April 20, 2022 • 41 mins
Take a trip on the mothership to Planet Ex: a place where the sky is purple, jealousy breeds admiration, and there IS life after love. Featuring a very special gu(ex)st.
Featuring: Cara E. McCarthy
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Captain, I hate you the same. Let's go to a
man one trying to catay ready for during the same lunch.
(00:32):
Welcome back to in our own world. How you doing, baby,
I'm doing pretty good, pretty good, pretty excited to be here,
pretty excited, kind of excited, kind of nervous, but you
know it is what it is. Why nervous? What are
we talking about today? Gee? I wonder what we'll we'll
welcome to Planet X our explosions, fireworks. I mean, look,
(00:57):
let's be honest everybody with that. You're straight, whether you're gay,
you're wondering what is the appropriate relationship to have with
your ex? Can you have one? Will you have one?
What's the vibe? What do you think they? I think
it depends. I think it depends on a lot of things.
All right, we're gonna we're gonna get into it. I
(01:17):
think it depends on a if you're willing. Right, First
of all, you have to want to be friends with
your ex in order to be friends with your ex,
and your ex also has to be willing to be
friends with you. Otherwise the point is moved and the
conversations over. B you have to have enough space and
time from the situation to be able to approach it
(01:40):
from a new perspective, because if you're a few months
away from your breakup, there's no way you and your
ex can be friends. And why do you think that, Well,
because I think that feelings are fresh, and um, there's
probably an alterior motive behind your friendship m that it's
not just friendship. Uh. And then see, I think probably
(02:07):
equally as important as number one is whatever relationship that
you find yourself in in the moment, or maybe you're
not in a relationship, maybe you're single. You have to
be secure enough in yourself and in the decision to
have those kinds of friendships in order to carry them forward.
And you have to present that in an honest way
to your partner so that they understand that that's something
(02:29):
that's important to you or something that goes on in
your life. So let's talk about that, because I know
the last time in our where when we welcomed people
to our world, we were explaining to them, you know,
we fell in love, and falling in love is beautiful,
it's a wonderful thing. But when we fell in love,
for example, you know, there was a period of time
(02:50):
where they were not other people included in our love story,
as you would say, for example, like even our parents
are friends, you know, UM talks about our ex girlfriends
or boyfriends. That was out of the peripherty. It was
all about you and me or in our own world,
no pun intended, but it was true, it really were.
(03:12):
But what do you have to offer people like in
that moment from when you're keeping your relationship a secret too? Okay,
well that's not I don't think that that's I think
that's an entirely different conversation because you and I made
that decision on purpose, but it was probably more because
we didn't want to publicize our relationship than anything else.
But even when you and I first started dating, I
(03:36):
was very upfront with you about who I was and
the kind of person that I was, and a friendship
with my ex was a part of that person, even
though at that time I wasn't friends with that X. Yeah,
but you know, I thought that it was an incredible
thing and I liked it. I mean, it was I'm
not gonna lie. It was difficult for me what what
(03:59):
was before or after? Because you remember that there was
a specific X that I had spoken to you about
that I shared that I had a lot of love
for that. I felt I had a great relationship with
outside of the romantic feelings, and that after spending five
or five and a half years on and off, I
mean we were high school girlfriends. Consider that also also,
(04:21):
but after love is very impactful, don't you think? For sure?
For sure? For sure? Right? But I wanted something to
show for that. I felt like we had gone through
a lot in that five and a half years, and
I was like, fuck it, We've already dedicated this much
time to each other. We know each other so well,
probably better than most of my other friendships would ever
get to know me. Why can't there be a benefit
(04:44):
to this? Why can't we get something out of it,
even long after the romance is over? And it was
you who encouraged me to reach out because I was nervous.
I was not I did not want to get rejected.
My little ego was not prepared for I don't want
to be your friend. I was like, let me not
even go there. It's tough because at some point somebody
(05:07):
has to put themselves out there, right yeah. And I
think that if I would have reached out and she
would have been like, you know, I'm not interested in
having a friendship with you. That would have been okay
because I also just cleared the air between us, and
sometimes that's nice, although closure isn't always guaranteed. And when
you started sharing with me, well, look, this is my
past and these are the experiences that I've had, and
(05:27):
I felt at first afraid, afraid of what it just
I'm not sure, Like I guess, falling in love with
someone you don't want to hear about their past, right,
But then that's a naive perspective because don't you want
to know the person that you're falling in love with.
(05:48):
I think that there are also exceptions to that rule,
and what are the exceptions? I think that in my
personal experience, I don't think you should share everything in
your new relationship about your past. I think that if
there are stories that you feel are relevant to who
you are at that moment when you're beginning that relationship,
that can help paint a picture about who you are
(06:11):
to somebody who doesn't know you. But I don't think
that there's like an obligation or necessarily a recommendation to say,
start a new relationship and then open up your past.
I know plenty of people who have never talked about
their past with their partners. I came from the background
of oh, I'm not going to share anything, right, you know,
and I felt like it was like, all right, new chapter,
(06:32):
new person. It is right however right. It was very
refreshing to meet you, love you equally, be as afraid
of you as I was enticed. I was afraid of
you because you were everything that I guess I wanted
(06:53):
to be and didn't understand how to be. I'll never
forget like one of the first times we started dating,
and it was like our second date and we were
out with a friend and whatever, and you were like, oh,
I'm on this vibe, you know, like I want to
keep dancing and I want to keep doing this thing.
And it was equal parts attractive and equal policy scary
(07:17):
because I was like, oh, so I'm out with you, right,
and you're gonna go do your thing. But meanwhile I'm like, like,
I'm attached to you, you know what I mean? And
I was I was like, I want you to be here,
but if you don't want to be here, you don't
have to be here. But this is where I want
to be. Boundaries. Boundaries are big thing. That's something that
(07:42):
especially not only in the Latino culture, but as women
we face like understanding how to set boundaries without feeling
like you're crossing somebody else's line, which you should never
feel because when you make your boundaries for yourself, that's
self respect, then you are able to help somebody else,
love somebody else, etcetera. So on that note, you're really
(08:06):
excited about this. This was one of the first topics
that you actually came up with at the inception of
this project many months ago. And it's no surprise to
me knowing you as well as I do and knowing
how you feel about this. This is episode two. I
think it's very important to understand when and when not
(08:29):
it is appropriate to be friends or acquaintances with an
ex partner. And there's a simple answer to that, and
what is that. It's entirely up to you. It really is.
You're the only person that knows yourself, that truly knows
yourself to your core and knows what you're capable of
and where your head is at. And if you are
(08:50):
the kind of person that is interested in having friendships
with your ex is, then you're probably talking about it,
or I would hope being honest with your partner about it,
or even if you don't have a partner. I don't
think a lot of people are. No. I don't think that,
especially in the heterosexual community, being friends with your ex
is a common thing. I think that that has a
lot to do with the fact that in same sex
(09:11):
relationships we probably have more things in common, more things
that are outside of like your typical romance common. But
I also feel like that's like a line that people
don't allow themselves to cross. I know plenty of my
heterosexual friends who are like, oh no, my girlfriend could
never be friends with their X or oh no, I
would never let my boyfriend talk to any of their exces.
(09:33):
And the question is like, a why are you so insecure?
Because I think we all know here if you've been
in a relationship, you can't stop anybody. People are gonna
do what they want to whether you like it or not,
and if you stand in your way, all you're doing
is delaying the process of when you're going to find
out the truth. Because the truth is coming, booble, and
they going to do it right in your face, or
(09:54):
they're gonna do it behind your back, but they're gonna
do it anyway, So ay, why are you so insecure
last time I checked? You know where your bed is?
