September 10, 2025 • 37 mins
As the WNBA Playoffs get underway this Sunday, Commissioner Cathy Engelbert joins Khristina for an in-depth conversation on the state of the league. They unpack the expanded playoff format and what it means for competition, while also looking ahead to the WNBA’s global growth, the next round of CBA negotiations, and how the league is approaching fan engagement in a new era of momentum and visibility.
Want more women’s basketball scoop? Follow the show on Instagram @ICYMIwithKW and X @ICYMIwithKW and for more on Khristina, follow her on Instagram @khristinawilliams
Let us know what you think of the show by leaving a rating and a review!
CREDITS
Executive Producers:
Nikki Ettore
Jessie Katz
Tyler Klang
Jonathan Strickland
Producer:
Buffy Gorrilla
Producer & Editor:
Tari Harrison
Host:
Khristina Williams
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Welcome to another episode of In Case You
Missed It with Christina Williams here on iHeartRadio WNBA fans,
the season has officially wrapped and we're headed into the
(00:23):
WNBA postseason, so it's only right that we invite WNBA
Commissioner Kathy Engelbert this week to join us on the show.
We're going to talk all things WNBA playoffs. We're gonna
get into a little bit of leak growth and expansion,
some of those CBA negotiation talks, and of course talk
about what's ahead and the future of the league. So,
without further ado, I want to welcome Commissioner Kathy Engelbert
(00:46):
to In Case You missed It. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, Christina, great to see you, and it's great to
be here at an exciting time running into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely, and we're going to dive into the playoffs. But
before we get started with that, we start every podcast
with our guests sharing a win of the week, and
that could be something personal or something business related. But
Commissioner what was a win for you this week?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, this week there's a lot going on, as you
know in the W and I think just you know,
the Valkyries being the first ever expansion team in year
one to make the playoffs probably is up there at
the win of the week because I don't think a
lot of people predicted with the roster they started this
season with that they'd be there.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So I'd say the Vals making the playoffs. Yeah, and
we're going to dive into some of the Valkyries and
the success that they've had this season. But let's start
with the new playoff format. Lots of exciting things happening
with the WNBA playoffs. How do you think this structure
elevates the experience for the postseason, not only for the players,
(01:47):
but for the fans, having an expanded round one in
around round for the finals.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, let's talk about the finals first. So you know,
one thing I've learned now being in sports a few
years is games of consequence are so important to fans,
to media partners, to everyone who's watching and following, and
so other sports have seven game final series. And you know,
we're sports media and entertainment property, and we needed to
(02:14):
have seven. Can you imagine the last year's finals between
Minnesota and the Liberty had that been able to go
to seven games. It went to our max five last
year and was such an amazing going to overtime in
the last game. So it struck me and I've been
thinking about this for many years that we need to
go to seven games too. So the finals are going
to be really exciting. And there's so much parody in
this league this year, so I'm excited to see who
(02:36):
even makes it through to the Semis into the finals,
and obviously in round one, everybody gets a home game
this year, so so it'll be a one one one structure.
That's what's different. We did have a three game last year,
but it was two to one. Everybody will get a
home game this year, which will be great for the
fans of both teams that kept paired in the first
round of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, and this playoffs will feature lots of historic first
this story lines. But you mentioned the Golden State Valkyries,
and this is an expansion team that's reaching the playoffs
for the first time and it's an augural season a
w NBA first When you think about this storyline in particular,
what does it say about the depth of talent in
the league today, particularly when it comes to the expansion
(03:19):
franchises that will be coming in over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are always skeptical
when you bring expansion franchises in. It adds more roster
spots to the total. We went from one forty four
to one fifty six and we're going to get up
to two eighteen by the end of the decade with
the additional expansion teams we announced, and it's important to
balance that. And I think the Valkyries have proven with
this incredible playbook off the court and on the court,
(03:43):
that you can be successful in year one and that's
what we want for all of our expansion franchises. So obviously,
you know, the Valkyries didn't have a ton of huge,
huge names. They had some stars like Kaylea Thornton and others,
but you know, they have just I think Natalie know
Hamma have just done an incredible job and Jess Smith
on the business side has done an incredible job. So
(04:06):
you know, kudos to the ownership team and the fan
experience and the basketball and kind of game presentation that's
going on at Chase Center and the sellouts, the twenty
two consecutive sellouts in year one, every game was a sellout,
So really excited for that success and for that to
be a roadmap for other expansion teams to benefit from
and to succeed off of.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Commissioner, What are some of the other storylines that are
exciting you coming into the postseason?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think just kind of the parody, kind of
in the middle of the pack, which you know, we
just had our last playoff spot determined in the next
to last game of the year with Seattle getting in,
but LA won last night and had Seattle loss, then
it would come down to Thursday night, our last game.
So just so many great storylines with Alyssa Thomas and
what Phoenix has done this year at the Atlanta Dream
(04:53):
you know, I don't think anyone predicted them to be
two three, and they're they're sitting there tied with the
Aces right now. The Aces fifteen game winning streak after
a tough maybe first half of the season, but coming
off the All Star break and Asia Wilson and then
the MVP race with Asian and Dafisa and Alyssa Thomas
being kind.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Of grouped together the Coach of the Year race, Rookie
of the Year race.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean, there's so many great storylines coming into the
playoffs here that I can't pick one. But you know,
I think you're gonna see a really exciting first round,
probably our most exciting first round in our history.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, and this and this season in particular, several several
key stars have missed some games and the end of
Indiana Fever are on the path to make a postseason
birth as well clinch angle spot, but without their star
Caitlin Clark. When you think about the number of injuries
this season and going into the postseason, how does the
league continue to build the momentum when some of the
(05:48):
star power may be sideline.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah. I've said this before. Injuries are like, it's one
of the toughest things in sports. But the reality is
you're already seeing it in the NFL. There's high profile
ones in other sports, and it's totally unfortunate that we've
had high profile injuries this year. Our data shows it's about,
you know, the same injury rates as last year. But
I know that doesn't make anyone feel any better. But obviously,
(06:13):
we constantly work with players and team doctors and trainers
and health staff and utilize data to sure we're doing
everything we can do to keep our players from a
health perspective. But they're incredible athletes on the court, and
the game is really fast and physical, and you know,
just I'm so impressed with you know, how they play
(06:33):
this game and what they're putting on the court every night,
and the talent speed. You know, I played Division one
college basketball at Lehigh University, and I don't think I
ever lifted a weight. We had no strength and conditioning,
we had no nutrition, you know, back in nutritional aspects
back then. And I think I'm just so impressed, and
(06:53):
you know how much respect I have for what the
players are doing day in and day out. So it's
an unfortunate part of the game, but we we think
we've built, you know, beyond one player, two players, or
five players or six players. Every team has to have
a roster where people can step up and show up.
And I think sports has shown that a lot of
role players help you win championships. And I think Indiana
(07:14):
making the playoffs, Golden State making the playoffs. They've had injuries,
New York's had injuries. You know, almost every team in
the league has had some significant injuries this year, so
but they've all persevered and we're gonna have a great
slate of eight teams, you know, fighting for a championship.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Another area I think of concern was regarding the officiating
this season. I know that's something that's talked about a
year over year. What steps is the league taken to
ensure like the fair and consistent calls are being made
throughout like these high stake playoff games.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, I think Christina I smiled when you started that question,
because I don't think it's just this year. I think
every year everybody complains about officiating, by the way, in
every sport. So but that means people care. They care
so much, and we hear the concerns from the ecosystem
in our league, whether it's fans, players, coaches. We take
it seriously. We understand there's frustration. Our game is constantly evolving.
(08:10):
We just talked about the speed, talent, and physicality, and
we recognize that, you know, we you know, as leaks
change and rules change, and you know, players get bigger
and stronger and faster, and officiating needs to change. So
as our game evolves, will continue to work hard on officiating.
