May 14, 2025 • 49 mins
Jennie is joined by actress, talk show, and podcast host, Busy Philipps, for a bold, nothing off limits conversation!
From their thoughts and experiences with angels, to life-altering choices, to Busy opening up about her late diagnosis with ADHD and what that meant to her...the women are covering so much.
Plus, they're discussing the topic of friendship-soulmates, and the special bonds each woman shares with her cast of TV actors from their iconic shows.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. So
my guest today is brave and bold. She is unapologetically
who she is. Not to mention, she's spunky, which is
(00:25):
my favorite kind of lady. You know her from roles
in Freaks and Geeks Dawson's Creek, I Feel Pretty. I
happen to love her in Cougartown opposite Courtney Cox. Her
show Busy this Week on QVC Plus is so fun.
I know because I was just on it. She is
also the co host of her own podcast, Busy Phillips
(00:46):
is doing her best. Please welcome Busy Phillips to the podcast. Okay,
I am so happy to have you on the podcast.
This is really fun.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We've spent some time together now, I know, yes, because
I was just on your show.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah. It was a blast.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And I got to know so much about you, which
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We have so much in common, which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Much like it keeps happening and we talk more about it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I did more than I mean I knew.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I knew you were from Arizona because I remember being
a kid wanting to be an actor and knowing that
you were from Arizona, like you and David Spade. That
was that was like the two people on television from
where I'm from is yeah, ten then David's Paige.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And look, and then you ended up in Hollywood. Yeah,
out of Arizona.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
There must be something in the water. There's definitely something
in the water. I think it's the proximity.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm not even kidding, Like I feel like, I don't
know if you've I feel felt like Phoenix was like
a suburb of Los Angeles kind of in a weird way.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, you can get there close. Yes, there's no traffic
on that highway.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, there's not. Well now they're probably the desert. Well yeah, yeah,
you just do it, you just fly.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I loved it. Well, I love being there, and I
loved living in the desert. There's something so settling and
grounding about the desert for me.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I'm Casey who's my producer on the talk show says
that I'm like a heat seeking lizard because I will
like lay down on hot rocks. We're so good, I know,
but it's so funny. It's like, I don't know, I
just I missed the heat and I miss the warm.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you get back there? Do you go?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, I haven't been in a while.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You don't have family there or anything.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I have a brother half brother there, but I haven't
seen him in so long. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Kind of a great place to vacation. I'm not gonna lie.
And you were just there.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, you gotta go hiking there too. So lovely. Yeah, Okay,
you're just out there. You're challenging the norms. You are
sharing deeply personal stories and things that have happened to you,
and you're standing up for what's right. I'm curious, were
you always, even as a kid, someone who wasn't afraid
to use her voice or did that come to you
(02:51):
later in life because you're so outspoken. Yeah, that's one
of the things that I really admire about you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Thanks so much. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I mean, I think that speaking out about issues that
are important to me was always something that was valued
in my household and something that I saw my mom
doing and being very vocal about things that she was
passionate about, and and especially values like you know, the
things equality and and especially because you know, I grew
(03:21):
up in the like nineties, like gay marriage, like even
you know back then, like you know, my mom say
you know, and being very vocal about that kind of stuff.
I don't know, And so then I think it was
just yeah, I was always sort of out there. But
then you go to Hollywood and you want to fit,
you want to get jobs. You're a woman, you want
(03:42):
to end, you want to yeah, you're a young woman,
and you really quickly learn that the way that you're
going to continue working is to be a good little
girls to be is to shut up and hit your
mark and say your lines and like. And I was
also able to do that part of it, you know,
I was like because I wanted the jobs so bad.
(04:05):
I wanted to do this thing that was my dream
that I had loved doing since I was a little
kid and had envisioned.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
For my life.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So I was very much able to let that side
of myself in those early years in the business when
I was a kid and you have no power and
you know that you're it's very clear that you're expendable
to just like fall in line and not really make
too much noise because you know, as an young woman
(04:32):
in the nineties, late and.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I was like started my first.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
TV show was ninety nine, so like yeah, early two
thousand and then through the early two thousands. You know,
there was the rough time to be a young woman
in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, we were talking about that on your show. Actually,
how it's a miracle that we've survived and you know
made it this far because there was so many weird
messages and there there was really nobody out there watching
out for us.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh and it was so ingrained in the culture too.
You know, you had like I don't know, even legitimate
at the time, like legitimate journalists like Matt Lauer like yeah,
asking Britney Spears if she's a virgin, you know what
I mean, And like it's like Britney Spears is seventeen
years old?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sor what are you do? You know what I mean? Like,
and we culturally were all just like okay, yeah, like
let's this is the way that it goes.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, anything went yeah, celebrity.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And you remember like it was like the height of
Maxim Stuff magazine and like.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
All of the like gear or whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I don't even know what all the dude magazines were,
but I remember having this conversation with first my publicist,
and then I had like a general meeting at a
big studio for movies and being told like, well, you know,
all the executives get the Maxim Hot one hundred and
(05:58):
they and they, you know, put post it notes on
the girls that they want to see in movies. So
if you're not doing Maxim, you know, your chances of
doing movies is like plummets.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And so yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I put on a bikini and like crawled around on
a like on a steer.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I was.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, I was in Maximum Stuff magazine. Plainboy, No, you
no any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I'm too Midwestern.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well that's what they love, honey. I don't need to
tell you that.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I don't even put you in some pigtails and some
hay and we're good to go. No, But I just yeah,
I was like twenty two, I think, and I was
on Dawson's Creek at the time, and I remember feeling
like also by the way, I was so not empowered
in my own sexuality. It wasn't like a thing that
I was doing like in a way that was empowering
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
In some way, you were just doing what was expected.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I was doing what I was being told was going
to help me get jobs, and like, that's a bummer.
That was a real bo. That's a bummer in retrospect.
And sometimes you know, the autograph guys will still.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Show you those pictures, ask me to sign those pictures
they bring to you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I had one photo shoot where I am like dressed
and all greased up and like, look, my hair's wet.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's very sexualized. And that's the one I always see,
of course, and it's so I mean, to this day,
I'm like, guys, come on, it's been twenty years, get
over it, Like we can't. We gotta find and we
gotta find a more recent pick.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh my god, Okay, I'm I am too a straight shooter.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Do you find that you have been celebrated for being
forthright or do you see it as even today? Is
it something that makes things more difficult for you?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I think we have to hold both. I think that
both things are true. I think I am celebrated by
some and I think that it makes things more difficult
in other ways and makes me not appealing to some people.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, So I'm not surprised, Like if there are people
that don't want to work with me for that reason.
I mean, I don't know, I've never gotten that particular feedback,
but I can imagine that maybe there are. But that's okay,
because I guess I wouldn't really that wouldn't it be
a choice I would want to make anyway at this point?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, you know what you're worth is you know? Yeah?
I love that. A lot of people's a lot of
women struggle with that, I think, and I think that
we're often seen as difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh right, well, did you have the moments like I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I think for me it was my late thirties where
it was like a scene in Memento where all of
a sudden, I was thinking about all the actresses that
I had heard stories about how difficult they were over
the years, and then I was.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like, oh, they were.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Difficult, so they were just voicing what they needed.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
They just had an opinion.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It was so hard back then to stand up. And
I know for me, Shannon Doherty was one. She blazed
the trail for me, and she showed me how it
was okay to stand up for what you wanted and
say no to what you didn't want. And I learned
that from her, And it was that moment where you're like, oh,
she's not difficult. No, that's how they wanted me to
(09:17):
see it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Right, Oh she's hard to work with. Oh she's hard
to work with? Or is she telling you exactly a
way she needs and what she requires in order for
her to do her job. But when a man does it,
of course, or a boy like.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
A boy like sat yeah, you never see men having
to justify them, like speaking their mind, speaking their truth.
But that's what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It's not fair, but so is life.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I mean honestly, yeah, I think it is, but I
think it's better for our girls.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh little bit, you know what it's so. I've found
it so interesting that you were saying your mom inspired
you to be to you know, stand up for things
and speak, speak your mind, and you're doing the same
thing magnified even multiplied for your daughters. And can you
see how strong they are because of that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So strong, so strong.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And a lot of times I feel like people ask
like I get like, you know, parenting questions or whatever
when I do interviews, and I always default to I
don't think you have to do anything except lead by example.
They're always watching you from the time when they're like
baby baby babies. The way that you speak to people
in public, the manners you have are the manners they're
(10:31):
going to have.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You want your kids to say please and thank you.
Guess what you got to say? You have to be
a person that says please and thank you.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Like it's just we think that we can tell our
kids what to be, but the truth is they're going
to They're going to watch us and learn how to
move through the world.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, but I also, like my early twenty year old,
I think even my older twenties, she's in twenty seven
right now, I find that it's hard for them to
stand up and be her. Yeah, and that sometimes you know,
sometimes and I or they'll come to me and talk
about it or talk about it to other people in
the moment, they don't feel comfortable standing up for themselves.
(11:11):
And it's so preconditioned in our culture. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, it's like systemic. I mean, it's really just crazy.
It's crazy that we're just still like like trying to
bang down these doors.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And I'm always encouraging them to. I know it's.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Scary, yeah, but you've got.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
To do it because nobody's going to stand up for you. Correct.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I know, I know, and I think you know,
the more girls that get that message and the more
they continue to do it.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You know, we're going to have to just keep going.
