Ep. 116: Spending Money to be a Better Shot with a Bow?

Will the latest and greatest archery products help you shoot better? Jason sits down with Cory Miller and discusses what really matters when it comes to being a better archer. Cory gives his opinion on the bows, rests, sights, stabilizers, arrows, broad-heads and what affect they have on the accuracy. Jason also sprinkles in his own opinions on what matters to him when it comes to hunting and being effective.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Said day,
I'm here with my good buddy, Corey Miller. I met
Corey when he owned Triple X Archery down in Oregon,
and then since then he's uh, he's moved to Montana
for the for the he ran away from Western Washington
and now works for dart and Archery Black eagl Archerie

(00:32):
and excited to have him on the show. To Hey, Ben, Corey,
you know Glad.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I don't know if you heard. I guess I was
doing my tour through the beautiful state of Oregon and Washington,
and I.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
See I was in Kansas hunt, but I've seen pictures
of the beautiful Uh people wanted your bows in the
back of your truck more than you did.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, they broke my windows out and to my bows.
But other than that, just reminded me why I wanted
to live in Montana and just kind of be left
alone out here.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
You and then the when you came to help get
my boat set up. You drove it all the way
from Montana to Washington. We got it all set up
and I think we had three inches of rain that day. Yeah,
it was that was That was a good reminder of
how much easter rain here.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, exactly, it's just barely start a snow here, So
I'll take the snow over the rain.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
So no, we've you know, I I was always just,
I would say, a bow hunter. I never knew anything
about bow's. I would say, I still can't really set
my bow up. But you know, back back in the
old days, you would just go to the you know,
we had George here and I don't remember, do you
remember what his shop was? Originally twelve there.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, on Jackson Highway.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
So I had a local or the archery House, archery
house at archery House. So you know, I grew up
as a as a right full muzzloader hunter, and so
when I got into archery, you know, you buy a
bow back then, it was pick a bow off of
the front page of the you know, the Cabello's magazine, right,
and it was mail order. I didn't know that that
wasn't the way you're supposed to do it. They would

(02:13):
really prefer if she went and bought a bow off
of their off of the rack, and so I had
to find somebody set it up. Evidently you can't just
you know, put a put a rest on everything on.
And so I did that for a couple of years,
and you know, through the Internet, the explosion Internet realized
that Corey was down there at Triple X Archery, went
down there and really started I wouldn't say it became
a student, but started to pay more attention like does

(02:34):
this matter? Do I need to focus on this? And
Corey was the one that kind of you know, he
He's got an uncanny way of letting you know, like Jason,
spending spending this on that rest isn't going to make
you shoot more or you know, or shoot better, or
spending this much more money on a site, because in
my mind back then, it's like, well, obviously the better
this or that is going to make me a better shooter.
And and Corey was pretty pretty uh up front, He's like,

(02:56):
why don't you spend more time shooting?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Or why don't you do this and that?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
And and so that's really what I want to jump
into today a little bit is what matters, you know,
four a hunter, what matters for a target archer? What
you know when I look at a bow, You've got
your bow, then you've got your site, your rest, your stabilizer,
you got your release you've got your arrows right, there's
just a few things that you could control.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
And Corey's always did a good job.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
I've been able to listen to him interact with customers,
interact with people that are on his staff that aren't
on his staff, and I kind of like the way
he approaches it. So I'm excited to have you on
here and really just kind of talk through archery and
maybe reduce it down to maybe new people in archery
or people that have been in it for a long
time that maybe aren't the greatest shots or and what
really matters and what they should probably focus on more

(03:43):
so than than not.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, it's definitely most definitely learning how to
shoot a bow is top priority. And at that point,
it doesn't matter if you've got the most expensive or
the cheapest bow. If you don't know how to shoot it,
you can only shoot to your ability. And you know,
for the most part, most of the bows today will

(04:10):
outshoot most of us archers. So they're that good, they're
that consistent. I mean, we've really pushed everything as almost
as far as we can push it. You know, cam material,
string material, riser material, you know, all that stuff has
gotten better and more consistent. So learning how to shoot

(04:34):
is priority.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're gonna I'm gonna bause us
just for a second. I'm gonna jump into just like
three questions that I get that maybe I'm not skilled,
you know, I'm not the appropriate one to answer. So
I'm gonna jump in. This is gonna be your Penalton Whiskey,
Q and A sessions. So I'm gonna throw three questions
at Kory and kind of see, you know what your opinion,
and it kind of gets us, gets us into our conversation.

(04:56):
But just some questions that I'm I'm you know, given
and maybe not the right one to answer. And number one,
you know me and you do you know seminars clinics,
you know, we both we the last couple of times
we've did it, we've been at our our buddy, you know,
Ryan Lampers, you know, his Hunt summit, and and Joel
Turner's there and he gets into this like mental side

(05:20):
of shooting, which I try to completely block out because
I don't want to get target panic. I'm so competitive
that I don't want to try to hit a perfect
circle all the time. So I've always kind of blocked
out everything Joel. I like Joel, but I've blocked out
everything he tries to teach because I don't want to
get inside my own head. But in your opinion, and
not as a target archer, I believe that ninety nine

(05:42):
percent of the people that listen to this podcast ninety
nine percent of people that pick up their bow or
it's just strictly bowhunters. But what should you be thinking
of as you're shooting? Should you come up with a routine,
should you just be thinking about aiming your bow and
you know, squeeze your trigger like in your opinion, what
should that process be or look like for most guys?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think there is kind of
a bridge of target archery to hunting, you know, as
far as nerves of kind of getting used to shooting
amped up and a little nervous.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Used to go through definitely a shot process, and my
main thing was for me is I just kept simple
look through the peep because so many times I'll watch
guys just draw back and anchor eyes wide open. They
forget to even look through the peep and you know,
they see the site housing start to fill up with
hair and they're just anking the trigger, you know, so

(06:43):
trying to keep keep a shot process, keep your mind occupied,
I think a little bit better. So I do believe
in both sides of you know, kind of a lot
of the stuff that Joel's talking about and also keeping
it simple. But ever since I've moved to Montana, me personally,

(07:04):
like I used to shoot tournament wise, I think, you know,
very competitively and very well. When it would come to hunting,
it was a different a whole different deal for me
because of the heartbeat, and so I never felt like
I executed shots like I do on rubber animals or
paper targets, so beings. And I'm in Montana and I

(07:28):
get to shoot a lot of white tails, I think
one hundred percent, I've gotten so much better. I've gotten
so much more comfortable of putting a pin on an
animal and then going through my shot process. So unfortunately,
a lot of us only get an opportunity once a
year or maybe once there a couple of years to
put the pin on the on the animals. So going

