December 18, 2025 • 29 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to Day four of the Best of twenty
twenty five. Today, it was a really fun conversation with
pop superstars jessej very intimate, open conversation about sharing, about
playing too small crowds, about dealing on and off with fame,
(00:24):
dealing with grief, about new music.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So much more so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did.
It was really good to talk to Jesse Jay.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean you said you were just playing in the street.
It's that it's where like no, but I mean I
know what you meant. You know, it's kind of like
when you two were doing the you know where the
street's having a name video on the rooftop here in
La things and it's like, for you, is there an
excitement because it brings you just close to the audience,
(01:06):
to the fans.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's like, I just love how relatable it feels, how
close everyone feels. You can like feel the atmosphere, feel
the energy, feel the joy.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Like I just love London.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So it was in the middle of King's Cross, right
next to the station, just on the street, and there's
babies and kids and moms and dads and older Pete
was just so nice I don't even.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Know what's going on, but they're like, wow, this is
really Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Some people are walking past, going who's that singing? But
that just filming and having a good time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I mean, if you could
do a tour of then, like I thinking about I
don't know if you know the band popa Roach, but
they did a show at a pizza place here in
LA and it was so fun because round level, everybody
right in your face. Where would be your where would
(01:56):
be your dream tour? To deal my dream before? Like
that kind of venue where it's just like unconventional, you know,
but you get to play in like those places where
you're right with people.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Probably like a bowling alley tour, because I always associate
bowling with like a sociable, like inclusive sport and game,
and I just love bowling and.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I can do.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
You're a good bowler, No, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I'm okay, I'm better now.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I've taken my long nails off, so it's definitely easier
to bowl. But I do like Nie slides down the
bowling alley, you.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Know, I make the slide in the audience. I feel
like yeah, yeah, you know, because it is. I mean,
there's like I imagine, you know, I talk about these
people all the time, and we'll come on to the
new songs in the second. But you know, there's something
to be said for like mixing things up to keep
things fresh for you, you know, and however you do that.
(02:59):
You know, we know it's been four years. So with
four years, you know that in the day and age,
that time can almost feel like a new beginning. Does
it feel like a new beginning?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, it feels like a real celebration of my past
and a brand new beginning all at the same time.
So obviously, I bought out a song four years ago,
but it only was one song and I never did
any promo because I had a larynx issue, and so
the last time before that was eight years. So it
feels like it's been such a long time, and it
(03:33):
feels like I'm a whole new person, like I've had
a baby.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I just feel like I've got such a better perspective.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Obviously, I've had the highest of highs and I've had failure,
and I just feel like this time around, it just
feels like I'm truly in my body, like my authentic me,
and it just feels so much easier.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And I imagine also feels more.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Fun one hundred, Like, don't sweat the small stuff, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think when you get older, it's just easier to
like just focus on the bits that matter and like,
really and truly we're making music. It's not that deep,
Like we just want to feel good and like make
people feel something.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And I think that's just the biggest thing for me.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
But it's funny because you say it's getting older. I
imagine as well. I've talked about this with so many musicians,
you know, like James Bay, with Nadalie and Brulia. Once
you have a kid, none of that shit matters anymore
because it's like who cares what anybody else says, all
the managers, you're kid.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
All that matters is me waking up tomorrow morning, hugging
my boy and weirdly smelling his morning breath and just
making pancakes. That's the highlight of my day. So I
just feel grateful that I even have him. So yeah,
oldest now he is two in three weeks, which is wild.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Wow, he's so cute. He's such a good boy.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Does he have morning breath?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Now?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What's the morning.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Morning breath is like like hot and fishy. I love it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
All right, very cool. I mean it's funny. So it's
a pancake his favorite breakfast.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
He is obsessed. But it's also because we make a
lot of his breakfast on like a frying pan that's
got circles, so even if it's egg or like, it
could be anything oats, banana and cinnamon, and he's just
like pancake. Like I said to him, what breakfast do
you want for your birthday, Bobby? And he said, pancakes. Mummy,
please getting pancakes all right.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So it's funny though, because you say you're not trying
to like you know, you're making music. It's not that
deep as you put it. Yet I fucking love No
Secrets because for me, as someone who has interviewed everyone
from James Brown to Adele, like I say, the worst
drug in the world is fame, and I feel like
in No Secrets you do a very good job of
(05:50):
capturing the highs as you say, the highs and the lows.
It feels like a very authentic song. And I'm sure
there are some days where you love playing in the street,
and then there are other days where you're life when
everybody just leave me the fuck alone.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, some days you don't want to be touched or
spoken to. Yeah, that is literally I talk about it
so much with my family, where like when you feel
when you feel comfortable and you kind of share stuff
and it feels so good and you can relate and
like you connect with people, but then you open that door,
don't you to kind of just go come in and
talk to me about it whenever you want?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
And so there's that.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I'm an overshaerer anyway, and I do love that about
myself and I put everything out to the world because
I don't see myself as jesse j as a different
person to me as Jessica. Like my first song I
ever wrote, Big White Room, was about me watching a
little boy or die in hospital.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And I really don't feel like I've ever changed.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
When I write the songs, it really is about what
I've been through, and I share that with people because
that's what's made me the musician I am is actually
singing about real life. So yeah, and obviously with social
media now, everyone puts everything online and sometimes it's amazing
and sometimes it's not. But yeah, trying to intertwine that
with obviously the personal experience of fame, which you know,
I always say fame is like it's I've never been
(07:10):
very good at it, but I'm like trying to like
respect the bits that can actually be really good. And
I feel like sharing things that I go through to
help other people. I feel like that's been something that
I've felt over the years has been such a fulfilling
thing for me.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So I just don't want to stop doing that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, it's funny because, as you say, you know, now
with social media and everything being online, you're talking about fame,
but in the song No Secrets, it kind of relates
to people who are not famous can still identify with
the other day because it's like I think people feel,
you know, where do you stop? Where do you start?
