April 9, 2024 • 49 mins
In our final episode, Ali transforms the life of Davis's son Isaac. We explore Ali's influence on today's generation.
This episode contains information and audio from the following sources: ITV CBS BBC Associated Press 7 News ABC News CBS BBC NBC OWN PBSSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This episode contains information and audio from the following sources: ITV CBS BBC Associated Press 7 News ABC News CBS BBC NBC OWN PBSSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's a few days after January seventeenth, nineteen ninety two,
Mohammad's fiftieth birthday. In my fortieth, I brought my six
year old son, Isaac with me and our old Volvo
to visit the champ at his farm in Michigan because
I wanted Isaac to meet Ali, and Ali the perennial
(00:26):
cosmic child to play with Isaac. But it's also because
I'm hoping to expose Isaac to Mohammad's magic, to provide
him with some kind of safe place inside him, so
that Isaac won't have as tough a life as I had.
(00:47):
While we've been at the farm, Ali has played with
Isaac hour after hour, doing magic tricks, scaring him with
ghost stories, chasing him around the house, hiding behind furniture,
jumping out to Ticklizac. I used to sort of wonder
when I was gonna quit playing, Ali says, used to
sort of worry about it. Now I know I'm never
(01:09):
gonna quip. All through the time we've been at the farm,
the wind has been rattling the branches of trees. It's
been snowing just enough to make the driveway slippery. Mohammed
has picked up his baby's son As'ad, holding him in
his arms. He's escorted us out to the car, and
(01:29):
Mohammad's wearing his short sleeve shirt and his slick soled
city shoes leather soles. His balance is not good, maybe
especially holding a sod, and I'm concerned he might fall
and fall with the baby. As I turned the key
in the ignition, Muhammad closes our doors. There's a video
(01:50):
camera in the back seat. I grab it and push
the power button. Ali sees the camera opens Isaac's door,
snatching up my son.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
There's the next champion, the great grave hope.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Did a great white help Isaac.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
This man will win the crown in two thy twenty.
Look at the face.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Two thousand and twenty.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
He will be the new way.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
And then I said, dope, I said, why, I will
be the manager.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
I mean ninety three.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
We will be the Grays that day of all.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The greatest of all times. Ali places my laughing son
back in his seat, drops aside to the ground, holds
his hand while pointing at the lens of the camera.
Watch my feet, he says. He turns his back to Isaac,
the camera and me, and takes about ten shuffling great
(02:58):
grandfatherly step. There's a moment when the car engine seems
to stop, the wind doesn't move, the air isn't cold.
Looking over his left shoulder, Ali raises his arms perpendicular
to his sides.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh, I show you the power of the mine, powerful concentration.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Then he levitates about three inches above the snowy driveway.
And although I've seen him perform this illusion many many times,
I turned to my son and smile as the most
famous man in the world rises from the earth once more.
(03:53):
What is a moment? How is it captured? Beat of
a shudder? What does this fraction of a second mean?
To Muhammad Ali, but decked in all white, as he
leans across to fake kiss me on the cheek, This glowing,
(04:14):
remarkable being whose name will likely be known and shared
long after he and you and I cease to breathe
and eat and fuck and sleep and dream. Trillions of
microorganisms live less than one second. Hundreds of blind greenland
(04:35):
sharks swimming right now in frigid, murky northern oceans have
been living for up to five hundred years. Bristle com
pines high up on arid Western American mountains, more than
five thousand humans developed written language and music fifty five
(05:00):
one hundred years before you and I were born. Homo sapiens. We,
all of us, our direct ancestors, have existed for roughly
three hundred millennia. Life on our planet three point seven
billion years. Stars, solar systems, and galaxies swirl and evolve,
(05:21):
the metamorphose and die over tens of billions of years.
Everywhere we look, everyone in, everything we've known or will
ever know, is composed of atoms from stars that died
billions of years before our sun came to exist. My
friend Muhammad Ali has told me time and time again
(05:45):
that life ain't nothing but a vapor. These things said,
what in the world could this dream of a moment
actually mean? This moment in which I'm standing in one
of a thirty five millimeter camera beside the greatest of
all times? Episode eight, We're all ghosts magic, Muhammad Ali's magic,
(06:23):
fathers and sons magic. I think about how many families
must have been influenced by Mohammed. I've been lucky enough
to see some of that in person, where you can
see the generation somebody who Mohammad knew back in the
sixties or seventies and it's the grandkids that are now
hanging out with him. The last time I saw Rothmand
(06:48):
after Mohammad passed, I said to him, man, you're looking
more like your brother. I'm a very, very emotion person.
I'm missing I'm about to cry. He just got to
these huge tears and just started weeping. It makes me
think about missing my own dad and how at the
moment of his death I felt him pass into me
(07:10):
and it startled me. I did not expect that he
became part of me. He entered me, and he's still there.
I'm pretty darn happy right where I am and what
I've got with my own kids, but boy, I sure
do wish i'd had it with my father as well.
I was fortunate to be with Mohammed and Cash, his dad,
(07:31):
Cashius Marcellus Clee Senior, on one of the last times
Mohammed saw Cash. You could see Mohammed become the father
in many respects. Cash was much smaller than Mohammed. He
was basically I guess my size, and he draped his
arm around his father's shoulder while we were standing there,
(07:53):
and they walked down a sidewalk away from me where
I'm just watching their backs. I had the feeling of
closure to it, a piece of art, even, and it
made me think about my own relationship with my dad.
Years later, I consider that, and I can see myself
(08:14):
with Isaac. These generations his fathers and sons stuff dads
are fairly stoic and removed, and I feel very fortunate
that I'm not Mohammed with young As'ad became a quite
good father earlier when he was boxing, when he was
the world's most celebrated person and very seldom at home.
(08:35):
He wasn't He was tender with his kids, but he
wasn't necessarily there to be available with a sad. Mohammed
told me that he wanted to be there for his son,
and he was with Isaac everywhere we went with Mohammed.
Mohammed made sure that if we were in a car
that Isaac was on his lap the whole time, would
(08:57):
be right next to him, and Muhammed always wanted to
go somewhere. The thing that strikes me time and time
again is that the very first time Isaac saw him,
Mohammed pointed to both of us and up at me,
then down at Isaac. You'll remember this when you're an
old old man and guess what I'm about there now.
(09:18):
And indeed it's deep inside me that moment. Isaac talks
about it all the time. It's extraordinary that way. Today
we've had my best pal in the world with us,
my son Isaac, who in some way or another thinks
(09:41):
of Muhammad Ali as uncle Ali, uncle Mohammed, And it'd
be great to just sort of have a little remembrance
with my man here and share our adventure with Ali.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Well, yeah, you'd stop did school to pick me up,
and I didn't really know why you came in. You said, hey,
we're going on a road trip. I was usually down
to go anywhere. You were famous for jumping in the
car and taking road trips was always something fun on
the other end of it, or just spending time.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
With you in the car.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
We hop in the car and you would just go
hours and hours talking, listening to music, playing road games
like the license Plate game and counting cows. I want
to say. We stopped in Louisville. We went and visited
Ali's mother. It struck me that that Missus Clay's house
was just so modest. It was just like neighbored right
(10:39):
next to you. Down the street. I don't think she
was doing well. She may have been just kind of
sitting in a chair, and she was pleasant, very sweet.
We packed up and kept on going and ended up
in varying springs and we pull up to Ali's farm
at the gate. At this point, you still hadn't really
told me who's seeing it out? When the intercom said
(11:01):
that Ali I was not there yet and to come
back tomorrow. So we stay the night in a hotel
and came back the next day and we show up
at the house and Lannie invites us in with her
big ground smile and face, all freckles and all, and
invited us in for tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwich.
Is just like a neighbor or family member. Then a
(11:22):
casad Ali and Lonnie's son is there. I think he's two.
I'm six years old, but he's already as big as
I am. And we're all just hanging out and eating.
Then Ali shuffles down the stairs. This is my first
time meeting Ali, and very different than what I remember
seeing in those old fights that we used to watch
(11:43):
up in the attic at the Miller Street house.
Speaker 8 (11:45):
He was just.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
Glowing and vibrant and fast, watching him move and wondering, gosh,
is he gonna fall down? But then he shuffles over
and picks me right up, starts playing around, growling in
my ear up, just like you would have an easter
or nephew or grandson. And that's the vibe that I got.
(12:06):
Was like I was at my grandparents house seeing Ali
like that, very different than what I'd seen on tapes.
It was striking, but you're a kid, You're going with
the flow. He had this fake thumb with this red handkerchief,
and I remember him showing me a sleight of hand
stuff and of course I know how that works now,
(12:27):
but I was like totally enthralled by that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you remember him chasing you around the house, physically
chasing you around the room?