Last time I checked? You know where your bed is
in the day that you don't want to lay next
to me. There's a door, and don't let the door,
and I'm hitchure with the good Lord Switchet. That's really
what it all boils down to. That's really all it
boils down to. You can't keep somebody beside you just
(10:15):
because you don't want to look at them. They face
for who they are. I love you so much because
you are the most honest person I've ever met. But
I have to just hitch you with the truth, the truth, truth,
the truth, with the truth, truth, truth. What I gotta
tell you is most people are not like that. Let's
be real here, and I want to hear what people
have to say because being again, I've been with women,
(10:36):
have been with men. I feel like I've changed the
person that I am depending on who I'm with, and
I feel like most people are like that. Now I'm
not going to change my morals that, you know, whatever
the case may be. I'm me. You know that I'm
very authentic. However, you know you're going on a date
with someone who likes this. I think we all do that.
I do that well, where because you want them to
(10:58):
find you interesting. Yeah. Then you have someone that you're
dating and they're like, oh, I've never done this, or
that's lying. But that's what I'm saying. I feel like
at some point when you're dating, dating comes with lying.
It's it's no. I think what I think dating comes
with pomp and circumstance. I think that dating comes with
(11:19):
the stance. She's lying. It's the same. No, it's not,
it's not, it's not. I think that we are like, oh,
I think hold on a minute. I think that we exaggerate.
I think that we make ourselves seem better than we're falling,
lying exaggerat Now I think it's different. I think it's different.
I think lying is lying, and I think that you're
(11:40):
not claiming to be somebody that you're I'd hope when
you're dating somebody, you're not claiming to be somebody that
you're not. Also, it's it's ironic, but the truth will
really set you free. Yeah, it'll set everybody free. God,
and it'll save you a lot of wasted time. Amen. So,
now that we're talking about this amazing conversation about you know,
(12:03):
x is, how to be friends, how to be honest, etcetera.
What do you think ex? Etcetera, etcetera. I think that
we should invite somebody to join us and join the conversation.
Who my ex? Alright, so we have a really special
(12:38):
guest joining us today, somebody that we were referencing earlier
that we thought we should invite to the table due
to our mutual lived experience. Carol Elizabeth McCarthy, Welcome to
in our own world. Thank you guys for having me,
honestly as your first guest. I am very very honored
(13:01):
and way too flattered. If you haven't gathered yet, Kara
is my ex. And she's not just my ex, she's
my friend and and she's also your friend. Let's talk
about that for a second. So there's a funny story
attached to that discovery. There is, Yeah, there is. I
(13:21):
don't think you've actually heard this story before, Kara. Oh,
then double wow. So m was playing a show at
south By Southwest and we were getting ready and I
was going to go with her, and we wanted to
bring a camera because we're like we're traveling, you know,
we want to take photos of each other, and I
was like, hey, you know what, I actually have this
camera in the back that I had in college that
(13:43):
I don't really need, and I don't need any of
those pictures there in my computer. Take it and just
empty it out. And I was like, oh, okay, cool
for real. So I'm going through the camera, scrolling eracing pictures,
and all of a sudden I stumble on a picture
of you in Emily's apartment and I was like what
(14:07):
she was likely? I was like, uh so, who is
this girl and how do you know her? No? No, no.
Your exact words were, um, why is my ex girlfriend
sitting at your kitchen counter? I was really scared that
you were going to tell me that you guys like
hooked up or something. I love you. I love you, though,
(14:33):
was like a brother, Oh God, tell you. From the
moment that I met you. We were in Berkeley. We
went to Berkeley College of Music together, and I remember
being in the hallway for some percussion class and everybody's
like nervous and anxious and we're outside, like, you know,
doing whatever. And when we got in the class, I
(14:54):
think I told you, like you remind me of someone
from back home, like something like that. Super random? Was
it the Miami accident? I think I had lost that
then thankfully you think so? But oh god, no, Carol,
were you like, Hi, I'm Karen McCarthy. I was born
(15:15):
in Miami, Florida. There's something in you that I recognize. No,
but for real, like, I thought you were rad. I
thought you were awesome despite despite the Miami thing whatever.
And so I remember that when I was starting Berkeley,
you were like on your way out, and so we
(15:35):
had a brief interaction, but it was over to your
apartment and everything. Yeah, a couple of times. It was
super awesome. It was extremely brief, So I think m
you and I we overlapped for maybe two semesters. I
think it was like yeah, literally, which in college is
like it's done. But anyway, so the point is that, yeah,
(15:58):
I said, oh, we're gonna do a plarad in my apartment.
You came over and I took those pictures, snap snap.
Then cut two years later, I meet this gorgeous woman,
fall in love with her, and then we are months
later talking about the situation. The camera comes up and
there we are. So at that point things became interesting.
(16:22):
Kara entered the chat, right, So how did that go?
How did it go from there? For what what happened? Well,
to be honest with you, it's been a couple of years,
so I don't remember that that much, but I do
remember that you and I had some conversations about Kara,
and I told you that, you know, I'll always love her,
I'll always wish her the best, but I was carrying
(16:42):
the weight of not having any kind of resolution with
her for a while. And then finally, like probably like
maybe a year year and a half into us having
these conversations, you were like, you should just reach out
to her, Jim, and I was Dawn, I should So yeah,
(17:04):
as your girlfriend at that time, I'm your new girlfriend,
and I love that you were sharing with me about
your life, etcetera. We had had this you know, person
in common, etcetera. So you would tell me, oh stories
about your time together and your most of all, your
connection not romantically, but as friends, as people who had
(17:27):
something in common. So at that point I'm like, oh,
I'm the coolest girlfriend. Let's go. And I really felt
this way because I knew you and I knew you
were rad and I was like, Jem, don't leave it
unresolved to do something about it, right, you know. And
then what I remember, I would always tell you the
(17:48):
three of us would just be the best of friends.
I always felt like Emily and I would have especially
funny enough musical interactions, and I was like, oh my god,
Karen would fit right in like that dummy, let's stop
right there, because that's not easy as a girlfriend to hear,
right right, I was intimidated, I'm not gonna lie, I
(18:09):
get out of here this one. That's hysterical. But because
I feel like that's a talking about it as a
natural thing, I think that was like your innate reaction
that came from the upgrading like societal expectation of X
is sure. But I'm very, very curious to know how
(18:29):
that was for you, and how you navigated that with
Germany throughout your relationship, and and and how we how
we got to this point of us all three being
really good friends, you know. Okay, So at first, I remember,
shortly after I told you, you know, um you should
(18:50):
reach out to her, I was equal parts excited to
meet you and equal parts like, oh crap, maybe they
should like stay away from our relationship or or re
meet me in a different text right, Right, So I
had a show in Boston. Yeah, and I remember at
the time you were living in Boston. Yes, I was,
And I'm like, dude, this is a perfect time, like
(19:12):
I before my show, like meet up clearly air bring
her to the show. Yeah. I remember you said that, like,
let's do it, you know, can I can? I just
safely from my perspective. So between when we broke up
and we became friends, right, there was a few years
where we, you know, would talk and then kind of
(19:34):
like tested the waters. You know, I wasn't really interested
a lot of the time, or you know, Geminy had
better things going on. Um. So when she did text me,
you know, it was at a time in my life where, um,
I was becoming increasingly comfortable with myself and with navigating
(19:56):
you know, my relationships and friendships with my exes. Um.
And I remember you reaching out and saying, hey, like,
no pressure, I'm be in town if you want to
meet up and get a drink, I'd love to. And
I texted you back, and partly I was at work
down the street from where you were playing. I really
didn't want to be there anymore. So partially I was like, yeah,
(20:20):
when are you free? And I remember you text me
back being like for real. Yeah. I wasn't shocked because
I fully expected you to be like no, And I
was like, I was like, don't don't get too flattered yet.
