February 26, 2025 • 47 mins
In this special crossover episode of In Case You Missed It Khristina is joined by friends of the show and Levels to This hosts Sheryl Swoopes and Terrika Foster-Brasby for an unfiltered conversation recorded at NBA All-Star Weekend.
The trio dives into the challenges of balancing public perception with personal authenticity, the double standards women face in sports and media, and the impact of social media on athletes and journalists alike. From viral moments to breaking barriers, this episode explores the evolving landscape of women’s basketball and its cultural significance.
Want more women’s basketball scoop? Follow the show on Instagram @ICYMIwithKW and X @ICYMIwithKW and for more on Khristina follow her on Instagram @khristinawilliams
Let us know what you think of the show by leaving a rating and a review!
CREDITS
Executive Producers:
Nikki Ettore
Jessie Katz
Tyler Klang
Jonathan Strickland
Producer:
Mike Coscarelli
Producer & Editor:
Tari Harrison
Host:
Khristina Williams
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an
iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Hey, y'all, welcome to In Case You Missed
It with Christina Williams. And I know it's been a
little bit of time, but I'm so happy to be
back and on this special edition of In Case You
(00:23):
Missed It. This is going to be a very, very
fun conversation with my girls, Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby,
hosts of Levels to this podcast on Iheartwomen's Sports Network. Yeah,
we had a lot of fun with this episode. We
recorded it live from NBA All Star in San Francisco
at Club thirty in partnership with Stephen Curry's Unanimous Media Company,
(00:46):
and it was a lot of fun to bring women's
sports to NBA All Star. The conversation is on the
topic of knowing who you are, and it was really
inspired by a dinner that Cheryl trikan I had the
previous night before we recorded the conversation. Not going to
get into that because you have to listen to the episode,
but I think that this is an important conversation, especially
(01:08):
as women in a male dominated space as black women
in the sports industry. I think that you know this
conversation is something that needed to be had, and I
know this isn't like the typical In Case You Missed
the episodes with the news and headlines, but I think
that you will truly truly enjoy this discussion. So without
(01:29):
further ado, here's this episode of In Case You Missed
It with Christina Williams, and it's crossing over with The
Levels to This podcast featuring Chryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Good morning or good afternoon. I don't know what time
it is. I'm still on East Coast time, so out
of my head it's afternoon, but it could very well
be morning.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
But we're here. Give a round of a boss for yourself. Yeah,
thank you for being here. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I am Tureka Foster Brasby, host of the Levels to
this podcast, and I am incited to have.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Because I was to say it and I said, oh no,
she wants to introduce herself. I'm Christina Williams.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm a host of In Case You miss It with
Christina Williams.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yes, yes, so I'm not even gonna let you look
at me, because I'm getting the eyes and I am
Cheryl Swoops. I co host levels to this with the
one and only Tik across the Bras.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
The Cheryl Swoops time champion, the three time Olympian. Don't
play on her name?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Did you know who she is? Do you know? Stop
it stopping.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
We're very excited to be here today at NBA All Star.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We are looking for.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
A good day of fun and a good day of
excitement for the fans. But you know what, I'll be
the first to tell you guys that sometimes it is
incredibly difficult to be in these spaces because you have
moments where people recognize you. They recognize you from the podcast,
they recognize you from the different things that you do.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I know you guys have people who recognize you all
the time.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And there are moments where you're like, you know what,
I just kind of want to chill a little bit, right,
Like I want to have a drink. I want to
kick back, put my feet up, dance a little bit,
shake a little something something. And then there are times
where it's like you feel like maybe you can't do
that because you don't want people who see you or
envision you in a certain way to then look at
you differently or have things to say because they only
(03:32):
see you a certain way and they don't give you
an opportunity to kind of be yourself and enjoy yourself.
And so today we're kind of gonna talk a little
bit about what it means to balance.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Being who you are and what you do and.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
How those two things are completely separate. And Christina, I'm
gonna start with you because we had a moment recently
where we were like, Hey, we're gonna go out, We're
gonna have fun, but then was just a little bit
of reservation. And I think one thing, one thing that
reminds me of that is even like the women who
(04:08):
we cover in the WNBA, and how there are moments
where we see them on the court, we see what
they do, we see how they ball, and then we
have to remind ourselves, and maybe not us, but like
people have to remind themselves, like what you are and
what you do on the court is not necessarily what
you are and who you are off the court, in
(04:30):
your personal life and your personal endeavors. And so I'll
start with you and go around a shurel about what
it means to try to find a balance.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Okay, we gotta go there. We are absolutely going there.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, last night was a really real experience for me
because I feel like I'm still very new in this space,
although I've been in it for about seven eight years,
and so a lot of me wants to protect who
I am, that public facing image versus my private life,
and so I did. I did have reservations about going
(05:07):
out last night and people seeing me outside of work,
the work environment, and I guess it's something you're laughing, Shuryl,
But it's real.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
It's real.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
But no, it's just something that I'm learning to balance.
I'm not there yet. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not
there yet. You're just still learning learning how to navigate it,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And Errol, for you having literally so much of your
life public right with being a superstar athlete, with literally
somebody can pick up Google and feel like they can
find everything about you.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
You know, how do you, in your own.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Way trying to find a balance of you being Churl
the basketball player, the Hall of Famer, and then you
just being Churro from Texas, from West Texas. I, first
of all, I think it's hard because I think if
you ask even people in the room, is.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It fair to say that what you do at work,
in your workplace, on the court or whatever, you have
to be that same person outside of work. Personally, I
don't think it's fair because what I do outside of
my job should be able. I should be able to
(06:31):
be me. And I think one of the biggest issues
with that though, when people are trying to portray you
as being like, oh my gosh, he or she they're
like on all the time and they're great, and they're
this and that, Like, I think you give a false
sense to little kids growing up of everything's perfect, everything's great,
(06:53):
because it's not. Do we always make the right choices?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Do we always make the right decision?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
No, So I think it's.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Unfair to have those expectations. But for myself personally, like
it or not fair or unfair, I always know that
there's somebody somewhere watching me just to see am I
going to f up? So they can be able to
go and say, you see, she did mess up. And
I'll be the first to say, yeah, I do make mistakes,
(07:21):
But I try to be very cognizant of my surroundings
where I'm at what I'm doing, because I know people
are always going to judge, even though that's not our
place to do that. But I always want to have
that not a perfect image, but I always want to
be that person where when especially little girls, when they
look at me, they can say, you know what, like,
(07:44):
I'm real. I'm just going to be a real person
regardless of where I'm at, what I'm doing, and I
want to be able to show that to them and
to let them know that it is okay to not
always be right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's okay to not always be on.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think we put way too much pressure on our
cells at times to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Can I shake the table a little bit? Shake it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I'm about to shake the table, the hair up in
the shaped table a little bit, shake, shake, shake.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Do you think do you think men have that expectation?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Absolutely not like like y'all have no idea how they
don't you have it at I don't think so. Like
you can lose all your hair and you will still
be considered that guy, you know what I mean? You
can gain weight, yes, and no one's gonna say I'm
not gonna date that, yeah, because he's gained We like
y'all are just y'all, if we put on two pounds
(08:33):
hundred percent officially become the worst people in the world.
And we're overweight and we're obese. If we lose a
single strand of hair, we all of a sudden have
now missed the societal standards of what beauty looks like.
And so if we go out and have too much
to drink and get caught on social media, then it's, oh,
my god, woman, thou aren't loosed like what in the world, right,
(08:56):
And so it's it's so interesting, how And this isn't
to play the gender card, but it is to just
demonstrate just how much more difficult it is at times
to balance your personality and your profession. And I think
that's relatable in any case, Like even when we have
to sometimes code switch, right, like we have to sometimes
(09:20):
you know, I can hit you see what I'm saying,
and I have past because you know, I can absolutely
have a conversation with my friends, and there are certain
terms and things that I can say with my friends
that I can't necessarily say at work, and not because
those things are bad, but just because the perception of
it is just so different, right, And I just I
(09:42):
think it's important to put an emphasis on just how
difficult that can be sometimes. But you know, for both
of you and whoever wants to answer can answer. Are
there moments where you're just like, for lack of better terms,
f it like I don't care you know what someone's
gonna say, or like you knows it. I'm gonna I'm
gonna do this, I'm gonna put on this outfit, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Wear this week. I'm gonna save.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
This line because it's just it is who it is.
