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April 2, 2024 36 mins

Muhammad loses the greatest love of his life, while Davis's life continues to shape shift in surprising ways. Also, we speak with a young Louisvillian whose future, through happenstance, was molded by his time with Ali.

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Art Varkington



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NBC Universal


Forever Films



Muhammad Ali

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
November ninety four, driving through eastern Kentucky on the way
to hang with Ali and Louisville, first time since Lynn
and I sold the house and bought one in Winston Salem.
A lot of change over the past couple of years
that house in Winston, I swear, I'm starting to think
some homes are unlucky, their.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Own kind of haunted.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Mohammad has seen serious change too, and I'm anxious to
see how he's coping, while also hoping to shake a
few ghosts out of my bloodstream. Tooling down I sixty four,
watching bare naked trees in brown fills on both my
left and right, roving the FM dial in search of

cleansing sounds, I land on Mountain Stage, a syndicated Americana
show coming live from free Eadam Hall in Louisville this week,
featuring a favorite of Lens when we were living in Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Bruce Hornsby and the Range.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Happy to be back in town, Hornsby says, here's a
Louisville tone across the river, the Great Ohio River. I
want to dedicate this song to Louisville's own, the great
Mohammed Ali.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Dude, Ali is my hero, the person that I looked
up to growing up in Louisville, Kentucky. He allowed me
to believe that I could achieve almost anything I set
my mind to. I just have to get off my
button do it.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's Justin Cornwell, a young talented actor who's been big
time motivated by Mohammad Ahweih.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah Louisville. He is not only the most famous person
that ever lived in Louisville, but part of the fabric
of the city. When we were honorary captains for the
Louisville Sugar Bowl against Florida thirteen, two thousand and thirteen,

he was so glad to be there for the city,
as was I, but I was even happier just to
be around him.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
And this is Tom Jackson, NFL VET and Hall of
Fame sports commentator who, despite not being starstruck by anybody,
was wowed by Mohammad Ali.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Hanging on to him and holding him by the arm.
I don't even remember the toss of the coin. I
don't remember who won it, who got the ball first.
The only thing I was thinking is you're holding on
to Mohammad Ali, You're helping him, and you're never gonna

forget it. You're never gonna forget it as long as
you live.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
When I was a young boy who'd lost his mom,
I desperately wanted to belong. I wanted to be made
whole again. And through my experiences with Ali and by
finding an audience for my writing, now I know that
I do belong, but also that I have all along.

All things vibrate, all things are connected. How could it
be otherwise? We seek connection, not recognizing there's nothing we
need to do, the shape of tree trunks and branches,
the form of our limbs and torsos, the rhythms I

feel rotating inside me, the shape of hurricanes and of galaxies,
the orbits of planets and of neutrons, so very similar.
Everything is at the center rocks, pig shit, penises, bsycles, pumpkins, breast, electrons, stars,

galaxy clusters, These cold fingers us everything, the gold we
wear around our fingers and necks, the calcium that makes
up our bones, both from the marrow of long ago
exploded stars. We are, each of us, even in the strictest,

most literal sense, the very stuff of the cosmos. Yet
that recognition doesn't make things New Age easy, ain't nothing easy.
While I'm saying these words, star systems are getting gobbled

up by black hole galaxies right now are being eaten
by other galaxies and own our shimmering blue marble dictators
breathe and laugh and destroy, and all the while, this
remarkable man, Mohammad Ali, is slowly being eaten alive by

