October 12, 2022 • 58 mins
When she was a kid, Sheila E. wanted to be an astronaut. But instead, she became the "Queen of Percussion". Go figure. The least we could do was invite her to join our crew. On this special flight to the Drum Moon, Queen Sheila takes us through her legendary decades-long career, her iconic David Letterman stiletto drum solo, her gutsy comeback on the very first night of Prince's "Purple Rain" tour, the disrespect in music monetization, and what it takes to keep your passion alive.
Featuring: Sheila E.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
He only got a couch on the conchack. I gave
me the same. Let's go to a mission one reading
ready for rendering it a theme. I truly I never
(00:37):
imagine that this day would come, and I definitely never
imagine it would come at midnight in the middle of
a hurricane. Yes, yes, it's amazing. Here we are with
I don't even know how to say this. Aunto Sheila.
That's it. Oh wow, Sheila, E, Emily and Jemmy, jem
(01:02):
I wish your name was Jemmy g and then it
would have worked perfect. It worked to work, to work.
We're with Sheila Bay. Wow. Welcome, Thank you, Queen E.
Thank you ladies for having me. How are you? I
am fantastic, I'm so happy to be here. Gosh, this
(01:24):
is exciting. Congratulations, thank you. Are you adjusting to the
anti gravity? Yeah, I'm a little dizzy right now. We
got something for that, some nauseous Oh, here's some nauseous water.
Oh this I heard this works. Well, we'll take all
(01:45):
your worries away. So for those of you out there
who have been sleeping for the last I don't know
million trillion days, Queen Sheila E. Is not only a
incredible human being Number one, which is what I love
about you first, because you are here at midnight in
(02:08):
the middle of a storm, which speaks volumes about you
and who you are as a human being. Number two,
which we're going to get into. One of the most
recognized female instrumentalists and musicians, which to me means so
much and is so important to not be taken as
(02:30):
a joke, but to be included as one of the best,
and to have you here, to have learned from you,
studied you, sat there and watched your videos. Not because
you're a woman, for your technique, for your rhythm, for
the things that you contribute to the music industry. You
have been that inspiration for me and I have learned
(02:52):
from you in a lot of ways. So to have
you here is truly incredible, and I want to teach
our listeners and people out there more about who you
are as a person and why you play like you play,
because I feel like the best musicians have the most
beautiful souls. Oh that's beautiful. Thank you. I don't know
what to say after that, like, no, no, thank you.
(03:17):
I really do appreciate listen. I do what I do
because I love what I get to do and I
I really truly believe that it being a gift that
God has given me the gift. Um, I have somewhat
of a responsibility, and UM, I don't do it like
you know I do mentor some people. UM, But I
(03:38):
didn't realize the impact that I had, I would have had,
or have had with the people growing up listening to
me and my dad and my uncle's and my family,
like I hadn't. We just didn't even think we're just
doing it because I just want to play. Can we
just play? Everything else is gravy, Like let's just play music,
you know. And um, I've just been inspired by so
(04:00):
many people and your parents and you know all the
people that we grew up listening to UM for so
many years. So I'm honored to be here. You know,
I'll do anything for you know, you know being in
space here, I would do this again totally, Like I
love it well at talking about space? How about this?
(04:20):
So when they told me I was going to wear
the jumpsuit, I'm like, where are we going? We're going
to space. When I was five years old, I only
there were only two things I wanted to be. One
was the first girl astronaut on the moon. Not joking
this that, this is why this is so crazy. I
always wanted to be the first girl on the moon.
(04:41):
I mean that was a dream come true. And the
second one was to win a gold medal in the Olympics.
So I was sport. I ran track. I was a
sprint running I ran track. I broke records running in
elementary and junior high school training to being the Olympics fast.
And I many trophies. I can't find them all anymore,
(05:02):
but many trophies for playing soccer in a women's league
undefeated for five years? Are you kidding me? Position forward?
She got the dumbsticks in her shoes wat y. Yeah,
So this is like amazing. I mean just to be
here and and just to talk, I mean yeah, sharing
(05:23):
stories and you know, just to be able to tell stories.
Some people just don't know things. And a lot of
times we go, we play these shows, were not able
to have conversations with people, and these are the times
that we can, even in the midst of a hurricane. Yeah.
So speaking of sports, because funnily enough, I grew up
playing sports my entire life, and there was a moment
(05:46):
where I had to decide am I going to be
an athlete or am I going to be a musician,
And for me, it was a big turning point in
my life. Did you have a moment like that where
you had to kind of make a decision. No, Um,
I always wanted to win that gold medal. So for me,
I was trained to be in the Olympics. The it
didn't matter. I loved music. I played with a couple
(06:08):
of local bands. You know, I played percussion a little bit,
but I wasn't even thinking. I was just watching pops
play all the time and jamming with them, and you know,
they had jam sessions in the house. The bands were
rehearsing in the living room like it was no big deal.
I was like, yeah, whatever. And then when I was fifteen,
my dad played a show and he was playing two boys.
(06:28):
They had an eighteen piece band called Azteca and they
were signed uh to Clive davis Um and they were
turning with Earth Winning Fire, Stevie Wonder and Temptations. So
this one show that they were doing, he didn't have
his other Koona player, Victor Penthoha, who passed away, But anyway,
he was amazing and I knew the songs. I was like, Daddy,
just let me play, and he's like, no, you're fifteen,
(06:50):
you don't know anything. I know the songs. So I
went to Moms. I said, Moms, Daddy won't let me play.
So Miles went to Yeah, Miles the bars, and she
went and said, you know, let Cela play. She knows
the music. So I got to play that show that night.
Like I loved competing, everything about winning. I'm gonna be
the best. It's like I worked every day like I'm strong,
(07:15):
I can do this whatever. And then I played this
one show with Pops and it was just an out
of body experience. I just really felt like I left
my body and I was looking down watching me play
with Pops with the band, and I'm like, I think
I left my body, went to heaven and came back,
and I was when I opened my eyes, I was
(07:36):
taking a solo and I started shaking and I was crying.
I'm like, what what just happened? And Pops is looking
at me like what and I was like, oh my god.
And then all of a sudden, when I open my eyes,
I could hear the roar of the crowd, like screaming,
and then I hear the music like I felt like
I just left and I didn't even know where I
(07:58):
was when I opened my eyes, and then all of
a sudden, is like what just happened? After that song
was done, I was like crying. I was my hands
were shaking. I'm like, oh my god, oh my god,
this is what I'm supposed to do. It wasn't like
I'm going to gradually get into it. That very moment
was it. And then after the show we went backstage
(08:19):
and I was like, Daddy, Daddy, this is what I
want to do. I want to be a musician. He's
like no, oh no, you know that was the turning point.
Two weeks later, I went out on tour. I dropped
everything and I went out on tour. My dad, that
was it. So your parents were supportive of you back?
Oh yeah, well we all we love competing our family. Um,
(08:44):
there's so many of us and everyone's like I'm better
than you, better whatever it was. It wasn't just sports,
it was everything. Um. But because our family, both sides
of our family are so big. When we had parties,
we were the entertainment for for the family. It was like, uh,
well let's yeah, It's was like, uh, let's get the
(09:05):
you know, they started turning on music like you know,
the Jackson Five, the Temptations, James Brown, and we would
just mimic and my brothers and I are just dancing
and you know, doing all kinds of stuff. It was like, wow,
you know this is we were used to being in
front of a crowd, so when it came time to
perform with other people or be in front of an audience,
that just felt natural for us. YEA, yeah. Can I
(09:28):
ask you a question in those moments, you know, did
you feel ever any pressure or nerves or anything or
you were like ready to just like join the music,
joined the party. Well, I mean play with my dad
that that I had jammed with him before, but in
that level of musicianship, to sit down, it's like I
(09:50):
felt like I had to sit taller, and I'm like, man,
I'm playing with like the best of the best, so
I gotta I mean, I'm ready, I'm ready, let's go.
But I was nervous. Like the butterflies. It it's just like, um,
they're butterflies and that meant everything to me. And then
later on after that happened, I just kept I mean,
even before then, but after that even more so, I
(10:12):
would just go to see people plays like can I play?
Can I play? Can I play? Can I play? They're
like get away? No one knew me, get away, no move,
you know. So I go to the other side of
the stage, Can I play? And someone would always say yes,
and I get on that stage no matter. I was
not taking note for an answer. So if I wasn't
coming through the front door, I'd come through the side
door or the back door or the window whatever. I'm
(10:34):
gonna get on stage and play at the stage door. Yeah,
but all day like whatever I needed to do. But
I was always a little bit nervous. I was always
and I think that's that part of me. I always
talk about it is like if that ever leaves me,
that that nervousness, nervousness and the butterflies, if that leaves,
(10:56):
then I know that I don't have the passion to
do it anymore. So to this day, I'm still no
matter what, I'm always ready. I'm ready to go, but
I'm nervous. I'm like I can do this, and but
I'm excited, you know. But if that goes away, then
that means it's I should stop. But I hope that
never had. I don't think it's ever gonna happen. I
love doing what I do, so I don't I don't
think it will ever leave. You can see it on
(11:18):
your face. I get excited. Yeah, yeah, you can see
the joy everywhere. What are your like secret tips? What
do you do to prepare for performance to help quell
the nerves or do you just like nose dive into
them You're like, yeah, this is my favorite part. No,
it's I mean I think you can. I try to
make sure I'm prepared for everything that I do as
much as I can with whatever information. But it doesn't
(11:40):
matter even with that, I mean, it helps you to
have more confidence walking out prepared because you're like, I
got this. I don't even worried now. I'm just gonna
have fun, smile and just like let's go, you know
whatever it may be. Um. I think the the one
thing that's a little challenging is I think, well, at
the beginning and I if I can, i'd warm up
(12:02):
with sticks, you know, just a little bit, just warm up.
There's so many things that I'm supposed to do, and
that's the challenging part that I don't do before I
get ready to go on stage um, and then I
just nos dive in, yes, and I go full throttle.
And then at the end of the show, I'm hurting.
But and then I'm like ice and feet and in
the ice and the I'm like, I'm hurting. I'm not
(12:24):
a drummer at all or percussionist in any way, but
I Emily is obviously, And I learned like, really, when
you really play your instrument, I've seen blisters form for
like a thirty minute window. I'm like, oh my god,
you were really hitting them things. Well, that's actually not
a good thing. You should never have blisters. I mean
(12:45):
kind of yeah, you have to, like you have to
build up the callots, and that's I don't have them anymore.
But I mean it was painful. Like I used to
um early on plane, especially with George Duke, I would
have to warm up on a wall or brick wall
or something to warm up to numb my hands because
they hurt so bad, like to begin to start to
(13:07):
play a show. My hands were just killing me. And
and then sometimes so when those callouses were there, if
they got a little too big, they used to give me.
