January 15, 2025 • 31 mins
On this week's In Service Of Bishop Briggs joins Steve Baltin and Sage Bava to talk about working with Travis Barker on her wonderful new album, 'Tell My Therapist I'm Fine,' her upcoming tour, finding hope in music and much more.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, this is Steve Balton. Welcome to in service of
this week. We are joined by Bishop Briggs. Bishop is
an old friend, so you can hear that in the
conversation as we jump right in talking to her about
Halloween and her kids Halloween costume. This interview was done
in October, so we still talk about Halloween, which never
(00:25):
goes out of style, and the election, which unfortunately goes
out of style very quickly. But we wanted to save
the interview for the beginning of the year when Bishop
is about to go on tour in support of her
wonderful new album.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's so much fun to have her on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
She's been a friend forever and both Sage and I
adore her, so I hope you enjoy this one as
much as we did. I saw your instagram you took
(01:06):
the get to a Spirit yesterday for the first time.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, what's a Halloween costume?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, we're in the midst of deciding. Thank you so
much for starting starting it off very strong. I think
him being the chef from Ratatui with like a little
rat inside could be very cute. But there's also astronauts,
so it's really it's tough times over here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We're really not sure and what are you going to be?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I'll be whatever is coinciding with the So I might
be a chef. I might be an astronaut. Oh sorry,
I might be an alien that he meets.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Wait, how old is he now? Two? So is this
the first real Halloween?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He had one last year and he was Pikachu and
then we were all the sore and someone else Cordle.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So for you, how much more fun is Halloween with him?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, it's also really great because you know, I think
you can harmlessly influence your children, and obviously there's negative
ways of doing that, but I feel these very positive ways,
Like he loves cats and he loves Halloween, which is
very much like me. So it's been really fun to
see him get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you know, it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I hadn't thought about this still now, but Stage and
I are doing this new podcast that focus is a
great deal on hope, And it's interesting because it must
be so nice to have this to focus on with
him six days before the world might end in America,
so you know, before the election, must be so nice
(02:53):
to have like all this optimism.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yes, before the characalismic, whatever the hell happens happens.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I know, I really wonder what's going to happen. Yeah,
I feel like that's the journey of parenthood, is being
able to escape the every day and find that light
and joy and hope. As you were saying, and I
think as they get older, the world's intertwined and you
sort of explain what's happening in the world and what's happening,
you know, in your life.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, that's a good segue into the album because one
of things we were talking about was it was more upbeat.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I'm gonna let's stage started off because she's mentioned the album.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Well, I have so many questions, and you just inspired
a new one, which I'm so intrigued to know how
this new album was different given your child and how
that process. You know, I can't imagine what that process
was like. Could you talk a little bit about that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I you know, in losing my sister, I wrote a
lot of really sad songs, and I think I was
just so desperate to to understand what had happened and
to find my way through it. And the more that
I learned about grief, the more I'm learning that it
really is something that lives alongside of you, and you
(04:15):
find different coping mechanisms as you go.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And one of the things that I noticed was when
I focused on music that my sister showed me growing up.
You know, she was very She was someone that always
attended Warp Tour, My Chemical Romance, Summer Sonic and Tokyo
and that generation of bands and music. There was so
(04:42):
much emphasis on you know, fun lyrics and these these
hooky choruses, and but there was also a lot of
real guitars in there. And and I noticed when I
was writing in that way, I felt so much closer
to her because it was really the music she introduced
to me. So I really thought I'd find her in
(05:05):
the sadness. But I'm so grateful that I really found
her in the joy, which makes sense of course in hindsight.
She was just the most joy ever. But it really
wasn't my instinct until writing this album.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, that's really interesting and really beautiful. And we've had
some great conversations with people about grief, and it's it's
something that is so not linear, and it goes in
every direction, and so it's constantly surprising you. So were
there songs that you listen to from other people before
coming on the album that really brought her to you
(05:41):
in a way that maybe they're like, oh, I haven't
heard this forever, I haven't thought of this forever, or
it brings back memories that like, I mean, I love Gerard,
he's been a friend forever. I love my Kim. You
know you have Travis on the album Who's a Friend.
I'm sure there were things you heard that were just
like my sister.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yes, I mean everything from No Doubt to my Chemical
Romance to even panic at the Disco lying as the
most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off,
you know, just all of that time from Good Charlotte
and then finding myself in those two but those were
(06:25):
the main ones that were really leading the pack for sure,
and then of course everything I grew up with, you know,
Janice Joplin. You know I'm such a big fan of
and and finding the soul in all of that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Well, you know, one of the things we talk a
lot about, and we've talked about this with you before,
is the way that writing is subconscious and things come
out that you don't know about.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yes, and when you're writing about your sister. And it's
funny because when Sage asked.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
You about you know, being a mom and having and
writing the out and it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was talking with James Bay. This is a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
We just talked with him recently, but a couple of
years ago, and it was funny he realized that he
was writing about his kid while his wife is pregnant.