Like why yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And everybody whatever you go through, Like just because obviously
I had a miscarriage, which is for me, the first
opening line is I lost my baby, but the show
must go on, right, and you know, obviously, so it's
so common and so many people had lost in so
many ways, and so many people have to go through
that and still turn up to work the next day,
or turn up to parent the next day, or turn
out you know, and so one of my favorite things
(08:11):
is to write my songs about my own life but
not too self absorbent that it can't be relatable, and
watching other people put the song to what they're going through.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
So one of it's my favorite thing about making music.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, it's interesting because I did a book a couple
of years ago called Anthems We Love And you know,
it's like you were twenty nine different artists from like
YouTube to Tom Waits, all these people about an anthem
and how it becomes an anthem and the evolution. But
one of the interesting things was talking with both Graham
Nash who wrote Our House, and Darryl Hall who wrote
Sarah Smile, And those were literally written about one person,
(08:47):
and somehow millions of people fucking love that song. So
I think, you know, have you found the more you
put yourself in there, the more people identify with.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It one hundred percent, because at the end of the day,
we're all layered humans, like we all go. Everyone's writing
the same song, but different melodies, different lyrics, Like it's
the same subjects it's money, grief, it's love, it's heartbreak,
it's it's sex, it's you know, it's it's life changing moments,
it's becoming a parent, it's anything. All of in the
(09:16):
same subjects are things that we go through as humans,
and obviously everyone just interprets it in their own way
or their own culture and upbringing their own language, their
own dialects.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
So it's just.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, I do feel like this album is just like
a diary entry, but also feels like everyone can sing
along to it, which is nice.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Thank you all So alive.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So how is the album done because I've only heard
that you song so far.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, So the album's done nearly, probably like eighty ninety
percent done. Yeah, So it's obviously what I love. My
first album, Who You Are, was probably was about six
to seven years of writing it before it came out,
and that's basically been what this has been. So the
first sessions that I did of songs that I started
to write for this record was in twenty nineteen, so
(10:02):
that was six years ago. So like the next song
that's coming out, Living My Best Life, That is a
song that I wrote with Ryan Tedder in twenty twenty.
I love Ryan, Yeah, He's my favorite. He literally texts
me this morning. I was like, Yo, we have to
get back in the studio. I was like, can we
just put these songs out first? I need to make
some money before I can come back in with you.
(10:24):
But he's one of the funniest people. We had such
a we just laughed eighty percent.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Of the day.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, he has one of the best stories I've ever heard.
You know, he just has worked with everybody, so has
these amazing stories.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, he's the storyteller. He's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah. So it's interesting for you. I mean, I love
the way you put it a diary entry that you
can sing along till. I mean when you think of
the albums that shaped you as a kid, those albums
that did that for you, you know, because it's funny.
I think when I think it was like diary entries,
I think of like Jony Blue. But that's not a
records you sing along till it's not happily. You know,
(11:01):
it's a fucking great record, but it's our record that
you know, you're sitting in a crowd of twenty thousand people,
you know, singing case of you. So what are those
albums like then have that personal feel, but then also
have just that like enjoyable, like you know, where a
crowd can sing along and scream with twenty thousand people.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, I feel like for me growing up, it was
seven Days by Craig David, it was crazy Sexy Cool
by TLC and Miseducation Lauren Hill. I'll never forget. I
was so young. I was eight or nine, and I
was like, oh, I.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Was just a little girl, skinny legs the press and
girl my mother, Oh was that a be star?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And I remember just like walking to dancing school just
being like, this is about me, this is my life
and obviously it wasn't. But like it's again that it's
that feeling, isn't it. It's just how the music makes
you feel. And Lauren Hill, Miss Education is the album
that made me want to write songs.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Well, no, that's like a great song. Does that? You know?
You hear it and you're like, wow, how they get it?
By head? Yeah they're talking to me, Yeah exactly how
do they know?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
But you know it's not about you at all, but
it is also but yeah, I love that album.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So for you, have you heard from people over the
years like that response, you know, because it's such a
gratifying feeling, like right, you're a kid, you're hearing Lauren
hill and you're like, I feel like it's about me.
And then you're older and now you're a singer and
people come up to you and be like, Wow, that
song saved my life, or that song says this, and
it's like.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I always say the same thing to everyone that comes
up to me and says that, like, oh, this song
saved my life. And I always looked them in the
eye and say, I didn't save your life.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You did.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I was the soundtrack let's get the rolls right, because
you're the one that did that. And I just I
feel I've always said I love being people's like soundtrack
to their good and bad days. You know that this album,
for me, this album is the is the journey from
grief to happen. I had a lot of loss in
one period of time, and I think grief is such
a personal, hidden journey that a lot of people have
(13:08):
going on in the back of their heads, and I
found it really hard to find that spark for life again.
But I also love I just love it when people
come up to me and go this song made me
get out of bed, or this song made me not
give up, or this song made me leave the toxic
relationship or you know this song made me get through
my divorce, and I'm like, really that song, like it's
(13:29):
so I would never imagine that. But I also love
that that's their personal take on it.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well now, I mean, yeah, it's I've talked about this
with the other musicians. Is you know, grief is the
most personal thing and it's so different and it's so
not linear, and you have no idea when it's going
to turn around and just smack you upside the head.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, I wanted.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To deal with it, you know, like, are there there's
moments where you feel like you're doing great and then
it comes back You're just like what the fuck?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Like, I I lost someone really close to me that
was really close on my team.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He was my security guard.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So even coming back the way I am now, especially
in the UK, it just reminds me of him and
just feel like he should be here and he's not.