I learned this from one of the other Koona players
that they take a blade and then they would shave
off and I'd have to shave it off, and that's
not as painful as once the callous is gone, then
(13:29):
it hurts even worse because then you have to build
it up. But when it gets so big, it's painful
as well. To me and being a woman, it's like,
I don't want to be with a guy going, oh,
let me hold your hand. I imagine being a woman
with a woman, you definitely don't want your hands. But
(13:50):
I'm sorry again, no hilarious, but yeah, it's a thing,
like you know, so I'm so that was The other
thing is like the konga players because the players who
played back in the day like that, like I heard that,
I mean, this is crazy and you might have heard
this already that their urinated blood from playing so hard,
(14:12):
because yeah, they would urinate blood. And just like it's
the most painful thing. I didn't get to that point
because like I was able to switch from gonga to
Timbally's or drump, so I was not having to bang
my hands on the Yeah, the nerves, and that was
a thing. When you kind of have like that natural tallet,
sometimes you don't nurture technique. And it's exactly and especially when,
(14:37):
especially when you grew up in that environment, et cetera.
Sometimes it's like, why I have the natural talent, why
am I going to focus on technique. I had to
go back and learn technique when I went to college,
when I went to Berkeley, to be able to retrain myself,
which felt so foreign and so weird, to play in
a way that unhinged me and also didn't hurt my
(14:58):
body for me not just playing. I never learned technique
get either of self taught like Pops and never went
to school to learn how to play drums. We we
didn't or percussion. We didn't take any lessons from anyone
and just learned by watching. And Um that being said,
I used to say technique is not important, just whatever works,
(15:22):
whatever works right, And and I learned later on that
that's not true. Um yeah, because definitely the way that
I play, you know, there's certain ways to grip the stick.
Both thumbs have been in a semi little cast or thing.
I've had stuff. I had PRP done from my elbow
here because the pain was so bad, so they took blood,
(15:45):
spun it and then put it back in and I
grew new tissue, so I didn't have to have surgery.
Umard girl. Yeah yeah, but then tear my shoulder. My
back went out from playing in my heels every day,
you know, on your double pedals solo on David Letterman
(16:07):
with your heels. I think that I think that was
I don't know what you did right there to your body,
but that's probably responsible for like ten percent of whatever
is going on. No, actually that was way after my injury.
Um No, I did that because I was like, you know,
you're gonna be on David Letterman, I'm gonna look like
I love looking, and I'm gonna take one for the team,
(16:27):
and I'm wearing those heels. And these heels didn't They
weren't the ones like they would move, you know, like
they were like yeah, but they were like would And
so if you're playing like this, it's like, what is this?
Did you practice of them before? You just know? You
can't know because they were because they were trying to
(16:51):
like get camera angles and filming, and I was just like, no,
I'm just gonna have to take one for the team.
I'm just gonna wear these and playing them. It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous. I thank you for it and getting that
insight it was incredible. And that little six eight moment,
I thank you for that too, because even you couldn't
(17:12):
never it before. I love you, thank you for your service.
But what's what's really funny is right after that happened,
uh in Services, I mean l A at the center staging.
So they had this big drum thing that's happening. They
wanted all the drummers, and all the drummers would I
(17:32):
mean everyone was there, just about everyone. And I walked
up and all the guys are like, yeah, thanks Sheila, Yeah,
thanks for the David Letterman, Yeah thanks. It's like, you
guys aren't gonna wear heels in a dress? Well you
I could have, but I'm like, no, you're not. They
were they were making fun of me, but they were laughing, going, yeah,
only you could do what you just did. I was like, hey,
(17:54):
you're welcome, get a girl. Yeah. Also, um, I'm gonna
take this opportunity that you're trapped here in space. I
just have an idea. You don't have to say yes
right now. You can think about it. Just think about
pedals for drums, right. But the shoes built in you
feel me, you know what I mean? It could be
(18:15):
a hell if you want you know, I did that already.
Know I'm thinking like more of a Doc Martin. But
maybe that's like, oh, that's like wearing a heell. No,
that's worse. They're heavy. No, you're your knees. No, that's
not going to I'll give you the lesbian version. You'll
be fine. I don't know what that is with those. No,
(18:36):
actually my dad got these for me. Okay, those are
kind of my dad's kind of a lesbian. No, I
think the double pedal with uh with something else because
a lot of times now, like I don't really have
time to put on tennis shoes, but I a lot
(18:58):
of times for years, and I've been wearing no shoes.
So I put, so I put. I have the guys
put the like the duct tape. I guess whatever is
the black tape on the petals, because it's engraved, you
know what model is. It'll scrape up your your feet.
So I let them put that on there and then
(19:19):
I'm able to just play barefoot. You probably feel the
vibrations also all the same, but it's still that's just
as bad too, and I'm just seeing you with with
the d W emblem on the bottom of your feet
and your thumbs going say, listen, I'm in my twenties
(19:39):
and I have so many injuries, but I'm not even
gonna go there. Oh there's so many yeah, and so
many things have happened on stage. I've fallen. Stuff from
the Trust came and hit my head, and a big
piece of the plastic stuck in my head. I've yeah,
a stick broke and stuck me on the side of
my head. No, there's so many things that to happen.
(20:00):
What's the worst thing that's happened. Um, When we started
the Purple Rain tour, we played Detroit. We opened in Detroit,
and two things that happened the first two days. The
first day, Um, the p A system went out, and
well the sound system not p A, it was the
sounds of twenty people in Detroit. You don't mess around.
(20:23):
And we started Detroit for a reason. We're playing. Everything
goes out and I'm like all I hear is from
the room, like the drums and then the bass ample
zone and that was it. I'm like, what the heck?
And everyone's looking like what. Then all of a sudden,
every twenty thousand people start booing boom, and I'm like, wait,
I can't, I can't and I'm taking the mic can't
(20:46):
and You're like, I'm like, oh my god, this is crazy.
So I took the guy my bass players bass. I
didn't play bass. I took the bass. I'm like, I'm
gonna play something, and I'm playing right. They're like bo
(21:06):
like no, no, no, okay. I'm like, oh my god.
So then they couldn't fix it. I'm I'm on stage
for like five minutes and then I see Prince on
the side and he's they're all telling us, waving us
to get off the stage. So we get off stage
and he's like, it's okay. Is He felt so bad
because he's like, why are they boring? What happened? She
was not good, like you know, so it happened to
(21:29):
the first show of the tour. So we get off
stage where waiting. Twenty minutes went by and and then
they fixed it. And then Prince said, you don't have
to go don't go out there. You don't have to
go out there. We're just well, we'll start the show,
I mean the rest of the show, and we'll do
we'll start again tomorrow. I said, no, that's not gonna happen.
He goes, no, No, no no, you don't. I said, no,
you don't understand. I'm going out there and I'm gonna play. No,
(21:51):
I am not going to leave on that. No, no, no,
I don't get booed that. That doesn't that doesn't like
I don't I get well, I'm too competitive for that,
yes exactly. And he looked scared. He was really like,
I don't know that. You should have said, yeah, I should.
I went out there and I just kicked butt. And
(22:12):
because of that, it was like the audience like it
was piercing, screaming, like I had to get them back.
I didn't want to leave them like that. Wow. So
do I get to ask you something? Okay? Where'd you
two meet? Oh? It got quiet. It was Emily was
(22:38):
battling an alligator and I came out of the woods
with my machete and I said, don't weary damns in distress.
I'm here to rescue you, mama. And I said, you
don't know what you're going for at what? I think
(23:00):
have a button for that. Okay, So one more question? Yeah, okay,
all right, So out of all the instruments, like musically,
like your parents being in the business. Um, is there
one particular thing that you like more than anything else
as far as being a musician or an artist. You
(23:22):
love playing piano or guitar or percussion. Is there a one?
Or songwriting or singing or is it all? Oh? Because
what was your first passion? All right, this is gonna
be a really wild answer. We're gonna keep it short.
In my relationships with human beings, like romantic relationships, I'm
(23:43):
extremely monogamous. I just like monogamy. I don't have anything
against polyamory. I think it's beautiful. I get it, like
you know, we always talk about it, et cetera. In
my musical life, I am so polyamorous. I feel like
so many people have described. You can be playing drums
(24:05):
or playing something and you get so frustrated, and there's
moments where you're in love and it's intense and you
can play for ten hours and then there's one more.
Two're like, I don't want to touch a stick if
it kills me in those moments. How awesome that I
can go cheat on the drums with piano and vocals
and production and they don't talk back. You know what
(24:26):
I mean? So like I am such a polyamorous musician,
you know, like I just I look, I don't consider
myself an expert in any field because I went to
a school where I saw people dedicate themselves wholeheartedly to
their craft, and I thought that that's what I wanted
to do, and I didn't want to I wasn't infatuated
(24:46):
in that respect. I thought I wanted to be a
touring player because I love to play, but I love
to play everything. If you go to my concert, I
literally have my drums, my voice, some weird effect on
my voice, a pedal um for and whatever I add
stuff every show. You know what I mean? You're being
creative because I'm like, why not? Yeah, there are no rules.
(25:07):
I'm so happy. I'm so happy to be here. Thank
you for everybody. Good Peanut Gallery. If you could go back,
(25:31):
Sheila and do one of your two childhood dreams, either
be on the Mood, female astronut on in the Mood
or Peter Olympic gold medalist. Which one would you choose? Olympics? Well,
if you would have asked me, let me see, I'm
gonna be six in December. Yes, it's a big awesome.
(25:54):
It's a big number. Um. But if you would ask
me right before fifty or at fifty, I would have
said the moon maybe. But because I did, like when
they first started talking about signing up to be, you know,
one of the few that can go into space, and
I was, I signed up a long time ago, a
(26:17):
long time ago. But now I'm older. No, I'm not
going up. Forget it, forget about it? Are you kidding me?
I got older, so I believe even though I feel
i'm older, I'm wiser. I feel that I could still
(26:38):
win the Olympics. And then there you go. So I
think that if I went out there, like you know,
they have different age brackets now, but I was about
to say, they like, we should stop stigmatizing the age
and athletes. I feel like if we, if we continued,
you know the same way that we're expanding our minds
in so many ways, Like why aren't we watching seventy
(27:01):
year olds play pickleball? Well they know, but they are.
They're like year old guy that ran the track and
I don't know what Olympic or something whatever it is,
but yeah, he's like he was like a hundred years
old just recently that's going to be. Yeah, I could
never you never know, you know, I mean, listen, mind
(27:24):
over matter and whatever your heart, that passion for what
you want to do. A problem with with the stigma
of aging. Everybody, now get botox, get this, get that
that really don't believe in age. I was thirteen hanging
out with forty five year olds, feeling like we were
more on the same page. You were grown young anyway.
(27:44):
I don't think you're you're old soul for real, because
you were around so many people and because of the
industry and seeing you like I remember seeing you perform
one time with your mom and you were really young
and you're hanging out backstage and you knew everyone. Everyone
knew you. You've been around older people most of your life. Yeah.
So yeah, well yeah, And you know what's funny in
(28:07):
the ways, and I talked about this with Gema all
the time, in the ways in that respect that I
was mature. On the opposite side, I suffer in real
life immaturity. Absolutely understand what I mean, Absolutely I understand that.
But that's okay. Hoving awareness and understanding is a gift.