(07:51):
through a shot process is going to help as much
as it can. But experience, really, but there's just cold
boot killers, you know that can't really hit paper. But
they break the hunting thing down really simple, like like
you're more of that, Like you point to where I
need to put an arrow to kill it, and that's it,

(08:11):
and you don't overthink that. You just pretty much drawback
and it's got to be there and touch it off.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, And that's for me, uh, you know, and why
I try to like block out the mental game. But
we're gonna get into hunting versus target accuracy and what's required.
But for me, I didn't want you know, I shoot
a matrix target and it's got a six inch hecks
in the middle, right, and I I as long as
I'm in that. And maybe I should put more pressure

(08:39):
on myself to be a better archer, but and.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I do.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, right, I'm not the world's best archer, but I
shoot pretty good for the most part. But I've never
put enough pressure on myself to always hit dead center
of the white, you know, like a target archer would
need to have to do it twenty yards over and
over and over. Like if I'm an inch and a
half off, hey, it's okay, Like let's we'll clean that
up up next time, or we'll we'll hold a little tighter,
or you know, maybe it was the thirtieth shot of

(09:04):
the practice session and I'm getting a little bit tired.
And so I've really not over complicated the mental side,
because I've seen people get target panic. I don't truly
understand it, but my understanding is that if I try
to overfocus on being perfect, is going to create that
because I'm going to try to force a shot and
I'm going to try to do these things.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, exactly. I've seen so many new archers come in,
get a both set up and shoot really really actually
really well. I mean i mean not like professional well,
but I mean really well, and then a month later
they come in and they've got target panic. And it
seems like the majority of that is because they try

(09:46):
too hard. They start overthinking and like, Okay, I'm going
to get this one right in the middle, and so
they really overthink the shot process and next thing, you know,
they've got the old panic. And Yeah, so sometimes just
being dumb as best.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I'm gonna be. I'm I'm built for this archery thing.
But uh yeah, as far as like what I think
about as shooting, I'm similar to you. I've made it
very you know, a rigid structured thought process. So I'm
gonna draw my bow back, and I even think as
soon as I start to put tension on my release,
like draw smood like because as a hunter, I don't

(10:26):
want an arrow to balance off the rest or. I
don't want like a hard into the valley. So I'm
already thinking like draws mood, don't let this animal see
you do this, you know, and if you took it
a step back farther like, it doesn't even have anything
do with a bow hunter. But I'm already thinking like
when can I draw and then making it smooth? So
like can I get away with drawing?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Now? Can I make it smooth?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
And then similar to you, I used to have a
bad I would look through my peep. I've never not
looked through my peep, but I would maybe not center
the peep on the you know, I shoot a Montana
black gold. So now I make sure to to halo
my peep with my center housing. So that's a consistency thing.
I've always got my my pins completely centered in just

(11:05):
they just barely fit inside the peep size that I select.
And then I glance down at my bubble and sometimes
me and my bubble this is where you know, things
can go a little sideways, because if you know, in
a hunting situation, if I'm on a thirty degree side hill,
I'm like, I don't believe you and being able to
shoot enough with you during three D like, I'll sometimes

(11:25):
split it like all right, I'm way out, but I'm
going to go about halfway and then shoot what I
feel is comfortable, because shooting all the way back to
the level is completely uncomfortable. And so for me, for
my confidence and just shooting enough, I usually like do
a half bubble where I feel like it's comfortable, and
then I go into my aiming process, so I've got
everything aligned, I've got my bubble where I think it
should be, and then you know, go through my my

(11:49):
you know, ranging process, and a lot of times I
may not have ranged exactly where the animal is. So
now I'm back to thinking why I'm in my peep,
like is that at the same spot you've ranged, do
I need to add or take you away? And then
slowly start to squeeze my trigger. And when I say slowly,
I also which is probably frowned upon. I've also got
the ability to force my shot, which some people can

(12:12):
say is good or bad. But as a hunter, you know,
and talking with you Corey, like, sometimes you need to
make the bow go off. If you're doing everything else right,
it's still gonna be okay. And I have practiced that way.
But I'll also force a shot a little bit if needed.
And so that's my process, whether it's right or wrong.
But it's very mechanic, and you know, for all situations,

(12:33):
I do the same thing over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, And I think the biggest you know, like a
lot a lot of people think, you know, just punching
the trigger is bad. It's not sometimes the most consistent
thing for some folks. There are definitely some of the
top shooters in the world are punchers. They command shoot.
You know. One of the best quotes that one of

(12:55):
those guys ever gave me was, I just got to
get the pin there. You're trying to keep it there
and which which made sense, you know, to me. But
my brain doesn't work that way. If I start commanding
the trigger, my aiming goes away, and so it's not
so much about me just punching the trigger, but then

(13:15):
I can't get the pin anywhere near the target that
I want to shoot because then I've lost all the
control on the function of the release. And so for me,
I have to go through a shot process on activating
the release, which which helps me with my aim, and
the aim is the most important thing. So if I'm

(13:37):
not putting a pin anywhere near there, and I'm locking low,
and that's where the dangerous side of target panic is
is when the guy can't put the pin anywhere near
the dot, whether or not he gets it there, and
he instantly swipes it away and gets down below it
and sits there and then does the drive by shooting,
And that's when they they're they're yarding up and trying

(13:58):
to punch the trigger at the same time. That's when
command commanding the trigger is is at its worst. But
if your if your pin is there and you help
it not the end of the world.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
So while we're here, I was I have this question
for our discussion later, but I feel like it's a
good time to add it in because I've always been interested,
like if you took like a body turner or like
your if I could somehow equip a red light, a
laser light that we could all see, like how much
movement should a shooter because That's the thing I struggle with,
Like I'm sitting here at full draw, like trying to

(14:32):
pull through, and I've always I've found that the you know,
if I'm if I'm actively pulling, I'm not like a
passive shooter. But if I'm actively engaged, my pin is
dancing right from a from a five to a ten,
and it swings to the ten, and then we might
be low left and it might be I'm over correct
and then we're going top right and you're just kind
of hovering like I've always just assumed guys like Matt

(14:54):
Schmidtz or Body or guys that are good shooters, like,
is that damn pin just like sitting over the taneg
the entire time and not moving or yes, those guys
are fighting with the same demons that I do. Like,
is this thing's bouncing everywhere?

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Well, that's the thing is we can never see what
goes inside the brain while they're aiming. So whether or
not a Bodie Turner or Site pictures is the same
as yours, No, it's not. I mean, those guys aim
extremely well, but when you look, if you were to
look through their eyes, they're still seeing movement even though

(15:30):
when we stand back and we watch them, we're like, man,
the guy's rock solid. He's still seeing movement. The difference
is he's okay with that movement. He's learned to trust that,
where a lot of us feel like we need to
hold perfectly still and you don't, you know, because the
pin if you're staring at what you're trying to hit,
you're always trying to work your way back to that box.

