December 10, 2025 • 60 mins
On this week's In Service Of, a powerful and candid conversation with electronic dance superstar Alison Wonderland. Steve Baltin and Wonderland have a history of great interviews and they, along with guest cohost Donovan Boyer, an electronic music aficionado, pick up where they left off in this incredibly honest talk about insecurity, Wonderland's pregnancy, balancing music and motherhood, her new album, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey, the Steve Balton and this week on in Service AUP,
I'm joined by the incomparable Allis in Wonderland. I have
known Alison for years, always loved talking to hers. You
can hear this really fun, free flowing conversation in celebration
of her new album, Ghost World. Alison is incredibly excited
(00:28):
to have this out. We were also joined in this
conversation by electronic music expert Donovan Winter, who, as you
can hear, is also very excited for the album. This
is a really fun talk. I love Alison. She always
is so open, so candid, and I hope you enjoyed
this one as much as we did. I've been asking
(01:02):
everybody their favorite lyric, and I'm doing this four round
up piece where like I don't know everybody from like
random people like Khidas and Camera Crow, so like different
rock stars have answered. So that's how we're gonna start.
What is your favorite lyric?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Ever?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, you know what's really weird is recently a lyric
that I've heard forever actually really got me while I
was playing a show, and it was a radiohead lyric.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And I actually.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Haven't shared this publicly, but my dog passed away this
year and it has been.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Really hard for me.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And I was on stage about two weeks after it happened,
and she'd been with me for about fourteen years, so
you know, and everything in its right place started playing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And I just bowled like what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And I just it was like, you know, everything's in
its right place, and so yeah, for me, at the moment,
everything in its right place.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Everything, and it's right.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I was just like.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thinking about my dog dying and thinking or maybe it
was just the right time.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So I think that's a good lyric.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That is like the most traumatic thing now, you know,
literally lost my mom right and I actually had a
harder time losing my dog, and I felt really guilty
and then someone explained it to me, and it makes
so much sense. You have no baggage with your dog.
Your dog is just unconditional love. Parents. Of course you
have issues with you know, you've had on and ah,
(02:37):
you know, but dog is just like unconditional. So I
get it. So I'm sorry. It's a terrible thing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I actually truly haven't publicly shared it until now because
a lot of people knew my dog, and yeah, it
was it's just it was out of nowhere as well,
like literally was fine and then thirty seconds later was dead.
It was bizarre, and it was just she had a
(03:03):
like a like a blood clot or something that we
didn't have. And anyway, Yeah, so the radiohead Everything in
Its Right Place was playing and I just started bawling,
and I started thinking about my dog and thinking, oh
maybe you know the thinking oh well, at least it
was her choice.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And she was in my husband's arms at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And it was just like a very like profound realization
of a lyric that I've heard my entire life, and
then I just it just clicked for me, which is amazing.
And that's why music's amazing, because it's so eternal, and
you can always redefine how you feel listening to a
lyric when you grow or you can just that's why
(03:42):
art's awesome, because it's it's you know, the it's about
how you visualize what this person's made and it can
mean anything to you. So yeah, that's probably a lyric
that recently has has struck with me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's interesting though you had that experience, because I was
talking with Luke from Empire of the Sun earlier this year.
I'm sure you've known forever. And you know, he lost
his dad this year, and we were talking about for
him how cathartic it was being on stage and having
twenty thousand people sitting back to him while he was
like dealing with his dad's dead. So I'm sure being
(04:18):
on stage at that moment hearing this there was a
level of catharsis for you. And then we're gonna switch
topics in the second because nothing fucking bumps me out
more than dead pets.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's the worst, man, I like, I had like it
was terrible.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Because we were just like fine, and then the next
minute we're driving to a crematorium and we're just like, what's.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So It's so surreal how fast it happened.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Out of she was fine and then she made a
weird noise.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
My husband picked her up and she just went and
we're like, you know, and I'm like waiting for her
to blink, and it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Just and it was horrible.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And then the next day we get the ashes back
and they'd taken her poor prince, and it was just
really horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And now her poor prince next to ourbed, so terrible.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm so sorry, dude, pet death.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Man? I never had it's awful, dude, and then like
having to come home and seeing like her bowls everywhere
and not hearing the jingling of the.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Collar was like the silence was so loud. And my
husband said this one thing, which was how can such
a small thing take up so much space?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And I was like, oh, so profound.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So yeah, anyway, sorry, I feel like we started the
interview in such a bummer, but yes, yes, oh you're fine.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We'll switch gears for a second because it's funny. I
was looking at the last one we did two years
ago when you do White Fang at Coachella, and you
talked a lot about the fact that, you know, being
pregnant really inspired you creatively. So did number two also
about a lot of creativity.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, I made the way pattern. Oh yeah, no, I know.
I'm like, I just had a baby like the other day,
and here we.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Are saying congratulations, thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
He's really chill, so that's good.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But yeah, I made quite a lot of the album pregnant,
and I've done the same with White Fang. And I
think when you're creating a whole life in your body,
it makes you feel very powerful and creative all around.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
If you are a creative person. Well, I personally found
it that way, and I was very inspired.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Musically and just in like the headspace that I was in,
and yeah, it was it really kind of I don't know.
It's like this extra energy, this extra little soul in
your body, that's that's adding adding another layer.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's very strange. And then once you have.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
The child out in the world, you're just like, I
can never be whack. So it makes you want to
keep going and do your best. So it's you know,
I was told so many times if you have a kid,
your career is over. You're not going to feel motivated,
You're not going to feel creative, and it's just bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I just want to put it out there. It's bullshit.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Well it's definitely agree.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh go ahead for zam.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Oh no, sorry, I was just saying heavily agree because
before this I had a couple of questions read it
out for you, but a lot of them were too,
like kind of dealing with that you just having your
second child, how that influenced you. I even wrote that
down that was so profound creating while creating, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I mean, chuck, because I was, you know, there was
a time where I thought I would never be able
to have children, and I had quite a few issues.
And in Lona, which was the Alison Wonderland album that
I wrote. It came out in twenty two, there's a
there was a lyric in one of my songs saying like,
if I'm such a creator, I can't I make you?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I was like, I don't understand if I'm like.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
My whole life has been I create things, and I
just can't create like the one thing I want, which
is a child. And then eventually it happened with a
lot of work. But yeah, once that's happening, it's like, well,
no one can fuck with me now because.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I'm literally creating a human.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
So I think it's a very archaic narrative that a
woman's life and career is over once they have a child.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And I think you can do both.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And I'm extremely attentive to both my kids, and I'm
I work from home and they sit in the studio
with me. I mean, the other one's so new, who knows,
but the other one max sits in the studio with me.
And I also have like a super supportive partner, which
really helps. And yeah, like it's just it's just bullshit
(08:55):
that you lose your identity. I think people have been
told that, and for me, I never felt that way.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, there are so many great as though that I
talked to you that have had kids at this point.
I mean, everybody from Patty Smith to Sarah Gloughlin too.
I mean, so it's interesting. Certainly, there's like, are there
people that you've watched or talked to and wait, I'm
going to come back to that to say, but first
I want to go back to the line you mentioned
from Loner about if I'm such great a great, if
I'm such a great creator, why can't I create you?
(09:26):
Because it's really funny. This has been like inspiring me
a lot lately. I spoke, you know, with Shnead O'Connor,
you know, multiple times before she died, and Shanade was brilliant.
I also spoke with Nick Cave, who's also brilliant, and
one thing we talked about, you know, in separate interviews,
was how much songwriting can manifest things, how much it
(09:48):
can bring things to life. And Shanead in particular was like,
you need to care for what you write about because
you know, like it will come true. So it's very
interesting for you.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I actually really don't write.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I truly believe that because with Lona, that whole album
was a manifestation album for me where I was in
like a super dark place and all of those songs
were about me not victimizing that part of me and
that it was like it was going to be okay.
And the whole album was actually a very hopeful album
for me and quite a like stepping into my power album.
(10:24):
And I truly manifested stuff through it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I believe that, and I'm very superstitious about it.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So there are some things I don't really touch when
I'm writing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Interesting, So what are the things you will not touch?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't even talk about it. I'm like verisious about it.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And that's really funny because no one's ever asked me that.
And there are some topics where I just don't want
to manifest them, so I don't say it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So let's see then, since we started off on a bummer,
let's be optimistic. So what were the things you wrote
about on this album manifested or that you really want
to manifest on ghost World?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Okay, so this album for me is trying to like
I do feel a little displaced in my industry, and
I always really have like I'm not really sure where
I fit in as an as like an artist, and
it's been you know, I feel like, you know, I
haven't been an industry darling ever. I've never really had
(11:28):
like the public respect from peers that I respect. It's
and it's not a complaint. It just is what it is.
