June 12, 2024 • 45 mins
In part 2 of this conversation, Jennie is again joined by her ex-husband and co-parenting partner, actor Peter Facinelli. Together they continue their in-depth discussion about their co-parenting journey and how they incorporated step-parents and significant others into their lives.
Jennie is also joined by licensed therapist and friend, Adele House, to debrief and unpack her feelings in the days following this emotional conversation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. Today,
I want to share part two of my conversation with
my ex husband and co parenting partner, Peter Factionelli. If
(00:25):
you haven't listened to part one, you're going to want
to go back and do that, so you're all caught up.
The reason I wanted to continue this conversation about divorce
and co parenting is because it's an important conversation to have,
not only for me and Peter, but maybe for you
as well. I'm also going to want to break this
(00:46):
conversation down and kind of talk about how it affected
me and made me feel. So I am going to
be talking to Adele a little later on in this episode,
but let's do this. Let's dive back into my chat
with Peter.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I also feel like we were very codependent on each
other because we were so young that it was like
that we were all that we knew, you know what
I mean, So like I was co dependent on you
in an emotional way, you were co dependent on me
in an emotional ways, So you know it was I
think that that was not not the best.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Uh you know, what do you mean dependent? Like what
does that mean? Uh? Like that term for me is
kind of fifty to fifty codependent.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It was like like I said, I I what do
you want for dinner? I don't know, I didn't know
what what what? What choices to have? It was like, well,
what do you want for dinner? You know what I mean?
What do you where do you want to live? What
do I think? It was? It was maybe you didn't
see it as much because I was kind of living
your in your life, you know what I mean, Like
(01:59):
you have life that was established already, and I kind
of came into it and I kind of moved into
this established life. So for you, you're like, this is great.
I've got a husband and I've got dogs, and I've
got a house and this house now we have together
and I remember, you know, but it was like, you know,
I didn't really feel like I had many decisions within
(02:24):
that space. It was like how do I serve this
my wife.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And make her happy?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You know, because of a happy wife, happy life, right,
So You're like, how do.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I make her?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
She wants to go up to your ranch this weekend. Okay,
I'll go. Pardon me. Didn't really want to go, but
I was like, I'll just go and I'll drive and
i'll drive back and I'll you know, do this over here,
and I'll do this over there, and I'll plan the vacations.
Then I'll do this. I was like, you know, I
didn't have a lot of choices. It was just part
(03:00):
that I was felt like, you know, I was good
at playing, but I just didn't. I hadn't formed me yet,
you know what I mean. So you had already formed you,
so like there was a codependency there in the sense
of like I don't know, I don't know what choices,
what I liked, what I don't like, I don't know
(03:21):
what I like, you know, Like I said, it was
really interesting when we broke up because it was like,
I don't know what my my likes and dislikes are,
Like I have to kind of rediscover who I am.
And you probably had to do that too.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
There's a lot of you that was like, you know,
now you're an independent person, and then you have these
two independent figures that are like, Okay, I'm kind of
figuring out what I like and I'm like, I'm figuring
out what I like. And then well, now we got
to come together to co parent, you know, and so
some of that independence is like, well, no, I want
to hold on to this, you know, this is how
I want to do parent, and this is You're like,
(03:54):
this is how I.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Want to parent, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And so then the problems are I was there because
it was like we were so used to like just
kind of servicing each other within this relationship. But we
were kids, you know, So yeah, I mean it's just, uh,
it was. It was. There were good times and there
were bad times, but we got we got through these.
(04:17):
Even the bad times we got through in the sense
of like our kids always came out of it. And
so even you know, like I said before, it's not
fun being uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is kind of where you grow.
And and so there's a lot of times of uncomfortability
for both of us too, and we were growing. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Let's talk about briefly, like step parents bringing in another
person to the mix. We did that, not initially. Neither
of us got married right away, but we both had
a few relationships left and right, and the girls would
(05:00):
get close, i know, with with from my perspective, your
relationship after we were demorse, the girls got close with
your then girlfriend, and that was very very, very very
difficult for me. I wondered how you felt when another
(05:21):
guy came in. I don't think I ever was really
serious with anybody until Dave.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean it was a catch showing too, because like
I had a longer term person there that was getting
close to them, and so that was hard to watch
them go through that have another person leave. You know
that I couldn't, you know, I had nothing that I
could that I could do to help that or not
have that happen. It was just it's what happened. And
(05:47):
I felt bad having them be an effect of that
because I was with that person for a few years.
And then on your side, you were you were having
people come into their lives and then kind of you know,
leaving in short spurts, you know what I mean. I know,
like they would go on vacation with the guy and
then kind of get to know him, and then you
would move on to somebody else, and it was you
(06:07):
kind of you know dating, uh, and you're like, I
think this person is safe enough to introduce them and
then and then they would so they had these shorter
amounts of like this guy that they would get to know.
And for me, it was like I just kind of
had to trust you, you know, I had to go, Okay,
well she trusts this person, then I have to trust them,
you know what I mean. I was never I never
(06:28):
felt jealous of another person coming in because I always
felt that the more love that the kids had, the
the better. Yeah. I mean, so you know, I was
never enough competition to go, well, I'm the dad here.
I think that it was harder on you for that
being the mom, you know, watching another person come in.
(06:49):
But for me, I was like, you know, when Dave
came in, I was like, he's a wonderful guy, and
like I'm and the kids really enjoyed being with him,
and and so it made me smile that he had
they had another person that loved them so much, you know.
And I think that they're incredibly lucky to have. You know,
they have a stepmom now in my current partner, Lily,
(07:10):
and and they have Dave, and like they have these
That's why, like I don't look at it like it's
a burden that they have to carry for the rest
of their lives of this divorce. I really look at it, like, Wow,
there's they're incredibly fortunate to have had now these stepparents
that that they've gotten to know, that that have added
(07:32):
to their personalities, that have that they've grown through them
as well, you know. And and then I also think
that they're going to be lucky that they can look
to your relationship with Dave and and and you know,
get inspired by the love there. And they can look
at the relationship between me and my partner and get
inspired by that relationship, you know. And I know you've had,
(07:54):
you know, your things with Dave, and they've watched you
come out the other side and grow through that. And
and so I maybe maybe that's why there's they're so
great because we kind of had a lot of mistakes
happen we were growing up, we were growing up, and
they were kind of learning from our mistakes in some ways.
And uh, but I but I don't think that there's
any any perfect parenting textbook model. I mean even now,
(08:19):
like I'm a new dad, you know, I have a
twenty month old, and like people are like, oh, well,
you have three kids, you must be a pro at it.
Now I'm like no. I it's like every kid is
so different and they they require different things, and then
the game keeps changing because like, you know, things that
I did with my kids are like, oh, don't do
(08:41):
that now.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I remember when when when Jack was younger and I
went to go take a nap with him, I used
to take naps with like Luca Bella on my chest,
like outside on the swing like like this.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You know you can't do that now.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
No, They're like, you know, don't don't take a nap
with your child and your chest. They could suffocate them.
Like really I used to do that with look them.
It's like, uh, well that's just you know, no seriously,
Like there's studies now that a lot of parents I
guess would fall asleep and their kid would get I
don't know, suffocate, So like you can't, Yeah, you can't
do that now. It's like all new rules. There was.
(09:17):
What's the other one is? Oh uh, you know when
we were parenting, you know, our kids, we were like
every time they did something wonderful, You're like, oh, I'm
so proud of you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And I was like as a parent, having parents that
you know, on the other spectrum like kind of left
me to do my thing, and if I got a
ninety nine, my mom would be like, oh, well that's great,
get a hundred next time, which maybe more of a
perfectionist if anything. But like now they're like, don't say
I'm so proud of you to your kid.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I'm like, real, wait why.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Because if you say I'm so proud of you for
what they do, then they're looking outside sources for for like, oh,
I'm getting these grades for you, so I feel good
from the outside, right. So there, So there's all these
articles now that like you're supposed to say to your kid, well,
how do you feel about that? Are you proud of yourself? Yeah,
(10:07):
well that's so wonderful. I'm so happy that you're proud
of the work that you did. And so like, look
at that.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I just learned something.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah you look at that, and I'm like, well, I
thought I knew these answers, and you know, in five
ten years that might be like, no, you're supposed to
say you're proud of them. You're like, wait to say it,
But I get that. I get that, Like, Okay, if
you keep telling them you're proud of them, then they're
going to always do something to please the parent, and
then they become people pleasers, right, and yeah, it makes sense.