We do have a thorough process. I didn't know this
(08:31):
went until I came into a league, because I was
one of those complaining about officiating in all sports before
I became a commissioner. But thorough process to becoming an official,
extensive training and education, but also the accountability on a
nightly basis.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Every single game, every single.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Play call or non call is reviewed. There's evaluations, so
teams that the opportunity to provide feedback. So we're working
as hard as we can to make sure we're getting
consistent officiating. But I understand the frustrations and we hear them.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I'm curious about when the league expands to eighteen teams,
will you consider possibly changing the format again to maybe
conferences instead of the top eight seed.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, clearly at twelve we didn't
have the scale to do that. We want the two
best teams fighting for that championship in the finals, and
sometimes when you do conference play you miss that. Ort
least says light my understanding before I came in and
why we change from conference to obviously just a seating systems.
So I think it's certainly something that will be on
the docket. When we get to eighteen teams in twenty thirty,
(09:35):
I don't think there'll be changes before then. You know,
do you need to get to twenty teams before you
do it so you have ten and ten versus nine
and nine. You know. Those are all the things we'll
evaluate with our ownership group and with the Players Association
as we get into that era. But for now, I
think we are providing a platform and a pass for
the best two teams to end up in the WNBA finals.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I want to pivot the conversation a little bit right
now and talk about the state of the LEAD and
some of the growth that you've been able to see
in your tenure as Commissioner of the WNBA. When you
look back to when you first stepped into this role,
how would you compare the state of the WNBA then
compared to now.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, Christine's a great question. I'm framed really well. You know,
I can't be more proud of the growth that we've experienced.
You know, I've a mantra every year, last year's the
bold will win. Everything must change this year because we
had such explosive growth. I mean, we brought in thirty
to forty million new fans last year, so this year
it's sustaining game. So sustain that momentum and gain off
(10:35):
of it, and that's exactly what we've done. So we're
riding an incredible wave of momentum ra app across every
business metric but viewership, merch sales, digital engagement, you name it, attendance.
As you stated that, I think we have the highest
attendance in the history of the league. And it's not
just because we have more games, because there used to
be more teams. So we're doing it with thirteen teams
(10:56):
in a forty four game season. So this is a
period of hypergrowth. That growth.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
We know that that's not forever. Growth is never linear, and.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Every decision we're making is focused on the long term
sustainability of this league. But I you know, again, you
have to start with a great product or service when
you're growing any business, and we got a great product
on the court, and now our teams are all investing heavily,
and there's a huge amount of confidence, not just in
the WNBA women's sports and I want to say we
led with that confidence when we raised that capital a
(11:27):
few years ago. Uh and then again just with the players,
the electric experience, the atmosphere. I mean, it's different than
five years ago when I came in. It's really different
when I walk into arena. And even when I walked
into the inaugural home game for the Golden State Valkyries
at Chase Center, I walked in and is that and
this is the first time for a professional WNBA team there,
(11:48):
And it was as if these fans had been following
this team for the twenty nine years the w had
been in existence. I mean, that's impressive. And I told
you Lake of that, you know, and and said, just
it's incredible what what happened out in the Bay Area,
which I knew when I came in Christina, because you
and I have talked about how in sports you need scale.
Twelve teams was not enough for the longest tenured women's
(12:09):
professional sports team in the country. So we're getting to
scale now with up to eighteen teams and just really
proud of the growth. And again, but we need to
continue to capitalize off that momentum. And we've got still
some low hanging fruit, as I called it in my
business world, around globalizing this game and making these players
really global icons, global household names, not just the United
(12:32):
States and Canada.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And what ways have we seen the league or you
make it easier to become a WNBA fan. I know
from a coverage standpoint seven seasons ago, when I started
covering the WNBA, it was really hard to find data, stories,
updates on the league and that's sort of what inspired
me to get started in terms of being a media
member covering the league. But in what ways have the
(13:07):
league made it easier for bands to get access to
these sort of things?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah? Great, Another great question because one of the things
when I came in was like, what's our strategy? And
we went with a very simple three prong strategy when
I came in. We're going to be player first, stakeholder success,
and fan engagement fan experience. So you asked this question
on the third pillar fan engagement, and the other thing
is like a CEO's job or a commissioner's job in
this case is three things, culture, strategy, and capital allocation.
(13:34):
So when we think about, you know, setting the culture
and putting a big one of three pillars be player first.
We needed to gain the player's trust. The players had
to say this is a league I want to play
in for my career. The strategy three pronged. And then
the capital allocation. Well, when I came in, we had
no capital, so that's one thing that's changed a lot.
We raised capital, and what's the first thing we do.
(13:56):
We allocated that to making it easier to be a fan,
an entire digital transformation, Christine, When I came in, we
had twenty five thousand outdated pages on w NBA dot com,
and our aff was clunky, not easy to use, and
our league pass was clunky and so evaluated. How do
you get that digital transformation done with the resources we have.
We hired engineers, data scientists, WordPress, we had you know,
(14:22):
we were lacking in the social media space too, uh,
and we invested in all of that. And then marketing,
I mean sports leagues and sports teams. It's marketing that
helps you be successful because you need three things. You need,
you know, games of consequence obviously coming up on our playoffs,
that's that's our games of consequence. You need household names
at how do you get household names marketing? I mean
(14:44):
I always reflect on, you know, Michael Jordan, what a
great player he was, But then he and Nike and
that partnership, you know, really set the stage for how
you really market and build not just Michael's brand, but
the brand of the league. So we needed a lot
of transformation at of investment, a lot of capital allocated
to make it easier to be a fan. You see
(15:04):
our app now it's like watch Bye, so buy tickets
rep by merch and it's working. It's working to kind
of bring it back to our fans and get our
fans to be fans of teams and players, not just
the league because they might have viewed it as the
right thing to do because we stand for the power
of women at sports. So some subtle changes there, some
not so subtle changes there, but it was all about
(15:25):
a capital allocation strategy to make it easier to be
a fan. So thanks for that question, because it's important
that people recognized three years ago we wouldn't have been
ready for this. Onslaught of all these tens of millions
of new fans coming into the league, we identified that
we weren't making it easy to be a fan, and
now we've made it easier. We still have work to
do as we get lots of fan input and we
(15:46):
love it. Still have work to do, but we've come
a long way.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, my next question stems from I attended the last
home game this week, the New York Liberty versus the
Washington Mistakes, and I saw fans wearing shirts that said
that they've been priced out of their ticket memberships for
next season. And maybe this is a question more for
a team owner rather than commissioner, but I would love
(16:11):
your insight on this. As we speak about hyper growth
in the league, gaining momentum, how does the league balance
that growth with keeping games accessible for fans or more affordable. Yeah,
it's certainly a balance.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But on the other hand, when you've arrived as a
legitimate sports, media and entertainment property, and one of the
things that's happened with women's sports, it's always been undercovered,
under invested in, etc. And now that we're seeing some success,
supply and demand would say in any economic model in
order to fund all these investments and owners are making
(16:44):
and obviously paying the players more, which we'll do in
this next CBA cycle, which I'm sure you're going to
ask me about. But that's I mean, that's the reality
if you're going to build an economic model that's sustainable
for decades. And remember we're the longest tenured women's professional
sports league in the country by any other. And why
is that Because we've been very disciplined about how we're
(17:04):
building the economic model here and the economic groove not
just to last for the next five years under some
new CPA, but to last for decades Christina. And that's
our responsibility as a league and the team owners. And
to do that when there's you know, high demand, prices
go up. That's just simple economics. So while I hope
we didn't price out you know, families and a lot
(17:28):
of our fans, I realized there's some you know issues
in the system, but we do have to balance that
with ultimately how this league has arrived in the sports
landscape as a true sports media and entertainment platform for
these players. I mean, the players are thriving with endorsements.
There's not almost an ad spot and any sport you
(17:49):
know that you're watching that doesn't now have a w
NBA player in it that wasn't happening five years ago.