(15:52):
So it's okay if it moves. You just don't want
these big dips, big violent moves. But if it's humming
out there and it's just kind of dancing around, you'd
be amazed on how much if you just keep trusting
that process and shoot that shot, it's it's going to
get there.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It surprised me a little bit, and I always hated
the idea that if you're just constantly adding, you know,
more back tension, you're slowly squeezing through your release. But
I'm like, what if this thinge accidentally goes off on
that like low left, you know when you're going away,
but it surprisingly does come back. But I'm more confident
in the way that I think that if I can
somehow force that to go off as we're coming back

(16:31):
to the center, and it's somewhat controlled. I've always got
you know, I don't know whether it's sixty seventy percent
of the pressure I need to get my release to
go off. So I'm always it's not like a huge
jerk within the shot or a huge change, it's just
a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Well. The one thing one thing with aiming though, too
is it's not only is it the setup of the
of the equipment, but it's also the setup in your
shot process. Going back to learning how to shoot a
bow is so important. Learning how to shoot a bow
is also learning how to aim a bow. And so
you will find as you start to push towards the

(17:04):
target and pull into the stops that pin can the
movement will will minimize, it'll it'll start to reduce traumatically,
you know. So if I'm pushing at you, it's like
less likely that the pen can go some other direction.

(17:25):
If I'm going I'm pushing it forward toward the target,
And same thing with pulling. So that's that initial setting
up into the shot and how much do I build
into the back wall to get the pin to minimize
its movement. And then now you're activating the release during
that time. But yeah, we all move don't overthink that

(17:48):
side of it.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
So, uh, you know, as a hunter yourself in your opinion,
like what should you know a shooting session look like?
Like is there an ideal one or is it different
for everybody? Or like, guy go out and shoot twenty
random arrows. You know a lot of my sessions look like,
all right, we're gonna shoot five from twenty five, from
thirty five, from forty five from fifty and call a night.
Like is there is there a number that like builds

(18:12):
better muscle memory or is there just no standard?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
You know? I I part of me like the functionality
of a bow is like riding a bike to me,
I mean, I haven't rode a bike in three years.
If I got on, I'm not gonna crash. I'm not
gonna fall over. It's not that hard. It's the mental
side of it, like the repetitive like looking through the site,
seeing movement, trusting movement, how much movement, and activating the release.

(18:36):
So depends on what you're trying to work on, you know,
if you're just and I think that's where a lot
of people make mistakes, is they they call practice the
amount of arrows they shoot. And if you're not practicing something.
It's just like any other sport. If you're a wrestler,
you're working on certain moves. If you're a baseball player,
you're working on footwork, throwing, dance, you know, movement, You're

(19:02):
you're breaking everything down. And it's the same thing with archerie.
If you really want to get good at it, you
break down certain things and you practice those things for
those days. So depending on what you're trying to accomplish,
But just shooting arrows does not make you a better archer.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
I just noticed, like especially when I pick up a
bow or like right now, since I'm so far away
from big game season, you know, even my white tail hunt,
Like I stop shooting my bow for that two months, right,
and then you get to the white tail rut and
you're like, oh, pins moving more. My you know, I'm
not as trained. You know, I'm fatigue faster. And that's
what I I'm just out there trying to you know,

(19:46):
cause I hesitate to say this, But for me, I
shoot the same whether I pick up my boat for
the first time of the year, whether it's the day
before archialk season, like I don't become that much more accurate, like.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
No, and typically like I start out more accurate than
I am because I start overthinking stuff no longer I
start shooting, you know, you know, especially like we're transitioning
into target world right now, and so usually the first
week or so, it's like, man, my expectations aren't there.
So I actually shoot fairly well, and then all of

(20:17):
a sudden, I start thinking, Okay, I'm gonna try a
little bit harder, and then and then the wheels fall off.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Fall off. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, that's and my sessions will be you know, as
an archery hunter, i might go out and only shoot
three arrows, but I'm gonna try to set my stop
watch and hold the boat for a minute and a
half and still execute like a good shot. You know,
like you said, maybe working on Maybe that's not teaching anything,
but it's just letting me know, like, all right, you're okay,
you're on early.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
But what what that does can teach is also fatigue,
which is gonna which is going to also help see
a little bit more movement and then you can trust
more movement in that shot process. You know. So for me,
like if you're gonna there's certain things of just even
practicing aiming, and if you have a three D target,

(21:00):
the best thing to do is just to walk around
and say, okay, where do I need to point on
this animal to kill it? You know? Is it tucked
up front? Is it coming back from the third rib back?
You know? Not necessarily we're looking at scoring rings, but
looking at angles of how would I address that, and
then working on just drawing back and pointing the pin

(21:24):
on it. If it's working on execution of shop process.
I like shooting up close or shooting at big dots.
I want my brain to say it's okay to put
the pin in the dots, Okay to see the movement,
It's okay to activate the release as I see movements.
So that's all reinforcing positive stuff. By shooting up close

(21:46):
and shooting at bigger dots, A lot of people think,
you know, shooting at smaller dots. For some people maybe
that does help, but for me it's it's the trust
factor and not getting anxiety any about trying to hold somewhere.
So I like shooting big dots, yep, up close.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
We'll get we'll get into that on my side a
little bit on hunting versus target and what accuracy is
really required to go out there on shooting the big
dots or pipe plates. For me, last question is a
new hunter, what distance should I prepare for? Like, you know,
you got these guys making one hundred yard shots everyone
on social media like three hundred yard shots now or
four hundred yard shots. It's like, realistically, where should you

(22:31):
set your site tape up to? How much time should
you spend shooting there? And then realistically we can both
answer like the majority of your shots should be well
under that unless you're out in open country letting them fly.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
That's kind of a bad question, you know, I mean
because honestly, like like with social media right now, I
see so much fighting in arguments, and at the end
of the day, a lot of this stuff is morals
up to you. Your equipment that you want to use,

(23:05):
your distance that you want to shoot, the animal size
that you want to kill. All that stuff is up
to you, And I don't care what anybody else's opinion
is my personal opinion. I haven't shot an elk over
forty yards in probably fifteen years. Far. Thet shot I've
taken in those last fifteen was an antelope at fifty
two yards this year, everybody's going to be different, and

(23:28):
whatever those decisions that you make, you have to live
and die by those. So we've all lost animals, I'm
pretty sure you know, and it sucks, and none of
them make it any better. But I know, for me personally,
if the little voice in my head is questioning whether
or not I should try to attempt this distance or

(23:48):
this shot and I lose an animal, it burns more
because I knew better. Yeah, it's a hard question for
me to even say.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, And it's all moral and I thinks. But
as far as like the prac the side of you know, preparing,
like shooting at eighty yards doesn't make you any better
of an archer than shooting at for as long as
your groups are half the size, right, you know, there
are more environmental.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
In a way. I mean, you know, sometimes, like I
like shooting practice and stuff, I tend to shoot better
at longer distances sometimes than I do, say it, you know,
forty or thirty yards, because my expectations go up so
much more. So I I have less expectation at these
longer distances, and it seems like the site sits better

(24:32):
and shots break better. But shooting long distance does amplify
the mistakes. But you also have to be smart enough
to understand what those mistakes are. And then you also
have to be honest in those mistakes of why am
I missing? Is it because my movement is so bad?