Some people get me and some people don't. And I
think I have been a little polarizing in terms of
people even trying to understand me, just basically of like
you know, in the past, when I started out, I
was getting defined as like a girl DJ, and it's
(11:49):
just like not that's like a tip of the iceberg
of what I am as an artist. And so it's
really felt like I'm wondering in this limbo of where
do I fit in in the industry. So what I
did with this album is I just made my own world,
ghost world, because you know, I actually didn't have a
(12:10):
name for the album until kind of earlier this year,
just before I put out the first single, and I
didn't know what to call it, and I played all
the songs to my husband and I was like, I
don't know what to call this, and he's like, well,
every single song is about you not really being sure
about where you fit or what you know or who
(12:30):
you are, and like what other people define you as and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Where you're going. So it feels like you're a bit
of a ghost, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
And I thought, oh, yeah, it does, and so I
I just wanted to I was like, screw it, I'm
going to create this universe for myself.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, because I just there was there was almost no.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Album because I wasn't really uh feeling it, and I
wasn't sure who Alice in Wonderland was at the time,
and I was feeling quite uninspired by myself and lost
(13:18):
and not in a bad way.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Just I think a lot of artists go through this.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And then I just honestly, there were about five or
six songs that I wrote in two.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Weeks after I made the decision to go is.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I was watching this Billy Joel interview and he had
said that there were many times he wanted to stop
and he would ask himself, is there still fuel in
the tank? I think he said, and I just went,
is there still fuel in the tank? And I had
just you know, sold out my I don't know how
many Red Rocks it was, but my I've played Red
(13:51):
Rocks many times without putting an album out that year,
and I think.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I said, well, there is fuel in the tank.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I have fans, I have people I listened to my
music and fuck it like I'm gonna go hard or
go home basically with this album, and I a and ard.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The whole album myself and.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Just chose to collaborate with people that I was truly
a fan of, that where we understood each other as
artists and I was quite the thing that was really
inspiring me creatively was the fact that I got to.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do whatever I wanted with the White Fang album.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So I just was like, I'm bringing that energy to
the AW album. I'm going to write the songs, I'm
going to sing on it, but I'm making whatever the
fuck I want, and like there's gonna be no external voices,
and cut to me being able to play twelve of
the fourteen songs already live in my sets and then
fitting in you know it just it made sense.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Like I think Lona was a.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Very introverted album for me which I needed to write,
and so this one was a little bit more like,
well fuck everyone like his and album that I really
fucking mean, and there's this is the world I'm building
for myself and if you understand it, you're invited to
this world. And if you don't, that's also really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Have fun. I'm not like I had to just be
at peace with that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And you know, I think this album's a little bit
of an ego death for me when I was writing it,
because you know, I've had over a decade, way over
a decade of a really great career so far, and
I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And I just think, you know, when.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You've been around for this song, you need to have
a bit of an ego death to be able to
bring yourself back.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Up again creatively. And that's kind of what happened to
me writing this.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Let me interject and ask a question. First off, I
love hearing everything that you have to say. The first
thing I have to ask is, when let's take Luner
for example, versus this Ghost World project. Do I guess
when you say like, do you kind of almost conceptualize
sometimes your work beforehand? Like you were saying, this is
(16:22):
kind of more like for me, for example, I always
work with working titles first to kind of visualize the
world that I want to be in. Did this kind
of all follow or fall in your hands track by
track rather than kind of trying to attempt to write
an album all the way through? Was it more of
a collective piece together album?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I guess I would say with all my albums creatively,
I never start with a concept because for me, Hello, sorry,
my kid.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Just walked in. You want to say, hi, Okay, sorry,
this is Mac.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
No, it's not Connor, this is Steve. You say hi,
it's my twin. Right, it's not Connor, it's Steve.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But you're gonna go You're gonna go play with your trains.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Sorry, So sorry if I worded that question.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We are.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
It's actually a great question because, like it's something that Garth,
my manager, and I have always talked about. I never
go into an album with a concept because for me,
when I'm writing lyrics or a song, it kind of
like appears from my soul and there's no preconceived notion to.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Me writing it. And that's why I like it, because
it's so therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's like I'm getting possessed by my brain and my
subconscious when I'm writing.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Also, so I write like a bunch.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Of stuff, and then at the end, I'm like, oh,
this is the capsule collection of this part of my life,
and then it'll kind of comes to me. I'm a
very like, I'm very intuitive when I create, so there's
I never have like a plan. I just sit and write,
and if it feels like an.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Album, there's an album there.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And you know, with this one, it really just felt
like an album. And I'm a I'm an album artist.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I always will be.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I don't I'm very bad at just singles because I
don't understand how I can't have a narrative.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I wish I was a single artist because I feel
like they are doing better now.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
But I love albums and and so for me, an
album is like a time capsule, a collective of a moment,
of a piece of like what I've been going through,
and a story.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
But at the start, there's nothing, there's no thought.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And and the best thing Garth, my manager said, who
you know, we've been together forever, was just don't overthink
it when you when you're in the studio, don't think.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's very like primal and intuitive, and then I sit back,
like once all the the little ideas are written and
I'm just like, oh, okay. So, when you know, ghost
World was getting written, I didn't have a concept. So
when my husband, who like literally knows nothing about electronic music,
was sitting there, I was like, here's all the songs,
(19:15):
and he like and he listened to it and went, oh, okay,
this is what it's about. Because I couldn't even really
see this one. And then he was like, oh, it
just sounds like you don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Where you fit in.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
This is what the whole album's about, and you're a
bit you're just trying to fit in, but you don't,
so you have to be okay with it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So like that's what I was interjecting about earlier, is
like everything that you're saying kind of ends up falling
hand in hand with the idea of manifestation.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Well I was a little bit in a way. I guess.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
No, I feel like I am a big manifesto I am. Yeah,
so that is crazy. I didn't even realize that until
right now.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yeah, I guess that's how it is for me too.
I had watched a really great interview with Nessa Barrett,
and she was essentially saying a lot of the same
things that you are, but she essentially had written her
last album aftercare of everything she just didn't have, and
all of a sudden, even with the music and lyrically,
(20:17):
everything just kind of fell into her lap in her
production and into her real life. So they almost falls
hand in hand. And I'm a big manifestor too, Like
I journal every single day, manifest everything I could possibly want,
and it's been falling in my lap. So just keep
up with that.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Hell yes, yeah, I think that is the best way
to be and also just be prepared. Like the one
thing that I read ages ago was like, the only
thing guaranteed in life is changed, and the only thing
we can control.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Is like how we react to it.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So that's like another thing I think about all the
time because it's like, fuck.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, everything life is. Life is scary.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What's exciting about it is the fact that you have
no idea what the fuck is gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I hate it, let's see.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I mean I love it good and bad. But you
know there are a couple of directions going with that.
It's funny what you said about the idea of is
their fuel left, because you also were just saying about
everything being subconscious. I've talked to so many writers about
the fact that, like music is a form of channeling,
you really can't cattrol it. So it's it's interesting the
(21:27):
idea of is their fuel left because the shit's gonna
come to you. I think the question is there's always
gonna be fuel left, are you willing to work with
it or not?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And I had to sit there and be like, ego death,
ego death, ego death, fucking okay, like get yourself, get
yourself together, bitch, like let's go, let's write some fucking
shit again.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And so yeah, like that's kind of what happened. And
a lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Said this album is very reminiscent of like a twenty
twenty five version of Run, which also felt similarly like
I had a similar energy actually when I was making it,
and I think that's an album that a lot of
people resonate with.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So we'll see.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean, I'm I think like the ecosystem to releasing
music these days is like very different to when I started.
And I'm not like a hater on it, but I
do feel sorry for anyone trying to start out now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
It's funny because sorry, I'm going to go for a second.
I was gonna say, it's funny because I've started doing
interviews again with a lot of new artists because if
I like my attitude was, if I don't do it
with the fuck will, no one is going to do
it anymore. But I want to go back to something
you said and then Donald and I'll let you take
over again in a second. But today you mentioned the
(22:48):
idea of not fitting in, and isn't that the nature
of artists in general is by nature, as an artist,
you do not fit in. And I remember Chris Cornell.
It was like, you know, Chris Cortnell should have been
in anywhere in this entire world. He wanted to best
looking guy in the world, Genie's songwriter, Genie s artist.
Everybody looked up to him. And he was telling me
(23:10):
that as this, all great front men come from outcasts.
They never come from the cool kids.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I'm definitely I definitely feel that, especially when I
think about high school. But yeah, I was never cool
and I still kind of like have that insecurity even backstage,
Like I feel like I'm in high school. So that's
why I always sit in my tray looks I feel
like insecure that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm not cool. It's like so weird. Yeah I don't.
It's yeah, I definitely don't feel cool. I know, I
don't think I ever will.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But yeah that's yeah, no one's even yeah, tots totes
get that. But I probably then would have been able
to sit in front of my computer and learn ableton
and how to produce and sit and play cello for
eight hours a day either if I was busy with friends.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
What is cool anyway?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I mean yeah, And I feel like cool is like
exhausting though, Like I remember someone I dated was just
so a long time ago, was so invested in what
was cool and who's cool and what's cool and the
coolest thing, and it was so exhausting for me to
watch and I just was like, I can't, It's like
(24:34):
draining me. I'd rather just like fucking sit in my
house and like make music and like be an inside
person like I'm probably was always made to be. But
you know, it was like jeez, like what's the cool
new brand, what's the coolest shoes I can wear?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And I'm like, fuck, this.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Is exhausting, you know, Like it was so exhausting to
me and going back to that, like, that's probably why
I wear the same fucking thing on stage that I've
worn since I started, because I don't want to think
about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Well, the other thing I was gonna say, and then Donovan,
I'll let you go to second, but I was gonna say,
this is something that I've talked about with so many
people as well, and both for male and female artists.
You know, I was talking about it with the dude
from five Seconds this summer not long ago. You know,
once you have a kid, your priorities totally shift in life,
and the idea of like, you know, what does someone
(25:31):
think about my music all of a sudden becomes who
gives a fuck as long as my kid is healthy?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No, I don't feel that way. I don't feel that
way it all. I still give a fuck. Sorry, sorry
five Seconds of Summer guy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I'm not talking about it with everybody, but that's fair
for you.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't feel that way at all. I still feel
like fuck.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I still it's like a complex, Like when you talk
about like the word cool, it's almost a competition. You
know what's cool, but then six months past and what
you thought was the coolest shit ever, Like Ala boo
boo is down the drain, like like.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
To buy chocolate leabooboo, like.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, exactly. It's like people, it's almost like a competition.
I feel like sometimes I don't really.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Care what it's cool, but I definitely still care if
people like it or not. And that's just I think
I just care too much. I've always cared too much.
Whenever I've collaborated with someone, I've always been the one
that's come out like caring too much about it and
them just living their life.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And it's painful for me.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, it's it's a I'm cursed with that. And even
with a kid, I probably care even more.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
It's I wish I could like be more nonchalant about
how I feel about my art, but I'm just not,
and like a kid has not changed that. And I
wish I was like the five seconds of Summer Guy,
but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I won't go about because I get I've had this
conversation with fucking everybody.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay, well I wish I was like everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Well, yes, I've always been that, and I think it
actually stems to me just getting bullied and being alone
at school because I just got like so like it
got really in my head.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
But then I also like there were some things I
didn't care about, Like I don't like I used to
get teased for my music taste, which was amazing music
tests back then, but like it wasn't cool to like
the popular kids, so I just like then I thought
that they were lame. I was like, oh, you're all lame.
So there were some things I really didn't care about,
like oh you think the Beatles are lame?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
You're lame.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Oh you think like Smashing Pumpkins a lame and you'd
rather listen to like fucking I don't know, justin Timberlay
like who is also really great whatever, like, but I'm
just saying, like the smash moments are amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
What are you talking about? So yeah, there are some
things where I was like, oh, you're wrong, You're just
just clearly wrong. But uh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That it's more just like the thing I care about
is not the cool. It's like if people care about
my art and if they like it, and I get
really sensitive about it, and I don't know why I
wish I didn't.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
The good news is though it's always cool to care,
it's the cool. The coolest thing you could ever do
is care.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Oh god, yeah, I got to It's like, definitely, I
wish I didn't like Yeah, I see like so many
of my friends like yeah, whatever, and I'm like, how
can you be yeah whatever?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
It's like the it's the honestly the worst duel and
sword of all time.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's the worst.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I don't want to be like.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I don't want someone to read this and think, oh,
like I wish I was like her and she didn't
care about anything, Like No, I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So in my head all the time for me time.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
But so this was kind of where I was going
to interact and see, uh, thank you for letting me
take over. But this kind of I guess both of
these fall hand in hand in this conversation. So you
had mentioned earlier about this album kind of the idea
of I'm not exactly sure where I fit in. I
personally only know a little bit of your discography, but
(29:18):
I do know a little bit about electronics. So number one,
my first question is with ghost World and you as
an artist being in hand, do you have you ever
attempted to I guess sit fit in a certain genre.
I guess not attempted, but yeah, like to me, like
Alice in Wonderland. When I think about it, and when
I've seen your live sets, the best thing about you
(29:40):
is that it doesn't really I don't think it's trap.
