February 18, 2025 • 50 mins
It's Fox Sports Radio's official fantasy football podcast! Dan Beyer and Mike Harmon take a look back on the NFL season, reviewing some of the biggest storylines from around the sport while also looking ahead to the 2025 season! Are the Lions really poised for a step back? Where might Myles Garrett end up if he's traded? All that and more on a new I Want Your Flex!
Hosts: Dan Beyer, Mike Harmon
Producer: Ian Roddy
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
And you want experience during your football season, well, buckle up,
sweet cheeks. We've got all the experience in the world.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
This is I want your flex.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
With Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Mike and Dan break down everything you need to set
your lineups, from position rankings to starts and sits. The
guys help you make those hard decisions. And now let's
get your flexod here's Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
The off season is officially here. Hit Mike up at
Swollen Dome, find him on Blue Sky. At Mike Harmon,
you can find me Dan Bayer at Dan Byer on
Fox on X and at Dan Byer on Blue Sky.
And Ian Roddy is our executive producer. It's Ian Desh
Roddy and Blue Sky and Ian Roddy underscore on X.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, that's all right me boom, I'm getting it down,
pat Ian. Just as the season is winding down for
us here on you.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Call it a three pointer, you would have been the
first guy to hit one. Oh, I'm sorry. Did I
take a shot at NBA All Star Weekend? And whenever
I watched it it was fine.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It is a funky spot that we're in right now
because the NBA is off, the NFL is waiting to
ride into combine stuff, the coaching carousel is pretty much stopped.
So there's some stuff that's going on, but it doesn't
necessarily grab the headlines as we normally would for any
(01:32):
other week of the year. It's kind of a sneaky
quiet spot for the NFL before they really ramp up
over these next couple of weeks, and it allows us
here to really take a look back a little bit
at what the previous season has and had transpired and
what could transpire into twenty twenty five. And last week
(01:53):
we talked a lot about the Super Bowl Chiefs and
Eagles and where that is, but there's also thirty other
teams that have been waiting to look ahead or even
still try to figure out what went wrong, Mike, And
that's kind of where as we enter the twenty twenty
five season, in the new league year coming up in
not less than a month, there are still some things
from twenty twenty four that I look back on, and
(02:14):
I'm just going to start with the Detroit Lions. For
a team that had such an amazing run in the
regular season, for it to happen to end so suddenly
and then have the departures that we thought that they
would have with Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn now being
head coaches elsewhere. I look back at the Lions, not
(02:35):
to start on a negative note for them, but I am.
I wonder if now that last season, meaning twenty twenty three,
was the peak season as we look ahead the next year,
I wonder if this was the best opportunity for the
Lions to get it done. And now I have questions
for them going into twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah. I mean, part of it is the in Campbell
we trust. All right, here's our philosophy, here's how we
do things. That's all fine and good. Seven assistant coaches,
seven yes, and your two coordinators. And offensively, Ben Johnson
got too cute time and again. For me. We talked
about it all year long. Some of it hubris of
(03:14):
the all right, I'm just gonna show you because I
know we're better than you. You know, let's let's run
a play for pinay Sewell in a first quarter possession
against the Bears, right, things like that that Now that
he's the coach of the Bears, I hope I'll hate
it just the same, because eventually it does come back
to bite you in the ass. The football gods are
a very thickle bunch lowercase G of course, but like
(03:37):
the let's do the wide receiver pass. No, we're getting
back into a football game, let's do that. So philosophically,
how much of that stuff stays right in terms of
how Ben Johnson was so eclectic and creative in his
mixing and matching, you know, kind of like painting and
throwing stuff at an easel and you know, all right,
(03:59):
let's look at at what that print comes out at. Nah,
all right, what art movement? Can we call it? Slap
a tag on it. Let's see what we can do.
I don't know that it works the same way. Is
Jared Goff the same quarterback? Now we got a lot
of talent, there's no question about it. But to think
that the machine just rolls on so easily. Not that
(04:20):
Ben Jonson suddenly gonna win seven more games with the Bears,
but you would think that they'll be at least back
to their twenty twenty three form. Right, they were a
seven win team right in Minnesota. Don't know what their
quarterback situation is as we sit here and record this
you know, the Monday before franchise tags and everything go down.
(04:41):
But even a regression, they're still a pretty good team.
And Green Bays got the guts to be a good team.
And if they don't drop so many passes, and I
know it's a lot of ifs, but particularly in that case,
if they secure the football, Jordan loves that much better
and that team is so much better, right, balance with
what they got from Josh Jacobs and all of a sudden, well,
(05:03):
now you're fighting all three teams in the division. You
got the gift this year that the Bears weren't any good.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, you're absolutely right. And to your point, if Chicago
does win at least seven games, combine that with what
you Elsa said about Green Bay and Minnesota, and then
I'm going to lay this Anya, here's Detroit's road games
next year. You ready for this?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
All right?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
We know the division? Those three teams Washington, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Baltimore,
Kansas City and the Los Angeles Rams.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, good luck with that.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Zero breathers, absolutely none.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, there's nothing easy.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, And obviously first play schedule plays a role into that.
But also your cross division matchup is now with the
AFC North, and that was brought up on the success
of the NFC North this year year of was it
maybe slanted a little bit because of the AFC South
matchup that they ended up having to play this season.
Possibly so, But now it comes to roost that way
(06:11):
in with road games at Cincinnati and Baltimore, those are
the two places I would not want to go if
I had to pick road games in the AFC North,
I'd much rather have Baltimore and Cincinnati come to my place.
If I'm the Lions, There's not one breather in that
road game, and there's to go five hundred would be
a huge accomplishment. And so just that fact of Detroit
(06:34):
trying to run a back. You know that they're going
to have a first place schedule, but now to have
the schedule gods drop that on them. Very very difficult
for Detroit next year.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well, not to mention you also talk about just player
turnover hit immensely, just defender after defender going down. I
know that was one of the excuses, reasons crutches, whatever
you want to call I mean, unfortunately, it's a next
man of business. I don't need to know the guy
cv he's playing cornerback for you, you evaluated him, you
(07:04):
put him on your team, and unfortunately sometimes you run
into that. So we'll have to think on some level,
maybe it swings back the pendulum in the other direction
so you get a better season of health. But there's
no guarantees on that. There's no guarantees at all. All
your skill position players that we extol the virtues of
(07:25):
no guarantee that they're often and I'm not calling for
anybody to get hurt. I'm just a realist. Right, you're
already facing and such a turnover in your staff that
there's a lot of you don't get as many days
as you used to you guys, right, I mean, Dan,
you and I have been around this forever. Ian you
know you're writing with with Jets content and being with
(07:46):
us and having covered this as you have. I mean,
you look at the longevity of these things that the
practice schedules are so shortened anymore, the off season workouts,
all of those things were the time an opportunity. It
doesn't mean that they're not all a bunch of liars
and meeting on zoom calls or whatever else. But they're
not in the same building, right, They're not on the
(08:07):
same fields like they were once upon a time, and
that matters with this kind of level of turnover.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
There's at some point we would look at the forty
nine ers running back room and we just thought you
could plug in whoever. But at some point they're just
it isn't the same as it was. And I think
when you say what you said, Mike about the Lion staff,
that's going to be true to form no matter what happens.
So even if you do feel that you have the
replacements for Glenn and Johnson, there are other spots that
(08:35):
are that are going to be hit to stay in
the NFC, and to mention two teams that I mentioned
as road opponents for the Lions this year, more intriguing
off season for you, Mike, Commanders or Rams Rams, And
I think that's probably what everybody else is saying, although
(08:56):
I think more people believe that the Commanders are going
to be contenders again next year just because of Jaden Daniels.
But I find the future of Matthew Stafford and the
Rams maybe trying to turn over a new leaf. There's
one that's very interesting because I actually feel that their
window is still open. Then wanting to trade Cooper Cup
(09:17):
to me, isn't a complete waving the white flag of
next year, just is realizing that maybe somebody thinks Cooper
Cup still has value. But when you have this chatter
about Matthew Stafford and other places to go, sometimes there's smoke,
there's fire, and I'd just be surprised because it would
be a very un less need. Sean McVay sort of
(09:40):
moved to make to move on for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
No, the curiosity right of you know how much behind
the scenes and what dollars they're trying to get right.
You're always trying to add an extra one or two
years to things. He's thirty seven. We chronicled it. I'm
sure you know we talked about it a little bit
on the podcast, but you know, Kelly Stafford kind of
airing some dirty laundry when it comes with the Cooper
(10:04):
Cup stuff and everything else. And McVeigh, at least for now,
he's part of the Giant Fox pregame show, So high coach,
welcome to the team. But you know, I'll talk about
potential TV windows down the line. This is the guy
I don't know that we see on a sideline fifteen
years from now, so it becomes the all right, I'm
gonna get all the winning I can now and if Stafford,
(10:26):
you know, I can't do the ramp up again. Right,
So there's always already the reports that they gave him
a window of saying, hey, you gotta make a decision
of what you want to do here, because last year
they were hampsten like. They came out of the gates terribly.
They lost to the Bears for crying out loud. Okay,
and I know that a bunch of guys hurt, but
the Bears, I mean, come on, so like all the
(10:46):
way through it that you can't have that. Look, you
had a great finish, that's great, but games in September
count two and so going back to that, it's the turnover.
You got nice young defense, some great component parts. Kyen
Williams is a good player, obviously, Pokin Dakua when available
is fantastic. Yeah, there's still some other pieces you need,
(11:09):
but the signal caller is all of it, right, I mean, look,
maybe we get some decision by time folks that are
listening to this in terms of franchise tags or whatever else.
But we had Jason locking forour on right. He wat
Rights for the Washington Post out there in Baltimore, and
he's like, you know, Donald fits really well with what
(11:29):
they want to do with the Rams, isn't he. So
if there is an opportunity to move on from Stafford,
however that comes to play, there's a plug and play
guy right there.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I here's my sense of what it is. Quarterback market
in the draft isn't one of the strongest, Not at all. Yeah,
so you have a question of Mark's there. Would you
rather take cam Ward? Would you rather take Shit or Sanders, Jackson, Dart,
whatever the case may be. Or you could go to
the Rams knowing that the market is basically Sam Darnold
(12:03):
and Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers and say, well, we
have Matthew Stafford here. If you give us a good
enough deal, he can be yours.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Ye don't.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I just don't think even if Matthew Stafford's wife is
airing the dirty laundry and talking about the Cooper Cup trade,
we all know this is people who have had Cooper
Cup on their fantasy team this year. It is not
the same. It's just not it's over with, it's done with.
But people still think Cooper Cup and there's some name
value there, it would make sense for the Rams to
(12:35):
want to move on from him. But if the Stafford
deal comes along, to me, that's he only gets shopped
if there is a magnificent deal out there because people
maybe weren't realizing that he was actually available. I don't
think they're going to take any discount. Oh all yeah,
and so that's kind of my sense of what this is.
