July 18, 2024 • 33 mins
Jennie processes her grief and emotions over the passing of 90210 co-star and friend, Shannen Doherty. Jennie's friend and our in-house therapist, Adele House, joins Jennie to help her navigate moving through her feelings.
Grief Resources: Our House Grief Support Center, The Dinner Party, All There Is with Anderson Cooper (A podcast about grief)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everybody,
welcome to the I Choose Me Podcast. So this is
a very difficult time that we are all going through.
We are all experiencing this great loss of our friend
(00:22):
Shannon Doherty. Because I know that we're all feeling this sadness,
this happiness. Grief is just so unique to each one
of us, plays out differently for everybody, and I just
wanted to acknowledge this huge, huge loss. I'm gonna have
(00:47):
my best friend, Adele, our therapist, come in, and it
helped me to sort of process my feelings and talk
about grief with us in hopes that this will help
you guys, if you're feeling the same as I am,
which I'm pretty sure you are. Hi, Adele, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Of course, I have not seen you or talked to
you other than by text since we heard the news
about Shannon, and I'm honored and glad that you wanted
to include me in this conversation. And I'm I'm glad
you want to be of service to your nine O,
two and o family that's grieving, and from what I
(01:34):
can tell by the news cycle, it's more than just
your nine oh two and O family grieving.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, it's a big family. The whole world definitely feels
the loss. I think, you know, whether you are a
fan of the show or one of her other shows,
or if you were a fan of the way she
was addressing her battle publicly and helping a lot of
(02:00):
people through their own struggles. You know, there's a lot
of people that really looked up to Shannon, and I
was one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, yeah, it's been about five days, so maybe we
start with you just have you what how did you
find out?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was on a trip with my husband. We had
planned a get away to sort of be able to
spend time together, and I found out while we were away,
So that definitely sort of changed the tone of that
trip entirely. And since it happened while I was out
(02:46):
of town, it didn't feel real somehow. And there's no
way I would open my Instagram or do any kind
of looking because it's you know, just kind of everywhere
and it's just too much. My phone was blowing up
with like people sending their condolences and which you know,
(03:11):
of course that is so kind, but it just kept hitting, hitting, hitting,
And so when I got back to La. When we
got home, I just wanted to stay home, like I
just don't want to go anywhere right now. That kind
of feeling of just needing to like crawl in a
(03:32):
hole and process this without eyes.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, that makes sense. And you know you're describing exactly
what kind of happens when somebody learns that someone they
love and.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Care about dies.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's a shock, right, That's kind of the first thing
that happens, is, yeah, belief and shock.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well it's crazy because we all knew she was sick.
The whole world knew that, you know, And and I
don't know why, but I just thought she would get better.
I thought she would kick it. She's, you know, the
strongest woman around. And I just never thought that this
would happen. And I had listened to some of her
(04:17):
podcasts from the previous week, and I knew she was
kind of undergoing this new chapter in her battle with cancer,
more chemotherapy, and I could tell she was feeling nervous,
but I also saw glimmer of hope in her, and
that just reassured me that everything was going to be okay.
(04:39):
If she was hopeful, then I could be hopeful too.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what she was putting
out in the world, and I think everybody that was
rooting for her was paying close attention. But I think
we all felt like, oh, cancer is no match for her,
Like she just wanted.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
To live, and she made that very clear.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Over and over again, and so I was totally shocked
when I heard the news. She felt so alive the
last several weeks with her podcast and everything that I
just thought. It just was such a shock, And of
course I thought about you immediately. I was one of
the people that blew up your phone at seven am,
hoping I wasn't the first person.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You were, and you were the first person I didn't
see it. Actually, Dave was having his coffee in bed
and he I came out from the bathroom and he said,
I need to tell you something. And instantly when he
says that, I panic just instinctually, and I thought he
(05:41):
was going to say something about, you know, my dog
who's elderly, or something like from our family. And then
he told me that this happened, and I was like, like,
I literally felt like someone punched me in the stomach.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think I feel so protective of you that you know,
and I'm an early bird. When I saw it, I thought,
I got to get to Jenny and make sure she's protected.
And I'm so glad you were with Dave. I'm sure
it was dizzying to be out of the country.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, I was very felt, very weird. I don't know
how to explain it, and then just flying back into
La and kind of coming to terms that it was real.