We just have to keep going, push forward, we keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
For I want to talk to you about ADHD because
now I'm so curious. Okay, you've talked about that. You
were recently in recent years diagnosed with ADHD later in life.
That's happening to a lot of women.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I recently had a conversation with Holly Madison and her
autism went undiagnosed until later in her life. She was like,
it explained so much for me.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, will you look back at the totality of your
life and you're like, oh, oh oh, maybe I wasn't
an airhead, Maybe I wasn't terrible in school, Maybe my
brain just worked differently. No one was really identifying it
because as women as girls, ADHD really presented differently than
(12:30):
it presented in boys and like, as we know, the
medical bias in terms of men versus women like is
just it's through your roof for everything, for everything. There's
just not as much research done. They really like focus
on the experience of men and men's health because we
(12:51):
live in this like.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
They put us in the same category. We're just not.
But it just to be that way.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
It just doesn't. It doesn't try. It's not a one
for one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And so for a lot of men and girls, ADHD
presented less like that hyperactive little boy running around, can't
stay in the seat thing and more sort of internalized,
like the chaos was inside. And then I mean I
always think about this, like men and boys really do
seem to go outward with their stuff, right, like their trauma.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
They like, fight, they.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Punch, they get great.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You know, women do tend a lot of times to
really go inward on them, in on themselves and feel
terrible about themselves. And so yeah, like my low self esteem,
low grit because I I just was like, I know,
I am not keeping these things straight. I was always
feeling bad about myself. And my older daughter was having
just some like learning stuff at school or just you know,
(13:49):
the teachers had suggested maybe we get her evaluated for
some learning differences. And as the doctor was going through
the checklist, I was like, I have every single one
of these things that this guy is saying. And afterwards,
my Bertie's dad, my now ex husband.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Was like, that's you.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I was like, it is me.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And so I went to the doctor and you had
got your own appointment. Yeah, I got my own appointment.
I went to another DIY. I went to an adult
doctor and he was like, oh, yeah, you have add
And I started talking about it on the podcast, and
the more I started talking about it, the more women
would reach out and just like, I can't I have
the exact same story. It wasn't until my twelve year
(14:33):
old was being diagnosed that I realized it. My whole
life has a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know. I was sort of always.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Feeling like I couldn't get it together, there was something
wrong with me, And now I feel such Oh, I
feel so much more generous towards myself and my younger son.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I know you feel bad that, Yeah, I kind of
robbed your young the little busy inside of you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes, because I feel like I was really hard on her.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Always hard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, And I just like I would hate that for
my own daughter.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know, you've really paved the way for a lot
of women by opening up that conversation. Because I after
just talking with you this afternoon, I'm good. I want
to go get tested. How do I So it's just testing, Like, well,
there's like verbal testing or.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is there blood testing?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
No, No, they're not blood tests, but they but they'll
like ask you a series of questions and stuff, and like,
you know, there's Look, we're all in a time where
there's a lot going.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
On, Jenny, there's a lot on our minds.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know what I mean, and like and so I
think and not only that, we're in a very particular
time in history where like we're getting so inundated with
information at a level that no one has ever in
history been inundated with before. So you know, I think
that there's a lot of things at play. But I
do know that they're many, many women, you know, like
(16:04):
older millennials, young jen z and who are really finding
this like late in life diagnosis to be incredibly helpful
and you know, finding ways of managing it better.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I mean, you've enlightened me. And I appreciate that because
I you know, I told you before, I bounce from
thing to thing all day long. Yeah, and I don't
finish projects. Yeah, it takes me like weeks and weeks
to finish something, and I leave it in the middle
of the living room floor. Ye, walk around it.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
One thing for me is just like getting I take medication,
and taking the right medication really helps me to focus.
And what's interesting when you say like the tasks, I'm
able to sort of prioritize tasks in a way that
literally never in my life when I'm when I'm taking
my medication, Like, never in my life have I been
(16:55):
able to do this. And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh,
I know exactly what I have to do, and I'm
going to finish this, put it away, and it's no
more like piles on the bottom of the stairs, like
so many piles.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The piles. Yeah, the piles were a joke in my home.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You said, you take medication. Do you mind sharing what
it is that you'll take?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yes, I and I work well, so now then I
like they reached out and I work with a drug
company now, which is amazing. Yes, I mean this is
also guys. I mean, let's just be real. We got
to diversify, you know what I mean, and at this
point in our lives. But it really did work out.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So
it's this medication called Calbery, which is non stimulant. It's
(17:41):
a non stimulant ADHD medication. There are several different types,
and I just think people need to, you know, obviously
talk to their own doctors. I'm not a doctor, but
for me, the non stimulant is better because I already
have been a person my entire life who has issues
winding down, sleeping and getting your brain off, shutting my
(18:03):
brain off.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, I don't want anything that's going to take me.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Up exactly exactly except like a little bit the stimulant
sort of, I guess the ideas with ADHD it sort
of counteracts it.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I think that's what they say.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, it's confusing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, you just have to really, but you do have
to try like different, You just have to you have
to see what works and like yeah, and be open
to the process and that like it might not be
the first thing that you try that makes a difference,
but they know you'll get there the right thing. You'll know, yes,
when you get there, you get there. Yeah, I think
with anything, right.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, you have to experience things in order to know, yeah,
and to learn what doesn't work for you. Yeah. You
recently posted a video on Instagram that really got to me.
It stuck with me. It was so honest and relatable.
You talked about having a weird day and feeling down
on yourself and how when you opened up to your
(18:57):
friend you found out that they feel the same way,
like they're having those days too. Yeah. I absolutely know
how negative talk can't affect my mental health. It can
put me in a bad mood. It can kind of
derail my day sometimes, and I'm most of the time
my own worst enemy. Yeah, and I think it's really interesting,
like how do you turn that car around for yourself?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, it's funny. Look.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, I posted this video because I just felt like
sometimes I have these moments, especially on social media, where
I'm like, if I'm going through this, the chances are
there's like a million other women today who need to
see this right now, this second. And what had happened
was that I was just having this moment where I
was like, oh, what is it. I don't like the
way I look like I'm so old.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I'm getting old.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I'm like, you know whatever, Like I was just going
through this whole thing, and I called one of my friends,
who's like one of the most gorgeous, most put together.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
We're the same age. Basically, you know, like we're the
same age.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And she I called her, not to not to even
vent about this, just to like I just called her
and she started going on about how bad she was feeling.
And I thought to myself, like, Okay, well that's insane.
And I would see it from a difference, yes, because
my perspective, I was like, you were literally the most beautiful,
like put together, You've got it all going like you're
(20:20):
you've literally never been hotter, you know, all of these things.
And then I was like, well, I have to remember
that for myself, like I need to talk to myself
like I'm my own best friend.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And that was it. I was just like, oh, I
have to, I have to. That's that was the switch
I had to flip.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I'm like, would I say would I say that about
my best friend?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I would never say that about my best friend. And
I lost.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I had told you this earlier because I was sharing
the tut about my tattoo. But you know, my high
school best friend Kate passed away. It'll be two years
in August, and you know, she was like didn't make
it to forty six, you know, and and I just
(21:12):
like I just hear her in my head like, guess what,
you get to still be at the party fucking enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, like it puts things into prison. Yeah, like we're
still at the party. We still get to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And and on top of it, we're going to look
back on this time and I'm gonna be like, oh
my god, I was so hot and young.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I know, you know what I mean, because that's how
it is now. When I look at my younger self,
I'm like, oh my god, I was so riddled with
I know, conscious thoughts and hatred inward hatred about one
thing or another, and just worrying about things I couldn't control.
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And I think that too, Like I look back on
my early twenties and my twenties, my twenties period and
I and I'm like, oh, that poor girl was like
I was so oh remember when I like went through
that period of time where I was like trying to run.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Two hours every day, Like what was I doing? Wasting
so much time?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And I try to apply that same logic to myself now.
That is the that's the piece. I'm like, Okay, be
your own best friend. Think, think what Kate would say
to you. And also like, think about how you look
at yourself at even thirty two, you know, and I'm like, okay, girl,
you're you've got it, like.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
You've got it. You look amazing, everything's great. You're young.
You're the youngest you're ever going to be again, right now,
right now.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Take advantage of this. Yes, live it up. Yeah, it
passes like that. Yes, Or if something tragic happens in
your life ends like yeah, yeah, may as well have
enjoyed it. Death really puts things now into perspective, majorly
when someone you and someone you're close too dies, Yeah,
gives you a lot of pause to think about things.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, was that for you with Shannon, like said one
of the first people that that really was like your contemporary.
I mean, and of course you guys were kids together
as well, so.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It was actually Luke. Oh yeah, I lost my dad
and then I lost Luke, and then the world lost Luke,
and then Shannon, and both of those my you know, friends,
my companions for so long gone. It just you wake
up and you're like, I'm so lucky and grateful to
(23:37):
be alive because literally I could die the next moment. Yeah,
And it just makes you think about like living your
life to the fullest and being happy. Like I spent
a lot of time not being happy and like wondering
what the fuck is wrong with me? Why can't I
be happy? And I it just changes everything.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
It's a real perspective shift. And it's also so difficult too,
because I think when people haven't lost someone that they're
so close to, it's hard for them.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
To get it. It's just hard to get it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, my husband he lost a kind of close friend,
but someone he went to school with. But that's it.
