July 18, 2025 • 39 mins
On a bonus episode of In Service Of rising jazz star, and dedicated activist, Samora Pinderhughes joins cohosts Steve Baltin and Sage Bava to discuss his music and philanthropy and how they intersect in his world.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Today on in service of We're joined by the incredible
Samora Pindra Hughes, an artist, activist, in storyteller whose music
transcends boundaries and sparks vital conversations and change. Known for
blending soulstering compositions with thought provoking lyrics, Samura uses the
artistry to adjust issues of justice, identity, and healing. We
(00:27):
dive into his creative process, his commitment to social change,
his current projects, and the transformative power of music. Stay
tuned for an inspiring conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You've been very actively touring. Has the response to the
album been so far?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It's been great. It's been great.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You know, we've done only done i guess three shows
so far of all the news music, and yeah, they
were all really beautiful shows. And yeah, it's just like
takes on a whole new dimension to just you know,
do the music live. I was pretty nervous honestly, because
like it's you know, really personal stuff, and I wasn't
(01:18):
sure how people would respond, you know, you get in
your head about it. But people have been really connecting
to it, you know, so I'm happy. And it's also
like fun because it's the music itself is like there's
a lot of spaces in it that we didn't really
do a lot of you know, improvisation and like opening
(01:40):
up on things on the record, but in the live
thing we can kind of like open up different sections
and so it feels super different.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And just like it's been super fun So yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's funny though, because you say that, you know, it's
personal stuff, so you were nervous about it. But I've
always found the more personal record is the more people
relate to it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's very true.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Were there songs down here that were so personal to
you you're surprised by how people responded to them. But
it's so funny because you know, like I look at
the book I did Anthems and talking with Jerl Hall
about Sarah Smile, which was written about his girlfriend, or
Graham Nash about Our House, which is written about Johnny Mitchell,
and people fucking love those songs because they imagine themselves
(02:31):
in their scenarios.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
They want to they want that life.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
There's a lot of pieces that, for different reasons I
was nervous about. I mean, I think the pieces that
are like about you know, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, these
kind of things. Like there was definitely nervousness I had,
I mean number one around like you know, you know,
you're my parents have heard this for a long time.
I wasn't worried about them, but you know, like your
(03:04):
aunts and uncles and that people you grew up with
are going to hear these things. Be like you know,
in your head, you're like, oh, they're going to think
like going through all this different stuff. So I think
that part was a little bit nerve wracking, mostly because
I've always been pretty honest in my music, but my
previous album was a lot more political, and so it
wasn't so like, you know, worrying about what people would
(03:26):
think about me. But I mean, as you said, it
really has been more about people saying like, wow, I
feel really like seen and understood. This is something that
I've been going through, and now I have the different language,
new language for it, which is obviously why I made
the music in the first place, you know. So I
(03:47):
think those pieces are the ones that I was the
most the most worried about. I guess, like pieces like
slow Time and Better and things like that. But people
have been really connecting to it, so I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
How has it been moving through that process now that
you have shared it. Was there anything that surprised you
about that transference of this music and reaction?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm surprised at how I'm
pleasantly surprised at how relevant and good it feels to
perform the music now, because a lot of this music
is from different periods throughout like the last I guess
six years, and so sometimes when you, you know, put
things out there that far back, especially things that come
(04:36):
from like real experiences, you know, I'm in a different
place than goodness than I was when I wrote a
lot of the music, and so I was like, I
don't know how we feel in the live context to
like live inside of some of these pieces, particularly the
ones that are a little bit more like darker. But
it's actually been super cathartic. And I think because I
(04:57):
have a different relationship to those topics with where I'm
at now, and I have more tools to deal with
the things that that I've gone through in my life,
but I still understand them very intimately. I think I'm
able to like get inside the music in new ways
and and really feel like in this context I'm more
(05:20):
I'm playing a service role rather than being like I'm
reliving this every night. It doesn't feel like that. It
feels more like I'm serving the audience by being honest
about these things that I've gone through and giving that
over to the to the performance space. So I've been
pleasantly surprised. I think about that, and I think other
(05:42):
than that, I would say I also really like how
genre non specific this music is and how it feels like,
you know, very intentionally. When I was making the work,
I was trying to get into a lot of different
spaces that interest me musically, and doing that, like being
able to play that music is so fun because everything
(06:04):
is so different, and so I really feel like I
get to just engage in like all my different all
the different dimensions of myself musically through.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Playing this mute.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I love the antidote of being a channel and letting
the music flow through you and being of service of that.
And I love how much the word service comes up
with artists, and you are like the peak example of
utilizing service as the channel for music, and that's what
this whole podcast is. Could you speak a little bit
(06:38):
about that process for you and perhaps where that started,
and how that influenced your early musical voice and really
shaped your identity as a musician. This notion of service.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's great. I had to totally actually forgot that.
That's like the title of the podcast. Yeah, you said,
It's a big thing for me, and it's something that
I hold on to a lot, especially because you know,
there's times in the creation process, as you know, where
it can feel the opposite, like it can feel very
self serving because so much of creating work is you know,
(07:14):
music in particular, but any type of artistic work is
like very solidary, not necessarily even solitary, but it's done
away from the public.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
So a lot of times it can feel like, well.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I'm spending all this time like working this out, you know,
for myself. But that framework helps remind me that even
when it's I'm inside of that segment of the creation process,
I'm still living in service. And I think for me,
I mean, I was very used to that notion growing up,
but for very non musical reasons, just because my parents
(07:47):
they're not musicians, but they're very service oriented. They're you know,
teachers and community organizers, and they basically live like lives
of service, and so I grew up inside of that
even more than I grew up inside music, and I
think that that always permeated how I saw my role musically.
(08:08):
You know, I always like they were my heroes growing up,
So I just wanted to use my tools as an
artist to kind of do the same thing. And then
I think, you know, I will say, like my guiding
light as an artist is always James Baldah.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
He has this.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Collection called The Cross of Redemption, which is like basically
like my personal Bible, and it's a lot of different
writings about arts and music and the word and all
these things. But he talks very often about this concept that,
you know, the kind of trade off of being an artist.
You know, the positive of it is that you receive
(08:46):
this ability to channel truth and to like have that
be your job in life. But the other side of
that is that you really have to understand that your
life in a certain way is a sacrifice and not
in like a dark way. It doesn't mean that you
have to live in a negative or an unhealthy way.