(10:34):
So then you're just like, okay, so I'll make sure
that they know that they're doing that work, that artwork
is something that they should be proud of. Because if
you self generate that you're proud of your work, then
you don't need any outside forces to tell you it's good.
And that's kind of an interesting model.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So, I mean, can you imagine if we hadn't learned
if we knew the things now that we if we
knew that then as parents, Yeah, I wonder how different things.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't know. I don't know, but again, I feel
like we did something right.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I asked you the question about, like, you know, what
do you think co parenting is? And I just kind
of want to answer it for myself that it's about
respect for the partner, the baby partner ultimately in that
communication that comes from that place of respect, which was
something we were definitely challenged on. I think that I
was very in tune with keeping their childhoods alive even
(11:36):
though their lives had changed so much. That's very challenging,
especially when they're going back and forth between two different homes.
You talked about the girls having to pack a bag.
That for me was one of the most heart wrenching
parts of it was because I would go try to
help them pack or you know, say, would you like
(11:57):
me to help you in the Fiona specifically would be like, no,
to do it myself, and it would rip my heart
out because I felt responsible for her having to pack
a bag every week like a like be so unsettled,
you know. I felt like it's my fault, our fault
that they have to do this, and it's unfortunate, you know.
(12:17):
I feel like, Oh, my kid's living out of a suitcase.
And just when she would go to your house and
get settled in and comfortable and that you would get
the pace going and you guys would start getting on
the same page and everybody would be happy. Then, like
you said, it would be time for them to come
to my house, and then there was that whole different
readjustment period. I think so that all plays into the
(12:38):
respect not just for you, but for them and also
for me. I I think it's probably was really hard
for them to understand why because they never saw us fight.
They never they never understood why we broke up, and
I also still don't know that they do, but I
feel like they get it in a different way now.
(12:59):
But for me, it was remind remembering to remind them
that they came from a place of love, like they
were born into love, and you know, because they can
take on the feelings of why it didn't work or
why my family's not together anymore. So those are some
(13:21):
of the most important parts of co parenting for me.
I would ask you, though, what is it that you
love the most about being a co parent with me?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean, I think, like I said, even when we
didn't agree on things, and even sometimes when, like you know,
we text back and forth and we knew how to
press each other's buttons too. Oh right now, yeah, I
want to know you already did with the plant attacking me.
I know you did that on purpose. But you know,
(13:56):
I really see sometimes a lot of you and our
kids and it makes me smile, It really does. Like
and the things that they do and the way they
handle themselves. I think you're an incredibly strong woman. I
think the kids see you as a strong woman. I
think that you know there's a there's an inner strength
that they carry because of that, and so you know,
(14:20):
I think there's a lot of wonderful things that you
modeled for them and and and you know, teaching them.
And I'm appreciative of that, you know. Uh, And I'm
very appreciative that I had a co parent that that
cared so much. I think that both of us cared
sometimes so much that we were like, no, this is
the way we have to do it. This is the
(14:41):
way we have to do it. And it was hard
to find the you know, the right way or the
way that you know, the middle ground on that and frustrating,
I'm sure for both for you and me, it was
just like wow, how because because even when we saw
each other's points, it was like okay, but it becomes
so important to go to each other that if if
(15:05):
it's if they're not parented this way, then something. And
that's where I say that they're resilient because like you know,
they're whatever we decide the ultimate goal, Uh, they're gonna
be okay. And they were and they they're so wonderful.
So like, you know, I'm appreciative that I have Mother's
Day was recently and I remember thinking you on Mother's
(15:27):
Day and thinking, well, you know, she she was so
wonderfully there and available all the time. Like, uh, for me,
I was on the other opposite of special. So I
was always there, but I let them kind of be
you know, uh, and you were always there, but you
were like making sure that they you know, we're like
(15:48):
very protective and it's like in a way that was
very loving. So yeah, I think that the balance of that,
you know, like like when I said I had it
on one extreme, you had it in the other extreme.
In some weird way, having it on both, you know,
one weekend be this and one weekend be that, they
kind of grew to this middle middle ground of that.
(16:11):
You know, maybe maybe that's what worked. Maybe we didn't
know what we're doing in that sense and it kind
of came together. But the proof is in the pudding,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The proof is, yes, I got that one.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I grew up with Italian immigrants for parents, so like
sometimes I get words backwards.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You mix things up, phrasing raising, which always makes you laugh. Yeah,
I think we did. Okay, thank you for talking it out.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Thanks for I feel like this was wonderful. Actually, I
coming into it, I was like, I think this is
gonna be really wonderfully healing for us, because we never
really sat down and talked about our styles of parent
thing or you know, where we were coming from. It
was always like I think should do this, I think
we do that, and I don't agree, and I do agree.
And then there were times we were like, oh, we
(17:07):
got to sit down, you know, come together on this
because this is a big one. And we did, you
know a lot of times. Yeah, when we were always
we had each other's backs. Yeah, you know, there there
was a mostly like smaller things we'd argue about, but
the bigger things were like, no, this is this is
a big one. But that said, like I know we're
(17:29):
coming out at the other end of it, but like
I'm excited to continue co parenting we have, you know,
now we get to co parent adult we're done. Yeah,
well I don't think you're ever done, as apparently you're
We're always going to be each other's lives. It grows
into adult parenting, you know, and a lot of times now,
you know, I can go to the kids and be
(17:50):
like what are you feeling? You know, but we do
still check in with each other, and I think if
we took anything out of this, we should communicate more,
you know, by phone on any of the issues.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Oh Okay,
there is a lot too unpack with this conversation, so
I'm going to need to bring in my friend and
our therapist, Adele to talk through some of this with me. Hi, Hi,
(18:24):
can you believe what just happened?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I can, and I can't. It was kind of epic
that you guys did that. I feel incredibly proud of
both of you and so happy that you did it.
But I'm still kind of reeling, So you must be
just like, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You know, after we completed the interview or the conversation
or whatever you want to call it, I felt unsettled, honestly,
Like revisiting those things and even just sitting with him
and talking one on one with him was different because
we don't really do anything that's not just about the girls. Logistically.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, I wondered about that, Like sitting on a couch
with him in a room, just the two of you,
eye contact and really processing what you went through.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, it was weird. I felt a little spinny the
whole rest of the day, spinny and exhaust It kind
of took it out of me.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, Yeah, I noticed at one point you got a
little emotional, and do you remember when it was? It
was that moment that you took responsibility, which I have
to say was kind of my favorite thing about the
whole interview is both of you were in a place
where you could see your part more clearly. And I
(19:57):
heard you start to talk about the times when you
were sharing custody and that you understand that you had
operated from a selfish place and you wish you hadn't,
And I heard a catch in your throat.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I think, I know that it's natural, you know, instinctual
survival to operate from a place of selfishness in that
situation that we were, that I was in that, you know,
And I think they're going to always be emotions around
that that time of my life, you know, because it was, Yeah,
(20:36):
it was defining. And I think that I don't know
that I've ever really told him like, yeah, I could
have done things better, I could have done things differently
if I had known than what I know now, or
if I was at a calmer, just emotional place, I
could have been better. But there was a lot of
wheat from yea, And I know that's probably me hearing
(20:58):
it through my What do we used to say through
my little red wagon? Remember that?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah? Or you're you're funneling it through Yeah, it's your
little red wagon.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Wait, explain the little red wagon for a second.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, I mean the way I understand little red wagon
is that's your deal and your issue and your problem,
and you figure it out. Don't don't bring me into it,
don't put me on it, don't project me.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I had I had a therapist once. Not you tell
me that we all carry around, we all pull around
our little red wagon behind us, and it's full of
all of our shit. It's it's our.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, it's our history. I guess I mean that probably
that therapist meant it. I use a little bit differently,
but that therapists probably meant like, that's your red wagon,
it's in your history, you know. And there's this great
saying if it's hysterical, it's historical. So you know, if
you're if your emotions are way up, if you're being
super reactive, you want to check yourself and be like,
(21:56):
am I am I? Is this historical? Is this really about? It?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Was?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It was hysterical, so I'm pretty sure it was historical.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Back in the day, I wasn't hysterical.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Recent No, No, I felt very calm, very centered, and
we talked about things that we've never discussed until now.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
That's exactly what I was just going to say. It's
you've never discussed those things. You've never really owned those
things with him, which I think was a beautiful thing
for you to do and a gift to give to him.