He didn't even know he was, so I imagine there's
ways that the kid comes into songs that you don't
even know. But were there things in this album, you know,
since it was spurred on by your sister and joyous
(07:24):
that when you go back and look at it and
now really surprise you.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, there's this song on there that's going to be
the next single called My Serotonin. And it was my
first time being away from the baby. And I mean,
moms are so incredible, the fact that they, you know,
they stay so mentally strong. But I had a trip
where it was just going to be twenty four hours
(07:50):
without the baby. But it was my first time doing
that and I was in New York. And if you
listen to the lyrics, you'll it sounds like a love
song to someone I'm deeply in love with And I
started writing that verse while walking in New York in
a very woe is Me way of just noticing that
(08:13):
I had a ton of atomically atomically completely changed. Every
fiber of my being had changed because I had a baby,
because I had now allowed myself to love again in
the way that I loved my sister, that familial love,
(08:34):
and I feel like there's such a depth to that,
there's something within our nature. So a song like that
definitely surprised me.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Being able to.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Think about the relationship with the baby as like the
first time I'm allowing myself to fall in love again,
and how scary and and heartbreakingly beautiful that that love
can be. Yeah, that was a surprise.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I love to go back to the seeds of where
these big projects come from, and of course you can
go back and back and back, but it sounds like
isolated love. What she made with Travis Barker was one
of the initial seeds that all of this grew from.
Can you talk about making that with him and kind
of the inspiration that that gave.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You are one hundred percent correct. That was the first
song that was written from the album, and I remember
leaving that session just feeling completely free and being like, wow,
well that was a one off, like that was I'll
never be able to do that on my own or
(09:45):
achieve whatever that was where it was just this grit
that I had never really tapped into before. And then,
you know, I'm so fortunate that I technically got to
play that song for my sister and she was soess
with it, And so I found myself throughout the album
process really chasing that feeling of just that memory of her,
(10:08):
even you know, in in her illness, listening to it
and responding to it. And I found myself chasing that
feeling throughout the album process, and so I hope that
there are you know, traces of that within the rest
of the songs. But yeah, I really was the starting point.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yea. So how many years ago does that song go back?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that was right before Lockdown, right before COVID, So
this has been really years in the making.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, And when you say chasing that feeling, were there
other moments on this record than when you feel or
It's funny because I've often found when you try and
chase a feeling, it's fucking hard. It's only when a
feeling is unpredictable and you're not expecting it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you're like, holy shit, that's the best moment of
my life.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yes, under present. And also, I mean I think that
that chasing feeling was totally subconscious. I think I probably
was just leaving sessions either knowing if it was there
or it wasn't, and having that disheartening juxtaposition of being
so grateful that I got to write, but knowing that
(11:22):
there was something that maybe wasn't as raw as I'd
want it to be. There is a song on there
called I'm Not a Machine and the producer behind that
is this amazing producer named Leroy Clampett, and then the
executive producer is Andrew Wells, and Leroy added this essentially
(11:45):
like machine sound that sounds like a machine exploding in
the chorus. And having that that production that shift. I
mean that that was something like that I felt in
the Travis session as well, where it was something I
(12:08):
hadn't done before that was really enhanced by the people
I was in the room with. Uh So that was
a yeah, special one.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know, it's interesting too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
We, like I said, we have the podcast and it's
built around a couple of questions and I'm going to
flip at this time because I find that grief really
affects your direction life. Once you've lost someone, they're always
there with you and it does change. So we've asked
people about getting back, but before that, I'm going to
(12:45):
ask you what is your purpose as an artist and
as a person.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The reason I ask you now is because, like I said,
you know, we had an amazing conversation with Samripinder, who's
the jazz artists, about grief and it's grief like it shapes.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Every part of you afterwards. It does.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I mean, it's a club that you don't want to
be a part of, and you you meet people throughout
your life that are a part of that club that
maybe you weren't expecting. Hmm, I think, uh, do you
mind repeating the question?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Actually, yeah, what's your purpose?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Oh what's my purpose?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Oh? God, I don't say what's your purpose? But yeah,
I don't think you have one.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
My purpose? I mean I think my.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, I mean refres it to has it changed aw
since you lost your sister, because for a lot of people,
you feel like you're kind of living for multiple people.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, you know, I think that was a lot of
the bitterness that I try to continue to work through
that I struggle with, of just you know, I really
walked with so much gratitude before my sister passed away,
and I've thankfully found that gratitude again, and I think
(14:08):
that's really a big important of walking through life. But
it was really just something that felt really tragic and unexpected.
I'm sure my brain chemistry changed in a lot of ways.
I do know that my goal before and my goal after,
(14:31):
and I think I've shared this with you guys before,
of just this idea of whatever I share, whatever I
put out into the world and makes someone feel less
alone just by hearing it, just by listening to it,
And that goal has really remained the same. And I
think maybe the only thing that has changed is now
having gone so deep into the depths of darkness and
(14:55):
not seeing a future for myself, it opened something else
for me to talk about. That Yeah, that I I
I of course wish that this hadn't happened. So it's yeah,
it's interesting. I think the goal the goal has remained
remained the same.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, well it's interesting too. And then let sage go again.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
One second, I was going to say, you find the
silver lining because I lost both my parents in six years,
and you find that what happens is you now have
this experience to draw on that in terms of feeling
less alone. You can help other people through your because,
like you say, you're part of this club that no
(15:38):
one wants to be a part of. But at least
now you know, having gone through it, you can. You know,
you're able to draw in your experience to help people.