I'm not thinking it's base. I'm not thinking it's helps.
I'm thinking it's Alice in Wonderland. That was that something
that you had always wanted to accomplish, like just being.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I didn't again, like I just don't overthink. It definitely
gravitated to more like half time drums. But again it's
not a very direct genre, which is why I think
it's also very hot to define me like in the
land of playlists that now.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, that's that's kind of why i'd brought it up
as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's especially with how Spotify, I guess,
is rolling out and how it's working too. From my understanding, now,
people are putting when I guess, like solo publishers are
putting in certain genres so then they can be found
at the add to a playlist.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah I'm fucked then, I guess.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah. But also too, I really appreciate that you said
you're more of an album versus a single person, because
especially in the world that you're living in singles are
kind of the new thing again.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I know it's I'm making life difficult for myself.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
There was this kid, like I was very down about it,
and there was this kid that was opening for me
at a show and I think this was like maybe
his first ever show, and we'd just given him the
slot and he came to meet me backstage and he
was like.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Oh, what are you working on.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
I'm like, uh, an album, but like no one fucking
cares about that anymore. And he goes to me people
listen to singles for six months, but they listened to
albums forever, and it was like the most profound thing
that like a kid has ever said to me. And
I was like, fuck it, all right, yeah, fuck it,
let's ball, Let's make this fucking album.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
So I yeah, I think I will. I love I'm appreciated.
I'm a fan of albums. Like I don't listen to
just songs. I listened to albums for example, like this
year on repeat, I was listening to the Turnstile album,
like that's my favorite album of the year, and I
think it's like I think it's like so amazing. Like literally,
like when I was giving birth there like what song
(31:50):
do you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
What song do you want to play?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
And I'm like never Enough by Turnstile and Lalla Bye
by the Cure And my husband was like, do you
what That's what I want to hear when I'm giving birth.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Those are my songs.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Once he's out, birds starts playing, stops playing.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
No, I was literally like Lullaby by the Cure and
never Enough by turns Out and my husband's just like, Okay,
be sure you don't want to listen to like anything else.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I'm like no, I.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Mean also, I mean I personally am not a parent,
but to even go into that that I would want
to be listening to the like some knock loose or
something and get yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Right, like pump me up, Like I don't want some
like relaxing you know, whale noises or you know.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
It's like literally the most painful thing a woman could
go through. I'm like, I'm trying to listen to some
serious grindcore right now. Like I'm like, I wrestled a
bear Ones type shue.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
And the doctor was like, you want to listen to
a DJ mix? I'm like fuck no, well fucking DJ mix. No.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It's like came out every day, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So no, I I like to me also, like I'm
not a fan of just one genre. I'm a fan
of every type of music. And I've always been that way.
And I and as Steve knows, I have like a
very very deep knowledge of music of every genre. And
we've spoken about this many times in our interviews. Like,
so I think that, like I'm not it's like hard
for me to sit in one genre because like even
(33:22):
with electronic music, my go tos are not trap. My
go like hud some Mohawk and Rusty Sure, but like
the Knife, the Prodigy, like early fat Boy, Slim, you know,
fucking who else I'm trying to think, like who shaped
me electronically?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Those are the three that come to mind. Uh and
Yeah and hud some mohk.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You know, like and then like Outcast influenced me, Like
there's so many things that have influenced me, Like Kanye
influenced me.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Like I don't, like I don't even know if we allowed.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
To say that anymore, but you've got a Smith's.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, I mean I'm saying early Kanye.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's fair.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
And like you know, I'm not influenced by just like
one thing you know, like just not.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's also the first time ever. Well you did bring
it up once. But it's funny because I mean, I'm
surprised you didn't mention pumpkins, because you did.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I did, I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, but as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, yeah,
you and Billy now I remember.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I fucking love I love Smash Moments forever. But yeah,
Billy Corgan. I met him once. They were playing a
festival in Australia and I was like a support DJ
on one of the other stages. I think it was
twenty twelve, and I it was the same I think
it was the same year I jumped the fence and
(34:54):
like as a as a fan and met Lana del
Rey when she was wearing like the wedding like the
video games era. So yeah, anyway, but yes, Billy Corgan
I was. I saw he was like outside he was
I think he's having breakfast or something, and I was
DJing like a morning thing at a pub and I
saw him and I freaked out, and the promoter was like, oh,
(35:18):
I'll get you to meet him, and then him and
his manager invited me to have breakfast with him and
it was like I mean being bullied in school and
like your best friend is like the Siamese Dream album.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
And then like meeting.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Him was such like a crazy thing for me and
I'll never forget it. And I called my dad and
I was like hyperventilating. Me thought I was dying, But
I just met Billy Corgan.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Billy is also one of my favorite writers of all time.
That guy gets hurt of phrase in a way then
no one fucking can.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah. Yeah, this saw me with a smile.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Great lyric even just that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's an interesting as he told me. So the song
this time, I was like, I always love that song
so much and he's like, you know what, He's like,
it's interesting they picked that one out. He's like, that's
the last song I ever wrote with Smashing Pumpkins until
they got back together.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know who else? Side note is a great lyricist,
James Murphy.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, I love him. Yeah, I mean there's so many
great lyricists. Yeah, so wait, what's the while I'm looking
this up, it's like a.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Huge thing for me.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Paul's boutique is the reason I started like wanting to DJ.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
So there you go, Like my bedroom is kind of
like an album almost to me, like it's truly just
a collection of everything I've ever loved, And I just
keep the goat like the greatest of all time above
my bed.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's what I would do.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yes, this is like how honestly how I decorated my
animal Crossing Island is like.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
And then like these little guys back here, there's a
couple of artists in them, but they're a little bit
more like Emo asked Niche, like stuff I'd be listening
to on my daily basis. There's machine Girl up there,
static dress, all.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Right, But this is the lyric. It's in the song
this Time where he says, and I'm not going to
sing it because no one wants to hear that, But
when he says this time, I need to know. I
really must be told that it's over. I've lived my
life alone, my every step foretold to never linger, and
yet it haunts me. So whatever we let it go,
our spell is broken. Come on, that is so good?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
So everything, everything is so good everything, And didn't he
write like a bunch of stuff like all the best
whole songs?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Man? I would have loved to stat in the room
for that, because that's been a lot of time with Billy,
and I spent a lot of time with Courtney, and
I love them both as individuals. And the funny thing
is they're both just too smart. They get in their
own ways, so I imagine the egos in that room
must have been like a fucking nuclear explosion. And they're
(38:19):
both great people. I adore them both. But yeah, it's
no wonder they don't like each other.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Those whole songs be
fucking smashing though.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Live Through This, to me is one of the best
albums of the nineties. And I know this is sacrilege,
and I know other people will agree. I like it
way better than never Mind.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I Lived Through This is like what got me the
first stuff I listened to from them.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
So you know, what can I say?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
All right, but we can get out of music all day?
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I know, I feel.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So. And of course now you're a mom of two kids,
so you know what You're like, Yeah, I never get
to have a dull conversation anymore, and I'm like, no.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
No, no, this can never end. We have to talk all day.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Did you have another boy?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I did have another boy? Yeap, Oh my god, I know, I.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Know it's so funny because like I have this girlfriend
and she was like, how do you feel about having boys?
And I was like, it's so funny because you know,
I'm such a someone who is a woman in a
very male dominated world and industry and especially in my genre.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well you know.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, So it was like.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
I was just like, well, if anyone's going to be
the mother of two boys, it's going to be me,
because I'm going to teach them to respect the power
of the female. You know, I think that I think
that I'm the right person two points actually.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
You gotta teach them a listen and they're obsessed with
their mom yeah no, yeah, like then they're great.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
And Max, my eldest, is very obsessed. It's funny, like
he doesn't watch any kids TV. So like he watches
like Back to the Future and like loves Et. He's
only like two and a half and the only thing
he quotes is like Clint Eastwood from The Good, The
Bad and Ugly, Like he can do that whole monologue,
(40:33):
you know where he's like six shots or only five,
like he does that whole It's just like, yeah, he's
he's definitely he's never listened to a kid's nursery, Ryan
like his favorite. He loves Bill Collins and Billy Joel
and Charlie XCX and Tamin Paula.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
That's what he lives like already.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Know.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I was like, what's because I love Billy?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I said, I love this the second time you mentioned
Billy Joel one of me the most underrated songwriters of
all time. And even though he's like great, oh yeah,
he's not cool, but it's like.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Do you watch the documentary?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, that's the thing is like I watched the documentary
and I never realized people didn't think he was cool,
and I didn't realize he had so many people doubt
him and not know where he fit in. So really
the kind of like resonated with me, and I was like, well,
if Billy Joel felt that way, like then I validated
because he's I mean, like, you can't deny these songs like, uh,
(41:43):
you know, I don't know fucking Billy Joel's one of
one of the goats.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So wait, what's your favorite Billy song?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
For real?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
It depends what mood I'm in, Like, if I'm feeling party,
we didn't start the fire, that's always fun. My kid's
favorite is Uptown Girl because he likes the video clip
with what's her name, the model Christy By every time
(42:16):
she's on there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
He's like, so it tastes.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, I know. I'm like, all right, okay, well that's
gonna be a problem. Yeah. So I don't know. I piano, man,
I mean, you can't. It's just like everything's a.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Hit, honesty, everything. This song just kills me. Yeah, yes,
that is a perfect song. But going back to that
for a second, you know, you say, like, well, Billy
felt this way. I felt validated. But that's what I
was trying to say earlier. I mean, if you look
at every great artist and it's funny. I was talking
about this with my friend at Blue Note yesterday, Luna
(42:56):
at the club, and we're talking about Brian Wilson, right,
and Brian Wilson was God only Knows is the greatest
pop song of all time.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
God only Knows was supposed to be my wedding song
and it wasn't. That's my that was always supposed to
be your wedding song.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So whow isn't it?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Because we had Elvis sing us down the aisle?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Okay, but I love Elvis, but God only knows it's
the greatest pop song ever, but it is, I agree.
The reason I bring this up. The reason I bring
this up is because we were talking about this yesterday.
Brian was a fucking genius. And genius is an overused word,
but Brian was a genius in the sense of like
(43:40):
you know, true genius and you go all the way
back in time to like a Vinsu man Goo. Geniuses
have never been appreciated and they've always been driven crazy.
So as an artist, it's almost like the smarter you are,
the less you fit in.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah, it's funny because there's like so many artists that
I think are too smart for crowd, and like when
I listen to their music, I'm like, fuck, like no
one knows, like no one's getting this correctly, but they
will one day. There's like so many artists I feel
that way about.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Billy is definitely one of those.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah, it's crazy because like even and I look at
so many like I look at so many artists that
people didn't get for so long and then it finally clicked.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
But it's just because they.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I mean, they went, they just kept going, which is
also very like I'm always inspired by that Turnstile being
any example of that, Charlie XCX being an example of that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You know, I've known Charlie to be in this industry.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
For way longer than anyone else, and that's why she's
so fucking good. But people finally, like the masses finally
got it and it clicked, and it's very inspiring to see.