But I will say I want to say a couple
of things that I got that I heard from Peter,
that I heard that he has grown up too, the
way he understood both of your family dynamics. Write what
(22:37):
was modeled for you, right, how Bruno was with talking
about his dad working all the time, and how he
took that as a model and a q with your
kids to speak well of you and highly of you
even during the hard times and to kind of protect
(22:59):
them from that. And I thought, you know what he does.
He is thinking in sort of family lessons and multi
generational transmission. You know, he's kind of thinking in those
ways he's thought about this.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, because you have to be able
to step outside of yourself enough to see that picture
of why I am the way I am and why
he is the way he is, and then why we
were the way we were.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, and I love the story you told about being
at their house and queens, and like you know, he
was saying, I just one thing I would disagree with
him about is he kept saying, well, I just chose
to be strong. And I kept thinking, every time I
heard him say that, I wanted to say, strong is
not an asset. Being emotional is actually a very strong thing.
And when you talked about going to the back room
(23:49):
and Bruna followed you in and said, don't cry, don't cry,
and he said, oh, no, I need to cry, and
I was so proud of you because I thought that
is an evolved Jenny. That is a very emotionally intelligent Jenny.
Because vulnerability is strength.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, And some people just can't handle emotions. Yeah, Like
when they see someone having emotions, they shut down or
they fly, flee whatever that they freeze, they fight, fight, flight, freeze. Yeah.
And so I ran into that on a couple of
(24:25):
occasions with his beautiful our beautiful family, my extended family
whom I grew to love so much. And I think
that that was you know, I'm sure so many women
or men that's something when you get a divorce and
you split up families that have been together and grown
together for a long time. It's so hard to let
(24:46):
go of you're in laws or you're you know, my
my sisters that I had, And for a while I
really did have to just let them go and cut
them off and know that that wasn't an option for
me anymore to have any feelings around. But later, as
time passed, now we're all able to see each other
(25:08):
and go to, you know, have dinners together. And I
love being able to be back with my in laws again,
even though they're not my in laws, they're just acquaintances
friends now.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
But it's a healing story what happened between you, because
when you divorce, you don't just lose a spouse, right,
you lose an extended family and the loss reverberates. So
I love hearing you say that that you know, yes,
time heals, and you both have come to a place
(25:47):
where not only have you restitched together some of those relationships,
you've also added people to the extended and blended family.
And I really heard that Peter too, which I loved
hearing him say, you know, he sees and knows that
you're happy now. And that you know, Dave is wonderful,
and that the girls have integrated both families into a
(26:11):
large extended family. I mean, it's a healing story. This
whole thing as hard as I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I don't want to give anybody the misconception that
it was easy or it was quick or without a
lot of pain, but we somehow got there. And I'm
getting emotional again, like you know, like that that was
a really hard time. And it wasn't just hard for me.
(26:38):
It was really hard for the girls, and it was
really hard for Peter.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And for me for you seeing you in so much pain.
It was so so painful, and I think it was
one of the hardest breakups I've ever gone through.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And I think today I was able to a little
bit see because I, you know, in my story, as
Peter mentioned, I didn't feel that he was that broken
up by it, Like I didn't. I knew he was
bummed about losing our family, but I never and I
don't know that I still feel that he was torn
(27:13):
up about losing me. I feel like it was more
the family. But I thought I saw at least him
acknowledging the pain that he did go through and that
he had to work through. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I know he was in a lot of pain because
he called me a lot during that time. And I
didn't always share it with you because you know, he
asked me not to, but he needed to kind of
talk through stuff. But he was deeply broken up.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
How long ago was this even like we divorced in
twenty twelve, needs yeah, a long time ago. Yeah, And
I can still get like upset.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
But it's in your body. It was a trauma, right
for everybody involved. And if you really go back there
and you just really went back there with him, right,
and you're and you're kicking it up, but that's good. See.
And this is the other growth that I see in you,
is that you would sort of want to cancel it
out and not deal with what just happened. And you're
feeling it and it's okay, right again, you're healing.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
This is more he I don't really want to feel it?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Can I just letting yourself?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
And then also we can like we don't have to
keep going deep either. But I'm proud of you for
feeling the depth of it and the vulnerability of it
and the loss of it, and also the beauty again
of where you are today as a blended extended family. Yeah,
(28:46):
I wondered. Also, uh, you know, towards the end he
he said, you know, I think you asked him? What
did what did you? What positive things have come out
of our cope?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I asked him, I was being cheeky and I asked him,
what was your favorite part about being a co parent
with me?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Of course, I was like so excited to hear his answer.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
But do you remember what he said? Well?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
He first, he kind of chuckled because he knows me
and he knows that I was trying to get a
compliment out of him. But he did what did I do?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Tell me more? He did say that he respects and
values the fact that I instilled a great strength in
our girls, and that that made me.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Feel I could take that in.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But at the same time, I was also thinking that
right there is the strength is the way the reason
we couldn't stay together like you. And I'm not saying
like his current partner is not strong. We're just different strong, right,
but my kind of strong didn't gell you know after
a while, and that's maybe.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well and he said why, he said, I didn't have
a backbone. I didn't have an identity. I didn't have
a barely had a personality. I was he was twenty one.
I fell with it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I totally see that, Like when you you just become
something all of a sudden that you didn't see coming
and it takes over your life, which our children absolutely
did and our family and everything changed. But at the
same time, I was like, why couldn't you have told
me that? Like, why couldn't you have communicated that to
(30:28):
me during that time? And and perhaps we could have
grown forward together and found our voices individually. But I
ultimately think that's what did happen, is that we did
start to become more of our of our own, more
assured in who we were, and it just wasn't matching up.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, And who knows if you could have heard it, Yeah,
who knows if he could have said to you, like,
I don't feel like I know myself in this relationship.
That might have felt threatening to you at that time
in a way that it wouldn't at this age.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It definitely would. That is a little triggering. Yeah, I
don't I can't find myself in this relationship.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You would have taken it as if somehow you had
done that to him is.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
My absolutely because he explained it like he stepped into
my big giant life, moved into my house, you know,
and all those all those cards were sort of stacked
against us in those traditional aspects. Yeah, I mean he
is a traditional guy.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Well in some ways, he's incredibly traditional Italian Catholic family.
Everybody eats dinner together every night. One thing I kind
of wish I had heard from him, and I think
it's in line with what we're talking about right now,
is that you know, he kept he said a couple
times it felt like an arranged marriage or you know,
he didn't have I couldn't find his voice in the marriage.