He's never lost a parent, a grandparent, you know, never
lost so he hadn't no not that he hasn't lost
somebody like his contemporary.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And someone you're really like, really close, so it's been
connected to forever. But I still feel like I don't
know how you are. But I definitely like Kate is
around all the time, and she like sends me signs
and like I just feel her presence in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Isn't that a trip? Like when someone you are very
close with. I notice this with my dad the first
time when he died and I noticed, I thought, Oh,
that's it. He's dead. He's gone. I'll never see him,
speak to him, feel him again. I mourned that so hard,
and then at a certain point one day, I just
remember the wind blew yes, Oh my god, and you
(25:08):
just I just instantly just started crying because you knew
it was him, because I could feeling like I get
I'm having the children now too, because you can feel them,
and I in that moment sort of translated into it's
not a loss. It's now they're with you all the time.
You can talk to them anytime you want. I know,
(25:28):
like you have full access to.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You know, I like Kate is around more now than
ever when we were you know, like we spent we
were kids together and then we spent so many years
of our lives apart because I lived in La she
lived in Arizona, and then in New Jersey and we
had children, and you know, we would try to get
together and but I would see maybe a couple of
times a year. We'd talk on the phone almost every
(25:52):
day at least, and then sometimes once a week if
we get we're both busy. But now it's like, yeah,
she's with me all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
There's something so comforting about it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's really special and and yeah, and a constant reminder
that like, first of all, we don't know anything nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
We have no control over anything, and we know nothing
and we don't know how it all works. But I
do know that they're here with us.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah. Yeah, it's comforting. I feel like it's a better
way to look at things. Otherwise it's just kind of
lonely and sad and just sad about it.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But I was really sad the other night. I was
feeling really lonely.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
It's hard, you know, like being divorced and I'm living
in a new city. Really it's like I've only been
here since twenty twenty, which is I know, five years,
but it's been a weird five years.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, and a lot has happened.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And I lived in LA for twenty three before that.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And the other night, I was feeling really lonely and
I was kind of like waiting for some to call me,
and like I was just like bummed, and I was
listening to music and Kate's like favorite song came on
like out of nowhere, randomly, and it's not a song
that comes on very frequently, you know what I mean.
(27:14):
It's not like on my heavy rotation. It just doesn't happen.
And I just was like, I'm not alone I get
that you're here.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I love you. Oh my god, it's so comforting. I
know people Yeah, and people don't really. I mean, because
you're a spiritual person. I take you as a spirit person.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Spiritual person.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Do you believe in angels?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Of course? Of course, obviously there are people that don't
believe in angel that's crazy. I mean I talk to
them all the time, and I I send them to people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And you know, whenever any of my family is on
a flight, yes, yeah, playing with them, yes, And it's
such a great feeling because they're there to help you.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I have one believe in that. Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Do you think when we die, we our bodies stop, right,
and then our soul goes on? And then is that
the angel that I'm feeling?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think it's yeah. I mean I feel like I
actually don't know. I mean I feel like it's like
on an energetic level, on a molecular level, and I
don't know. I think that time doesn't I mean time
doesn't exist right, Like, actually time doesn't exist right.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Somebody made that up, right.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It gets into like quantum physics of it too, which
is insane and not something that I can really drap
my head around.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I did drop out of college to be on Freaks
and Geeks.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I dropped out of high school to be on TV.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
So I did drop I did drop out.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So I can't I can't speak to the quantum physics
of it, but I'm interested in that. But I do
think there's just I think it becomes like some sort
of expanded energy field that like, yeah, that their presence.
It's a it's energetic and it's you know, shows up
and is able to show up and do things like
change your Spotify to play woman's work.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
But I don't shit it, but it really works. So
I know you talked about that you have like bad days,
you're feeling bad self limiting thoughts. Yeah, yeah, what I
heard this great thing actually last night from my daughter.
(29:30):
She was saying, if you talk badly, if you have
negative self talk, you have to stop yourself and say
three things that you love about yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So what are what are three things you could say
that you love about yourself?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Oh my gosh, you know what, I really I have
so much that I love about myself.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
That is amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I am like very generous in all of the ways
with people, like with my time, with money, with like
anything you need, like resources, connections, other friends, Like I
know a person who can help you out, Like you
better believe that, like you're gonna get that information. I'm
(30:14):
gonna like help if I can see a way in
which I can be a helper. I always am doing
it or giving someone something or like like literally like
oh you like this bacelet here, just take it like
I'm just like I'm just very much. Don't come up
to me on the street and ask me for my bracelets.
But but but I do. I do tend to be
(30:34):
I love that I'm I love my generosity. I love
that I'm in my time and mostly like my time,
like I I feel like I'm very generous with my
time to things that I care about, and.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I show up for people that I love.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Are you a hard worker? Yeah, I can tell.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
An insanely hard working. We're again Midwestern something yeah, instilled
in us from the I think the fields are something.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I started working professionally in high school. I worked at
Calvernia Pizza Kitchen in high school, like a restaurant job.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love that place will instill a work ethic like
nobody's business totally. But I was always a hustler.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I was like always hustling, like I still to this day,
I like kind of consider myself a hustler.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But I also have all of.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
These things that I want to show up for social
justice issues and you know.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
All acts of service. All you're doing acts of service.
It's all about your generosity.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So I love that. Okay, I love my nose. I
have a perfect nose.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Really do what you were born with.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
That it's natural. No nose job ever, guys, nothing nothing beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Thanks. I really really love my nose.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I was thinking, how beautiful your eyes are?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I do love my eyes, but my nose is really
my favorite of my physical attributes.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I really love my nose, and and I love I
love my well, I love my kids, but like about
myself like I love.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I love how. I love that I'm an open person.
I love how open I am. It makes me feel
less alone. And I love that if it can bring
other people some comfort, then that's such an incredible bonus.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
So I really love that too. So those are my
three things.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I love all of those things about you so so much.
You said you love your kids. You have two daughters.
I have three daughters.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
My ex husband was like, should I have the third
before we got divorced.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I was like, I know, man, damn yeah, threes, three's fun,
but two is great, two is great. One was real nice.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, I thought it was just gonna be one, one
and done. I kind of did because I was young too.
I mean, you were very young. How old were you
twenty twenty four? Twenty four? Oh okay, Michelle was twenty
four when she had met told it. I think I
was twenty. I had just turned twenty nine when I
gave birt I was twenty eight, like my whole pregnancy,
and then I had Bertie at twenty nine. But like,
(33:07):
having kids in your twenties is a lot when you're working, it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Is a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
It's a lot to have kids editing point at any point, but.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, being a working mom full time, it was really
hard taking that baby a set with you at six
a m.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
That's right, That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
So I was like, well, I don't know if that's
going to happen again, and I was on it.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I was on Cougartown.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
By the way. I love doing that. Thank you, I
really really I love that show, but that started.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I did the pilot when she was six months old,
and then started on her first birthday, so Bertie, So
those first few years of her life, I felt totally
overwhelmed and underwater, and thankfully had the greatest nanny of
all time, Ileana, who made my entire life possible and
(33:51):
made Bertie's life very enriched and loved and was able
to like schlep her down to Culver City to the
studio every day by Nina.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I call her my Nina. Yeah, she was the nanny
as well. She's my best friend, my mom, everything all
rolled into one. Oh, she raised my children.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, we were in a partner. Yeah, Eleanna and I
were partners, and and it really was. She's just she
was just such an incredibly important person in my life
and in my kids' lives, and uh but I didn't think.
I was like, I think I can just handle the one.
(34:30):
And then Bertie like turned four, and I was like,
but maybe, yeah, it takes it. I think, you know, no,
this is what I do. Because there's three of them.
I can't remember which is which.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Luca was four or five when I decided, well, Aiden,
all my kids were happy.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Accidents oh, well that's great.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, I wanted to have a second one and I
went that wasn't happening, and I went to acupuncture and
that didn't work. And then of course three months later
I was pregnant. Of course, so it did work. Like
it's still turns out something, yeah, yep. But what do
you think when it comes to raising these young women
and sending them out to the world on their own? Now,
what are some of your biggest fears? Oh?
Speaker 3 (35:12):
My god, obviously, well, I mean this is like so dark,
but my biggest fear is that they'll be sexually assaulted,
raped and murdered.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yes, I mean that is dark, but can happen.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And then my second, like my fear one A is
that they will be sexually assaulted, raped, or murdered by
someone they love. Because statistically speaking, as women, like, that's
a well that's a reality, and I know that's really tough.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No matter how strong we raise them to be.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Of course, but that's the thing, like, as you've lived
your full life, like I'm sure I have had friends
who i've then who have later then you know, revealed
to me that they were in an abusive relationship or
you know, it's not it's not like.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You just don't know, you just don't know. But I
that is like my biggest fear. That is just my
biggest fear, period, full stop and always has been. And
then I guess beyond that, I'm hopeful, and I think
that my ex husband Mark and I have raised them
(36:26):
in a way and continue to, by the way, raise
them in a way that they feel very secure and
safe with us so that they would tell they would
be able to come to us with anything in any
kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You know, it sounds like you and your ex husband
have a good relationship moving forward as far as its
co parenting. Yeah, we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We're trying. We did a lot of the we're always easy. Yeah, Yeah,
I did it too in there. And it's just so
much better when you get to the place where you
just accept it and you forgive. Yeah, and you move forward.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yes, And I think for us, our relationship now and
I mean, I'm sure yours in Peter's obviously is I
can't even do the math. But it's been a long
time Mark and I have known each other now, like
it'll be twenty years in June. You know, it's like
(37:25):
a huge chunk of my life like that this person
has been in and we have always been deeply committed
to the love that we have together for our kids,
because we do have love together for our children.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And you obviously have love for him because I made
your children. I do, I do, and you spend so
much time with them. Yes, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And you know, and he and I had sort of
like an evolution of our relationship and we worked in
therapy for a really long time before we actually separated
to try to just see what was possible and what
our relationship could look like. And so it's it's shifted
(38:12):
and evolved and it looks different and like, you know,
but I just want I mean what I want for him.