And I always feel really happy for people like that
because it is you know, there's lyrics in like her
album Brat where it was kind of like, fuck, like
(45:04):
do I keep doing this or do I just like
go and have a kid?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Like you know, stuff like that really resonated.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Nick fucking Gave who you know, like didn't start headlining
arena until he was over sixty.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
Yeah, I mean I often wonder if it would be
the same if you're a woman like I. Often I
sit and I've had this talk with my husband, who's
a director, so he's like in film and his career
is like kind of he could do this till he
(45:44):
was eighty and still get taken seriously in the same way,
And sometimes I wonder if I could do it until
I was eighty.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I say that if you look at Patty Smith, right,
why I love and Patty Smith has always been like
but now that you know, because of her books as well,
like people love her. But now all of a sudden,
at seventy seven or seventy six, however old she is,
she's now like a couple of years ago she had
(46:13):
the cover of fucking Vogue or a couple of l
this year she did the Colbert Report, she had CBS
Sunday Morning. It's like at seventies. So yes, she's an
example of how as a woman, if you stick around
long enough, people will appreciate you in the same way
because like it should. Like you look at someone like
Leonard Cohen for example, right, Lennon Cohen was always brilliant.
(46:35):
It wasn't until like he was almost eighty. Then all
of a sudden he's doing like the Sunset Spot at
Coachella and everybody's like, oh my god, Leonard Cohen, You're
so genius. And it's like the motherfucker wrote Halleluja in
the sixties. He was always genius. Yeah, pick it up
for years. So yes, I do think as a woman,
you know you can't.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I often wonder like have I outgrown Alison?
Speaker 3 (46:58):
And should I just be doing White Fang and where
do I go from here? And like who am I
as an artist? And I you know that a lot
of that is written in this album too. There's a
song called is This the End at the end of
My album, which is like my ego death song, which
I wrote in five minutes, and it was like the
whole song is me admitting like, okay, girl, you're not
(47:21):
the shiny new thing anymore and you're signing to feel
replaceable and you're admitting that to the world. And that
is a scary thing to write about because it's how
I feel and was feeling. And yeah, like I uh,
I left that song to the end because I'm too
scared to like put it in a limelight because it
(47:42):
is quite an embarrassing song to write. But it's truly
like a lot of how I've been feeling, and it's.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Like do I keep going?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
And it's and I talk about, you know, I think
back to the times where I was fine, and you know,
when I'm overwhelmed, I have to kind of just like
think about that, and that's like is there still fuel
in the tank?
Speaker 2 (48:03):
But you know, like the whole thing is like I I'm.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Now at parties and I'm not like the girl everyone
comes to talk to first, and it's just like a
you know, it was like a really crazy song to.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Write and admit and makes me quite emotional.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So yeah, and then you know, like there's a lot
of songs on the album where you know, I have
had to have a sense of humor about things, like
again Fuck is a very serious subject matter that I
took and thought, well, if I don't have a sense
of humor about this, I'm going to implode. And it
was about my fourth miscarriage. I don't know why I'm laughing,
(48:41):
but like again, like I just had to, uh had
to had to kind of I couldn't be so serious
about this because it was just too much for me
at the time. And then after I wrote again, Fuck
is when I wrote, like, basically in those two weeks,
I want to live in a dream, which was just
(49:02):
about wanting to escape the reality I was living in
at the time.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Is this the end? Floating away? Again? Fuck?
Speaker 6 (49:14):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Get Started was another one again Fuck? What else was
that I wrote there?
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Everything comes in waves and let me just go through
see if I've missed anything. But there was like a
two week period where there was like a bunch of
shit that was written, where is my track list? Let
me just see because I don't want to uh yeah
my mom.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yes. So it was like get started, I.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Want to live in a dream. Everything comes in waves again?
Fuck floating away?
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Is this the end? That was all written in like
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
And then ghost World was a last thing that I wrote,
and it was just the intro and I thought, like,
how sonically do I hear this album being introduced into
the world.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And I was just like.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Sing to Tangerine Dream and John Carpenter and like another
thing that was influenced by the those sense was like
the that Goblin track from the seventies Suspiria movie, like
from the old Suspia movie. And I was like, well,
I can't put my voice on this because it just
feels too like present with who I am. So I
got my kid to actually do the vocals for the
(50:22):
first song because I'm like, what's the most like innocent,
non biased voice I can think of? And it's a child,
So I put him on there. Nepo Baby.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
I wanted to ask you, like I said, coming into this,
I only know a handful of your work. Funny enough,
I did know that you got married in Vegas I
did see that you're looking that it's impossible to get
married anywhere. It's too expensive, So I didn't know that.
But your collaborators on this album are all all standouts
(51:11):
to me. DJ Dave, I'm gonna butcher her name, but Nina,
how do you need? And obviously White playing in member
like Insane Insane.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Cori and Eric the architects from Flatquish Zombies.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Oh yeah, We've got him out because he's like one
of my closest friends.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
And I just think, yeah, I am on this album myself.
So all of those people I hit up and I'm like,
I love you, let's work on this together. And again,
like working with DJ Dave and Nina were really it
was really cathotic for me because I love working with
female produces and they're both like that, I think the geniuses.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
So I think.
Speaker 4 (51:58):
I'm obsessed with them, like I DJ Dave and her
like right now, at least for me being a listener
rather than being a producer, because girl, I don't I
can't play unable to like you you can. But I
was vocalists.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, but it's crazy because DJ Dave said to me.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Like, how did you know we were both going to
pop off like and I'm like, I don't know, I've
just been I'm I'm a good The reason I'm a
good DJ is like because I'm a good A and
R like I know what like my hate, Like I
can see what's going to work.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
And Uh, working with both of.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Them was like an absolute dream, like so easy creatively,
like ten out of ten, we'll do again.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
I wanted to tap in a little bit to DJ Dave,
especially since kind of her main thing from my knowledge
is that she's been like playing live, coding live. So
how was writing that specific song with her, especially with
the craft that she's kind of developed.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
So I had already written like the vocals and the
call words and the synths and stuff, and then I
sent her the stems to put into like her coding
uh for her to code or like to produce with
her coding software. And then she like added to it
and then put her vocals in the second verse, and
(53:17):
then we put our vocals together in the chorus, and.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Then we collaborated with the part she sent me.
Speaker 3 (53:24):
And put them all together and they fit like a
puzzle and it was beautiful and perfect and easy.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Oh voices, Yeah, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
It's it's crazy track and she's just a dream, she's a.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Dull a lover.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
And yeah, we we're definitely going to be writing more
together because it was like so easy and so so creative,
like it was it felt so good working with her,
and like, the thing I love about electronic music is
it's so one on one with technology, and technology is
ever changing and ever evolving, so it's such a it
(54:09):
like a like it's always electronic music is always going
to be new because there's always new things getting added
with technology, and this the life and the coding that
she does and all of that is like so new
to me. So it's like I get excited when I
see something that I had that I've never seen before.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
And I imagine that's what.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
That's like my closest feeling to being childlike again, because
for me, like a child is always discovering things for
the first time. So that's why I like, I love
this genre, That's why I love working with technology, and
I love meeting people that are just so inspiring and
new and like fresh. And yet she just felt like
(54:51):
just we did we did a like a live stream
together and just watching her on Strudle, which is the program.
I was just like, this is incredible and it was
so inspiring, and it was such like a different way
of producing where I'm so much more like, uh, like intentional,
(55:13):
you know. It's like for her, it's more just coding
and seeing what comes out and like vibing off it.
And it was just really cool. I was blown away. Yeah,
she's she's incredible.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
Is that's so awesome? That was what you said? Made
a really good point to be child again, to be inspired,
because when I had first seen her, I was like,
no way, how do you fit all that in your brain? Yes,
she's amazing, Like she's a genius, You're so smart.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, she's amazing, Like no I. And so it was
funny because I approached both her and.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Nina before they started kind of blowing up, uh, because
I'm hyper aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
And I was just so inspired and like drawn to
these these women.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
And I think also since kind of like going through
birth and all that, my love for for women has
ten has like grown tenfold, and I want to be
around that energy a lot more. And yeah, it was
really cool to work with them, and I definitely want
(56:29):
We're all probably going to be working again together, so
for sure.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Well I imagine the other thing is collaborating, you know.
It always like keeps things new. You get to see
how someone else works. It like you know, teaches you
new things as well.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (56:47):
And like again like that's why like seeing things for
the first time, Like I'm like, oh, this is inspiring
to me and it sparks something in my brain.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
And it was funny. Like someone said to me the.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Other day, like being a musician is the longest career
you can have when you think about it, because you
can always keep doing that even if you're like ninety
in like calm move.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
I thought, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
So yeah, I hopefully I can do it until then,
but I do get scared.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
That's the summary of this interview.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Well, since we've weeks the summary of this interview and
we have taken an hour of your time, we're gonna
let you go unless you want to add that.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
You know, no, I think that this is a delightful
chat as always and always. Donovan is your name Donavich
for it is?
Speaker 4 (57:42):
That is my legal name.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yes, I'd love it.
Speaker 4 (57:46):
Thank you. Shout out my parents.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
They did a good job, you know. Honestly, like naming
a kid is so hectic.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah, so for me, my parents didn't know if I
was going to be a boy or a girl. Like
they just waited all the way till the end. So
Donathan was the set name either way.
Speaker 3 (58:03):
Oh okay, we were gonna call and second maybe something,
and then he came out and didn't look like it, so.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
It like, oh fuck, we had somethinking again.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
And that happened with my young I have a younger brother,
we're fifteen months apart. His name is Beckett, but that
was the they did the same thing. So he's obviously
a boy, but girl our boy, it was.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Going to be the same. I love that.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah, we It's funny because like with both of our kids,
like we had it on the name and then like
they both came out like they don't look like that,
and so we had to like last minute change it
to something that wasn't even on the list, and they
both like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
So I don't know. Hopefully I looked, Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (58:44):
Thank you so much for having me. Uh, this is
one of the coolest things I've ever gotten to do.
I've always wanted to talk to a woman in electronic,
especially since it's something I've recently entered into. I kind
of grew up more of an emo kid, but I
got my foot in by funny enough, bartending a eightym
(59:04):
club here back home. I'm based out of Phoenix, by
the way, so we'll on this like, okay, yeah, yeah,
that's like my home company that like, I work with
pretty frequently. But I'm just finally so honored to get
to talk to someone who plays such a big role
in this field. And thank you from a girl to
another for us you have contributed and continue to contribute
(59:28):
forever and always.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
When I'm eighty, I want to be smoking SIGs like
and like I want wed colored hair.
Speaker 4 (59:33):
Don't worry, I'll be outsize stage with the lighter and yes.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
Okay, that's my goal is I just want to be
just like.