And so I have these moments every now and again
where I just get this rush of like severe sadness
and I just some if I can, I just let
it out. I don't think I want to keep it
in my body. So but I like I've written songs
on this album that are grief songs, specific grief songs
(14:31):
about losing him, losing my baby that I like, I
literally have gone right. I've got a three and a
half minute song where I'm just gonna go ham and
just cry and let it out, turn it up in
my car.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Like giving myself like a safe space to just go.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
This is the song that I'm allowed to just let
it all out and like trigger myself to let it
out because grief stain and the body is never good.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So well, it's interesting when you start a song like
you said no secrets when you started with you know,
I'll ask my VB with the show must On, how
have people like you know, I imagine so many people identify
with that. What are some of the responses you've heard already?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It makes me heartbroken the amount of people that can
relate to it like it breaks my heart. How many
men and women have to go through grief in that
way in so many different stages, you know, whether it's
six weeks, ten weeks, or still born, or when you
lose a child and they're older or younger.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I just it just feels like the cruelest experience.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And I was very lucky and that's what gave me
great perspective, is that you know, it could have been
so much worse, And I didn't realize me talking about it,
what it would do for other other people, especially women,
for me to talk about it so openly, so to
know that I can be a safe space for women
to come up to and go, hey, I went through
that same thing, and none of my family know or
(15:50):
you know that you got me through that. And it
was so confident to see you talk about it in
the truth that it is because it's awful.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
There's no other way to explain it. It's awful.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It's not like and it's such an awful traumatic experience
and painful experience that once you got through it, you
don't really want to talk about it. So I get
that it's not a usual thing for people to talk about.
But because I talked about it publicly, literally the day
I was told, the day after I was told, there
was no heartbeat, I posted about it. Little to know
that I was about to go through this awful, painful experience,
(16:23):
like physically painful, that you know, to document that and
to go through that publicly, it was really powerful and
it really really helped the loneliness that you feel. It
made me feel so less alone.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Interesting if you I mean, as you say, not knowing
that you were going to go through that physical pain,
it is interesting. Would you do it the same way?
I mean, it's funny because it's like you do something
sometimes and you don't necessarily you know, especially when you're
a singer. As we talk about it, you're used to
being the public guy. But you know, it's also sometimes
so hard to share all of that stuff. Do you
(17:12):
feel like it was you know, to your benefit to
share it all.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I don't regret it, as I said, like I've always
been an open book, and I feel like because I
lived in La on my own and I got pregnant
on my own, and that was a decision I had made,
and obviously when I lost the baby and I wasn't
with family, and so like for me, like sharing it
with the people in the world, I like to have
(17:37):
faith in the human race that people are good people.
And the people that literally just wrapped their arms around me,
that were strangers, just was so beautiful in that moment.
And the only thing, as I say, and I kind
of discussed it in No Secrets, is that once you
share something, there's little boundaries on when then people want
(17:57):
to talk to you about it. And there might be
a day I'm not really in the mood to talk
about it, or I don't want to talk about it,
and that's when I probably struggle the most. But most
of the time I'm able to kind of compartmentalize it.
But I don't regret it at all. I think it
was maybe not something I would do. I think my
(18:18):
parpis probably would have told me it was a mistake.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
They always do so, but no, I feel like.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It was me and I was being true to myself
and who I am and how I share things.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And it's funny, like you say, for you that just
makes you such a better musician, But it also feels like,
you know, it's one of those things that when you
do that, and only does it make your better musicians,
As they say, everybody identifies with you so much more
so you find people that all of a sudden, you know,
don't know you, who think you're their best friend, which,
to be blunt, I think part of the reason I
(18:52):
asked if you regt it, it's like sometimes that would drive
me crazy when everybody thinks they know you.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, no, it's definitely a difficult line to ride, and yeah,
I mean there is. And I also try and make
sure that I remember that that's not about me, that's
about them.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
And I think when people come up to you, the
way they conduct.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Themselves is their own thing and they control that, not me,
and so I kind of just try not to take
it in if it's not a comfortable conversation or people
are too comfortable or say things that are inappropriate about
anything personal that I've shared, and just kind of think
that I wouldn't choose you to be my friend, so
I'm not going to expect you to get it right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well. It's interesting though, because the podcast component of this
is called in Service Seruv, and it started with the
idea of, you know, giving back philanthropically, but you know,
music is giving back in so many different ways. And
it's funny because when you say you'd like to believe
in the good and human people, you know, like, dude,
if you live in America right now, that's fucking hard
(19:55):
not gonna lie around our industry. So hearing you say
that is like, all right, so maybe there is still hope,
you know, and like, you know, service can be on
such a broad level. So for you, talk about how
giving back you know, infuses your music and what it
means and all other particular charities that the like are
really close to your heart.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
There's so many on my goodness, like Make a Wish
Foundation is probably the one that's closest to me, just
because obviously I grew up in hospitals when I was younger,
and it breaks my heart that kids have any sadness
in their lives. I mean, the world is, as you say,
is a mess right now. But as I said, I
will always promote the things that the thing that I
believe in the most, and that is talking about love
and closeness and connectiveness and joy and good human beings
(20:40):
that wish well for all everywhere around the world and
peace for everybody.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
And so.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, any any charity that gives back to the world
being equal and loved everywhere is I give to so
many charities. Oh my god, I had a stroke when
I was seventeen, and I have a heart problem, so
I give a lot to specific charities that are close
to me, but Make a Wish is definitely close to
my heart for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And talk about for you too, how it diffuses your
music because having gone through so many personal issues, like
you say, you know, you can understand that when people
didn't get that, you.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Know, I also do ondred percent. And I think the
biggest thing is perspective. I think that the one thing
that my life has helped me gain is huge perspective
on just like, don't sweat the small stuff, and when
you're going through something, there is always someone going through
something worse that doesn't dilute what you're going through, but
also can give you better perspective. And yeah, I just
(21:43):
I have I've just I have just a big EmPATH.
I just have a lot of love to give and
I try and give it through my music. As I said,
my next song is called Living My Best Life and
it literally is just I feel like a song the
world needs right now just to dance to and like
enjoy it and let go and you know, and.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Because it is a heavy it's a heavy world.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, I don't know is it as bad in Britain
right now, but I mean here it's like.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh yeah, it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean I think everywhere obviously is it has it
has their own struggles and sometimes there's the countries at
the top of the Mountain some that you know, But yeah,
America definitely, it's definitely been. There's definitely a lot of
poison right now, you know. And it's sad to see.