I know he wants for me, which is ultimately like
we want each other to be happy and fulfilled.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, well that's what we should all want for people
that we like love in any way at any time,
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Right, Yeah, absolutely So. On this podcast we talk about
the choices we make and where they lead us. What
would you say, looking at your life as a whole,
was the most impactful choice or decision that you've made
so far? The most impactful that's a big question.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I mean, it's huge because we make.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Thirty five thousand choices every day at least.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I mean, I think that we all have real sliding
doors moments, you know, And I always think I'm very
much like a could have gone either way, you never know,
like you could have picked door number two and still
I could. I could have picked door number two and
(39:18):
still could have ended up right here talking to you
through another set of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Maybe this was always meant to be, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
What I mean, Maybe I was this person you know
that I am in this version sitting here talking to you,
and maybe the journey would have looked different, you know.
I mean I had an abortion when I was fifteen,
and I think that, like I've obviously talked very publicly
and openly about it, but I think that my life
(39:46):
would have looked vastly different had I not been able
to make that decision safely and with support. And I
get I'm very I am very concerned to continue to
be very concerned.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
About the safety of.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Women and girls in our country, and because it is
you know, there are many reasons why women need access
to abortion care, but one of them is to be
able to control their futures and their lives. And I
was able to do that and I'm so grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah that's a big decision. Yeah, it was. It was
a big decision to have to make a child. Yeah,
basically a child. Yeah, Okay, I love that your podcast
is called doing your Best.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, Busy Phillips is doing your best?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
What that's all we can do. But what does doing
your best mean to you?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I mean it totally changes all the time, but doing
your best means that you, like genuinely are like, this
is what I'm capable of in this moment in time.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
This is my best. I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
And I try to like really show up with my
best for people, and sometimes I'm not.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Sometimes I don't.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It's not it doesn't work and I fail, but I
really do try. And sometimes we talk about on the podcast.
Sometimes I'm like, you know what I did my best
at this week? I got rid of the piles on
the stairs. Yeah, look at me, look at me. That
was what I was able to do this week. Or
I remembered to go pick up my dry cleaning this
(41:24):
week and that was a big deal.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Just acknowledging those little wins. It is important.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, And so like on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I mean it's sort of like almost like a gratitude
journal in a way too, because I'm like, you know what,
I did my best. I did my best at parenting
you know today with that situation. Didn't do my best yesterday,
But that's okay, Like there's always tomorrow, you know whatever,
right right?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, you said before, I know you're really close friends
with Michelle. Yeah, and I think she's wonderful Michelle Williams.
Do you believe in soulmates when it comes to your girlfriend? Oh? Yeah,
do you think it's like predestined? Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I do kind of.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I think Michelle and I were always supposed to meet.
We almost did, like several times too.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
But you met way back on Dawson's on Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, but even before that, like we then I remember
at the time when we finally like or when we
finally when we first met and like became like instantly
new that we were meant to be together for life.
We were like, wait, you were in you know, doing math.
I like you were in London staying in this hotel
and this month or this week and this month, and
(42:33):
was like, yeah, like we were both in this hotel,
like we must have seen you know, yeah, like stuff
like that, like did you see Past Lives? The movie
the Selene saw movie Past Lives?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think, so I don't remember anything. Okay, sounds familiar.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
But they talk about that idea. It's the Korean idea
of a mom. Imma, mom, you're asking me. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I think it's called mom. But where it's like, oh,
Michelle just texted.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Me see see weird See I love those moments.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I know me too. Well.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
This has been happening to me so much recently, like
in such an intense way where like I'll think about
somebody and then the text pops up. Two days ago,
I was talking about a vitamin that I started taking
because a girl that I used to go to soul
cycle with in Los Angeles like ten years ago told
me about it. And I have not spoken to this
girl in forever. And she texted two minutes later, well.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's the thing. You know, you're exactly where you're supposed
to be when you have those synchronoic cities.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
One hundred percent weight. We have to look up the
proper word for this, guys. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's the idea that.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Every person that you come in contact with you have
like past life history with.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
That's kind of nice.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
You should watch the movie again, I will you. I
in yan Inyan Indian Indian, right, it's in Onion, but
Indian Indian. Yeah, Indian Indian, and so it's like the
idea of Indian.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Right, I'm gonna look, I'm going to research.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You should and you should also just watch that movie
again if you did, because it was really good.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
You have a special bond though, with your past from
Dawson's Creek, like certain members on that you've still friends with,
like Michelle.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Well, actually we all have been sort of chatting, yeah, recently,
because as I mean, I'm sure you really to, like
James got a cancer, James Vanderbia got a cancer diagnosis,
and I think it really was shocking for everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
And come back together.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, and so we've all been kind of like checking
in and texting and reaching out and making sure everybody's
doing good and doing all right and where is everyone?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
And yeah, and Michelle and.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
I got together with Katie, which hadn't happened in a
long time, even though you know, just life like just happened.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yes, And I had reached.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Out to Josh after the fires because I knew that
he had lost his home anyway, like we had been
talking and.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, and reached out. I just, you know, Yeah, you
spend a lot of time with these people when you're young, young,
and that's very formulive those years. Yeah, but I feel
that way about the freaks and geeks cast too. I
just you know, I can go like literally like year
two years without seeing or talking to one of them,
(45:22):
and then I run into them or talk call Linda
or text her, and then it's just like it's not nothing,
not time. Yeah, exactly same as us. Yeah, it's like
your high literally guys, like your high school.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Friends somehow closer because yeah, thrust into these weird situations
exactly well before I let you go, Yes, Busy Phillips, Yes,
what was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Oh my gosh, Well I think my last I Choose
me moment, uh was a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I was like, this is the thing, Like, I'm like
a I told I'm like a person that shows up,
I do things.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
But I had I was supposed to go to.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
LA for like twenty four hours to perform in this
live show that was supposed to be. It's a fun
thing that I've done for years, this live show, and
I love it. But I had had just a really
really emotionally taxing like with kids stuff and personal life
stuff and probably periomenopause. I don't I don't know, you
(46:27):
know what I mean. Like, I was just like very
I was like emotional, and we were about to start
filming the talk show, so I would have had to
fly there. Yeah, And I had just had cricket for
spring break and had taken her to the UK, so
I was back in New York.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
I was jet lagged.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
I was going through all this other stuff with you
just I don't need to get into, but like, you know,
just emotional stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
And I called the guys and I was like, guys,
I can't come. I can't come to I'm gonna. I
need to choose myself and my mental health.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
I really felt like if I got on a plane
for six hours to go perform in two shows, one
at six pm and one at nine pm, and then
get back on a six am flight back to New
York and then film my first show two days later,
I would be a mess and I wouldn't be able
to do any of those things well. And there's an
(47:18):
older version of me that would have been like power
through it, suck it up, be it, tripper up. But
I was like, no, I'm just going to be honest
with my friends about this thing that I had committed
to previously when I thought I could do it, but
like situations had changed. There was like new information and
(47:39):
you know.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
They were disappointed and that was really hard for you.
But did you feel relief? Well?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I felt immediate relief.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But I want to say this, like the guys who
produce this show, it's this live like stage show that
I have done for ten years called The Thrilling Adventure Hour,
and they like released it as podcasts too, and they
do it with a bunch of other actors and so fun.
And the guys who write the entire thing are awesome,
but like, just full disclosure, neither one of them have children,
(48:07):
do you know what I mean? And so I sort
of was like kind of preemptively like, oh, they're not
going to get it, and they're not going to be
kind about it.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
They're going to just be mad at me. That was
like what I thought.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
And they wrote back with the nicest, loveliest like you're
mentally like you're the most important. You're your well being
is more important than our show. We'll figure it out.
Don't worry about it. Take care of yourself. They yeah,
and I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You guys really are my friends.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, it was really nice.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
That's a good when I hear that a lot, saying
notice things. Yes.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well, it's a hard thing for people like us to do, I.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Think, especially when you're a generous Yeah, your time and
you're everything, and I want to show up. Yeah, you know,
because that's who you are.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yes, But I don't. I tend to not I do
tend to not over extend. I will say that the
canceling last minute was really like, this was a thing
that I don't I'm not a person who does that.
I don't flake, but this was like a step beyond.
It wasn't a flake. It was like, if I do this,
I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, I've been there. Yeah, I think I've had the
nervous break day. But it's so good when you say
no to yes, it is Yeah, Well you didn't flake
on me today. I didn't flake on you. No, And
I'm so happy that our paths crossed. We had such
a good day to get Yeah, it was so nice.
I love chatting with you and I love your clothes. Look,
look you're wearing my vest. You're wearing me by Jenny Garth.