And if someone else doesn't have the ability to compartmentalize
me personally versus me professionally, like that's with them.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But I have found though that.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
The older I get, the more I get to a
point of the I really don't care that idea because
but you know why, because I sleep very well at night,
and and what I mean by that is I'm I'm
genuinely a really good person. I treat people well, just.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Don't come at me sideways.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And so because of that, I yeah, I just feel
like we as a society, we just worry about other
people's business too much at times, and we're not we're
not allowed to have our own. I can't have my
my own thoughts and opinions, Like you feel like, not
(11:03):
you personally, but you feel like you should be able
to tell me what my own opinion should be about something, right,
And so instead of going back and forth with people
about whatever it is, I just get to a point
to where I'm like, you know what, whatever, you got it?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, I just chime in on that of course.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So I mean, obviously we're public facing figures right in
the media space and the sports space as.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
A Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
How much do you think social media and parasocial relationships
factor into those expectations?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
My god, so much?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Like there are so funny story My husband doesn't like
so like he is cool with social media, but he
don't really like social.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Media at all.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Right, Like if you look on his on his social pages,
it's nothing but like memes, jokes and the Philadelphia Eagles,
Like that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That's why you're gonna see.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I almost didn't even know it was him because he
changed his profile picture to Jalen Hurts, and I was like,
who is this?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Who is this person?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
But he doesn't like social Me on the other hand,
part of it is because of my job that I
have to continually be on social media and have to
continually post. But also because I think social is what
you make it, right, It's a negative place if you
make it and you allow it to be a negative place.
I don't allow it to be a negative space for me.
But with that being said, because I post about, you know, family,
(12:23):
husband things like that. When I'm out and I'm with
my husband, people think they know him. So they're always like,
oh my god, I know you know you're you're you're
a tourists and you and you like the eagles and
how do you blah blah blah blah, and they just
like kind of start conversations and granted he's not like
a rude person, so he will engage in conversation, but
when we're done, he's like.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Who the hell is that? How do they know me?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And so I think those parasocial relationships really do speak
a lot to how we interact and how people interact
and have expectations of us because they think they know
who we are and what we're about based on what
we share and what we post on social media.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And I think all of us can.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Say that we're all layered, right, like where none of
us are one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
All of us have different parts, different pieces.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And I even think about that as it relates to
women in the WNBA, right, Like we look at players
in the WNBA and we say, you know, oh, djn
A Carrington, she's beautiful, she has these lashes, she has
these hair. But you remember there was one time last
season where there was a conversation where folks were like,
oh my god, her nails are too long, like that's
ghetto blah blah blah blah blah. Right, and it's like
(13:33):
there's these these secret things.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
That we have.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And truthfully, if you you know, really got to know
Dja or really got a chance to like follow her
outside of what she does on the court, you'd see
she's one of the kindest people, super silly. Her nails
actually aren't long at all naturally hers not with the
crylic And it's it's one of those things where it's
like you think you know something, you set this expectation,
(13:58):
you set this stereotype, and it's completely different from who
you really are. And social plays a huge, huge Rollinette.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, I'll just add a little bit to that. I
think the one thing when you said social can be
really good or can be really bad, but to me,
it is what you make it. But social media is
the one place though where like it gives people a
place and a space to where they feel relevant, but
(14:29):
also a place where they feel like they can come
for you behind a keyboard or on a cell phone.
And that's where I've just gotten to a point to
where one you just take a break, Like I have
to mentally just walk away from social media at times
because people feel like they really know you based off
(14:50):
of what they see on social media. And I think
if you spend your time getting so caught up in
reading all the posts and all the repost and tweets
and about yourself specifically, like it could play a huge
part in what you feel mentally, and a lot a
(15:12):
lot of people aren't mentally strong enough to deal with
the things that are said about you on social media.
So that's where I've gotten to a point to where
I'm like, you know, it's it's my it's my life.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I absolutely think that there's levels to having boundaries
and that balance. And for me personally, I mean this
time last year, I spent a lot of screen time
on my phone. Breaking news is a very hefty business. Y'all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And so this year I kind of took a step
back because it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Was mentally taxing to be on social media, to want
to be first and all those things. So for me,
it was just about taking time personally for myself and
to evaluate, Okay, how am I going to do this,
coming up with a strategy turning my phone off after
a certain hour and.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Be like, yeah, this can wait until tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think that sometimes we always think that we have
to do things instantly, and sometimes it's okay to just
hold something off for the next day and take that
time to yourself.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Do you remember when we did the We did an
article for the Slam exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, we did an article for Slam magazine and one
of the questions was what is your screen time? And
I never paid attention to my screen time until that
particular article, and.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
That twenty one hours was my screen time? It said
sixteen hours, and I was like, twenty one hours.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
There are twenty four hours in a day.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So only three and those only three hours you weren't
on your phone was probably when you.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Were sleep sleeping, breaking breaking news, y'all. Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Though, that can't that can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's that's the point, And that's the point. It wasn't
It wasn't. I think that's exactly the point.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But it's it's so consuming, like especially for you in
that space, Like you know, I think about you, and
I think about like Woa, how he was the breaking
news guy. Now there's Shams and you know, Rachel Gallian
and and just there's so much consumption in that space
that again, it becomes difficult to maybe balance who you
(17:13):
are in a personal life and just you know, what
you should be doing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
What does Christina enjoy? What does Cheryl enjoy? What does
Tea enjoy?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That doesn't have to do with you know, basketball or
sports or media, But I just think that, like again,
it's relatable to most people. I mean, there are lawyers
who spend so much time in a courtroom that you know,
you're like, what do you what does.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Your family do?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What are your what happens when you're not there? There
are doctors who spend so much time in the hospital.
What do you do when you're not you know, in
an emergency situation or when you're not at work, Like, well,
how do you how do you turn that thing off.
And then there's something that you said, Cheryl that really
stands out to me. When you say some people aren't
mentally taxing, I mean some people aren't mentally strong to
(17:55):
deal with that.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I'll give you a perfect example.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Last year, I did a show and I did a
show with someone is this girl?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, so I did. I did a show last year
with this woman named Pearl Davis. And if you're familiar
with Pearl Davis, Pearl Davis is a very very strong
right wing girl who has a lot of opinions that
I disagree with. Right But I didn't know I was
getting ready to do this show with Pearl, Okay, I
(18:27):
I wasn't aware. I didn't know what til I show
it up and I said, oh shit. I was like, oh, oh,
that's a good thing. Don't worry about it, that's a
good thing. Don't don't google her, please, don't even tear
your algorithm up like that. But the point is I
also wasn't completely familiar with her, but I had just
seen a couple of things and I did a show
(18:47):
with her, and I was very excited about this show.
And I posted a clip for this show on Twitter
and girl.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
They ate me up.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
They ate her alive. I was like me, everybody loves me.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I posted that I was doing a show, and we
posted a clip of the show and it was me
and I was sitting next to her, And it just
so happened to be the same day that Caitlyn Clark
was asked about Dja Carrington, and I had tweeted that
I thought it was disappointing that Caitlyn didn't take the
opportunity initially to dispel the notion and the rumors and
(19:23):
the conversation about racism and like her fan base, and
that same day I posted my clip of this woman
sitting next to me without you got the you got
the audacity to talk about a twenty one year old
Caitlyn Clark and here you are sitting on stage with
(19:45):
Pearl Davis. And so in my mind, I'm like, oh,
but I mean we have different views, but I'm pretty
sure I could shift the view.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
They were like, no.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Boo, accountability taken accountability taking it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And I had to then be like, you know what,
after I quit the show, like four days in, I said,
this is four days in, y'all, but I said, this
is a moment where I had to be a bit
vulnerable because they were valid in the things that they
were saying. Now, they didn't all say it the right way,
you know, but it really had to show me, you know,
(20:17):
how mentally tough you can be to take criticism because
as an analyst, I criticize players all the time. As
an analyst, I have to tell you when you're not
playing well. There may be times that I say things
that people will be like, yeah, Tea, that's a little harsh.
So I had to sit in my moment and allow
those same people who I criticized to be like t
(20:39):
That wasn't a smart move, you know, And it took
a little bit of vulnerability because I don't like seeing
myself being talked about like that.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But I had to own that space.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So to your point, it does take a lot of
mental toughness to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
But I have a question to.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That, all shit, Well, it's really a general question, okay,
but why can't you sit on the same stage with
someone that doesn't have It doesn't have to be in particular,
but someone who doesn't have the same views as you
and have a conversation Because personally, I feel like that's
(21:14):
how we grow, That's how we change. It doesn't mean
I'm gonna agree with you, but at least we can
sit and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I think to answer that question in a general sense,
not to get to specific Yeah, in a general sense,
I agree with you one hundred percent. I think the
way that we may change and the way that we
impact people are the way that we do developed actual
solutions to some of the things that we discussed is
to have genuine conversations.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
The keyword in that is genuine. This was not a
genuine scenario.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
This was a scenario where the producer was trying to
like get cleared, and so there was no way that
anything I said I shouldn't been on that stage.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
There was.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But but generally speaking, yeah, that's how you I got you.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Christina, has there been moments where maybe you felt a
little mentally vulnerable on social media or where you've like, dang,
I kind of gotta eat that, or I gotta take that,
or maybe not because you really you really do it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Rage almost what I had to put some people on
a summer jam screen because I am not the person
to clap back at anyone on social media, say what
you want.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm gonna just ignore it, lock you mute, you never see.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You again in the algorithm, and I'm all good, but
you remember.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So there was one night I was getting ready for
bed and maya good friend Tarika, was like, grow into
your phone. Yeah, someone's chat leaked and there's mesages about you.
