September 25, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of In Pursuit Rich sits down with renowned human performance scientist Andy Galpin to unpack the science of fueling for the hunt. Andy dives into cutting-edge strategies for optimizing nutrition, recovery, and endurance to conquer the demands of western hunting. Blending practical tips with high-performance insights, this episode delivers the tools you need to power up for the wild. Tune in for a dynamic mix of science, grit, and hunting wisdom that’ll elevate your game!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have a plan and be consistent.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We can adjust the playbook, but when the playbook is
different every single time, we have no idea of knowing
what worked, what didn't caused you to have the great day,
terrible day, and so forth. So pit kind of a
routine even prior to going out. Whether this is your
training and nutrition, your recovery, all of it, be consistent
and give it awack in the field and then come
(00:22):
back and let's make adjustments next time.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
But don't program hot.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I mean that I heard you talking about this about like,
don't do it out of shit all the time.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We don't want them out here. The stakes are real.
Effective preparation starts with fitness, but it requires so much more.
This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience, and skills needed
to be ready when it matters the most. Join me
Rich Browning as we apply the decades of wisdom I've
(00:54):
gained through training and competition to hunting in the back country.
This is In Pursuit, brought to you by Mayhem Hunt.
All Right, today, on in Pursuit, we've got doctor Andy
Gallpin Man. I'm honestly the nerd in me is pretty
(01:16):
fired up to talk to you about some human performance
stuff at Parker University. You've got I mean, you're doing
all kind of cutting edge. Bird will read off, you know,
the true all of his accolades. But meat Eater asked
me to do this. Yeah, well, I mean, heck, yeah,
we want people to know, you know, your credentials and
all that, so if we forget anything, let us know.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
But they didn't like yours.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I usually am not the most in depth with that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So yeah, so I mean today, Andy is super great
to have you on. But Andy gaplan world class exercise physiologists,
researcher and coach, work with top tier athletes, Olympians and
really just your deep expertise training elite performers.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
But you're here hopefully that we can learn a little
bit more about getting prepared for backcountry hunting, even what
that looks like beforehand, during, and maybe even after. Uh
So we can get into nutrition, we can get into workouts, fitness,
whatever you guys want from here.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Bird's biggest thing was he likes the fact that you
say you don't need to eat before you work out,
because it hurts his belly when he eats before he
works out.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
No, I have to eat, Oh, sorry, I thought you
have he has to eat. He says you shouldn't have to. However,
I get a little nauseous that you don't.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So I'm the opposite. I came years. I did intermittent
fasting for shoot seven eight years, and I I don't
intermittent fast anymore. But I do work out pretty fasted
in the mornings my first session. But we can. We
can dive straight into that. But Bird's biggest thing was like,
supposed to eat. I need I just said I need to.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, So well we can dive into all that, and
one of you is gonna leave happy in one of
you my.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Heck yeah yeah. So just man, start us. You know,
what sports do you play growing up? What kind of
led you down the path you are on currently?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, man, I grew up in the country. I still
live up in the country now. And what that means
is I played everything, yep. So if there was a
competitive sport around, it's not just me, but every kid
I grew up with, like this is what we did.
So I played even soccer as a little kid, but
all the way up into high school it was really baseball, basketball,
and football, and then I played college football after that
(03:36):
I competed in you know, weightlifting or Olympic weightlifting, and
then combat sports and jiu jitsu and stuff like that
after those things. So I did readly all of it.
And what really led me down the field of becoming
a human performance scientist was I had the perfect blend
of I was good but not that good, and that
(03:56):
gives you this perfect incentive right where not only the
culture that I grew up with, right being country kids,
it was always okay to lose like that, that happens.
You don't play sports if you can't handle losing, that's
just part of it. But it was never okay to
lose because you were lazy or unprepared or because you
didn't work hard. And so everyone I grew up with,
(04:18):
my parents ave been our coaches. The kids around me
were you know, cleaning horsetalls before school, they were compailing. Hey,
they were like always doing hustling on every aspect. So
it's just like an ethos I grew up with, which
was do everything, work as hard as you can, be
as prepared as possible. So transitioning into being an athlete,
you know, it was very good for my area, but
(04:41):
I wasn't a five star going to walk on play
at any Division I school kind of thing. And so
I knew that if I prepared well and trained right
and outworked everybody, I could have more success than my
skills would have allowed me to do. At the same time,
if I didn't do that right, that was I wasn't
going to play.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That was a difference.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Between you know, playing college football or not. That was
the difference between you know, being all conference or like
maybe playing some snaps when the game was kind of over.
That's how big of a deal this thing was for me.
And it wasn't out that was true. It didn't matter
because I knew that I could control that part of it.
And so initially getting the field was selfish, right, Like,
I just wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Be a better athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I wanted to beat these kids from Seattle, these kids
from Portland, these kids from you know that had speed
coaches and all this stuff growing up, and I'm like, like,
we had nothing, Like we're just doing whatever. So I
just wanted to know more and learn more. And you know,
as a kid, my parents were super supportive and they
always told us, you know, my sisters and my brother,
(05:46):
we don't care what you guys do. Professionally, you're just
not doing.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What we do.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And they just wanted us to have a better life,
an easier life, and so it wasn't about being better
or or that those things are important jobs, but like,
this is a hard life, and so they didn't care
if we were you know again, whatever we wanted to do,
just just find something that makes your life easier and
you'll be physically healthier when you grow up. So for me,
that was like, Okay, I have a chance to play
(06:11):
college football. I'm going to figure out how to train
and do everything as best as I possibly can so
that I can actually play and like have some success,
and at the same time then figure out how do
I make that into a career. Initially that was like,
you know, be a football coach, be a baseball coach,
and then I didn't want to do that, and then
it turned into okay, maybe strength conditioning. This is like
(06:32):
this emerging field where you can kind of be a coach.
I did that for a while, and I was like, man,
I don't for various reasons, this is not going to
be at farn It's so hard, yep, lifestyle wise, especially
when you get to that upper echelon. I mean, you're
there at five am, you're coming home at ten pm.
(06:52):
You're not getting you don't have days off your it's
just a brutal travel.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You got to travel with the teams. Yep, I did
that for a while.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Your head coach gets fired, you're gone.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You're gone. Yeah, no security, nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
You could be the best in the world. The new
a d comes in, you're.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Out on Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So I don't want to do any of that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And then the personality management stuff like I just didn't
want to be a babysitter for a bunch of cry babies,
and like when you're really at the elite level, it
can be like that, right, like oh yeah, for sure,
starting quarterback comes in and practice fifty x. When you're
getting paid, you're out. So I didn't want to deal
(07:31):
with any of that. So that was like, okay, can
you figure out a way how to be something different
but still kind of be in this field and let sports,
hey make you a living.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So that's how I got. That's what I did.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Heck care man, Yeah, that's awesome. I mean sounds a
lot like the way I grew up, where the way
Bird grew up. You know, we're in Cookeville were outside
of Nashville. If I didn't have anything to do or
or said I was bored, my parents were going to
find me something to do outside. Usually no video games.
I think I was like two or three video game
systems behind everybody that I still hate video games because
(08:06):
I'm terrible at them. But yeah, I was the same way.
I mean, I was a good athlete, not an amazing athlete,
and just kind of had to had to work to
get to where I was. That's really how I found
CrossFit as well. So it sounds like very similar paths
and in different areas, but very very similar and similar mindset.
Was strength coached for a little while too, and realized
(08:26):
pretty quick, yeah five am ten pm is not the best.
And yeah, Tennessee Tech, I was not paying nearly what
some of the higher schools are either, So yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
You actually got a paycheck.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well it was a glorified ga. You know. I was
an assistant. I think I made like a right at
a thousand bucks a month. It was right around the
time I started CrossFit, so I was, you know, competing.
I could still train quite a bit in between athletes
or whatever, so it was awesome. But yeah, definitely not
the route. You know, you think you wanted to go down,
and then all of a sudden you're like, man, maybe
not so yeah heck kiam. So now day to day
(09:02):
is what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, that's a great question because I considered like being
a full time strength coach wasn't for me, not only
because the hours, but I actually realized, like, I don't
like just training people all day every day, and so
then I dip my toe into science and I actually,
really this is the same thing. I don't want to
just be a scientist in a lab all day every day,
(09:25):
and so I kind of cultivated a career in which
I do a little bit of everything. So what my
day to day looks like this morning before we got started,
I'm working on our new human Performance center at Parker
right So we're building a sixty four thousand square foot
brand new human performance center in that Dallas area that's
the most innovative technology and systems in human performance in
(09:48):
the world. At the same time, I also am working
directly with a ton of professional athletes. I got two
UFC fires that'll be fighting in the next five weeks
or so, so I'm working on one of the girls
programs this morning, and then when we get done with this,
I'll hop into working on some stuff with our sleep
(10:09):
technology company and our blood work technology company.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So I'm bouncing in.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Between like directly coaching pro athletes and a bunch of
different sports, to building these technologies and companies, to running
our research in our lab, and then really everything in between.
So I'm doing a little bit of everything, which is
exactly how I like.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
It to be. Are all those things your favorite? Or
do you have one that is a specific kind of
above the others?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Man, that's a great question, but I actually I don't
because for whatever reason personality wise, if I have to
do the same thing all the time, like I don't
like it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
There's some days when I'm like I.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Just like there's only so many more research papers I
can read on a topic, right, and I'm just like
so tired of science.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I want to be in the.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Gym, like coaching practical application. And then there's sometimes and
I'm just like I can't handle like watching more warm ups,
like it's just like great, it was a good set,
Like I'm just.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I'm done, Yeah, I'm done. Yeah, man, it's.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Super dope, And like looking at the data science stuff
we're building and getting really far into the this like
new advanced stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And then sometimes it's the opposite.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I'm like, all right, I just want to go try
something and just like out, yeah, all right, black.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Bear in my trail cam this morning, So.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
There you go. Yeah, yeah, all right. Selfishly, what's your
what's your go to fitness? You know, like you a
little mix of everything? You like, you know, more cardio,
you like, more lifting, what's your what's your your favorite?
I guess are you similar to where it's like you
like to change it up?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
No, not really, man. Actually that's the point where like
strength training is for.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Sure my home days, Olympic lifting, powerlifting, all of it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
No, not really those anymore. Really it's sort of hard
to describe. You guys will understand this, but I'll try
to describe this way that the audience will get it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Bird won't, but yeah I will.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's it's more of.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Like, uh, very skill based technical challenge stuff. So the
way that that my coach program stuff for me, It'll
be like a hand leg opposite row to a different position, right,
And we're like I'm trying to get these really complicated
movement patterns re established and really built so that things
just feel great all the time. So I'm training super hard,
(12:30):
like I'll get to max heart rate, I'll get to
max fatigue on things. But it's like, I'm not powerlifting,
I'm not waightlifting, I'm not doing conditioning circuits to max effort. Like, well,
that stuff will all be part of the program, but
most of it is complicated, like classic squad to Spider
Man position with some load stuff, right, and you're just
like what is this?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Like, yeah, I'm trying to think that.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Those movements are You have no idea what I just said. Yeah,
it's these odd combinations of movement patterns I would never
program for myself, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now, is that more of the M M A style
like thinking or you just you just like to keep
the brain guessing.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, man, it's this combination of physical therapy world kind
of blended with more advanced I won't call more advanced,
but just alternative strength conditioning kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's that's advanced. Though. If you think about, you know
what those two movements you just set out, how do
you get from one of those positions to the other?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, it's super weird, right, And then how do you load.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
That yeah, and how I progress that yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And and like that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's where I like it a lot, because for years
I was that, like I was justightlifting or just squatting
downlifting bench whatever for for so many decades. At some
point you're just like, al right, like I still love that.