(49:35):
It's Me by Jenny Garth. There you go. What are
you wearing me?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Me by Jenny Garth.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna go pick up my gut now, Okay,
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. So
my guest today is brave and bold. She is unapologetically
who she is. Not to mention, she's spunky, which is
(00:25):
my favorite kind of lady. You know her from roles
in Freaks and Geeks Dawson's Creek, I Feel Pretty. I
happen to love her in Cougartown opposite Courtney Cox. Her
show Busy this Week on QVC Plus is so fun.
I know because I was just on it. She is
also the co host of her own podcast, Busy Phillips
(00:46):
is doing her best. Please welcome Busy Phillips to the podcast. Okay,
I am so happy to have you on the podcast.
This is really fun.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We've spent some time together now, I know, yes, because
I was just on your show.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah. It was a blast.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And I got to know so much about you, which
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We have so much in common, which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Much like it keeps happening and we talk more about it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I did more than I mean I knew.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I knew you were from Arizona because I remember being
a kid wanting to be an actor and knowing that
you were from Arizona, like you and David Spade. That
was that was like the two people on television from
where I'm from is yeah, ten then David's Paige.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And look, and then you ended up in Hollywood. Yeah,
out of Arizona.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
There must be something in the water. There's definitely something
in the water. I think it's the proximity.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm not even kidding, Like I feel like, I don't
know if you've I feel felt like Phoenix was like
a suburb of Los Angeles kind of in a weird way.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, you can get there close. Yes, there's no traffic
on that highway.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, there's not. Well now they're probably the desert. Well yeah, yeah,
you just do it, you just fly.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I loved it. Well, I love being there, and I
loved living in the desert. There's something so settling and
grounding about the desert for me.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I'm Casey who's my producer on the talk show says
that I'm like a heat seeking lizard because I will
like lay down on hot rocks. We're so good, I know,
but it's so funny. It's like, I don't know, I
just I missed the heat and I miss the warm.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you get back there? Do you go?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, I haven't been in a while.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You don't have family there or anything.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I have a brother half brother there, but I haven't
seen him in so long. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Kind of a great place to vacation. I'm not gonna lie.
And you were just there.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, you gotta go hiking there too. So lovely. Yeah, Okay,
you're just out there. You're challenging the norms. You are
sharing deeply personal stories and things that have happened to you,
and you're standing up for what's right. I'm curious, were
you always, even as a kid, someone who wasn't afraid
to use her voice or did that come to you
(02:51):
later in life because you're so outspoken. Yeah, that's one
of the things that I really admire about you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Thanks so much. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I mean, I think that speaking out about issues that
are important to me was always something that was valued
in my household and something that I saw my mom
doing and being very vocal about things that she was
passionate about, and and especially values like you know, the
things equality and and especially because you know, I grew
(03:21):
up in the like nineties, like gay marriage, like even
you know back then, like you know, my mom say
you know, and being very vocal about that kind of stuff.
I don't know, And so then I think it was
just yeah, I was always sort of out there. But
then you go to Hollywood and you want to fit,
you want to get jobs. You're a woman, you want
(03:42):
to end, you want to yeah, you're a young woman,
and you really quickly learn that the way that you're
going to continue working is to be a good little
girls to be is to shut up and hit your
mark and say your lines and like. And I was
also able to do that part of it, you know,
I was like because I wanted the jobs so bad.
(04:05):
I wanted to do this thing that was my dream
that I had loved doing since I was a little
kid and had envisioned.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
For my life.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So I was very much able to let that side
of myself in those early years in the business when
I was a kid and you have no power and
you know that you're it's very clear that you're expendable
to just like fall in line and not really make
too much noise because you know, as an young woman
(04:32):
in the nineties, late and.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I was like started my first.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
TV show was ninety nine, so like yeah, early two
thousand and then through the early two thousands. You know,
there was the rough time to be a young woman
in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, we were talking about that on your show. Actually,
how it's a miracle that we've survived and you know
made it this far because there was so many weird
messages and there there was really nobody out there watching
out for us.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh and it was so ingrained in the culture too.
You know, you had like I don't know, even legitimate
at the time, like legitimate journalists like Matt Lauer like yeah,
asking Britney Spears if she's a virgin, you know what
I mean, And like it's like Britney Spears is seventeen
years old?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sor what are you do? You know what I mean? Like,
and we culturally were all just like okay, yeah, like
let's this is the way that it goes.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, anything went yeah, celebrity.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And you remember like it was like the height of
Maxim Stuff magazine and like.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
All of the like gear or whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I don't even know what all the dude magazines were,
but I remember having this conversation with first my publicist,
and then I had like a general meeting at a
big studio for movies and being told like, well, you know,
all the executives get the Maxim Hot one hundred and
(05:58):
they and they, you know, put post it notes on
the girls that they want to see in movies. So
if you're not doing Maxim, you know, your chances of
doing movies is like plummets.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And so yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I put on a bikini and like crawled around on
a like on a steer.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I was.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, I was in Maximum Stuff magazine. Plainboy, No, you
no any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I'm too Midwestern.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well that's what they love, honey. I don't need to
tell you that.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I don't even put you in some pigtails and some
hay and we're good to go. No, But I just yeah,
I was like twenty two, I think, and I was
on Dawson's Creek at the time, and I remember feeling
like also by the way, I was so not empowered
in my own sexuality. It wasn't like a thing that
I was doing like in a way that was empowering
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
In some way, you were just doing what was expected.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I was doing what I was being told was going
to help me get jobs, and like, that's a bummer.
That was a real bo. That's a bummer in retrospect.
And sometimes you know, the autograph guys will still.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Show you those pictures, ask me to sign those pictures
they bring to you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I had one photo shoot where I am like dressed
and all greased up and like, look, my hair's wet.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's very sexualized. And that's the one I always see,
of course, and it's so I mean, to this day,
I'm like, guys, come on, it's been twenty years, get
over it, Like we can't. We gotta find and we
gotta find a more recent pick.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh my god, Okay, I'm I am too a straight shooter.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Do you find that you have been celebrated for being
forthright or do you see it as even today? Is
it something that makes things more difficult for you?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I think we have to hold both. I think that
both things are true. I think I am celebrated by
some and I think that it makes things more difficult
in other ways and makes me not appealing to some people.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, So I'm not surprised, Like if there are people
that don't want to work with me for that reason.
I mean, I don't know, I've never gotten that particular feedback,
but I can imagine that maybe there are. But that's okay,
because I guess I wouldn't really that wouldn't it be
a choice I would want to make anyway at this point?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, you know what you're worth is you know? Yeah?
I love that. A lot of people's a lot of
women struggle with that, I think, and I think that
we're often seen as difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh right, well, did you have the moments like I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I think for me it was my late thirties where
it was like a scene in Memento where all of
a sudden, I was thinking about all the actresses that
I had heard stories about how difficult they were over
the years, and then I was.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like, oh, they were.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Difficult, so they were just voicing what they needed.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
They just had an opinion.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It was so hard back then to stand up. And
I know for me, Shannon Doherty was one. She blazed
the trail for me, and she showed me how it
was okay to stand up for what you wanted and
say no to what you didn't want. And I learned
that from her, And it was that moment where you're like, oh,
she's not difficult. No, that's how they wanted me to
(09:17):
see it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Right, Oh she's hard to work with. Oh she's hard
to work with? Or is she telling you exactly a
way she needs and what she requires in order for
her to do her job. But when a man does it,
of course, or a boy like.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
A boy like sat yeah, you never see men having
to justify them, like speaking their mind, speaking their truth.
But that's what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It's not fair, but so is life.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I mean honestly, yeah, I think it is, but I
think it's better for our girls.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh little bit, you know what it's so. I've found
it so interesting that you were saying your mom inspired
you to be to you know, stand up for things
and speak, speak your mind, and you're doing the same
thing magnified even multiplied for your daughters. And can you
see how strong they are because of that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So strong, so strong.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And a lot of times I feel like people ask
like I get like, you know, parenting questions or whatever
when I do interviews, and I always default to I
don't think you have to do anything except lead by example.
They're always watching you from the time when they're like
baby baby babies. The way that you speak to people
in public, the manners you have are the manners they're
(10:31):
going to have.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
You want your kids to say please and thank you.
Guess what you got to say? You have to be
a person that says please and thank you.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Like it's just we think that we can tell our
kids what to be, but the truth is they're going
to They're going to watch us and learn how to
move through the world.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, but I also, like my early twenty year old,
I think even my older twenties, she's in twenty seven
right now, I find that it's hard for them to
stand up and be her. Yeah, and that sometimes you know,
sometimes and I or they'll come to me and talk
about it or talk about it to other people in
the moment, they don't feel comfortable standing up for themselves.
(11:11):
And it's so preconditioned in our culture. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, it's like systemic. I mean, it's really just crazy.
It's crazy that we're just still like like trying to
bang down these doors.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And I'm always encouraging them to. I know it's.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Scary, yeah, but you've got.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
To do it because nobody's going to stand up for you. Correct.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I know, I know, and I think you know,
the more girls that get that message and the more
they continue to do it.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You know, we're going to have to just keep going.
We just have to keep going, push forward, we keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
For I want to talk to you about ADHD because
now I'm so curious. Okay, you've talked about that. You
were recently in recent years diagnosed with ADHD later in life.