I think that's very not true. But what it means
(09:08):
is that you have to understand that the work you
create is meant for the public and meant for others,
and you don't really have much of a of a
say over to how that happens and in what context
that happens. And you know, you kind of just have
to trust that whatever is coming through is going to
(09:31):
be of use, and then you have to let people
use it, you know. So I really, like I said,
I hold on to that a lot, you know, particularly
when it's difficult to accept that that exchange. I guess
whether it's that you're in that creative thing or or
whether it's that you have put this thing out in
(09:53):
the world and now you kind of have to accept
what people make of.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So it's interesting for you though, I mean, do you
do you pay attention to what people make of it?
Or once it's out there. So many artists, I know,
once it's gone, it's like it's the world's fuck it,
I'm on to the next.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I still pay attention. Yeah, I mean, I think it
matters a lot to me. I've been lucky so far that,
like I think, you know, for a lot of artists
that are in that way, it's a you know, it's
a protective mechanism in terms of like not wanting to
feel negativity from the outsid world and protect that sense
of self that is really important to like be able
(10:49):
to create honestly and purely and not be thinking all
the time about what people would think. And so I
think when I'm inside of the creation process, actually that's
when I try to tune everything out because I don't
want to think, well, what are people going to think
of this?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I just want to make stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
But I think once I put something out, I am
curious about what people think and feel about it, just
because it really means a lot to me if it
is useful, you know, And I will try to like obviously,
you know, tune if I feel negativity coming from somewhere,
I'm going to tune that out just because it's not useful.
I will say, like, I do believe in the place
(11:26):
of critique, and I find a lot of value and critique.
But I only take critique from you know, people that
I really respect, so like, I'm not trying to just
take in whatever wherever. But I do try to leave
myself open for you know, valued opinions and also for
people that are you know, responding saying like this moved me,
(11:49):
Like that mean that keeps me going.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
So I do remain.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So, what have been some of the best responses you've
heard to this album?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, just you know, it's early so far, and so
I haven't you know, been able to see like a
bunch of different responses. But from what I have received,
I think that the best the best things I've like,
you know, taken in is just people really engaging with
the lyrics in a deep way and like saying this
(12:21):
particular set of words, like this particular sentence or this
lyric this made me really think about this in a
new way, or this connected to what I've been going through,
or you know, and people pulling out like different specific
moments because I mean number one, that just really means
that they're listening in.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
A very deep way to the music.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
And also you know it kind of you feel that really,
you know, that real connection. So I think that's been
my favorite is just hearing like what specific lyrics connect
to people the most. And I think, yeah, also just
(13:03):
people saying, you know, I have gone through you know,
feelings of suicide, but like this makes me feel really
you know, like I matter, you know, or like I
have listened to like a song like Forgive Yourself and
I like realize that I need to make that room
for myself to do that, you know, so like people
(13:23):
just really saying like I could use this to like, actually,
you know, move through these difficult times that I'm dealing with.
So that's been the best so far.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I think for sure, I quickly and then I'll let
stage go again.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But I have to ask now, because you know, being
a writer, I geet out on lyrics all the time.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Well, first of all, what's your favorite lyric on the album?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And then second of all, what's just your favorite lyric
from someone else?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a great question, and I like,
I I want to figure out some more deeper ways
to even like talk about specific language that's on that
because I spent so much time on it, you know,
trying to be really intentional, and I just like I
love I love language in that way, like I love
songwriting the art of songwriting, and also I really love
(14:12):
like I study a lot of rappers and I love
word play and different things like that. So I think
probably my favorite sets of lyrics on the album, Uh,
some of them are definitely like the sections where I
really engage in that kind of wordplay. Some of the
more like rap sections where I'm able to actually kind
of engage with the sounding of lyrics and double entendres
(14:35):
and different things like that. So I think I would say,
you know, some of those, and then there's just like
certain lyrics that mean a lot to me, Like I
feel like a mystery to myself has always been something
important to me, and that's in the song Drownd, Like
that's a very like meaningful lyric lyric to me. I
think I'm trying to think, what's the other.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Like number one.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Lyrics on on specific songs for me particularly, but I
mean one that that means a lot to me that
also I feel like has been resonating a lot of
with people is a lyric from Better, which sometimes it's
easier to lose myself than choose myself. I really, you know,
(15:19):
that's like an important one for me. But just generally,
I would say of all the lyrics, like that's probably
my favorite. Better is like my favorite set of lyrics
on the record, because there's a lot of interesting elements,
particularly in that first verse, and and that that song
actually was also kind of patterned in a certain way
(15:42):
or inspired a lot by Needle and the Hey Elliott Smith,
which is just like a very meaningful song to me,
not like I don't luckily I'm non drag addic, but
like that song in the way that he engages with
like shame and drug addiction and stuff like, it's just
so beautifully written and it really inspired me a lot,
(16:04):
just like you know, these these very deep double you know,
very like cutting things where he says like things like
you should be proud that I'm getting good marks like
that's a that's like one of the to me, like
one of the best lyrics ever written, you know what
I mean, And I'm like wow, like that just just
that hits in a certain way. So there's ways in
(16:26):
which I was kind of trying to engage in that way,
not obviously not to say it's that good, but like.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
You know, that whole first verse is better.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Is really me trying to look at how do I
engage with this that this concept around.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
You know, trying to get.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Get a person that loves for you to change and saying,
you know, when I overeat, it's because there's too much
on my plate. Like I that double one is kind
of my version for what I've dealt with because you know,
when I have depression or when I have like difficulty,
I'll just eat too much. It's not as like much
as of a maybe problematic thing as like drug addiction
(17:10):
would be. But a lot of people deal with it
and we don't talk about.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It because it's not what it's really ship.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
So these are the kind of things that I you know,
that's a very long answer for Like my favorite lyrics.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Are, yes, I mean there's so many. Where do they
come from? Like, what is your process of writing like
the origin stories?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I well, I'll say, like in terms of my what
my specific process is with lyrics, it does depend. I
mean usually it's one of two things, which is either
I'll write at the piano and like just like kind
of simultaneously work on the harmonic language and the lyrics.
Or sometimes I'll just write like in a notebook or
(17:57):
on my phone just like just either as a poetry
format or even like to an instrumental or something like that,
because I do find that both of those processes yield
different results for me, and so I think it'll depend
on what kind of material I'm trying to write. And
(18:19):
speaking of settings, you spoke to like how things are
different in different places. But I also like to write
in different settings, Like I will take if I'm stuck
on a song, I'll take it to the museum, or
I will take it to take it on a walk
or something like that, you know, and I'll try to
find something in the surrounding environment that will, you know,
(18:41):
connect in a different way, or I'll you know, just
try to be inspired in different ways.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Like I watch a lot of films.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
I'm very into films, so for me, a lot of
the music is also they're like scenes. They're like film
film scenes. So that'll be like my initial process. And
then I really do try to treat I try to
treat writing lyrics as like a true writer, like a
novelist or something. I have a lot of friends who
(19:08):
are like amazing novelists, so I'm lucky that I get
to talk to them about their process. And like ninety
percent of it is revision, you know. So it's like
you kind of spill out everything in the draft because
you don't undercut your pure kind of just feeling of it.