It's kind of nice to feel something different andhing.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You I said, not feeling as beat up with a
bell crashing you at all times?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, is that?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And then it's just like it'd be kind of nice
to feel my hips move in a different position.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, And I don't feel athletic when I do that
other stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
If that's like all I'm doing.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Yeah, it makes sense. So yeah, that's where you sit here.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And if I'm doing jiu jitsu more or if I'm
doing other stuff, then I feel like I'm moving in
more planes, non specific things, which is great. If that's
not the picture, then I'm like, okay, I'm only doing
these very sagital plane you know, symmetrical. Maybe it's one
leg or one arm, but you're still moving in really
(14:37):
consistent patterns, you.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Know, front, back, up down sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And so now it's kind of like, Okay, well, let
me mix in. Like I live in up in the mountains,
so like getting up and down verticals is pretty easy
easy to find for me, So I'll mixing sprinting up
and down in the hill. Then I have this like
odd strength training sort of thing I do, and then
I have a bike and I can just do like
ass in the pedal just like put in the hours
(15:04):
on the bike. We have this bran enhancement stuff that
we do that combines physical exertion. So I'll end up
doing a bunch of stuff on the VR headset physically
pretty high heart rate and then doing this with reaction
brain training the stuff that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So it's it's this weird like yeah, heck, yeah, yeah, man,
that sounds cool. You know, you get stuck down these
rabbit holes on Instagram or whatever watching videos of just
different movements like oh let me try that, you know,
like I'd never really yesterday I did like a you know,
it's as lame as it sounds, because you know, coming
from the CrossFit world, it's you know, you're Olympic lifting,
you're powerlifting, you're doing some of these things, but like
just even kickstand deadlifts with the X bar I was like, oh, yeah,
(15:43):
I should probably do some of that, you know, like
the older I've gotten, I'm like, oh, I need to
change up. Some of these movement patterns got me in
a hell. I've been doing crossmit for fifteen years, like
hard not just you know, recreationally would be.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Uh over, I'd probably call you recreation cross.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, recreational on that end, uh you know CrossFit
now maybe a little bit recreational. But yeah. So you know,
if you're getting ready for you know, say a hunt somewhere,
are you do you do much like West out West
backpacking style hunt or you know you just said you
got off a black bearing Canada.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah. All my hunting ever in my life is West
love it. I've never done deer stands. I've never done
a white tail.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
You know sit all either. Until last year.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
The first time ever actually was that that last black
bear hunt. We were we were on bait and in
stands a little bit, and so like that was a
whole new thing. It's actually funny, man, because I came
back and I was telling, uh, my, my wife and stuff.
I was like, dude, it's a different kind of hard
to sit wait thirteen hours, like got every day like
(16:55):
cam cam, and I would just like wake up and
just be like God, like the thing er is and
you all for five or six days. Dude, You're just
you're just wrecked bound up.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's awful.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, I felt terrible. So yeah, everything I've ever done
is is West West.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, rock for the most part.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
So if you're do you will you shift your training up,
you know, six eight weeks out if you are going
out west backpacking, I.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Will do it way earlier than that. I'm probably closer
to like sixteen weeks.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
What does what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Man? The biggest thing for me is I'm a lowlander, right,
Like I live at sea level. Basically, yep, we're up,
but we're talking a few hundred feet right, And then
if I go to depending on where we're at in
Idaho or Oregon or here in Washington, Montana, Wyoming, I
could easily find myself at nine thousand feet right. That's
(17:53):
a pretty common thing for us to do, depending on
what tags we drop. So that's a big change. Now
ten thousand feet is like that clip where it starts
to really matter. But nine thousand and then nine thousand
on a run like with a pack on and this
happened to me a couple of years ago. Opening morning,
we're mual deer hunting, and it was a really as
(18:13):
everyone in the West knows, mule deer have just got
really crushed in the last like three years out here.
It's really really tough. So we drew these tags. I
think we probably put in like fifteen preference points. So
we're like we And then then we talked to some
people out there called the biologists, and they're just like, well,
(18:34):
you know, we have ninety percent killed last winter eighty percent,
and like the numbers are down, but not a lot
of guys are coming out because of that. So you'll
probably have the mountain to yourself yep, yep. So there's
anything out there, like, you'll probably have first pick at it.
So I was like, okay, and just schedule wise, like
I don't have I don't have months to hunt a
(18:55):
year yep, yep. Same like I might get ten to
fourteen days total yep, Like that's my yearly a lot.
So I'm like, well, I'm gonna go all right. So
we went out there and we're at I think Bays Camp.
We're probably camping at nine thousand feet, but then we
would we were actually on horses, so we would ride
horses up start our day about ninety five ninety seven
(19:16):
hundred feet elevation, which is not crazy, maybe a little higher.
And then yeah, first morning, boone, we see some across
a ravine and I'm like, man, that's a shooter buck.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It wasn't crazy, but just a nice mature four point dear,
just like a good one probably again like one sixty,
like nothing at all. You cash in fifteen preference points
for But bro.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You're talking to somebody that's gonna pull a trigger on
anything if it's if it's legal, I'm gonna kill it.
So you don't have to. You don't have to do
that to me.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But we see this thing and it's a movement and
it's gonna go up and down on over and I
have to run the rim basically, and I have to
get on top where I can shoot horizontal before it
gets up and over.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I'm gonna lose it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And it was probably I mean, I don't know, but
probably fifteen hundred yards I had to go.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And that's like full pack on. Just got off the
horses and we're like BUGI.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Right, yep, And I mean, I'm run around that thing
and I don't get six hundred yards and I'm for
sure Max hartright like it's I know what Max is and.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
I'm like, I don't feel.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yep, this is not ending anytime soon. Run the rim
finally get over there and end up getting them, probably
got one hundred and seventy yards away, which with the
rifle is I don't need time to set up land
on that, Like I don't need to breathe much to them.
I made a good shot and put him down. But
(20:45):
that was a case where like that was a max
heart rate issue and then that was control your breath
and like make a good, safe, ethical shot yep. Where
in other times like ELK last couple of years, same
kind of area, a different area, but Elk are doing
much better. That was more of a tissue tolerance thing.
(21:07):
It was like, do you need to be moving for many,
many many hours a day and you're gonna go up
and down a bunch and you need to make sure
that you don't wake up on day two mm hmmm,
because this is gonna be five or six days of grind.
Totally so completely different things. So like the max heartwy stuff, Nope,
(21:28):
I can handle it, yep. Doing my whole life right,
like it's not as good as it used to be.
I can train for that, I can get better. But
I'm not like, I'm not uncomfortable. I'm not freaking out
mentally if if I can't breathe, right, but the ability
to wake up and be like my achielees is not
working today.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, it's blown up, like ye.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I have to prepare for that, right yeah, good example.
That just two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And you know Doug Larson, right, Barbara Yell? Yeah, yeah,
he and I went to college together. I don't know
if you guys know that, Okay, I know, yeah, so
he and I lived together, so I'm known him for
over twenty years.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We just summoned Mount Saint Helen's Okay, it's like eighty
five hundred feet. It's like, it's not crazy. But I
did zero preparation for that at all because I'm not
even preparing for hunting season and it's about forty five
hundred feet the elevation game yep, and that probably ten miles.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
That'll do it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Brother, That was a week ago, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Still messed up. What's what? What hurts the most besides
your soul.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Probably the calves.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Oh yeah, calves achilles.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and so that's what I mean of, like, it's
the tissue tolerance. It wasn't like I was out of breath,
Like the elevation game was fine, Like I could have
gone way fast around that yep.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
But it was the next day I woke up my
ankles and calves were so destroyed.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So that's what I mean when I'm like, I mean,
that's what I have to prepare for something like that,
which I did nothing for the Mountain Helens thing.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Just it's here in my backyard.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay, I need to handle that so I can do
a three or four five day one and not just
be completely.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Wrecked because of the up and downs.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I can get everything else in my training, but how
do you simulate three hours in boots up and down?
In this case, it was ten hours. So it's that
part that I have to train for and I can't
do that in six weeks.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, I think you know a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
That's That's one of the things that I think is neglect. Calves. Man,
calves get so blown up on me pretty quick, and
so you know, we push a lot of sled and
do that type of stuff. But yeah, you have to
start way out building up those tolerances because even now
that I've added a bunch of sled the last couple
of weeks, my achilles, my calves, I mean, I have
no meniscus left in my knee, so uh, you know,
(23:43):
I've got to work a lot on that, ye d
cell and stepping down from things or just that's honestly,
the thing that beats me up the most is the
eccentric coming downhill and yeah, yeah, that's what's got.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Me halfway down the mountain. My name is done and
I'm like done.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So it's actually funny, is my right me is the
one that's gone, And so of course I did everything.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
On my left left after my halfway so my.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
White quad wasn't sore at all, yep, and my left
one is again yah, and it's so happy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Man. Yeah, we got opposite legs, I'll give you my Yeah,
we're basically the same thing, but nothing on the left.
I'm looking at an ostiautomy right now. So yeah, but
biden time on that four.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
What are some things that you do to make sure
I know? Of course, like Rich said, he pushed a sled,
you starts that far out, but just practically leading up
to make sure day two, day three, day four, you're
still okay.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, okay, So you know what, I'm gonna skip past
some of the obvious stuff and go to some stuff
I didn't think about perfectly. And because I asked Doug
about this a couple of days ago, I'm like, man,
at you're castle star and he's like, no at all,
and I'm like damn. And he's like, he had just
done half Domee pretty recently, okay, and he prepared for
that pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
And he's like, dude, I just did a bunch of
caffes really, And I was like, boy, only takes thirty
years in this field, not right.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Yeah, yeah, Well, I don't do calf raises. Those are dumb.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I don't do bodybuilding stuff like it just I've never
been interested in it.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And it's like my excuse right to not do accessory
work that I should do.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah right, yep, yep, do as I say, not as
I do.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So I didn't do any calf races and he's like, dude,
it really helped. And I was like, oh my god,
So I.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Would recommend that, but like I would actually start with
really really long angle calf raiss.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, so leaning out, leaning into the wall or into
a rig something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, as much as you can do, I will. It's funny,
man I do him with all of our athletes.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Yeah, like you do many chib raises.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Not really, No, we can.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean that's fine if we have those issues knee issues,
maybe fine. But for the most part we'll do barefoot
yep a lot of times, like on a ball some
ford and get like a aggressive toe foot contraction. Yeah,
all the way up and you can really hammer those things.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You can do them super frequently.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And to your point, Rachel, like you can do really
aggressive angles, like really get as much flection.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Extension as you possibly can.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, because that's gonna be the problem you're in when
you're in those shoes.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, when you're outside those those issues. Yeap. Honestly, a
bunch of us have nerded up and we all wear
Vivo's barefoot shoe and man, I train everything in them,
and it helps my knee a ton, you know, strengthen
everything below and above the knee, you know, I, you know,
just I just because I'm talking about getting this osteotomy
and getting the MRI back and basically you know, severe
(26:38):
arthritis and all three compartments and uh, at some point
my a cl my body just absorbed it. No a
cl Uh. Yeah, there's no fibers left, and so you
know I have and I couldn't tell you when that happened,
and so you know you got to work around some
of those things, right.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I've had five surgeries on the same knee, and the
last one is at ploratory and they're just like.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, we're done.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Yeah, we're done, We're done.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah it's full replacement or yeah, we'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
How old.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I had that at? Thirty probably thirty five years old?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Okay, they're like you're done, and you're how old now?