That's happening to a lot of women.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I recently had a conversation with Holly Madison and her
autism went undiagnosed until later in her life. She was like,
it explained so much for me.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, will you look back at the totality of your
life and you're like, oh, oh oh, maybe I wasn't
an airhead, Maybe I wasn't terrible in school, Maybe my
brain just worked differently. No one was really identifying it
because as women as girls, ADHD really presented differently than
(12:30):
it presented in boys and like, as we know, the
medical bias in terms of men versus women like is
just it's through your roof for everything, for everything. There's
just not as much research done. They really like focus
on the experience of men and men's health because we
(12:51):
live in this like.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
They put us in the same category. We're just not.
But it just to be that way.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
It just doesn't. It doesn't try. It's not a one
for one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And so for a lot of men and girls, ADHD
presented less like that hyperactive little boy running around, can't
stay in the seat thing and more sort of internalized,
like the chaos was inside. And then I mean I
always think about this, like men and boys really do
seem to go outward with their stuff, right, like their trauma.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
They like, fight, they.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Punch, they get great.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You know, women do tend a lot of times to
really go inward on them, in on themselves and feel
terrible about themselves. And so yeah, like my low self esteem,
low grit because I I just was like, I know,
I am not keeping these things straight. I was always
feeling bad about myself. And my older daughter was having
just some like learning stuff at school or just you know,
(13:49):
the teachers had suggested maybe we get her evaluated for
some learning differences. And as the doctor was going through
the checklist, I was like, I have every single one
of these things that this guy is saying. And afterwards,
my Bertie's dad, my now ex husband.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Was like, that's you.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I was like, it is me.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And so I went to the doctor and you had
got your own appointment. Yeah, I got my own appointment.
I went to another DIY. I went to an adult
doctor and he was like, oh, yeah, you have add
And I started talking about it on the podcast, and
the more I started talking about it, the more women
would reach out and just like, I can't I have
the exact same story. It wasn't until my twelve year
(14:33):
old was being diagnosed that I realized it. My whole
life has a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know. I was sort of always.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Feeling like I couldn't get it together, there was something
wrong with me, And now I feel such Oh, I
feel so much more generous towards myself and my younger son.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I know you feel bad that, Yeah, I kind of
robbed your young the little busy inside of you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes, because I feel like I was really hard on her.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Always hard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, And I just like I would hate that for
my own daughter.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know, you've really paved the way for a lot
of women by opening up that conversation. Because I after
just talking with you this afternoon, I'm good. I want
to go get tested. How do I So it's just testing, Like, well,
there's like verbal testing or.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is there blood testing?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
No, No, they're not blood tests, but they but they'll
like ask you a series of questions and stuff, and like,
you know, there's Look, we're all in a time where
there's a lot going.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
On, Jenny, there's a lot on our minds.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know what I mean, and like and so I
think and not only that, we're in a very particular
time in history where like we're getting so inundated with
information at a level that no one has ever in
history been inundated with before. So you know, I think
that there's a lot of things at play. But I
do know that they're many, many women, you know, like
(16:04):
older millennials, young jen z and who are really finding
this like late in life diagnosis to be incredibly helpful
and you know, finding ways of managing it better.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I mean, you've enlightened me. And I appreciate that because
I you know, I told you before, I bounce from
thing to thing all day long. Yeah, and I don't
finish projects. Yeah, it takes me like weeks and weeks
to finish something, and I leave it in the middle
of the living room floor. Ye, walk around it.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
One thing for me is just like getting I take medication,
and taking the right medication really helps me to focus.
And what's interesting when you say like the tasks, I'm
able to sort of prioritize tasks in a way that
literally never in my life when I'm when I'm taking
my medication, Like, never in my life have I been
(16:55):
able to do this. And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh,
I know exactly what I have to do, and I'm
going to finish this, put it away, and it's no
more like piles on the bottom of the stairs, like
so many piles.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The piles. Yeah, the piles were a joke in my home.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You said, you take medication. Do you mind sharing what
it is that you'll take?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yes, I and I work well, so now then I
like they reached out and I work with a drug
company now, which is amazing. Yes, I mean this is
also guys. I mean, let's just be real. We got
to diversify, you know what I mean, and at this
point in our lives. But it really did work out.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So
it's this medication called Calbery, which is non stimulant. It's
(17:41):
a non stimulant ADHD medication. There are several different types,
and I just think people need to, you know, obviously
talk to their own doctors. I'm not a doctor, but
for me, the non stimulant is better because I already
have been a person my entire life who has issues
winding down, sleeping and getting your brain off, shutting my
(18:03):
brain off.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, I don't want anything that's going to take me.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Up exactly exactly except like a little bit the stimulant
sort of, I guess the ideas with ADHD it sort
of counteracts it.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I think that's what they say.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, it's confusing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, you just have to really, but you do have
to try like different, You just have to you have
to see what works and like yeah, and be open
to the process and that like it might not be
the first thing that you try that makes a difference,
but they know you'll get there the right thing. You'll know, yes,
when you get there, you get there. Yeah, I think
with anything, right.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, you have to experience things in order to know, yeah,
and to learn what doesn't work for you. Yeah. You
recently posted a video on Instagram that really got to me.
It stuck with me. It was so honest and relatable.
You talked about having a weird day and feeling down
on yourself and how when you opened up to your
(18:57):
friend you found out that they feel the same way,
like they're having those days too. Yeah. I absolutely know
how negative talk can't affect my mental health. It can
put me in a bad mood. It can kind of
derail my day sometimes, and I'm most of the time
my own worst enemy. Yeah, and I think it's really interesting,
like how do you turn that car around for yourself?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, it's funny. Look.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, I posted this video because I just felt like
sometimes I have these moments, especially on social media, where
I'm like, if I'm going through this, the chances are
there's like a million other women today who need to
see this right now, this second. And what had happened
was that I was just having this moment where I
was like, oh, what is it. I don't like the
way I look like I'm so old.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I'm getting old.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I'm like, you know whatever, Like I was just going
through this whole thing, and I called one of my friends,
who's like one of the most gorgeous, most put together.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
We're the same age. Basically, you know, like we're the
same age.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And she I called her, not to not to even
vent about this, just to like I just called her
and she started going on about how bad she was feeling.
And I thought to myself, like, Okay, well that's insane.
And I would see it from a difference, yes, because
my perspective, I was like, you were literally the most beautiful,
like put together, You've got it all going like you're
(20:20):
you've literally never been hotter, you know, all of these things.
And then I was like, well, I have to remember
that for myself, like I need to talk to myself
like I'm my own best friend.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And that was it. I was just like, oh, I
have to, I have to. That's that was the switch
I had to flip.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I'm like, would I say would I say that about
my best friend?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I would never say that about my best friend. And
I lost.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I had told you this earlier because I was sharing
the tut about my tattoo. But you know, my high
school best friend Kate passed away. It'll be two years
in August, and you know, she was like didn't make
it to forty six, you know, and and I just
(21:12):
like I just hear her in my head like, guess what,
you get to still be at the party fucking enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, like it puts things into prison. Yeah, like we're
still at the party. We still get to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And and on top of it, we're going to look
back on this time and I'm gonna be like, oh
my god, I was so hot and young.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I know, you know what I mean, because that's how
it is now. When I look at my younger self,
I'm like, oh my god, I was so riddled with
I know, conscious thoughts and hatred inward hatred about one
thing or another, and just worrying about things I couldn't control.
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And I think that too, Like I look back on
my early twenties and my twenties, my twenties period and
I and I'm like, oh, that poor girl was like
I was so oh remember when I like went through
that period of time where I was like trying to run.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Two hours every day, Like what was I doing? Wasting
so much time?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And I try to apply that same logic to myself now.
That is the that's the piece. I'm like, Okay, be
your own best friend. Think, think what Kate would say
to you. And also like, think about how you look
at yourself at even thirty two, you know, and I'm like, okay, girl,
you're you've got it, like.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
You've got it. You look amazing, everything's great. You're young.
You're the youngest you're ever going to be again, right now,
right now.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Take advantage of this. Yes, live it up. Yeah, it
passes like that. Yes, Or if something tragic happens in
your life ends like yeah, yeah, may as well have
enjoyed it. Death really puts things now into perspective, majorly
when someone you and someone you're close too dies, Yeah,
gives you a lot of pause to think about things.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, was that for you with Shannon, like said one
of the first people that that really was like your contemporary.
I mean, and of course you guys were kids together
as well, so.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It was actually Luke. Oh yeah, I lost my dad
and then I lost Luke, and then the world lost Luke,
and then Shannon, and both of those my you know, friends,
my companions for so long gone. It just you wake
up and you're like, I'm so lucky and grateful to
(23:37):
be alive because literally I could die the next moment. Yeah,
And it just makes you think about like living your
life to the fullest and being happy. Like I spent
a lot of time not being happy and like wondering
what the fuck is wrong with me? Why can't I
be happy? And I it just changes everything.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
It's a real perspective shift. And it's also so difficult too,
because I think when people haven't lost someone that they're
so close to, it's hard for them.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
To get it. It's just hard to get it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, my husband he lost a kind of close friend,
but someone he went to school with. But that's it.