And so brands are really stepping up because they want
you to see these diverse wn NBA players in and
ultimately buy their products because they're supporting that. So it's
all kind of interrelated to the economic Moannel, But I
realize there's some concern out there certainly that we're not
(18:11):
priced out, you know, our kind of core fan base.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, and you and you brought up the CBA, So
I guess I'll go ahead and ask the question, can
I give you that reaching the October thirty fair deadline?
Where do the negotiations currently stand between the league and
the Players Association right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Our number one priority is to get a new CBA
done that really balances and addresses the players priority.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
We're all in on their priorities.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We want to pay them significantly more more, you know,
given the growth in the league, but we also need
to support the long term growth and success of the
league and the teams and the owners. And we've been
meeting with the Players Association throughout the summer, will continue
until this gets done. We have many additional sessions already
scheduled through the rest of the season and beyond. And
(18:59):
we I mean I always tell people, like, you know,
I didn't play there was no WNBA when I came
out of college, but if there was, like, I want
the same things the players want. That has not changed.
We are going to significantly increase their salaries and benefits,
but setting up this long term sustainable economic model for
everyone because I think the players want that as their
legacy too, and the negotiation process takes time, a remarkable
(19:22):
amount of attention, detail, research models. Obviously, we're forecasting where
the lead is going to go. We're in hypergrowth that'll
level off, So it really is an opportunity I think,
to shape women's basketball and women's sports for generations to come.
And I think, you know, again, we're hopefully on track
to get something done and hopefully something that the player's
(19:44):
view is fair and our owners view is fair. And
that's our role as the league is to sit between
those two constituents and make sure the WNBA is a
business that people want to invest in and that our
players are set up for success.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I have a few questions. So you mentioned globals of
the game, and is not lost on me that this season,
in particular, we saw an uptick in international players committing
full time to the league. When you think about that
in the context of the prioritization rule, right, what is
going to be the priority moving forward in terms of
(20:17):
finding some common ground between the league and international players
coming over or just the prioritization rule in general.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, first, I think one of the amazing evolutions in
our league has been and I've admired the NBA for
their global platforms and their percentage of players born outside
of the United States. So I think when I came
in the league five years ago or so, we were
eight percent of our players were born outside of the
United States, and now it's twenty two percent this year.
So that's a huge international audience that we still have
(20:49):
some work to do to make sure we're bringing in
that our games are provided in different languages, et cetera.
So global growth is going to be the cornerstone of
our league's future. And you know, the tempo joining next
year is a major stat but that's you know, North
America is still and we host an incredible our first
ever regular season game outside the United States and Vancouver
(21:10):
this year with the Atlanta Dream and Seattle Storm. We'll
continue to bring WNBA to international markets. And one thing
that was interesting, like our reach is becoming especially strong
in China and other places in Asia and Europe. I
mean China, our All Star weekend through six point one
million unique viewers across the Chinese media platform. So so
(21:30):
that was the number one most watched w NBA game
in China. So we did the same thing a few
years go in India when we showed some of our
games in the Indian market. So huge global growth, you
know that that we're looking forward to. Really again, as
I said, making these players into household names, household global names,
not just domestic name. So you know, really good and
(21:51):
our players, we want them to choose, you know, what
they want to do in the off season, want them
to choose what they do in season, where they play.
And again, I think we offer such a great platform.
Our games are available in two hundred and seven countries
through all of our platforms, whether it's NBA TV or
Amazon or WNBA leap Pass or the local affiliates of
(22:14):
media partners in countries around the world. So I think, again,
enormous opportunity. And this is players opportunity. I mean Nike
took sabrinian Escu to Asia this year. What a great
opportunity for her to build her fan base, the Liberty
fan base and the league fan base, you know in
places like the Philippines, in Hong Kong and China. So
(22:34):
and I know a lot of our players hell from Africa,
so you know, ultimately, you know, do we get to
that continent, but certainly low hanging fruit in Europe. I mean, Christina,
when I was at the Olympics in Paris, I said,
one of the best vibe games, fan based games was
Belgium France women's semi final in Paris. I mean, it
was an incredible show of support for women's basketball and
(22:58):
those two countries teams. So a lot a lot going
on there. But we feel we have the best players
in the world here, both US and international, and you know,
will continue to offer them a huge platform here to
grow their brands.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So ultimately, would you say that's something that you guys
are looking to revisit in terms of not changing it completely,
but probably some common ground with the prioritization rule.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, We've been working with FIBA and others and I
think you know, some of the leagues have accommodated, and
you know, our players you need to show up, you know,
when training camp starts, because that's an important training ground
to build culture so that they can hit the ground
running when the season starts. And I think there's probably
only a couple now that you're probably referring to, But
I think for the most part, our players want to
(23:42):
be in market. Just start the ground running. Our playoff
games I mean, I mean, our preseason games were the
most watched game preseason games ever.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We made sure they were all produced, they were shown.
We did a college tour.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean, players and you know who play overseas, whether
they're US players or international players, they want to be
there to experience that and to give the fan base
and to build their brands, and to build the culture
and the winning culture to win a championship. So they'll
make those decisions. But I think, you know, for the
most part, I think we've we've been in a good
place with some of the international leagues.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, and then just looking ahead with expansion, we have
two teams coming in twenty twenty six, and then one
of the biggest free agency piers I think in the
history of the league coming next year. In the context
of the CBA and the deadline. How is the league
preparing for that? All of those big dates coming up.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So we have those dates, We have a draft lottery
to run, We have the expansion, a two team expansion draft.
We have free agency, which you know, when we get
the CBA done, will be you know, towards the end
of January or February. It is going to be fun,
and it's going to be a roller coaster, I think
for a lot of teams. So you may end up,
you know, with totally different rosters than you have this year.
(24:57):
You may solidify your roster and obviously then you're going
to be looking at Toronto and Portland starting up teams
and starting up rosters. And they've got a little bit
of a playbook now from Golden State, so so yeah,
it is going to be fun. It's gonna be fun
to follow and write about in storytell around. But you know,
I think the players are really smart and although there's
so many free agents in the veteran ranks, because they
(25:19):
know that, you know, we're going to return a lot
of the growth to them in this collective bargaining.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Anything you could share with us in terms of the
timeline of that draft, uh, that expansion draft process, anything
any time, I mean, there's nothing to share.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Obviously, we'd like it to be relatively consistent with last year,
but that's subject to when we get the collective Bargaining
agreement done, so we have some time for that, but
that'll all filter out after that. Obviously, our broadcast partners
are very interested in this amazing free agency period. So
hopefully again everything will kind of fall in place once
we get the CBA done.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
There's been lots of talk about the Connecticut Sun and
that franchisees feature, I know, not through twenty twenty six,
but twenty seven and beyond. What do you what's your
message I guess for Connecticut Sun fans who may be
worried about losing their team or just have questions about
whether this is going to be a team that's potentially
(26:25):
going to be sold or relocated.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, and I've heard from a lot of their fans,
which is great. They have a big passion. They've been
a great The Mohegan Tribe has been a great partner
of the league for many years since the Connecticut Sun
moved up to Connecticut. You know, all I will tell
you is that the Moveagan Tribes running the strategic process.
This is their process. We've received periodic updates from them
since they announced their intention to look at strategic options,
(26:49):
whether that's to sale of the team, I minorready sale
the team nothing and build a practice facility or you know,
and obviously this isn't their core business, but they've been
so supportive over the past, you know, decade plus, and
I think obviously you see the interest and everybody writing
about it, but that's a good sign that everybody's interested
in what happens here because we haven't had a team
(27:11):
sale in many years. So the interest from several potential
ownership groups in major markets is a huge testament to
where the WNBA is and where we're headed and the demand.
With that being said, we do have rules and processes
in place that teams follow. Every league has very similar rules,
and so obviously a lot's been written about what's going on.