I mean, I lived in LA for ten years. I
only moved back to London five months ago, so you know,
(22:35):
I it's so close to my heart. But yeah, as
I say, I will only ever talk about things that
I believe in, which is love, equality for all, you know, freedom, peace.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, So sad.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's funny though I'm a big believer in how environment
effects writing. So was most of this stuff written before
you got back to life in so Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So I basically did an album in LA with various
people in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty twenty I
went in with Ryan during COVID, So we were in
the studio on and off because of COVID for about
a year, and so I wrote all of these songs
about kind of my experience of California and like and
just what I've been through there.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
And then.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Me and my record label had some like A and
R switches and stuff, and then I ended up writing
another album that was R and B with Jesse Boykins,
Los Hendrix and various other producers, and that's where I
did like no Secrets, so like no Secrets to live
our best life for two completely different records from two
completely different times.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
But again, as I say with Layered humans.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
We go through all these different things and I'm like,
share it all, you know, and no one wants to
listen to the same kind of song over and over
and over again. So yeah, I was in America for
basically all of it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, and it's interesting do you find it like, you know,
because why didn't Layer not as drastically different? But I
remember talking with like an Icelandic band, you know, and
where it's so gold and I was like, you know,
then you come to LA and I'm like, are you
now writing your Beach Boys songs?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I mean, for me, the one thing that I love
about LA and I love about America, which is different
to the UK. They don't apologize for being good at
something like English people naturally go sorry, I'm good at this,
Like I'm kind like like I'm sorry that I'm talented.
And I feel like in America it's like, this is
(24:32):
what I'm good at and I'm going to own it.
And I love that and I love both of them,
but I feel like there's a happy medium and I've
still got that in my blood of just like, oh,
like i think I'm good at singing, like thanks for
liking my song. But then being in LA for ten years,
I think it gave me that confidence in my music
to like, I've got a song called California, you know,
(24:53):
and it's just like I said, I want to be
somebody that's someone who says they know somebody.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Like and that's the kind of energy that LA gave me.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
And I'm so grateful for that because it's definitely helped
me blossom into the person I am.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Now that's funny because then when you go back and
you're like, yeah, I'm fucking good at this.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, And then my friend it was quite self deprecating
and I'm like, no, girl, you could do it like
it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It is funny. Also, I think does we talked about
it and I know we got to wrap up in
a minute. But when you get older, you know, you
get that confidence. So for you, you know, talk about
how that started to appear in you, that thing of like, yeah,
I'm good and again, why should you apologize for it
if you're good at something. I mean, Robert Plant told
me I was good at interviewing. I'm not going to
(25:41):
fucking apologize for that.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
No, it's true.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I always say when people go when people say, like,
like you don't want to like a heart surgeon to
come in and go. You know, I'm kind of okay,
You're like, you better own it. You better know that
you can fix my heart, you know. So I always
say that, like there's not many things up a main
but like I should be good at my job. I
should be able to write a good song, and I
(26:03):
should be better live than in the studio. And I
pride myself on that I work hard. I'm very disciplined,
and I love what I do. I love people coming
to watch my show knowing that I'm doing things that
they can't do. Like I don't want to go and
watch an ice skater and a thing. I could do that
at the local rink. You know, I want to be impressed.
I want to be wowed. So like I hold it
(26:24):
testimony to myself that I create songs that are like
sing it with me, and then also don't sing it.
Let me have my moment, let me entertain you. And
I think there's obviously a good balance with that. But
I just love to sing ever since I was a kid. Like, honestly,
I don't think it's come from anything within. When I
really think back to when I was younger, from like
super young, like eight or nine, when I started doing
(26:45):
like Western musicals, the thing that made me go, made
me have confidence wasn't thinking about myself and if I
was good or not.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It was watching people's reaction to me that gave.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Me the joy to be like, I'm really good at
this because they're enjoying it. Like watching people be happy
when I sang was such a drug for me, Like
I was like, that's what I love. That was the
thing that made me want to do musicals, want to
do stuff when I was super young, and that hasn't
really gone away even now. Like it's so funny, like
the silliest things. There's like there's always that one person
(27:19):
in the audience that I can that I can see
is maybe like a plus one or that they're maybe
like looking at their phone a lot, and I'm like you,
I'm gonna win you over, and I like it's just
my own little challenge that I give myself and a show.
And if they applaud at the end, and I just like, yeah, yeah,
I can feel that they've I'm like that makes me
so happy.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Nice. Yeah, So for you, I will wrap up on
this last question, Who's the best perform where you've ever
seen that one that inspired you that much where you're like,
all right, this is you know what I want to
do for everybody? Best shait you've ever seen?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Prince. I saw Prince at the O two twice.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
He did like some shows back to back and my
A and R Lucy Francis. I was signed to Gut
Records and Go Homes years ago with Crazy Frog, and
she got me tickets and I'll never forget it. Just
he what everyone left for the break and you could
see people like, you know, like the stairs are super high,
like almost.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Like they're walking into like heaven.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
And he just started to sit doing Purple Rain and
it was like watching people hold trays of beers trying
to run back to their seats. I just love the
confidence of like this show I'm in control of And
I went to see it two nights in a row.
It was a completely different setlist, completely different order, and
I just loved, like the confidence and like the unapologetic
(28:40):
energy of like, this is who I am, and this
is the show you're going to watch, and you're gonna
enjoy it, and I'm going to kill it. And he
did it, and he and his band all high five
of me on the way out, and I was just gassed.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
I was like, eighteen, amazing, Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
What do you want people to take from the album
and they hear it?
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I want them to feel.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
The freedom of feeling whatever there is is that you
want to feel in your life right now, whether that's grief, happiness, joy,
that all of them are there for your taking, and
that it's really up to you to control the relationship
that your heart has with your mind.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Well, I know we've got to wrap up anything you
want to add and ask you out. No, no, I
enjoyed this soul, which we had more time to talk
about writing. But you know, thirty minutes, Gods.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Quick, always it's always so quick. I actually don't believe
it's actually been half an hour.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Cool. Well, thank you so much for the time, and
I can't wait to you the rest of the record.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, seeing you
Welcome back to Day four of the Best of twenty
twenty five. Today, it was a really fun conversation with
pop superstars jessej very intimate, open conversation about sharing, about
playing too small crowds, about dealing on and off with fame,
(00:24):
dealing with grief, about new music.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So much more so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did.