(24:55):
Or is it because my tune is bad? Or is
it because I'm punching the release? You know, So there's
it will definitely show you some stuff, but you also
got to be smart enough to understand what it's showing
you to fix it, gotcha, But definitely, you know, the
longer you shoot the further distances. Everybody will say the
closer shots seem easier. I don't know. Yeah, they all

(25:19):
can mean something. So the more it means something, the
harder the shot is.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah. Yep, no, no, that was a tough question.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
And and you know it gets into the moral and
ethics of it, which, as you said, only the hunter
or the archer can can you answer that what's good
for them and what they should prepare for the day.
It's all on them the shot they decided to take
on a live animal.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, and so sometimes you know, sometimes the negative side
of that is shooting target wise at long distances can
give some guys some false hope, and there again it
kind of goes back into that moral thing of that
guy's decisions. But we all know, we all can agree

(26:00):
that the further the distance, more things can happen. That
animal can turn, that animal can take a step, the
wind can blow. There's just there's a lot of things
that can happen at longer shots.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, Well, thanks for jumping in as and answering those
Penalton questions and answers. Once again, if you guys have
questions for myself, for our guests, feel free to email
them to us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com,
or send us a message on social media. We'll do
our best to get them get them in here. So
now we're gonna jump into the conversation I wanted to have.

(26:36):
You know, and if you sit around a bow shop
long enough for if you cruise the internet for long enough,
it seems like everybody is trying to and buy their
way to be in a better shot, or buying their
way into more x's, I guess you could say on
the target. So I'm going to open this up. Is
there a way to spend money to become better or
is it truly in the mechanics of you know, your

(27:00):
shot or your practice or your mental you know side
of the game.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Best money spent is probably coaching, which of us never do. Equipment.
There's certain equipment I do definitely think that you can
purchase that can help releasing one of them.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Because can we dive into coach not to interrupt you,
let's dive into coaching a little bit. So like for
me as a guy that plays football, basketball, baseball, Like
in my mind, there's all this stuff I can coach
you on you There's so many different aspects like an
archery coach, like are they gonna you know, just is
it literally them watching you shoot and making corrections or

(27:45):
are they going to give you like are there are
there certain things you should be doing, like you had
mentioned earlier, when you practice, you should be practicing, you know,
on improving certain things. So like what does an archery
coach look like?

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, yeah, there's gonna be different levels of that of
what your expectations are as an archer. So if it's
like I am a brand new archer and I need
a coach to start me from the basics from my foot,
my stance to how I grip a bow, my posture,
my head alignment, my release alignment. There's that type of coach.

(28:20):
It's more of a form coach, and then there's more
of a coach for the mental side. After you've kind
of gotten that side down, then it kind of goes
into the mental side of things. So it depends on
what your expectation of being an archer is and what
were you are as an archer, So learning the good

(28:43):
fundamentals of proper draw lengths. The unfortunate thing is that
everybody on the internet is a coach, and every one
of them will tell you what you're doing wrong. And
I feel like a lot of these people like to
tell you what you're doing wrong, so that makes them
sound like they're educated and know what they're talking about.

(29:05):
If I can point out everything you're doing wrong. I've
never seen anybody really ever get on there and point
out all the good things someone's doing. And I think
a lot of it is because they really don't know.
And so it's always the same thing. Your drawings too long,
you're gripping the bow and you're punching the release. It's
the same always, over and over and over and over

(29:26):
So I think the other problem is there also is
a lot of archers that want to help other archers,
and so there's you can get overwhelmed with a lot
of information and sometimes it's good. But if I had
any advice to anybody is either find a coach, and
if you can't find a coach in your area, try
to go to some league nights and find a good

(29:48):
archer who has time and who is willing to maybe
help you. And stick with one person, one person, and
because you'll will get bombarded by ten other people telling
you something different at the end of the day, listen
to one person and then you're going to be so
much better off.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Gotcha, Okay, all right, I'll let you. I'll let you
keep rolling back to the equipment now, So the end.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Of the equipment side, I definitely think you know a
release on how a release functions goes back into that
mental side of shot execution too, So having having a
release that you are comfortable with. So a lot of

(30:34):
cheaper releases run on springs, so there there's a lot
more travel into the triggers. So if you are a
guy trying to learn how to do back tension and
pull through a shot you're feeling. You're feeling that trigger
starting to move, move, move, and every time that thing
is starting to move, that anxiety of the shot happening

(30:54):
starts doing increase where you get into a high quality released,
whether or not be an index released. Carter like Mike's
have sears that you actually engage a seer, which gives
you a trigger with no travel, and that's where most
of your thumb releases buttons are that way. They have

(31:16):
a seer that you engage, you cock it. You're setting
the hammer the seers, and then you can you can
set that tension to what feels good for your brain.
Some guys like a real heavy trigger, some guys like
a lighter trigger. You know, for me, it's kind of
that medium. I want to be not scared of touching
the barrel, but I want to know that I actually

(31:36):
have to pull on that or push on that barrel
to get it to fire. So a release definitely can
you can buy some of that in that. The next
thing would probably be an air arrest, because they are
arrest is something that's probably moving. I think where you
overspend definitely one hundred percent is on a site. I'll

(32:01):
get hate for this one. Probably I can't see spending
the dollars on a lot of the sites. I think
target wise, yes I can. I can justify some of
this stuff, but hunting wise, there's a lot of that
stuff is overrated for hunters. You know. For me personally,

(32:22):
I don't shoot past forty yards. I don't need a
lot of that stuff. It gives me something to point
with as long as it's sturdy, that's all I care about.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, I mean, some of these sites are eight hundred dollars.
They don't even range find for you. And then you
get the ones that do range find for you. I
don't even know where those are at anymore. But it's like, man,
it's just you know, crazy expensive. And you know, I
was humbled because I've got a movable site.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
So, our buddy Matt Schmidt shows up to my house
he wants to learn how to elk call one day,
and evidently he's going to teach me how to shoot.
I didn't know I was signed up for that, but like,
the guy shoots what was it seven or eight fixed pins?
He you know, he had a seven and then added
some other pins to it or something, and like, so
I'm out here trying to dial to the exact range,
and he's just out there, and I'm like, all right,
evidently this slider doesn't matter. You know, he's just and