(27:32):
I wouldn't believe everything you read in this case, but
obviously we want the best success for Mohegan, for the
Connecticut Sun, and for the team. So obviously they're still
looking at their strategic options and determining what they want
to do, and we've been in touch with them periodically.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You said that you wouldn't believe everything you read, anything
you want to clarify, anything that you can clarify.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I mean, I'm not the type to sit there and
point by point, but look, there's various markets across the
country that I've shown viability to hosting a WNBA team.
When we now the most recent reached an expansion, we
had thirteen cities bidding for a WNBA team. Obviously we
announced three with Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia. There's other cities
that have been great homes for our league. There are
(28:14):
processes for relocations, so nothing beyond that. But it's like
every league has a process that w is no different
and you need a process because then it would be
chaos if you let anybody move to anywhere they wanted
to go. And there's some great markets out there, and
we just went through a huge process to determine which
ones we would give the next X teams to and
we decided on three. We kind of set out thinking
(28:36):
sixteen teams and we went to eighteen because there was
huge demand and these were really really legitimate ownership groups
who are going to be all in on investing in
the ws So that's what we look for when we
look for, you know, bringing in new owners into the league.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, and the three new owners through twenty twenty thirty
have NBA affiliations. Is that something where the league is
given priority versus the indepid it groups that are trying
to come in and.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Get teams yeah, I get asked that a lot, and
there's no exact bias, but the factors we look at
our arena, practice facility, investment, long term viability in that market.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We look at demographics and psychographics and college teams based
in that market, and current current WNBA viewership and fandom
because we know who's buying our merch now that we
have a whole data, we have data scientists, we know
who's watching viewership. You know, like the Bay Area, I
mean scored so high on all those We had about
twenty five metrics and we put one hundred cities through.
(29:35):
There's twenty five metrics. So I'm like, I'm a real
data geek, Christina, and we've got a ton of data
on how we think teams will be successful. That's what
we used when we granted Golden State. Obviously, Portland and
Toronto are unaffiliated NBA teams, and then the next three
will be affiliated, so we'll have about half and half
affiliated and unaffiliated. But you know, the arena in the
(29:56):
practice facility do mean a lot because our free agency
is so active now and what are players looking for?
A player experience an arena and fan base and practice
facility and everything you would invest in the player experience
are an important part of that. So we want these
teams to be successful, and so I think some of
those NBA teams we just grant a franchise to really
(30:16):
have a great platform to spring off of to be
successful as a WNBA with a w NBA franchise and.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Very quickly unrivaled. This week they announced that their league
is now valued at over three hundred million dollars, which
is up in just the short nine month span. Obviously unrivaled.
They've been planning this league for several years. But what
are some things that the league can take away from,
you know, the success that that league has had just
nine months.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Again, we raised our capital.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
A few years ago. You need to be you need
to have a financial capital to hire human capital to
make yourself successful. I know they just announced another capital raise,
so back to back like again. Usually you do a
capital raise in three to five years, you deploy it
and grow. They they announced it another one, which is
where the valuation is coming off to. But you know,
we are all in on supporting women's basketball in this
(31:06):
country and beyond. You know, we've got a lot of
global upside for the w NBA. So I mean, I think,
you know, obviously, our star players are playing both in
Unrivaled and in AU and some still go overseas and
some live overseas if they play overseas in the off season.
So we want our players to have as much opportunity
to grow, and I think it's great when Unrivaled's done.
(31:28):
But again, we're focused on continued growth of the w
during our season, and obviously we've been supportive of them
and Athletes Unlimited and other others as they give opportunities
for our players to play in the off season.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The league is at forty four regular season games. Can
we see a potential extension of the regular season in
the future.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, I think as you think about the growth and
you think about, you know, wanting to maintain this balance
between games of consequence our footprint. You know, there's some
people think we shouldn't go too far into the NBA
and then NFL seasons, and there's others that we should.
We already obviously going to the NFL season, especially with
our playoffs coming up in the NFL just launching, so
(32:11):
we balance all that. We use data for that too.
What percentage of NFL fans are also WNBA fans, and
same thing with the NBA college basketball hockey. You know,
there's so much data you can use to determine what
the right footprint. We obviously are challenged every other year
with an international competition like the Olympics or the Feeble
World Cup. So next year we'll have to break for
the Feeble World Cup before our playoffs and then kind
(32:34):
of come back and finish the season in playoffs. So
so again we work with FOEBA, we work with the USOPC,
we work with you know, the Olympic schedule, USA Basketball.
So there's a lot of constituents in figuring out how
many games we should play. But I'm thrilled that we
are able to play a year like this year without
an Olympic year of fever World Cup where we could
get our max forty four under the current CBA in
(32:56):
But there's a huge demand for our game, and you
saw it with preseason game and you sold during the
season with our most ever reviewed ABC CBS season and
our most attended season ever, So there is a demand there.
So we want to balance that with the footprint and
what's right for our players and player health and safety.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
As a fan of the game commissioner, and you just
brought up the preseason. Are there plans to go to
other countries to continue to have those preseason stints and
exhibition games with different national teams from around the world.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, we would love to do something like that. Again,
it's an allocation of capital decision because it's expensive just
to fly to these countries, let alone put on an
entire tent pole event. So we'd love to do that.
That's what we're strategizing right now. And we'll use this
all season strategized next year with the Feber World Cup,
not going to probably do that, but hopefully in twenty
(33:48):
seven prior to the twenty eight Olympics, we'll have a
great footprint to blow out maybe some global game strategy.
But it can't just be like we're going to play
a game here or there. It's got to be a
strategy that's integrated with growing our players, fan bases, growing
their brands. So you'll see us in the next year
doing a lot of player oriented you know, attending in
(34:10):
xus countries to build their brands, so that will be
that our fan base is ready when we come over
there and it's not so hard to do like it is,
and I've admired the global game strategy the NBA. They
were out ahead of all the other sports leads who
are now doing it, like the NFL and the NHL,
but the NBA has been doing it in a long time,
so we're taking some cues from how they've been successful.
(34:30):
But they've grown grown a whole global game strategy, but
they've also grown a whole global platform strategy. And one
of those things is like Nike taking I remember Kobe
Bryant step On Marbury to Asia and growing their brands
there before they then did games there. So there's something
to be said about that strategy that we're working with
also our corporate partners and our media partners on what
(34:51):
the best way to grow that strategy is. So that's
that's definitely next up once we get our collective partnering
agreement done.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And lastly, looking ahead to the future, what is your
vision for the WNBA's future and the impact you hope
to leave as you know, the first ever commissioner of
the league.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, and I don't think a lot about legacy or impact.
Everybody asked me that question, especially because knowing that I
spent thirty three years somewhere else before I came here.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And that I'm not going to work forever hopefully.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, but yeah, I think just setting this league up
for decades. And one of the things that I every
time I'm in Arena Christina and you see it, because
you're in a lot of our arenas, to see these
young girls and boys watch these players, and some moms
and dads are bringing those kids for the first time
to a w game and not other professional sports. I mean,
(35:42):
it's incredible the experience that our arenas and our teams
and our players are now giving to that next generation.
And we know that next generation that sports is the
big uniter. They're growing up in a very divided society.
But what does sports do? Unites And there's nothing better
than when you see these young kids and these teenagers
(36:02):
and now young adults high fiving the older fan in
our arena, the diverse fan in our arena. It literally
is a uniter in a otherwise very divided time. So
that's what I hope to leave back is that we
brought you know, tens of thousands of fans in arenas
every night, and then ten plus million fans into the
game for the first time and gave them a great
(36:24):
experience that helped them, you know, with kind of all
the societal stresses that they have, but sports can be
that place to get away from it and to unite with,
you know, every type of person that's in our arena.