(12:58):
I would be I would be very surprise Matthew Stafford's
not the rams starting quarterback, just because it doesn't trend
to what anything the Rams have done in the past.
But I do think they would like to see what
someone would offer because of what actually isn't available for
quarterbacks out there.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Yeah, the fun reset of it, all, Right, do you
talk about the rookie class and we'll always head up
with that third, fourth, and fifth guy at the back
of the round. We know that's gonna happen. In terms
of the veterans, Yeah, it's Donald now, Rogers, Wilson, slash
Fields and Kirk Cousins. Right, we can't forget about old
Captain Kirk. And it's a contract down there. So what
(13:37):
are we talking about a bunch of guys thirty five
plus and Sam Darnald.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You'd rather have Matthew Stafford than all of them.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
That is true. No, that is right. That is right.
But it's the kind of thing like if you can
go reset and we've we've watched Les Snead and McVeigh
and the creativity and what they did trading out golf
to bring Stafford in. They'd got into a super Bowl
with golf, they were no good with it and bounced
him out. So I just need something crazy to happen.
(14:05):
That's really all I'm hoping for.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
I was gonna say, guys, I feel like Less Snead
and Sean McVay, neither of them have have given us
any reason to believe that they don't know what they're
doing or that they would make a bad decision here.
I just feel like, if not that they've shown that
it's time yet, but if they do end up moving
off of matt Stafford, I feel like I'm at least
willing to give them the grace that they probably are
(14:27):
onto something there and Matthew Stafford's probably on the downturn.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
If they're willing to move on from that, which they
might not even be.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's what do you what do you know that we don't?
Why is this? Why is this available?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
And that's why I'm okay with them moving off Cup.
It's like we've seen them. We've seen him, you know,
like you guys said from a fantasy standpoint, we've seen
him not produce the same way. If the Rams suddenly
feel like, all right, it might be time to move on,
I'm not going to sit here and doubt them. Like
they've shown that they're a good, well run franchise.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They've done things that I never thought would work. And
not only did they do them well, they turned it
into a super.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Right well, but look at the year they had this year, right,
Aaron Donald, how many weeks did we think, well, young Defense,
Maybe they can get him to come back, maybe he's
still in shave, maybe he'll want to come back, maybe
he'll save him. Didn't need him right, Still a big
run down the stretch to get things right. Stafford didn't
have overwhelming numbers. But you know you talk about Cups
availability being part of it, the other Nikua missing some time,
(15:24):
right then, a lot of injuries early on. Get healthy,
get right down the stretch. I mean, Cooper Cups thing,
I mean, you just have so much money, like it's
just such a big deal for a guy at this
point what he is. I mean that twenty twenty one
seems like light years away from it. But the same thing,
you know, as we look at Stafford, it's you know,
looking ahead if you can go and reset. And Darnold's
(15:46):
obviously the guy, which is really weird to say it
comes out of my mouth. I see Ian sitting across
from me, Dan, he just has a smile on his face.
The fact that we're talking about him in such a
laudatory just right. Obviously he was destroyed in those four
games with the Rams and and with the the Eagles
they did they did a number or the Lions, I
(16:07):
should say they did the number on him, right, and
you know, the exposure whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Else and made him see ghosts again.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Right, and then we're still looking at Minnesota. I don't
know what McCarthy is at this point, right, I mean,
a couple of knee surgeries from all reports, he was
hanging around the team and he picked up the Playbocrder.
You can't do anything with it because you get walk
so so he still need to do that, you know,
Bucky Brooks doing the show with him on the Sundays.
He brought up the points like, look, they took Daniel
(16:34):
Jones off the scrap heap, and they might just have
enough hubers to think they can replicate what they did
with Sam Darnold on the cheap there while they figure
out whatever the hell they have is with McCarthy. Because
we also talk about a team that you know, Mike Washington.
You know, I think to some degree we look at
it and goes, all right, how many of those wins
And I know Jaden Daniels had the rib injury, but
(16:56):
yet a lot of last minute wins like those even
out We watched that with Minnesota a couple of years ago, Dan,
you and I talking about it here on the podcast
on the shows we did on the Fox Sports Radio
network of you know, those kind of level out for
you year to year. Now, Washington's going to have a
ridiculous schedule that they have to navigate owing to your
Detroit line from earlier, you know, with you know, having
(17:18):
to play through the AFC West and all that on
their schedule. But but it's still just it's just fascinating
that it comes down to Matthew Stafford as this potential
massive seismic shift. Seismic piece to the puzzle of this offseason.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Well, as you always look at the the the what
teams did make it, what teams didn't make it the
previous year, and who's in and who's out the Rams
depending on how the Stafford thing plays out, I think
what have a role in that. I actually think that
the Lions and Vikings to you say, you can expect
that let down in different ways. As we just explained
(17:59):
the NFC West, And I know this from Rich Davis
and Brandon Deutsch, who are names that you may hear
from Fox Sports Radio. We definitely know you know Rich
Davis because it can you know and Rich they're forty
nine Ers fans and I was busting their chops in
the hallway because they were just drooling over the forty
nine ers opponents for next season. And I just gave
(18:20):
the murderers world that the Lions had, but they didn't
take into account what the forty nine Ers team would
look like. They would just look at the opponents, right,
But that is also pretty much buy and large for
most of the NFC West. And I know the Niners
in because of their place in the standings, get the
easier route than say the Rams or Seahawks will. But
that NFC West next year plays against the NFC South
(18:42):
and the AFC South, and so if you don't see
the great improvement from those divisions, you could have another
NFC North situation in the NFC West, which to me,
if I'm the Rams and I see that, and I say, Okay,
maybe let's let's keep Matthew Stafford here because maybe the
schedule isn't as daunting as as it could have been,
I just think it's it's the play for that. But yeah,
(19:03):
I think the Vikings could take a step back. For
talking NFC. I think we expect the commanders to continue
to perform, but I've even said here and have said
on the air, I just think it's human nature that
they're not going to have as magical of a run
that Mike you just laid out in all of the
close games that they ended up playing, it's just not
likely going to happen. So those are your candidates I
think to like take the step back now. The question
(19:26):
is is what teams are ready to step up and
replace them? And in the NFC right now, no freaking clue.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So no, no, that's that's the beauty of it, right. Look,
I can do the easy thing and do the Bears. Well,
everybody thought the Bears were going to be great this year.
I didn't necessarily jump on board that bad I did.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I bought in.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
I didn't like the coaching staff like all the way through. Sure,
and we saw what happened with iber Flues. We saw
Thomas Brown get his multiple promotions. And then you watch
the way the offense played out. Look, fine, completion percentage,
great that you had the streak without an interception, You
(20:06):
didn't throw the ball beyond five yards most most of
the time, you're not winning football games that way. So
they'll be interesting to see. With Ben Johnson how much
can he get And we've talked about it here. I
know you and I certainly have on the network. Dan,
you know, getting Caleb Williams to play in rhythm, play
a timing versus just relying on the fact that he's
(20:29):
gonna outrun the defender somehow who's chasing him down to
make a play. Sixty eight times he did not this year,
plus the other times where he took a hit and
was not sacked, And then we can fight about how
many of those are his fault versus the offensive line.
Somewhere in between the two shall meet. Yeah, I mean
(20:49):
we'll get looking around the league. I mean the Falcons
were eight to nine. I mean the Panthers got some
good ball from Bryce Young down the stretch. Can Canalis
get them to be that much better in y or two?
Because we expect Kellen Moore takes over a reclamation project
any O, the Necons, Right, So it's maybe you get
a little bit of a bounce there, Mike.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's been my my take all week of I am
trying to get it out there. They are tanking for
Arch because it just goes full circle.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
The march for Arch. Let's go.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That's the thing though, is Arch isn't even necessarily entering
the draft next year.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
He is a Manning.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
That's so Ian. Remember history. And apparently you have not
listened to me in the five times that I've talked
about this. Maybe you haven't, that's why you brought it up. No,
I'm just busted your chops. The Mannings have a history
of saying where they want their family member to go,
of course.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Of course, but also think about how Arch has sat
on the bench behind Quinn yours all this time. You
think he's really just going to take one year at
Texas and then both for the NFL.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I mean, yeah, they'll know.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
If the Saints picked first, they'll know. They they will
know by the time when he has to make the
decision to enter the draft. If the Saints pick first,
and if they aren't picking first, maybe he stays another year.
But if the Saints tank and he's number one, I
think he goes into the draft, and that's their plan
full circle, right, Absolutely, it's I've I've tried to lay
(22:22):
it out just on the heels of the Kellen Moore.
Cliff Kingsbury didn't take the job because next season is
going to be awful for the Saints. So why would
Cliff Kingsbury go somewhere where they're not going to win,
where he's going to get a head coaching job in
twenty twenty six. Sorry, he's just he's going to be
a candidate no matter what, and very likely we'll be
back in the head coaching gig. Why don't you stay
(22:43):
in Washington another year? Because the Saints aren't showing any
commitment to winning in twenty twenty five. They still haven't
hit rock bottom yet, so I think that's where it goes.
That's my I like it. That's my thought process on it.
I think it just makes too much sense. They need
something to redevelop themselves after the Drew Brees exit, and
and I think the Manning family would would be on
(23:04):
board with it. They did absolutely be on board.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, and we know Copper always walking the dog and
everything around New Way. He's like the man and he's
the mayor. Yes, absolutely, I watched all a lot of
pregame show. I was I couldn't fall asleep.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Even to the pronunciation, right Copper, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It's my guy. Hey, I always thought he was funny.