(31:52):
He was kind of on the edge of talking about
it as but he wasn't owning it. He wasn't saying
I understand that was my respetility. I understand that it
was my job to find myself that it wasn't because
he kept saying, well, you had your life and you
had your job, and you knew who you were, and
he did when he talked about being codependent, he was
(32:14):
getting there, but he could never quite say I understand
now that it was my responsibility to ask for that
to work towards that dig deep to you know, try
to find myself inside.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I just don't think at that young age, for both
of us, we had the capacity or the knowledge or
the tools to do any of that, and we were
so busy raising those kids that there wasn't a lot
of opportunity for that kind of gross that really needed
to happen.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, and I think you kind of nailed it right
there is that part of this whole show that you're
doing around I Choose Me is tuning in slowing down,
even if you're twenty one, even if you're twenty five,
even if you have a big career, even if you
have three kids, right, because that's exactly what we're talking about,
is maybe you could have you know, or maybe you
(33:11):
can impart that to people that are listening that it's
not too late. In fact, you can start early choosing
yourself so you know who you are, you know what
you're bringing to a relationship, you can see what you
want for dinner, what kind of furniture you want in
the house. Just building on what Peter said in the podcast,
it's never too early to start, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, Well, you just imparted that so thank you. I
hope people heard that, and I do definitely try to, like,
you know, tell the girls that now. I think, Wow,
they're so far ahead of the game because they have
these messages and they have, you know, someone who's really
interested in helping them evolve earlier than I did, because
(33:57):
I know for me, it took me a long time
to get there, and there was so much pain in
those years, those early years of me not knowing that
I could choose myself, and then also not knowing that
just because I'm choosing myself, it doesn't mean I'm not
choosing the marriage or the partnership or the whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
In fact, you are actually, by choosing yourself, choosing the
marriage and the partnership.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Right hopefully usually, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Entirely evidenced in the conversation you just had with Peter,
because he's saying I didn't choose myself. I lost my
way in this marriage and I ended up having to
leave to find myself. So what we're saying is that, yeah,
if you choose yourself, you find yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I always knew that, you know, I always knew that
that he didn't have enough of a sense of who
he was independent of me or independent of the girls,
and I knew he was trying to figure that out,
and I just I don't think I was gracious enough
or you know, maybe patient enough or encouraging enough to
(35:04):
let him do what he really need to do in
his early twenties, mid twenties.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, okay, So this brings me to a question. Makes
me think about Dave, and it makes me think about
what you may have learned out of that conversation in
terms of the partner that you are today with the
husband that you have today. Is there anything any takeaways
for you or do you feel like you're enacting the
(35:32):
things you wish you had done with Peter.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well, I think that it just I'm not throwing any
shade whatsoever, but I think that in my current relationship,
I'm able to express my own needs and wants and
dislikes and likes without my partner being threatened by it
or angered by it or disappointed, you know all that,
(35:56):
you know, any kind of negative reaction. I think that
it's just a different dynamic because, yeah, I have grown
and I have learned things, and I have changed some things,
but I'm still me. I'm still very straightforward, I'm still
very direct, I'm still there's still times when I absolutely
could say things a little bit kinder or nicer or
(36:18):
more patient. I mean, we all lose our sometimes, we all,
you know, go go back to those places, those ruts
of the way we react. But I I also now
treat myself a little bit more graciously, Like I allow
(36:39):
myself to make mistakes sometimes, and Dave allows me to
make some mistakes sometimes and we kind of talk about
it and work through it, and you know, hopefully that
continues to change the trajectory of things. But I feel
like it's just a different dynamic, and it's it's so
two different people, you know, Dave and Peter are such
(36:59):
different people.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Different ages. Yeah, right, Dave's you know, in his forties now. Also,
I would say that you have awareness now that you
didn't used to have, So you catch yourself right, and
you're pretty quick to you know. It's kind of like
the five second rule with food. You have your five
second rule of like if you might if something comes
up and out kind of quick, you'll be like, hey,
(37:21):
I just did that thing right. You're you're much more
aware and more transparent, and that creates a lot more
space in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, like when you make a mess, When I make
a mess, it's important to me to go back and
clean it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So this kind of felt like cleaning up a mess
a little bit in a certain way.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like a closure is not
the right word, But do you feel a little more
complete or a little bit more integrated with this story? Now?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I do. I had known that we were getting to
the point where we could respect one another's differences, and
it was feeling better and more cohesive. But it was
nice to verbalize it, you know, and and hear him
be in the same position you said before that you
(38:17):
had there was something that you had wished you had
heard him say. Was there something that you had wished
you had heard me say?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know, I always like to like stop pointing the
finger and start yeah love it.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question. And I
was so proud of you, Jen, I was so proud
of you.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You're biased though, you just love me too much?
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I mean no, but look, I am biased that you'll
love you too much out but I do believe me
when you want to hear the truth, and I don't
know no, In fact, I stopped listening to it, and
I thought, that is a grown up, Jenny. I felt
really proud of you and really happy for you. And
really I heard the work. I heard the work you've done.
(39:06):
I heard the growth, I heard the evolution. I honestly
can't I can't think of anything in the moment right
now that I wish i'd heard.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I left feeling like I wish I had said more,
because there was a there was a cadence and and
a rhythm in our relationship together where he would do
all the talking and I would just resort to just
listening and agreeing and you know, or being in my
mind disagreeing and getting all irritated by that, but never
(39:35):
really communicating it. And there were a couple of points
where I said, you know, I kind of disagree with
you on that, or I think we're talking about two
different things. And I feel like right afterwards there was
something ignited in me. It was like an old feeling
that came back of frustration and irritation that I wasn't
(39:55):
getting to, you know, say what I needed to say,
have my opinion. But again I had to let that
go and not not really focus on that.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know, but you could also you don't have to
just like let it go and push it down or
push it away. You can ask yourself, right, you can.
This is this kind of self parenting thing that we
talk about. You can ask yourself, Okay, what was it
that I wish I had said? And I'm gonna say
it to myself and honor it, right, you don't have
to say it to him.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And also just it's not about pushing it down, but
it's just about acknowledging it and just reminding myself that's
not really that important.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Right, So to acknowledging Okay, that's frustration, that's an old feeling,
it's not really current. And is there anything else I
need to do about it? Nope, I'm okay. I've just
acknowledged it and it's and it kind of dissipated.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I really enjoyed our therapy session. Thank you
so much. Do you have any parting words for me?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
You know, it's so funny. I'm checking in with myself
right now, like, am I having any feelings about how
well you're doing? And how I You don't need me
as much as you as you used to, right, Like
you know you have all the answers within you, and
you've been listening. And I don't mean that need me
(41:17):
as a friend. I know where we'll always be friends.
But you are answering your own questions right, and you
are listening to what's coming up, and you're not saying
to me, what should I do in this moment? Or
I don't know how I feel?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I still text you and say what should I do?
How do I handle this? But you're like a backup
to my instinct because now I'm able to listen to
my gut and my instinct a lot more than I
ever was before.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, and you'll always have that for me. So instead
of me giving parting words or parting advice, what do
you think as things might bubble up, as your daughters
might have questions about the conversation, or Dave might any
feelings at all, what do you think you might do
That sort of is under the guise of like an
(42:07):
I choose me moment or just processing those feelings or conversations.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I mean, what comes to my mind immediately is that
I'm just going to choose to listen to them and
honor their perspective and respect it. You know, I can't
change it, like anybody that has a reaction to our conversation.
I can't change it or mold it into what I
want it to be. You just need to let people
(42:36):
have their feelings.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
There's an inner piece and an inner confidence to that answer,
and I would apply it to your feelings too, right,
not just your girls and your husband, but if feelings
come up for you, just listen.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
It's just a feeling. Yeah, And I have another feeling,
and it's that I really like your hair color right now,
So keep it that way.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Okay, that's all you've got it. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I love you, Bye bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
In closing, I want to just thank Adele one more
time for helping me move through that, and thank you
Peter too for coming on and having this conversation with me.
I just want to say I'm really proud of both
of us for having this sit down. I heard some
things that I think I really needed to hear. It
(43:37):
felt stirring and settling at the same time, and I
really do love that Peter was so vulnerable and honest.
Please know that having that conversation and having it publicly
was a choice we both made to maybe help other
people going through turbulent times of their own. And I
(43:59):
really do hope that by Peter and I opening up
about the highs and the lows we've experienced in our
go parenting journey, it will help some of you. I
want to ask you a question. Are you holding on
to old feelings, past angers, resentments, sadness? Maybe just think
(44:20):
about that this week and if you find something there,
I want to encourage you to dig deep and be
brave and choose to release that feeling. That's all you
have to do. Simply choose to let it go. I know,
I know I just said simply, and you may be thinking, uh, yeah, Jenny,
(44:45):
it's not that simple. I get it. But I promise you,
no matter what your circumstances are, no matter how high
the mountain in front of you looks, you can do this.
You can choose to release old feelings, old habits that
are holding you back, and you can choose to move forward.