We'll see what happens. And you're like all right, you know,
she was already rolling her eyes. Um. And then we
had a great conversation, and then um, you took me
to M show. And I remember M looking at me
(20:43):
and being excited to see me and like waving and
you know, and I was standing next to you, and
obviously she saw me next to you. Obviously she knew
like what was going on, and um, you know, she
like did like a wave in like a little heart
and I was like, okay, like shit, like I was
experiencing vicarious joy. I was like, we're all going to
be friends. You were, I think, so okay, tell me
(21:06):
if I'm wrong. I think that you recognize that it
was important to me and you were happy that clearly
it was a successful conversation. If she showed up to
your show, I was thrilled. I was so happy. And
also I have a lot of respect for you as
a musician. Thank you for real, because that's here we
go that Evan Kara compliment fest. It's not a compliment fest.
(21:27):
It's another love language, like when you understand when you
can speak music with someone and you know, like the
first time I met her keys, guitar or whatever, I
was like, all right, she's right whatever. So I was
excited to see her there and I was I was
happy that I could tell that it went well. Right,
But after that, like in any partnership, you want to
(21:48):
support your partner and then it elaborates, it keeps going right.
So when you guys started talking more right, I'm not
gonna lie, that was difficult for I was trying to
understand where to place it because in my headspace, I
never knew how to deal with that. When I break
up with the next alright, gone bye, gone to the next.
(22:11):
And also maybe that's my experience, like you said, person
to person, because my ends of relationships had been a
little more tumultuous. I really do think that it's about
what both parties want. I would love to be friends
with some of my exits I thought they were I
have to be wonderful too. Sorry to you guys out there,
(22:31):
love you, But most of it was not sexual. It
was personality and action. It was I love the way
you do. You like someone for a reason, and just
because you're not sleeping with them anymore doesn't make those
feelings go away exactly? Know you here? First, maybe let's
(22:52):
go where is the line of all right? Even with
any friend? You know, Like, if you're in a relationship,
is there a moment where it's like, all right, this
is inappropriate? What do you guys? What do you mean?
With any friends? So when it's an X, it's more difficult, right,
because I've heard people tell me, oh, well, that person
knows what you look like naked and this and that.
But also time passes and as adults, yeah, no offense.
(23:16):
I it's been so long girl, I don't even know.
So sorry. Really, I am that memorable I am on
the markets. I feel like a lot of people are
afraid of opening that door with their X because they're
(23:37):
worried that something about them will be revealed as a
result of bringing that person into their life. For example. Okay,
so before I want to hear your elaboration, but I E.
Let's say that I am have an experience with a
prior partner that I'm not proud of. Yes, right, whether
(23:58):
it be mistreating them all's words, cheating, whatever the case
may be. If I've moved on from that, however, that
relationship resolved and I'm dating you now, right, I feel
like a part of being afraid or tumultuous to you know,
being friends with the X that you have connections with, etcetera, is, Oh,
I don't want my new partner to know what my
(24:22):
past love life was, right. So what do you guys
feel like about that? Do you feel like they're you
have to be accountable with yourself? Is that part of
the problem? Take it away? UM? So yeah, I mean,
obviously there's a huge amount of vulnerability in starting a
friendship with an X. UM. You know, like in my case,
(24:44):
of course, there are things I didn't in our relationship
that I wasn't proud of. UM, just kidding, you know, UM.
And but it's not really so much about you know,
I don't want my current partner to find out about
those things because you know, like you were saying earlier
in this episode, UM, apart from like willingness to for
(25:08):
both parties to want to be friends or needs to
be time and space right, So us reconnecting starting a friendship,
you could see how I've changed totally. And when we
first started being friends, you were basically unfamiliar to me, right,
we have two were different become friends? Yeah, we had
to become friends. Yeah, So, um, I think you know
(25:28):
with with that, I don't think you would have invited
me no pun intended in your own world. Um, if
I was still that same person, you know, so of
course I would want to be friends with you. Would
I be scared about you telling an act or something, No,
(25:49):
because that's vindictive behavior and that's not behavior someone who
loves and support to you. Would I be comfortable coming
to you and talking about things I did that I
wasn't proud of with my current partner, because you know
me a lot better and you've seen the trajectory of
my changing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't know, Jim, what
do you think? I think that what you were saying
(26:11):
earlier is like a two scenario situation. I think that
there are people who don't want to be friends with
their X or don't want to introduce their ex into
their life because of unresolved emotions and there might be
something lingering there between them and they don't want to
face that. I mean, because there's plenty of people who
(26:32):
are like, oh, I have no I mean, maybe you
just don't have an interest in having a friendship with
your ex, And that's perfectly fine. I mean there are
people that I've dated that I don't have as an
active part of my life, and I'm perfectly fine. It
is what it is. You know, we we spent our
time together and that it was over and it ended there.
If you want to have a relationship with your ex,
(26:53):
what are the steps that you can do to do so?
You have to have trust with your partner. If you're
in a relationship, yes, you're in a relation, because you
may not be in a relationship and you may just
want to have a friendship with you, then you have
to have trust in yourself, right, yeah, exactly. And knowing this,
you have to know where you're at. You have to
(27:14):
acknowledge where you're at, because it's very different to hit
up an X and say, hey, I want to talk
to you because I want to clear the air and
I would love to have you some part of my life.
And there's a booty call, right Have you ever not
dated somebody and then at the conclusion of your relationship
you're like, you know what honestly, we're just way better
off as friends or we never should have really dated.
(27:38):
You go those like great candidates for X friends the
time there you go where you know what great sege?
Where are your ex friends? My ex friends? Yeah, your
(28:05):
friends who are also your exs. You know what's so
funny is that sometimes when I'm speaking about care like
Kara's being spoken about when she's not in the room,
somebody will say, oh, JEMs X Kara and I get
offended you're not my ex. We put enough time into
our friendship, and it's I feel like it reduces our
(28:27):
friendship anytime it's we're referred to as each other's ex
because also, second of all, well we also stopped dating
what like almost ten years ago, exactly, so exactly in
my case, the reason why my exes aren't around is
because it ended in a way that I don't think
it's beneficial to my life even in a friendship. Do
(28:50):
you are there? Is there anyone that you've dated that
you'd like to be friends with? I what's stopping you?
Because I know that you guys left off on really
bad terms. Do you know who I'm talking about? Yeah?
I do, I know you. I know exactly who you're
talking about. I know exactly who it is that I
(29:14):
don't have a couple of excess that i'd like to
be friends with. I feel like you want to do
music with some of your excess. But but the one
is the specific that I'm talking about, which I believe
is the one that you were thinking about when you
said that. I feel like and I want to know
that maybe one of the reasons why you haven't rekindled
that that friendship, for that line of communication is because
(29:37):
there's hurt there that it still hasn't been resolved. Yeah.
I mean, so that's the thing that, like you said,
time and space right when I when I came to Kara,
before we had any kind of closure conversation, I had
already forgiven her, and I had also forgiven myself for
(30:00):
how I showed up in that relationship. And I that
was sign Field delivered. What happened. I did, I did,
I did, I did. Okay, But I mean, seriously, I mean, seriously,
wasn't hard for you guys to forgive each other? How
was that process? I did that already. That was a
solo journey for me. I forgave her years before I
(30:24):
even by the time that I started announcing, you know,
I would really like to reach out to her. I
was already she had been forgiven in my eyes, and
I had already forgiven myself. That was a clean Um. Well,
like I said earlier, we had we had, you know,
had several conversations, we had tried to you know, be
in each other's lives. Um, it's just like it just
(30:44):
didn't Well, I mean, we maybe made some fetle, but
nothing really stuck because I don't sure like I had
forgiven her, maybe I hadn't forgiven myself, and um, so
I don't know. Maybe I just didn't want to go
there and that in that way. And um, I didn't
know that you had, you know, forgiven me for for
(31:07):
certain things. Um. But I did take a lot of
time between you know, starting to have a friendship and
when we actually did to forgive you for certain things
in the relationship. You have to forgive me, forgive you,
and then also like forgive myself and like, you know,
realize that no, I'm not I'm not a bad person,
(31:29):
you know, especially not nineteen and extremely hormonal. Let's also
put that out there. We were children. We were children
with way so much freedom at art school that says it.