I always say, not only do we have the most
diverse league in sports, we have the most diverse fans
in sports. And it's so great to sit in those
arenas and see that fandom. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Absolutely, sports bring us all together. Commissioner Ingleboro, I want
to thank you for coming on in case you missed
it this week, and we are super excited about the
playoffs WNBA fans. The playoffs start on Sunday, September fourteenth,
so make sure you tune in to the WNBA postseason.
Thank you so much for joining us this week.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Thank you, Christina, and look forward to seeing you on
the road to the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Sure thing have a great one.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Thank you you too.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
In case you missed it with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Welcome to another episode of In Case You
Missed It with Christina Williams here on iHeartRadio WNBA fans,
the season has officially wrapped and we're headed into the
(00:23):
WNBA postseason, so it's only right that we invite WNBA
Commissioner Kathy Engelbert this week to join us on the show.
We're going to talk all things WNBA playoffs. We're gonna
get into a little bit of leak growth and expansion,
some of those CBA negotiation talks, and of course talk
about what's ahead and the future of the league. So,
without further ado, I want to welcome Commissioner Kathy Engelbert
(00:46):
to In Case You missed It. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, Christina, great to see you, and it's great to
be here at an exciting time running into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely, and we're going to dive into the playoffs. But
before we get started with that, we start every podcast
with our guests sharing a win of the week, and
that could be something personal or something business related. But
Commissioner what was a win for you this week?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, this week there's a lot going on, as you
know in the W and I think just you know,
the Valkyries being the first ever expansion team in year
one to make the playoffs probably is up there at
the win of the week because I don't think a
lot of people predicted with the roster they started this
season with that they'd be there.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So I'd say the Vals making the playoffs. Yeah, and
we're going to dive into some of the Valkyries and
the success that they've had this season. But let's start
with the new playoff format. Lots of exciting things happening
with the WNBA playoffs. How do you think this structure
elevates the experience for the postseason, not only for the players,
(01:47):
but for the fans, having an expanded round one in
around round for the finals.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, let's talk about the finals first. So you know,
one thing I've learned now being in sports a few
years is games of consequence are so important to fans,
to media partners, to everyone who's watching and following, and
so other sports have seven game final series. And you know,
we're sports media and entertainment property, and we needed to
(02:14):
have seven. Can you imagine the last year's finals between
Minnesota and the Liberty had that been able to go
to seven games. It went to our max five last
year and was such an amazing going to overtime in
the last game. So it struck me and I've been
thinking about this for many years that we need to
go to seven games too. So the finals are going
to be really exciting. And there's so much parody in
this league this year, so I'm excited to see who
(02:36):
even makes it through to the Semis into the finals,
and obviously in round one, everybody gets a home game
this year, so so it'll be a one one one structure.
That's what's different. We did have a three game last year,
but it was two to one. Everybody will get a
home game this year, which will be great for the
fans of both teams that kept paired in the first
round of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, and this playoffs will feature lots of historic first
this story lines. But you mentioned the Golden State Valkyries,
and this is an expansion team that's reaching the playoffs
for the first time and it's an augural season a
w NBA first When you think about this storyline in particular,
what does it say about the depth of talent in
the league today, particularly when it comes to the expansion
(03:19):
franchises that will be coming in over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are always skeptical
when you bring expansion franchises in. It adds more roster
spots to the total. We went from one forty four
to one fifty six and we're going to get up
to two eighteen by the end of the decade with
the additional expansion teams we announced, and it's important to
balance that. And I think the Valkyries have proven with
this incredible playbook off the court and on the court,
(03:43):
that you can be successful in year one and that's
what we want for all of our expansion franchises. So obviously,
you know, the Valkyries didn't have a ton of huge,
huge names. They had some stars like Kaylea Thornton and others,
but you know, they have just I think Natalie know
Hamma have just done an incredible job and Jess Smith
on the business side has done an incredible job. So
(04:06):
you know, kudos to the ownership team and the fan
experience and the basketball and kind of game presentation that's
going on at Chase Center and the sellouts, the twenty
two consecutive sellouts in year one, every game was a sellout,
So really excited for that success and for that to
be a roadmap for other expansion teams to benefit from
and to succeed off of.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Commissioner, What are some of the other storylines that are
exciting you coming into the postseason?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think just kind of the parody, kind of
in the middle of the pack, which you know, we
just had our last playoff spot determined in the next
to last game of the year with Seattle getting in,
but LA won last night and had Seattle loss, then
it would come down to Thursday night, our last game.
So just so many great storylines with Alyssa Thomas and
what Phoenix has done this year at the Atlanta Dream
(04:53):
you know, I don't think anyone predicted them to be
two three, and they're they're sitting there tied with the
Aces right now. The Aces fifteen game winning streak after
a tough maybe first half of the season, but coming
off the All Star break and Asia Wilson and then
the MVP race with Asian and Dafisa and Alyssa Thomas
being kind.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Of grouped together the Coach of the Year race, Rookie
of the Year race.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean, there's so many great storylines coming into the
playoffs here that I can't pick one. But you know,
I think you're gonna see a really exciting first round,
probably our most exciting first round in our history.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, and this and this season in particular, several several
key stars have missed some games and the end of
Indiana Fever are on the path to make a postseason
birth as well clinch angle spot, but without their star
Caitlin Clark. When you think about the number of injuries
this season and going into the postseason, how does the
league continue to build the momentum when some of the
(05:48):
star power may be sideline.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah. I've said this before. Injuries are like, it's one
of the toughest things in sports. But the reality is
you're already seeing it in the NFL. There's high profile
ones in other sports, and it's totally unfortunate that we've
had high profile injuries this year. Our data shows it's about,
you know, the same injury rates as last year. But
I know that doesn't make anyone feel any better. But obviously,
(06:13):
we constantly work with players and team doctors and trainers
and health staff and utilize data to sure we're doing
everything we can do to keep our players from a
health perspective. But they're incredible athletes on the court, and
the game is really fast and physical, and you know,
just I'm so impressed with you know, how they play
(06:33):
this game and what they're putting on the court every night,
and the talent speed. You know, I played Division one
college basketball at Lehigh University, and I don't think I
ever lifted a weight. We had no strength and conditioning,
we had no nutrition, you know, back in nutritional aspects
back then. And I think I'm just so impressed, and
(06:53):
you know how much respect I have for what the
players are doing day in and day out. So it's
an unfortunate part of the game, but we we think
we've built, you know, beyond one player, two players, or
five players or six players. Every team has to have
a roster where people can step up and show up.
And I think sports has shown that a lot of
role players help you win championships. And I think Indiana
(07:14):
making the playoffs, Golden State making the playoffs. They've had injuries,
New York's had injuries. You know, almost every team in
the league has had some significant injuries this year, so
but they've all persevered and we're gonna have a great
slate of eight teams, you know, fighting for a championship.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Another area I think of concern was regarding the officiating
this season. I know that's something that's talked about a
year over year. What steps is the league taken to
ensure like the fair and consistent calls are being made
throughout like these high stake playoff games.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, I think Christina I smiled when you started that question,
because I don't think it's just this year. I think
every year everybody complains about officiating, by the way, in
every sport. So but that means people care. They care
so much, and we hear the concerns from the ecosystem
in our league, whether it's fans, players, coaches. We take
it seriously. We understand there's frustration. Our game is constantly evolving.
(08:10):
We just talked about the speed, talent, and physicality, and
we recognize that, you know, we you know, as leaks
change and rules change, and you know, players get bigger
and stronger and faster, and officiating needs to change. So
as our game evolves, will continue to work hard on officiating.
We do have a thorough process. I didn't know this
(08:31):
went until I came into a league, because I was
one of those complaining about officiating in all sports before
I became a commissioner. But thorough process to becoming an official,
extensive training and education, but also the accountability on a
nightly basis.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Every single game, every single.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Play call or non call is reviewed. There's evaluations, so
teams that the opportunity to provide feedback. So we're working
as hard as we can to make sure we're getting
consistent officiating. But I understand the frustrations and we hear them.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I'm curious about when the league expands to eighteen teams,
will you consider possibly changing the format again to maybe
conferences instead of the top eight seed.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, clearly at twelve we didn't
have the scale to do that. We want the two
best teams fighting for that championship in the finals, and
sometimes when you do conference play you miss that. Ort
least says light my understanding before I came in and
why we change from conference to obviously just a seating systems.