It was really hard.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Have you spoken with any of your other nine oh
two one zero co stars.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Are you guys.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Supporting each other and reaching out and if you want
to share anything.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
About that, Yeah, I mean we've talked about it that
we have a group chat. Jason of course was the
first one to reach out to everybody and just you know,
say I love you guys, and this is insane and
no more, no more loss, Like this is crazy that
(07:07):
that I think that's one of the hardest parts for
me is that it's it's now two three. It's two
people from our original cast, you know, and of course
Joey Tada and Paul Wagner and Jessica Klein other people
have passed away also, But this just was like, you know,
(07:29):
when you have like a group shot and if you
can imagine that image of that person in the group
shot fading away, Yeah, and two like disappear Like it's
just I can't I can't really wrap my head around it.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, And I'm sure it brought all the feelings back
about Luke. I know that was an incredibly difficult loss
for you.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I was with you that day, as was Dave.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And watching that loss was Yeah, I'm sure brought it
all flooding back.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Definitely. I never I chose to never speak publicly very
much at all about Luke's passing. Didn't, you know, put
up a post or anything. I just I didn't know
how to handle that and I didn't feel compelled to
let my feelings out there. This one felt, I don't know,
(08:33):
felt different but the same. So yeah, I mean I
feel like when grief comes knocking at your door, death
comes knocking at your door causing grief, Like it's the
same feeling grief, just however you feel grief individually, it's
the same feeling. So yeah, it does take you right
(08:55):
back to that any previous pain or encounter you've had
with it, just like it was yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So it has familiar elements to it that any other
grief that you've gone through or any other loss that
you've had, you're right back there feeling that loss too.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Is that normal? Is that normal to have that same
feeling about different people?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Of course, because it is a very like you said
at the very beginning, it's so unique to each individual
and wherever you feel it in your body, right, and
whatever thoughts you have around losing somebody or something that
you love, whether it's a person, an animal, job, a partnership,
(09:45):
lives in your body in the same place.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So you're right back there.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And if you kind of kept it to yourself or
locked it away or didn't fully grieve, it's an open
wound again.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever fully grieved any loss
that I've had, So it's like opening up a nasty
box of feelings.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
And you know, a lot of grief experts think that
the best thing you can do with grief, as painful
and sorrowful as it is, is to feel it fully right,
And maybe the gift that Shannon's passing can give you,
especially because she's kind of known for this too, is
to really feel the sorrow and lean into it and
(10:35):
grieve it. Because I know you and I know you
lock things away and you only allow for as much
as you think you can allow. But I also know
as you've evolved and grown, I know you can allow more.
And maybe this is the time where you let some
of those other losses that are kind of locked away
(10:59):
or you know, trapped in your body, that you let
it go. You don't just cry for Shannon, but you
cry for your dad and Luke, and I'm you know,
thinking of other people, Lynn and many dogs that you've lost,
and you know you've had a lot of You've had
a lot of loss.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, I mean some people haven't experienced loss yet. We
all will. But like like a real loss like your
dad or your friend or your mom or something like
that kind of grief or a child, that kind of grief,
you cannot understand it even the slightest until you've been
(11:41):
through it. Right, Like my husband Dave's never lost anybody,
He's never experienced death. So in a way it's kind
of hard because he tries his best, of course, to
like come for me and be there for me, but
I don't think he fully grasps the depth of it
(12:03):
and just the way it works, like it'll just come
up out of nowhere. In the middle of a dinner bite,
like you never know when you're just gonna basically lose
it and be sad.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right. It ebbs and flows, It comes in waves. It
is not linear at all. It catches you by surprise,
you know, and you know you'll be giving Dave a
gift showing him what it looks like when it comes
for him.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Right, and your kids.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We always talk about modeling when we get together, you know,
and do this podcast, like what are you modeling for people?
But any way that you can sort of let the
sorrow in and lean into it, they say that that
also allows you to feel the greatest joy too, because
if you're feeling two sides of the same coin and
you're allowing for both, it can be a continuum or whatever,
(13:00):
or that you you're also giving yourself a gift of
feeling deeply on both sides of the continuum and you
can handle it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah. I have learned more about just letting feelings pass,
you know, and honoring them and reminding myself when I
am feeling any kind of certain way that it's just
a feeling and it will pass. And I you know,
I talk to my little self inside and I say
(13:35):
it's okay. You know I'm here for you. You got this,
You're gonna be okay. I know it hurts right now,
but it's going to get better. I know that. When
my dad passed away, people would say to me, time
will heal honey, time will fix it, and I was like,
(13:56):
f you. You know, time will never make this feel better. Yeah,
And it really made me mad when people would say that.
And I realize, of course now I don't even know
how many years later, twelve years later from my dad's passing,
that it does dissipate, like the emotions that raw feelings
(14:20):
of emotions that you go through right away, and that
I'm still going through, and I know so many people
are still going through. They do dissipate. And it's not
it's not that you're forgetting that person or you're like
moved on to something else, because it does live in
you forever. It's just that you have find found some
(14:43):
way to comfort yourself through it and accept it and
honor it and move forward with your life because that's
what you have to do.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I heard I heard a beautiful description the other day
in a podcast, and I wish I could give credit,
but I don't remember who said it, but that grief
is like a heavy stone in your pocket and.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You're very aware of it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
You feel that heavy stone and it weighs you down,
and you feel it every day. And as time goes
on and you get stronger, the stone gets lighter. Right,
So you don't feel it as often, it's not as
ever present, but it's always in your pocket. You never
forget about it. But your strength and courage and kind
(15:32):
of integration of the loss allows for the stone and
the heaviness and weight of it to get lighter.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I feel that. I know that from dealing with
it so many times. Yeah, you think in the moment
you're going to break, you know. And I know with Shannon,
I was shocked, and then I was pissed at myself
for being shocked.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I was like so mad, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I was bargaining and saying why her, Like why not me?