Speaker 7 (12:38):
People, Well, yeah, he did this like Frankenstein kind of thing.
And I'm running around the couch and he'd stick his
arms out like he was Frankenstein and grown. It's like
you're playing with another kid, really big kid.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That was Ali. Do you remember him picking you up
to record and the things he said.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
He told me I was going to be the champion
in twenty twenty, that I'd be king of the world
or something along those lines. I used to kind of
feel as though that was some bit of prophecy, and
I wondered about it. Twenty twenty rolled around, and I'm like, man,
what is this year going to bring?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Do you remember the levitation?
Speaker 7 (13:21):
Ali was so good with his illusions, even at that point,
which is striking for somebody who has Parkinson's because their
movements aren't very fluid and they have balance issues. Parkinson
shrinks everything right. It makes it hard to do fine
motor movements. And Ali was so good at that kind
of stuff. It was just incredible allowing us to come
(13:41):
up there and hang out with him and his family
over that course of two days, you know, I just
developed this close connection with him. I remember getting back
in the car and he had walked us outside and
we stood and talked in the driveway for a few minutes,
but it was cold. We weren't going to hang out
too long. He packed me up up in the car,
and I want to say, he put me in front seat.
(14:02):
We're packed up, and we're ready to go, and you
get in the car and started up and you start
driving away. And I don't know what it was, but
something compelled me to unbuckle the seat belt and climb
over the seat. And I remember getting in the back
of the station wagon and looking through the back glass
and I wasn't even looking at you, but you just
sensed something. But you sense that I was emotional and
(14:25):
I was crying, and I mean I was just tears
kind of running down my face. And he said, what's
going on, buddy, And I said, it just doesn't make
sense how something like that can happen to some of
as cool as Alis as kind. That whole experience certainly
carries with me. I'm a physical therapist assistant, so I
(14:46):
treat people who had surgeries or they've got balance issues.
I get flashbacks of Ali, and the compassion just flows
through me, and I try to make deeper connections with people.
That experience, for me was special. It's always striking to
me that everybody, young or old, all have these stories.
Somehow Ali has affected their life or inspired them in
(15:10):
one way or another.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I remember that first experience was a field trip. It
had to be educational.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
Yeah, we got back and I don't think I was
really supposed to miss school, but you had a really
interesting way of pulling it off. With my teachers and
basically setting up a show and tell kind of day
where we I think we even brought that video, that
VHS tape, then showed them the VHS tape of Ali.
We talked about that experience and talked about Ali, and
(15:39):
kids drew up these cards, drew pictures for him. I
hope that those got to them. And for weeks after that,
these kids were out there throwing punches at each other.
And you know, I am the greatest. It was funny.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Those cards. I mailed them, and I know that Muhammad
got them. I set yours aside a little differently. You
may not remember the one you made. Do you remember
the drawing you made for him? No, I don't. And
he mailed it back, and he mailed back one that
I've never given you, that he drew. Maybe this will
be a good time to give it to you.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
OHI the artist. His dad was a painter. Brother Rochman
is a painter, and Muhammad was a pretty good sketcher.
He loved to do these little cartoon drawings. And you
did a little cartoon drawing of him in a blue
ballpoint pen and he's in the center of the ring,
and you wrote it as Mohammed, let me spell with
the t and you put Muhammad the winner in a
(16:42):
cartoon bubble beside his head with his arms over his head.
I think you may have drawn the guy flat beside
him as the loser.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I'm getting some slight memory of this now.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, Muhammad the winner you drew who spectators kind of
around the ring. Well, Mohammad did the same thing what
he sent you back that I've never shown you his
own drawing of himself in a ring. Gosh and love, Mohammed.
I'll frame it and give it to you, oh Man.
Speaker 7 (17:14):
Yeah, no, I'm anxious now, Hi, Craig.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
I have fun memories of time spent with my dad
and his dad, my grandfather, who I was very close to,
and I'm getting a little choked up talking about it.
I mean, it must have been wonderful for you to
share this experience with your dad.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
I don't have children, but I feel as though if
I did have children, I would definitely want to try
to create a similar experience somehow.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I think for me, I always wanted to make your
world larger and you did.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Yeah, you definitely did that. That wasn't the only road
trip that we went on. He would just pick up
and get in the car and go to the mountains,
and we did that fairly often, and I was always ready.
I wanted to see what was out there that expanded
my worldview, especially spending time with Ali expanded my worldview.
He was of a different culture, of a different religion.
(18:16):
That was a profound moment because I'd only had exposure
to the world within my own four walls and within
my small city that I live in and my neighborhood.
And getting out like that it makes me want to
do that now more. Just like you stopping on your
way through Louisville, you didn't know what was going to
(18:36):
come next when you met Ali and developed a personal
relationship with him, and you never would have had these
experiences had you not taken that risk.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It is a risk.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
That's what I take with me when I'm out there
as a musician.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Now.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
I talk to everybody that experienced helped me develop relationships
to take me places that I may have never gotten
a chance to go otherwise.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I don't think I would have done that had Muhammad
Ali not been in my life from a distance as
a kid and then as an adult. I don't think
I would have been that adventurous.
Speaker 9 (19:11):
What does it mean to you that Ali had such
a profound impact on your father's life.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
It means everything. He's spent a lifetime living in the doubt.
If Ali that's the way of that's in the footsteps.
Through meeting him, you opened doors that you never would have.
You followed your dream, you became a writer. Ali gave
you the confidence to follow that dream, and that means everything.
(19:41):
It also trickled down to me the way that I've
been influenced by you and the life that you've led,
the way that you've used writing as It inspired me
to read a lot as a kid, and I feel
like that helped a lot, just expanding your mind and
opening doors that never would have been opened otherwise.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
My dad.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
I think spent time with him in early twenty sixteen,
maybe January or February, so this was only a few
months before he passed. He was a bit of a shell,
but there was still spark. I know what it does
to you, It just literally sucks the life out of you.
It's just an incredible that he did, and to travel
to all these places and meet with people constantly, because
(20:24):
you're wiped when you have Parkinson's. You're fighting that rigidity
all day and it just takes so much out of you.
To see that he was still very actively a humanitarian.
Was incredible.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
So he was dead on when he said, when you're
an old man, you're going to remember this.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 9 (20:52):
To not only play, but to compose some music for
this series dedicated to Ali. How much of a who
does that for you?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (21:01):
Man?
Speaker 7 (21:01):
It's really cool. I try to dig deep on the
stuff that I'm doing, and I try not to think
that I'm writing so much as just close my eyes
and free flow, move shape your movement around what's happening.
I just try to feel and let the music move
through me rather than make the music or compose it.
Speaker 9 (21:25):
That's the best creativity when it just flows out of you.
Speaker 7 (21:28):
Yeah, And it's funny because your body shakes and you
have this out of body experience. I'm a big softiet,
but there's times I'll be playing and it's just hitting
me so hard at that tears start coming out and
just crying because at that point I'm not controlling what's happening.
It's just moving through me, and it's this very spiritual experience.
(21:49):
There's not anything in the world like that. Every time
I play music, I chase that when something truly organic
happens and you're in a group of people and you're
just you're just dialed, everybody's die and you're in a groove,
and there's almost times like you just close your eyes
and you stop thinking and then it just flows. And
(22:11):
I imagine that maybe that's the way writing it. My
dad talks about that a lot of times. He'll just
make things quiet, walk in the woods, be inspired by
what's around, and let it happen and let it flow
through him. And I imagine that with Ali that was
the same way. There were times that he just let
(22:33):
it go and he would just move and flow.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
I'm certain that he'd be thrilled that that little boy
he met way back when I was making music for him.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
Oh man, When my dad approached me about that and
said that that was something that he wanted to do
and that it was a possibility that it was going
to happen, my heart skipped a.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Couple of beats.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
It's a little overwhelming, but the honor of that, because this,
in my mind, is the pinnacle we're reaching ahead with
a lot of the stories that you have with Ali,
finally getting it down in a visceral way.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
This is one of those things you don't ever say
to your own son. Okay, at least I don't think
I've said it to you when you were born. In particular.
I still every time I look at you and we're close,
you're right in front of me. I see my father,
I see you. I see every detail of you. I
feel your entire life from conception to now. But you
(23:39):
have my dad's eyes, and you're tender like my father.