(33:11):
and so it's kind of enlightening. And if you think
about it, we talked about it, as long as your
pin's not haloed, and there's not, you know, it's bright
and it's got enough fiber optic hanging out of it,
like it's literally just a fixed reference diameter. It's a
fixed diameter of a glow, like it's got some bright
light at a point zero one nine, or it's got
a bright light at point zero zero nine. As long

(33:32):
as that thing solid and doesn't I think you might
you might be willing to spend more on a site
as a hunter that you know, like, all right, it's
fairly durable, right, I.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Want to aluminum housing. I don't want plastics other than that.
Like for the last until someone stole my site, I
didn't have third access leveling on it. I didn't want it.
I didn't need it. I shoot two pins twenty forty
and it's also it's that gap for me twenty forty
on an ELK. Is that actually a range finder? It's

(34:01):
it's the back to the belly of an elk at
fifty yards. So if I'm at full draw and something
boogers and and I'm still panning over on that elk,
I can look at that gap of the pins and
I know if he's inside the shooting range or not,
and then by that I know where my hold is
with that forty yard pin. So I like to keep

(34:22):
it simple on that, you know, with Matt, with having
all those pins, but Matt's, you know, a world champion
pin shooter. It's where he really cut his teeth on
learning how to stack pins gap pins, and you know
he can. He can shoot all those pins. To me,
it's much too much in my sightline stuff, too confusing

(34:44):
to me.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
So so you know, then you've got like what I
would consider you know, your your site and your rest
seem to be like your two big accessories, and then
you've got like the minor accessories. You've got your stabilizers,
You've got these other like are those in my mind?
They're just a distance with a sentiment of weight, right,
And not to discredit any of these companies out here

(35:07):
making great stabilizers, but it's like, all right, I've got
a ten inch rod with four ounces of weight, or
I've got an eight inch odd with twelve you know,
whatever it is, or a sidebar or this or that,
like those are really just to set the shooter up
to minimalize movement and kind of balance that bow out correct.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yep, there's a lot of people that buy them because
they look cool. Back in the day, I mean, a
stabilizer kind of went to a dampening system. You know,
there were a lot of rubber, they weren't really much carbon,
They didn't really have much weight adjustability, and it was
more of it. It took vibration out of a bow,

(35:46):
and so people, you know, really took to having a
stabilizer and then they've transitioned over to more of just
a carbon rod and then the ability to add or
take off weight to the tip of it, and the
bows have gotten so dead in the hand that you know,

(36:07):
it's really not a damper and it and it shouldn't
be a dampner. It should be something to balance a
bow to slow the aim down. But at the end
of the day, they're they're most of your hunting bars
are kind of all the same. I mean, there's there's
not a lot of physical weight that we're putting on it.
So we're not really putting a lot of force on

(36:28):
that bar as far as if it's a soft carbon
or or a super stiff carbon. So there there's not
a whole lot of difference.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
So you think you can, you know you can. You
know your money can be well spent on a good
on a good rest and maybe you know not needed,
you know, as far as you know types of stabilizers,
maybe even types of site. So let's get into the
bow itself, like, is there is there a point where
there are bows that will help you shoot better? Or

(36:57):
is that really individualized and customized? It's like, you know,
brand x y Z may help me shoot better, Brand
x y Z might not help you shoot better? Or
are we to a point where technology and advancements are
all these these bows are all going to shoot from
the four hundred dollars entry level bow up to the
you know, two thousand dollars Carbon Deluxe.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, No, I mean there there is and there isn't
you know that to me?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Like some of.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Grips, grip angles, grip position in a bow is important
to me, CAM draw cycles is important to me. CAM
backwall is important to me, those those are those are
the big keys for me. Some of the bows are

(37:46):
definitely lighter or different material carbon you know, night I
just kind of chuckle when people say, you know, carbon
is is warmer to the touch? It is?

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Does it matter?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Buy a lot of hand warmers. So, you know, I
don't know on that. Uh, I don't feel like you do. Well.
I mean there are some bows that that will skimp
to safe cost where they start running a little bit
more polymer stuff into it, such as you know, maybe

(38:20):
a polymer limp pocket or you know, a polymer mods
and even that, you know, if I had a choice,
I would I would take aluminum over polymer. But I mean,
we build guns and stuff out of polymer, so I
think polymer. There's different grades of plastics, so some of

(38:40):
it's not terrible. But at the end of the day,
is a is a two thousand dollars bow gonna put
a bigger elk in front of you than a five
hundred dollars bow.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
No, yep.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So so I'm gonna boil this down to like an
extreme example. So if I took you know, the very
first time I had you set up a it was
an old Martin omen too, right.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
No, haven't been an omen that's a It was aza
on yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
So yeah, it was a three letter word, four letter
word sorry with a So. I brought a Martin ONZA
two down to Cory. So if I shot horrible with
a Martin on the two, is me?

Speaker 2 (39:20):
You know?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Fast forwarding twenty years in technology picking up you know,
Darton's newest bow or Matthew's newest bow or Prime's newest bow.
Am I gonna instantly shoot better?

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Going?

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Is technology moved that much within the bows or is it?

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Is it like no?

Speaker 1 (39:35):
And I know your answer to this is like you
should probably just practice with either one of them more.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Well, I mean, we we killed animals with all that
old stuff. Is it easier today? Yes? The bows are
easier to tune. We have more options to tune, We
have more arrows to tune with. We have better broad
edge to tune with. Everything has gotten better. String material
has gotten better. String material is not constantly moving on

(40:02):
those older bows. I mean, man, you were constantly chasing,
you know, the tune of that bow because it was
going in and out with timing. The cam systems were
pretty much you know, a two cam or a solo
cam problem with a solo cam when that string moved
the whole knocking point everything shifted. On a two cambo,
you know, the timing went out, so you had the

(40:24):
cams weren't in sync with each other, so you had
you know, bad aeroflight because of that. Today, with string
material has gotten much better, bows have gotten much easier,
more letoff, better holding the walls or firmer. So yes,
you would shoot better from a new bow today from
an old boat. But do you need to spend two

(40:46):
thousand dollars versus six seven hundred dollars? I hunted with
our mid price pointed bow. I love that bowt It's
a fun bow to shoot. Has our same cam. It
doesn't have all the tuning features, but I'm an experienced
archer of knowing how to tear a bow apart and
put it back together and make a bow, you know,

(41:08):
tune out to me, So that part wasn't an issue
for me. If I didn't know as much or have
access to a good pro shop. You know, a bow
that has some tunability features such as a lot of
the new bows today, then that's that that's probably good
money spent, gotcha?