(45:09):
You have the power. Thank you for choosing to listen
to I choose me. You can find all the links
to our socials in the show notes, and I want
you to know I love you. I'll be here next week.
I hope you choose to be here.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Too
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. Today,
I want to share part two of my conversation with
my ex husband and co parenting partner, Peter Factionelli. If
(00:25):
you haven't listened to part one, you're going to want
to go back and do that, so you're all caught up.
The reason I wanted to continue this conversation about divorce
and co parenting is because it's an important conversation to have,
not only for me and Peter, but maybe for you
as well. I'm also going to want to break this
(00:46):
conversation down and kind of talk about how it affected
me and made me feel. So I am going to
be talking to Adele a little later on in this episode,
but let's do this. Let's dive back into my chat
with Peter.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I also feel like we were very codependent on each
other because we were so young that it was like
that we were all that we knew, you know what
I mean, So like I was co dependent on you
in an emotional way, you were co dependent on me
in an emotional ways, So you know it was I
think that that was not not the best.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Uh you know, what do you mean dependent? Like what
does that mean? Uh? Like that term for me is
kind of fifty to fifty codependent.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It was like like I said, I I what do
you want for dinner? I don't know, I didn't know
what what what? What choices to have? It was like, well,
what do you want for dinner? You know what I mean?
What do you where do you want to live? What
do I think? It was? It was maybe you didn't
see it as much because I was kind of living
your in your life, you know what I mean, Like
(01:59):
you have life that was established already, and I kind
of came into it and I kind of moved into
this established life. So for you, you're like, this is great.
I've got a husband and I've got dogs, and I've
got a house and this house now we have together
and I remember, you know, but it was like, you know,
I didn't really feel like I had many decisions within
(02:24):
that space. It was like how do I serve this
my wife.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And make her happy?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You know, because of a happy wife, happy life, right,
So You're like, how do.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I make her?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
She wants to go up to your ranch this weekend. Okay,
I'll go. Pardon me. Didn't really want to go, but
I was like, I'll just go and I'll drive and
i'll drive back and I'll you know, do this over here,
and I'll do this over there, and I'll plan the vacations.
Then I'll do this. I was like, you know, I
didn't have a lot of choices. It was just part
(03:00):
that I was felt like, you know, I was good
at playing, but I just didn't. I hadn't formed me yet,
you know what I mean. So you had already formed you,
so like there was a codependency there in the sense
of like I don't know, I don't know what choices,
what I liked, what I don't like, I don't know
(03:21):
what I like, you know, Like I said, it was
really interesting when we broke up because it was like,
I don't know what my my likes and dislikes are,
Like I have to kind of rediscover who I am.
And you probably had to do that too.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
There's a lot of you that was like, you know,
now you're an independent person, and then you have these
two independent figures that are like, Okay, I'm kind of
figuring out what I like and I'm like, I'm figuring
out what I like. And then well, now we got
to come together to co parent, you know, and so
some of that independence is like, well, no, I want
to hold on to this, you know, this is how
I want to do parent, and this is You're like,
(03:54):
this is how I.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Want to parent, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And so then the problems are I was there because
it was like we were so used to like just
kind of servicing each other within this relationship. But we
were kids, you know, So yeah, I mean it's just, uh,
it was. It was. There were good times and there
were bad times, but we got we got through these.
(04:17):
Even the bad times we got through in the sense
of like our kids always came out of it. And
so even you know, like I said before, it's not
fun being uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is kind of where you grow.
And and so there's a lot of times of uncomfortability
for both of us too, and we were growing. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Let's talk about briefly, like step parents bringing in another
person to the mix. We did that, not initially. Neither
of us got married right away, but we both had
a few relationships left and right, and the girls would
(05:00):
get close, i know, with with from my perspective, your
relationship after we were demorse, the girls got close with
your then girlfriend, and that was very very, very very
difficult for me. I wondered how you felt when another
(05:21):
guy came in. I don't think I ever was really
serious with anybody until Dave.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean it was a catch showing too, because like
I had a longer term person there that was getting
close to them, and so that was hard to watch
them go through that have another person leave. You know
that I couldn't, you know, I had nothing that I
could that I could do to help that or not
have that happen. It was just it's what happened. And
(05:47):
I felt bad having them be an effect of that
because I was with that person for a few years.
And then on your side, you were you were having
people come into their lives and then kind of you know,
leaving in short spurts, you know what I mean. I know,
like they would go on vacation with the guy and
then kind of get to know him, and then you
would move on to somebody else, and it was you
(06:07):
kind of you know dating, uh, and you're like, I
think this person is safe enough to introduce them and
then and then they would so they had these shorter
amounts of like this guy that they would get to know.
And for me, it was like I just kind of
had to trust you, you know, I had to go, Okay,
well she trusts this person, then I have to trust them,
you know what I mean. I was never I never
(06:28):
felt jealous of another person coming in because I always
felt that the more love that the kids had, the
the better. Yeah. I mean, so you know, I was
never enough competition to go, well, I'm the dad here.
I think that it was harder on you for that
being the mom, you know, watching another person come in.
(06:49):
But for me, I was like, you know, when Dave
came in, I was like, he's a wonderful guy, and
like I'm and the kids really enjoyed being with him,
and and so it made me smile that he had
they had another person that loved them so much, you know.
And I think that they're incredibly lucky to have. You know,
they have a stepmom now in my current partner, Lily,
(07:10):
and and they have Dave, and like they have these
That's why, like I don't look at it like it's
a burden that they have to carry for the rest
of their lives of this divorce. I really look at it, like, Wow,
there's they're incredibly fortunate to have had now these stepparents
that that they've gotten to know, that that have added
(07:32):
to their personalities, that have that they've grown through them
as well, you know. And and then I also think
that they're going to be lucky that they can look
to your relationship with Dave and and and you know,
get inspired by the love there. And they can look
at the relationship between me and my partner and get
inspired by that relationship, you know. And I know you've had,
(07:54):
you know, your things with Dave, and they've watched you
come out the other side and grow through that. And
and so I maybe maybe that's why there's they're so
great because we kind of had a lot of mistakes
happen we were growing up, we were growing up, and
they were kind of learning from our mistakes in some ways.
And uh, but I but I don't think that there's
any any perfect parenting textbook model. I mean even now,
(08:19):
like I'm a new dad, you know, I have a
twenty month old, and like people are like, oh, well,
you have three kids, you must be a pro at it.
Now I'm like no. I it's like every kid is
so different and they they require different things, and then
the game keeps changing because like, you know, things that
I did with my kids are like, oh, don't do
(08:41):
that now.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I remember when when when Jack was younger and I
went to go take a nap with him, I used
to take naps with like Luca Bella on my chest,
like outside on the swing like like this.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You know you can't do that now.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
No, They're like, you know, don't don't take a nap
with your child and your chest. They could suffocate them.
Like really I used to do that with look them.
It's like, uh, well that's just you know, no seriously,
Like there's studies now that a lot of parents I
guess would fall asleep and their kid would get I
don't know, suffocate, So like you can't, Yeah, you can't
do that now. It's like all new rules. There was.
(09:17):
What's the other one is? Oh uh, you know when
we were parenting, you know, our kids, we were like
every time they did something wonderful, You're like, oh, I'm
so proud of you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And I was like as a parent, having parents that
you know, on the other spectrum like kind of left
me to do my thing, and if I got a
ninety nine, my mom would be like, oh, well that's great,
get a hundred next time, which maybe more of a
perfectionist if anything. But like now they're like, don't say
I'm so proud of you to your kid.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I'm like, real, wait why.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Because if you say I'm so proud of you for
what they do, then they're looking outside sources for for like, oh,
I'm getting these grades for you, so I feel good
from the outside, right. So there, So there's all these
articles now that like you're supposed to say to your kid, well,
how do you feel about that? Are you proud of yourself? Yeah,
(10:07):
well that's so wonderful. I'm so happy that you're proud
of the work that you did. And so like, look
at that.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I just learned something.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah you look at that, and I'm like, well, I
thought I knew these answers, and you know, in five
ten years that might be like, no, you're supposed to
say you're proud of them. You're like, wait to say it,
But I get that. I get that, Like, Okay, if
you keep telling them you're proud of them, then they're
going to always do something to please the parent, and
then they become people pleasers, right, and yeah, it makes sense.