And long story short, there was a group of white
male reporters in the women's basketball space. They had a
(23:08):
private group chat and it was filled with racist, misogynistic messages.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
My name was thrown in there.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
They were talking about black media and journalists in the
space and it was really really bad. And so I
was like, oh, I can just ignore this like I
ignore everything else and when it comes to my way,
or I can confront it face on. And so I
have a pretty good following on Twitter X and I
was like, you know what, I'm gonna put them on
the Summer Jam screen because people deserve to know who
(23:37):
these people are and what they really think. And so
I did it. I pressed in. I was like, oh,
you're on the Summer Jam screen now. And this group
of journalists was essentially exposed, and I know they were
wondering how the heck did she get that text message? Well,
I'm a newsbreaker to space, I can I know and
see everything. I get everything, one of the things that
(24:00):
I don't break. But so yeah, I put them on
the screen and it really forced that group of men
to be held accountable. And I think that the w
Twitter space, it opened their eyes to what we have
to face as women of color in this space. And yeah,
it was something that you kind of put under the
(24:23):
rug because women's sports, you want to advance women's sports,
had all costs. But to me, I was like, this
is not okay, and we need to have this really
an ugly conversation. And it was all over the news headlines.
I was getting calls to be interviewed on multiple news stations.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Even the person who that group was working for did
not initially want to take accountability for the things that
they were saying.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
His employees were saying about about her.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And I've never met any of these people when I'm
in the media workroom. They don't say hi to me,
never out of any conversation, and they've never worked with me,
don't know me from a hole in the wall, nothing,
And they had so much to say about who they
thought I was, or the privilege that I have or whatever.
I worked fucking hard. I've worked so hard to get
(25:12):
to where I am and I don't take it for granted.
But to those people, they thought that, you know, she's
she's a black woman, she was just given this, and
that is not the case to my journey or how
I ended up to where I am. So yeah, I'm
not gonna say the name, but yeah, and having me
the company was like, I don't think that I want
to make a statement about this, and he just did
(25:35):
not want to hold his employees.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Accountable until it hit him publicly where the.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Sports industry was like, no, you have to say something,
and then he said it, but it was it didn't
feel genuine.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, myself reached out to him. Cindy Burunson reached out
to him. There were many of us who reached out
who was just like, you have to say something. It
is not good to just be silent on this, because
these are your employees and they represent you and they
represent your brand. But I think it's just adding to
the vulnerability that we have in wanting to keep our
(26:08):
personal life personal and our professional life professional, because if
they could say things negative like that about you as
a professional. Imagine what the group chat would have looked like.
And I'm gonna tell you this type of friend I am.
When I got that text, I was like, yeah, I
could leak it, But at the same time, Christina's my friend,
so I'm not going I'm not gonna sit on this text.
(26:29):
I'm gonna send it to her. If she wants to
leak it, let her do it. If she doesn't want to,
that's cool too, because it is about her. But as
another person creative journalist in the space and someone who's
very protective of knowing what it takes to.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Be in this space, I was like, I'm not about
to just sit on this text.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think that's the one thing that I was afraid
of was falling into that angry black woman trope. Yeah,
that follows so many of us in this industry, and
I was just like, I'm not going to say anything
I don't like it is what it is like.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
If they think that, that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
But at some point you have to stand up for
yourself no matter what people will think about you. And
so for me, that was my moment of you have
to speak out, you have to stand up for yourself
so absolutely, and I appreciate it because also taught me
that I have a whole community people who have my
back and are very supportive of me in the industry.
I had GMS reach out to me, executives in the
(27:22):
league like no, like we really rock with you.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Do you need anything? I'm here.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So it just let me know that I have a
great community in the women's basketball space and that knows
people have to be health accountable for Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
No, thank god you did. But I will say this though.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Sure for you, it feels like you are also sometimes
often caught between a rock and a hard place because
as a former player, you know and understand better than
any of us on the stage what it means to
be on a championship team, what it means to be
in a locker room, what it means to be.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
An athlete, and building blocks.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But then you also share the commonality of us of
now being in an analyst and now being a media personality,
and if feels that it becomes increasingly difficult the more
people get itchy Twitter fingers. To maintain your professionalism as
an analyst and also stand up for players when they
(28:14):
have been done wrong by fans, by media, by others.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I
think you.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Know, first of all, being a former NBA player, like
they are allowed to say whatever they want to say
about the game today, the current players today, and people
see that as, oh my goodness, well if this person whoever,
(28:43):
that former player is right, if they said it, then
it must be true.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It must be right.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
But the other side of that is as a woman,
as a former player, it's almost like we're not entitled
to have opinions about the game and where the game
is to or about certain players. And that to me
is so mind boggling because like I will sit here
(29:09):
today and put my resume up against any former NBA
player period. Well, and I'm only saying that because if
you have a right to talk about the game, then
so should I.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And for me, it's never personal.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
But it's always about wanting the game to be better,
wanting the players to be better, wanting people to understand
where we've come from, where we've been, and where we're going.
So yeah, there was quite a bit. And you know,
the funny thing is tea and when you talk about
social media again, people can only go and pick certain
(29:49):
parts of interviews you've done or certain parts of a
podcast clip, and that's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
What they're gonna post.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
And so then the world goes crazy like, oh, well
she said this, but no, did you listen to the
entire clip or the entire episode to know exactly what
we were talking about. So it does get to a
point at times where it's like, like, what what am
I really doing? And is this where I want to be?
Is this a space I want to be in? But yeah,
(30:20):
because I feel like if anyone has earned that right
to talk about the game and to talk about the
players and to talk about what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Today, that I should be able to do that. Yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
But there are people though, that are like, no, you
don't have that right.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Le'm me just tell you.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, I will run through a brick wall for both
of you, and I turned off play about them right
back to media. And so there's been times in the
last year where I had to hold some of my
media friends accountable because they've written articles about you that
were not pleasant or didn't have the full context of
the story, and you know, I checked them on it, like, hey, like,
(30:57):
why are you writing this one piece to create this narrative?
And I think that especially in the w NBA space,
we've seen how that can play out with the Christine
Brennan situation.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
For those of you who don't know, there's a US.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Today columnist, Christine Brennan, and she's writing a book about
Kaitlyn Clark. But also she's been in Indianapolis's past year
covering the fever and Caitlyn Clark and the whole thing
with dj N. Carrington came up with the ipoke and
she just sensationalized the ipoke and yeah, a lot of
it was not an ipope. It wasn't it was a
(31:36):
but anyway, it's just how media have been been creating
these narratives about the black players and the bigger context
of how that can play out. No, absolutely, I think
(32:00):
the difference between me and Christina is Christina will like,
very politely and very casually and very professionally say hey,
you're out of pocket. So Rika will absolutely clasp back
and be.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Like, yore talking too fast. Because I'm from Detroit, I'd
be like, hey, y'all are you talking to me?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
The whole.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Friendships seven mile will come out. You'll be like Eminem
go to down all of it. The whole thing will
come out like it's just which is very different. And
so you know, I say all the time, I was like,
I'm not your average journalist. Now guys like I will.
But I think sometimes it's necessary because for that very reason,
Like people again take what they think, they see, what
they think they hear, and they will continue to push
(32:47):
that button if.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You allow them.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And of course there's only so much you can do
from behind a keyboard, right, But what I find hilarious
is that when we are out in public and we
are at different venues, Like I remember specifically someone tweeting
something crazy about Sheryl and then we were at an
event for Final four and they were like, can we.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Have your photo? And I was like, ooh, should I
pull the tweet?
Speaker 4 (33:14):
See I'm the one that I'll be like, but no,
keep that same energy you had on social media. But
here's here's the biggest one for me though, because a
lot of people want to take they want to use
social media and they want to take whatever and turn
it into a black versus white thing.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It's not that at all.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's because one thing that I am always gonna do
is stand up for players, period. And I remember this
past season when uh yeah, when Chicago Sky played Indiana,
Diamond Deshiel's who foul Caitlin and which it was a
foul they call the foul blah blah blah ah. That
(33:56):
so game's over and Diamond's getting all all these ugly
tweets and messages. So for those who don't know, like
Diamond de Shills was really sick, like very very sick.
She had a tumor and I remember, like some of
the fans were tweeting like, I hope the tumor comes
back and you die from it next time. So I responded, right,
(34:20):
I responded and said Diamond, like we're here, we got
your back, keep being you, blah blah blah. Well, they
they thought that I was talking about the foul because
for me at that point, it wasn't even about basketball,
but it's about a person, a human being in her life.
And so then because I said what I said to her,
then they came for me right like, oh, you're just
(34:42):
a racist, and you don't. I don't respond to everybody,
but there are certain times like when I have time
on that day and this day, I had time time.