Speaker 1 (41:27):
And then the external component that you know your arrow
you talked to hit on a little bit, you know
your arrows is you know there's people make seven five
three one like, are you know spending twice as much
on an one arrow versus an five? Or is does
that matter? Or ninety nine percent of us out there

(41:48):
not going to be able to see the difference between
where a five and a one hits.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Well. I mean a human hair is four thousands, so
when we talk in an arrow, that's an O three
to and oh one, that's half of the human hair
thickness of straightness differences. I don't think that we honestly
can shoot that. It is a feel good thing. It is.
It's one of those things where I think if you
have money and it's not financially hurting you, and it's

(42:17):
not financially taken away from tags and and other things
in your life, then you know, definitely buy some O ones.
I just went out and shut four white tails with
an O five straight arrow. Didn't They didn't die any
better or anything less. I don't I don't think. I

(42:40):
don't think the majority of us can out shoot it.
It is a feel good thing and a lot of
times now if you take your time. When you're building
an arrow, you know, you might you might end up
cutting both ends. You you don't get that choice, you know.
And with being a long draw, you're only maybe cutting
a half an inch or an inch off of an
arrow shaft. So for you, it probably makes a little

(43:01):
bit more sense to get a straighter arrow, because the
longer that arrow, the more that does come into play.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
You can agree or disagree.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Like we've got our buddy Bill vander Hayden from ironwill
On and and you know, he's an engineer like me,
but maybe even takes it even more so. He always said, well,
straightness is straightness, but once that arrow spins, the arrow
doesn't know what's straight anymore. So soon as it leaves
the bow and gets stabilized like this.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Well that's that's yeah, that's I'm glad that he says that,
because that's the thing we want. When we put an
arrow on a spinner, you're putting an object on an object.
When an arrow is in the air, it is not
touching anything. So when it's spinning, you're it's not it's
not like it is when it's on a roller and
you're watching movement. So the most important thing if if

(44:02):
I had to pick anything on an aerow consistency or
a factor would be spine consistency.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, because that's all going to be affected at the lawn.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Then then I would go then I would probably go straightness,
and then I would go grains accuracy on grains. Yeah,
I mean when we're talking, these guys talking worrying about
you know, one or two grains, and that's usually one
or two grains of dust. It doesn't take much for
a grain and you're sprinkling that over a twenty eight
to or a thirty inch piece of carbon, and even

(44:35):
if you put two or three grains in the nose
of it, you're probably not even going to notice that.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah, that that was his point, is that.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, the straightness, the spine consistency, some of that matters
on you know, take off. Once an arrow gets stabilized,
you're you know, at any given point in time, the
unstraight or the crooked side or you know, is it
a different point around the area, and it's it's balance,
it's self balancing, it's you know, it's like even though
it's straight. So his point, you know, and hopefully I'm

(45:02):
not getting it wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Well that's why That's why the the initial launch and
that's dictated off of the spine consistency, because that's going
to determine how much or how little and narrow initially
flexes when it launches from that bow. And so the
more consistent that is, the more consistent the starting point,

(45:25):
the more consistency end result is.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Okay, so we touched on arrows. You know, we touched
on you know, third axis on your sites. Maybe not necessarily,
you know, I don't need to be shooting from the
top of my roof down to a target that's you know,
twenty yards out straight below me, like some of that.
You know, if you're in steep mountainous stuff, would you know,
if you're in cliffy, you know, if we were back
on my goat hunt, would you would third access matter

(45:50):
there or not?

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Or are you still well?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
I mean, if you're shooting a machined aluminum riser and
a machine aluminum sit rod, it can't be that far
off and it's not going to move the impact of
the arrow by inches. It's maybe an inch depending on

(46:13):
the distance, but it's not it's not huge. So and
even though you do have a bow that is perfectly.
Third access level does not mean you shoot the bow
level yep. So a level is giving you a guidance,
just like a pen is giving you something to point with.

(46:33):
You're giving you something to somewhat get your bow level.
And if you can't the bow, it will move the
the arrow, impacting you know, an inch or so and so.
But that's extreme amounts. So even even having wind or
extreme side hill downhill stuff, you may have to overbubble

(46:57):
into that thing because the arrow is going to go
to that downhill side regardless. So so sometimes that level
is just a gauge on on where am I starting
and how much am I going to push into that
hill or pushed into the way. Yep.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, And you know talking with you, you know Matt Alwine,
you know Matt Schmidt. Guys that I've shot at these
hunting challenges with that are you know, way above average shooters.
You know, like you can set that on a jig,
but like you have to shoot that in, like that's
it gets you close, but then you're gonna have to
shoot it in the only reason that became a big
issue for me is because mine was messed with so
much that it wasn't close to even being accurate. And

(47:32):
then I was missing by seven or eight inches downhill
the opposite direction uphill on these step long distance shots,
and then realized that somebody had messed with it and
just got me way out of That's.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
The thing with with third axis means that you can adjust.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Which actually screwed me up, versus if it didn't have
the adjustability out of be right down the middle.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
If they would have just if they just would have
machined that thing ninety degrees over, it probably wasn't going
to be a huge deal. You know, unless you've got
such a turky grip and a turkey bow at full
draw that the boat, you know, really torqued in sideways
in your hand. Is the third axis going to be off?

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yep, we won't talk about that with me.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Well, we got kind of like bare poles of hands.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Let's get into accuracy and what's required. And we talked
about this a little bit before we even fired the
podcast up. Is that hunting first target accuracy. I think
when we talk about accuracy, it all ends up going
back to what target archers would want, right. Everybody wants
hit the center of the circle or the blue face target,
or you know the.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Ten X and then.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
What is really required for hunting accuracy? And when you
look at it through that lens, if you were to
re ask the question like can you spend money to
really make it matter?

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yes or no?

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Like I'm just curious, like where should a guy that's
only a guy or gal only concerned with hunting, Like
how do they find the accuracy that's needed? Or I'm
going to make the comment almost all modern equipment, we'll.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Get him there.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
And then you can you can either agree with or
go your own own direction on that answer.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, I mean the accuracy. Ye, I mean there's the
it's a pretty big kill zone now and there again
kind of a a bad topic is is you know,
shooting one in the guts, it's still the kill zone.
It's it's going to kill him. It's just that's not

(49:27):
where we want to be because it's it doesn't gives
us a better chance of finding the animal with blood
trails and and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
It's not as quick for the animal which we're now.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, but the problem is is that it is death.
It is it is you know, it is the kill zone.
It's going to kill that animal. So so realistically, the
kill zone is big. But yeah, it's not. It's not
like target archery. I mean, especially when you look at
Vegas and stuff, like what body turner does. I mean

(49:57):
he's shooting having to hit you know, a dime every time,
you know, and if he just barely misses that dime,
he can go home. Uh, that there's so many good
archers in the competition is so tight, you know, where
on an animal it's it's not that it's not that tight.