(10:34):
So then you're just like, okay, so I'll make sure
that they know that they're doing that work, that artwork
is something that they should be proud of. Because if
you self generate that you're proud of your work, then
you don't need any outside forces to tell you it's good.
And that's kind of an interesting model.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So, I mean, can you imagine if we hadn't learned
if we knew the things now that we if we
knew that then as parents, Yeah, I wonder how different things.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't know. I don't know, but again, I feel
like we did something right.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I asked you the question about, like, you know, what
do you think co parenting is? And I just kind
of want to answer it for myself that it's about
respect for the partner, the baby partner ultimately in that
communication that comes from that place of respect, which was
something we were definitely challenged on. I think that I
was very in tune with keeping their childhoods alive even
(11:36):
though their lives had changed so much. That's very challenging,
especially when they're going back and forth between two different homes.
You talked about the girls having to pack a bag.
That for me was one of the most heart wrenching
parts of it was because I would go try to
help them pack or you know, say, would you like
(11:57):
me to help you in the Fiona specifically would be like, no,
to do it myself, and it would rip my heart
out because I felt responsible for her having to pack
a bag every week like a like be so unsettled,
you know. I felt like it's my fault, our fault
that they have to do this, and it's unfortunate, you know.
(12:17):
I feel like, Oh, my kid's living out of a suitcase.
And just when she would go to your house and
get settled in and comfortable and that you would get
the pace going and you guys would start getting on
the same page and everybody would be happy. Then, like
you said, it would be time for them to come
to my house, and then there was that whole different
readjustment period. I think so that all plays into the
(12:38):
respect not just for you, but for them and also
for me. I I think it's probably was really hard
for them to understand why because they never saw us fight.
They never they never understood why we broke up, and
I also still don't know that they do, but I
feel like they get it in a different way now.
(12:59):
But for me, it was remind remembering to remind them
that they came from a place of love, like they
were born into love, and you know, because they can
take on the feelings of why it didn't work or
why my family's not together anymore. So those are some
(13:21):
of the most important parts of co parenting for me.
I would ask you, though, what is it that you
love the most about being a co parent with me?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean, I think, like I said, even when we
didn't agree on things, and even sometimes when, like you know,
we text back and forth and we knew how to
press each other's buttons too. Oh right now, yeah, I
want to know you already did with the plant attacking me.
I know you did that on purpose. But you know,
(13:56):
I really see sometimes a lot of you and our
kids and it makes me smile, It really does. Like
and the things that they do and the way they
handle themselves. I think you're an incredibly strong woman. I
think the kids see you as a strong woman. I
think that you know there's a there's an inner strength
that they carry because of that, and so you know,
(14:20):
I think there's a lot of wonderful things that you
modeled for them and and and you know, teaching them.
And I'm appreciative of that, you know. Uh, And I'm
very appreciative that I had a co parent that that
cared so much. I think that both of us cared
sometimes so much that we were like, no, this is
the way we have to do it. This is the
(14:41):
way we have to do it. And it was hard
to find the you know, the right way or the
way that you know, the middle ground on that and frustrating,
I'm sure for both for you and me, it was
just like wow, how because because even when we saw
each other's points, it was like okay, but it becomes
so important to go to each other that if if
(15:05):
it's if they're not parented this way, then something. And
that's where I say that they're resilient because like you know,
they're whatever we decide the ultimate goal, Uh, they're gonna
be okay. And they were and they they're so wonderful.
So like, you know, I'm appreciative that I have Mother's
Day was recently and I remember thinking you on Mother's
(15:27):
Day and thinking, well, you know, she she was so
wonderfully there and available all the time. Like, uh, for me,
I was on the other opposite of special. So I
was always there, but I let them kind of be
you know, uh, and you were always there, but you
were like making sure that they you know, we're like
(15:48):
very protective and it's like in a way that was
very loving. So yeah, I think that the balance of that,
you know, like like when I said I had it
on one extreme, you had it in the other extreme.
In some weird way, having it on both, you know,
one weekend be this and one weekend be that, they
kind of grew to this middle middle ground of that.
(16:11):
You know, maybe maybe that's what worked. Maybe we didn't
know what we're doing in that sense and it kind
of came together. But the proof is in the pudding,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The proof is, yes, I got that one.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I grew up with Italian immigrants for parents, so like
sometimes I get words backwards.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You mix things up, phrasing raising, which always makes you laugh. Yeah,
I think we did. Okay, thank you for talking it out.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Thanks for I feel like this was wonderful. Actually, I
coming into it, I was like, I think this is
gonna be really wonderfully healing for us, because we never
really sat down and talked about our styles of parent
thing or you know, where we were coming from. It
was always like I think should do this, I think
we do that, and I don't agree, and I do agree.
And then there were times we were like, oh, we
(17:07):
got to sit down, you know, come together on this
because this is a big one. And we did, you
know a lot of times. Yeah, when we were always
we had each other's backs. Yeah, you know, there there
was a mostly like smaller things we'd argue about, but
the bigger things were like, no, this is this is
a big one. But that said, like I know we're
(17:29):
coming out at the other end of it, but like
I'm excited to continue co parenting we have, you know,
now we get to co parent adult we're done. Yeah,
well I don't think you're ever done, as apparently you're
We're always going to be each other's lives. It grows
into adult parenting, you know, and a lot of times now,
you know, I can go to the kids and be
(17:50):
like what are you feeling? You know, but we do
still check in with each other, and I think if
we took anything out of this, we should communicate more,
you know, by phone on any of the issues.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Oh Okay,
there is a lot too unpack with this conversation, so
I'm going to need to bring in my friend and
our therapist, Adele to talk through some of this with me. Hi, Hi,
(18:24):
can you believe what just happened?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I can, and I can't. It was kind of epic
that you guys did that. I feel incredibly proud of
both of you and so happy that you did it.
But I'm still kind of reeling, So you must be
just like, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You know, after we completed the interview or the conversation
or whatever you want to call it, I felt unsettled, honestly,
Like revisiting those things and even just sitting with him
and talking one on one with him was different because
we don't really do anything that's not just about the girls. Logistically.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, I wondered about that, Like sitting on a couch
with him in a room, just the two of you,
eye contact and really processing what you went through.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, it was weird. I felt a little spinny the
whole rest of the day, spinny and exhaust It kind
of took it out of me.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, Yeah, I noticed at one point you got a
little emotional, and do you remember when it was? It
was that moment that you took responsibility, which I have
to say was kind of my favorite thing about the
whole interview is both of you were in a place
where you could see your part more clearly. And I
(19:57):
heard you start to talk about the times when you
were sharing custody and that you understand that you had
operated from a selfish place and you wish you hadn't,
And I heard a catch in your throat.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I think, I know that it's natural, you know, instinctual
survival to operate from a place of selfishness in that
situation that we were, that I was in that, you know,
And I think they're going to always be emotions around
that that time of my life, you know, because it was, Yeah,
(20:36):
it was defining. And I think that I don't know
that I've ever really told him like, yeah, I could
have done things better, I could have done things differently
if I had known than what I know now, or
if I was at a calmer, just emotional place, I
could have been better. But there was a lot of
wheat from yea, And I know that's probably me hearing
(20:58):
it through my What do we used to say through
my little red wagon? Remember that?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah? Or you're you're funneling it through Yeah, it's your
little red wagon.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Wait, explain the little red wagon for a second.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, I mean the way I understand little red wagon
is that's your deal and your issue and your problem,
and you figure it out. Don't don't bring me into it,
don't put me on it, don't project me.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I had I had a therapist once. Not you tell
me that we all carry around, we all pull around
our little red wagon behind us, and it's full of
all of our shit. It's it's our.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, it's our history. I guess I mean that probably
that therapist meant it. I use a little bit differently,
but that therapists probably meant like, that's your red wagon,
it's in your history, you know. And there's this great
saying if it's hysterical, it's historical. So you know, if
you're if your emotions are way up, if you're being
super reactive, you want to check yourself and be like,
(21:56):
am I am I? Is this historical? Is this really about? It?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Was?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It was hysterical, so I'm pretty sure it was historical.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Back in the day, I wasn't hysterical.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Recent No, No, I felt very calm, very centered, and
we talked about things that we've never discussed until now.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
That's exactly what I was just going to say. It's
you've never discussed those things. You've never really owned those
things with him, which I think was a beautiful thing
for you to do and a gift to give to him.