It's good to see he's been a decade.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
If the Saints picked second, I think it's a question mark,
you know, and what what would happen? Yeah, it's because
that I have to mortgage their future.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
But because he's from Louisiana, so I mean, I get it,
I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I just his grandpa's Archie Manning, you know, played for
the Saints. He's Saints legend, where the kids grew up,
that's where that's where they're from. It brings everything back home.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
So one of the most undervalued players in NFL history,
a victim of circumstance if there ever was one. Yeah,
you go back and watch old footage of Archie Mann
and you're like, Wow, this poor guy, his poor son
of a gun. What he was playing with and trying
to elevate man.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
All right, let's take a time out. We are long
talking about the NFC. We're already twenty four minutes and
it's been that fun. Don't worry, and there's a lot
more to talk about the AFC. He's Mike Carmen, that's
Ian Roddy, I'm Dan Byer. We'll run down the AFC
next year, and I want your flex. All right, we
touched a lot on the NFC. Let's get to the
AFC side of things. We can leave the Chiefs out
(24:31):
of this conversation. Cincinnati Bengals there right now the talk
of the offseason. T Higgins seems to be at least
a priority for the team, so much that a franchise
tag could be used if they aren't able to strike
a long term deal with him. Mike, I don't love
that move for Cincinnati. I don't think that you need
(24:52):
to pay your top two wide receivers and megabucks. I
don't know if they're like feeling some remorse because Jermaine
Burton's been such a flop and they don't think that
they can get somebody opposite. I just don't know how
wise it is to spend money because you're gonna have
to spend it on Jamar Chase. I don't know how
(25:12):
wise it is to also spend it on t Higgins,
but that seems to be the route that Cincinnata at
least wants to go for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yeah, in the end, what did we see? A contract
issues in San Francisco? And yes, they were hit with
some massive injuries, losing mccaff or whatever else, but their
offseason was defined by contract talk, and for the Bengals,
this offseason has defined hell. The end of the season
(25:40):
was already the chatter of all right, what are they
gonna do? Right? They made a nice charge towards the ends,
and that was great without much of a defense beyond Henderson,
although they did play better late, But Joe Burrow in company,
I don't know that you can pay these guys to
this level unless Joe Burrow is just going to defer
everything like he's shoey Otani. Take a dollar and be
(26:02):
on the rosters forever. I mean, if you're gonna pay
Hendrickson and that's the other part of this, right, if
you're actually gonna pay him, all right, that's one guy
out of your eleven and now you're gonna play pay
the quarterback and two wide receivers. Who the hell's blocking
the running game? Is three guys? I mean they're okay.
Like Chase Brown had some moments, but is he a
(26:24):
game change or no. We watched what Joe Mixon did
down in Houston the gap right in terms of playmaking.
So look, I like T Higgins obviously great numbers when
Chase was out right, and he can step into that
number one role, but there's no comparison. I'm giving Chase
all the money he wants, yes, and I'm figuring out
(26:45):
life after T Higgins. I have to.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It's it's a luxury. And yeah, when you have a car,
you don't say I'll take the heated seats over the wheels.
That's not what you do. And that's what it is.
And that's where you have to be like, all right,
it's been fine, but we need this car to drive.
We need to get to point A to point B.
(27:10):
And you take the hit at that point. And it's
not disrespectful to T. Higgins play by any means, but
it just doesn't It doesn't mesh with what we've seen
in the current NFL. If this was two thousand and five, Mike, absolutely,
this is two thousand and three in the days of
(27:32):
Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison or Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, all
of those great tandems we can think of, Randy Moss,
Chris Carter, the whole deal. Absolutely, I just don't think
it works in this NFL. And I commend Joe Burrow
for wanting to do his part, But as you said,
it's it's also not just T Higgins. It is Trey Hendrickson,
(27:53):
and it's that offensive line. And maybe they found something
with Chase Brown as they're running back, who knows. But
the the offensive line is what gotten Burrow killed in
two out of a season so far. And that's the
point that I would rather look at instead of making
sure that T. Higgins is open and on the other
side of the field.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
All about getting back to the guts of things, right,
You got Yoshivic who shows up in spots. He had
a couple of big plays the Burton conundrum. Right, you
had the off field issue. No charges were filed, but
still you know red flags that pop up and on
the field. Right, we always talk about if you're really important,
(28:32):
you can overlook some things. If you're middling or poor,
then well the team's got to make some other evaluations.
But talking about you know, committing those kinds of dollars
man to two wide receivers and your quarterback already making
fifty five a year, I mean, you need the We
always talk about it, right, you need the quarterback. You
(28:53):
need a guy who can go find and destroy the
other teams. Well there's there's your recipe. There's interesting, okay,
so fine, check and mate. And then Jamar Chase is
just in a class by himself. We'll talk about it
from the fantasy Well, it was one hundred points better
than any other wide receiver in the game for fantasy
purposes this year at PPR leagues. And just a guy
(29:14):
that no matter what you do, what's just end at him.
He's making a play. So we watch all these other
teams make make their endgame runs to conference title games.
In the Super Bowl, you gotta the old Arnold Schwarzenegger
line from pumping iron. You gotta work to balance and definition,
and you gotta work to the guts of your squad.
(29:35):
Joe Burrow running for his life. I don't care what
the final stats are. This is a guy that we've
watched be injured repeatedly, even this year. How many reports
did we have about that wrist, Even deep into the
season when he was putting up monster numbers, it was
still all right. Watch how he holds his arm as
he's on the bench or if he's standing next to someone.
(29:56):
So all of that to say, like, you've got a window.
It's like those people that I warned leaving the Super Bowl.
You got to figure out how to extend that as
much as you can because there's no guarantee you're coming back.
And it all starts and ends with him, So figure
out how to keep them up.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Right. Do you guys think Miles Garrett gets stuck by
the Brons?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yes, you do. I do at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Just because they don't want them there, because the deal
is too good to pass.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Out, too good to pass up in a reset kind
of situation. And he makes enough noise about it, because
I mean that playoff run last two years ago, right,
the Stefanski coaching job and what they were able to do.
I mean you had to pull every string, right, And
I'll give Barry and the roster building squad, you know,
(30:43):
they're just due. They did a pretty good job. You
had pieces all over, oh except for that quarterback that
you had to keep replacing and who's now unavailable to
you for this year. So you're starting off with a rookie.
You need to start building infrastructure around him. Your offensive
linemen are good, but they're getting very old, very fast,
right Beotonio is what thirty five?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, I don't even know at the top of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Or something like that, like teasing retirement regard.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
But but either way, right, like we're talking about guys
that have been staples, that are top notch players that
might be in their final year or two. You need
to go get as many picks as someone's willing to
give up for Miles Garrett and go start building your
team of the future.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You good with that Ian? You think he's gone?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think they trade him, but I I personally I
think the return is going to be less than than
people expect, just because he's over thirty. He's uh, he
doesn't want to be there is kind of the main thing.
He's literally said, he'll do whatever it distressed property. Baby,
Come on, it's not like this is over some contract
dispute and if you can manage to hammer something out there,
you can make them happy. It's like, no, he just
(31:51):
straight up doesn't want to be here anymore. So to me,
I think he's gone no matter what they say.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, I think that. I think that you guys have
hit some strong points. I just don't know who's willing
to do it. And it's funny because I've seen about
five mock drafts that have included trades in the only
team that has been mocked with the Miles Garrett trade
is the Dallas Cowboys, Okay, and which is hilarious because
(32:17):
to me, what that is saying is that let's mock
him to the Cowboy, or let's mock the trade to
the Cowboys because we know Jerry Jones is crazy and
he's crazy enough to do this deal or or would
at least give Cleveland for what they would want.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I agree with that logic, honestly.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah. I mean, even you know, even the young lineman
on the Brons like Jedrick Wills on his way out
like that hasn't worked out. It worked at one point,
but not anymore. So there's there's change absolutely everywhere. And
it's also an organization that you look back and you
look back at Joe Thomas's career. At least Miles Garrett's
(32:53):
been to the playoffs. Yeah, but you know, to that
point of just you know, keeping a guy there, and
Joe Thomas never played in a player game. It just
doesn't seem to be I don't know the need to
do that. He doesn't have to be a Brown for life.
He can still be, you know, he could. He could
still come back when he's done with retirement and wave
to the fans to do what he's got to do.
(33:13):
But this this version of the Browns sure seems to
be over. They could be really helped out with a
bunch of picks and aside from the fact of you
really don't know how many great years he does have
left and and that's the that I think is the
thing to push it over the top if you are
Cleveland of just you know, it's kind of when it's
(33:36):
not exact. But when the Colts had to make the
decision on Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck. It made it
a lot easier that Andrew Luck was there. And even
if Peyton Manning was fully healthy, there were only so
many more years he could play. It ended up being
four more years. But the last one, you know, he
wins the Super Bowl with the Broncos. But we saw
(33:57):
he couldn't throw the ball in the second half of
the season and to the playoffs. So you do that,
you end up doing that deal. And if you're the Browns,
so what if he has a dominant twenty twenty five.
If he had a dominant twenty twenty five for the Browns,
you'd win six games.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
But that's the thing, right, It goes back to the
Saquon Barkley argument that I was trying to make for
what two months. He's great. He would have given the
Giants an extra half a win, Yes, yeah, okay, you
would have loved to watch him run straight into the
back of his offensive lineman who got no traction.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, like, what are we doing?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Same thing with Garrett here. You're in a tough division.
You're clearly in in a rebuilt mode. You got you
got some pieces, there's no question, but you're in a
tough division and you don't have the thing that you need.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And nobody's believing anybody's walking through that door. That's suddenly
a difference maker via the draft or into free agency,
because you're still no matter how much people want. Is
that while DeShawn Watson's not a factor, as long as
he's on the damn books, he's a factor whether he's
at a practice facility or not. As long as they're
they're beholden to any dollars of his contract. It informs
(35:07):
every other damn decision they make, yep. And trying to
deny that is just foolish.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
The offers and the teams that could be interested. And
I don't want to say everybody, but people were calling
out Buffalo of being that team. I think I said
it on this podcast. I apologize if I didn't and
set it on a show. I think that the Bills
need to focus on defense. And if James Cook wants
fifteen million dollars, see you, yeah exactly, Like so you
(35:38):
talk about now a Buffalo team to kind of shift
gears to there, you know they could be in play
for Miles Garrett and whether Pixar right now with the
first round pick, it wouldn't necessarily hurt them. In that case,
I think it would be a huge play for them
on the defensive side. They'd be able to get that
sort of caliber what they need. But I think that's
the only way you get Josh Allen to a Super
Bowl is you don't surround them with just tons and
(35:59):
tons of Office of weapons. You've got to make sure
that that defense is formidable. And getting Miles Garrett in
this window that you have right now, maybe it may
be difficult in years in the past because of what
you're giving up, but I almost think it would be
worth it for Buffalo to roll the dice on a deal.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
No, absolutely. I mean we watched it thinking they'd be
better down the stretch, right, you got a couple of
guys back from injury. Wasn't enough. Wasn't enough even close?
The James Cook things laughable because you know, I've been
a champion of his on the podcast for a couple
of years. This year he got to his four point
nine yards percure. That's great, But if we've got to
(36:39):
limit him to two hundred carries, that's not a fifteen
million dollars a year running.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No two things can be true at once.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
He's a great running back, and he's not worth fifteen
million dollars, right, I mean, and.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
That's the thing, right, and the other like look again,
like you say, Dan, I don't know who hears all
our podcasts and the three of us we might be
an echo chamber to ourselves. But for those that missed it,
like all those guys with the running game right to
kind of extend that to Buffalo and what decisions they've
got to make, right, money shifted towards the defense, to
try to figure out how to stop the Ravens, how
(37:12):
to stop whatever. The next iteration of the Chiefs is
whatever comes out of the AFC West, because that division's
gonna get a lot better. Don't know about the Raiders,
but the other three teams they're not going anywhere, right,
so including the aforemanchal Chiefs of course. But just to
that end is all those guys that left to go
somewhere else were good to great running backs who went
(37:36):
to good to great situations. Right, Philadelphia's offensive line, Baltimore,
they're talking about expecting to lose Ronnie Stanley. You finally
had your offensive line you've been waiting on for these years.