And so I think in my first drafts of stuff,
(19:30):
you know, I will just write everything that comes to mind,
and I'll have like seven different versions of the same
lyric with like a least little different versions of different things,
and then the revision process will take much longer, Like
I will revise songs twenty thirty times, just like going
over every every word and really being asking the question
(19:50):
with every word, like is there does this word matter?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Is it? Is it right?
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Or because there's something that could work better? And so
I really do try to treat it like, yeah, like
like I'm writing a book basically and just doing like
heavy revision. And I think, you know that that's the
part that I think takes it to the level of
craft to me, you know, the honesty part is really
(20:15):
that first draft, I would say, because that's really where
you're trying to, you know, be as raw as possible.
And then I think the craft comes with the revision.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So that's.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Specifically the process that The ironic thing about that song
is that actually I guess I guess forgive yourself with
the same those are the only songs that I've written
all in one like two hour period, and like it
just came out, So you know, yeah, sometimes it's like
(20:50):
it just it just channels through you and it just
comes out and I don't really know how that happened,
but you know, you know, you're a vessel for something else,
and so those two pieces, yeah, they just came through,
But everything else that I've ever written takes like way
longer than that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And how has it been sharing this music around the world?
How has you know the the universality of people's reaction
and you're feeling in the give and take of performing
because you are just such a mystifying performer and you're
so simple and so giving and what you do, I
(21:44):
feel like you really involve everyone in the show, and
your band really involves everyone, and that's just a part
of your music, which is very very special.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good question also
because yes, since the language is so important, it is
interesting to think about people, you know, engaging with the
music that aren't necessarily that English is in their first language,
and they might be catching a lot, you know, but
maybe not everything. But I think, yeah, it seems like well,
(22:19):
things that I know for sure people connect with and
you connect. You spoke to this a little bit, but
I think people really feel the essence of the work,
both in the sonic you know, tapestry of what we
try to put around lyrics and you know, beauty is
like a really big aesthetic practice for me to really
(22:43):
believe in it. And so I think, you know, trying
to really have people connect with like beauty and emotionality
in the music, which you know, it's only one dimension
of all the possibilities of what music can do, but
I think in my music that's really important and I
think extension they feel also the love that is on stage,
(23:05):
like the love that is between the people that create
the music with me who that's because we're really a
community and I'm very lucky that I've been able to
find those collaborators that it's not just well we're making
a piece together, but like we really are in each
other's lives and you know, we practice a lot of
(23:27):
care for each other. So I think people can feel
that on stage. And like you said, I think the
the intention for me is that even no matter what
the size of the venue is, that people feel like
it's a living room and they feel like they're kind
of invited into almost a private space to engage in
(23:48):
the material together. And yeah, so in that way, I think,
I think the honesty still translates even though no matter
whether people understand the language or not, which that part
I think is a mystery to me because I wouldn't
(24:09):
no like the you know, the material that's happening in
the room that creates that.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
But I think it does translate.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Well.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's funny though for you. I mean, are there people
you saw that have that effect on you? And it
is interesting though, because I feel like you do.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
Pick up on a vibe.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So even if you don't understand the language, you're understanding
someone's meaning their intonation, you know, in the same way
that animals understand whether you're you know, speaking lovingly or
or scolding.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I mean, I'm trying to think about specific there's definitely
specific concerts I can remember seeing, like particularly as a
young person, where I definitely didn't understand the lyrics. Like
there's this a Brazilian artist, Maria Rita. I'm definitely not
anouncing her name right, but she's you know, she's Ellis
Regina's daughter, you know. So then once I also learned
(25:08):
about Elis Regina, it does the same thing. But it's
like she Marie, it is amazing And I remember going
to her show and feeling like all these feelings. I
had no idea what she was saying, you know, and uh,
I mean, I definitely feel that way when I listen
to like Flamenco music or Fouto music, you know, these
(25:30):
kind of different indigenous music practices from these different places
around the world. You know, certainly in my own experience,
in my own spiritual practice like connecting to you know,
y're of a music, EPA music, which is like, that's
part of my practice. So I do understand some of
it because I know some of the language, but not
(25:52):
all of it. But it's very meaningful to me. And
I'm trying to think, oh, I mean, right now, something
I'm deep into which I have no idea what they're
talking about, is Bulgarian choirs, Like I have no idea
what they're saying, but it's like the most like intensely
beautiful emotional stuff ever. So yeah, I mean you you're right,
(26:14):
like you it's the sound does a thing, you know.
And obviously, I mean I came up as a as
a creative, improvised musician, where most of the music that
I was inspired to even start playing through, you know,
was instrumental music.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
They didn't have anything.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
And you know, listening to Herbie and you know, Coltrane
and you know, like month like you know that it
does that thing, you know when so yeah, you know,
the music speaks for sure.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Yeah, I ad no, you go for it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I was gonna say, I'm just gonna ask you one
more podcast question, then let's sage finish it. But I
am curious because one thing we've asked everybody, and it's
interesting for you because I thought it'd be first for
the in service portion because of everything you've done with
prison reform and all of that. We've talked so much
about that over the years. What is your purpose?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
That's a good question, That's a big question.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
You know. I think that my thoughts about my purpose
has evolved over the years, and I think, you know,
I think I have multiple purposes. I think that one
purpose I have, which I think is the purpose.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I have through the through Like I.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Would say the mechanism of songwriting is to kind of
just be a person that's pulling back the layers. So
I think for me, like that's how I see my
purpose as a songwriter. And that can be pulling back
the layers of history or of society, of structural raism
and inequality like you're talking about, you know, speaking to abolition.
(28:02):
It can also be pulling back the layers of you know,
very personal internal things like how we're doing, how I'm
doing on this Venus record. But I think that's the
through line for me when it comes to songwriting, is
for my purpose to be to pull back all the
layers of kind of all the layers that hide the truth, basically,
(28:23):
that hide the most deepest honesty about whatever the subject
matter is. And then I think I would say my
other purpose when it comes to you know, what I
would say is my other service work that's you know,
both inside of the art but also like my role
as the executive and artistic director of the Healing Project.