All relationships can also make you feel certain things about yourself,
and when you're young, you have to put that in perspective.
(31:51):
And that's why I look up to you guys a lot,
and like you said, where your ex is, I hope
one day to be able to have this kind of
a relation and ship. Maybe it's emotional immaturity which I
need to work on, you know, it's something that every
day I say, why am I angry about this? Why
does it still hurt? I remember somebody telling me which
(32:14):
has stuck to me until today. Everybody that impacts your life,
imagine an invisible thread between you and them, and no
matter how far they unravel from you, so as long
as that thread exists and you don't cut it, you're
still connected. Connected. So that's uh, that's exactly why. If
(32:37):
Carol wouldn't have wanted to be my friend, I would
have been okay because I had released that version of
her in my head and if she would have cut
it right there, the thread would have been gone. Yes.
And also you know we did take it slow, We
(32:58):
took it, but we mentioned we were getting to know
each other. We're getting to know each other. Yeah, because
you know, there's also not that guarantee. You know, we
both changed a lot, and there was no guarantee that
we both still have that friendship that was so special
right to the both of us that existed within our relationship,
you know. So it was like relearning each other. And then,
(33:18):
you know, after a certain amount of time, I felt
like nothing had changed. I know, it's still talk on
the phone for hours, Like what do we talk about? Dude?
I don't know. Okay, it still happens sometimes, but but
it didn't start that way, didn't. It was like after
we had that Boston conversation, it was like every couple
of months like, hey, how are you? Hope you're doing
well and well wishes from a distance. Yeah, And then
(33:42):
it was like kind of like an organic friendship solely,
but surely we started to share more about ourselves and
our life. Okay, so to that token, I'm going to
be honest with you, We're gonna just right like you said,
after some time, it feels like nothing has changed. That
isn't imidating to a relationship when there are three hours
(34:03):
of conversation and then you tell your partner, hey, let's
cuddle and they're like, no, I'm going to bed, I
just you know whatever, And then you're like, oh, they've
dated this person, is there? I guarantee you everybody. I
would love to meet somebody who doesn't have this thought. Oh,
there's plenty of That's why I'm saying, I just want
to do it because I want to help people feel okay,
but also like real back their emotions. That's I think
(34:27):
that you're doing it in real time, Like if you
are really feeling intense feelings of like jealousy or insecurity,
you need to look at yourself. Well unless your partner
has given you a reason like well prior to cheating
or anything like that, right, which obviously hasn't happening, right,
But well not obviously, but it hasn't happened here because
you know what happens all the time. It does happen
(34:49):
all the time. But I'm saying, like, the source of
insecurity isn't me my action. It's what I'm saying is
in that case, the sorce of insecurity was me. And
also I've had a relation chips in the past where
I've been cheated on. I always operate from I'm unsafe,
I need to protect myself and that's also not fair because,
like Jem said, if your partner is showing up and
(35:10):
showing out and being honest with you, then it's not
fair for you to be overly jealous, overly possessive, overly
worried if they haven't given you any reason to be
right exactly. And you also know that I'm the kind
of person who will tell you, hey, I want to
stay at the bar, go home if you want. And
if I wanted to be with somebody that wasn't you,
(35:31):
I just would be You would tell me you'd break
my heart, but you'd tell me. Maybe that's the key.
I'm just saying, you know, So now I'm exhilarated that
you're here, Like I said, like I feel like you know,
apart from Jem, you know, we have our own rapport,
which is also important because you shouldn't keep that relationship
(35:53):
isolated a vacuum from your partner. Now, if Jem says, hey,
I have to have a private conversation, I have to
respect that. But also there's no reason why she say,
oh no, you can't talk to her. You can't know
what's going on. That's also not healthy. So it's a balance,
you know, of here's my boundaries, right, and also here's
(36:14):
the part of that. You can join in my life
and feel comfortable and feel safe and whatever. And like
Jim always says, you know where your bed is, regardless
of your sexuality. Connections with people can be intimidating and
you have to I feel like the most important thing
is to be secure in your relationship with a lot
(36:35):
of people, aren't they aren't. You shouldn't sell yourself short
because here's the thing. If I died tomorrow, right, and
I lived all my days up until now doing what
makes you happy, I never lived for me. I might
as well have just given you my life the moment
(36:57):
that we met. Now, am I gonna go and outright
do something that makes you unhappy? Well, no, that's called compromise.
But there are non negotiables and all healthy relationships and
they need to exist because that's how you draw the
line of the stand around yourself and say here is
(37:17):
where I am. And once you pass this line, you're
encroaching on my space. So to have a secure relationship,
you have to be secure yourself. You have to be
honest with yourself about who you are and whatever that means.
You just have to remember that you are the only
(37:38):
person that lives with yourself a percent of the time,
and so you have to be true to whoever that is.
Whoever that is, don't lie to yourself. I love knowing you.
I love having you be a part of our life.
I wouldn't change it for anything. I really wouldn't. And
I know in my heart that what you guys have
(37:58):
as a beautiful relationship built on years of knowing each
other from a young age, which I think is a
beautiful thing. When you spend four minive years together, right,
that's a different bond to bond that you just it's
special and what you and I have is special and
you don't have to compete. No, there is enough room
(38:19):
for infinite special in this world exactly. We can share
the special and you know what, I feel like we've
gotten closer. Well, it's a learning it's a learning experience
for all three of us, because neither of us have
been in this situation before. I love the three of
us hanging out. It's not it's it goes way beyond
(38:43):
like the physical plane. For me. I love the both
of you so much, and I'm glad that we get
to share in music and in life together. I think
that we have a banging time work. You just can't.
I couldn't. I couldn't help myself. But seriously, I think
that we all naturally enjoy each other's company. And even
(39:06):
if we didn't, even if we didn't all happen to
get along and have that affinity between us, I would
like to think that Emily would still respect our friendship.
When you and Emily met I, you and I had
already broken up before. Yeah, so how was it for
like those two worlds to collide? I will so when
(39:28):
I when I saw I think I found out on Snapchat,
Oh my god, Jail daily Mail, and I saw it
and I had a sound. I was like, oh, look
there's there's Geminem. I was like. I was like, I
was like what And then you guys just look so
happy and just so adorable, And I was like, God,
this makes so much sense, It so much sense. I was.
(39:50):
I've always always been really really happy for you guys. No, dude,
I mean we are growing and learning people I know,
and I've gotten to grow and learn with you guys.
You know, you guys are filing the papers to adopt
me by but yeah, I know it's your your guys,
(40:16):
relationship is very, very inspirational, very truly. Thank you. Alright, guys,
final thoughts, Let's give the people what they want. Let's
take it away, all right. What lesbians be whacked? Straight
up will be wacked. Everybody be wet. Where your ads.
(40:39):
I'm just waiting for my moment. My name and step
and I'm here to say that my name is Gemen.
That's my name. What inspiration? Well, thank you guys for
having me on, especially as your first guest. This is
a huge, huge honor. Um, So thank you for this
amazing conversation, for your honesty and for your time, and
(41:04):
for your friendship both of you. I love you both.
I like you both. Put on a postcard. I love
you all. And so you out there who's listening, thank
you for being here on this journey with us at
in our Own World podcast and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at in our Own World Pod, where
we're gonna be sharing exclusive content and behind the scenes.