And it'd be interesting for you to look at, or
maybe for someone else to look at how that's influenced
your music in the last few years, if you are
able to or if there's that's what I'm looking for
(16:02):
a little bit more empathy in there.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because honest the thing it comes as you get older anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I also there's a song on the album called hurt
Me now uh, and I think something that happens as
well as you You feel this resilience when you've experienced
so much loss in such a bizarre way, you feel
this energy of wow, I've been so hurt. What can
you do now? You know? And it kind of makes
(16:28):
you fearless in a very unique way. Now that I
have a baby, Oh my gosh, I'm like don't hurt me.
Oh God, like don't do anything as if we have
control over anything. But yeah, but with that song, it
really is sort of saying like, Okay, I am carrying
this experience, and my way of being positive about it
is like trying to find any little semblance of power,
(16:53):
which can be really hard.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I love how you talk about channeling, and I think
that by virtue of truthfully creating as you do, it
kind of creates your purpose and it creates this immense
flow of giving back and receiving. And you know, I
think that the questions of what is your purpose is
(17:18):
so interlinked with what do you give back and what
is important to you? And I think channeling happens because
you are also giving, which creates the receiving. And I
know that that's a big part of your creating. Can
you talk about channeling for this album and how that
kind of has evolved for you.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
By the way, you just had the best voice. You
have such a calming laura and voice. It is just
it's gonna heal the world, Just gonna say it's getting
heal the Yeah, there was this there's this song on
the album called good for Me, and the origin of
that song began in the hospital room with my sister
(18:04):
when the whole world was shutting down and all of
a sudden there were no shows there, there was no
writing there, there was no ability to even leave wherever
you were. And it really makes you look at the
world differently when you realize that all of it can
go away, but what is staying? You know, it's like
(18:25):
these relationships that mean something to you. It's like the
little zoom dates we all did with each other, you know,
those connections are what means so much that creating that
community And so with that song good for me, I
mean that really became That was a song that I
(18:48):
never knew would come to Fruition at all and was
written years after the fact. And so being able to
have a song like that where the message still come through,
I think there is that sort of channeling that you
don't really have control over. But I hope that, you know,
(19:08):
with this idea of people feeling less alone, I hope
that their takeaway is really looking at their life and
being like, what is good for me? What is serving me?
What relationships are propelling me, are empowering me? And which
ones are no longer serving me?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, which is the perfect transition to the title. Oh yes,
and I need to know when that that inspiration struck
and how that came to you. It's so funny and
deep and brilliant.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Oh my gosh, well thank you. So that is a
lyric from this song I wrote with this amazing fellow
mom named Skuyler, and I was I was playing that
voice memo for her that I wrote in New York,
just this feeling of change and what comes with motherhood
(20:00):
and this sort of unspokenness of it all. And yeah,
the entire lyric is tell my therapist I'm fine. I'm
I'm done lying every time because I'm not fucking fine,
And yeah, I wanted there to be some humor to it.
And part of where the origin of that song came
(20:24):
from was I found myself not getting a lot out
of the therapy sessions I was going to because I
would really not share everything that I was feeling or
everything that I was going through, and that does nothing
for anyone. But yeah, that tell my Therapist I'm fine.
That really became the focal point of all of it.
(20:45):
And what mask are you wearing? And the entire album
really is about the human experience and just these trapters
of life, and therapy is a big one where you're
really exposed.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, so are you fine, pardnant? Are you fine?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I am fine? Or actually am I? I? Actually am?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I I I. I think so much changed when I
when I went along the journey of motherhood. You know,
you never really know if you never really know if
it's in the cards for you. But even just becoming pregnant,
(21:39):
it I even before I got pregnant, I had to
really sort out my mental health in a different way.
And part of that was, yeah, seeing a future for
myself which I hadn't I hadn't seen for a little
while there.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well it's really funny because you know, I asked the
question is joke. But it's interesting because I mentioned James
Bay earlier and he has a song on the record
called Hope, and we're talking with him about this sort
of you know, seeking hope in the writing and I'm
obsessed with Shane O'Connor got to interview her several times
(22:14):
and she said one of the most interesting things to
me ever, which is as a writer, you you have
this power to control your destiny, words manifest And it's
interesting because I'm finding this more and more. How it's
funny how a title that turns out to be kind
of flippant is in a way of self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yes, I mean, there's this song on the album called
Here Comes the Flood, and.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I love that song. By the way, Oh really, that's
probably my favorite on the record.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh good, okay, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
That's well. That one two punch period of the that
and single.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Oh thank You, I mean that's that song in particular,
was really trying to manifest, really trying to manifest the
hope and allow everything that happened to just wash over
me and I and I continue you on. Yeah, And
that was a big part of working with John Feldman,
(23:16):
who is just the most positive person ever.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And yeah, I love Feldy. He's been a friend for years.
But literally his Instagram every morning is him walking through
the mountains. I love my life.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah, I love my life. I was just about to
say that. I was like, do I share that?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I love How good is that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
He's he's just okay, wait, we got to wrap up
in a few minutes on let's stage finish it.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
But this is a great story. You'll appreciate this my
first FELDI meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It was at a Plank went a two release party
at Brian Dragon in LA which is one of the
juiciest fucking places in the world.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I don't know if you've ever been there. I have.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's such a shit check. But I was sitting with
all time Low interviewing them. Feladi is in a suit.