The organization is to create, sustain and offer community healing tools,
(28:52):
and I think I really believe in that. I think again,
neither of these things are like singular purposes. They are
shared by many people that do them amazingly. But I
think for me, you know, being able to have the
Healing Project as a vessel and a holding space for
community that can come together and engage in accepting vulnerable
(29:14):
and loving space from which to heal, that feels like
a very important purpose of mine. And that's part of
why I did transform the Healing Project from just an
art project into an organization is because I want it
to be something that lasts through and hopefully pass my lifetime,
and that it's not something that's attached just to me
(29:37):
as an artist, but that it's something that is a
home for people to get the healing that they need
and to do it in community with each other, and
you know, like find that space of refuge. I guess
I would say so, I would say those are my
two primary purposes.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Hopefully, maybe someday we will we'll get to a world
that looks more like the one that you paint in yours.
And I love how you speak about music as a
transformative power. And I was curious for you with your
relationship with the music, like carrying it through all of
these different stages. As the world changes, how does your
(30:17):
perception and your perspective on the music as it relates
to the world change as well.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think what's really interesting I guess
about the music is that makes you know the subject
matter definitely changes over time. Because I'm trying to be
as responsive as I can be to life as I'm
living in and into the time period. I really do
believe in that, and I think that as artists we
(30:49):
are historians of the moment in a sense. You know,
if you go back and you are looking, you know,
you go to look about what's up with this old civilization.
You know, most of what you're getting is art that
kind of tells the story of that of whatever that
time period was. So I take that responsibility seriously. I
(31:12):
think though, that the overall approach tends to be the
same because the things that I believe in are the same.
That doesn't mean that I don't challenge myself to you know,
I'm always asking questions of myself of how can I
rise as best as possible to the moment and also
how can I better myself, always as an artist and
(31:34):
as a person. But I do think that the you know,
the ethics, the things that matter the most to me,
you know, tend to be pretty all encompassing, you know,
when it comes to community, practice, integrity, vulnerability, you know, love, honesty.
(31:57):
I mean, these things are kind of they moved, they
moved through and I think also the other reality, there's
ways in which, like five years ago was forever ago,
you know, in terms of the things that we deal with,
and there's also ways in which they're did exact same structures,
you know, and so I think that, you know, when
(32:19):
it comes to something like the fight for abolition, I mean,
that's something that has been happening for you know, before
I was born, you know, started really in the sixties
into the eighties and now and you know, we're making
headway but still have a long way to go. So
I think that, you know, there's definitely a hope that
with some of the subject matter that I deal with,
(32:41):
and you know, like the present industrial complex, I mean,
I obviously wish for a world in which one day
I will not be writing about those issues because we
won you know, but you know, until that is the case,
you know, I'm gonna still be talking about the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, I love the point that you made about how
music dates back to the dawn of time, and so
does these concepts that we speak on, because that is
our humanity and that is both ancient and future.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Definitely, Yeah, And I think, I mean, there's the dimension
that is it being how we make sense of the world,
I think, collectively and individually. And there's also the spiritual dimension,
which has always you know, been part of artistic practice,
which is equally important to me. So I think, you know,
art's always going to be the most important thing to me.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Can you speak a little bit more about how you
utilize your spirituality in your music making and your creative process?
You know, you just do it in a kind of
other worldly way.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Music to me is an extension of the most important
elements of spirituality and even religious practice. I mean, you know,
it involves an incredible amount of ritual everything from having
to practice your instrument to like engaging in whatever practices
(34:15):
you do around live performances.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
These are all rituals.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I think that, you know, anybody that's ever written a
song knows that, as we were talking about with process, it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Does not come from you.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
You know, you might be the chosen channel for this thing,
but there's a lot of mystery that goes into why
you're able to do the thing that you do, you know,
and I've heard many songwriters speak to that. And I
think also, you know, particularly with the live experience, but
just in general, you know, the way that music can
(34:49):
bring community together and bring people together that never met
each other but are in one place at the same
time feeling the same thing around a piece of music.
I mean that is that is spiritual practice to me.
So I think, you know, I mean, I do have
my own specific spiritual practices do I practice Ifi, which
is otherwise known as Cynthodiya, which I you know, started
(35:11):
practicing when I was in Cuba. But it's you're of
a tradition, and that also connects to my lineage and ancestry, which.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Is important to me.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
But I think as far as how I feel it
when I'm doing music, I think it just permeates everything,
and I really just try to honor it as much
as I can from the sense that I remain humble
and I understand that.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The music is.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Of me, but it is not just me, and so
I have to both have the humility of understanding that
it's you know, I'm not some big shot whatever. I
could do this and that and the third, while at
the same time it does mean that I have to
continue to sharpen and refine the tools by which I
can speak, you know. And so you know, it's both
(36:04):
and in the sense that you have to have a
great sense of importance around how you're engaging because it's
very serious work, you know. But at the same time
you remain really with an understanding that you know, you
are just a vessel that has to be you know,
of service in this way. So I find it to be.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Really beautiful, and it also just.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Keeps me grounded. I guess I would say, you know,
it keeps me really grounded, like being inside of that
reality and being engaging.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
With the.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thank you for sharing that, and thank you for all
the work that you do, all the music. It's really
changing the world.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Thank you. That means a lot.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
And you know, it's always really a pleasure and hunted
to talk to you both. And you know, I'm also
definitely happy that Forgive Yourself is finally out so you
could just have it whenever you want, because I remember
that when we played it, you know, I was like
I could send you this version, but because I like
(37:17):
specifically knew that, because I specifically knew that, you know,
it was like, man, for this.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Record session, happy that everybody can happen.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
I'm going to ask you one more. I let you go.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
But it's funny because Forgive Yourself would be like a
perfect example of that. And there are these songs that
are just spiritual to you for whatever the reason. Some
are obviously spiritual, some you know, it's just your interpretation.
For me, culture and my favorite things live version is
very spiritual, but there's no particular reasons the way that
(37:49):
I respond to it. Where a song like Van Morrison
The Mystic as Bob Dylan famously said that song could
only come from God. So that's just spiritual. I think
that everybody. So for you, what are those songs.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
What are the songs of mine that I've written that
feel like that?
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Or for you as a fan those songs?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I would say that's it.
I mean, yeah, obviously, like you said, I mean Love Supreme,
which is that for everybody? Is definitely that For me,
I would say there's a song by Terrence Blanchard called
over There that Herbie's on, which is like, definitely feels
(38:36):
that way for me. I would say sing about me
I'm Dying of Thirst by Kendrick lamar Uh, black is
the color of my True Loves hair and Nina Simone.
I would say those are the those are the main
(38:57):
ones for me immediately. Yeah, save the children Marvin Gaye,
Yeah cool, Well.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I know you got a jump. Is there anything that
you want to add that we didn't talk about?
