decision
(41:31):
to go and live by myself, write this book, and
get to know myself. And I found that when I
got myself out of the environment of my family, even
out of the environment of my friends, that I started
to have a relationship with me again. So I Choose
Me moment was huge this year. It was isolating and
finally getting to know me so that I can bring
(41:54):
back a new version to all my relationships.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Incredible, Probably one of the best top five I Choose
Me moments. Age Like a Girl is out now. You
can buy it wherever you buy books or listen on
audible or on your Libby app.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Jenny
Host
Jennie Garth
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.