We're lined up in five seats. This fucking guy I've
never met slides across some lines across all five of us,
and he just looks up at me and like, we're
either gonna be great friends or there's the biggest asshole
in the world.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
We've become great friends stage.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
He've been to his house and he talked with her
about He's just he's the nicest guy.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
He's the best, all right. But yeah, so wait, he
produced the whole record. No, it was just that song.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
We were there together, and yeah it was the best.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, it's funny because there's that spirit of optimism that
both he and Travis have, and Travis especially I've known
for years and you know, having gone through his experiences,
he has such a sense of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So how much did that rub off on you?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Because both of them have been sober and really again
there's a dude who screams out of my life every day.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I mean I hope that. I hope that that
is something that I was subconsciously or consciously really needing
and that maybe that's why I was finding myself in
those sorts of rooms. And as someone that's been an
alan on for so long, I mean, having people like
that around me, it just brings me a lot of
(25:23):
joy and in what you know, people that are in
the program do, and yeah, so I really appreciate the positivity.
I try my best to exude that, so the fact
that they do it as well just means so much.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I love how you're such a mental health advocate and
the truthful human both in your music and outside of it.
It's like so vital for you know, the young ins
and anyone to really look at that and know for
them how that is and have a representation. But anyways,
for me, musicians, especially to protect your boundaries, to have
(26:04):
your sanctity, there's a lot of rituals that kind of
just happen, especially when you're making music. You're making an album,
and I think I'm very interested and I know that
there's many people out there that are interested. If there's
rituals that you have adopted in the last couple of
years that have been super helpful, especially in the creative process,
(26:25):
just in your own process, just as a mom, and
as all the things that you are.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, I think really trusting your gut. I think part
of the reason why I do feel fine and maybe,
you know, hopefully a little bit better than fine right
now is the people I've been working with, you know,
working with feminists, working with people that want you to
(26:52):
be your most empowered self. It's kind of a ritual
in listening to your gut and using it as a
mental health exercise of like, you don't have to stay
in any room if you don't want to, and if
something is off, it doesn't matter if it actually is.
If it's off to you, you leave that room. And
(27:13):
so even when we're talking about collaborators on this album,
you know, and this has been a year's worth of
worth of work, it's all people that I would like
love for you guys to meet, you know, or and
you guys have already met half of them. I'm just saying,
it's so nice to have that feeling. And so I.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Think that ritual of meeting and connecting with the people
that I'm going to be spending hours a day with,
especially if I'm going to be away from the baby, means,
you know, is the most important ritual I can put
myself in of leaving rooms if I'm not comfortable and
trusting that gut instinct, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
We've got to rub up at a second.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's funny because before this started, we were talking with
Jenny about Patti Smith.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Because me being.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Sometimes too dumb for my own good, I randomly texted
Patti Smith yesterday and said, would you do the podcast? Why?
I mean, I really know I've interviewed her, but yeah, anyway,
there's a fearlessness that stage will tell you sometimes goes
too far. But it's interesting the reason I bringing her
up she is we're also talking about Christmas Shofferson. Those
(28:26):
are two of my heroes, but Patty in particular is
to me probably the most fascinating person alive. And the
way that she just walked away from playing to seventy
thousand people in her own and said, Okay, I'm going
to be a mom for the next seventeen years. Like,
are there people that you've looked at or that are
(28:46):
inspirations for the way that you now balance the two.
Because it's interesting because I've also talked with fathers about
this and it's funny. The very first time I'm at Slash,
I didn't know him for shit. It was at a
San Diego street scene. I expected him to be this
guy with a fucking needle sticking out of his dick.
At he was the nicest person I've ever met and
(29:08):
still is. And he said to me, I just had
a baby. This is the first one I've ever had.
This is the first time I went'm away. I'm really
honored to be here. I can't wait to fucking get home.
So it definitely changes your mentality and how.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You approach work. So how are the people that you've
talked to or really to or a meyer.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I mean, balance is definitely a myth. I think it's
a societal thing that's put on us to make us
feel bad every single day. But other than that, I
think it really depends on what you're passionate about. So, like,
I love performing, and so my husband comes on the road,
and you know he's a musician as well. He comes
(29:50):
on the road, and when I'm playing a show at night,
he'll be with the baby on the bus. And so
because those are my goals. Someone like Pink is a
big example to me because she tours with her kids,
her husband's there, she really like brings the family along.
But I truly find every mom inspirational in whatever whatever
(30:15):
capacity they're showing up for their child, you know. And
my hope is just that it's you know, that they
are passionate about what they're doing and still feeling fulfilled
and also getting to be the most present mom that
they can be, you know, having I think. But the
idea of balance, that's a myth, that's that's just not
(30:37):
I don't think that exists. But that's what's so fun
is that you can have you can have days that
are completely out of balance, which means that you get
to spend so much time doing music or so much
time with the baby, you know, or both. I try
to put the worlds together too.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh well, I then we got to wrap up. So yeah,
anything that you want to have and ask you about.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
No, I mean, you guys are the best. Thank you
so much for taking the time. It's been so great.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Of course I emailed you a couple of times. I
always wanted to talk to you every projects.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Thank you, thank you. I appreciate you so much.