He finally stayed healthy. And your immediately like, yeah, he's
gonna leave, Like no, no, Derrick Henry's fantastic, But guess what,
(37:57):
you're really fantastic. And we watched it with Barkley. What
was the high like during the Super Bowl pregame show?
It was all the runs, he doesn't get touched and
suddenly it's him in a safety and he's waving at him,
go and see you. It's same thing with Derrick Henry,
same thing with Josh Jacobs in Green Bay. They went
to places that had great infrastructure. You gotta build that first.
(38:19):
And the Bills have a pretty good offensive line. You
can go find another running back at far less than
fifteen million.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Dollars, especially in a historically great draft class.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
For that is absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Ian. The division wise, your Jets, how do you feel
with the Aaron Glenn era beginning? Now you're having competition
with the Patriots and them starting over with Mike vrabel.
I don't know how much we think the Dolphins are
going to take a step forward, Ian.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
But that's a rebuild race. Yes, well, I guess I
don't know what the Jets. Can you really say rebuild
when there's nothing like that? There has to have been
something in the first place. You know, it's it's just build.
It's just they're in a build.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
It's I guess it also just as tough to even
take a gay. I said, what the Jets are going
to do now, because there's just so many questions. But
I don't even know what it's going to be your.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
They don't even know who's going to be going to
be the signal caller, of course. But but but with
the decision to move on from Rogers, you guys know
that I've been for that all along, just because when
you hired Glenn, you made the decision that you're doing
a complete culture reset. So you can't just do like
a half measure, like, Okay, we want to do a
culture reset with Aaron Glenn, but we're going to keep
(39:26):
Rogers around because we think he's our best chance to
win games. It's like, no, are you doing a full
reset or not? Because if you keep Rogers around, it's
his organization, like it or not. So I really really
liked that they were willing to do this. I feel
like it was the right thing.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So which guy do you want if to replace the
stafford aside, let's just push him to the side, because
we I think I'll agree out of everything there, he's
the best option. Well, but beyond him.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Well, Rogers at the end of the day is your
best opportunity to win games. But I don't think that
that's really the goal of next season. I think, like
I said it, I mean, obviously you want to win games,
and obviously you want to make the playoffs, but I
think the main goal is just establishing a new culture
and starting to build this thing from the ground up.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah. I agree with that, And what a shame because
of the talent that is on that team. Yeah, but
I mean I'm curious to see on what moves you make.
Do you think that there's value for Sauce Gardner on that.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Team, value in keeping him?
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, Like, yeah, I trade both him.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
And Wilson, you would see I would keep them because
of what I was saying about building a culture, like
you need the right players in place to do that.
Rogers is one of the wrong players. But I don't
think that just because you were in the building during
this last era means that you aren't capable of being
a building block towards a good culture.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
For Wilson in particular, Just some comments Daniels talking about
some of these other things that you may have already
lost him. Yeah, Rogers back or not. He may have
seen enough in that building the last couple of years and.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
He's already done. If that's the case, part of another build.
If that's the case, then you have to get rid
of him. But obviously they know more than that than
I do, and that than we do. They they can
talk to him, they can get a feel for that
and if he wants to stick stick around, which I
really hope he does. He's he's one of my favorite
players on the team. So I really really hope that
he h what's the word, just kind of gets a
(41:22):
better attitude about the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Now that Rogers is gone.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Let's let's wrap up the AFC talk like this. And sorry,
AFC South, We're just not gonna get to you.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
But oh come on, Trevor Lawrence said, nobody wanted me.
I mean, the Steelers didn't want me.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
How about that draft? That trade story that was that
was exciting at least at least we get some spice
going on.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
You know what we did with it, so that I go,
I just may not have any ounce of truth, like
we said it in the moment, it's like, but it's
fun to theorize about. So let's do this. Someone should
try to trade for Trevor Laurence. Absolutely, get him out
of there.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Let's see what he can do.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
The Jags are the ones to leak it, and Pitzer's like,
how did we get dragged into this? You know thirty
one other teams and you picked us, you know, like,
come on, that's But with the AFC West, I think
there will be a Super Bowl hangover, and I think
there's the Chiefs still could win the AFC West next year.
(42:28):
I wouldn't would have passed him to do that, but
I don't think it's going to be difficult for the
Chiefs to get back to the super Bowl. But the
question is is who wins the race then? Between the
Chargers and the Broncos. You alluded that, you know, we'd
like to include the Raiders, but realistically it's probably not it.
Right now, I think we would all think it's the Chargers.
I think on the surface, because we would think year
(42:49):
two with Jim Harbaugh in them actually getting players because
they didn't have players. Are we all on board with that?
Or am I off base because of the promised Denver
Show this year.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I think part one to the Chargers is what are
they doing on the defensive line? Right? In terms of well,
I guess front seven, right. We talk about Khalil Mack,
we talk about Joey Bosa, we talk about their contracts,
their age, their injury histories, all of those things. So
that's one of those that's kind of festering out there,
and the other is who's that receiver that shows up
(43:22):
to save the day?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yep? Right?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I mean, look, I know all of our friends here
at Fox Sports Radio that have any tangential ties to
the Chargers have already started drawing little I Love t.
Higgins notes in their notebooks or on their rundowns around here.
But beyond that, you know, Keenan Allen's like, I'll only
play in Chicago or go back to Los Angeles. I
(43:46):
don't know, he'd be a nice guy to help move
the chains. Lad McConkey actually finished, I think as a
top twelve or top fourteen wide receiver for PPR purposes,
so you at least found a possession guy. So I
don't know that you need Keenan Allen mac, but certainly
you need another target and to maybe let Justin Harbert
use that army pay you paid so much for him
(44:07):
to stick around with. But certainly the building blocks are there,
especially the offensive line being as settled as it is
with Slater and all.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I don't know where the running game will necessarily be
for Denver. We hope that bow Knicks doesn't have a
sophomore slump, but their defense is the real deal. Advance
Joseph isn't going anywhere, and so you would expect that
defense and that may be the strongest unit of any
of the units for both of those teams. And you're
(44:36):
coming back next year, so Denver is going to be
a part of that equation. You just hope that bow
Knicks can end up taking that next step. But yeah,
to your point, the funny thing about the Chargers and
the wide receiver thing is again because you bring up
t Higgins, it's because that's best available and that's all
that they They just they want something, they want something good.
(44:58):
Is the cocky. Yeah that lad Wikkey was pretty good,
like like he was, and he's not the Michael Crabtree
that you're gonna have on those hardball forty nine Ers teams.
But I think that that's what you need. So you
got to find that guy to be that crabtree guy.
I don't know if T. Higgins is that guy, but
if you're the Chargers, you got to figure out a
(45:20):
way to go find him.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Well, let me run through a couple of guys that
are in the marketplace. I mean, Stevon Digg is a
free agent. You got T Higgins, Keenan Allen, Amari, Cooper
Godwin coming off his injury might be too spicy down
there in Tampa. And you know, and they roll the
dice that they can move on without him. Beyond that,
(45:43):
it's just a lot of jags.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Harrett Wilson, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Well, no, that's what I mean. I'd go and I'd
see what I can package together. I don't know what
kind of pile of picks the Chargers have, as I try.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
To don't worry about it. I wouldn't even be able
to tell you what the Jets would accept at this
point for it.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Anyway, that's a good question. But I mean it's all
philosophical and that's the beauty of these exercises that we
have here.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be a fun, fun offseason.
In looking ahead, I'll tell you one thing that I
really like. I really really like that we don't know
who the number one pick is going to be right now,
not it'll probably leak at some point. But what I
mean by that is it's it's not a rotation of quarterbacks,
like is it Baker Mayfield, is it Sam Darnold? Who
is it? I've seen mock drafts with Travis Hunter one.
(46:34):
I've seen mock drafts drafts with abdual Carter number one.
I've seen them with Cam Wore number one. So just
the whole different areas that it can go. That actually
makes for a fun draft when you're not sure on
the player or even the position, because that has so
many dominoes. So hopefully that'll make things exciting and maybe
can even spice up some trades this offseason.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Well we have the Tennessee GM say you can't pass
on a generational guy. Ian who do you think he
was referring to.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
I've been thinking about that, and while for a while
I thought it was Abdul Carter because he's legitimately just
a freak off the edge, it's Travis Hunter. It has
to be right, because generational you're talking about a guy who,
like how many guys have we ever seen play both
sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
This was going to be this is gonna be my
last word. When Dave Gettlman was the GM of the Giants,
he said the same thing in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
I know what you're gonna say when.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
They were picking number two, and I honestly thought, guys,
I honestly thought he was going to take Quintin Nelson
because that was the only truly like sure thing. When
when Quentin Nelson was coming out of that draft, the
way that he the way that he said it, I'm like,
you know what, that would actually make sense that you're
trying to draft a you know, Hall of Fame sort
of guy. And then who does he end up drafting?
(47:47):
Tae Kwon Barkley. So there was and now we're like, oh,
Gettleman was right. You just happened to do it in
an Eagles uniform. But so I've heard that verbiage before
and I was I was wrong on it one time,
and I don't think I want to be wrong again.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
So I enjoyed the chaos theory. This draft run is
going to be amazing. The combine coming up here in
short order and all the mock drafts and full effect
all our friends in the larger media business that do
forty seven iterations of them, and all of the scuttle
button rumor conjectures, speculations starting with the franchise tags and
(48:24):
then moving on to some of these things like Ian's
jets and so on. Like, there's just so many big
names that potentially can get moved this time around. Again,
we talked about it out here in Los Angeles with
the Rams. If they decide to move on from Stafford,
what has it become? Like? I think it's gonna be
an absolutely fascinating off season. Meanwhile, the Saints are in
(48:47):
the March for Arch, so it's all good and bending
pat and pending trademark bending.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I Mike, you know, as much as I'd love for
you to have that, I think i'm my run down.
I'll tell you what I wrote on Sunday. This was
my line the March for Arch. That's exactly what I wrote. Yes,
there we go.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
We'll have to delight about it.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
We could go have the He's on it. That's that's
I'm good with that. I call them the New New
Orleans Saints. But yeah, hey went on the new New
Orleans Saints. We've got our top sixty draft for twenty
twenty five coming up, plus some other fun episodes, whether
it be content that Mike has on his Sunday show
(49:28):
or even great conversations he does weekday nights with Jason
Smith on five Sports Radio. Also some conversations I had
at the Super Bowl with some of the NFL's star players,
Will Anderson at the Houston Texan stop by. Also got
a chance to speak with Austin Eckler and Brian Robinson.