Speaker 4 (59:38):
I'll be there. I'll see I'll see you could sell
twenty twenty sixty five, three twenty five, all right, I'll
see you then, girl,
Hey, the Steve Balton and this week on in Service AUP,
I'm joined by the incomparable Allis in Wonderland. I have
known Alison for years, always loved talking to hers. You
can hear this really fun, free flowing conversation in celebration
of her new album, Ghost World. Alison is incredibly excited
(00:28):
to have this out. We were also joined in this
conversation by electronic music expert Donovan Winter, who, as you
can hear, is also very excited for the album. This
is a really fun talk. I love Alison. She always
is so open, so candid, and I hope you enjoyed
this one as much as we did. I've been asking
(01:02):
everybody their favorite lyric, and I'm doing this four round
up piece where like I don't know everybody from like
random people like Khidas and Camera Crow, so like different
rock stars have answered. So that's how we're gonna start.
What is your favorite lyric?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Ever?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, you know what's really weird is recently a lyric
that I've heard forever actually really got me while I
was playing a show, and it was a radiohead lyric.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And I actually.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Haven't shared this publicly, but my dog passed away this
year and it has been.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Really hard for me.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And I was on stage about two weeks after it happened,
and she'd been with me for about fourteen years, so
you know, and everything in its right place started playing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And I just bowled like what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And I just it was like, you know, everything's in
its right place, and so yeah, for me, at the moment,
everything in its right place.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Everything, and it's right.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I was just like.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thinking about my dog dying and thinking or maybe it
was just the right time.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So I think that's a good lyric.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That is like the most traumatic thing now, you know,
literally lost my mom right and I actually had a
harder time losing my dog, and I felt really guilty
and then someone explained it to me, and it makes
so much sense. You have no baggage with your dog.
Your dog is just unconditional love. Parents. Of course you
have issues with you know, you've had on and ah,
(02:37):
you know, but dog is just like unconditional. So I
get it. So I'm sorry. It's a terrible thing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I actually truly haven't publicly shared it until now because
a lot of people knew my dog, and yeah, it
was it's just it was out of nowhere as well,
like literally was fine and then thirty seconds later was dead.
It was bizarre, and it was just she had a
(03:03):
like a like a blood clot or something that we
didn't have. And anyway, Yeah, so the radiohead Everything in
Its Right Place was playing and I just started bawling,
and I started thinking about my dog and thinking, oh
maybe you know the thinking oh well, at least it
was her choice.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And she was in my husband's arms at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And it was just like a very like profound realization
of a lyric that I've heard my entire life, and
then I just it just clicked for me, which is amazing.
And that's why music's amazing, because it's so eternal, and
you can always redefine how you feel listening to a
lyric when you grow or you can just that's why
(03:42):
art's awesome, because it's it's you know, the it's about
how you visualize what this person's made and it can
mean anything to you. So yeah, that's probably a lyric
that recently has has struck with me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's interesting though you had that experience, because I was
talking with Luke from Empire of the Sun earlier this year.
I'm sure you've known forever. And you know, he lost
his dad this year, and we were talking about for
him how cathartic it was being on stage and having
twenty thousand people sitting back to him while he was
like dealing with his dad's dead. So I'm sure being
(04:18):
on stage at that moment hearing this there was a
level of catharsis for you. And then we're gonna switch
topics in the second because nothing fucking bumps me out
more than dead pets.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's the worst, man, I like, I had like it
was terrible.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Because we were just like fine, and then the next
minute we're driving to a crematorium and we're just like, what's.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So It's so surreal how fast it happened.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Out of she was fine and then she made a
weird noise.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
My husband picked her up and she just went and
we're like, you know, and I'm like waiting for her
to blink, and it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Just and it was horrible.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And then the next day we get the ashes back
and they'd taken her poor prince, and it was just
really horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And now her poor prince next to ourbed, so terrible.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm so sorry, dude, pet death.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Man? I never had it's awful, dude, and then like
having to come home and seeing like her bowls everywhere
and not hearing the jingling of the.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Collar was like the silence was so loud. And my
husband said this one thing, which was how can such
a small thing take up so much space?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And I was like, oh, so profound.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So yeah, anyway, sorry, I feel like we started the
interview in such a bummer, but yes, yes, oh you're fine.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We'll switch gears for a second because it's funny. I
was looking at the last one we did two years
ago when you do White Fang at Coachella, and you
talked a lot about the fact that, you know, being
pregnant really inspired you creatively. So did number two also
about a lot of creativity.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, I made the way pattern. Oh yeah, no, I know.
I'm like, I just had a baby like the other day,
and here we.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Are saying congratulations, thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
He's really chill, so that's good.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But yeah, I made quite a lot of the album pregnant,
and I've done the same with White Fang. And I
think when you're creating a whole life in your body,
it makes you feel very powerful and creative all around.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
If you are a creative person. Well, I personally found
it that way, and I was very inspired.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Musically and just in like the headspace that I was in,
and yeah, it was it really kind of I don't know.
It's like this extra energy, this extra little soul in
your body, that's that's adding adding another layer.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's very strange. And then once you have.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
The child out in the world, you're just like, I
can never be whack. So it makes you want to
keep going and do your best. So it's you know,
I was told so many times if you have a kid,
your career is over. You're not going to feel motivated,
You're not going to feel creative, and it's just bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I just want to put it out there. It's bullshit.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Well it's definitely agree.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh go ahead for zam.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Oh no, sorry, I was just saying heavily agree because
before this I had a couple of questions read it
out for you, but a lot of them were too,
like kind of dealing with that you just having your
second child, how that influenced you. I even wrote that
down that was so profound creating while creating, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I mean, chuck, because I was, you know, there was
a time where I thought I would never be able
to have children, and I had quite a few issues.
And in Lona, which was the Alison Wonderland album that
I wrote. It came out in twenty two, there's a
there was a lyric in one of my songs saying like,
if I'm such a creator, I can't I make you?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I was like, I don't understand if I'm like.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
My whole life has been I create things, and I
just can't create like the one thing I want, which
is a child. And then eventually it happened with a
lot of work. But yeah, once that's happening, it's like, well,
no one can fuck with me now because.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I'm literally creating a human.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
So I think it's a very archaic narrative that a
woman's life and career is over once they have a child.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And I think you can do both.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And I'm extremely attentive to both my kids, and I'm
I work from home and they sit in the studio
with me. I mean, the other one's so new, who knows,
but the other one max sits in the studio with me.
And I also have like a super supportive partner, which
really helps. And yeah, like it's just it's just bullshit
(08:55):
that you lose your identity. I think people have been
told that, and for me, I never felt that way.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, there are so many great as though that I
talked to you that have had kids at this point.
I mean, everybody from Patty Smith to Sarah Gloughlin too.
I mean, so it's interesting. Certainly, there's like, are there
people that you've watched or talked to and wait, I'm
going to come back to that to say, but first
I want to go back to the line you mentioned
from Loner about if I'm such great a great, if
I'm such a great creator, why can't I create you?
(09:26):
Because it's really funny. This has been like inspiring me
a lot lately. I spoke, you know, with Shnead O'Connor,
you know, multiple times before she died, and Shanade was brilliant.
I also spoke with Nick Cave, who's also brilliant, and
one thing we talked about, you know, in separate interviews,
was how much songwriting can manifest things, how much it
(09:48):
can bring things to life. And Shanead in particular was like,
you need to care for what you write about because
you know, like it will come true. So it's very
interesting for you.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I actually really don't write.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I truly believe that because with Lona, that whole album
was a manifestation album for me where I was in
like a super dark place and all of those songs
were about me not victimizing that part of me and
that it was like it was going to be okay.
And the whole album was actually a very hopeful album
for me and quite a like stepping into my power album.
(10:24):
And I truly manifested stuff through it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I believe that, and I'm very superstitious about it.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So there are some things I don't really touch when
I'm writing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Interesting, So what are the things you will not touch?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't even talk about it. I'm like verisious about it.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And that's really funny because no one's ever asked me that.
And there are some topics where I just don't want
to manifest them, so I don't say it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So let's see then, since we started off on a bummer,
let's be optimistic. So what were the things you wrote
about on this album manifested or that you really want
to manifest on ghost World?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Okay, so this album for me is trying to like
I do feel a little displaced in my industry, and
I always really have like I'm not really sure where
I fit in as an as like an artist, and
it's been you know, I feel like, you know, I
haven't been an industry darling ever. I've never really had
(11:28):
like the public respect from peers that I respect. It's
and it's not a complaint. It just is what it is.