Hi, this is Steve Balton. Welcome to in service of
this week. We are joined by Bishop Briggs. Bishop is
an old friend, so you can hear that in the
conversation as we jump right in talking to her about
Halloween and her kids Halloween costume. This interview was done
in October, so we still talk about Halloween, which never
(00:25):
goes out of style, and the election, which unfortunately goes
out of style very quickly. But we wanted to save
the interview for the beginning of the year when Bishop
is about to go on tour in support of her
wonderful new album.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's so much fun to have her on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
She's been a friend forever and both Sage and I
adore her, so I hope you enjoy this one as
much as we did. I saw your instagram you took
(01:06):
the get to a Spirit yesterday for the first time.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, what's a Halloween costume?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, we're in the midst of deciding. Thank you so
much for starting starting it off very strong. I think
him being the chef from Ratatui with like a little
rat inside could be very cute. But there's also astronauts,
so it's really it's tough times over here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We're really not sure and what are you going to be?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I'll be whatever is coinciding with the So I might
be a chef. I might be an astronaut. Oh sorry,
I might be an alien that he meets.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Wait, how old is he now? Two? So is this
the first real Halloween?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He had one last year and he was Pikachu and
then we were all the sore and someone else Cordle.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So for you, how much more fun is Halloween with him?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, it's also really great because you know, I think
you can harmlessly influence your children, and obviously there's negative
ways of doing that, but I feel these very positive ways,
Like he loves cats and he loves Halloween, which is
very much like me. So it's been really fun to
see him get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you know, it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I hadn't thought about this still now, but Stage and
I are doing this new podcast that focus is a
great deal on hope, And it's interesting because it must
be so nice to have this to focus on with
him six days before the world might end in America,
so you know, before the election, must be so nice
(02:53):
to have like all this optimism.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yes, before the characalismic, whatever the hell happens happens.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I know, I really wonder what's going to happen. Yeah,
I feel like that's the journey of parenthood, is being
able to escape the every day and find that light
and joy and hope. As you were saying, and I
think as they get older, the world's intertwined and you
sort of explain what's happening in the world and what's happening,
you know, in your life.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, that's a good segue into the album because one
of things we were talking about was it was more upbeat.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I'm gonna let's stage started off because she's mentioned the album.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Well, I have so many questions, and you just inspired
a new one, which I'm so intrigued to know how
this new album was different given your child and how
that process. You know, I can't imagine what that process
was like. Could you talk a little bit about that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I you know, in losing my sister, I wrote a
lot of really sad songs, and I think I was
just so desperate to to understand what had happened and
to find my way through it. And the more that
I learned about grief, the more I'm learning that it
really is something that lives alongside of you, and you
(04:15):
find different coping mechanisms as you go.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And one of the things that I noticed was when
I focused on music that my sister showed me growing up.
You know, she was very She was someone that always
attended Warp Tour, My Chemical Romance, Summer Sonic and Tokyo
and that generation of bands and music. There was so
(04:42):
much emphasis on you know, fun lyrics and these these
hooky choruses, and but there was also a lot of
real guitars in there. And and I noticed when I
was writing in that way, I felt so much closer
to her because it was really the music she introduced
to me. So I really thought I'd find her in
(05:05):
the sadness. But I'm so grateful that I really found
her in the joy, which makes sense of course in hindsight.
She was just the most joy ever. But it really
wasn't my instinct until writing this album.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, that's really interesting and really beautiful. And we've had
some great conversations with people about grief, and it's it's
something that is so not linear, and it goes in
every direction, and so it's constantly surprising you. So were
there songs that you listen to from other people before
coming on the album that really brought her to you
(05:41):
in a way that maybe they're like, oh, I haven't
heard this forever, I haven't thought of this forever, or
it brings back memories that like, I mean, I love Gerard,
he's been a friend forever. I love my Kim. You
know you have Travis on the album Who's a Friend.
I'm sure there were things you heard that were just
like my sister.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yes, I mean everything from No Doubt to my Chemical
Romance to even panic at the Disco lying as the
most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off,
you know, just all of that time from Good Charlotte
and then finding myself in those two but those were
(06:25):
the main ones that were really leading the pack for sure,
and then of course everything I grew up with, you know,
Janice Joplin. You know I'm such a big fan of
and and finding the soul in all of that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Well, you know, one of the things we talk a
lot about, and we've talked about this with you before,
is the way that writing is subconscious and things come
out that you don't know about.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yes, and when you're writing about your sister. And it's
funny because when Sage asked.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
You about you know, being a mom and having and
writing the out and it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was talking with James Bay. This is a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
We just talked with him recently, but a couple of
years ago, and it was funny he realized that he
was writing about his kid while his wife is pregnant.