(50:20):
But we have other factors that come into play too.
I mean, our target moves, you know, our heart rate
can change differently, our physical you know, derman can change,
you know, whether or not we're exhausted, mentally tired from
hiking up hills and not getting any sleep for four

(50:41):
days in the wilderness. You know that different things can
come in to play to whether or not we're extremely active.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, and that's that's where I've always you know, maybe
it's just easier to do it, but you know, it
used to be a white paper play, you know, the
old school. They were maybe eight inches and and I
kind of as if you're in there, especially when I
started to stretch out distances, like all right, you know,
eighty one hundred, you know, just I would shoot those,
not necessarily hunt those, but like, all right, we're keeping

(51:10):
good enough accuracy, you know, if we needed a follow
up shot you know there, But and then I tightened
it up to that six inch and it just it's
the heck's on my target. But I've always just been
comfortable if I can hit that, like I'm doing well enough,
like I could realistically take a shot from from that distance,
and it's just one It's helped me from stand away

(51:32):
from target panic being too competitive, like overthinking all of this,
but in reality, something I would like to take hunting accuracy,
which are not directly related but maybe maybe more connected
than we'd like to believe. And you mentioned this earlier
is my ability to like know where the new ten
x is on the animal based on the angle, the

(51:53):
elevation difference, how I'm what vitals I'm going to hit
if the erro goes in there and comes out a
different spot is even more important than maybe the accuracy
at times like I don't care if you can hit
a one in circle at forty yards, if you don't
know where to put the arrow at this angle, I'll
take my skill set over your archery skill set any day, which,
like I said, they're not directly related, but accuracy, you

(52:16):
know what the bow versus like me almost not having
to think about it at times where this angle or
this arrow in the angle needs to go in is
maybe more important for for a hunting you know archer.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean you're you're right. I mean
on shot placement, in understanding the anatomy of the animal
that you're shooting, you know, and and all those different
angles they're and you know there again, there's there's so

(52:49):
many factors that come in to play that you know,
and none of it is guaranteed. I mean, you know,
it's like arrows will take different different directions. Some there
are some things that can help minimize, you know, the
exit side of an arrow I think is FOC. I

(53:09):
think FOC does help pull an arrow into a target
inshouad of getting shoved into the target. Yeah, And so
I think that exit side can get better with more
FOC penetrations. A whole other thing, I I that is
one I guess going back into equipment, that was one
thing we didn't touch on. I wouldn't I wouldn't skimp

(53:33):
on broadheads. And when I need skimp on broad heads
means buying something off of Amazon or you know, if
you're paying you know, fifteen nineteen dollars or something for
three or six broad heads.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, there's just that's not I mean just knowing what
we know, you know for manufacturing, Like, there's no way
those are heat treated, right, There's no way they were
sharpened right, because you just can't do it for that price.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Wait, consistency, straight, consistency, blade consistent, and see all those
different things that make every one of them, you know good.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
So yeah, not to not to diverge, we're getting ready
to close it up, but on the broadhead, like in
your opinion, you know, whitetail hunting like is there in
all answers as well, So I'm not putting you on
an island like you get a lot of the solid
non mechanicals versus mechanicals. Oh mechanicals showmb used no white

(54:27):
tail elk you should stay. You know, caught in contact
is better for penetration or keeping the air on the
anglet wants to go versus an expandable could deflect. Like
in your opinion, from what you've seen, you know you've
shot a lot of elk shot a lot of deer.
Is there any truth any of that or is it?
Are you just of the nature? Just shoot what you
shoot best, like in a high quality.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, it's got to be accurate that it's got to
be consistent number number one thing, uh sharp, Then you
kind of go into the failure rates, I guess of
of things. But you also look at wound channels. So

(55:07):
and you've killed enough animals too, and you've seen it.
Sometimes they bleed, sometimes they don't, and it's not a
broadhead issue. I don't believe it's a broadhead issue when
an animal doesn't bleed very good. I don't. I don't
blame abroad. It's just it is what it is. You
shoot enough of them and you'll see I've shot some
really bad shots and it's just like blood's everywhere, and

(55:30):
I've shot them with the same type of broadhead in
the better spot and they didn't bleed very good. So
I don't judge anything off that. And I'm I like expandables,
but I don't like expandables, you know. So so if
I was shooting white tails one hundred percent, no matter what,
I'd probably shoot it. I'd shoot expandable just it's the

(55:56):
biggest womb channel. And I think there's somebody that was
did a study that you know, lost animals off of
fixed heads versus expandables, and MCA or standard fixed heads
lost more animals than expandables. So I think marginal shots,

(56:18):
marginal shots can can be improved with a bigger cut,
you know.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
So yeah, yeah, I've always thought that overanalyzed. Like you know,
I'm shooting iron wheels, which has you know, a cut
on contact main blade and then small bleeder blades. But
like I overanalyzed, like at times, just if that arrow
at this certain instance was turned ninety degrees at that
point versus exactly that could be the difference on clipping
a heart or missing or what I'm even more concerned

(56:44):
about is on like a quartering animal. Well, I love
caught on contact, but if my blade is perfectly aligned
with like a rib bone, like big blades, versus if
it was turned ninety degrees and was going to like
point through them and get get you know, get going,
like some of.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
That's what concerns me.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
And I haven't had an issue yet, but the engineer
in me is over analyzing that stuff versus well, maybe
like an old muzzy tip would already be going in
a direction.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
The beautiful thing with a fixed head is if you
don't go through, you're still cutting, ripping, tearing, and causing
trauma inside that animal with maybe even more of expandable broadheads.

(57:30):
When they stop moving forward, the blades close back up.
If they don't go all the way through, and now
you're you're you're really not causing any more damage. You've
cut what you cut. And you can say the same
thing with shooting through an animal. You've cut what you cut.
If that person just did miss the artery, I mean

(57:54):
that you've cut what you cut. So every one of
them is different. I mean there's there's not a perfect situation.
But for me, if I'm shooting an lope, white tails,
mule deer, yeah I'd shoot an expandable heartbeat for me
because I'm like you, I call elk. A lot of
my elk or coming toward me and so they're either

(58:16):
a hard hard at me or I'm shooting them right
up through the front. But like I say, that's typically
ten to fifteen twenty yard shot type of thing, and
I don't want a big cut trying to get through neck,
hide and hair I want to cut on contact head
that penetrates.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Yep, yep, No, I'm in agreement on all of that. Well,
give us a quick rundown, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I you came out before my white tail hunt brought
me that new dart and sequel thirty five st squared?

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Did I get that all right?

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Which was? Which was? Which I like?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
And the few features we've alluded to it a little
bit like I've tried to become a student of the game,
but still don't wrench on my own bow. There were
some things that happened, you know, on this boat. Corey
can speak to him better than me. But we have
some tunable limp pockets, and for timing, we had the
ability to twist cables without going into the boat press,

(59:13):
which you know. We we got everything set up with
with field points found out.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
My broad if you remember, was my broad head was
hitting to the left? Correct?