And I know I don't know anything actually, but there
were so many feelings. I was angry, angry at her circumstances,
at cancer, at the world for taking you know, her
(16:33):
away from her mom.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Her family and her dog. She loved Bowie so much.
Oh sorry, I don't want to cry.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And just the world.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Like all of our nine O two one oh family,
there's been this crazy division in some of the fans
that they were either team Kelly or they were team Brenda.
And I don't think that either Shannon or I ever
(17:11):
wanted that, So I you know, even though if you
were team Brenda or whatever, I know you're hurting just
the same everybody is hurting, and there's just you know,
it's a time when we can all come together and
process this all with each other. So that is my hope.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And maybe in that once and for all in that
you know, binary choice or that divisiveness, because you and
Shannon never wanted that, and people get so wrapped up
in TV shows and I understand, but to think that
it's it was so black and white, or that they
understand the story or the friendship between you and Shannon
and what worked and what was complicated and the love
(17:52):
that was there and the experiences that you and Shannon
had are nobody else's but your own. So you know,
I would just say, let's hope that everybody can kind
of release that once and for all. I wanted to
bring something up that you, I mean, you basically talked
about you cycled through the Elizabeth Koobler Ross stages of
(18:16):
grief in a matter of moments, right, you know that denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance,
and they come and go again like quickly over time,
and all of it is okay. Because when I heard
you say you were mad at yourself for I think
(18:36):
being angry, I just want to say to you two.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Things in grief.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
The most important thing that I can impart to you
and to people listening, everything is okay in grief, meaning
whatever it looks like for you, whatever it looks like
for anybody that's listening, all is okay. Shutting down irritability, anger,
if you feel guilty, that's a really common thing, and
(19:04):
that you have to be the most important thing is
you have to be gentle on yourself. We do so
much self recrimination, we do so much beating ourselves up,
and so that's the second thing, is gentle on yourself
except all and also not just for you, but anybody
else that's grieving, how they do it is also okay.
(19:25):
So you give space for yourself and others, and gentleness
and grace.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
For yourself and.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Others, because all is okay during grief. Any kind of behavior,
acting out, shutting down.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that's important. I hope everybody
really hears that, that you're grieving, Like, even if you
weren't friends with Shannon, or you know, weren't in my
position or any of our positions, you her and it's
(20:03):
a loss for anybody who loved any part of her.
So I hope that people really hear that and are
gentle on themselves and honor their grief, because, like you're saying,
that's the only way to get through it. You can't
go around it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, when talking about Shannon, like, what do you think, so,
I know you've been thinking about her a lot. What
do you think you'll remember most about her?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I will remember the respect that I have for her,
always had for her, in her willingness to voice her
opinions on things, stand up for people that needed to
be stood up for that couldn't do them do it themselves.
(20:51):
I will admire that's so her bravery.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And she was.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
One of the most generous people I know. She was
really kind and generous and strong, and sometimes her strength
got in her way and didn't look the way other
(21:22):
people wanted it to look. But she didn't care she
was strong anyway, because I think she had to be.
I know, we have very similar upbringings and stories about
our dads and are just deep, deep connections with our fathers.
(21:43):
And then how her dad and my dad both got
sick when we were young and we did everything in
our power to keep them alive as long as possible,
and that was a lot of pressure and wait to
put on our shoulders at you know, as teenagers basically yeah,
(22:07):
and so we both shared that, I want to say
burden because it was very difficult, and I was thinking, like,
you know, Shannon was a fighter. She was always a fighter,
though it wasn't just because of one thing or or
(22:29):
things that weren't significant. She fought four things that mattered
to her and people that mattered to her. And I
loved laughing with Shannon, like we could have a good
session of just like uncontrollable laughing. And she was funny.
And I will probably miss the most just hearing her
(22:53):
say my name because she she always said Ginny it
like from the South, Yeah, And I never corrected her.
It's just the way she said it, and I loved it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Do you have a favorite memory or story with her,
like one of your favorite funny times.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh my god, we could get really mischievous together. Her
I very very strong independent girls and women. I loved
when we were being mischievous or honery or just a
little devilish, like, you know, not to the point of
(23:36):
bad things happening, but just for a little fun. And
one of the last like main memories I have is
going several years back now, was going to Vegas to
see Ian, our friend Ian in Chippendale's right. So we
flew together to see him, and we supported him, and
(24:00):
we just laughed so hard, and she thought it was
so funny when they pulled me up on stage and
you know, did a public lap dance. So we had
a really great time on that trip. Yeah, And I
also keep like remembering the last word that she said
(24:24):
to me. It was just an example of even though
our relationship was complicated at times, or was convoluted at
times by outside forces that just sort of crept in
for us both, we still loved each other. And it
(24:44):
was after our last time together at maybe nineties gone. Anyway,
she had to get right back to la and she
was taking her i think her friend's private plane, and
she had offered everybody that need to get back to
La or even Jason, who had to go to Nashville,
get on the plane and we can all go together.