He didn't even know he was, so I imagine there's
ways that the kid comes into songs that you don't
even know. But were there things in this album, you know,
since it was spurred on by your sister and joyous
(07:24):
that when you go back and look at it and
now really surprise you.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, there's this song on there that's going to be
the next single called My Serotonin. And it was my
first time being away from the baby. And I mean,
moms are so incredible, the fact that they, you know,
they stay so mentally strong. But I had a trip
where it was just going to be twenty four hours
(07:50):
without the baby. But it was my first time doing
that and I was in New York. And if you
listen to the lyrics, you'll it sounds like a love
song to someone I'm deeply in love with And I
started writing that verse while walking in New York in
a very woe is Me way of just noticing that
(08:13):
I had a ton of atomically atomically completely changed. Every
fiber of my being had changed because I had a baby,
because I had now allowed myself to love again in
the way that I loved my sister, that familial love,
(08:34):
and I feel like there's such a depth to that,
there's something within our nature. So a song like that
definitely surprised me.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Being able to.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Think about the relationship with the baby as like the
first time I'm allowing myself to fall in love again,
and how scary and and heartbreakingly beautiful that that love
can be. Yeah, that was a surprise.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I love to go back to the seeds of where
these big projects come from, and of course you can
go back and back and back, but it sounds like
isolated love. What she made with Travis Barker was one
of the initial seeds that all of this grew from.
Can you talk about making that with him and kind
of the inspiration that that gave.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You are one hundred percent correct. That was the first
song that was written from the album, and I remember
leaving that session just feeling completely free and being like, wow,
well that was a one off, like that was I'll
never be able to do that on my own or
(09:45):
achieve whatever that was where it was just this grit
that I had never really tapped into before. And then,
you know, I'm so fortunate that I technically got to
play that song for my sister and she was soess
with it, And so I found myself throughout the album
process really chasing that feeling of just that memory of her,
(10:08):
even you know, in in her illness, listening to it
and responding to it. And I found myself chasing that
feeling throughout the album process, and so I hope that
there are you know, traces of that within the rest
of the songs. But yeah, I really was the starting point.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yea. So how many years ago does that song go back?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that was right before Lockdown, right before COVID, So
this has been really years in the making.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, And when you say chasing that feeling, were there
other moments on this record than when you feel or
It's funny because I've often found when you try and
chase a feeling, it's fucking hard. It's only when a
feeling is unpredictable and you're not expecting it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you're like, holy shit, that's the best moment of
my life.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yes, under present. And also, I mean I think that
that chasing feeling was totally subconscious. I think I probably
was just leaving sessions either knowing if it was there
or it wasn't, and having that disheartening juxtaposition of being
so grateful that I got to write, but knowing that
(11:22):
there was something that maybe wasn't as raw as I'd
want it to be. There is a song on there
called I'm Not a Machine and the producer behind that
is this amazing producer named Leroy Clampett, and then the
executive producer is Andrew Wells, and Leroy added this essentially
(11:45):
like machine sound that sounds like a machine exploding in
the chorus. And having that that production that shift. I
mean that that was something like that I felt in
the Travis session as well, where it was something I
(12:08):
hadn't done before that was really enhanced by the people
I was in the room with. Uh So that was
a yeah, special one.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know, it's interesting too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
We, like I said, we have the podcast and it's
built around a couple of questions and I'm going to
flip at this time because I find that grief really
affects your direction life. Once you've lost someone, they're always
there with you and it does change. So we've asked
people about getting back, but before that, I'm going to
(12:45):
ask you what is your purpose as an artist and
as a person.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The reason I ask you now is because, like I said,
you know, we had an amazing conversation with Samripinder, who's
the jazz artists, about grief and it's grief like it shapes.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Every part of you afterwards. It does.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I mean, it's a club that you don't want to
be a part of, and you you meet people throughout
your life that are a part of that club that
maybe you weren't expecting. Hmm, I think, uh, do you
mind repeating the question?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Actually, yeah, what's your purpose?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Oh what's my purpose?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Oh? God, I don't say what's your purpose? But yeah,
I don't think you have one.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
My purpose? I mean I think my.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, I mean refres it to has it changed aw
since you lost your sister, because for a lot of people,
you feel like you're kind of living for multiple people.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, you know, I think that was a lot of
the bitterness that I try to continue to work through
that I struggle with, of just you know, I really
walked with so much gratitude before my sister passed away,
and I've thankfully found that gratitude again, and I think
(14:08):
that's really a big important of walking through life. But
it was really just something that felt really tragic and unexpected.
I'm sure my brain chemistry changed in a lot of ways.
I do know that my goal before and my goal after,
(14:31):
and I think I've shared this with you guys before,
of just this idea of whatever I share, whatever I
put out into the world and makes someone feel less
alone just by hearing it, just by listening to it,
And that goal has really remained the same. And I
think maybe the only thing that has changed is now
having gone so deep into the depths of darkness and
(14:55):
not seeing a future for myself, it opened something else
for me to talk about. That Yeah, that I I
I of course wish that this hadn't happened. So it's yeah,
it's interesting. I think the goal the goal has remained
remained the same.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, well it's interesting too. And then let sage go again.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
One second, I was going to say, you find the
silver lining because I lost both my parents in six years,
and you find that what happens is you now have
this experience to draw on that in terms of feeling
less alone. You can help other people through your because,
like you say, you're part of this club that no
(15:38):
one wants to be a part of. But at least
now you know, having gone through it, you can. You know,
you're able to draw in your experience to help people.