(28:27):
But at the same time that immaturity is what's happening
right now. We're in space on a freaking show that
you're having your childhood dream right now and we're in
space and what are we doing. We're sitting here having
a blast. Oh my god, we're having at But you
(28:48):
need a drum shot. No no, no, no, no, no, no,
no wow. You know what, you know what? You are
gonna redo these suns you need? No, this is this
is sad. This is sad right now, roasted by you.
(29:17):
At least need some percussion and a ram shop. But
I agree, here's the thing. Go ahead, your best excuse
it's not excuse. Actually, if you listen to our show,
we have a lot of boot It's just that we
do it with our mouth and I do it in post.
But you know what what the Queen says has done
in the next episode, I'm going to start it. I
(29:39):
don't care who the guest is. The guest I'm gonna
be like, hi, um before we do anything, I just
want to say, I'm gonna I'm gonna display the new
buttons that we have. We're even though we're in space
with wen't we can't bring percussion to this in space.
There's I see the I see it. You want to
(30:03):
know something that I bet you wouldn't guess what. That's
a nice shaking it. Oh. I was about to say,
jem is in my band. I am shout out my
band and so sorry to anybody who tries to book
my band because there are a million people that was like,
I'm like, can you do an acoustic setment? Like do
you have space for eleven? So? How big is your band?
(30:24):
Let's see right, They're like, Hi, can you do this?
I'm like no, And again, you know what, in that respect,
I will happily call myself spoiled. I know it's that's
not being spoiled. That is not being spoiled because when
you're creating and something that you really create is passionate
and what you've brought this gift and your ideas and
(30:49):
what you want to hear in yourself. This is all like,
this's not easy to do, so when you hear it,
you want it to sound like you wanted to sound.
There's nothing wrong with that. So people want us to
go out and have two people and play the tracks.
It's not fun if that's not musical to me, So
I agree with live band is just that's what it
(31:10):
should be there's nothing wrong with that. My problem is
that I will go out and I will enjoy DJ
set and I like trying to concert. I will enjoy it.
My problem is that what I don't enjoy is musical
music not being performed that way. You know, Like, if
you're an artist that I'm listening to your music and
(31:32):
you have a killer guitar solo and a deep pocket
and a grooving baseline, I don't want to hear you
press a button. I want to see the people freaking
play it. I'm sorry, I'm with you, and it's really
And this is the part where I um acknowledge my
privilege because you're out there, you have a band. Doesn't
matter how good you are, it is difficult to move it,
(31:57):
to have the money to move it, to have the
money to fund it, to make it happen, to fill
the room. That's why it's like, damn man, at least
back in the day from what I hear, because I
was in half in my mom's over and half of
my dad's ball sack. But oh man, too much, so
(32:28):
it happens. Sorry, you guys signed up for this. That's awesome,
it's perfect. But um, but anyway, yeah, so I I
do have a you know, a problem with that because
Jem in the band, you know, like and also everybody
in the band, I'm like, you do one thing, Hell no,
you're gonna do two things? Can do three things. So yeah,
(32:50):
we have eleven people on stage and they sound like
twenty because forget it, double up, let's be musical, let's
figure it out, let's sing. Let's know what. If you can't,
that's fine, like tell me that you can't. But if
you're open to it and working with it, that's what
I love. Like, like you said, music is not about competition.
It's about collaboration, always support, you know, like the silence
(33:16):
Jesus Christ. The best solos in the world have, you know,
three quarter notes of silence and one that's not one note.
But I you know, like Jesus. So, I don't know
what the end of that whole thing was. I'm looking
at the freaking meat roads funny I was going, And
(33:41):
then what did I ask the question? The question we
were talking about the band, So you know what, if
you're trying to hire me out there, if you you're
not gonna know, I'm kidding, I'm willing to work with you.
But I'm bringing my crew. Yeah, we've slept out couch before. Wait,
I'm back Hello. That's what happens when you're in space.
(34:06):
Jam sings plays violin, plays checking it, dances and looks
beautiful on the stage. Thank you nine. At the same time,
that's nice violin. I used to play violin my first tattoo.
Used to play violin. No way played for five years.
I was first violin, but because my ear was really
(34:29):
fast and learning, if you played something for me, I
would just immediately play it. So with the music being
in front of me, and I was just like staring
in space and I wouldn't even look at the music
and I would just play. It was just fast. And
then one day my teacher in the eighth grade said,
can you play from bar like eight two or whatever?
(34:51):
I like, yeah, can you play it? First? Make sure
I'm in the and then she's like come here. And
then I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm in trouble. I walk
up and she says, well, do you know how to
read music? I said no. She said, well, how is
that possible, because your first violinist, you've been playing like
I was getting a scholarship, And I said, I don't
(35:12):
know it. Just I just stare at it and and close
my eyes and just play whatever you play. Do you
think that you have to do you think that reading
music is helpful to be a musician or absolutely I
wish I would have learned you can't read music. No,
it's not too late. And that's what I was just
gonna say. I mean, I can site read a little bit,
(35:34):
like if I hear it so and I look at
it and I start listening to it, and I I'm like, okay,
I think I get okay. But if I looked at
it and I didn't hear it, I couldn't tell you
what it says. You know what's really funny that's incredible
site reading is my parents neither of them read music.
And but you went to Berkeley, so I'm sure you do.
(35:54):
Um I read music before I went to Berkeley. And
Jen can attest to that because she's classically trained. So
she is like, you put a paper in front of her.
She's like, that doesn't matter. The key thing. I could
put a drum not anymore, but maybe at one point,
like I could put a drum chart in front of
(36:15):
you and you would be able to read the rhythm
like nothing and I started to become entranced with it
because it's hypnotic. It's it's kind of like, I don't know,
like a puzzle. Like it makes a lot of sense,
you know what I mean, It really does. Yeah, so
I got in transfer it in that way and it
(36:36):
only helps. But being on both sides, like I didn't
know how to read music until way later, you know,
or I read piano music, but also like practiced not
like naturally because it really is a language. You don't
want to memorize the music. You want to be able
to understand it. That's the difference. But that's what's even
(36:58):
challenging for some people that only read. When you take
the paper away, there's no heart because they don't know
how to do that. And that's that's that you have
to have both. That balance is so important and vice versa.
I mean, there's some people who can play with your
heart you can't read and you know, but then you know,
you get into the studio. Same thing with live and recording.
(37:18):
There's two different things, and there's so much that is
so different about each, you know, the discipline. That's what
I was going to say that I'm still young, gonna
have a lot to learn, and like Coltrane said, the
moment you stop learning, you're done. You're done. You're never
going to know everything. So that's why I love this journey. However,
if there's anything I've learned is that I don't I
(37:41):
think that you could be the best site reader in
the world, but if you don't have the heart, forget it.
I think that you've got to lead with the heart
and the feeling site reading helps. But for me, I've
only seen that leading with the other side and upplementing
with knowledge is what does it? You have to lead
(38:03):
with heart. Art and music is a language of vulnerability.
It's a language of imperfection, and a lot of the
rules that come with theory and reading are gauged upon
old perfectionist theories. So enter jazz, enter enter or net Coleman.
(38:26):
But yeah, yeah, said f you music theory. We create
our own rules. Over here, your beautiful genre was made
and then came all the other ones. Thank you jazz.
I mean, think about the people that were stretching skins
of the animals that they killed on god knows what bones, rocks,
(38:50):
banging it creating a hypnotic rhythm. You know what, what
kind of language. Is that you think they were writing
sixteen notes on their cave walls. Hell to no, no.
But it was a language that only they understood and
it was amazing or because it was all hard, it
was all it was there speaking a different language from here.
(39:11):
This is what this means, you know. And before write
music theory, before writing music like that, it was just
passed on through family, through generation teaching the songs, which
is all hard also and passed on like the plane
the Puerto Rican plaina like there was a train netwent
you know, through Puerto Rico, and there were people on
(39:31):
the train that had these drums and the plane they
would like plague kind of you know whatever, and tell
the news, I mean, as they were playing drums. So
you'll be on the on the freaking train and be like,
you know whatever, and they're like said, well, you know whatever.
I mean, I'm sure that was not the news whatever.
(39:54):
And those kind of stories like they never come from math,
come from heart, they come from necessity. They come from
boredom of humanity and the monotony of everyday in life.
But anyway, yeah, but that's a lot of knowledge right
there that maybe some people not have have not heard
you know, it's it's the thing. I just say that
(40:16):
anyone who's watching this that you know, you find your passion. Uh,
you'll never go wrong when you find your passion what
you know, what you want to do. It's it's a
different thing. I know some people can't do that because
you have to work and you have to make money,
you have to take care of your family, and there's
(40:37):
a lot going on. But somewhere even within that, in
that struggle or that's something that you have to do
that you don't want, find something on the side that
really makes you happy and passionate about something. Because that
balance is so important. It is really important, especially now
because things are so crazy, and that applies to music.
You know, learn how to read music. I think you should.
(40:59):
I think people should read Um, it's really important. But
also that balance of playing from your heart as well.
Take the paper away and and find that expression. What
are you gonna say without looking at that paper? That's
going to allow you to grow as an artist, you know,
And I think that's important too. Yeah, totally listen to
(41:20):
Queen E from the Cosmos. I'm gonna put reverb on
this and I will sound much more glorious. Than they
do right now, Glorious, I do want to ask you
(41:47):
a couple more questions, if that's okay sure, one of
which is your your memoir you wrote, yes, incredible book.
Or you're very vulnerable and shared a lot and um,
I could not leave here today without touching upon a
couple of things that to me have touched my life. Like,
(42:10):
for example, the first concert I ever remember was Prince.
When the emblem was in the middle of the arena,
it was like floating. I remember my mom whispered in
my own she goes, you see that road case, like
Princess in that road case and he's gonna like they're
taking him to the stage now, like it's gonna happen whatever.
(42:32):
And I was like what I was like, locked on
this road case, I'm like, is he in here? Is
he in there? Whatever? And then the emblem lights up
and but I'm like and that was like the first
moment I'm like, oh, this is what I want to do.
I want to be a musician. I want to play.
I want to make people feel how I am feeling
(42:54):
right now. But anyway, so you had this incredible relationship
with Prince and everything, like if you could tell me,
what have you learned from that musical experience? Because if
anybody's a musician out there, forget about like fame and
that ship. For me, it's about chops and like not
only you, but he is someone that I looked up
(43:16):
to so much. So if you could say, like what
you've learned and like what you could impart from all
that incredible love and music and everything you guys did together. Um,
I think one thing that was pretty cool, um is
that when I met him, I was already playing with
George Duke and he was doing his recording his record
(43:38):
in San Francisco. He came to the Bay Area to
record his record. But later on, like I was used
to recording in the studio with like George Duke and
other people, and and when I'd fly to l A
from Oakland. Um, there was a certain way, or I guess,
like when you walked in the door with you know,
(44:00):
to be expected to walk into a studio and getting
sounds and you know, making sure everything's clean about all
of this other stuff right, and sometimes taking two hours
to get a drum sound, and you're going, if you
just mike the drums and the mike write it should
just sound like drums? Why is it taking two hours? That?
