December 17, 2025 • 37 mins
One of the best music books of 2025 was Mark Ronson's superb 'Night People.' The iconic producer/artist/DJ joins Steve Baltin and Sage Bava to discuss his celebrated memoir recounting the beginning of his career as a DJ in New York club culture in the 90s.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, it's Steve Baldton. Welcome back to the Best of
twenty twenty five. And today it does not get much
cooler than Mark Bronson. I mean, the guy who produced
Davey Weinehouse. He's worked with Bruno Marris, who's worked with everyone,
and it's just one of the coolest people in the
world is here talking about his book Night People, all
about pinga DJ in the nineties, about the music that
(00:27):
shaped his life, about living in New York then, and
what it was like revisiting that time for the book.
So I hope you enjoyed us one as much as
we did.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
The last time I saw you was ranted. Do you
at the Chatel a couple of years ago. I was
there with Peter katz Is and a group of people.
He came over with the day that we're talking to
us and we're working on the book. So, you know,
it's nice to see it come to fruition now. I
think at the time said you were kind of taking
a little break from music with the baby on the way. Yes,
well now I have two so weird relations.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I've been working on this book.
I guess I kind of went back and looked when
I was first setting my editors some chapters, and I
noticed it was like March of twenty two.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
So I have been working on this book for quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I took probably a year out when we were doing
Barbie and doing the score and the music for that film.
But really, for the most part, this has been the
most major undertaking I've had of the last of the
last three years. And it's like, of course, there were
times during it, especially towards the end, I was like,
can I curse on this? Or would you rather I
(01:50):
didn't curse? I don't have to, Okay, I was like,
why the hell am I doing? It's like, you know,
at least when I'm working on music, not every so
and I think is great ends up being a hit.
But I can pretty much tell early on like if
it's time to chuck it in the trash, Whereas this book,
I had never done anything like it, so I was like,
what if this isn't any good at this point?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Now I put in tens.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Of thousands of hours, but you know, there was a
reason I had to write it, and now that it's done,
I am I'm really I'm psyched about it, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, it's very cool. But it's so funny you say that. So,
you know, did you ever read Flease memoir?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I have, Yeah, I haven't read it in a while,
but it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, you know, it's funny because he and I have
become friends and if you remember that book ends, you know,
right at the beginning of the Chili Peppers, and he
always planned to write a second one, And I'm like, dude,
are you still going to write a second one? And
He's like, I have no fucking clue. A book is
such a different undertaking. It's like, you know, it's like
making I guess I supposed the equivalent will be a
(02:55):
box set.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I don't know, because I don't know if anyone ever
makes a box set. A box set, it's usually like
a retrospective of your career, right, Like my favorite box
set growing up was the Led Zeppelin one, And like,
I doubt that took Jimmy Page more than like forty
hours to just like go in and check it. The
remasters were good, that you know, this is in a
(03:19):
similar way. My book ends in two thousands, so it's
before meeting Amy, it's before Bruno, it's before Gaga, all
these things. That people might genuinely be curious about. Who
knows those people have millions and millions of fans. But yes,
one or two people have since then gone like, oh,
SOEs that mean there's gonna be a book about this thing?
(03:41):
And I was like not for twenty years, Like this
thing just took so much out of me. And I
loved it, and I you know, I reconnected with hundreds
of people, interviewing them to really paint the most vivid
picture of the nineties in the scene, in the club life.
But it just it was all consuming, and yeah, I
(04:03):
don't know if I'd go back into that again.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's interesting you say that I'm gonna, let's say
it take over in one second. But it's funny because
you know, it's funny you say it would be twenty years.
And the reason being is, look, I found we was
talking with so many artists. You really need perspective. So
it's interesting that this is now thirty years out, So
it'd probably take you twenty years to have the understanding
of what the hell happened with Amy and Gaga and
(04:28):
just that era of your career. Right now, probably you
know you still want to have like the distance needed
I I like looking back at this stuff. Things in
the nineties changed so much for you looking at it
now with you know, the perspective of two kids and
being a Grammy winning producer and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I mean the reason and part of the reason I
started writing the book when I did, was because I
started thinking, if I pretty soon these memories are really
going to start evaporating from my brain.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So and also so.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
We have such a digital trail of things that we've done.
Even if you don't keep a diary, you can look
back at your digital calendar from two thousand and three
and that's going to have one hundred prompts for you
to remember stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I had nothing like that back then.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So that's why I did dig so deep for these
a lot of these memories. But yeah, I think that
to have that perspective on it as a grown manning
you know, in this book, it's not just about Djay
in the clouds, it's about you know, my life shot
that time, and there's addiction and compulsion and things.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Like that that.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yes, I wouldn't have had that perspective on until really recently.
But yeah, I just just how much this just took
over my life.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I don't know if i'd be ready to do that again.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Yeah, it's amazing how much memory music holds. And I
imagine looking back on the music that you were making
and DJing during that time revitalize some memories. And I
wanted to ask a similar question about how your lens
now really put the perspective into some of the experiences
(06:11):
that you had. I'm really excited to read the book.
You are one of my favorite producers of all time.
So it's timeless music too. I think when when we
make really soul full timeless music, it's really a gateway
into memory and soul. So looking back on the music
that you were making, did it really did you remember
(06:33):
these things that had you kind of, you know, pushed
back into different corners of your mind?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah, well, I definitely.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Luckily, music is one of the greatest sort of broaders
of memory, right, so.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
If there was.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I kept making these playlists from each year because the
book is really just the nineties. So I may play
this for each year for the nineties, and I would
hear a bus s Rhymes song like put your hands
where my eyes could see, and suddenly it'd be like,
oh my god, and I could smell the inside of
this sweaty club on sixteenth Street called Rebar, because I
remember when you played that song, how the walls were
(07:12):
nearly come in. So and you know, all sorts of
art spurs memory, but I think that music is a
bit different because it actually do you feel it in
your body, like it vibrates you. So I even think that,
you know, it's even more it's almost more helpful and
conjuring memories. So I definitely music really helped with that
(07:36):
for sure, when.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
You were finding the vinyl that you know you would
put together. What was the the through line with getting
you into your producer brain? Can you talk a little
bit more about I don't know how that really influenced
what you did in the studio, how the what you've
(08:01):
gravitated towards. I mean, you're so eclectic in your musical understanding,
but those early kind of memories of like what was
your gateway into.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I mean, you know, when I started off, the book
starts because each chapter is a different nightclub, and I
use that as a way to at least keep it whatever,
keep shit organized, even if it was just for me.