He's never lost a parent, a grandparent, you know, never
lost so he hadn't no not that he hasn't lost
somebody like his contemporary.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And someone you're really like, really close, so it's been
connected to forever. But I still feel like I don't
know how you are. But I definitely like Kate is
around all the time, and she like sends me signs
and like I just feel her presence in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Isn't that a trip? Like when someone you are very
close with. I notice this with my dad the first
time when he died and I noticed, I thought, Oh,
that's it. He's dead. He's gone. I'll never see him,
speak to him, feel him again. I mourned that so hard,
and then at a certain point one day, I just
remember the wind blew yes, Oh my god, and you
(25:08):
just I just instantly just started crying because you knew
it was him, because I could feeling like I get
I'm having the children now too, because you can feel them,
and I in that moment sort of translated into it's
not a loss. It's now they're with you all the time.
You can talk to them anytime you want. I know,
(25:28):
like you have full access to.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You know, I like Kate is around more now than
ever when we were you know, like we spent we
were kids together and then we spent so many years
of our lives apart because I lived in La she
lived in Arizona, and then in New Jersey and we
had children, and you know, we would try to get
together and but I would see maybe a couple of
times a year. We'd talk on the phone almost every
(25:52):
day at least, and then sometimes once a week if
we get we're both busy. But now it's like, yeah,
she's with me all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
There's something so comforting about it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's really special and and yeah, and a constant reminder
that like, first of all, we don't know anything nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
We have no control over anything, and we know nothing
and we don't know how it all works. But I
do know that they're here with us.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah. Yeah, it's comforting. I feel like it's a better
way to look at things. Otherwise it's just kind of
lonely and sad and just sad about it.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But I was really sad the other night. I was
feeling really lonely.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
It's hard, you know, like being divorced and I'm living
in a new city. Really it's like I've only been
here since twenty twenty, which is I know, five years,
but it's been a weird five years.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, and a lot has happened.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And I lived in LA for twenty three before that.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And the other night, I was feeling really lonely and
I was kind of like waiting for some to call me,
and like I was just like bummed, and I was
listening to music and Kate's like favorite song came on
like out of nowhere, randomly, and it's not a song
that comes on very frequently, you know what I mean.
(27:14):
It's not like on my heavy rotation. It just doesn't happen.
And I just was like, I'm not alone I get
that you're here.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I love you. Oh my god, it's so comforting. I
know people Yeah, and people don't really. I mean, because
you're a spiritual person. I take you as a spirit person.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Spiritual person.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Do you believe in angels?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Of course? Of course, obviously there are people that don't
believe in angel that's crazy. I mean I talk to
them all the time, and I I send them to people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And you know, whenever any of my family is on
a flight, yes, yeah, playing with them, yes, And it's
such a great feeling because they're there to help you.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I have one believe in that. Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Do you think when we die, we our bodies stop, right,
and then our soul goes on? And then is that
the angel that I'm feeling?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think it's yeah. I mean I feel like I
actually don't know. I mean I feel like it's like
on an energetic level, on a molecular level, and I
don't know. I think that time doesn't I mean time
doesn't exist right, Like, actually time doesn't exist right.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Somebody made that up, right.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It gets into like quantum physics of it too, which
is insane and not something that I can really drap
my head around.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I did drop out of college to be on Freaks
and Geeks.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I dropped out of high school to be on TV.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
So I did drop I did drop out.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
So I can't I can't speak to the quantum physics
of it, but I'm interested in that. But I do
think there's just I think it becomes like some sort
of expanded energy field that like, yeah, that their presence.
It's a it's energetic and it's you know, shows up
and is able to show up and do things like
change your Spotify to play woman's work.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
But I don't shit it, but it really works. So
I know you talked about that you have like bad days,
you're feeling bad self limiting thoughts. Yeah, yeah, what I
heard this great thing actually last night from my daughter.
(29:30):
She was saying, if you talk badly, if you have
negative self talk, you have to stop yourself and say
three things that you love about yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So what are what are three things you could say
that you love about yourself?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Oh my gosh, you know what, I really I have
so much that I love about myself.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
That is amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I am like very generous in all of the ways
with people, like with my time, with money, with like
anything you need, like resources, connections, other friends, Like I
know a person who can help you out, Like you
better believe that, like you're gonna get that information. I'm
(30:14):
gonna like help if I can see a way in
which I can be a helper. I always am doing
it or giving someone something or like like literally like
oh you like this bacelet here, just take it like
I'm just like I'm just very much. Don't come up
to me on the street and ask me for my bracelets.
But but but I do. I do tend to be
(30:34):
I love that I'm I love my generosity. I love
that I'm in my time and mostly like my time,
like I I feel like I'm very generous with my
time to things that I care about, and.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I show up for people that I love.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Are you a hard worker? Yeah, I can tell.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
An insanely hard working. We're again Midwestern something yeah, instilled
in us from the I think the fields are something.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I started working professionally in high school. I worked at
Calvernia Pizza Kitchen in high school, like a restaurant job.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love that place will instill a work ethic like
nobody's business totally. But I was always a hustler.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I was like always hustling, like I still to this day,
I like kind of consider myself a hustler.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But I also have all of.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
These things that I want to show up for social
justice issues and you know.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
All acts of service. All you're doing acts of service.
It's all about your generosity.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So I love that. Okay, I love my nose. I
have a perfect nose.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Really do what you were born with.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
That it's natural. No nose job ever, guys, nothing nothing beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Thanks. I really really love my nose.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I was thinking, how beautiful your eyes are?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I do love my eyes, but my nose is really
my favorite of my physical attributes.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I really love my nose, and and I love I
love my well, I love my kids, but like about
myself like I love.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I love how. I love that I'm an open person.
I love how open I am. It makes me feel
less alone. And I love that if it can bring
other people some comfort, then that's such an incredible bonus.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
So I really love that too. So those are my
three things.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I love all of those things about you so so much.
You said you love your kids. You have two daughters.
I have three daughters.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
My ex husband was like, should I have the third
before we got divorced.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I was like, I know, man, damn yeah, threes, three's fun,
but two is great, two is great. One was real nice.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, I thought it was just gonna be one, one
and done. I kind of did because I was young too.
I mean, you were very young. How old were you
twenty twenty four? Twenty four? Oh okay, Michelle was twenty
four when she had met told it. I think I
was twenty. I had just turned twenty nine when I
gave birt I was twenty eight, like my whole pregnancy,
and then I had Bertie at twenty nine. But like,
(33:07):
having kids in your twenties is a lot when you're working, it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Is a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
It's a lot to have kids editing point at any point, but.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, being a working mom full time, it was really
hard taking that baby a set with you at six
a m.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
That's right, That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
So I was like, well, I don't know if that's
going to happen again, and I was on it.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I was on Cougartown.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
By the way. I love doing that. Thank you, I
really really I love that show, but that started.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I did the pilot when she was six months old,
and then started on her first birthday, so Bertie, So
those first few years of her life, I felt totally
overwhelmed and underwater, and thankfully had the greatest nanny of
all time, Ileana, who made my entire life possible and
(33:51):
made Bertie's life very enriched and loved and was able
to like schlep her down to Culver City to the
studio every day by Nina.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I call her my Nina. Yeah, she was the nanny
as well. She's my best friend, my mom, everything all
rolled into one. Oh, she raised my children.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, we were in a partner. Yeah, Eleanna and I
were partners, and and it really was. She's just she
was just such an incredibly important person in my life
and in my kids' lives, and uh but I didn't think.
I was like, I think I can just handle the one.
(34:30):
And then Bertie like turned four, and I was like,
but maybe, yeah, it takes it. I think, you know, no,
this is what I do. Because there's three of them.
I can't remember which is which.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Luca was four or five when I decided, well, Aiden,
all my kids were happy.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Accidents oh, well that's great.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, I wanted to have a second one and I
went that wasn't happening, and I went to acupuncture and
that didn't work. And then of course three months later
I was pregnant. Of course, so it did work. Like
it's still turns out something, yeah, yep. But what do
you think when it comes to raising these young women
and sending them out to the world on their own? Now,
what are some of your biggest fears? Oh?
Speaker 3 (35:12):
My god, obviously, well, I mean this is like so dark,
but my biggest fear is that they'll be sexually assaulted,
raped and murdered.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yes, I mean that is dark, but can happen.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And then my second, like my fear one A is
that they will be sexually assaulted, raped, or murdered by
someone they love. Because statistically speaking, as women, like, that's
a well that's a reality, and I know that's really tough.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No matter how strong we raise them to be.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Of course, but that's the thing, like, as you've lived
your full life, like I'm sure I have had friends
who i've then who have later then you know, revealed
to me that they were in an abusive relationship or
you know, it's not it's not like.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You just don't know, you just don't know. But I
that is like my biggest fear. That is just my
biggest fear, period, full stop and always has been. And
then I guess beyond that, I'm hopeful, and I think
that my ex husband Mark and I have raised them
(36:26):
in a way and continue to, by the way, raise
them in a way that they feel very secure and
safe with us so that they would tell they would
be able to come to us with anything in any
kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You know, it sounds like you and your ex husband
have a good relationship moving forward as far as its
co parenting. Yeah, we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We're trying. We did a lot of the we're always easy. Yeah, Yeah,
I did it too in there. And it's just so
much better when you get to the place where you
just accept it and you forgive. Yeah, and you move forward.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yes, And I think for us, our relationship now and
I mean, I'm sure yours in Peter's obviously is I
can't even do the math. But it's been a long
time Mark and I have known each other now, like
it'll be twenty years in June. You know, it's like
(37:25):
a huge chunk of my life like that this person
has been in and we have always been deeply committed
to the love that we have together for our kids,
because we do have love together for our children.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And you obviously have love for him because I made
your children. I do, I do, and you spend so
much time with them. Yes, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And you know, and he and I had sort of
like an evolution of our relationship and we worked in
therapy for a really long time before we actually separated
to try to just see what was possible and what
our relationship could look like. And so it's it's shifted
(38:12):
and evolved and it looks different and like, you know,
but I just want I mean what I want for him.