Parkinson's disease. Yet everywhere we look, all around us and
inside us, there is beauty and magic. Episode seven, All
things vibrate. Ali's mom, Missus Odessa Grady Clay, Mama Bird,

dies in August nineteen ninety four. Mohammed was closer to
his mom than to anybody else. Her death hits him
deep and hard. In November, I watched the Michael Moore
George Foreman World Heavyweight Championship out with Ali in a

suite at the Old Brown Hotel in Louisville. More Foreman
is the only boxing match I've seen in a year.
I just can't watch them anymore. I've stopped writing about
people who punch each other in the head. This past summer,
I managed to sell a couple pieces of short fiction,
and I'm damned happy about that. More recently, I've chosen

not to be working, hoping to rest and heal up.
Lynn and I are divorcing. I understand what she finds
so frustrating about me and about our lives together. She
sees me on TV or hears me on the radio

acting like hot shit, she says, time and again, believing
the last word of that is true of me, if
not the first or the third. Yes, ma'am, I'm hot shit,
or at least I'm shit, she thinks.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
And all the.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Time she's getting more and more burned up that I
can't pay the bills like people who work in a
real profession. I just don't have a romance any longer.
For the physical jabbing of boxing and martial art, it's
time to grow out of a relationship where that emotional
jabbing has been regarded as susceptible behavior. So here I

am with Grandpappy Ali again, hoping my life will fall
back into shape. I haven't seen Ali in a long time,
mostly because magazine and newspaper editors no longer pay my
expenses to hang out with him.

Speaker 2 (07:53):

Speaker 1 (07:54):
During this visit in Louisville, Ali looks removed, as if
from another dimension, as if he's staring at the world
from the other side of a thick pane of glass.
Early today we move from appearance to appearance. There are
globules of drool on Ali's bottom lip. When he notices them,

he sucks on his lip, bends his head, tugs at
the left lapel of his suit jacket, and discreetly catches
spittle near the inside breast pocket beside a label sewn
into the jacket lining the greatest. The label reads in

red Arabic style stitching. Now, while we're watching the fight,
and I'm watching Ali intently watch the fight, Muhammed is
lying on the bed. I'm sitting in a chair beside him.
In the ring, Foreman is wearing the faded and shabby

red and blue trunks he'd worn in his knockout lost
to Ali twenty years before, trailing on every judge's scorecard
in the eleventh round, forming Ko's more with a magically
timed overhand right to the jaw. At forty six years old,

Reverend George has become the oldest ever world's heavyweight champion.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Job, I'm glad for him, glad.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
For him, Ali says, when I ask what he feels.
I notice Ali's wearing a new timepiece. I suppose he
broke the last one. He must have broke the last
one playing with someone somewhere, everyone everywhere, always playing, always
throwing punches. Every watch he's worn has had a classic, clear,

round face, clear face that protects to watch his sweeping
hands and that remind ahwih, We're on a rotating dust mode,
speeding through the vast fast cosmos.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Justin Cornwell has a deep connection to Muhammad Ali. He
grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, volunteered at the Muhammad Ali Center,
and graduated from Eastern High School before studying at the
University of Louisville. He began his professional acting career at
the Chicago Shakespeare Theater. Justin appeared on popular television shows
such as Chicago PD and Empire before being cast with

the late Bill Paxton in the CBS series Training Day.
He later was seen in NBC's The In Between the
Netflix film Jingle Jangle, a Christmas Story. Almost impossible to
have grown up in Louisville and have spent time with
Muhammad Ali and not feel the impact of the great man.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Ali is my hero, the person that I looked up
to growing up in Louisville.

Speaker 2 (11:12):

Speaker 3 (11:13):
He allowed me to believe that I could achieve almost
anything I set my mind to. I just have to
get off my button, do it.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
You must have some full circle feeling having volunteered at
the Ali Center as a teenager and then getting to
hang out and spend time with Ali.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Walking into the Ali Center is an amazing experience. I'm
looking at all of the exhibits and I'm looking at
this beautiful mural and I'm painting this mural with Ali's
face on it and with my face on it right
there in the halls of the Ali Center. It still
stands right now. And here comes Muhammad Ali walking inside

with his entourage, and it was like watching a piece
of history walk And we got to go into this
back room and we hung out. We were just kind
of chilling there and I see Ali and he's just
smiling and he's looking at the kids, and got to

take this picture with him. After that, I felt linked
to Muhammad Ali. Every time I go back to Louisville,
I'm looking at that mural. I'm walking in once again
into the Muhammad Ali Center. It's my home, a place
where my name still says some years later, I'm going
through the audition process for the show. The show is
called In This Corner Cashius Clay was written by an