So and it's chronological, so the book kind of opens
with these big clubs like Limelight and these raves like Nasa,
(08:35):
where I was going when I was sixteen, but also
playing in high school bands. So I was really into
sort of living color and like early red hot Chili
peppers in these bands with my band that we played
music like that. And then I heard.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
A few hip.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Hop records like this album by Pete Rock and sel Smooth,
and I just fell so much in love with it
that I was like basically put my guitar down.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I was like, I want to go do this like now.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And I didn't know how to rap, I didn't know
how to make beats, so djang was that was the
way that I could get into this world. But so
I really like went from somebody who made music to
ben Djang just took over my life for like four
or five years. I was still experimenting with music and
making music through the nineties, but for the most part
(09:24):
I was I was djaying so much. And I think
when you're like in clubs listening to the music of
like Q Tip and then Neptunes and Timblin every night
till five in the morning, to then think that you're
going to wake up the next morning, far up your
drum machine and make something original. It's also complicated, you're
so influenced by these other sounds. But in the late
(09:44):
nineties I kind of set myself apart because I started
playing ac DC and led Zeppelin and Jane's Addiction and
things in the hip hop clubs that nobody was playing.
And one night this guy came up to me I
was DJing.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
He was this really cool guy he's.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No longer with us, named Dominic Chreaneer, who had a
label with DiAngelo, and this new artist called Nika Costa,
and he said he's had this crazy rasp when he
spoke to Yoh, I got this girl, this white girl,
and I don't know what a record is supposed to
sound like, but it's supposed to sound like one of
your DJ sets ac DC, Biggie EPMD Shaka Khan. So
(10:22):
I was like, all right, bring it to my crib,
you know. And that's really how I got my production break.
I mean, over the course of two years, Nika and Justin,
her husband, and I worked on this album. But that
was what set me up. So in some ways, indirectly
and directly, the way that I dj' and the way
(10:43):
that I thought about putting music together is a DJ shape,
my production curer and also got me my first gig.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's funny. I love Nica. I remember interviewing her for
that first record on Virgin.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I've won her for a long time. Very very
very cool woman. You know. It's so interesting too because
you talk about music prodding memories. But what's interesting the
memories change because the way you hear the music changes.
Your experiences are different. There's no question. It's like, you know,
if you look at Jony doing both sides now as
a twenty two year old versus the way she did
(11:18):
it at the Gorge or New Quote BookFest, it's a
completely fucking different song because here's a woman who's now
eighty who nearly died. So for you listening and it's like,
you know, you're talking about Gangstar. I loved Guru love Gangstar.
You know, of course you remember him now he's not here,
so you hear it differently. For you, what was some
of the music that really changed the most and were
the songs that you were surprised like that you liked
(11:40):
at the time, but realize now they just take on
different meaning because the other thing of course I start.
I was just saying, I used to host a podcast
on political songs. Right, and you're six years old, you
hear living in the city or what's going on. You're like,
this sounds amazing. You have no idea what it's about.
Then you get to an adult and you realize how
serious it is. So there are probably a lot of
songs with that time that now you can look back
(12:01):
on and realize, Okay, this was much different than I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, I think that I was always aware of the political,
the heavy you know, political message of a lot of
hip hop, Like that was the thing when I, you know,
I discovered hip hop.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I fell in love with Public Enemy.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And I even write a little bit in the in
the book about having this like conflictedness, like growing up
in this sort of traditional Jewish background and then and
welcome to the Terodome, you know, Chuck Dee says, apologies
made to whoever pleases. Still they got me, like Jesus,
you know, like okay, like learning some of that the
(12:38):
you know this you call it antisemitic, whatever you want
to call it. There was a thread through some of
the more you know, far Khan influence hip.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Hop that I still fucking love because I love the beats.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
And I couldn't stop listening to it, and I wanted
to play that music.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
You know, this is one.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Song maybe in the catalog of five hundred and then
I was also aware that kid coming from from a
privilege up bringing on the Upper West Side and whatever, like,
I wasn't ever going to fully get all of what
hip hop had to offer because that message was speaking
to someone's struggle that was not me, and I would
(13:14):
never fully be able to identify it with it.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
But I still loved.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The music and I still played it, and I was
accepted in this scene. I think that the way some
of the music's changed now is really remarkable, because part
of what's happened in the wake of finishing the book
is I've just gone back to playing vinyl again, like
I haven't played vinyl in twenty years. And you know,
at the end of the book, I talk a little
bit about the difference between playing digitally and all these things,
(13:41):
and why I was such a better DJ in the
nineties because I would spend hours on the floor of
my apartment putting together my step for the night, because
I couldn't just rock.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Up to the club with the USB or a laptop.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
With ten thousand songs on it, you really had to
think about what you were bringing. And I didn't have
kid capri like like how he had eight dudes to
carry as records of the club. It was just me
and a friend. So I think about how much I
was more of a thoughtful DJ back then. So now
going to the club and with records playing, playing for
(14:13):
kids that were not alive when some of these songs
came out, and watching like a really great young DJ
like Cosmo play this music from the same era with
her own slant on it. It's amazing to see, Yeah,
what songs have held up, what songs carry the message?
What songs are even more meaningful maybe now than they
were then.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
But that's the beauty of music.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And it sounds such a cheesy thing to say, but
it's like to play a song like ninety three till
Infinity by Souls of Mischief and still to see like
it emotionally overtake a crowd of people even now. It's
just like, but.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It's part of the joy of why I do it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's interesting as well. I mean, for you talk
about the fact then you know, I mean The other
thing that I love about writing, right, writing teaches you
things that you have no idea you're thinking about. Most
good writing is subconscious well stage, and I talk about
this with songwriters all the time. You know, things will
come out and like Nick Cave said, a year and
a half later, he'll be on stage and be like, oh,
(15:18):
that's what that was about. So I imagine in writing this book,
there was a ton of stuff that you realized that
you hadn't thought about in a very long time.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, And you know, I didn't really set out to
write a very personal book. I thought I'm going to
write out DJs and clubs. And of course the book's
called night People, and it touches on why we all
go out, and for some people it's to get laid.
Some people love to dance, some people just want to
commune with people, and some people are just a little
(16:02):
cracked and would rather live their life at night. And
like I had all of those things, so I realized,
you know, at one point, my wife said to me
at the end when she read the book, like, oh,
it's it's it's funny because like there was obviously some
reason that you wrote this very personal, exposing book because
I had to go into my own you know, demons
(16:23):
and addictions and things.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Like that to.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Paint the whole story. It's it's not it's not the
majority of the book, but it had to.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Be in there.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So I think that, yeah, it was very exposing, you know,
as a forty I mean, however, I was forty six
when I started, forty nine when I finished it, as
somebody who's you know, still obviously figuring it out, but
been through a couple of years of therapy and recognizes
(16:52):
some of those compulsions, Like I had to put that
through that lens or it would have been a little
boring or not true. And I think that, you know,
I knew nothing about writing. So when I started writing
the book, I went into the bookstore and I bought
Stephen King's On Writing and Mary Carr's The Art of Memoir,
and I wrote on little note cards the main points
(17:14):
I took away from those books. For Stephen King, it
was a lot of like the focus and the austere
sort of like, you know, five hours a day locked
in a basement, you.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Got to fucking write right right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And Mary Carr was just like one of the things
that I loved. She says, when you're writing the book,
be so self aware, like what was it about myself
that people didn't like about me? Like, kept being so
honest about those things at all times that I did that,
I tried to just yeah, just kind of I don't know,
(17:47):
try and keep that all in mind.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, it's funny, and then let's say check over again
one second after this, But I'm curious, I mean, did
you write the book in the linear fashion? Like was
it written chronologically? Because a lot of times I know
it's not. And the reason I ask is because again,
literally it's funny. I don't know if that if it
was intentional, but a good writing will form itself and
will take you in places you have no idea you're going.