I know he wants for me, which is ultimately like
we want each other to be happy and fulfilled.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, well that's what we should all want for people
that we like love in any way at any time,
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Right, Yeah, absolutely So. On this podcast we talk about
the choices we make and where they lead us. What
would you say, looking at your life as a whole,
was the most impactful choice or decision that you've made
so far? The most impactful that's a big question.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I mean, it's huge because we make.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Thirty five thousand choices every day at least.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I mean, I think that we all have real sliding
doors moments, you know, And I always think I'm very
much like a could have gone either way, you never know,
like you could have picked door number two and still
I could. I could have picked door number two and
(39:18):
still could have ended up right here talking to you
through another set of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Maybe this was always meant to be, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
What I mean, Maybe I was this person you know
that I am in this version sitting here talking to you,
and maybe the journey would have looked different, you know.
I mean I had an abortion when I was fifteen,
and I think that, like I've obviously talked very publicly
and openly about it, but I think that my life
(39:46):
would have looked vastly different had I not been able
to make that decision safely and with support. And I
get I'm very I am very concerned to continue to
be very concerned.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
About the safety of.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Women and girls in our country, and because it is
you know, there are many reasons why women need access
to abortion care, but one of them is to be
able to control their futures and their lives. And I
was able to do that and I'm so grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah that's a big decision. Yeah, it was. It was
a big decision to have to make a child. Yeah,
basically a child. Yeah, Okay, I love that your podcast
is called doing your Best.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, Busy Phillips is doing your best?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
What that's all we can do. But what does doing
your best mean to you?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I mean it totally changes all the time, but doing
your best means that you, like genuinely are like, this
is what I'm capable of in this moment in time.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
This is my best. I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
And I try to like really show up with my
best for people, and sometimes I'm not.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Sometimes I don't.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It's not it doesn't work and I fail, but I
really do try. And sometimes we talk about on the podcast.
Sometimes I'm like, you know what I did my best
at this week? I got rid of the piles on
the stairs. Yeah, look at me, look at me. That
was what I was able to do this week. Or
I remembered to go pick up my dry cleaning this
(41:24):
week and that was a big deal.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Just acknowledging those little wins. It is important.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, And so like on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I mean it's sort of like almost like a gratitude
journal in a way too, because I'm like, you know what,
I did my best. I did my best at parenting
you know today with that situation. Didn't do my best yesterday,
But that's okay, Like there's always tomorrow, you know whatever,
right right?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, you said before, I know you're really close friends
with Michelle. Yeah, and I think she's wonderful Michelle Williams.
Do you believe in soulmates when it comes to your girlfriend? Oh? Yeah,
do you think it's like predestined? Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I do kind of.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I think Michelle and I were always supposed to meet.
We almost did, like several times too.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
But you met way back on Dawson's on Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, but even before that, like we then I remember
at the time when we finally like or when we
finally when we first met and like became like instantly
new that we were meant to be together for life.
We were like, wait, you were in you know, doing math.
I like you were in London staying in this hotel
and this month or this week and this month, and
(42:33):
was like, yeah, like we were both in this hotel,
like we must have seen you know, yeah, like stuff
like that, like did you see Past Lives? The movie
the Selene saw movie Past Lives?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think, so I don't remember anything. Okay, sounds familiar.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
But they talk about that idea. It's the Korean idea
of a mom. Imma, mom, you're asking me. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I think it's called mom. But where it's like, oh,
Michelle just texted.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Me see see weird See I love those moments.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I know me too. Well.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
This has been happening to me so much recently, like
in such an intense way where like I'll think about
somebody and then the text pops up. Two days ago,
I was talking about a vitamin that I started taking
because a girl that I used to go to soul
cycle with in Los Angeles like ten years ago told
me about it. And I have not spoken to this
girl in forever. And she texted two minutes later, well.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's the thing. You know, you're exactly where you're supposed
to be when you have those synchronoic cities.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
One hundred percent weight. We have to look up the
proper word for this, guys. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's the idea that.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Every person that you come in contact with you have
like past life history with.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
That's kind of nice.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
You should watch the movie again, I will you. I
in yan Inyan Indian Indian, right, it's in Onion, but
Indian Indian. Yeah, Indian Indian, and so it's like the
idea of Indian.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Right, I'm gonna look, I'm going to research.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You should and you should also just watch that movie
again if you did, because it was really good.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
You have a special bond though, with your past from
Dawson's Creek, like certain members on that you've still friends with,
like Michelle.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Well, actually we all have been sort of chatting, yeah, recently,
because as I mean, I'm sure you really to, like
James got a cancer, James Vanderbia got a cancer diagnosis,
and I think it really was shocking for everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
And come back together.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, and so we've all been kind of like checking
in and texting and reaching out and making sure everybody's
doing good and doing all right and where is everyone?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
And yeah, and Michelle and.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
I got together with Katie, which hadn't happened in a
long time, even though you know, just life like just happened.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yes, And I had reached.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Out to Josh after the fires because I knew that
he had lost his home anyway, like we had been
talking and.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, and reached out. I just, you know, Yeah, you
spend a lot of time with these people when you're young, young,
and that's very formulive those years. Yeah, but I feel
that way about the freaks and geeks cast too. I
just you know, I can go like literally like year
two years without seeing or talking to one of them,
(45:22):
and then I run into them or talk call Linda
or text her, and then it's just like it's not nothing,
not time. Yeah, exactly same as us. Yeah, it's like
your high literally guys, like your high school.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Friends somehow closer because yeah, thrust into these weird situations
exactly well before I let you go, Yes, Busy Phillips, Yes,
what was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Oh my gosh, Well I think my last I Choose
me moment, uh was a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I was like, this is the thing, Like, I'm like
a I told I'm like a person that shows up,
I do things.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
But I had I was supposed to go to.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
LA for like twenty four hours to perform in this
live show that was supposed to be. It's a fun
thing that I've done for years, this live show, and
I love it. But I had had just a really
really emotionally taxing like with kids stuff and personal life
stuff and probably periomenopause. I don't I don't know, you
(46:27):
know what I mean. Like, I was just like very
I was like emotional, and we were about to start
filming the talk show, so I would have had to
fly there. Yeah, And I had just had cricket for
spring break and had taken her to the UK, so
I was back in New York.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
I was jet lagged.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
I was going through all this other stuff with you
just I don't need to get into, but like, you know,
just emotional stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
And I called the guys and I was like, guys,
I can't come. I can't come to I'm gonna. I
need to choose myself and my mental health.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
I really felt like if I got on a plane
for six hours to go perform in two shows, one
at six pm and one at nine pm, and then
get back on a six am flight back to New
York and then film my first show two days later,
I would be a mess and I wouldn't be able
to do any of those things well. And there's an
(47:18):
older version of me that would have been like power
through it, suck it up, be it, tripper up. But
I was like, no, I'm just going to be honest
with my friends about this thing that I had committed
to previously when I thought I could do it, but
like situations had changed. There was like new information and
(47:39):
you know.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
They were disappointed and that was really hard for you.
But did you feel relief? Well?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I felt immediate relief.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But I want to say this, like the guys who
produce this show, it's this live like stage show that
I have done for ten years called The Thrilling Adventure Hour,
and they like released it as podcasts too, and they
do it with a bunch of other actors and so fun.
And the guys who write the entire thing are awesome,
but like, just full disclosure, neither one of them have children,
(48:07):
do you know what I mean? And so I sort
of was like kind of preemptively like, oh, they're not
going to get it, and they're not going to be
kind about it.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
They're going to just be mad at me. That was
like what I thought.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
And they wrote back with the nicest, loveliest like you're
mentally like you're the most important. You're your well being
is more important than our show. We'll figure it out.
Don't worry about it. Take care of yourself. They yeah,
and I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You guys really are my friends.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, it was really nice.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
That's a good when I hear that a lot, saying
notice things. Yes.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well, it's a hard thing for people like us to do, I.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Think, especially when you're a generous Yeah, your time and
you're everything, and I want to show up. Yeah, you know,
because that's who you are.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yes, But I don't. I tend to not I do
tend to not over extend. I will say that the
canceling last minute was really like, this was a thing
that I don't I'm not a person who does that.
I don't flake, but this was like a step beyond.
It wasn't a flake. It was like, if I do this,
I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, I've been there. Yeah, I think I've had the
nervous break day. But it's so good when you say
no to yes, it is Yeah, Well you didn't flake
on me today. I didn't flake on you. No, And
I'm so happy that our paths crossed. We had such
a good day to get Yeah, it was so nice.
I love chatting with you and I love your clothes. Look,
look you're wearing my vest. You're wearing me by Jenny Garth.
(49:35):
It's Me by Jenny Garth. There you go. What are
you wearing me?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Me by Jenny Garth.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna go pick up my gut now, Okay,
Host
Jennie Garth