But I will say I want to say a couple
of things that I got that I heard from Peter,
that I heard that he has grown up too, the
way he understood both of your family dynamics. Write what
(22:37):
was modeled for you, right, how Bruno was with talking
about his dad working all the time, and how he
took that as a model and a q with your
kids to speak well of you and highly of you
even during the hard times and to kind of protect
(22:59):
them from that. And I thought, you know what he does.
He is thinking in sort of family lessons and multi
generational transmission. You know, he's kind of thinking in those
ways he's thought about this.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, because you have to be able
to step outside of yourself enough to see that picture
of why I am the way I am and why
he is the way he is, and then why we
were the way we were.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, and I love the story you told about being
at their house and queens, and like you know, he
was saying, I just one thing I would disagree with
him about is he kept saying, well, I just chose
to be strong. And I kept thinking, every time I
heard him say that, I wanted to say, strong is
not an asset. Being emotional is actually a very strong thing.
And when you talked about going to the back room
(23:49):
and Bruna followed you in and said, don't cry, don't cry,
and he said, oh, no, I need to cry, and
I was so proud of you because I thought that
is an evolved Jenny. That is a very emotionally intelligent Jenny.
Because vulnerability is strength.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, And some people just can't handle emotions. Yeah, Like
when they see someone having emotions, they shut down or
they fly, flee whatever that they freeze, they fight, fight, flight, freeze. Yeah.
And so I ran into that on a couple of
(24:25):
occasions with his beautiful our beautiful family, my extended family
whom I grew to love so much. And I think
that that was you know, I'm sure so many women
or men that's something when you get a divorce and
you split up families that have been together and grown
together for a long time. It's so hard to let
(24:46):
go of you're in laws or you're you know, my
my sisters that I had, And for a while I
really did have to just let them go and cut
them off and know that that wasn't an option for
me anymore to have any feelings around. But later, as
time passed, now we're all able to see each other
(25:08):
and go to, you know, have dinners together. And I
love being able to be back with my in laws again,
even though they're not my in laws, they're just acquaintances
friends now.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
But it's a healing story what happened between you, because
when you divorce, you don't just lose a spouse, right,
you lose an extended family and the loss reverberates. So
I love hearing you say that that you know, yes,
time heals, and you both have come to a place
(25:47):
where not only have you restitched together some of those relationships,
you've also added people to the extended and blended family.
And I really heard that Peter too, which I loved
hearing him say, you know, he sees and knows that
you're happy now. And that you know, Dave is wonderful,
and that the girls have integrated both families into a
(26:11):
large extended family. I mean, it's a healing story. This
whole thing as hard as I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I don't want to give anybody the misconception that
it was easy or it was quick or without a
lot of pain, but we somehow got there. And I'm
getting emotional again, like you know, like that that was
a really hard time. And it wasn't just hard for me.
(26:38):
It was really hard for the girls, and it was
really hard for Peter.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And for me for you seeing you in so much pain.
It was so so painful, and I think it was
one of the hardest breakups I've ever gone through.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And I think today I was able to a little
bit see because I, you know, in my story, as
Peter mentioned, I didn't feel that he was that broken
up by it, Like I didn't. I knew he was
bummed about losing our family, but I never and I
don't know that I still feel that he was torn
(27:13):
up about losing me. I feel like it was more
the family. But I thought I saw at least him
acknowledging the pain that he did go through and that
he had to work through. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I know he was in a lot of pain because
he called me a lot during that time. And I
didn't always share it with you because you know, he
asked me not to, but he needed to kind of
talk through stuff. But he was deeply broken up.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
How long ago was this even like we divorced in
twenty twelve, needs yeah, a long time ago. Yeah, And
I can still get like upset.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
But it's in your body. It was a trauma, right
for everybody involved. And if you really go back there
and you just really went back there with him, right,
and you're and you're kicking it up, but that's good. See.
And this is the other growth that I see in you,
is that you would sort of want to cancel it
out and not deal with what just happened. And you're
feeling it and it's okay, right again, you're healing.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
This is more he I don't really want to feel it?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Can I just letting yourself?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
And then also we can like we don't have to
keep going deep either. But I'm proud of you for
feeling the depth of it and the vulnerability of it
and the loss of it, and also the beauty again
of where you are today as a blended extended family. Yeah,
(28:46):
I wondered. Also, uh, you know, towards the end he
he said, you know, I think you asked him? What
did what did you? What positive things have come out
of our cope?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I asked him, I was being cheeky and I asked him,
what was your favorite part about being a co parent
with me?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Of course, I was like so excited to hear his answer.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
But do you remember what he said? Well?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
He first, he kind of chuckled because he knows me
and he knows that I was trying to get a
compliment out of him. But he did what did I do?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Tell me more? He did say that he respects and
values the fact that I instilled a great strength in
our girls, and that that made me.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Feel I could take that in.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But at the same time, I was also thinking that
right there is the strength is the way the reason
we couldn't stay together like you. And I'm not saying
like his current partner is not strong. We're just different strong, right,
but my kind of strong didn't gell you know after
a while, and that's maybe.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well and he said why, he said, I didn't have
a backbone. I didn't have an identity. I didn't have
a barely had a personality. I was he was twenty one.
I fell with it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I totally see that, Like when you you just become
something all of a sudden that you didn't see coming
and it takes over your life, which our children absolutely
did and our family and everything changed. But at the
same time, I was like, why couldn't you have told
me that? Like, why couldn't you have communicated that to
(30:28):
me during that time? And and perhaps we could have
grown forward together and found our voices individually. But I
ultimately think that's what did happen, is that we did
start to become more of our of our own, more
assured in who we were, and it just wasn't matching up.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, And who knows if you could have heard it, Yeah,
who knows if he could have said to you, like,
I don't feel like I know myself in this relationship.
That might have felt threatening to you at that time
in a way that it wouldn't at this age.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It definitely would. That is a little triggering. Yeah, I
don't I can't find myself in this relationship.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You would have taken it as if somehow you had
done that to him is.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
My absolutely because he explained it like he stepped into
my big giant life, moved into my house, you know,
and all those all those cards were sort of stacked
against us in those traditional aspects. Yeah, I mean he
is a traditional guy.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Well in some ways, he's incredibly traditional Italian Catholic family.
Everybody eats dinner together every night. One thing I kind
of wish I had heard from him, and I think
it's in line with what we're talking about right now,
is that you know, he kept he said a couple
times it felt like an arranged marriage or you know,
he didn't have I couldn't find his voice in the marriage.