You'll hear those conversations in so much more in upcoming
episodes of I Want Your Flags. So for Ian Roddy
(49:51):
and Mike Carmen, we hope you enjoyed our look back
at our look ahead, and we'll be back again with
our top sixty draft of twenty twenty five. That's next time,
right your and I Want Your Flex hmm
Ladies.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
And you want experience during your football season, well, buckle up,
sweet cheeks. We've got all the experience in the world.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
This is I want your flex.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
With Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Mike and Dan break down everything you need to set
your lineups, from position rankings to starts and sits. The
guys help you make those hard decisions. And now let's
get your flexod here's Dan Bayer and Mike Harmon.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
The off season is officially here. Hit Mike up at
Swollen Dome, find him on Blue Sky. At Mike Harmon,
you can find me Dan Bayer at Dan Byer on
Fox on X and at Dan Byer on Blue Sky.
And Ian Roddy is our executive producer. It's Ian Desh
Roddy and Blue Sky and Ian Roddy underscore on X.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, that's all right me boom, I'm getting it down,
pat Ian. Just as the season is winding down for
us here on you.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Call it a three pointer, you would have been the
first guy to hit one. Oh, I'm sorry. Did I
take a shot at NBA All Star Weekend? And whenever
I watched it it was fine.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It is a funky spot that we're in right now
because the NBA is off, the NFL is waiting to
ride into combine stuff, the coaching carousel is pretty much stopped.
So there's some stuff that's going on, but it doesn't
necessarily grab the headlines as we normally would for any
(01:32):
other week of the year. It's kind of a sneaky
quiet spot for the NFL before they really ramp up
over these next couple of weeks, and it allows us
here to really take a look back a little bit
at what the previous season has and had transpired and
what could transpire into twenty twenty five. And last week
(01:53):
we talked a lot about the Super Bowl Chiefs and
Eagles and where that is, but there's also thirty other
teams that have been waiting to look ahead or even
still try to figure out what went wrong, Mike, And
that's kind of where as we enter the twenty twenty
five season, in the new league year coming up in
not less than a month, there are still some things
from twenty twenty four that I look back on, and
(02:14):
I'm just going to start with the Detroit Lions. For
a team that had such an amazing run in the
regular season, for it to happen to end so suddenly
and then have the departures that we thought that they
would have with Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn now being
head coaches elsewhere. I look back at the Lions, not
(02:35):
to start on a negative note for them, but I am.
I wonder if now that last season, meaning twenty twenty three,
was the peak season as we look ahead the next year,
I wonder if this was the best opportunity for the
Lions to get it done. And now I have questions
for them going into twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah. I mean, part of it is the in Campbell
we trust. All right, here's our philosophy, here's how we
do things. That's all fine and good. Seven assistant coaches,
seven yes, and your two coordinators. And offensively, Ben Johnson
got too cute time and again. For me. We talked
about it all year long. Some of it hubris of
(03:14):
the all right, I'm just gonna show you because I
know we're better than you. You know, let's let's run
a play for pinay Sewell in a first quarter possession
against the Bears, right, things like that that Now that
he's the coach of the Bears, I hope I'll hate
it just the same, because eventually it does come back
to bite you in the ass. The football gods are
a very thickle bunch lowercase G of course, but like
(03:37):
the let's do the wide receiver pass. No, we're getting
back into a football game, let's do that. So philosophically,
how much of that stuff stays right in terms of
how Ben Johnson was so eclectic and creative in his
mixing and matching, you know, kind of like painting and
throwing stuff at an easel and you know, all right,
(03:59):
let's look at at what that print comes out at. Nah,
all right, what art movement? Can we call it? Slap
a tag on it. Let's see what we can do.
I don't know that it works the same way. Is
Jared Goff the same quarterback? Now we got a lot
of talent, there's no question about it. But to think
that the machine just rolls on so easily. Not that
(04:20):
Ben Jonson suddenly gonna win seven more games with the Bears,
but you would think that they'll be at least back
to their twenty twenty three form. Right, they were a
seven win team right in Minnesota. Don't know what their
quarterback situation is as we sit here and record this
you know, the Monday before franchise tags and everything go down.
(04:41):
But even a regression, they're still a pretty good team.
And Green Bays got the guts to be a good team.
And if they don't drop so many passes, and I
know it's a lot of ifs, but particularly in that case,
if they secure the football, Jordan loves that much better
and that team is so much better, right, balance with
what they got from Josh Jacobs and all of a sudden, well,
(05:03):
now you're fighting all three teams in the division. You
got the gift this year that the Bears weren't any good.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, you're absolutely right. And to your point, if Chicago
does win at least seven games, combine that with what
you Elsa said about Green Bay and Minnesota, and then
I'm going to lay this Anya, here's Detroit's road games
next year. You ready for this?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
All right?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
We know the division? Those three teams Washington, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Baltimore,
Kansas City and the Los Angeles Rams.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, good luck with that.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Zero breathers, absolutely none.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, there's nothing easy.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, And obviously first play schedule plays a role into that.
But also your cross division matchup is now with the
AFC North, and that was brought up on the success
of the NFC North this year year of was it
maybe slanted a little bit because of the AFC South
matchup that they ended up having to play this season.
Possibly so, But now it comes to roost that way
(06:11):
in with road games at Cincinnati and Baltimore, those are
the two places I would not want to go if
I had to pick road games in the AFC North,
I'd much rather have Baltimore and Cincinnati come to my place.
If I'm the Lions, There's not one breather in that
road game, and there's to go five hundred would be
a huge accomplishment. And so just that fact of Detroit
(06:34):
trying to run a back. You know that they're going
to have a first place schedule, but now to have
the schedule gods drop that on them. Very very difficult
for Detroit next year.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well, not to mention you also talk about just player
turnover hit immensely, just defender after defender going down. I
know that was one of the excuses, reasons crutches, whatever
you want to call I mean, unfortunately, it's a next
man of business. I don't need to know the guy
cv he's playing cornerback for you, you evaluated him, you
(07:04):
put him on your team, and unfortunately sometimes you run
into that. So we'll have to think on some level,
maybe it swings back the pendulum in the other direction
so you get a better season of health. But there's
no guarantees on that. There's no guarantees at all. All
your skill position players that we extol the virtues of
(07:25):
no guarantee that they're often and I'm not calling for
anybody to get hurt. I'm just a realist. Right, you're
already facing and such a turnover in your staff that
there's a lot of you don't get as many days
as you used to you guys, right, I mean, Dan,
you and I have been around this forever. Ian you
know you're writing with with Jets content and being with
(07:46):
us and having covered this as you have. I mean,
you look at the longevity of these things that the
practice schedules are so shortened anymore, the off season workouts,
all of those things were the time an opportunity. It
doesn't mean that they're not all a bunch of liars
and meeting on zoom calls or whatever else. But they're
not in the same building, right, They're not on the
(08:07):
same fields like they were once upon a time, and
that matters with this kind of level of turnover.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
There's at some point we would look at the forty
nine ers running back room and we just thought you
could plug in whoever. But at some point they're just
it isn't the same as it was. And I think
when you say what you said, Mike about the Lion staff,
that's going to be true to form no matter what happens.
So even if you do feel that you have the
replacements for Glenn and Johnson, there are other spots that
(08:35):
are that are going to be hit to stay in
the NFC, and to mention two teams that I mentioned
as road opponents for the Lions this year, more intriguing
off season for you, Mike, Commanders or Rams Rams, And
I think that's probably what everybody else is saying, although
(08:56):
I think more people believe that the Commanders are going
to be contenders again next year just because of Jaden Daniels.
But I find the future of Matthew Stafford and the
Rams maybe trying to turn over a new leaf. There's
one that's very interesting because I actually feel that their
window is still open. Then wanting to trade Cooper Cup
(09:17):
to me, isn't a complete waving the white flag of
next year, just is realizing that maybe somebody thinks Cooper
Cup still has value. But when you have this chatter
about Matthew Stafford and other places to go, sometimes there's smoke,
there's fire, and I'd just be surprised because it would
be a very un less need. Sean McVay sort of
(09:40):
moved to make to move on for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
No, the curiosity right of you know how much behind
the scenes and what dollars they're trying to get right.
You're always trying to add an extra one or two
years to things. He's thirty seven. We chronicled it. I'm
sure you know we talked about it a little bit
on the podcast, but you know, Kelly Stafford kind of
airing some dirty laundry when it comes with the Cooper
(10:04):
Cup stuff and everything else. And McVeigh, at least for now,
he's part of the Giant Fox pregame show, So high coach,
welcome to the team. But you know, I'll talk about
potential TV windows down the line. This is the guy
I don't know that we see on a sideline fifteen
years from now, so it becomes the all right, I'm
gonna get all the winning I can now and if Stafford,
(10:26):
you know, I can't do the ramp up again. Right,
So there's always already the reports that they gave him
a window of saying, hey, you gotta make a decision
of what you want to do here, because last year
they were hampsten like. They came out of the gates terribly.
They lost to the Bears for crying out loud. Okay,
and I know that a bunch of guys hurt, but
the Bears, I mean, come on, so like all the
(10:46):
way through it that you can't have that. Look, you
had a great finish, that's great, but games in September
count two and so going back to that, it's the turnover.
You got nice young defense, some great component parts. Kyen
Williams is a good player, obviously, Pokin Dakua when available
is fantastic. Yeah, there's still some other pieces you need,
(11:09):
but the signal caller is all of it, right, I mean, look,
maybe we get some decision by time folks that are
listening to this in terms of franchise tags or whatever else.
But we had Jason locking forour on right. He wat
Rights for the Washington Post out there in Baltimore, and
he's like, you know, Donald fits really well with what
(11:29):
they want to do with the Rams, isn't he. So
if there is an opportunity to move on from Stafford,
however that comes to play, there's a plug and play
guy right there.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I here's my sense of what it is. Quarterback market
in the draft isn't one of the strongest, Not at all. Yeah,
so you have a question of Mark's there. Would you
rather take cam Ward? Would you rather take Shit or Sanders, Jackson, Dart,
whatever the case may be. Or you could go to
the Rams knowing that the market is basically Sam Darnold
(12:03):
and Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers and say, well, we
have Matthew Stafford here. If you give us a good
enough deal, he can be yours.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Ye don't.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I just don't think even if Matthew Stafford's wife is
airing the dirty laundry and talking about the Cooper Cup trade,
we all know this is people who have had Cooper
Cup on their fantasy team this year. It is not
the same. It's just not it's over with, it's done with.
But people still think Cooper Cup and there's some name
value there, it would make sense for the Rams to
(12:35):
want to move on from him. But if the Stafford
deal comes along, to me, that's he only gets shopped
if there is a magnificent deal out there because people
maybe weren't realizing that he was actually available. I don't
think they're going to take any discount. Oh all yeah,
and so that's kind of my sense of what this is.
(12:58):
I would be I would be very surprise Matthew Stafford's
not the rams starting quarterback, just because it doesn't trend
to what anything the Rams have done in the past.