And as you say, a hard to make you cry,
and obviously you got that from me, sir. But I
look in those eyes and the shape of them and
the depth of them, it's my daddy. When you were born,
(24:01):
the very first moment I looked at you, I saw
my father, and it was straight up llucinogenic. I saw
my grandfather, and generations spilled out of you, just tumbled
out of you over and ogain people I could never
possibly know, and there they were, or a dozen two
(24:22):
dozen generations just went further and further and further back
inside you. I'd never had that experience before, I've never
had it since, and it is one of the most
powerful experiences of my life and related to Mohammed. We
carry him on through us, and we carry him on
(24:44):
through you and your friends, and your wife and her family.
And that's everywhere in the world. It's everywhere in the
world with that man. I've been around the world more
than some people, and everywhere I went it was Mohammed Ali,
Mohammad Ali.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Yes, I wish I'd gotten more time to spend.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
With my dad. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Yeah, I do have very vague memories. You were, you know,
but I was young. I think, God, how old was
I three when he died? I can remember three.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
You were three when my dad died, sitting on his lap,
read Little Horsey.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
Go down to little Horsey. You're bouncing, you on his knee.
And I think those memories were reinforced because you did that.
We talked about him, and I just I never got
a chance to know him as a man. Unfortunate both
of my mom's parents lived until I was in my thirties,
and I got to know them as as people and
love them. But I I really wish I'd gotten a
(25:52):
chance to know Paul. Paulk It just sounded like such
a cool and kind hearted person.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yep, person I've ever known.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
But I mean, you and I have had quite a ride.
I've been there with a lot of moves and ups
and downs in your life now having two younger half
brothers and you getting married again and living here and there,
and I wouldn't trade it for anything. We always seem
(26:25):
to go somewhere that's quiet, and I love that. I
like separating from society sometimes and just having time to
spend even if we just sit in silence at it's
time that we get to spend together.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And well, I think that's true.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Sometimes words aren't necessary. I've never hugged anybody that's hugged
me tighter.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
That's me, yeah, yeah, and that's me with you.
Speaker 9 (26:54):
When Mohammad passed in twenty sixteen, that was a bad year.
What were your emotion How did you feel when you
found out that he had passed.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
This is going to sound selfish and weird, but I
thought of my dad. My immediate thought was, oh my god,
how's my dad going to handle this? Because he had
just lost his very good friend, Charlie Charles, his great
Pyrenees had just died. I mean, twenty sixteen was rough.
Not to be selfish, but yeah that. When I heard
of Ali passing, it was a shock. In a way.
(27:26):
I knew that he wasn't doing well, but my thoughts
immediately turned to my dad and I thought, God, he's
going to be a wreck.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
From our Melbourne headquarters.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
This is seven News with Jennifer Kayne Good Evening.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
The world has lost a legend with the death of
Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
Once named Sportsman of the cent is gone.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
Muhammad Ali, three time heavyweight champion and arguably the world's
most famous athlete.
Speaker 10 (27:51):
This week we lost an icon, somebody who was a
personal hero of mine, somebody who ended up transforming not
just the world of sports, but the world as a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
My nickname was Fetus. I was pushed into lockers and
locked up inside the My mom had died. Lynn and
I are divorcing. My dad died. The conscientious Objeck, the
(28:36):
cosmic child. I'm the.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
World heavyweight chumpions they come and go.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Destroyed.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But in Muhammadadi's case.
Speaker 11 (28:50):
You want me to go somewhere fight. This would never
be almost.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Because forever.
Speaker 8 (29:03):
He will always the.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
People's champion. My man Ali, I'm the miracle man.
Speaker 12 (29:26):
Bless Mhammad Ali. Peace enough to all his family the
Prime Minister of the Cameron in the last few moments
has tweeted Muhammad Ali was not just a champion of
the ring, he was a champion of civil rights.
Speaker 11 (29:40):
That was a bar.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
A very strange chatted bar Isaac and Hyder upstairs. Spending
the night in the Burying Springs house, sleeping in a massive,
king sized bed, I feel myself being tugged awake by
the streaming watery light of a full moon, tugged to
(30:07):
a window opposite the bed. I look out the window
and down onto the pond, the same pond with the sheep.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
On the Ali Farm trink. And there's Mohammed, his back
turned to me, dressed in white, exactly like that first
night I spent with him at his mom's house, dressed
entirely in white, glowing under the moon, standing at the
edge of the pond, looking out across the water. I
(30:37):
sense him getting ready to raise a foot and step
into the pond. Then I wake from the dream. The
(31:01):
first time I visited the Ali Farm back in nineteen
eighty eight, Mohammed suddenly inexplicably asked me a question, You
believe in ghost? He says, no, no, no, no, I
say I'll show you a ghost. I'll make you believe.
From his big magic trunk, which he keeps on the
(31:22):
wall beneath the stairway that leads up to the main
part of the house, he pulls a thin white cloth,
which he places on a coffee table. He waves his
hands across the cloth and says, arise, ghost, Arise. The
cloth quavers and a peak appears in the middle. Told
(31:43):
you there's a ghost in the room, he says. I ask,
do you believe in ghost?
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Ali says, I hesitate, yes, I say. I study his face.
He doesn't seem surprised. You're a ghost, I say, or
I guess. I mean the images people have of you,
what they and me and even you say you represent,
those are ghost. And I'm a ghost too. The way
(32:12):
I feel a need to get something about you on paper,
to write the best story in me and have it
carry on after my body is gone, that's being a ghost.
But it's not the only way I'm one. We're all ghosts, walking, talking, spirits,
all of us in countless ways, all the time. Man,
(32:37):
that's powerful, heavy. And then he looks at me seriously.
He levels his eyes and quietly he says, I always
knew somebody like you would come along. Man. Immediately, Wow,
I puff all up. But then I see the smile
(33:02):
and I know once again he's got me. He says, look,
you're not as dumb as you. Look, what is happening.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
I can't believe I'm here. My dad was superman. My
dad is not supposed to die.
Speaker 13 (33:23):
Of course, I knew my dad was suffering from a
condition for now over thirty years, but for some reason,
I never even thought about it happening because it was
a painful thought. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's. He always said,
now my life is starting. So when it finally happened,
(33:43):
I was like, this is not happening. At the end,
we were blessed to spend one on one time with
my dad and talk to him.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
At the end, he couldn't speak. I know he could hear.
Speaker 13 (33:58):
Us, so each one of us, the kids and the grandkids,
are like we were able to really talk to him
one on one and tell him whatever we wanted to
tell him.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
My Selfish Mo popped in and was like, don't leave, please,
don't leave me. I'm not ready for my dad too.
Speaker 14 (34:18):
That was my friend, and I wasn't ready to not
hug him and kiss him and laugh. At some point
I had to say, it's okay.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
We're gonna be fine.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
But I told my dad I would carry on your
life and legacy to the best of my ability. I'll
try to carry on, and I've been trying ever since.
Speaker 13 (34:51):
My dad held on longer than he was supposed to.
Even the doctors like, how was he still here? Because
he was waiting for my brother. He was waiting for
his son Muhammed. I'll lead Jr.
Speaker 6 (34:58):
To arrive. During that span of time, he MAM's aade
was reading from the.
Speaker 13 (35:10):
Koran for hours and hours and hours. He didn't take
a break, he didn't drink anything. He didn't he was
just reading from the Koran. It was the most beautiful
sind off that I've ever seen in my life. Daddy
was listening to the Koran, the words of the Almighty,
up until his last breath. And he didn't take a break.
(35:32):
He didn't stop, he didn't He was constantly reading the Koran.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
He was the most beautiful thing.
Speaker 13 (35:36):
I've ever been this in my life. Then they had
to chuck the machines off. Daddy still hung in there.
He was able to say goodbye to his son and everyone.
(35:57):
And when we were all relieving, because staff had to
prepare the body, you had to be covered in a
Muslim shroud that you and the man's aide had to
be there to make sure it was done cord in
our tradition. And I loked at Zaid and I said,
take care of my father. He said, I'm not going
to leave his side.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's an honor to be able to assist because these families,
we have to do a lot more for even Malcolm
X's daughters. This is African American royalty, and they have
a right over us as a community. We fall in short.
These are global icons that came from humble beginnings and
(36:48):
were elevated by God, Almighty God, and had a global
impact and a global reach that extends to this very day.
To have an opportunity with members of Muhammad Adi's family
is a great, great honor.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
So I met my dad at the door and he
looks at me and he said, what's that boy? And
I just looked at him and my eyes just welled
up and I said, Dad, it's Mohammed. And he looked
at me. He went no, no, no, no, no, come on, Dad,
we go and sit down, so we sat on the
edge of the bed and we both just sat there.
We hugged detail and cried, and then my dad went
(37:26):
downhill very very quickly. Ten months later he passed away.