(25:05):
And no one asked me, and I was feeling a
little like ouch just from being not asked, or I
don't know why. I didn't even have to go back
to LA, I had to go to the opposite direction
to New York. But she came up to me right
before they left, and she was like, we're going on
this plane. You're welcome to come with us, Jinny, and
(25:31):
I can see her saying it, and that just keeps
playing over and over in my mind.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Her generosity. I hear that a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Something that's so remarkable to me is the way you
talk about her and the way you describe her. And
I met her but way back in the day when
you were doing one two one O, Like I was
there on set with you guys, but I hadn't seen
her in all the decades ensuing decades. But the way
you talk about her and describe her is so similar
(26:03):
to who you are in so many ways, fighter, strong,
standing up for people, mischievous and funny, like there are
so many similarities.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
And the way that you grew up with your dad's.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And I can see why you bonded, but it just
hit me for the first time in all these decades,
how actually similar you are.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That's true, it really is. We're both strong, independent, not
necessarily by our own decisions. Yeah, and are both aries,
you know, and that's a whole thing in itself.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
But yeah, I don't think anybody ever realized how similar
we actually were. And I think that people that just
met Shannon, you know, quickly or you know, they didn't
get to know her the way that I had the
privilege of getting to know her and the rest of
the cast to get to know her was to love her. Yeah, definitely,
(27:17):
it's been a tough week. I know that it'll feel
better over time. I encourage everybody to believe me on that.
It's just also really hard when you know, and this
was with Luke too, Like when someone famous dies, you're
there's just so many reminders, visual reminders, whether it's on
(27:42):
your feed or on the news, or on your for
you page or old cast photos like the you know,
when it's really really hard to sign cast photos and
see Luke not there, and now to have to sign
(28:03):
those photos without Shannon there, it's just like inconceivable. That's
the part that's like I don't want to believe it.
Like and I there are times when I still refuse
to believe that Luke is gone.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well, I think he's here right now in that light
that's shining behind you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it's weird. There's a light shining right on my
head like a ray.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I know he's with you a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
He is with me a lot. And you know, he
was the first person I thought of when I heard
the news, and I thought how happy he was going
to be to be.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
With her again.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Like whatever your beliefs are about heaven and hell and
transitioning or spirits all the things, like whatever it is
for me personally, I feel the spirits of the people
that I love the most if they die or crossover
or whatever you want to call it, I feel them
(29:05):
so much. And I turned to Luke all the time
for help, you know, like in dealing with certain things
or making decisions. I asked him, and I just I
get pretty strong answers from him because he was very
opinionated on the things that I had going on in
(29:30):
my life. But I just know he it's gonna sound
very weird, but he definitely was there to catch her,
and I knew he would be, but I know he was.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yeah, And he was like that for you in your
life too.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He was somebody that you turned to and you know,
took his consult and wanted his opinion on things, and
he had no problem giving them to And so I
think it's a beautiful example that you're sharing that you
still get that even though he's not here physically anymore,
you absolutely still get that.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I didn't believe it. I didn't believe it until
I believed it, like.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I want.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
For a long time, I called myself agnostic, like I
didn't believe in anything. I didn't know, I didn't have
any faith, and I was okay with that. I survived
a long time without it. And now they've gotten older,
you know, you look at things like that, and I
just started believing having faith in that. I call them
(30:42):
my angels, my spirits, my loved ones that I have
passed away. I still feel them with me and I
can literally this is the weirdest thing too, Like in
a way, when Luke was alive or Shannon was alive,
(31:02):
I felt like that relationship was diluted because it was
shared by so many. I think I sometimes felt like
I didn't have as much of their attention or time
or as close a relationship as I wanted. But I
found with Luke and with my Dad that I have
(31:23):
them all the time now, Like I'm closer Luke than
I ever was, and I'm closer to my Dad than
I ever was, because they're always with me and I
can always turn to them and ask them. And I
hope that people can can feel that way.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
With Shannon, that's really hopeful.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I want to say something to you and to everyone
who's listening, which is grief isn't just one thing. It
is a process, okay, and again, let it come and
go as it does. And if you know you or
anybody that's listening needs extra support, let's make sure to
(32:07):
leave some resources.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yes, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
We'll leave resources in the show notes. And well, if
anybody needs help getting through this or dealing with this
grief or any grief, reach out to a professional, because
it really does sort of smooth the rough edges of
the whole experience, and it gives you, like some outside
(32:34):
perspective and some insight that you don't have when you're
feeling all these intense feelings so I hope that people
will check out those resources that we're going to leave
for you in the show notes. And I guess you
know it is what it is like. You can't change it,
(32:56):
even though you want to. You have to accept it
and move forward.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, don't force it. I'm so glad you wanted to
be of service because this was a hard thing to do.