And that's what I learned from Prince because when we
(44:21):
started recording in the studio. It's so funny because a
little bit like me, like I didn't spend that much
time setting up drums, not unless it depends on who
the engineer was, And so we would set up I
would sometimes, I mean most of the time the drums
were set up. But if I'm playing drums, I'm getting
(44:42):
my stick bag and he's ready to go, and it's
like one we didn't even get a sound like I'm
still putting on the symbol, like it doesn't even matter,
like the drum sound like the drums, like, let's just play.
He never spent time. He never spent time like getting
sound like let's just keep no, let's just play the music.
So if there were if my cow bill was like
(45:03):
ringing a lot, or you heard like his bass had
this funky little buzzing on it or whatever, and it
just sounded like that's the sound of it. It's all
muddy and stinky and funky. It's just gonna sound like that.
He didn't clean it up to take all the soul
out of something. Oh, he never did them. Things were dust,
(45:24):
they had food and all kind of those strings like forever,
all all of that, but that's what it's all dead, exactly,
all dead strings, just and so the same thing. He
wouldn't like. There was one time I walked in, uh
bless his heart, but John blackwell he's past now, but
he was playing and I walked in the studio and
(45:47):
Prince was in the control room and John is playing,
and I'm like, I walked in. I was like, what
is he playing? And he's like, he said what I said?
And I looked at said those drums and he said
what I said, they sound horrible. What do you literally?
And I walked out there and he laughed, he goes,
(46:08):
we'll go fix him. I said, oh my god, I
walked out there. John. I guess because they were trying
to get a sound, he didn't tune them greater, I
don't know. And the Prince was like, they don't sound good.
So he just kept putting like paper towels and then
duct tape and then taping. There was so much patting
on the drum and the drumheads themselfs it sounds like
(46:29):
nothing like it would sounded hard. I said. The drum
is gone. You're past any kind of drum sound. So
I took it all off. I took everything off, and
I retuned the drums. They sounded amazing, But I mean, hey,
you know the story of my dad. He walks into
the studio, he goes, somebody's playing Team Balets. He goes,
(46:51):
he goes, oh, yeah, what the hell is that? They
sound like? Think cons and turns around, he goes, they
are Oh my god. It's really incredible, though, Sheila, Because
and I wonder when you were starting out and you
(47:12):
were in the industry, probably as the only am I wrong,
You guys can correct me, historically the only female percussionist
in your field doing what you were doing. I don't
know that I was because percussion, like, I didn't see
a lot of women, or I didn't hear a lot
of women playing, except growing up in the Bay Area
in Oakland. Everyone Berkeley, Oakland, we all went to the
(47:36):
parks and then in front of Berkeley and we just jammed.
So there were men and women playing. How we go ahead,
Karen Carpenter. But nobody knew that she was a drummer. Well,
they knew she was a drummer, they didn't she They
didn't know she played somewhat percussion, but she was. She
also played vibes and marimba percussion as well. She was
but yeah, but she her drum playing was incredible, Like
(48:00):
she was more amazing than people can. They don't even
understand how amazing she was. But also there was another
young lady named Bobby Hall that was a becausion player
that was playing with Bob Dylan at the time, Black
African woman who was amazing. Um. And and then there
was something someone else I just saw recently, this lady.
(48:21):
There are a bunch of drummers, but they just weren't known.
But no one knew. You know, did you know? Did
you feel? I guess not. You kind of maybe answered
my question because if your upbringing, because I've always wondered,
I'm like, does she little know what she is for
all of us? When you were in that space, was
it clear to you that you're, like, man, I gotta
fight extra hard because I'm a woman in this male
(48:41):
dominated space or was it just easy for you? No,
it's not easy now, It's never been easy. My fight
has never stopped. I've been fighting since I started, and
the fight continues. It's just what it is. But to
be honest, yeah, it's it's just what it is. I mean,
it's yeah, I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, any advice for
(49:01):
us who are going to continue to fight alongside you
in this in these kinds of environments, because it's not
just in music, Yeah it is not. No, I think
you know, the one thing that you can do is
to you know, again, finding that passion. So if this
is what you want to do, there will be a
lot of nose. But to me, no doesn't mean I'm
(49:22):
not capable. No doesn't mean I'm not able. No means opportunities,
So I'm gonna find a way. No means opportunity, doesn't
mean I am not able to do what I want
to do because my passion is way much stronger than
anything you could ever tell me or do, So you know,
I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt anymore. But I mean,
but that does happen. But I mean, because we're humans,
(49:44):
so it does. It does hurt, you know, But I
think the best thing you can do finding that passion.
When you're that passionate, it hurts harder, it hurts worse,
it hurts often. But um, I think you know, staying
true yourself and who you are and who you want
to be um and and allowing people to see that
(50:08):
the love that you have for what you do. You know,
you don't take me for granted, because then at this
point in my life, don't mess with me, because you
never know what's gonna happen. Question follow up question, Was
there ever a point that you almost quit? Yeah, a
couple of times. And I'm not a quitter. You don't
(50:32):
seem like a quitter, not a quitter at all, not
a quitter. But a couple of times I think you know,
there's a the industry is so hard, and especially even
for women and women of color, it's so hard, and
it's so challenging and it's difficult. And then you kind
of go like, well, we've spent all this money doing
(50:53):
our project. We've paid everyone, and you've spent a quarter
of a million dollars. You spent a half a million
dollars to do this wonderful project, and even though it's
going to be bounced down to a stupid MP three,
which is dumb, and then you're gonna go right, and
then you're gonna after we paid for this amazing studio
(51:13):
with the sound and the mics that are ten thousand dollars,
but we're gonna hear it back on an MP three
um um. Now we have the wave files, yes, but
then you're gonna go streaming, and then we get a
half of a half and a half of a cent
that doesn't even exist because then you're gonna stream it
for like a thousand times for me to make like
ten dollars. I love this job. It's like that's when
(51:38):
I just keep going, what are we doing? So basically
what we're doing is you're the people that are streaming
and listening to the songs, and the way we're supporting you.
I said, no, what you just did was you came
over and you took the keys in my car, and
you took my car and never came back. So I'm
not getting anything from you streaming me. It doesn't mean
no disrespect to the streaming, but it's a disrespect it is.
(52:01):
It is a disrespect. I'd like to take this moment
to inform our listeners. If you use a streaming service
out there, the best one in terms of how much
they pay their artists is Title but between Apple Music
and Spotify, and I'm not paid to say this. I'd
like to say that Apple Music pays three times more
(52:21):
per play than Spotify does. So if you love your
musicians and you want to support them, just remember that
it takes them three times as long to make even
a thousand dollars on one song as it does on
Apple Music. So choose wisely, please, you know what else
is my problem? Yes, Jim, thank you so much. Please
do that. If you're always shading my friends, I'm like,
(52:42):
take your poison. However, do you think Joni Mitchell was
going to be doing TikTok's? Like? Why is that a
part of our job? I don't understand. Like, I'm here
to go in the studio, put my head down right,
play record, go out on tour, put my body on
the line. Now you want me to my entire life,
I'm not doing it, and I'm not doing it. That's
(53:06):
that's a whole another job. Because now we've made it
a point where YouTube is are new. I'm not this
and all of this, it's all it's what it is now,
and now there are no rules. Now they're making the rules,
and we have to we get nothing like they're getting.
They're making a kazillion dollars off of um. You know,
people coming for advertisement and then they pay you a
(53:28):
little something just to keep you interested. It's just can
you just pay me for the work that I just did?
And everyone else that put their lives on the line
basically like saying, you know, they stopped, they had to
get babysitters, they have kids, they have families they need
to feed. How do I feed my family? I'm not again,
I'm It just doesn't make any sense. So when you
(53:49):
I'm answering your question like that's when I want to quit.
When I'm going what are we doing? Why am I
doing this? What am I getting out? It's not that
it's just the money, it's the respect. You are not
respecting who I am as an artist. You're not respecting
what I do. You're not respecting and understanding that this
gift is a gift. But it takes a blessed wet
(54:11):
and tears and the things that we right, we get
personal with what we talked about sometimes what that takes
and what we went through. But you're gonna stream and go,
you know, I don't want to pay you for what
you just went through last year. Really, it's no sense
of painion it doesn't make any it doesn't make any sense.
It's probably I don't even know what time it is,
probably like four thirty in the morning, but coming right
(54:35):
at least stopped you know what, we stopped it with
with immaculate vibes. I will say this though, Um, in
learning about your book, I learned something incredible, which is
that your Nicole Richie's on it. Well, I haven't seen
it in a long time, but yes, I mean so yeah, no,
so my brother Peter Michael, Um, I mean he and
(54:59):
his a long time ago girlfriend they had Nikki, and so, yeah,
Nikki is my niece and crazy she I mean to me,
she actually just like my mom. That's their their twins.
Oh my god. It must be so interesting to see
like the nature versus nurture argument in a situation like that,
to see like what you truly just inherit exactly. Yeah,
(55:22):
we all wish that we were closer. We haven't seen it.
We haven't seen her in a while. So and when
we do, I mean, it was like COVID two years ago. Yeah,
it's just it's been a minute. But I mean we
we're very family oriented. We just love being around family.
I feel the same way. Family is number one in
my life and family comes in a million different ways.
(55:43):
Oh yeah, Queen Sheila, Yes, ma'am. It has been an
immaculate honor, joy and jubilance to have you on the spaceship.
Yeah you um to feel your energy, to have you
share so beautifully, to just converse with you over your
GUC It's been a gift, a real gift. Thank you
(56:08):
so much for having first of all, to be able
to see you. I haven't seen you in a while,
but to just sit here and hang out and uh,
in the middle of a hurricane in Miami in two
thousand twenty two. Yeah, and we're in space and what
can I say? You can put some reverb on this?
Are you and you get back to the place and
you'll say, wow, Queen she love us here we're going,
(56:31):
Oh my god. And when you're in space and can
you believe watch this happens is freaking I'm gonna put
that on a loop when I go to bed at night. Wow,
this is freaking amazing. All right, Well, I want to
hear Jem's final thoughts. And while you say that, oh no,
(56:53):
go please take it away. Oh wait, you take it away.
I'm gonna bring this tube over here, and when we
play the song, we're gonna percuss out. Wow, that's okay, Sure,
all right, go ahead, tube away. Thank you for flying
with us today on in our own world. Thank you
(57:17):
for flying with us today, Jim, em and Sheila A
just kidding. It's e but that rhyme, so you're gonna
have to deal with it in your time. Thank you
for trying with us. That's all. We got it this time, guys.