It brings back memories of what my dad said and
how true it was when Mohammed goes, I'll be going
soon after, and he did ten months later.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
It's it's a strange coincidence that Howard Bingham died in
twenty sixteen too. Yes, it is his other great friend.
Speaker 8 (37:53):
And with them in the morning, there were rabbis, there
were priests there, there were ministers there or Baptist ministers.
Everybody was there, everybody, and that's how you planned it.
I want to go through my old neighborhood. I want
my neighbors to be able to see me.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Everybody was together from all over the world. I met
Jews hugging Muslims. I met people I'm still in touch
with now that I only saw for ten seconds. And
if we stop and we'd hug or shake hands and
they're still in my life. And that's your.
Speaker 13 (38:30):
Daddy, showing respect, shouting, screaming. They had Ali's shirts on,
they were chanting. I was like, this is the most
beautiful thing in my darkest hour. This is the most
beautiful thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 9 (38:50):
We were watching on TV, thinking like, geez, that might
be close to where we are. We ran down from
the hotel. We just made it to that street corner
with about thirty seconds to spare in him. Never been
through something like that before.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Never.
Speaker 9 (39:04):
The people were five six deep on the sidewalks and
hurricane the hearse. Everybody was throwing flowers on the windshield.
I don't know how the driver could drive because it
was full of cut flowers.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
And I reached out and touched the hearse.
Speaker 13 (39:20):
When we were driving from the funeral home to the cemetery.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
It was about three or four miles.
Speaker 13 (39:29):
It took us two hours to get there, just driving
and watching hundreds of thousands of people lined on the streets.
Speaker 6 (39:38):
I couldn't see the street like, I couldn't see what
color the street was.
Speaker 13 (39:43):
It was people side by side, every single race, every
single nationality, every single color, every single age.
Speaker 6 (39:50):
People were waved.
Speaker 13 (39:51):
I was in the car with my family and my
boys and my twin, and if you lowered the window
just to wave, I heard people's chant thank you, and
I'm looking, why are they saying thank you, and later
on I said, oh, it came back to me being
(40:13):
the selfish person there thanking me for charity.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
My dad. It was just so beautiful. My dad had
a recurring dream.
Speaker 13 (40:27):
Daddy was in Louisville standing above a lot of people
who were chanting, and he was flying above all.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
This is a recurring dream my dad had for many,
many years.
Speaker 13 (40:41):
And he was flying above a lot of people and
they were chanting and he was waving at them. And
when I saw the procession, when I was in it,
I was like, this.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Is Daddy's dream, so I know he was there. What
a beautiful way to be able.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
To bring together people from all over the world.
Speaker 13 (41:02):
They were from Australia, They're from the Middle East, they
were from Africa, they were from all parts of the globe,
China just some of them meant broke. Some people were like,
I don't know how I'm going to get home, but
I'm going to get a one made ticket. I'm going
to just say farewell to the champ. Some of them
never met him, but they felt like they knew him,
(41:23):
because that's how my dad did. He made you feel
like he made you feel like.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
You know him. Personally family. It is a unique gift.
Speaker 13 (41:31):
And I remember when we were driving to Cave Hill Cemetery,
the weirdest thing happened. I saw a person in a
hospital robe and he had an oxygen tank.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
I couldn't believe it. He left the hospital bed. We
loved each other for the one day there was over
two hundred thousand people in this treason. There was no fighting.
We were all saying goodbye.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
We believe as most of them. There some people who
are damns, as in a dam on the river that
blocked evil. I firmly believe Ali was one of those
people that had the ability to block evil. And when
these people are in the world, the impact the environment,
the social, cultural, spiritual environment in a way that blocks evil.
(42:22):
An example of that from in Louisville, which is a
very dangerous place, a lot of gang activity, shooting, homicides.
From the time Ali passed until the time he was
entered into his grave, there wasn't a single shooting in Louisville,
and as soon as he passed away started right back up.
(42:44):
It was one of those people that was able to
block a lot of evil.
Speaker 13 (42:52):
Sometimes and I'm going through some stuff and I feel
down my dad would come to me in a dream,
I'll feel his I just feel him watching me, and
whenever I do feel that, I say thank you.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
It's a gift to be able to feel his presence again,
even if he comes. When he talks to me in
my dreams, I wake up and thank you so much,
just like my death. Sound free to be who I
want to be. You're free, You're really free.
Speaker 13 (43:20):
And the only thing that gives me solace is that
he doesn't have Parkinson's anymore. He's healthy and he's beautiful.
Every time he comes to my dream he's young and pretty.
Speaker 11 (43:29):
I'm free to be what I want, thankful.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
I won't think.
Speaker 8 (43:33):
He's just unique. What he was doing seems so outside
the realm of the norm. That he was alone. That's
one of the things I respect most about him. He
didn't take his cues from anybody. There's a universal theme
(43:57):
to the feeling that is reflected back at Ali because
he gave. He gave all of us something. When he passed,
I took Taylor with me because I knew she'd have
an understanding of it. There wasn't a lot of sadness.
It felt like a celebration of life. Everybody is here
(44:21):
to show their respect for this man and what he
gave us. Paying it forward a lot of times? Is
keeping the story going so that people will never forget. Yes, Yes,
so people will never forget.
Speaker 9 (44:35):
Generations from now, They're going to be talking about this.
Speaker 8 (44:40):
Yes, generations from now talking about this man. Yes, what
was he like? I never saw n flinch, never stand
up individual, stand up human being in a proud black man.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
We still talk about him.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
I say, a week or doesn't go by that we
don't have a conversation about Ali.
Speaker 15 (44:59):
I'm so honored to have a piece of him with me.
I feel like he's here now. He lives in us.
His legacy is, without question, one of the greatest lives
ever lived.
Speaker 11 (45:11):
His eyes still sparkled. There was something about those eyes that,
no matter what happened to the rest of us, by
his eyes never dim the last time. It was hard
for me to see him like that. But who am
I to.
Speaker 8 (45:22):
Pity him when he ain't pity in himself.
Speaker 11 (45:25):
Nobody really understood how great he was because the greatness
wasn't in the center of a ring or standing on
the portio. When you're alone with him and understand that
the principles and things he talks about.
Speaker 8 (45:38):
He really believed that's what made him great.
Speaker 11 (45:41):
He's a guy who has several times risk everything, even
lost the title, and never shook on his bleaves. I
think that it will take probably decades, if not centuries,
for us to really understand how he shifted the culture.
He redefined what success was. It's not about what you have,
(46:02):
It's not about the awards they give me. Is what
do you stand for now?
Speaker 8 (46:07):
Ali?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Level of success? How long will people know Muhammad Ali
in this world? As long as there are human beings,
He's going to be known.
Speaker 9 (46:21):
As long as there are storytellers to keep the legend alive.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I see Muhammad is genuinely timeless. I think as long
as there are people. I like the way that Kriig
said that as long as there are storytellers, Muhammad will
be known. The poetry of the name, the poetry of
the deeds, the poetry of the man. He's going to
pass into classic mythology. He's just not going to go away.
I think it's world mythology. Who's known over the centuries.
(46:48):
Wouldn't the poet Homer of loved Muhammad Ali. He would
be a perfect character in the Iliad and the Odyssey.
If people around just fifty more years or fifty thousand
more years, I don't know how long we're going to
be here if we get our act together, though. I
think Muhammad's always going to be known by people, and
(47:09):
there's always going to be storytellers. And boy did he
give us some good ones.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I never liked us say I cannot once we say
I cannot. We have made a suggestion to ourselves. We
have weakened our power of accomplishing that which otherwise could
have been accomplished. For one to mention yourself, I have
no force, I have no thought, I have no intelligence,
only mean working against ausself.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
The taw of Mohammad Ali is produced by Imagine Audio
for iHeart Podcast and hosted by me Davis Miller. My
co host is Craig Mortally, Karl Welker, Mark Bouch, Nathan,
Derek Jennings and Little Oeme Davis Miller are executive producers.
(48:06):
Produced by Craig Mortality, sound design and mixing by Juan Borda,
music by Djsparr and introducing a very good pal of
mine Isaac Miller. Additional music by William Ryan Fritch and
also Luminessence track Nuage. Visit Luminescent music dot com to
(48:28):
check out more from the band. I want to give
a ring center thanks to our showrunner Derek Jennings for
his masterful composition and for his passionate connection with this project.
Just one more thing I'd like to say. There's no
(48:49):
beginning and no end to my stories about Ali Mohammad
has made my life bigger, broader, deeper, and stranger than
I could have ever And there's so many more stories
I'd love to share with you, big, timeless, universal stories.