amazing playwright named Adris Goodwin, and Idris loved Ali as
much as I did. I'm looking at myself in the mirror,
and I'm thinking, I can be Muhammed Ali. I could
do the workout, so I could do whatever I had
to do. He felt like he was already in my
bones a little bit, just from having painted that mural
and hanging out with them at the Holly Center. I

studied every night, poured my sweat into trying to sound
like him and trying to move him and getting the
words right. And I walked into the audition, into this
big auditorium, and I could see the other guys who
looked a little bit more like Ali than I did.
Maybe they had his complexion down a little bit, but
I knew that they couldn't have embodied what I would embody.

It couldn't mean as much to them as it meant
to me. I wasn't nervous at all. I got the job,
and when they discovered that I'm from Louisville, that I
had worked at the Muhammad Ali Center, every news outlet
ran with that The Louisville Son returns as Ali and
I had such an amazing welcome back home. It was
some of the most amazing experiences I've ever had working

as an artist. I got to meet his brother, who
would tell me how Ali walked when he was a kid,
how Ali talked when he was a kid.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Nice, kind, sweet, loving, jolly, You'd like to laugh and play.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
He would share these anecdotes.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
The love he as a child, he carried it of
to adulthood. He's remained the same, but got struggled with
the only.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Guy talking to Ali through him.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
I got to hang out with Muhammad Ali almostly. I
had dinner at his house and I brought my brother.
We sat down on the couch and ate egg salad
and Gritson. Sat there on the lazy board next to
Muhammed Ali and watched Law and Order. That maybe one

of the greatest memories I had because it was human,
the thing that we all do, we just have dinner
with our family and watch television. It gave me such
a confidence just sitting next to him, and it lasted
through to the next year when I had the breakout
moment of my career. My first television show in La.
Warner Brothers called me and said, you got to come

out here to La tomorrow. I go out there, and
I realized that all of the bravado that I put on.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Was starting to shape. When I walked into the.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Room, another big auditorium, just like when I auditioned for Ali,
but this time it was a bunch of Hollywood execs
and studio heads. It felt overwhelming and I shook. I
literally was trembling as I was saying the words and

I and I felt like, oh no, I blew this.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
This was my chance, and I blew it.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
I walked out of the audition and it kept me
there for two hours while they auditioned everybody else, and
then everyone left and they came back out and they said,
justin You're the person we want, but we literally see
you shaking in your audition. And the only thing I
could think of was Ali, I'm the greatest.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I'm the greatest.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
It made me feel like he was with me in
those moments, because back when I was having dinner with him,
hanging out on the lazy Boy, I remember walked in,
he looked at me and he smiled, his eyes got big,
and he reached out his hand and he said, I
almost like I got to get for you. I got
something to give you, go ahead and take it. I
wrapped my hand around his hand, and he looked like

he didn't have any strength left in his body. But
when he grabbed my hand, he squeezed it and I
felt a rush of energy. He was giving me the
pieces of his spirit. He was infusing my spirit with
the thing that made him unstoppable. It wasn't just confidence,
it was also a knowledge of self to understand that
you are me, I'm you. We are the same one.
At this moment, you were one. You are Muhammad Ali.

And then I had to go and actually be Muhammad
Ali on stage. So it did feel like a one
to one transference of energy directly to me. I summoned that.
I walked around the lot of Warner Brothers. I've never
been to Los Angeles in my life. I've been working
to be an actor my entire life, and this was
the town that was going to make or break my career.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
This was it.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
I walked around and I looked at those lots of
Warner Brothers, and I had to forget about the pedestal
that I put everything on, and I had to remember
the humanity that Ali showed me, the confidence that I
could be great. And I took that confidence, and I
walked back into that room and I gave another audition
that was so good they decided that I didn't need

to do another test. I ended up starring in the
show only three days later. It was a beautiful time.
I was able to find confidence, and I wouldn't have
found it without trying to walk in Ali's footsteps, not
only the footsteps of his mentality, but his humanity as well.
I'm still walking in his footsteps today. I ended up
working with in the organization called Kids in the Spotlight.