I'm glad you wanted to do it for fans of
the show, other people who are grieving. I'm really touched
that you asked me to.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Do this with you always, thank you. I love you
so much. Yeah, thanks, thanks for doing.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
This, Thank you, and thanks everybody for being here with
me today. And I will be back soon. Bye bye.
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everybody,
welcome to the I Choose Me Podcast. So this is
a very difficult time that we are all going through.
We are all experiencing this great loss of our friend
(00:22):
Shannon Doherty. Because I know that we're all feeling this sadness,
this happiness. Grief is just so unique to each one
of us, plays out differently for everybody, and I just
wanted to acknowledge this huge, huge loss. I'm gonna have
(00:47):
my best friend, Adele, our therapist, come in, and it
helped me to sort of process my feelings and talk
about grief with us in hopes that this will help
you guys, if you're feeling the same as I am,
which I'm pretty sure you are. Hi, Adele, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Of course, I have not seen you or talked to
you other than by text since we heard the news
about Shannon, and I'm honored and glad that you wanted
to include me in this conversation. And I'm I'm glad
you want to be of service to your nine O,
two and o family that's grieving, and from what I
(01:34):
can tell by the news cycle, it's more than just
your nine oh two and O family grieving.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, it's a big family. The whole world definitely feels
the loss. I think, you know, whether you are a
fan of the show or one of her other shows,
or if you were a fan of the way she
was addressing her battle publicly and helping a lot of
(02:00):
people through their own struggles. You know, there's a lot
of people that really looked up to Shannon, and I
was one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, yeah, it's been about five days, so maybe we
start with you just have you what how did you
find out?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was on a trip with my husband. We had
planned a get away to sort of be able to
spend time together, and I found out while we were away,
So that definitely sort of changed the tone of that
trip entirely. And since it happened while I was out
(02:46):
of town, it didn't feel real somehow. And there's no
way I would open my Instagram or do any kind
of looking because it's you know, just kind of everywhere
and it's just too much. My phone was blowing up
with like people sending their condolences and which you know,
(03:11):
of course that is so kind, but it just kept hitting, hitting, hitting,
And so when I got back to La. When we
got home, I just wanted to stay home, like I
just don't want to go anywhere right now. That kind
of feeling of just needing to like crawl in a
(03:32):
hole and process this without eyes.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, that makes sense. And you know you're describing exactly
what kind of happens when somebody learns that someone they
love and.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Care about dies.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's a shock, right, That's kind of the first thing
that happens, is, yeah, belief and shock.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well it's crazy because we all knew she was sick.
The whole world knew that, you know, And and I
don't know why, but I just thought she would get better.
I thought she would kick it. She's, you know, the
strongest woman around. And I just never thought that this
would happen. And I had listened to some of her
(04:17):
podcasts from the previous week, and I knew she was
kind of undergoing this new chapter in her battle with cancer,
more chemotherapy, and I could tell she was feeling nervous,
but I also saw glimmer of hope in her, and
that just reassured me that everything was going to be okay.
(04:39):
If she was hopeful, then I could be hopeful too.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what she was putting
out in the world, and I think everybody that was
rooting for her was paying close attention. But I think
we all felt like, oh, cancer is no match for her,
Like she just wanted.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
To live, and she made that very clear.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Over and over again, and so I was totally shocked
when I heard the news. She felt so alive the
last several weeks with her podcast and everything that I
just thought. It just was such a shock, And of
course I thought about you immediately. I was one of
the people that blew up your phone at seven am,
hoping I wasn't the first person.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You were, and you were the first person I didn't
see it. Actually, Dave was having his coffee in bed
and he I came out from the bathroom and he said,
I need to tell you something. And instantly when he
says that, I panic just instinctually, and I thought he
(05:41):
was going to say something about, you know, my dog
who's elderly, or something like from our family. And then
he told me that this happened, and I was like, like,
I literally felt like someone punched me in the stomach.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think I feel so protective of you that you know,
and I'm an early bird. When I saw it, I thought,
I got to get to Jenny and make sure she's protected.
And I'm so glad you were with Dave. I'm sure
it was dizzying to be out of the country.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, I was very felt, very weird. I don't know
how to explain it, and then just flying back into
La and kind of coming to terms that it was real.