If you'd like us to do that, let us know
(49:12):
at writer Davismiller dot com and we'll do our best
to get them out there to you in some form,
maybe in the second season of this podcast. Thanks for listening.
It's a few days after January seventeenth, nineteen ninety two,
Mohammad's fiftieth birthday. In my fortieth, I brought my six
year old son, Isaac with me and our old Volvo
to visit the champ at his farm in Michigan because
I wanted Isaac to meet Ali, and Ali the perennial
(00:26):
cosmic child to play with Isaac. But it's also because
I'm hoping to expose Isaac to Mohammad's magic, to provide
him with some kind of safe place inside him, so
that Isaac won't have as tough a life as I had.
(00:47):
While we've been at the farm, Ali has played with
Isaac hour after hour, doing magic tricks, scaring him with
ghost stories, chasing him around the house, hiding behind furniture,
jumping out to Ticklizac. I used to sort of wonder
when I was gonna quit playing, Ali says, used to
sort of worry about it. Now I know I'm never
(01:09):
gonna quip. All through the time we've been at the farm,
the wind has been rattling the branches of trees. It's
been snowing just enough to make the driveway slippery. Mohammed
has picked up his baby's son As'ad, holding him in
his arms. He's escorted us out to the car, and
(01:29):
Mohammad's wearing his short sleeve shirt and his slick soled
city shoes leather soles. His balance is not good, maybe
especially holding a sod, and I'm concerned he might fall
and fall with the baby. As I turned the key
in the ignition, Muhammad closes our doors. There's a video
(01:50):
camera in the back seat. I grab it and push
the power button. Ali sees the camera opens Isaac's door,
snatching up my son.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
There's the next champion, the great grave hope.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Did a great white help Isaac.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
This man will win the crown in two thy twenty.
Look at the face.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Two thousand and twenty.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
He will be the new way.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
And then I said, dope, I said, why, I will
be the manager.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
I mean ninety three.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
We will be the Grays that day of all.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The greatest of all times. Ali places my laughing son
back in his seat, drops aside to the ground, holds
his hand while pointing at the lens of the camera.
Watch my feet, he says. He turns his back to Isaac,
the camera and me, and takes about ten shuffling great
(02:58):
grandfatherly step. There's a moment when the car engine seems
to stop, the wind doesn't move, the air isn't cold.
Looking over his left shoulder, Ali raises his arms perpendicular
to his sides.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh, I show you the power of the mine, powerful concentration.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Then he levitates about three inches above the snowy driveway.
And although I've seen him perform this illusion many many times,
I turned to my son and smile as the most
famous man in the world rises from the earth once more.
(03:53):
What is a moment? How is it captured? Beat of
a shudder? What does this fraction of a second mean?
To Muhammad Ali, but decked in all white, as he
leans across to fake kiss me on the cheek, This glowing,
(04:14):
remarkable being whose name will likely be known and shared
long after he and you and I cease to breathe
and eat and fuck and sleep and dream. Trillions of
microorganisms live less than one second. Hundreds of blind greenland
(04:35):
sharks swimming right now in frigid, murky northern oceans have
been living for up to five hundred years. Bristle com
pines high up on arid Western American mountains, more than
five thousand humans developed written language and music fifty five
(05:00):
one hundred years before you and I were born. Homo sapiens. We,
all of us, our direct ancestors, have existed for roughly
three hundred millennia. Life on our planet three point seven
billion years. Stars, solar systems, and galaxies swirl and evolve,
(05:21):
the metamorphose and die over tens of billions of years.
Everywhere we look, everyone in, everything we've known or will
ever know, is composed of atoms from stars that died
billions of years before our sun came to exist. My
friend Muhammad Ali has told me time and time again
(05:45):
that life ain't nothing but a vapor. These things said,
what in the world could this dream of a moment
actually mean? This moment in which I'm standing in one
of a thirty five millimeter camera beside the greatest of
all times? Episode eight, We're all ghosts magic, Muhammad Ali's magic,
(06:23):
fathers and sons magic. I think about how many families
must have been influenced by Mohammed. I've been lucky enough
to see some of that in person, where you can
see the generation somebody who Mohammad knew back in the
sixties or seventies and it's the grandkids that are now
hanging out with him. The last time I saw Rothmand
(06:48):
after Mohammad passed, I said to him, man, you're looking
more like your brother. I'm a very, very emotion person.
I'm missing I'm about to cry. He just got to
these huge tears and just started weeping. It makes me
think about missing my own dad and how at the
moment of his death I felt him pass into me
(07:10):
and it startled me. I did not expect that he
became part of me. He entered me, and he's still there.
I'm pretty darn happy right where I am and what
I've got with my own kids, but boy, I sure
do wish i'd had it with my father as well.
I was fortunate to be with Mohammed and Cash, his dad,
(07:31):
Cashius Marcellus Clee Senior, on one of the last times
Mohammed saw Cash. You could see Mohammed become the father
in many respects. Cash was much smaller than Mohammed. He
was basically I guess my size, and he draped his
arm around his father's shoulder while we were standing there,
(07:53):
and they walked down a sidewalk away from me where
I'm just watching their backs. I had the feeling of
closure to it, a piece of art, even, and it
made me think about my own relationship with my dad.
Years later, I consider that, and I can see myself
(08:14):
with Isaac. These generations his fathers and sons stuff dads
are fairly stoic and removed, and I feel very fortunate
that I'm not Mohammed with young As'ad became a quite
good father earlier when he was boxing, when he was
the world's most celebrated person and very seldom at home.
(08:35):
He wasn't He was tender with his kids, but he
wasn't necessarily there to be available with a sad. Mohammed
told me that he wanted to be there for his son,
and he was with Isaac everywhere we went with Mohammed.
Mohammed made sure that if we were in a car
that Isaac was on his lap the whole time, would
(08:57):
be right next to him, and Muhammed always wanted to
go somewhere. The thing that strikes me time and time
again is that the very first time Isaac saw him,
Mohammed pointed to both of us and up at me,
then down at Isaac. You'll remember this when you're an
old old man and guess what I'm about there now.
(09:18):
And indeed it's deep inside me that moment. Isaac talks
about it all the time. It's extraordinary that way. Today
we've had my best pal in the world with us,
my son Isaac, who in some way or another thinks
(09:41):
of Muhammad Ali as uncle Ali, uncle Mohammed, And it'd
be great to just sort of have a little remembrance
with my man here and share our adventure with Ali.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Well, yeah, you'd stop did school to pick me up,
and I didn't really know why you came in. You said, hey,
we're going on a road trip. I was usually down
to go anywhere. You were famous for jumping in the
car and taking road trips was always something fun on
the other end of it, or just spending time.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
With you in the car.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
We hop in the car and you would just go
hours and hours talking, listening to music, playing road games
like the license Plate game and counting cows. I want
to say. We stopped in Louisville. We went and visited
Ali's mother. It struck me that that Missus Clay's house
was just so modest. It was just like neighbored right
(10:39):
next to you. Down the street. I don't think she
was doing well. She may have been just kind of
sitting in a chair, and she was pleasant, very sweet.
We packed up and kept on going and ended up
in varying springs and we pull up to Ali's farm
at the gate. At this point, you still hadn't really
told me who's seeing it out? When the intercom said
(11:01):
that Ali I was not there yet and to come
back tomorrow. So we stay the night in a hotel
and came back the next day and we show up
at the house and Lannie invites us in with her
big ground smile and face, all freckles and all, and
invited us in for tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwich.
Is just like a neighbor or family member. Then a
(11:22):
casad Ali and Lonnie's son is there. I think he's two.
I'm six years old, but he's already as big as
I am. And we're all just hanging out and eating.
Then Ali shuffles down the stairs. This is my first
time meeting Ali, and very different than what I remember
seeing in those old fights that we used to watch
(11:43):
up in the attic at the Miller Street house.
Speaker 8 (11:45):
He was just.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
Glowing and vibrant and fast, watching him move and wondering, gosh,
is he gonna fall down? But then he shuffles over
and picks me right up, starts playing around, growling in
my ear up, just like you would have an easter
or nephew or grandson. And that's the vibe that I got.
(12:06):
Was like I was at my grandparents house seeing Ali
like that, very different than what I'd seen on tapes.
It was striking, but you're a kid, You're going with
the flow. He had this fake thumb with this red handkerchief,
and I remember him showing me a sleight of hand
stuff and of course I know how that works now,
(12:27):
but I was like totally enthralled by that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you remember him chasing you around the house, physically
chasing you around the room?
Speaker 7 (12:38):
People, Well, yeah, he did this like Frankenstein kind of thing.