So I'm more of a tarika, not a Christina, God
bless you.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
For it's not wrong with being a Christina, y'all.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I just you know, I guess the bottom line for
me is and you see it on the NBA side,
but for me, it's about like these young women and men,
like they work their asses off to get to where
they are and doing what they do. And how dare
you feel like you can just sit on your computer
(35:19):
or your phone and just just go in and say
some of the craziest, dumbest things about someone that you
don't even know.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, and you don't even.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Know what her story is and the journey she's been
through to just to walk again, right, And that's where
I was coming from, like I know your story.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Don't let all of what these.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
People are saying about you on social media like take
you to a not so good place, because it's very
easy for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
This it actually reminds me of a conversation that Christina
and I were having yesterday when we were talking about
like getting people an opportunity to know players and know
the game before right now, like right now, how women's
sports is like the thing, right, Women's basketball is the
thing right when you look at viewership numbers. You can
see that NBA viewership is actually down this year, w
(36:11):
NBA viewership is up right, And that's and that's a wonderful. Yes,
please give a clap for that, because that is how
long did we wait to get to this space. I'm
actually thinking it's really funny that we're shading the NBA
at NBA also, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But is that where we are? That's where we are.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
But I say I bring all that to say there
is an opportunity that is available for us to be
able to educate fans in new fans right, because there's
this thing that they say, we're like we're gatekeeping. I'm like,
first of all words meeting things, we're not gaatekeeping. We
are not hindering you from buying tickets, we are not
hindering you from using Google.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
You can do whatever you want to do in the
women's sports space.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
But there's this thing that people say, like we're gatekeeping,
or that we are not well to new women's sports
fans WNBA fans specifically, and I don't think that's the case.
I am one who thinks that we are very welcoming
to women's basketball fans and We want people to enjoy
the game. We also want you to respect the history. Right,
(37:17):
if you've been an NBA fan for five years, you're
not gonna come out here talking about John Morant is
the goat.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
You gonna be like, wait a minute, did you.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Forget like all the people who before you know what
I mean, you'd playing wait dunk contest?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
You do forget Vince car existed? Like what do we do?
Speaker 4 (37:35):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Like?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
There are things? There are levels.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
There are levels, hello, Like there are levels to how
we get here.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
And I think our issue all.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The pun intended on that, by the way, but I
think that there are there are Our issue has just
simply been before we got to where we are in
twenty twenty five, there was a whole slew of people
that came from nineteen ninety seven to this point, and
that slew of people have to be recognized and respected,
(38:06):
and those stories aren't being told enough to where new
fans have to be open to wanting to listen and
learn those stories.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
And it it definitely has a part with coverage.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We know coverage with different than and investment was different
then than it is now. But it's available, like you
can YouTube previous All Star games. You can YouTube, and
you can google. You know where we started, how we
got here. You get google that nineteen ninety six Olympic team,
you know what I mean. Like, I was so excited
to see that doc Cheryl at thirty for thirty. It
(38:41):
was so good, and I'm just like, this is my
childhood in front of me. Not to make you feel
the way, but I was like, I was like, yeah,
I was actually flexing low key.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
I was like, hey, y'all see Cheryl, that's my girl,
my girl.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Speech.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, y'all
see Dawn. I'm about to text.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
But it's just like, those stories have to be told
in order for folks to understand why we're so protective
of the game and why we will continue to be
protective of this space. It's not one that we're going
to let people enter with false narratives. It's one that
we want you to come and enjoy, but we want
you to come and enjoy with a clear vision of
(39:26):
where and how we got here.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, because we we want you to come and be
a part of something we've been building from day one,
right and to be excited about it and to support
the league, right, And it's so okay for you to
have a favorite player. We all do, right, Asia Wilson
is my favorite player, right get away? Yeah right, But
(39:50):
I just because I want to tell this story real
quickly before I have to go.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
So I went this morning to do a toast for.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Asia Wilson, who's getting her own to Nature shoe finally,
And what I said.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
To her was yeah, seriously yes.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But what I said to her was, Sabrina and Escu
has a shoe. But Asia Wilson the first black female
in thirty years since I got my shoes. But you
know what's really interesting about this moment where we are,
and it's not just Asia but Sabrina with a shoe
(40:27):
and Asia with a shoe, and Caitlyn getting a shoe,
Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Now.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Back in the day in nineteen ninety seven, when Nike
gave me my first shoe, people looked at them like,
what in the hell are y'all thinking giving a female
her own shoe. No one's gonna buy it, no one's
gonna wear it. But like Nike thought outside the box,
and now you have all these different brands and people
right that are like.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Oh, women's basketball is the thing.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
So I was telling Asia in ninety seven when I
signed with Nike, Nike didn't even have a women's sports
marketing division. It was just like a here you go,
here's the room, do what you gotta do with it.
And so what really excites me today about where we
are is it's not just the things that the women
are getting on the court. You have all these women
(41:18):
and brands who are saying we see you, we hear you,
we need you.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
So you have the Angel Reeses, the.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Caitlan Clarks, the DJN Carrington's, the Rakia Jackson's, the Asia
like doing things that we only could dream of. And
my very first Nike contract when I signed in ninety
seven was like one hundred and seventy five.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Thousand dollars wow, which then I was like, oh my god,
I've made it right.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
And today to see a player like an Asia and
a Caitlin Clark signing a twenty million dollar contract, yeah, like,
I don't even know what to say about that, because
I never thought that I would see this day when
we started the w back at ninety seven, where we're
(42:09):
sitting here actually talking about how far the game has
come and these million dollar contracts that female basketball players
are now signing. That's what ninety seven to where we
are today, that's what it was for us. It was
about being able to be in this moment and share
in this moment with everything that women's basketball is experiencing today.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And I was to say, from a media perspective, I'm
so grateful for Iheartwomen's Sports back because even seven years
ago it was just so unheard of. Right to have
a network like this exists where you can have women's
sports programming every single day, available shows, available, opportunities available
(42:56):
for people in the media to be able to amplify
the stories of these athletes. And now that the game
is growing and the momentum is, you know, picking up,
we have iHeart Women's Sports. We have just women's sports,
the w n B, a w Slam, overtime, women's basketball.
You see people are starting to invest and not see
(43:16):
it as.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
A charity or I'm supporting women. It's just you want
to do it. You want to invest because you want
to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
As we get ready to wrap up here, we just
have to take a couple of things away from this
conversation on our podcast. This is what we call leveling off,
where we one one to make sure that when we
leave here and we see our media people, when we
see our athletes and we see folks who really work
hard in this industry, you just understand like there are
(43:46):
two sides of everyone, right, there's the professional side and
there's the chill side. And this is really just my
disclaimer that if you see me at a party later,
don't be coming with me talking about I see you
to nah you plank that was that was Terica Foster
t you got a drink in a hand, Let me alone.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Okay, that's that. But also just.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Keep an open mind on inclusivity when it comes to
how people receive women women's sports, and that everything that
we have to do is different, right, every every approach
to specifically the W is different. Like we love to
continue to see how much W players are getting love
even this weekend at NBA All Star, the activations, the
(44:29):
amount of people that are excited. I mean, we had
Tiffany Hayes on the show yesterday part.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Of the Golden State Valkyries.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
The league is expanding and so all of these new
opportunities are happening and we love to see how fans
are embracing these women and embracing this new opportunity for women,
but also understand even in those things, there are still
some some very small but significant differences in how we
(44:58):
discuss women and how we talk about women. Even something
is we're definitely if you're here, Like I could be
a snack, but can I not be a snack in
my job?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
You know what I'm saying, I'm a.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Do you guys know who I am? You know I am?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But yeah, Like it's just it's just there's a there's
a way that we discussed that we talk about. I
mean even as far as something as being a mom
and being a basketball player, right, Like, it's something that
we don't discuss. We don't discuss dads having to not
be home at Christmas or notving to you know, not
be not that they don't do it or don't have
to think about it, but it's just not something that's discussed.
(45:38):
It's normal, right for a woman to have to be
pregnant play basketball, miss games, have to go on the back, breastfeed,
come back out.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
You remember a Dia Dia.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Barnes two seasons pregnant and made the all start the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yes, yes, Kim Calwell just quite literally had a baby
and a week later she was back out there pretendency
coaching like these are the kinds of incredible women that
we have in this space, and so we just have
to think about how we cover them and how we
celebrate them differently than we do. But at the end
of the day, I have really enjoyed this conversation with
(46:15):
both of you. I hope that all of you guys
take a moment to pull out your phones and follow
levels to this on all of your podcasting where that's
Apple Podcasts. I heartpot Spotify also in case you missed it,
with Christina Williams. Every week she has incredible guests on
to keep you updated on what you may have missed
(46:37):
in the women's sports space.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
And Cheryl, what are you getting ready to go?
Speaker 5 (46:41):
Do?
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I gotta go?
Speaker 4 (46:42):
Sorry, my son is in the G League slam dunk contests.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Sorry, I gotta I gotta go. Y'all, thanks for being here.