(57:38):
These bottles are fun. All right, guys, we percussed, We
did it. Thank you for flying with us today. Guys,
it has been a journey. Thank you so much, Auntie
Sheila if I can call you that, absolutely darling. It
has been such a pleasure for me. Also, you know,
really excited for m two because I know how much
(57:59):
this means to so just thank you so much. I
hurt you back. See you for part two. See we're
dragging her in. Thank you so much. We're gonna go
to Mars. Oh goodbye, everybody, love you, goodbye. Yeah. This
(58:22):
is a Moonflower production in partnership with I Hearts Michael
podcast Network. For more podcasts, visit the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
He only got a couch on the conchack. I gave
me the same. Let's go to a mission one reading
ready for rendering it a theme. I truly I never
(00:37):
imagine that this day would come, and I definitely never
imagine it would come at midnight in the middle of
a hurricane. Yes, yes, it's amazing. Here we are with
I don't even know how to say this. Aunto Sheila.
That's it. Oh wow, Sheila, E, Emily and Jemmy, jem
(01:02):
I wish your name was Jemmy g and then it
would have worked perfect. It worked to work, to work.
We're with Sheila Bay. Wow. Welcome, Thank you, Queen E.
Thank you ladies for having me. How are you? I
am fantastic, I'm so happy to be here. Gosh, this
(01:24):
is exciting. Congratulations, thank you. Are you adjusting to the
anti gravity? Yeah, I'm a little dizzy right now. We
got something for that, some nauseous Oh, here's some nauseous water.
Oh this I heard this works. Well, we'll take all
(01:45):
your worries away. So for those of you out there
who have been sleeping for the last I don't know
million trillion days, Queen Sheila E. Is not only a
incredible human being Number one, which is what I love
about you first, because you are here at midnight in
(02:08):
the middle of a storm, which speaks volumes about you
and who you are as a human being. Number two,
which we're going to get into. One of the most
recognized female instrumentalists and musicians, which to me means so
much and is so important to not be taken as
(02:30):
a joke, but to be included as one of the best,
and to have you here, to have learned from you,
studied you, sat there and watched your videos. Not because
you're a woman, for your technique, for your rhythm, for
the things that you contribute to the music industry. You
have been that inspiration for me and I have learned
(02:52):
from you in a lot of ways. So to have
you here is truly incredible, and I want to teach
our listeners and people out there more about who you
are as a person and why you play like you play,
because I feel like the best musicians have the most
beautiful souls. Oh that's beautiful. Thank you. I don't know
what to say after that, like, no, no, thank you.
(03:17):
I really do appreciate listen. I do what I do
because I love what I get to do and I
I really truly believe that it being a gift that
God has given me the gift. Um, I have somewhat
of a responsibility, and UM, I don't do it like
you know I do mentor some people. UM, But I
(03:38):
didn't realize the impact that I had, I would have had,
or have had with the people growing up listening to
me and my dad and my uncle's and my family,
like I hadn't. We just didn't even think we're just
doing it because I just want to play. Can we
just play? Everything else is gravy, Like let's just play music,
you know. And um, I've just been inspired by so
(04:00):
many people and your parents and you know all the
people that we grew up listening to UM for so
many years. So I'm honored to be here. You know,
I'll do anything for you know, you know being in
space here, I would do this again totally, Like I
love it well at talking about space? How about this?
(04:20):
So when they told me I was going to wear
the jumpsuit, I'm like, where are we going? We're going
to space. When I was five years old, I only
there were only two things I wanted to be. One
was the first girl astronaut on the moon. Not joking
this that, this is why this is so crazy. I
always wanted to be the first girl on the moon.
(04:41):
I mean that was a dream come true. And the
second one was to win a gold medal in the Olympics.
So I was sport. I ran track. I was a
sprint running I ran track. I broke records running in
elementary and junior high school training to being the Olympics fast.
And I many trophies. I can't find them all anymore,
(05:02):
but many trophies for playing soccer in a women's league
undefeated for five years? Are you kidding me? Position forward?
She got the dumbsticks in her shoes wat y. Yeah,
So this is like amazing. I mean just to be
here and and just to talk, I mean yeah, sharing
(05:23):
stories and you know, just to be able to tell stories.
Some people just don't know things. And a lot of
times we go, we play these shows, were not able
to have conversations with people, and these are the times
that we can, even in the midst of a hurricane. Yeah.
So speaking of sports, because funnily enough, I grew up
playing sports my entire life, and there was a moment
(05:46):
where I had to decide am I going to be
an athlete or am I going to be a musician,
And for me, it was a big turning point in
my life. Did you have a moment like that where
you had to kind of make a decision. No, Um,
I always wanted to win that gold medal. So for me,
I was trained to be in the Olympics. The it
didn't matter. I loved music. I played with a couple
(06:08):
of local bands. You know, I played percussion a little bit,
but I wasn't even thinking. I was just watching pops
play all the time and jamming with them, and you know,
they had jam sessions in the house. The bands were
rehearsing in the living room like it was no big deal.
I was like, yeah, whatever. And then when I was fifteen,
my dad played a show and he was playing two boys.
(06:28):
They had an eighteen piece band called Azteca and they
were signed uh to Clive davis Um and they were
turning with Earth Winning Fire, Stevie Wonder and Temptations. So
this one show that they were doing, he didn't have
his other Koona player, Victor Penthoha, who passed away, But anyway,
he was amazing and I knew the songs. I was like, Daddy,
just let me play, and he's like, no, you're fifteen,
(06:50):
you don't know anything. I know the songs. So I
went to Moms. I said, Moms, Daddy won't let me play.
So Miles went to Yeah, Miles the bars, and she
went and said, you know, let Cela play. She knows
the music. So I got to play that show that night.
Like I loved competing, everything about winning. I'm gonna be
the best. It's like I worked every day like I'm strong,
(07:15):
I can do this whatever. And then I played this
one show with Pops and it was just an out
of body experience. I just really felt like I left
my body and I was looking down watching me play
with Pops with the band, and I'm like, I think
I left my body, went to heaven and came back,
and I was when I opened my eyes, I was
(07:36):
taking a solo and I started shaking and I was crying.
I'm like, what what just happened? And Pops is looking
at me like what and I was like, oh my god.
And then all of a sudden, when I open my eyes,
I could hear the roar of the crowd, like screaming,
and then I hear the music like I felt like
I just left and I didn't even know where I
(07:58):
was when I opened my eyes, and then all of
a sudden, is like what just happened? After that song
was done, I was like crying. I was my hands
were shaking. I'm like, oh my god, oh my god,
this is what I'm supposed to do. It wasn't like
I'm going to gradually get into it. That very moment
was it. And then after the show we went backstage
(08:19):
and I was like, Daddy, Daddy, this is what I
want to do. I want to be a musician. He's
like no, oh no, you know that was the turning point.
Two weeks later, I went out on tour. I dropped
everything and I went out on tour. My dad, that
was it. So your parents were supportive of you back?
Oh yeah, well we all we love competing our family. Um,
(08:44):
there's so many of us and everyone's like I'm better
than you, better whatever it was. It wasn't just sports,
it was everything. Um. But because our family, both sides
of our family are so big. When we had parties,
we were the entertainment for for the family. It was like, uh,
well let's yeah, It's was like, uh, let's get the
(09:05):
you know, they started turning on music like you know,
the Jackson Five, the Temptations, James Brown, and we would
just mimic and my brothers and I are just dancing
and you know, doing all kinds of stuff. It was like, wow,
you know this is we were used to being in
front of a crowd, so when it came time to
perform with other people or be in front of an audience,
that just felt natural for us. YEA, yeah. Can I
(09:28):
ask you a question in those moments, you know, did
you feel ever any pressure or nerves or anything or
you were like ready to just like join the music,
joined the party. Well, I mean play with my dad
that that I had jammed with him before, but in
that level of musicianship, to sit down, it's like I
(09:50):
felt like I had to sit taller, and I'm like, man,
I'm playing with like the best of the best, so
I gotta I mean, I'm ready, I'm ready, let's go.
But I was nervous. Like the butterflies. It it's just like, um,
they're butterflies and that meant everything to me. And then
later on after that happened, I just kept I mean,
even before then, but after that even more so, I
(10:12):
would just go to see people plays like can I play?
Can I play? Can I play? Can I play? They're
like get away? No one knew me, get away, no move,
you know. So I go to the other side of
the stage, Can I play? And someone would always say yes,
and I get on that stage no matter. I was
not taking note for an answer. So if I wasn't
coming through the front door, I'd come through the side
door or the back door or the window whatever. I'm
(10:34):
gonna get on stage and play at the stage door. Yeah,
but all day like whatever I needed to do. But
I was always a little bit nervous. I was always
and I think that's that part of me. I always
talk about it is like if that ever leaves me,
that that nervousness, nervousness and the butterflies, if that leaves,
(10:56):
then I know that I don't have the passion to
do it anymore. So to this day, I'm still no
matter what, I'm always ready. I'm ready to go, but
I'm nervous. I'm like I can do this, and but
I'm excited, you know. But if that goes away, then
that means it's I should stop. But I hope that
never had. I don't think it's ever gonna happen. I
love doing what I do, so I don't I don't
think it will ever leave. You can see it on
(11:18):
your face. I get excited. Yeah, yeah, you can see
the joy everywhere. What are your like secret tips? What
do you do to prepare for performance to help quell
the nerves or do you just like nose dive into
them You're like, yeah, this is my favorite part. No,
it's I mean I think you can. I try to
make sure I'm prepared for everything that I do as
much as I can with whatever information. But it doesn't
(11:40):
matter even with that, I mean, it helps you to
have more confidence walking out prepared because you're like, I
got this. I don't even worried now. I'm just gonna
have fun, smile and just like let's go, you know
whatever it may be. Um. I think the the one
thing that's a little challenging is I think, well, at
the beginning and I if I can, i'd warm up
(12:02):
with sticks, you know, just a little bit, just warm up.
There's so many things that I'm supposed to do, and
that's the challenging part that I don't do before I
get ready to go on stage um, and then I
just nos dive in, yes, and I go full throttle.
And then at the end of the show, I'm hurting.
But and then I'm like ice and feet and in
the ice and the I'm like, I'm hurting. I'm not
(12:24):
a drummer at all or percussionist in any way, but
I Emily is obviously, And I learned like, really, when
you really play your instrument, I've seen blisters form for
like a thirty minute window. I'm like, oh my god,
you were really hitting them things. Well, that's actually not
a good thing. You should never have blisters. I mean
(12:45):
kind of yeah, you have to, like you have to
build up the callots, and that's I don't have them anymore.
But I mean it was painful. Like I used to
um early on plane, especially with George Duke, I would
have to warm up on a wall or brick wall
or something to warm up to numb my hands because
they hurt so bad, like to begin to start to
(13:07):
play a show. My hands were just killing me. And
and then sometimes so when those callouses were there, if
they got a little too big, they used to give me.