This podcast is brought to you by Moonflower Productions in
(41:27):
partnership with I Hearts Michael Duda podcast Network. For more podcasts,
visit the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Captain, I hate you the same. Let's go to a
man one trying to catay ready for during the same lunch.
(00:32):
Welcome back to in our own world. How you doing, baby,
I'm doing pretty good, pretty good, pretty excited to be here,
pretty excited, kind of excited, kind of nervous, but you
know it is what it is. Why nervous? What are
we talking about today? Gee? I wonder what we'll we'll
welcome to Planet X our explosions, fireworks. I mean, look,
(00:57):
let's be honest everybody with that. You're straight, whether you're gay,
you're wondering what is the appropriate relationship to have with
your ex? Can you have one? Will you have one?
What's the vibe? What do you think they? I think
it depends. I think it depends on a lot of things.
All right, we're gonna we're gonna get into it. I
(01:17):
think it depends on a if you're willing. Right, First
of all, you have to want to be friends with
your ex in order to be friends with your ex,
and your ex also has to be willing to be
friends with you. Otherwise the point is moved and the
conversations over. B you have to have enough space and
time from the situation to be able to approach it
(01:40):
from a new perspective, because if you're a few months
away from your breakup, there's no way you and your
ex can be friends. And why do you think that, Well,
because I think that feelings are fresh, and um, there's
probably an alterior motive behind your friendship m that it's
not just friendship. Uh. And then see, I think probably
(02:07):
equally as important as number one is whatever relationship that
you find yourself in in the moment, or maybe you're
not in a relationship, maybe you're single. You have to
be secure enough in yourself and in the decision to
have those kinds of friendships in order to carry them forward.
And you have to present that in an honest way
to your partner so that they understand that that's something
(02:29):
that's important to you or something that goes on in
your life. So let's talk about that, because I know
the last time in our where when we welcomed people
to our world, we were explaining to them, you know,
we fell in love, and falling in love is beautiful,
it's a wonderful thing. But when we fell in love,
for example, you know, there was a period of time
(02:50):
where they were not other people included in our love story,
as you would say, for example, like even our parents
are friends, you know, UM talks about our ex girlfriends
or boyfriends. That was out of the peripherty. It was
all about you and me or in our own world,
no pun intended, but it was true, it really were.
(03:12):
But what do you have to offer people like in
that moment from when you're keeping your relationship a secret too? Okay,
well that's not I don't think that that's I think
that's an entirely different conversation because you and I made
that decision on purpose, but it was probably more because
we didn't want to publicize our relationship than anything else.
But even when you and I first started dating, I
(03:36):
was very upfront with you about who I was and
the kind of person that I was, and a friendship
with my ex was a part of that person, even
though at that time I wasn't friends with that X. Yeah,
but you know, I thought that it was an incredible
thing and I liked it. I mean, it was I'm
not gonna lie. It was difficult for me what what
(03:59):
was before or after? Because you remember that there was
a specific X that I had spoken to you about
that I shared that I had a lot of love
for that. I felt I had a great relationship with
outside of the romantic feelings, and that after spending five
or five and a half years on and off, I
mean we were high school girlfriends. Consider that also also,
(04:21):
but after love is very impactful, don't you think? For sure?
For sure? For sure? Right? But I wanted something to
show for that. I felt like we had gone through
a lot in that five and a half years, and
I was like, fuck it, We've already dedicated this much
time to each other. We know each other so well,
probably better than most of my other friendships would ever
get to know me. Why can't there be a benefit
(04:44):
to this? Why can't we get something out of it,
even long after the romance is over? And it was
you who encouraged me to reach out because I was nervous.
I was not I did not want to get rejected.
My little ego was not prepared for I don't want
to be your friend. I was like, let me not
even go there. It's tough because at some point somebody
(05:07):
has to put themselves out there, right yeah. And I
think that if I would have reached out and she
would have been like, you know, I'm not interested in
having a friendship with you. That would have been okay
because I also just cleared the air between us, and
sometimes that's nice, although closure isn't always guaranteed. And when
you started sharing with me, well, look, this is my
past and these are the experiences that I've had, and
(05:27):
I felt at first afraid, afraid of what it just
I'm not sure, Like I guess, falling in love with
someone you don't want to hear about their past, right,
But then that's a naive perspective because don't you want
to know the person that you're falling in love with.
(05:48):
I think that there are also exceptions to that rule,
and what are the exceptions? I think that in my
personal experience, I don't think you should share everything in
your new relationship about your past. I think that if
there are stories that you feel are relevant to who
you are at that moment when you're beginning that relationship,
that can help paint a picture about who you are
(06:11):
to somebody who doesn't know you. But I don't think
that there's like an obligation or necessarily a recommendation to say,
start a new relationship and then open up your past.
I know plenty of people who have never talked about
their past with their partners. I came from the background
of oh, I'm not going to share anything, right, you know,
and I felt like it was like, all right, new chapter,
(06:32):
new person. It is right however right. It was very
refreshing to meet you, love you equally, be as afraid
of you as I was enticed. I was afraid of
you because you were everything that I guess I wanted
(06:53):
to be and didn't understand how to be. I'll never
forget like one of the first times we started dating,
and it was like our second date and we were
out with a friend and whatever, and you were like, oh,
I'm on this vibe, you know, like I want to
keep dancing and I want to keep doing this thing.
And it was equal parts attractive and equal policy scary
(07:17):
because I was like, oh, so I'm out with you, right,
and you're gonna go do your thing. But meanwhile I'm like, like,
I'm attached to you, you know what I mean? And
I was I was like, I want you to be here,
but if you don't want to be here, you don't
have to be here. But this is where I want
to be. Boundaries. Boundaries are big thing. That's something that
(07:42):
especially not only in the Latino culture, but as women
we face like understanding how to set boundaries without feeling
like you're crossing somebody else's line, which you should never
feel because when you make your boundaries for yourself, that's
self respect, then you are able to help somebody else,
love somebody else, etcetera. So on that note, you're really
(08:06):
excited about this. This was one of the first topics
that you actually came up with at the inception of
this project many months ago. And it's no surprise to
me knowing you as well as I do and knowing
how you feel about this. This is episode two. I
think it's very important to understand when and when not
(08:29):
it is appropriate to be friends or acquaintances with an
ex partner. And there's a simple answer to that, and
what is that. It's entirely up to you. It really is.
You're the only person that knows yourself, that truly knows
yourself to your core and knows what you're capable of
and where your head is at. And if you are
(08:50):
the kind of person that is interested in having friendships
with your ex is, then you're probably talking about it,
or I would hope being honest with your partner about it,
or even if you don't have a partner. I don't
think a lot of people are. No. I don't think that,
especially in the heterosexual community, being friends with your ex
is a common thing. I think that that has a
lot to do with the fact that in same sex
(09:11):
relationships we probably have more things in common, more things
that are outside of like your typical romance common. But
I also feel like that's like a line that people
don't allow themselves to cross. I know plenty of my
heterosexual friends who are like, oh no, my girlfriend could
never be friends with their X or oh no, I
would never let my boyfriend talk to any of their exces.
(09:33):
And the question is like, a why are you so insecure?
Because I think we all know here if you've been
in a relationship, you can't stop anybody. People are gonna
do what they want to whether you like it or not,
and if you stand in your way, all you're doing
is delaying the process of when you're going to find
out the truth. Because the truth is coming, booble, and
they going to do it right in your face, or
(09:54):
they're gonna do it behind your back, but they're gonna
do it anyway, So ay, why are you so insecure
last time I checked? You know where your bed is?