Some people get me and some people don't. And I
think I have been a little polarizing in terms of
people even trying to understand me, just basically of like
you know, in the past, when I started out, I
was getting defined as like a girl DJ, and it's
(11:49):
just like not that's like a tip of the iceberg
of what I am as an artist. And so it's
really felt like I'm wondering in this limbo of where
do I fit in in the industry. So what I
did with this album is I just made my own world,
ghost world, because you know, I actually didn't have a
(12:10):
name for the album until kind of earlier this year,
just before I put out the first single, and I
didn't know what to call it, and I played all
the songs to my husband and I was like, I
don't know what to call this, and he's like, well,
every single song is about you not really being sure
about where you fit or what you know or who
(12:30):
you are, and like what other people define you as and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Where you're going. So it feels like you're a bit
of a ghost, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
And I thought, oh, yeah, it does, and so I
I just wanted to I was like, screw it, I'm
going to create this universe for myself.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, because I just there was there was almost no.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Album because I wasn't really uh feeling it, and I
wasn't sure who Alice in Wonderland was at the time,
and I was feeling quite uninspired by myself and lost
(13:18):
and not in a bad way.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Just I think a lot of artists go through this.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And then I just honestly, there were about five or
six songs that I wrote in two.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Weeks after I made the decision to go is.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I was watching this Billy Joel interview and he had
said that there were many times he wanted to stop
and he would ask himself, is there still fuel in
the tank? I think he said, and I just went,
is there still fuel in the tank? And I had
just you know, sold out my I don't know how
many Red Rocks it was, but my I've played Red
(13:51):
Rocks many times without putting an album out that year,
and I think.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I said, well, there is fuel in the tank.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I have fans, I have people I listened to my
music and fuck it like I'm gonna go hard or
go home basically with this album, and I a and ard.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The whole album myself and.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Just chose to collaborate with people that I was truly
a fan of, that where we understood each other as
artists and I was quite the thing that was really
inspiring me creatively was the fact that I got to.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do whatever I wanted with the White Fang album.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So I just was like, I'm bringing that energy to
the AW album. I'm going to write the songs, I'm
going to sing on it, but I'm making whatever the
fuck I want, and like there's gonna be no external voices,
and cut to me being able to play twelve of
the fourteen songs already live in my sets and then
fitting in you know it just it made sense.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Like I think Lona was a.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Very introverted album for me which I needed to write,
and so this one was a little bit more like,
well fuck everyone like his and album that I really
fucking mean, and there's this is the world I'm building
for myself and if you understand it, you're invited to
this world. And if you don't, that's also really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Have fun. I'm not like I had to just be
at peace with that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And you know, I think this album's a little bit
of an ego death for me when I was writing it,
because you know, I've had over a decade, way over
a decade of a really great career so far, and
I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And I just think, you know, when.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You've been around for this song, you need to have
a bit of an ego death to be able to
bring yourself back.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Up again creatively. And that's kind of what happened to
me writing this.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Let me interject and ask a question. First off, I
love hearing everything that you have to say. The first
thing I have to ask is, when let's take Luner
for example, versus this Ghost World project. Do I guess
when you say like, do you kind of almost conceptualize
sometimes your work beforehand? Like you were saying, this is
(16:22):
kind of more like for me, for example, I always
work with working titles first to kind of visualize the
world that I want to be in. Did this kind
of all follow or fall in your hands track by
track rather than kind of trying to attempt to write
an album all the way through? Was it more of
a collective piece together album?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I guess I would say with all my albums creatively,
I never start with a concept because for me, Hello, sorry,
my kid.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Just walked in. You want to say, hi, Okay, sorry,
this is Mac.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
No, it's not Connor, this is Steve. You say hi,
it's my twin. Right, it's not Connor, it's Steve.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But you're gonna go You're gonna go play with your trains.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Sorry, So sorry if I worded that question.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We are.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
It's actually a great question because, like it's something that Garth,
my manager, and I have always talked about. I never
go into an album with a concept because for me,
when I'm writing lyrics or a song, it kind of
like appears from my soul and there's no preconceived notion to.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Me writing it. And that's why I like it, because
it's so therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's like I'm getting possessed by my brain and my
subconscious when I'm writing.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Also, so I write like a bunch.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Of stuff, and then at the end, I'm like, oh,
this is the capsule collection of this part of my life,
and then it'll kind of comes to me. I'm a
very like, I'm very intuitive when I create, so there's
I never have like a plan. I just sit and write,
and if it feels like an.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Album, there's an album there.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And you know, with this one, it really just felt
like an album. And I'm a I'm an album artist.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I always will be.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I don't I'm very bad at just singles because I
don't understand how I can't have a narrative.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I wish I was a single artist because I feel
like they are doing better now.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
But I love albums and and so for me, an
album is like a time capsule, a collective of a moment,
of a piece of like what I've been going through,
and a story.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
But at the start, there's nothing, there's no thought.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And and the best thing Garth, my manager said, who
you know, we've been together forever, was just don't overthink
it when you when you're in the studio, don't think.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's very like primal and intuitive, and then I sit back,
like once all the the little ideas are written and
I'm just like, oh, okay. So, when you know, ghost
World was getting written, I didn't have a concept. So
when my husband, who like literally knows nothing about electronic music,
was sitting there, I was like, here's all the songs,
(19:15):
and he like and he listened to it and went, oh, okay,
this is what it's about. Because I couldn't even really
see this one. And then he was like, oh, it
just sounds like you don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Where you fit in.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
This is what the whole album's about, and you're a
bit you're just trying to fit in, but you don't,
so you have to be okay with it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So like that's what I was interjecting about earlier, is
like everything that you're saying kind of ends up falling
hand in hand with the idea of manifestation.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Well I was a little bit in a way. I guess.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
No, I feel like I am a big manifesto I am. Yeah,
so that is crazy. I didn't even realize that until
right now.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yeah, I guess that's how it is for me too.
I had watched a really great interview with Nessa Barrett,
and she was essentially saying a lot of the same
things that you are, but she essentially had written her
last album aftercare of everything she just didn't have, and
all of a sudden, even with the music and lyrically,
(20:17):
everything just kind of fell into her lap in her
production and into her real life. So they almost falls
hand in hand. And I'm a big manifestor too, Like
I journal every single day, manifest everything I could possibly want,
and it's been falling in my lap. So just keep
up with that.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Hell yes, yeah, I think that is the best way
to be and also just be prepared. Like the one
thing that I read ages ago was like, the only
thing guaranteed in life is changed, and the only thing
we can control.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Is like how we react to it.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So that's like another thing I think about all the
time because it's like, fuck.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, everything life is. Life is scary.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What's exciting about it is the fact that you have
no idea what the fuck is gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I hate it, let's see.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I mean I love it good and bad. But you
know there are a couple of directions going with that.
It's funny what you said about the idea of is
their fuel left, because you also were just saying about
everything being subconscious. I've talked to so many writers about
the fact that, like music is a form of channeling,
you really can't cattrol it. So it's it's interesting the
(21:27):
idea of is their fuel left because the shit's gonna
come to you. I think the question is there's always
gonna be fuel left, are you willing to work with
it or not?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And I had to sit there and be like, ego death,
ego death, ego death, fucking okay, like get yourself, get
yourself together, bitch, like let's go, let's write some fucking
shit again.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And so yeah, like that's kind of what happened. And
a lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Said this album is very reminiscent of like a twenty
twenty five version of Run, which also felt similarly like
I had a similar energy actually when I was making it,
and I think that's an album that a lot of
people resonate with.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So we'll see.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean, I'm I think like the ecosystem to releasing
music these days is like very different to when I started.
And I'm not like a hater on it, but I
do feel sorry for anyone trying to start out now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
It's funny because sorry, I'm going to go for a second.
I was gonna say, it's funny because I've started doing
interviews again with a lot of new artists because if
I like my attitude was, if I don't do it
with the fuck will, no one is going to do
it anymore. But I want to go back to something
you said and then Donald and I'll let you take
over again in a second. But today you mentioned the
(22:48):
idea of not fitting in, and isn't that the nature
of artists in general is by nature, as an artist,
you do not fit in. And I remember Chris Cornell.
It was like, you know, Chris Cortnell should have been
in anywhere in this entire world. He wanted to best
looking guy in the world, Genie's songwriter, Genie s artist.
Everybody looked up to him. And he was telling me
(23:10):
that as this, all great front men come from outcasts.
They never come from the cool kids.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I'm definitely I definitely feel that, especially when I
think about high school. But yeah, I was never cool
and I still kind of like have that insecurity even backstage,
Like I feel like I'm in high school. So that's
why I always sit in my tray looks I feel
like insecure that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm not cool. It's like so weird. Yeah I don't.
It's yeah, I definitely don't feel cool. I know, I
don't think I ever will.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But yeah that's yeah, no one's even yeah, tots totes
get that. But I probably then would have been able
to sit in front of my computer and learn ableton
and how to produce and sit and play cello for
eight hours a day either if I was busy with friends.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
What is cool anyway?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I mean yeah, And I feel like cool is like
exhausting though, Like I remember someone I dated was just
so a long time ago, was so invested in what
was cool and who's cool and what's cool and the
coolest thing, and it was so exhausting for me to
watch and I just was like, I can't, It's like
(24:34):
draining me. I'd rather just like fucking sit in my
house and like make music and like be an inside
person like I'm probably was always made to be. But
you know, it was like jeez, like what's the cool
new brand, what's the coolest shoes I can wear?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And I'm like, fuck, this.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Is exhausting, you know, Like it was so exhausting to
me and going back to that, like, that's probably why
I wear the same fucking thing on stage that I've
worn since I started, because I don't want to think
about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Well, the other thing I was gonna say, and then Donovan,
I'll let you go to second, but I was gonna say,
this is something that I've talked about with so many
people as well, and both for male and female artists.
You know, I was talking about it with the dude
from five Seconds this summer not long ago. You know,
once you have a kid, your priorities totally shift in life,
and the idea of like, you know, what does someone
(25:31):
think about my music all of a sudden becomes who
gives a fuck as long as my kid is healthy?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No, I don't feel that way. I don't feel that
way it all. I still give a fuck. Sorry, sorry
five Seconds of Summer guy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I'm not talking about it with everybody, but that's fair
for you.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't feel that way at all. I still feel
like fuck.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I still it's like a complex, Like when you talk
about like the word cool, it's almost a competition. You
know what's cool, but then six months past and what
you thought was the coolest shit ever, Like Ala boo
boo is down the drain, like like.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
To buy chocolate leabooboo, like.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, exactly. It's like people, it's almost like a competition.
I feel like sometimes I don't really.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Care what it's cool, but I definitely still care if
people like it or not. And that's just I think
I just care too much. I've always cared too much.
Whenever I've collaborated with someone, I've always been the one
that's come out like caring too much about it and
them just living their life.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And it's painful for me.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, it's it's a I'm cursed with that. And even
with a kid, I probably care even more.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
It's I wish I could like be more nonchalant about
how I feel about my art, but I'm just not,
and like a kid has not changed that. And I
wish I was like the five seconds of Summer Guy,
but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I won't go about because I get I've had this
conversation with fucking everybody.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay, well I wish I was like everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Well, yes, I've always been that, and I think it
actually stems to me just getting bullied and being alone
at school because I just got like so like it
got really in my head.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
But then I also like there were some things I
didn't care about, Like I don't like I used to
get teased for my music taste, which was amazing music
tests back then, but like it wasn't cool to like
the popular kids, so I just like then I thought
that they were lame. I was like, oh, you're all lame.
So there were some things I really didn't care about,
like oh you think the Beatles are lame?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
You're lame.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Oh you think like Smashing Pumpkins a lame and you'd
rather listen to like fucking I don't know, justin Timberlay
like who is also really great whatever, like, but I'm
just saying, like the smash moments are amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
What are you talking about? So yeah, there are some
things where I was like, oh, you're wrong, You're just
just clearly wrong. But uh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That it's more just like the thing I care about
is not the cool. It's like if people care about
my art and if they like it, and I get
really sensitive about it, and I don't know why I
wish I didn't.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
The good news is though it's always cool to care,
it's the cool. The coolest thing you could ever do
is care.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Oh god, yeah, I got to It's like, definitely, I
wish I didn't like Yeah, I see like so many
of my friends like yeah, whatever, and I'm like, how
can you be yeah whatever?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
It's like the it's the honestly the worst duel and
sword of all time.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's the worst.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I don't want to be like.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I don't want someone to read this and think, oh,
like I wish I was like her and she didn't
care about anything, Like No, I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So in my head all the time for me time.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
But so this was kind of where I was going
to interact and see, uh, thank you for letting me
take over. But this kind of I guess both of
these fall hand in hand in this conversation. So you
had mentioned earlier about this album kind of the idea
of I'm not exactly sure where I fit in. I
personally only know a little bit of your discography, but
(29:18):
I do know a little bit about electronics. So number one,
my first question is with ghost World and you as
an artist being in hand, do you have you ever
attempted to I guess sit fit in a certain genre.
I guess not attempted, but yeah, like to me, like
Alice in Wonderland. When I think about it, and when
I've seen your live sets, the best thing about you
(29:40):
is that it doesn't really I don't think it's trap.
I'm not thinking it's base. I'm not thinking it's helps.