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Forty two?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
All right, I'm thirty eight. Yeah. They were like, oh,
we can try a nasty out of me, and I'm
like maybe we'll see so yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So I'm holding out for for higher.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Upson's right, right? All right, So you know we've talked
the exercise side of stuff, but like, all right, a
guy gets in day one, day two and they've done
a ton of volume. At night, obviously your sleep's not
going to be the greatest, right, you know, anybody asks
me my highest you know, like what's the biggest thing
for recovery? I'm like, make sure you're eating enough and
make sure you're sleeping enough for me, you know, like
what's the goal? You know, like should I should I
(27:51):
cold punch that I saw it on. I'm like, if
you have those things, great, but best like best case
is eating sleep, right, And so what do you you know?
Are you more procarb guy? Are you more keto guy? Like,
let's we'll talk nutrition first. Obviously hydration is a huge
piece of that making sure you're getting those things. But
we'll talk nutrition first, and we'll talk I mean, sleep
(28:12):
is gonna be hard in the mountains.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, so he's talking about in preparation for or when
you're up there.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Let's just let's do both, just quick, maybe quick on both.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, so in preparation. Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
The reason I asset is because the answers are almost
pull their opposite Right, you want to maximize sleep and
you want to maximize nutritional quality when you're here anhydration,
but you want to be careful with over consuming fluids
when you're out and packing. Just the basic answer there
is like you're packing too much load if you're not
(28:45):
using bottles that you can filter and devices like that.
But anybody who's ever especially hunting, you don't want to
be peeing every forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It's a in fact, a funny story. We got back
to camp recently and James Cam's like a camera guy.
I was like, bro, I just I think I broke
a record, Like what He's like, I just held a
p for twelve hours. And I was like, well, there
was this monster, this like eight foot plus black bear,
(29:18):
and they had cam and almost got a shot at
him and he didn't and so then they waited days
for him to come back.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And James is like, I didn't want.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
To go pete in the area at all and like
potentially blow this hunt and who knows it actually matters
this giant monster. But he's like, I'm not even gonna
risk it because this is like a record breaking black bear.
So you don't want to be like doing that. It's
just a pain do that. So we actually be generally
men like kind of do what's what's needed hydration wise
(29:46):
when you're out there, but you want to prepare prior
to going out in the optimal conditions so that you're
as resilient as possible when you're in these suboptimal conditions. Right,
So when you're para like prior to going out, you
want to be at great body composition, you want to
(30:07):
be lean, right, we don't want to be doing all
those things. But when you're out there, it's the opposite,
Like all that is irrelevant, and you want to smash
calories all Yep, however you can, right, And I'll give
you two like very similar examples we recently worked with.
And I actually just had data open this morning on
Michael Easter. I don't know if you know Michael, but
(30:29):
he just did this cool thing where he went I
forget the numbers he did, but I think he did
nine hundred miles hike. It took him like six weeks
or something like that, so he just.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Just hyped all the way rup through.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Numbers may be off there, but it was something like
really some mile here. At the same time, I'm right
in the middle of Ross Edgeley, and Ross is swimming
around Iceland. Okay, this is a thousand I think it's
a thousand miles swim and it's going to take him
probably five months, jeez, and he's two months in or
something like this at this point, Wow, and it's freezing cold.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
And I mean, yeah, there's so many factors, all these things.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They're talking about, like pretty extreme angles of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And philosophically, it was the same approach in Ross's case.
He doesn't want to be lean. He's literally an ice
water for a little bit and needs to have a
little bit of insulation.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Right, Michael's up store, like, let's be lean as possible.
But in the event, we're getting as many calories hammer case,
like legit trying to get ten thousand a day, Michael,
the most high calorically dense stuff. Now you're you're literally
talking candy bars.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You're talking because.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I mean it's it's in and out.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
In and out right, you need everything there. So when
it comes to like fats carb sings like that's a
game to play at home.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right, see what everybody holds it out effects everybody's different,
you know, like there's not one stop shop. I mean
we know quality obviously and in perfect world is best.
But yeah, it's sounds very similar to when we compete, right,
you know, like we're trying to optimize when we're at home,
and then as soon as you get on the you know,
you you get off the plane to wherever you're at,
it's like, all right, give me some gummies, some nerd clusters, whatever.
(32:19):
I got to get to get some sugar. And now
you know, I've done Leadville the last two years and
you know, and it's it's what somebody said it to
me was, you're basically when you're doing an endurance test,
it's an eating competition, right. You gotta you gotta stay
ahead of that curve because if you fall behind, you're done.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We had I had a guy named Jordie Sullivan on
my show, and Jordi was a dietitian for Ned Brockman
when he did the thousand mile run.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh and it's dope.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Jordi went through everything Ned. I think Ned did this
on a track.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
By the way, God, oh oh.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Add right there is that hurts me. I think that's
harder than the actual physical side of it. Just on.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So Jordi had everything down in terms of everything from
calories to macros to electrolyzed to sodium to fluid, all
this stuff, and he goes through it in detail. But
the point of it is, yeah, man, like it's about
like you have to stay ahead because if you fall behind,
it's you're done.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
You're not catching up when you're that physically active the
whole time. So yet no, I agree with one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
So get ahead, you know, play with your your macros
as you see fit. I generally look the rub with
fat is fat is great because it gives you more
calories a pre density. Right, And so when you pack
it out there, and this is when the old trail
mixed stuff falls in. Right, you have a handful of
nuts as an example, and it feels like a handful
(33:51):
in your stomach.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But you could get five hundred calories.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yep, Like a handful of that apple is like, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Just not much.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It's mostly water.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
You're gonna get you need to eat five apples. Yeah,
Like you're just not gonna get it there.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So from like a packing in your pack to sitting
on your stomach, And depending on what kind of hunting
you're doing. If you're doing like September elk or something
and it's hot out, sometimes it's.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Hard to eat a lot during the day.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this is when some of these like quote unquote
lowercality calorie foods or higher fat foods can help you
just get a lot. I mean it's hard to get
a lot of calories with beef jerky.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Yeah, this is super hard to do it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
So you play a combination of those games. And depending
on how long your your trip is, things like protein
matter or don't at all. Right, if you're out there
for four or five days, like protein content doesn't matter. Yeah,
if it makes your stomach set a little bit better
or feel it fine, if you're out for thirteen, fifteen,
twenty one day, then you can probably should start taking
(34:58):
attention to protein a little bit. But from those guys,
get protein in as you feel good, as you you know,
as you like it to taste and stuff. But really
this is a total calorie game. You're split between carbs
and fat. I don't know how much difference at Actually,
In fact, I was just with boy I'm name.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Dropping like crazy right now for it.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I was at rich Rules three or four days ago
and we were talking about this exact same thing, and
he's like, man, like, I just don't know how big
of a deal carbs are versus fat like in these events, yeah,
all Like, I just because we don't have a lot
of data on people doing stuff like this, so scientifically,
I don't have a good answer. This is now coming
(35:42):
around in like empirical and practical stuff and what people
are saying totally how you feel, how you feel?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah, and you need to test that, you know, you
need to test that regularly. You know, we do throughout
the year, We'll do a couple of twenty four hour events,
you know, maybe a partner relay or something like that.
But man, I you know mentally they something to be
said about it, but physically you're like, all right, hey,
what happens. You know, we did a twenty four hour
mountain bike relay four people and yeah, man, you go
(36:08):
for forty minutes and then you're off for hour forty hour,
two hours and then you got to get right back on.
So man, it's it's you know, for me, somebody who
loves this stuff is like you nerd out on it.
You're like, all right, let me try eating X and
drinking X and how do I feel on that last ride?
How are my times? And that type of thing. Man,
I you know, from you know, you're studying the whole time,
(36:28):
and so yeah, I think you've got to do those
things every once in a while in the off season
to figure out how you're gonna respond in the season.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I mean, if you're talking about people that we directly
work with and coach, we're.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Tracking every everything. You have extensive data. We run, really
advanced sleep tracking technologies, really advanced blood work stuff like
we know what's going on in physiology. If you don't
have any of that. One really practical piece of advice
I gave somebody is when you're out for multiple days,
(37:01):
the biggest problem you're honestly going to run into outside
of your joints to something sore is your gi And
so when you go from eating you know this this
way at home, and then you get up there and
now you're eating candy bars all day, you're gonna get
either diarrhea or tremendous constipation. And so the advice there
(37:23):
is saying like a lot of times there'll be just
so much discomfort because you're just like, man, I haven't
pooped in.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Three days, Like what is going on here? This is awful.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
If you're in one of these like events like leadbill
or something like that, this is going to be just
like constantly consuming carbohydrates for the most part, and in
a form that you don't usually take them, in a
volume way higher than.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
You used to.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yep, this is gonna be bubble guts, this is gonna
be I just can't anything else anymore. Like I can't
drink and stuff anymore. I'm losing palatability. So when I
say g I stuff, I think it's it's kind of
all these combinations of things. So the practical piece advice
would be one, try to have a standard playbook, right,
(38:07):
I take four of these and two of these and
three of this, and then like, try to be consistent
every day. Give your gi a chance to go, Okay,
this is what's happening at this time, yep, and give it.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Try to standardize it once you get.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
There, standardize it and try to make it as close
to your normal routine foods as you possibly can and
normal times, like all that stuff. That's going to give
you the least You still may be in trouble, but
that will give you the least amount of problems because
you don't want to be stopping four times a day
to you know, take your gear off, or again sitting
(38:45):
there being like man, I need it stomach rock right now,
because I can't be a business going there. So that
that will help a lot of people just like get
a consistent plan. I eat the same thing if you can,
or over every day at the same times. After a
couple of your stomach will adjust a little bit and
you'll feel cool all right.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
And then as far as sleep goes, obviously it's not
going to be optimal in the field. So a couple
tips leading up to optimizing is, you know, consistent sleep
and wake times, dark room, cool room, anything else major.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I mean sleep at home is all about precision.
I mean there's all the little basic stuff like you mentioned. Sure,
that's that's like basical sleep hygiene up. But what we
actually do is we have technology where we can run
full clinical grade medical sleep studies from people in their
own house, and so we can do that now it's
(39:44):
actually more advanced technology than you would see any sleep possible.
We run that on people even if they don't you know,
have huge sleep disorders or don't think they have one,
because the vast majority of sleep disorders are undiagnosed. If
you're fact I do this all the time. If you're
that guy in hunting camp who's like scaring off all
(40:04):
the bears at night because you're snoring, So yeah, you
have a sleep disorder. Like that is snoring, even like
mile storing is not behind right, it's not a guarantee
sleep disorder, but it is a problem. And so we
will run these sets on people. It's pretty easy, and
from there we can give really precise, simple fixes. This
(40:29):
could be something as simple as changing your pillow, could
be way more advanced, like ten weeks of what's called
cognitive behavioral therapy or six weeks of tongue exercises you
have to do real or we might have something that
we see in the environment in your bedroom dand or
(40:52):
Paul and allergens like it could be big, too small,
But the reality of it is when you have precision
like that, we can get people really advanced sleep solutions
and they sleep a whole lot better. So then they
go into those trips not just already trashed, because when
you get out in the field, it's like, Okay, who knows.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
What you're sleeping on or what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
You're probably not gonna sleep anyways, just because you're so
excited and namped up. And I mean, I remember a
couple of years ago, I was on a cot and
we were camping, was there was not a flat spot
in the mountain I was, but I was like forty
five sliding off.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
There's no like.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
But you're fine because you didn't walk into it.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Sleep trap yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And so manage the best you possibly can in the field.