Thank you guys so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Well. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation and maybe
you took away some things from it that have impacted you.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I'm super excited to be.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Back in a group of things, navigating so much in
my personal life, but just happy to be back. There's
lots of excited things happening in and around women's sports,
and so I'll see you guys next week, and we're
gonna be back to our regular schedule programming. Don't forget
to rate, review, and subscribe.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
To the podcast. I'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
In case you missed it with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an
iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. Hey, y'all, welcome to In Case You Missed
It with Christina Williams. And I know it's been a
little bit of time, but I'm so happy to be
back and on this special edition of In Case You
(00:23):
Missed It. This is going to be a very, very
fun conversation with my girls, Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby,
hosts of Levels to this podcast on Iheartwomen's Sports Network. Yeah,
we had a lot of fun with this episode. We
recorded it live from NBA All Star in San Francisco
at Club thirty in partnership with Stephen Curry's Unanimous Media Company,
(00:46):
and it was a lot of fun to bring women's
sports to NBA All Star. The conversation is on the
topic of knowing who you are, and it was really
inspired by a dinner that Cheryl trikan I had the
previous night before we recorded the conversation. Not going to
get into that because you have to listen to the episode,
but I think that this is an important conversation, especially
(01:08):
as women in a male dominated space as black women
in the sports industry. I think that you know this
conversation is something that needed to be had, and I
know this isn't like the typical In Case You Missed
the episodes with the news and headlines, but I think
that you will truly truly enjoy this discussion. So without
(01:29):
further ado, here's this episode of In Case You Missed
It with Christina Williams, and it's crossing over with The
Levels to This podcast featuring Chryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Good morning or good afternoon. I don't know what time
it is. I'm still on East Coast time, so out
of my head it's afternoon, but it could very well
be morning.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
But we're here. Give a round of a boss for yourself. Yeah,
thank you for being here. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I am Tureka Foster Brasby, host of the Levels to
this podcast, and I am incited to have.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Because I was to say it and I said, oh no,
she wants to introduce herself. I'm Christina Williams.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm a host of In Case You miss It with
Christina Williams.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yes, yes, so I'm not even gonna let you look
at me, because I'm getting the eyes and I am
Cheryl Swoops. I co host levels to this with the
one and only Tik across the Bras.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
The Cheryl Swoops time champion, the three time Olympian. Don't
play on her name?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Did you know who she is? Do you know? Stop
it stopping.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
We're very excited to be here today at NBA All Star.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We are looking for.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
A good day of fun and a good day of
excitement for the fans. But you know what, I'll be
the first to tell you guys that sometimes it is
incredibly difficult to be in these spaces because you have
moments where people recognize you. They recognize you from the podcast,
they recognize you from the different things that you do.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I know you guys have people who recognize you all
the time.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And there are moments where you're like, you know what,
I just kind of want to chill a little bit, right,
Like I want to have a drink. I want to
kick back, put my feet up, dance a little bit,
shake a little something something. And then there are times
where it's like you feel like maybe you can't do
that because you don't want people who see you or
envision you in a certain way to then look at
you differently or have things to say because they only
(03:32):
see you a certain way and they don't give you
an opportunity to kind of be yourself and enjoy yourself.
And so today we're kind of gonna talk a little
bit about what it means to balance.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Being who you are and what you do and.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
How those two things are completely separate. And Christina, I'm
gonna start with you because we had a moment recently
where we were like, Hey, we're gonna go out, We're
gonna have fun, but then was just a little bit
of reservation. And I think one thing, one thing that
reminds me of that is even like the women who
(04:08):
we cover in the WNBA, and how there are moments
where we see them on the court, we see what
they do, we see how they ball, and then we
have to remind ourselves, and maybe not us, but like
people have to remind themselves, like what you are and
what you do on the court is not necessarily what
you are and who you are off the court, in
(04:30):
your personal life and your personal endeavors. And so I'll
start with you and go around a shurel about what
it means to try to find a balance.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Okay, we gotta go there. We are absolutely going there.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, last night was a really real experience for me
because I feel like I'm still very new in this space,
although I've been in it for about seven eight years,
and so a lot of me wants to protect who
I am, that public facing image versus my private life,
and so I did. I did have reservations about going
(05:07):
out last night and people seeing me outside of work,
the work environment, and I guess it's something you're laughing, Shuryl,
But it's real.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
It's real.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
But no, it's just something that I'm learning to balance.
I'm not there yet. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not
there yet. You're just still learning learning how to navigate it,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And Errol, for you having literally so much of your
life public right with being a superstar athlete, with literally
somebody can pick up Google and feel like they can
find everything about you.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
You know, how do you, in your own.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Way trying to find a balance of you being Churl
the basketball player, the Hall of Famer, and then you
just being Churro from Texas, from West Texas. I, first
of all, I think it's hard because I think if
you ask even people in the room, is.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It fair to say that what you do at work,
in your workplace, on the court or whatever, you have
to be that same person outside of work. Personally, I
don't think it's fair because what I do outside of
my job should be able. I should be able to
(06:31):
be me. And I think one of the biggest issues
with that though, when people are trying to portray you
as being like, oh my gosh, he or she they're
like on all the time and they're great, and they're
this and that, Like, I think you give a false
sense to little kids growing up of everything's perfect, everything's great,
(06:53):
because it's not. Do we always make the right choices?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Do we always make the right decision?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
No, So I think it's.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Unfair to have those expectations. But for myself personally, like
it or not fair or unfair, I always know that
there's somebody somewhere watching me just to see am I
going to f up? So they can be able to
go and say, you see, she did mess up. And
I'll be the first to say, yeah, I do make mistakes,
(07:21):
But I try to be very cognizant of my surroundings
where I'm at what I'm doing, because I know people
are always going to judge, even though that's not our
place to do that. But I always want to have
that not a perfect image, but I always want to
be that person where when especially little girls, when they
look at me, they can say, you know what, like,
(07:44):
I'm real. I'm just going to be a real person
regardless of where I'm at, what I'm doing, and I
want to be able to show that to them and
to let them know that it is okay to not
always be right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's okay to not always be on.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think we put way too much pressure on our
cells at times to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Can I shake the table a little bit? Shake it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I'm about to shake the table, the hair up in
the shaped table a little bit, shake, shake, shake.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Do you think do you think men have that expectation?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Absolutely not like like y'all have no idea how they
don't you have it at I don't think so. Like
you can lose all your hair and you will still
be considered that guy, you know what I mean? You
can gain weight, yes, and no one's gonna say I'm
not gonna date that, yeah, because he's gained We like
y'all are just y'all, if we put on two pounds
(08:33):
hundred percent officially become the worst people in the world.
And we're overweight and we're obese. If we lose a
single strand of hair, we all of a sudden have
now missed the societal standards of what beauty looks like.
And so if we go out and have too much
to drink and get caught on social media, then it's, oh,
my god, woman, thou aren't loosed like what in the world, right,
(08:56):
And so it's it's so interesting, how And this isn't
to play the gender card, but it is to just
demonstrate just how much more difficult it is at times
to balance your personality and your profession. And I think
that's relatable in any case, Like even when we have
to sometimes code switch, right, like we have to sometimes
(09:20):
you know, I can hit you see what I'm saying,
and I have past because you know, I can absolutely
have a conversation with my friends, and there are certain
terms and things that I can say with my friends
that I can't necessarily say at work, and not because
those things are bad, but just because the perception of
it is just so different, right, And I just I
(09:42):
think it's important to put an emphasis on just how
difficult that can be sometimes. But you know, for both
of you and whoever wants to answer can answer. Are
there moments where you're just like, for lack of better terms,
f it like I don't care you know what someone's
gonna say, or like you knows it. I'm gonna I'm
gonna do this, I'm gonna put on this outfit, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Wear this week. I'm gonna save.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
This line because it's just it is who it is.
And if someone else doesn't have the ability to compartmentalize
me personally versus me professionally, like that's with them.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But I have found though that.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
The older I get, the more I get to a
point of the I really don't care that idea because
but you know why, because I sleep very well at night,
and and what I mean by that is I'm I'm
genuinely a really good person. I treat people well, just.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Don't come at me sideways.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And so because of that, I yeah, I just feel
like we as a society, we just worry about other
people's business too much at times, and we're not we're
not allowed to have our own. I can't have my
my own thoughts and opinions, Like you feel like, not
(11:03):
you personally, but you feel like you should be able
to tell me what my own opinion should be about something, right,
And so instead of going back and forth with people
about whatever it is, I just get to a point
to where I'm like, you know what, whatever, you got it?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, I just chime in on that of course.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So I mean, obviously we're public facing figures right in
the media space and the sports space as.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
A Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
How much do you think social media and parasocial relationships
factor into those expectations?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
My god, so much?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Like there are so funny story My husband doesn't like
so like he is cool with social media, but he
don't really like social.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Media at all.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Right, Like if you look on his on his social pages,
it's nothing but like memes, jokes and the Philadelphia Eagles,
Like that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That's why you're gonna see.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I almost didn't even know it was him because he
changed his profile picture to Jalen Hurts, and I was like,
who is this?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Who is this person?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
But he doesn't like social Me on the other hand,
part of it is because of my job that I
have to continually be on social media and have to
continually post. But also because I think social is what
you make it, right, It's a negative place if you
make it and you allow it to be a negative place.