It was really good to talk to Jesse Jay.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean you said you were just playing in the street.
It's that it's where like no, but I mean I
know what you meant. You know, it's kind of like
when you two were doing the you know where the
street's having a name video on the rooftop here in
La things and it's like, for you, is there an
excitement because it brings you just close to the audience,
(01:06):
to the fans.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's like, I just love how relatable it feels, how
close everyone feels. You can like feel the atmosphere, feel
the energy, feel the joy.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Like I just love London.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So it was in the middle of King's Cross, right
next to the station, just on the street, and there's
babies and kids and moms and dads and older Pete
was just so nice I don't even.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Know what's going on, but they're like, wow, this is
really Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Some people are walking past, going who's that singing? But
that just filming and having a good time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I mean, if you could
do a tour of then, like I thinking about I
don't know if you know the band popa Roach, but
they did a show at a pizza place here in
LA and it was so fun because round level, everybody
right in your face. Where would be your where would
(01:56):
be your dream tour? To deal my dream before? Like
that kind of venue where it's just like unconventional, you know,
but you get to play in like those places where
you're right with people.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Probably like a bowling alley tour, because I always associate
bowling with like a sociable, like inclusive sport and game,
and I just love bowling and.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I can do.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
You're a good bowler, No, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I'm okay, I'm better now.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I've taken my long nails off, so it's definitely easier
to bowl. But I do like Nie slides down the
bowling alley, you.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Know, I make the slide in the audience. I feel
like yeah, yeah, you know, because it is. I mean,
there's like I imagine, you know, I talk about these
people all the time, and we'll come on to the
new songs in the second. But you know, there's something
to be said for like mixing things up to keep
things fresh for you, you know, and however you do that.
(02:59):
You know, we know it's been four years. So with
four years, you know that in the day and age,
that time can almost feel like a new beginning. Does
it feel like a new beginning?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, it feels like a real celebration of my past
and a brand new beginning all at the same time.
So obviously, I bought out a song four years ago,
but it only was one song and I never did
any promo because I had a larynx issue, and so
the last time before that was eight years. So it
feels like it's been such a long time, and it
(03:33):
feels like I'm a whole new person, like I've had
a baby.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I just feel like I've got such a better perspective.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Obviously, I've had the highest of highs and I've had failure,
and I just feel like this time around, it just
feels like I'm truly in my body, like my authentic me,
and it just feels so much easier.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And I imagine also feels more.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Fun one hundred, Like, don't sweat the small stuff, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think when you get older, it's just easier to
like just focus on the bits that matter and like,
really and truly we're making music. It's not that deep,
Like we just want to feel good and like make
people feel something.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And I think that's just the biggest thing for me.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
But it's funny because you say it's getting older. I
imagine as well. I've talked about this with so many musicians,
you know, like James Bay, with Nadalie and Brulia. Once
you have a kid, none of that shit matters anymore
because it's like who cares what anybody else says, all
the managers, you're kid.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
All that matters is me waking up tomorrow morning, hugging
my boy and weirdly smelling his morning breath and just
making pancakes. That's the highlight of my day. So I
just feel grateful that I even have him. So yeah,
oldest now he is two in three weeks, which is wild.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Wow, he's so cute. He's such a good boy.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Does he have morning breath?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Now?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What's the morning.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Morning breath is like like hot and fishy. I love it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
All right, very cool. I mean it's funny. So it's
a pancake his favorite breakfast.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
He is obsessed. But it's also because we make a
lot of his breakfast on like a frying pan that's
got circles, so even if it's egg or like, it
could be anything oats, banana and cinnamon, and he's just
like pancake. Like I said to him, what breakfast do
you want for your birthday, Bobby? And he said, pancakes. Mummy,
please getting pancakes all right.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So it's funny though, because you say you're not trying
to like you know, you're making music. It's not that
deep as you put it. Yet I fucking love No
Secrets because for me, as someone who has interviewed everyone
from James Brown to Adele, like I say, the worst
drug in the world is fame, and I feel like
in No Secrets you do a very good job of
(05:50):
capturing the highs as you say, the highs and the lows.
It feels like a very authentic song. And I'm sure
there are some days where you love playing in the street,
and then there are other days where you're life when
everybody just leave me the fuck alone.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, some days you don't want to be touched or
spoken to. Yeah, that is literally I talk about it
so much with my family, where like when you feel
when you feel comfortable and you kind of share stuff
and it feels so good and you can relate and
like you connect with people, but then you open that door,
don't you to kind of just go come in and
talk to me about it whenever you want?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
And so there's that.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I'm an overshaerer anyway, and I do love that about
myself and I put everything out to the world because
I don't see myself as jesse j as a different
person to me as Jessica. Like my first song I
ever wrote, Big White Room, was about me watching a
little boy or die in hospital.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And I really don't feel like I've ever changed.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
When I write the songs, it really is about what
I've been through, and I share that with people because
that's what's made me the musician I am is actually
singing about real life. So yeah, and obviously with social
media now, everyone puts everything online and sometimes it's amazing
and sometimes it's not. But yeah, trying to intertwine that
with obviously the personal experience of fame, which you know,
I always say fame is like it's I've never been
(07:10):
very good at it, but I'm like trying to like
respect the bits that can actually be really good. And
I feel like sharing things that I go through to
help other people. I feel like that's been something that
I've felt over the years has been such a fulfilling
thing for me.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So I just don't want to stop doing that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, it's funny because, as you say, you know, now
with social media and everything being online, you're talking about fame,
but in the song No Secrets, it kind of relates
to people who are not famous can still identify with
the other day because it's like I think people feel,
you know, where do you stop? Where do you start?