Speaker 4 (39:10):
No, that's wonderful, you know, that's always The questions are
beautiful and I appreciate the appreciate the conversation.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So let's talk to you against me. You gotta stay
in touch.
Today on in service of We're joined by the incredible
Samora Pindra Hughes, an artist, activist, in storyteller whose music
transcends boundaries and sparks vital conversations and change. Known for
blending soulstering compositions with thought provoking lyrics, Samura uses the
artistry to adjust issues of justice, identity, and healing. We
(00:27):
dive into his creative process, his commitment to social change,
his current projects, and the transformative power of music. Stay
tuned for an inspiring conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You've been very actively touring. Has the response to the
album been so far?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It's been great. It's been great.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You know, we've done only done i guess three shows
so far of all the news music, and yeah, they
were all really beautiful shows. And yeah, it's just like
takes on a whole new dimension to just you know,
do the music live. I was pretty nervous honestly, because
like it's you know, really personal stuff, and I wasn't
(01:18):
sure how people would respond, you know, you get in
your head about it. But people have been really connecting
to it, you know, so I'm happy. And it's also
like fun because it's the music itself is like there's
a lot of spaces in it that we didn't really
do a lot of you know, improvisation and like opening
(01:40):
up on things on the record, but in the live
thing we can kind of like open up different sections
and so it feels super different.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And just like it's been super fun So yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's funny though, because you say that, you know, it's
personal stuff, so you were nervous about it. But I've
always found the more personal record is the more people
relate to it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's very true.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Were there songs down here that were so personal to
you you're surprised by how people responded to them. But
it's so funny because you know, like I look at
the book I did Anthems and talking with Jerl Hall
about Sarah Smile, which was written about his girlfriend, or
Graham Nash about Our House, which is written about Johnny Mitchell,
and people fucking love those songs because they imagine themselves
(02:31):
in their scenarios.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
They want to they want that life.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
There's a lot of pieces that, for different reasons I
was nervous about. I mean, I think the pieces that
are like about you know, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, these
kind of things. Like there was definitely nervousness I had,
I mean number one around like you know, you know,
you're my parents have heard this for a long time.
I wasn't worried about them, but you know, like your
(03:04):
aunts and uncles and that people you grew up with
are going to hear these things. Be like you know,
in your head, you're like, oh, they're going to think
like going through all this different stuff. So I think
that part was a little bit nerve wracking, mostly because
I've always been pretty honest in my music, but my
previous album was a lot more political, and so it
wasn't so like, you know, worrying about what people would
(03:26):
think about me. But I mean, as you said, it
really has been more about people saying like, wow, I
feel really like seen and understood. This is something that
I've been going through, and now I have the different language,
new language for it, which is obviously why I made
the music in the first place, you know. So I
(03:47):
think those pieces are the ones that I was the
most the most worried about. I guess, like pieces like
slow Time and Better and things like that. But people
have been really connecting to it, so I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
How has it been moving through that process now that
you have shared it. Was there anything that surprised you
about that transference of this music and reaction?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm surprised at how I'm
pleasantly surprised at how relevant and good it feels to
perform the music now, because a lot of this music
is from different periods throughout like the last I guess
six years, and so sometimes when you, you know, put
things out there that far back, especially things that come
(04:36):
from like real experiences, you know, I'm in a different
place than goodness than I was when I wrote a
lot of the music, and so I was like, I
don't know how we feel in the live context to
like live inside of some of these pieces, particularly the
ones that are a little bit more like darker. But
it's actually been super cathartic. And I think because I
(04:57):
have a different relationship to those topics with where I'm
at now, and I have more tools to deal with
the things that that I've gone through in my life,
but I still understand them very intimately. I think I'm
able to like get inside the music in new ways
and and really feel like in this context I'm more
(05:20):
I'm playing a service role rather than being like I'm
reliving this every night. It doesn't feel like that. It
feels more like I'm serving the audience by being honest
about these things that I've gone through and giving that
over to the to the performance space. So I've been
pleasantly surprised. I think about that, and I think other
(05:42):
than that, I would say I also really like how
genre non specific this music is and how it feels like,
you know, very intentionally. When I was making the work,
I was trying to get into a lot of different
spaces that interest me musically, and doing that, like being
able to play that music is so fun because everything
(06:04):
is so different, and so I really feel like I
get to just engage in like all my different all
the different dimensions of myself musically through.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Playing this mute.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I love the antidote of being a channel and letting
the music flow through you and being of service of that.
And I love how much the word service comes up
with artists, and you are like the peak example of
utilizing service as the channel for music, and that's what
this whole podcast is. Could you speak a little bit
(06:38):
about that process for you and perhaps where that started,
and how that influenced your early musical voice and really
shaped your identity as a musician. This notion of service.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's great. I had to totally actually forgot that.
That's like the title of the podcast. Yeah, you said,
It's a big thing for me, and it's something that
I hold on to a lot, especially because you know,
there's times in the creation process, as you know, where
it can feel the opposite, like it can feel very
self serving because so much of creating work is you know,
(07:14):
music in particular, but any type of artistic work is
like very solidary, not necessarily even solitary, but it's done
away from the public.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
So a lot of times it can feel like, well.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I'm spending all this time like working this out, you know,
for myself. But that framework helps remind me that even
when it's I'm inside of that segment of the creation process,
I'm still living in service. And I think for me,
I mean, I was very used to that notion growing up,
but for very non musical reasons, just because my parents
(07:47):
they're not musicians, but they're very service oriented. They're you know,
teachers and community organizers, and they basically live like lives
of service, and so I grew up inside of that
even more than I grew up inside music, and I
think that that always permeated how I saw my role musically.
(08:08):
You know, I always like they were my heroes growing up,
So I just wanted to use my tools as an
artist to kind of do the same thing. And then
I think, you know, I will say, like my guiding
light as an artist is always James Baldah.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
He has this.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Collection called The Cross of Redemption, which is like basically
like my personal Bible, and it's a lot of different
writings about arts and music and the word and all
these things. But he talks very often about this concept that,
you know, the kind of trade off of being an artist.
You know, the positive of it is that you receive
(08:46):
this ability to channel truth and to like have that
be your job in life. But the other side of
that is that you really have to understand that your
life in a certain way is a sacrifice and not
in like a dark way. It doesn't mean that you
have to live in a negative or an unhealthy way.
I think that's very not true. But what it means
(09:08):
is that you have to understand that the work you
create is meant for the public and meant for others,
and you don't really have much of a of a
say over to how that happens and in what context
that happens. And you know, you kind of just have
to trust that whatever is coming through is going to
(09:31):
be of use, and then you have to let people
use it, you know. So I really, like I said,
I hold on to that a lot, you know, particularly
when it's difficult to accept that that exchange. I guess
whether it's that you're in that creative thing or or
whether it's that you have put this thing out in
(09:53):
the world and now you kind of have to accept
what people make of.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So it's interesting for you though, I mean, do you
do you pay attention to what people make of it?