I don't allow it to be a negative space for me.
But with that being said, because I post about, you know, family,
(12:23):
husband things like that. When I'm out and I'm with
my husband, people think they know him. So they're always like,
oh my god, I know you know you're you're you're
a tourists and you and you like the eagles and
how do you blah blah blah blah, and they just
like kind of start conversations and granted he's not like
a rude person, so he will engage in conversation, but
when we're done, he's like.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Who the hell is that? How do they know me?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And so I think those parasocial relationships really do speak
a lot to how we interact and how people interact
and have expectations of us because they think they know
who we are and what we're about based on what
we share and what we post on social media.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And I think all of us can.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Say that we're all layered, right, like where none of
us are one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
All of us have different parts, different pieces.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And I even think about that as it relates to
women in the WNBA, right, Like we look at players
in the WNBA and we say, you know, oh, djn
A Carrington, she's beautiful, she has these lashes, she has
these hair. But you remember there was one time last
season where there was a conversation where folks were like,
oh my god, her nails are too long, like that's
ghetto blah blah blah blah blah. Right, and it's like
(13:33):
there's these these secret things.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
That we have.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And truthfully, if you you know, really got to know
Dja or really got a chance to like follow her
outside of what she does on the court, you'd see
she's one of the kindest people, super silly. Her nails
actually aren't long at all naturally hers not with the
crylic And it's it's one of those things where it's
like you think you know something, you set this expectation,
(13:58):
you set this stereotype, and it's completely different from who
you really are. And social plays a huge, huge Rollinette.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, I'll just add a little bit to that. I
think the one thing when you said social can be
really good or can be really bad, but to me,
it is what you make it. But social media is
the one place though where like it gives people a
place and a space to where they feel relevant, but
(14:29):
also a place where they feel like they can come
for you behind a keyboard or on a cell phone.
And that's where I've just gotten to a point to
where one you just take a break, Like I have
to mentally just walk away from social media at times
because people feel like they really know you based off
(14:50):
of what they see on social media. And I think
if you spend your time getting so caught up in
reading all the posts and all the repost and tweets
and about yourself specifically, like it could play a huge
part in what you feel mentally, and a lot a
(15:12):
lot of people aren't mentally strong enough to deal with
the things that are said about you on social media.
So that's where I've gotten to a point to where
I'm like, you know, it's it's my it's my life.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I absolutely think that there's levels to having boundaries
and that balance. And for me personally, I mean this
time last year, I spent a lot of screen time
on my phone. Breaking news is a very hefty business. Y'all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And so this year I kind of took a step
back because it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Was mentally taxing to be on social media, to want
to be first and all those things. So for me,
it was just about taking time personally for myself and
to evaluate, Okay, how am I going to do this,
coming up with a strategy turning my phone off after
a certain hour and.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Be like, yeah, this can wait until tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think that sometimes we always think that we have
to do things instantly, and sometimes it's okay to just
hold something off for the next day and take that
time to yourself.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Do you remember when we did the We did an
article for the Slam exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, we did an article for Slam magazine and one
of the questions was what is your screen time? And
I never paid attention to my screen time until that
particular article, and.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
That twenty one hours was my screen time? It said
sixteen hours, and I was like, twenty one hours.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
There are twenty four hours in a day.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So only three and those only three hours you weren't
on your phone was probably when you.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Were sleep sleeping, breaking breaking news, y'all. Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Though, that can't that can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's that's the point, And that's the point. It wasn't
It wasn't. I think that's exactly the point.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But it's it's so consuming, like especially for you in
that space, Like you know, I think about you, and
I think about like Woa, how he was the breaking
news guy. Now there's Shams and you know, Rachel Gallian
and and just there's so much consumption in that space
that again, it becomes difficult to maybe balance who you
(17:13):
are in a personal life and just you know, what
you should be doing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
What does Christina enjoy? What does Cheryl enjoy? What does
Tea enjoy?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That doesn't have to do with you know, basketball or
sports or media, But I just think that, like again,
it's relatable to most people. I mean, there are lawyers
who spend so much time in a courtroom that you know,
you're like, what do you what does.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Your family do?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What are your what happens when you're not there? There
are doctors who spend so much time in the hospital.
What do you do when you're not you know, in
an emergency situation or when you're not at work, Like, well,
how do you how do you turn that thing off.
And then there's something that you said, Cheryl that really
stands out to me. When you say some people aren't
mentally taxing, I mean some people aren't mentally strong to
(17:55):
deal with that.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I'll give you a perfect example.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Last year, I did a show and I did a
show with someone is this girl?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, so I did. I did a show last year
with this woman named Pearl Davis. And if you're familiar
with Pearl Davis, Pearl Davis is a very very strong
right wing girl who has a lot of opinions that
I disagree with. Right But I didn't know I was
getting ready to do this show with Pearl, Okay, I
(18:27):
I wasn't aware. I didn't know what til I show
it up and I said, oh shit. I was like, oh, oh,
that's a good thing. Don't worry about it, that's a
good thing. Don't don't google her, please, don't even tear
your algorithm up like that. But the point is I
also wasn't completely familiar with her, but I had just
seen a couple of things and I did a show
(18:47):
with her, and I was very excited about this show.
And I posted a clip for this show on Twitter
and girl.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
They ate me up.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
They ate her alive. I was like me, everybody loves me.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I posted that I was doing a show, and we
posted a clip of the show and it was me
and I was sitting next to her, And it just
so happened to be the same day that Caitlyn Clark
was asked about Dja Carrington, and I had tweeted that
I thought it was disappointing that Caitlyn didn't take the
opportunity initially to dispel the notion and the rumors and
(19:23):
the conversation about racism and like her fan base, and
that same day I posted my clip of this woman
sitting next to me without you got the you got
the audacity to talk about a twenty one year old
Caitlyn Clark and here you are sitting on stage with
(19:45):
Pearl Davis. And so in my mind, I'm like, oh,
but I mean we have different views, but I'm pretty
sure I could shift the view.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
They were like, no.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Boo, accountability taken accountability taking it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And I had to then be like, you know what,
after I quit the show, like four days in, I said,
this is four days in, y'all, but I said, this
is a moment where I had to be a bit
vulnerable because they were valid in the things that they
were saying. Now, they didn't all say it the right way,
you know, but it really had to show me, you know,
(20:17):
how mentally tough you can be to take criticism because
as an analyst, I criticize players all the time. As
an analyst, I have to tell you when you're not
playing well. There may be times that I say things
that people will be like, yeah, Tea, that's a little harsh.
So I had to sit in my moment and allow
those same people who I criticized to be like t
(20:39):
That wasn't a smart move, you know, And it took
a little bit of vulnerability because I don't like seeing
myself being talked about like that.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But I had to own that space.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So to your point, it does take a lot of
mental toughness to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
But I have a question to.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
That, all shit, Well, it's really a general question, okay,
but why can't you sit on the same stage with
someone that doesn't have It doesn't have to be in particular,
but someone who doesn't have the same views as you
and have a conversation Because personally, I feel like that's
(21:14):
how we grow, That's how we change. It doesn't mean
I'm gonna agree with you, but at least we can
sit and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I think to answer that question in a general sense,
not to get to specific Yeah, in a general sense,
I agree with you one hundred percent. I think the
way that we may change and the way that we
impact people are the way that we do developed actual
solutions to some of the things that we discussed is
to have genuine conversations.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
The keyword in that is genuine. This was not a
genuine scenario.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
This was a scenario where the producer was trying to
like get cleared, and so there was no way that
anything I said I shouldn't been on that stage.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
There was.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But but generally speaking, yeah, that's how you I got you.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Christina, has there been moments where maybe you felt a
little mentally vulnerable on social media or where you've like, dang,
I kind of gotta eat that, or I gotta take that,
or maybe not because you really you really do it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Rage almost what I had to put some people on
a summer jam screen because I am not the person
to clap back at anyone on social media, say what
you want.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm gonna just ignore it, lock you mute, you never see.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You again in the algorithm, and I'm all good, but
you remember.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So there was one night I was getting ready for
bed and maya good friend Tarika, was like, grow into
your phone. Yeah, someone's chat leaked and there's mesages about you.