But I do think they would like to see what
someone would offer because of what actually isn't available for
quarterbacks out there.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Yeah, the fun reset of it, all, Right, do you
talk about the rookie class and we'll always head up
with that third, fourth, and fifth guy at the back
of the round. We know that's gonna happen. In terms
of the veterans, Yeah, it's Donald now, Rogers, Wilson, slash
Fields and Kirk Cousins. Right, we can't forget about old
Captain Kirk. And it's a contract down there. So what
(13:37):
are we talking about a bunch of guys thirty five
plus and Sam Darnald.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You'd rather have Matthew Stafford than all of them.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
That is true. No, that is right. That is right.
But it's the kind of thing like if you can
go reset and we've we've watched Les Snead and McVeigh
and the creativity and what they did trading out golf
to bring Stafford in. They'd got into a super Bowl
with golf, they were no good with it and bounced
him out. So I just need something crazy to happen.
(14:05):
That's really all I'm hoping for.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
I was gonna say, guys, I feel like Less Snead
and Sean McVay, neither of them have have given us
any reason to believe that they don't know what they're
doing or that they would make a bad decision here.
I just feel like, if not that they've shown that
it's time yet, but if they do end up moving
off of matt Stafford, I feel like I'm at least
willing to give them the grace that they probably are
(14:27):
onto something there and Matthew Stafford's probably on the downturn.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
If they're willing to move on from that, which they
might not even be.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's what do you what do you know that we don't?
Why is this? Why is this available?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
And that's why I'm okay with them moving off Cup.
It's like we've seen them. We've seen him, you know,
like you guys said from a fantasy standpoint, we've seen
him not produce the same way. If the Rams suddenly
feel like, all right, it might be time to move on,
I'm not going to sit here and doubt them. Like
they've shown that they're a good, well run franchise.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They've done things that I never thought would work. And
not only did they do them well, they turned it
into a super.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Right well, but look at the year they had this year, right,
Aaron Donald, how many weeks did we think, well, young Defense,
Maybe they can get him to come back, maybe he's
still in shave, maybe he'll want to come back, maybe
he'll save him. Didn't need him right, Still a big
run down the stretch to get things right. Stafford didn't
have overwhelming numbers. But you know you talk about Cups
availability being part of it, the other Nikua missing some time,
(15:24):
right then, a lot of injuries early on. Get healthy,
get right down the stretch. I mean, Cooper Cups thing,
I mean, you just have so much money, like it's
just such a big deal for a guy at this
point what he is. I mean that twenty twenty one
seems like light years away from it. But the same thing,
you know, as we look at Stafford, it's you know,
looking ahead if you can go and reset. And Darnold's
(15:46):
obviously the guy, which is really weird to say it
comes out of my mouth. I see Ian sitting across
from me, Dan, he just has a smile on his face.
The fact that we're talking about him in such a
laudatory just right. Obviously he was destroyed in those four
games with the Rams and and with the the Eagles
they did they did a number or the Lions, I
(16:07):
should say they did the number on him, right, and
you know, the exposure whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Else and made him see ghosts again.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Right, and then we're still looking at Minnesota. I don't
know what McCarthy is at this point, right, I mean,
a couple of knee surgeries from all reports, he was
hanging around the team and he picked up the Playbocrder.
You can't do anything with it because you get walk
so so he still need to do that, you know,
Bucky Brooks doing the show with him on the Sundays.
He brought up the points like, look, they took Daniel
(16:34):
Jones off the scrap heap, and they might just have
enough hubers to think they can replicate what they did
with Sam Darnold on the cheap there while they figure
out whatever the hell they have is with McCarthy. Because
we also talk about a team that you know, Mike Washington.
You know, I think to some degree we look at
it and goes, all right, how many of those wins
And I know Jaden Daniels had the rib injury, but
(16:56):
yet a lot of last minute wins like those even
out We watched that with Minnesota a couple of years ago, Dan,
you and I talking about it here on the podcast
on the shows we did on the Fox Sports Radio
network of you know, those kind of level out for
you year to year. Now, Washington's going to have a
ridiculous schedule that they have to navigate owing to your
Detroit line from earlier, you know, with you know, having
(17:18):
to play through the AFC West and all that on
their schedule. But but it's still just it's just fascinating
that it comes down to Matthew Stafford as this potential
massive seismic shift. Seismic piece to the puzzle of this offseason.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Well, as you always look at the the the what
teams did make it, what teams didn't make it the
previous year, and who's in and who's out the Rams
depending on how the Stafford thing plays out, I think
what have a role in that. I actually think that
the Lions and Vikings to you say, you can expect
that let down in different ways. As we just explained
(17:59):
the NFC West, And I know this from Rich Davis
and Brandon Deutsch, who are names that you may hear
from Fox Sports Radio. We definitely know you know Rich
Davis because it can you know and Rich they're forty
nine Ers fans and I was busting their chops in
the hallway because they were just drooling over the forty
nine ers opponents for next season. And I just gave
(18:20):
the murderers world that the Lions had, but they didn't
take into account what the forty nine Ers team would
look like. They would just look at the opponents, right,
But that is also pretty much buy and large for
most of the NFC West. And I know the Niners
in because of their place in the standings, get the
easier route than say the Rams or Seahawks will. But
that NFC West next year plays against the NFC South
(18:42):
and the AFC South, and so if you don't see
the great improvement from those divisions, you could have another
NFC North situation in the NFC West, which to me,
if I'm the Rams and I see that, and I say, Okay,
maybe let's let's keep Matthew Stafford here because maybe the
schedule isn't as daunting as as it could have been,
I just think it's it's the play for that. But yeah,
(19:03):
I think the Vikings could take a step back. For
talking NFC. I think we expect the commanders to continue
to perform, but I've even said here and have said
on the air, I just think it's human nature that
they're not going to have as magical of a run
that Mike you just laid out in all of the
close games that they ended up playing, it's just not
likely going to happen. So those are your candidates I
think to like take the step back now. The question
(19:26):
is is what teams are ready to step up and
replace them? And in the NFC right now, no freaking clue.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So no, no, that's that's the beauty of it, right. Look,
I can do the easy thing and do the Bears. Well,
everybody thought the Bears were going to be great this year.
I didn't necessarily jump on board that bad I did.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I bought in.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
I didn't like the coaching staff like all the way through. Sure,
and we saw what happened with iber Flues. We saw
Thomas Brown get his multiple promotions. And then you watch
the way the offense played out. Look, fine, completion percentage,
great that you had the streak without an interception, You
(20:06):
didn't throw the ball beyond five yards most most of
the time, you're not winning football games that way. So
they'll be interesting to see. With Ben Johnson how much
can he get And we've talked about it here. I
know you and I certainly have on the network. Dan,
you know, getting Caleb Williams to play in rhythm, play
a timing versus just relying on the fact that he's
(20:29):
gonna outrun the defender somehow who's chasing him down to
make a play. Sixty eight times he did not this year,
plus the other times where he took a hit and
was not sacked, And then we can fight about how
many of those are his fault versus the offensive line.
Somewhere in between the two shall meet. Yeah, I mean
(20:49):
we'll get looking around the league. I mean the Falcons
were eight to nine. I mean the Panthers got some
good ball from Bryce Young down the stretch. Can Canalis
get them to be that much better in y or two?
Because we expect Kellen Moore takes over a reclamation project
any O, the Necons, Right, So it's maybe you get
a little bit of a bounce there, Mike.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's been my my take all week of I am
trying to get it out there. They are tanking for
Arch because it just goes full circle.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
The march for Arch. Let's go.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That's the thing though, is Arch isn't even necessarily entering
the draft next year.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
He is a Manning.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
That's so Ian. Remember history. And apparently you have not
listened to me in the five times that I've talked
about this. Maybe you haven't, that's why you brought it up. No,
I'm just busted your chops. The Mannings have a history
of saying where they want their family member to go,
of course.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Of course, but also think about how Arch has sat
on the bench behind Quinn yours all this time. You
think he's really just going to take one year at
Texas and then both for the NFL.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I mean, yeah, they'll know.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
If the Saints picked first, they'll know. They they will
know by the time when he has to make the
decision to enter the draft. If the Saints pick first,
and if they aren't picking first, maybe he stays another year.
But if the Saints tank and he's number one, I
think he goes into the draft, and that's their plan
full circle, right, Absolutely, it's I've I've tried to lay
(22:22):
it out just on the heels of the Kellen Moore.
Cliff Kingsbury didn't take the job because next season is
going to be awful for the Saints. So why would
Cliff Kingsbury go somewhere where they're not going to win,
where he's going to get a head coaching job in
twenty twenty six. Sorry, he's just he's going to be
a candidate no matter what, and very likely we'll be
back in the head coaching gig. Why don't you stay
(22:43):
in Washington another year? Because the Saints aren't showing any
commitment to winning in twenty twenty five. They still haven't
hit rock bottom yet, so I think that's where it goes.
That's my I like it. That's my thought process on it.
I think it just makes too much sense. They need
something to redevelop themselves after the Drew Brees exit, and
and I think the Manning family would would be on
(23:04):
board with it. They did absolutely be on board.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, and we know Copper always walking the dog and
everything around New Way. He's like the man and he's
the mayor. Yes, absolutely, I watched all a lot of
pregame show. I was I couldn't fall asleep.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Even to the pronunciation, right Copper, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It's my guy. Hey, I always thought he was funny.
It's good to see he's been a decade.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
If the Saints picked second, I think it's a question mark,
you know, and what what would happen? Yeah, it's because
that I have to mortgage their future.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
But because he's from Louisiana, so I mean, I get it,
I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I just his grandpa's Archie Manning, you know, played for
the Saints. He's Saints legend, where the kids grew up,
that's where that's where they're from. It brings everything back home.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
So one of the most undervalued players in NFL history,
a victim of circumstance if there ever was one. Yeah,
you go back and watch old footage of Archie Mann
and you're like, Wow, this poor guy, his poor son
of a gun. What he was playing with and trying
to elevate man.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
All right, let's take a time out. We are long
talking about the NFC. We're already twenty four minutes and
it's been that fun. Don't worry, and there's a lot
more to talk about the AFC. He's Mike Carmen, that's
Ian Roddy, I'm Dan Byer. We'll run down the AFC
next year, and I want your flex. All right, we
touched a lot on the NFC. Let's get to the
AFC side of things. We can leave the Chiefs out
(24:31):
of this conversation. Cincinnati Bengals there right now the talk
of the offseason. T Higgins seems to be at least
a priority for the team, so much that a franchise
tag could be used if they aren't able to strike
a long term deal with him. Mike, I don't love
that move for Cincinnati. I don't think that you need
(24:52):
to pay your top two wide receivers and megabucks. I
don't know if they're like feeling some remorse because Jermaine
Burton's been such a flop and they don't think that
they can get somebody opposite. I just don't know how
wise it is to spend money because you're gonna have
to spend it on Jamar Chase. I don't know how
(25:12):
wise it is to also spend it on t Higgins,
but that seems to be the route that Cincinnata at
least wants to go for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yeah, in the end, what did we see? A contract
issues in San Francisco? And yes, they were hit with
some massive injuries, losing mccaff or whatever else, but their
offseason was defined by contract talk, and for the Bengals,
this offseason has defined hell. The end of the season
(25:40):
was already the chatter of all right, what are they
gonna do? Right? They made a nice charge towards the ends,
and that was great without much of a defense beyond Henderson,
although they did play better late, But Joe Burrow in company,
I don't know that you can pay these guys to
this level unless Joe Burrow is just going to defer
everything like he's shoey Otani. Take a dollar and be
(26:02):
on the rosters forever. I mean, if you're gonna pay
Hendrickson and that's the other part of this, right, if
you're actually gonna pay him, all right, that's one guy
out of your eleven and now you're gonna play pay
the quarterback and two wide receivers. Who the hell's blocking
the running game? Is three guys? I mean they're okay.