Or once it's out there. So many artists, I know,
once it's gone, it's like it's the world's fuck it,
I'm on to the next.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I still pay attention. Yeah, I mean, I think it
matters a lot to me. I've been lucky so far that,
like I think, you know, for a lot of artists
that are in that way, it's a you know, it's
a protective mechanism in terms of like not wanting to
feel negativity from the outsid world and protect that sense
of self that is really important to like be able
(10:49):
to create honestly and purely and not be thinking all
the time about what people would think. And so I
think when I'm inside of the creation process, actually that's
when I try to tune everything out because I don't
want to think, well, what are people going to think
of this?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I just want to make stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
But I think once I put something out, I am
curious about what people think and feel about it, just
because it really means a lot to me if it
is useful, you know, And I will try to like obviously,
you know, tune if I feel negativity coming from somewhere,
I'm going to tune that out just because it's not useful.
I will say, like, I do believe in the place
(11:26):
of critique, and I find a lot of value and critique.
But I only take critique from you know, people that
I really respect, so like, I'm not trying to just
take in whatever wherever. But I do try to leave
myself open for you know, valued opinions and also for
people that are you know, responding saying like this moved me,
(11:49):
Like that mean that keeps me going.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
So I do remain.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So, what have been some of the best responses you've
heard to this album?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, just you know, it's early so far, and so
I haven't you know, been able to see like a
bunch of different responses. But from what I have received,
I think that the best the best things I've like,
you know, taken in is just people really engaging with
the lyrics in a deep way and like saying this
(12:21):
particular set of words, like this particular sentence or this
lyric this made me really think about this in a
new way, or this connected to what I've been going through,
or you know, and people pulling out like different specific
moments because I mean number one, that just really means
that they're listening in.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
A very deep way to the music.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
And also you know it kind of you feel that really,
you know, that real connection. So I think that's been
my favorite is just hearing like what specific lyrics connect
to people the most. And I think, yeah, also just
(13:03):
people saying, you know, I have gone through you know,
feelings of suicide, but like this makes me feel really
you know, like I matter, you know, or like I
have listened to like a song like Forgive Yourself and
I like realize that I need to make that room
for myself to do that, you know, so like people
(13:23):
just really saying like I could use this to like, actually,
you know, move through these difficult times that I'm dealing with.
So that's been the best so far.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I think for sure, I quickly and then I'll let
stage go again.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But I have to ask now, because you know, being
a writer, I geet out on lyrics all the time.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Well, first of all, what's your favorite lyric on the album?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And then second of all, what's just your favorite lyric
from someone else?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a great question, and I like,
I I want to figure out some more deeper ways
to even like talk about specific language that's on that
because I spent so much time on it, you know,
trying to be really intentional, and I just like I
love I love language in that way, like I love
songwriting the art of songwriting, and also I really love
(14:12):
like I study a lot of rappers and I love
word play and different things like that. So I think
probably my favorite sets of lyrics on the album, Uh,
some of them are definitely like the sections where I
really engage in that kind of wordplay. Some of the
more like rap sections where I'm able to actually kind
of engage with the sounding of lyrics and double entendres
(14:35):
and different things like that. So I think I would say,
you know, some of those, and then there's just like
certain lyrics that mean a lot to me, Like I
feel like a mystery to myself has always been something
important to me, and that's in the song Drownd, Like
that's a very like meaningful lyric lyric to me. I
think I'm trying to think, what's the other.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Like number one.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Lyrics on on specific songs for me particularly, but I
mean one that that means a lot to me that
also I feel like has been resonating a lot of
with people is a lyric from Better, which sometimes it's
easier to lose myself than choose myself. I really, you know,
(15:19):
that's like an important one for me. But just generally,
I would say of all the lyrics, like that's probably
my favorite. Better is like my favorite set of lyrics
on the record, because there's a lot of interesting elements,
particularly in that first verse, and and that that song
actually was also kind of patterned in a certain way
(15:42):
or inspired a lot by Needle and the Hey Elliott Smith,
which is just like a very meaningful song to me,
not like I don't luckily I'm non drag addic, but
like that song in the way that he engages with
like shame and drug addiction and stuff like, it's just
so beautifully written and it really inspired me a lot,
(16:04):
just like you know, these these very deep double you know,
very like cutting things where he says like things like
you should be proud that I'm getting good marks like
that's a that's like one of the to me, like
one of the best lyrics ever written, you know what
I mean, And I'm like wow, like that just just
that hits in a certain way. So there's ways in
(16:26):
which I was kind of trying to engage in that way,
not obviously not to say it's that good, but like.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
You know, that whole first verse is better.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Is really me trying to look at how do I
engage with this that this concept around.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
You know, trying to get.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Get a person that loves for you to change and saying,
you know, when I overeat, it's because there's too much
on my plate. Like I that double one is kind
of my version for what I've dealt with because you know,
when I have depression or when I have like difficulty,
I'll just eat too much. It's not as like much
as of a maybe problematic thing as like drug addiction
(17:10):
would be. But a lot of people deal with it
and we don't talk about.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It because it's not what it's really ship.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
So these are the kind of things that I you know,
that's a very long answer for Like my favorite lyrics.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Are, yes, I mean there's so many. Where do they
come from? Like, what is your process of writing like
the origin stories?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I well, I'll say, like in terms of my what
my specific process is with lyrics, it does depend. I
mean usually it's one of two things, which is either
I'll write at the piano and like just like kind
of simultaneously work on the harmonic language and the lyrics.
Or sometimes I'll just write like in a notebook or
(17:57):
on my phone just like just either as a poetry
format or even like to an instrumental or something like that,
because I do find that both of those processes yield
different results for me, and so I think it'll depend
on what kind of material I'm trying to write. And
(18:19):
speaking of settings, you spoke to like how things are
different in different places. But I also like to write
in different settings, Like I will take if I'm stuck
on a song, I'll take it to the museum, or
I will take it to take it on a walk
or something like that, you know, and I'll try to
find something in the surrounding environment that will, you know,
(18:41):
connect in a different way, or I'll you know, just
try to be inspired in different ways.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Like I watch a lot of films.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
I'm very into films, so for me, a lot of
the music is also they're like scenes. They're like film
film scenes. So that'll be like my initial process. And
then I really do try to treat I try to
treat writing lyrics as like a true writer, like a
novelist or something. I have a lot of friends who
(19:08):
are like amazing novelists, so I'm lucky that I get
to talk to them about their process. And like ninety
percent of it is revision, you know. So it's like
you kind of spill out everything in the draft because
you don't undercut your pure kind of just feeling of it.