Last time I checked? You know where your bed is
in the day that you don't want to lay next
to me. There's a door, and don't let the door,
and I'm hitchure with the good Lord Switchet. That's really
what it all boils down to. That's really all it
boils down to. You can't keep somebody beside you just
(10:15):
because you don't want to look at them. They face
for who they are. I love you so much because
you are the most honest person I've ever met. But
I have to just hitch you with the truth, the truth, truth,
the truth, with the truth, truth, truth. What I gotta
tell you is most people are not like that. Let's
be real here, and I want to hear what people
have to say because being again, I've been with women,
(10:36):
have been with men. I feel like I've changed the
person that I am depending on who I'm with, and
I feel like most people are like that. Now I'm
not going to change my morals that, you know, whatever
the case may be. I'm me. You know that I'm
very authentic. However, you know you're going on a date
with someone who likes this. I think we all do that.
I do that well, where because you want them to
(10:58):
find you interesting. Yeah. Then you have someone that you're
dating and they're like, oh, I've never done this, or
that's lying. But that's what I'm saying. I feel like
at some point when you're dating, dating comes with lying.
It's it's no. I think what I think dating comes
with pomp and circumstance. I think that dating comes with
(11:19):
the stance. She's lying. It's the same. No, it's not,
it's not, it's not. I think that we are like, oh,
I think hold on a minute. I think that we exaggerate.
I think that we make ourselves seem better than we're falling,
lying exaggerat Now I think it's different. I think it's different.
I think lying is lying, and I think that you're
(11:40):
not claiming to be somebody that you're I'd hope when
you're dating somebody, you're not claiming to be somebody that
you're not. Also, it's it's ironic, but the truth will
really set you free. Yeah, it'll set everybody free. God,
and it'll save you a lot of wasted time. Amen. So,
now that we're talking about this amazing conversation about you know,
(12:03):
x is, how to be friends, how to be honest, etcetera.
What do you think ex? Etcetera, etcetera. I think that
we should invite somebody to join us and join the conversation.
Who my ex? Alright, so we have a really special
(12:38):
guest joining us today, somebody that we were referencing earlier
that we thought we should invite to the table due
to our mutual lived experience. Carol Elizabeth McCarthy, Welcome to
in our own world. Thank you guys for having me,
honestly as your first guest. I am very very honored
(13:01):
and way too flattered. If you haven't gathered yet, Kara
is my ex. And she's not just my ex, she's
my friend and and she's also your friend. Let's talk
about that for a second. So there's a funny story
attached to that discovery. There is, Yeah, there is. I
(13:21):
don't think you've actually heard this story before, Kara. Oh,
then double wow. So m was playing a show at
south By Southwest and we were getting ready and I
was going to go with her, and we wanted to
bring a camera because we're like we're traveling, you know,
we want to take photos of each other, and I
was like, hey, you know what, I actually have this
camera in the back that I had in college that
(13:43):
I don't really need, and I don't need any of
those pictures there in my computer. Take it and just
empty it out. And I was like, oh, okay, cool
for real. So I'm going through the camera, scrolling eracing pictures,
and all of a sudden I stumble on a picture
of you in Emily's apartment and I was like what
(14:07):
she was likely? I was like, uh so, who is
this girl and how do you know her? No? No, no.
Your exact words were, um, why is my ex girlfriend
sitting at your kitchen counter? I was really scared that
you were going to tell me that you guys like
hooked up or something. I love you. I love you, though,
(14:33):
was like a brother, Oh God, tell you. From the
moment that I met you. We were in Berkeley. We
went to Berkeley College of Music together, and I remember
being in the hallway for some percussion class and everybody's
like nervous and anxious and we're outside, like, you know,
doing whatever. And when we got in the class, I
(14:54):
think I told you, like you remind me of someone
from back home, like something like that. Super random? Was
it the Miami accident? I think I had lost that
then thankfully you think so? But oh god, no, Carol,
were you like, Hi, I'm Karen McCarthy. I was born
(15:15):
in Miami, Florida. There's something in you that I recognize. No,
but for real, like, I thought you were rad. I
thought you were awesome despite despite the Miami thing whatever.
And so I remember that when I was starting Berkeley,
you were like on your way out, and so we
(15:35):
had a brief interaction, but it was over to your
apartment and everything. Yeah, a couple of times. It was
super awesome. It was extremely brief, So I think m
you and I we overlapped for maybe two semesters. I
think it was like yeah, literally, which in college is
like it's done. But anyway, so the point is that, yeah,
(15:58):
I said, oh, we're gonna do a plarad in my apartment.
You came over and I took those pictures, snap snap.
Then cut two years later, I meet this gorgeous woman,
fall in love with her, and then we are months
later talking about the situation. The camera comes up and
there we are. So at that point things became interesting.
(16:22):
Kara entered the chat, right, So how did that go?
How did it go from there? For what what happened? Well,
to be honest with you, it's been a couple of years,
so I don't remember that that much, but I do
remember that you and I had some conversations about Kara,
and I told you that, you know, I'll always love her,
I'll always wish her the best, but I was carrying
(16:42):
the weight of not having any kind of resolution with
her for a while. And then finally, like probably like
maybe a year year and a half into us having
these conversations, you were like, you should just reach out
to her, Jim, and I was Dawn, I should So yeah,
(17:04):
as your girlfriend at that time, I'm your new girlfriend,
and I love that you were sharing with me about
your life, etcetera. We had had this you know, person
in common, etcetera. So you would tell me, oh stories
about your time together and your most of all, your
connection not romantically, but as friends, as people who had
(17:27):
something in common. So at that point I'm like, oh,
I'm the coolest girlfriend. Let's go. And I really felt
this way because I knew you and I knew you
were rad and I was like, Jem, don't leave it
unresolved to do something about it, right, you know. And
then what I remember, I would always tell you the
(17:48):
three of us would just be the best of friends.
I always felt like Emily and I would have especially
funny enough musical interactions, and I was like, oh my god,
Karen would fit right in like that dummy, let's stop
right there, because that's not easy as a girlfriend to hear,
right right, I was intimidated, I'm not gonna lie, I
(18:09):
get out of here this one. That's hysterical. But because
I feel like that's a talking about it as a
natural thing, I think that was like your innate reaction
that came from the upgrading like societal expectation of X
is sure. But I'm very, very curious to know how
(18:29):
that was for you, and how you navigated that with
Germany throughout your relationship, and and and how we how
we got to this point of us all three being
really good friends, you know. Okay, So at first, I remember,
shortly after I told you, you know, um you should
(18:50):
reach out to her, I was equal parts excited to
meet you and equal parts like, oh crap, maybe they
should like stay away from our relationship or or re
meet me in a different text right, Right, So I
had a show in Boston. Yeah, and I remember at
the time you were living in Boston. Yes, I was,
And I'm like, dude, this is a perfect time, like
(19:12):
I before my show, like meet up clearly air bring
her to the show. Yeah. I remember you said that, like,
let's do it, you know, can I can? I just
safely from my perspective. So between when we broke up
and we became friends, right, there was a few years
where we, you know, would talk and then kind of
(19:34):
like tested the waters. You know, I wasn't really interested
a lot of the time, or you know, Geminy had
better things going on. Um. So when she did text me,
you know, it was at a time in my life where, um,
I was becoming increasingly comfortable with myself and with navigating
(19:56):
you know, my relationships and friendships with my exes. Um.
And I remember you reaching out and saying, hey, like,
no pressure, I'm be in town if you want to
meet up and get a drink, I'd love to. And
I texted you back, and partly I was at work
down the street from where you were playing. I really
didn't want to be there anymore. So partially I was like, yeah,
(20:20):
when are you free? And I remember you text me
back being like for real. Yeah. I wasn't shocked because
I fully expected you to be like no, And I
was like, I was like, don't don't get too flattered yet.