And that's that's the different set of answers. But really
really spend the time to make sure you're sleeping. Well,
there's actually excellent research on what's called sleep enhancement stuff,
and so sleep enhancement or getting ahead of sleep. There's
probably been thirty plus papers studies that have been published now,
(42:05):
specifically in military groups looking at this stuff. And so
what we're talking about here is when you go into
situations of known sleep deprivation. Again, this mostly research comes
out of military yep. And the testing here is things
like shooting accuracy, So very relevant toward to the people
we're talking about now. When you get in those sick
(42:26):
deferation situations, we know you're going to shoot less accurately,
your decision making will be worse, so on and so forth. Great,
but if you can batch or extend your sleep ahead
of time, the amount of accuracy and decision making that
you will lose during that sleep deprivation is significantly reduced.
By extending sleep prior to this event. Now, in the
(42:49):
case of the military, depending on the groups we're working with,
they don't always get noticed, right, But in this case,
you know you're hunting trek, you know yet you know
your dates. And this research has been done from as
little as three days of extending sleep or sleep banking
is what you hear.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
This called extension of banking. Yeah, only up to six
to eight weeks.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And the amount of extra sleep you get per night
can be as little as forty five minutes per night,
up to ninety minutes extra per night. And so what
I'll say is, like, hey, the week before, give me
an extra hour of sleep per night. Yeah, like aim,
that is our target. And if you do that, you
(43:32):
will not only probably feel a lot better, even if
you don't feel any better, Because research is also clear
with smiles short term sleep deprivation, your perception will not
match your cognitive output. That's what that means is you
will perform cognitively, really poorly. In fact, six hours a
night of sleep will you'll have a cognitive performance equiebent
(43:53):
to forty eight hours of consecutive awakening events, but you
will have zero subjective awareness of.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
That so you won't really and you will think I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
I'm actually not that bad, and if we put you
on a sharp shooting test, you would perform.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
And so that's what I'm like, dude and invest in
and but the problem is everybody like goes, I'm gonna
be out of town for a week, so I gotta
go all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Done and ye stress, stress about whatever got up, family time, yep.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
All of that right, So I get it. I do
the same thing. Go into a sleeping hunting.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Trip is like surprise.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
But if you can in the three days to as
long as you possibly can, extending your sleep as much
as you possibly can, I will make a big deal,
a big difference. Then you just you just get through
it and be resilient, you know, on the trip.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Cool for me, it's just super hard to stay hydrated
enough and get enough sleep good because I have to
wake up like six times the night.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, by drink anything past seven o'clock at night. I
pissed three times a night.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You shouldn't actually be doing that, I trust me. Yeah,
we shouldn get there.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
But it's actually sort of a funny point too, because
when you're out and you get five hours asleep or something,
and then you get up twice to take a leak.
Speaker 5 (45:13):
You're like three hours, Yeah, you're three hours.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
That's why I actually like generally kind of recommend being
a little bit under hydrated. Yeah on those so you
can get a little better sleep and you know time. Yeah,
but yeah, getting back to camp and then shugging two
liters of water.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah not the not not the best probably, or the
caffeine and beta that you're taking in at five six
o'clock getting hyped up for that bull you know it's
about to bugle. That's not great either out there.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, I don't do that at all. Oh really from
that man?
Speaker 5 (45:45):
Yeah? Yeah we could.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Man, I could sit here pick your brain all day long,
but we want to be uh respectful to your time.
If you had one blanket, I know there's we could
give thousands a piece of advice, but one, one step,
one actionable thing that people could take away. What you got.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
The kind of a theme we've had today, and I'll
say it a little bit differently, is you will have
more success when you minimize varias. Right, So whether this
is kind of try to eat the same thing, it's
just like you do with your shot. Right, you have
your routine, your you do a B and C, your stock,
your whatever. Do the same thing with this type of
(46:28):
preparation and just try to even if that playbook isn't perfect,
have a plan, have a plan, and be consistent. We
can adjust the playbook, but when the playbook is different
every single time, we have no idea of knowing what worked,
what didn't, what caused you to have the great day,
a terrible day.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
So and forth.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So pick kind of a routine even prior to going out,
whether this is your training and nutrition, your recovery, all
of it. Be consistent and give it a whack in
the field and then come back and let's make adjustments
next time.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
But don't program hot. I mean, I heard you talking
about all the time. We don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
We don't know what. Yeah, if we can control as
many amount of variables as we can, we can pinpoint
one maybe change something that we feel like, oh, that
wasn't it. But if we don't have a baseline or
have something to test, man, I love that. That's awesome.
You got anything else, bird?
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Yeah, Well, just listen to you in the past. I
know you have talked just about like kind of the
trial and error of everything. And that's kind of what
you're talking about, because like things that we've said before
is even adjusture training times, things like that, you know,
leading up for I always work out late in the afternoon,
so like in your if you're at camp, sometimes it's
(47:40):
tough to get my bodies just up and then because
the first thing, you're right up a mountain, you know
what i mean. So it's helped leading up to wake
up during the dark, get to the gym, put on
a pack, get on the StairMaster, put a push a
sled during that time, just to lead up because when
you're there and every things deprived and it just it's
(48:01):
more second and Nate, you know, it's more kind of
just it's in my brain more. That's like this is
just what I've always done type deal. Then it's totally different.
My body's just in shock.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, physiology is tremendous at pattern recognition. Pattern recognition foresure,
and you know, we'll I'll give you guys a little
bit of a bonus here, but going to your eating
and before your workout or after your workout.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Thing, right we go here, we go. Yeah, it's pattern recognition, right,
like rich.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
If your body figured out for a long time, we're
not gonna fuel before we're going to train, it got
fine with it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
If it's the opposite, it's fine with it.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
What was gonna throw you off is if you're used
to eating and then you don't eat. If you're not
used to eating and then you eat, both of those
are going to be bad.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
It can do. You can do do the way.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We actually just published a study out of our lab
on air emittent fasting and training and highly trained people
who are progressively overloading, like training really hard.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It can go find it away five Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Yeah. I did it for years, man, and I loved it.
And then it just got to the point where I
couldn't get enough calories in that eight hour window. So
you know, I started adding a little small, you know,
protein shake and a bagel or a protein shake and
some fruit after you know, a little session, and then
you know, I've kind of stuck with that. So it's
a quasi intermit in fasting. But I just feel great,
no food, working out first thing in the morning. I
(49:25):
just I like it.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
And I have we have some athletes who are the
opposite world record holding athletes, and they either have different
chronotypes so that they're just not going to get up
in the morning, or even if they do, like they
just want a huge breakfast and fuel for the day.
And I think we have enough empirical evidence and we
definitely have enough signs of the evidence to say either
(49:48):
of these approaches whatever works and work. If you're like
reasonably consistent, you just want to be the guy who,
like you know, doesn't have breakfast today, breakfast tomorrow, and
then like you wonder why you have these energy crashes
and lulls. You feel like your system doesn't know what's
going on. And we want to be resilient at all
times for sure, if we don't want to be precious
(50:10):
and a liability, and like you don't want to be like, oh,
I didn't have my breakfast today. I can't, I can't.
Speaker 5 (50:16):
I can't climb that mountain, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I don't want Yeah, I'm leaving you, like.
Speaker 5 (50:22):
We'll do that, We'll leave you.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah. But if you know you got to get up
at three and get.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Up the mountain, then you're not going to like some
of your trambled legs and toast, you should be able
to still perform yeah, but at the same time, you know,
if your probody performs better my way, it's totally farm there.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
There's you have options either way.
Speaker 5 (50:43):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Uh yeah, one just one last question, I guess, but
really for both of you, just the importance or difference
what's needed what's not needed. Just I think one of
the big tensions, even like people on the internet whatever,
it's just like the importance of muscle size and doing
something like this compared to maybe I don't need to
(51:05):
do that, I just need to do Zone two training
the whole time, compared to okay, well you need some
kind of like explosiveness too to be able to do
some of this stuff. Just to me, you need it,
you need it all right, But then some people are
just like, ah, that's not me. I'm just going to
put on a pack Zone two for an hour. But
maybe it comes to that pack out or something else
(51:26):
where you need that other stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Just yeah, well, I mean I think I don't know.
Twenty years across it has made this answer pretty clear.
Speaker 5 (51:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, you want to be pretty well rounded and lots
of volume over multiple days. I wouldn't do fifty hours
of cycling. I wouldn't do powerlifting.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
Either yep, all of it.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I mean, it's a.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Pretty easy answer. I guess a little bit less tongue
in cheek would be, it depends on your own personal
what I call defenders. Right, So someone like me, I
don't need any power or strength training prior to getting
preparation for these things. I will never be limited by
my leg strength.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
You don't have those holes. Yep, you don't have those holes.
You have that background, your body knows you're that type
of athlete. Those are you muscle fibers.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
And I've literally biops biopsy thousands of people. I've been
biopsied almost forty times personally.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Gosh literally no, right, I've never been biopsied.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
So there we go.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Man, you know how many times people asked me to
biopsy you over my career.
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean,
I I've got the extra science background. I would be
interesting because everybody's like, are you more type one, type two,
Type A, type B whatever. I'm like, I would say A,
but I'm not one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Sure you're You're definitely fast pitched, yeah, for sure, yeah
you are. For but you have other.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
Yeah, I've got some weird skills to recover. Pity some
other crossfitters that are not that way, right, Yeah sure.
In general though, if you're doing decent acrossfit, you're very happy.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
We've got to have some some type two for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (53:10):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
So the opposite, it's like for me, I need to
do almost exclusively. It doesn't matter z own one zone
two zone like that's almost all nonsense.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
In general for health and for everything else.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Like it's I don't give a shit about your zone,
but I need to do way more volume, way more
tissue tolerance. That's all I always do it, Like my
joints and soft tissue need to just get used to pounding, pounding,
so rucking and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
It actually makes a big difference for me.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Other folks, if you're that other side, you ran across
country as a kid, you're up in the mountains all
the time, you're you're a cowboy, or you're a guide
or something, you probably need zero more minutes of that
stuff and would need to do exclusively powerlifting yep, or exclusively.
You know, I wouldn't necessarily argue tomic weightlifting, but you
(54:05):
get the point. Like, probably some plow metrics. I don't
even know if I would argue interval stuff. You probably
don't need that at all either. You could certainly do
it just benefit. But if we're like saying, all your
stuff in, give me three days a week, two days
a week, lift low volume, really high quality, pure strength stuff,
(54:28):
and you'll probably notice a significant difference getting up and.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Down scrambles and and.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
They're because exactly like I said, Rich like, you're just
not You're you're very deficient in that stuff. Muscant endurance
is high, and robo capacity is probably high enough so
and so forth right there, but you just don't you
don't have any horsepower in those So the answer could
be a combination of both, depending on your background.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Great, man, I could sit here and nerd out on
this all day, but we are at an hour, so man,
I appreciate it. And once again, if your schedule ever
allows it, or if we were make it out to you, Man,
I'd love to sit and talk and you know, throw
out different ideas and try some of those Cossack squad
to spider stretch, spider Man stretch. I'm really intrigued. Actually,
(55:17):
I could do it on my right side, my left knee.