I learned this from one of the other Koona players
that they take a blade and then they would shave
off and I'd have to shave it off, and that's
not as painful as once the callous is gone, then
(13:29):
it hurts even worse because then you have to build
it up. But when it gets so big, it's painful
as well. To me and being a woman, it's like,
I don't want to be with a guy going, oh,
let me hold your hand. I imagine being a woman
with a woman, you definitely don't want your hands. But
(13:50):
I'm sorry again, no hilarious, but yeah, it's a thing,
like you know, so I'm so that was The other
thing is like the konga players because the players who
played back in the day like that, like I heard that,
I mean, this is crazy and you might have heard
this already that their urinated blood from playing so hard,
(14:12):
because yeah, they would urinate blood. And just like it's
the most painful thing. I didn't get to that point
because like I was able to switch from gonga to
Timbally's or drump, so I was not having to bang
my hands on the Yeah, the nerves, and that was
a thing. When you kind of have like that natural tallet,
sometimes you don't nurture technique. And it's exactly and especially when,
(14:37):
especially when you grew up in that environment, et cetera.
Sometimes it's like, why I have the natural talent, why
am I going to focus on technique. I had to
go back and learn technique when I went to college,
when I went to Berkeley, to be able to retrain myself,
which felt so foreign and so weird, to play in
a way that unhinged me and also didn't hurt my
(14:58):
body for me not just playing. I never learned technique
get either of self taught like Pops and never went
to school to learn how to play drums. We we
didn't or percussion. We didn't take any lessons from anyone
and just learned by watching. And Um that being said,
I used to say technique is not important, just whatever works,
(15:22):
whatever works right, And and I learned later on that
that's not true. Um yeah, because definitely the way that
I play, you know, there's certain ways to grip the stick.
Both thumbs have been in a semi little cast or thing.
I've had stuff. I had PRP done from my elbow
here because the pain was so bad, so they took blood,
(15:45):
spun it and then put it back in and I
grew new tissue, so I didn't have to have surgery.
Umard girl. Yeah yeah, but then tear my shoulder. My
back went out from playing in my heels every day,
you know, on your double pedals solo on David Letterman
(16:07):
with your heels. I think that I think that was
I don't know what you did right there to your body,
but that's probably responsible for like ten percent of whatever
is going on. No, actually that was way after my injury.
Um No, I did that because I was like, you know,
you're gonna be on David Letterman, I'm gonna look like
I love looking, and I'm gonna take one for the team,
(16:27):
and I'm wearing those heels. And these heels didn't They
weren't the ones like they would move, you know, like
they were like yeah, but they were like would And
so if you're playing like this, it's like, what is this?
Did you practice of them before? You just know? You
can't know because they were because they were trying to
(16:51):
like get camera angles and filming, and I was just like, no,
I'm just gonna have to take one for the team.
I'm just gonna wear these and playing them. It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous. I thank you for it and getting that
insight it was incredible. And that little six eight moment,
I thank you for that too, because even you couldn't
(17:12):
never it before. I love you, thank you for your service.
But what's what's really funny is right after that happened,
uh in Services, I mean l A at the center staging.
So they had this big drum thing that's happening. They
wanted all the drummers, and all the drummers would I
(17:32):
mean everyone was there, just about everyone. And I walked
up and all the guys are like, yeah, thanks Sheila, Yeah,
thanks for the David Letterman, Yeah thanks. It's like, you
guys aren't gonna wear heels in a dress? Well you
I could have, but I'm like, no, you're not. They
were they were making fun of me, but they were laughing, going, yeah,
only you could do what you just did. I was like, hey,
(17:54):
you're welcome, get a girl. Yeah. Also, um, I'm gonna
take this opportunity that you're trapped here in space. I
just have an idea. You don't have to say yes
right now. You can think about it. Just think about
pedals for drums, right. But the shoes built in you
feel me, you know what I mean? It could be
(18:15):
a hell if you want you know, I did that already.
Know I'm thinking like more of a Doc Martin. But
maybe that's like, oh, that's like wearing a heell. No,
that's worse. They're heavy. No, you're your knees. No, that's
not going to I'll give you the lesbian version. You'll
be fine. I don't know what that is with those. No,
(18:36):
actually my dad got these for me. Okay, those are
kind of my dad's kind of a lesbian. No, I
think the double pedal with uh with something else because
a lot of times now, like I don't really have
time to put on tennis shoes, but I a lot
(18:58):
of times for years, and I've been wearing no shoes.
So I put, so I put. I have the guys
put the like the duct tape. I guess whatever is
the black tape on the petals, because it's engraved, you
know what model is. It'll scrape up your your feet.
So I let them put that on there and then
(19:19):
I'm able to just play barefoot. You probably feel the
vibrations also all the same, but it's still that's just
as bad too, and I'm just seeing you with with
the d W emblem on the bottom of your feet
and your thumbs going say, listen, I'm in my twenties
(19:39):
and I have so many injuries, but I'm not even
gonna go there. Oh there's so many yeah, and so
many things have happened on stage. I've fallen. Stuff from
the Trust came and hit my head, and a big
piece of the plastic stuck in my head. I've yeah,
a stick broke and stuck me on the side of
my head. No, there's so many things that to happen.
(20:00):
What's the worst thing that's happened. Um, When we started
the Purple Rain tour, we played Detroit. We opened in Detroit,
and two things that happened the first two days. The
first day, Um, the p A system went out, and
well the sound system not p A, it was the
sounds of twenty people in Detroit. You don't mess around.
(20:23):
And we started Detroit for a reason. We're playing. Everything
goes out and I'm like all I hear is from
the room, like the drums and then the bass ample
zone and that was it. I'm like, what the heck?
And everyone's looking like what. Then all of a sudden,
every twenty thousand people start booing boom, and I'm like, wait,
I can't, I can't and I'm taking the mic can't
(20:46):
and You're like, I'm like, oh my god, this is crazy.
So I took the guy my bass players bass. I
didn't play bass. I took the bass. I'm like, I'm
gonna play something, and I'm playing right. They're like bo
(21:06):
like no, no, no, okay. I'm like, oh my god.
So then they couldn't fix it. I'm I'm on stage
for like five minutes and then I see Prince on
the side and he's they're all telling us, waving us
to get off the stage. So we get off stage
and he's like, it's okay. Is He felt so bad
because he's like, why are they boring? What happened? She
was not good, like you know, so it happened to
(21:29):
the first show of the tour. So we get off
stage where waiting. Twenty minutes went by and and then
they fixed it. And then Prince said, you don't have
to go don't go out there. You don't have to
go out there. We're just well, we'll start the show,
I mean the rest of the show, and we'll do
we'll start again tomorrow. I said, no, that's not gonna happen.
He goes, no, No, no no, you don't. I said, no,
you don't understand. I'm going out there and I'm gonna play. No,
(21:51):
I am not going to leave on that. No, no, no,
I don't get booed that. That doesn't that doesn't like
I don't I get well, I'm too competitive for that,
yes exactly. And he looked scared. He was really like,
I don't know that. You should have said, yeah, I should.
I went out there and I just kicked butt. And
(22:12):
because of that, it was like the audience like it
was piercing, screaming, like I had to get them back.
I didn't want to leave them like that. Wow. So
do I get to ask you something? Okay? Where'd you
two meet? Oh? It got quiet. It was Emily was
(22:38):
battling an alligator and I came out of the woods
with my machete and I said, don't weary damns in distress.
I'm here to rescue you, mama. And I said, you
don't know what you're going for at what? I think
(23:00):
have a button for that. Okay, So one more question? Yeah, okay,
all right, So out of all the instruments, like musically,
like your parents being in the business. Um, is there
one particular thing that you like more than anything else
as far as being a musician or an artist. You
(23:22):
love playing piano or guitar or percussion. Is there a one?
Or songwriting or singing or is it all? Oh? Because
what was your first passion? All right, this is gonna
be a really wild answer. We're gonna keep it short.
In my relationships with human beings, like romantic relationships, I'm
(23:43):
extremely monogamous. I just like monogamy. I don't have anything
against polyamory. I think it's beautiful. I get it, like
you know, we always talk about it, et cetera. In
my musical life, I am so polyamorous. I feel like
so many people have described. You can be playing drums
(24:05):
or playing something and you get so frustrated, and there's
moments where you're in love and it's intense and you
can play for ten hours and then there's one more.
Two're like, I don't want to touch a stick if
it kills me in those moments. How awesome that I
can go cheat on the drums with piano and vocals
and production and they don't talk back. You know what
(24:26):
I mean? So like I am such a polyamorous musician,
you know, like I just I look, I don't consider
myself an expert in any field because I went to
a school where I saw people dedicate themselves wholeheartedly to
their craft, and I thought that that's what I wanted
to do, and I didn't want to I wasn't infatuated
(24:46):
in that respect. I thought I wanted to be a
touring player because I love to play, but I love
to play everything. If you go to my concert, I
literally have my drums, my voice, some weird effect on
my voice, a pedal um for and whatever I add
stuff every show. You know what I mean? You're being
creative because I'm like, why not? Yeah, there are no rules.
(25:07):
I'm so happy. I'm so happy to be here. Thank
you for everybody. Good Peanut Gallery. If you could go back,
(25:31):
Sheila and do one of your two childhood dreams, either
be on the Mood, female astronut on in the Mood
or Peter Olympic gold medalist. Which one would you choose? Olympics? Well,
if you would have asked me, let me see, I'm
gonna be six in December. Yes, it's a big awesome.
(25:54):
It's a big number. Um. But if you would ask
me right before fifty or at fifty, I would have
said the moon maybe. But because I did, like when
they first started talking about signing up to be, you know,
one of the few that can go into space, and
I was, I signed up a long time ago, a
(26:17):
long time ago. But now I'm older. No, I'm not
going up. Forget it, forget about it? Are you kidding me?
I got older, so I believe even though I feel
i'm older, I'm wiser. I feel that I could still
(26:38):
win the Olympics. And then there you go. So I
think that if I went out there, like you know,
they have different age brackets now, but I was about
to say, they like, we should stop stigmatizing the age
and athletes. I feel like if we, if we continued,
you know the same way that we're expanding our minds
in so many ways, Like why aren't we watching seventy
(27:01):
year olds play pickleball? Well they know, but they are.
They're like year old guy that ran the track and
I don't know what Olympic or something whatever it is,
but yeah, he's like he was like a hundred years
old just recently that's going to be. Yeah, I could
never you never know, you know, I mean, listen, mind
(27:24):
over matter and whatever your heart, that passion for what
you want to do. A problem with with the stigma
of aging. Everybody, now get botox, get this, get that
that really don't believe in age. I was thirteen hanging
out with forty five year olds, feeling like we were
more on the same page. You were grown young anyway.
(27:44):
I don't think you're you're old soul for real, because
you were around so many people and because of the
industry and seeing you like I remember seeing you perform
one time with your mom and you were really young
and you're hanging out backstage and you knew everyone. Everyone
knew you. You've been around older people most of your life. Yeah.
So yeah, well yeah, And you know what's funny in
(28:07):
the ways, and I talked about this with Gema all
the time, in the ways in that respect that I
was mature. On the opposite side, I suffer in real
life immaturity. Absolutely understand what I mean, Absolutely I understand that.
But that's okay. Hoving awareness and understanding is a gift.
(28:27):
But at the same time that immaturity is what's happening
right now. We're in space on a freaking show that
you're having your childhood dream right now and we're in
space and what are we doing. We're sitting here having
a blast. Oh my god, we're having at But you
(28:48):
need a drum shot. No no, no, no, no, no, no,
no wow. You know what, you know what? You are
gonna redo these suns you need? No, this is this
is sad. This is sad right now, roasted by you.