I'm thinking it's Alice in Wonderland. That was that something
that you had always wanted to accomplish, like just being.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I didn't again, like I just don't overthink. It definitely
gravitated to more like half time drums. But again it's
not a very direct genre, which is why I think
it's also very hot to define me like in the
land of playlists that now.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, that's that's kind of why i'd brought it up
as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's especially with how Spotify, I guess,
is rolling out and how it's working too. From my understanding, now,
people are putting when I guess, like solo publishers are
putting in certain genres so then they can be found
at the add to a playlist.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah I'm fucked then, I guess.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah. But also too, I really appreciate that you said
you're more of an album versus a single person, because
especially in the world that you're living in singles are
kind of the new thing again.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I know it's I'm making life difficult for myself.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
There was this kid, like I was very down about it,
and there was this kid that was opening for me
at a show and I think this was like maybe
his first ever show, and we'd just given him the
slot and he came to meet me backstage and he
was like.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Oh, what are you working on.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
I'm like, uh, an album, but like no one fucking
cares about that anymore. And he goes to me people
listen to singles for six months, but they listened to
albums forever, and it was like the most profound thing
that like a kid has ever said to me. And
I was like, fuck it, all right, yeah, fuck it,
let's ball, Let's make this fucking album.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
So I yeah, I think I will. I love I'm appreciated.
I'm a fan of albums. Like I don't listen to
just songs. I listened to albums for example, like this
year on repeat, I was listening to the Turnstile album,
like that's my favorite album of the year, and I
think it's like I think it's like so amazing. Like literally,
like when I was giving birth there like what song
(31:50):
do you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
What song do you want to play?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
And I'm like never Enough by Turnstile and Lalla Bye
by the Cure And my husband was like, do you
what That's what I want to hear when I'm giving birth.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Those are my songs.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Once he's out, birds starts playing, stops playing.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
No, I was literally like Lullaby by the Cure and
never Enough by turns Out and my husband's just like, Okay,
be sure you don't want to listen to like anything else.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I'm like no, I.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Mean also, I mean I personally am not a parent,
but to even go into that that I would want
to be listening to the like some knock loose or
something and get yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Right, like pump me up, Like I don't want some
like relaxing you know, whale noises or you know.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
It's like literally the most painful thing a woman could
go through. I'm like, I'm trying to listen to some
serious grindcore right now. Like I'm like, I wrestled a
bear Ones type shue.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
And the doctor was like, you want to listen to
a DJ mix? I'm like fuck no, well fucking DJ mix. No.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It's like came out every day, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So no, I I like to me also, like I'm
not a fan of just one genre. I'm a fan
of every type of music. And I've always been that way.
And I and as Steve knows, I have like a
very very deep knowledge of music of every genre. And
we've spoken about this many times in our interviews. Like,
so I think that, like I'm not it's like hard
for me to sit in one genre because like even
(33:22):
with electronic music, my go tos are not trap. My
go like hud some Mohawk and Rusty Sure, but like
the Knife, the Prodigy, like early fat Boy, Slim, you know,
fucking who else I'm trying to think, like who shaped
me electronically?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Those are the three that come to mind. Uh and
Yeah and hud some mohk.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You know, like and then like Outcast influenced me, Like
there's so many things that have influenced me, Like Kanye
influenced me.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Like I don't, like I don't even know if we allowed.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
To say that anymore, but you've got a Smith's.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, I mean I'm saying early Kanye.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's fair.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
And like you know, I'm not influenced by just like
one thing you know, like just not.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's also the first time ever. Well you did bring
it up once. But it's funny because I mean, I'm
surprised you didn't mention pumpkins, because you did.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I did, I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, but as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, yeah,
you and Billy now I remember.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I fucking love I love Smash Moments forever. But yeah,
Billy Corgan. I met him once. They were playing a
festival in Australia and I was like a support DJ
on one of the other stages. I think it was
twenty twelve, and I it was the same I think
it was the same year I jumped the fence and
(34:54):
like as a as a fan and met Lana del
Rey when she was wearing like the wedding like the
video games era. So yeah, anyway, but yes, Billy Corgan
I was. I saw he was like outside he was
I think he's having breakfast or something, and I was
DJing like a morning thing at a pub and I
saw him and I freaked out, and the promoter was like, oh,
(35:18):
I'll get you to meet him, and then him and
his manager invited me to have breakfast with him and
it was like I mean being bullied in school and
like your best friend is like the Siamese Dream album.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
And then like meeting.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Him was such like a crazy thing for me and
I'll never forget it. And I called my dad and
I was like hyperventilating. Me thought I was dying, But
I just met Billy Corgan.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Billy is also one of my favorite writers of all time.
That guy gets hurt of phrase in a way then
no one fucking can.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah. Yeah, this saw me with a smile.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Great lyric even just that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's an interesting as he told me. So the song
this time, I was like, I always love that song
so much and he's like, you know what, He's like,
it's interesting they picked that one out. He's like, that's
the last song I ever wrote with Smashing Pumpkins until
they got back together.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know who else? Side note is a great lyricist,
James Murphy.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, I love him. Yeah, I mean there's so many
great lyricists. Yeah, so wait, what's the while I'm looking
this up, it's like a.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Huge thing for me.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Paul's boutique is the reason I started like wanting to DJ.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
So there you go, Like my bedroom is kind of
like an album almost to me, like it's truly just
a collection of everything I've ever loved, And I just
keep the goat like the greatest of all time above
my bed.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's what I would do.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yes, this is like how honestly how I decorated my
animal Crossing Island is like.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
And then like these little guys back here, there's a
couple of artists in them, but they're a little bit
more like Emo asked Niche, like stuff I'd be listening
to on my daily basis. There's machine Girl up there,
static dress, all.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Right, But this is the lyric. It's in the song
this Time where he says, and I'm not going to
sing it because no one wants to hear that, But
when he says this time, I need to know. I
really must be told that it's over. I've lived my
life alone, my every step foretold to never linger, and
yet it haunts me. So whatever we let it go,
our spell is broken. Come on, that is so good?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
So everything, everything is so good everything, And didn't he
write like a bunch of stuff like all the best
whole songs?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Man? I would have loved to stat in the room
for that, because that's been a lot of time with Billy,
and I spent a lot of time with Courtney, and
I love them both as individuals. And the funny thing
is they're both just too smart. They get in their
own ways, so I imagine the egos in that room
must have been like a fucking nuclear explosion. And they're
(38:19):
both great people. I adore them both. But yeah, it's
no wonder they don't like each other.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Those whole songs be
fucking smashing though.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Live Through This, to me is one of the best
albums of the nineties. And I know this is sacrilege,
and I know other people will agree. I like it
way better than never Mind.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I Lived Through This is like what got me the
first stuff I listened to from them.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
So you know, what can I say?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
All right, but we can get out of music all day?
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I know, I feel.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So. And of course now you're a mom of two kids,
so you know what You're like, Yeah, I never get
to have a dull conversation anymore, and I'm like, no.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
No, no, this can never end. We have to talk all day.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Did you have another boy?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I did have another boy? Yeap, Oh my god, I know, I.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Know it's so funny because like I have this girlfriend
and she was like, how do you feel about having boys?
And I was like, it's so funny because you know,
I'm such a someone who is a woman in a
very male dominated world and industry and especially in my genre.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well you know.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, So it was like.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
I was just like, well, if anyone's going to be
the mother of two boys, it's going to be me,
because I'm going to teach them to respect the power
of the female. You know, I think that I think
that I'm the right person two points actually.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
You gotta teach them a listen and they're obsessed with
their mom yeah no, yeah, like then they're great.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
And Max, my eldest, is very obsessed. It's funny, like
he doesn't watch any kids TV. So like he watches
like Back to the Future and like loves Et. He's
only like two and a half and the only thing
he quotes is like Clint Eastwood from The Good, The
Bad and Ugly, Like he can do that whole monologue,
(40:33):
you know where he's like six shots or only five,
like he does that whole It's just like, yeah, he's
he's definitely he's never listened to a kid's nursery, Ryan
like his favorite. He loves Bill Collins and Billy Joel
and Charlie XCX and Tamin Paula.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
That's what he lives like already.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Know.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I was like, what's because I love Billy?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I said, I love this the second time you mentioned
Billy Joel one of me the most underrated songwriters of
all time. And even though he's like great, oh yeah,
he's not cool, but it's like.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Do you watch the documentary?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, that's the thing is like I watched the documentary
and I never realized people didn't think he was cool,
and I didn't realize he had so many people doubt
him and not know where he fit in. So really
the kind of like resonated with me, and I was like, well,
if Billy Joel felt that way, like then I validated
because he's I mean, like, you can't deny these songs like, uh,
(41:43):
you know, I don't know fucking Billy Joel's one of
one of the goats.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So wait, what's your favorite Billy song?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
For real?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
It depends what mood I'm in, Like, if I'm feeling party,
we didn't start the fire, that's always fun. My kid's
favorite is Uptown Girl because he likes the video clip
with what's her name, the model Christy By every time
(42:16):
she's on there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
He's like, so it tastes.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, I know. I'm like, all right, okay, well that's
gonna be a problem. Yeah. So I don't know. I piano, man,
I mean, you can't. It's just like everything's a.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Hit, honesty, everything. This song just kills me. Yeah, yes,
that is a perfect song. But going back to that
for a second, you know, you say, like, well, Billy
felt this way. I felt validated. But that's what I
was trying to say earlier. I mean, if you look
at every great artist and it's funny. I was talking
about this with my friend at Blue Note yesterday, Luna
(42:56):
at the club, and we're talking about Brian Wilson, right,
and Brian Wilson was God only Knows is the greatest
pop song of all time.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
God only Knows was supposed to be my wedding song
and it wasn't. That's my that was always supposed to
be your wedding song.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So whow isn't it?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Because we had Elvis sing us down the aisle?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Okay, but I love Elvis, but God only knows it's
the greatest pop song ever, but it is, I agree.
The reason I bring this up. The reason I bring
this up is because we were talking about this yesterday.
Brian was a fucking genius. And genius is an overused word,
but Brian was a genius in the sense of like
(43:40):
you know, true genius and you go all the way
back in time to like a Vinsu man Goo. Geniuses
have never been appreciated and they've always been driven crazy.
So as an artist, it's almost like the smarter you are,
the less you fit in.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah, it's funny because there's like so many artists that
I think are too smart for crowd, and like when
I listen to their music, I'm like, fuck, like no
one knows, like no one's getting this correctly, but they
will one day. There's like so many artists I feel
that way about.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Billy is definitely one of those.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah, it's crazy because like even and I look at
so many like I look at so many artists that
people didn't get for so long and then it finally clicked.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
But it's just because they.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I mean, they went, they just kept going, which is
also very like I'm always inspired by that Turnstile being
any example of that, Charlie XCX being an example of that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You know, I've known Charlie to be in this industry.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
For way longer than anyone else, and that's why she's
so fucking good. But people finally, like the masses finally
got it and it clicked, and it's very inspiring to see.