It was really hard.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Have you spoken with any of your other nine oh
two one zero co stars.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Are you guys.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Supporting each other and reaching out and if you want
to share anything.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
About that, Yeah, I mean we've talked about it that
we have a group chat. Jason of course was the
first one to reach out to everybody and just you know,
say I love you guys, and this is insane and
no more, no more loss, Like this is crazy that
(07:07):
that I think that's one of the hardest parts for
me is that it's it's now two three. It's two
people from our original cast, you know, and of course
Joey Tada and Paul Wagner and Jessica Klein other people
have passed away also, But this just was like, you know,
(07:29):
when you have like a group shot and if you
can imagine that image of that person in the group
shot fading away, Yeah, and two like disappear Like it's
just I can't I can't really wrap my head around it.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, And I'm sure it brought all the feelings back
about Luke. I know that was an incredibly difficult loss
for you.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I was with you that day, as was Dave.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And watching that loss was Yeah, I'm sure brought it
all flooding back.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Definitely. I never I chose to never speak publicly very
much at all about Luke's passing. Didn't, you know, put
up a post or anything. I just I didn't know
how to handle that and I didn't feel compelled to
let my feelings out there. This one felt, I don't know,
(08:33):
felt different but the same. So yeah, I mean I
feel like when grief comes knocking at your door, death
comes knocking at your door causing grief, Like it's the
same feeling grief, just however you feel grief individually, it's
the same feeling. So yeah, it does take you right
(08:55):
back to that any previous pain or encounter you've had
with it, just like it was yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So it has familiar elements to it that any other
grief that you've gone through or any other loss that
you've had, you're right back there feeling that loss too.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Is that normal? Is that normal to have that same
feeling about different people?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Of course, because it is a very like you said
at the very beginning, it's so unique to each individual
and wherever you feel it in your body, right, and
whatever thoughts you have around losing somebody or something that
you love, whether it's a person, an animal, job, a partnership,
(09:45):
lives in your body in the same place.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So you're right back there.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And if you kind of kept it to yourself or
locked it away or didn't fully grieve, it's an open
wound again.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever fully grieved any loss
that I've had, So it's like opening up a nasty
box of feelings.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
And you know, a lot of grief experts think that
the best thing you can do with grief, as painful
and sorrowful as it is, is to feel it fully right,
And maybe the gift that Shannon's passing can give you,
especially because she's kind of known for this too, is
to really feel the sorrow and lean into it and
(10:35):
grieve it. Because I know you and I know you
lock things away and you only allow for as much
as you think you can allow. But I also know
as you've evolved and grown, I know you can allow more.
And maybe this is the time where you let some
of those other losses that are kind of locked away
(10:59):
or you know, trapped in your body, that you let
it go. You don't just cry for Shannon, but you
cry for your dad and Luke, and I'm you know,
thinking of other people, Lynn and many dogs that you've lost,
and you know you've had a lot of You've had
a lot of loss.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, I mean some people haven't experienced loss yet. We
all will. But like like a real loss like your
dad or your friend or your mom or something like
that kind of grief or a child, that kind of grief,
you cannot understand it even the slightest until you've been
(11:41):
through it. Right, Like my husband Dave's never lost anybody,
He's never experienced death. So in a way it's kind
of hard because he tries his best, of course, to
like come for me and be there for me, but
I don't think he fully grasps the depth of it
(12:03):
and just the way it works, like it'll just come
up out of nowhere. In the middle of a dinner bite,
like you never know when you're just gonna basically lose
it and be sad.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right. It ebbs and flows, It comes in waves. It
is not linear at all. It catches you by surprise,
you know, and you know you'll be giving Dave a
gift showing him what it looks like when it comes
for him.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Right, and your kids.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We always talk about modeling when we get together, you know,
and do this podcast, like what are you modeling for people?
But any way that you can sort of let the
sorrow in and lean into it, they say that that
also allows you to feel the greatest joy too, because
if you're feeling two sides of the same coin and
you're allowing for both, it can be a continuum or whatever,
(13:00):
or that you you're also giving yourself a gift of
feeling deeply on both sides of the continuum and you
can handle it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah. I have learned more about just letting feelings pass,
you know, and honoring them and reminding myself when I
am feeling any kind of certain way that it's just
a feeling and it will pass. And I you know,
I talk to my little self inside and I say
(13:35):
it's okay. You know I'm here for you. You got this,
You're gonna be okay. I know it hurts right now,
but it's going to get better. I know that. When
my dad passed away, people would say to me, time
will heal honey, time will fix it, and I was like,
(13:56):
f you. You know, time will never make this feel better. Yeah,
And it really made me mad when people would say that.
And I realize, of course now I don't even know
how many years later, twelve years later from my dad's passing,
that it does dissipate, like the emotions that raw feelings
(14:20):
of emotions that you go through right away, and that
I'm still going through, and I know so many people
are still going through. They do dissipate. And it's not
it's not that you're forgetting that person or you're like
moved on to something else, because it does live in
you forever. It's just that you have find found some
(14:43):
way to comfort yourself through it and accept it and
honor it and move forward with your life because that's
what you have to do.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I heard I heard a beautiful description the other day
in a podcast, and I wish I could give credit,
but I don't remember who said it, but that grief
is like a heavy stone in your pocket and.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You're very aware of it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
You feel that heavy stone and it weighs you down,
and you feel it every day. And as time goes
on and you get stronger, the stone gets lighter. Right,
So you don't feel it as often, it's not as
ever present, but it's always in your pocket. You never
forget about it. But your strength and courage and kind
(15:32):
of integration of the loss allows for the stone and
the heaviness and weight of it to get lighter.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I feel that. I know that from dealing with
it so many times. Yeah, you think in the moment
you're going to break, you know. And I know with Shannon,
I was shocked, and then I was pissed at myself
for being shocked.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I was like so mad, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I was bargaining and saying why her, Like why not me?