(29:17):
At least need some percussion and a ram shop. But
I agree, here's the thing. Go ahead, your best excuse
it's not excuse. Actually, if you listen to our show,
we have a lot of boot It's just that we
do it with our mouth and I do it in post.
But you know what what the Queen says has done
in the next episode, I'm going to start it. I
(29:39):
don't care who the guest is. The guest I'm gonna
be like, hi, um before we do anything, I just
want to say, I'm gonna I'm gonna display the new
buttons that we have. We're even though we're in space
with wen't we can't bring percussion to this in space.
There's I see the I see it. You want to
(30:03):
know something that I bet you wouldn't guess what. That's
a nice shaking it. Oh. I was about to say,
jem is in my band. I am shout out my
band and so sorry to anybody who tries to book
my band because there are a million people that was like,
I'm like, can you do an acoustic setment? Like do
you have space for eleven? So? How big is your band?
(30:24):
Let's see right, They're like, Hi, can you do this?
I'm like no, And again, you know what, in that respect,
I will happily call myself spoiled. I know it's that's
not being spoiled. That is not being spoiled because when
you're creating and something that you really create is passionate
and what you've brought this gift and your ideas and
(30:49):
what you want to hear in yourself. This is all like,
this's not easy to do, so when you hear it,
you want it to sound like you wanted to sound.
There's nothing wrong with that. So people want us to
go out and have two people and play the tracks.
It's not fun if that's not musical to me, So
I agree with live band is just that's what it
(31:10):
should be there's nothing wrong with that. My problem is
that I will go out and I will enjoy DJ
set and I like trying to concert. I will enjoy it.
My problem is that what I don't enjoy is musical
music not being performed that way. You know, Like, if
you're an artist that I'm listening to your music and
(31:32):
you have a killer guitar solo and a deep pocket
and a grooving baseline, I don't want to hear you
press a button. I want to see the people freaking
play it. I'm sorry, I'm with you, and it's really
And this is the part where I um acknowledge my
privilege because you're out there, you have a band. Doesn't
matter how good you are, it is difficult to move it,
(31:57):
to have the money to move it, to have the
money to fund it, to make it happen, to fill
the room. That's why it's like, damn man, at least
back in the day from what I hear, because I
was in half in my mom's over and half of
my dad's ball sack. But oh man, too much, so
(32:28):
it happens. Sorry, you guys signed up for this. That's awesome,
it's perfect. But um, but anyway, yeah, so I I
do have a you know, a problem with that because
Jem in the band, you know, like and also everybody
in the band, I'm like, you do one thing, Hell no,
you're gonna do two things? Can do three things. So yeah,
(32:50):
we have eleven people on stage and they sound like
twenty because forget it, double up, let's be musical, let's
figure it out, let's sing. Let's know what. If you can't,
that's fine, like tell me that you can't. But if
you're open to it and working with it, that's what
I love. Like, like you said, music is not about competition.
It's about collaboration, always support, you know, like the silence
(33:16):
Jesus Christ. The best solos in the world have, you know,
three quarter notes of silence and one that's not one note.
But I you know, like Jesus. So, I don't know
what the end of that whole thing was. I'm looking
at the freaking meat roads funny I was going, And
(33:41):
then what did I ask the question? The question we
were talking about the band, So you know what, if
you're trying to hire me out there, if you you're
not gonna know, I'm kidding, I'm willing to work with you.
But I'm bringing my crew. Yeah, we've slept out couch before. Wait,
I'm back Hello. That's what happens when you're in space.
(34:06):
Jam sings plays violin, plays checking it, dances and looks
beautiful on the stage. Thank you nine. At the same time,
that's nice violin. I used to play violin my first tattoo.
Used to play violin. No way played for five years.
I was first violin, but because my ear was really
(34:29):
fast and learning, if you played something for me, I
would just immediately play it. So with the music being
in front of me, and I was just like staring
in space and I wouldn't even look at the music
and I would just play. It was just fast. And
then one day my teacher in the eighth grade said,
can you play from bar like eight two or whatever?
(34:51):
I like, yeah, can you play it? First? Make sure
I'm in the and then she's like come here. And
then I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm in trouble. I walk
up and she says, well, do you know how to
read music? I said no. She said, well, how is
that possible, because your first violinist, you've been playing like
I was getting a scholarship, And I said, I don't
(35:12):
know it. Just I just stare at it and and close
my eyes and just play whatever you play. Do you
think that you have to do you think that reading
music is helpful to be a musician or absolutely I
wish I would have learned you can't read music. No,
it's not too late. And that's what I was just
gonna say. I mean, I can site read a little bit,
(35:34):
like if I hear it so and I look at
it and I start listening to it, and I I'm like, okay,
I think I get okay. But if I looked at
it and I didn't hear it, I couldn't tell you
what it says. You know what's really funny that's incredible
site reading is my parents neither of them read music.
And but you went to Berkeley, so I'm sure you do.
(35:54):
Um I read music before I went to Berkeley. And
Jen can attest to that because she's classically trained. So
she is like, you put a paper in front of her.
She's like, that doesn't matter. The key thing. I could
put a drum not anymore, but maybe at one point,
like I could put a drum chart in front of
(36:15):
you and you would be able to read the rhythm
like nothing and I started to become entranced with it
because it's hypnotic. It's it's kind of like, I don't know,
like a puzzle. Like it makes a lot of sense,
you know what I mean, It really does. Yeah, so
I got in transfer it in that way and it
(36:36):
only helps. But being on both sides, like I didn't
know how to read music until way later, you know,
or I read piano music, but also like practiced not
like naturally because it really is a language. You don't
want to memorize the music. You want to be able
to understand it. That's the difference. But that's what's even
(36:58):
challenging for some people that only read. When you take
the paper away, there's no heart because they don't know
how to do that. And that's that's that you have
to have both. That balance is so important and vice versa.
I mean, there's some people who can play with your
heart you can't read and you know, but then you know,
you get into the studio. Same thing with live and recording.
(37:18):
There's two different things, and there's so much that is
so different about each, you know, the discipline. That's what
I was going to say that I'm still young, gonna
have a lot to learn, and like Coltrane said, the
moment you stop learning, you're done. You're done. You're never
going to know everything. So that's why I love this journey. However,
if there's anything I've learned is that I don't I
(37:41):
think that you could be the best site reader in
the world, but if you don't have the heart, forget it.
I think that you've got to lead with the heart
and the feeling site reading helps. But for me, I've
only seen that leading with the other side and upplementing
with knowledge is what does it? You have to lead
(38:03):
with heart. Art and music is a language of vulnerability.
It's a language of imperfection, and a lot of the
rules that come with theory and reading are gauged upon
old perfectionist theories. So enter jazz, enter enter or net Coleman.
(38:26):
But yeah, yeah, said f you music theory. We create
our own rules. Over here, your beautiful genre was made
and then came all the other ones. Thank you jazz.
I mean, think about the people that were stretching skins
of the animals that they killed on god knows what bones, rocks,
(38:50):
banging it creating a hypnotic rhythm. You know what, what
kind of language. Is that you think they were writing
sixteen notes on their cave walls. Hell to no, no.
But it was a language that only they understood and
it was amazing or because it was all hard, it
was all it was there speaking a different language from here.
(39:11):
This is what this means, you know. And before write
music theory, before writing music like that, it was just
passed on through family, through generation teaching the songs, which
is all hard also and passed on like the plane
the Puerto Rican plaina like there was a train netwent
you know, through Puerto Rico, and there were people on
(39:31):
the train that had these drums and the plane they
would like plague kind of you know whatever, and tell
the news, I mean, as they were playing drums. So
you'll be on the on the freaking train and be like,
you know whatever, and they're like said, well, you know whatever.
I mean, I'm sure that was not the news whatever.
(39:54):
And those kind of stories like they never come from math,
come from heart, they come from necessity. They come from
boredom of humanity and the monotony of everyday in life.
But anyway, yeah, but that's a lot of knowledge right
there that maybe some people not have have not heard
you know, it's it's the thing. I just say that
(40:16):
anyone who's watching this that you know, you find your passion. Uh,
you'll never go wrong when you find your passion what
you know, what you want to do. It's it's a
different thing. I know some people can't do that because
you have to work and you have to make money,
you have to take care of your family, and there's
(40:37):
a lot going on. But somewhere even within that, in
that struggle or that's something that you have to do
that you don't want, find something on the side that
really makes you happy and passionate about something. Because that
balance is so important. It is really important, especially now
because things are so crazy, and that applies to music.
You know, learn how to read music. I think you should.
(40:59):
I think people should read Um, it's really important. But
also that balance of playing from your heart as well.
Take the paper away and and find that expression. What
are you gonna say without looking at that paper? That's
going to allow you to grow as an artist, you know,
And I think that's important too. Yeah, totally listen to
(41:20):
Queen E from the Cosmos. I'm gonna put reverb on
this and I will sound much more glorious. Than they
do right now, Glorious, I do want to ask you
(41:47):
a couple more questions, if that's okay sure, one of
which is your your memoir you wrote, yes, incredible book.
Or you're very vulnerable and shared a lot and um,
I could not leave here today without touching upon a
couple of things that to me have touched my life. Like,
(42:10):
for example, the first concert I ever remember was Prince.
When the emblem was in the middle of the arena,
it was like floating. I remember my mom whispered in
my own she goes, you see that road case, like
Princess in that road case and he's gonna like they're
taking him to the stage now, like it's gonna happen whatever.
(42:32):
And I was like what I was like, locked on
this road case, I'm like, is he in here? Is
he in there? Whatever? And then the emblem lights up
and but I'm like and that was like the first
moment I'm like, oh, this is what I want to do.
I want to be a musician. I want to play.
I want to make people feel how I am feeling
(42:54):
right now. But anyway, so you had this incredible relationship
with Prince and everything, like if you could tell me,
what have you learned from that musical experience? Because if
anybody's a musician out there, forget about like fame and
that ship. For me, it's about chops and like not
only you, but he is someone that I looked up
(43:16):
to so much. So if you could say, like what
you've learned and like what you could impart from all
that incredible love and music and everything you guys did together. Um,
I think one thing that was pretty cool, um is
that when I met him, I was already playing with
George Duke and he was doing his recording his record
(43:38):
in San Francisco. He came to the Bay Area to
record his record. But later on, like I was used
to recording in the studio with like George Duke and
other people, and and when I'd fly to l A
from Oakland. Um, there was a certain way, or I guess,
like when you walked in the door with you know,
(44:00):
to be expected to walk into a studio and getting
sounds and you know, making sure everything's clean about all
of this other stuff right, and sometimes taking two hours
to get a drum sound, and you're going, if you
just mike the drums and the mike write it should
just sound like drums? Why is it taking two hours? That?