But the book literally starts with you as a kid
(18:11):
and your friendship with Sean Lennon and you know, your
mom and the relationship. But it's really interesting because Perry
Ferrell and I once had a conversation about how he
was three years old and you know, he's trying to
oppress his older siblings so they would let him DJA
at parties and he's like, yeah, that's probably where laal
Pelouza was formed from. So it's funny looking at the
parties your parents had. Was that where this need to
(18:32):
like DJ and be the center of attention kind of
came from a little bit like it was just an
inherent in you and any young age pleasing people.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
It's probably some of that, definitely, Like you know, I
opened the book with the thing of putting on a
song at my mom and stepdad's wedding. I was ten
years old, and you know, I'd had a bit of
a troubled traumatic childhood in my early years year at
a five, and I do remember, like what it really
is of my earliest really clear memories of ever having
(19:04):
done something right, playing this song at the wedding and
then watching like it changed, like the entire vibe of
outside of it was happening, and my mom and my
stepdad having this dance to Wonderful Tonight.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
By Eric Clapton.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But I think what I started to do when I
did the book is I knew there would have to
be loosely based in these chronological chapters, just as a structure.
And I kept these four giant storyboards in my studio
at all times. A lot of them were like emotional drivers,
some of them were like really vague things like why
(19:40):
why DJs didn't talk on the mic back then? They're
sort of irregardless of any era or club. So I
would each time I was on a specific chapter, I'd
make a storyboard for that chapter and start to pull
from this thing, what could I talk about not only
just literally what's going on chronologically at the club Rock Sya,
but I could actually include this thing about like why
(20:02):
drunk dj is are a fucking thing and blah blah
blah blah blah. And I would start to like put
them all on each board until I was done with
all the points that I wanted to address, and so
I had to keep it organizing, you know, in each
for each chapter, I would have a list of maybe
twenty people that I knew I needed to interview. What
was very sad is is the book started to go on.
Actually a couple of good friends and DJs passed away
(20:24):
when I was like, oh, I'll call them in three weeks.
I know I'll get to that. So it was all
a lot of things going on at the same time.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
I love to know more about the tactile relationship with
Vinyl and how that kind of duality of really needing
to take your time, be slow with putting your sets together,
but then like the insane energy that you were giving
that too. To me, You've always had this really fascinating
slowness that I love to, you know, watch and I
(20:57):
love to hear you speak on about music anything. How
has How did that kind of duality of the the
tactileness of music and just kind of chaos influence you know,
how you approach music and life and all the things.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, that's that's true. Actually I never really thought about it,
because it's true. There's like all this very thoughtful like
preparation going to putting other records, and the thing that
I loved about putting the records and the set together
before the gig, which I've sort of rediscovered, like as
I'm playing vinyls, you're almost having this like psychic connection
with the crowd before you've even met them. You're thinking
(21:39):
about them, You're picturing a dance floor. Maybe it's not
that fucking obviously the same people, but there's this idea
of like, oh, I'm going to play Chaka Khan and
then I know that I'm going to take them to
New Shoes and then into day last soul and then
you get to the club and like you said, it's
just this. You know, you start the night slow, but
when you hit the peak, you're just in this chaotic
(22:00):
vinyl ballet, throwing records every which way. And it is
this balance of both.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
But I think you need both.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
And I was a very specific kind of DJ, Like
I love that, like throwing records on and off to
hype the crowd and keep like building them to this
almost orgasmic level of the thing, which is very different
from you know, some of the incredible house and techno
DJs are you know, really elegant blends and three turntables
(22:29):
and like, you know, this kind of like the way
that music is mixed in that genre. I just wanted
to like hit him, hit them, hit him, which was
probably part of my like greedy compulsion of like needing
this validation as well. But yeah, all those things went
into it. And then at the end of the night,
then you're sort of playing Stevie Wonder and whoever, and
(22:50):
you're letting the songs play and breathe again. But the
peak of the night was always this mad, yeah, this
mad sort of yeah, chaotic vinyl ballet.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Looking back on those spaces, what are some of the musical, cultural,
or relational aspects that you feel especially no nostalgic for that.
You're like, we should bring it back.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I don't know if we'll ever be able to
bring it back, because this was before so many things,
was before smartphones, so people were like, were very present
in the club and listen, I'm as guilty of it.
I'm looking at my phone during the club or whatever
it is, like seeing a text message came through, or what's.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Going on down the street.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
There was no bottle service back then, which is obviously
you know, going on in all the great clubs in
Brooklyn and Queens there's no bottle service. But bottle service
really decimated New York in a way because these banquettes
and booths where club owners can make a lot of
money charging for bottles, started to become more and more
and more and populate the club till the dance floor
(23:53):
just got the size of a jacuzzi. So there was
all these things going on, and then.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, and then New.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
York just became too expensive and you know, people, it's cool,
young people you'd want in the club kind of couldn't
afford to live in New York City.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
So there's a lot of reasons that I don't think
it's going back. It doesn't mean it's not just as
exciting in different places. But the venues that were some
of my favorites were. It was a club called New
Music Cafe on Canal and Shine on Canal and.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
West Broadway Storry, which.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Then became Shine and now I think it's like an
oyster bar, even though it was very vipn over the
top and probably a little precocious. There was a club
called Life, which is now La Place m Rouge, which
was a basement down on Bleaker and that was where
like jay Z and Prince and Mariah Carey and like
all these people came every fucking Friday night.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And it was such a scene.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It was all these people packed into this crowded, sweaty basement.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It's I would just one last question. You have such
an eclectic love of music. I'm curious right now what
you're listening to, what you're really into, if you've discovered
a different thing, or your refall in love.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
With Yeah, I well, when i'm DJing, I'm actually playing
a lot of music from the nineties and two thousands,
which sort of is both a little backwards looking, but
I just I'm playing vinyl, and that's obviously where my
vinyl collection ends. About I swear, like most of the
(25:36):
music now that we listened to in the house, you know,
our two and a half year old daughter what she's
listening to, So that could be anything from Pink Pony
Club to you know, she loves Jooni Mitchell, she loves
Scenario by Tribe called Quest. She's just like discovered this
song on and.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
J by Jiao Gilberto like.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But honestly, whatever's playing in the house really at this
moment is what she wants to be listening to. But
I'm always looking for discovering new music, and you know,
it's still excites me to look for.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
New ship, all right, So then I have to ask
because I'm the same way because I've interviewed every fucking
person who ever lived, and I still get excited when
I hear something that blows me away. So it was
the last thing you heard that just blew your mind?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Fuck? I'm always so bad underfire on these kind of questions,
But fuck, I don't know, I'm like, there there was
a bunch of shit. I mean, I really, I mean,
I actually really like the wet Leg record. I like
(26:51):
this artist named emery E m o r I uh,
artist's named Sailor with two rs. It has this record
that I really did called Pooky's Requiem Russowski.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, maybe that's the one.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
There's a track called Malibu by Russowski r Usowsky.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's super interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Nice have to check it out. Yeah, there's a ton
of good music this year, a lot of stuff I
really love, but you know, it's interesting. One thing I
want to come on too. It's funny because we talk
in the beginning about being friends with Sean, you know,
in your mom's relationship obviously with making like you know,
so you were around all that stuff. What I found is,
even you know, having interviewed everybody from James Brown to B. B. King,
(27:54):
there's still people you get excited about. So is there
still that level of like maybe not so much now,
but when you first got into the DJ scene, you
grew up listening to all this music that you really loved,
and then all these people became your peers and your friends,
And you know, it's funny. I just interviewed Q Tip,
who does not depress at all, but he agreed to
do a story I was doing for the Only Times
on Culture and I love supreme and what a cool dude.