I don't think I could do it, you know. It's
I'm extremely limited in the flexion of that knee.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, no, I hear man. I have whatever. Man, I'm
down to do anything. I'd love to get together sometime.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
Cool, let's do it, man. I appreciate it again. Thank you.
Have a plan and be consistent.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We can adjust the playbook, but when the playbook is
different every single time, we have no idea of knowing
what worked, what didn't caused you to have the great day,
terrible day, and so forth. So pit kind of a
routine even prior to going out. Whether this is your
training and nutrition, your recovery, all of it, be consistent
and give it awack in the field and then come
(00:22):
back and let's make adjustments next time.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
But don't program hot.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I mean that I heard you talking about this about like,
don't do it out of shit all the time.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We don't want them out here. The stakes are real.
Effective preparation starts with fitness, but it requires so much more.
This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience, and skills needed
to be ready when it matters the most. Join me
Rich Browning as we apply the decades of wisdom I've
(00:54):
gained through training and competition to hunting in the back country.
This is In Pursuit, brought to you by Mayhem Hunt.
All Right, today, on in Pursuit, we've got doctor Andy
Gallpin Man. I'm honestly the nerd in me is pretty
(01:16):
fired up to talk to you about some human performance
stuff at Parker University. You've got I mean, you're doing
all kind of cutting edge. Bird will read off, you know,
the true all of his accolades. But meat Eater asked
me to do this. Yeah, well, I mean, heck, yeah,
we want people to know, you know, your credentials and
all that, so if we forget anything, let us know.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
But they didn't like yours.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I usually am not the most in depth with that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So yeah, so I mean today, Andy is super great
to have you on. But Andy gaplan world class exercise physiologists,
researcher and coach, work with top tier athletes, Olympians and
really just your deep expertise training elite performers.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
But you're here hopefully that we can learn a little
bit more about getting prepared for backcountry hunting, even what
that looks like beforehand, during, and maybe even after. Uh
So we can get into nutrition, we can get into workouts, fitness,
whatever you guys want from here.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Bird's biggest thing was he likes the fact that you
say you don't need to eat before you work out,
because it hurts his belly when he eats before he
works out.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
No, I have to eat, Oh, sorry, I thought you
have he has to eat. He says you shouldn't have to. However,
I get a little nauseous that you don't.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So I'm the opposite. I came years. I did intermittent
fasting for shoot seven eight years, and I I don't
intermittent fast anymore. But I do work out pretty fasted
in the mornings my first session. But we can. We
can dive straight into that. But Bird's biggest thing was like,
supposed to eat. I need I just said I need to.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, So well we can dive into all that, and
one of you is gonna leave happy in one of
you my.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Heck yeah yeah. So just man, start us. You know,
what sports do you play growing up? What kind of
led you down the path you are on currently?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, man, I grew up in the country. I still
live up in the country now. And what that means
is I played everything, yep. So if there was a
competitive sport around, it's not just me, but every kid
I grew up with, like this is what we did.
So I played even soccer as a little kid, but
all the way up into high school it was really baseball, basketball,
and football, and then I played college football after that
(03:36):
I competed in you know, weightlifting or Olympic weightlifting, and
then combat sports and jiu jitsu and stuff like that
after those things. So I did readly all of it.
And what really led me down the field of becoming
a human performance scientist was I had the perfect blend
of I was good but not that good, and that
(03:56):
gives you this perfect incentive right where not only the
culture that I grew up with, right being country kids,
it was always okay to lose like that, that happens.
You don't play sports if you can't handle losing, that's
just part of it. But it was never okay to
lose because you were lazy or unprepared or because you
didn't work hard. And so everyone I grew up with,
(04:18):
my parents ave been our coaches. The kids around me
were you know, cleaning horsetalls before school, they were compailing. Hey,
they were like always doing hustling on every aspect. So
it's just like an ethos I grew up with, which
was do everything, work as hard as you can, be
as prepared as possible. So transitioning into being an athlete,
you know, it was very good for my area, but
(04:41):
I wasn't a five star going to walk on play
at any Division I school kind of thing. And so
I knew that if I prepared well and trained right
and outworked everybody, I could have more success than my
skills would have allowed me to do. At the same time,
if I didn't do that right, that was I wasn't
going to play.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That was a difference.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Between you know, playing college football or not. That was
the difference between you know, being all conference or like
maybe playing some snaps when the game was kind of over.
That's how big of a deal this thing was for me.
And it wasn't out that was true. It didn't matter
because I knew that I could control that part of it.
And so initially getting the field was selfish, right, Like,
I just wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Be a better athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I wanted to beat these kids from Seattle, these kids
from Portland, these kids from you know that had speed
coaches and all this stuff growing up, and I'm like, like,
we had nothing, Like we're just doing whatever. So I
just wanted to know more and learn more. And you know,
as a kid, my parents were super supportive and they
always told us, you know, my sisters and my brother,
(05:46):
we don't care what you guys do. Professionally, you're just
not doing.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What we do.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And they just wanted us to have a better life,
an easier life, and so it wasn't about being better
or or that those things are important jobs, but like,
this is a hard life, and so they didn't care
if we were you know again, whatever we wanted to do,
just just find something that makes your life easier and
you'll be physically healthier when you grow up. So for me,
that was like, Okay, I have a chance to play
(06:11):
college football. I'm going to figure out how to train
and do everything as best as I possibly can so
that I can actually play and like have some success,
and at the same time then figure out how do
I make that into a career. Initially that was like,
you know, be a football coach, be a baseball coach,
and then I didn't want to do that, and then
it turned into okay, maybe strength conditioning. This is like
(06:32):
this emerging field where you can kind of be a coach.
I did that for a while, and I was like, man,
I don't for various reasons, this is not going to
be at farn It's so hard, yep, lifestyle wise, especially
when you get to that upper echelon. I mean, you're
there at five am, you're coming home at ten pm.
(06:52):
You're not getting you don't have days off your it's
just a brutal travel.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You got to travel with the teams. Yep, I did
that for a while.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Your head coach gets fired, you're gone.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You're gone. Yeah, no security, nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
You could be the best in the world. The new
a d comes in, you're.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Out on Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So I don't want to do any of that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And then the personality management stuff like I just didn't
want to be a babysitter for a bunch of cry babies,
and like when you're really at the elite level, it
can be like that, right, like oh yeah, for sure,
starting quarterback comes in and practice fifty x. When you're
getting paid, you're out. So I didn't want to deal
(07:31):
with any of that. So that was like, okay, can
you figure out a way how to be something different
but still kind of be in this field and let sports,
hey make you a living.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So that's how I got. That's what I did.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Heck care man, Yeah, that's awesome. I mean sounds a
lot like the way I grew up, where the way
Bird grew up. You know, we're in Cookeville were outside
of Nashville. If I didn't have anything to do or
or said I was bored, my parents were going to
find me something to do outside. Usually no video games.
I think I was like two or three video game
systems behind everybody that I still hate video games because
(08:06):
I'm terrible at them. But yeah, I was the same way.
I mean, I was a good athlete, not an amazing athlete,
and just kind of had to had to work to
get to where I was. That's really how I found
CrossFit as well. So it sounds like very similar paths
and in different areas, but very very similar and similar mindset.
Was strength coached for a little while too, and realized
(08:26):
pretty quick, yeah five am ten pm is not the best.
And yeah, Tennessee Tech, I was not paying nearly what
some of the higher schools are either, So yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
You actually got a paycheck.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well it was a glorified ga. You know. I was
an assistant. I think I made like a right at
a thousand bucks a month. It was right around the
time I started CrossFit, so I was, you know, competing.
I could still train quite a bit in between athletes
or whatever, so it was awesome. But yeah, definitely not
the route. You know, you think you wanted to go down,
and then all of a sudden you're like, man, maybe
not so yeah heck kiam. So now day to day
(09:02):
is what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, that's a great question because I considered like being
a full time strength coach wasn't for me, not only
because the hours, but I actually realized, like, I don't
like just training people all day every day, and so
then I dip my toe into science and I actually,
really this is the same thing. I don't want to
just be a scientist in a lab all day every day,
(09:25):
and so I kind of cultivated a career in which
I do a little bit of everything. So what my
day to day looks like this morning before we got started,
I'm working on our new human Performance center at Parker
right So we're building a sixty four thousand square foot
brand new human performance center in that Dallas area that's
the most innovative technology and systems in human performance in
(09:48):
the world. At the same time, I also am working
directly with a ton of professional athletes. I got two
UFC fires that'll be fighting in the next five weeks
or so, so I'm working on one of the girls
programs this morning, and then when we get done with this,
I'll hop into working on some stuff with our sleep
(10:09):
technology company and our blood work technology company.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So I'm bouncing in.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Between like directly coaching pro athletes and a bunch of
different sports, to building these technologies and companies, to running
our research in our lab, and then really everything in between.
So I'm doing a little bit of everything, which is
exactly how I like.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
It to be. Are all those things your favorite? Or
do you have one that is a specific kind of
above the others?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Man, that's a great question, but I actually I don't
because for whatever reason personality wise, if I have to
do the same thing all the time, like I don't
like it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
There's some days when I'm like I.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Just like there's only so many more research papers I
can read on a topic, right, and I'm just like
so tired of science.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I want to be in the.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Gym, like coaching practical application. And then there's sometimes and
I'm just like I can't handle like watching more warm ups,
like it's just like great, it was a good set,
Like I'm just.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I'm done, Yeah, I'm done. Yeah, man, it's.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Super dope, And like looking at the data science stuff
we're building and getting really far into the this like
new advanced stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And then sometimes it's the opposite.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I'm like, all right, I just want to go try
something and just like out, yeah, all right, black.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Bear in my trail cam this morning, So.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
There you go. Yeah, yeah, all right. Selfishly, what's your
what's your go to fitness? You know, like you a
little mix of everything? You like, you know, more cardio,
you like, more lifting, what's your what's your your favorite?
I guess are you similar to where it's like you
like to change it up?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
No, not really, man. Actually that's the point where like
strength training is for.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Sure my home days, Olympic lifting, powerlifting, all of it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
No, not really those anymore. Really it's sort of hard
to describe. You guys will understand this, but I'll try
to describe this way that the audience will get it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Bird won't, but yeah I will.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's it's more of.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Like, uh, very skill based technical challenge stuff. So the
way that that my coach program stuff for me, It'll
be like a hand leg opposite row to a different position, right,
And we're like I'm trying to get these really complicated
movement patterns re established and really built so that things
just feel great all the time. So I'm training super hard,
(12:30):
like I'll get to max heart rate, I'll get to
max fatigue on things. But it's like, I'm not powerlifting,
I'm not waightlifting, I'm not doing conditioning circuits to max effort. Like, well,
that stuff will all be part of the program, but
most of it is complicated, like classic squad to Spider
Man position with some load stuff, right, and you're just
like what is this?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Like, yeah, I'm trying to think that.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Those movements are You have no idea what I just said. Yeah,
it's these odd combinations of movement patterns I would never
program for myself, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now, is that more of the M M A style
like thinking or you just you just like to keep
the brain guessing.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, man, it's this combination of physical therapy world kind
of blended with more advanced I won't call more advanced,
but just alternative strength conditioning kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's that's advanced. Though. If you think about, you know
what those two movements you just set out, how do
you get from one of those positions to the other?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, it's super weird, right, And then how do you load.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
That yeah, and how I progress that yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And and like that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's where I like it a lot, because for years
I was that, like I was justightlifting or just squatting
downlifting bench whatever for for so many decades. At some
point you're just like, al right, like I still love that.