We'll see what happens. And you're like all right, you know,
she was already rolling her eyes. Um. And then we
had a great conversation, and then um, you took me
to M show. And I remember M looking at me
(20:43):
and being excited to see me and like waving and
you know, and I was standing next to you, and
obviously she saw me next to you. Obviously she knew
like what was going on, and um, you know, she
like did like a wave in like a little heart
and I was like, okay, like shit, like I was
experiencing vicarious joy. I was like, we're all going to
be friends. You were, I think, so okay, tell me
(21:06):
if I'm wrong. I think that you recognize that it
was important to me and you were happy that clearly
it was a successful conversation. If she showed up to
your show, I was thrilled. I was so happy. And
also I have a lot of respect for you as
a musician. Thank you for real, because that's here we
go that Evan Kara compliment fest. It's not a compliment fest.
(21:27):
It's another love language, like when you understand when you
can speak music with someone and you know, like the
first time I met her keys, guitar or whatever, I
was like, all right, she's right whatever. So I was
excited to see her there and I was I was
happy that I could tell that it went well. Right,
But after that, like in any partnership, you want to
(21:48):
support your partner and then it elaborates, it keeps going right.
So when you guys started talking more right, I'm not
gonna lie, that was difficult for I was trying to
understand where to place it because in my headspace, I
never knew how to deal with that. When I break
up with the next alright, gone bye, gone to the next.
(22:11):
And also maybe that's my experience, like you said, person
to person, because my ends of relationships had been a
little more tumultuous. I really do think that it's about
what both parties want. I would love to be friends
with some of my exits I thought they were I
have to be wonderful too. Sorry to you guys out there,
(22:31):
love you, But most of it was not sexual. It
was personality and action. It was I love the way
you do. You like someone for a reason, and just
because you're not sleeping with them anymore doesn't make those
feelings go away exactly? Know you here? First, maybe let's
(22:52):
go where is the line of all right? Even with
any friend? You know, Like, if you're in a relationship,
is there a moment where it's like, all right, this
is inappropriate? What do you guys? What do you mean?
With any friends? So when it's an X, it's more difficult, right,
because I've heard people tell me, oh, well, that person
knows what you look like naked and this and that.
But also time passes and as adults, yeah, no offense.
(23:16):
I it's been so long girl, I don't even know.
So sorry. Really, I am that memorable I am on
the markets. I feel like a lot of people are
afraid of opening that door with their X because they're
(23:37):
worried that something about them will be revealed as a
result of bringing that person into their life. For example. Okay,
so before I want to hear your elaboration, but I E.
Let's say that I am have an experience with a
prior partner that I'm not proud of. Yes, right, whether
(23:58):
it be mistreating them all's words, cheating, whatever the case
may be. If I've moved on from that, however, that
relationship resolved and I'm dating you now, right, I feel
like a part of being afraid or tumultuous to you know,
being friends with the X that you have connections with, etcetera, is, Oh,
I don't want my new partner to know what my
(24:22):
past love life was, right. So what do you guys
feel like about that? Do you feel like they're you
have to be accountable with yourself? Is that part of
the problem? Take it away? UM? So yeah, I mean,
obviously there's a huge amount of vulnerability in starting a
friendship with an X. UM. You know, like in my case,
(24:44):
of course, there are things I didn't in our relationship
that I wasn't proud of. UM, just kidding, you know, UM.
And but it's not really so much about you know,
I don't want my current partner to find out about
those things because you know, like you were saying earlier
in this episode, UM, apart from like willingness to for
(25:08):
both parties to want to be friends or needs to
be time and space right, So us reconnecting starting a friendship,
you could see how I've changed totally. And when we
first started being friends, you were basically unfamiliar to me, right,
we have two were different become friends? Yeah, we had
to become friends. Yeah, So, um, I think you know
(25:28):
with with that, I don't think you would have invited
me no pun intended in your own world. Um, if
I was still that same person, you know, so of
course I would want to be friends with you. Would
I be scared about you telling an act or something, No,
(25:49):
because that's vindictive behavior and that's not behavior someone who
loves and support to you. Would I be comfortable coming
to you and talking about things I did that I
wasn't proud of with my current partner, because you know
me a lot better and you've seen the trajectory of
my changing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't know, Jim, what
do you think? I think that what you were saying
(26:11):
earlier is like a two scenario situation. I think that
there are people who don't want to be friends with
their X or don't want to introduce their ex into
their life because of unresolved emotions and there might be
something lingering there between them and they don't want to
face that. I mean, because there's plenty of people who
(26:32):
are like, oh, I have no I mean, maybe you
just don't have an interest in having a friendship with
your ex, And that's perfectly fine. I mean there are
people that I've dated that I don't have as an
active part of my life, and I'm perfectly fine. It
is what it is. You know, we we spent our
time together and that it was over and it ended there.
If you want to have a relationship with your ex,
(26:53):
what are the steps that you can do to do so?
You have to have trust with your partner. If you're
in a relationship, yes, you're in a relation, because you
may not be in a relationship and you may just
want to have a friendship with you, then you have
to have trust in yourself, right, yeah, exactly. And knowing this,
you have to know where you're at. You have to
(27:14):
acknowledge where you're at, because it's very different to hit
up an X and say, hey, I want to talk
to you because I want to clear the air and
I would love to have you some part of my life.
And there's a booty call, right Have you ever not
dated somebody and then at the conclusion of your relationship
you're like, you know what honestly, we're just way better
off as friends or we never should have really dated.
(27:38):
You go those like great candidates for X friends the
time there you go where you know what great sege?
Where are your ex friends? My ex friends? Yeah, your
(28:05):
friends who are also your exs. You know what's so
funny is that sometimes when I'm speaking about care like
Kara's being spoken about when she's not in the room,
somebody will say, oh, JEMs X Kara and I get
offended you're not my ex. We put enough time into
our friendship, and it's I feel like it reduces our
(28:27):
friendship anytime it's we're referred to as each other's ex
because also, second of all, well we also stopped dating
what like almost ten years ago, exactly, so exactly in
my case, the reason why my exes aren't around is
because it ended in a way that I don't think
it's beneficial to my life even in a friendship. Do
(28:50):
you are there? Is there anyone that you've dated that
you'd like to be friends with? I what's stopping you?
Because I know that you guys left off on really
bad terms. Do you know who I'm talking about? Yeah?
I do, I know you. I know exactly who you're
talking about. I know exactly who it is that I
(29:14):
don't have a couple of excess that i'd like to
be friends with. I feel like you want to do
music with some of your excess. But but the one
is the specific that I'm talking about, which I believe
is the one that you were thinking about when you
said that. I feel like and I want to know
that maybe one of the reasons why you haven't rekindled
that that friendship, for that line of communication is because
(29:37):
there's hurt there that it still hasn't been resolved. Yeah.
I mean, so that's the thing that, like you said,
time and space right when I when I came to Kara,
before we had any kind of closure conversation, I had
already forgiven her, and I had also forgiven myself for
(30:00):
how I showed up in that relationship. And I that
was sign Field delivered. What happened. I did, I did,
I did, I did. Okay, But I mean, seriously, I mean, seriously,
wasn't hard for you guys to forgive each other? How
was that process? I did that already. That was a
solo journey for me. I forgave her years before I
(30:24):
even by the time that I started announcing, you know,
I would really like to reach out to her. I
was already she had been forgiven in my eyes, and
I had already forgiven myself. That was a clean Um. Well,
like I said earlier, we had we had, you know,
had several conversations, we had tried to you know, be
in each other's lives. Um, it's just like it just
(30:44):
didn't Well, I mean, we maybe made some fetle, but
nothing really stuck because I don't sure like I had
forgiven her, maybe I hadn't forgiven myself, and um, so
I don't know. Maybe I just didn't want to go
there and that in that way. And um, I didn't
know that you had, you know, forgiven me for for
(31:07):
certain things. Um. But I did take a lot of
time between you know, starting to have a friendship and
when we actually did to forgive you for certain things
in the relationship. You have to forgive me, forgive you,
and then also like forgive myself and like, you know,
realize that no, I'm not I'm not a bad person,
(31:29):
you know, especially not nineteen and extremely hormonal. Let's also
put that out there. We were children. We were children
with way so much freedom at art school that says it.