Like Chase Brown had some moments, but is he a
(26:24):
game change or no. We watched what Joe Mixon did
down in Houston the gap right in terms of playmaking.
So look, I like T Higgins obviously great numbers when
Chase was out right, and he can step into that
number one role, but there's no comparison. I'm giving Chase
all the money he wants, yes, and I'm figuring out
(26:45):
life after T Higgins. I have to.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It's it's a luxury. And yeah, when you have a car,
you don't say I'll take the heated seats over the wheels.
That's not what you do. And that's what it is.
And that's where you have to be like, all right,
it's been fine, but we need this car to drive.
We need to get to point A to point B.
(27:10):
And you take the hit at that point. And it's
not disrespectful to T. Higgins play by any means, but
it just doesn't It doesn't mesh with what we've seen
in the current NFL. If this was two thousand and five, Mike, absolutely,
this is two thousand and three in the days of
(27:32):
Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison or Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, all
of those great tandems we can think of, Randy Moss,
Chris Carter, the whole deal. Absolutely, I just don't think
it works in this NFL. And I commend Joe Burrow
for wanting to do his part, But as you said,
it's it's also not just T Higgins. It is Trey Hendrickson,
(27:53):
and it's that offensive line. And maybe they found something
with Chase Brown as they're running back, who knows. But
the the offensive line is what gotten Burrow killed in
two out of a season so far. And that's the
point that I would rather look at instead of making
sure that T. Higgins is open and on the other
side of the field.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
All about getting back to the guts of things, right,
You got Yoshivic who shows up in spots. He had
a couple of big plays the Burton conundrum. Right, you
had the off field issue. No charges were filed, but
still you know red flags that pop up and on
the field. Right, we always talk about if you're really important,
(28:32):
you can overlook some things. If you're middling or poor,
then well the team's got to make some other evaluations.
But talking about you know, committing those kinds of dollars
man to two wide receivers and your quarterback already making
fifty five a year, I mean, you need the We
always talk about it, right, you need the quarterback. You
(28:53):
need a guy who can go find and destroy the
other teams. Well there's there's your recipe. There's interesting, okay,
so fine, check and mate. And then Jamar Chase is
just in a class by himself. We'll talk about it
from the fantasy Well, it was one hundred points better
than any other wide receiver in the game for fantasy
purposes this year at PPR leagues. And just a guy
(29:14):
that no matter what you do, what's just end at him.
He's making a play. So we watch all these other
teams make make their endgame runs to conference title games.
In the Super Bowl, you gotta the old Arnold Schwarzenegger
line from pumping iron. You gotta work to balance and definition,
and you gotta work to the guts of your squad.
(29:35):
Joe Burrow running for his life. I don't care what
the final stats are. This is a guy that we've
watched be injured repeatedly, even this year. How many reports
did we have about that wrist, Even deep into the
season when he was putting up monster numbers, it was
still all right. Watch how he holds his arm as
he's on the bench or if he's standing next to someone.
(29:56):
So all of that to say, like, you've got a window.
It's like those people that I warned leaving the Super Bowl.
You got to figure out how to extend that as
much as you can because there's no guarantee you're coming back.
And it all starts and ends with him, So figure
out how to keep them up.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Right. Do you guys think Miles Garrett gets stuck by
the Brons?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yes, you do. I do at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Just because they don't want them there, because the deal
is too good to pass.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Out, too good to pass up in a reset kind
of situation. And he makes enough noise about it, because
I mean that playoff run last two years ago, right,
the Stefanski coaching job and what they were able to do.
I mean you had to pull every string, right, And
I'll give Barry and the roster building squad, you know,
(30:43):
they're just due. They did a pretty good job. You
had pieces all over, oh except for that quarterback that
you had to keep replacing and who's now unavailable to
you for this year. So you're starting off with a rookie.
You need to start building infrastructure around him. Your offensive
linemen are good, but they're getting very old, very fast,
right Beotonio is what thirty five?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, I don't even know at the top of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Or something like that, like teasing retirement regard.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
But but either way, right, like we're talking about guys
that have been staples, that are top notch players that
might be in their final year or two. You need
to go get as many picks as someone's willing to
give up for Miles Garrett and go start building your
team of the future.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You good with that Ian? You think he's gone?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think they trade him, but I I personally I
think the return is going to be less than than
people expect, just because he's over thirty. He's uh, he
doesn't want to be there is kind of the main thing.
He's literally said, he'll do whatever it distressed property. Baby,
Come on, it's not like this is over some contract
dispute and if you can manage to hammer something out there,
you can make them happy. It's like, no, he just
(31:51):
straight up doesn't want to be here anymore. So to me,
I think he's gone no matter what they say.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, I think that. I think that you guys have
hit some strong points. I just don't know who's willing
to do it. And it's funny because I've seen about
five mock drafts that have included trades in the only
team that has been mocked with the Miles Garrett trade
is the Dallas Cowboys, Okay, and which is hilarious because
(32:17):
to me, what that is saying is that let's mock
him to the Cowboy, or let's mock the trade to
the Cowboys because we know Jerry Jones is crazy and
he's crazy enough to do this deal or or would
at least give Cleveland for what they would want.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I agree with that logic, honestly.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah. I mean, even you know, even the young lineman
on the Brons like Jedrick Wills on his way out
like that hasn't worked out. It worked at one point,
but not anymore. So there's there's change absolutely everywhere. And
it's also an organization that you look back and you
look back at Joe Thomas's career. At least Miles Garrett's
(32:53):
been to the playoffs. Yeah, but you know, to that
point of just you know, keeping a guy there, and
Joe Thomas never played in a player game. It just
doesn't seem to be I don't know the need to
do that. He doesn't have to be a Brown for life.
He can still be, you know, he could. He could
still come back when he's done with retirement and wave
to the fans to do what he's got to do.
(33:13):
But this this version of the Browns sure seems to
be over. They could be really helped out with a
bunch of picks and aside from the fact of you
really don't know how many great years he does have
left and and that's the that I think is the
thing to push it over the top if you are
Cleveland of just you know, it's kind of when it's
(33:36):
not exact. But when the Colts had to make the
decision on Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck. It made it
a lot easier that Andrew Luck was there. And even
if Peyton Manning was fully healthy, there were only so
many more years he could play. It ended up being
four more years. But the last one, you know, he
wins the Super Bowl with the Broncos. But we saw
(33:57):
he couldn't throw the ball in the second half of
the season and to the playoffs. So you do that,
you end up doing that deal. And if you're the Browns,
so what if he has a dominant twenty twenty five.
If he had a dominant twenty twenty five for the Browns,
you'd win six games.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
But that's the thing, right, It goes back to the
Saquon Barkley argument that I was trying to make for
what two months. He's great. He would have given the
Giants an extra half a win, Yes, yeah, okay, you
would have loved to watch him run straight into the
back of his offensive lineman who got no traction.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, like, what are we doing?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Same thing with Garrett here. You're in a tough division.
You're clearly in in a rebuilt mode. You got you
got some pieces, there's no question, but you're in a
tough division and you don't have the thing that you need.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And nobody's believing anybody's walking through that door. That's suddenly
a difference maker via the draft or into free agency,
because you're still no matter how much people want. Is
that while DeShawn Watson's not a factor, as long as
he's on the damn books, he's a factor whether he's
at a practice facility or not. As long as they're
they're beholden to any dollars of his contract. It informs
(35:07):
every other damn decision they make, yep. And trying to
deny that is just foolish.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
The offers and the teams that could be interested. And
I don't want to say everybody, but people were calling
out Buffalo of being that team. I think I said
it on this podcast. I apologize if I didn't and
set it on a show. I think that the Bills
need to focus on defense. And if James Cook wants
fifteen million dollars, see you, yeah exactly, Like so you
(35:38):
talk about now a Buffalo team to kind of shift
gears to there, you know they could be in play
for Miles Garrett and whether Pixar right now with the
first round pick, it wouldn't necessarily hurt them. In that case,
I think it would be a huge play for them
on the defensive side. They'd be able to get that
sort of caliber what they need. But I think that's
the only way you get Josh Allen to a Super
Bowl is you don't surround them with just tons and
(35:59):
tons of Office of weapons. You've got to make sure
that that defense is formidable. And getting Miles Garrett in
this window that you have right now, maybe it may
be difficult in years in the past because of what
you're giving up, but I almost think it would be
worth it for Buffalo to roll the dice on a deal.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
No, absolutely. I mean we watched it thinking they'd be
better down the stretch, right, you got a couple of
guys back from injury. Wasn't enough. Wasn't enough even close?
The James Cook things laughable because you know, I've been
a champion of his on the podcast for a couple
of years. This year he got to his four point
nine yards percure. That's great, But if we've got to
(36:39):
limit him to two hundred carries, that's not a fifteen
million dollars a year running.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No two things can be true at once.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
He's a great running back, and he's not worth fifteen
million dollars, right, I mean, and.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
That's the thing, right, and the other like look again,
like you say, Dan, I don't know who hears all
our podcasts and the three of us we might be
an echo chamber to ourselves. But for those that missed it,
like all those guys with the running game right to
kind of extend that to Buffalo and what decisions they've
got to make, right, money shifted towards the defense, to
try to figure out how to stop the Ravens, how
(37:12):
to stop whatever. The next iteration of the Chiefs is
whatever comes out of the AFC West, because that division's
gonna get a lot better. Don't know about the Raiders,
but the other three teams they're not going anywhere, right,
so including the aforemanchal Chiefs of course. But just to
that end is all those guys that left to go
somewhere else were good to great running backs who went
(37:36):
to good to great situations. Right, Philadelphia's offensive line, Baltimore,
they're talking about expecting to lose Ronnie Stanley. You finally
had your offensive line you've been waiting on for these years.