(28:16):
He's like, I will talk about music all day. Don't
ask me about my own stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's like,
I would love to talk about this, And like, is
there that still sense of wonder of like you're sitting
there talking to music with these people who are your heroes?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Always still?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I mean listen, I still sometimes I be talking to
c Tip about a song and just you know, we've
been friends for so long now, but it's it's impossible
not to think, like how much his his musical tastes
and output has shaped my life. And they're like, you know,
fucking I once exchange an email with Donald Fagan, like
(28:53):
that was probably the greatest thrill of my one A
good that's one of my old time I'm greatest heroes.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
You know, there's these people, and these people have immeasurably
shaped my life and like changed the molecules in my body.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
So yes, it totally freaks me up.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I now I have to ask one more question of this,
but I'm curious because I'm a total cely Dan fanatic.
What's the favorite cely Dan song?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Oh, man, that changes just like all the time. But
I mean sometimes even though it's it's more emblematic of
the first record, like any Major Dude is just like
that one just always gets me choked out because I
think anybody who's just had a friend or lost a
(29:47):
friend to addiction, that one is a really big one.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I think.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Honestly, Asia sometimes like just the harmonic sophistication of that
because because there's all the there's all the hits, and
there's Black Cown, there's Peg, and there's Ricky and there's things,
and I just those will always have a huge hold
over me. But you know, you hear them so much
just you know, think Asia, any major Dude, and there's
(30:16):
not one that I don't love, So it's hard to say.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, I got a think for Doctor Wu Man, that
song just blows my mind.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
So the podcast component is it's called in Service Up
and we talked about giving back and I'm sure that's
very different meaning to you now both you know, as
a dad. But it's interesting because you just mentioned the
addiction and it's funny for some reason, you know, similar
to you, like you know, with music, I've interviewed so
many people and I've recently, I've been thinking a lot
(30:48):
about the interview I did with Phillips Seymour Hoffman, who
to me was the greatest actor of his generation. Brilliant
and you know, we lost to an overdose. And there's
probably an element I've talked to so many people who
have gone through addiction about there's like, you know, definitely
a feeling of like there but for the grace of God.
You know, it's very lucky to come out of it
because so many people don't. And I, like you have
(31:09):
lost so many musician friends to it. So for you
talk about the importance of giving back and you know
what that means to you and how you do that.
And just as a musician, by the way, it's funny
just as a DJ, like you say, just giving people
a night out, whether they're looking to dance or communal
or get laid or do all three of the above.
You know, that's that's part of service as well, because
(31:30):
you're giving people an escape.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yeah. Sorry, is it good question or right?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah? The question is what does it mean to you
to give back and how do you do it?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, I don't consider music may be getting to make
music as a charitable like that's me giving back. I
know that there's people who who will come up to
me and tell me that back to Black got them
through a really hard time in their life, or even
(32:01):
like a song is just like relentlessly optimistic, as Uptown Funk.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Does that for people.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
It would be really ridiculous to me to say, like
I do it as a charitable service. I mean, I
punched myself for saying that, But I do think that
what I'm constantly aware of how fucking lucky I am
is to do the thing that brings me the most
joy and.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Make a living off it and then and that's.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Why I feel like more like the world has been
charitable to me. I mean, I give back in other ways.
I give back to charities and doing work for organizations
and things that need it. But I don't really see
as music as a me making music as an altruistic thing.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Cool. Well, we've only got a couple minute stuff on zoom.
Is there anything that you want to add me and
ask about? I guess my last question would just be,
you know, it's funny. What did you take away from
writing the book? Is again similar to making out when
you get lost in something you don't even know what
the hell it's about. And then it's only when you
look at the end that you kind of take away
the lessons or meaning. So when you read it back
as a finished work, you know, was there anything that
(33:12):
you kind of took away from it that kind of
surprised you.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I think that I probably have a little bit more
hindsight in five or ten years, because it's still so
fresh and I've spent three years writing and it's only
been done for three months.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
But I think that.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
When I look at it back at it, what I
feel the most is this celebration of all these like
unsung characters who are just incredible, like not superstars, but
people who just made New York move at the time
and gave me opportunity to DJ and gave me my shot.
(33:51):
And then I think it celebrates a lot of people
who died and hopefully gives a bit of a snapshot
of a time and that's not very documented, like the
nineties in this little sliver of New York downtown night life.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
And hopefully my daughters won't like read it and be like,
I think it's fucking cringe or whatever the fuck they
were they'll be using in ten fifteen years from now
and they're old enough to read it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Of course they will. That's part of being a parent.
Patty is the oldest woman who ever lived, and she's like,
when I'm home, just mom doing laundry.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Yeah, no, totally cool.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Anything you want to add that we didn't ask you about.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
No, that's great.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
I love to ask one more. That's okay.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
The in service of question I love and hate because
you know, it's such an on the spot thing, but
I think musicians and you are so in service of
the music, and to me, that's in service of humanity.
And like getting to look back with you and read
this book. I'm so excited to tap more into what
(34:59):
that means means, you know, the slowness of really understanding
the music, Like I love music of the past. I
love how you pay homage to where we came from.
This there's this nostalgia, this timeless entity in everything you create.
So the question is now in twenty twenty five, like
(35:19):
what are you excited about with music? And what are
you trepidacious of with where we're going. I mean, I
hate to bring AI in, but I'm very I'm very
interested to hear what you're feeling now in music, Well.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
I think.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
AI is, like, yes, of course, it's scary how well
AI can make something I guess good out of something
that's not talented, maybe somebody who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Make you sound like sort of nefarious, but you know,
in the same way auto tune, which we really help
people who can't really sing or don't have great voices
to make music that we enjoy. So like it's good
to remember it in those terms a little bit. I
have like really mixed feelings about AI, Like I hear
(36:15):
a lot of it and it sounds like garbage, and
it sounds very cold and it doesn't have human soul
in it, but like the technology is incredible.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Like there will be a point at.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Some time when I will fail the Pepsi challenge and
somebody will say, like which one of these is real?