And I know I don't know anything actually, but there
were so many feelings. I was angry, angry at her circumstances,
at cancer, at the world for taking you know, her
(16:33):
away from her mom.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Her family and her dog. She loved Bowie so much.
Oh sorry, I don't want to cry.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And just the world.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Like all of our nine O two one oh family,
there's been this crazy division in some of the fans
that they were either team Kelly or they were team Brenda.
And I don't think that either Shannon or I ever
(17:11):
wanted that, So I you know, even though if you
were team Brenda or whatever, I know you're hurting just
the same everybody is hurting, and there's just you know,
it's a time when we can all come together and
process this all with each other. So that is my hope.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And maybe in that once and for all in that
you know, binary choice or that divisiveness, because you and
Shannon never wanted that, and people get so wrapped up
in TV shows and I understand, but to think that
it's it was so black and white, or that they
understand the story or the friendship between you and Shannon
and what worked and what was complicated and the love
(17:52):
that was there and the experiences that you and Shannon
had are nobody else's but your own. So you know,
I would just say, let's hope that everybody can kind
of release that once and for all. I wanted to
bring something up that you, I mean, you basically talked
about you cycled through the Elizabeth Koobler Ross stages of
(18:16):
grief in a matter of moments, right, you know that denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance,
and they come and go again like quickly over time,
and all of it is okay. Because when I heard
you say you were mad at yourself for I think
(18:36):
being angry, I just want to say to you two.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Things in grief.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
The most important thing that I can impart to you
and to people listening, everything is okay in grief, meaning
whatever it looks like for you, whatever it looks like
for anybody that's listening, all is okay. Shutting down irritability, anger,
if you feel guilty, that's a really common thing, and
(19:04):
that you have to be the most important thing is
you have to be gentle on yourself. We do so
much self recrimination, we do so much beating ourselves up,
and so that's the second thing, is gentle on yourself
except all and also not just for you, but anybody
else that's grieving, how they do it is also okay.
(19:25):
So you give space for yourself and others, and gentleness
and grace.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
For yourself and.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Others, because all is okay during grief. Any kind of behavior,
acting out, shutting down.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that's important. I hope everybody
really hears that, that you're grieving, Like, even if you
weren't friends with Shannon, or you know, weren't in my
position or any of our positions, you her and it's
(20:03):
a loss for anybody who loved any part of her.
So I hope that people really hear that and are
gentle on themselves and honor their grief, because, like you're saying,
that's the only way to get through it. You can't
go around it.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, when talking about Shannon, like, what do you think, so,
I know you've been thinking about her a lot. What
do you think you'll remember most about her?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I will remember the respect that I have for her,
always had for her, in her willingness to voice her
opinions on things, stand up for people that needed to
be stood up for that couldn't do them do it themselves.
(20:51):
I will admire that's so her bravery.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And she was.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
One of the most generous people I know. She was
really kind and generous and strong, and sometimes her strength
got in her way and didn't look the way other
(21:22):
people wanted it to look. But she didn't care she
was strong anyway, because I think she had to be.
I know, we have very similar upbringings and stories about
our dads and are just deep, deep connections with our fathers.
(21:43):
And then how her dad and my dad both got
sick when we were young and we did everything in
our power to keep them alive as long as possible,
and that was a lot of pressure and wait to
put on our shoulders at you know, as teenagers basically yeah,
(22:07):
and so we both shared that, I want to say
burden because it was very difficult, and I was thinking, like,
you know, Shannon was a fighter. She was always a fighter,
though it wasn't just because of one thing or or
(22:29):
things that weren't significant. She fought four things that mattered
to her and people that mattered to her. And I
loved laughing with Shannon, like we could have a good
session of just like uncontrollable laughing. And she was funny.
And I will probably miss the most just hearing her
(22:53):
say my name because she she always said Ginny it
like from the South, Yeah, And I never corrected her.
It's just the way she said it, and I loved it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Do you have a favorite memory or story with her,
like one of your favorite funny times.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh my god, we could get really mischievous together. Her
I very very strong independent girls and women. I loved
when we were being mischievous or honery or just a
little devilish, like, you know, not to the point of
(23:36):
bad things happening, but just for a little fun. And
one of the last like main memories I have is
going several years back now, was going to Vegas to
see Ian, our friend Ian in Chippendale's right. So we
flew together to see him, and we supported him, and
(24:00):
we just laughed so hard, and she thought it was
so funny when they pulled me up on stage and
you know, did a public lap dance. So we had
a really great time on that trip. Yeah, And I
also keep like remembering the last word that she said
(24:24):
to me. It was just an example of even though
our relationship was complicated at times, or was convoluted at
times by outside forces that just sort of crept in
for us both, we still loved each other. And it
(24:44):
was after our last time together at maybe nineties gone. Anyway,
she had to get right back to la and she
was taking her i think her friend's private plane, and
she had offered everybody that need to get back to
La or even Jason, who had to go to Nashville,
get on the plane and we can all go together.