What we do is we help kids from the foster
care system who would have never had the kind of
opportunities that I had with great teachers, to get them
into a position where they can learn how to act
and direct and all these skills, and work with professionals
like myself, the whole gamut of amazing people. I feel
a responsibility to transfer my energy. You get to be great,

but you don't get to be great. Tell someone else
that they're great, and reach out your hand.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
One of the most common questions I get is among
all the on their personalities you've worked with, Who's your favorite?
The answer is easy. I had the great pleasure of
being Tom Jackson's producer, covering the NFL for ESPN from
nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety two. He was recognized
by the Pro Football Hall of Fame in twenty fifteen

when he received the Pete Roselle Radio and Television Award
for his longtime exceptional coverage of professional football. In two
thousand and nine, Tom won an Emmy Award as the
Outstanding Studio Analyst, and in nineteen ninety six he won
the Cable Ace Award in the same category. Prior to
his successes in sports television, Tom was a three time

Pro Bowl linebacker for the Denver Broncos. During fourteen NFL seasons,
he led the Broncos to the Super Bowl twice in
nineteen eighty six. A member of the Bronx Goes Ring
of Fame, Tom was the franchise leader in seasons played
and games played at the time of his retirement. He
was named by his teammates Denver's defensive MVP three times

in the team's Most Inspirational Players six years in a row,
and if it sounds as if I'm biased on the topic.
That's because I am guilty ist charged TJ. Welcome to
the podcast.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Thanks Sport, thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
Well, it's my pleasure. And just to get the nickname
out of the way, my nickname at ESPN was Sport.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
You'll always be Sport to me.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
I know I'm in the company of one of my
old colleagues when I hear that. So, the last time
I covered a Super Bowl was in nineteen ninety four
in Atlanta, and the Friday before the game, I came
to you with a special invitation. Pick up the story
from there.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, I can't remember exactly where we were, but I
can definitely remember the question. You said, how would you
like to have lunch with Mohammad Ali? And how would
I like to have bunch with Mohammad Ali? Yes, I
would love to do that. You set that up and
I actually found it hard to believe. I was like,

how's it going to happen? And he said, he's going
to be in town and you can meet him for lunch,
and I was in all in.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Well, that was one of my gifts to you for
all the fun we had together.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's great.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
The good work we did together, and the laughs and
all that. I knew it would mean a lot to you.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
It's a story of growing up with someone who seems
to be so different than all the rest of us.
I'm not starstruck by people. I'm just not. I was
starstruck when it came to Ali. There's something about him.
If you have this image of what you think he is,
and then when you meet him, he's bigger than that.

He's a bigger personality. He's a bigger human being. He
does seem different, and then everything that goes on around
him verifies that for you. When we did finally meet
for lunch, by the time he left the restaurant, there
were hundreds of people who had gathered outside the restaurant

because they knew that he was there. Howard Bingham who
was there at the lunch as well, and as we
got through with the lunch, he was like, Tom, you
probably want to you know, because we had some assignments
and stuff to do. He said, you probably should go

on and go because all of those hundreds of people
who are outside this restaurant, Ali is going to sign
all of their autographs, He's going to meet them, he's
going to shake hands with them. He's going to take
pictures with them because he will not leave anyone out

there wanting to meet him or have something signed. He's
not going to let him walk away disappointed. So it's
going to take some time. And I just again, I
just thought, Wow, he's a different human being. I asked
the question, how do people know where he is? And

the answer is, somebody knows where he is all the time.
I think he liked it. He enjoyed people. His life
was so public, but that privacy that I felt talking
to him and having a chance to have a conversation