He finally stayed healthy. And your immediately like, yeah, he's
gonna leave, Like no, no, Derrick Henry's fantastic, But guess what,
(37:57):
you're really fantastic. And we watched it with Barkley. What
was the high like during the Super Bowl pregame show?
It was all the runs, he doesn't get touched and
suddenly it's him in a safety and he's waving at him,
go and see you. It's same thing with Derrick Henry,
same thing with Josh Jacobs in Green Bay. They went
to places that had great infrastructure. You gotta build that first.
(38:19):
And the Bills have a pretty good offensive line. You
can go find another running back at far less than
fifteen million.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Dollars, especially in a historically great draft class.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
For that is absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Ian. The division wise, your Jets, how do you feel
with the Aaron Glenn era beginning? Now you're having competition
with the Patriots and them starting over with Mike vrabel.
I don't know how much we think the Dolphins are
going to take a step forward, Ian.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
But that's a rebuild race. Yes, well, I guess I
don't know what the Jets. Can you really say rebuild
when there's nothing like that? There has to have been
something in the first place. You know, it's it's just build.
It's just they're in a build.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
It's I guess it also just as tough to even
take a gay. I said, what the Jets are going
to do now, because there's just so many questions. But
I don't even know what it's going to be your.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
They don't even know who's going to be going to
be the signal caller, of course. But but but with
the decision to move on from Rogers, you guys know
that I've been for that all along, just because when
you hired Glenn, you made the decision that you're doing
a complete culture reset. So you can't just do like
a half measure, like, Okay, we want to do a
culture reset with Aaron Glenn, but we're going to keep
(39:26):
Rogers around because we think he's our best chance to
win games. It's like, no, are you doing a full
reset or not? Because if you keep Rogers around, it's
his organization, like it or not. So I really really
liked that they were willing to do this. I feel
like it was the right thing.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So which guy do you want if to replace the
stafford aside, let's just push him to the side, because
we I think I'll agree out of everything there, he's
the best option. Well, but beyond him.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Well, Rogers at the end of the day is your
best opportunity to win games. But I don't think that
that's really the goal of next season. I think, like
I said it, I mean, obviously you want to win games,
and obviously you want to make the playoffs, but I
think the main goal is just establishing a new culture
and starting to build this thing from the ground up.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah. I agree with that, And what a shame because
of the talent that is on that team. Yeah, but
I mean I'm curious to see on what moves you make.
Do you think that there's value for Sauce Gardner on that.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Team, value in keeping him?
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, Like, yeah, I trade both him.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
And Wilson, you would see I would keep them because
of what I was saying about building a culture, like
you need the right players in place to do that.
Rogers is one of the wrong players. But I don't
think that just because you were in the building during
this last era means that you aren't capable of being
a building block towards a good culture.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
For Wilson in particular, Just some comments Daniels talking about
some of these other things that you may have already
lost him. Yeah, Rogers back or not. He may have
seen enough in that building the last couple of years and.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
He's already done. If that's the case, part of another build.
If that's the case, then you have to get rid
of him. But obviously they know more than that than
I do, and that than we do. They they can
talk to him, they can get a feel for that
and if he wants to stick stick around, which I
really hope he does. He's he's one of my favorite
players on the team. So I really really hope that
he h what's the word, just kind of gets a
(41:22):
better attitude about the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Now that Rogers is gone.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Let's let's wrap up the AFC talk like this. And sorry,
AFC South, We're just not gonna get to you.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
But oh come on, Trevor Lawrence said, nobody wanted me.
I mean, the Steelers didn't want me.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
How about that draft? That trade story that was that
was exciting at least at least we get some spice
going on.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
You know what we did with it, so that I go,
I just may not have any ounce of truth, like
we said it in the moment, it's like, but it's
fun to theorize about. So let's do this. Someone should
try to trade for Trevor Laurence. Absolutely, get him out
of there.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Let's see what he can do.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
The Jags are the ones to leak it, and Pitzer's like,
how did we get dragged into this? You know thirty
one other teams and you picked us, you know, like,
come on, that's But with the AFC West, I think
there will be a Super Bowl hangover, and I think
there's the Chiefs still could win the AFC West next year.
(42:28):
I wouldn't would have passed him to do that, but
I don't think it's going to be difficult for the
Chiefs to get back to the super Bowl. But the
question is is who wins the race then? Between the
Chargers and the Broncos. You alluded that, you know, we'd
like to include the Raiders, but realistically it's probably not it.
Right now, I think we would all think it's the Chargers.
I think on the surface, because we would think year
(42:49):
two with Jim Harbaugh in them actually getting players because
they didn't have players. Are we all on board with that?
Or am I off base because of the promised Denver
Show this year.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I think part one to the Chargers is what are
they doing on the defensive line? Right? In terms of well,
I guess front seven, right. We talk about Khalil Mack,
we talk about Joey Bosa, we talk about their contracts,
their age, their injury histories, all of those things. So
that's one of those that's kind of festering out there,
and the other is who's that receiver that shows up
(43:22):
to save the day?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yep? Right?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I mean, look, I know all of our friends here
at Fox Sports Radio that have any tangential ties to
the Chargers have already started drawing little I Love t.
Higgins notes in their notebooks or on their rundowns around here.
But beyond that, you know, Keenan Allen's like, I'll only
play in Chicago or go back to Los Angeles. I
(43:46):
don't know, he'd be a nice guy to help move
the chains. Lad McConkey actually finished, I think as a
top twelve or top fourteen wide receiver for PPR purposes,
so you at least found a possession guy. So I
don't know that you need Keenan Allen mac, but certainly
you need another target and to maybe let Justin Harbert
use that army pay you paid so much for him
(44:07):
to stick around with. But certainly the building blocks are there,
especially the offensive line being as settled as it is
with Slater and all.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I don't know where the running game will necessarily be
for Denver. We hope that bow Knicks doesn't have a
sophomore slump, but their defense is the real deal. Advance
Joseph isn't going anywhere, and so you would expect that
defense and that may be the strongest unit of any
of the units for both of those teams. And you're
(44:36):
coming back next year, so Denver is going to be
a part of that equation. You just hope that bow
Knicks can end up taking that next step. But yeah,
to your point, the funny thing about the Chargers and
the wide receiver thing is again because you bring up
t Higgins, it's because that's best available and that's all
that they They just they want something, they want something good.
(44:58):
Is the cocky. Yeah that lad Wikkey was pretty good,
like like he was, and he's not the Michael Crabtree
that you're gonna have on those hardball forty nine Ers teams.
But I think that that's what you need. So you
got to find that guy to be that crabtree guy.
I don't know if T. Higgins is that guy, but
if you're the Chargers, you got to figure out a
(45:20):
way to go find him.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Well, let me run through a couple of guys that
are in the marketplace. I mean, Stevon Digg is a
free agent. You got T Higgins, Keenan Allen, Amari, Cooper
Godwin coming off his injury might be too spicy down
there in Tampa. And you know, and they roll the
dice that they can move on without him. Beyond that,
(45:43):
it's just a lot of jags.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Harrett Wilson, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Well, no, that's what I mean. I'd go and I'd
see what I can package together. I don't know what
kind of pile of picks the Chargers have, as I try.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
To don't worry about it. I wouldn't even be able
to tell you what the Jets would accept at this
point for it.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Anyway, that's a good question. But I mean it's all
philosophical and that's the beauty of these exercises that we
have here.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be a fun, fun offseason.
In looking ahead, I'll tell you one thing that I
really like. I really really like that we don't know
who the number one pick is going to be right now,
not it'll probably leak at some point. But what I
mean by that is it's it's not a rotation of quarterbacks,
like is it Baker Mayfield, is it Sam Darnold? Who
is it? I've seen mock drafts with Travis Hunter one.
(46:34):
I've seen mock drafts drafts with abdual Carter number one.
I've seen them with Cam Wore number one. So just
the whole different areas that it can go. That actually
makes for a fun draft when you're not sure on
the player or even the position, because that has so
many dominoes. So hopefully that'll make things exciting and maybe
can even spice up some trades this offseason.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Well we have the Tennessee GM say you can't pass
on a generational guy. Ian who do you think he
was referring to.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
I've been thinking about that, and while for a while
I thought it was Abdul Carter because he's legitimately just
a freak off the edge, it's Travis Hunter. It has
to be right, because generational you're talking about a guy who,
like how many guys have we ever seen play both
sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
This was going to be this is gonna be my
last word. When Dave Gettlman was the GM of the Giants,
he said the same thing in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
I know what you're gonna say when.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
They were picking number two, and I honestly thought, guys,
I honestly thought he was going to take Quintin Nelson
because that was the only truly like sure thing. When
when Quentin Nelson was coming out of that draft, the
way that he the way that he said it, I'm like,
you know what, that would actually make sense that you're
trying to draft a you know, Hall of Fame sort
of guy. And then who does he end up drafting?
(47:47):
Tae Kwon Barkley. So there was and now we're like, oh,
Gettleman was right. You just happened to do it in
an Eagles uniform. But so I've heard that verbiage before
and I was I was wrong on it one time,
and I don't think I want to be wrong again.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
So I enjoyed the chaos theory. This draft run is
going to be amazing. The combine coming up here in
short order and all the mock drafts and full effect
all our friends in the larger media business that do
forty seven iterations of them, and all of the scuttle
button rumor conjectures, speculations starting with the franchise tags and
(48:24):
then moving on to some of these things like Ian's
jets and so on. Like, there's just so many big
names that potentially can get moved this time around. Again,
we talked about it out here in Los Angeles with
the Rams. If they decide to move on from Stafford,
what has it become? Like? I think it's gonna be
an absolutely fascinating off season. Meanwhile, the Saints are in
(48:47):
the March for Arch, so it's all good and bending
pat and pending trademark bending.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I Mike, you know, as much as I'd love for
you to have that, I think i'm my run down.
I'll tell you what I wrote on Sunday. This was
my line the March for Arch. That's exactly what I wrote. Yes,
there we go.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
We'll have to delight about it.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
We could go have the He's on it. That's that's
I'm good with that. I call them the New New
Orleans Saints. But yeah, hey went on the new New
Orleans Saints. We've got our top sixty draft for twenty
twenty five coming up, plus some other fun episodes, whether
it be content that Mike has on his Sunday show
(49:28):
or even great conversations he does weekday nights with Jason
Smith on five Sports Radio. Also some conversations I had
at the Super Bowl with some of the NFL's star players,
Will Anderson at the Houston Texan stop by. Also got
a chance to speak with Austin Eckler and Brian Robinson.
You'll hear those conversations in so much more in upcoming
episodes of I Want Your Flags. So for Ian Roddy
(49:51):
and Mike Carmen, we hope you enjoyed our look back
at our look ahead, and we'll be back again with
our top sixty draft of twenty twenty five. That's next time,
right your and I Want Your Flex hmm
Host
Mike Harmon
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