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Which isn't?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But what's exciting about music is there's just always somebody
taking something, even if it's older, and putting it through
a new, fresh lens. And you know, I think of
the things I was influenced by in the nineties and
two thousands, of the things I loved or some of
the music that I was making,
Hey, it's Steve Baldton. Welcome back to the Best of
twenty twenty five. And today it does not get much
cooler than Mark Bronson. I mean, the guy who produced
Davey Weinehouse. He's worked with Bruno Marris, who's worked with everyone,
and it's just one of the coolest people in the
world is here talking about his book Night People, all
about pinga DJ in the nineties, about the music that
(00:27):
shaped his life, about living in New York then, and
what it was like revisiting that time for the book.
So I hope you enjoyed us one as much as
we did.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
The last time I saw you was ranted. Do you
at the Chatel a couple of years ago. I was
there with Peter katz Is and a group of people.
He came over with the day that we're talking to
us and we're working on the book. So, you know,
it's nice to see it come to fruition now. I
think at the time said you were kind of taking
a little break from music with the baby on the way. Yes,
well now I have two so weird relations.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I've been working on this book.
I guess I kind of went back and looked when
I was first setting my editors some chapters, and I
noticed it was like March of twenty two.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
So I have been working on this book for quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I took probably a year out when we were doing
Barbie and doing the score and the music for that film.
But really, for the most part, this has been the
most major undertaking I've had of the last of the
last three years. And it's like, of course, there were
times during it, especially towards the end, I was like,
can I curse on this? Or would you rather I
(01:50):
didn't curse? I don't have to, Okay, I was like,
why the hell am I doing? It's like, you know,
at least when I'm working on music, not every so
and I think is great ends up being a hit.
But I can pretty much tell early on like if
it's time to chuck it in the trash, Whereas this book,
I had never done anything like it, so I was like,
what if this isn't any good at this point?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Now I put in tens.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Of thousands of hours, but you know, there was a
reason I had to write it, and now that it's done,
I am I'm really I'm psyched about it, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, it's very cool. But it's so funny you say that. So,
you know, did you ever read Flease memoir?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I have, Yeah, I haven't read it in a while,
but it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, you know, it's funny because he and I have
become friends and if you remember that book ends, you know,
right at the beginning of the Chili Peppers, and he
always planned to write a second one, And I'm like, dude,
are you still going to write a second one? And
He's like, I have no fucking clue. A book is
such a different undertaking. It's like, you know, it's like
making I guess I supposed the equivalent will be a
(02:55):
box set.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I don't know, because I don't know if anyone ever
makes a box set. A box set, it's usually like
a retrospective of your career, right, Like my favorite box
set growing up was the Led Zeppelin one, And like,
I doubt that took Jimmy Page more than like forty
hours to just like go in and check it. The
remasters were good, that you know, this is in a
(03:19):
similar way. My book ends in two thousands, so it's
before meeting Amy, it's before Bruno, it's before Gaga, all
these things. That people might genuinely be curious about. Who
knows those people have millions and millions of fans. But yes,
one or two people have since then gone like, oh,
SOEs that mean there's gonna be a book about this thing?
(03:41):
And I was like not for twenty years, Like this
thing just took so much out of me. And I
loved it, and I you know, I reconnected with hundreds
of people, interviewing them to really paint the most vivid
picture of the nineties in the scene, in the club life.
But it just it was all consuming, and yeah, I
(04:03):
don't know if I'd go back into that again.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's interesting you say that I'm gonna, let's say
it take over in one second. But it's funny because
you know, it's funny you say it would be twenty years.
And the reason being is, look, I found we was
talking with so many artists. You really need perspective. So
it's interesting that this is now thirty years out, So
it'd probably take you twenty years to have the understanding
of what the hell happened with Amy and Gaga and
(04:28):
just that era of your career. Right now, probably you
know you still want to have like the distance needed
I I like looking back at this stuff. Things in
the nineties changed so much for you looking at it
now with you know, the perspective of two kids and
being a Grammy winning producer and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I mean the reason and part of the reason I
started writing the book when I did, was because I
started thinking, if I pretty soon these memories are really
going to start evaporating from my brain.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So and also so.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
We have such a digital trail of things that we've done.
Even if you don't keep a diary, you can look
back at your digital calendar from two thousand and three
and that's going to have one hundred prompts for you
to remember stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I had nothing like that back then.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So that's why I did dig so deep for these
a lot of these memories. But yeah, I think that
to have that perspective on it as a grown manning
you know, in this book, it's not just about Djay
in the clouds, it's about you know, my life shot
that time, and there's addiction and compulsion and things.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Like that that.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yes, I wouldn't have had that perspective on until really recently.
But yeah, I just just how much this just took
over my life.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I don't know if i'd be ready to do that again.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Yeah, it's amazing how much memory music holds. And I
imagine looking back on the music that you were making
and DJing during that time revitalize some memories. And I
wanted to ask a similar question about how your lens
now really put the perspective into some of the experiences
(06:11):
that you had. I'm really excited to read the book.
You are one of my favorite producers of all time.
So it's timeless music too. I think when when we
make really soul full timeless music, it's really a gateway
into memory and soul. So looking back on the music
that you were making, did it really did you remember
(06:33):
these things that had you kind of, you know, pushed
back into different corners of your mind?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah, well, I definitely.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Luckily, music is one of the greatest sort of broaders
of memory, right, so.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
If there was.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I kept making these playlists from each year because the
book is really just the nineties. So I may play
this for each year for the nineties, and I would
hear a bus s Rhymes song like put your hands
where my eyes could see, and suddenly it'd be like,
oh my god, and I could smell the inside of
this sweaty club on sixteenth Street called Rebar, because I
remember when you played that song, how the walls were
(07:12):
nearly come in. So and you know, all sorts of
art spurs memory, but I think that music is a
bit different because it actually do you feel it in
your body, like it vibrates you. So I even think that,
you know, it's even more it's almost more helpful and
conjuring memories. So I definitely music really helped with that
(07:36):
for sure, when.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
You were finding the vinyl that you know you would
put together. What was the the through line with getting
you into your producer brain? Can you talk a little
bit more about I don't know how that really influenced
what you did in the studio, how the what you've
(08:01):
gravitated towards. I mean, you're so eclectic in your musical understanding,
but those early kind of memories of like what was
your gateway into.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I mean, you know, when I started off, the book
starts because each chapter is a different nightclub, and I
use that as a way to at least keep it whatever,
keep shit organized, even if it was just for me.
So and it's chronological, so the book kind of opens
with these big clubs like Limelight and these raves like Nasa,
(08:35):
where I was going when I was sixteen, but also
playing in high school bands. So I was really into
sort of living color and like early red hot Chili
peppers in these bands with my band that we played
music like that. And then I heard.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
A few hip.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Hop records like this album by Pete Rock and sel Smooth,
and I just fell so much in love with it
that I was like basically put my guitar down.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I was like, I want to go do this like now.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And I didn't know how to rap, I didn't know
how to make beats, so djang was that was the
way that I could get into this world. But so
I really like went from somebody who made music to
ben Djang just took over my life for like four
or five years. I was still experimenting with music and
making music through the nineties, but for the most part
(09:24):
I was I was djaying so much. And I think
when you're like in clubs listening to the music of
like Q Tip and then Neptunes and Timblin every night
till five in the morning, to then think that you're
going to wake up the next morning, far up your
drum machine and make something original. It's also complicated, you're
so influenced by these other sounds. But in the late
(09:44):
nineties I kind of set myself apart because I started
playing ac DC and led Zeppelin and Jane's Addiction and
things in the hip hop clubs that nobody was playing.