And I always feel really happy for people like that
because it is you know, there's lyrics in like her
album Brat where it was kind of like, fuck, like
(45:04):
do I keep doing this or do I just like
go and have a kid?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Like you know, stuff like that really resonated.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Nick fucking Gave who you know, like didn't start headlining
arena until he was over sixty.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
Yeah, I mean I often wonder if it would be
the same if you're a woman like I. Often I
sit and I've had this talk with my husband, who's
a director, so he's like in film and his career
is like kind of he could do this till he
(45:44):
was eighty and still get taken seriously in the same way,
And sometimes I wonder if I could do it until
I was eighty.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I say that if you look at Patty Smith, right,
why I love and Patty Smith has always been like
but now that you know, because of her books as well,
like people love her. But now all of a sudden,
at seventy seven or seventy six, however old she is,
she's now like a couple of years ago she had
(46:13):
the cover of fucking Vogue or a couple of l
this year she did the Colbert Report, she had CBS
Sunday Morning. It's like at seventies. So yes, she's an
example of how as a woman, if you stick around
long enough, people will appreciate you in the same way
because like it should. Like you look at someone like
Leonard Cohen for example, right, Lennon Cohen was always brilliant.
(46:35):
It wasn't until like he was almost eighty. Then all
of a sudden he's doing like the Sunset Spot at
Coachella and everybody's like, oh my god, Leonard Cohen, You're
so genius. And it's like the motherfucker wrote Halleluja in
the sixties. He was always genius. Yeah, pick it up
for years. So yes, I do think as a woman,
you know you can't.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I often wonder like have I outgrown Alison?
Speaker 3 (46:58):
And should I just be doing White Fang and where
do I go from here? And like who am I
as an artist? And I you know that a lot
of that is written in this album too. There's a
song called is This the End at the end of
My album, which is like my ego death song, which
I wrote in five minutes, and it was like the
whole song is me admitting like, okay, girl, you're not
(47:21):
the shiny new thing anymore and you're signing to feel
replaceable and you're admitting that to the world. And that
is a scary thing to write about because it's how
I feel and was feeling. And yeah, like I uh,
I left that song to the end because I'm too
scared to like put it in a limelight because it
(47:42):
is quite an embarrassing song to write. But it's truly
like a lot of how I've been feeling, and it's.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Like do I keep going?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
And it's and I talk about, you know, I think
back to the times where I was fine, and you know,
when I'm overwhelmed, I have to kind of just like
think about that, and that's like is there still fuel
in the tank?
Speaker 2 (48:03):
But you know, like the whole thing is like I I'm.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Now at parties and I'm not like the girl everyone
comes to talk to first, and it's just like a
you know, it was like a really crazy song to.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Write and admit and makes me quite emotional.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So yeah, and then you know, like there's a lot
of songs on the album where you know, I have
had to have a sense of humor about things, like
again Fuck is a very serious subject matter that I
took and thought, well, if I don't have a sense
of humor about this, I'm going to implode. And it
was about my fourth miscarriage. I don't know why I'm laughing,
(48:41):
but like again, like I just had to, uh had
to had to kind of I couldn't be so serious
about this because it was just too much for me
at the time. And then after I wrote again, Fuck
is when I wrote, like, basically in those two weeks,
I want to live in a dream, which was just
(49:02):
about wanting to escape the reality I was living in
at the time.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Is this the end? Floating away? Again? Fuck?
Speaker 6 (49:14):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Get Started was another one again Fuck? What else was
that I wrote there?
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Everything comes in waves and let me just go through
see if I've missed anything. But there was like a
two week period where there was like a bunch of
shit that was written, where is my track list? Let
me just see because I don't want to uh yeah
my mom.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yes. So it was like get started, I.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Want to live in a dream. Everything comes in waves again?
Fuck floating away?
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Is this the end? That was all written in like
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
And then ghost World was a last thing that I wrote,
and it was just the intro and I thought, like,
how sonically do I hear this album being introduced into
the world.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And I was just like.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Sing to Tangerine Dream and John Carpenter and like another
thing that was influenced by the those sense was like
the that Goblin track from the seventies Suspiria movie, like
from the old Suspia movie. And I was like, well,
I can't put my voice on this because it just
feels too like present with who I am. So I
got my kid to actually do the vocals for the
(50:22):
first song because I'm like, what's the most like innocent,
non biased voice I can think of? And it's a child,
So I put him on there. Nepo Baby.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
I wanted to ask you, like I said, coming into this,
I only know a handful of your work. Funny enough,
I did know that you got married in Vegas I
did see that you're looking that it's impossible to get
married anywhere. It's too expensive, So I didn't know that.
But your collaborators on this album are all all standouts
(51:11):
to me. DJ Dave, I'm gonna butcher her name, but Nina,
how do you need? And obviously White playing in member
like Insane Insane.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Cori and Eric the architects from Flatquish Zombies.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Oh yeah, We've got him out because he's like one
of my closest friends.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
And I just think, yeah, I am on this album myself.
So all of those people I hit up and I'm like,
I love you, let's work on this together. And again,
like working with DJ Dave and Nina were really it
was really cathotic for me because I love working with
female produces and they're both like that, I think the geniuses.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
So I think.
Speaker 4 (51:58):
I'm obsessed with them, like I DJ Dave and her
like right now, at least for me being a listener
rather than being a producer, because girl, I don't I
can't play unable to like you you can. But I
was vocalists.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, but it's crazy because DJ Dave said to me.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Like, how did you know we were both going to
pop off like and I'm like, I don't know, I've
just been I'm I'm a good The reason I'm a
good DJ is like because I'm a good A and
R like I know what like my hate, Like I
can see what's going to work.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
And Uh, working with both of.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Them was like an absolute dream, like so easy creatively,
like ten out of ten, we'll do again.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
I wanted to tap in a little bit to DJ Dave,
especially since kind of her main thing from my knowledge
is that she's been like playing live, coding live. So
how was writing that specific song with her, especially with
the craft that she's kind of developed.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
So I had already written like the vocals and the
call words and the synths and stuff, and then I
sent her the stems to put into like her coding
uh for her to code or like to produce with
her coding software. And then she like added to it
and then put her vocals in the second verse, and
(53:17):
then we put our vocals together in the chorus, and.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Then we collaborated with the part she sent me.
Speaker 3 (53:24):
And put them all together and they fit like a
puzzle and it was beautiful and perfect and easy.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Oh voices, Yeah, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
It's it's crazy track and she's just a dream, she's a.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Dull a lover.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
And yeah, we we're definitely going to be writing more
together because it was like so easy and so so creative,
like it was it felt so good working with her,
and like, the thing I love about electronic music is
it's so one on one with technology, and technology is
ever changing and ever evolving, so it's such a it
(54:09):
like a like it's always electronic music is always going
to be new because there's always new things getting added
with technology, and this the life and the coding that
she does and all of that is like so new
to me. So it's like I get excited when I
see something that I had that I've never seen before.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
And I imagine that's what.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
That's like my closest feeling to being childlike again, because
for me, like a child is always discovering things for
the first time. So that's why I like, I love
this genre, That's why I love working with technology, and
I love meeting people that are just so inspiring and
new and like fresh. And yet she just felt like
(54:51):
just we did we did a like a live stream
together and just watching her on Strudle, which is the program.
I was just like, this is incredible and it was
so inspiring, and it was such like a different way
of producing where I'm so much more like, uh, like intentional,
(55:13):
you know. It's like for her, it's more just coding
and seeing what comes out and like vibing off it.
And it was just really cool. I was blown away. Yeah,
she's she's incredible.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
Is that's so awesome? That was what you said? Made
a really good point to be child again, to be inspired,
because when I had first seen her, I was like,
no way, how do you fit all that in your brain? Yes,
she's amazing, Like she's a genius, You're so smart.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, she's amazing, Like no I. And so it was
funny because I approached both her and.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Nina before they started kind of blowing up, uh, because
I'm hyper aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
And I was just so inspired and like drawn to
these these women.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
And I think also since kind of like going through
birth and all that, my love for for women has
ten has like grown tenfold, and I want to be
around that energy a lot more. And yeah, it was
really cool to work with them, and I definitely want
(56:29):
We're all probably going to be working again together, so
for sure.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Well I imagine the other thing is collaborating, you know.
It always like keeps things new. You get to see
how someone else works. It like you know, teaches you
new things as well.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (56:47):
And like again like that's why like seeing things for
the first time, Like I'm like, oh, this is inspiring
to me and it sparks something in my brain.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
And it was funny. Like someone said to me the.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
Other day, like being a musician is the longest career
you can have when you think about it, because you
can always keep doing that even if you're like ninety
in like calm move.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
I thought, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
So yeah, I hopefully I can do it until then,
but I do get scared.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
That's the summary of this interview.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Well, since we've weeks the summary of this interview and
we have taken an hour of your time, we're gonna
let you go unless you want to add that.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
You know, no, I think that this is a delightful
chat as always and always. Donovan is your name Donavich
for it is?
Speaker 4 (57:42):
That is my legal name.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yes, I'd love it.
Speaker 4 (57:46):
Thank you. Shout out my parents.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
They did a good job, you know. Honestly, like naming
a kid is so hectic.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah, so for me, my parents didn't know if I
was going to be a boy or a girl. Like
they just waited all the way till the end. So
Donathan was the set name either way.
Speaker 3 (58:03):
Oh okay, we were gonna call and second maybe something,
and then he came out and didn't look like it, so.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
It like, oh fuck, we had somethinking again.
Speaker 4 (58:11):
And that happened with my young I have a younger brother,
we're fifteen months apart. His name is Beckett, but that
was the they did the same thing. So he's obviously
a boy, but girl our boy, it was.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Going to be the same. I love that.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah, we It's funny because like with both of our kids,
like we had it on the name and then like
they both came out like they don't look like that,
and so we had to like last minute change it
to something that wasn't even on the list, and they
both like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
So I don't know. Hopefully I looked, Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (58:44):
Thank you so much for having me. Uh, this is
one of the coolest things I've ever gotten to do.
I've always wanted to talk to a woman in electronic,
especially since it's something I've recently entered into. I kind
of grew up more of an emo kid, but I
got my foot in by funny enough, bartending a eightym
(59:04):
club here back home. I'm based out of Phoenix, by
the way, so we'll on this like, okay, yeah, yeah,
that's like my home company that like, I work with
pretty frequently. But I'm just finally so honored to get
to talk to someone who plays such a big role
in this field. And thank you from a girl to
another for us you have contributed and continue to contribute
(59:28):
forever and always.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
When I'm eighty, I want to be smoking SIGs like
and like I want wed colored hair.
Speaker 4 (59:33):
Don't worry, I'll be outsize stage with the lighter and yes.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
Okay, that's my goal is I just want to be
just like.
Speaker 4 (59:38):
I'll be there. I'll see I'll see you could sell
twenty twenty sixty five, three twenty five, all right, I'll
see you then, girl,
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