And so I think in my first drafts of stuff,
(19:30):
you know, I will just write everything that comes to mind,
and I'll have like seven different versions of the same
lyric with like a least little different versions of different things,
and then the revision process will take much longer, Like
I will revise songs twenty thirty times, just like going
over every every word and really being asking the question
(19:50):
with every word, like is there does this word matter?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Is it? Is it right?
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Or because there's something that could work better? And so
I really do try to treat it like, yeah, like
like I'm writing a book basically and just doing like
heavy revision. And I think, you know that that's the
part that I think takes it to the level of
craft to me, you know, the honesty part is really
(20:15):
that first draft, I would say, because that's really where
you're trying to, you know, be as raw as possible.
And then I think the craft comes with the revision.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So that's.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Specifically the process that The ironic thing about that song
is that actually I guess I guess forgive yourself with
the same those are the only songs that I've written
all in one like two hour period, and like it
just came out, So you know, yeah, sometimes it's like
(20:50):
it just it just channels through you and it just
comes out and I don't really know how that happened,
but you know, you know, you're a vessel for something else,
and so those two pieces, yeah, they just came through,
But everything else that I've ever written takes like way
longer than that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And how has it been sharing this music around the world?
How has you know the the universality of people's reaction
and you're feeling in the give and take of performing
because you are just such a mystifying performer and you're
so simple and so giving and what you do, I
(21:44):
feel like you really involve everyone in the show, and
your band really involves everyone, and that's just a part
of your music, which is very very special.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good question also
because yes, since the language is so important, it is
interesting to think about people, you know, engaging with the
music that aren't necessarily that English is in their first language,
and they might be catching a lot, you know, but
maybe not everything. But I think, yeah, it seems like well,
(22:19):
things that I know for sure people connect with and
you connect. You spoke to this a little bit, but
I think people really feel the essence of the work,
both in the sonic you know, tapestry of what we
try to put around lyrics and you know, beauty is
like a really big aesthetic practice for me to really
(22:43):
believe in it. And so I think, you know, trying
to really have people connect with like beauty and emotionality
in the music, which you know, it's only one dimension
of all the possibilities of what music can do, but
I think in my music that's really important and I
think extension they feel also the love that is on stage,
(23:05):
like the love that is between the people that create
the music with me who that's because we're really a
community and I'm very lucky that I've been able to
find those collaborators that it's not just well we're making
a piece together, but like we really are in each
other's lives and you know, we practice a lot of
(23:27):
care for each other. So I think people can feel
that on stage. And like you said, I think the
the intention for me is that even no matter what
the size of the venue is, that people feel like
it's a living room and they feel like they're kind
of invited into almost a private space to engage in
(23:48):
the material together. And yeah, so in that way, I think,
I think the honesty still translates even though no matter
whether people understand the language or not, which that part
I think is a mystery to me because I wouldn't
(24:09):
no like the you know, the material that's happening in
the room that creates that.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
But I think it does translate.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Well.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's funny though for you. I mean, are there people
you saw that have that effect on you? And it
is interesting though, because I feel like you do.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
Pick up on a vibe.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So even if you don't understand the language, you're understanding
someone's meaning their intonation, you know, in the same way
that animals understand whether you're you know, speaking lovingly or
or scolding.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I mean, I'm trying to think about specific there's definitely
specific concerts I can remember seeing, like particularly as a
young person, where I definitely didn't understand the lyrics. Like
there's this a Brazilian artist, Maria Rita. I'm definitely not
anouncing her name right, but she's you know, she's Ellis
Regina's daughter, you know. So then once I also learned
(25:08):
about Elis Regina, it does the same thing. But it's
like she Marie, it is amazing And I remember going
to her show and feeling like all these feelings. I
had no idea what she was saying, you know, and uh,
I mean, I definitely feel that way when I listen
to like Flamenco music or Fouto music, you know, these
(25:30):
kind of different indigenous music practices from these different places
around the world. You know, certainly in my own experience,
in my own spiritual practice like connecting to you know,
y're of a music, EPA music, which is like, that's
part of my practice. So I do understand some of
it because I know some of the language, but not
(25:52):
all of it. But it's very meaningful to me. And
I'm trying to think, oh, I mean, right now, something
I'm deep into which I have no idea what they're
talking about, is Bulgarian choirs, Like I have no idea
what they're saying, but it's like the most like intensely
beautiful emotional stuff ever. So yeah, I mean you you're right,
(26:14):
like you it's the sound does a thing, you know.
And obviously, I mean I came up as a as
a creative, improvised musician, where most of the music that
I was inspired to even start playing through, you know,
was instrumental music.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
They didn't have anything.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
And you know, listening to Herbie and you know, Coltrane
and you know, like month like you know that it
does that thing, you know when so yeah, you know,
the music speaks for sure.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Yeah, I ad no, you go for it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I was gonna say, I'm just gonna ask you one
more podcast question, then let's sage finish it. But I
am curious because one thing we've asked everybody, and it's
interesting for you because I thought it'd be first for
the in service portion because of everything you've done with
prison reform and all of that. We've talked so much
about that over the years. What is your purpose?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
That's a good question, That's a big question.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
You know. I think that my thoughts about my purpose
has evolved over the years, and I think, you know,
I think I have multiple purposes. I think that one
purpose I have, which I think is the purpose.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I have through the through Like I.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Would say the mechanism of songwriting is to kind of
just be a person that's pulling back the layers. So
I think for me, like that's how I see my
purpose as a songwriter. And that can be pulling back
the layers of history or of society, of structural raism
and inequality like you're talking about, you know, speaking to abolition.
(28:02):
It can also be pulling back the layers of you know,
very personal internal things like how we're doing, how I'm
doing on this Venus record. But I think that's the
through line for me when it comes to songwriting, is
for my purpose to be to pull back all the
layers of kind of all the layers that hide the truth, basically,
(28:23):
that hide the most deepest honesty about whatever the subject
matter is. And then I think I would say my
other purpose when it comes to you know, what I
would say is my other service work that's you know,
both inside of the art but also like my role
as the executive and artistic director of the Healing Project.