with him was extraordinary. I always remember the very first
thing he ever said to me. We sat down and
he looked at me and he went, Joe Frasier.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
I'm certain he was familiar with you from television, and
maybe he didn't put two and two together. When I
said Tom played football for Louisville, he and Lonnie their
eyes kind of popped up and then it clicked right.
And yes, yes, friends of Muhammad will tell you if
there's a Louisville connection, you're in.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, Louisville not only the most famous person that ever
lived in Louisville, but part of the fabric of the city.
And yeah, I know that when we were honorary captains
for the Louisville Sugar Bowl against Florida two thousand and thirteen.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
Seconds to start again, to Rolford touchdown, all that it
could not have been a better start.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
For the Cardinals. He was so glad to be there
for the city, as was I, but I was even
happier just to be around him. I was like, I'm
gonna get to be around Ali again, and my daughter's
gonna get to be around Ali. So this is going
to be the experience of a lifetime. She's gonna remember

it forever. I almost enjoyed that more than me being
around him. And I know that sounds odd, but when
your kids get a chance to experience something that you
know is important and you don't know exactly how they're
going to accept it. She's a different generation than Ali. Yes,

she's heard about him from me. In my head, I'm like,
is she going to understand who this man is? Is
she really going to get it? And before we actually
met him, we had arrived at the stadium. We had
some people taking us through some different areas and she

turned to me and she said, am I going to
get a chance to meet Ali. I said, I don't know.
I said, what I'll tell you is this. I said,
They're going to set up us going out to the
field in some way, shape or form, and it's gonna
be whatever he wants. I said. If he wants to stay,

then he'll stay, and if he wants to leave, they
will make arrangements for him to leave. They're going to
do whatever it is that he wants to do. He's
just unique. What he was doing seems so outside the
realm of the norm. That he was alone. That's one

of the things I respect most about him me. He
didn't take his cues from anybody. They took us finally
down to the locker room that led out to the field,
and when we walked into that locker room, I'll leave
us sitting there. From that moment on, Taylor literally was
mesmerized by what she felt, what she saw, the interaction

with him. It came time for us to go out
on for the toss of the coin, and Lonnie asked me,
when he gets out there, he had time sometime maintaining
his balance, would you mind holding him? The feeling even
right now is one of I don't even know where

to put it. I was so honored that she would
ask me, and I told her that that it would
be an honor for me. I've never forgotten it. It's
one of the great moments in my life, hanging on
to him and holding him by the arm. I don't
even remember the toss of the coin. I don't remember

who woned, who got the ball first. The only thing
I was thinking is, you're holding on to Muhammad Ali.
You're helping him, and you're never going to forget it.
You're never gonna forget it as long as you live.
I felt such a sense of pride. I had to

steal myself against tears in that moment. Oh my goodness,
would I and just making sure that he's okay. Yeah,
that's the moment. He ended up staying for the game.
Taylor had a chance to sit right next to him,
which I will tell you it might have been the
line of the night. She's having a great time, Mohammed's

having a great time, and Lonnie comes over to me,
and she turns to me and she goes. You know,
he still likes to interact with a pretty girl every now.
And we stepped back into the hotel room, and Taylor

turns to me and she said, Dad, it's like being
with royalty. She goes being with him was like being
with royalty, and I told her, I said, he is royalty.
He is royal in every way and treated as such.
And there's nobody who doesn't feel it when you're around him.

If he doesn't say anything, if he doesn't say if
he doesn't say a thing, it makes no difference. It's
just that you realize you're in the midst of greatness.
My wife Jennifer had a chance to meet him at
a seventieth birthday party out in Arizona, and I told

her before he and Lannie arrived. Because we were there
for four days. It was a celebration of Ali's birthday,
so there were a number of people who spoke and
I was asked. They said, would you speak last, And
I said sure, but it's the kind of thing that
you want to get right. And I had thought about
it quite a bit. I got out there and I

told him, I said, I want to tell you about
the first time that I heard your voice. That's the
way I started it. February twenty fifth, sixty four, and
I said, I told him, I'm laying in bed with
my dad. I don't know actually anything about you, I said,

I'm just laying in bed with my dad and knowing
that Sonny Liston is supposed to beat somebody else up
and move on to the next opponent, I said, And
we're listening to the fight on a radio, wasn't on TV.
Life metaphorm like clown. I said, you win the fight,

and I heard your voice. Then you were screaming me
I'm handsome, I'm fat, I'm pretty and can't possibly be
beaten at the top of your lungs. That how pretty
you were, how you were the greatest fighter of all time,
how you shook up the world, How nobody should ever

doubt you again, no matter what. And I told him,
I said, something inside me was touched, like millions of
other kids just like me, the young African American black kid.
I had never heard a black man talk like that.