It's kind of nice to feel something different andhing.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You I said, not feeling as beat up with a
bell crashing you at all times?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, is that?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And then it's just like it'd be kind of nice
to feel my hips move in a different position.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, And I don't feel athletic when I do that
other stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
If that's like all I'm doing.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Yeah, it makes sense. So yeah, that's where you sit here.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And if I'm doing jiu jitsu more or if I'm
doing other stuff, then I feel like I'm moving in
more planes, non specific things, which is great. If that's
not the picture, then I'm like, okay, I'm only doing
these very sagital plane you know, symmetrical. Maybe it's one
leg or one arm, but you're still moving in really
(14:37):
consistent patterns, you.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Know, front, back, up down sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And so now it's kind of like, Okay, well, let
me mix in. Like I live in up in the mountains,
so like getting up and down verticals is pretty easy
easy to find for me, So I'll mixing sprinting up
and down in the hill. Then I have this like
odd strength training sort of thing I do, and then
I have a bike and I can just do like
ass in the pedal just like put in the hours
(15:04):
on the bike. We have this bran enhancement stuff that
we do that combines physical exertion. So I'll end up
doing a bunch of stuff on the VR headset physically
pretty high heart rate and then doing this with reaction
brain training the stuff that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So it's it's this weird like yeah, heck, yeah, yeah, man,
that sounds cool. You know, you get stuck down these
rabbit holes on Instagram or whatever watching videos of just
different movements like oh let me try that, you know,
like I'd never really yesterday I did like a you know,
it's as lame as it sounds, because you know, coming
from the CrossFit world, it's you know, you're Olympic lifting,
you're powerlifting, you're doing some of these things, but like
just even kickstand deadlifts with the X bar I was like, oh, yeah,
(15:43):
I should probably do some of that, you know, like
the older I've gotten, I'm like, oh, I need to
change up. Some of these movement patterns got me in
a hell. I've been doing crossmit for fifteen years, like
hard not just you know, recreationally would be.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Uh over, I'd probably call you recreation cross.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, recreational on that end, uh you know CrossFit
now maybe a little bit recreational. But yeah. So you know,
if you're getting ready for you know, say a hunt somewhere,
are you do you do much like West out West
backpacking style hunt or you know you just said you
got off a black bearing Canada.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah. All my hunting ever in my life is West
love it. I've never done deer stands. I've never done
a white tail.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
You know sit all either. Until last year.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
The first time ever actually was that that last black
bear hunt. We were we were on bait and in
stands a little bit, and so like that was a
whole new thing. It's actually funny, man, because I came
back and I was telling, uh, my, my wife and stuff.
I was like, dude, it's a different kind of hard
to sit wait thirteen hours, like got every day like
(16:55):
cam cam, and I would just like wake up and
just be like God, like the thing er is and
you all for five or six days. Dude, You're just
you're just wrecked bound up.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's awful.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, I felt terrible. So yeah, everything I've ever done
is is West West.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, rock for the most part.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
So if you're do you will you shift your training up,
you know, six eight weeks out if you are going
out west backpacking, I.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Will do it way earlier than that. I'm probably closer
to like sixteen weeks.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
What does what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Man? The biggest thing for me is I'm a lowlander, right,
Like I live at sea level. Basically, yep, we're up,
but we're talking a few hundred feet right, And then
if I go to depending on where we're at in
Idaho or Oregon or here in Washington, Montana, Wyoming, I
could easily find myself at nine thousand feet right. That's
(17:53):
a pretty common thing for us to do, depending on
what tags we drop. So that's a big change. Now
ten thousand feet is like that clip where it starts
to really matter. But nine thousand and then nine thousand
on a run like with a pack on and this
happened to me a couple of years ago. Opening morning,
we're mual deer hunting, and it was a really as
(18:13):
everyone in the West knows, mule deer have just got
really crushed in the last like three years out here.
It's really really tough. So we drew these tags. I
think we probably put in like fifteen preference points. So
we're like we And then then we talked to some
people out there called the biologists, and they're just like, well,
(18:34):
you know, we have ninety percent killed last winter eighty percent,
and like the numbers are down, but not a lot
of guys are coming out because of that. So you'll
probably have the mountain to yourself yep, yep. So there's
anything out there, like, you'll probably have first pick at it.
So I was like, okay, and just schedule wise, like
I don't have I don't have months to hunt a
(18:55):
year yep, yep. Same like I might get ten to
fourteen days total yep, Like that's my yearly a lot.
So I'm like, well, I'm gonna go all right. So
we went out there and we're at I think Bays Camp.
We're probably camping at nine thousand feet, but then we
would we were actually on horses, so we would ride
horses up start our day about ninety five ninety seven
(19:16):
hundred feet elevation, which is not crazy, maybe a little higher.
And then yeah, first morning, boone, we see some across
a ravine and I'm like, man, that's a shooter buck.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It wasn't crazy, but just a nice mature four point dear,
just like a good one probably again like one sixty,
like nothing at all. You cash in fifteen preference points
for But bro.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You're talking to somebody that's gonna pull a trigger on
anything if it's if it's legal, I'm gonna kill it.
So you don't have to. You don't have to do
that to me.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But we see this thing and it's a movement and
it's gonna go up and down on over and I
have to run the rim basically, and I have to
get on top where I can shoot horizontal before it
gets up and over.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I'm gonna lose it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And it was probably I mean, I don't know, but
probably fifteen hundred yards I had to go.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And that's like full pack on. Just got off the
horses and we're like BUGI.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Right, yep, And I mean, I'm run around that thing
and I don't get six hundred yards and I'm for
sure Max hartright like it's I know what Max is and.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
I'm like, I don't feel.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yep, this is not ending anytime soon. Run the rim
finally get over there and end up getting them, probably
got one hundred and seventy yards away, which with the
rifle is I don't need time to set up land
on that, Like I don't need to breathe much to them.
I made a good shot and put him down. But
(20:45):
that was a case where like that was a max
heart rate issue and then that was control your breath
and like make a good, safe, ethical shot yep. Where
in other times like ELK last couple of years, same
kind of area, a different area, but Elk are doing
much better. That was more of a tissue tolerance thing.
(21:07):
It was like, do you need to be moving for many,
many many hours a day and you're gonna go up
and down a bunch and you need to make sure
that you don't wake up on day two mm hmmm,
because this is gonna be five or six days of grind.
Totally so completely different things. So like the max heartwy stuff, Nope,
(21:28):
I can handle it, yep. Doing my whole life right,
like it's not as good as it used to be.
I can train for that, I can get better. But
I'm not like, I'm not uncomfortable. I'm not freaking out
mentally if if I can't breathe, right, but the ability
to wake up and be like my achielees is not
working today.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, it's blown up, like ye.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I have to prepare for that, right yeah, good example.
That just two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And you know Doug Larson, right, Barbara Yell? Yeah, yeah,
he and I went to college together. I don't know
if you guys know that, Okay, I know, yeah, so
he and I lived together, so I'm known him for
over twenty years.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We just summoned Mount Saint Helen's Okay, it's like eighty
five hundred feet. It's like, it's not crazy. But I
did zero preparation for that at all because I'm not
even preparing for hunting season and it's about forty five
hundred feet the elevation game yep, and that probably ten miles.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
That'll do it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Brother, That was a week ago, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Still messed up. What's what? What hurts the most besides
your soul.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Probably the calves.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Oh yeah, calves achilles.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and so that's what I mean of, like, it's
the tissue tolerance. It wasn't like I was out of breath,
Like the elevation game was fine, Like I could have
gone way fast around that yep.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
But it was the next day I woke up my
ankles and calves were so destroyed.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So that's what I mean when I'm like, I mean,
that's what I have to prepare for something like that,
which I did nothing for the Mountain Helens thing.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Just it's here in my backyard.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay, I need to handle that so I can do
a three or four five day one and not just
be completely.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Wrecked because of the up and downs.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I can get everything else in my training, but how
do you simulate three hours in boots up and down?
In this case, it was ten hours. So it's that
part that I have to train for and I can't
do that in six weeks.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, I think you know a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
That's That's one of the things that I think is neglect. Calves. Man,
calves get so blown up on me pretty quick, and
so you know, we push a lot of sled and
do that type of stuff. But yeah, you have to
start way out building up those tolerances because even now
that I've added a bunch of sled the last couple
of weeks, my achilles, my calves, I mean, I have
no meniscus left in my knee, so uh, you know,
(23:43):
I've got to work a lot on that, ye d
cell and stepping down from things or just that's honestly,
the thing that beats me up the most is the
eccentric coming downhill and yeah, yeah, that's what's got.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Me halfway down the mountain. My name is done and
I'm like done.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So it's actually funny, is my right me is the
one that's gone, And so of course I did everything.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
On my left left after my halfway so my.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
White quad wasn't sore at all, yep, and my left
one is again yah, and it's so happy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Man. Yeah, we got opposite legs, I'll give you my Yeah,
we're basically the same thing, but nothing on the left.
I'm looking at an ostiautomy right now. So yeah, but
biden time on that four.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
What are some things that you do to make sure
I know? Of course, like Rich said, he pushed a sled,
you starts that far out, but just practically leading up
to make sure day two, day three, day four, you're
still okay.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, okay, So you know what, I'm gonna skip past
some of the obvious stuff and go to some stuff
I didn't think about perfectly. And because I asked Doug
about this a couple of days ago, I'm like, man,
at you're castle star and he's like, no at all,
and I'm like damn. And he's like, he had just
done half Domee pretty recently, okay, and he prepared for
that pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
And he's like, dude, I just did a bunch of
caffes really, And I was like, boy, only takes thirty
years in this field, not right.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Yeah, yeah, Well, I don't do calf raises. Those are dumb.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I don't do bodybuilding stuff like it just I've never
been interested in it.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And it's like my excuse right to not do accessory
work that I should do.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah right, yep, yep, do as I say, not as
I do.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So I didn't do any calf races and he's like, dude,
it really helped. And I was like, oh my god,
So I.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Would recommend that, but like I would actually start with
really really long angle calf raiss.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, so leaning out, leaning into the wall or into
a rig something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, as much as you can do, I will. It's funny,
man I do him with all of our athletes.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Yeah, like you do many chib raises.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Not really, No, we can.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean that's fine if we have those issues knee issues,
maybe fine. But for the most part we'll do barefoot
yep a lot of times, like on a ball some
ford and get like a aggressive toe foot contraction. Yeah,
all the way up and you can really hammer those things.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You can do them super frequently.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And to your point, Rachel, like you can do really
aggressive angles, like really get as much flection.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Extension as you possibly can.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, because that's gonna be the problem you're in when
you're in those shoes.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, when you're outside those those issues. Yeap. Honestly, a
bunch of us have nerded up and we all wear
Vivo's barefoot shoe and man, I train everything in them,
and it helps my knee a ton, you know, strengthen
everything below and above the knee, you know, I, you know,
just I just because I'm talking about getting this osteotomy
and getting the MRI back and basically you know, severe
(26:38):
arthritis and all three compartments and uh, at some point
my a cl my body just absorbed it. No a
cl Uh. Yeah, there's no fibers left, and so you
know I have and I couldn't tell you when that happened,
and so you know you got to work around some
of those things, right.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I've had five surgeries on the same knee, and the
last one is at ploratory and they're just like.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, we're done.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Yeah, we're done, We're done.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah it's full replacement or yeah, we'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
How old.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I had that at? Thirty probably thirty five years old?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Okay, they're like you're done, and you're how old now?