And I'm running around the couch and he'd stick his
arms out like he was Frankenstein and grown. It's like
you're playing with another kid, really big kid.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That was Ali. Do you remember him picking you up
to record and the things he said.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
He told me I was going to be the champion
in twenty twenty, that I'd be king of the world
or something along those lines. I used to kind of
feel as though that was some bit of prophecy, and
I wondered about it. Twenty twenty rolled around, and I'm like, man,
what is this year going to bring?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Do you remember the levitation?
Speaker 7 (13:21):
Ali was so good with his illusions, even at that point,
which is striking for somebody who has Parkinson's because their
movements aren't very fluid and they have balance issues. Parkinson
shrinks everything right. It makes it hard to do fine
motor movements. And Ali was so good at that kind
of stuff. It was just incredible allowing us to come
(13:41):
up there and hang out with him and his family
over that course of two days, you know, I just
developed this close connection with him. I remember getting back
in the car and he had walked us outside and
we stood and talked in the driveway for a few minutes,
but it was cold. We weren't going to hang out
too long. He packed me up up in the car,
and I want to say, he put me in front seat.
(14:02):
We're packed up, and we're ready to go, and you
get in the car and started up and you start
driving away. And I don't know what it was, but
something compelled me to unbuckle the seat belt and climb
over the seat. And I remember getting in the back
of the station wagon and looking through the back glass
and I wasn't even looking at you, but you just
sensed something. But you sense that I was emotional and
(14:25):
I was crying, and I mean I was just tears
kind of running down my face. And he said, what's
going on, buddy, And I said, it just doesn't make
sense how something like that can happen to some of
as cool as Alis as kind. That whole experience certainly
carries with me. I'm a physical therapist assistant, so I
(14:46):
treat people who had surgeries or they've got balance issues.
I get flashbacks of Ali, and the compassion just flows
through me, and I try to make deeper connections with people.
That experience, for me was special. It's always striking to
me that everybody, young or old, all have these stories.
Somehow Ali has affected their life or inspired them in
(15:10):
one way or another.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I remember that first experience was a field trip. It
had to be educational.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
Yeah, we got back and I don't think I was
really supposed to miss school, but you had a really
interesting way of pulling it off. With my teachers and
basically setting up a show and tell kind of day
where we I think we even brought that video, that
VHS tape, then showed them the VHS tape of Ali.
We talked about that experience and talked about Ali, and
(15:39):
kids drew up these cards, drew pictures for him. I
hope that those got to them. And for weeks after that,
these kids were out there throwing punches at each other.
And you know, I am the greatest. It was funny.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Those cards. I mailed them, and I know that Muhammad
got them. I set yours aside a little differently. You
may not remember the one you made. Do you remember
the drawing you made for him? No, I don't. And
he mailed it back, and he mailed back one that
I've never given you, that he drew. Maybe this will
be a good time to give it to you.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
OHI the artist. His dad was a painter. Brother Rochman
is a painter, and Muhammad was a pretty good sketcher.
He loved to do these little cartoon drawings. And you
did a little cartoon drawing of him in a blue
ballpoint pen and he's in the center of the ring,
and you wrote it as Mohammed, let me spell with
the t and you put Muhammad the winner in a
(16:42):
cartoon bubble beside his head with his arms over his head.
I think you may have drawn the guy flat beside
him as the loser.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I'm getting some slight memory of this now.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, Muhammad the winner you drew who spectators kind of
around the ring. Well, Mohammad did the same thing what
he sent you back that I've never shown you his
own drawing of himself in a ring. Gosh and love, Mohammed.
I'll frame it and give it to you, oh Man.
Speaker 7 (17:14):
Yeah, no, I'm anxious now, Hi, Craig.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
I have fun memories of time spent with my dad
and his dad, my grandfather, who I was very close to,
and I'm getting a little choked up talking about it.
I mean, it must have been wonderful for you to
share this experience with your dad.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
I don't have children, but I feel as though if
I did have children, I would definitely want to try
to create a similar experience somehow.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I think for me, I always wanted to make your
world larger and you did.
Speaker 7 (17:54):
Yeah, you definitely did that. That wasn't the only road
trip that we went on. He would just pick up
and get in the car and go to the mountains,
and we did that fairly often, and I was always ready.
I wanted to see what was out there that expanded
my worldview, especially spending time with Ali expanded my worldview.
He was of a different culture, of a different religion.
(18:16):
That was a profound moment because I'd only had exposure
to the world within my own four walls and within
my small city that I live in and my neighborhood.
And getting out like that it makes me want to
do that now more. Just like you stopping on your
way through Louisville, you didn't know what was going to
(18:36):
come next when you met Ali and developed a personal
relationship with him, and you never would have had these
experiences had you not taken that risk.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It is a risk.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
That's what I take with me when I'm out there
as a musician.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Now.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
I talk to everybody that experienced helped me develop relationships
to take me places that I may have never gotten
a chance to go otherwise.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I don't think I would have done that had Muhammad
Ali not been in my life from a distance as
a kid and then as an adult. I don't think
I would have been that adventurous.
Speaker 9 (19:11):
What does it mean to you that Ali had such
a profound impact on your father's life.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
It means everything. He's spent a lifetime living in the doubt.
If Ali that's the way of that's in the footsteps.
Through meeting him, you opened doors that you never would have.
You followed your dream, you became a writer. Ali gave
you the confidence to follow that dream, and that means everything.
(19:41):
It also trickled down to me the way that I've
been influenced by you and the life that you've led,
the way that you've used writing as It inspired me
to read a lot as a kid, and I feel
like that helped a lot, just expanding your mind and
opening doors that never would have been opened otherwise.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
My dad.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
I think spent time with him in early twenty sixteen,
maybe January or February, so this was only a few
months before he passed. He was a bit of a shell,
but there was still spark. I know what it does
to you, It just literally sucks the life out of you.
It's just an incredible that he did, and to travel
to all these places and meet with people constantly, because
(20:24):
you're wiped when you have Parkinson's. You're fighting that rigidity
all day and it just takes so much out of you.
To see that he was still very actively a humanitarian.
Was incredible.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
So he was dead on when he said, when you're
an old man, you're going to remember this.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 9 (20:52):
To not only play, but to compose some music for
this series dedicated to Ali. How much of a who
does that for you?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (21:01):
Man?
Speaker 7 (21:01):
It's really cool. I try to dig deep on the
stuff that I'm doing, and I try not to think
that I'm writing so much as just close my eyes
and free flow, move shape your movement around what's happening.
I just try to feel and let the music move
through me rather than make the music or compose it.
Speaker 9 (21:25):
That's the best creativity when it just flows out of you.
Speaker 7 (21:28):
Yeah, And it's funny because your body shakes and you
have this out of body experience. I'm a big softiet,
but there's times I'll be playing and it's just hitting
me so hard at that tears start coming out and
just crying because at that point I'm not controlling what's happening.
It's just moving through me, and it's this very spiritual experience.
(21:49):
There's not anything in the world like that. Every time
I play music, I chase that when something truly organic
happens and you're in a group of people and you're
just you're just dialed, everybody's die and you're in a groove,
and there's almost times like you just close your eyes
and you stop thinking and then it just flows. And
(22:11):
I imagine that maybe that's the way writing it. My
dad talks about that a lot of times. He'll just
make things quiet, walk in the woods, be inspired by
what's around, and let it happen and let it flow
through him. And I imagine that with Ali that was
the same way. There were times that he just let
(22:33):
it go and he would just move and flow.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
I'm certain that he'd be thrilled that that little boy
he met way back when I was making music for him.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
Oh man, When my dad approached me about that and
said that that was something that he wanted to do
and that it was a possibility that it was going
to happen, my heart skipped a.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Couple of beats.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
It's a little overwhelming, but the honor of that, because this,
in my mind, is the pinnacle we're reaching ahead with
a lot of the stories that you have with Ali,
finally getting it down in a visceral way.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
This is one of those things you don't ever say
to your own son. Okay, at least I don't think
I've said it to you when you were born. In particular.
I still every time I look at you and we're close,
you're right in front of me. I see my father,
I see you. I see every detail of you. I
feel your entire life from conception to now. But you
(23:39):
have my dad's eyes, and you're tender like my father.
And as you say, a hard to make you cry,
and obviously you got that from me, sir. But I
look in those eyes and the shape of them and
the depth of them, it's my daddy. When you were born,
(24:01):
the very first moment I looked at you, I saw
my father, and it was straight up llucinogenic. I saw
my grandfather, and generations spilled out of you, just tumbled
out of you over and ogain people I could never
possibly know, and there they were, or a dozen two
(24:22):
dozen generations just went further and further and further back
inside you. I'd never had that experience before, I've never
had it since, and it is one of the most
powerful experiences of my life and related to Mohammed. We
carry him on through us, and we carry him on
(24:44):
through you and your friends, and your wife and her family.