So I think it's certainly something that will be on
the docket. When we get to eighteen teams in twenty thirty,
(09:35):
I don't think there'll be changes before then. You know,
do you need to get to twenty teams before you
do it so you have ten and ten versus nine
and nine. You know. Those are all the things we'll
evaluate with our ownership group and with the Players Association
as we get into that era. But for now, I
think we are providing a platform and a pass for
the best two teams to end up in the WNBA finals.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I want to pivot the conversation a little bit right
now and talk about the state of the LEAD and
some of the growth that you've been able to see
in your tenure as Commissioner of the WNBA. When you
look back to when you first stepped into this role,
how would you compare the state of the WNBA then
compared to now.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, Christine's a great question. I'm framed really well. You know,
I can't be more proud of the growth that we've experienced.
You know, I've a mantra every year, last year's the
bold will win. Everything must change this year because we
had such explosive growth. I mean, we brought in thirty
to forty million new fans last year, so this year
it's sustaining game. So sustain that momentum and gain off
(10:35):
of it, and that's exactly what we've done. So we're
riding an incredible wave of momentum ra app across every
business metric but viewership, merch sales, digital engagement, you name it, attendance.
As you stated that, I think we have the highest
attendance in the history of the league. And it's not
just because we have more games, because there used to
be more teams. So we're doing it with thirteen teams
(10:56):
in a forty four game season. So this is a
period of hypergrowth. That growth.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
We know that that's not forever. Growth is never linear, and.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Every decision we're making is focused on the long term
sustainability of this league. But I you know, again, you
have to start with a great product or service when
you're growing any business, and we got a great product
on the court, and now our teams are all investing heavily,
and there's a huge amount of confidence, not just in
the WNBA women's sports and I want to say we
led with that confidence when we raised that capital a
(11:27):
few years ago. Uh and then again just with the players,
the electric experience, the atmosphere. I mean, it's different than
five years ago when I came in. It's really different
when I walk into arena. And even when I walked
into the inaugural home game for the Golden State Valkyries
at Chase Center, I walked in and is that and
this is the first time for a professional WNBA team there,
(11:48):
And it was as if these fans had been following
this team for the twenty nine years the w had
been in existence. I mean, that's impressive. And I told
you Lake of that, you know, and and said, just
it's incredible what what happened out in the Bay Area,
which I knew when I came in Christina, because you
and I have talked about how in sports you need scale.
Twelve teams was not enough for the longest tenured women's
(12:09):
professional sports team in the country. So we're getting to
scale now with up to eighteen teams and just really
proud of the growth. And again, but we need to
continue to capitalize off that momentum. And we've got still
some low hanging fruit, as I called it in my
business world, around globalizing this game and making these players
really global icons, global household names, not just the United
(12:32):
States and Canada.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And what ways have we seen the league or you
make it easier to become a WNBA fan. I know
from a coverage standpoint seven seasons ago, when I started
covering the WNBA, it was really hard to find data, stories,
updates on the league and that's sort of what inspired
me to get started in terms of being a media
member covering the league. But in what ways have the
(13:07):
league made it easier for bands to get access to
these sort of things?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah? Great, Another great question because one of the things
when I came in was like, what's our strategy? And
we went with a very simple three prong strategy when
I came in. We're going to be player first, stakeholder success,
and fan engagement fan experience. So you asked this question
on the third pillar fan engagement, and the other thing
is like a CEO's job or a commissioner's job in
this case is three things, culture, strategy, and capital allocation.
(13:34):
So when we think about, you know, setting the culture
and putting a big one of three pillars be player first.
We needed to gain the player's trust. The players had
to say this is a league I want to play
in for my career. The strategy three pronged. And then
the capital allocation. Well, when I came in, we had
no capital, so that's one thing that's changed a lot.
We raised capital, and what's the first thing we do.
(13:56):
We allocated that to making it easier to be a fan,
an entire digital transformation, Christine, When I came in, we
had twenty five thousand outdated pages on w NBA dot com,
and our aff was clunky, not easy to use, and
our league pass was clunky and so evaluated. How do
you get that digital transformation done with the resources we have.
We hired engineers, data scientists, WordPress, we had you know,
(14:22):
we were lacking in the social media space too, uh,
and we invested in all of that. And then marketing,
I mean sports leagues and sports teams. It's marketing that
helps you be successful because you need three things. You need,
you know, games of consequence obviously coming up on our playoffs,
that's that's our games of consequence. You need household names
at how do you get household names marketing? I mean
(14:44):
I always reflect on, you know, Michael Jordan, what a
great player he was, But then he and Nike and
that partnership, you know, really set the stage for how
you really market and build not just Michael's brand, but
the brand of the league. So we needed a lot
of transformation at of investment, a lot of capital allocated
to make it easier to be a fan. You see
(15:04):
our app now it's like watch Bye, so buy tickets
rep by merch and it's working. It's working to kind
of bring it back to our fans and get our
fans to be fans of teams and players, not just
the league because they might have viewed it as the
right thing to do because we stand for the power
of women at sports. So some subtle changes there, some
not so subtle changes there, but it was all about
(15:25):
a capital allocation strategy to make it easier to be
a fan. So thanks for that question, because it's important
that people recognized three years ago we wouldn't have been
ready for this. Onslaught of all these tens of millions
of new fans coming into the league, we identified that
we weren't making it easy to be a fan, and
now we've made it easier. We still have work to
do as we get lots of fan input and we
(15:46):
love it. Still have work to do, but we've come
a long way.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, my next question stems from I attended the last
home game this week, the New York Liberty versus the
Washington Mistakes, and I saw fans wearing shirts that said
that they've been priced out of their ticket memberships for
next season. And maybe this is a question more for
a team owner rather than commissioner, but I would love
(16:11):
your insight on this. As we speak about hyper growth
in the league, gaining momentum, how does the league balance
that growth with keeping games accessible for fans or more affordable. Yeah,
it's certainly a balance.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But on the other hand, when you've arrived as a
legitimate sports, media and entertainment property, and one of the
things that's happened with women's sports, it's always been undercovered,
under invested in, etc. And now that we're seeing some success,
supply and demand would say in any economic model in
order to fund all these investments and owners are making
(16:44):
and obviously paying the players more, which we'll do in
this next CBA cycle, which I'm sure you're going to
ask me about. But that's I mean, that's the reality
if you're going to build an economic model that's sustainable
for decades. And remember we're the longest tenured women's professional
sports league in the country by any other. And why
is that Because we've been very disciplined about how we're
(17:04):
building the economic model here and the economic groove not
just to last for the next five years under some
new CPA, but to last for decades Christina. And that's
our responsibility as a league and the team owners. And
to do that when there's you know, high demand, prices
go up. That's just simple economics. So while I hope
we didn't price out you know, families and a lot
(17:28):
of our fans, I realized there's some you know issues
in the system, but we do have to balance that
with ultimately how this league has arrived in the sports
landscape as a true sports media and entertainment platform for
these players. I mean, the players are thriving with endorsements.
There's not almost an ad spot and any sport you
(17:49):
know that you're watching that doesn't now have a w
NBA player in it that wasn't happening five years ago.
And so brands are really stepping up because they want
you to see these diverse wn NBA players in and
ultimately buy their products because they're supporting that. So it's
all kind of interrelated to the economic Moannel, But I
realize there's some concern out there certainly that we're not
(18:11):
priced out, you know, our kind of core fan base.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, and you and you brought up the CBA, So
I guess I'll go ahead and ask the question, can
I give you that reaching the October thirty fair deadline?