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Forty two?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
All right, I'm thirty eight. Yeah. They were like, oh,
we can try a nasty out of me, and I'm
like maybe we'll see so yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So I'm holding out for for higher.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Upson's right, right? All right, So you know we've talked
the exercise side of stuff, but like, all right, a
guy gets in day one, day two and they've done
a ton of volume. At night, obviously your sleep's not
going to be the greatest, right, you know, anybody asks
me my highest you know, like what's the biggest thing
for recovery? I'm like, make sure you're eating enough and
make sure you're sleeping enough for me, you know, like
what's the goal? You know, like should I should I
(27:51):
cold punch that I saw it on. I'm like, if
you have those things, great, but best like best case
is eating sleep, right, And so what do you you know?
Are you more procarb guy? Are you more keto guy? Like,
let's we'll talk nutrition first. Obviously hydration is a huge
piece of that making sure you're getting those things. But
we'll talk nutrition first, and we'll talk I mean, sleep
(28:12):
is gonna be hard in the mountains.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, so he's talking about in preparation for or when
you're up there.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Let's just let's do both, just quick, maybe quick on both.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, so in preparation. Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
The reason I asset is because the answers are almost
pull their opposite Right, you want to maximize sleep and
you want to maximize nutritional quality when you're here anhydration,
but you want to be careful with over consuming fluids
when you're out and packing. Just the basic answer there
is like you're packing too much load if you're not
(28:45):
using bottles that you can filter and devices like that.
But anybody who's ever especially hunting, you don't want to
be peeing every forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It's a in fact, a funny story. We got back
to camp recently and James Cam's like a camera guy.
I was like, bro, I just I think I broke
a record, Like what He's like, I just held a
p for twelve hours. And I was like, well, there
was this monster, this like eight foot plus black bear,
(29:18):
and they had cam and almost got a shot at
him and he didn't and so then they waited days
for him to come back.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And James is like, I didn't want.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
To go pete in the area at all and like
potentially blow this hunt and who knows it actually matters
this giant monster. But he's like, I'm not even gonna
risk it because this is like a record breaking black bear.
So you don't want to be like doing that. It's
just a pain do that. So we actually be generally
men like kind of do what's what's needed hydration wise
(29:46):
when you're out there, but you want to prepare prior
to going out in the optimal conditions so that you're
as resilient as possible when you're in these suboptimal conditions. Right,
So when you're para like prior to going out, you
want to be at great body composition, you want to
(30:07):
be lean, right, we don't want to be doing all
those things. But when you're out there, it's the opposite,
Like all that is irrelevant, and you want to smash
calories all Yep, however you can, right, And I'll give
you two like very similar examples we recently worked with.
And I actually just had data open this morning on
Michael Easter. I don't know if you know Michael, but
(30:29):
he just did this cool thing where he went I
forget the numbers he did, but I think he did
nine hundred miles hike. It took him like six weeks
or something like that, so he just.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Just hyped all the way rup through.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Numbers may be off there, but it was something like
really some mile here. At the same time, I'm right
in the middle of Ross Edgeley, and Ross is swimming
around Iceland. Okay, this is a thousand I think it's
a thousand miles swim and it's going to take him
probably five months, jeez, and he's two months in or
something like this at this point, Wow, and it's freezing cold.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
And I mean, yeah, there's so many factors, all these things.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They're talking about, like pretty extreme angles of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And philosophically, it was the same approach in Ross's case.
He doesn't want to be lean. He's literally an ice
water for a little bit and needs to have a
little bit of insulation.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Right, Michael's up store, like, let's be lean as possible.
But in the event, we're getting as many calories hammer case,
like legit trying to get ten thousand a day, Michael,
the most high calorically dense stuff. Now you're you're literally
talking candy bars.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You're talking because.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I mean it's it's in and out.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
In and out right, you need everything there. So when
it comes to like fats carb sings like that's a
game to play at home.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right, see what everybody holds it out effects everybody's different,
you know, like there's not one stop shop. I mean
we know quality obviously and in perfect world is best.
But yeah, it's sounds very similar to when we compete, right,
you know, like we're trying to optimize when we're at home,
and then as soon as you get on the you know,
you you get off the plane to wherever you're at,
it's like, all right, give me some gummies, some nerd clusters, whatever.
(32:19):
I got to get to get some sugar. And now
you know, I've done Leadville the last two years and
you know, and it's it's what somebody said it to
me was, you're basically when you're doing an endurance test,
it's an eating competition, right. You gotta you gotta stay
ahead of that curve because if you fall behind, you're done.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We had I had a guy named Jordie Sullivan on
my show, and Jordi was a dietitian for Ned Brockman
when he did the thousand mile run.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh and it's dope.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Jordi went through everything Ned. I think Ned did this
on a track.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
By the way, God, oh oh.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Add right there is that hurts me. I think that's
harder than the actual physical side of it. Just on.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So Jordi had everything down in terms of everything from
calories to macros to electrolyzed to sodium to fluid, all
this stuff, and he goes through it in detail. But
the point of it is, yeah, man, like it's about
like you have to stay ahead because if you fall behind,
it's you're done.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
You're not catching up when you're that physically active the
whole time. So yet no, I agree with one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
So get ahead, you know, play with your your macros
as you see fit. I generally look the rub with
fat is fat is great because it gives you more
calories a pre density. Right, And so when you pack
it out there, and this is when the old trail
mixed stuff falls in. Right, you have a handful of
nuts as an example, and it feels like a handful
(33:51):
in your stomach.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But you could get five hundred calories.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yep, Like a handful of that apple is like, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Just not much.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It's mostly water.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
You're gonna get you need to eat five apples. Yeah,
Like you're just not gonna get it there.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So from like a packing in your pack to sitting
on your stomach, And depending on what kind of hunting
you're doing. If you're doing like September elk or something
and it's hot out, sometimes it's.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Hard to eat a lot during the day.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this is when some of these like quote unquote
lowercality calorie foods or higher fat foods can help you
just get a lot. I mean it's hard to get
a lot of calories with beef jerky.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Yeah, this is super hard to do it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
So you play a combination of those games. And depending
on how long your your trip is, things like protein
matter or don't at all. Right, if you're out there
for four or five days, like protein content doesn't matter. Yeah,
if it makes your stomach set a little bit better
or feel it fine, if you're out for thirteen, fifteen,
twenty one day, then you can probably should start taking
(34:58):
attention to protein a little bit. But from those guys,
get protein in as you feel good, as you you know,
as you like it to taste and stuff. But really
this is a total calorie game. You're split between carbs
and fat. I don't know how much difference at Actually,
In fact, I was just with boy I'm name.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Dropping like crazy right now for it.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I was at rich Rules three or four days ago
and we were talking about this exact same thing, and
he's like, man, like, I just don't know how big
of a deal carbs are versus fat like in these events, yeah,
all Like, I just because we don't have a lot
of data on people doing stuff like this, so scientifically,
I don't have a good answer. This is now coming
(35:42):
around in like empirical and practical stuff and what people
are saying totally how you feel, how you feel?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah, and you need to test that, you know, you
need to test that regularly. You know, we do throughout
the year, We'll do a couple of twenty four hour events,
you know, maybe a partner relay or something like that.
But man, I you know mentally they something to be
said about it, but physically you're like, all right, hey,
what happens. You know, we did a twenty four hour
mountain bike relay four people and yeah, man, you go
(36:08):
for forty minutes and then you're off for hour forty hour,
two hours and then you got to get right back on.
So man, it's it's you know, for me, somebody who
loves this stuff is like you nerd out on it.
You're like, all right, let me try eating X and
drinking X and how do I feel on that last ride?
How are my times? And that type of thing. Man,
I you know, from you know, you're studying the whole time,
(36:28):
and so yeah, I think you've got to do those
things every once in a while in the off season
to figure out how you're gonna respond in the season.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I mean, if you're talking about people that we directly
work with and coach, we're.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Tracking every everything. You have extensive data. We run, really
advanced sleep tracking technologies, really advanced blood work stuff like
we know what's going on in physiology. If you don't
have any of that. One really practical piece of advice
I gave somebody is when you're out for multiple days,
(37:01):
the biggest problem you're honestly going to run into outside
of your joints to something sore is your gi And
so when you go from eating you know this this
way at home, and then you get up there and
now you're eating candy bars all day, you're gonna get
either diarrhea or tremendous constipation. And so the advice there
(37:23):
is saying like a lot of times there'll be just
so much discomfort because you're just like, man, I haven't
pooped in.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Three days, Like what is going on here? This is awful.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
If you're in one of these like events like leadbill
or something like that, this is going to be just
like constantly consuming carbohydrates for the most part, and in
a form that you don't usually take them, in a
volume way higher than.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
You used to.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yep, this is gonna be bubble guts, this is gonna
be I just can't anything else anymore. Like I can't
drink and stuff anymore. I'm losing palatability. So when I
say g I stuff, I think it's it's kind of
all these combinations of things. So the practical piece advice
would be one, try to have a standard playbook, right,
(38:07):
I take four of these and two of these and
three of this, and then like, try to be consistent
every day. Give your gi a chance to go, Okay,
this is what's happening at this time, yep, and give it.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Try to standardize it once you get.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
There, standardize it and try to make it as close
to your normal routine foods as you possibly can and
normal times, like all that stuff. That's going to give
you the least You still may be in trouble, but
that will give you the least amount of problems because
you don't want to be stopping four times a day
to you know, take your gear off, or again sitting
(38:45):
there being like man, I need it stomach rock right now,
because I can't be a business going there. So that
that will help a lot of people just like get
a consistent plan. I eat the same thing if you can,
or over every day at the same times. After a
couple of your stomach will adjust a little bit and
you'll feel cool all right.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
And then as far as sleep goes, obviously it's not
going to be optimal in the field. So a couple
tips leading up to optimizing is, you know, consistent sleep
and wake times, dark room, cool room, anything else major.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I mean sleep at home is all about precision.
I mean there's all the little basic stuff like you mentioned. Sure,
that's that's like basical sleep hygiene up. But what we
actually do is we have technology where we can run
full clinical grade medical sleep studies from people in their
own house, and so we can do that now it's
(39:44):
actually more advanced technology than you would see any sleep possible.
We run that on people even if they don't you know,
have huge sleep disorders or don't think they have one,
because the vast majority of sleep disorders are undiagnosed. If
you're fact I do this all the time. If you're
that guy in hunting camp who's like scaring off all
(40:04):
the bears at night because you're snoring, So yeah, you
have a sleep disorder. Like that is snoring, even like
mile storing is not behind right, it's not a guarantee
sleep disorder, but it is a problem. And so we
will run these sets on people. It's pretty easy, and
from there we can give really precise, simple fixes. This
(40:29):
could be something as simple as changing your pillow, could
be way more advanced, like ten weeks of what's called
cognitive behavioral therapy or six weeks of tongue exercises you
have to do real or we might have something that
we see in the environment in your bedroom dand or
(40:52):
Paul and allergens like it could be big, too small,
But the reality of it is when you have precision
like that, we can get people really advanced sleep solutions
and they sleep a whole lot better. So then they
go into those trips not just already trashed, because when
you get out in the field, it's like, Okay, who knows.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
What you're sleeping on or what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
You're probably not gonna sleep anyways, just because you're so
excited and namped up. And I mean, I remember a
couple of years ago, I was on a cot and
we were camping, was there was not a flat spot
in the mountain I was, but I was like forty
five sliding off.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
There's no like.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
But you're fine because you didn't walk into it.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Sleep trap yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And so manage the best you possibly can in the field.