And it'd be interesting for you to look at, or
maybe for someone else to look at how that's influenced
your music in the last few years, if you are
able to or if there's that's what I'm looking for
(16:02):
a little bit more empathy in there.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because honest the thing it comes as you get older anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I also there's a song on the album called hurt
Me now uh, and I think something that happens as
well as you You feel this resilience when you've experienced
so much loss in such a bizarre way, you feel
this energy of wow, I've been so hurt. What can
you do now? You know? And it kind of makes
(16:28):
you fearless in a very unique way. Now that I
have a baby, Oh my gosh, I'm like don't hurt me.
Oh God, like don't do anything as if we have
control over anything. But yeah, but with that song, it
really is sort of saying like, Okay, I am carrying
this experience, and my way of being positive about it
is like trying to find any little semblance of power,
(16:53):
which can be really hard.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I love how you talk about channeling, and I think
that by virtue of truthfully creating as you do, it
kind of creates your purpose and it creates this immense
flow of giving back and receiving. And you know, I
think that the questions of what is your purpose is
(17:18):
so interlinked with what do you give back and what
is important to you? And I think channeling happens because
you are also giving, which creates the receiving. And I
know that that's a big part of your creating. Can
you talk about channeling for this album and how that
kind of has evolved for you.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
By the way, you just had the best voice. You
have such a calming laura and voice. It is just
it's gonna heal the world, Just gonna say it's getting
heal the Yeah, there was this there's this song on
the album called good for Me, and the origin of
that song began in the hospital room with my sister
(18:04):
when the whole world was shutting down and all of
a sudden there were no shows there, there was no
writing there, there was no ability to even leave wherever
you were. And it really makes you look at the
world differently when you realize that all of it can
go away, but what is staying? You know, it's like
(18:25):
these relationships that mean something to you. It's like the
little zoom dates we all did with each other, you know,
those connections are what means so much that creating that
community And so with that song good for me, I
mean that really became That was a song that I
(18:48):
never knew would come to Fruition at all and was
written years after the fact. And so being able to
have a song like that where the message still come through,
I think there is that sort of channeling that you
don't really have control over. But I hope that, you know,
(19:08):
with this idea of people feeling less alone, I hope
that their takeaway is really looking at their life and
being like, what is good for me? What is serving me?
What relationships are propelling me, are empowering me? And which
ones are no longer serving me?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, which is the perfect transition to the title. Oh yes,
and I need to know when that that inspiration struck
and how that came to you. It's so funny and
deep and brilliant.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Oh my gosh, well thank you. So that is a
lyric from this song I wrote with this amazing fellow
mom named Skuyler, and I was I was playing that
voice memo for her that I wrote in New York,
just this feeling of change and what comes with motherhood
(20:00):
and this sort of unspokenness of it all. And yeah,
the entire lyric is tell my therapist I'm fine. I'm
I'm done lying every time because I'm not fucking fine,
And yeah, I wanted there to be some humor to it.
And part of where the origin of that song came
(20:24):
from was I found myself not getting a lot out
of the therapy sessions I was going to because I
would really not share everything that I was feeling or
everything that I was going through, and that does nothing
for anyone. But yeah, that tell my Therapist I'm fine.
That really became the focal point of all of it.
(20:45):
And what mask are you wearing? And the entire album
really is about the human experience and just these trapters
of life, and therapy is a big one where you're
really exposed.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, so are you fine, pardnant? Are you fine?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I am fine? Or actually am I? I? Actually am?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I I I. I think so much changed when I
when I went along the journey of motherhood. You know,
you never really know if you never really know if
it's in the cards for you. But even just becoming pregnant,
(21:39):
it I even before I got pregnant, I had to
really sort out my mental health in a different way.
And part of that was, yeah, seeing a future for
myself which I hadn't I hadn't seen for a little
while there.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well it's really funny because you know, I asked the
question is joke. But it's interesting because I mentioned James
Bay earlier and he has a song on the record
called Hope, and we're talking with him about this sort
of you know, seeking hope in the writing and I'm
obsessed with Shane O'Connor got to interview her several times
(22:14):
and she said one of the most interesting things to
me ever, which is as a writer, you you have
this power to control your destiny, words manifest And it's
interesting because I'm finding this more and more. How it's
funny how a title that turns out to be kind
of flippant is in a way of self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yes, I mean, there's this song on the album called
Here Comes the Flood, and.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I love that song. By the way, Oh really, that's
probably my favorite on the record.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh good, okay, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
That's well. That one two punch period of the that
and single.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Oh thank You, I mean that's that song in particular,
was really trying to manifest, really trying to manifest the
hope and allow everything that happened to just wash over
me and I and I continue you on. Yeah, And
that was a big part of working with John Feldman,
(23:16):
who is just the most positive person ever.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And yeah, I love Feldy. He's been a friend for years.
But literally his Instagram every morning is him walking through
the mountains. I love my life.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah, I love my life. I was just about to
say that. I was like, do I share that?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I love How good is that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
He's he's just okay, wait, we got to wrap up
in a few minutes on let's stage finish it.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
But this is a great story. You'll appreciate this my
first FELDI meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It was at a Plank went a two release party
at Brian Dragon in LA which is one of the
juiciest fucking places in the world.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I don't know if you've ever been there. I have.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's such a shit check. But I was sitting with
all time Low interviewing them. Feladi is in a suit.