And one night this guy came up to me I
was DJing.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
He was this really cool guy he's.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No longer with us, named Dominic Chreaneer, who had a
label with DiAngelo, and this new artist called Nika Costa,
and he said he's had this crazy rasp when he
spoke to Yoh, I got this girl, this white girl,
and I don't know what a record is supposed to
sound like, but it's supposed to sound like one of
your DJ sets ac DC, Biggie EPMD Shaka Khan. So
(10:22):
I was like, all right, bring it to my crib,
you know. And that's really how I got my production break.
I mean, over the course of two years, Nika and Justin,
her husband, and I worked on this album. But that
was what set me up. So in some ways, indirectly
and directly, the way that I dj' and the way
(10:43):
that I thought about putting music together is a DJ shape,
my production curer and also got me my first gig.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's funny. I love Nica. I remember interviewing her for
that first record on Virgin.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I've won her for a long time. Very very
very cool woman. You know. It's so interesting too because
you talk about music prodding memories. But what's interesting the
memories change because the way you hear the music changes.
Your experiences are different. There's no question. It's like, you know,
if you look at Jony doing both sides now as
a twenty two year old versus the way she did
(11:18):
it at the Gorge or New Quote BookFest, it's a
completely fucking different song because here's a woman who's now
eighty who nearly died. So for you listening and it's like,
you know, you're talking about Gangstar. I loved Guru love Gangstar.
You know, of course you remember him now he's not here,
so you hear it differently. For you, what was some
of the music that really changed the most and were
the songs that you were surprised like that you liked
(11:40):
at the time, but realize now they just take on
different meaning because the other thing of course I start.
I was just saying, I used to host a podcast
on political songs. Right, and you're six years old, you
hear living in the city or what's going on. You're like,
this sounds amazing. You have no idea what it's about.
Then you get to an adult and you realize how
serious it is. So there are probably a lot of
songs with that time that now you can look back
(12:01):
on and realize, Okay, this was much different than I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, I think that I was always aware of the political,
the heavy you know, political message of a lot of
hip hop, Like that was the thing when I, you know,
I discovered hip hop.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I fell in love with Public Enemy.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And I even write a little bit in the in
the book about having this like conflictedness, like growing up
in this sort of traditional Jewish background and then and
welcome to the Terodome, you know, Chuck Dee says, apologies
made to whoever pleases. Still they got me, like Jesus,
you know, like okay, like learning some of that the
(12:38):
you know this you call it antisemitic, whatever you want
to call it. There was a thread through some of
the more you know, far Khan influence hip.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Hop that I still fucking love because I love the beats.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
And I couldn't stop listening to it, and I wanted
to play that music.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
You know, this is one.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Song maybe in the catalog of five hundred and then
I was also aware that kid coming from from a
privilege up bringing on the Upper West Side and whatever, like,
I wasn't ever going to fully get all of what
hip hop had to offer because that message was speaking
to someone's struggle that was not me, and I would
(13:14):
never fully be able to identify it with it.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
But I still loved.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The music and I still played it, and I was
accepted in this scene. I think that the way some
of the music's changed now is really remarkable, because part
of what's happened in the wake of finishing the book
is I've just gone back to playing vinyl again, like
I haven't played vinyl in twenty years. And you know,
at the end of the book, I talk a little
bit about the difference between playing digitally and all these things,
(13:41):
and why I was such a better DJ in the
nineties because I would spend hours on the floor of
my apartment putting together my step for the night, because
I couldn't just rock.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Up to the club with the USB or a laptop.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
With ten thousand songs on it, you really had to
think about what you were bringing. And I didn't have
kid capri like like how he had eight dudes to
carry as records of the club. It was just me
and a friend. So I think about how much I
was more of a thoughtful DJ back then. So now
going to the club and with records playing, playing for
(14:13):
kids that were not alive when some of these songs
came out, and watching like a really great young DJ
like Cosmo play this music from the same era with
her own slant on it. It's amazing to see, Yeah,
what songs have held up, what songs carry the message?
What songs are even more meaningful maybe now than they
were then.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
But that's the beauty of music.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And it sounds such a cheesy thing to say, but
it's like to play a song like ninety three till
Infinity by Souls of Mischief and still to see like
it emotionally overtake a crowd of people even now. It's
just like, but.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It's part of the joy of why I do it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's interesting as well. I mean, for you talk
about the fact then you know, I mean The other
thing that I love about writing, right, writing teaches you
things that you have no idea you're thinking about. Most
good writing is subconscious well stage, and I talk about
this with songwriters all the time. You know, things will
come out and like Nick Cave said, a year and
a half later, he'll be on stage and be like, oh,
(15:18):
that's what that was about. So I imagine in writing this book,
there was a ton of stuff that you realized that
you hadn't thought about in a very long time.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, And you know, I didn't really set out to
write a very personal book. I thought I'm going to
write out DJs and clubs. And of course the book's
called night People, and it touches on why we all
go out, and for some people it's to get laid.
Some people love to dance, some people just want to
commune with people, and some people are just a little
(16:02):
cracked and would rather live their life at night. And
like I had all of those things, so I realized,
you know, at one point, my wife said to me
at the end when she read the book, like, oh,
it's it's it's funny because like there was obviously some
reason that you wrote this very personal, exposing book because
I had to go into my own you know, demons
(16:23):
and addictions and things.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Like that to.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Paint the whole story. It's it's not it's not the
majority of the book, but it had to.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Be in there.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
So I think that, yeah, it was very exposing, you know,
as a forty I mean, however, I was forty six
when I started, forty nine when I finished it, as
somebody who's you know, still obviously figuring it out, but
been through a couple of years of therapy and recognizes
(16:52):
some of those compulsions, Like I had to put that
through that lens or it would have been a little
boring or not true. And I think that, you know,
I knew nothing about writing. So when I started writing
the book, I went into the bookstore and I bought
Stephen King's On Writing and Mary Carr's The Art of Memoir,
and I wrote on little note cards the main points
(17:14):
I took away from those books. For Stephen King, it
was a lot of like the focus and the austere
sort of like, you know, five hours a day locked
in a basement, you.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Got to fucking write right right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And Mary Carr was just like one of the things
that I loved. She says, when you're writing the book,
be so self aware, like what was it about myself
that people didn't like about me? Like, kept being so
honest about those things at all times that I did that,
I tried to just yeah, just kind of I don't know,
(17:47):
try and keep that all in mind.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, it's funny, and then let's say check over again
one second after this, But I'm curious, I mean, did
you write the book in the linear fashion? Like was
it written chronologically? Because a lot of times I know
it's not. And the reason I ask is because again,
literally it's funny. I don't know if that if it
was intentional, but a good writing will form itself and
will take you in places you have no idea you're going.