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yes, I think, yeah, So we had broadheads were dialed
or no field points were dialed. Broadheads were shooting two
or three inches to the left. After we got everything
set up, and rather than put it back in the
press or make an adjust to the site or do
anything else, we were literally got an Alan wrench out.
I think it was one twist on on you know,
the adjustable limp pocket, and we brought the arrows together

(59:43):
and we're done. Which for me not having to run
back to a bow shop or not have to like
make little micro adjust to my rest and hope that
I don't screw this up completely. It was awesome getting
ready for a hunt, you know, to be able to
do that. And that was the problem I used to
run run into all the time before you know, I
run down Corey. It something my bow up. And then
like everybody is screwed the broadheads on ten days before season,

(01:00:05):
You're like, uh no, like you have to redo all
of this. And so I'll let Corey speak to some
of this technology and and uh you know some of
the things that dart and are doing. And then kind
of you know, some of these advance advancements that maybe
aren't all going into efficiency but you know, the efficiency
of the bow, but and the fuel of the bow,
but really going into the tunability of the bow seems
to be the biggest advancements you know coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, so the tunability on the new bow and stuff.
You know, when we tune a bow or you tune
a bow at the shop. Definitely, shooting through paper is
a snapshot of it, but it's not the telltale sign.
Especially when we start putting veins in the front with
a broadhead, so things can show up a little bit
more with with that. And so having the ability to

(01:00:48):
tweak some stuff at the range instead of having to
drive back to a shop and put a bow in
a press and or moving the rest like you say, uh,
it's it's nice features. So we came out with a
new tiny system that is in our yokes and it's
a it's a turn buckle, so it just it just turns.
It just puts or takes out twist of the cable

(01:01:11):
so it doesn't doesn't get any longer or shorter. So
it's not on a thread system, so we're not pulling
something different. We're actually just putting the twist and we
can micro do that on the timing. So that's really cool.
And and so then when we go into the what
everybody's calling the limb pocket, it's not necessarily like tuning

(01:01:32):
the limb pocket on on what we're doing. Other companies
will actually move a pocket. What we're doing is keeping
the pocket square and in this position, but we're actually
changing deflection numbers of a of a limb. So we've
got a little plug that we can put in the
left or the right limb and basically add right around

(01:01:57):
anywhere from you know, a half a pound to to
two and a half pounds to that limb, which makes
that limb stronger the other limb slightly weaker, and we
can flip flop that. So the cool thing on that
is that it keeps the limb pocket square and then
on the cam side of it, we're actually not moving
the cam left and right, because if you move the

(01:02:18):
cam left and right, then you're technically not shoving the
back of the arrow from the back of the arrow again,
so we keep everything square into the bow and just
do it off of limb deflections, which is pretty pretty slick.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was slick.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
And then I don't know, I was shooting here and
showed up in Kansas, so I give Corey a quick
call and once again over the phone, you know, just
making sure it's going in the right direction. I could
have just twisted and checked, but you know, I was
able to make in another adjustment. Why we were in
Kansas and kind of you know, quote unquote retune the
bow versus if I couldn't have, you know, had the
tools or the ability to fix some of this stuff

(01:02:53):
on the fly, I wouldn't have been very confident as
I was sitting in a tree, but you know, made
a few adjustments, shot back out to forty yards and
everything was flying perfect. So you know, once again, just
a testament to to making stuff easy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
For a dummy like me that wouldn't have been able
to fix that on my own.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
So how big a deer did you shoot?

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I haven't scored it yet. He's a Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
When I'm in Kansas, we call him ten pointers around here.
I think they'd be called like a five by five
or four point with I guards. So I killed a
good ten pointer, probably that mid fifties five ish. Yes, Yeah,
it's uh, we're we're spoiled back there, but uh, you know,
killed killed him on the very first sit an hour
into it, and then uh went on dough patrol after that,

(01:03:36):
and then decided I was tired of cutting up dose.
So then I don't if Randy listen this, he's gonna
be mad. But I was like trying to shoo him
away later on in the week, like just no, not really.
You know, there's lots of chores to do on a
on a big form like that, so we tried to
help around in Montana.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
We also have hunter Hunters for the hungry. So yeah,
but yeah, I shot four dos and like you say,
it's a lot of work after it's fun and all
of a sudden you're like, oh, man, I got a
lot of a lot of work ahead of me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was it was good. Any other thing,
anything else you new from Black You anything else you
want to talk about or yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
So we should be I don't know when this is
going to launch, but I think right around December tenth,
actually probably tomorrow. We should be getting in our all
our new graphics. We've got new veins that we're putting
on the arrows for freck Factory fletch. That will be
a two point five fusion X vein to have a

(01:04:35):
two inch vein, and we're spine indexing all the arrows,
the shafts all we'll have a laser index for the
stiff side of the arrow. New graphics, and then just
the course. You know, the one thing that Black Eagles
is known for is the super sortied where our spine
consistency is so consistent across the board on the arrows.

(01:04:57):
So yeah, other than that, it's pretty much the same,
same good stuff, and it's going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
A good year. No, I really appreciate you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
It's always good to catch up, even though now I
get to see it for half a day while we're
rushing to set a bow up, But always good to
catch up with you. And I just always liked your
perspective on you know, on on shooting and becoming better
and maybe you know, what the internet tells us we
should be doing versus what the reality. You know, we
should just be practicing more or working on certain things
and not just buying the newest and latest and greatest,

(01:05:28):
and it's not going to make you become a better shoot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Yeah, practice with a purpose, you know, figure out what
you're going to practice today. Why that's your grip angle,
your anchor point? Is it my aiming? Do practice aiming drills? Do?
You know? The biggest key? I think The other thing
that I get frustrated with is watching people who are
struggling with target panic and everybody tells them to buy

(01:05:51):
a back tension release. Back tension is a form of
a shot. It doesn't matter if you do it with
your bogger finger or you turn your hand upside down,
but you're still using your back to keep strong into
the shot and activate the trigger, whether not be an
index trigger like I say, or a button. But these
guys will go out and buy an expensive button and
then not learn how to properly shoot it, and their

(01:06:14):
their problems of punching the trigger is still there. They
just turned their hand upside down and they're three hundred
dollars more in debt. Yeap, So if you're gonna buy
a good release, find somebody to help you learn how
to shoot that release properly.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I like it. I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Well we'll end on that. Thanks for coming along, Corey.
Enjoy your your snowy winter in uh Montana, and I'll
enjoy our wet winter here in Washington.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Hey, id you saw that big buck that walked by
a way I did.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
That's not That's not a bad site. I've got a couple.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Hey, I got a couple of those in my yard
eating under the apple trees. So it's almost the same.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, almost.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
All right, take care of buddy. Wet's see you think?
But can fo