And that's what I learned from Prince because when we
(44:21):
started recording in the studio. It's so funny because a
little bit like me, like I didn't spend that much
time setting up drums, not unless it depends on who
the engineer was, And so we would set up I
would sometimes, I mean most of the time the drums
were set up. But if I'm playing drums, I'm getting
(44:42):
my stick bag and he's ready to go, and it's
like one we didn't even get a sound like I'm
still putting on the symbol, like it doesn't even matter,
like the drum sound like the drums, like, let's just play.
He never spent time. He never spent time like getting
sound like let's just keep no, let's just play the music.
So if there were if my cow bill was like
(45:03):
ringing a lot, or you heard like his bass had
this funky little buzzing on it or whatever, and it
just sounded like that's the sound of it. It's all
muddy and stinky and funky. It's just gonna sound like that.
He didn't clean it up to take all the soul
out of something. Oh, he never did them. Things were dust,
(45:24):
they had food and all kind of those strings like forever,
all all of that, but that's what it's all dead, exactly,
all dead strings, just and so the same thing. He
wouldn't like. There was one time I walked in, uh
bless his heart, but John blackwell he's past now, but
he was playing and I walked in the studio and
(45:47):
Prince was in the control room and John is playing,
and I'm like, I walked in. I was like, what
is he playing? And he's like, he said what I said?
And I looked at said those drums and he said
what I said, they sound horrible. What do you literally?
And I walked out there and he laughed, he goes,
(46:08):
we'll go fix him. I said, oh my god, I
walked out there. John. I guess because they were trying
to get a sound, he didn't tune them greater, I
don't know. And the Prince was like, they don't sound good.
So he just kept putting like paper towels and then
duct tape and then taping. There was so much patting
on the drum and the drumheads themselfs it sounds like
(46:29):
nothing like it would sounded hard. I said. The drum
is gone. You're past any kind of drum sound. So
I took it all off. I took everything off, and
I retuned the drums. They sounded amazing, But I mean, hey,
you know the story of my dad. He walks into
the studio, he goes, somebody's playing Team Balets. He goes,
(46:51):
he goes, oh, yeah, what the hell is that? They
sound like? Think cons and turns around, he goes, they
are Oh my god. It's really incredible, though, Sheila, Because
and I wonder when you were starting out and you
(47:12):
were in the industry, probably as the only am I wrong,
You guys can correct me, historically the only female percussionist
in your field doing what you were doing. I don't
know that I was because percussion, like, I didn't see
a lot of women, or I didn't hear a lot
of women playing, except growing up in the Bay Area
in Oakland. Everyone Berkeley, Oakland, we all went to the
(47:36):
parks and then in front of Berkeley and we just jammed.
So there were men and women playing. How we go ahead,
Karen Carpenter. But nobody knew that she was a drummer. Well,
they knew she was a drummer, they didn't she They
didn't know she played somewhat percussion, but she was. She
also played vibes and marimba percussion as well. She was
but yeah, but she her drum playing was incredible, Like
(48:00):
she was more amazing than people can. They don't even
understand how amazing she was. But also there was another
young lady named Bobby Hall that was a becausion player
that was playing with Bob Dylan at the time, Black
African woman who was amazing. Um. And and then there
was something someone else I just saw recently, this lady.
(48:21):
There are a bunch of drummers, but they just weren't known.
But no one knew. You know, did you know? Did
you feel? I guess not. You kind of maybe answered
my question because if your upbringing, because I've always wondered,
I'm like, does she little know what she is for
all of us? When you were in that space, was
it clear to you that you're, like, man, I gotta
fight extra hard because I'm a woman in this male
(48:41):
dominated space or was it just easy for you? No,
it's not easy now, It's never been easy. My fight
has never stopped. I've been fighting since I started, and
the fight continues. It's just what it is. But to
be honest, yeah, it's it's just what it is. I mean,
it's yeah, I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, any advice for
(49:01):
us who are going to continue to fight alongside you
in this in these kinds of environments, because it's not
just in music, Yeah it is not. No, I think
you know, the one thing that you can do is
to you know, again, finding that passion. So if this
is what you want to do, there will be a
lot of nose. But to me, no doesn't mean I'm
(49:22):
not capable. No doesn't mean I'm not able. No means opportunities,
So I'm gonna find a way. No means opportunity, doesn't
mean I am not able to do what I want
to do because my passion is way much stronger than
anything you could ever tell me or do, So you know,
I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt anymore. But I mean,
but that does happen. But I mean, because we're humans,
(49:44):
so it does. It does hurt, you know, But I
think the best thing you can do finding that passion.
When you're that passionate, it hurts harder, it hurts worse,
it hurts often. But um, I think you know, staying
true yourself and who you are and who you want
to be um and and allowing people to see that
(50:08):
the love that you have for what you do. You know,
you don't take me for granted, because then at this
point in my life, don't mess with me, because you
never know what's gonna happen. Question follow up question, Was
there ever a point that you almost quit? Yeah, a
couple of times. And I'm not a quitter. You don't
(50:32):
seem like a quitter, not a quitter at all, not
a quitter. But a couple of times I think you know,
there's a the industry is so hard, and especially even
for women and women of color, it's so hard, and
it's so challenging and it's difficult. And then you kind
of go like, well, we've spent all this money doing
(50:53):
our project. We've paid everyone, and you've spent a quarter
of a million dollars. You spent a half a million
dollars to do this wonderful project, and even though it's
going to be bounced down to a stupid MP three,
which is dumb, and then you're gonna go right, and
then you're gonna after we paid for this amazing studio
(51:13):
with the sound and the mics that are ten thousand dollars,
but we're gonna hear it back on an MP three
um um. Now we have the wave files, yes, but
then you're gonna go streaming, and then we get a
half of a half and a half of a cent
that doesn't even exist because then you're gonna stream it
for like a thousand times for me to make like
ten dollars. I love this job. It's like that's when
(51:38):
I just keep going, what are we doing? So basically
what we're doing is you're the people that are streaming
and listening to the songs, and the way we're supporting you.
I said, no, what you just did was you came
over and you took the keys in my car, and
you took my car and never came back. So I'm
not getting anything from you streaming me. It doesn't mean
no disrespect to the streaming, but it's a disrespect it is.
(52:01):
It is a disrespect. I'd like to take this moment
to inform our listeners. If you use a streaming service
out there, the best one in terms of how much
they pay their artists is Title but between Apple Music
and Spotify, and I'm not paid to say this. I'd
like to say that Apple Music pays three times more
(52:21):
per play than Spotify does. So if you love your
musicians and you want to support them, just remember that
it takes them three times as long to make even
a thousand dollars on one song as it does on
Apple Music. So choose wisely, please, you know what else
is my problem? Yes, Jim, thank you so much. Please
do that. If you're always shading my friends, I'm like,
(52:42):
take your poison. However, do you think Joni Mitchell was
going to be doing TikTok's? Like? Why is that a
part of our job? I don't understand. Like, I'm here
to go in the studio, put my head down right,
play record, go out on tour, put my body on
the line. Now you want me to my entire life,
I'm not doing it, and I'm not doing it. That's
(53:06):
that's a whole another job. Because now we've made it
a point where YouTube is are new. I'm not this
and all of this, it's all it's what it is now,
and now there are no rules. Now they're making the rules,
and we have to we get nothing like they're getting.
They're making a kazillion dollars off of um. You know,
people coming for advertisement and then they pay you a
(53:28):
little something just to keep you interested. It's just can
you just pay me for the work that I just did?
And everyone else that put their lives on the line
basically like saying, you know, they stopped, they had to
get babysitters, they have kids, they have families they need
to feed. How do I feed my family? I'm not again,
I'm It just doesn't make any sense. So when you
(53:49):
I'm answering your question like that's when I want to quit.
When I'm going what are we doing? Why am I
doing this? What am I getting out? It's not that
it's just the money, it's the respect. You are not
respecting who I am as an artist. You're not respecting
what I do. You're not respecting and understanding that this
gift is a gift. But it takes a blessed wet
(54:11):
and tears and the things that we right, we get
personal with what we talked about sometimes what that takes
and what we went through. But you're gonna stream and go,
you know, I don't want to pay you for what
you just went through last year. Really, it's no sense
of painion it doesn't make any it doesn't make any sense.
It's probably I don't even know what time it is,
probably like four thirty in the morning, but coming right
(54:35):
at least stopped you know what, we stopped it with
with immaculate vibes. I will say this though, Um, in
learning about your book, I learned something incredible, which is
that your Nicole Richie's on it. Well, I haven't seen
it in a long time, but yes, I mean so yeah, no,
so my brother Peter Michael, Um, I mean he and
(54:59):
his a long time ago girlfriend they had Nikki, and so, yeah,
Nikki is my niece and crazy she I mean to me,
she actually just like my mom. That's their their twins.
Oh my god. It must be so interesting to see
like the nature versus nurture argument in a situation like that,
to see like what you truly just inherit exactly. Yeah,
(55:22):
we all wish that we were closer. We haven't seen it.
We haven't seen her in a while. So and when
we do, I mean, it was like COVID two years ago. Yeah,
it's just it's been a minute. But I mean we
we're very family oriented. We just love being around family.
I feel the same way. Family is number one in
my life and family comes in a million different ways.
(55:43):
Oh yeah, Queen Sheila, Yes, ma'am. It has been an
immaculate honor, joy and jubilance to have you on the spaceship.
Yeah you um to feel your energy, to have you
share so beautifully, to just converse with you over your
GUC It's been a gift, a real gift. Thank you
(56:08):
so much for having first of all, to be able
to see you. I haven't seen you in a while,
but to just sit here and hang out and uh,
in the middle of a hurricane in Miami in two
thousand twenty two. Yeah, and we're in space and what
can I say? You can put some reverb on this?
Are you and you get back to the place and
you'll say, wow, Queen she love us here we're going,
(56:31):
Oh my god. And when you're in space and can
you believe watch this happens is freaking I'm gonna put
that on a loop when I go to bed at night. Wow,
this is freaking amazing. All right, Well, I want to
hear Jem's final thoughts. And while you say that, oh no,
(56:53):
go please take it away. Oh wait, you take it away.
I'm gonna bring this tube over here, and when we
play the song, we're gonna percuss out. Wow, that's okay, Sure,
all right, go ahead, tube away. Thank you for flying
with us today on in our own world. Thank you
(57:17):
for flying with us today, Jim, em and Sheila A
just kidding. It's e but that rhyme, so you're gonna
have to deal with it in your time. Thank you
for trying with us. That's all. We got it this time, guys.
(57:38):
These bottles are fun. All right, guys, we percussed, We
did it. Thank you for flying with us today. Guys,
it has been a journey. Thank you so much, Auntie
Sheila if I can call you that, absolutely darling. It
has been such a pleasure for me. Also, you know,
really excited for m two because I know how much
(57:59):
this means to so just thank you so much. I
hurt you back. See you for part two. See we're
dragging her in. Thank you so much. We're gonna go
to Mars. Oh goodbye, everybody, love you, goodbye. Yeah. This
(58:22):
is a Moonflower production in partnership with I Hearts Michael
podcast Network. For more podcasts, visit the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hosts And Creators
Gemeny Hernandez
Emily Estefan
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