And long story short, there was a group of white
male reporters in the women's basketball space. They had a
(23:08):
private group chat and it was filled with racist, misogynistic messages.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
My name was thrown in there.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
They were talking about black media and journalists in the
space and it was really really bad. And so I
was like, oh, I can just ignore this like I
ignore everything else and when it comes to my way,
or I can confront it face on. And so I
have a pretty good following on Twitter X and I
was like, you know what, I'm gonna put them on
the Summer Jam screen because people deserve to know who
(23:37):
these people are and what they really think. And so
I did it. I pressed in. I was like, oh,
you're on the Summer Jam screen now. And this group
of journalists was essentially exposed, and I know they were
wondering how the heck did she get that text message? Well,
I'm a newsbreaker to space, I can I know and
see everything. I get everything, one of the things that
(24:00):
I don't break. But so yeah, I put them on
the screen and it really forced that group of men
to be held accountable. And I think that the w
Twitter space, it opened their eyes to what we have
to face as women of color in this space. And yeah,
it was something that you kind of put under the
(24:23):
rug because women's sports, you want to advance women's sports,
had all costs. But to me, I was like, this
is not okay, and we need to have this really
an ugly conversation. And it was all over the news headlines.
I was getting calls to be interviewed on multiple news stations.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Even the person who that group was working for did
not initially want to take accountability for the things that
they were saying.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
His employees were saying about about her.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And I've never met any of these people when I'm
in the media workroom. They don't say hi to me,
never out of any conversation, and they've never worked with me,
don't know me from a hole in the wall, nothing,
And they had so much to say about who they
thought I was, or the privilege that I have or whatever.
I worked fucking hard. I've worked so hard to get
(25:12):
to where I am and I don't take it for granted.
But to those people, they thought that, you know, she's
she's a black woman, she was just given this, and
that is not the case to my journey or how
I ended up to where I am. So yeah, I'm
not gonna say the name, but yeah, and having me
the company was like, I don't think that I want
to make a statement about this, and he just did
(25:35):
not want to hold his employees.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Accountable until it hit him publicly where the.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Sports industry was like, no, you have to say something,
and then he said it, but it was it didn't
feel genuine.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, myself reached out to him. Cindy Burunson reached out
to him. There were many of us who reached out
who was just like, you have to say something. It
is not good to just be silent on this, because
these are your employees and they represent you and they
represent your brand. But I think it's just adding to
the vulnerability that we have in wanting to keep our
(26:08):
personal life personal and our professional life professional, because if
they could say things negative like that about you as
a professional. Imagine what the group chat would have looked like.
And I'm gonna tell you this type of friend I am.
When I got that text, I was like, yeah, I
could leak it, But at the same time, Christina's my friend,
so I'm not going I'm not gonna sit on this text.
(26:29):
I'm gonna send it to her. If she wants to
leak it, let her do it. If she doesn't want to,
that's cool too, because it is about her. But as
another person creative journalist in the space and someone who's
very protective of knowing what it takes to.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Be in this space, I was like, I'm not about
to just sit on this text.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think that's the one thing that I was afraid
of was falling into that angry black woman trope. Yeah,
that follows so many of us in this industry, and
I was just like, I'm not going to say anything
I don't like it is what it is like.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
If they think that, that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
But at some point you have to stand up for
yourself no matter what people will think about you. And
so for me, that was my moment of you have
to speak out, you have to stand up for yourself
so absolutely, and I appreciate it because also taught me
that I have a whole community people who have my
back and are very supportive of me in the industry.
I had GMS reach out to me, executives in the
(27:22):
league like no, like we really rock with you.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Do you need anything? I'm here.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So it just let me know that I have a
great community in the women's basketball space and that knows
people have to be health accountable for Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
No, thank god you did. But I will say this though.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Sure for you, it feels like you are also sometimes
often caught between a rock and a hard place because
as a former player, you know and understand better than
any of us on the stage what it means to
be on a championship team, what it means to be
in a locker room, what it means to be.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
An athlete, and building blocks.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But then you also share the commonality of us of
now being in an analyst and now being a media personality,
and if feels that it becomes increasingly difficult the more
people get itchy Twitter fingers. To maintain your professionalism as
an analyst and also stand up for players when they
(28:14):
have been done wrong by fans, by media, by others.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I
think you.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Know, first of all, being a former NBA player, like
they are allowed to say whatever they want to say
about the game today, the current players today, and people
see that as, oh my goodness, well if this person whoever,
(28:43):
that former player is right, if they said it, then
it must be true.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It must be right.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
But the other side of that is as a woman,
as a former player, it's almost like we're not entitled
to have opinions about the game and where the game
is to or about certain players. And that to me
is so mind boggling because like I will sit here
(29:09):
today and put my resume up against any former NBA
player period. Well, and I'm only saying that because if
you have a right to talk about the game, then
so should I.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And for me, it's never personal.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
But it's always about wanting the game to be better,
wanting the players to be better, wanting people to understand
where we've come from, where we've been, and where we're going.
So yeah, there was quite a bit. And you know,
the funny thing is tea and when you talk about
social media again, people can only go and pick certain
(29:49):
parts of interviews you've done or certain parts of a
podcast clip, and that's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
What they're gonna post.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
And so then the world goes crazy like, oh, well
she said this, but no, did you listen to the
entire clip or the entire episode to know exactly what
we were talking about. So it does get to a
point at times where it's like, like, what what am
I really doing? And is this where I want to be?
Is this a space I want to be in? But yeah,
(30:20):
because I feel like if anyone has earned that right
to talk about the game and to talk about the
players and to talk about what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Today, that I should be able to do that. Yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
But there are people though, that are like, no, you
don't have that right.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Le'm me just tell you.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, I will run through a brick wall for both
of you, and I turned off play about them right
back to media. And so there's been times in the
last year where I had to hold some of my
media friends accountable because they've written articles about you that
were not pleasant or didn't have the full context of
the story, and you know, I checked them on it, like, hey, like,
(30:57):
why are you writing this one piece to create this narrative?
And I think that especially in the w NBA space,
we've seen how that can play out with the Christine
Brennan situation.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
For those of you who don't know, there's a US.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Today columnist, Christine Brennan, and she's writing a book about
Kaitlyn Clark. But also she's been in Indianapolis's past year
covering the fever and Caitlyn Clark and the whole thing
with dj N. Carrington came up with the ipoke and
she just sensationalized the ipoke and yeah, a lot of
it was not an ipope. It wasn't it was a
(31:36):
but anyway, it's just how media have been been creating
these narratives about the black players and the bigger context
of how that can play out. No, absolutely, I think
(32:00):
the difference between me and Christina is Christina will like,
very politely and very casually and very professionally say hey,
you're out of pocket. So Rika will absolutely clasp back
and be.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Like, yore talking too fast. Because I'm from Detroit, I'd
be like, hey, y'all are you talking to me?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
The whole.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Friendships seven mile will come out. You'll be like Eminem
go to down all of it. The whole thing will
come out like it's just which is very different. And
so you know, I say all the time, I was like,
I'm not your average journalist. Now guys like I will.
But I think sometimes it's necessary because for that very reason,
Like people again take what they think, they see, what
they think they hear, and they will continue to push
(32:47):
that button if.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You allow them.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And of course there's only so much you can do
from behind a keyboard, right, But what I find hilarious
is that when we are out in public and we
are at different venues, Like I remember specifically someone tweeting
something crazy about Sheryl and then we were at an
event for Final four and they were like, can we.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Have your photo? And I was like, ooh, should I
pull the tweet?
Speaker 4 (33:14):
See I'm the one that I'll be like, but no,
keep that same energy you had on social media. But
here's here's the biggest one for me though, because a
lot of people want to take they want to use
social media and they want to take whatever and turn
it into a black versus white thing.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It's not that at all.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's because one thing that I am always gonna do
is stand up for players, period. And I remember this
past season when uh yeah, when Chicago Sky played Indiana,
Diamond Deshiel's who foul Caitlin and which it was a
foul they call the foul blah blah blah ah. That
(33:56):
so game's over and Diamond's getting all all these ugly
tweets and messages. So for those who don't know, like
Diamond de Shills was really sick, like very very sick.
She had a tumor and I remember, like some of
the fans were tweeting like, I hope the tumor comes
back and you die from it next time. So I responded, right,
(34:20):
I responded and said Diamond, like we're here, we got
your back, keep being you, blah blah blah. Well, they
they thought that I was talking about the foul because
for me at that point, it wasn't even about basketball,
but it's about a person, a human being in her life.
And so then because I said what I said to her,
then they came for me right like, oh, you're just
(34:42):
a racist, and you don't. I don't respond to everybody,
but there are certain times like when I have time
on that day and this day, I had time time.