The organization is to create, sustain and offer community healing tools,
(28:52):
and I think I really believe in that. I think again,
neither of these things are like singular purposes. They are
shared by many people that do them amazingly. But I
think for me, you know, being able to have the
Healing Project as a vessel and a holding space for
community that can come together and engage in accepting vulnerable
(29:14):
and loving space from which to heal, that feels like
a very important purpose of mine. And that's part of
why I did transform the Healing Project from just an
art project into an organization is because I want it
to be something that lasts through and hopefully pass my lifetime,
and that it's not something that's attached just to me
(29:37):
as an artist, but that it's something that is a
home for people to get the healing that they need
and to do it in community with each other, and
you know, like find that space of refuge. I guess
I would say so, I would say those are my
two primary purposes.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Hopefully, maybe someday we will we'll get to a world
that looks more like the one that you paint in yours.
And I love how you speak about music as a
transformative power. And I was curious for you with your
relationship with the music, like carrying it through all of
these different stages. As the world changes, how does your
(30:17):
perception and your perspective on the music as it relates
to the world change as well.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think what's really interesting I guess
about the music is that makes you know the subject
matter definitely changes over time. Because I'm trying to be
as responsive as I can be to life as I'm
living in and into the time period. I really do
believe in that, and I think that as artists we
(30:49):
are historians of the moment in a sense. You know,
if you go back and you are looking, you know,
you go to look about what's up with this old civilization.
You know, most of what you're getting is art that
kind of tells the story of that of whatever that
time period was. So I take that responsibility seriously. I
(31:12):
think though, that the overall approach tends to be the
same because the things that I believe in are the same.
That doesn't mean that I don't challenge myself to you know,
I'm always asking questions of myself of how can I
rise as best as possible to the moment and also
how can I better myself, always as an artist and
(31:34):
as a person. But I do think that the you know,
the ethics, the things that matter the most to me,
you know, tend to be pretty all encompassing, you know,
when it comes to community, practice, integrity, vulnerability, you know, love, honesty.
(31:57):
I mean, these things are kind of they moved, they
moved through and I think also the other reality, there's
ways in which, like five years ago was forever ago,
you know, in terms of the things that we deal with,
and there's also ways in which they're did exact same structures,
you know, and so I think that, you know, when
(32:19):
it comes to something like the fight for abolition, I mean,
that's something that has been happening for you know, before
I was born, you know, started really in the sixties
into the eighties and now and you know, we're making
headway but still have a long way to go. So
I think that, you know, there's definitely a hope that
with some of the subject matter that I deal with,
(32:41):
and you know, like the present industrial complex, I mean,
I obviously wish for a world in which one day
I will not be writing about those issues because we
won you know, but you know, until that is the case,
you know, I'm gonna still be talking about the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, I love the point that you made about how
music dates back to the dawn of time, and so
does these concepts that we speak on, because that is
our humanity and that is both ancient and future.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Definitely, Yeah, And I think, I mean, there's the dimension
that is it being how we make sense of the world,
I think, collectively and individually. And there's also the spiritual dimension,
which has always you know, been part of artistic practice,
which is equally important to me. So I think, you know,
art's always going to be the most important thing to me.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Can you speak a little bit more about how you
utilize your spirituality in your music making and your creative process?
You know, you just do it in a kind of
other worldly way.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Music to me is an extension of the most important
elements of spirituality and even religious practice. I mean, you know,
it involves an incredible amount of ritual everything from having
to practice your instrument to like engaging in whatever practices
(34:15):
you do around live performances.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
These are all rituals.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I think that, you know, anybody that's ever written a
song knows that, as we were talking about with process, it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Does not come from you.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
You know, you might be the chosen channel for this thing,
but there's a lot of mystery that goes into why
you're able to do the thing that you do, you know,
and I've heard many songwriters speak to that. And I
think also, you know, particularly with the live experience, but
just in general, you know, the way that music can
(34:49):
bring community together and bring people together that never met
each other but are in one place at the same
time feeling the same thing around a piece of music.
I mean that is that is spiritual practice to me.
So I think, you know, I mean, I do have
my own specific spiritual practices do I practice Ifi, which
is otherwise known as Cynthodiya, which I you know, started
(35:11):
practicing when I was in Cuba. But it's you're of
a tradition, and that also connects to my lineage and ancestry, which.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Is important to me.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
But I think as far as how I feel it
when I'm doing music, I think it just permeates everything,
and I really just try to honor it as much
as I can from the sense that I remain humble
and I understand that.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The music is.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Of me, but it is not just me, and so
I have to both have the humility of understanding that
it's you know, I'm not some big shot whatever. I
could do this and that and the third, while at
the same time it does mean that I have to
continue to sharpen and refine the tools by which I
can speak, you know. And so you know, it's both
(36:04):
and in the sense that you have to have a
great sense of importance around how you're engaging because it's
very serious work, you know. But at the same time
you remain really with an understanding that you know, you
are just a vessel that has to be you know,
of service in this way. So I find it to be.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Really beautiful, and it also just.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Keeps me grounded. I guess I would say, you know,
it keeps me really grounded, like being inside of that
reality and being engaging.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
With the.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thank you for sharing that, and thank you for all
the work that you do, all the music. It's really
changing the world.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Thank you. That means a lot.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
And you know, it's always really a pleasure and hunted
to talk to you both. And you know, I'm also
definitely happy that Forgive Yourself is finally out so you
could just have it whenever you want, because I remember
that when we played it, you know, I was like
I could send you this version, but because I like
(37:17):
specifically knew that, because I specifically knew that, you know,
it was like, man, for this.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Record session, happy that everybody can happen.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
I'm going to ask you one more. I let you go.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
But it's funny because Forgive Yourself would be like a
perfect example of that. And there are these songs that
are just spiritual to you for whatever the reason. Some
are obviously spiritual, some you know, it's just your interpretation.
For me, culture and my favorite things live version is
very spiritual, but there's no particular reasons the way that
(37:49):
I respond to it. Where a song like Van Morrison
The Mystic as Bob Dylan famously said that song could
only come from God. So that's just spiritual. I think
that everybody. So for you, what are those songs.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
What are the songs of mine that I've written that
feel like that?
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Or for you as a fan those songs?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I would say that's it.
I mean, yeah, obviously, like you said, I mean Love Supreme,
which is that for everybody? Is definitely that For me,
I would say there's a song by Terrence Blanchard called
over There that Herbie's on, which is like, definitely feels
(38:36):
that way for me. I would say sing about me
I'm Dying of Thirst by Kendrick lamar Uh, black is
the color of my True Loves hair and Nina Simone.
I would say those are the those are the main
(38:57):
ones for me immediately. Yeah, save the children Marvin Gaye,
Yeah cool, Well.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I know you got a jump. Is there anything that
you want to add that we didn't talk about?
Speaker 4 (39:10):
No, that's wonderful, you know, that's always The questions are
beautiful and I appreciate the appreciate the conversation.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So let's talk to you against me. You gotta stay
in touch.
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