Like why yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And everybody whatever you go through, Like just because obviously
I had a miscarriage, which is for me, the first
opening line is I lost my baby, but the show
must go on, right, and you know, obviously, so it's
so common and so many people had lost in so
many ways, and so many people have to go through
that and still turn up to work the next day,
or turn up to parent the next day, or turn
out you know, and so one of my favorite things
(08:11):
is to write my songs about my own life but
not too self absorbent that it can't be relatable, and
watching other people put the song to what they're going through.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
So one of it's my favorite thing about making music.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, it's interesting because I did a book a couple
of years ago called Anthems We Love And you know,
it's like you were twenty nine different artists from like
YouTube to Tom Waits, all these people about an anthem
and how it becomes an anthem and the evolution. But
one of the interesting things was talking with both Graham
Nash who wrote Our House, and Darryl Hall who wrote
Sarah Smile, And those were literally written about one person,
(08:47):
and somehow millions of people fucking love that song. So
I think, you know, have you found the more you
put yourself in there, the more people identify with.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It one hundred percent, because at the end of the day,
we're all layered humans, like we all go. Everyone's writing
the same song, but different melodies, different lyrics, Like it's
the same subjects it's money, grief, it's love, it's heartbreak,
it's it's sex, it's you know, it's it's life changing moments,
it's becoming a parent, it's anything. All of in the
(09:16):
same subjects are things that we go through as humans,
and obviously everyone just interprets it in their own way
or their own culture and upbringing their own language, their
own dialects.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
So it's just.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, I do feel like this album is just like
a diary entry, but also feels like everyone can sing
along to it, which is nice.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Thank you all So alive.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So how is the album done because I've only heard
that you song so far.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, So the album's done nearly, probably like eighty ninety
percent done. Yeah, So it's obviously what I love. My
first album, Who You Are, was probably was about six
to seven years of writing it before it came out,
and that's basically been what this has been. So the
first sessions that I did of songs that I started
to write for this record was in twenty nineteen, so
(10:02):
that was six years ago. So like the next song
that's coming out, Living My Best Life, That is a
song that I wrote with Ryan Tedder in twenty twenty.
I love Ryan, Yeah, He's my favorite. He literally texts
me this morning. I was like, Yo, we have to
get back in the studio. I was like, can we
just put these songs out first? I need to make
some money before I can come back in with you.
(10:24):
But he's one of the funniest people. We had such
a we just laughed eighty percent.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Of the day.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, he has one of the best stories I've ever heard.
You know, he just has worked with everybody, so has
these amazing stories.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, he's the storyteller. He's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah. So it's interesting for you. I mean, I love
the way you put it a diary entry that you
can sing along till. I mean when you think of
the albums that shaped you as a kid, those albums
that did that for you, you know, because it's funny.
I think when I think it was like diary entries,
I think of like Jony Blue. But that's not a
records you sing along till it's not happily. You know,
(11:01):
it's a fucking great record, but it's our record that
you know, you're sitting in a crowd of twenty thousand people,
you know, singing case of you. So what are those
albums like then have that personal feel, but then also
have just that like enjoyable, like you know, where a
crowd can sing along and scream with twenty thousand people.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, I feel like for me growing up, it was
seven Days by Craig David, it was crazy Sexy Cool
by TLC and Miseducation Lauren Hill. I'll never forget. I
was so young. I was eight or nine, and I
was like, oh, I.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Was just a little girl, skinny legs the press and
girl my mother, Oh was that a be star?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And I remember just like walking to dancing school just
being like, this is about me, this is my life
and obviously it wasn't. But like it's again that it's
that feeling, isn't it. It's just how the music makes
you feel. And Lauren Hill, Miss Education is the album
that made me want to write songs.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Well, no, that's like a great song. Does that? You know?
You hear it and you're like, wow, how they get it?
By head? Yeah they're talking to me, Yeah exactly how
do they know?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
But you know it's not about you at all, but
it is also but yeah, I love that album.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So for you, have you heard from people over the
years like that response, you know, because it's such a
gratifying feeling, like right, you're a kid, you're hearing Lauren
hill and you're like, I feel like it's about me.
And then you're older and now you're a singer and
people come up to you and be like, Wow, that
song saved my life, or that song says this, and
it's like.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I always say the same thing to everyone that comes
up to me and says that, like, oh, this song
saved my life. And I always looked them in the
eye and say, I didn't save your life.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You did.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I was the soundtrack let's get the rolls right, because
you're the one that did that. And I just I
feel I've always said I love being people's like soundtrack
to their good and bad days. You know that this album,
for me, this album is the is the journey from
grief to happen. I had a lot of loss in
one period of time, and I think grief is such
a personal, hidden journey that a lot of people have
(13:08):
going on in the back of their heads, and I
found it really hard to find that spark for life again.
But I also love I just love it when people
come up to me and go this song made me
get out of bed, or this song made me not
give up, or this song made me leave the toxic
relationship or you know this song made me get through
my divorce, and I'm like, really that song, like it's
(13:29):
so I would never imagine that. But I also love
that that's their personal take on it.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well now, I mean, yeah, it's I've talked about this
with the other musicians. Is you know, grief is the
most personal thing and it's so different and it's so
not linear, and you have no idea when it's going
to turn around and just smack you upside the head.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, I wanted.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To deal with it, you know, like, are there there's
moments where you feel like you're doing great and then
it comes back You're just like what the fuck?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Like, I I lost someone really close to me that
was really close on my team.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He was my security guard.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So even coming back the way I am now, especially
in the UK, it just reminds me of him and
just feel like he should be here and he's not.