And that's everywhere in the world. It's everywhere in the
world with that man. I've been around the world more
than some people, and everywhere I went it was Mohammed Ali,
Mohammad Ali.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Yes, I wish I'd gotten more time to spend.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
With my dad. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Yeah, I do have very vague memories. You were, you know,
but I was young. I think, God, how old was
I three when he died? I can remember three.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
You were three when my dad died, sitting on his lap,
read Little Horsey.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
Go down to little Horsey. You're bouncing, you on his knee.
And I think those memories were reinforced because you did that.
We talked about him, and I just I never got
a chance to know him as a man. Unfortunate both
of my mom's parents lived until I was in my thirties,
and I got to know them as as people and
love them. But I I really wish I'd gotten a
(25:52):
chance to know Paul. Paulk It just sounded like such
a cool and kind hearted person.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yep, person I've ever known.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
But I mean, you and I have had quite a ride.
I've been there with a lot of moves and ups
and downs in your life now having two younger half
brothers and you getting married again and living here and there,
and I wouldn't trade it for anything. We always seem
(26:25):
to go somewhere that's quiet, and I love that. I
like separating from society sometimes and just having time to
spend even if we just sit in silence at it's
time that we get to spend together.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And well, I think that's true.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Sometimes words aren't necessary. I've never hugged anybody that's hugged
me tighter.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
That's me, yeah, yeah, and that's me with you.
Speaker 9 (26:54):
When Mohammad passed in twenty sixteen, that was a bad year.
What were your emotion How did you feel when you
found out that he had passed.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
This is going to sound selfish and weird, but I
thought of my dad. My immediate thought was, oh my god,
how's my dad going to handle this? Because he had
just lost his very good friend, Charlie Charles, his great
Pyrenees had just died. I mean, twenty sixteen was rough.
Not to be selfish, but yeah that. When I heard
of Ali passing, it was a shock. In a way.
(27:26):
I knew that he wasn't doing well, but my thoughts
immediately turned to my dad and I thought, God, he's
going to be a wreck.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
From our Melbourne headquarters.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
This is seven News with Jennifer Kayne Good Evening.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
The world has lost a legend with the death of
Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
Once named Sportsman of the cent is gone.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
Muhammad Ali, three time heavyweight champion and arguably the world's
most famous athlete.
Speaker 10 (27:51):
This week we lost an icon, somebody who was a
personal hero of mine, somebody who ended up transforming not
just the world of sports, but the world as a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
My nickname was Fetus. I was pushed into lockers and
locked up inside the My mom had died. Lynn and
I are divorcing. My dad died. The conscientious Objeck, the
(28:36):
cosmic child. I'm the.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
World heavyweight chumpions they come and go.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Destroyed.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But in Muhammadadi's case.
Speaker 11 (28:50):
You want me to go somewhere fight. This would never
be almost.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Because forever.
Speaker 8 (29:03):
He will always the.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
People's champion. My man Ali, I'm the miracle man.
Speaker 12 (29:26):
Bless Mhammad Ali. Peace enough to all his family the
Prime Minister of the Cameron in the last few moments
has tweeted Muhammad Ali was not just a champion of
the ring, he was a champion of civil rights.
Speaker 11 (29:40):
That was a bar.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
A very strange chatted bar Isaac and Hyder upstairs. Spending
the night in the Burying Springs house, sleeping in a massive,
king sized bed, I feel myself being tugged awake by
the streaming watery light of a full moon, tugged to
(30:07):
a window opposite the bed. I look out the window
and down onto the pond, the same pond with the sheep.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
On the Ali Farm trink. And there's Mohammed, his back
turned to me, dressed in white, exactly like that first
night I spent with him at his mom's house, dressed
entirely in white, glowing under the moon, standing at the
edge of the pond, looking out across the water. I
(30:37):
sense him getting ready to raise a foot and step
into the pond. Then I wake from the dream. The
(31:01):
first time I visited the Ali Farm back in nineteen
eighty eight, Mohammed suddenly inexplicably asked me a question, You
believe in ghost? He says, no, no, no, no, I
say I'll show you a ghost. I'll make you believe.
From his big magic trunk, which he keeps on the
(31:22):
wall beneath the stairway that leads up to the main
part of the house, he pulls a thin white cloth,
which he places on a coffee table. He waves his
hands across the cloth and says, arise, ghost, Arise. The
cloth quavers and a peak appears in the middle. Told
(31:43):
you there's a ghost in the room, he says. I ask,
do you believe in ghost?
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Ali says, I hesitate, yes, I say. I study his face.
He doesn't seem surprised. You're a ghost, I say, or
I guess. I mean the images people have of you,
what they and me and even you say you represent,
those are ghost. And I'm a ghost too. The way
(32:12):
I feel a need to get something about you on paper,
to write the best story in me and have it
carry on after my body is gone, that's being a ghost.
But it's not the only way I'm one. We're all ghosts, walking, talking, spirits,
all of us in countless ways, all the time. Man,
(32:37):
that's powerful, heavy. And then he looks at me seriously.
He levels his eyes and quietly he says, I always
knew somebody like you would come along. Man. Immediately, Wow,
I puff all up. But then I see the smile
(33:02):
and I know once again he's got me. He says, look,
you're not as dumb as you. Look, what is happening.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
I can't believe I'm here. My dad was superman. My
dad is not supposed to die.
Speaker 13 (33:23):
Of course, I knew my dad was suffering from a
condition for now over thirty years, but for some reason,
I never even thought about it happening because it was
a painful thought. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's. He always said,
now my life is starting. So when it finally happened,
(33:43):
I was like, this is not happening. At the end,
we were blessed to spend one on one time with
my dad and talk to him.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
At the end, he couldn't speak. I know he could hear.
Speaker 13 (33:58):
Us, so each one of us, the kids and the grandkids,
are like we were able to really talk to him
one on one and tell him whatever we wanted to
tell him.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
My Selfish Mo popped in and was like, don't leave, please,
don't leave me. I'm not ready for my dad too.
Speaker 14 (34:18):
That was my friend, and I wasn't ready to not
hug him and kiss him and laugh. At some point
I had to say, it's okay.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
We're gonna be fine.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
But I told my dad I would carry on your
life and legacy to the best of my ability. I'll
try to carry on, and I've been trying ever since.
Speaker 13 (34:51):
My dad held on longer than he was supposed to.
Even the doctors like, how was he still here? Because
he was waiting for my brother. He was waiting for
his son Muhammed. I'll lead Jr.
Speaker 6 (34:58):
To arrive. During that span of time, he MAM's aade
was reading from the.
Speaker 13 (35:10):
Koran for hours and hours and hours. He didn't take
a break, he didn't drink anything. He didn't he was
just reading from the Koran. It was the most beautiful
sind off that I've ever seen in my life. Daddy
was listening to the Koran, the words of the Almighty,
up until his last breath. And he didn't take a break.
(35:32):
He didn't stop, he didn't He was constantly reading the Koran.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
He was the most beautiful thing.
Speaker 13 (35:36):
I've ever been this in my life. Then they had
to chuck the machines off. Daddy still hung in there.
He was able to say goodbye to his son and everyone.
(35:57):
And when we were all relieving, because staff had to
prepare the body, you had to be covered in a
Muslim shroud that you and the man's aide had to
be there to make sure it was done cord in
our tradition. And I loked at Zaid and I said,
take care of my father. He said, I'm not going
to leave his side.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's an honor to be able to assist because these families,
we have to do a lot more for even Malcolm
X's daughters. This is African American royalty, and they have
a right over us as a community. We fall in short.
These are global icons that came from humble beginnings and
(36:48):
were elevated by God, Almighty God, and had a global
impact and a global reach that extends to this very day.
To have an opportunity with members of Muhammad Adi's family
is a great, great honor.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
So I met my dad at the door and he
looks at me and he said, what's that boy? And
I just looked at him and my eyes just welled
up and I said, Dad, it's Mohammed. And he looked
at me. He went no, no, no, no, no, come on, Dad,
we go and sit down, so we sat on the
edge of the bed and we both just sat there.
We hugged detail and cried, and then my dad went
(37:26):
downhill very very quickly. Ten months later he passed away.
It brings back memories of what my dad said and
how true it was when Mohammed goes, I'll be going
soon after, and he did ten months later.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
It's it's a strange coincidence that Howard Bingham died in
twenty sixteen too. Yes, it is his other great friend.