So I'm more of a tarika, not a Christina, God
bless you.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
For it's not wrong with being a Christina, y'all.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I just you know, I guess the bottom line for
me is and you see it on the NBA side,
but for me, it's about like these young women and men,
like they work their asses off to get to where
they are and doing what they do. And how dare
you feel like you can just sit on your computer
(35:19):
or your phone and just just go in and say
some of the craziest, dumbest things about someone that you
don't even know.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, and you don't even.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Know what her story is and the journey she's been
through to just to walk again, right, And that's where
I was coming from, like I know your story.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Don't let all of what these.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
People are saying about you on social media like take
you to a not so good place, because it's very
easy for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
This it actually reminds me of a conversation that Christina
and I were having yesterday when we were talking about
like getting people an opportunity to know players and know
the game before right now, like right now, how women's
sports is like the thing, right, Women's basketball is the
thing right when you look at viewership numbers. You can
see that NBA viewership is actually down this year, w
(36:11):
NBA viewership is up right, And that's and that's a wonderful. Yes,
please give a clap for that, because that is how
long did we wait to get to this space. I'm
actually thinking it's really funny that we're shading the NBA
at NBA also, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But is that where we are? That's where we are.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
But I say I bring all that to say there
is an opportunity that is available for us to be
able to educate fans in new fans right, because there's
this thing that they say, we're like we're gatekeeping. I'm like,
first of all words meeting things, we're not gaatekeeping. We
are not hindering you from buying tickets, we are not
hindering you from using Google.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
You can do whatever you want to do in the
women's sports space.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
But there's this thing that people say, like we're gatekeeping,
or that we are not well to new women's sports
fans WNBA fans specifically, and I don't think that's the case.
I am one who thinks that we are very welcoming
to women's basketball fans and We want people to enjoy
the game. We also want you to respect the history. Right,
(37:17):
if you've been an NBA fan for five years, you're
not gonna come out here talking about John Morant is
the goat.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
You gonna be like, wait a minute, did you.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Forget like all the people who before you know what
I mean, you'd playing wait dunk contest?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
You do forget Vince car existed? Like what do we do?
Speaker 4 (37:35):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Like?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
There are things? There are levels.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
There are levels, hello, Like there are levels to how
we get here.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
And I think our issue all.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The pun intended on that, by the way, but I
think that there are there are Our issue has just
simply been before we got to where we are in
twenty twenty five, there was a whole slew of people
that came from nineteen ninety seven to this point, and
that slew of people have to be recognized and respected,
(38:06):
and those stories aren't being told enough to where new
fans have to be open to wanting to listen and
learn those stories.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
And it it definitely has a part with coverage.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We know coverage with different than and investment was different
then than it is now. But it's available, like you
can YouTube previous All Star games. You can YouTube, and
you can google. You know where we started, how we
got here. You get google that nineteen ninety six Olympic team,
you know what I mean. Like, I was so excited
to see that doc Cheryl at thirty for thirty. It
(38:41):
was so good, and I'm just like, this is my
childhood in front of me. Not to make you feel
the way, but I was like, I was like, yeah,
I was actually flexing low key.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
I was like, hey, y'all see Cheryl, that's my girl,
my girl.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Speech.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, y'all
see Dawn. I'm about to text.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
But it's just like, those stories have to be told
in order for folks to understand why we're so protective
of the game and why we will continue to be
protective of this space. It's not one that we're going
to let people enter with false narratives. It's one that
we want you to come and enjoy, but we want
you to come and enjoy with a clear vision of
(39:26):
where and how we got here.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, because we we want you to come and be
a part of something we've been building from day one,
right and to be excited about it and to support
the league, right, And it's so okay for you to
have a favorite player. We all do, right, Asia Wilson
is my favorite player, right get away? Yeah right, But
(39:50):
I just because I want to tell this story real
quickly before I have to go.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
So I went this morning to do a toast for.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Asia Wilson, who's getting her own to Nature shoe finally,
And what I said.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
To her was yeah, seriously yes.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But what I said to her was, Sabrina and Escu
has a shoe. But Asia Wilson the first black female
in thirty years since I got my shoes. But you
know what's really interesting about this moment where we are,
and it's not just Asia but Sabrina with a shoe
(40:27):
and Asia with a shoe, and Caitlyn getting a shoe,
Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Now.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Back in the day in nineteen ninety seven, when Nike
gave me my first shoe, people looked at them like,
what in the hell are y'all thinking giving a female
her own shoe. No one's gonna buy it, no one's
gonna wear it. But like Nike thought outside the box,
and now you have all these different brands and people
right that are like.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Oh, women's basketball is the thing.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
So I was telling Asia in ninety seven when I
signed with Nike, Nike didn't even have a women's sports
marketing division. It was just like a here you go,
here's the room, do what you gotta do with it.
And so what really excites me today about where we
are is it's not just the things that the women
are getting on the court. You have all these women
(41:18):
and brands who are saying we see you, we hear you,
we need you.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
So you have the Angel Reeses, the.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Caitlan Clarks, the DJN Carrington's, the Rakia Jackson's, the Asia
like doing things that we only could dream of. And
my very first Nike contract when I signed in ninety
seven was like one hundred and seventy five.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Thousand dollars wow, which then I was like, oh my god,
I've made it right.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
And today to see a player like an Asia and
a Caitlin Clark signing a twenty million dollar contract, yeah, like,
I don't even know what to say about that, because
I never thought that I would see this day when
we started the w back at ninety seven, where we're
(42:09):
sitting here actually talking about how far the game has
come and these million dollar contracts that female basketball players
are now signing. That's what ninety seven to where we
are today, that's what it was for us. It was
about being able to be in this moment and share
in this moment with everything that women's basketball is experiencing today.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And I was to say, from a media perspective, I'm
so grateful for Iheartwomen's Sports back because even seven years
ago it was just so unheard of. Right to have
a network like this exists where you can have women's
sports programming every single day, available shows, available, opportunities available
(42:56):
for people in the media to be able to amplify
the stories of these athletes. And now that the game
is growing and the momentum is, you know, picking up,
we have iHeart Women's Sports. We have just women's sports,
the w n B, a w Slam, overtime, women's basketball.
You see people are starting to invest and not see
(43:16):
it as.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
A charity or I'm supporting women. It's just you want
to do it. You want to invest because you want
to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
As we get ready to wrap up here, we just
have to take a couple of things away from this
conversation on our podcast. This is what we call leveling off,
where we one one to make sure that when we
leave here and we see our media people, when we
see our athletes and we see folks who really work
hard in this industry, you just understand like there are
(43:46):
two sides of everyone, right, there's the professional side and
there's the chill side. And this is really just my
disclaimer that if you see me at a party later,
don't be coming with me talking about I see you
to nah you plank that was that was Terica Foster
t you got a drink in a hand, Let me alone.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Okay, that's that. But also just.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Keep an open mind on inclusivity when it comes to
how people receive women women's sports, and that everything that
we have to do is different, right, every every approach
to specifically the W is different. Like we love to
continue to see how much W players are getting love
even this weekend at NBA All Star, the activations, the
(44:29):
amount of people that are excited. I mean, we had
Tiffany Hayes on the show yesterday part.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Of the Golden State Valkyries.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
The league is expanding and so all of these new
opportunities are happening and we love to see how fans
are embracing these women and embracing this new opportunity for women,
but also understand even in those things, there are still
some some very small but significant differences in how we
(44:58):
discuss women and how we talk about women. Even something
is we're definitely if you're here, Like I could be
a snack, but can I not be a snack in
my job?
Speaker 3 (45:09):
You know what I'm saying, I'm a.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Do you guys know who I am? You know I am?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But yeah, Like it's just it's just there's a there's
a way that we discussed that we talk about. I
mean even as far as something as being a mom
and being a basketball player, right, Like, it's something that
we don't discuss. We don't discuss dads having to not
be home at Christmas or notving to you know, not
be not that they don't do it or don't have
to think about it, but it's just not something that's discussed.
(45:38):
It's normal, right for a woman to have to be
pregnant play basketball, miss games, have to go on the back, breastfeed,
come back out.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
You remember a Dia Dia.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Barnes two seasons pregnant and made the all start the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yes, yes, Kim Calwell just quite literally had a baby
and a week later she was back out there pretendency
coaching like these are the kinds of incredible women that
we have in this space, and so we just have
to think about how we cover them and how we
celebrate them differently than we do. But at the end
of the day, I have really enjoyed this conversation with
(46:15):
both of you. I hope that all of you guys
take a moment to pull out your phones and follow
levels to this on all of your podcasting where that's
Apple Podcasts. I heartpot Spotify also in case you missed it,
with Christina Williams. Every week she has incredible guests on
to keep you updated on what you may have missed
(46:37):
in the women's sports space.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
And Cheryl, what are you getting ready to go?
Speaker 5 (46:41):
Do?
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I gotta go?
Speaker 4 (46:42):
Sorry, my son is in the G League slam dunk contests.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Sorry, I gotta I gotta go. Y'all, thanks for being here.
Thank you guys so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Well. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation and maybe
you took away some things from it that have impacted you.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I'm super excited to be.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Back in a group of things, navigating so much in
my personal life, but just happy to be back. There's
lots of excited things happening in and around women's sports,
and so I'll see you guys next week, and we're
gonna be back to our regular schedule programming. Don't forget
to rate, review, and subscribe.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
To the podcast. I'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
In case you missed it with Christina Williams is an
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Khristina Williams
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