Where do the negotiations currently stand between the league and
the Players Association right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Our number one priority is to get a new CBA
done that really balances and addresses the players priority.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
We're all in on their priorities.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We want to pay them significantly more more, you know,
given the growth in the league, but we also need
to support the long term growth and success of the
league and the teams and the owners. And we've been
meeting with the Players Association throughout the summer, will continue
until this gets done. We have many additional sessions already
scheduled through the rest of the season and beyond. And
(18:59):
we I mean I always tell people, like, you know,
I didn't play there was no WNBA when I came
out of college, but if there was, like, I want
the same things the players want. That has not changed.
We are going to significantly increase their salaries and benefits,
but setting up this long term sustainable economic model for
everyone because I think the players want that as their
legacy too, and the negotiation process takes time, a remarkable
(19:22):
amount of attention, detail, research models. Obviously, we're forecasting where
the lead is going to go. We're in hypergrowth that'll
level off, So it really is an opportunity I think,
to shape women's basketball and women's sports for generations to come.
And I think, you know, again, we're hopefully on track
to get something done and hopefully something that the player's
(19:44):
view is fair and our owners view is fair. And
that's our role as the league is to sit between
those two constituents and make sure the WNBA is a
business that people want to invest in and that our
players are set up for success.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I have a few questions. So you mentioned globals of
the game, and is not lost on me that this season,
in particular, we saw an uptick in international players committing
full time to the league. When you think about that
in the context of the prioritization rule, right, what is
going to be the priority moving forward in terms of
(20:17):
finding some common ground between the league and international players
coming over or just the prioritization rule in general.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, first, I think one of the amazing evolutions in
our league has been and I've admired the NBA for
their global platforms and their percentage of players born outside
of the United States. So I think when I came
in the league five years ago or so, we were
eight percent of our players were born outside of the
United States, and now it's twenty two percent this year.
So that's a huge international audience that we still have
(20:49):
some work to do to make sure we're bringing in
that our games are provided in different languages, et cetera.
So global growth is going to be the cornerstone of
our league's future. And you know, the tempo joining next
year is a major stat but that's you know, North
America is still and we host an incredible our first
ever regular season game outside the United States and Vancouver
(21:10):
this year with the Atlanta Dream and Seattle Storm. We'll
continue to bring WNBA to international markets. And one thing
that was interesting, like our reach is becoming especially strong
in China and other places in Asia and Europe. I
mean China, our All Star weekend through six point one
million unique viewers across the Chinese media platform. So so
(21:30):
that was the number one most watched w NBA game
in China. So we did the same thing a few
years go in India when we showed some of our
games in the Indian market. So huge global growth, you
know that that we're looking forward to. Really again, as
I said, making these players into household names, household global names,
not just domestic name. So you know, really good and
(21:51):
our players, we want them to choose, you know, what
they want to do in the off season, want them
to choose what they do in season, where they play.
And again, I think we offer such a great platform.
Our games are available in two hundred and seven countries
through all of our platforms, whether it's NBA TV or
Amazon or WNBA leap Pass or the local affiliates of
(22:14):
media partners in countries around the world. So I think, again,
enormous opportunity. And this is players opportunity. I mean Nike
took sabrinian Escu to Asia this year. What a great
opportunity for her to build her fan base, the Liberty
fan base and the league fan base, you know in
places like the Philippines, in Hong Kong and China. So
(22:34):
and I know a lot of our players hell from Africa,
so you know, ultimately, you know, do we get to
that continent, but certainly low hanging fruit in Europe. I mean, Christina,
when I was at the Olympics in Paris, I said,
one of the best vibe games, fan based games was
Belgium France women's semi final in Paris. I mean, it
was an incredible show of support for women's basketball and
(22:58):
those two countries teams. So a lot a lot going
on there. But we feel we have the best players
in the world here, both US and international, and you know,
will continue to offer them a huge platform here to
grow their brands.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So ultimately, would you say that's something that you guys
are looking to revisit in terms of not changing it completely,
but probably some common ground with the prioritization rule.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, We've been working with FIBA and others and I
think you know, some of the leagues have accommodated, and
you know, our players you need to show up, you know,
when training camp starts, because that's an important training ground
to build culture so that they can hit the ground
running when the season starts. And I think there's probably
only a couple now that you're probably referring to, But
I think for the most part, our players want to
(23:42):
be in market. Just start the ground running. Our playoff
games I mean, I mean, our preseason games were the
most watched game preseason games ever.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We made sure they were all produced, they were shown.
We did a college tour.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean, players and you know who play overseas, whether
they're US players or international players, they want to be
there to experience that and to give the fan base
and to build their brands, and to build the culture
and the winning culture to win a championship. So they'll
make those decisions. But I think, you know, for the
most part, I think we've we've been in a good
place with some of the international leagues.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, and then just looking ahead with expansion, we have
two teams coming in twenty twenty six, and then one
of the biggest free agency piers I think in the
history of the league coming next year. In the context
of the CBA and the deadline. How is the league
preparing for that? All of those big dates coming up.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So we have those dates, We have a draft lottery
to run, We have the expansion, a two team expansion draft.
We have free agency, which you know, when we get
the CBA done, will be you know, towards the end
of January or February. It is going to be fun,
and it's going to be a roller coaster, I think
for a lot of teams. So you may end up,
you know, with totally different rosters than you have this year.
(24:57):
You may solidify your roster and obviously then you're going
to be looking at Toronto and Portland starting up teams
and starting up rosters. And they've got a little bit
of a playbook now from Golden State, so so yeah,
it is going to be fun. It's gonna be fun
to follow and write about in storytell around. But you know,
I think the players are really smart and although there's
so many free agents in the veteran ranks, because they
(25:19):
know that, you know, we're going to return a lot
of the growth to them in this collective bargaining.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Anything you could share with us in terms of the
timeline of that draft, uh, that expansion draft process, anything
any time, I mean, there's nothing to share.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Obviously, we'd like it to be relatively consistent with last year,
but that's subject to when we get the collective Bargaining
agreement done, so we have some time for that, but
that'll all filter out after that. Obviously, our broadcast partners
are very interested in this amazing free agency period. So
hopefully again everything will kind of fall in place once
we get the CBA done.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
There's been lots of talk about the Connecticut Sun and
that franchisees feature, I know, not through twenty twenty six,
but twenty seven and beyond. What do you what's your
message I guess for Connecticut Sun fans who may be
worried about losing their team or just have questions about
whether this is going to be a team that's potentially
(26:25):
going to be sold or relocated.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, and I've heard from a lot of their fans,
which is great. They have a big passion. They've been
a great The Mohegan Tribe has been a great partner
of the league for many years since the Connecticut Sun
moved up to Connecticut. You know, all I will tell
you is that the Moveagan Tribes running the strategic process.
This is their process. We've received periodic updates from them
since they announced their intention to look at strategic options,
(26:49):
whether that's to sale of the team, I minorready sale
the team nothing and build a practice facility or you know,
and obviously this isn't their core business, but they've been
so supportive over the past, you know, decade plus, and
I think obviously you see the interest and everybody writing
about it, but that's a good sign that everybody's interested
in what happens here because we haven't had a team
(27:11):
sale in many years. So the interest from several potential
ownership groups in major markets is a huge testament to
where the WNBA is and where we're headed and the demand.
With that being said, we do have rules and processes
in place that teams follow. Every league has very similar rules,
and so obviously a lot's been written about what's going on.
(27:32):
I wouldn't believe everything you read in this case, but
obviously we want the best success for Mohegan, for the
Connecticut Sun, and for the team. So obviously they're still
looking at their strategic options and determining what they want
to do, and we've been in touch with them periodically.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You said that you wouldn't believe everything you read, anything
you want to clarify, anything that you can clarify.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I mean, I'm not the type to sit there and
point by point, but look, there's various markets across the
country that I've shown viability to hosting a WNBA team.