Speaker 8 (37:53):
And with them in the morning, there were rabbis, there
were priests there, there were ministers there or Baptist ministers.
Everybody was there, everybody, and that's how you planned it.
I want to go through my old neighborhood. I want
my neighbors to be able to see me.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Everybody was together from all over the world. I met
Jews hugging Muslims. I met people I'm still in touch
with now that I only saw for ten seconds. And
if we stop and we'd hug or shake hands and
they're still in my life. And that's your.
Speaker 13 (38:30):
Daddy, showing respect, shouting, screaming. They had Ali's shirts on,
they were chanting. I was like, this is the most
beautiful thing in my darkest hour. This is the most
beautiful thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 9 (38:50):
We were watching on TV, thinking like, geez, that might
be close to where we are. We ran down from
the hotel. We just made it to that street corner
with about thirty seconds to spare in him. Never been
through something like that before.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Never.
Speaker 9 (39:04):
The people were five six deep on the sidewalks and
hurricane the hearse. Everybody was throwing flowers on the windshield.
I don't know how the driver could drive because it
was full of cut flowers.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
And I reached out and touched the hearse.
Speaker 13 (39:20):
When we were driving from the funeral home to the cemetery.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
It was about three or four miles.
Speaker 13 (39:29):
It took us two hours to get there, just driving
and watching hundreds of thousands of people lined on the streets.
Speaker 6 (39:38):
I couldn't see the street like, I couldn't see what
color the street was.
Speaker 13 (39:43):
It was people side by side, every single race, every
single nationality, every single color, every single age.
Speaker 6 (39:50):
People were waved.
Speaker 13 (39:51):
I was in the car with my family and my
boys and my twin, and if you lowered the window
just to wave, I heard people's chant thank you, and
I'm looking, why are they saying thank you, and later
on I said, oh, it came back to me being
(40:13):
the selfish person there thanking me for charity.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
My dad. It was just so beautiful. My dad had
a recurring dream.
Speaker 13 (40:27):
Daddy was in Louisville standing above a lot of people
who were chanting, and he was flying above all.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
This is a recurring dream my dad had for many,
many years.
Speaker 13 (40:41):
And he was flying above a lot of people and
they were chanting and he was waving at them. And
when I saw the procession, when I was in it,
I was like, this.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Is Daddy's dream, so I know he was there. What
a beautiful way to be able.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
To bring together people from all over the world.
Speaker 13 (41:02):
They were from Australia, They're from the Middle East, they
were from Africa, they were from all parts of the globe,
China just some of them meant broke. Some people were like,
I don't know how I'm going to get home, but
I'm going to get a one made ticket. I'm going
to just say farewell to the champ. Some of them
never met him, but they felt like they knew him,
(41:23):
because that's how my dad did. He made you feel
like he made you feel like.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
You know him. Personally family. It is a unique gift.
Speaker 13 (41:31):
And I remember when we were driving to Cave Hill Cemetery,
the weirdest thing happened. I saw a person in a
hospital robe and he had an oxygen tank.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
I couldn't believe it. He left the hospital bed. We
loved each other for the one day there was over
two hundred thousand people in this treason. There was no fighting.
We were all saying goodbye.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
We believe as most of them. There some people who
are damns, as in a dam on the river that
blocked evil. I firmly believe Ali was one of those
people that had the ability to block evil. And when
these people are in the world, the impact the environment,
the social, cultural, spiritual environment in a way that blocks evil.
(42:22):
An example of that from in Louisville, which is a
very dangerous place, a lot of gang activity, shooting, homicides.
From the time Ali passed until the time he was
entered into his grave, there wasn't a single shooting in Louisville,
and as soon as he passed away started right back up.
(42:44):
It was one of those people that was able to
block a lot of evil.
Speaker 13 (42:52):
Sometimes and I'm going through some stuff and I feel
down my dad would come to me in a dream,
I'll feel his I just feel him watching me, and
whenever I do feel that, I say thank you.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
It's a gift to be able to feel his presence again,
even if he comes. When he talks to me in
my dreams, I wake up and thank you so much,
just like my death. Sound free to be who I
want to be. You're free, You're really free.
Speaker 13 (43:20):
And the only thing that gives me solace is that
he doesn't have Parkinson's anymore. He's healthy and he's beautiful.
Every time he comes to my dream he's young and pretty.
Speaker 11 (43:29):
I'm free to be what I want, thankful.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
I won't think.
Speaker 8 (43:33):
He's just unique. What he was doing seems so outside
the realm of the norm. That he was alone. That's
one of the things I respect most about him. He
didn't take his cues from anybody. There's a universal theme
(43:57):
to the feeling that is reflected back at Ali because
he gave. He gave all of us something. When he passed,
I took Taylor with me because I knew she'd have
an understanding of it. There wasn't a lot of sadness.
It felt like a celebration of life. Everybody is here
(44:21):
to show their respect for this man and what he
gave us. Paying it forward a lot of times? Is
keeping the story going so that people will never forget. Yes, Yes,
so people will never forget.
Speaker 9 (44:35):
Generations from now, They're going to be talking about this.
Speaker 8 (44:40):
Yes, generations from now talking about this man. Yes, what
was he like? I never saw n flinch, never stand
up individual, stand up human being in a proud black man.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
We still talk about him.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
I say, a week or doesn't go by that we
don't have a conversation about Ali.
Speaker 15 (44:59):
I'm so honored to have a piece of him with me.
I feel like he's here now. He lives in us.
His legacy is, without question, one of the greatest lives
ever lived.
Speaker 11 (45:11):
His eyes still sparkled. There was something about those eyes that,
no matter what happened to the rest of us, by
his eyes never dim the last time. It was hard
for me to see him like that. But who am
I to.
Speaker 8 (45:22):
Pity him when he ain't pity in himself.
Speaker 11 (45:25):
Nobody really understood how great he was because the greatness
wasn't in the center of a ring or standing on
the portio. When you're alone with him and understand that
the principles and things he talks about.
Speaker 8 (45:38):
He really believed that's what made him great.
Speaker 11 (45:41):
He's a guy who has several times risk everything, even
lost the title, and never shook on his bleaves. I
think that it will take probably decades, if not centuries,
for us to really understand how he shifted the culture.
He redefined what success was. It's not about what you have,
(46:02):
It's not about the awards they give me. Is what
do you stand for now?
Speaker 8 (46:07):
Ali?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Level of success? How long will people know Muhammad Ali
in this world? As long as there are human beings,
He's going to be known.
Speaker 9 (46:21):
As long as there are storytellers to keep the legend alive.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I see Muhammad is genuinely timeless. I think as long
as there are people. I like the way that Kriig
said that as long as there are storytellers, Muhammad will
be known. The poetry of the name, the poetry of
the deeds, the poetry of the man. He's going to
pass into classic mythology. He's just not going to go away.
I think it's world mythology. Who's known over the centuries.
(46:48):
Wouldn't the poet Homer of loved Muhammad Ali. He would
be a perfect character in the Iliad and the Odyssey.
If people around just fifty more years or fifty thousand
more years, I don't know how long we're going to
be here if we get our act together, though. I
think Muhammad's always going to be known by people, and
(47:09):
there's always going to be storytellers. And boy did he
give us some good ones.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I never liked us say I cannot once we say
I cannot. We have made a suggestion to ourselves. We
have weakened our power of accomplishing that which otherwise could
have been accomplished. For one to mention yourself, I have
no force, I have no thought, I have no intelligence,
only mean working against ausself.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
The taw of Mohammad Ali is produced by Imagine Audio
for iHeart Podcast and hosted by me Davis Miller. My
co host is Craig Mortally, Karl Welker, Mark Bouch, Nathan,
Derek Jennings and Little Oeme Davis Miller are executive producers.
(48:06):
Produced by Craig Mortality, sound design and mixing by Juan Borda,
music by Djsparr and introducing a very good pal of
mine Isaac Miller. Additional music by William Ryan Fritch and
also Luminessence track Nuage. Visit Luminescent music dot com to
(48:28):
check out more from the band. I want to give
a ring center thanks to our showrunner Derek Jennings for
his masterful composition and for his passionate connection with this project.
Just one more thing I'd like to say. There's no
(48:49):
beginning and no end to my stories about Ali Mohammad
has made my life bigger, broader, deeper, and stranger than
I could have ever And there's so many more stories
I'd love to share with you, big, timeless, universal stories.
If you'd like us to do that, let us know
(49:12):
at writer Davismiller dot com and we'll do our best
to get them out there to you in some form,
maybe in the second season of this podcast. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!