But the book literally starts with you as a kid
(18:11):
and your friendship with Sean Lennon and you know, your
mom and the relationship. But it's really interesting because Perry
Ferrell and I once had a conversation about how he
was three years old and you know, he's trying to
oppress his older siblings so they would let him DJA
at parties and he's like, yeah, that's probably where laal
Pelouza was formed from. So it's funny looking at the
parties your parents had. Was that where this need to
(18:32):
like DJ and be the center of attention kind of
came from a little bit like it was just an
inherent in you and any young age pleasing people.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
It's probably some of that, definitely, Like you know, I
opened the book with the thing of putting on a
song at my mom and stepdad's wedding. I was ten
years old, and you know, I'd had a bit of
a troubled traumatic childhood in my early years year at
a five, and I do remember, like what it really
is of my earliest really clear memories of ever having
(19:04):
done something right, playing this song at the wedding and
then watching like it changed, like the entire vibe of
outside of it was happening, and my mom and my
stepdad having this dance to Wonderful Tonight.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
By Eric Clapton.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But I think what I started to do when I
did the book is I knew there would have to
be loosely based in these chronological chapters, just as a structure.
And I kept these four giant storyboards in my studio
at all times. A lot of them were like emotional drivers,
some of them were like really vague things like why
(19:40):
why DJs didn't talk on the mic back then? They're
sort of irregardless of any era or club. So I
would each time I was on a specific chapter, I'd
make a storyboard for that chapter and start to pull
from this thing, what could I talk about not only
just literally what's going on chronologically at the club Rock Sya,
but I could actually include this thing about like why
(20:02):
drunk dj is are a fucking thing and blah blah
blah blah blah. And I would start to like put
them all on each board until I was done with
all the points that I wanted to address, and so
I had to keep it organizing, you know, in each
for each chapter, I would have a list of maybe
twenty people that I knew I needed to interview. What
was very sad is is the book started to go on.
Actually a couple of good friends and DJs passed away
(20:24):
when I was like, oh, I'll call them in three weeks.
I know I'll get to that. So it was all
a lot of things going on at the same time.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
I love to know more about the tactile relationship with
Vinyl and how that kind of duality of really needing
to take your time, be slow with putting your sets together,
but then like the insane energy that you were giving
that too. To me, You've always had this really fascinating
slowness that I love to, you know, watch and I
(20:57):
love to hear you speak on about music anything. How
has How did that kind of duality of the the
tactileness of music and just kind of chaos influence you know,
how you approach music and life and all the things.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, that's that's true. Actually I never really thought about it,
because it's true. There's like all this very thoughtful like
preparation going to putting other records, and the thing that
I loved about putting the records and the set together
before the gig, which I've sort of rediscovered, like as
I'm playing vinyls, you're almost having this like psychic connection
with the crowd before you've even met them. You're thinking
(21:39):
about them, You're picturing a dance floor. Maybe it's not
that fucking obviously the same people, but there's this idea
of like, oh, I'm going to play Chaka Khan and
then I know that I'm going to take them to
New Shoes and then into day last soul and then
you get to the club and like you said, it's
just this. You know, you start the night slow, but
when you hit the peak, you're just in this chaotic
(22:00):
vinyl ballet, throwing records every which way. And it is
this balance of both.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
But I think you need both.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
And I was a very specific kind of DJ, Like
I love that, like throwing records on and off to
hype the crowd and keep like building them to this
almost orgasmic level of the thing, which is very different
from you know, some of the incredible house and techno
DJs are you know, really elegant blends and three turntables
(22:29):
and like, you know, this kind of like the way
that music is mixed in that genre. I just wanted
to like hit him, hit them, hit him, which was
probably part of my like greedy compulsion of like needing
this validation as well. But yeah, all those things went
into it. And then at the end of the night,
then you're sort of playing Stevie Wonder and whoever, and
(22:50):
you're letting the songs play and breathe again. But the
peak of the night was always this mad, yeah, this
mad sort of yeah, chaotic vinyl ballet.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Looking back on those spaces, what are some of the musical, cultural,
or relational aspects that you feel especially no nostalgic for that.
You're like, we should bring it back.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I don't know if we'll ever be able to
bring it back, because this was before so many things,
was before smartphones, so people were like, were very present
in the club and listen, I'm as guilty of it.
I'm looking at my phone during the club or whatever
it is, like seeing a text message came through, or what's.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Going on down the street.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
There was no bottle service back then, which is obviously
you know, going on in all the great clubs in
Brooklyn and Queens there's no bottle service. But bottle service
really decimated New York in a way because these banquettes
and booths where club owners can make a lot of
money charging for bottles, started to become more and more
and more and populate the club till the dance floor
(23:53):
just got the size of a jacuzzi. So there was
all these things going on, and then.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, and then New.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
York just became too expensive and you know, people, it's cool,
young people you'd want in the club kind of couldn't
afford to live in New York City.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
So there's a lot of reasons that I don't think
it's going back. It doesn't mean it's not just as
exciting in different places. But the venues that were some
of my favorites were. It was a club called New
Music Cafe on Canal and Shine on Canal and.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
West Broadway Storry, which.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Then became Shine and now I think it's like an
oyster bar, even though it was very vipn over the
top and probably a little precocious. There was a club
called Life, which is now La Place m Rouge, which
was a basement down on Bleaker and that was where
like jay Z and Prince and Mariah Carey and like
all these people came every fucking Friday night.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And it was such a scene.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It was all these people packed into this crowded, sweaty basement.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It's I would just one last question. You have such
an eclectic love of music. I'm curious right now what
you're listening to, what you're really into, if you've discovered
a different thing, or your refall in love.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
With Yeah, I well, when i'm DJing, I'm actually playing
a lot of music from the nineties and two thousands,
which sort of is both a little backwards looking, but
I just I'm playing vinyl, and that's obviously where my
vinyl collection ends. About I swear, like most of the
(25:36):
music now that we listened to in the house, you know,
our two and a half year old daughter what she's
listening to, So that could be anything from Pink Pony
Club to you know, she loves Jooni Mitchell, she loves
Scenario by Tribe called Quest. She's just like discovered this
song on and.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
J by Jiao Gilberto like.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But honestly, whatever's playing in the house really at this
moment is what she wants to be listening to. But
I'm always looking for discovering new music, and you know,
it's still excites me to look for.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
New ship, all right, So then I have to ask
because I'm the same way because I've interviewed every fucking
person who ever lived, and I still get excited when
I hear something that blows me away. So it was
the last thing you heard that just blew your mind?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Fuck? I'm always so bad underfire on these kind of questions,
But fuck, I don't know, I'm like, there there was
a bunch of shit. I mean, I really, I mean,
I actually really like the wet Leg record. I like
(26:51):
this artist named emery E m o r I uh,
artist's named Sailor with two rs. It has this record
that I really did called Pooky's Requiem Russowski.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, maybe that's the one.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
There's a track called Malibu by Russowski r Usowsky.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's super interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Nice have to check it out. Yeah, there's a ton
of good music this year, a lot of stuff I
really love, but you know, it's interesting. One thing I
want to come on too. It's funny because we talk
in the beginning about being friends with Sean, you know,
in your mom's relationship obviously with making like you know,
so you were around all that stuff. What I found is,
even you know, having interviewed everybody from James Brown to B. B. King,
(27:54):
there's still people you get excited about. So is there
still that level of like maybe not so much now,
but when you first got into the DJ scene, you
grew up listening to all this music that you really loved,
and then all these people became your peers and your friends,
And you know, it's funny. I just interviewed Q Tip,
who does not depress at all, but he agreed to
do a story I was doing for the Only Times
on Culture and I love supreme and what a cool dude.