And then there was my dad, completely other generation. My
dad turned to me and he goes, he's crazy, and
that's what I wanted him to know. That was the
beginning of the relationship. For many, many kids, many many
young people. We all experienced the same thing. You came
out and you were like, I am this, I am different.

I am going to be boastful about who I am.
I am going to give confidence to people who don't
have it. I'm gonna make people feel good. And that's
what he did for me. And I told my wife Jennifer,
I said, you should prepare yourself before he gets here.

I said, because you cannot imagine the emotion. There's about
three hundred people. I said, you're going to see some
emotion that you have not seen before that's going to
be exhibited toward him as soon as he gets here.
And sure enough he comes in. They wheeled him in.

He's in a wheelchair, and people broke down in tears,
and not tears of sadness. I'm talking about just an
overflow of emotion. People who had young kids who were
there at this thing, who brought them over so that

Ali could touch them. There was a couple of babies
in the area. People brought those babies over to touch him,
as if he was an apostle. Jen had tears coming
out of her eyes, and I told her, I said,
I knew what it was going to be because I

have felt it myself. You can't help but feel it.
And he lives with it all the time. That night,
I don't know that he said one word the entire night.
He was just sitting there, and yet there was all
of this emotion around him. That's what I felt. That's

what I felt. Here's what I would say. There's something
spiritual about him. I can't explain it. I don't know
what it is. There's something spiritual if that word has
the meaning that it's supposed to have, god like, not God,
but god like, emulating something spiritual in many ways, that's

what I felt about him.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
How does he impact your life today? Do you still
think about him a lot?

Speaker 2 (33:12):
The thing that he passed on and try to be
straight with people. It's not always easy because there's always
different things that get involved in life. Even when you
mentioned my retirement, we had a pretty good thing going
around the time I retired, and I remember having a
conversation with a few people and saying, yeah, but what

I would rather be doing is hanging out with the girls.
I don't feel the necessity to sit there in the
studio for the next ten years. And you know, I'm
doing all right and feels good to do what I
want to do. I don't have to be what anybody

wants me to be. I can just be who I
want to be. There's ever a message that he gave us.
It couldn't have been stated more simply. Sometimes the most
complicated issues are solved in very simple statements. That's what
that felt like to me. He said such simplistic things.
But if you take it and you break it down,

there's just no mistaking the straightforwardness of it. So hopefully
that's how it passes on.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
In our final episode of the Tao of Muhammad Ali,
Ali transforms my son Isaac's life.

Speaker 6 (34:42):
My father has been a lifetime living in the doubt
if Ali in the footsteps. Through meeting him, you open
doors that you never would have. You became a writer,
but Ali gave you the confidence to follow that dream.
It also trickled down to me the way that I've
been in fluid by you and the life that you've led,

the way that you've used writing that means everything.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
We'll explore Ali's influence on today's generation, all that and more.
Stay tuned. The Doao of Muhammad Ali is produced by
Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcast and hosted by me Davis Miller.
My co host is Craig Mortally, Kara Welker, Mark Bouch,

Nathan Kloke, Derek Jennings and Little Woe Me. Davis Miller
are executive producers, produced by Craig Mortali, sound design and
mixing by Juan Borda, music by Djsparr and introducing a
very good pal of mine Isaac Miller, and also Luminescence

track Nuage. Visit Luminescent music dot com to check out
more from the band.
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The Nikki Glaser Podcast

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.


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