(31:52):
He was kind of on the edge of talking about
it as but he wasn't owning it. He wasn't saying
I understand that was my respetility. I understand that it
was my job to find myself that it wasn't because
he kept saying, well, you had your life and you
had your job, and you knew who you were, and
he did when he talked about being codependent, he was
(32:14):
getting there, but he could never quite say I understand
now that it was my responsibility to ask for that
to work towards that dig deep to you know, try
to find myself inside.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I just don't think at that young age, for both
of us, we had the capacity or the knowledge or
the tools to do any of that, and we were
so busy raising those kids that there wasn't a lot
of opportunity for that kind of gross that really needed
to happen.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, and I think you kind of nailed it right
there is that part of this whole show that you're
doing around I Choose Me is tuning in slowing down,
even if you're twenty one, even if you're twenty five,
even if you have a big career, even if you
have three kids, right, because that's exactly what we're talking about,
is maybe you could have you know, or maybe you
(33:11):
can impart that to people that are listening that it's
not too late. In fact, you can start early choosing
yourself so you know who you are, you know what
you're bringing to a relationship, you can see what you
want for dinner, what kind of furniture you want in
the house. Just building on what Peter said in the podcast,
it's never too early to start, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, Well, you just imparted that so thank you. I
hope people heard that, and I do definitely try to, like,
you know, tell the girls that now. I think, Wow,
they're so far ahead of the game because they have
these messages and they have, you know, someone who's really
interested in helping them evolve earlier than I did, because
(33:57):
I know for me, it took me a long time
to get there, and there was so much pain in
those years, those early years of me not knowing that
I could choose myself, and then also not knowing that
just because I'm choosing myself, it doesn't mean I'm not
choosing the marriage or the partnership or the whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
In fact, you are actually, by choosing yourself, choosing the
marriage and the partnership.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Right hopefully usually, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Entirely evidenced in the conversation you just had with Peter,
because he's saying I didn't choose myself. I lost my
way in this marriage and I ended up having to
leave to find myself. So what we're saying is that, yeah,
if you choose yourself, you find yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I always knew that, you know, I always knew that
that he didn't have enough of a sense of who
he was independent of me or independent of the girls,
and I knew he was trying to figure that out,
and I just I don't think I was gracious enough
or you know, maybe patient enough or encouraging enough to
(35:04):
let him do what he really need to do in
his early twenties, mid twenties.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, okay, So this brings me to a question. Makes
me think about Dave, and it makes me think about
what you may have learned out of that conversation in
terms of the partner that you are today with the
husband that you have today. Is there anything any takeaways
for you or do you feel like you're enacting the
(35:32):
things you wish you had done with Peter.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well, I think that it just I'm not throwing any
shade whatsoever, but I think that in my current relationship,
I'm able to express my own needs and wants and
dislikes and likes without my partner being threatened by it
or angered by it or disappointed, you know all that,
(35:56):
you know, any kind of negative reaction. I think that
it's just a different dynamic because, yeah, I have grown
and I have learned things, and I have changed some things,
but I'm still me. I'm still very straightforward, I'm still
very direct, I'm still there's still times when I absolutely
could say things a little bit kinder or nicer or
(36:18):
more patient. I mean, we all lose our sometimes, we all,
you know, go go back to those places, those ruts
of the way we react. But I I also now
treat myself a little bit more graciously, Like I allow
(36:39):
myself to make mistakes sometimes, and Dave allows me to
make some mistakes sometimes and we kind of talk about
it and work through it, and you know, hopefully that
continues to change the trajectory of things. But I feel
like it's just a different dynamic, and it's it's so
two different people, you know, Dave and Peter are such
(36:59):
different people.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Different ages. Yeah, right, Dave's you know, in his forties now. Also,
I would say that you have awareness now that you
didn't used to have, So you catch yourself right, and
you're pretty quick to you know. It's kind of like
the five second rule with food. You have your five
second rule of like if you might if something comes
up and out kind of quick, you'll be like, hey,
(37:21):
I just did that thing right. You're you're much more
aware and more transparent, and that creates a lot more
space in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, like when you make a mess, When I make
a mess, it's important to me to go back and
clean it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So this kind of felt like cleaning up a mess
a little bit in a certain way.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like a closure is not
the right word, But do you feel a little more
complete or a little bit more integrated with this story? Now?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I do. I had known that we were getting to
the point where we could respect one another's differences, and
it was feeling better and more cohesive. But it was
nice to verbalize it, you know, and and hear him
be in the same position you said before that you
(38:17):
had there was something that you had wished you had
heard him say. Was there something that you had wished
you had heard me say?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know, I always like to like stop pointing the
finger and start yeah love it.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question. And I
was so proud of you, Jen, I was so proud
of you.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You're biased though, you just love me too much?
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I mean no, but look, I am biased that you'll
love you too much out but I do believe me
when you want to hear the truth, and I don't
know no, In fact, I stopped listening to it, and
I thought, that is a grown up, Jenny. I felt
really proud of you and really happy for you. And
really I heard the work. I heard the work you've done.
(39:06):
I heard the growth, I heard the evolution. I honestly
can't I can't think of anything in the moment right
now that I wish i'd heard.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I left feeling like I wish I had said more,
because there was a there was a cadence and and
a rhythm in our relationship together where he would do
all the talking and I would just resort to just
listening and agreeing and you know, or being in my
mind disagreeing and getting all irritated by that, but never
(39:35):
really communicating it. And there were a couple of points
where I said, you know, I kind of disagree with
you on that, or I think we're talking about two
different things. And I feel like right afterwards there was
something ignited in me. It was like an old feeling
that came back of frustration and irritation that I wasn't
(39:55):
getting to, you know, say what I needed to say,
have my opinion. But again I had to let that
go and not not really focus on that.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know, but you could also you don't have to
just like let it go and push it down or
push it away. You can ask yourself, right, you can.
This is this kind of self parenting thing that we
talk about. You can ask yourself, Okay, what was it
that I wish I had said? And I'm gonna say
it to myself and honor it, right, you don't have
to say it to him.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And also just it's not about pushing it down, but
it's just about acknowledging it and just reminding myself that's
not really that important.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Right, So to acknowledging Okay, that's frustration, that's an old feeling,
it's not really current. And is there anything else I
need to do about it? Nope, I'm okay. I've just
acknowledged it and it's and it kind of dissipated.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I really enjoyed our therapy session. Thank you
so much. Do you have any parting words for me?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
You know, it's so funny. I'm checking in with myself
right now, like, am I having any feelings about how
well you're doing? And how I You don't need me
as much as you as you used to, right, Like
you know you have all the answers within you, and
you've been listening. And I don't mean that need me
(41:17):
as a friend. I know where we'll always be friends.
But you are answering your own questions right, and you
are listening to what's coming up, and you're not saying
to me, what should I do in this moment? Or
I don't know how I feel?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I still text you and say what should I do?
How do I handle this? But you're like a backup
to my instinct because now I'm able to listen to
my gut and my instinct a lot more than I
ever was before.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, and you'll always have that for me. So instead
of me giving parting words or parting advice, what do
you think as things might bubble up, as your daughters
might have questions about the conversation, or Dave might any
feelings at all, what do you think you might do
That sort of is under the guise of like an
(42:07):
I choose me moment or just processing those feelings or conversations.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I mean, what comes to my mind immediately is that
I'm just going to choose to listen to them and
honor their perspective and respect it. You know, I can't
change it, like anybody that has a reaction to our conversation.
I can't change it or mold it into what I
want it to be. You just need to let people
(42:36):
have their feelings.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
There's an inner piece and an inner confidence to that answer,
and I would apply it to your feelings too, right,
not just your girls and your husband, but if feelings
come up for you, just listen.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
It's just a feeling. Yeah, And I have another feeling,
and it's that I really like your hair color right now,
So keep it that way.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Okay, that's all you've got it. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I love you, Bye bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
In closing, I want to just thank Adele one more
time for helping me move through that, and thank you
Peter too for coming on and having this conversation with me.
I just want to say I'm really proud of both
of us for having this sit down. I heard some
things that I think I really needed to hear. It
(43:37):
felt stirring and settling at the same time, and I
really do love that Peter was so vulnerable and honest.
Please know that having that conversation and having it publicly
was a choice we both made to maybe help other
people going through turbulent times of their own. And I
(43:59):
really do hope that by Peter and I opening up
about the highs and the lows we've experienced in our
go parenting journey, it will help some of you. I
want to ask you a question. Are you holding on
to old feelings, past angers, resentments, sadness? Maybe just think
(44:20):
about that this week and if you find something there,
I want to encourage you to dig deep and be
brave and choose to release that feeling. That's all you
have to do. Simply choose to let it go. I know,
I know I just said simply, and you may be thinking, uh, yeah, Jenny,
(44:45):
it's not that simple. I get it. But I promise you,
no matter what your circumstances are, no matter how high
the mountain in front of you looks, you can do this.
You can choose to release old feelings, old habits that
are holding you back, and you can choose to move forward.
(45:09):
You have the power. Thank you for choosing to listen
to I choose me. You can find all the links
to our socials in the show notes, and I want
you to know I love you. I'll be here next week.
I hope you choose to be here.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Too
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