And that's that's the different set of answers. But really
really spend the time to make sure you're sleeping. Well,
there's actually excellent research on what's called sleep enhancement stuff,
and so sleep enhancement or getting ahead of sleep. There's
probably been thirty plus papers studies that have been published now,
(42:05):
specifically in military groups looking at this stuff. And so
what we're talking about here is when you go into
situations of known sleep deprivation. Again, this mostly research comes
out of military yep. And the testing here is things
like shooting accuracy, So very relevant toward to the people
we're talking about now. When you get in those sick
(42:26):
deferation situations, we know you're going to shoot less accurately,
your decision making will be worse, so on and so forth. Great,
but if you can batch or extend your sleep ahead
of time, the amount of accuracy and decision making that
you will lose during that sleep deprivation is significantly reduced.
By extending sleep prior to this event. Now, in the
(42:49):
case of the military, depending on the groups we're working with,
they don't always get noticed, right, But in this case,
you know you're hunting trek, you know yet you know
your dates. And this research has been done from as
little as three days of extending sleep or sleep banking
is what you hear.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
This called extension of banking. Yeah, only up to six
to eight weeks.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And the amount of extra sleep you get per night
can be as little as forty five minutes per night,
up to ninety minutes extra per night. And so what
I'll say is, like, hey, the week before, give me
an extra hour of sleep per night. Yeah, like aim,
that is our target. And if you do that, you
(43:32):
will not only probably feel a lot better, even if
you don't feel any better, Because research is also clear
with smiles short term sleep deprivation, your perception will not
match your cognitive output. That's what that means is you
will perform cognitively, really poorly. In fact, six hours a
night of sleep will you'll have a cognitive performance equiebent
(43:53):
to forty eight hours of consecutive awakening events, but you
will have zero subjective awareness of.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
That so you won't really and you will think I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
I'm actually not that bad, and if we put you
on a sharp shooting test, you would perform.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
And so that's what I'm like, dude and invest in
and but the problem is everybody like goes, I'm gonna
be out of town for a week, so I gotta
go all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Done and ye stress, stress about whatever got up, family time, yep.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
All of that right, So I get it. I do
the same thing. Go into a sleeping hunting.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Trip is like surprise.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
But if you can in the three days to as
long as you possibly can, extending your sleep as much
as you possibly can, I will make a big deal,
a big difference. Then you just you just get through
it and be resilient, you know, on the trip.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Cool for me, it's just super hard to stay hydrated
enough and get enough sleep good because I have to
wake up like six times the night.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, by drink anything past seven o'clock at night. I
pissed three times a night.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You shouldn't actually be doing that, I trust me. Yeah,
we shouldn get there.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
But it's actually sort of a funny point too, because
when you're out and you get five hours asleep or something,
and then you get up twice to take a leak.
Speaker 5 (45:13):
You're like three hours, Yeah, you're three hours.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
That's why I actually like generally kind of recommend being
a little bit under hydrated. Yeah on those so you
can get a little better sleep and you know time. Yeah,
but yeah, getting back to camp and then shugging two
liters of water.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah not the not not the best probably, or the
caffeine and beta that you're taking in at five six
o'clock getting hyped up for that bull you know it's
about to bugle. That's not great either out there.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, I don't do that at all. Oh really from
that man?
Speaker 5 (45:45):
Yeah? Yeah we could.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Man, I could sit here pick your brain all day long,
but we want to be uh respectful to your time.
If you had one blanket, I know there's we could
give thousands a piece of advice, but one, one step,
one actionable thing that people could take away. What you got.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
The kind of a theme we've had today, and I'll
say it a little bit differently, is you will have
more success when you minimize varias. Right, So whether this
is kind of try to eat the same thing, it's
just like you do with your shot. Right, you have
your routine, your you do a B and C, your stock,
your whatever. Do the same thing with this type of
(46:28):
preparation and just try to even if that playbook isn't perfect,
have a plan, have a plan, and be consistent. We
can adjust the playbook, but when the playbook is different
every single time, we have no idea of knowing what worked,
what didn't, what caused you to have the great day,
a terrible day.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
So and forth.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So pick kind of a routine even prior to going out,
whether this is your training and nutrition, your recovery, all
of it. Be consistent and give it a whack in
the field and then come back and let's make adjustments
next time.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
But don't program hot. I mean, I heard you talking
about all the time. We don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
We don't know what. Yeah, if we can control as
many amount of variables as we can, we can pinpoint
one maybe change something that we feel like, oh, that
wasn't it. But if we don't have a baseline or
have something to test, man, I love that. That's awesome.
You got anything else, bird?
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Yeah, Well, just listen to you in the past. I
know you have talked just about like kind of the
trial and error of everything. And that's kind of what
you're talking about, because like things that we've said before
is even adjusture training times, things like that, you know,
leading up for I always work out late in the afternoon,
so like in your if you're at camp, sometimes it's
(47:40):
tough to get my bodies just up and then because
the first thing, you're right up a mountain, you know
what i mean. So it's helped leading up to wake
up during the dark, get to the gym, put on
a pack, get on the StairMaster, put a push a
sled during that time, just to lead up because when
you're there and every things deprived and it just it's
(48:01):
more second and Nate, you know, it's more kind of
just it's in my brain more. That's like this is
just what I've always done type deal. Then it's totally different.
My body's just in shock.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, physiology is tremendous at pattern recognition. Pattern recognition foresure,
and you know, we'll I'll give you guys a little
bit of a bonus here, but going to your eating
and before your workout or after your workout.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Thing, right we go here, we go. Yeah, it's pattern recognition, right,
like rich.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
If your body figured out for a long time, we're
not gonna fuel before we're going to train, it got
fine with it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
If it's the opposite, it's fine with it.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
What was gonna throw you off is if you're used
to eating and then you don't eat. If you're not
used to eating and then you eat, both of those
are going to be bad.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
It can do. You can do do the way.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We actually just published a study out of our lab
on air emittent fasting and training and highly trained people
who are progressively overloading, like training really hard.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It can go find it away five Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Yeah. I did it for years, man, and I loved it.
And then it just got to the point where I
couldn't get enough calories in that eight hour window. So
you know, I started adding a little small, you know,
protein shake and a bagel or a protein shake and
some fruit after you know, a little session, and then
you know, I've kind of stuck with that. So it's
a quasi intermit in fasting. But I just feel great,
no food, working out first thing in the morning. I
(49:25):
just I like it.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
And I have we have some athletes who are the
opposite world record holding athletes, and they either have different
chronotypes so that they're just not going to get up
in the morning, or even if they do, like they
just want a huge breakfast and fuel for the day.
And I think we have enough empirical evidence and we
definitely have enough signs of the evidence to say either
(49:48):
of these approaches whatever works and work. If you're like
reasonably consistent, you just want to be the guy who,
like you know, doesn't have breakfast today, breakfast tomorrow, and
then like you wonder why you have these energy crashes
and lulls. You feel like your system doesn't know what's
going on. And we want to be resilient at all
times for sure, if we don't want to be precious
(50:10):
and a liability, and like you don't want to be like, oh,
I didn't have my breakfast today. I can't, I can't.
Speaker 5 (50:16):
I can't climb that mountain, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I don't want Yeah, I'm leaving you, like.
Speaker 5 (50:22):
We'll do that, We'll leave you.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah. But if you know you got to get up
at three and get.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Up the mountain, then you're not going to like some
of your trambled legs and toast, you should be able
to still perform yeah, but at the same time, you know,
if your probody performs better my way, it's totally farm there.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
There's you have options either way.
Speaker 5 (50:43):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Uh yeah, one just one last question, I guess, but
really for both of you, just the importance or difference
what's needed what's not needed. Just I think one of
the big tensions, even like people on the internet whatever,
it's just like the importance of muscle size and doing
something like this compared to maybe I don't need to
(51:05):
do that, I just need to do Zone two training
the whole time, compared to okay, well you need some
kind of like explosiveness too to be able to do
some of this stuff. Just to me, you need it,
you need it all right, But then some people are
just like, ah, that's not me. I'm just going to
put on a pack Zone two for an hour. But
maybe it comes to that pack out or something else
(51:26):
where you need that other stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Just yeah, well, I mean I think I don't know.
Twenty years across it has made this answer pretty clear.
Speaker 5 (51:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, you want to be pretty well rounded and lots
of volume over multiple days. I wouldn't do fifty hours
of cycling. I wouldn't do powerlifting.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
Either yep, all of it.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I mean, it's a.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Pretty easy answer. I guess a little bit less tongue
in cheek would be, it depends on your own personal
what I call defenders. Right, So someone like me, I
don't need any power or strength training prior to getting
preparation for these things. I will never be limited by
my leg strength.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
You don't have those holes. Yep, you don't have those holes.
You have that background, your body knows you're that type
of athlete. Those are you muscle fibers.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
And I've literally biops biopsy thousands of people. I've been
biopsied almost forty times personally.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Gosh literally no, right, I've never been biopsied.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
So there we go.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Man, you know how many times people asked me to
biopsy you over my career.
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean,
I I've got the extra science background. I would be
interesting because everybody's like, are you more type one, type two,
Type A, type B whatever. I'm like, I would say A,
but I'm not one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Sure you're You're definitely fast pitched, yeah, for sure, yeah
you are. For but you have other.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
Yeah, I've got some weird skills to recover. Pity some
other crossfitters that are not that way, right, Yeah sure.
In general though, if you're doing decent acrossfit, you're very happy.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
We've got to have some some type two for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (53:10):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
So the opposite, it's like for me, I need to
do almost exclusively. It doesn't matter z own one zone
two zone like that's almost all nonsense.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
In general for health and for everything else.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Like it's I don't give a shit about your zone,
but I need to do way more volume, way more
tissue tolerance. That's all I always do it, Like my
joints and soft tissue need to just get used to pounding, pounding,
so rucking and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
It actually makes a big difference for me.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Other folks, if you're that other side, you ran across
country as a kid, you're up in the mountains all
the time, you're you're a cowboy, or you're a guide
or something, you probably need zero more minutes of that
stuff and would need to do exclusively powerlifting yep, or exclusively.
You know, I wouldn't necessarily argue tomic weightlifting, but you
(54:05):
get the point. Like, probably some plow metrics. I don't
even know if I would argue interval stuff. You probably
don't need that at all either. You could certainly do
it just benefit. But if we're like saying, all your
stuff in, give me three days a week, two days
a week, lift low volume, really high quality, pure strength stuff,
(54:28):
and you'll probably notice a significant difference getting up and.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Down scrambles and and.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
They're because exactly like I said, Rich like, you're just
not You're you're very deficient in that stuff. Muscant endurance
is high, and robo capacity is probably high enough so
and so forth right there, but you just don't you
don't have any horsepower in those So the answer could
be a combination of both, depending on your background.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Great, man, I could sit here and nerd out on
this all day, but we are at an hour, so man,
I appreciate it. And once again, if your schedule ever
allows it, or if we were make it out to you, Man,
I'd love to sit and talk and you know, throw
out different ideas and try some of those Cossack squad
to spider stretch, spider Man stretch. I'm really intrigued. Actually,
(55:17):
I could do it on my right side, my left knee.
I don't think I could do it, you know. It's
I'm extremely limited in the flexion of that knee.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, no, I hear man. I have whatever. Man, I'm
down to do anything. I'd love to get together sometime.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
Cool, let's do it, man. I appreciate it again. Thank you.
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