We're lined up in five seats. This fucking guy I've
never met slides across some lines across all five of us,
and he just looks up at me and like, we're
either gonna be great friends or there's the biggest asshole
in the world.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
We've become great friends stage.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
He've been to his house and he talked with her
about He's just he's the nicest guy.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
He's the best, all right. But yeah, so wait, he
produced the whole record. No, it was just that song.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
We were there together, and yeah it was the best.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, it's funny because there's that spirit of optimism that
both he and Travis have, and Travis especially I've known
for years and you know, having gone through his experiences,
he has such a sense of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So how much did that rub off on you?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Because both of them have been sober and really again
there's a dude who screams out of my life every day.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I mean I hope that. I hope that that
is something that I was subconsciously or consciously really needing
and that maybe that's why I was finding myself in
those sorts of rooms. And as someone that's been an
alan on for so long, I mean, having people like
that around me, it just brings me a lot of
(25:23):
joy and in what you know, people that are in
the program do, and yeah, so I really appreciate the positivity.
I try my best to exude that, so the fact
that they do it as well just means so much.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I love how you're such a mental health advocate and
the truthful human both in your music and outside of it.
It's like so vital for you know, the young ins
and anyone to really look at that and know for
them how that is and have a representation. But anyways,
for me, musicians, especially to protect your boundaries, to have
(26:04):
your sanctity, there's a lot of rituals that kind of
just happen, especially when you're making music. You're making an album,
and I think I'm very interested and I know that
there's many people out there that are interested. If there's
rituals that you have adopted in the last couple of
years that have been super helpful, especially in the creative process,
(26:25):
just in your own process, just as a mom, and
as all the things that you are.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, I think really trusting your gut. I think part
of the reason why I do feel fine and maybe,
you know, hopefully a little bit better than fine right
now is the people I've been working with, you know,
working with feminists, working with people that want you to
(26:52):
be your most empowered self. It's kind of a ritual
in listening to your gut and using it as a
mental health exercise of like, you don't have to stay
in any room if you don't want to, and if
something is off, it doesn't matter if it actually is.
If it's off to you, you leave that room. And
(27:13):
so even when we're talking about collaborators on this album,
you know, and this has been a year's worth of
worth of work, it's all people that I would like
love for you guys to meet, you know, or and
you guys have already met half of them. I'm just saying,
it's so nice to have that feeling. And so I.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Think that ritual of meeting and connecting with the people
that I'm going to be spending hours a day with,
especially if I'm going to be away from the baby, means,
you know, is the most important ritual I can put
myself in of leaving rooms if I'm not comfortable and
trusting that gut instinct, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
We've got to rub up at a second.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's funny because before this started, we were talking with
Jenny about Patti Smith.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Because me being.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Sometimes too dumb for my own good, I randomly texted
Patti Smith yesterday and said, would you do the podcast? Why?
I mean, I really know I've interviewed her, but yeah, anyway,
there's a fearlessness that stage will tell you sometimes goes
too far. But it's interesting the reason I bringing her
up she is we're also talking about Christmas Shofferson. Those
(28:26):
are two of my heroes, but Patty in particular is
to me probably the most fascinating person alive. And the
way that she just walked away from playing to seventy
thousand people in her own and said, Okay, I'm going
to be a mom for the next seventeen years. Like,
are there people that you've looked at or that are
(28:46):
inspirations for the way that you now balance the two.
Because it's interesting because I've also talked with fathers about
this and it's funny. The very first time I'm at Slash,
I didn't know him for shit. It was at a
San Diego street scene. I expected him to be this
guy with a fucking needle sticking out of his dick.
At he was the nicest person I've ever met and
(29:08):
still is. And he said to me, I just had
a baby. This is the first one I've ever had.
This is the first time I went'm away. I'm really
honored to be here. I can't wait to fucking get home.
So it definitely changes your mentality and how.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You approach work. So how are the people that you've
talked to or really to or a meyer.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I mean, balance is definitely a myth. I think it's
a societal thing that's put on us to make us
feel bad every single day. But other than that, I
think it really depends on what you're passionate about. So, like,
I love performing, and so my husband comes on the road,
and you know he's a musician as well. He comes
(29:50):
on the road, and when I'm playing a show at night,
he'll be with the baby on the bus. And so
because those are my goals. Someone like Pink is a
big example to me because she tours with her kids,
her husband's there, she really like brings the family along.
But I truly find every mom inspirational in whatever whatever
(30:15):
capacity they're showing up for their child, you know. And
my hope is just that it's you know, that they
are passionate about what they're doing and still feeling fulfilled
and also getting to be the most present mom that
they can be, you know, having I think. But the
idea of balance, that's a myth, that's that's just not
(30:37):
I don't think that exists. But that's what's so fun
is that you can have you can have days that
are completely out of balance, which means that you get
to spend so much time doing music or so much
time with the baby, you know, or both. I try
to put the worlds together too.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh well, I then we got to wrap up. So yeah,
anything that you want to have and ask you about.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
No, I mean, you guys are the best. Thank you
so much for taking the time. It's been so great.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Of course I emailed you a couple of times. I
always wanted to talk to you every projects.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Thank you, thank you. I appreciate you so much.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!