When we now the most recent reached an expansion, we
had thirteen cities bidding for a WNBA team. Obviously we
announced three with Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia. There's other cities
that have been great homes for our league. There are
(28:14):
processes for relocations, so nothing beyond that. But it's like
every league has a process that w is no different
and you need a process because then it would be
chaos if you let anybody move to anywhere they wanted
to go. And there's some great markets out there, and
we just went through a huge process to determine which
ones we would give the next X teams to and
we decided on three. We kind of set out thinking
(28:36):
sixteen teams and we went to eighteen because there was
huge demand and these were really really legitimate ownership groups
who are going to be all in on investing in
the ws So that's what we look for when we
look for, you know, bringing in new owners into the league.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, and the three new owners through twenty twenty thirty
have NBA affiliations. Is that something where the league is
given priority versus the indepid it groups that are trying
to come in and.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Get teams yeah, I get asked that a lot, and
there's no exact bias, but the factors we look at
our arena, practice facility, investment, long term viability in that market.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We look at demographics and psychographics and college teams based
in that market, and current current WNBA viewership and fandom
because we know who's buying our merch now that we
have a whole data, we have data scientists, we know
who's watching viewership. You know, like the Bay Area, I
mean scored so high on all those We had about
twenty five metrics and we put one hundred cities through.
(29:35):
There's twenty five metrics. So I'm like, I'm a real
data geek, Christina, and we've got a ton of data
on how we think teams will be successful. That's what
we used when we granted Golden State. Obviously, Portland and
Toronto are unaffiliated NBA teams, and then the next three
will be affiliated, so we'll have about half and half
affiliated and unaffiliated. But you know, the arena in the
(29:56):
practice facility do mean a lot because our free agency
is so active now and what are players looking for?
A player experience an arena and fan base and practice
facility and everything you would invest in the player experience
are an important part of that. So we want these
teams to be successful, and so I think some of
those NBA teams we just grant a franchise to really
(30:16):
have a great platform to spring off of to be
successful as a WNBA with a w NBA franchise and.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Very quickly unrivaled. This week they announced that their league
is now valued at over three hundred million dollars, which
is up in just the short nine month span. Obviously unrivaled.
They've been planning this league for several years. But what
are some things that the league can take away from,
you know, the success that that league has had just
nine months.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Again, we raised our capital.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
A few years ago. You need to be you need
to have a financial capital to hire human capital to
make yourself successful. I know they just announced another capital raise,
so back to back like again. Usually you do a
capital raise in three to five years, you deploy it
and grow. They they announced it another one, which is
where the valuation is coming off to. But you know,
we are all in on supporting women's basketball in this
(31:06):
country and beyond. You know, we've got a lot of
global upside for the w NBA. So I mean, I think,
you know, obviously, our star players are playing both in
Unrivaled and in AU and some still go overseas and
some live overseas if they play overseas in the off season.
So we want our players to have as much opportunity
to grow, and I think it's great when Unrivaled's done.
(31:28):
But again, we're focused on continued growth of the w
during our season, and obviously we've been supportive of them
and Athletes Unlimited and other others as they give opportunities
for our players to play in the off season.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The league is at forty four regular season games. Can
we see a potential extension of the regular season in
the future.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, I think as you think about the growth and
you think about, you know, wanting to maintain this balance
between games of consequence our footprint. You know, there's some
people think we shouldn't go too far into the NBA
and then NFL seasons, and there's others that we should.
We already obviously going to the NFL season, especially with
our playoffs coming up in the NFL just launching, so
(32:11):
we balance all that. We use data for that too.
What percentage of NFL fans are also WNBA fans, and
same thing with the NBA college basketball hockey. You know,
there's so much data you can use to determine what
the right footprint. We obviously are challenged every other year
with an international competition like the Olympics or the Feeble
World Cup. So next year we'll have to break for
the Feeble World Cup before our playoffs and then kind
(32:34):
of come back and finish the season in playoffs. So
so again we work with FOEBA, we work with the USOPC,
we work with you know, the Olympic schedule, USA Basketball.
So there's a lot of constituents in figuring out how
many games we should play. But I'm thrilled that we
are able to play a year like this year without
an Olympic year of fever World Cup where we could
get our max forty four under the current CBA in
(32:56):
But there's a huge demand for our game, and you
saw it with preseason game and you sold during the
season with our most ever reviewed ABC CBS season and
our most attended season ever, So there is a demand there.
So we want to balance that with the footprint and
what's right for our players and player health and safety.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
As a fan of the game commissioner, and you just
brought up the preseason. Are there plans to go to
other countries to continue to have those preseason stints and
exhibition games with different national teams from around the world.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, we would love to do something like that. Again,
it's an allocation of capital decision because it's expensive just
to fly to these countries, let alone put on an
entire tent pole event. So we'd love to do that.
That's what we're strategizing right now. And we'll use this
all season strategized next year with the Feber World Cup,
not going to probably do that, but hopefully in twenty
(33:48):
seven prior to the twenty eight Olympics, we'll have a
great footprint to blow out maybe some global game strategy.
But it can't just be like we're going to play
a game here or there. It's got to be a
strategy that's integrated with growing our players, fan bases, growing
their brands. So you'll see us in the next year
doing a lot of player oriented you know, attending in
(34:10):
xus countries to build their brands, so that will be
that our fan base is ready when we come over
there and it's not so hard to do like it is,
and I've admired the global game strategy the NBA. They
were out ahead of all the other sports leads who
are now doing it, like the NFL and the NHL,
but the NBA has been doing it in a long time,
so we're taking some cues from how they've been successful.
(34:30):
But they've grown grown a whole global game strategy, but
they've also grown a whole global platform strategy. And one
of those things is like Nike taking I remember Kobe
Bryant step On Marbury to Asia and growing their brands
there before they then did games there. So there's something
to be said about that strategy that we're working with
also our corporate partners and our media partners on what
(34:51):
the best way to grow that strategy is. So that's
that's definitely next up once we get our collective partnering
agreement done.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And lastly, looking ahead to the future, what is your
vision for the WNBA's future and the impact you hope
to leave as you know, the first ever commissioner of
the league.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, and I don't think a lot about legacy or impact.
Everybody asked me that question, especially because knowing that I
spent thirty three years somewhere else before I came here.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And that I'm not going to work forever hopefully.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, but yeah, I think just setting this league up
for decades. And one of the things that I every
time I'm in Arena Christina and you see it, because
you're in a lot of our arenas, to see these
young girls and boys watch these players, and some moms
and dads are bringing those kids for the first time
to a w game and not other professional sports. I mean,
(35:42):
it's incredible the experience that our arenas and our teams
and our players are now giving to that next generation.
And we know that next generation that sports is the
big uniter. They're growing up in a very divided society.
But what does sports do? Unites And there's nothing better
than when you see these young kids and these teenagers
(36:02):
and now young adults high fiving the older fan in
our arena, the diverse fan in our arena. It literally
is a uniter in a otherwise very divided time. So
that's what I hope to leave back is that we
brought you know, tens of thousands of fans in arenas
every night, and then ten plus million fans into the
game for the first time and gave them a great
(36:24):
experience that helped them, you know, with kind of all
the societal stresses that they have, but sports can be
that place to get away from it and to unite with,
you know, every type of person that's in our arena.
I always say, not only do we have the most
diverse league in sports, we have the most diverse fans
in sports. And it's so great to sit in those
arenas and see that fandom. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Absolutely, sports bring us all together. Commissioner Ingleboro, I want
to thank you for coming on in case you missed
it this week, and we are super excited about the
playoffs WNBA fans. The playoffs start on Sunday, September fourteenth,
so make sure you tune in to the WNBA postseason.
Thank you so much for joining us this week.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Thank you, Christina, and look forward to seeing you on
the road to the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Sure thing have a great one.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Thank you you too.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
In case you missed it with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Khristina Williams
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