All relationships can also make you feel certain things about yourself,
and when you're young, you have to put that in perspective.
(31:51):
And that's why I look up to you guys a lot,
and like you said, where your ex is, I hope
one day to be able to have this kind of
a relation and ship. Maybe it's emotional immaturity which I
need to work on, you know, it's something that every
day I say, why am I angry about this? Why
does it still hurt? I remember somebody telling me which
(32:14):
has stuck to me until today. Everybody that impacts your life,
imagine an invisible thread between you and them, and no
matter how far they unravel from you, so as long
as that thread exists and you don't cut it, you're
still connected. Connected. So that's uh, that's exactly why. If
(32:37):
Carol wouldn't have wanted to be my friend, I would
have been okay because I had released that version of
her in my head and if she would have cut
it right there, the thread would have been gone. Yes.
And also you know we did take it slow, We
(32:58):
took it, but we mentioned we were getting to know
each other. We're getting to know each other. Yeah, because
you know, there's also not that guarantee. You know, we
both changed a lot, and there was no guarantee that
we both still have that friendship that was so special
right to the both of us that existed within our relationship,
you know. So it was like relearning each other. And then,
(33:18):
you know, after a certain amount of time, I felt
like nothing had changed. I know, it's still talk on
the phone for hours, Like what do we talk about? Dude?
I don't know. Okay, it still happens sometimes, but but
it didn't start that way, didn't. It was like after
we had that Boston conversation, it was like every couple
of months like, hey, how are you? Hope you're doing
well and well wishes from a distance. Yeah, And then
(33:42):
it was like kind of like an organic friendship solely,
but surely we started to share more about ourselves and
our life. Okay, so to that token, I'm going to
be honest with you, We're gonna just right like you said,
after some time, it feels like nothing has changed. That
isn't imidating to a relationship when there are three hours
(34:03):
of conversation and then you tell your partner, hey, let's
cuddle and they're like, no, I'm going to bed, I
just you know whatever, And then you're like, oh, they've
dated this person, is there? I guarantee you everybody. I
would love to meet somebody who doesn't have this thought. Oh,
there's plenty of That's why I'm saying, I just want
to do it because I want to help people feel okay,
but also like real back their emotions. That's I think
(34:27):
that you're doing it in real time, Like if you
are really feeling intense feelings of like jealousy or insecurity,
you need to look at yourself. Well unless your partner
has given you a reason like well prior to cheating
or anything like that, right, which obviously hasn't happening, right,
But well not obviously, but it hasn't happened here because
you know what happens all the time. It does happen
(34:49):
all the time. But I'm saying, like, the source of
insecurity isn't me my action. It's what I'm saying is
in that case, the sorce of insecurity was me. And
also I've had a relation chips in the past where
I've been cheated on. I always operate from I'm unsafe,
I need to protect myself and that's also not fair because,
like Jem said, if your partner is showing up and
(35:10):
showing out and being honest with you, then it's not
fair for you to be overly jealous, overly possessive, overly
worried if they haven't given you any reason to be
right exactly. And you also know that I'm the kind
of person who will tell you, hey, I want to
stay at the bar, go home if you want. And
if I wanted to be with somebody that wasn't you,
(35:31):
I just would be You would tell me you'd break
my heart, but you'd tell me. Maybe that's the key.
I'm just saying, you know, So now I'm exhilarated that
you're here, Like I said, like I feel like you know,
apart from Jem, you know, we have our own rapport,
which is also important because you shouldn't keep that relationship
(35:53):
isolated a vacuum from your partner. Now, if Jem says, hey,
I have to have a private conversation, I have to
respect that. But also there's no reason why she say,
oh no, you can't talk to her. You can't know
what's going on. That's also not healthy. So it's a balance,
you know, of here's my boundaries, right, and also here's
(36:14):
the part of that. You can join in my life
and feel comfortable and feel safe and whatever. And like
Jim always says, you know where your bed is, regardless
of your sexuality. Connections with people can be intimidating and
you have to I feel like the most important thing
is to be secure in your relationship with a lot
(36:35):
of people, aren't they aren't. You shouldn't sell yourself short
because here's the thing. If I died tomorrow, right, and
I lived all my days up until now doing what
makes you happy, I never lived for me. I might
as well have just given you my life the moment
(36:57):
that we met. Now, am I gonna go and outright
do something that makes you unhappy? Well, no, that's called compromise.
But there are non negotiables and all healthy relationships and
they need to exist because that's how you draw the
line of the stand around yourself and say here is
(37:17):
where I am. And once you pass this line, you're
encroaching on my space. So to have a secure relationship,
you have to be secure yourself. You have to be
honest with yourself about who you are and whatever that means.
You just have to remember that you are the only
(37:38):
person that lives with yourself a percent of the time,
and so you have to be true to whoever that is.
Whoever that is, don't lie to yourself. I love knowing you.
I love having you be a part of our life.
I wouldn't change it for anything. I really wouldn't. And
I know in my heart that what you guys have
(37:58):
as a beautiful relationship built on years of knowing each
other from a young age, which I think is a
beautiful thing. When you spend four minive years together, right,
that's a different bond to bond that you just it's
special and what you and I have is special and
you don't have to compete. No, there is enough room
(38:19):
for infinite special in this world exactly. We can share
the special and you know what, I feel like we've
gotten closer. Well, it's a learning it's a learning experience
for all three of us, because neither of us have
been in this situation before. I love the three of
us hanging out. It's not it's it goes way beyond
(38:43):
like the physical plane. For me. I love the both
of you so much, and I'm glad that we get
to share in music and in life together. I think
that we have a banging time work. You just can't.
I couldn't. I couldn't help myself. But seriously, I think
that we all naturally enjoy each other's company. And even
(39:06):
if we didn't, even if we didn't all happen to
get along and have that affinity between us, I would
like to think that Emily would still respect our friendship.
When you and Emily met I, you and I had
already broken up before. Yeah, so how was it for
like those two worlds to collide? I will so when
(39:28):
I when I saw I think I found out on Snapchat,
Oh my god, Jail daily Mail, and I saw it
and I had a sound. I was like, oh, look
there's there's Geminem. I was like. I was like, I
was like what And then you guys just look so
happy and just so adorable, And I was like, God,
this makes so much sense, It so much sense. I was.
(39:50):
I've always always been really really happy for you guys. No, dude,
I mean we are growing and learning people I know,
and I've gotten to grow and learn with you guys.
You know, you guys are filing the papers to adopt
me by but yeah, I know it's your your guys,
(40:16):
relationship is very, very inspirational, very truly. Thank you. Alright, guys,
final thoughts, Let's give the people what they want. Let's
take it away, all right. What lesbians be whacked? Straight
up will be wacked. Everybody be wet. Where your ads.
(40:39):
I'm just waiting for my moment. My name and step
and I'm here to say that my name is Gemen.
That's my name. What inspiration? Well, thank you guys for
having me on, especially as your first guest. This is
a huge, huge honor. Um, So thank you for this
amazing conversation, for your honesty and for your time, and
(41:04):
for your friendship both of you. I love you both.
I like you both. Put on a postcard. I love
you all. And so you out there who's listening, thank
you for being here on this journey with us at
in our Own World podcast and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at in our Own World Pod, where
we're gonna be sharing exclusive content and behind the scenes.
This podcast is brought to you by Moonflower Productions in
(41:27):
partnership with I Hearts Michael Duda podcast Network. For more podcasts,
visit the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Hosts And Creators
Gemeny Hernandez
Emily Estefan
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