(28:16):
He's like, I will talk about music all day. Don't
ask me about my own stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's like,
I would love to talk about this, And like, is
there that still sense of wonder of like you're sitting
there talking to music with these people who are your heroes?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Always still?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I mean listen, I still sometimes I be talking to
c Tip about a song and just you know, we've
been friends for so long now, but it's it's impossible
not to think, like how much his his musical tastes
and output has shaped my life. And they're like, you know,
fucking I once exchange an email with Donald Fagan, like
(28:53):
that was probably the greatest thrill of my one A
good that's one of my old time I'm greatest heroes.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
You know, there's these people, and these people have immeasurably
shaped my life and like changed the molecules in my body.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
So yes, it totally freaks me up.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I now I have to ask one more question of this,
but I'm curious because I'm a total cely Dan fanatic.
What's the favorite cely Dan song?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Oh, man, that changes just like all the time. But
I mean sometimes even though it's it's more emblematic of
the first record, like any Major Dude is just like
that one just always gets me choked out because I
think anybody who's just had a friend or lost a
(29:47):
friend to addiction, that one is a really big one.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I think.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Honestly, Asia sometimes like just the harmonic sophistication of that
because because there's all the there's all the hits, and
there's Black Cown, there's Peg, and there's Ricky and there's things,
and I just those will always have a huge hold
over me. But you know, you hear them so much
just you know, think Asia, any major Dude, and there's
(30:16):
not one that I don't love, So it's hard to say.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, I got a think for Doctor Wu Man, that
song just blows my mind.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
So the podcast component is it's called in Service Up
and we talked about giving back and I'm sure that's
very different meaning to you now both you know, as
a dad. But it's interesting because you just mentioned the
addiction and it's funny for some reason, you know, similar
to you, like you know, with music, I've interviewed so
many people and I've recently, I've been thinking a lot
(30:48):
about the interview I did with Phillips Seymour Hoffman, who
to me was the greatest actor of his generation. Brilliant
and you know, we lost to an overdose. And there's
probably an element I've talked to so many people who
have gone through addiction about there's like, you know, definitely
a feeling of like there but for the grace of God.
You know, it's very lucky to come out of it
because so many people don't. And I, like you have
(31:09):
lost so many musician friends to it. So for you
talk about the importance of giving back and you know
what that means to you and how you do that.
And just as a musician, by the way, it's funny
just as a DJ, like you say, just giving people
a night out, whether they're looking to dance or communal
or get laid or do all three of the above.
You know, that's that's part of service as well, because
(31:30):
you're giving people an escape.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yeah. Sorry, is it good question or right?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah? The question is what does it mean to you
to give back and how do you do it?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, I don't consider music may be getting to make
music as a charitable like that's me giving back. I
know that there's people who who will come up to
me and tell me that back to Black got them
through a really hard time in their life, or even
(32:01):
like a song is just like relentlessly optimistic, as Uptown Funk.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Does that for people.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
It would be really ridiculous to me to say, like
I do it as a charitable service. I mean, I
punched myself for saying that, But I do think that
what I'm constantly aware of how fucking lucky I am
is to do the thing that brings me the most
joy and.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Make a living off it and then and that's.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Why I feel like more like the world has been
charitable to me. I mean, I give back in other ways.
I give back to charities and doing work for organizations
and things that need it. But I don't really see
as music as a me making music as an altruistic thing.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Cool. Well, we've only got a couple minute stuff on zoom.
Is there anything that you want to add me and
ask about? I guess my last question would just be,
you know, it's funny. What did you take away from
writing the book? Is again similar to making out when
you get lost in something you don't even know what
the hell it's about. And then it's only when you
look at the end that you kind of take away
the lessons or meaning. So when you read it back
as a finished work, you know, was there anything that
(33:12):
you kind of took away from it that kind of
surprised you.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I think that I probably have a little bit more
hindsight in five or ten years, because it's still so
fresh and I've spent three years writing and it's only
been done for three months.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
But I think that.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
When I look at it back at it, what I
feel the most is this celebration of all these like
unsung characters who are just incredible, like not superstars, but
people who just made New York move at the time
and gave me opportunity to DJ and gave me my shot.
(33:51):
And then I think it celebrates a lot of people
who died and hopefully gives a bit of a snapshot
of a time and that's not very documented, like the
nineties in this little sliver of New York downtown night life.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
And hopefully my daughters won't like read it and be like,
I think it's fucking cringe or whatever the fuck they
were they'll be using in ten fifteen years from now
and they're old enough to read it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Of course they will. That's part of being a parent.
Patty is the oldest woman who ever lived, and she's like,
when I'm home, just mom doing laundry.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Yeah, no, totally cool.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Anything you want to add that we didn't ask you about.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
No, that's great.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
I love to ask one more. That's okay.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
The in service of question I love and hate because
you know, it's such an on the spot thing, but
I think musicians and you are so in service of
the music, and to me, that's in service of humanity.
And like getting to look back with you and read
this book. I'm so excited to tap more into what
(34:59):
that means means, you know, the slowness of really understanding
the music, Like I love music of the past. I
love how you pay homage to where we came from.
This there's this nostalgia, this timeless entity in everything you create.
So the question is now in twenty twenty five, like
(35:19):
what are you excited about with music? And what are
you trepidacious of with where we're going. I mean, I
hate to bring AI in, but I'm very I'm very
interested to hear what you're feeling now in music, Well.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
I think.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
AI is, like, yes, of course, it's scary how well
AI can make something I guess good out of something
that's not talented, maybe somebody who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Make you sound like sort of nefarious, but you know,
in the same way auto tune, which we really help
people who can't really sing or don't have great voices
to make music that we enjoy. So like it's good
to remember it in those terms a little bit. I
have like really mixed feelings about AI, Like I hear
(36:15):
a lot of it and it sounds like garbage, and
it sounds very cold and it doesn't have human soul
in it, but like the technology is incredible.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Like there will be a point at.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Some time when I will fail the Pepsi challenge and
somebody will say, like which one of these is real?
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Which isn't?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But what's exciting about music is there's just always somebody
taking something, even if it's older, and putting it through
a new, fresh lens. And you know, I think of
the things I was influenced by in the nineties and
two thousands, of the things I loved or some of
the music that I was making,
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