And so I have these moments every now and again
where I just get this rush of like severe sadness
and I just some if I can, I just let
it out. I don't think I want to keep it
in my body. So but I like I've written songs
on this album that are grief songs, specific grief songs
(14:31):
about losing him, losing my baby that I like, I
literally have gone right. I've got a three and a
half minute song where I'm just gonna go ham and
just cry and let it out, turn it up in
my car.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Like giving myself like a safe space to just go.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
This is the song that I'm allowed to just let
it all out and like trigger myself to let it
out because grief stain and the body is never good.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So well, it's interesting when you start a song like
you said no secrets when you started with you know,
I'll ask my VB with the show must On, how
have people like you know, I imagine so many people identify
with that. What are some of the responses you've heard already?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It makes me heartbroken the amount of people that can
relate to it like it breaks my heart. How many
men and women have to go through grief in that
way in so many different stages, you know, whether it's
six weeks, ten weeks, or still born, or when you
lose a child and they're older or younger.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I just it just feels like the cruelest experience.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And I was very lucky and that's what gave me
great perspective, is that you know, it could have been
so much worse, And I didn't realize me talking about it,
what it would do for other other people, especially women,
for me to talk about it so openly, so to
know that I can be a safe space for women
to come up to and go, hey, I went through
that same thing, and none of my family know or
(15:50):
you know that you got me through that. And it
was so confident to see you talk about it in
the truth that it is because it's awful.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
There's no other way to explain it. It's awful.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It's not like and it's such an awful traumatic experience
and painful experience that once you got through it, you
don't really want to talk about it. So I get
that it's not a usual thing for people to talk about.
But because I talked about it publicly, literally the day
I was told, the day after I was told, there
was no heartbeat, I posted about it. Little to know
that I was about to go through this awful, painful experience,
(16:23):
like physically painful, that you know, to document that and
to go through that publicly, it was really powerful and
it really really helped the loneliness that you feel. It
made me feel so less alone.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Interesting if you I mean, as you say, not knowing
that you were going to go through that physical pain,
it is interesting. Would you do it the same way?
I mean, it's funny because it's like you do something
sometimes and you don't necessarily you know, especially when you're
a singer. As we talk about it, you're used to
being the public guy. But you know, it's also sometimes
so hard to share all of that stuff. Do you
(17:12):
feel like it was you know, to your benefit to
share it all.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I don't regret it, as I said, like I've always
been an open book, and I feel like because I
lived in La on my own and I got pregnant
on my own, and that was a decision I had made,
and obviously when I lost the baby and I wasn't
with family, and so like for me, like sharing it
with the people in the world, I like to have
(17:37):
faith in the human race that people are good people.
And the people that literally just wrapped their arms around me,
that were strangers, just was so beautiful in that moment.
And the only thing, as I say, and I kind
of discussed it in No Secrets, is that once you
share something, there's little boundaries on when then people want
(17:57):
to talk to you about it. And there might be
a day I'm not really in the mood to talk
about it, or I don't want to talk about it,
and that's when I probably struggle the most. But most
of the time I'm able to kind of compartmentalize it.
But I don't regret it at all. I think it
was maybe not something I would do. I think my
(18:18):
parpis probably would have told me it was a mistake.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
They always do so, but no, I feel like.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It was me and I was being true to myself
and who I am and how I share things.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And it's funny, like you say, for you that just
makes you such a better musician, But it also feels like,
you know, it's one of those things that when you
do that, and only does it make your better musicians,
As they say, everybody identifies with you so much more
so you find people that all of a sudden, you know,
don't know you, who think you're their best friend, which,
to be blunt, I think part of the reason I
(18:52):
asked if you regt it, it's like sometimes that would drive
me crazy when everybody thinks they know you.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, no, it's definitely a difficult line to ride, and yeah,
I mean there is. And I also try and make
sure that I remember that that's not about me, that's
about them.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
And I think when people come up to you, the
way they conduct.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Themselves is their own thing and they control that, not me,
and so I kind of just try not to take
it in if it's not a comfortable conversation or people
are too comfortable or say things that are inappropriate about
anything personal that I've shared, and just kind of think
that I wouldn't choose you to be my friend, so
I'm not going to expect you to get it right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well. It's interesting though, because the podcast component of this
is called in Service Seruv, and it started with the
idea of, you know, giving back philanthropically, but you know,
music is giving back in so many different ways. And
it's funny because when you say you'd like to believe
in the good and human people, you know, like, dude,
if you live in America right now, that's fucking hard
(19:55):
not gonna lie around our industry. So hearing you say
that is like, all right, so maybe there is still hope,
you know, and like, you know, service can be on
such a broad level. So for you, talk about how
giving back you know, infuses your music and what it
means and all other particular charities that the like are
really close to your heart.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
There's so many on my goodness, like Make a Wish
Foundation is probably the one that's closest to me, just
because obviously I grew up in hospitals when I was younger,
and it breaks my heart that kids have any sadness
in their lives. I mean, the world is, as you say,
is a mess right now. But as I said, I
will always promote the things that the thing that I
believe in the most, and that is talking about love
and closeness and connectiveness and joy and good human beings
(20:40):
that wish well for all everywhere around the world and
peace for everybody.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
And so.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, any any charity that gives back to the world
being equal and loved everywhere is I give to so
many charities. Oh my god, I had a stroke when
I was seventeen, and I have a heart problem, so
I give a lot to specific charities that are close
to me, but Make a Wish is definitely close to
my heart for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And talk about for you too, how it diffuses your
music because having gone through so many personal issues, like
you say, you know, you can understand that when people
didn't get that, you.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Know, I also do ondred percent. And I think the
biggest thing is perspective. I think that the one thing
that my life has helped me gain is huge perspective
on just like, don't sweat the small stuff, and when
you're going through something, there is always someone going through
something worse that doesn't dilute what you're going through, but
also can give you better perspective. And yeah, I just
(21:43):
I have I've just I have just a big EmPATH.
I just have a lot of love to give and
I try and give it through my music. As I said,
my next song is called Living My Best Life and
it literally is just I feel like a song the
world needs right now just to dance to and like
enjoy it and let go and you know, and.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Because it is a heavy it's a heavy world.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, I don't know is it as bad in Britain
right now, but I mean here it's like.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh yeah, it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean I think everywhere obviously is it has it
has their own struggles and sometimes there's the countries at
the top of the Mountain some that you know, But yeah,
America definitely, it's definitely been. There's definitely a lot of
poison right now, you know. And it's sad to see.