(25:05):
And no one asked me, and I was feeling a
little like ouch just from being not asked, or I
don't know why. I didn't even have to go back
to LA, I had to go to the opposite direction
to New York. But she came up to me right
before they left, and she was like, we're going on
this plane. You're welcome to come with us, Jinny, and
(25:31):
I can see her saying it, and that just keeps
playing over and over in my mind.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Her generosity. I hear that a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Something that's so remarkable to me is the way you
talk about her and the way you describe her. And
I met her but way back in the day when
you were doing one two one O, Like I was
there on set with you guys, but I hadn't seen
her in all the decades ensuing decades. But the way
you talk about her and describe her is so similar
(26:03):
to who you are in so many ways, fighter, strong,
standing up for people, mischievous and funny, like there are
so many similarities.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
And the way that you grew up with your dad's.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And I can see why you bonded, but it just
hit me for the first time in all these decades,
how actually similar you are.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That's true, it really is. We're both strong, independent, not
necessarily by our own decisions. Yeah, and are both aries,
you know, and that's a whole thing in itself.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
But yeah, I don't think anybody ever realized how similar
we actually were. And I think that people that just
met Shannon, you know, quickly or you know, they didn't
get to know her the way that I had the
privilege of getting to know her and the rest of
the cast to get to know her was to love her. Yeah, definitely,
(27:17):
it's been a tough week. I know that it'll feel
better over time. I encourage everybody to believe me on that.
It's just also really hard when you know, and this
was with Luke too, Like when someone famous dies, you're
there's just so many reminders, visual reminders, whether it's on
(27:42):
your feed or on the news, or on your for
you page or old cast photos like the you know,
when it's really really hard to sign cast photos and
see Luke not there, and now to have to sign
(28:03):
those photos without Shannon there, it's just like inconceivable. That's
the part that's like I don't want to believe it.
Like and I there are times when I still refuse
to believe that Luke is gone.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well, I think he's here right now in that light
that's shining behind you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it's weird. There's a light shining right on my
head like a ray.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I know he's with you a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
He is with me a lot. And you know, he
was the first person I thought of when I heard
the news, and I thought how happy he was going
to be to be.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
With her again.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Like whatever your beliefs are about heaven and hell and
transitioning or spirits all the things, like whatever it is
for me personally, I feel the spirits of the people
that I love the most if they die or crossover
or whatever you want to call it, I feel them
(29:05):
so much. And I turned to Luke all the time
for help, you know, like in dealing with certain things
or making decisions. I asked him, and I just I
get pretty strong answers from him because he was very
opinionated on the things that I had going on in
(29:30):
my life. But I just know he it's gonna sound
very weird, but he definitely was there to catch her,
and I knew he would be, but I know he was.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yeah, And he was like that for you in your
life too.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He was somebody that you turned to and you know,
took his consult and wanted his opinion on things, and
he had no problem giving them to And so I
think it's a beautiful example that you're sharing that you
still get that even though he's not here physically anymore,
you absolutely still get that.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I didn't believe it. I didn't believe it until
I believed it, like.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I want.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
For a long time, I called myself agnostic, like I
didn't believe in anything. I didn't know, I didn't have
any faith, and I was okay with that. I survived
a long time without it. And now they've gotten older,
you know, you look at things like that, and I
just started believing having faith in that. I call them
(30:42):
my angels, my spirits, my loved ones that I have
passed away. I still feel them with me and I
can literally this is the weirdest thing too, Like in
a way, when Luke was alive or Shannon was alive,
(31:02):
I felt like that relationship was diluted because it was
shared by so many. I think I sometimes felt like
I didn't have as much of their attention or time
or as close a relationship as I wanted. But I
found with Luke and with my Dad that I have
(31:23):
them all the time now, Like I'm closer Luke than
I ever was, and I'm closer to my Dad than
I ever was, because they're always with me and I
can always turn to them and ask them. And I
hope that people can can feel that way.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
With Shannon, that's really hopeful.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I want to say something to you and to everyone
who's listening, which is grief isn't just one thing. It
is a process, okay, and again, let it come and
go as it does. And if you know you or
anybody that's listening needs extra support, let's make sure to
(32:07):
leave some resources.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yes, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
We'll leave resources in the show notes. And well, if
anybody needs help getting through this or dealing with this
grief or any grief, reach out to a professional, because
it really does sort of smooth the rough edges of
the whole experience, and it gives you, like some outside
(32:34):
perspective and some insight that you don't have when you're
feeling all these intense feelings so I hope that people
will check out those resources that we're going to leave
for you in the show notes. And I guess you
know it is what it is like. You can't change it,
(32:56):
even though you want to. You have to accept it
and move forward.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, don't force it. I'm so glad you wanted to
be of service because this was a hard thing to do.
I'm glad you wanted to do it for fans of
the show, other people who are grieving. I'm really touched
that you asked me to.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Do this with you always, thank you. I love you
so much. Yeah, thanks, thanks for doing.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
This, Thank you, and thanks everybody for being here with
me today. And I will be back soon. Bye bye.
Host
Jennie Garth
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