I mean, I lived in LA for ten years. I
only moved back to London five months ago, so you know,
(22:35):
I it's so close to my heart. But yeah, as
I say, I will only ever talk about things that
I believe in, which is love, equality for all, you know, freedom, peace.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, So sad.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's funny though I'm a big believer in how environment
effects writing. So was most of this stuff written before
you got back to life in so Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So I basically did an album in LA with various
people in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty twenty I
went in with Ryan during COVID, So we were in
the studio on and off because of COVID for about
a year, and so I wrote all of these songs
about kind of my experience of California and like and
just what I've been through there.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
And then.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Me and my record label had some like A and
R switches and stuff, and then I ended up writing
another album that was R and B with Jesse Boykins,
Los Hendrix and various other producers, and that's where I
did like no Secrets, so like no Secrets to live
our best life for two completely different records from two
completely different times.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
But again, as I say with Layered humans.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
We go through all these different things and I'm like,
share it all, you know, and no one wants to
listen to the same kind of song over and over
and over again. So yeah, I was in America for
basically all of it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, and it's interesting do you find it like, you know,
because why didn't Layer not as drastically different? But I
remember talking with like an Icelandic band, you know, and
where it's so gold and I was like, you know,
then you come to LA and I'm like, are you
now writing your Beach Boys songs?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I mean, for me, the one thing that I love
about LA and I love about America, which is different
to the UK. They don't apologize for being good at
something like English people naturally go sorry, I'm good at this,
Like I'm kind like like I'm sorry that I'm talented.
And I feel like in America it's like, this is
(24:32):
what I'm good at and I'm going to own it.
And I love that and I love both of them,
but I feel like there's a happy medium and I've
still got that in my blood of just like, oh,
like i think I'm good at singing, like thanks for
liking my song. But then being in LA for ten years,
I think it gave me that confidence in my music
to like, I've got a song called California, you know,
(24:53):
and it's just like I said, I want to be
somebody that's someone who says they know somebody.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Like and that's the kind of energy that LA gave me.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
And I'm so grateful for that because it's definitely helped
me blossom into the person I am.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Now that's funny because then when you go back and
you're like, yeah, I'm fucking good at this.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, And then my friend it was quite self deprecating
and I'm like, no, girl, you could do it like
it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It is funny. Also, I think does we talked about
it and I know we got to wrap up in
a minute. But when you get older, you know, you
get that confidence. So for you, you know, talk about
how that started to appear in you, that thing of like, yeah,
I'm good and again, why should you apologize for it
if you're good at something. I mean, Robert Plant told
me I was good at interviewing. I'm not going to
(25:41):
fucking apologize for that.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
No, it's true.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I always say when people go when people say, like,
like you don't want to like a heart surgeon to
come in and go. You know, I'm kind of okay,
You're like, you better own it. You better know that
you can fix my heart, you know. So I always
say that, like there's not many things up a main
but like I should be good at my job. I
should be able to write a good song, and I
(26:03):
should be better live than in the studio. And I
pride myself on that I work hard. I'm very disciplined,
and I love what I do. I love people coming
to watch my show knowing that I'm doing things that
they can't do. Like I don't want to go and
watch an ice skater and a thing. I could do that
at the local rink. You know, I want to be impressed.
I want to be wowed. So like I hold it
(26:24):
testimony to myself that I create songs that are like
sing it with me, and then also don't sing it.
Let me have my moment, let me entertain you. And
I think there's obviously a good balance with that. But
I just love to sing ever since I was a kid. Like, honestly,
I don't think it's come from anything within. When I
really think back to when I was younger, from like
super young, like eight or nine, when I started doing
(26:45):
like Western musicals, the thing that made me go, made
me have confidence wasn't thinking about myself and if I
was good or not.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It was watching people's reaction to me that gave.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Me the joy to be like, I'm really good at
this because they're enjoying it. Like watching people be happy
when I sang was such a drug for me, Like
I was like, that's what I love. That was the
thing that made me want to do musicals, want to
do stuff when I was super young, and that hasn't
really gone away even now. Like it's so funny, like
the silliest things. There's like there's always that one person
(27:19):
in the audience that I can that I can see
is maybe like a plus one or that they're maybe
like looking at their phone a lot, and I'm like you,
I'm gonna win you over, and I like it's just
my own little challenge that I give myself and a show.
And if they applaud at the end, and I just like, yeah, yeah,
I can feel that they've I'm like that makes me
so happy.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Nice. Yeah, So for you, I will wrap up on
this last question, Who's the best perform where you've ever
seen that one that inspired you that much where you're like,
all right, this is you know what I want to
do for everybody? Best shait you've ever seen?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Prince. I saw Prince at the O two twice.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
He did like some shows back to back and my
A and R Lucy Francis. I was signed to Gut
Records and Go Homes years ago with Crazy Frog, and
she got me tickets and I'll never forget it. Just
he what everyone left for the break and you could
see people like, you know, like the stairs are super high,
like almost.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Like they're walking into like heaven.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
And he just started to sit doing Purple Rain and
it was like watching people hold trays of beers trying
to run back to their seats. I just love the
confidence of like this show I'm in control of And
I went to see it two nights in a row.
It was a completely different setlist, completely different order, and
I just loved, like the confidence and like the unapologetic
(28:40):
energy of like, this is who I am, and this
is the show you're going to watch, and you're gonna
enjoy it, and I'm going to kill it. And he
did it, and he and his band all high five
of me on the way out, and I was just gassed.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
I was like, eighteen, amazing, Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
What do you want people to take from the album
and they hear it?
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I want them to feel.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
The freedom of feeling whatever there is is that you
want to feel in your life right now, whether that's grief, happiness, joy,
that all of them are there for your taking, and
that it's really up to you to control the relationship
that your heart has with your mind.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Well, I know we've got to wrap up anything you
want to add and ask you out. No, no, I
enjoyed this soul, which we had more time to talk
about writing. But you know, thirty minutes, Gods.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Quick, always it's always so quick. I actually don't believe
it's actually been half an hour.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Cool. Well, thank you so much for the time, and
I can't wait to you the rest of the record.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, seeing you
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